June 20, 2009
Waiting for "Jackie", 2009 CrossFit Games Western Canadian Qualifiers
Shane Hamman by CrossFit Again Faster, CrossFit Journal Preview - video [wmv] [mov]
Break Records Legally: CrossFit will be conducting on-site steroid testing on all athletes competing at the 2009 CrossFit Games.
Post thoughts to comments.
Posted by lauren at June 20, 2009 6:17 PM
I have been wondering if Coach was going to test the athletes after the games.
Have Fun, Train Hard,
Glad to hear that the use of "Vitamin-S" is out the door! Although it's hard to believe a Crossfitter would ever go there, you just never know.
WOW,,, I literally just asked my wife about steroids and CF. I am sure that there are some athletes out there that do it for the love and lifestyle, too bad there are some that would use performance enhancing drugs. Just eat more protein and life hard....
Way to go CF HQ, I commend you on your continued promotion of healthy living!!!
Eric Comment 2, I don't believe a crossfitter would ever go there (use steroids)
Believe it, people do funny things for money and glory. I am glad to see that this sport is growing quickly and that coach is staying out in front, as usual.
Have Fun, Train Hard,
Progressive, not reactive, I love it
I'm exhausted and need this rest day. Good week.
This is pretty last minute. I wonder if there will be any sudden "injuries"?
How is this not reactive? There have been rumors about steroid use for two years now!
Steroid testing? That seems to be against the libertarian party line.
But I like it anyway. Keep the competition pure.
love the decision! great job coach! and thank you!
against the libertarian party line? Not unless they are turning people over to the government for violating the law. Libertarians don't have problems with the private sector regulating itself.
Good call Xfit.
Should have tested at The Qualifiers...might be some deserving athletes sitting at home come The Games.
Dude, accentuate the positive. Your glass is half empty and it doesn't need to be so. This Games thing is now THREE YEARS OLD. Let's be reasonable, eh?
Well played, Coach.
...and Lauren, and Dave, and Tony...
and i agree with #8
What a great rest day posting. Steroid testing will do a lot to legitimize the games, and no questionable right-wing propaganda! I love it. Enjoy the weekend!
Yay! No Steroids! I wish I had more muscle but steroids is not the way to go.
What time does the CrossFit games start? What's the schedule?
dude, should have tested at The Qualifiers. Do you think HQ realized that ped's may be an issue this week?
THIS IS AWESOME! I'm so glad to see the steroid testing being done before something that could happen comes out of the woodwork and tarnishes the good image of Crossfit.
Keep it all legit!
I am so happy there will be testing. If people are using, then you can nip it in the bud. If they aren't, then it keeps the juicers out of our culture.
Good call. It's impossible to know if it's proactive or reactive without being able to test the athletes of the first two games, but either way it's the right decision. Helps to reinforce the legitimacy of CF to the "non-believers".
Whats the over/under on the number of positives?
with how competitive crossfit has gotten, it's probably a good idea to test. i wouldn't be surprised if there are juicers among us. once something gets as big as crossfit has gotten, it's bound to have some bad apples in the bunch.
something to ponder: what about other supplements? are other things like creatine fair? is that not a performance enhancing substance?
Testing at the Games -- i.e., at a single event, once a year -- won't do much to reduce steroid use. Individuals can use steroids for long spans of time to develop size they would otherwise never achieve, and then simply quit using for a short time prior to the games. Someone like John Welbourn will repeat the benefits of steroid use for a looooong time.
The decision to test is a great call made at the right time.
It really is a shame that things have come to this, but it is a GREAT decision to test and make sure no one can say anything about who wins!
i would like to compete in the steroid only crossfit games
When Lance Armstrong began his comeback earlier this year, he vowed at the beginning to be tested for PEDs regularly and post the results on his LiveStrong website. However, he quickly reneged on his offer after (I believe) realizing how expensive the testing process is. I think with PED testing, like anything else, you get what you pay for, and a UCI-level testing process would probably be well worth the cost.
I can't help but wonder why HQ is giving criminals a head start, you know, the cheaters who qualified for the games, by offering three weeks of heads-up for testing, which is the amount of time it takes to wash the stuff out of a person's circulatory and endocrine system. Here's my theory: CF got some serious and legitimate wind of a much-beloved firebreather(s), male or female, juicing on a regular basis. Of course, once word gets to HQ, legally they can't unring a bell, so they had to take action before word got out that they knew and didn't do anything. So...they're going to test, but as a goodwill gesture AND to save the PR machine and the hater haters that worship sub-2 Fran times (similar to MLB being somewhat hesitant to reveal players who have tested positive for steroids because "chicks dig the long ball" and home run chases fill up seats), the Gods and Goddesses are being given a chance to clean out before the Games...IMO...
If CF wants to play hard ball with cheaters, the company needs to conduct no-notice 100% testing before the first event. I think the results would be shocking and heartbreaking, but sometimes that's what it takes to build legitimacy. Welcome to the big leagues.
Balls good / Steroids Bad
only steroids? ...better test all those clowns from LA for bHCG?
Irrelevant. This is the first year that qualifiers were held. You, and everyone else who has taken a similar position elsewhere, fail to realize or admit the simple fact that this evolving enterprise is THREE YEARS OLD. It involves a learning process. Might it turn out that testing during the Qualifiers is a good idea? Sure. Are the logistics and expenses involved overwhelming? You bet.
On the whole the CF Games continue to move in a positive direction, wouldn't you say? The moves and reactions that CFHQ has made seem pretty spot on, no? This is still a very small business in comparison with the enterprises that you would have CF compared with. In the abstract my guess is that Coach, Lauren, Dave and Tony would agree with you. It seems to me that the group running this show has reacted pretty swiftly to issues like this, all things considered.
Steroid testing at the Games is a huge step filled with layer upon layer of meaning and significance (as pointed out in posts above). Celebrate the courage it took to take this step at this stage and offer suggestions with a positive mien for the future.
Hats off to you, Coach, for the drug testing. Way to up the game.
The vast majority of my non-WOD posts are either positive or silly BS like "Sunday Musings". On occasion, rare though it may be, I post something negative.
Do you Crossfit? A couple of weeks ago I went back after one of your attack days (though your posts are rather well-written, kudos) and searched for you and your times. Nothing. Nada. Bupkis. No DT. Are you an Affiliate CF'er? An ascetic, pining for the purity of 2004 and the company of the original 100 Crossfitters?
Who are you? Why are you here? What do you have to contribute? To give? What PLUS do you bring? Or are you like the Jenga master, seeking to take the most delicate post to prove your worth, but always taking nonetheless?
If the .com posters most likely to be pegged Crossfit polyanna's occasionally lob a stink bomb, where is your first love bomb?
Why are you here?
#4 - "Believe it, people do funny things for money and glory."
Not even for money or glory. I've known a variety of people who've used steroids and they were not competitive athletes on any level. They just wanted to be bigger and stronger, or wanted to be the tough guy, or whatever. Certainly in MMA and BJJ it runs rampant, just like many other sports. I think far more people use it in their weekend warrior sports and regular lives than we realize.
I don't see anyway that the funding for testing each athlete at a qualifier is possible. you have single affiliates putting these events on with 100-200 competitors. could you imagine the cost and time involved to test each athlete? however, i think the idea of HQ testing each competitor at the games is awesome. it just raises the integrity of the crossfit name that much more.
the comment by "roger clemens", comment #28, had me laughing out loud like a little kid.
I promise you that none of these guys have EVER taken or currently take, steroids. NEVER!!
RE to #35:
Bingo, thanks for the compliment. Your posts are very artistic and thought-provoking and I enjoy reading them immensely.
