Just ran my firs half marathone ever 1:47:36
I feel like s***. i thought i will take like 2:11 minutes but finished so much faster, i am so proud of myself. God bless crossfit.

Hurry up and join the RRG people! If you haven't signed up yet, how about explaining why? What questions do you have?

200 grand in 4 days.

LET's DO IT!!

3....2...1....GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. A David Brooks Op-Ed piece on the CrossFit main site. Perhaps the end really is near. That's an interesting article. It makes the argument that a properly designed school curriculum can negate some problems at home. I wonder how applicable that finding would be to a wider sample size? I also wonder how much more a charter school spends per student than a regular public school?

The NYT kind of admitting that bureaucracies are ineffective? Wow, maybe there is hope for America.

Happy rest day everyone :) Enjoy!

And for all my Midwest Qualifier people...only 5 days!!! Are you nervous? I'm nervous lol

Just got home from my first level 1 cert. and it was amazing! Thanks to all the trainers you were all great, and it was a great experience! I LOVE CROSSFIT!!

Just attended the Level 1 Cert in Golden. Thank you to all the great instructors and participants for making it a great weekend. The instruction was awesome and everybody there was a true professional. I had the pleasure of watching some of the beasts workout Sat. during my lunch. Speal was alright. I think he did about 100 deadlifts, hang cleans and push jerks with something that was pretty close to his bodyweight and maybe dropped the bar twice. Not bad. Thanks to Todd, Boz, Rach, Miranda, Tyson, Mark, John, Chris, and anyone I forgot. Had a great time and took a lot of valuable info away from it that I will be using for myself and anyone I may train. Good luck in your Rocky Mt. regional Mark and John, you guys will perform well!

Rest Day!

Took Sunday off after two brutal days of mountain biking. Race next weekend. Crossfit is my secret weapon.

My 21-15-9.com WoD Log
------------------------------
http://www.21-15-9.com/users/1

I attended the Level I cert in Golden this weekend. I have say thanks to all the instructors...YOU WERE ALL AWESOME. I learned a ton and hope to be able to walk tomorrow and do our "Olympic Lift Total" or CFT with the snatch and cleans tomorrow. Hopefully what I learned this weekend will help with that. I plan to pass along any assistance I can at the box as long as my trainer is OK with it. I have a long way to go, but at least I don't feel that sense that I will never make the BAD A** level anymore.

Rest Day!

Took Sunday off after two brutal days of mountain biking. Race next weekend. Crossfit has been my secret weapon when it comes to racing. I've spent less time training on bike (indoor spinning in the winter, for example) but I'm faster and stronger than ever.

My 21-15-9.com WoD Log
------------------------------
http://www.21-15-9.com/users/1

Question about form in the video:

Were Candance's elbows to far forward/horizontal? A lot of clips show people going overhead like that, but Tami had her elbows vertical under the bar. Is Tami' way more effective or is just a preference thing?

Cert in West Palm Beach at BGI rocked!

I'm sure they all do, but being there makes it all real. A singularly great event combining effective transfer of knowledge, humor and practical application in the best and most intense crowd this side of the Crossfit games! Thanks to our host BGIFit (awesome faciity lacking only outdoor air conditioning)and the trainers who ran such a professional and smooth event. Worth twice the price (but don't raise the price Coach, I'll spend it at another cert for sure!) Since it's Mother's Day, thanks to Mother Natue who had the foresight to make Florida pancake flat so the running was merciful. Special shout out to Jennifer for the extra help with my Push Presses and for the tough love on the Push-up WOD, to Chuck for the inspirational lectures, attitude and performances and of course to Andy who kept the whole show moving. The two days flew by, except for the time spent in the WODs.

Thanks!

Posterboy

No rest for me - doing a hybrid of the last two days

Back Squat x 5
Run 800m
Back Squat x 5
Run 800m
Back Squat x 5
Run 800m
Back Squat x 5
Run 800m
Back Squat x 5

Weight at 100kgs. legs should be toast

Happy rest day people. Big hi to the FRAT

Thanks Rookie. I ran the 800s this morning and did the squats tonight. My wife asked me if I was suppose to do both at the same time.
I said absolutely not. and then I added under my breath unless you are some kinda stud like Rookie or herm.

#5 Eric:

You should have the butterflies, that's a good thing :-) Channel all that nervous energy into intensity and hit those wods with everything you've got!

Give em' hell brother.

Never Quit!

Great squat instruction Pat, I like your style of coaching.

Keep up the strong work and best of luck at the Games.

#10 Matt_in_Oz

Elbows high and upper arms horizontal locks up the bar more solidly in the rack position. A solid platform for the dip-drive makes a huge difference.

In the video as Tamra drove upward her elbows dropped a little - this absorbs some of the upward driving force and would take more absolute strength for the same jerk weight.

Experiment between the two styles. Once you have the transition down pat I find it's night and day the difference in the numbers.

tough workout 19:40. cant feel my legs

jakers - cheers bro. no stud here though. just playing catchup

But you have your Mojo back?
That's the important part.

mojo intact. fire back in the belly. giddy up.

cynthia - finally we get to meet

Tamara,

Awesome performance! Great to see you at the Level 2 Cert... Peace! Erik

5/10/2009
back squat x 5:
135lbs, 185lbs
205lbs, 225lbs, 235lbs, 240lbs, 240lbs
205lbs, 185lbs

previous:
225lbs 2/3/2009
225lbs 12/26/2008
230lbs 11/15/2008

Thanks to all the coaches at the West Palm Beach Level 1 Cert. this weekend...You guys were absolutely incredible and I am so thankful to have Crossfit in my life..Again, incredible Cert. in WPB,FL. this weekend...Turbo

Cert in Golden was out-freakin'-standing. No complaints, however, one suggestion: create class outlines that more closely mirror the lectures. Content was phenomenal (as expected) and kudos to all instructors and coaches...great pacing and delivery during the lectures and motivating practical application. Attending this was a dream come true, made even more so when the gods smiled upon me as I was flanked by two angels during the class pic. Best take-away: I really need to work on my stripper dead-lifts.

Interesting article. Schools are in need of serious work. I teach 100-level college math classes and occasionally tutor high school students. The education system has failed them, at least in mathematics. Most of the 8th graders I've tutored can't answer simple questions like "what's 9 divided by 3"... something is wrong there.

I had the privilege of being Tamara's judge in the C&J 2008 Games. What a fine young woman and what a strong athlete.

Best of luck to both of you this summer in Aromas.

NICE to see HARLEM GET SOME NOTEWORTHY MENTION!!!!! WE ARE HERE!!!! BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR CROSSFIT IN HARLEM

sh-press 5x 62,5 kg
wod: 3 rounds of:
- 40mtr lunges
- 20x 20kg KB-snatch
- 10x tire-flip
time:9:00 min

Have fun, Johan

A previous commenter remarked how the school has found a way to negate problems in the childrens' homes, it seems this is done by removing the children from their homes. To wit: children a grade level too low spend twice as much time in school and those at grade level spend 50% more time in school. Though, for many children, being removed from their home life is exactly what they need.

Wait; paying attention to a student's behavior and attitude can dramatically impact his/her performance? It's a miracle!

"Some experts, mostly surrounding the education establishment, argue that schools alone can’t produce big changes. The problems are in society, and you have to work on broader issues like economic inequality." These so-called "experts" have overseen DECADES of failure. I think their only realy expertise is in perpetuating their power-base.

Tom C, #3,

Perhaps you are right. The NY Times offering something of value could we be a sign that the end is nigh. :)

A number of athletes new to Crossfit kicked ass in the various regional qualifiers.

Makes me wonder what their pre-Crossfit training programs looked like...

Maybe years of Crossfit isn't the best route to being an outstanding Crossfitter.

#31:

...or, Crossfit is now attracting athletes with greater natural athletic talent who are fascinatied by what Crossfit might bring them. They believe that the "traditional" fitness strategem has been maxed out for them and are just now discovering Crossfit. We are now poised to see phenomenal athletic achievements from these newcomers who are now being exposed to Crossfit.

Dude, where does all this negative spin come from? Why take the low road? Why are you even here?

to comment #31:

I often think about the "chicken and the egg" approach - does crossfit "make" the fittest or do some of the fittest get drawn to crossfit and find success?

I think the latter is more true. I recently pb'd on fran after following a more traditional running and weight training program (not having crossfitted in about 5 months)... in my mind, a program that is based around more scheduled progression in weights and cardio components will produce superior results...

Thank you BGI South and CrossFit! Great WPB CERT!

Thank you so much for changing my entire perspective on...well...everything! The trainers were absolutely amazing, very inspirational and experts in their fields. Thank you especially to Jon, Chuck, J-Mac, Dana, Todd and about six others for the "help" on push ups. I thought the lectures were very well organized and presented with enough mix of science and common sense, especially the nutrition and threshold training segments. The WODs were grueling, the intensity was through the roof, and oh yeah, it was about 100 degrees outside. Thanks so much for a great weekend.

cb#33

It would be interesting to do a couple of other CF benchmark WOD's in the next little bit and see where you are with them, too. Then a little experiment, returning to some form of CF for 5 months and re-visiting the benchmark WOD's for comparison.

Most CF'ers would predict that you would do better overall after the CF training, but who knows? I think it would be a really interesting and really cool trial. My bet is that Coach would also find it equally interesting, and if you did better after your personal program he'd be on the phone asking how.

Seriously, no digs here at all. That would be an interesting trial.

800 meter run 4 Rounds - 3:35 - 3:33 - 3:33 - 3:31

I developed a simple heuristic some time ago with respect to poverty, to whit: you can't solve a qualitative problem with quantitative solutions.

The problem in the cities is kids get kicked early, hard, and often. This means that when you get to school, learning is the last thing you have on your mind.

However, the only way to reverse this, is to in effect kick kids in the right direction. The problem is not that more money needs to be spent, per se, per kid. It means that they need to be taught, in an effective way, first and foremost self respect.

Now, the Self Esteem movement took off in California in the 70's, and it basically divorced praise from achievement. The net effect, in my view and many other psychologists who have studied this, has been a collective LOSS in self esteem. If you have never faced a hard challenge and kept fighting, then you and everyone else knows it. Praising for nothing does no good. It is, in fact, counterproductive.

Nobody disputes these kids have a tougher hill to climb, but it is what it is. Wishful thinking, and whining won't make it other than it is.

What these schools seem to be demonstrating works is that if you place high demands on kids, they will respond. If you treat them like they CAN perform, then they do. Nothing is more demoralizing than the condescension of excessive pity. Nothing is more energizing than a clear vision, communicated well and consistently, that shows a positive future.

Compassion absent wisdom is a vice, not a virtue.

five mile run............

#32 – bingo

Negative spin? Low road? Jwolfram raises a perfectly valid point, and one which I’m sure has occurred to many thoughtful observers of the Crossfit phenomenon. It certainly has to me. Maybe the problem is that you tend to have a knee-jerk reaction to anything that sounds remotely critical of CF or Coach. The fact is that we all have a lot to learn over the next several years (at least) about what it takes to excel at something like the CF Games. And yes, what it takes may not be what we think of now as “Crossfit.”

Your post in #35 is a reasonable one, and is in response to really the same point! Did jwolfram kick your dog or something? Is he an NMD?

