If you're in the area, come join us for the Best Buddies charity event tomorrow, Saturday, 9 am-1 pm, at CF Los Altos, in Los Altos, CA. This is a non-profit organization dedicated to positive impact for persons with intellectual disabilities. There will be a WOD scalable to anyone's ability! If interested, please e-mail me or come on down!

Comment #1 - Posted by: Herm at April 24, 2009 6:02 PM

I need this rest day..

Comment #2 - Posted by: peter pan at April 24, 2009 6:03 PM

Alright....early post!! LOL

Comment #3 - Posted by: Jeremy M/27/6'3''/207 at April 24, 2009 6:07 PM

Make up day!

Comment #4 - Posted by: PraschFireC12 at April 24, 2009 6:08 PM

I'm at about 2:55 into the great basin highlights video doing HSPU. Woot.

Comment #5 - Posted by: Diehler at April 24, 2009 6:17 PM

Big day in Virginia Beach! Can't wait for the show... Good luck to my BBoy and my girl Jeannie!

Comment #6 - Posted by: AllisonNYC in VB_24/5'2/115 at April 24, 2009 6:18 PM

develop the necessary skills to injure your back !

Comment #7 - Posted by: Pedro Barrera,Scotland at April 24, 2009 6:22 PM

I think you have the wrong video from SEALSWCC. This one is talking about log drills.

Comment #8 - Posted by: EP at April 24, 2009 6:30 PM

Awesome videos posted for some of the Qualifiers.

EP- I was thinking the same thing!

Olympic Cert for Saturday/Sunday! I'm nervous and don't know what to expect! However, I'm just glad to be here and outside of a car after an 8+ hour drive by myself. My back and a$$ were not pleased!!

Enjoy your rest day everyone :) Definitely earned it after this cycle!

Comment #9 - Posted by: Eric Gohl 22/5'10/163 at April 24, 2009 6:36 PM

EP, the point of the video is that the gentleman responsible for the PT programming at the Naval Special Warfare Center just did what he would call a dead lift, but really it was more like a car wreck. It was funny that he was talking about "core strength" when it was apparent that he didn't have the strength or awareness to maintain spinal extension and protect his back.

I was around when this guy was hired on, I even sat at a cert that Coach put on for SQT students and staff that this guy sat in on and he basically spent the entire time trying to find a way to discredit Coach... he was so short sighted that he didn't realize that in his attempt he removed all personal credibility that he may have had all within his first week on the job... by the way, I think he came from a rowing background... nothing against the rowing community, I love them, but I don't think this guy can speak intelligently about training men that will have to carry 170 pounds of gear, and maybe a buddy wearing the same load, under fire...
I am guessing this was a find... I love that guy!

Comment #10 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 6:37 PM

john brown-
Now it makes a little more sense haha. I actually did notice and said allowed, "Rounded back??" and became utterly confused as to why this was being posted (thinking it was promoting the guy). Beyond that, I was wondering what he was really trying to accomplish by showing he could lift half of the log and drop it in the first place. With that kind of back story, i can now sit back and chuckle to myself :) Thanks!
I do give the man respect simply considering he was/is a SEAL. However, that alone doesn't provide the qualifications for "Director of Fitness" as shown here.

Comment #11 - Posted by: Eric Gohl 22/5'10/163 at April 24, 2009 6:48 PM

Big shout out to all the Returned Servicemen and Women in Australia and New Zealand as we celebrate ANZAC Day on Saturday 25th May, marking the day Australian and New Zealand Soldiers first set foot on the Gallipoli Peninsula in 1915

Comment #12 - Posted by: nick sydney m/37/6ft/185 at April 24, 2009 6:48 PM

It just gets better and better

Comment #13 - Posted by: Russ B at April 24, 2009 6:58 PM

The Great Basin Women's final video is one of the most suspenseful and interesting CF vids I have ever seen. I was on the edge of my seat like I was watching Kallista C&J BW x30!

Comment #14 - Posted by: Herm at April 24, 2009 6:58 PM

navyseals.com post a crossfit inspired workout everyday under the "get seal fit" drop down menu. They are pretty hardcore. My buddy and I use them as a supplement on rest days some time.

I dont know if it is just me, but the dude, Mike Caviston, I got a vibe from the video that he thinks he is better then everyone else and knows all there is to know about fitness. Kind of going along with what John was saying. I think that is one of the worst attitudes you can have in the Personal Training world. But hey, I could just be guessing, maybe he is a really nice guy.

Hope everyone enjoys the rest day. The last three days was an grueling adventure for me!

Comment #15 - Posted by: Flower Chalk Bag M/24/185/67" at April 24, 2009 6:59 PM

Great Basin Regional Qualifier Highlights - video is absolutely amazing. Love the editing, music, everything.

I was just struck by the movements at 1'06" and 2'09". Were those reps counted?

Comment #16 - Posted by: buretto at April 24, 2009 7:14 PM

Kudos to CF for posting two qualifier vids with only one curse word...and nice music, too. Call me a prude, but I think we hear enough vulgar and demeaning stuff on a daily basis on TV and the radio...and thank goodness there wasn't a song with free use of expletives plus the "H" and "B" word for the Women's Finals vid. Now, if we can redo the "Nasty Girls" soundtrack, that'd be a step in the right direction. CF posts these vids for a reason, one of them (I reckon) being so everybody, to include those who are being introduced to this discipline, can enjoy them in a public setting. However, for one positive step forward, there's going to be some idiot wearing a "Go F*ck Yourself" t-shirt with "CrossFit" all over the back of it thinking that they're promoting the CF culture when, in reality, they're setting it back by massive strides. Ay, carumbah.

Anyhoo, I confess: I cheated on yesterday's WoD because I didn't open up my hips at the top of the box jump on every rep. Actually, I'm not quite sure if that is mandatory (plus I was getting really tired and hungry), judging by Women's Qualifier movie. Hillari, the winner, didn't open up her hips once and she was getting off of the top of the box MUCH faster than Lisa, who opened up on every jump. Again, it all goes back to a shot group analogy. What kind of a shot group is allowed to count at the games? I'm just wondering out loud.

Regardless, both of the qualifer movies were fun to watch; the other-worldly athleticism of these contestants never ceases to amaze me.

Comment #17 - Posted by: J.T. at April 24, 2009 7:17 PM

Interesting that pace runners were allowed for the last run...

Comment #18 - Posted by: Dan Martin at April 24, 2009 7:22 PM

J.T.
Lisa jumps off of the box. How can you jump w/o opening your hips??

Comment #19 - Posted by: buretto at April 24, 2009 7:25 PM

I really need this rest day...after this cheat night...hahaha
5 chicken sausages
2 ears of corn
1 cup mixed veggies
1 avocado
3 12oz Beer
1 12 oz glass of milk
1 pint B&J New York Super Fudge Chunk and a spoonful of a couple of other flavors
I am full and going to bed. OUT

Comment #20 - Posted by: Gabriel Wright at April 24, 2009 7:28 PM

Reply to #20:

When Lisa lands at the top, she takes the time to stand up straight before jumping off. Now that you mention it, I guess when you quickly jump off of it, your body goes straight for a nanosecond, so maybe that counts as "opening the hips." I think the big question is, what is the ideal movement pattern for a box jump? Are we supposed to stand straight up on top of the box, just like we do at the end of any squat movement?

Comment #21 - Posted by: J.T. at April 24, 2009 7:29 PM

mike caviston is and was not ever a seal. nor does this say he was. he was a rower, that was hired by the specwarcen

Comment #22 - Posted by: Brian at April 24, 2009 7:32 PM

Has that guy ever been in the military?

Comment #23 - Posted by: Jason NWA at April 24, 2009 7:41 PM

As far as I know he was never in the Military, and was certainly NEVER a SEAL. I will say that again, THIS TOOLBOX IS NOT A SEAL... he was one of three guys that applied for the job, one of the others that threw his hat in would have been a much better fit, the students would have received MUCH better training and the world would be a happier place... most of you would know him, I think he works for UC Riverside...

Comment #24 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 7:46 PM

Just started crossfit last week
Body needs a rest day for sure!

Comment #25 - Posted by: jah_lyon at April 24, 2009 7:51 PM

#17 buretto

I can't speak for the 1:06 form, but I was the judge for Chris Spealler. Chris had several reps that didn't count and he had to perform over again. Even despite that he won all 3 WOD's by a substantial margin. He is an incredible athlete.

This competition was judged fairly and accurately and while I respect your right to second guess and critique a video while you have the ability to slow down and pause I invite you to volunteer as a judge next year and if you are qualified enough to get chosen try doing it live and in real time.

Give credit to the athletes and appreciation to the volunteers and if you aren't happy with the results, standards, or think you can do better...please do.

Comment #26 - Posted by: Jason at April 24, 2009 7:56 PM

I know Mike Caviston. He's an exceptional athlete. His own training showed unreal dedication. And he's a terrific teacher.

He is also strong-willed and independent. He's no kool-aid drinker, which no doubt explains some hostile comments here.

Comment #27 - Posted by: old bones at April 24, 2009 8:05 PM

Jason,
I appreciate your response. It was an honest curiosity question as to whether or not the reps were counted. I could imagine it being difficult to judge Speal since his stature makes it a small movement to begin with, he leaves the ground slightly at the top of his squats, and he moves so damned fast.
It’s good to know that you were there calling him on it and that the judges at the Basin qualifiers were qualified and chosen. I was impressed by what I’ve seen so far and expected the answer to my question to be a “No”.

Comment #28 - Posted by: buretto at April 24, 2009 8:16 PM

What are the chances the videos on the main page would become compatible with the iPhone?

Comment #29 - Posted by: David Griffin at April 24, 2009 8:16 PM

Pack:

Three rounds for time of:
Run 800 meters
35 Back Extensions
35 Sit-ups

Time - 19:29

Ran on treadmill. Back extensions two days in a row hurt my back. Time to rest.

Comment #30 - Posted by: BenUCSB at April 24, 2009 8:25 PM

Excellent job on the GB Qualifier videos! Those are some of the best CF videos that I have seen.

Comment #31 - Posted by: DWag_AZ at April 24, 2009 8:43 PM

Regardless of whether this guy is qualified to talk about SEAL fitness or not he makes one valid point "you must also prepare for the mental challenge." If you want a real good look at the SEALS read "Lone Survivor." It is easy as a Crossfitter to say we are easily prepared for the physical demands, but to perform said demands after days of no sleep, swimming in frigid water, being screamed at, etc. all while being offered the very easy path to quitting...whole different story. I dont give a hoot about his idea of fitness I got my Coach and thats it.

Comment #32 - Posted by: pelch at April 24, 2009 8:45 PM

had to do elliptical for the seccond two rounds ankle injury. Think that slowed me down quite a bit
32 min

Niki's 4 wod, think she is hooked.
she had to scale back on the BE (42, 15, 20)
41 min

Comment #33 - Posted by: mojo at April 24, 2009 8:47 PM

Also, the Mike Cavaston video I saw was on log drills, not him talking about the deadlift.

Comment #34 - Posted by: Matt_in_Oz at April 24, 2009 9:13 PM

So I will repost this since there is still confusion: EP/ Matt from Down Undah, the point of the video is that the gentleman responsible for the PT programming at the Naval Special Warfare Center just did what he would call a dead lift, but really it was more like a car wreck. It was funny that he was talking about "core strength" when it was apparent that he didn't have the strength or awareness to maintain spinal extension and protect his back.

I was around when this guy was hired on, I even sat at a cert that Coach put on for SQT students and staff that this guy sat in on and he basically spent the entire time trying to find a way to discredit Coach... he was so short sighted that he didn't realize that in his attempt he removed all personal credibility that he may have had all within his first week on the job... by the way, I think he came from a rowing background... nothing against the rowing community, I love them, but I don't think this guy can speak intelligently about training men that will have to carry 170 pounds of gear, and maybe a buddy wearing the same load, under fire...

Bones, I don't know anything about his training with regards to being a rower and I don't doubt that he was a good rower, maybe even great. What I am saying is this: one, rowing is not the same as being a team guy, not even close. And two, the movement pattern that has yielded the highest EMG reading for core muscle contraction is the dead lift, if you want core strength it is necessary, he didn't perform what would be an acceptable dead lift in most if not all affiliates, so the video lacks integrity...

Comment #35 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 9:20 PM

If that's it, then all I can say, is that the video is selectively picking things. He did not demo how to do a deadlift with perfect form. Maybe he knows and maybe he does not know how to do this, I don't know. The fact that he used poor form there proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He lifted a 180-210 pound log off from one end, while the other was still on the ground. That isn't very heavy. The higher he lifts one end, the more of the logs weight will be on the other/not in his hands. Since he is a rower (as people have posted) one could assume he has used his posterior chain before, and needed very little effort to lift the log. Maybe he hates Coach and Crossfit? Maybe he is a jerk? I don't know, or care, but what I do know, is that I agree with Steve #37, seems catty and petty.

Comment #36 - Posted by: Matt_in_Oz at April 24, 2009 9:31 PM

When the video of the Crossfit workout was shown last rest day(4-21-09), the 'Form Nazis' where all over it crying foul.

Watch today's video with that same eye and standard for 'perfection' and tell us what you see when he picks up that log.

Comment #37 - Posted by: Rob - Crossfit Camas at April 24, 2009 9:31 PM

Can someone help me out?

4th month doing crossfit.

Am hoping to give you all a run down on a couple of my physical problems for you to comment on how to improve/correct.

From day one of starting crossfit I have had excessive what i call "tightness" concentrated in the front deltoid of my right arm. Also I have had a overall tightness in the right side of my neck and trapezius.

It is most noticeable when I raise my right arm in a sampson stretch or when beginning pull ups or anything that puts my arm in that overhead position. However, the tightness goes away the more into the rounds or reps of pull ups i do, but returns within hours of any shoulder type workout.

During the day, I generally feel tightness in the right side of my neck and trapezius, but the front deltoid tightness or pain is not there.

As for history and other things I can think of that someone can use to describe what is wrong or how to correct myself, I have a lateral scoliosis with the left shoulder at least 1/2" higher than the right. I am a programmer and sit in a chair using a mouse a lot with my right arm (I have set my self as good as possible with ergonomic type adjustments). One of the things in Crossfit has turned my attention to in terms of imbalances and "chinks" is that my right knee likes to track to the inside and that on wall balls my left upper body gets a lot weaker than my right. I did break my wrist a couple years ago, but it gets better everyday, however is still always noticeable.

About 9 months ago finished a couple months of physical therapy for right hip pain and tightness and left shoulder tightness/discomfort (the left shoulder was caused by a brief stint with golf and no training) The hip came on after any kind running, short or long distance. The phD therapist only had to say that I had a week right glute and gave me 1hr of glute strengthening exercises and little league stretching in office 2 times a week.

The physical therapy never improved anything. And I never get worse, hence continuing on with crossfit wod's as rx'd. I still play golf but with proper training on swing technique left shoulder wasnt a problem anymore. Running still brings on hip tightness at front and in glute. The best thing I gained from physical therapy was from the non phD therapist that I got when my main one was out sick, and that was to use a tennis ball and foam roll on affected areas and to go hard into each of them for a few seconds. This always brings relief. The best stretch I ever did was also with this "substitute" therapist and that was lying on back with legs over edge of table, knees bent, and therapist holding one leg down and to midline, with me holding other leg to chest. Regardless of how much I would talk of the relief this brought me to my main therapist, she would rarely help me do it, doing it by myself its hard to replicate the effectiveness.

I have been doing crossfit main site exclusively past 4 months, and sports include soccer, weight training, cycling, dancing (learning salsa) and running. While doing crossfit Ive only been doing the dancing occassionally. Looking for ways to get rid of the right shoulder/ front deltoid tightness/discomfort/mild pain for now since it seems the most "curable" and would be interested in anyones further comments on what I can do further than what currently do to relieve hip the right hip.

My opinion on this without further guidance is that the definite imbalance I have to live with is the mild lateral scoliosis with left side higher than right, (all my problems are on right side with "tightness" type symptoms) and to get a deep tissue massage on those right side areas to loosen them up. I want to do this since this is the only money Ive spent in past that has done any good for me.

thanks all,

crossfit is one of the greatest fitness discoveries I have ever made and that the people in this community really "get it" and hope someone here will be able to help me with these "right side" problems.

Comment #38 - Posted by: albert at April 24, 2009 9:56 PM

QUESTION:
I have been zoning for eleven days. I am 28yrs, 5'11", 230, I just noticed that the past two days i have been feeling tired throughout the day. I also noticed signifigant strength loss during the deadlift wod. I have been very regimented with the diet and have weighed and measured all meals.

I know the body goes through changes but i dont have alot of experience with the zone and if these changes are to be expected.
Any input would be greately appreciated.

Comment #39 - Posted by: BabyPolarBear at April 24, 2009 10:02 PM

Dude,

That is an epic FRAT.

Comment #40 - Posted by: jakers at April 24, 2009 10:14 PM

Matt,

You are right, he never said he was going to do dead lifts, but he spent the entire video speaking to core strength (not posterior chain btw) and then he showed an inability to stabilize his midline while lifting a light load (as opposed to someone lifting 800 pounds in a competition, I bet all of them train at lighter weights with impeccable form and only break form at the larger weights and only rarely).

