A dropped rep is a failed rep. If you pick it up from the ground, you need to return it to the ground. Thoughts?

Isn't dropping an object returning it to the ground?

What lift do you need to control it back to the ground?

I think returning an object to the ground in a controlled manor is a valid functional movement and should not be routinely neglected.

I find it frustrating that people with financial intrests can publish supposedly factual information in articles published in The Journal without referencing scientific data. An example of this can be found in the journal on march 11th this year.

This is not conducive to evidence based fitness.

I would like to know what is HQ's opinion on this if they have one and more importantly what does the community think?

I think if you can do the concentric portion of a lift, you can do the eccentric portion with much more weight.

Lowering something slowly to the ground only reduces your ability to do more concentric work. If you can do the concentric, it will make you stronger than doing the eccentric.

I think that's true for most lifts.

Nice pick with Mendelssohn -- this is one of my favorite pieces of music.

All of this POSE stuff seems kind of silly to me. I've seen the fastest marathoners run, and I've seen the fastest sprinters run, neither of them are running POSE perfectly.

Isn't crossfit evidence-based?

Yes, forefoot running is very clearly better for you, and you can run much faster, but there is a lot of stuff added onto that with all of this POSE nonesense.

I think when people take off their shoes, they naturally improve their running form. When people run faster, they naturally improve their running form. I don't think POSE is ideal running form, and what I've seen of slow motion of world champions running does not tell me anything different.

"What lift do you need to control it back to the ground?"

Groceries? Broken eggs no good.
Children? Broken kids no good.

Justin

Bama video is a repeat.

Thanks Jacob. You're right. We put the wrong Bama up. It's corrected now.

i'm still seeing the repeat vid.

Well our little secret is out... Ingrid, that is. She killed it this weekend - and all of our CFers at CFLA are breathing a sigh of relief that she really is THAT good. Go Ingrid! She'll be a force to reckon with at Regionals.

And on another note, A BIG THANK YOU to all the judges, volunteers, spectators and athletes that made the SoCal Sectionals a truly awesome event! I know you've heard it before, but it bears repeating - none of this would be possible without the generous contributions of amazing people that are all willing to give in time and effort to pull off these amazing events! Thank you all!

And to all the athletes - I'm proud of you all - for simply showing up and puttin' out your best stuff. We're sending 40 fire-breathers to Regionals! Watch out!

I'm not sure whose idea it was to post classical pieces on the site, but I must say, brilliant. Classical music and in my humble opinion solo violin and cello pieces, are incredibly beautiful and thought provoking. Check out Maxim Vengerov. A master by any standard.

Jared, I could not agree more! All of that running POSE stuff seems really silly to me. Stop over thinking your running form, and haul ass! In my opinion, running fast is about heart, guts, and pain tolerance. Run from point A to point B as fast as you can, taking the distance into consideration. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel... thinking about your form isn't going to make you a better runner... we all are going to have different form, so do what comes naturally for YOU.

#1: I agree especially for deadlifts. A deadlift is not complete until the weight is lowered back to the ground under control.

Even though that Vanity Fair article is from a little while ago, that was one amazing piece!

@#5 Jared

Actually, it's been discussed in many a scientific journal that the eccentric portion of the lift is actually the most beneficial to muscle breakdown and thus growth. Studies have shown that if you perform only the eccentric portion of a lift, you will see much greater results than performing solely the concentric portion. The following website has many of these studies listed, and also some comparing concentric-only programs to concentric and eccentric combined programs.

http://us.commercial.lifefitness.com/content.cfm/benefitsofconcentricandeccentricstrengthtraining

Sure, performing the eccentric portion tires you out and limits your concentric strength, but this is a good thing. I promise that if you begin performing all lifts with good form and lower under control, you will bust through any plateaus you may have reached, see a great increase in muscular strength, and see improvements in muscular endurance. Doing only the concentric portion might be helpful during competition (as you would reduce fatigue in the muscles that you would feel from performing the eccentric part), but in training you should always perform both sections of the lift. Please only post information on the site that is backed by research. Just my (and the scientific community's) $0.02.

I recommend Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3MiETaBSnc

#7

I completely agree with you.

Congatulations Ingrid, great job!!!

At #5 - google 'eccentric hypertrophy'.