Barry Cooper has it right. Instill discipline, hard work and self esteem into our youth especially from low income areas and watch them excel. While I do not have academic studies to back this up, I have found this to be true while running Steve's Club.

The recipe is simple: give these young boys and girls attention, respect, a role, a vision, hope for a good future, high standards and most importantly something they feel a part of that is larger than themselves (CROSSFIT) and WHOA!! stand back and watch the changes.

By the way, I'm in no means trying to tout my own horn or club here, just validating the article based on my own experience.

I really hope someday we can bring CrossFit to more inner cities across America. What CrossFit teaches goes beyond fitness.

#39 Lewis Dunn:

"Did jwolfram kick you dog or somehing? Is he an NMD?"

Good stuff! I agree that both jwolfram and cb offer comments on the same general theme. I observe a qualitative difference in their tone and approach. YMMV on that one. My post now at #35 adequately rebuts your "concern" that I might not be capable of objective thought WRT criticisms of CF.

If you have paid even the smallest bit of attention to my comments over the last couple of years (and I readily admit that there is really no reason why you, or anyone, should) you will see a rather relentless theme of kindness and positivity. I am increasingly disturbed by the negative slant of comments; the choice to emphasize the negative rather than the positive; the tendency to see the bad possibilities rather than the good. The intuition of mal-intent on the part of Crossfit and Crossfitters as the "first shot across the bow."

I am simply tired of that, and will likely comment on that.

Again, YMMV.

Just did the Level 1 Cert in Golden, it was Awesome, and worth every penny! Although I may have problems walking up and down stairs for the next couple of days! To say I learned some new techniques and teaching progression is an understatement. The Instructors all did absolute outstanding job! Their professionalism and candor was truly inspiring. The only improvement I would add is when you begin a period of instruction give the corresponding page number in the instructor guide so we can follow along. Miranda great job on the demos your technique was flawless, Tyson I will catch up with you at 801 next week, Boz sorry you pussed out of dinner it was a great time you missed the bus, coming to Colorado and not seeing the mountains is criminal!! Todd your a great guy I look forward to working with you...is 90 schilling your new Favorite? Rach you and I have an appointment at hole in the wall in the near future. John, I will try not to waste so much energy in the future. Nicole, thanks for being there to make me remember why I love crossfit.

Eric, we have to find a way to meet while there. Butterflies? Every day! Had the same experience last year for the Games, but couldn't find a good way to harness the energy - come event time, I was emotionally flat.

Dorky as it sounds - this article brought a tear to my eye. Hope for the seemingly hopeless ... let's hope they don't incorporate this school into the government. Paul

Had a great time at the Level I cert. Coaches did a great job explaining the material. They are some of the best in the game. Glad to meet all who attended and look forward to seeing them again. Superior job coaches!!!

On the training issue, it would seem fairly simple to me to explain why people new to CrossFit do well: they are great athletes, who have been training hard in a discipline which gave them a good base.

Let us posit a top 10% of athletes, people who are quick, motivated, agile, and tough. With x amount of training, they get Y amount of results. Posit a middle 10%. With x amount of training, they get Y-minus-something results.

In general, the people who are at the top of their game--whatever their game is--are NOT going to be focusing on CrossFit. By this, I mean serious college athletes, and of course professional athletes.

There are no scholarships for CrossFit. There is no massive pot of money for the winner. So most of us who do it--your standard, run of the mill CrossFitter--is either a former athlete who is just trying to stave off the ravages of age, or someone who needs fitness for their job, like Firemen, LEO's, and of course Military members.

But starting out elite is not a part of it. And "forging elite fitness" has to be understood in a relative way. We are not comparing ourselves to the best natural athletes out there. We are comparing ourselves to people like us, who are using other methods. And I think that comparison is perfectly valid.

Your average run 3x/lift 3x athlete will likely beat many of us in running. But we will beat them in everything else.

I am coaching soccer currently. The reason for this is that the school places no emphasis on soccer. Otherwise, I wouldn't be the coach, since my record is terrible.

I don't get the top athletes. I get kids who don't want to play baseball, but still want to do something. The schools we play get the pick of the best athletes they have, as far as I can tell.

My coaching skills are tenuous at best. I didn't play a lot of soccer. But looking at the size and speed of the kids we are facing, I feel like my input, if I were the best of the best, would only improve our results marginally.

The best wines start in the vineyard, and the best Coaches spend a prodigious amount of time recruiting.

CrossFit as a method is superior, but there is no reason to suppose that we have to this point even begun to attract the best athletes out there. That is a completely discrete question.

Thus, there is no reason to suppose--in fact, it seems silly to suppose--that there is a better way of training for CrossFit than DOING CrossFit.

#41 – bingo

Yes, my mileage does vary. I like that the board, as a whole, sees the negative as well as the positive, the bad possibilities as well as the good. Not “rather than,” but “as well as.” Not very cult-like of me, I know, but I enjoy seeing Crossfit evolve in what I think of as a positive way, and that evolution requires questioning the party line and the status quo. You are simply tired of seeing anything negative. I’m tired of those that want to see anything negative quashed.

Not that you should care in the least, but my concerns about your objectivity are certainly not alleviated when, with regard to the comment in question, you can use the word “mal-intent.” Overkill by a longshot.

And I pay enough attention to notice that your “relentless theme” get tossed out the window a few weeks ago with regard to a naturopath from Tucson. Sad incident. You’re better than that.

#45 – Barry

“Thus, there is no reason to suppose--in fact, it seems silly to suppose--that there is a better way of training for CrossFit than DOING CrossFit.”

As usual, I can’t see where you can make the jump from the rest of your post to “Thus,” but thank goodness the human race has never stopped looking for improvements and alternatives to things that seem to be working okay as is.

Level 1 Cert BGI

Thanks to the cast and crew that made this weekend in West Palm Beach extremely educational, practical, and fun! As a former personal trainer in the globo-gym environment with 4 repeated Nationally Recognized Certifications, this by far has had the largest impact in my ability to teach, correct, and program quality workouts that truly produce quality results - - - for every client... No longer am I keeping my fingers cross and hoping like I used to in the past.

Special thanks to the team of trainers: Chuck, Jenni, Justin (yes SIR!), Mike, John, and Johnny for opening my eyes to what good quality training can and should be!

Todd & Dana - you have a great box at a great location .... I'm so jealous of those huge category 4 hurricane-industrial-strength-fans you have --- they really rocked during the 1st day WOD.

My top 3 most memorable moments:

3) Andy getting my heartrate up in the 1st 5 minutes announcing: "Groups 1 and 3 to the back, we are about to do FRAN..."

2) Chuck demonstrating a common fault with the push-press series (moving out of sequence) and clocking himself on the top of his head with sooo much force that Jenni (the presenter) was truly conscerned he had hurt himself.

1) Our man Tony (who was called up at the very beggining to do tabata air squats....) achieving his first muscleup on the rings....

1) watching a 13 yr old athlete perform 95# thrusters in the day 1 WOD.

1) clapping and cheering for every single person as they finished their first exposure to High Intensity training....

1) admiring the trainers as they demonstrated the practical applications of the Crossfit Method during their greuling 'lunch-time' workout...

I could go on and on...

Thanks again Crossfit!

Does anyone know if we have a Crossfit Kandahar AB, Afghanistan? Heading there next week and was just curious....

cb,

Your dilemma is in large part the fruit of not defining your terms ("fittest"). Once you clear that up you'd more likely be able to answer your own question with but a modicum of empirical evidence and an examination of the CrossFit record.

The question you are trying to ask, or at least should ask, in my opinion, is, "does CrossFit disproportionately attract athletes with inordinate genetic potential, and does that, can that in part, explain the superior fitness of CF'ers?"

Regarding your test: suppose you came from a period of inactivity and did Fran for the first time for a time of, say, 30 minutes. If you were to do nothing but Pilates, and meditate, for 30 days after, you'd find your next to be dramatically improved. If you find a way to do what you're almost claiming, improve CF scores/times absent CF stimulus, I'll help you become rich. You'd have a million dollar concept and I'd embrace your methods, give you ample credit - quite publicly, and we'd have a major evolution of CrossFit.

I'm writing from the morning after the Level 1 Certification in Golden, CO. I'm riding a natural high of excitement and enthusiasm from a great weekend of instruction, skill work and two great workouts!

I learned so many great pointers on form and technique. We were very fortunate to have so many great coaches this weekend - the roster read like a "best of CrossFit" list! In short, it was absolutely FANTASTIC!

Lewis,

I'm sure you're the life of the party at the Cynic's Conventions. You know, the ones where they serve shots of vinegar straight up, and everybody stands around complaining.

Criticism, in itself, is never useful, absent a suggestion as to potential improvements. To claim otherwise is to stand whining up as a civic virtue, which of course many people on one side of the political spectrum like to do.

I will add, that the preceding paragraphs were well reasoned, in my view, and your response consists not in a factual or logical argument, but a simple assertion of opinion.

Everyone can offer up an opinion. What educated, intelligent people do is support and expand them in a way amenable to rational discussion. You have not done that.

I want to give a BIG thanks to Coach Glassman...thanks for Crossfit all the Ecuadorian Crossfitters sends to you our espect and hugs...

Follow the main page works my brother and the Ecuadorians were the only competitors that train bt the main page wods...

WU:
500m row
400m run
20 GHD
20 Back ext.
20 OH Squat
3 sets of box jumps + 5 burpees

WO
20 Squats, no break 140#

AMRAP - 3 minute sets, 3 sets, 1 minute rest in between
5 chest to bar pull-ups
10 Ring Dips
15 Pushups

2 rounds
1 round + 3 RDs
1 round + 5 RDs

Hi Bingo,

Yes that would be an interesting test - I was really intrigued when I PB'd fran (I had expected a drop of 2+ minutes off my previous best but instead improved by 31s. ... 5:50 to 5:19, admittedly not smoking, but not too shabby). I suppose the issue with an experiment like that is that my fitness is constantly evolving... what I need is a twin!

What I found in general is that when doing crossfit (following the main site wod) is that I experienced a huge increase in my general work capacity however I believe that the more steady progressions I utilize in my current routine may be more effective at seeing regular increases in that same work capacity AND specific running and strength fitness.

I also find that the intensity that I like to work at when going through a metcon almost prevents me from doing them too regularly - even 5 minutes of very very intense exercise can be hard to recover from.

Hi Barry #45,

I have to disagree with your comment that "the lift 3x/run 3x athlete will beat a cf'er in running but we will beat them in everything else". It all depends on the nature of that athlete's program content, and how it is tailored to their needs and individual response to exercise. I think cf is a wonderful system with an incomparable balance of quality information, great community, and excellent intrinsic and extrinsic competition/motivation structure. That being said, I cannot accept that the .com wods are the best way to increase fitness for everyone (regardless of the definition of fitness).

I am a lift 4x/run3x guy and I beat my "8month -cf.com self" on one (yes only one) benchmark workout. I would expect that any wod based on running would also be better now. I will try FGB in the near future and probably filthy fifty to take a look as I did those two a few times when fully on the cf.com wods.

Comment #29 by EP.

I think you have it right with the extra time in school and away from their homelife, both help the situation.

To Barry and Steve: I agree to an extent that children need to be instilled with discipline and work ethic and they will thrive, but to do this their entire environment needs to change. And unless students are at school longer, it will be very difficult.

