October 30, 2013

Wednesday 131030

Rest Day

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Worldwide Handstands 7


"Roids All the Rage?" by Mike Warkentin, CrossFit Journal article [pdf]


Doping in Sports: A Pound of Cure with former World Anti-Doping Agency President, Dick Pound, CrossFit Journal video [ipod] [mov] [HD mov]

Posted by Pukie at October 30, 2013 5:00 PM
Comments

No sound on the video clip.

Comment #1 - Posted by: 30/M/5'11"/185 at October 29, 2013 5:25 PM

If CrossFit thinks their sport is clean they are mistaken. Posting a video like this does not project an organization that doesn't stand for clean sport, it shows that by announcing drug tests people are getting around it. Look at some athletes from 2 years ago, then today. It is obvious certain athletes are doping. If the games are to be legitimate, there needs to be year round randomized testing of the known and big name athletes.

Comment #2 - Posted by: steve at October 29, 2013 7:21 PM

I'm so tired of this. Let them all use whatever they want. Ever notice how there ISN'T an epidemic of athletes dropping dead from steroid use? Or gym rats, for that matter- nobody's dying, nobody's having serious problems. And believe me, it's everywhere. There is no shortage of PED use, but there is certainly a shortage of epidemics surrounding it.

Why we draw the line there, and not at creatine, prohormones (or do we draw it there now? I can't keep track), vitamins, or weight training more than twice a week..? I don't know. Prove to me it's dangerous. Oh wait, nobody can.

We haven't been "natural" since we invented this thing called a farm, so let's get over it already.

And here's a challenge question for the CFers out there who will rail against me on this- if yours is *truly* a pursuit of elite fitness... Why limit yourself by not using?

Comment #3 - Posted by: thatguy at October 29, 2013 7:29 PM

#2,Steve,

What specifically would be required to convince you that the Games are "legitimate." What level of testing? "Big name athletes" only or everyone?

Comment #4 - Posted by: Hari at October 29, 2013 7:42 PM

There needs to be random tests done for Games level athletes. We need to protect the integrity of the sport. Individuals have already been busted, and the use of PEDs is just going to rise as the popularity of the sport does.

Comment #5 - Posted by: Korey at October 29, 2013 7:44 PM

We know nothing about use or effects. Given that the effective PEDs are generally illegal, there has been no real research conducted to determine safety, use levels that support enhancement, etc. Testing is fine, but does not guarantee cleanliness. I feel that if governing bodies (sports and national/international) are serious about addressing these issues they should allow extensive research to be conducted. Anecdotal evidence from gyms and locker rooms will only perpetuate the mystery and misinformation about PED use.

Comment #6 - Posted by: JWM (34/M/6'4"/195) at October 29, 2013 8:06 PM

thanks hq for posting this interview. if this is what we stand for and this is what we don't do then by all means test at all possible levels. all possible levels is probably limited by what is affordable at this stage of crossfit's development. i think hq is doing the best that can be done right now. more extensive testing may come later.

#2 steve - you seem to really not know what steroid use looks like. the top 10 games finishers from 2 years ago are pretty much the same this year. all about the same size as they were then. every one of those podium finishers were tested.

Comment #7 - Posted by: ken c at October 29, 2013 8:08 PM

Pound is a bit of a hound in my opinion. I get what he's trying to do and I applaud him on it. I really hate however, how he is trying to make every sport to conform to his ideals. Some people don't want to test like other sports. Let it happen, we know that say, Dimitry Klokov is on gear and our boy Kendrick Ferris is not. At the end of the night, the ones taking the gear know that if they weren't on it, they'd get beat by someone who worked just a little harder than they did.

Comment #8 - Posted by: Fitz at October 29, 2013 8:12 PM

People who complain about steroids have no idea how they work. They don't let you win medals or push harder than anybody else. You still have to work your tail off to be successful.

@Fitz, you are wrong. Steroids and PEDs don't eliminate the need to work hard.

PEDs don't allow you to see a fastball any better than the next guy. Talent and hard work allow you to see the ball.

Comment #9 - Posted by: Gavin at October 29, 2013 8:17 PM

It would be naive to think CrossFit is free from the use of PED's.