As already mentioned lowering under control is very functional (I like the eggs and kids example), and must be practiced. Strength is skill based. So yes, neglecting the eccentric phase to concentrate more on the concentric will make you stronger, but mostly concentrically.

Conversely, also doing eccentric movements will develop greater capacity to also develop concentric strength.

NB: Exceptions that I recommend to avoid are the Oly's

Depends on intent as far as a dropped rep. In watching a CF Journal video (or several) they drop weights all the time...

I would say a snatch or a clean if dropped before the end of them movement is a lost rep. By design, I guess, these movements are "pick up" movements only.

#23
Right. I mean if the eccentric phase is reversing the movement, how do you un-snatch?

I agree with #22. If the intent of the workout is to produce maximal power output then the eccentric phase should me minimised. During the eccentric phase work is not output but instead performed on the body by the lowering weight ( hence the increased muscle damage etc ). If the intent is strength development the using both eccentric/concentric would make the strength more well rounded?

any crossfitters in albq New mexico i need a workout partner

Michael Lewis has written an excellent article. A must read.

crossfit is legit, im straight jacked now.

One question on the photos - Ingrid runs not POSE-method?

M/35/69"/170

38:15 5mi recovery run

I read this on yahoo news this morning and wanted to share with you all. It sounds like the Army is finally cathching on and updating its Fitness program!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_new_basic_training

#13 RobW - good to see you on the boards mano! Agree that HQ is providing a nice selection to ease people into the classical genre.

Just saw Tommy up our way last week, says things are all good down your way and that CF757 is doing well. Hope to see you and the CFVB folks this summer when I'm down on duty.

BRK BRK

As to the article, I came across a lot of this information on TAL's "Return to the Giant Pool of Money":

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/390/Return-To-The-Giant-Pool-of-Money

Wondering if anybody else gave this a listen and what you thought?

Can wait until next Rest Day, but wanted to throw up that link.

#7, #14, #19, have you read the Pose book? It would answer many of your concerns, much more so than the videos posted here. It's a fairly easy read and in it Dr. Romanov explains exactly why running is more than just something you're born knowing how to do and is in fact a skill. Like any other skill in sports there are definitely right and wrong ways to do it.

You wouldn't expect to tell some kid (or anyone who has not been properly trained) who had never been taught to squat to do 100 air squats and then expect him to nail the form on all 100 and just magically be proficient at it. You would have to teach him all the right cues and form and all that. Running is not so different.

Likewise, if your only resource for learning how to do a proper C&J or Snatch is the videos on CrossFit.com and the CFJ articles by Bill Starr you're never going to maximize your potential as you might with more in-depth study and the guidance of a good coach.

Yes, love the classical music phase. Sooo many to choose from. Beauty, grace, power and intensity. Sounds about right for this forum.

Let me tell you guys, as a phys. ed. teacher, I now must teach running! It is indeed a skill and many people don't know how to run...

As # 14 said before, running as any other exercise is painful. Nowadays, the pain threshold of our kids is very low. They have a hard time to tolerate soreness from a light WOD.

Many of my students don’t know anything about pain (felt from exertion). I actually do some of the Crossfit Kids WODs with some of my students but 15 years old have a hard time doing 15 complete push ups in a row… Imagine asking them to perform the “Big Dawgs” WODs or any WOD from the Crossfit site!

Still, there are exceptions. These kids, I will push and lead them into the actual WODs and try to follow me during my worouts.

It's crazy that so many of the Crossfit LA people did so well at those events!

Great job guys! What's the secret???

#7, #14, #19 -- I completely agree.

I'm happy for the people who are able to go to a running cert or have access to a coach. Those are neither available nor realistic options for me.

I was a repeatedly-injured heel-striking plodder for years until I simply ditched my running shoes. Switching to my Chuck Taylor hightops forced me into a quick, light forefoot/midfoot stride. It took a while for my muscles to adjust, but I can now do CFE workouts and recently raced a pain-free 5K.

Sure, there is some skill involved with running, but it is not such a huge component as it is in something like Olympic lifting or swimming.

#31- I also read in the Army Times that they a severely cutting the amount of time and focus given to physical training, so while this revamp seem like a good thing, the results are yet to be seen.