I'm not an affiliate or trainer, but I have attended a Level 1 cert and KB cert. Both of those events were a heckuva lot of fun, constructive, worthwhile, and memorable. Words can't express how much I loved those two certs! I'm a crossfitter, I guess, but I can't do most of the workouts as RX'd. I stick to rowing, medicine ball, burpees, and thrusters; someday, I may be able to do a muscle-up, hopefully, but for now I push as hard as I can with the stuff I do.
CrossFit, in it's purest form of the nine basic movements, can change the world. Rest homes, offices, construction sites, and many other places and people could benefit tremendously from learning and applying these principles to daily living. I honesty believe that, more than I can hope to say. However, the company (and it isn't mine, so I have no right to criticize, I guess) is banking on everything being "for time" and sub-whatever-minutes "girls" as their long ball, to fill the seats, and I think this detracts from the beauty of CrossFit.
Say what you want about the globogyms, but they mean a lot to the cancer survivor regaining fitness on the treadmill or the morbidly obese person who is trying to turn their life around by going to the gym one day at a time. For both of them, learning how to perform functional movements to gain and sustain independent living is of paramount importance, but they face disdain, scorn, and uncivil behavior from some idiot who thinks the whole darn world needs to worship him because he can push a barbell over his head quickly or pick a heavy weight up off of the floor, one rep at a time.
Given the frequency and reality of the latter scenario, what is CrossFit REALLY good for? Not much...and it shouldn't be that way, but that's what happens when we worship the long ball.
As for the naysaying of criticism, I will defer to an old Arab proverb: Nothing but sunshine makes a desert.
I believe your comments are a great perspective, and I agree. We do this thing called CrossFit by choice because it suits us, and for whatever reason, it resonates with us. The same can be said for whoever does whatever activity at any type of gym or fitness facility.
Regardless of the endeavor, there will be those few soil its "purity" by using PEDs or doing whatever they feel will give them the edge. If steroid testing is the price we pay for maintaining the integrity of the games, then so be it.
First off.....good on CrossFit HQ for taking a stance on Performance Enhancing Drugs. They are a scourge on our society and the athletic world.
My questions to Coach are these:
Who will be carrying out these tests?
Are they random?
Are they tested before or after the events?
What are they going to be testing for? HGH, EPO, CERA, SUDAFED?
What about recreational drugs such as cocaine and mariajuana?
I am in NO WAY trying to be a buzz kill here....I just think there should be absolute transparency when it comes to drug testing.
I quit the beautiful sport of road cycling for CrossFit because of the rampant drug use......I would hate to see the same thing happen to CF.
Hit it hard....
Who cares if the King of Wall Ball Shots, or the Queen of Air Squats is on steroids? It's not like its a "real" skill, or IS there a line on it in Vegas?
My gym is full of people for whom "learning how to perform functional movements to gain and sustain independent living is of paramount importance". Importantly, these individuals gain greater functional movement because they strive for better performance (usually through faster times), regardless of their starting point, because they see WHAT IS POSSIBLE through watching and hearing about the performance of the sub-3 fran elite. If they have a sub 10 fran they want a sub 5 because they know bionic can do sub 2. In every human endeavor, the general performance under the bell curve is dragged forward by the advancement of the top 1-5% of the bell curve. A great deal of the technology you enjoy on a daily basis exists because "some idiot" wanted to fly to the moon. The same principle applies. Provide me with ANYONE who is benefited by a globogym and I will argue that they will be more greatly, broadly and deeply benefited by CrossFit.
Creating an obstacle for drug users is important, because drug use in sport destroys the hope of the average participant who is not prepared to follow the drug path. My middle-aged client who is obese will strive for a faster fran after watching a world class performance only if they believe it is possible through hard work alone. Drugs create a context of "they can only do that because of the drugs" and undermines hope.
What you are missing is that although not everyone wants or needs to be a world class athlete, deep down everyone would love it if they were. Globogyms remind people that they are average (big generalizion I know), CrossFit asks people to strive beyond average. The performance of the elite provides the hope and dreams, without which the activity is meaningless.
If ever you are in Brisbane, drop in and I'll get you a muscleup.
In no way is testing contrary to Libertarian philosophy. Competing is purely voluntary, if an individual doesn’t like the rule he or she is free to organize there own event.
I just did one round of the Friday WOD to avoid the dreaded DNC.
1 round as Rx'd.
Took me 6:46 and I knew I was done for the day.
Comment #355 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at June 19, 2009 8:30 PM
Put me on the board Herm, I've got 28 minutes to spare!
I love CrossFit, and I believe it is pure enough to stand up to the harsh light of external analysis/ DT's remarks are an interesting perspective. I hope he is not right about a fallen CrossFit Angle, but if he is, I am willing to discuss it. CrossFitters are mature enough to respectfully agree or disagree with each other without attacking the originator.
Its time for us all to evolve.
Just for the record, these .22 caliber beauties are all natural. Yeah, that's right...I've got your tickets to the gun show...right here. One at a time ladies, please...
#48 PB&J thanks for lightening the mood :)
PB&J, I did the same thing!!! It took me 11:16 to do one round. You bastage!
Ive been CrossFitting for about a year and a half now and have had this discussion many times.
Im not sure why you are so upset about this matter DT.
It's just like introducing the CTB pullup standard prior to the games last year. It was never the standard prior to that.
But they saw an opportunity to make a standard across the board, which in the end has benefitted us by making us stronger and holding us to a better standard.
There was no standard prior to this announcement that you couldn't do steroids. Period. (however it was highly frowned upon)
So DT, if CrossFit did get wind of possible steroid use, is it their place to crucify these individuals at the games with no warning? What would that have done to the "PR machine" as you put it. That doesn't sound like the CrossFit community that I am proud to be a part of.
They have made a new standard and we will abide by it. If not, those people not willing to stop will live with the knowledge that they have cheated to get ahead.
Also, do you know of a CrossFitter that has told a cancer survivor or a morbidly obese individual that they are better and have achieved more because they have a sub three minute Fran? Im guessing (if this is true) that you said nothing to them.
Matt Swift #44 said it well:
CrossFit asks people to strive beyond average. The performance of the elite provides the hope and dreams, without which the activity is meaningless.
Bingo #35 asked you a question earlier; why are you here? Continue to stir the pot my friend. Eventually you'll get tired and move along...back to your Globogym.
I agree with the previous posts. Testing for the games is a good thing, but DT also has a pretty good point.
Why not make the testing a surprise? Rather than announcing the testing three weeks in advance, they could have required the athletes to consent to the test when they show up for the games and sign their waiver.
What is there to lose with the surprise approach?
You'd seem to be able to keep CF pure and do a better job eliminating doubt as to who juiced and who might have had time to clean it out of their system.
Ultimately, the people who are using PEDs lose out and certainly don't understand the whole point of CrossFit, but a surprise test seems like it would have been a more effective choice if it was at all feasible.
Kudos coach for the decision and a great vid on Shane Hamman. I met Shane at an Olympic Weightlifting Cert. with Coach B. at GSX earlier this year and he is just one hell of a good guy. Very humble and an excellent coach. If you attend an Oly cert. with Coach B. and Shane is in attendance consider yourself even luckier!
6 rounds all that i got it was TOUGH!!! Triceps pecs and delts are destroyed...
FRAT you all owe me some ice cold CORONAS!!! Big hugs guys lol
#38 and #53 absolutely hilarious and ingenius!!!!
Cool to test at the event! Definitely the way to go. Broad Spectrum testing, not just steroids though.
All my own opinion, of course: but, suspect people with the public's safety in their hands of drug use? Yes, surprise test, as it is a police action to protect the public. Bust them.
Suspect some unknown percentage of your most successful "customers" of using dangerous supplemental drugs to enhance the more visible benefits of your "product"? Certainly do not surprise test them the first time, but announce the first testing event in such a way as to minimize potential individual shame and organizational trauma. The first round is not to bust people, but to establish transparent policy. Let it be known, however, that future testing will be more frequent and random and unannounced.
