Nice article. Glad to see the medical field slowly abandoning its extreme positions in favor of some sort of moderate middle ground...

Rest day after a most excellent cycle. I will be having some Oreo's and milk tomorrow cuz that sounds mighty delicious! Mmmm mmmm :)

Enjoy a restful Tuesday everyone :) I have a feeling the next cycle will be brutal

fat tony-
I forgot I never responded! Yes May 16-17 @ Rogue Fitness in Gahanna, OH if you wanna come! :)

Does anyone have a stationary bike they recommend? Looking to get one, and I'm wondering if there is a brand support by the masses similar to a C2 rower.

loved the pic.... well written.... what a leap in terms of the precision in communication

yay crossfit!

Cool picture- looks like a magazine ad. Is Crossfit preparing to go mainstream?

that all makes perfect sense to me. finally some people are getting the picture.

Looking to make a freestanding pullup bar, any suggestions? I need to expand my home gym, as I hate going to the "globo." As a former Personal Trainer, my love for Crossfit was frowned upon by many, its sad how they can rob you of your pasison to help people and never want to step foot in a gym again...

What's GPP?

GPP = general physical preparedness
at least I think so

Rest hard.

Great article, I have a client who is 58yr old and has 4 ballons in the heart. After just 2 months of CF, a trip to his cardiologist showed great improvements in his overall health.

OMG I am in shock, not only a rest day article I can read without a dictionary and Excedrin, but I have actual experience with this... about 1/4 of my cardiac rehab patients have CHF. I compile statistics for a federally funded study of CHFers with repeat hospital admissions. Exercise is the least recommended therapy, (and patients have very low rate of compliance). I also assist CHF clinic with verbal Spanish translation (many of our inner city patients cannot read).

Many CHFers feel the diagnosis is a death sentence, and are overwhelmed with fear. The word 'failure' is the kicker... I wish it were named otherwise...I would rather use diminished/ decreased ejection fraction...

Yeah, what is GPP?

I'm sure many in this audience may know, but you should always define an acronym when it is first introduced in writing (especially if this message is intended to reach out to those not already on the Crossfit Kool-Aid).

Great article, I have a client who is 58 yrs old and has 4 ballons in the heart. After just 2 months of CF, a trip to his cardiologist revealed great improvement in his overall health.

GPP = General Physical Preparedness

Going to print that one out and post on our door.

#10
thank you!

The Deadlift-Burpee video was really cool, but I'd swear that over half of Paul's exercises weren't done to spec. Why doesn't anybody call out CFers when they show poor form, especially during competitions? Is that such a bad thing to do so? Doesn't letting people slide cheat those who do the workouts right? Yes, I know all about Dave Castro and his "shot group" analogy, but I can't help but think that athletes need to be held to a definable and repeatable standard to keep things fair and above the board.

Verdict: Congrats, Karl, you won!

I need that as a poster! I would have to cover up that first comma in #7 though :P

#18

Crossfit doesn't teach you how to fight, it makes sure you don't gas during the fight--which neither BJ or Chuck did.

#15- do you know where his improve was? Lipids? Stress test duration? LVEF%? Were changes concurrent with medication therapy? Sometimes EF can improve with meds. Not doubting you (I'm happy for your client- its thrilling to be able to attribute change to exercise) just curious.

Wow, Dr. Octagon! Haven't heard that in a while.

I agree with Jill after watching the video, I've got to say Paul was definitely cutting the deadlifts short at the top. Awesome effort by all of them, especially lindsey doing the men's weight WOW!, and Karl turning in good ROM. But I gotta say Tall Karl wins

Point #5 from the image reads:
"There's greater margin for improving performance in elite athletes, where the margins of victory are very tight, improving GPP than can be garnered through additional sport specific training."
What? This needs to be re-written. See me after class.

#20 Jill, well said. I would go further and say Lindsey (sp?) was the winner by default (although she was absolutely amazing!) She was the only one of the three who did deadlifts and I believe the wod was deadlift/burpee.