To be truthful, I think the only way the US will fix education is by throwing money it. And that is not to say teachers or administrators should be paid more, but more teachers need to be hired to reduce class sizes, extend the school day, and extend the school year. Those three things have been proven to increase test scores in students.

Sundays back squats but today...

Warm-up: bar x5, 135 x5

As rx'd:
225, 245, 265, 285, 305

cb,

How long did you do CrossFit before you decided to stop?

Just got done with level I cert,and it was amazing!!! 1st muscle up ever and sooo much more!! I just want to try and give something back to the trainers that were all so helpful this weekend and share one of my life mottos with them that I realized in '03 after I was almost killed in a parachute jump.

"The hardest moment of everyday is the first time that you open your eyes in the morning, because without that moment the rest of the day would not be possible, and everything on from there is easy." -Evan Malone

For all Crossfitters who practice functional movements, lets remember that, because that is probably the most important functional movement that everyone does everyday.
Thanks to all the trainers and everyone that participated that was there for the support of all!!!

Awesome women. Candace and Tamara you are amazing and total role models. Thanks for that great video!

Hi Coach,

Thanks for responding to my post - I have a lot of respect for you and everything you have done!

I believe in the same holistic view of fitness as is described in the crossfit system - a balance of the 10 or so varied elements and the ability to perform at high power outputs across (to quote) "wide time and modal domains". I just believe that a more progressive approach to training fitness components will yield better results than the semi-randomness of the crossfit system.

The human organism is just like any other - regular and adaptive progressive overload of the system will produce results. I believe the best way to push progressive overload is to do the same or similar types of exercise regularly for a defined block of training. Constant variation in mode (to me) does not provide enough of a platform to build real progression from. There definitely is a balance between variation and consistency in mode of exercise however I think that balance can be struck with some thoughtful individual programming.

As far as making money, I have no doubt that any system I could come up with would NOT be as successful as crossfit for a number of reasons (as listed in my prior posts). Although I don't necessarily agree with the planning style of the wod's, they do provide a huge motivational aspect to the cf athlete and are a source of daily excitement to many. I would welcome the opportunity to chat with you further though about these ideas!

cb: I'm curious: how many athletes have you personally trained to a high level of proficiency?

Easy, Barry. Play nice with cb! This conversation is pretty cool. Does "progressive overload" across a smaller range of time and modal domains compete adequately with, let alone surpass, Crossfit and "constantly varied" in the generation of General Physical Preparedness? This is a good discussion.

Lewis Dunn #46: Read my post again please, Brother, if you have time today. I'll come back later and respond to #46 and whatever else you may find interesting in #32 on a second reading.

Oops...it was #41, too, wasn't it? I'll check back.

Hi Barry,

For about 4 months I integrated the occasional (2x/wk) wod into my regular training then I actually transitioned to going full .com for another 8 months, so I would say a reasonable amount of time in the crossfit system, certainly enough to assess the effects.

As far as training athletes to a high level of proficiency, you might be surprised ;).

Thanks for the comments bingo, I think it is a worthwhile discussion for sure... but don't worry I can take care of myself!

#49 - Coach

You wrote, "If you find a way to ... improve CF scores/times absent CF stimulus, I'll help you become rich. You'd have a million dollar concept and I'd embrace your methods, give you ample credit - quite publicly, and we'd have a major evolution of CrossFit".

I'm curious what you regard as "CF stimulus".

Is it the main page WODs? The trademark "metcons" like Fran? Does MEBB count? (Lots of people report improved Crossfit times/scores using that program.) What about a mix of Rippetoe's "Texas Method" with a couple of sessions each week mixing sprints, box jumps, and sled pulling? What if I use periodization instead of randomization?

Is there a list of criteria that can be applied to determine if a training method counts as "CF stimulus"?

Dutch Lowy recently wrote: "Crossfitters are weak and its holding us back!" He thus advocates Coach Rut's MEBB.

http://www.dutchlowy.com/2009/05/07/mebb-vs-cfsb/#comments

If incorporating a strength program like MEBB or Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" improves Crossfit times/scores, does that count as a major evolution of Crossfit? If so, I think it's already occurred.

jwolfram,

that is an excellent point - I only see the requirements for high maximum strength increasing as cf evolves. I thoroughly believe that attaining high maximal strength requires regular and consistent programming for optimum effectiveness and safety.

Before anyone brings it up, I would like to keep the discussion to the straight effectiveness of semi-random varied training (cf) vs. more structured and progressive training with less variation. Other factors that should be debated at another time would be the motivational issues and efficiency of training (i.e. the observed gains per unit time).

Indeed, it might. However, I lack the information at this point to make a judgment.

From my perspective, top CrossFitters are people who CrossFit. Many if not most of them do the Main Page WOD for large sections of the year, but I would suspect most of them also set up their own programs to address their weaknesses.

There is nothing "un-CrossFitish" about this. If you look around at various affiliates, there is TREMENDOUS variety in the programming. There is no reason you can't set aside Tuesday and Friday for Max Effort. There is no reason you can't do any set of programming you want.

And if you work hard on ANY program, you will improve. I don't doubt that.

The question, though, if your goal is on-going growth, is how best to achieve it.

If, for example, we simply take the Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands, would there then be a better way of training for intense, functional, varied exercise, than intense, functional, and varied exercise?

EVERYONE will improve at a certain rate until they are good, if they stick with ANY program for long enough, and work hard at it.

But if you want to be ELITE, you need either natural ability coupled with hard work, or hard smart work over a course of years.

There is no reason you can't continue your experiment, but the fact of the matter is that in the CrossFit world an elite Fran time is sub-3 minutes. If you can do that with your programming, I for one will listen to you.

Until then, I will listen to the MANY CrossFit Games competitors who extolled the virtues of the Main Page WOD.

On topic, I just wanted to comment on the fact that they apparently fired/drove out quite a few teachers who were not performing.

I don't know if they still do it, but Intel used to fire about 10% of their employees annually, just to make sure the rest stayed on their toes.

Imagine if we placed the same demands for results on teachers that we do people in industry.

Imagine we considered the moral education implicit in sustained focus and commitment to be an essential element in the formation of young American citizens.

Imagine that we were more concerned with building leaders than consoling people to the point of enabling them to ruin the lives of themselves and their children.

Imagine the American Left did not NEED poverty in order to justify its existence.

All of the problems facing us--ALL OF THEM--can be solved, if we COMMIT to it. A commitment is a principled decision to DO WHAT WORKS. If it feels good, but doesn't work, dump it like a hot potato.

I've been posting too much. That will be my last post for a bit.

Hi Barry,

The problem with the SAID principle when applied to .com crossfit is that there is no "S" (specific) as the whole point is to be non-specific.

Regarding the sub 3 minute fran, I'm not convinced that myself achieving that standard would really prove anything. All that I will say is that I truly believe if I trained within my system I would progress faster towards that goal than if I trained off the .com workouts.

The way I see it is that to achieve a sub-3 fran, I would need to increase my grip endurance and strength for pullups, my max strength on front squats and shoulder presses, and anaerobic power/capacity in my legs. All of those things can be achieved through a structured resistance training and anaerobic conditioning program. Without having the goal of training for fran (which I did quite unexpectedly by the way), my current program has all of those components already, to which I attribute the drop in my PB time.

Thank you goes out to CF San Diego for allowing me to join in on their 9 AM class!

Special thanks to Karina, the 9AM intructor :)

AMRAP in 20 min:
10 Pull-ups
10 Thrusters @ 65#

(Modified to right-arm chest to rings jumping pull-ups and right-arm KB Thruster, 73#)

7 Rounds + 10 Pull-ups + 9 Thrusters. Did the last rep of the 10 thrusters at 20:01, so I can't say 8 rounds.

Good times!

jwolfram,

Any approach that can produce top or significantly improved scores would be a major improvement. I've seen neither top scores nor significant improvement (improvement beyond quite ordinary), but believe that the regularly touted improvements and mod's to the WOD have produced reduced results and NO champions. That's what I'm seeing. Someday, someone, is going to win at the Games or produce a firebreathing champion of the WOD's through tweaks in programming. I'm counting on that happening. It may very well be Rip and/or Rut. They've not done it yet, at least as far as data or evidence could support. Until I can find empirical evidence, that meets the requirement of data, to support a proposition I remain unconvinced even when it inconveniences me (I want the improvements in programming to arise) or my friends (they want the same).

I cannot stress highly enough the difference between speaking and demonstrating a fact.

I agree with Dutch. CrossFitters are not strong enough. They're not powerful enough. They're not quick enough. They're not flexible enough. They don't possess enough coordination, accuracy, agility, or balance. Dutch needs to now show that he's got a solution to the agreed on problem. To date there is ZERO evidence to believe that he has. I wish him the best of luck from the bottom of my heart. When he does, nobody will be able to hide the fact and nobody will miss his champions on these very pages or at the Games. Right?

#56 Ryan
"I think the only way the US will fix education is by throwing money at it."

If you look at the numbers, this has already been tried. In Washington DC, for example, the average expenditure per pupil was $23,000. The average private school tuition is around $5,000. The problem with the public school system is that there is no competition. There is no incentive to provide a better education than the school across the street. Milton Friedman compared our educational funding system to subsidizing a grocery store so that it will provide better food, rather than giving the customers money and allowing them to choose their food. Charter schools are better than the regular public school system because they at least have some incentives in place. Still, they don't have all the incentives of a private school, and are generally inferior to them. With regard to statistics such as class size - people love to use them to provide a basis for increased funding, and they probably make a small difference. However, we've all taken 700 person classes in college that were adequately taught. The problem doesn't lie in class size. The problem lies in teacher quality, standards, willingness to allow failure, responsiveness to child/parent needs, etc, and these problems can never be remedied in a monopolistic or anti-competitive public system.

regarding Bingo's post at #32 and Lewis Dunn's response.

I'm not going to speak for Bingo b/c we obviously think differently (Bingo is classy & brings positude to the board)

I'm going to make an analogy for the problem I see with the negativity of these posts. It is tantamount to someone joining the Chess club and then immediately going on a campaign for everyone to play checkers. Hey Bub, there is a checkers club down the hall. Go play there.
But instead of going to play checkers with the like minded he wants to stay in the chess club and moan and groan about the boredom of chess and that if we would all just play checkers how much better our lives would be.
And then has the temerity to act offended when he is told to shut up and buzz off as though he were just offering some canny insight as to the strategy of the game. He's not offering anything other than being a gadfly. And Lewis there is a difference between critiquing strategy/tactics and telling us we are playing the wrong game.

They may not be the problem bingo has with these kinds of posts. But it is the problem I have with them.

(Bingo do I get any vocab points for tantamount, temerity and gadfly?)

I just finished the Level 1 Cert in Golden this past weekend and just wanted to give my heartfelt thanks to the trainers and Coach Glassman. The instruction was captivating and fun, with a great flow of lectures and small sessions to really drive home each concept. I felt like the cert really brought Crossfit full circle for me and gave me the tools not to just go show the Crossfit philosophy, but explain and teach it--so thank you!

I've been crossfitting for several years, and have had the wonderful opportunity to be at Crossfit Verve in Denver for the past 6 months, with amazing personal results. The chance to be personally trained by some of the best people has made a world of difference for me. Crossfit may not be for everyone, but it works for me.