Shane Hammon...awesome individual and competitor. Drug testing....BRAVO. You gotta do it to keep it legit. For those who think that this is over the top....you are kidding yourself. The last time I competing in powerlifting back in 2001 in a midwest states USAPL meet (supposedly clean tested meet) the kid who won my weight class out lifted me on every lift and walked around with an "oh my gosh look...I can't believe I am lifting this well" look on his face and high fiving his buddies. Asshole tested positive in his next meet one month later. Moral of the story, If some f*ck face is going to juice for a tested meet in the middle of Nebraska...what would someone do on a grand stage like the crossfit games? Yeah, test, catch, and ban for life. It sucks to train clean, follow the rules and get ass handed to you by a cheater...plain and simple. You want to juice..fine, who gives a sh*t, then enter a competition with no testing...you use and enter a tested meet, then you are an asshole. Can you tell I am bitter?
Many of the posts today are quite acidic. There is no reason for it.
It seems to that not one person (aside from the Sammy Sosa posts, :-) that has stated that testing is a bad thing.
So we are all in violent agreement that testing should be done in Crossfit, cool.
Where is the argument?
When someone gets busted for using steroids they should feel shame and they should be shunned by the community. Big deal. We'll all put on our big boy underpants and get over it when it happens, and it will.
I think some of the folks who post on this board should train harder and type less.
Have Fun, Train Hard,
You could just use a lie detector to test them
I say props to the steroid testing!
#57 is right on.
This is more a statement of intent as it is a means of catching people. Anyone with any sense who is juicing and could be caught will stay away. It's not a money sport so your rep in the community is all you've got. I can't see someone risking that. Anyway, I don't want to see anybody come up hot anyway - that would just be sad.
Isnt Crossfit about trying to better your own times anyway?
I mean, I dont really care that someone can do Fran in sub 2 mins, I just care that I can do Fran in sub 6 and set a new PB.
The games are an interesting exercise in watching Crossfit athletes in action, but really, the main kick is all about self-improvement
from Libertarian Party of Georgia @ lpgeorgia.com
It is most definitely against the Libertarian Party line.
"The Libertarian Party of Georgia believes in personal responsibility, and the players who choose to use steroids or human growth hormone will have to live with the results. Long-term effects of prolonged use of these substances are thought to include joint pain, nerve compression, fluid retention, hypertension, cardiovascular disease, impotence, and jaundice. If any punishment is owed to the players who have used these drugs, it will be dealt in due course by their own bodies. Each player has to decide for himself if improved performance is worth these risks; it should not be the job of the government, the players union, or Commissioner Selig to protect the players from themselves."
Is there a list of "banned" substances for the games? Is it just the same as the IOC list or does CrossFit have its own specific list?
How can you say you'll be testing for substances and stripping any titles away from those caught, but not provide a list of what precisely those substances are? This isn't CrossFit's usual scientific approach at all.
thank god. im still new to crossfit and i can barely move my arms from the previous workouts.
Well said Matt. Definately one of the "wiser" crossfitters.
The drug testing will hopefully shut up alot of the criticism coming from the exercise science community aswell, the type that don't believe it until there's a 10 yr, $50,000 study done on it.
I think the unfortunate reality is that the people the decision makers turn to for advice (ex. scientist, nutritionalist etc.) have made a career, money and a name for themselves among thier peers saying "ABC" is the truth. As soon as we offer evidence that "XYZ" is the actual solution we challenge not only what they "know" to be truth, but thier ego's and reputations aswell, and this is where the real resistance will come from...
Or something like that.
8 x 400m today:
Doesn't help having to run up & down bloddy hills to get the whole 400m.
Thanks again to everyone.
No matter what the puritan's think drugs are in all sports fact! The problem is now that HQ has given the cheats a heads up. Crossfit games must be tested in competition, out of competition and randomly through out the year. This needs to be done under WADA or IOC guide lines. This must be done for the good of Crossfit to stop people believing that CF is like all other American pro sports and for that matter most pro sports throughout the world.(full of doping)
A lot of interesting perspectives. (I particularly like the way that #58 Anthony put it!)
Bingo, I always have, and still do value your input and opinions. Well put.
#44 Matt stated, "Provide me with ANYONE who is benefited by a globogym and I will argue that they will be more greatly, broadly and deeply benefited by CrossFit." I think that this is infinitely true as long as these attributes are present, motivation and sustainability. I think that some people go to a globogym just to be able to say to themselves (and others) that they are trying to get in shape. These people are okay with being the "average" globogym participants. It is better than them not working out at all....but CrossFit would be better for them.
I like CrossFit. I enjoy competing against my self and seeing others compete in CrossFit. I can't stand cheaters and liars. CrossFit HQ has always seemed to know what they are talking about; that's one of the reasons that CrossFit appeals to me, it just makes a whole lot of sense. It is good practice to celebrate high achievement. If there is going to be an event like the Games, then it is good to keep the cheaters out of it.
We were just talking about 'vitamin s' in the community and wondering how prevalent it is. It's good to see that now there will be no more wondering about record breaking times. Bravo Coach!
Why shouldn't people be allowed to use steroids?
To the best of my knowledge (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), steroids just reduce your down time so you can train again sooner, i.e. you don't become a beast by simply using steroids and sitting on the couch, you do in fact have to train twice as much (or whatever the factor is).
This competition is completely arbitrary in terms of how we measure performance - of course I appreciate the line has to be drawn somewhere e.g. chest to bar on pullups; I just would have expected CF to also appreciate that using 'enhancements'/drug testing is completely arbitrary as well.
If someone can set a world record, say, in the C&J by using steroids as a supplement in his training regime, who the hell are you to say that's not legitimate? I don't know what the specific long term health detriments are, but one could go so far as to say the person who is willing to sacrifice their long term health for world class performance is more deserving of the rewards and glory competing at that level brings than someone who isn't.
"It is most definitely against the Libertarian Party line."
No. Crossfit isn't testing to protect participants from themselves. They are testing to ensure that the winner doesn't win because he is on juice. The concern is with the integrity of results and not with the well being of the participants.
If you bother to read the quote, you'll see they say "it should not be the job of the government, the players union, or Commissioner Selig to protect the players from themselves."
Good move on the testing. I agree with Anthony Springman that anyone who qualified for the Games, participates, and tests positive should be banned from CF. I also think that anyone who has qualified and used steroids shouldn't be banned IF they come forward now, on the comments, and admit to using. Of course, they're out of the Games this year, but not out for life.
We're only 20 days out from the Games. It would be tough to get every trace out of anyone's system in that time. But there are ways to get around any testing no matter how close to the event. Cheaters will find a way.
That said, I'd be very surprised if ANY of those going to the Games tested positive. I guess we'll see.
Taking the stance against steroids is dope!
Yeah, good move, but how effective is it really? There is too much money in crossfit now for some people not to be using. How many firebreathers don't have their own box??
OK, I absolutely agree with Bingo and Matt's quotes but find DT's distateful.
DT, what is distasteful about your post isn't your quest for more testing - admirable
it isn't your questions about whether the quest for elite performance is helping or hindering the true benefit of Crossfit
What is distasteful is you posting a theory questioning the integrity of the reason for the drug testing. That also questions the integrity of the people running the Games and making the decision to test.
Is that what you are trying to do?
"That also questions the integrity of the people running the Games and making the decision to test."
Drug testing questions the integrity of the competitors. You have a problem with that as well?
Not enough to test for "steroids". You need to test for the complete gambit of performance enhancing drugs and techniques off the IOC list. This should be clarified.
I don't think its a big deal to announce testing. Most sports announce tests and even "no-notice" tests aren't as no-notice as people believe. Athletes have fair warning.