I've only been crossfiting for two weeks, but I'm still upset that this is the only wod that I can do as rx'ed. Hopefully I can get it tomorrow.

I believe the pose method has it's value, depending on the situation. If you have ever ran track or are a middle of the pack distance runner or triathlete, the pose method is great for longer, slower running. Say, a 25-30 min 5k. If you are looking for real speed, the pose method breaks down when you are really juicing it, say a 30-34 min 10k. Think about working on your squat technique versus performing 400 air squats as fast as possible. Your form is going to break down a little bit when going balls-out. I am not knocking pose and it's benefits, but, you should know when to concentrate on form and when to hit the afterburners.

In regards to last rest day's article, "How the Inbred Lab Mouse Helps Reprogram the Human Genome":

I found the article to be very interesting, especially being from Maine, I had no idea that the lot lab mice around the US are from right in my backyard, pretty cool. I found especially interesting the part of the article towards the end talking about how mice can now be transplanted with a piece of an actual human tumor. This may lead to being able to test out a treatment regime and see the effect before undergoing chemo or other treatment yourself. I'd say that's a pretty nice luxury if you can afford it. I wonder if this may someday work with other diseases as well, so that a treatment could be performed and results evaluated before committing to one or another. You could see what treatment plan will work best before you instead of trying everything and hoping one works.

3:27:33. This was a really tough workout. It greatly discouraged me and lowered my self esteem.

In spain lovin it but still can't wait to get back into lifting again

SoCal Sectionals were excellent, congratulations to all the competitors and thanks to the judges and volunteers for putting on an excellent event at a beautiful venue!

DU/L-PU/DB Clean WOD, details there.

Great article from Vanity Fair.

As for running, I've had to change my style to land farther forward on my foot due to injury caused by landing on my heel.

For lifts, it's a deadlift, not a deadlift to deadputdown. Think how heavy are some of the weights we power up. If it's a power clean of 250 pounds, it's much harder to control that weight back to the ground safely. I think we should be judge on getting it up and drop the hell out of it if we want.

Made up Monday's WoD: Back Ext, K2E, & OH Squats
- 8:00 Jumping Rope
- Active Stretching
CFWoD for 3/15/10:
AMRAP 20 of:
- 15 x Back Extensions
- 15 x K2Es
- 15 x 95lb Overhead Squats
-- Total Rounds Completed: 5

4th set of OH squats, I got a strange tingling in my arms which spread from my thumb and first two fingers all the way up to my shoulders, on both sides. I'm assuming I managed to compress the nerve in my wrist with the heavy weight pressing my hands back. Right arm cleared up pretty quickly, but I'm still getting the occasional tingle/ghost pain in the left. Have to keep an eye on that. Completed a fifth round of all exercises despite the weirdness of the tingling.

Interesting to have a presentation on Pose running along with a picture that is absolutely NOT Pose!

Michael, come on bro- we all know form can suffer under increased intensity. And the SoCal Sectionals WODs were intense!!!

Igrid - It was, and always is a beautiful sight to watch you do your thing - POSE or not! Great job at dominating the competition!

To all of the competitors, you are all studs and blow my mind with with your ability to kick such major ass!

To all of my fellow CFLA'ers You guys impressed the shit out of me this weekend... Although I already knew you would (and you did not let me down)!

To the event staff and volunteers - GREAT JOB THIS WEEKEND! You guys rocked it hard core. You made our event a wonderful experience for me and everyone I know who experienced it!

THANK YOU ALL!

Eric Black-
Thanks for backing me up! Hahah! I had just finished 52 calories of rowing, 30 DL at 185#, and 49 overhead squats at 65#, in the previous 30 minutes...

However, I had started out with better POSE form. There are some pictures that show me striking on my forefoot better closer to the start of the 800. I promise I had tried to use good form!! I was just trying to make it across the line at that point!

Again a big thank you to everyone at the SoCal Sectional! It was too much fun!

Oh and the secret to the success at CFLA is having an awesome community of incredbible CrossFitters that push each other through every WOD. Our instructors are firebreathers themselves and Andy Petranek is an OG.

Most of what CrossFitters do is about "heart, guts, and pain tolerance" (#14) but that doesn't mean that there isn't a way to do it that will be better for your body in the long run. The whole point of POSE is going BACK to the wheel, not reinventing it. It was reinvented in the 70s with the advent of the running shoe!