I look better, I perform better, and I feel better....and that's enough for me.

CB #70,

I think you make an interesting point but I think you are comparing apples to oranges. In this post you basically state that through a structured program you can better train for a specific Crossfit event, like Fran.

I don't think most people on the CF board would argue with you on that one. In fact that is one of the reason's Crossfit football was started. I remember watching a video about the origins of CF football where they specifically discuss altering the program. They realized that football was actually a known quantity. People know what role they are going to play in the game, they know when the game is occurring, they know their opponent, they know when they are going to eat sleep, etc. As such they took some of the CF principles but modified it to train specifically for this known entity, similar to your analogy of training for Fran.

The goal of CF, from my understanding, is to train for the randomness of life. I would be interested to hear how you create a structured program that trains you for the randomness other than for the program itself to be well random and varied. That is kind of why I like CF. I play a basketball, vball, and football as well as hike, mountain bike etc. A random program like CF is the only possible way I can "structure" a workout routine to keep me in good enough shape to play all these sports.

Anyway I am a newbie here and usually just make jokes to take my post with a grain of salt... some of my assumptions about CF and CF football could be wrong.

Bingo, Jakers,

I think you're overreacting. jwolfram's initial comment is not that negative. I think he's wrong to imply that CF newbies doing well at qualifiers is an indictment of CF. As superior athletes find CF, they won't need much time, if any, to kick the butts of folks we may have (erroneously) labeled as elite. CF is new, and the folks at the top now may be big fish in a small pond. Existing CF'ers with enough talent will stay near the top, but I think the level will go up a lot, perhaps to the point where us average folks find it much harder to relate. CF would do well to drop the "fittest person on the planet" thing. That's absurd. Work out. Train hard. Have fun. Shut up.

when will i be able to see "Every Second Counts"?

comment #69 Barry Cooper,

In all seriousness, I like your thinking, but think that it is going to be nearly impossible to quantify exactly who should be fired and who gets to keep their job.

Now a little good-natured sarcasm. Why stop with just Intel and teachers? I think all businessmen, doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants... basically the entire workforce, professional, layman, or otherwise should be held to this standard. Let's fire 10% of Americans with jobs every year in every field. And while we are at it, parents should be fired from raising their children if their children aren't performing.

#73 - Neil,

Sorry, I have to respond to your comment. When I made my statement about throwing money at the problem, I was obviously not meaning just increase funding. I think the money in the school systems is going to the wrong places, longer school days, more school days per year, and smaller class sizes (10-15 students per teacher compared with 25-35) are all places that funding should go, not teacher increased teacher pay.

There have been multiple studies done on class size, one just last year was published in the USAToday, and they all show the same thing, smaller class sizes make a difference, especially for children from lower socio-economic classes.

Are there bad teachers out there? Yes, but there are also priests and ministers that molest children or profess hate, there are also bad doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. Instead of focusing on teachers, we need to focus on America as a whole, but then maybe the only way to change the system is by starting with teachers.

Hey guys, I've got a quick question.

I'm a sophomore in high school right now, and, during the coming summer, I will be doing many high-intensity workouts in preparation for the next school year's Cross Country season. However, I do not plan on giving up on CrossFit for the time being. Would it be unwise to do two high-intensity workouts in one day?

Rocky Mtn Regional Qualifier WOD #1, 3 rounds for time of deadlift 300# (I did 315), run 400m. Time 7 minutes flat. I bet it will take a sub-6:00 to qualify.

Warmup: 2 rounds of 400m run, 10 ghd, 10 be, 10 pullups, 10 OHS (45-45), 10 dips; HPC 135(10)-155(5)-175(5).

Today's discussion. Maybe there are three separate questions being run together here:

Question 1: how well does CF work for what CF sets out to do (i.e. fitness across broad modal and time domains)? Answer: very well.

Question 2: how well does CF work as preparation for a specific activity? Answer, I think: depends on the activity. Rowing: extremely well (maybe not so much on the water, but certainly on the erg). Running marathons: okay.

Question 3: how well does a specific activity prepare an athlete for CF? Answer, I think: maybe depends on activity? There is a video of an elite swimmer doing FGB for the first time and scoring over 400 pts. Impressive. Could an elite marathon runner do that? Think not.

Note new numbers - turned 45 over the weekend, seem to have dropped 5 pounds over the last couple weeks after tweaking my diet.

#33,

Have to disagree with you there. Like almost everyone, I did the weights schedule and cardio thing for years. Biggest waste of time. Sure I got bigger and stronger, but that's where it stopped. I've done Crossfit now for 11 months. I'm leaner, stronger, faster, and have more stamina and endurance than I ever have. Physically I look better than I ever have. When I play hockey, I can skate harder and faster for a longer span of time. And it takes an average of 15 minutes 6 days/week instead of 2+ hours/day.

m/36/215/5'11

Performed yesterday's WOD
Back Squat 5-5-5-5-5 reps

205
225
235
240(pr)
225

A splash of cold water on the Brooks article here from Charles Murray of AEI:
http://blog.american.com/?p=501

It also peripherally touches on the fitness gains from crossfit vs. alternate program in that it discusses the data requirements to make meaningful normative statements about performance changes over time.

h/t to NRO.

The easy trap to fall into is blaming everything on the teachers.

Notice how Barry Cooper never even considers the fact that a large part of the problem might lie with school administration. Poor school administration prevents even quality teachers from doing the best job possible. Things like accountability, support, follow-through, consistency, fairness, and discipline have a huge impact on how a school functions day-to-day.

It is an error to assume that the problem is just the teachers. School administration must be the most under-examined topic in the whole education debate.

You can stick the best teachers in the world into a school with poor administration and you will still have a problem. Most poor schools face a real problem attracting top administrators. And teachers and students suffer because of it.

I just don't see how substituting schools for home life is a long-term solution. Until the factors that lead to kids growing up in crushing poverty and the associated abuse and neglect are addressed, we're never going to see sustainable improvement.

The article about the Harlem Children's Zone doesn't include some very important facts. The parents of the children enrolled in the school must agree to attend mandatory meetings with school administrators. Also, the school has the ability to, for the lack of a better word, "expel" problem students at their discretion. Because of the enhanced parental involvement, and the elimination of so called "problem students", it should be expected that the school performs better then the average public school in NYC. Without proper parental supervision, and classes containing disruptive and/or aggressive students, regular public schools should not expect to see the same level of success, regardless of the funding or teaching ability of its staff.

Being married to a public school teacher, I have been around all sides of the education argument. Being a six sigma black belt and lean manufacturing expert, I have also tried to cross some manufacturing successes into a classroom. Some stick, others fail miserably.

There are a ton of great teachers. Many of these teachers are placed in a system of finite time where they are expected to convey an ever growing list of "knowledge" to children who are greatly mismatched in capabilities and motivation. Schools are also concerned with homogenization of curriculum between classrooms and teachers. This further reduces the teachers' ability to differentiate material for their students. A pay for performance scale would unjustly punish teachers who have a greater percentage of children in certain programs as they leave the classroom for additional instruction throughout the day. From the articles I honestly believe the only significant change is the amount of available time for the students to learn and process the new skills. My wife's best students are often the ones who are organized, do their homework, are involved in other activities at the school and have supportive parents who teach them structure and respect the authority of the classroom. They are the best equipped to excel with the time available. This is independent of race, religion, income level, sex, hair color, eye color and any number of additional inputs you can list.

When measuring a teacher, which metrics are the best? I've witnessed children come through a first grade classroom speaking 0 words of English and by the end of the year are reading and writing but are still below grade level standards. Many would say that the teacher failed because the student is below grade level. However the percentage improvement is not even calculable because the baseline was zero. the time and energy it would have taken to bring this student up to par would have then been at the detriment of the remainder of the class. The only way to move the entire range effectively within the given constraints of the system (time) would be to first reduce the variation of the sample group. would we accept limiting the best performers? I would hope not. Would we not accept children into school without first displaying some record of performance potential? this would seem equally ludicrous.

I'll close with a crossfit analogy. you have a client who wants to improve their crossfit total score of 400 and the standard for this person's training level is 900. However you only have their body weight (140 lbs), no external objects/equipment, and 10 minutes a day to train. the retest is in 16 weeks and your job depends on that person scoring 900 or better. what do you do?

Hi All!!! I have been cross fitting for about 4 months now and am totally in love with it. It has given me more energy and given me more confidence. I have been reading about the Paleo diet and have even started zoning, well partially.

I am a bio major so the paleo diet got me thinking and researching. I don’t know if this really is the place to post this but I wanted to ask yall this

From what I have read, the Paleo diet is essentially a caveman diet eating a lot of meat, seafood, vegetables, fruit, and eggs... essentially things we would find in nature. And then to back that up, I read that cavemen had better teeth, stronger and less cavity filled teeth. I have even read that eating paleo has increase/enhanced eyesight. Cavemen did not walk around blind and wear glasses. YES, cavemen are our ancestry, so they must have done something right, right?

So I started thinking about this: Would the paleo diet help everyone in the world with obesity, malnutrition, young children, and would overall health be increased with the paleo diet.

From these questions I hypothesize that yes the paleo diet would help everyone, old, young, high metabolism, and obesity. I believe so because, we are eating more nature foods that have less processing and fillers, i.e. rice, bread, and cereal and that cavemen had strong teeth and better eyesight. So in turn if I feed my future child a paleo diet, would he/she have good strong teeth, less cancer, less likely to get sick, and 20/20 vision? Yes I know that there are other factors involved with being “healthy” but this whole paleo thing got me thinking.

Sorry for the ran, but I would love to hear yall comments.

Milan #86 makes an extremely important and, as he stated, crucial point in the quality of schools discussion. Administrators play a huge role in what teachers can and can't do, as well as overall workplace environment for teachers.

I am a police officer in a neighborhood on the south side of Chicago and my wife, who moved here recently after we got married, is a teacher and has been working on the south side since she has lived here for about 6 months now. The classroom environment she has worked in is about as bad as it gets. 7th graders with drug problems, sexual harrassment of other students and teachers, including my wife, constant fighting, cursing at teachers and threatening them is regular everyday behavior.

My wife's biggest complaint however is the administrations failure to back up the teachers when they take measures they feel are necessary to control the classroom. There is very little follow through, no consistency and very little support. My wife's contention has been that as bad as these kids behave, considering the homes they come from, their behavior in school, which needs to be addressed before true, quality learning can take place, can be drastically changed through better discipline and most importantly higher standards and expectations. None of which the administration allows the teachers to implement. And it isn't that they are not allowing the teachers to take control of their classrooms through direct orders or behavior, but indirectly through apathy and in many ways fear of making a decision or being accused of discrimination or racism.

Now, I don't doubt that there are issues going on at a higher level, however something needs to be done to untie our teachers hands and allow them to do what it takes to take control in the classroom. More money, while may be a benefit in some ways, is in no way the solution.

Another interesting point made in this article "Some experts, mostly surrounding the education establishment, argue that schools alone can’t produce big changes." These same experts have been a part of this failing establishment for decades. Maybe it's time for a change and to bring about some fresh ideas that may not be so conventional.