Also why just negate their performance? You put their names on a public list and you ban them from ever participating in a CrossFit event again (or at least for a long period of time to negate gains via the drugs). Then and only then will you legitimize CrossFit testing. The rest of the world sporting events call cheaters out, CrossFit should as well.
I'm a 36 year old, semi-in-shape guy and will probably never compete in any games whatsoever. I'm not an affiliate either.
But I have been posting here for a month or so and have been x-fitting for about 3 months and have seen huge improvements in the way I feel and the way I feel about myself.
As a retired submission grappling junkie Crossfit is EXACTLY what I needed to fill that void and I actually prefer it to the former.
So while I really like the fact that testing is being done because it is cheating and it could be deterring to a lot of honest, hard-working athletes, it won't change my opinion nor probably many other people's opinions of how awesome Crossfit is. I don't think Xfit's image will be tarnished in any way when some people are found.
I don't care whether some of these guys are juicing or not. I care for their health but they are big boys and can make decisions for themselves...and accordingly can deal with the consequences themselves.
But right is right and if you are going to put yourself in a position where you are competing against others who are honest then you should be legit and it should be a level playing field.
So as a Libertarian, sure...go ahead and juice. But don't try and claim to be the fittest man alive while doing it.
Having said that, there should be a list of acceptable supplements so that everyone knows exactly where the line is being drawn.
Just my humble opinion.
testing is a great step in the right direction.
glad you posted a little bit about your background. maybe you're not just a troll. still i don't get how you spin off on some wild speculation that HQ got word that "one of their much beloved firebreathers" was juicing. that is the kind of baseless gossipy shit that makes you have no credibility.
Matt Swift - very well said.
#53 Sammy Sosa - that was really damn funny!
I guess it does Jacko, but you have to admit that it is in a different way to DT's theory.
Drug testing is an attempt to level the playing field and yes...carries an inherent suspicion that one or several of many competitors may be cheating.
Accusing the Games organisers of covering up positive drug test by annoucning drug tests early to give drug cheats a chance to dry out.....is questioning integrity bluntly and openly
surely you admit there's a difference
It is occasionally funny to me that it is so rarely posted or noted that we are all data points. Do fish know they live in an aquarium? I wonder...
Early on in my posting "career" here at CF, I had an inkling that a particular rest day post was intended for a different purpose, as a kind of experiment, and the comments were data points. It wasn't about the discussion of ideas for themselves, it had a slightly different intended effect.
I posted that thought here, was ignored largely, and later Coach verified this point for me.
I don't know any more than anyone else, but I wonder if the posted topic today doesn't serve many purposes to very different groups of people.
For DT and others: CF has two aspects that make it unique - it is both fitness program and sport. For those who do not care to compete with anyone other than themselves, CF's "sport" aspect is a great psychological tool for tracking and measuring one's own progress against only one other competitor - the earlier version of yourself. For those who truly want to compete against others in CF (the evolving 'sport of fitness'), then having drug testing in Year 3 of the Games puts CF only about 100 years ahead of MLB, the NFL, and most other major sports in its development.
Dale, you hit it on the head, they are testing the reaction of the community to the announcement. They can use the data to continue to refine how they not only test, but how they evaluate the games as a whole, from testing, to events, to prizes.
Hey what gives? I come to this website every 4 days to read some good ol' right wing commentary; but today nada, just info about the crossfit games.
You could have at least gotten Dick Cheney's take on all this...
Couple thoughts. If someone has said this, I apologize, as I don't have time to read everything.
In steroid testing, we are looking for is a signal in noise. The noise is athletic performance. The signal is tampering with that performance by using drugs.
Now, in Signal Theory, the only sure way to make sure no signals are missed, is to allow them all through, noise and all. Inverted, in this case, that would mean no one was allowed to compete. Logically, this is the only way to be SURE no one cheats.
Short of that, you have testing 100% of the time, say daily. Obviously, this is not practical. It makes some sense during a long event like the Tour de France, where cheating during the race is an advantage, but not year round.
Therefore, we must accept in principle that some people may cheat, and not get caught. This holds in substantially all sports.
With respect to the three weeks, what advantage comes from catching people? Would it do the CrossFit world good to know that some unexpected person has--for an unknown period of time--been using? We've already established that cheating is possible, and that some of the cheaters--if there are any, which is far from proven--will not get caught. So why not even the field, give everyone fair notice to clean up their act, and keep rolling?
Finally, we have to ask what the point of sports is. To me, it is to use this as a ritual, a template, for self improvement. Absent competition, it's hard to push yourself to your max, to find out what you've got in the tank. More: to continually INCREASE your mental, emotional and physical toughness. It's quite literally a ritual of self perfection, in its ideal sense.
There can be only one winner. If winning is the locus of all good, everyone but one will be disappointed every year.
Yet, if you have the proper attitude, you can win EVERY year, without juice.
My two cents.
Great News on the Steroid issue! Nice to know that the playing field is even. just like the olympics I'm sure there will always be a way to get around the testing etc....but at least this testing will detect the common and easy to get stuff.
Great move....very legit!
I agree totally. I'm new to crossfit and don't know much about the games but working out is becoming a lifestyle for me. the only way I have been able to stay with it and keep it honest is to constantly have the vision of bettering myself. For me it's kind of like having a relationship. If you want it to last you gotta find a way to fall in love with it over and over again. I think I'm a little off subject now but I hope you guys understand what I'm saying. Overall I just think people focus too much on either winning or the way they look. If you focus on improving your performance and constantly making yourself better than you were everything else should follow. Alright I'm all over the place, have a good day everyone.
of course i'm talking about natural improvement through hard work.
This may be beyond the scope of what CF has the resources for yet, but is there now a banned substances list? If there is a list will CF be adopting a preexisting list? Will it be the IOC, NCAA, NFL?
Kudos to Dale Saran and Barry Cooper for reasoned, concise (from Barry!) thoughts on the issue. Why now and why like this? Geoff #55 may have offered at least one very plausible reason. Thanks to all three gentlemen.
Nick Sydney kinda gets what was bugging me about DT's post, although I'm not sure I would have use the word "distasteful", probably "disturbing" or"uncomfortable", especially after DT #39 gave us a little insight into his/her CF life. But Nick is precisely right, and put it much better than I, when he points out the tone and inference in DT's original post. It's the assumption of bad faith, mal-intent, something nefarious rather than something virtuous that is so unfortunate. Why is that the "first shot across the bow" is I guess a better way of asking my question. DT #39 is really talking about CF and the personal fitness application, not CF the "sport of fitness", and I think Matt Swift replied well, with kindness. Again thanks to both of you as well.
Crossfit "the phenomenon" and Crossfit "the business" are basically runaway trains, hurtling through the fitness world and poised to enter the general consciousness, all done essentially WITHOUT A PLAN. Watch Coach's video from ystd. I've heard this from him personally as have many people you "know" here. There's no reason not to take him at his word. The guy sits astride a galloping stallion with only the knowledge that he's going in the right direction, occasionally nudging his steed to alter course. There was no Mapquest involved, for Crossfit in general or the Crossfit Games in particular.
Can't you just see the meeting? Coach, Lauren, Dave Castro, Tony Budding, maybe Andy Stumpf and Nicole. "You think someone's doing juice?" "I dunno (shrug)." "Think it matters?" "Probably." "We should probably test, huh?" "Yeah, probably." "Whaddaya think that costs, anyway?" And into the black box of Crossfit evaluation goes steroid, etc. testing.
Come on...lighten up DT and others. There's no great conspiracy going on here. The over-riding strategy is "do the next right thing at the next right time for the right people." Oliver Stone would be pretty bored sniffing around CF.
Unless, that is, he was looking for a WOD.