You guys are missing the point, and that is fine. I never said he hated Coach (how'd you get there?), I never said that he was a jerk (I said toolbox, and only when there was confusion as to his link to Naval Special Warfare, not rowing or training). What I said, and what I THINK the point is, is that this guy's job is to train NAVY SEALS (some of the most respected and revered fighting men in the world... or at least their own minds;-) and regardless of the load or lack there of, he was being inconsistent between word and deed.

Comment #41 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 10:22 PM

ahh...rest day. my "muscles" need it :)

yesterday filty-fifty

30 knees to elbows (20 anchored abs)
50 wallballs with only basketball (this was too easy)
50 tuck jumps (didnt have a rope, wich was a good thing at that point)
rest as ordered

time 38:24 that cant be bad for newbie :)

Comment #42 - Posted by: redrud at April 24, 2009 10:24 PM

#38 Albert

I had to do a thorough warm-up with my eyes. (Watching the Rachel Medina videos seems to get the blood moving nicely)Thanks for the paragraph breaks at least.

I think what you need is a Chiropractor who practices AK (Applied Kinesiology) on the extremities. If he/she used an activator gun that would be even better

It sounds like something is out of alignment and your muscles are working over time to get it back in position.

Comment #43 - Posted by: jakers at April 24, 2009 10:34 PM

Polar Bear,

Stick it out for about another 3-5 days, you are likely coming through the end of the bad carb withdrawls, not every one has this, some do and to varying degrees. If you are CrossFitting hard you may want to up your fats by about three times (multiply your fat blocks times three), this will help with the energy a ton. As far as the Dead lift wod, it may or may not be related, it could be rest/ fatigue or it could be that your body is still rebelling, give it some time, it is worth the effort.

Comment #44 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 10:35 PM

John Brown,
I have a question for you. I was in the teams in the 80s and went through BUD/S about 30 years ago. When did they start all the hand holding? Teaching log pt? We went out to the O course, took the logs off the log roll and did some PT with them a few times. It was more to teach team work and abuse us a bit. I don't recall any instruction. Just pick up a log, do some races etc.

Comment #45 - Posted by: Joe at April 24, 2009 10:35 PM

Joe,

I went through in 98, so not even close to 30 years ago (respect Brother!). I distinctly remember them teaching us how to pick them up in PTRR (before we classed up and started first phase). I don't know if I would call it hand holding after all it is still log pt and we still had ole misery (there is a new log called the "lie detector," basically a log cut into 6 or so sections and linked by chains, totally dimes out the weak link and is pretty devious). I am not going to BS, when I was an instructor I thought there were some "it was tougher when I went through moments." One class even had Hell Week secured on a Wednesday over an issue I won't talk about on this board. They have tried to make the abuse a little more relevant (building team work) and a little less damaging to the body. The bottom line is that Team guys are a hot commodity now and because of higher demand and higher rate of loss due to after market jobs, they have to get the numbers through...

Comment #46 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 10:44 PM

Nice vids from the qualifiers, awesome effort by all the athletes involved, especially Mr. Speal, wow.

Saw lots of people catching the cleans really low which must have sapped their energy, release the grip, finger the bar and elbows up = way easier to front squat the weight up.

Comment #47 - Posted by: grambo at April 24, 2009 10:47 PM

John Brown,
it is an ugly lift. I agree, no one lifts 800 pounds without knowing exactly what they are doing. Sorry, not "hate", you mentioned he tried to "discredit" Coach however or whenever he could.

I guess I did miss the point of the video. Was it to embarass him? Point out flaws in his job? Tell him he sucks on a open site? I love the crossfit programming (it clearly works - and well!) and the community. But I don't really understand why there is a lot of hostility at times. There seems to be too much attitude to people who different things. Maybe his way works great (I doubt it) but why bother bringing it up? Was celebrating how awesome Crossfit is (with those qualifier videos) not enough?

Comment #48 - Posted by: Matt_in_Oz at April 24, 2009 10:49 PM

I was at the Great Basin Regional Qualifier's and volunteered - it was an amazing event and completely inspiring. I have never seen people lay it on the line like I saw there - at times it was heart wrenching to watch - the passion, the drive, the dedication!
Thanks to everyone that competed, that judged, that facilitated, that cheered - this community is unbelievable!

Trish

Comment #49 - Posted by: discogirl at April 24, 2009 10:56 PM

Matt,

I think the deal is that Coach and Lauren have a very special place in their hearts for SEALs and they want them to be as prepared as possible to go into harms way. I think that they observed some tomfoolery on this guys part in maybe what was an attempt at a macho move (look guys, I can lift this thing!) and thought that it was ridiculous enough to showcase. What I know for sure though is that Greg and Lauren want the people protecting our freedoms (in the U.S. and globally as well) to have the very best, and this guy falls short of that measure for what those students need.

As an aside, when I was 21 years old I herniated two disks and fractured a vertebrae "interpreting" a dead lift with a 55 Horse power boat motor. As a result I spent 6 and a half years in pain... Maybe, just maybe if I would have had someone show me how to dead lift back then, that pain could have been avoided.

Comment #50 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 10:59 PM

fair enough!

Comment #51 - Posted by: Matt_in_Oz at April 24, 2009 11:09 PM

Lisa,
Great to see you at work! That was really inspiring to watch. I was at the L1 Cert in Puyallup WA about a month ago. Thanks for your teaching and your example.
We'll be looking for you at the Games!
Cody

Comment #52 - Posted by: PXT Cody at April 24, 2009 11:09 PM

good rest day after having my noob back destroyed

Comment #53 - Posted by: Rob m/21/5'6"/154lbs at April 24, 2009 11:28 PM

Those are some sick videos! Could have had better music but other than that, very well done. Thanks to all the judges and volunteers at the games. I think we had the toughest wods of any regionals so far. And I wish the camera didn't catch me resting so much haha

Comment #54 - Posted by: Devildog - SinCityCrossFit at April 24, 2009 11:30 PM

Nice video. What a home run it would have been if the guy did a modified clean. To err is human though, and we should all remember this.

Comment #55 - Posted by: Erik CrossFit San Elijo at April 24, 2009 11:34 PM

i read the article on the zoen diet how do i know if i am a small meadium or large male height? weight? whats up? thanx

Comment #56 - Posted by: ROB at April 24, 2009 11:44 PM

ANZAC Day - Lest We Forget

Re: Video. I love CrossFit. I'm an Affiliate and a staunch supporter. The bloke may be a tool and maybe shouldn't be training SEAL's but unfortunately this is something, that I feel, makes CrossFit look bad. Not cool.

Comment #57 - Posted by: Jason - The Cell at April 25, 2009 12:12 AM

To all the Diggers

Happy ANZAC day. Keep fighting the fight over there.

Comment #58 - Posted by: Pat M at April 25, 2009 12:37 AM

I think Lisa should been the winner. A box jump is supposed to be executed with full hip extension and one can watch in the Video how Miss Eaton does not do it. Much respect for all the Athletes but if we are to be the best at what we are we should do things correctly. I think if we start to do things like this, it will just lead to a can of worms and I'm sure Hillary did not mean to cheat, it just happened, but I think to be fair to the other competitors who were busting their asses getting full extension on the box. I'm surprised no judges called on this. In all you are all amazing and I congratulate you. Lisa has a super powerful kipping swing! So awesome to watch! Best of luck to everyone!

Comment #59 - Posted by: jimmy at April 25, 2009 12:40 AM

Nice Vid of the Qualifier.

Looks like some missed a box jump at 5:32 of the vid. Ouch! If you haven't ever missed in the middle of a WOD (I have) know that it will blind you for at least a minute! Big fun when you're pushing for time. Respect to whomever that is!

Posterboy

Comment #60 - Posted by: Posterboy at April 25, 2009 12:41 AM

no reason to bash the Caviston dude, imo

let's keep the workout videos coming

Comment #61 - Posted by: Pete - Decatur, GA at April 25, 2009 4:36 AM

5 hours left on my 24 hour CQ (charge of quarters...aka large scale baby sitting of grown ass men) shift. My eyes are a little strained from reading so many CFJ articles.

Zone question: Would it be better to do my body mass calculation using body fat % attained through calipers or a hydrostatic tank as opposed to waist and wrist measurements?

Comment #62 - Posted by: Hardman at April 25, 2009 5:10 AM

Could someone qualified please explain whether you need to have your feet still in full contact with the box when opening the hips into full extension at the top of the box jump or can you simply jump off extending the hips mid air?

Obviously the latter is far quicker and and when doing a workout with 90 box jumps could lower yout time by maybe 10-20 seconds. The difference between winning and loosing.

Comment #63 - Posted by: Gerard McAuliffe at April 25, 2009 5:37 AM

Regarding box jumps. Depends on the "standard" set.

At our affiliate, as long as the hip opens, it doesn't matter whether it occurs whilst standing on the box or as you jump off. That was the standard set at our Level 1 Cert attended by Coach, Nicole, Jolie, Jimmy and Todd. I have no reason to argue with that "standard"

Either way, it depends on what the "standard" is at your affiliate or event.

Comment #64 - Posted by: Jason - The Cell at April 25, 2009 6:16 AM

JB wrote:

"he basically spent the entire time trying to find a way to discredit Coach"

So he dissed Glassman and this is payback.

And you conlude your post with a reference to "integrity." Spare us the sanctimony.

Comment #65 - Posted by: old bones at April 25, 2009 6:21 AM

Thanks Jason, that sort of clears that up!

Once the standard is explaned clearly before hand i guess its upto each athlete to decide if they want to speed up the cycle by jumping off while extending the hips or not.
I'll be jumping off from now on, its much faster.

Comment #66 - Posted by: Gerard McAuliffe at April 25, 2009 6:23 AM

My times should be good today

Comment #67 - Posted by: Nathan at April 25, 2009 6:26 AM

Crossfit Video Team, Any chance of providing a share function to the videos so we can post them on some of the social media sites like Facebook. I'd love to spread the gospel of CF with some of these great videos! Awesome work on these!

Comment #68 - Posted by: PB at April 25, 2009 6:37 AM

#38 As I understand it that tiredness is most likely the initial release of something called AA (which are inflammatory eicosanoids). Symptoms such as tiredness, a decrease in performance, and headache are experienced by a vast majority of my clients who begin the Zone. Hopefully it won't last long as your insulin begins to level to a normal range. As you lower insulin levels and begin to burn your stored fat, the body is flooded by AA that has been sitting in your stored fat cells whcih makes you tired. The way to eliminate the tiredness faster is to temporarily increase your Omega RX dose and just keep pluggin along and sooner than later you will see a spike in your performance again. I am not an expert just a nutritionist who works with average clients to help drop excess body fat and increase crossfit/athletic performance.:) Take Care and the best to you in health and wellness.

Comment #69 - Posted by: Rebecca B at April 25, 2009 6:40 AM

great comment by jason about the judging and speal never fails to impress me, what an athlete

Comment #70 - Posted by: luke-cc CFvelocity at April 25, 2009 6:58 AM

For all of the box jump questions out there.

The standard was set prior to the competition starting and was gone over with each athlete. The hips must open fully while the heels are above the box. If you choose to stand up fully at the top and step off it is your choice and does satisfy the movement requirements. If you are going to jump off you have to open the hips while your heels are above the box meaning you will need to jump up as you jump of off the box.

To open fully at the top and step off is not a modification, nor does it necessarily have to be a slower movement. Sometimes, especially when coming off of a higher box it will take longer to absorb the impact and reset your feet for the next jump than it does to step off.

The WOD's for this regional were by far the hardest out there so far. I do hope that the same people who are critiquing these videos so closely, instead of just watching them for the appreciation of the display of heart that each of them put out there, had a field day when SoCal allowed Step Up's as acceptable for their box jumps which were 6 inches lower than Great Basin.

Comment #71 - Posted by: Jason at April 25, 2009 7:20 AM

Awesome video! Congrats to all the athletes who participated in this workout. It was easily the hardest qualifier out there. I am so proud of all of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comment #72 - Posted by: Cheri at April 25, 2009 7:39 AM

I must be watching a different video than jimmy (#58) and J.T. (#16). Hillari clearly achieves complete hip extension during her box jumps. The only thing that I can assume is that you guys mean that she is not standing up completely on top of the box before jumping or stepping down. This is obviously true but does not in any way invalidate her technique during the workout.

In the video, Hillari achieves hip extension in a different manner than Lisa does on most of the repetitions that they show her performing. Hillari used her push off of the box to achieve hip extension mid-air rather than standing up on top of the box as Lisa did (with all but one repetition shown in the clip). A very clear example of this takes place almost immediately after Amanda Mathew’s name fades off the screen in the beginning of the video. We see Hillari jumping off the box and using that jump to achieve complete hip extension (mid-air) before landing on the ground.

Both of the techniques used by Lisa and Hillari are legit, resulting in the movement of the athlete's entire body over the prescribed distance (the height of the box) while achieving complete hip extension before the athlete returns to the ground. The major difference is that Hillari's technique allows for a faster cycle time, something that the Box Jump Variations video on the Exercises & Demos page highlights while demonstrating the same technique that Hillari employed during the workout. (Lisa’s technique is also demonstrated.)

I wasn’t present at the workout so I can’t speak for the performance of every repetition, but from what I saw in the video, the reps looked legit.

Congratulations Hillari! You're a rock star and we wish you the best of luck in Aromas.

Congrats to all the other competitors, as well. Those were some killer performances.

Comment #73 - Posted by: Luis M. at April 25, 2009 8:08 AM

ive always sruggled with handstand pressups in the wod's and have always scaled them down or performed a deifferent exercise which works similar muscle groups. however after watching this video i felt the urge to try some, after completing a solid 2! haha i realised i need help, does anyone know how i can improve my HSP

thanks

Comment #74 - Posted by: luke-cc CFvelocity at April 25, 2009 8:17 AM

Michael w/ treadmill runs

22:58

Comment #75 - Posted by: mncross m/24/5'9"/150 at April 25, 2009 8:21 AM

Anyone know the name of the song in the beginning of the "regional qualifier video?"

Comment #76 - Posted by: bsifu at April 25, 2009 8:39 AM

Old Bones,

Mike Caviston has repeatedly stated that "CrossFit is the leading cause of injuries in the Teams", but when confronted by Team guys he could neither offer a source for his claim nor could he name a single CF casualty. The BUD/S record shows indisputably that there were no PT injuries associated with CF in what is one of the better tests of CF implementation to date. I think Mr. Calviston lied, ie, his statements are known to him to be false.

Mike Caviston has complained to the Navy that we are advertising that the Navy has endorsed CF. Not only is this entirely untrue, but I neither want nor need Navy endorsement. I WOULD NOT TAKE US Navy endorsement were it offered. The Navy brand is tainted by absurd alliances in the fitness industry and I'd prefer no association with these failed and failing fitness efforts. My commitment is to the shooter/sailor/soldier not the organization. His complaint about us claiming Navy endorsement is, I believe, another example of Mike Caviston lying - deliberately making claims he knows to be false. Perhaps he's not lying, but his desperation to find relevance in the face of the CrossFit groundswell at BUD/S has motivated a reckless disregard for the truth.

It obviously seems unusual, even disreputable, to many of you that we'd take on a seemingly swell guy like Mr. Caviston for what probably seems like no apparent reason. Truth is there are thousands of bad deadlifts to be found on the Net, but this is a very special case.

Here's what up. I've got a civilian fitness "expert", like myself, holding contract with the Navy, protecting his rice bowl, not with superior programming and attendant results/adaptations but with lies and distortions while his own skills, knowledge, efforts, and results are not only substantially below industry standards but recklessly irresponsible.

Mr. Calviston took our L1 cert and struggled through the whole thing. He is not, nor should he be a teacher of human movement. It was clear he'd never squatted, deadlifted, cleaned, or pressed. It was also perfectly clear that he'd never seen these exercises taught before. That's OK, everyone has to start somewhere, but when you add to this the fact that he is publicly demonstrating on public websites technique for the deadlift (it's dumb to suggest that this video is not a deadlift demo, Matt from Oz) depicting profoundly unsound and unsafe biomechanics while he repeatedly and falsely distorts the CF record, I have an obligation to expose the man. I've sat on this for more than a year and the less I say, the more I ignore the lies and attacks, the more frequent and egregious they become. This is a clear example of dishonest and unprofessional conduct being amplified and encouraged by a lack of defending response.

Let me be perfectly clear about this: teaching prospective BUD/S students, or anyone else, to pick up a log, or anything else, in this manner is dangerous. It is unprofessional. It is proof of inadequate training and education. This little bit of video is compelling and irrefutable evidence that the demonstrator does not understand the fundamentals and essentials of biomechanics. He needs more training, desperately, and immediately. He could also benefit from a course on business and general ethics.

Comment #77 - Posted by: Coach at April 25, 2009 8:48 AM

Glassman,

Why am I not surprised that you again resort to attacking the ethics of others? Moral superiority for time is x-fit's tactical response to doubters.

I know Mike. He's terrific--as an athlete, a trainee, and a coach. He also does it.

Post some video of yourself. Shirtless, like the rest of the xfit crew. That will show us all we need to know.

Comment #78 - Posted by: old bones at April 25, 2009 9:12 AM

Old Bones,

That seeing me naked is more important to you than ethics or the facts of the dispute is a suprise to me and "shows us all we need to know" about you.

If Mr. Caviston wants to do a side-by-side, shirtless, deadlift demonstration with me as a charity for Wounded Warrior Foundation, count me in. We'll videotape the demonstration and then you and Mike can "both do it" together.