There are many teachers who care about their jobs and about inspiring kids to learn but without giving them the control they need we are doing the teachers and the kids a disservice. We can't tip toe around and be afraid of offending people by doing or saying the wrong thing in the classroom.

The most interesting line in David Brooks' article is, "Ever since welfare reform, we have had success with intrusive government programs that combine paternalistic leadership, sufficient funding and a ferocious commitment to traditional, middle-class values." Seriously? Did it have to take "experts" decades of failure followed by inadequate and only mildly effective reform to begin to see this? It's time for a little creativity when it comes to dealing with education.

Much appreciated. I kind of pulled a tendon in my left bicep in the weighted pull ups.

24/m/5'7/155#

Had a light morning today, and I just got a new speed rope, so decided to do:

"Annie"
50-40-30-20-10
DU, Sit-ups

Last time I did double-unders was a loooong time ago. The speed rope definitely helped, although I still can't string more than 3 or so together.

Very broken sets, and I might have been +/- 2 or 3 on each set because it's hard to count your own DU's, especially when you are missing so many. I occasionally counted missed attempts as long as the explosion was there, and the technique with the rope was just lacking. Few and far between though... glad to say most were legitimate double-unders.

Ballparked it around 10:45 on an analog watch. Give or take 15 seconds.

Not too shabby.

Coach (re: post 72, as it sits now) -

You said "I've seen neither top scores nor significant improvement (improvement beyond quite ordinary), but believe that the regularly touted improvements and mod's to the WOD have produced reduced results and NO champions."

Caity Matter last years female winner advises in her interview that she wasn't following the mainpage strictly (ie a modified CF) prior to the games.

Jeff Tincher last years #5 follows his own programming, and of course Mr. Josh Everett (who arguably has produced the most consistent performance) doesn't follow it either.

These are just quick easy references. A deeper look would likely produce similar supportive findings.

Granted all Crossfitting (not debating that) in one way or the other, but definitely not following the mainpage.

Qualifier WOD @ work with Jeff & Gary

Ouch...

M/49/151/1-1-06

Slightly behind. Beautiful day in Cleveburg so did 100M "Michael" outdoors.

22:52

pa, #87,
There you have it. Harlem Children's Zone cherry-picks it's students both before and after the fact. Before by filtering out the un-involved parents and after by kicking out any kid that doesn't fit in.

Public schools don't have that luxury. The problem won't be solved in schools. The schools are a symptom of the illness.

4 rounds of an 800m run

3:14
3:26
3:32
3:36

All runs were outside. The first two were 400m turnarounds with a small hill in the route. The second two were 200m turnarounds with the same hill in the route.

F/37/125
Make up day!
Back squats, 5x5
worked from bar up by 10's to get the following last 5 sets:
105x5
115x5
125x5
130x5
135x5 (pr for 5)
140x2
Immediately following (and not very wisely, I might add!): tried to do the 4, 800m runs. Legs were apparently shot! Poor effort on the 3 that I managed to do: 3:25, 3:53, 3:55... Here's hoping that tomorrow's wod will be some sort of "seated" wod that does not involve the use of my legs!!

I have to disagree, based on my observation, with the comment regarding the problem with schools are the local administrators (principals). My spouse is a first grade teacher in a low economic area but is one of the highest ranked elementary schools in the state. The school is pretty much self run since the principals are rotated every 2 years. The common denominator is it is located in an Asian community. Strong paternal influence as well as competent teachers are the secrets for effective education.

But a dysfunctional system like the LA Unified is made of inept administrators, unions and teachers. Last week two articles in the LA Times highlights the inability to remove bad teachers from the LA system. It is a disgrace.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers6-2009may06,3,3671363,full.story
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers3-2009may03,0,679507.story

Greg #83,

I guess your program before wasn't all that good then ;)

In all seriousness, there are as many weight and cardio programs out there as stars in the sky, so yours might have/probably did suck as far as getting you into better shape for your sports.

I'm not talking about a random weights/cardio program, i'm talking about one that is well thought out and administered by a professional coach... big difference my friend!

Rest question

Im past my fourth week, and I heard that I take it easy this week or I take a day off. I was leaning towards taking a day off and starting the cycle a day late. Is this this right? (Im a month behind on workouts anyway so it doesn't really matter)
Thank you

Seems like Lewis Dunn was as I was today. Ah well.

Aware #93: you are falling into the Crossfit = Main Page, Main Page = Crossfit trap. Tony Budding offered a video of "double pump Wall balls/double unders" a couple of years ago that never appeared as a Main Page WOD. Was he not doing Crossfit? By your definition you could just as well add Andy Petranek of CF Los Angeles who follows his own, non-Main Page programming. Or Jeff Martin, whose trainers follow their own CF muse. Or Jeff Martin himself, who follows his CFSB protocol. Or, and I really love this one, how about adding Greg Glassman to your list? Ever take a peek at the old CF Santa Cruz web site? Or chat with any of Coach Glassman's SFSC athletes? I'll save you the trouble of the search--they did not do CF.com Main Page WOD's.

They did, however, do Crossfit. So do Andy and Jeff, and if you look at Josh's training I think you would agree that it looks a ton like Crossfit. The better definition of Crossfit is probably "constantly varied functional movements performed at high intensity for time" first introduced in "What is Fitness" and accompanied by WOD examples that look suspiciously like Crossfit Main Page stuff with supplemental gymnastics or strength. work.

No, aware, I don't think your examples prove your point.

I'm still intrigued by cb's posts and thoughts, however. My personal view is that Crossfit the program, no matter how you define it, will be superior to any traditional split program in a given individual athlete with regard to general fitness. The associated, parallel thought he offers up about targeted progression is really interesting. Would there be a version of Crossfit that would specifically attempt traditional progression/periodization (ie. Crossfit by my defintion in #102 without "constantly varied) that would prove superior in some manner? I think that's a pretty interesting question.

For example, is there some version of Crossfit that incorporates Coach Rip or Coach Rut's stuff that will produce athletes who will prove superior at the Crossfit definition of fitness (work capacity across broad time an modal domains)? Coach Glassman says "not yet". Will Jeff Martin's CFSB or Brian MacKenzie's CFE do it? Again, Coach Glassman would say "not yet."

My own personal preference would be to see what some of the more extreme examples of Crossfit or Crossfit-like programs like mountain athlete would do. I'd love to see them send a couple of athletes to a Games Qualifier. Their stuff is really good. And who wouldn't want to see a couple of Gym Jones studs in the mix?

I'll go back to the original post that provoked my pique: what a blast it would be to see some major league athletic monsters from the non-CF world train CF and see if they improve their fitness!

And so, finally, back to you Lewis Dunn.

jwolfram #31: "Makes me wonder what their pre-Crossfit training programs looked like." Yeah, me too. An interesting observation and an equally interesting question. All bet lots of us are curious. Pity s/he didn't stop there.

"Maybe years of Crossfit isn't the best route to being an outstanding Crossfitter." Gratuitous slam. Unnecessary negativity. Qualitatively negative and an example of the choice to go negative that I decry in post #32. I stand by my post.

Lewis Dunn #46: There is a qualitative difference between constructive criticism (comments meant to provoke thought that results in affirmative, positive change/Improvement) and criticism that is meant to degrade or denigrate. See my first paragraph above.

I decry a certain choice to take the low road, to assume mal-intent on the part of Crossfit or Crossfitters or the founders of Crossfit. THAT is how my post #41 should be read, NOT that I was specifically accusing jwolfram of mal-intent in post #31. It is the ASSUMPTION that something is nefarious, the knee-jerk assumption that someone is doing something wrong/sneaky/underhanded, etc at Crossfit that is so obvious in the negative posts that I decry. The gratuitous slam. Why? What value is added? This is different from constructive criticism or indeed, hard and direct questions, don't you think? cb offers an example that he believes counters the preponderant claim of CF-superiority, and offers up a hard question: Is targeted progression superior to constantly varied? I think that's a helpful conversation, don't you?

Knee-jerk? Nah. Over-reaction to a rather tiny post? Well, if accused of THAT I'd be hard put to offer much of a defense, especially after my ridiculous keyboard output in the last few minutes, eh?

By the way, "relentless" does not mean "universal" or "exclusive" WRT positive and kind posts. I am neither Ghandi nor am I always right. While the episode to which you refer proves the former (not Ghandi), it turned out that it did not prove the latter.

Trace #99

With all due respect I'm not exactly sure how you disagree with problem administrators in schools.

You state "The school is pretty much self run since the principals are rotated every 2 years." That was precisely one solution my wife offered as fixing the problem. Rotate the administrators so they don't become apathetic and in a sense have to earn their next position. It sounds like part of the success at your spouse's school is he/she (apologies, im not sure which it is) doesn't have the problem of administration getting in the way. You also stated "Strong paternal influence as well as competent teachers are the secrets for effective education." I think I said something pretty close to that at the end of my post (#90). The problem is administrators here on the south side don't allow a "strong influence" of any kind out of fear.

Of course there are ineffective teachers, which is a problem that needs to be addressed, but starting with their bosses I think would be a better way to begin addressing the problem. With a higher position should comes a greater responsibility.

Very interesting conversation, which basically boils down to: Is just doing the main site WODs the best way to improve performance across broad time and modal domains. I have my own ideas about this to be sure, but let me just give you a quote, from the FAQ and pose some questions:

"Part of the crossfit philosophy includes pursuing/learning another sport or activity, and many crossfitters are also martial artists and competitive athletes in a variety of disciplines.
However, if you work the WODs hard, you will find yourself at an improved level of fitness, and for lots of us, the WOD is our primary "sport."
If you pursue another activity, you will need to balance your work/rest cycles and be sure to allow for recovery. Sometimes, you will need extra days off or to consider a WOD as "active rest" done at a lower intensity."

If, as is now true for so many of us, CrossFit is "The Sport Of Fitness", how does that change how we train for it, if at all?

If, as is now the case, The CF year culminates with the CF Games, and therefore, takes on element of the "unknown and unknowable" out the equation (we now know the time and place the challenge will occur) how, if at all does this change our approach to training, if at all?

If, as is true for many if not most coming to CF, the limiting factor in being able to perform RX is a lack of strength, and/or ability to do high skill moves (muscle-up, pistol, C2B, double-under, HSPU, etc.)is the limiting factor, is simply doing the CF WODs using Brand X scaling, the fastest way to developing the neccessary capacity? If not what is? Would this involve replacing certain WODs or stacking further work on top of them (5X5s,etc.) How much is too much? Why?

If, as is the case, the test of the "Fittest Person On the Planet" (I have to agree with Joe P that while this might be good marketing it is a bit of broad-brushism) involves multiple brutal efforts within a short period of time, is the best way to train for this to follow the Main Site WODs? Why or why not? Does specificity of training come into play here? Why or why not?

If CrossFit is a test of capacity over broad time and modal domains, what is the upper limit of time domains that can/should be tested? Why? Is it possible to have a 3 minute Fran Time and an elite marathon or even 1/2 marathon time? Why or why not.

Geez...I think I'm channeling Barry! Mine's just not as well-written, unfortunately.

Post with grammatical errors fixed. Premature post-button fail.