How about this scenario at the qualifiers: The athletes who qualified are tested immediately after the last wod. This was anywhere from 2 to 14 athletes per region.
bingo, you need to take a step back and look at CrossFit without bias.
I love the CrossFit training philosophy, the Games, etc..., but the one thing that gets me is "The Fittest Athlete Alive". If this is a claim that is going to be made, all details need to be ironed out before the Qualifiers start or after the Games end. Any moves made during affect the integrity of The Games and credibility of all involved.
Revealing that there will be testing is questionable. Wouldn't testing be more effective if it was announced the morning of the Games. I think testing was announced so early to ensure that anyone who is juicing will be able to hide it or not show in order for CrossFit to protect themselves.
I think it's great that we're taking the proactive approach here. Hopefully, nobody in the community is using, but it's wise not to underestimate the stupidity of some people.
Many of us are aware that Crossfit programming, combined with diet, is supposed to increase natural levels of HGH and testosterone. So, what are the chances of false positives?
Surely, finding juicers among the elite of the CF community would come as a shock and a shame, but to receive a false positive from one of our firebreathers would be a greater injustice, in my opinion. I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be testing. I am suggesting caution in the use of said tests.
I hope that we will not see any positives at the Games. I think that part of the reason that use of performing enhancing drugs is so rampant in professional sports is simply that greater rewards beget greater risks. Does it make sense to risk your health and reputation for a few million dollars? To many people, it does. But the Crossfit Games competitors are essentially fighting for an olive wreath. Such a competition is better for the community, the players and the sport as a whole, than a team contracts and a boatload of cash for the winners.
The Crossfit community should apply the same rigorous scientific standards to steroids that it does to every other aspect of performance.
There's no evidence steroids cause death or suicide. The evidence that long-term use has permanent health effects is inconclusive.
The science on the dangers of steroids is as weak as the science on the dangers of eating fat.
Barry Cooper 82,
I agree. Nicely put.
I vehemently disagree with the steroid testing.
I think it is a violation to our right to privacy as granted by our constitution. This will violate my rights and I don't think it is right. This is America, right?
Furthermore, most people just wouldn't be able to do as well if they weren't on steroids, and I think this is unfair to them.
It seemed almost right out of ancient Greece. I like it.
Your last post @ 8am didn't sound like your voice for some reason.
But this line was classic "Oliver Stone would be pretty bored sniffing around CF."
I'm going to reuse that somewhere. Don't wait for the royalty check.
And over all what is with all the haters? I want what is best for crossfit, I'm assuming you want what is best for crossfit. Is that how you handle the peccadilloes and deficiencies of your friends and loved ones? You throw a fire bomb at them? I can't imagine that kind of behavior would lead to anything other than a very lonely sad life.
They are not testing for steriod use because steroids are dangerous. They are testing because steroid use can give a significant and unfair advantage in a competition such as this.
The argument is that drugs are not part of natural physical capacity. My understanding is that the whole goal of Crossfit is to advance natural physical performance, thus drug-aided advancement violates the purpose and the ideals of Crossfit.
I suppose that you could argue that a favorable diet and access to proper equipment and excellent coaching are all "non-natural" performance enhancers, and you would be right, in a way. The question is then, "where do we draw the line?"
Wherever you draw the line between cheating and training is up to you and you will have to live with the consequences. But for the Crossfit Games, the line has been drawn quite clearly: steriod use is prohibited.
Great decision, can't wait to see the outcome.
Did everyone see that Barry Sears will be talking to crossfitters:
CrossFit Dr Barry Sears Seminar
Orange County Sheriff's Academy
It's free, you just have to get there. I'll see ya there :-)
Have Fun, Train Hard,
Hey Jakers, I'll see you Monday night at your gym :-) I am kicking around the idea of opening up another location about ten miles from Olympic Crossfit :-)
Have Fun, Train Hard,
Substance testing is a deterrent. Like locks on your door, or police officers, they don't stop those who violate norms. They just make it more costly to engage in unwanted behaviours. Judging from personal experience with juicers, it seems the mentality is largely the same as with thieves; a desire for some prize, while reducing the necessary effort. From a personal perspective, this doesn't appeal to me at all, given that everything I've come to appreciate in life has come at a cost.
Testing just increases the cost for those who want to cheat. I doubt anyone is deluded enough to think that testing eliminates juicing, hopefully it just imposes a high enough cost that the benefits of use are outweighed by the ramifications for 99.9% of competitors.
That said, being new to Crossfit, I greatly enjoy it so far(2 weeks). I think that of what I've seen so far, it's the best approach to fitness for me. But I harbour no ill-will to anyone engaging in other forms of exercise, the globo-gym mentality really appeals to some. And it certainly is better than sitting on the couch eating cheese-doodles.
MICHAEL at HVCF today
C: 22:30 w/ real GHD on back ext. killerrrr.
run was ~650m w/ a hill
also snatch PR at 165
Post #92 #42MARQ:
Test right after the Qualifier? Sure. The fact is that there was no testing at the Qualifiers this year. There is a difference between "armchair quarterbacking" and offering good faith suggestions going forward to a young enterprise that seems to be trying to do the right thing. How would you characterize your comment?
It is impossible for anyone to look at anything without bias, MARQ. Indeed, there was a wonderful Rest Day some time back about the different types of bias that exist in everyday life. Step back? How would you propose I do that? I am a Crossfit "civilian"; I do not own a box and I do not train other athletes. I do not work in the fitness arena; I do not work for Crossfit, Inc. I come to this table, and every table, with the assumption of goodwill on behalf of the participants. Why testing, why now, and why like this? Beats me, but I still see no need to assume some devious intent. Why should you, or DT, or anyone?
Why does my basic assumption, here and pretty much everywhere, that mal-intent is only present when proven to be present, mean that I need to "step back"?
What are my chances that there will pull ups tomorrow. I want to rest but I'm just itching to go do some pullups. It's freaking addicting.
Complete as many rounds as possible in 20 minutes of:
155-pound Hang clean, 15 reps
12 Ring dips w/45#
21 GHD Sit-ups
finished 4 rounds with 5 seconds to spare
#95 Anonymous (not a very original name, by the way)
I admit that I have a little sympathy for your position. Why, indeed, do we exclude individuals who take anabolic steroids? Why should we care? Are we not exploring the outer limits of fitness? The "fittest man alive"? Why should/do we care?
I think it's clear from this thread and others over the years that the overwhelming majority of Crossfit Nation would like their champions to have achieved their superior results without the aid or steroids or other PED's. I think, by this very decision, that Coach and Lauren agree. I think everything else is detail work, logistics, and that it will all become rather routine as the Games (and for that matter the establishment of CF WOD records) mature. I'll say it again, the Games are only THREE YEARS OLD.
#42MARQ, I think by this gesture, introducing steroid testing, that Coach and Lauren are stating that the Crossfit definition of fitness will be non-PED assisted. You should remember the definition of fitness before you set out to criticize the mantel of "Fittest Human on the Planet" as well. A touch of hubris you imply? Perhaps. But neither you, nor any other critic of that title has yet to offer either another definition of fitness or another way to test the Crossfit definition.
I will "step back" and await substantive alternatives.
Deadlifts 3 x 5
225 x 5
245 x 5
265 x 5 (PR is 270)
100M Hill Sprint
10 Deadlift 185#
10 Deadhang PU
10:21, but had twinge and abandoned last DL set after 4.
Hey Gang --
Putting out a 40 day challenge.
40 days of --
40 meter sprint, 40 reps
Burpees, 40 reps
Pushups, 40 reps
Pullups, 40 reps
Do it in order.
Thought it might be a "fun" addition to the WOD.
i think the people who are posting that testing should have been a suprise are crazy... think about all the crazy stuff you hear about crossfit already can you imagine if the winner of the most watched crossfit event tested positive for illegal substances... i hope that doesn't happen i feel it would kill any growth of our "sport"
Steroid testing is great news. Kick em all out - those who use steroids to gain an unfair competitive edge - for a minimum of 2 years.