Comment #79 - Posted by: Coach at April 25, 2009 9:29 AM

Okay, I used yesteday as a Rest Day by taking a spin class :^O and doing a totally-non-PR 2K row afterwards :^| Today, I really wanted to try the Michael, since I was going to be at the base gym anyhoo to help administer fitness tests to JAG reservists. That went very well, but by the time we finished up it was a bit too hot and humid for a guy like me to run on a rubberized track...so, to make amends, I did:

Karen w/ 12# MB (I wasn't feeling it for 20# this morning)

9:34...PR'd for this weight by 3'57"!

Looking back, perhaps I could've used 20#, but I'll consider this scaled workout to fall under the "constantly varied" tenet of CF ;^)

M/45/69"/198#

Comment #80 - Posted by: J.T. at April 25, 2009 9:49 AM

Coach:

I like your style, put up or shut up.

Thanks for your tireless defense of sound technique and for not compromising your ethics, regardless of circumstance.

Comment #81 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 25, 2009 10:03 AM

#71 Jason

no reason to be so defensive

people who posted about proper Boxjump form are asking a genuine question, not making an accusation, as I read the posts

sounds like you had a hell of a regional, congrats!

Comment #82 - Posted by: Pete - Decatur, GA at April 25, 2009 10:05 AM

Glassman--

Your whole point was to ambush Mike. Ethics?

Your lackey John Brown pretends that there is no bad blood, and has the gall to invoke integrity. His posts were duplicity itself.

Do show us your deadlift, but spare us the moral outrage after being called out for a conducting a sneak attack.

Comment #83 - Posted by: old bones at April 25, 2009 10:11 AM

Man, I miss Coronado, just to visit though.:)
Help me understand what I watched, I saw a guy demonstrate a submaximal DL on an odd shaped boject with a rounded back. I understand that, but I also know that there are many proponents of rounded back DL training at submaximal loads, even on the CF boards, as functional training, which piece am I missing? I'm not defending this guy, but I am curious.

Comment #84 - Posted by: robert D Taylor Jr at April 25, 2009 10:12 AM

I will take this rest day!!!

Comment #85 - Posted by: Leslie Alcon Flores at April 25, 2009 10:14 AM

Mad, mad props to the pimp a$$ women in the Great Basin Qualifier Vid!!! Insane!!! Looking forward to watching you all compete in July :)

Comment #86 - Posted by: Cookie at April 25, 2009 10:35 AM

Tom Rawls (Old Bones),

Yes, you are correct, my point was to "ambush" (I prefer the word "expose") Mike Caviston for both incompetency and dishonesty. That you think this is unethical speaks to your lack of character. You have a strange sense of decorum that looks, to me, indistinguishable from cowardice. None of this would be important were the stakes so very high. I'll not explain the stakes to you, but the truth is Mr. Calviston is hindering, and dramatically, the potential of operator's physical capacity. There are a lot of people in the way of optimizing operator capacity, but very few doing it with lies and spurious charges of injury from CF.

What is sneaky about my attack? Should I have posted a warning first? How can there have been longstanding bad blood and now it's a sneak attack. Think, man, think.

Your attack on John Brown suggests that there's more in this for you than anything that can be addressed by fact or ethics. You're emotionally and irrationally committed to the defense of Mike Caviston.

Mike Caviston may very well have been trying to "discredit" me the entire time of the cert, but it was most assuredly something he kept from me. He sat through two days of seminar as I repeatedly asked him for inputs, and he offered, repeatedly, nothing. On Monday after I'd gone back up to Santa Cruz he started running his mouth. If he had objections he should have had the confidence and courage to articulate them then and there, or maybe even to send me some inputs at a later date after giving the material some consideration. He did not. If he really gave two-cents about the men he's charged to support, he'd engage me rather than making shit up and pushing it around to those not in a position to know or see what is really taking place. His whining about CF.com and several other websites where Team guys are turning to for training information rather than to his silly "official" site, again, is more evidence of his lack of professionalism and competence. Imagine whining to Navy brass that the men aren't going to your site but others and then concocting a series of lies to buttress your case.

When we were learning the deadlift with PVC Mr. Caviston's back was as rounded just as it is in the video. He didn't have the neuro-muscular control or flexibility to squat to parallel without raising his heels. He couldn't hold the deadlift set-up posture and maintain a lumbar curve. His erg performance was bested by several students who don't row other than when it is required for WOD's. His best clean, with PVC, was no more than a rounded back stand-up and curl. He could BARELY swim. None of this is a fault or character flaw, but to hold him up as either coach or athlete is silly. It was crushingly apparent that Mr. Calviston does not understand nor has been initiated in the fundamentals of human movement.

I understand, accept, and even welcome, my unpopularity among many of you unable to follow along with what is at stake here and why this is worth upsetting what might otherwise have been a kumbayaa hand-holding sing along fitness discussion. Oh well. Keep hating me, please. On the topic of combat fitness I cannot help but speak my mind loudly and clearly, just as you can neither follow the discussion nor appreciate principled stances. Pleepleeus, Old Bones, I not only appreciate your animosity, anger, and accept your inability to comprehend what's transpiring here, but I'd be made quite uncomfortable if I had your support or appreciation. It takes all kinds, and you are the kind I'm glad I'm not.

Comment #87 - Posted by: Coach at April 25, 2009 11:02 AM

Old Bones,

I don't think it's my place to get involved in this but I just have a question for you.

How can you make such a low blow on a man who has done so much good for people? Ok, he took a "shot" at your friend but look at what Coach Glassman has done for fitness, Police, First Responders, Military and the average person. Can you say you have worked so hard to offer such an amazing open source fitness program? Or helped Armed Forces around the world? Your friend trains Seals, I don't know if he is good, but my point is Coach Glassman trains Armed Forces Members around the world. I think the testimonials, results, and charitable acts speak for themselves.

Old Bones, I don't know who you refer to as "us" but I think 99.9% of the people on this board are grateful to Coach Glassman and everything he has done.

Coach, Thank you for your efforts and commitment to fitness and influence over the military. I have had a chance to take a look at the Canadian Forces Combat Fitness Manual and it is awesome! Thank you for contributing your time to helping the Canadian Forces understand CrossFit and develop a fitness plan that will train us effectively and safely.

Comment #88 - Posted by: SeanB-H at April 25, 2009 11:18 AM

Nice videos from the qualifiers. The log video,however, was disappointing. Clearly its posting was nothing more than an adolescent attempt to stir up animosity toward some guy 99.999% of visitors to this site or any affiliate will ever encounter in any way in their lifetimes.

This video tells me nothing about this man, his athletic abilities or his teaching skills. Him struggling through a level 1 cert doesn't mean crap either.

Its a B-ll-Sh+t juvenile hit piece. Save the justification/rationalization. If you don't like the guy, get over it and move on. There, that's my Rest Day free speech contribution to the forum.

Comment #89 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 11:28 AM

Old Bones - Your critiques are asinine, as is your call for Coach to perform a deadlift.

I wonder if every time Bill Belichick critiques his players and shows them on film where they f*cked up during a game, either when Brady misses a read, or a running back misses a block, or a linebacker misses a tackle, they react the same way you did. You think they say "Belichick, you old fart, you can't even run 10 yards without dropping dead!" Yeah, me neither.

Here's a better test - I'll video MY deadlift because I learned it from Coach. We'll compare that to anyone else's you want. In fact, here's a video on youtube of me deadlifting 435. Not massive, but not chump change at 185, either. That was a year ago and in running shoes (like an idiot).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF4giRL3QZE

Coach's claim isn't about HIS deadlift (which I am certain is bio-mechanically sound nonetheless considering his leg) - it's about TEACHING the deadlift, and fitness more broadly, and claiming expertise at it. Caviston has claimed expertise - and attacked CF - and is a fraud in both respects. So are you.

So let's see your deadlift - tough guy - or MORE IMPORTANTLY - let's see some of your athletes' deadlifts. If you know half as much as you claim, you'll be able to understand the difference and appreciate why sub-par teaching, claims, and performance is neither desirable for our operators nor good for our nation.

If it's all about looks, as you claim, then we should have only bodybuilders teaching the SEALs, or only people who are cut and have a six-pack can teach the olympic lifts, or only people with big pec-tacles can teach rings and gymnastics... you do realize what an idiotic premise you've put forth now, don't you?

Look at the highest level COACHES in any sport, virtually any, and show me which ones have awesome abs or massive skill in that sport. You know any gymnastics coaches who can Actually execute what they're teaching their gymnasts to do? Football? Basketball - (I'll bet Doc Rivers still has a decent jump shot, but that's about it, and he isn't guarding LeBron). Ice hockey?

Go away, old bones, you troll, take your shoddy logic, insults, etc., back under the IGX rock and leave the fitness training to people who know about it.

Comment #90 - Posted by: Dale_Saran at April 25, 2009 11:30 AM

Once again, NSW astounds me with their ignorance. They had the chance to have an amazing coach in that position and they chose this guy.

Dale_Saran

Knowing how to pick something up off of the ground with your back in a proper position is not a high level skill. If this guy has some physical impairment that keeps him from picking something up with proper form, he should have had someone else do it. The fact that he picked it up like that shows that he has no idea how to move, and does not even have the awareness to know that it is wrong.

Comment #91 - Posted by: Ahmik at April 25, 2009 11:40 AM

Dale_Saran, I misread your post. I retract my statement and apologise.

Comment #92 - Posted by: Ahmik at April 25, 2009 11:43 AM

Ahmik - no prob. Probably my fault for bad syntax; I was posting hurriedly.

Comment #93 - Posted by: Dale_Saran at April 25, 2009 11:47 AM

And as seen by posts 89, 90, and 91, (amongst many others) the video was indeed successfull in triggering the desired juvenile mock-outraged responses. "Take your insults out of here, you Troll!" Makes me feel stupid just reading the posts. Give me a break

Comment #94 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 11:50 AM

pleeplus,

How is posting a link to a video that was already on the internet a "BS juvenile hit piece"? The comment that the video is "Mike Caviston's interpretation of the deadlift" is not an ad hominem attack by any stretch of the imagination. And by the way, google his name and you'll see that he's not shy about talking about his job training SEAL candidates. Criticism of videos *he* made of *his training philosophy* for *public consumption* is absolutely fair game.

The military-fitness industry complex is disgusting to me. There are so many hacks out there trying to make a quick buck. I was at the Marine South expo this week. For those who don't know what it is, it's basically a big annual trade show, marketed as an opportunity to "see the Corps' future", which is really a naked attempt by government contractors, some of whom have good products and some of whom are trying to flog goods that are unneccessary and/or of crap quality, to show Marines what they are selling so said Marines will ask their commands to get it for them. Anyway, they had a TRX band stall there. For those who don't know what TRX bands are, they're like a set of rings but instead of having rings at the bottom they have an unbelievably lame and weird strap assembly. Also, they're made of tan mil-spec webbing, were "designed by a Navy SEAL" and cost $150. The fact that the USMC is buying these crap devices, which are even worse than rings because you can't even do dips or muscle-ups on them, by the hundreds is beyond me.

Don't even get me started on the "fitness" programs endogenous to the military. I've seen them on Army, Navy, and Marine bases and what they all have in common is unqualified instructors taking people through unsafe movements (high speed half squats, etc) while intolerably crappy music (techno remix of Britney Spears, etc) is blasting on disco speakers. The day they abolish Semper Fit will be a happy day for me.

For those who think that Coach is stepping over the line for calling out people who suckle at the military's teat (and are paid with YOUR taxes) and in return teach bad habits to guys who are soon headed into harm's way.... take a moment to reflect on what is at stake here. I for one don't think it's a stretch to say that CrossFit has saved lives and will save a heck of a lot more as ever-increasing numbers of CrossFit-trained servicemen deploy to two-way firing ranges.

Keep it up, Coach!

S/F

Dan

Comment #95 - Posted by: Daniel-san at April 25, 2009 12:02 PM

Is there any place I can find a diet that most people follow?

Great rest day too!!

Comment #96 - Posted by: CoachMcK at April 25, 2009 12:02 PM

pleepleeus,

My annoyance with this guy is that for years we tried to get someone with some knowledge of proper movement and programing into a position to pass it on to trainees in that field, and they have repeatedly made bad choices in hiring. The other guy that was up for the job is an amazing coach. He actually was my brother's strength coach, and I have personal experience with his training.

In the past they went for a guy who sold them Hammer Strength stuff, then hired an indoor rowing coach with the justtification that they row boats, which they don't, they paddle.

Training these guys effectively and safely is incredibly important. They are what is standing between us and the terrorists. I did their exit physicals for years and they are all broken. Some of that could be avoided with proper technique instruction and conditioning.

I am out of that field now, but am saddened to see that they are staying on the same path.

Dale_Saran, No it was all my fault, I got mad at the video and started typing fast and completely misread who you were defending.

Comment #97 - Posted by: Ahmik at April 25, 2009 12:03 PM

shoulders and triceps

Comment #98 - Posted by: DNICE 34/M/175 at April 25, 2009 12:05 PM

Did the workout from the vid the other day.

5 sets of
275 Deads 5 reps
10 burpees

I did it with a 20lbs vest. Bad idea.

7 min 15 sec. Should have rested today, I am pretty beat.

Have a good weekend yall!

Comment #99 - Posted by: Nolan at April 25, 2009 12:06 PM

Bones,

First off, as is visible from your personal attack on me, you are still confused as to what I had stated. My mention of integrity wasn't meant to be sanctimonious, it was a mere statement of fact. Coach has integrity in that in his teaching videos that are on the sight, he instructs while someone performs the movement perfectly. As to my being a lackey, it appears to be you sir, not me carrying around a squirrel-like mouthful. My bad blood is with the Navy, not your benefactor. It seems to me that you are a keyboard commando, willing to say anything to make yourself look tough on line, well go ahead, I think your anger is falling on the deaf ears of cooler heads, for my part I wash my hands of this weirdness.

Comment #100 - Posted by: john brown at April 25, 2009 12:11 PM

Besides the log lifting, a few other issues on that Navy site would be interesting to examine.
When it came to push-ups, Mr. Caviston demonstrated that one should not hurry through them. The cadence was relatively slow, the better to let gravity have its effect, particularly as the athlete lowers himself to the ground. It would make the exercise more difficult and afford more benefit, was the idea.

The same was true with pull-ups; it was a controlled descent for greater training effect. (There was no kipping, and he did state that when it came time to test for repetitions, the pull-ups could be done more quickly.)

That was interesting, I thought at first. It's a different theory; they have their way of doing things. Then I began to wonder, if the controlled descents allow for greater training benefit, how could they demonstrate that? How could they quantify the added benefit? Would the athlete do more push-ups or pull-ups as a result, or would it be manifested in some other measurable skill or strength?

They're not just making a rough go of it under the assumption that more pain is more gain, are they?

I don't doubt that slow repetitions would make a BUD/S phase suitably miserable, but I question what the aim of those exercises are, testing whether candidates have the fortitude to make it through the program, or genuinely enhancing future Seals' capabilities.

Comment #101 - Posted by: TRN III at April 25, 2009 12:18 PM

I think the point that some people are trying to make is that it is not neccesary nor useful to show this video on the website. If this guy is a hack as some of you are claiming, which very well could be true, what is the point of posting this video on the mainsite for people who ALREADY do Crossfit? By no means is this going to get him to stop teaching for the Navy. It would make a lot more sense, and seem a lot less "juvenile", to go to the source instead of snickering behind this guy's back on a website that you own. Contact the navy, contact this guys program, call him out on his level. I fail to see how the means taken today would have any effect whatsoever on what this guy is doing. If I am missing something, please do explain.

*Save the needless whining/insult-throwing. If you can't formulate a response based solely on coherent thought, don't waste peoples time posting.

Comment #102 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 12:28 PM

Thank you Shawn, well said

Comment #103 - Posted by: Raiden at April 25, 2009 12:39 PM

22 / M / 5'9" / 135lb

I've been out sick for weeks, so I'm doing a couple scaled-down WODs to ease myself back in.

DT, scaled to BrandX puppy
3 rounds for time of:
45lb deadlift x12
45lb hang power clean x9
45lb push jerk x6

12:05

The CF warm-up almost done me in after so much time off. And even 45lbs fried my grip. Bad times.

Comment #104 - Posted by: BC at April 25, 2009 12:41 PM

When did crossfit start attracting so many playa hattas? We have standards. We weren't using UN Peace keepers to enforce the standards.

It might just be me but it seems like Coach is not quite as cutting in his responses as say 2 years ago when he would just blast someone. I miss it.

Dale,

Well said as always. You are younger than I thought you were. And I never thought I'd say this to another man but, you gotta nice snatch there.

Comment #105 - Posted by: jakers at April 25, 2009 12:44 PM

Shawn

This discussion is raising awareness, both within the crossfit community, and for those who google Mike Caviston. It represents another view to one Mike may present. He would have every opportunity to respond on his own blog or whatever site he uses to express himself publically.

I don't see a problem with it. If he has been making claims against CrossFit, then he has opened himself up to any and all rebutals. Keep in mind, this board is Coach's platform for open discussion.

Comment #106 - Posted by: Chat is boring at April 25, 2009 12:46 PM

Worked 400m Sprints
1:31
1:35
1:30
1:31
Rested 1 min. in between each set. I'll have to try when it's not so windy...felt like I was running on the spot;)

Comment #107 - Posted by: Julie F31/118/5'0" at April 25, 2009 12:46 PM

I know everyone is all amped over Mike Caviston, but I had no idea who he was until today's post and I'm not interested in learning any more. I think the guy at the end of the highlights video summarized my feelings towards Crossfit best when he said, "Crossfit will change your life. Form, function, versatility. Thank you so much."