Very interesting conversation, which basically boils down to: Is just doing the main site WODs the best way to improve performance across broad time and modal domains? Rather than comment, let me just give you a quote, from the FAQ, and pose some questions:

"Part of the crossfit philosophy includes pursuing/learning another sport or activity, and many crossfitters are also martial artists and competitive athletes in a variety of disciplines.
However, if you work the WODs hard, you will find yourself at an improved level of fitness, and for lots of us, the WOD is our primary "sport."
If you pursue another activity, you will need to balance your work/rest cycles and be sure to allow for recovery. Sometimes, you will need extra days off or to consider a WOD as "active rest" done at a lower intensity."

If, as is now true for so many of us, CrossFit is "The Sport Of Fitness", how does that change how we train for it, if at all?

If, as is now the case, The CF year culminates with the CF Games, and therefore, takes one element of the "unknown and unknowable" out the equation (we now know the time and place the challenge will occur) how, if at all does this change our approach to training?

If, as is true for many, if not most, coming to CF, the limiting factor in being able to perform RX is a lack of strength, power and/or ability to do high skill moves (muscle-up, pistol, C2B, double-under, HSPU, etc.),is simply doing the CF WODs using Brand X scaling, the fastest way to develop the neccessary capacity? If not what is? Would this involve replacing certain WODs or stacking further work on top of them (5X5s,etc.) How much is too much? Why? Does this change with the level of the athlete? Why or why not?

If, as is the case, the test of the "Fittest Person On the Planet" involves multiple brutal efforts within a short period of time, with several hours of rest between them, is the best way to train for this to follow the Main Site WODs? Why or why not? Does specificity of training come into play here? Why or why not?

If CrossFit is a test of capacity over broad time and modal domains, what is the upper limit of time domains that can/should be tested? Why? Is it possible to have a 3 minute Fran Time and an elite marathon or even 1/2 marathon time? Why or why not.

Thats correct, Milan post 96. The writer is either biased or uninformed when it comes to the Harlem Children's Zone. It is unfair to compare it to other NYC public schools. Another point regsrding the HCZ - It is headed by a woman named Eva Moskowitz. She is a former city council member who has ambitions of running for Mayor of NYC. It sounds cynical, but by heading successful schools such as the HCZ, where the students are indeed "cherrypicked" she can build a reputation as a successful educator - an important quality for a mayoral hopeful! The better the performance of the students at these schools - well, you know where I'm going with this...

pa #109

Perhaps it is unfair to completely compare the Harlem Children's Zone to other NYC public schools but whether or not politics are involved in this endeavor that is 10,000 more kids who would otherwise be in the failing public schools in 2008 alone who appear to be better off. I'll take those results regardless of alleged political motivations. Cherrypicking or not, at least those 10,000 kids have a chance they would not have otherwise had.

At this point we can't look for a complete fix. But we can look for innovative and unconventional solutions in order to chip away at the mammoth size problem in our public schools. Certainly not everything the HCZ does will work in public schools, due to the problems already mentioned that HCZ may not have to deal with, but refusing to acknowledge that some of these fixes are working by a failing educational institution just comes down to ego. The hardest thing for an "expert" to admit is that their way of doing things is not working.

Josh,

Sorry about my comment regarding Admins. I should have clarified my position. My brother in law is a teacher in LA Unified and his response is always the Admin. I just was trying to give my take that it could be a number of things. I doubt a single principle could hamper the results of an entire school.

Comment #102 - Posted by: bingo at May 11, 2009 4:30 PM

Bingo.

Go back and read what I posted.

At the end of my post I state:

“Granted all Crossfitting (not debating that) in one way or the other, but definitely not following the mainpage.”

I made my post given Coach’s statement (post #72) regarding “mod’s to the WOD” and “any approach” which was a response to a post that included the MEBB (a mod to the WOD, which is still CrossFit) and a reference to Dutch’s post regarding MEBB v. CFSB (both modifications to the WOD, but still CrossFit)

SO

(pause)

I took his response to read that “modifications to the WOD” includes anything not mainpage. My quick examples were those that still CrossFit but don’t follow the mainpage.

Maybe I am misunderstanding his post somehow?

BGI level 1
Thanks to Todd and family and all the coaches Andy, John, Chuck, Jenni, Mike G, Justin Burk, and Johnny Mack you guys were great.

CF LOS ALTOS, CA - COMPETITOR

We will be competing for the Affiliate Cup! Signed up today. This is gonna be great! I hope to meet many of you there in Aromas on Friday July 10th :)

Comment #108 - Posted by: Maximus @ CF East Bay

Max, good to see you on here brother! Are you ready to rumble at the Affiliate Cup throwdown at One World?

Great points you have there on the issue of Crossfit as a sport within itself. I have the short answer, and it's what you alluded to: Work on what you suck at. It's all about keeping your strengths and finding/fixing the chinks in your armor. Everyone's gotta train specific to what they would like to improve. I believe it's a matter of being wise with your training volume, nutrition, and rest, and having the mental fortitude to fess-up to what you suck at and attack those things whenever it's applicable.

Summarizing:

You wrote, "If you find a way to ... improve CF scores/times absent CF stimulus, I'll help you become rich. You'd have a million dollar concept and I'd embrace your methods, give you ample credit - quite publicly, and we'd have a major evolution of CrossFit".

I asked: "I'm curious what you regard as *CF stimulus*".

In response, you stated that you "believe that the regularly touted improvements and mod's to the WOD have produced reduced results and NO champions."

Just to clarify: Are you suggesting that following the main page WODs is what you meant by *CF stimulus*, and that following any other program has produced reduced results?

I'm trying to get an unambiguous, testable hypothesis from you.

I'm not trying to be rude or unnecessarily contentious. I was under the impression that many top performers at the Crossfit games do not follow the mainpage WODs. And that many individuals after months or years of Crossfitting have switched to a pure strength program (like Rip's) or a hybrid program (like Rut's) for just a few months, and then returned to Crossfit and finding themselves able to demonstrate significantly improved benchmark workouts like Fran.

F/22/5'6"/142

Day 7 of training, but got suckered in to doing this

3 snatch @75
5 cleans @95
7 thrusters @95
AMRAP 20

3 rounds +3+3
Goal is 6 rounds next time

Coach,

You wrote, "If you find a way to ... improve CF scores/times absent CF stimulus, I'll help you become rich. You'd have a million dollar concept and I'd embrace your methods, give you ample credit - quite publicly, and we'd have a major evolution of CrossFit".

I asked: "I'm curious what you regard as *CF stimulus*".

In response, you stated that you "believe that the regularly touted improvements and mod's to the WOD have produced reduced results and NO champions."

Just to clarify: Are you suggesting that following the main page WODs is what you meant by *CF stimulus*, and that following any other program has produced reduced results?

I'm trying to get an unambiguous, testable hypothesis from you.

I'm not trying to be rude or unnecessarily contentious. I was under the impression that many top performers at the Crossfit games do not follow the mainpage WODs. And that many individuals after months or years of Crossfitting have switched to a pure strength program (like Rip's) or a hybrid program (like Rut's) for just a few months, and then returned to Crossfit and finding themselves able to demonstrate significantly improved benchmark workouts like Fran.

23/M/185

Been a little lazy lately so decided to do Fran. Pulled a 4:23, a 1 min PR! really happy with myself. celebrated with some KB snatches.

Aware #112:

I have no inside information. I relay only what I have learned from extensive reading of crossfit.com and linked crossfit sites. As far as I know what I posted is an accurate depiction of what Coach Glassman and those who have been closely associated with him have stated during my tenure here. Cf stimulus is not code for Main Page WOD's. I believe it is shorthand for "constantly varied functional movements performed at high intensity for time." It is also shorthand for several WOD/workout session examples given in "What is Fitness". I'm pretty sure that has been stated by Coach, Jeff Martin, Tony Budding and others in several places and more than several times since 1-1-06. I claim no credit for any of those insights. I hope that my memory is accurate.

#27 Syn:
Seriously, is there going to be a Crossfit in Harlem? I live at 117th and 8th, and would love a nearby Crossfit. (No, Midtown does not count as nearby.)

Herm #115: What's up Big Man? Yes we will be there representing CFEB with our "A" Team. It's too bad there is not a way for more teams to participate, but I guess the heat is turning up coming up to the Affiliate Cup. Also Freddy seems to be continuing the trend of moving towards pure capacity (like the SFCF Throwdown), which I am in agreement with. We are going to F'ing bring it and leave nothing on the table. Winning or losing is besides the point. But winning is nice.

Melissa #117:

That's the WOD we were talking (texting, whatever) about this AM right? Men's weight 115/135?

Jwolfram #118:

Coach will have to weigh in, but I can tell you, unambiguously that some of last years top 5 finishers, including the men's winner, and some of Norcal's top 5 qualifers this year do things besides the main site WOD, and this is from direct observation. However, NONE of them do monostructural cardio/weight splits, and personally I think your contention that you could build better overall capacity across broad time and modal domains is plain silly. I think Coach is being generous with you. The fact that you got a sub-5 Fran using these methods is pretty awesome, and I bet, based on that, if you did the main site WODs for, say six months, you would be pushing into elite territory. By the way, I am by no means a CF robot. Like Coach, I'm looking for any advantage and/or modification that might improve CF. What you are suggesting is not it. Sorry.

Maximus #122,

You've confused me (jwolfram) with another poster (cb, perhaps). I have made no claim regarding monostructural cardio/weight splits. I have only mentioned that several top finishers at recent Crossfit games have (i) been new to Crossfit (and so it's worth thinking about what they were doing before Crossfit) and (ii) have been using methods/routines other than mainpage WODs.

I should add, however, that I have personally witness more than a dozen athletes who improved their Crossfit benchmark times by ceasing to follow the mainpage WODs and instead going through a basic strength training program like Rippetoe's "Starting Strength". After six months to a year of heavily emphasizing strength training, they returned to Crossfit much stronger and demonstrated vastly improved times/scores on benchmark workouts. A number of trainers -- many in the Crossfit fold -- have witness similar results.

jwolfram - yes you are right, I did confuse your with cb.

I have been experimenting with just what you are talking about for some time:

http://www.crossfiteastbay.com/2007/10/search-for-the-northwest-passa.html

http://www.crossfiteastbay.com/2008/04/crossfit-east-bay-rest-day4080.html

So far no breakthroughs, but some hopeful signs.

jwolf,

It is funny that you say that (your most recent post) because I have personally heard Kelly Starrett say the exact opposite, that when he spent time doing the Starting Strength program that he did in fact get quite stronger but when he returned to CrossFit programming, most of his metcon type wods took a pretty significant hit. I have no actual evidence of this myself, other than knowing that K-Star is a stud and has no reason to say otherwise...

Eric #88

In answer to your question, find some big rocks.

John Brown #126

It is fairly clear at this point that focusing completely on strength and letting everything else go to hell is not the breakthrough.

Getting MUCH stronger while maintaining 100% of, or improving your capacity, might be.

Herm #115,

I think you are bang on with your comment - "work at what you suck at" however I don't think that if people are true to the cf philosophy of constantly varied stimulus that they will actually have enough time and energy put into improving their weak points.

I don't think I could ever accept that a program not tailored to an individual's strengths and weaknesses could ever be better than a program that addresses weaknesses in a progressive and consistent manner.

Elite performance in any domain requires a lot of "time on task" and given that a high level of maximum strength and power can make many wods significantly easier to complete indicates that there needs to be extensive time spent on developing those qualities. 5x1 power cleans on average of once per 20 days won't cut it and high repetition deads/squats/cleans/snatches etc will not establish high levels of strength.