Comment #10 - Posted by: Ron Gellis at October 29, 2013 9:05 PM

I heard the sauce screws up your erections. That said, I will probably start doing PEDs when I'm too old to get a good one anymore anyway. Old man that can still lift heavy. Sign me up

Comment #11 - Posted by: Ballzagna at October 29, 2013 9:13 PM

Ken C --- PED use does not mean increased size, it does mean increased recovery and work output IE: lance armstrong.. (Sam Briggs and Dan Bailey are much larger then they were 2 years ago if you want to use that argument) They were all tested but they knew when they would be tested. Therefore they can cycle or use accordingly

Hari -- You couldnt test everyone since there are over 100,000 people that compete and could potentially go to the games. Therefore top athletes randomly tested throughout the year would suffice in convincing me. As soon as you mention when a test is IE: after regionals and the games -- athletes then know how to get around it.

Glassman mentioned himself in my level 1 in 2006 that all sports have athletes that use; especially when money is involved. It would be naive of him to assume "his" athletes don't. But then again admitting that would look negatively against his workout. Because right now his workout is marketed as making you the fittest on earth.

Comment #12 - Posted by: steve at October 29, 2013 9:50 PM

I wonder what the salary of the "World Anti-Doping President" comes to every year. I wonder how hard somebody like that would work to make it sound like he needed a job still. Like "thatguy" said early in the thread, I don't see much of an epidemic so why are we spending so much money to keep everybody safe from themselves?

Just curious.

Comment #13 - Posted by: Brhino at October 29, 2013 10:10 PM

http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html

Comment #14 - Posted by: Samo at October 29, 2013 10:54 PM

Doping is a short cut, plain and simple. If you feel you need to dope in my opinion you are saying I want results but I dont want to do the work. Todays kids are all about that mentality which is sad to me as a coach. Laziness is an epidemic that is rapidly becoming the norm, and I agree with him it needs to be stopped. If you choose to use that is up to you but I personally could not go through a day knowing that 1 much less any more of my awards were due to doping. I didnt do it, that was the dope. Without them I lose so they won not me, that would kill me inside. I cannot begin to understand the person that is ok with that in their head. Weak minded, lazy, cheaters in my book.

Comment #15 - Posted by: Matthew Francis at October 30, 2013 3:47 AM

#12, Steve,

And suppose you were absolutely serious about making this happen. Who might you hire to head the program?

Comment #16 - Posted by: Hari at October 30, 2013 5:42 AM

@Gavin -- nobody's saying PEDs are a substitute for talent or hard work. But they do permit faster and better recovery, and depending on what's being used they can also help increase strength, lean body mass, and endurance. Talent and hard work are a given at the top levels of any sport, but PEDs continue to be an issue because they work.

Comment #17 - Posted by: John at October 30, 2013 5:59 AM

Good video and story. I enjoyed them and like the fact that Crossfit is talking about this.

Comment #18 - Posted by: Chris at October 30, 2013 6:17 AM

#15 I agree completely, as a younger person who is enthusiastic about this sport it makes me wonder if the little dreams in the back of my head to maybe make it to the next level are just a complete waste of time because I will never use PEDs. I feel like a majority of my generation doesn't value the hard work it takes to become great naturally. If I ever do make it will because I worked my tail off without PEDs, and if that means I have to out work someone else's roids then I guess I'll just have to work that much harder.

Comment #19 - Posted by: J.R. at October 30, 2013 6:47 AM

steve - armstrong's scandal was about blood doping (increasing red cell counts and such), not steroids. it's just that you stated that its "obvious" that doping is going on based on the differences between the games athletes today and 2 years ago. i just don't see that at all.

anyhoo, i applaud hq's testing thus far and hope that it continues to improve.

Comment #20 - Posted by: ken c at October 30, 2013 7:19 AM

How about two leagues or two competitions? One for those who choose to use and one for those who choose not to? would be interesting to compare the results.

Comment #21 - Posted by: Carl at October 30, 2013 8:00 AM

Dick Pound couldn't bring down Lance... and some people think were in on all of it. Interview Travis Tygart!

Comment #22 - Posted by: Skyler at October 30, 2013 8:47 AM

Marty Cej's interview w/ Dick Pound was excellent--no bombast, just measured, and insightful questions and discussion.

Kudos to HQ for posting this and sparking the discussion w/in the CF community. CF is a wonderful program (and community), and I do it b/c its the best fitness program out there; I wouldn't stop doing CF just b/c some (or even if many) dope. But I wouldn't watch the Games if I thought the top athletes were doping.