Comment #108 - Posted by: Doc Mock at April 25, 2009 1:04 PM

3 wods today was brutal, but I’m glad we did it. We picked some brutal ones too.

1st - Row 2k, then 6 rounds of: 20 box jump, 10 wall ball

13:17

2nd - 6 rounds of: 30 squats, 10 chest to bar pullups, 5 clean to overhead (155#)

14:30

3rd - 5 rounds of: 7 deadlift (275), 30 squats, 7 HSPUs

Did 4 rounds in 20 minutes. This was by far the hardest.

Oh, and between wod 1 and 2, Pierre and I rolled 2 giant tires for 2 km. We now have a 150# tire and a 500# tire.

Can’t wait until tomorrow’s 6k run!

Comment #109 - Posted by: Kevin Wood - CrossFit Moncton (28/6'3/176#) at April 25, 2009 1:09 PM

Jakers

I dig your meaning of the word "Frat". My issue is how others on this board have interpreted it (defacto) as belonging to an esoteric clique of backslappers and well-wishers who clutter up this discussion board with their impulsive posts.

All the hugs and kisses posts were getting nauseous after a while... hell, I'd rather be subjected to another 100 posts of Herm's shoulder rehab....

Comment #110 - Posted by: Chat is boring at April 25, 2009 1:13 PM

Did Murph today to make up for the rest day and my lack of gym time.
53:00 as rxd
Yesterday was a 3 mile run then
3x 20 wallball
10 30# slamballs
20 1 pood swings
10 95# lat pulldowns in 7:36

slowly but surely back in shape i promise.

Comment #111 - Posted by: Danny Boy at April 25, 2009 1:18 PM

Re: Mike Caviston

Mr. Caviston may well be unqualified to teach basic functional lifts. If so, that's a shame. But as Coach intimated above, he is one of many underqulaified instructors in the US Navy, and the DoD in general. The bottom line is that his incompetence should not have that much of an impact on prospective SEALs, who should have taught themselves (or sought proper instriction on) basic lifting well before they show up to Coronado. Ultimately, a candidate's preperation is his responsibility, not the Navy's. In that regard, I'd like to thank Coach for helping me help myself. I started out with the WODs on this site, progressed to the navyseals.com WODs, and now do the FMPs on brassringfitness.com (a proper but kicking). Thanks again.

Also, John Brown, any advice sir?

Comment #112 - Posted by: Going to BUD/S in Oct. at April 25, 2009 1:32 PM

i thought in the qualifier they had to do a clean in jerk in this video? didnt they only clean it?

Comment #113 - Posted by: andy at April 25, 2009 1:32 PM

"Chat is Boring", (odd name to address someone as)

I understand your point, but allow me to rephrase what I was saying a bit more clearly. It would have made much more sense, and provided much more clarity, if there was some sort of article/descriptive piece explaining why the video was even posted. If Greg were to have written up something, filled with facts and not based on the personal animosity that some are claiming he has towards Mike, it would have appeared much less like a school-yard attack, and more like a mature "call to arms" if you will (epic run-on sentence I know, have a problem with those.) For example, I found his post where he talked about Mike's claims of crossfit injuring soldiers very interesting, but it's a shame that he decided to wait until an argument erupted to actually divulge such information. If this guy is the huge doucher that everyone is claiming he is, then by all means call him out. Let's just make an effort to call him out in a means that elicits a more intelligent response than "OmG what a horible deadlifte formz!!1!".

By no means is this a personal attack on you Greg, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't read it as such. I have close friends in the Navy, and am fully in support of them receiving the most efficient training possible.

Comment #114 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 1:46 PM

I'm waiting for anyone, someone to address my rebuttal to Old Bones' comments with something approaching logic, facts, principles, etc. All I have heard are the same non-sequiturs and ad hominems. I stand by my claim - can someone name an elite level (professional) coach who is known for his ripped six-pack? Does anyone contend, like Bones did, that a coach's physiognomy determines his competence?

Shawn, explain to me again why your view of what should or should not be posted prevails in this case? Seriously, you claim that it is "neither necessary nor useful" to have this video posted. You then offer your own views as to how Coach should go to the Command or the Navy, etc. You also do, at least, consider the possibility that you "might be missing something". You are.

Consider perhaps that the target is not Caviston, but other members, SEALs, BUDS candidates, etc., who are told that this guy IS "The Man." Now, if they look him up, maybe they can hear a dissenting view. In the military, people are not free to exercise choice in what they do with their time, even in regards to PT (frequently). Their command orders them to do X or Y program. I watched it for 18 or so years in the Marine Corps.

So, I would submit, Shawn, that your view of "useful" and "necessary" is (a) not controlling, and (b) not particularly convincing. I'm not attacking you, either, I'm merely pointing out that your view seems awfully narrow and you're awfully quick to pull the trigger against Coach, as are a lot of the people here who, to my recollection, have very little "equity" built up in this community to be making such broad claims.

"First seek to understand, then to be understood."

That should be this page's motto. In fact, over 3 years ago, it kind of was and the uninformed were frequently castigated for not reading the FAQ or doing the minimum necessary to be considered at least partially informed. And usually, it's cool to disagree respectfully with someone in their house when they invite debate, it's another thing entirely to (indirectly) call them fat and ask them to "take off their shirt" in order to prove the merits of their arguments about fitness. There's bad manners, and then there's being an a$$hole.

Comment #115 - Posted by: Dale_Saran at April 25, 2009 1:48 PM

Oh, I just realized coach called me out in his post. The old "You're too dumb to understand, boy I'm glad you don't support me" routine. I don't post all that often, but if you had the mind-reading and simple know-all-about-all skills you think you do, you wouldn't conclude I was a simpleton, and you would not conclude I was a hater. I'm a free thinker, not a kool aide drinker. Sometimes I will read a post from you and think, "Right on, bro." Other times I will think "What a bunch of crap." Type as loooong and as eloquently as you want, but me thinks it was a juvenile hit piece. Big words and condescending prose wont change my mind.

Comment #116 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 2:00 PM

Shawn:

I didn't see your second post until after mine. I'll just say that I disagree that Coach has to provide every fact about why a video is posted. In fact, I know that sometimes, as well as I know him and as often as I talk to him or see him, I occasionallly just whiff on why the video is posted. I just roll with it and add what i can, regardless of how the video hits me.

What I don't do is presume bad faith. I've found recently, there seems to be a trend of people coming here, whose names I don't recognize at all, either from rest days, the Boards, or from WoD posts, criticizing every piece that's posted, either for grammar or some other ridiculous way, and I've come to dislike coming to the Main Page, which used to be a staple of my diet.

It's too bad, really. Because I've met some tremendous people here, and then taken the time to find them in person in my travels. Like John Seiler in St. Louis, Bingo, A-Swab, Spiderchick, Eva T., Coach Burgener, Chris Kemp (in England), and on and on.

I am genuinely richer for the experience of coming here. I'd like to see it return to that and part of that begins with some recognition of what fundamentally this place ought to be. And I acknowledge, my vision is entirely my own, but it at least comes with some historical precedent.

Comment #117 - Posted by: Dale_Saran at April 25, 2009 2:01 PM

jakers, thanks for response to my post #38 above. -albert

Comment #118 - Posted by: albert at April 25, 2009 2:02 PM

I will admit though, I have no idea what "FRAT" stands for. I guess its a bad thing? Soemone school me please.

Comment #119 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 2:06 PM

Took much-needed nap yesterday instead of working out, so I decided to see what my Fran time was today. Last time I did Fran about a month ago I was getting over the flu and put out a depressing 15:34.
Today I did it in 8:49 (PR) so I'm feelin good.

Comment #120 - Posted by: Mikey / 20 / 5'10" / 167 lbs. at April 25, 2009 2:11 PM

The best coaches are not always the best athletes. Look at Rip and burgener. They aren't some tiny men with six packs. But they know what they are doing and can fix any problem. That's what separates these great coaches from Mr. Caviston. He couldn't fix something like a deadlift setup. So that's my take on it. I'd also like to thank Coach for helping me and countless others. Since starting CF a year ago i lost 30 pounds which I gained back the right way from drinking a gallon of milk (Rip's prescription) and my lifts have gone up a lot. My deadlift has gone from 215 to 310 and my back squat has gone from 135x5 to 300. These are not impressive to you all but as a 14 year old I think im on the right track. Coach what you've done for everyone is awesome and I enjoy seeing you ignore anyone who talks shit about you because they can't comprehend that you are a good coach, and that you've proven them wrong on so many levels

Comment #121 - Posted by: andy at April 25, 2009 2:19 PM

#110 Chat is Boring:

Big sweaty man hugs from the FRAT brother! Stay nauseous and bored if you want, but it's much more fun if you jump in with here us...the warm, sugary sweet water is just fine :-)

Same goes for you Old Bones, sounds like you could use a hug too...get over here you little rascal!

And CIB, I have a sneaking suspicion that you secretly LIKE the Frat. Kind of like I clandestinely enjoy listening to Celine Dion in my car at full volume...oh crap, did that just slip out? I'm so embarrassed right now.

F-it, see you all at Herm and Playoff Beard's party bus! Whoot!

Comment #122 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 25, 2009 2:21 PM

Pleepleeus,

Your claim that I think I'm a mind reader is one of the funniest bits of stupidity/irony ever posted here.

Do you understand that I don't think your mind is worth changing? Do you understand that the video was not posted for your benefit, edification, or entertainment? You are neither the intended audience nor have you been able to address any of the, what I think are, well articulated issues presented. You're the slow kid making farting noises under the adults' table.

For you the video will forever be a "juvenile hit piece" and nothing more. On that we can agree. Your understanding is clear to everyone.

Comment #123 - Posted by: Coach at April 25, 2009 2:24 PM

Wow, good one coach. Just re-read my post #117 I guess. Your post, #123, pretty much confirms what I already typed.

1) There clearly is an intended audience. How do you do not know I am not part of that audience?

2) If the video was not posted for anyone's benefit, entertainment, or edification, what, pray tell, was it posted at all?

I'll be farting and giggling in childish anticipation of what possible entertaining insult could be in store for the lesser-ones, the dissenters.

Comment #124 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 2:45 PM

Dale:

" I'll just say that I disagree that Coach has to provide every fact about why a video is posted."

So to clarify, you agree that Mike is doing a disservice to our troops and should be called out, but you don't think it's necessary for the REASON that he is doing harm to PT to be posted? There are two sides here, either a) this was posted to enlighten people about how poorly this man is trained for his position and the negative impact he is having on our military, or b) it was posted to be, as some are claiming, a childish attack. I would like to believe that the motives were more in line with the former; Mr. Glassman does not seem like the type to carry around immature grudges and start internet name calling for no reason. From your posts, I would assume that you think it was also put on the mainsite for these reasons, to inform the general public or those in the military of what a shoddy job this man is doing. So how in the world do you rationalize there not being a necessity to give a full clarification of this mans faults in term of the training he is passing along? That is EXACTLY what is relevant to the discussion at hand.

When you say you don't presume bad faith, I'm assuming you are talking about what you read posted on the mainsite? No doubt you are a bit more skeptical if you are reading/viewing something on a page owned by a group you have no prior affiliation with. Well that is the case for those who may never have heard of crossfit. If some prospective SEAL candidate just happens to google Mike Caviston and come across this page, would you rather him find a random video posted with no explanation on a site he has never heard of before, or find a random video + a detailed and carefully written article based on facts explaining the faults in his methods and views?

I'm not sure why you think I'm "pulling the trigger" on Greg? Yes, people are making stupid comments about shirtless deadlift competitions between him and Mike (why the **** that was ever brought up, I have absolutely no idea) and other ridiculous, ad hominem attacks. I'd rather not be grouped with such idiotic and disrespectful posts. I felt it would be more helpful if a little context was added as a preface to the video. Yes, that is my opinion, which is exactly why I stated it but am still open to discussion. I would actually be very interested now in learning more about Greg's recollections and experiences with Mike.

Comment #125 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 2:46 PM

Oh jeepers, #1 was supposed to as "How do you know I am not part of that audience?" More dumb-guy insults en route, no doubt.

Comment #126 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 2:47 PM

Reply to Comment #122:

Hey Blayoff Peard, where the heck is MY hug?? Huh? HUH?! I mean, for the love of God, I set a PR today in an honest-to-goodness bona-fidey WOD (Comment #80)...okay, it was scaled, but anysways, why isn't anybody giving ME props?! (sobbing heavily)

Comment #127 - Posted by: J.T. at April 25, 2009 2:54 PM

JT

Big side hugs brother.

Here's a tissue, Yeah I know it looks like women's panties. You can put them on when you are done crying. :-)

Comment #128 - Posted by: jakers at April 25, 2009 3:05 PM

JT

Big hugs man, good work.

Let's get that weight up to 20# and your time under 8 minutes...you can do it!

Now stop crying and get after it :-)

Comment #129 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 25, 2009 3:30 PM

pleepleeus at 2:06 PM

FRAT-F@#$ Reading All That

Chat is boring at 1:13 PM

I kind of like the new format of FRATing your tribe. I think it does apply b/c as you've said not everybody wants to read 4-5 lines of screen name shoutouts. But if lets say 3 people came on and gave you a shout out everyday you would look for them.

I like hearing about Herm's shoulder. Call me kookie. Not cookie. That's his full frontal hug.

Mark G. at April 25, 2009 1:50 PM

Big Side hugs brother.
Crossfit is what Crossfit does. Coach gets to make the decision about what we do. For the people that have said today's video about Mike C isn't very Crossfitty they are wrong. It may not represent their personal world view but it is the view of crossfit. It may not even be the view of the majority of crossfitters but it is still crossfit. This is an open source system not a democracy.
That is my FRAT to get to this point.
I know the desire to just post the numbers you can post to Beyond the White board or logsitall for that. There is going to be human interaction here. I like that part. If we just posted the numbers it would be no more exciting than reading the phone book.

That said Mark G and Chat is Boring (Chib not quite a chub)I hereby adopt you as members of the FRAT. There is no escape. You will be side hugged. If you're lucky a couple of the more voluptuous crossfitters will give you really tight full frontal hugs. That's what I'm hoping for at the Games.

Comment #130 - Posted by: jakers at April 25, 2009 3:30 PM

Made up Michael today, as rx'd: 20:44 (pr by almost 2 mins!)
runs on tm; back ext on GHD; unanchored abmat situps

Comment #131 - Posted by: Raine at April 25, 2009 3:33 PM

Maybe this shows up my own ignorance / dumb cavalier attitude, but had I seen Mr Caviston lifting up one end of a log like it was a serious lift, being careful to keep proper lumbar curve, keeping his chest up, taking a big breath and holding it etc. then I probably would have laughed at it and though it was over the top. I thought it looked pretty straightforward. Maybe I need to start taking all such lifts more seriously before I do myself an injury?

Really liked the CFG video. The musical selections are getting very interesting - really liked the bit of opera with slo-mo earlier this week and now I like this medley. Can't wait to see Every Second Counts and can't wait for the Games.

Peace.

Comment #132 - Posted by: J1 at April 25, 2009 3:34 PM

Any news from the Mid Atlantic qual?

Comment #133 - Posted by: jpratt at April 25, 2009 3:42 PM

Only one solution for the Coach/Caviston beef; they compete directly against each other in an agreed upon WOD.

Justin

Comment #134 - Posted by: Justin Smith at April 25, 2009 3:49 PM

Not sure what all the hubbub is about the FRAT posting. If your too stupid to realize that a post ranging from 15-20 lines is probably not JUST about what someones time was for the WOD, I fail to see how that is anyone elses problem. I just have this picture in my head of some tool sitting at home on their computer, slowly reading through one of the many side/front/up/down/northeast hugs and kisses posts that are always huge paragraphs, and than at the end proclaiming "F***, I thought that post was just going to be about their WOD time!"

Comment #135 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 3:50 PM

pleepleeus,
I can tell by your posts that you are not a "dumb guy". However you are annoying as hell. I have read every post you have written and they remind me of a kid I knew back in the 60's. Every time someone would try to explain an issue to him he would bounce off on a new side track so he would not have to listen to common sense. He wound up being a well known politician with a reputation as an overbearing a**hole. I would hope for a better future for you; try listening and digesting what others say before responding. I like this particular quote; "Some people talk because the sound of silence make them uncomfortable". Try not to be one of them my friend.

Comment #136 - Posted by: roger at April 25, 2009 3:55 PM

this is a stupid, boring argument. here's something a little more exciting, Kyle Maynard getting some love from ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=4093672 . good luck Kyle, hope you kick some ass in your MMA debut!

Comment #137 - Posted by: Scott at April 25, 2009 4:26 PM

Wow, I guess Roger pulls some weight 'round these parts. My first ever deleted post. It was a dang good one too. I'd laugh it off, but its actually pretty disappointing.

Comment #138 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 4:31 PM

Hey Kevin #109. I was wondering why you all did 3 WODs. Any reason in particular? Getting ready for the CF games/qualifiers? Just totally pumped for the day? Is it part of a training regiment? It seems to me if you're able to do 3 WODs in a you'd be a shoe-in for the CF games.

Comment #139 - Posted by: Doc Mock at April 25, 2009 4:37 PM

Man, so much hate these days.