Just imagine how much easier 95lb thrusters are when you can front squat 315 and press 205 versus front squatting 205 and pressing 150.

Another thing to think about is the crossover nature of many strength and conditioning activities - if I take a progressive and consistent approach to anaerobic capacity training, I'm going to incorporate interval training via running. I'd bring in work intervals of 45s to 70s and repeat multiple times with a 1:2 or 1:3 w:r ratio. Training regularly like this and utilizing stairs, hills, and sprints, I'll see improvement in my running anaerobic capacity as well as my squatting, my jumping, my thrusters etc etc without actually having to perform those activities. Plus, since I would be so regular with that training, the gains I would see would be greater than if I took a randomized approach.

Lots of good ideas floating around in this discussion, I think we're all after the same prize!!

5/8/09
CFWUx2
WOD
Fight Gone Bad
Box jumps
push press(45lb)
KB swings(25lb)
thrusters(25lb)
line jumps
*lowest score*
200-193-203

Thanks for the great cert in Golden this past weekend. I am excited to revamp how I teach elements with my renewed enthusiasm and increased education!

The trainers were fabulous. It was obvious their intentions were to bring everyone to their best possible ability as trainers and athletes. It was great to see folks accomplishing new things for the first time and see the trainers be just as excited.

As a former teacher, the ONLY feedback I have for trainers when lecturing is to repeat questions when they are asked prior to answering. It is difficult to hear questions asked when they are projected at towards the front. Besides that, I am still cussing like a sailor after the weekend and have to remind myself that I am at home with my children, not at crossfit!

I love to debate, but will limit myself to one comment.

Coach Glassman LOVES diversity of programming. The more ways people can spin intensity/functionality/variety the better. All of them are "CrossFit", and to claim otherwise is to plead ignorance unknowingly.

In point of fact, he has said repeatedly that he views one of the precise values of the CrossFit Games to be empirical testing of various programming schemes. If everybody came in doing ONLY the Main Page WOD, that would be useless. The Main Page WOD, in some respects, is a control group. We NEED people doing other stuff, preferably as widely varied as possible, in order to improve.

If the winners come in doing run/weight splits, I think we will all be duly shocked. However, I think the chance of that is vanishingly small, for the simple reason that most of us know from experience that there is a VAST difference between doing 3 on/1 off WOD's, and run/weight splits. There are 3 events in the Games--or have been historically--and a big part of competing is not just doing one well, but being able to recover fast enough to perform well again. I don't know how you could do that without using our basic workout scheme, or something close to it.

Oh hell, I started typing.

Charles Murray is the "Bell Curve" guy. I am not at all politically correct, but I will readily admit I--like almost everyone else--find the thesis of intrinsic differences discouraging.

There are quite a number of documented cases of increasing IQ's in otherwise homegeneous populations, including the entirety of the United States over the last century or so, if I'm not mistaken.

Actually, yes, here is a link that is well worth reading: http://www.reason.com/news/show/116991.html

Average American IQ has increased by 15 points in the last 50 years. Black IQ's were going up on par with white IQ's, until the 70's. What happened in the 70's, you might ask?

Simple: DEMOCRATS happened. They enabled (as in "codependent enabling") the complete eradication of the black family. They created a system in which generation after generation of kids grow up in single parent homes, under financial stress, and in which the mindset of victimization is taught as a virtual catechism, and increased, Obama-esque funding is cited as the ONLY possible remedy, for the alleged wrongs of racism which make girls get pregnant when they are 17.

I love to debate, but will limit myself to one comment.

Coach Glassman LOVES diversity of programming. The more ways people can spin intensity/functionality/variety the better. All of them are "CrossFit", and to claim otherwise is to plead ignorance unknowingly.

In point of fact, he has said repeatedly that he views one of the precise values of the CrossFit Games to be empirical testing of various programming schemes. If everybody came in doing ONLY the Main Page WOD, that would be useless. The Main Page WOD, in some respects, is a control group. We NEED people doing other stuff, preferably as widely varied as possible, in order to improve.

If the winners come in doing run/weight splits, I think we will all be duly shocked. However, I think the chance of that is vanishingly small, for the simple reason that most of us know from experience that there is a VAST difference between doing 3 on/1 off WOD's, and run/weight splits. There are 3 events in the Games--or have been historically--and a big part of competing is not just doing one well, but being able to recover fast enough to perform well again. I don't know how you could do that without using our basic workout scheme, or something close to it.

I don't know why I say I'm going to stop. I get sucked in, then can't help myself. Bingo: you're not even remotely as bad as me.

Charles Murray is the "Bell Curve" guy. I am not at all politically correct, but I will readily admit I--like almost everyone else--find the thesis of intrinsic differences discouraging.

There are quite a number of documented cases of increasing IQ's in otherwise homegeneous populations, including the entirety of the United States over the last century or so, if I'm not mistaken.

Actually, yes, here is a link that is well worth reading: http://www.reason.com/news/show/116991.html

Average American IQ has increased by 15 points in the last 50 years. Black IQ's were going up on par with white IQ's, until the 70's. What happened in the 70's, you might ask?

Simple: DEMOCRATS happened. They enabled (as in "codependent enabling") the complete eradication of the black family. They created a system in which generation after generation of kids grow up in single parent homes, under financial stress, and in which the mindset of victimization is taught as a virtual catechism, and increased, Obama-esque funding is cited as the ONLY possible remedy, for the alleged wrongs of racism which make girls get pregnant when they are 17.

Welfare mothers use on average 600 words a day. The children of professionals hear some 2,500 words a day. IQ tests test, among other things, vocabulary. Why wouldn't the test scores of the welfare mothers be lower?

But, clearly, this does not then imply the test is "racist", unless by racist we mean something which tests your actual ability to use the English language properly. It implies a system in which historical values have been forgotten.

Black people in this country for the longest time were denied access to education. You simply couldn't go to most colleges. So after Emancipation, you had a bunch of black universities founded, like Howard, which were enthusiastically attended by people eager to JOIN and USE our system for their personal enrichment.

But now you have people like Jeremiah Wright, who explicitly CONDEMN such pursuits, as somehow "unBlack". To pursue "middle-classness" (his circumlocution for the proper Marxist term "bourgeois") is a sin. To agitate for "educational reparations" is a virtue. To agitate for more money from the "man" is virtue.

To learn to speak proper English, marry and stay married, and to live quietly in a suburb while spending time raising your family properly, is "inauthentic". It's a sell-out. It's "Uncle Tom-ism".

Educational achievement is a complex system. It involves the family, the schools (including the Administration: that argument makes perfect sense to me), and--most importantly--the cultural web within which all these things happen. It depends in large measure on the expectations of EVERYONE.

I personally see no reason the IQ scores of black Americans cannot be raised to be equal to those of white Americans. I don't buy Murray's fundamental pessimism. Why, one can reasonably ask, can IQ scores not go up indefinitely? Why can't each of us--or our descendents--not ALL achieve what only the best of us achieve now?

cb, Lewis Dunn, jwolfram:

Workout proposal
3 rounds for time
Bear crawl 250 yds
Manmakers (Burpee push-up with one arm-plank raise and finish with thruster) 10 reps.

Crossfit or not Crossfit?

2 RFT
Deadlift 165#(110%BW for me) 10 reps
Box Jumps 24" 30 reps

Crossfit or not Crossfit?

N.B. neither has ever appeared on the .com Main Page.

Barry and Bingo,

It is certainly not for me to decide what is and is not a Crossfit workout or Crossfit programming.

Re-read my post #118.

Realize that if a clear set of criteria are not provided to distinguish Crossfit from non-Crossfit workouts, then it's pointless to argue whether Crossfit workouts can be improved, or whether some non-Crossfit workouts or programming lead to a greater increase in work capacity.

Hey guys,
I want to weigh in on this just to back up Coach.

Coach gets it. If that isn't obvious none of you would be here. I am, like him, a fitness whore. I want what works. I have not been doing this as long as him so if he were to tell me i was wrong and to try something else i would immediately take a different path.

I have to admit that i am a bit biased towards the o-lifts as it has become my passion. I also feel it gives the most bang for the buck fitness wise. So i devote alot of time to it and feel that my fitness benefits.

Coach is 100% correct in being skeptical of something until it is proven effective. My goal is to win the CF games but my purpose is to have fun. If my training allows me to win then i'll take it and tell everyone what i am doing. If I lose i may change my training i may not. I will however continue to enjoy crossfit and try to help others become better crossfitters.

All i want is for the CF community as a whole to be the best it can be.

I love this stuff! Thanks for listening.

Dutch

Just finished the level 1 certification in Golden, and want to thank all of the coaches for the excellent instruction. This was my first exposure to some of the lifts and everyone was very patient in helping me get the form correct (especially Miranda) for working with my lack of shoulder flexibility. I will admit that I was nervous going into the weekend as I was not working out at an affiliate and I didn’t know a lot about the CrossFit community. What I found was a group of amazingly cool people (instructors and participants) that want to help people from all backgrounds become better athletes. Overall it was a great weekend and it surpassed my expectations. Now to borrow a quote from Todd “Game On!”

jwolfram,

The question, very simply, is "what differences make a difference?"

Broadly speaking, there is an enormous difference between CrossFit-like workouts--defined by Bingo--and the run 3x/lift 3x done by most of the fitness world, particularly since most of them don't do O-lifts or powerlifts other than bench press.

Our system, in that sense, clearly works. As stated, I don't expect ANYONE to show up at, much less perform well at, the CrossFit Games who has not done some version of intense, varied, functional training.

It would seem to me, then, that either your question has been answered, or you don't know what it is. We have defined what we mean by "CrossFit Stimulus". We have contrasted it with alternative approaches, for example that of cb, which do not appear to work as well at developing generalized work capacity across broad time and modal domains, which--to complete the thought here--is our definition of fitness.

The point is to traverse from Point A--our current level of fitness--to Point B--a BETTER level of fitness--as quickly and efficiently as possible.

It does not appear you are proposing an alternative to what is being done, or showing that what is currently being done is either contradictory, or not working.

This leaves me, at least, in doubt as to what exactly your point is.

Is it a vague dissatisfaction with a system which by design can be implemented by amateurs in a virtually infinite number of ways?

Actually, with respect to improving the programming, the question is really somewhat like that of carb reducing diets. We know that controlling carbs is desirable, but who has it exactly right? The Zone? South Beach? Atkins? Protein Power?

And if you Zone, should you eat whole eggs? Should you spread your carbs across the day, or consume many of them right after your workout?

Programming wise, does it make sense to focus fully on strength for some period of time? Or running? What is better, Starting Strength, Rutman's Max Effort Day, or CrossFit Strenght Bias?

These are the sorts of fine tuning questions that are being discussed. It's not clear to me you are following this at all.

Hi bingo #134,

Good question - are those workouts crossfit? if the only requirements are to be wide varied activities across time and modal domains, maybe then yes... i'm seeing the increasing issue here that pretty much anything could be considered crossfit as long as it is varied in length and mode and has a semi-random structure. If we can’t really objectively quantify what is crossfit then we can’t really determine what the actual effects are of following the program.