It's not a question of thinking about form any more than doing O-lifts is about thinking about form. Practice the form during training and then you can let the thinking go during performance. If you think about form during performance time you'll botch them.

One of the things I noticed this weekend at the sectionals was a thread in conversations that led me to believe that so many people, CrossFitters included, still think that CrossFit is JUST about a hard workout. If that's what you want, great, but you can get that in a kettlebell class or a boot camp. CrossFit is about REAL fitness - health AND mastery of movement. If you're really interested in the "elite" part of "elite fitness" it's can't ONLY be heart and guts. I've seen enough people with heart and guts get nowhere because they refuse to train and learn.

I gotta agree with Ingrid. The secret was the HUGE cheering section that was made up of CFLA students. The COMMUNITY qualified this weekend, for sure!

Just finished yesterday's workout. Four rounds plus 11 OHS. #46, I get the same numbness in my arms. I'm pretty concerned about this, a lot of the guys I workout with don't have this problem. Anybody have any guesses or answers on how to eliminate this?

nice form. Hey 227 - those knee-highs compliment that outfit - smoking!!

m/250/39

500 jump ropes 5:37:98

15/25/35
squats
perfect push ups
pull ups
sit ups
25:58:25

I love those skull socks on the girl standing on the sideline in the blue shorts.

POSE running = interesting because if you go outside of the 100 meter dash to 400 and 800 meter runs and slow down world class runners they land on their heels. The Lower Leg is in full extension and thus landing on the heel and absorbing shock (the way the foot is intended to absorb shock). After 100+ meters the form will break down and normal running will take over. Just look at the 800 and 1600 meter specialists at the next olympics.

Now as for Ingrid - congrats you were spectacular.

As for why crossfit LA did so well on the sectionals??? Maybe it is because the people who programed the WODs were able to program the training for 3+ months prior to the sectionals?? Or maybe not - I would imagine it would be hard not to program training that would benefit your athletes even subconsciously.

NEW STANDARDS FOR SECTIONALS
all sectionals should have the same wods
3 GIRLS the first day
and a
HERO on the last day
the wods are pulled out of a hopper 2 weeks before the sectional and everyone is told what they are. The sectionals across the world should all be done within one month.

When the best of the best are at REGIONALS then the crazy WODs can rear their nasty little heads. This gives may LEVEL the playing ground a wee bit more.

Just sayin'

Nice plug for Mendelssohn! I would recommend Mendelssohn's octet or first string quintet.

#13-Maxim Vengerov is a great violinist. One of the few that find exercise important. He works out almost more than he practices. It takes serious muscle to play classical music! And don't forget the music for solo viola!

Another very interesting rest day article:

"Our experience in fooling around with the genes of mice has taught us that many of the traits that interest us are not definite products of specific mutations but emergent phenomena arising from extremely complex interactions between genes, environment, and life experience. Most of the cures for the medical problems that torment us will probably come not from fixing particular genes but from using the genome as a window into our biology."

A sliding scale of nature and nurture, of context and response, creating new contexts, demanding new responses.

Fits well with the way I like to see the world. Wonder if it's true?

Did a 5k today at camp virgina, didn't catch my time as I was busy mooning our medic as i beat him to the finish... somewhere around 20 minutes though...

"For lifts, it's a deadlift, not a deadlift to deadputdown. Think how heavy are some of the weights we power up. If it's a power clean of 250 pounds, it's much harder to control that weight back to the ground safely. I think we should be judge on getting it up and drop the hell out of it if we want."

Sure, if you are more concerned about moving a weight from point A to B for a game rather than exercising your muscles in the most efficient manner.

Justin

37:00

37:00 as rx'd

nice musical selection again coach!

Congradulations Ingrid, you look great!

Outstanding article on a contrarian investment and strategy. Just as many of the most accomplished artists are often a bit "different" so is Dr. Burry. Amazing work ethic and insight.

New to Crossfit, 3 months now. Did the workout as rx'd. 47:00. After two children, I am finally feeling strong again. Didn't ever think I'd be able to cut it. Loving every minute of every workout!

yea INGRID!! congrats on the crossfit games! you did amazing!