No rest for the wounded:
Bench press 6x3 @ 165
Shoulder press 5x5 @ 85
10 bar MUs for time: 3:06
Should've been well under 3 minutes, but I wrenched the daylights out of my thumb on rep 8. I have no idea how it snuck under the bar on that rep, but man, was that not so comfy!

Comment #140 - Posted by: Natalie at April 25, 2009 4:39 PM

The Best Buddies Crossfit Challenge raised $15k. Thanks goes out to all who attended and performed the WOD. Cynthia from Sunnyvale, you did great!

"... hell, I'd rather be subjected to another 100 posts of Herm's shoulder rehab...."

Comment #110 - Posted by: Chat is boring at April 25, 2009 1:13 PM

Thanks for asking about my shoulder, Chat is Boring. Side hugs, bro, welcome to the FRAT. :)

This will be my final 5 weeks of strictly physical therapy for the left shoulder, Chris went ahead with some aggressive manual manipulation therapy with active ROM, and gave me a new set of daily exercises:

UBE: 10 minutes, alternate fwd and bkwd each minute
Prone on Elbows external rotation with peach band 3 sets of 10Clock position extensions 6 to 12, with peach band, 5 rounds, 3 sets
Lying scapula punches 10# dumbbell 3 sets of 15 each arm
Quadruped stance shoulder flexion w/ 3# dumbbell 3 sets of 10
Sleeper Stretch (Posterior capsule stretch) 3 sets of 30 seconds each arm

Doc visit, 11 week post op follow-up. Doc stated that all is well and better than expected. 5 more weeks of therapy and I will be free to ramp up the workouts accordingly in June!
---------------------------------------
Comment #135 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 3:50 PM

Best post ever!!!

Comment #141 - Posted by: Herm at April 25, 2009 4:43 PM

You know, I really have nothing to add here. Which pretty much makes this post a classic FRAT I think.

I gotta say, though, that any Rest Day with a 1/2 dozen Coach posts and more than one from Dale Saran?! Well, count me in for the duration.

And for the record, I am planning on being in Aromas. I will be actively seeking hugs from ANY direction from Cookie, Pony, Fitmom, and pretty much any CF woman.

Side hugs from all of you guys, though ;=)

Comment #142 - Posted by: bingo at April 25, 2009 4:54 PM

Before you criticize the ROM on these videos remember that you can't hear the judges and don't actually know if the rep was counted. I'd say virtually every athlete had at least one rep discounted on each workout and often many more. Nice job to LRay, Hilari, Speal, and everyone who participated.

Comment #143 - Posted by: Damon Stewart at April 25, 2009 5:00 PM

Man, I got to take part in an amazing first day of the Oly Cert and get to come back to some good stuff up in here too!
I'm loving the defense of the "FRAT" posts, I was seriously cracking up at some of the responses (jakers, Playoff Beard, Herm, bingo, etc).

In further explanation of the FRAT posts: It is, and I hope never will be, a hard-lined "exclusive" list of certain posters on this site. It is open to anyone and everyone. Personally, I throw in anyone who i feel like i want to comment on what they posted (for whatever reason that may be). Some may be included more often and vice versa, but in no case should that administer feelings of being "left out" or us being "grouped in". Community is a part of this site and it is your choice to partake or not. This is why I always star and cap "***FRAT***" at the beginning of such posts separate from my times. This is also why your mouse has a scroll button *GASP*!!

By the way, Coach Burgener and his staff are awesome and this Oly Cert is TONS of fun. YAY BURPEES! AH-OO!

Comment #144 - Posted by: Eric Gohl 22/5'10/163 at April 25, 2009 5:07 PM

Someone update me please.

I attended a level one cert earlier this year in northern California; one of the instructors (Team guy) had said that CrossFit was the training program for BUD/S students. Has this changed, or was it never fully implemented?

I agree that CrossFit training has caused some injuries, but those injuries were likely a result of going too heavy too soon; poor form; improper or inadequate instruction; and/or inadequate rest/diet.

Our bodies need time and proper rest to develop elite fitness. Sometimes it is nessasary to take more then one day off for ever three days on, especially for those new to the CrossFit methods, or those like myself that are over 40.

I am grateful that CrossFit exists. My physical fitness and general wellness has increased as a direct result of my proper CrossFit training. My service to those for whom I am employed to serve and protect has also increased as a result of fewer sick days, and fewer job related injuries, and greater motivation to work hard and stay motivated. How do you put a price tag on that? You don't.

If I were Coach, I would resist the temptation to use this public forum to discredit anyone. It never has its intended result. Those who sling mud, even when righteously slung, may eventually slip in it themselves.

Comment #145 - Posted by: Greg/M2 at April 25, 2009 5:21 PM

Greg/M2-

I had Andy at my Level 1 Cert and he said that he implements Crossfit methods with the team he trains, and with amazing results. However, I think that may be about as far as Crossfit goes for BUD/S. Don't quote me on that, just going by what i know/remember.

Comment #146 - Posted by: Eric Gohl 22/5'10/163 at April 25, 2009 5:35 PM

Coach, is there any way you can have the "enlarge image" link on each day's post point to the actual .jpg file rather than a webpage with the image? If you were to set it up that way, users could set their browsers to automatically scale the images if they were larger than the user's screen, and they would have the option of zooming it to full size. Right now, regardless of browser settings, the images are always at 100% size which can be annoying if the image is particularly large.
Just something to think about. Thanks for all the work you do.

Comment #147 - Posted by: Mike at April 25, 2009 5:40 PM

#141 Herm

Haha Im honored. Who knows, maybe one day I will aspire to join the distinguished club of FRAT posters. For now though, I will be sated in the fact that I finally mastered the butterfly kip. Life is well.

Comment #148 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 5:51 PM

Coach: Any wod/rest day scheduling advice for us mainsite followers who are competing in regional qualifying events. How should our wod schedule change as the competition date approaches?

Thanks

Comment #149 - Posted by: difchip CFGP at April 25, 2009 6:00 PM

Looks like a few people came here looking for a fight... again. I wonder if there is anything at all which can be posted without someone pointing fingers and calling names, usually in the name of "defending" some poor helpless soul who cannot defend himself. Now, don't get me wrong, I like a good fight as much as anyone, especially when there's blood (best if it's not mine, but I'll take what I can get), but this seems a strange place to come looking for one. Hell, maybe I'm crazy, who knows. It sure would be nice to see a little point/counterpoint, rather than point/cheap-attack-poorly-disguised-as-a-counterpoint. This is kinda like watching B.J. Penn beat up a fifth grader.

One point in particular I find compelling:
Comment #130 - Posted by: jakers at April 25, 2009 3:30 PM
>>Crossfit is what Crossfit does. Coach gets to make the decision about what we do. For the people that have said today's video about Mike C isn't very Crossfitty they are wrong. It may not represent their personal world view but it is the view of crossfit. It may not even be the view of the majority of crossfitters but it is still crossfit. This is an open source system not a democracy.

Ever have someone tell you that you aren't acting like yourself lately? It's kinda dumb, when you think about it. What they are really saying is that they didn't know you as well as they thought they did. Telling Coach that something he posts on the main site isn't representative of CrossFit sounds about the same. All you're really saying is that it isn't representative of what YOU think CrossFit SHOULD be. That's entirely different.

But even that would be just fine if someone could come up with a compelling reason why it SHOULD be so, rather than: "Its a B-ll-Sh+t juvenile hit piece. Save the justification/rationalization. (pleepleeus at 11:28AM)” or “... the video was indeed successfull in triggering the desired juvenile mock-outraged responses. 'Take your insults out of here, you Troll!' Makes me feel stupid just reading the posts. Give me a break (pleepleeus again, at 11:50 AM)” or “...the point ... people are trying to make is that it is not neccesary nor useful to show this video on the website.... [which would be a valid point, but reading the previous quotations, and all the other posts, I see something different being said...goat] By no means is this going to get him to stop teaching for the Navy. [was this posting meant to be the coup de grace to his career? ...goat] It would make a lot more sense, [only assuming the answer to my previous question is “yes” ...goat] and seem a lot less "juvenile" [is it juvenile to demonstrate that the person who is attacking one's integrity and methodology may not know what he is talking about?...goat], to go to the source instead of snickering behind this guy's back on a website that you own. [it IS an open source website, and the guy has gone to a cert and it's reasonable to presume he knows of the existence of this site. In fact, isn't “snickering behind this guy's back” exactly what Coach is saying this guy is doing in regards to CrossFit? ....goat]

*Save the needless whining/insult-throwing. If you can't formulate a response based solely on coherent thought, don't waste peoples time posting. [the preceding quotation makes this the funniest close ever, in my opinion ...goat] (all of this was Shawn at 12:28, except for that which was mine, now)”

So, right or wrong, Coach and Dale_Saran and others defend one side of the argument well, and this is probably the best out of what the other side offered. So much for debate.

One interesting thing which was said (forgive me for not looking up the original poster, I'm essentially a lazy person) was that it would have been helpful for Coach to explain the back story as part of the video posting. Maybe, maybe not, but the mention of it did highlight for me the fact that before the “opposition” had anyone, or any statement, to oppose, they had decided that Coach or HQ or whatever had a personal beef with this guy and were childishly out to make him look bad by taking pot shots at him. But the only thing posted was a video which the man made of himself. Any comments, Dr. Freud?
---------------------------------------------

Hey, jakers, on an unrelated note, if I ever get my fat ass to the point where I show up in one of these videos posted on the main site, at some qualifier or something, remind me not to go read the posts that day. People are brutal here. Sensitive souls like mine can't take the abuse.
-----------------------------------------------

Oh, by the way, this is a FRAT post. Just want to warn you.

Comment #150 - Posted by: Goat 33/M/193/6' at April 25, 2009 6:13 PM

**************FRAT ALERT************************
Raine- woman! great Michael time. You are definitely NOT eating pork roll LOL I am down the shore again today I'm going to the Stone PONY tonight :)
jakers- You are going to the Games? :) More frontal hugs yay
CHiB- welcome bro. What's your Linda time?
Eric- what is with you and burpees dude? How can you be a FAN of burpees? Is there a club on facebook for that? Thats like being a facebook fan of laughing (Cookie- I'm throwing you under the bus on that one)
Herm- I miss your shoulder rehab updates! And you have amazing taste in women :)
PB- Celine Dion?! That is like me admitting I love Lynyrd Skynyrd. That fell out of my mouth one day and I have yet to live it down :)
SoxFan- so glad to hear your pops is enjoying CF. Yes, don't try to correct 10 things at once!
Shawn- way to be on the BF kip. Every superhero has a nemesis- mine is the kip! Good for you.

My mom 77, deadlifted 14# dynamax ball x 10 and THEN after one demo, cleaned it! Nice beach WOD with mama & pops today. :)They carried 14 and 20 # d-balls to beach (mama had the heavier one, pops is not as strong) and we goofed around in the sand, crawling, climbing ropes and running back and forth from the *freezing* surf. Mama did some headstands but got dizzy. Good times :) it used to make me sad when I thought of my aging parents becoming like little children again: I go to the drs with them, walk slower so they can keep up, hold their arms when we cross the street. I used to wish they didn't have me so late in life. Now I see how that is a good thing, they are so comfortable in their skin, they didn't mind looking silly on the beach and we laughed so much my cheeks hurt.

Comment #151 - Posted by: Strong Lil Pony! at April 25, 2009 6:14 PM

After all the deadlift form talk in the past week has done anything, it has made me realize how bad my form is. For that Coach, I thank you. Only after the past week of endless posts on rounded backs and poor lumbar support did I realize that I may be on the path to serious injury. On the last heavy DL day I pulled 375 and have now realized how DUMB I was for it. I will be reducing the weight way way way down and work on fixing myself.

So what is the point of all this? Despite the bickering that has gone on, some good has come out of it. I have a hard time imagining that I am the only one who has put serious thought into the form of their lifts after all this bad form talk. If you haven't thought about it, please do. I'm sure your back will thank you later.

Comment #152 - Posted by: Runningstrong at April 25, 2009 6:16 PM

Comment #122 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 25, 2009 2:21 PM

Funny thing is, I always had you pegged at a Celine Dion fan. Something about you...

Comment #153 - Posted by: Goat 33/M/193/6' at April 25, 2009 6:18 PM

Herm,

Awesome work with the Best Buddies event. The amount of good that Crossfit does in the world is difficult to wrap the mind around. It's usually only through a centralizing of power that kudo's are given but it is through a decentralized/federated model that the most good is done. My hat is off to you.

Comment #154 - Posted by: jakers at April 25, 2009 6:30 PM

As someone who is new to cross fit, I read through all this jargon today. This is the best soap opera ever. If this is what I have to look forward to on rest days, I might stop doing endurance stuff in the morning and just start typing! Coach, thanks for putting a program together that I have been dreaming about since I first got my trainers certification. Coming from rural South Carolina/ USMC Beaufort... I have trained with Marines and trained Marines since I was 16, and have seen first hand the lack of proper form and short term thinking in their training style . Terry Butts (USMC Marine Athlete of the year 2001), was my first REAL coach and I thank him for instilling a burning fire to destroy myself and others in the name of physical amusement. I appreciate your dedication to improving the knowledge of not only our military but the general fitness community.

Mark

Comment #155 - Posted by: Kruegs at April 25, 2009 6:41 PM

Warning, this might be considered a FRAT post :)

#141 - Herm, I had fun today and am glad my little contribution helped fuel a REALLY nice amount of funds raised! $15k is amazing! For those who haven't cruised over to the CrossFit Los Altos website to check it out, this was a fundraiser for FITBuddies, a program for individuals with special needs including Down Syndrome and Autism.

On Saturday, September 12, Team FITBuddies will be riding down the spectacular Pacific Coast Highway from Carmel to the Hearst Castle in San Simeon in the fourth Audi Best Buddies Challenge (a 100 mile ride). Today was the kickoff event, and it was absolutely wonderful to see these kids and parents working out together, and people of all sorts stopping by to contribute and do a WOD.

Thanks, Herm, for giving me the A workout instead of the easier B WOD :) Yet another opportunity to I remember that it is really important to have people around me who ask more of me than I do...

And Strong Lil Pony, how cool that you and your parents are having fun together like that! What a gift to all three of you!

Comment #156 - Posted by: Cynthiaj in Sunnyvale, CA (46/F) at April 25, 2009 6:43 PM

M/32/6'2"/195

rest day run 30 minutes 3.4 miles

deadlift practice

Comment #157 - Posted by: doubleTLE at April 25, 2009 6:43 PM

Goat,

I have often thought if Coach wanted me to go away and never be heard from again he would post a video of my attempt at a WOD as RX'd.

We've been spoiled with video's of virtuosity. As Todd Widman said at a cert when it's 75 degrees, balmy winds and everything is good in your life, virtuosity is difficult. At the edge of your performance limit it's almost impossible.

But what we have witnessed today is clearly some virtuosity in the complaining department. BRAVO. I hope you whiners write home to mom and dad about your accomplishments here.

Strong Lil Pony!
All signs point to me attending the games. I've claimed a camping spot underneath the PB&J Party Bus. I can't wait to redeem my full frontal hug.

Bingo,
I've just upgraded you from a Fist Bump to side hug at the games.

Thank God Herm is almost done with PT. I'm tired of being embarrassed by a guy doing the wods with one arm. I mean reality has nothing to do with my ego but come on. The poor little thing can only take so many assaults.

Comment #158 - Posted by: jakers at April 25, 2009 6:45 PM

Dirty South Results for BGI
Male Competitors= 95 Female Competitors= 40 Results from day 1: Jenni: 1 Dana: 12 Maddie: 14 Traci: pending ( finished all WODs RX in time) Dave: 12 Todd: 39 Jeff: 42

Found this on the BGI website. No updates yet on dirty south qualifiers website

Comment #159 - Posted by: hacksaw at April 25, 2009 7:00 PM

The Great Basin vids were great to watch, loved the women's final. Tough ladies.

Anyhow, having completed my first month of Crossfit I'm in love. CF is helping me make a better version of myself through hard work and optimism.

Humbled, inspired, and in awe of how far I have to go. Basically, fired the f&*k up!

Comment #160 - Posted by: Namir/27/6'2"/202 at April 25, 2009 7:08 PM

I liked #17 by J.T.

Awesome & inspiring vids!

Comment #161 - Posted by: Sabby at April 25, 2009 7:24 PM

Had no idea you were so clever Goat. So glad we could start this circular logic train up again, thanks. Who needs midterms when intellectual rigor is just a click away on the comments page.

In order of what you quoted from my posts,

1) I was not referring to the people who were blatantly making rude comments and immediately siding with Caviston. I was referring to the people who were not sure what the relevance of such a video was, especially without some context. It does indeed appear to be a video just making fun of some random guy attempting to lift a log without a back-story. Yes, let me guess “what makes my opinion automatically correct”? It is a very simple matter of interpretation, I never said that I had tangible proof that 100% of people would take it that way, just said that is how it would appear to an uninformed bystander. Should I apologize for attempting to interpret how people were feeling about the video? I can feel the tears coming now, my shame is unbearable to say the least.