Granted there are good performers at the games who only do the .com, but there are at least equally good performers at the games who do their own variations and/or have a physical training background that includes a base of training very different to crossfit (Josh Everett and Khalipa are good examples).

Barry, I think the issue with lumping all lift 3/run 3 workout plans together is that they can be as varied in terms of content as so-called “crossfit” programs! I think if I posted my personal training program up here you would see that it is varied in time and mode thus similar to crossfit but also has a consistent structure from week to week and often compartmentalized training sessions (weights and cardio split up) similar to a lift3/run3.

One question to ask is that if increased time on a task leads to mastery or at least performance, then why would a structure like mine that puts more time on each task on a regular basis be less effective? If the motivation is there and solid programming is in place and emphasis is put on improving weaknesses, then isn’t the case even more strong?

cb,

To some extent I think we are talking past one another. Obviously, for anyone who has spent any time in a CrossFit gym, many things ARE in fact done routinely, such as CrossFit Warmups. Many people add supplemental pullups, running (CrossFit Endurance), heavy lifting (CF Strength Bias), etc.

So the question is not dichotomous. Many CrossFitters fully understand the need for supplemental, regular work with respect to their weaknesses.

At the same time, my own view is that the evidence is clear that to perform well at metcons, you have to do metcons.

Can you do OK at metcons, doing, say, hard sprint intervals, and progressive weight training? Probably. But the point is to do WELL, and the people who do WELL, almost invariably do a lot of metcons, coupled with frequent heavy lifting.

There is a page on the Message Boards for workout logs. If you want to tout your own program, post it, and allow us all to track your progress. I can't say without further information if what you are doing makes more sense that more traditional programming, but speaking as someone who's been around a while, I doubt seriously you are making progress as fast as you would be if you weren't trying to reinvent the wheel.

There are many ways to stay "in shape"--to stave off age, to stay healthy, to keep your weight down, and be able to be active.

But if your goal is excelling at CrossFit--let us define it here as your ability across all the Girls and Hero workouts, then it just doesn't appear to me what you are describing is well calibrated for that.

Again, I could be wrong. Post your workouts for six months, and at the end let's see where you are.

As rx'd:

225
225
225
225
225

(feeling weak today)

Hi Barry,

I definitely agree that many cf gyms incorporate different and regular training than .com however I feel that really isn't the true design of crossfit. At what point does the application of consistent training become contrary to the "wide and varied" crossfit motto?

I would be interested in your definition of what good metcon times are - logsitall top 100 or another perhaps more subjective rating? Others could weigh in on this as well on the major ones. I would be willing to train within my system and try to achieve such times although that probably wouldnt answer our questions.

I truly believe that a well designed program that covers all of the major elements of conditioning will produce greater results than onethat is oriented more towards a random schedule of components.

cb, Coach would agree. That's why CF is "constantly varied" and not "random"!

bingo - #134

Are those workouts Crossfit? I don’t think of workouts as being Crossfit or not. They certainly would fit into a Crossfit program, but so would so much else. We’ve seen 5k runs or rows, 150 wall balls for time, the Crossfit Total, 7x1 deadlifts, etc. Really almost anything that represents work could be part of a CF program (well, actually even rest days could be called CF workouts, I suppose). But I really have no idea what a CF workout is. Show me a month of workouts and I’ll offer my own rather arbitrary opinion about whether or not that month represents a CF program. What exactly is your point?????

And as to #143

“That's why CF is ‘constantly varied’ and not ‘random’!”

Are you talking about the mainpage WOD? If so, how do you know it’s not random? Can you describe the non-random pattern you see?

Lewis Dunn #144 re "Random"

See CFJ, I think it was around #4. Template for CF programming. My sense is that it has followed that pattern relatively closely over the 3.5 years I've watched. Can't say I've studied it closely enough to make a stronger statement, though, in all honesty.

Lewis Dunn, I agree. A more accurate question, more consistent with cb's and jwolfram's questions, would indeed be "Are these workouts Crossfit simuli?"

Owzat?

Bingo – Sure those workouts would be CF stimuli, but again, what isn’t? I mean, I know throwing darts might not qualify, but the spectrum of what qualifies is so broad that it really doesn’t seem worthwhile to ask what does, but rather what doesn’t. Even the odd workout of 3 sets of 8-12 reps of 6-8 exercises (which I, for one, was raised on) wouldn’t necessarily mean someone wasn’t doing Crossfit, as long as it was only tossed in occasionally and wasn’t the mainstay of the diet.

As far as the CFJ template that is so often mentioned, I am well aware of it. As I recall, the title of the article contains the word “theoretical,” and the article is also quite old. First of all, a lot has changed. Secondly, and more importantly, I have looked at several month-long postings of mainpage WODs and simply do not see the pattern described in the article. I have yet to see anyone point out a real pattern in any reasonably long series of posted workouts. I am more than willing to admit that such a pattern exists and that I lack whatever it takes to discern it.

One of the oft-quoted definitions of Crossfit includes the phrase “constantly varied, if not random.” I’ve always felt that the word “random” has not been fully appreciated by the masses. I think many followers feel that Coach Glassman spends agonizing hours each day coming up with the perfect WOD for the next day. I’m thinking he quite often kinda wings it. As we all know, on any given day, pretty much anything gets the job done.

Ran today, and then did some practive clean and jerks for for. Getting ready for Grace.

Bike 10 min

Ran 21 min

C&J's 7 x 111lbs
3 X 133lbs

Biked, ran, and then did some practice C&J's for form.

Bike 10 min
Ran 21 Min
C&J 7 x 111lbs
3 x 133lbs

Two points.

1. Greg Everett, I believe, once did a brief analysis of the Crossfit programming in an early year vs. a more recent year. He found that the number of strength workouts had increased significantly. (I don't have the link handy, but his analysis was posted on the Crossfit forum. Perhaps someone can find it and post a link?)

If Everett is correct, then Crossfit programming has undergone at least one significant change.

My point is that a clear specification of exactly what counts as "CF stimulus" is required to test the claim that no other programming (or no programming that omits CF stimulus) will be as effective as the mainpage WODs.

If MEBB were shown to improve performance on Crossfit benchmarks, would that be a refutation of the claim?

2. I've done two analyses of recent Crossfit programming. Each analysis looked at a three month period, each of which were in the last year and a half. I coded the workouts according the Theoretical Template article and found that the actual programming was nothing like what presented in the article.

Regarding the Harlem Childrens Zone.
The school deals with domestic issues by making sure the parents are involved in the process. They teach that early childhood development and improved communication at home is what it takes to develop a child to his maximum potential.

Again, what problem are we trying to solve here? Coach is a libertarian, and he is not trying to tell anyone what they MUST do. There is nothing cult-ish about this program, and if you look at, say, Max Effort Black Box, Black Box is a CrossFit concept, and Coach Rutherford is a CrossFit affiliate. Why on earth do people think Rip is such a large part of the program, if Coach somehow doesn't want the purity of his programming diluted with "fat boy" (I can say that, being one) stuff?

If cb wants to do his own thing, he's welcome to it. Most people in the world don't do CrossFit.

I would add, though, that is interesting that he chooses to talk about his programming here. To paraphrase Yogi Berra, if people don't want to do CrossFit, we won't stop them. But it would seem appropriate for them to do whatever they do elsewhere.

With respect to the topic of the day, it occurs to me that perhaps we need to expand our metrics. Ultimately, skill in math and English are presumed to lead to improved outcomes in the lives of students.

But do we measure this? I honestly don't know.

There are really two types of learning that happen in schools. There is the specific academic content!! Four Ecsample the proper use of sppeling and punctuation?

Lacking these, you distinguish yourself in an undesirable way in a potential work context.

However, there is also the "metalearning" implicit in the process. You learn punctuality. You learn self discipline if you MUST get your homework in on time. You learn proper etiquette, as in looking people in the eye. You learn respect for authority (yes, this is still a desirable trait in early adulthood).

All of these things matter a LOT, perhaps more than actual academic skill.

I just watched Men of Honor for the second time the other night. Carl Brashear had only made it to 7th Grade before he enlisted in the Navy. But he was able, through very hard work, to pass the exams he was given to become a Navy Diver.

Desire, persistence, self respect, honor: these things need to be in place as well. And we seem to do nothing to measure them.

And I wonder if we consciously teach any more anything we can't measure?

Some open thoughts there.

Here is an article on a video that really annoyed me: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/education/11stuff.html?ex=1257825600&en=ab20b1bbac6ac804&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=NYT-E-I-NYT-E-AT-0513-L1

It's being shown to our children. Now, no one can argue that a decrease in consumption would not be desirable for many reasons, but I had to stop watching when she got to the point where she said something like: "This is the Government. They look out for us. That's their JOB!!!"

This is the foundational fallacy of the Left. They assume that somehow Corporations are inherently greedy and unworthy of trust, and somehow people who make their careers in government are inherently on the side of the People.

The purpose of ANY organism is survival. Let us posit both corporations and the State as organisms. One of them uses resources in such a way as to maximize profits over a sustained period of time. If they run out of resources, they no longer have a source of business, so they husband them, in their own interest, as carefully as they can. Any business, in order to survive, has to be efficient, and has to deliver a product that people want or need, and for which they will pay.

The State is a consumer. It uses power granted it by the People to levy taxes on the People, which it uses to sustain itself. In good years and bad, in Republican and Democrat Administrations alike, it funds itself from the profits of corporations and individuals. Always. There is no other way to get money than to borrow it. But even that borrowing--like any borrowing--is backed by your actual income, your cash flow. And that comes from taxpayers.

Government jobs pay well. They have excellent retirement packages, and job security. You are protected from much of the demand for RESULTS which are the coin of the realm in private, for profit business.

Thus, you have a large group of people who have a pretty good deal, who want to keep it. So what happens if, for example, you are a member of a large bureaucracy dedicated to, say, mitigating "climate change", and you come across incontrovertible evidence that the data upon which all your work--your whole career--is based, is wrong? Completely, 100% wrong?

Honestly, I think this scenario has already played out hundreds of times, and clearly what happens is you keep cashing your paycheck every two weeks, and keep your mouth shut. You still have a job, and you can find some means of quieting your conscience.

Surely, for example, even if "global warming" isn't real, it is desirable to curb consumption?

The question, to me, is: "who should be making that decision?" And, "If the information upon which a decision is based is faulty, how can the decision be valid?"

We are being lied to. Our children are being taught that the State is a source of hope and positive change. What they are not being taught is that any State which is powerful enough to enact large, positive measures, is also powerful enough to enact large, autocratic measures.

And that is the direction we are going. We have given to "science" (which practically means scientists the media give air time to) the power to tell us what is true and false. We have given to these secular priests the same oracular destiny that was in times past given to medicine men, and priests, and Popes.

And just as power corrupted Popes, so too has it manifestly corrupted scientists, who are willingly adding their names to projects intended ONLY to decrease our liberties.

All of us need to wake up. It's later than you think.

Here's a good quote, from Samuel Johnson: "the chains of habit are too weak to be felt, until they are too strong to be broken."

Can anyone doubt there are social habits and political habits?

Crossfit Level 1 Cert, Golden Co

I'm just totally speechless how to put into word what this weekend meant to me. Coaching was great, instructors were great, info was great. It was truly the first day of the rest of my life. Crossfit for life!