The next evolution for the CF games has got to be age classes.
I'm currently 48 and have been CFing for about a year and a half.
I'll turn 50 in an additional year and a half.
There really ought to be age classes for the games so that we over the age of 40, 50, and even 60 and above have a competitive reason to compete.
How about the rest of you CF'ers? What say ye?
I'd love to hear your opinions on this topic.
pull-up wall ball wod from other day
#92, Marq, writes,
"Wouldn't testing be more effective if it was announced the morning of the Games. I think testing was announced so early to ensure that anyone who is juicing will be able to hide it or not show in order for CrossFit to protect themselves."
Assuming (but not agreeing) that this announcement will allow steroid users the possibility of discontinuing use, passing the test, and subsequently winning, so what? If the test were made a surprise this year, it surely wouldn't be a surprise next year.
At this point, no one can argue that CrossFit has not moved faster than has any other sport in its effort to discourage the use of steroids.
And for those who are into conspiracy theories, perhaps it is worth considering the possibility that it is the long-time traditional CrossFitters who are actually the least likely to be affected by testing.
What is the criteria for what is considered natural or performance enhancing? That is to mean what should be the criteria, not what the FDA or IOC or any other institution says it is. Not just a list of substances but a list of criteria in order to grade substances.
Holden...what? It is listed very clearly by the IOC why those are considered performance enhancing. Most agencies adopt the IOC list because of the reasoning behind the substances on the list.
My wife and I commit to the 40-Day Challenge! Beginning today!
I'm 39. No weight/age classes. I am for noting everyone's age at The Qualifiers so I know how many youngsters I beat.
Well put Hari. bingo should take note.
I can't help but roll my eyes at the self righteous losers who would attach a moral value to steroid use.
There's no problem with CrossFit testing their athletes if they want to (I'm all for it), although a phrase like "Breaking Records Legally" has me rolling my eyes at them too.
"Breaking Records Naturally" would describe the situation more accurately.
i take this opportunity to thank the actual rest day itself for being so f@ckin' great to me!
I've been doing this for at least a month or 2 and every day still i'm sore in very strange and mysterious places (not too strange and mysterious though mind you) so much that i've long since quit trying to figure out which exercise when caused what soreness how.
EAT GOOD FOOD AND RELAX!! YEAH! I LOVE YOU REST DAY!!
Great video!! Shane is an incredible athlete, coach and all around great dude.
Coach, thanks for keeping out sport legit.
Made up yesterdays wod, 4 rounds rx'd I should never train on a day off... almost had 5.
= 4 rounds + 5 HSPU+ 1 BP
It was not a wod that left me breathless, but one that my arms were not working ;) BP have been more challenging lately than usual.
After I chose to do 85# thrusters on the last wod, and then in yoga we did 108 sun salutations, my shoulders have not been quite the same ;)
Funny lil story though. I was warming up and this guy stops me and was like- "So are you fighting tonight??" I very naive me, was like...fighting? Fighting who? Me? Tonight? What?? Then I thought he meant watching it. Since this whole analog/digital switchover, even with these fine $50 converter boxes all I see is black, so I am way behind on news, tv, or anything and thought some big fight must be on tv tonight or something. So I was like "Nooooo....??"
He said, "Well, there is this big rumor you are are a fighter. I laughed and said no...then I said, well, maybe this is a good rumor to have! Ha ha ha. Before the last winter olympics, they all thought I was training for them.
Priceless moments at the Y. I will keep them wondering ;)
I posted earlier gloriously singing my praise for rest day but alas, my vigorous animation in exuberantly and repeatedly expressing my love for rest and relaxation persuaded me to use too many exclamation points or to administer such overzealous expressions of gratitude that the spam filter was utterly shocked and confused, resulting in my post of love being rejected.
I ALWAYS note Hari's post. However, I fail to see how his thoughts are all that very different from what I have written. Perhaps you would help me?
#114, CrossFitter, writes,
"There really ought to be age classes for the games so that we over the age of 40, 50, and even 60 and above have a competitive reason to compete."
My instinct is that this is coming. CrossFit is refining its definition of fitness to incorporate age.
If someone were to ask me how to take an incremental step, I might suggest requiring the affiliate teams at the Games to include members in several distinct age categories.
5K. Nice, strong, easy run.
The Everett food diary video is screwed up. It has a link to a PDF instead of video.
I really need to work on my leg flexibility. Anybody got a good video that can work all the kinks out?
Did CFE workout on rest day. 2 miles in 14:31. Not great, but progress toward my goals.
Bingo - I concur about Hari's thoughts. I think someone is misunderstanding. Hari also echoes my thoughts, as well, that CF is only about 100 years ahead of other major sports in dope testing.
note to 300 pounds and juiced to the gills --- "breaking records legally" is still plenty accurate. Last I checked steriods are illegal. so maybe the best phras would be "break records legally and naturally."
RE to #129:
Daniel, go to your nearest library and see if they have a copy of "Denise Austin's Stretch & Flex" on VHS, circa 1988, or look on eBay. It's one of the best ways to spend 30 minutes on body maintenance.
No, I'm not kidding.
Bingo, open a prisoner tonight, forgot how nice it was.
No musings from me, I'll let you take care of that.
Chilled Dubeouf Beaujolais tonight...low-brow, simple, and very nice.
Actually most sports and the IOC adopt the list from the world anti-doping code from the World Anti-Doping Agency. The criteria for being put on the prohibited list is on page 32 of the code. http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/code_v2009_En.pdf
The criteria, though, is very open. Also, is crossfit going to adopt this prohibited list or just steroids as stated on the site. Have the athletes involved been informed of what substances are prohibited?
CF games are now three years old. Drug testing has arrived. Those who use performance enhancing drugs will need to make some adjustments.
I support drug testing our CF athletes. It may deter some from using them, which would be a very wise and healthy decision.
Living a long and HEALTHY life drug free, may prove to be more pleasurable then putting forth you best game now drug assisted.
See ya all at the games. : )
#108 jake and #115 nadia:
Well done, but make sure to post your results on the WOD day comments so you have a compare to for reference next time-
Coach et al,
Great call on the screening of the competitors. The detractors above have obviously missed the wisdom of the way you have developed and implemented all of the CrossFit endeavors to date. You are a pioneer and pioneers were always questioned by those who never ventured beyond the safety of their own backyard.
I like Hari's comment above re: age classes, but I'd be for developing a "CrossFit Handicap", since its obvious I need one some days. LOL
Is Sunday (today) a Rest day too? I'm a newbor at CF and was already looking forward to today's WOD.. Happy Father's day to all the dads here.. Btw, what's a good app to record my WOD results?
About time! Glad to see this! Only wish it had been done at the regional qualifiers!
Level playing field..
I did the M- 22 challenge today. My time was 1 hour 32 min. The race was a 17 mile bike ride, then a two mile run that included a sand dune clime, fallowed by a one mile kayak.
You know, I have been reading today's discussion, and well, I don't find people's comments unsettling in the least. Great discussion everyone. IMO, I think it's a shame that testing has to be done at all, but if it improves the image and increases the positive example that's already available in CrossFit, well why the crap not?
Some say too little too late, well, matters. Popping people with a surprise, when the games are VOLUNTARY and no one's getting paid as a professional athlete to participate, well crap, it's ridiculous to consider testing all the time, at regionals, at home, where ever. Games testing is good enough. Sure, go ahead and be a doubting Thomas and consider the nefarious, but give Coach Glassman and his support unit the benefit of the doubt; he's earned it, don't you think?