2 and 3) The tone of the conversation was that it should be clear that the man was doing a disservice to incoming candidates for BUD/S. It’s a fairly simple deduction then that the prevailing thought is he should either fix what he’s teaching or stop teaching altogether. If we were having a conversation discussing the current president’s term and I were to tell you that I completely disagreed with his policies, thought he was a horrible representative for the country, and was altogether a less than ideal man, would it make much sense for me to then follow with “Oh, I don’t think he should change what he’s doing, I just think what he’s doing is horribly wrong for our country.” Coup de grace to his career? I’m not sure how much your life focuses around this comment board, but I can assure you very few careers have ended based off internet forum talk. It was an interpretation (*gasp*, one of those again!) that Greg was indeed concerned with the faulty product this man was selling, and that that somehow tied in with the reason for why the video was posted.

4 and 5) Look closely, those symbols surrounding the word juvenile were quotation marks. I never claimed, nor do I think, that the posting of the video was a juvenile attack; I was once again speaking with regards to those who were making the claim that it was such. Reading comprehension, it’s invaluable my friend. Additionally, it would truly be “snickering behind his back” if nothing was posted explaining the relevance of this mans position in training military personnel. Like I said roughly, oh I don’t know, 5-10 times, I’m all for calling this guy out before he gets someone hurt, but I fail to see the importance of just elbowing each other in the ribs while we laugh at his log lift. Greg’s posts giving an explanation of the man’s background were very informative, I also already stated that. Small caveat, being aware of the existence of a website by no means equate to being aware of if you are talked about on that site, that’s a ridiculous statement to make. If you carefully monitor every website you’ve ever been too, that’s impressive but slightly disturbing.

6) Seeing as how I never personally attacked anyone, I fail to see what you loosely interpreted as irony here. In fact, when I said that it was directed at those who were making comments about Greg’s personal appearance and how he probably couldn’t deadlift at all. Forming one large paragraph out of mine and pleepleeus(sp?) posts was quite clever though, if you ignore the fact that I was in no way agreeing with what would be the majority of his statements of course.

Yours Truly,
Dr. Freud

Comment #162 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 7:28 PM

M/36/5'10"/183

48 ounces of rest day beer = 48 burpees.

Debt paid in full as Rx'd:

3:24

Comment #163 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 25, 2009 7:37 PM

rest day spent surfing.

Comment #164 - Posted by: mr blue at April 25, 2009 7:54 PM

PB - I like your beer/burpees. I am a recovering Catholic, but I think we used to call that penance.

Shawn- Dr. Freud? ROFL That was funny. Put down your cigar! Get over here. You need a hug. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grpcBsgORTM&feature=related

Cynthiaj- lucky you working out with Herm. Yes I have fun with my parents!

Comment #165 - Posted by: Strong Lil Pony! at April 25, 2009 8:04 PM

That video...was amazing. Props to you for finding/knowing about that haha. If I ever meet a living Dr. Freud, I'll be sure to pass it along.

Comment #166 - Posted by: Shawn at April 25, 2009 8:35 PM

Dale,

That's and enviable dead-lift (and haircut).

I don't think you should banish "Old Bones".

If you will read the last two paragraphs in Greg Glassman's ("Coach's") post at #77 you will see that it is reasonable for someone to conclude that he was at least implying that Mr. Clavichord (or whatever the Navy Seal fitness dude is named) couldn't do certain lifts (squat, clean, deadlift, press) and had actually never done them. Given Coach's comments at 77, and the fact that he posted a video of Clavichord lifting a log on a beach at the end of a segment that obviously wasn't intended to be instructional, it seems understandable that Old Bones might suggest that Coach should post a video of himself doing certain lifts. Old Bones' comments at 78 seem like part of a tit for tat sort of exchange. Also, it seems that if Old Bones is the Clavichord's bulldog then you are Coach's.

Whether a coach, instructor, teacher etc should be able to do the thing she teaches depends on the level of the student she is teaching. If you want to teach the average five year old to play piano, it seems to me it would be useful for you to have mastered some minimal threshold level of piano technique . But, if you are the instructor of, say, a 15-year-old Glen Gould, your own technique is likely well below that of your student, and your role is to critique, enable and instruct without actually doing the things you are enabling your student to do.

It seems to me the vision of the x-fit posting page is confused, but this may be more a reflection of my ignorance than any real confusion on the part of the people who manage it. What does Coach hope to do with this page? I'm curious. Of course he need not tell us (I wouldn't expect it). I understand there is Clavichord who is upsetting Coach for some reasons (and hurting his business interests?), and now Clavichord is here on this page in a video posted by Coach, and the video looks to me to b some sort of promo/info that no navy seal hopeful would think about for any period of time (btw, do the navy seals admit women?). The critique of Mr. Clavichord seems so emotional, off the cuff, personal. "Post thoughts to comment" - is this page supposed to be an opportunity for Coke drinkers to post their thoughts on Pepsi?

I imagine that being a coach also means being a teacher, and I've always liked teachers (especially in the field of adult education of which x-fit could be included) who ask questions of their students, and then help their students to discover the answers, instead of telling their students. From my perspective Crossfit is a tremendous brand, a tremendous "product", and really really fun. Why should Coach fight the Clavichord here? obliquely? in a way that might diminish the integrity of his brand (which to a significant extent is "Coach" himself)?

Comment #167 - Posted by: Prole at April 25, 2009 10:49 PM

Dale,

That's and enviable dead-lift (and haircut).

I don't think you should banish "Old Bones".

If you will read the last two paragraphs in Greg Glassman's ("Coach's") post at #77 you will see that it is reasonable for someone to conclude that he was at least implying that Mr. Clavichord (or whatever the Navy Seal fitness dude is named) couldn't do certain lifts (squat, clean, deadlift, press) and had actually never done them. Given Coach's comments at 77, and the fact that he posted a video of Clavichord lifting a log on a beach at the end of a segment that obviously wasn't intended to be instructional, it seems understandable that Old Bones might suggest that Coach should post a video of himself doing certain lifts. Old Bones' comments at 78 seem like part of a tit for tat sort of exchange. Also, it seems that if Old Bones is the Clavichord's bulldog then you are Coach's.

Whether a coach, instructor, teacher etc should be able to do the thing she teaches depends on the level of the student she is teaching. If you want to teach the average five year old to play piano, it seems to me it would be useful for you to have mastered some minimal threshold level of piano technique . But, if you are the instructor of, say, a 15-year-old Glen Gould, your own technique is likely well below that of your student, and your role is to critique, enable and instruct without actually doing the things you are enabling your student to do.

It seems to me the vision of the x-fit posting page is confused, but this may be more a reflection of my ignorance than any real confusion on the part of the people who manage it. What does Coach hope to do with this page? I'm curious. Of course he need not tell us (I wouldn't expect it). I understand there is Clavichord who is upsetting Coach for some reasons (and hurting his business interests?), and now Clavichord is here on this page in a video posted by Coach, and the video looks to me to b some sort of promo/info that no navy seal hopeful would think about for any period of time (btw, do the navy seals admit women?). The critique of Mr. Clavichord seems so emotional, off the cuff, personal. "Post thoughts to comment" - is this page supposed to be an opportunity for Coke drinkers to post their thoughts on Pepsi?

I imagine that being a coach also means being a teacher, and I've always liked teachers (especially in the field of adult education of which x-fit could be included) who ask questions of their students, and then help their students to discover the answers, instead of telling their students. From my perspective Crossfit is a tremendous brand, a tremendous "product", and really really fun. Why should Coach fight the Clavichord here? obliquely? in a way that might diminish the integrity of his brand (which to a significant extent is "Coach" himself)?

Comment #168 - Posted by: Prole at April 25, 2009 10:52 PM

Thank God Coach has been sidelined to Arizona. There's something inherently wrong with the posting of the video, that has the same look, feel, and taste of "you hurt and embarrassed me, so now I'm going to sic my big brother on you".

Give me a break. It does all of the current public face of CrossFit HQ, all of the wonderful videos, journal pieces, new trainers, et al a disservice to have this petty piece up there. Greg Glassman, grow up. You created something with open source, but don't suffer from the hubris that is apparent when you are challenged for what is obviously viewed by some as petty use of your vehicle to conduct a personal attack on someone, whether or not they are deserving of it is a moot point.

Grow up, or get out of the way.

By the way, I love your WOD's.

Not the other Koolaade BS.

Comment #169 - Posted by: Sarah at April 25, 2009 11:32 PM

Did Micheal today, when I had finished on the tack went into the gym and got roped into another Wod. Pedro wanted to to do 21-15-9 Hand Power Squat Cleans and burpees. Could not face anymore burpees so they were changed to ring dips. (thanks)

time 13min 46sec.

Used band for ring dips and HPSC at 35kg

c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon that was all I heard for the whole wod. no drinking, no stopping, next he will be asking me to stop breathing, at least I would not be "gabaminute" then. (still can't belive I got called that compared to the other usual suspect)

btw just heard Theory of a Dead Man- I hate my life on Kerrang. Most of the song was missing, bleeped out. Great. Still not heard Greenday.

Good Fun

Comment #170 - Posted by: Elaine in sunny Scotland at April 26, 2009 8:27 AM

Prole, Sarah,

Caviston is having zero impact on my "personal" and financial interests, but his impact on the safety and operational readiness of future operators is significant and profoundly negative. He could best serve our country and the world by going back into academia where nothing he does will ever matter to anyone.

I cannot and will not give the specifics on the damage to operational readiness that Mr. Caviston has produced. I wish I could but cannot, will not.

Let me try to make this clear to both of you. BUD/S students and SEAL/S are regularly injured in the course of their training and duty. You all read in these comments where a former dive medical officer, a Navy MD who has worked extensively with BUD/S students and SEAL/S, explained that CrossFit, in his opinion, has mitigated this risk. There is incontrovertible empirical evidence to support this physician's opinion. Mike Caviston in his search for relevance has contributed to that injury rate by 1. not teaching fundamental biomechanics essential to life and operational readiness, and 2. lying and otherwise interfering and sabotaging those who are trying to teach these biomechanics. The video proves the first contention and the discussion here, in comments, peripherally explains, deliberately vaguely, the second contention.

That this is difficult to comprehend, or is confusing, or was inadequately explained here, or was poorly received is and was entirely unavoidable. I posted the video and undertook the assault on Mr. Caviston for very carefully calculated reasons, perfectly aware that you and others would call this a travesty, unfair, childlike, immature, unbecoming....I've accomplished all I hoped to achieve in this effort and consider each and everyone of your objections and complaints as necessary and collateral damage. This website serves aims that can hardly be comprehended or appreciated by the overwhelming majority of the posters here. Oh well.

Comment #171 - Posted by: Coach at April 26, 2009 8:34 AM

I posted a lengthy response to Prole and Sarah that has now become obviated by Coach's post.

Let me say this, however. Prole - I always appreciate your posts, both for their thoughtfulness and reason. Coach has said more succinctly what I tried to earlier (lost connectivity) - there are reasons for why things are posted that may not be apparaent to all. Heck, it's rarely apparent to me, but I will say that I once held your opinion several years ago on an issue, but when I found out the back-story, I thought differently about it. I was at least glad I had minded my manners in my criticism, something people who presume their own righteousness unfortunately do not do.

Sarah's comments are merely a harsher version of your own (irony knows no limits - read her criticism of Coach and then read what she wrote). But the bottom line seems to be that Coach and CF should "take the high road". Read your last line and some of Sarah's - the sentiment is the same - CF should play only by Roberts Rules of Order.

This, for me, may be a reasonable sentiment, but it is hardly a universal ethic that Coach can be called out for "violating", particularly in the context of what is happening. We can disagree about that point, but I will note that no one yet has claimed that Coach is factually wrong or that the point he makes is invalid (about the training of our troops). In fact, those who know, agree.

The only criticism offered is that Coach is "juvenile" (or some other such term), which is really a non-sequitur. Is he incorrect? Sarah gets it exactly backwards when she says (oops, said - it's gone) that Caviston being wrong or deserving of the criticism is "moot". It's exactly the point. This website is NOT the government - it's CF's homepage and Coach's platform. Coach may have a 40-grit personality at times, but he's no dummy and as he notes, there's always a reason.

Comment #172 - Posted by: Dale_Saran at April 26, 2009 9:55 AM

This website serves aims that can hardly be comprehended or appreciated by the overwhelming majority of the posters here.

wot duz this mean

Comment #173 - Posted by: Dummy at April 26, 2009 10:53 AM

Dale, who are "those that know" who agree? Please direct me to the known seal's post here that agrees. A non-seal businessman in the fitness profession states that a seal instructor of some sort is endangering the lives of soldiers. That's a pretty serious attack on a person, let's see some direct evidence of that, let's see some actual soldier back up this claim with facts. I haven't read any facts here, just one-sided charges with the supporting evidence being nothing more than "You're too stupid to understand, I'm deleting your post."

Yeah, I don't understand what the problem is with this guy. Coach admits it was a calculated assault on the guy, under the pretense the guy is endangering the lives of soldiers. His long and eloquent put downs don't make it true. An inoccuous video of the guy lifting a log proves nothing, and pretending it does is ridiculous.

Comment #174 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 26, 2009 12:11 PM

Dummy,

You and posters here are, for better or worse, the studio audience, and neither the show, nor the total audience. You're full engagement props for the total, larger, purpose.

The posters here are approximately .01% of the total traffic.

This business has programs, relationships, contracts, and staffers internal to scores of municipal, state, Federal, and foreign agencies that next to none of you here know anything about and will never hear about. We use the site to affect whatever aims we desire. It won't always make any sense to you all and I don't care even a little bit.

Note: Sara's post was removed for blinding stupidity. I've requested that it be put back because her opposition makes me look good.

Enjoy the show.

Comment #175 - Posted by: Coach at April 26, 2009 12:19 PM

Pleepleeus,

You are making the claim that instinctively reaching for an object with the lumbar spine in full flexion does not make the point that the man doesn't know how to move functionally or that the movement pattern is dangerous. To you it "proves nothing". Yeah, OK.

You and Sara are invincibly ignorant and I greatly appreciate your participation. You two ought to get together and raise a pack of dimwitted CF trolls and every time I post you could all log on and be the straw-children opposing my POV. I'd consider paying you two to post.

Let me reiterate: I don't give a rat's ass if you or any other poster here believes me or not. I do think it peculiar, however, that you think I'd risk this business by making claims that I can't provide clear and compelling evidence for. It may even be more peculiar that you haven't noticed the ties CF Inc has to the community we're claiming knowledge of.

Comment #176 - Posted by: Coach at April 26, 2009 12:48 PM

Pleepleeus:

I was talking about military folks generally and the posts above. Daniel-san (a Marine) noted his support, I've got 18 years in the Marine Corps, and Ahmik Jones was a dive medical officer at Coronado, and also agreed.

So, what do you have?

Comment #177 - Posted by: Dale_Saran at April 26, 2009 1:44 PM

As stated earlier, I don't always oppose your point of view. On this one I do, obviously. Remember, I'm a free thinker, not a kool aide drinker. So here we are, I disagree with the Rest Day assault on the guy, and I view it as a juvenile hit piece executed for purely self-serving egotistical reasons. You refuse to provide any backing evidence, so I come to that conclusion based on what I am presented and what I learned for myself. And based on your childlike schoolyard bully personal attack responses to any and all dissenters implies that you do, in fact, give said rat's ass if people believe you or not.

One could argue ad nauseum what the purpose is of posting a discussion topic if the opposing view is demonized and deleted by the supposed moderator.

On another note, I googled the name Mike Caviston yesterday so I could try to learn for myself what the deal was. One hit directed me to a parallel forum used by seemingly actual seal operators who were talking about THIS thread. Some of the hostility toward crossfit was shocking to say the least. Don't misjudge my opposing view as hostility to CF. I love CF, and think you put together something phenomenal. I think you're a pompous immature egomaniac at times, and a giving charitable philanthropist at others. Today you are the former, and I don't care that you don't care what I think. So, umm, yeah, there.

Comment #178 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 26, 2009 2:07 PM

Dale - I was asking for direct evidence to support the coach's side. Are there any seals here who have worked around or under the guy? You provoked me to reread numerous posts, including Daniel-san's. D-S makes points against the state of military fitness training as a whole. I can't, and didn't argue against that. A glance reveals that only one poster, Old Bones, stated they know Caviston, and Old Bones said he was a "great" coach. All this was a personal, calculated attack against an individual; back up your claims, or keep it to yourself, that's my POV. Come on, I'm not telling you because you're too stupid to understand and you're a troll, and you're an idiot...WTF is that? That's grade school, man, grade school.

As for what I do, I've been doing it along time and very well, but I respectfully decline to answer. Despite several temptations to qualify my personal opinions with personal info, I decided to enjoy the anonymity this forum affords.

Comment #179 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 26, 2009 2:29 PM

When picking a light, odd-shaped object off the groung (like "picking" the end of that log), it's not relevant that the person didn't use textbook deadlift form. It certainly doesn't reflect negatively on his overall ability to train soldiers in general. If it does, then it's very relevant that Coach post his videos.

Additionally, to attack someone so severely, and personally, based on one video clip is silly and disingenuous.

Comment #180 - Posted by: Brad at April 26, 2009 2:53 PM

Pleepleeus,

It's not just "seemingly actual seal operators" who won't like this thread but a fair number of actual SEALs won't either. Challenging the orthodoxy is not a reliable path to popularity, and neither is advocacy for regular participation in devastatingly challenging work.

I didn't say that I don't care if "people" believe me or not. Reread what I said. It turns out that the people I care about believe me and, in fact, have first hand knowledge of all the facts, and it was for them that I posted this and it is for them that I engage you. (Remember pleep's you're just a prop.)

I wonder, are there, hypothetically, a set of facts that would/might change your mind? I suspect not. If so, share with me what they might be, please.