Comment #23 - Posted by: Jim R./51/5'8"/160 at October 30, 2013 8:52 AM

@Gavin I'm well aware that regardless of whether you'er taking PED's, HGH, Steroids, or whatever you decide to take, when you decided to take something illegal to boost your performance, you decided that you couldn't get to the place you wanted without them. Is and was Lance Armstrong one talented endurance athlete? Sure heck he was. Are most of the Russian Weightlifting team talented, yep they're some of the best in the world. What they all have in common though is at some point they thought, "I can't get to where I want to be unless I take_________. I'm sure if you ask a guy like Kendrick,Derrick Johnson, Chad Vaughn, the use of PED's probably ticks them off to no end because their hard work does't get looked at. Lu Xiaojun from China had a total of 380 kilos at Worlds. Kendrick Ferris 372 kilos at World Univeristys. Lu is 77 kilos. Ferris 94. Ferris is one of the hardest working weightlifters in the history of the USAW but no matter how hard he works, Lu will always out lift him because of PED's.

Comment #24 - Posted by: Fitz at October 30, 2013 8:55 AM

Couldn't rest today for some reason!

20rnds - 33:18
25M Freestyle
25M breast
5 pullouts

Grace #115 - 4:18

Comment #25 - Posted by: Will at October 30, 2013 8:56 AM

early early short wod with kid @ globo

trx circuit, 3 rft of 15 reps each press, row, glute raise - 4 mins kid, 5 mins me

db farmers carry ~80 yards: 25# db's kid, 50# db's me

tabata russian twists, 16# medball me, 12# medball kid -- 20 score me, 185 total kid

Comment #26 - Posted by: matt h 51 183# 3.9.11 at October 30, 2013 9:06 AM

Yay, rest. Still reached my target heart rate reading YET ANOTHER slew of complaints!

Comment #27 - Posted by: AlbatrossD at October 30, 2013 9:26 AM

multi-vitamins, fish oil, and a good protein drink are enough for me, but I don't exercise to compete.

I don't believe the regulators could successfully test at a junior level, which will give the brave people willing to fork over the cash for steroids an advantage. There is always going to be people slipping by (i.e. Lance Armstrong), and as mentioned before, on what product would we draw the line??

I believe testing in the highest level of competition in and around events is a good enough. There should some effort made to keep a level playing field for those not willing to have their balls shrink, or grow a mustache (females)..

Comment #28 - Posted by: Silas (M/28/6'/180) at October 30, 2013 10:02 AM

Still working off-cycle... made up WOD 131028-Monday - "Morrison"; results posted there.

Comment #29 - Posted by: fargingbastige (M/46/6'0"/195) CrossFitter since 1 May 2012 at October 30, 2013 10:42 AM

Who ever is in charge of this blog, I am wondering why my previous comments have not been posted?

Comment #30 - Posted by: DM at October 30, 2013 10:50 AM

DM, they are caught in the automated spam filter. Most of the time this will be rectified by a human...

Comment #31 - Posted by: bingo at October 30, 2013 12:17 PM

Hari

Give me unlimited miles on Southwest Airlines some dipsticks and a couple cups and I'll fly around and test people

Haha. Just kidding, I don't assume to know who would be best to do the testing I just think for crossfit to be an honest and legitimate sport they should do random testing. I don't know who is using or to what extent but it would benefit everyone to make sure the sport is as clean as possible

Comment #32 - Posted by: Steve at October 30, 2013 12:54 PM

Completely agree with Jim R.

Comment #33 - Posted by: Roger in Phx at October 30, 2013 1:05 PM

What an unfortunate name for that guy.....

Comment #34 - Posted by: anon at October 30, 2013 1:14 PM

Interesting discussion.

Anyway, ran 4 miles this morning. Legs felt like bricks.

Comment #35 - Posted by: Glorybelle (F/44/5'5/135) at October 30, 2013 1:27 PM

Hold the open many months (12?) before the games. Make the testing window huge.

Comment #36 - Posted by: Gavin Carmody at October 30, 2013 1:58 PM

Bingo, I think they screen and discard the things they do not want to hear

Comment #37 - Posted by: DM at October 30, 2013 2:01 PM

@#3 Well said!

Comment #38 - Posted by: Mithra at October 30, 2013 2:18 PM

DM,

I've been here for 8 years. I write a long post every Sunday AM. It gets caught in the filter every Sunday AM. CF and folks at HQ are remarkably tolerant of opposing views, and even views that are down right hostile. Unless you are taking a personal run at an individual the likelihood is that you simply used some word that gets filtered.

Comment #39 - Posted by: bingo at October 30, 2013 7:07 PM

@Gavin
Actually PEDs DO help you see the fastball better than the next guy (HGH specifically).

@thatguy
"modified" vs. "stock" makes for a good argument. Moral dilemma: teenage division.

Comment #40 - Posted by: jt at October 31, 2013 10:01 AM
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