Real concerns though; what's being looked for? Is taking benedril (sp?)or an allergy medicine going to red flag a kid who has traveled from across the country, or God forbid, from another country? How about some college kid that still bangs the bong every once in a while? How about boozing up? Post workout beers are good here and there, and that's recovery time... In other words, performance enhancers or substance use, or both?
But all craziness aside, I can't wait to see the results, videos, everything! I have two good friends (who are damned good men) heading out west to participate in the games, and I sincerely wish I could go, but my boy's not old enough to travel. So, I'll stay home and cover coaching spots from our crew who's heading out with them.
Good luck to everyone! Have a great game, and NO INJURIES or at least minor ones.
Too bad about caving on the issue of steroids. The testing regimes in place, which provide Xfit with its models, are ineffective, encourage deeper levels of "cheating" to avoid the tests, require because of these failures ever more intrusive testing measures, and in the final irony, destroy the reputation of the sport using the testing, rather than saving it. Why? Because the more effective the testing regime, the more "cheaters" they'll find. That will become the story that gets covered, and that will put paid to the reputation of the sport. Witness: The Tour de France.
The antagonism to steroids is driven by a confluence of ugly interest groups: ambitious politicians looking for a no-lose cause to ventilate about---witness the absurd baseball hearings; world governing bodies looking to extend their control of athletes down to the minutiae of their lives; scientifically illiterate sports journalists---most of whom couldn't even name a steroid other than B Bond's 'the clear'---looking for a story to cover with all the puke-making mythologizing language sport journos so love to use; and above all, the nanny public health precautionary principle totalitarian worry-warts who impose their own fear of risk---the kind of fear appropriate to mothers of young children and no-one else---on sports where risk is an inherent part of the game.
Steroid testing is all about PR, image, and has nothing to do with levelling playing fields or helping the health of athletes. That Crossfit, so independent, so reality-based and experimentally minded, should give in to the irrational, neurotic, ooga-booga, ritual impurity-obsessed, mumbo-jumbo magic thinking of the mass culture and media about steroids---drugs like any others, physical chemical substances, dammit!---that Crossfit, of all communities, should give in to the superstition, the scientific illiteracy, the back-of-the-brain stuff we should have left behind in the Enlightenment, well, that's just one great big disappointment.
Coach has spoken on this topic in the comments before.
If you've the motivation you can go back and find his commetns on the topic. He is very educated and knowledgable on the topic.
Those of you suggesting IOC standards would be wise to hunt back to get his musing on it also.
I'd find it but haven't the time.
#146, Patrick H, writes,
"The testing regimes in place . . . in the final irony, destroy the reputation of the sport using the testing, rather than saving it. Why? Because the more effective the testing regime, the more 'cheaters' they'll find."
By this line of reasoning it would be best not to examine this line of reasoning, because doing so might destroy this reputation of this forum.
#148 Hari, misses the point.
The media don't cover stories that don't involve badness and cheating and general ugliness. If it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead. The Tour's rep has been destroyed by the news coverage of the positive tests, not the rumors. Imagine if Lance A was found definitively to have used. The effect on the Tour would be far more disastrous than the ongoing never-ending rumour-mongering surrounding Lance and his "vitamin" intake habits, or the sotto voce mutterings of his competitors. No positive tests is just not news.
Testing will simply bring all that poisonous dynamic into Crossfit. Athletes will learn how to cheat, since testing will give them an incentive to do so. And most sadly, they will learn how to lie. One of the most depressing spectacles in sports today is seeing athletes lying lying lying through their teeth to protect their reputations from being destroyed for using something no more magically evil or malignant than any other chemical.
Look at baseball. By making steroid use an issue, by not having the stones to just ignore the media and political hysteria on the issue, baseball has written a great big black mark right across its own face. And none of that was necessary. Just as baseball ignored amphetamine use, drunkenness, and even the pitching of a no-hitter by a pitcher wired on LSD, and survived to tell the tale, they would have weathered the storm over performance enhancing drugs.
By following baseball's path, Crossfit is opening itself to a moral argument whose premises are written by the ambitious, the unprincipled, the hungry for attention, and the neurotically risk-averse. Today's nanny state hypocrites are going to see their own hypocrisy, irrationality, double and triple standards, and above all lying lying lying infect Crossfit. And that's just not good. How could it be?
Intelligent disagreement is always welcome, and I wish you, Hari, had put more effort into your response.
This decision will hurt Crossfit in the long run. And it won't buy it any good PR. Any more than it has baseball or the Tour de France. The media/political beast is a bottomless maw, and you will never ever be able to satisfy its demands. You can't prove a negative, and you will never be able to prove through any testing regime that your sport is clean. All you will show is that "clean" is an issue.
Don't feed the beast. Hari, didn't you even read the suggestions for random surprise testing? That's where this will lead. Don't feed the beast. It will never be satisfied. Let it starve.
Don't have such a low opinion of your fellow competitive CrossFit athletes. To say we should not have drug testing because it will cause some athletes to, "learn how to cheat," or "learn how to lie," is ludicrous!
People do not become cheaters or tell lies because there are standards, they do so because that is who they are to begin with. People either do what is right and conform themselves to the rules, or they do not. It has absolutely nothing to do with the rules, but everything to do with the individual.
Expose those who are so selfish and bent on winning, that they would attempt to walk right over their fellow athlete through the use of performance enhancing drugs. In the end, those who compete naturally will be the real winners, and those who use illegal performance enhancing drugs will be the biggest losers.
I get the impression your self esteem is so high that you fully expect us to join us in your "haute ennui". Au contraire. Your presupposition--that people are cheating--is precisely that. You have--how much?--oh yes, ZERO evidence tha any CrossFitter, anywhere, is cheating.
Let us suppose, then, that no one is cheating. This is quite possible, and quite congruent with the CrossFit culture which is so attractive to many of us. Where does that leave your reasoning? Oh, you didn't get off home plate. 3 strikes. So sorry. It wasn't lack of steroids, my friend, it was lack of talent.
Let us then suppose that someone somewhere is cheating. Let us suppose that no one uses within the last three weeks prior to the competition. This means, as I understand it (and I really am no expert, but presume 3 weeks is enough for Goldenseal or whatever the hell people use), that no one will be caught. If no one is caught, where does this leave your reasoning? Oi: .000 is not a very good average, is it?
Finally, let us suppose that someone is caught at some point. Your supposition is that all of us are going to collectively shriek, scream "OH MY" and run off into the bushes, due the horror, the HORROR, of this event. All of us, self evidently, will lose all of our pie eyed, naive belief that ALL CrossFitters, if they don't walk on water, at least can turn water into wine.
If this doesn't happen, then, again, your logic is flawed.
Please understand: there is no money--to the extent of my knowledge--in this competition. The Tour de France is worth millions. Moreover, it makes sense to cheat DURING the Tour, since drugs like Testosterone help massively with recovery.
I will join you in agreeing you have a talent for florid prose. Perhaps you have a future writing Romance novels. They seem to sell well in my local bookstore.
#149, Patrick H, writes,
". . . I wish you, Hari, had put more effort into your response."
Fair enough. Let me spell it out:
Managers do things right. Leaders do the right things.
Your argument is that CrossFit should concentrate on doing things right (which you see as minimizing adverse publicity). Coach could give a damn. He is interested in doing the right thing, and he has. Not the perfect thing, but the right thing.
The benefit of steroid testing is not simply reducing the advantage gained by steroid users; it also reduces the pressure on those who prefer to remain clean to do so. This is the right thing to do for the CrossFit, and Coach has done it.
Barry, what a disappointing, worthless response. You can do better, or at least I hope you can.
Hari, thanks for the measured and intelligent response to my comment.
My point is not that minimizing adverse publicity should be a goal of Crossfit. It is that the media will make every effort to maximize adverse publicity. That's the heart of their business model.