I also wonder what you think my possible motivation could be in publicly assailing a Navy employee without provocation. I ask because your perspective as to my being pompous, arrogant, immature, and an egomaniac (actually an immature egomaniac which suggest I might eventually become considerably more egomaniacal!) misses the undisclosed but hard to miss premise that I'm a liar, entirely self-destructive, lousy businessman, and frankly, a moron.

This is some of your best work, Sir. I find it hilarious that you don't want to tell us what you do and claim that you have done it a long time and do it well. Am I supposed to conclude that you don't do anything at all especially very well since you won't reveal what it is that you do, and more importantly, won't provide any evidence? Isn't that your standard that without offering evidence any claim is a lie?

Comment #181 - Posted by: Coach at April 26, 2009 2:56 PM

Brad,

You offer four sentences.

The first, second, and third are patently false. The fourth, though true enough, contains an implicit premise that is not only, again, patently false but makes me wonder if you've read my posts at all.

In this post, Brad, though you got it all wrong, you've done a good job of working us towards a discussion of facts and not feelings. For that I salute you.

Comment #182 - Posted by: Coach at April 26, 2009 3:50 PM

"In this post, Brad, though you got it all wrong, you've done a good job of working us towards a discussion of facts and not feelings. For that I salute you." Perhaps you should read your own posts. You are the only one here who refuses to provide any facts. Your attack on a man and stating for all who read that he is putting the lives of soldiers in danger, and providing his "interpretation of the dead lift" as source material is a joke. If you are going to make that type of allegation, back it up facts. You offer none, just insults like that from a child in a hissy fit to anyone who questions you. And now the art of deflection is in play, as if my choice to remain anonymous (which was made long ago, not today) is actually something anyone including you could really care about. To steal a single word from Brad, your choice of Rest Day topic, and every sentence of every post you have made today and yesterday can be summed up succinctly: Disingenuous.

Comment #183 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 26, 2009 4:41 PM

Pleepleeplus,
I think you fail to realize the trap you've fallen into. By engaging in this argument you are only amplifying Coach's point of view. He laid the bait and simply had to reel you in.

Comment #184 - Posted by: PC at April 26, 2009 7:25 PM

pleeplus,

In your post #89 you wrote:

"This video tells me nothing about this man, his athletic abilities or his teaching skills. Him struggling through a level 1 cert doesn't mean crap either.

Its a B-ll-Sh+t juvenile hit piece."

In my post #95, I wrote:

"How is posting a link to a video that was already on the internet a "BS juvenile hit piece"? "

You still have not answered my question, several days into the conversation.

Furthermore, you say in your most recent post:

"Your attack on a man and stating for all who read that he is putting the lives of soldiers in danger, and providing his "interpretation of the dead lift" as source material is a joke. If you are going to make that type of allegation, back it up facts."

It's not a joke at all. Knowing how to deadlift properly, and more importantly having the strength that comes with having trained the deadlift hard with good form, can make all the difference in combat.

Here's a fact: it's pretty f***ing hard to pull a 180-pound guy who's wearing 80 pounds of gear out of a HMMWV door after the vehicle got tipped on its side by the IED. Hard to open that 300-pound door as well. Unfortunately I speak from experience.

Pleeplus, ever wonder why CrossFit is spreading like wildfire among the company-grade leaders of the combat-arms units in our military?

You accuse Coach G of acting like a vindictive child. If you understood and fully internalized what is at stake in how well we train our warfighters, and in turn the reasons why Coach takes hacks like Caviston to task, maybe you wouldn't be engaging in pissing contests on the message board. Fitness, to you, is nothing more than an extracurricular activity. You will never understand those of us for whom it is a matter of life or death.

S/F

Dan

Comment #185 - Posted by: Daniel-san at April 26, 2009 7:56 PM

Coach,

Your first paragraph at 171 was a complete answer to my post(s) at 167. I'll just repeat the portion of my comment that went: "...this may be more a reflection of my ignorance than any real confusion on the part of the people who manage it [the posting page]".

Dale,

I didn't intend to be ill-mannered and I don't think Coach is a dummy. I can't comment on the substance of Clavichord v. Coach or rival approaches to operator preparation. You may have guessed I'm not much of an "operator". My emotional investment in crossfit goes as far as my gratitude for being shown how to have fun while improving my fitness in short, efficient workouts. Perhaps I should have kept my yap shut on this one.

Comment #186 - Posted by: Prole at April 26, 2009 9:22 PM

Does anyone know what song that was on the games video??? It sounds like singer from Janes Addiction

Comment #187 - Posted by: Nathan at April 27, 2009 6:40 AM

Re: Mike Caviston

Sheesh! I can't imagine why he's being trashed. Starting with the assuming that what is on the video 'is what he would call a deadlift' and then dumping on it. He DIDN'T call it a deadlift. And people here are accusing HIM of lying.

Without implying that anyone else is unworthy I'd like to point out why I think Caviston is highly qualified. As an athlete he broke the world record on the indoor rowing machine, setting a 40+ lightweight time of 6:18.2 for 2000m that still stands today. Since Crossfit is familiar with the rower I assume that most can appreciate the magnitude of the performance. He was world champion several times at the event.

As a coach he used the training program that he developed for his own championship efforts to bring the University of Michigan its greatest success. Since he left the program it has reverted to its somewhat lesser state.

As a teacher he has studied, and continues to study, as much or more scientific literature available on exercise physiology than anyone that I'm aware of. When he offers criticism it most often comes with the results of replicable experiment. He has the knowledge to back up his training methods.

In short, while I might not choose Mike over a graduated Navy Seal who has proven himself if I needed one guy in a foxhole to help protect my life, I'd choose him over any unproven Seal recruit.

My own qualifications, for what they're worth (and I realize that many Crossfit guys can kick my ass into next week), include finishing 2nd at Fort Dix in March of 1968 in the physical fitness test for Basic Combat Training (ncluding a 5:17 mile in fatigues and combat boots), four times finishing in the top 20 of the Boston Marathon (1971-72-73-74, including a best of 2:20:56), a 4:34 indoor mile as a 40-year-old, and as a 58-year-old winning the world championship at indoor rowing in my age and weight division (6:58.6 for 2000m). It ain't great, but it ain't chopped liver either. I have enough background both doing it and watching others doing it and coaching it that I think I can recognize quality when I see it, and Mike Caviston is quality.

Comment #188 - Posted by: Rick Bayko at April 27, 2009 8:19 AM

26:32 as rx'd

Comment #189 - Posted by: jb305 at April 27, 2009 8:53 AM

Did I miss the answer to the C&J Question from comment #113?

Comment #190 - Posted by: Andrea at April 27, 2009 9:01 AM

My new computer doesn't support video. That will be rectified at some point, but for now the situation appears clear enough.

"Fitness" is a competitive business, and the government is a good customer, especially in a down economy. The certifications which in theory would enable one to tell the difference between a true professional and a dumbass, don't. You can get many certifications--including, if I'm not mistaken, the highly coveted ACSM certification--without understanding how to perform simple, common movements in such a way as to not hurt yourself.

Now, obviously in the real world you sometimes have to lift heavy objects with a rounded back. The obvious athletic example is the Atlas stones. Some of them are very heavy, and there really isn't a way to maintain a lordotic arch.

But practicing the movement correctly is what teaches you how to compress your core in such a way as to prevent injury. In order to improvise on a musical instrument, you have to know the scales.

The man in question here apparently doesn't know his scales. He is claiming that movements he is apparently teaching incorrectly cause injury. Well, yes, movements which you can't do, and can't teach (note there is a distinction there), will in fact cause injury.

Perhaps some of you are familiar with "By their fruits ye shall know them". Coach has created a system in which something like 50-100 people every week choose to invest $500-$1,000 to get certified in. We have over a 1,000 affiliates. We have tens of thousands of athletes, scattered around the world.

Our injury rates are almost non-existent, and those we do have appear to be the results of excessive enthusiasm, not any problem with the program itself.

On the contrary, the movements which best mimic tasks that are necessary in the real world are taught here BETTER than anywhere else. We have world class trainers in people like Mark Rippetoe and Mike Burgener, and Jeff Martone.

There is no better site on the internet for learning how to do virtually ANY common athletic movement. None. I challenge anyone to show me one. It sure as hell isn't the NSCA's pathetic rip-off of our video section. It isn't ACSM. They have nothing.

So in the one corner we have a guy who can't do basic movements, and who apparently lack the balls for face to face confrontation, stating that what we do is dangerous. He says it from a position of manifest self interest, and without a capacity to support it factually, or even logically. His inability to do a deadlift is vastly less important than the inability it necessarily implies to TEACH the deadlift. Does Coach know how to teach the deadlift? Many thousands of us can answer unequivocally yes.

In the other corner, we have the man who created this program, and who is in no small measure responsible not just for this website, but the people on it.

The choice, I think, should be obvious.

Comment #191 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 27, 2009 9:37 AM

Rick #188--

First of all sir, full respect to your achievements. I thought I was a stud when I broke 7 minutes on the ERG at age 25. For that matter, I referred to Mr. Caviston as a "hack" in a previous post, and with regard to rowing, that is certainly not the case.

You're right, nowhere in the video did Caviston say that the way that he lifted the log was supposed to be a perfect or even mediocre deadlift. However, there's a reasonable expectation that the guy in charge of supervising physical preparation for one of the toughest military courses out there should be able to properly demonstrate a basic functional movement. The heinous form on glorious display in the video did not come from a paparazzi photographer using a telephoto lens to snap him picking the morning paper up from his doorstep; rather, it came from a PUBLIC OFFERING VIDEO in which he's picking up a reasonably heavy object. There really is no excuse. When you take the Caviston video in the context of his effort to exploit the leverage he has within the NSW community to undermine CrossFit, it's pretty obvious why Coach posted it on his site with a sarcastic comment describing it as "...his interpretation of the deadlift."

S/F

Dan

Comment #192 - Posted by: Daniel-san at April 27, 2009 11:38 AM

Coach, just read through a good chunk of this discussion, and once the intent of the video is understood, at first glance it seems people think "dang, that's kinda harsh". I admit I almost agreed for a second, then realized that you don't do things without reason. So, I found your posts and discovered the reason. Plus, if I were in your situation, I'd do the same thing you are. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't mind pissing people off when I think they're wrong, once I've thought through the issue.

Long story short, dude's doing a disservice to our special ops candidates, that's obvious. If he's lying and doing stupid things to save his own power position, I see nothing wrong in lambasting him.

You want case in point? Jesus Christ Himself spoke about Pharisees that way: Matthew 23:15 - "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."

Same thing, Matthew 23:27 - "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

Read that whole chapter, there's a lot of times where Jesus stands up and calls them out for their actions, which are mainly resultant in *harm to others*. And that's not the only Chapter/Verses like that.

Comment #193 - Posted by: Matt DeMinico at April 27, 2009 12:58 PM

Re: Comment #192

Thanks Daniel-san. I'm realizing that there is a history to this trashing of which I am unaware. I don't really care to learn it and take sides with either the Hatfields or the McCoys, it that is the situation.

As to whether Caviston is displaying good form, OK form that could be better, or a car wreck, I don't feel qualified to judge. I am pretty sure though that what he is doing is nothing at all like a deadlift. While I don't do deadlifts myself I see them at the gym regularly. When guys do deadlifts their hands go down to about 8 inches from the floor and as the lift is done the arms stay pointed straight down and outside the knees as their hands go up to about 28 inches from the floor. Caviston has to go all the way to the ground with his arms between his knees and lift to above his head to make the lift. I do feel qualified to observe that this is NOT his version of a deadlift and I'm a bit surprised that so many serious fitness buffs are willing to accept to be so just because someone else said that it is.

I'm also a bit surprised that in only one day of reading this thread that so many of the replies that I read earlier have been deleted. Some tough guys seem to be rather thin-skinned.

Rick

Comment #194 - Posted by: Rick Bayko at April 27, 2009 1:01 PM

re #193: Shawn, um, buddy, he's not attacking his character for disagreeing with him. He's attacking his character because Mr. Caviston is *LYING*, and he has been caught in it.

I'm not privy to the information, but I'd be willing to bet that Coach gets attacked by people all the time, sometimes to his face, and just lets it roll off his back. But occasionally, when someone is doing irrepairable harm to our defenders of freedom, he decides to take a stand.

Comment #195 - Posted by: Matt DeMinico at April 27, 2009 1:02 PM

Came off a weekend of training others in this fine program created by Coach Glassman years ago. You see, I've been Crossfitting for 5 years now, and I really mean what I say when I say that I love " The WODs," which is my shorthand of saying "CrossFit Theories and Aims, towards a broad, general, and inclusive fitness."

Somewhere along the journey, there's been a viscious little undercurrent that plays not so infrequently that is nothing new in the great scheme of human existence, it just manifests itself in different ways. It takes the forms of " separation, better than, and differentiate by exclusion."

The use of the comment board to generate probing discussion, to highlight good form vs bad, and even post an article that reflects the political leanings of the author are, I would say, tolerable uses of the board.

But much along the lines of "The Emperor has no clothes" fable, I and others (and you'd better believe that if .01 % are posted thoughts like mine that many more are thinking it) Coach has to hear the criticism for what it's worth. Good form or bad, the post clearly was in bad taste--that's it: bad taste.

And, as predicted, I knew that there would be a napoleonic response by Coach, up to and including removal of the post. The initial response of removing my post speaks volumes, for anyone who wishes to hear the subtext.

There is inherent strength of character when someone who is a leader admits their error. Coach, as someone who educates many on the powerful tenets of Crossfit, refers many to links where you have educated us time and again, I still chide you for the exchanges in this post, as well as the ad hominem attacks on those who dissent.

Dismiss me as a troll, but I lay my head down at sleep knowing that in this case, on this matter, I was on the side of the angels.

Time to move on, (and marinate on the "grow up" statement, Coach)

Back to XFit

Comment #196 - Posted by: Sarah at April 27, 2009 2:32 PM

Sarah approx 198

Please do not continue to insult without knowing the facts. Coach did not remove your post; *I* did. He asked me to put it back.

So if you care to throw "Napoleonic" in MY direction, not his, at least I have the height to carry it.

"Bad taste" is coming into someone else's house and crapping on the carpet, which is what you did. I find that entirely more offensive than Coach defending his program and livelihood, of which you are the benefactor.

Angel? I think not.

Comment #197 - Posted by: Lynne Pitts at April 27, 2009 3:55 PM

Daniel-san, I thought your question had been answered by coach's own admission that posting the video was a calculated attack on Caviston. Me not answering you directly was not an intended slight. He admits its a hit piece, and my interpretation is it is juvenile. As for me not knowing what its like, etc., you don't know me, you don't know what I do, and I have never made any boastful comments (other than the vague "I do it well") about what I do or what I have experinced. The opinions I have offered here are the only thing you can reasonably pass judgement on.

AS for Matt and the other kool aid drinkers here, now we are comparing coach to JESUS CHRIST? DO YOU READ YOUR OWN FREAKING POSTS?? Get a grip and come back down to Mother Earth, folks.

Comment #198 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 27, 2009 3:57 PM

Came off a weekend of training others in this fine program created by Coach Glassman years ago. You see, I've been Crossfitting for 5 years now, and I really mean what I say when I say that I love " The WODs," which is my shorthand of saying "CrossFit Theories and Aims, towards a broad, general, and inclusive fitness."

Somewhere along the journey, there's been a viscious little undercurrent that plays not so infrequently that is nothing new in the great scheme of human existence, it just manifests itself in different ways. It takes the forms of " separation, better than, and differentiate by exclusion."

The use of the comment board to generate probing discussion, to highlight good form vs bad, and even post an article that reflects the political leanings of the author are, I would say, tolerable uses of the board.

But much along the lines of "The Emperor has no clothes" fable, I and others (and you'd better believe that if .01 % are posted thoughts like mine that many more are thinking it) Coach has to hear the criticism for what it's worth. Good form or bad, the post clearly was in bad taste--that's it: bad taste.

And, as predicted, I knew that there would be a napoleonic response by Coach, up to and including removal of the post. The initial response of removing my post speaks volumes, for anyone who wishes to hear the subtext.

There is inherent strength of character when someone who is a leader admits their error. Coach, as someone who educates many on the powerful tenets of Crossfit, refers many to links where you have educated us time and again, I still chide you for the exchanges in this post, as well as the ad hominem attacks on those who dissent.

Dismiss me as a troll, but I lay my head down at sleep knowing that in this case, on this matter, I was on the side of the angels.

Time to move on, (and marinate on the "grow up" statement, Coach)

Back to XFit

Comment #199 - Posted by: Sarah at April 27, 2009 4:07 PM

Like I said, I love the WODs...

Big fan of yours too Lynne. My beef isn't with you. Coach's reasoning for putting the post back on?

Seriously. The small tunic still fits. But that's ok. CrossFit is much larger than Coach. To me, CrossFit is Tony Budding. CrossFit is Nicole Carroll, Kyle Maynard, Adrian Bozman, Todd Widman, Jon Gilson, Mark Rippetoe, Jeff Martin, Doug Chapman, Rob Wolfe, and countless others that don't let their character become fodder for discussion, that stick to the matter at hand, and resist the power afforded by having a bullypulpit such as this.

Coach needed to be called out, and he was. Why is it so hard for those that are probably closer to Coach than us low level CrossFitters to say, "Coach, that was a little too much...?"

Seriously!