Consider the disgraceful performance of the media in associating Crossfit with rhabdo. Crossfit is no more, and indeed often less, likely to cause rhabdo than many other sports. But Crossfit did "the right thing" by pointing to the possibility of rhabdo, and of its dangers. Well done!
How did the media respond? By pairing Crossfit with rhabdo so often that the two have become fused in a kind of Pavlovian union.
When Crossfit puts in testing, it will simply signal to the media that they now have another opportunity to smear Crossfit, which they will describe as yet another sport in which "drugs" are being used. After all, why have testing if nobody uses them? And God help Crossfit if any positive tests show up! Those will be covered, and not the hundreds or thousands of Crossfitters who don't use and who have negative tests.
Olympic lifting is a powerful and beautiful sport, and is rightly respected, even worshipped, here at Crossfit. Steroid use is widespread in the sport, and there have been many incidents of athletes testing positive and being expelled from the Olympics and other events. If the public has any awareness of weightlifting as a sport, do you think it has not been tainted by the coverage, not of rumours of use, but of positive tests?
The fact is, that if the Games go wide, which I think they will, then it won't matter how much money is involved. There's no money in Oly lifting either. The Games will attract athletes for the same reason Oly lifting does: competition, victory, glory, all that stuff. If Crossfit puts in a testing regime, that will just signal to those athletes that steroids are effective in Crossfit, and they'll find a way to use them.
And then the sad litany of dysfunction will infect Crossfit just as it has all other sports that try to solve the problem of steroid use by testing regimes: lying, cheating, finger-pointing, rumour-mongering, and yes, negative attention from the media.
Crossfit prides itself on being reality-based. Well, the reality of testing in sports is that is has been a disaster. It saddens me to see Crossfit making the same mistake that has so damaged other sports.
And Barry, learn to read. I haven't accused anyone in Crossfit of "cheating", especially since there was until recently no testing for steroid use, and therefore no cheating in the first place.
Crossfit will be damaged by a testing regime. Look at how people are already demanding out-of-competition testing. This is the same kind of progression of intrusiveness that an inept ineffective arbitrary process requires: its inevitable failures will result in calls for its extension, not its repeal.
It saddens me to see Crossfit going this way.
The media has not fused CrossFit with rhabdo: you have. With one or two exceptions, virtually every newspaper article I have read has been
strongly positive. By now, this is in the 10-15 range.
What you apparently fail to realize is that I am a student of propaganda. In fact, I was just now reading Jacques Ellul's excellent work on the subject.
I see what you are doing: you are trying to instill fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and to do it in a passive-aggressive voice, which puts all of the concerns, all of the fear and anxiety, in OTHER people. What will people say, you ask? Is it not doom, now? Was this not an unwise decision by Coach? Can we still trust him? Is there anything left that is special about CrossFit?
You are clever, but not clever enough.
It's time--past time--for prime time media attention to be paid to CrossFit. It has appeal on many levels, and would draw viewers. Yet, it has the unfortunate trait of retaining an interest in politics; every fourth day, to be sure, but left wing cranks spouting their agitprop simply can't survive here, and that is troubling for left wing cranks. Particularly, it is troubling since many readers are members of the military, and there are only so many who will retain a willingness to believe in Noam Chomsky when his ilk are so roundly and consistently stomped here, using no tools but facts and logic.
You have done nothing but paint a scenario in which you hope people will share your own distaste for CrossFit, and you have done it posing as a supporter.
I will add, at the risk of stating the stunningly obvious: everyone who does CrossFit understands it is a strength sport, and that steroids build strength. No cat is let out of the bag by testing. We are merely taking the obvious step of taking basic precautions against use. You seem to think if we don't test, then no one will use. Or that it doesn't matter, since we receive no bad publicity. Or that testing somehow causes little lightbulbs to go off, and people who have never thought of using, decided to do so.
By your logic, either no sport anywhere should test for drugs, lest positives corrupt it, or no sports should be done at all.
My vote is for common sense. Test at the Games.
Barry you need to reread your Ellul. You see nothing of what I'm trying to do because you can't be bothered to read what I wrote.
I don't claim that if Crossfit doesn't test no one will use. I claim that testing will not prevent anyone who wishes to use from doing so. Can you point to any testing regime that has prevented use? Crossfit claims to be reality-based. I believe it to be so. You, however, don't seem to care that everything you're defending has been tried already and failed miserably to provide the protection you claim it does. Doesn't it (oh why doesn't it?) bother you or anyone else here that testing doesn't work? Insanity is repeating the same action expecting a different result. Folly is repeating someone else's mistakes and expecting something different to happen. You are a defender of folly.
As for publicity, I claim only that you will receive more bad publicity if you put in an effective testing regime because the positive tests will be the only thing covered by the media.
As for my logic, it is the history of testing and its overwhelming failure that causes me to oppose it. I make no suggestions that no sport should test, only that Crossfit should think very carefully before putting in place a proven failed policy.
I am at a loss as to what point you're trying to make about "passive-aggressive", "propaganda", Noam Chomsky and left-wing zealots and all the other pointless bloviating you've injected. I've stated my objections to testing clearly and straightforwardly--passive-aggressive be damned. You, however, have engaged in repeated ad hominem attacks, changed the subject, put words in my mouth and generally made a prize fool, and a dishonest one, of yourself.
And please don't write at me juvenile nonsense like "What you apparently fail to realize is that I am a student of propaganda". What you apparently fail to realize is you sound like a teenager playing a Grade B movie villain. Jeebus, man, I was half expecting you to twirl your mustache at me and chortle something in a fake Eurasian accent.
Barry, I've tried to make some points, and you have just botched the whole show. You haven't come up with a single intelligent response, not one. Complete epic fail.
Crossfit is making a terrible mistake. The bigger it gets, the bigger the Games get, the worse the mistake will become over the years. Crossfit is buying a moment's peace today by capitulating to the media hysteria about steroids. Well, it will get that moment of peace...now.
The war part will come later.
Patrick Henry--is that it?
BS. No one here is arguing that testing is the same as eradicating use. What we are saying is that in a 2 day set of contests, involving 3 very arduous events, it would be really, really useful to boosted red blood cell counts, and--even more--testosterone. It would aid recovery immensely, IF IT WAS IN THEIR BLOOD WHILE COMPETING. Testing largely makes this impossible. Certainly it mutes the extent of the possibility of cheating.
Why is this useful? Well, say someone absolutely smashes all the records. Let's further suppose they weren't that good last year. Is it unreasonable to suppose the very bad blood you claim you fear would not come out then, absent at least a passable effort to regulate things?
The logic of your case is this: IF drugs can be abused to convey a competitive advantage, and IF not all users can be caught, THEN no testing should be done.
This is silly. Do you seriously want to argue that testing does not affect decision patterns?
Should we abolish all testing in the Tour de France, O-lifting meets, and everywhere else? Should we stop testing race horses, and gymnasts, and shooters? Is it not the case that people DO get caught cheating, and that--absent evidence to the contrary, it is quite possible that those who don't get caught, are quite simply innocent?
You also want to claim that lack of testing necessarily prevents conflict. This is silly, because lack of testing is equally likely to INVITE conflict. Surely it is obvious that one year the contest could end in whispers and accusations?
You write well, and your seeming inability to draw logical conclusions, in combination with that, puzzles me.
My second hypothesis, then, is that you have personal experience with this topic, and retain some sense of bitterness which you are expressing here.
Were or are you a competitive athlete in a sport where drugs provide an advantage?
This naivety is dissapointing. Thinking the quest for victory will not drive some to unethical behaviour is foolish.
A man much wiser than me once said...
"Men will die for points".
wall ball 20 10 11 41
SDHP 23 17 16 56
Box jump 20 24 23 67
Push press 17 19 13 49
Row (cal) 15 14 11 40
Total 95 84 74 253
Great class, as expected