Coach should be the figurehead of corporate responsibility. Don't even get me started on how if CrossFit were put under the microscope (cruise a fair share of you tube videos of CrossFit in action) that we wouldn't be fair game for the accusation that we take people that might have no prior training experience, or knowledge of human anatomy as it relates to form and function in athletic endeavor, and certify them with no practical examination of their skill set, and allow them to instruct others if they pay an affiliate fee? Thank God it has worked, but there is a LOT of bad instruction and bad movement done in the name of CrossFit! Pity it would be if someone leveled a charge at us? How would we respond?

I digress. Guilty as charged.

Repeat: Coach, you could have taken so many other avenues, given your standing in LEO/MIL circles. This was a poor choice, my opinion, shared by many, not shared by many.

Back to training.

Signed,

"necessary collateral damage"--Coach

Comment #200 - Posted by: Sarah at April 27, 2009 4:43 PM

"Butterfly"

50 air squats
40 push press
30 abmat situps
20 wall balls
10 burpees

3 rounds for time
15:45

Comment #201 - Posted by: shortstack at April 28, 2009 5:42 AM

For Pleepleus, Sarah and others who for whatever reason are quite eager to misunderstand what appears to me a simple situation, let me ask a simple question: is there a qualitative difference between lying and telling the truth? Or is the liar morally equal to the one who tells the truth?

Follow up: if, as I think unlikely, you retain a principled regard for (and presumably belief in) such a thing as "the truth", is it not incumbent upon you to do some work determining where it lies? And if you fail to do that work, are you not thereby admitting that it doesn't matter to you?

Finally, if two people make contradictory claims, are they both equal simply because they are argued with confidence?

Comment #202 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 28, 2009 7:58 AM

I will add that I watched the video, and for what it's worth I did that rough movement several times last night, with a 12' ladder weighing roughly 80-100 pounds. Because I have hurt my back before, and have been properly trained, I well understand the basic mechanics for picking things up, which is to retain a lordotic arch, and use my legs to drive up. If you go into almost any warehouse in the country, they will have a poster on the wall showing proper mechanics. Since companies lose money when their employees get hurt, they teach them basic mechanics.

Obviously, you can cheat, and do things like Mike does here. I've done it myself many times. However, I KNOW from personal experience, that that technique increases your risk of injury dramatically. All construction workers know this. Doing it wrong is a simple matter of excessive haste, or laziness. And I have personally known a number of guys laid up for weeks with unnecessary back injuries. They get in a hurry, do it wrong, and wind up in traction.

How, then, one might reasonably ask, is it that what is known to virtually the entire world is apparently unknown to someone who is presumably paid well to teach men who do our most dangerousw work?

Comment #203 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 28, 2009 8:08 AM

I have no more comments on this issue. My opinion has been stated.

Back to training.

Comment #204 - Posted by: sarah at April 28, 2009 9:12 AM

pleepulluplusupsusp: Nice straw man argument there. I don't presume you're ignorant enough to actually believe that I was comparing Coach to Jesus Christ, but hey, it makes good drama so you accuse me of doing it anyhow.

I'll speak to you like I would to a five year old: What I was doing there was a common writing method, discussing from the lesser to the greater. You are accusing Coach (the "lesser" part of that argument in case you didn't catch it) of doing something that you would never accuse Jesus Christ (the "greater" part of that argument, again, if you can't realize that when you have A and B, and I already used A, you're only left with B as an option) of doing.

Comment #205 - Posted by: Matt DeMinico at April 28, 2009 9:27 AM

Sarah,

Your argument fell apart under scrutiny, if I'm not mistaken I called you out, indirectly, as a moral relativist--shorthand for someone who sees no principle other than "no principle" worth fighting for--and you folded.

Your politics are thereby shown to be self evidently of the Left. The rest of us--you know, "right wingers"-- still believe that there is an important moral difference between lying and telling the truth. For this reason, we still find value in engaging in fact and logic based dialogue which has as its intent a more complete understanding of the case.

By simply offering your disdain for the mere NOTION of truth--or Coach's principled defense of it--you don't take the side of the angels. Leftism is, quite simply, the path of the "lie".

How, you will no doubt ask, can I make this discussion political? How can I KNOW that this is the underlying basis of your own, and those of others, critique? Well, of course, I can't. I making an educated guess. This is called a hypothesis. It's a hypothesis, since you can refute it.

I asked three simple questions above. If I'm wrong, then it should be clear enough in your responses. But I don't think I was wrong. I think your response was a knee-jerk response originating in the imbecilic leftist propaganda meme that since conflicts originate from people having different viewpoints, that if we treat them all as equal, conflict will cease. And that since Coach in effect attacked someone, then HE is the sinner, and HE who has to pay penance, even thought this other guy is seemingly as lacking in integrity as he is actual skill.

Comment #206 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 28, 2009 9:51 AM

Re: Comment #206

Barry, I think that I'm confused. I'm pretty sure that if I had posted a video of a Crossfit instructor lifting a log by its end, even using Coach-approved technique, and called it Crossfit's interpretation of a deadlift, that I would have been severely criticized for it (and rightly so). Yet you seem to consider it truth as long as the posting comes from Coach.

There is an old saying, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me that it's raining." What seems to have occurred here is that Coach pissed on your leg and told you that Mike Caviston said it was raining. And you apparently have accepted that.

Maybe Coach is a great guy and has never done anything like this before. I don't really know. But I can't see how that posting can be considered to reflect well on Crossfit.

Comment #207 - Posted by: Rick Bayko at April 28, 2009 2:22 PM

Barry,

your posts are so far out there that its comical. No way you're keeping a straight face typing that nonsense. Coach admitted it was a calculated attack on Caviston, and when called on it, his only defense is that Caviston is putting lives at stake and we (you and me and every other poster here) are too stupid to understand the reasons and are not worthy to be made aware of them. Show me some proof, heck, even some flimsy circumstantial evidence that Caviston lied about anything anywhere, and then we'll talk about truth and lies. And now your ridiculous interjection of liberal/conservative themes, get real.

Matt,

this five year old stands by what I posted prior regading your coach is Jesus post. Drink some more kool aide smart guy.

Anyone who took that video as a legitimate training video, and then passed judgement on Caviston as a man, coach, instructor, leader, etc., based on that alone, is a drooling idiot. Ask yourselves, "Why am I so quick to demomize this guy?" If your answer is, "Duh, because coach said so" with no evidence whatsoever, then you need to really do some self evaluation. You can write the longest, most eloquent and intelligent posts you want, but if you're blindly following your false prophet, you have problems.

Comment #208 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 28, 2009 3:26 PM

Thank you all for ignoring my questions, and thereby validating my points. I am right, you are wrong. Coach was quite clear: this guy is saying that Crossfit increases injury rates and should not be used (or only with great caution, under his personal supervision.)

You ignore this point. Why? Because I am right in asserting that your primary objective is to attack a man for objecting, on a principled basis, to being lied about by a man with patent ulterior motives.

More generally, for those members of our social order who still believe that there is a qualitative moral difference between liars and those who tell the truth--hell,that still believe the word "truth" means anything--I will comment that this discussion, in a nutshell, encapsulates the ENTIRETY of leftist discourse.

Quite literally, when they see someone step outside the margins of their very parochial, very bigoted, very narrow world--and making a principled stand on ANYTHING but tolerance clearly qualifies--their first and only thought is to destroy them. To use any and all non sequiturs, insults, abuses of logic, and yes lies, to make sure that they don't allow non-conformitarian positions to get traction.

Why else spend so much time attacking Coach on his own site for getting pissed at some guy who is saying stupid things, lying, and muddying what should be clear waters?

Pleepleus: PLEASE, keep posting. Every thread, every Rest Day. There are some people who still don't get this, and people like you make my job easier. Believe me, Coach has no issue whatsoever with alternative viewpoints, and you people, especially on this thread, are showing your stripes quite clearly.

Sarah, Rick, and others, too. Please keep posting.

Rick,

I've been posting here for five years, as long as I've been doing CrossFit. In that time period, there have been any number of times that I have seen mean-spirited, and ignorant attacks on Coach. He puts up with it for a while, then attacks back.

What do you do when people attack you? Should we be sending your name to the Pope for beautification?

I'm curious as well: do your attacks on me count as attacks, or do only attacks count which have as their basis the rectification of wrongs? As we all know, to rectify a wrong, one must admit such a thing as a "wrong" exists, and as I have been showing regularly for some years, large segments of our society have rejected the concept of right and wrong altogther.

You appear to be such a person, in that you attack me sanctimoniously, assuming you understand me, but cannot countenance Coach defending himself against someone who has been attacking him and CrossFit generally for over a year, and demonstrably using lies to do so.

I know Coach. I have had several meals with him, and attended several Cert's he taught. How about you?

Comment #209 - Posted by: Barry cooper at April 28, 2009 9:08 PM

Thank you all for ignoring my questions, and thereby validating my points. I am right, you are wrong. Coach was quite clear: this guy is saying that Crossfit increases injury rates and should not be used (or only with great caution, under his personal supervision.)

You ignore this point. Why? Because I am right in asserting that your primary objective is to attack a man for objecting, on a principled basis, to being lied about by a man with patent ulterior motives.

More generally, for those members of our social order who still believe that there is a qualitative moral difference between liars and those who tell the truth--hell,that still believe the word "truth" means anything--I will comment that this discussion, in a nutshell, encapsulates the ENTIRETY of leftist discourse.

Quite literally, when they see someone step outside the margins of their very parochial, very bigoted, very narrow world--and making a principled stand on ANYTHING but tolerance clearly qualifies--their first and only thought is to destroy them. To use any and all non sequiturs, insults, abuses of logic, and yes lies, to make sure that they don't allow non-conformitarian positions to get traction.

Why else spend so much time attacking Coach on his own site for getting pissed at some guy who is saying stupid things, lying, and muddying what should be clear waters?

Pleepleus: PLEASE, keep posting. Every thread, every Rest Day. There are some people who still don't get this, and people like you make my job easier. Believe me, Coach has no issue whatsoever with alternative viewpoints, and you people, especially on this thread, are showing your stripes quite clearly.

Sarah, Rick, and others, too. Please keep posting.

Rick,

I've been posting here for five years, as long as I've been doing CrossFit. In that time period, there have been any number of times that I have seen mean-spirited, and ignorant attacks on Coach. He puts up with it for a while, then attacks back.

What do you do when people attack you? Should we be sending your name to the Pope for beautification?

I'm curious as well: do your attacks on me count as attacks, or do only attacks count which have as their basis the rectification of wrongs? As we all know, to rectify a wrong, one must admit such a thing as a "wrong" exists, and as I have been showing regularly for some years, large segments of our society have rejected the concept of right and wrong altogther.

You appear to be such a person, in that you attack me sanctimoniously, assuming you understand me, but cannot countenance Coach defending himself against someone who has been attacking him and CrossFit generally for over a year, and demonstrably using lies to do so.

I know Coach. I have had several meals with him, and attended several Cert's he taught. How about you?

Comment #210 - Posted by: Barry cooper at April 28, 2009 9:08 PM

Can the creators of the videos please upload them somewhere so I can embed them?

I don't want to get in any trouble doing it myself. Thank you.

Comment #211 - Posted by: Isaac de Masi at April 29, 2009 12:15 AM

Barry Cooper - #209 (and #210?)

"What do you do when people attack you? Should we be sending your name to the Pope for beautification?"

By all means, yes! I've tried creams, hair dye, wrinkle treatments. Nothing has worked so far. I'm not all that religious, but if the Pope can make me look better to the ladies, I'll give it a try!

Thanks for your help, Barry.

Comment #212 - Posted by: Lewis Dunn at April 29, 2009 8:05 AM

Barry my brother, you are clearly quite smart, but you are confusing the heck out of me with your take on this thing.

Do you not comprehend that nothing, zero, nada, etc. has been posted here by anyone, and specifically coach, that shows Caviston lied about anything anywhere? I've ignored your truth/lie inquiries becasue they make no sense and are about as irrelevant as a post can be on this subject matter.

So, was the calcutlated attack executed because Caviston is endangering the lives of soldiers as evidenced by his log-picking-up skills, or because he lied to someone somewhere about coach? You show your stripes as well. If coach says it so, its so, right? Don't make your own moral decisions, Barry, coach will make them for you.

Drink up, the spaceship will be here soon!

Comment #213 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 29, 2009 11:52 AM

Barry has a true talent for attempting to twist issues so that by the time you're done reading his 18 mini-paragraphs, the conversation would be lucky to resemble its original self.

Barry, lets lay this out quite simply. I know you're just itching to fire up that keyboard again, but take a moment and breath.

Greg claims that Mike is putting soldiers in danger, and the only PROOF (not hearsay) that has been offered is a video of him attempting a low exertion lift without perfect form. From this video, it is supposed to be obviously apparent that he has no idea about proper core strength and lifting form. What's more, one is supposed to believe that this form is getting passed on to SEALs. Utter bull****

There have been multiple videos of people deadlifting with atrocious form, and then being highlighted on the MAIN PAGE. Deadlift/Burpee video a few days ago, anyone?n By applying the same logic used by the people who jumped on the "hate caviston" train immediately, Greg is obviously teaching everyone how to deadlift wrong. I mean, he allowed a video that was actually about deadlifting to be shown with horrible form, as opposed to Mike not taking 30 seconds of hand placement prep and mental concentration to make an easy lift.

There is no logic in this attack, there is no grand retribution, there is definitely no ludicrous political carryover.

"Thank you all for ignoring my questions, and thereby validating my points. I am right, you are wrong. Coach was quite clear: this guy is saying that Crossfit increases injury rates and should not be used (or only with great caution, under his personal supervision.)"

Who seriously even talks like that? People are ignoring your questions because no one wants to take the time to muddle through your random wordplay. As to the second sentence, no one cares if Greg SAID it happened, there is no proof that it happened. Back this up with some documentation please.

Comment #214 - Posted by: Cval at April 29, 2009 1:48 PM

I know Coach. I respect his honesty. I know some of the guys that helped get CrossFit implmented at BUD/S. I respect their integrity.

I know, from many past discussions, that a fair number of paid trainers have mouthed off about CrossFit from positions of ignorance. This guy, here, is demonstrating how to pick up a log. He's not doing a WOD for time: he's showing how one picks up a log properly.

And he's doing it wrong. He's showing that Naval Special Warfare lifting protocols, as demonstrated by him, would be improved by a visit to the local grocery store and a talk with a stocking clerk.

I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid. It appears clear enough to me that this is one of the guys who keeps saying--to high levels of Naval Special Warfare Command--that in his PROFESSIONAL opinion, CrossFit is a poor protocol for training SEALs, because of the increased injury rates.

Now, I am taking on faith that Coach is telling the truth. I know him, I have a track record with him, so I can make this determination from an informed basis. The alternative which you seemingly prefer is to consider him a liar, until proven otherwise. I don't like that alternative, not because I have some cult-like devotion to Coach, but simply because the facts of the case, as presented to me, appear to strongly support that what appears to be happening, is in fact what is happening.

Comment #215 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 30, 2009 10:15 AM

Barry, I sincerely hope you don't truely believe the blind-faith nonsense you type, and that your posts here are merely for the entertainment value.

Comment #216 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 30, 2009 10:43 AM

Barry

Where do you stand in regards to the recent videos posted (I believe it was on Tuesday, April 21st as the most recent example) on the Crossfit mainsite, which show very poor deadlift form? I can only assume that because it was on the mainpage, then CF HQ approves of deadlifting in this manner. Is there a double standard? Is Crossfit applying the same integrity to themselves as they do to everyone else? I don't know the details of the bickering going on between the two of them, and frankly, I don't care. It seems quite petty to me, especially an attack in this matter, with virtually no background information.

Comment #217 - Posted by: zo 26/m/190/5'10 at April 30, 2009 2:53 PM

zo #217: That video was very obviously about intensity, and the form *still* was better on almost every rep than Mr. Caviston's form on that single one NOT under intensity.

Comment #218 - Posted by: Matt DeMinico at May 1, 2009 8:56 AM

#218

Seriously? That makes no sense whatsoever. Bad form coupled with heavy weight is a recipe for injury, not bad form with an extremely light weight. The people attempting to defend this are just being ridiculous now.

Caviston's video was NOT a demonstration of how to properly lift a log! Like all of you use perfect form every time you pick anything up? Get real. You and Barry Cooper need to take a crash course in rational though.

Comment #219 - Posted by: Cval at May 1, 2009 1:14 PM

Going to try to beat out these rainclouds, but figured I would respond really quickly.

#218 I am a little bit confused, I would think that the vast majority of videos we have here in regards to people posting workout feats is built upon "intensity". Also, I do not know how there is any true comparison between Caviston's bad form of picking up a log and thrusting it above his head under relatively easy conditions, and a video of someone completing real deadlifts with pretty heavy weight. Yes, both forms are bad, but its apples and oranges (different conditions, intensity levels...not to mention the log lever lift has very different dynamics), so I do not know how you compared the two to say that his [dl guy] form was better on almost every lift. Further, I do not agree with the justification that "at least the CF video was not AS bad." Bad form is bad form, and it should be addressed on an unbiased level. If you call out someone for lifting a log with bad form (as a side note at the end of a video), it is probably not a good idea to post a video with egregious form a few days earlier.
Just my thoughts on the whole thing...

Comment #220 - Posted by: zo 26/m/190/5'10 at May 1, 2009 2:58 PM

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