Not that this point of view will win any popularity contests:)

comment 18

You know who else is a CrossFitter is Jason McDonald and unfortunately he lost too on Saturday. BUT, since he's been doing this program, he's improved alot and he looks strong as a horse while his opponents have been gasping.

Also, nice to see a non-political, fitness related article on a rest day, I usually hate to see what has been posted on the site on these days.

Are we supposed to be inspired to perform WODs in bad form? Weak

that girl is an animal, wow

Good to see Mark Twight on the board.

Anyone else sick of seeing burpees where athletes don't come anywhere near hip extension during the jump, hands do a little clap above forehead etc? Same with belly flopping every rep with body from waist down on the ground. I understand intensity vs form, but this shouldn't be happening in round 1 of DL/burpees. Jump in the air, full hip extension, hands clap so ear is visible with arms extended.

Rounding of back was horrible on deadlifts, no real maintaining of the lumbar curve, which I thought was paramount, but none of them had to re-do reps? Also, thought there was supposed to be full extension during the overhead clap phase of the burpee?

I know I can be a stickler for technique, but it seemed like no one was doing the WOD to normal CF standards. Props to participants for the effort, but honestly I wouldn't consider any of them to have finished the workout.

Deadlifts should finish extended with shoulders behind the bar. Many of his reps were short. Again, no doubt on his abilities...which is exactly why he should be getting full ROM! Otherwise inspiring efforts by all!

Comment #18 - Posted by: Question at April 20, 2009 8:10 PM

Penn lost because G.S.P. is a machine, an ass-kicking monster. Chuck has had a long and impressive career, with a ton of wins, and I don't think this last loss diminishes that.

I agree #29. I like the non-political article. As for fighters training Crossfit, I think there is no doubt that it is helpful in MMA. I think Chuck lost because he was outmatched, and BJ lost because he had no focus.

Was I the only one that got afraid while watching Lindsay doing her DL:s? Look at her back, that´s not a good position.

What's with the mark twight quote? :)

Those were not even close to real Burpee's. Especially Paul's he was just flopping on the ground like a fish out of water, and lucky to clear a 1/2 inch on each jump. Where was the push-up? Now I will give him credit for it being the 2nd WOD he completed in less then an hour, but it is still a DQ in my book. He wasn't full ROM on the deadlifts and I didn't see 1 true Burpee.

I see a video, I see bad form. It's getting out of hand.

Yeah, I agree with the rest... the amount of videos that are being posted with crappy form, and the then a camera panning to some stopwatch with a time that is supposedly super fast has gotten pretty lame... and more so, kind of counterproductive to the whole crossfit movement. If the whole crossfit movement is ever to be a mainstream sport, even possibly an olympic level event, there has GOT to be a concerted effort to fully hold athletes first to a very strict and high level of accountability. It almost ties into the whole mentality of 'instant gratification' in America today... If you can't do it right and fast, it ain't that fast... Come on folks, this isn't the first Crossfit rodeo...

sacrificing form for intensity. I think he was walking the thin line.

what do you guys think are the exercises that get cheated on the most in terms of ROM in a lot of the super fast videos we see?

Agree totally with #20. Video is well done, but the deadlifts done in the bottom right of screen are half done. I am a bit shocked that it is being shown on the main site.

I don't get it. Is GPP a popular idea? I've never heard of it. I understand going after bodybuilding or endurance models, but GPP seems like a narrower, less fleshed-out, equally obscure version of CrossFit with academic footnotes. Is this just a self righteous hatchet job on Coach's closest competitor? Or am I just that out of the loop of what's flying around the exercise science world?

Note: Just because something is formatted like the 10 commandments doesn't mean it has the same credibility. Prove CF in competition, not slogans.

Is this the crossfit blog, or am I in the wrong place. Pretty soon you guys will say that pull ups are not true pull ups because the guys and girls doing them look like fish out of water with their kips.
If anyone from Harbor City Crossfit is reading this, we need some Hurt Feelings reports stat.

People accuse crossfit of sacrificing form for speed, so I'm happy to see so many other people were unhappy with the form in that video.

With regards to #40 Brandon, is there any consensus as to what are the minimal criteria for a burpee? My impression was that it required:

1) Full contact with the ground for the entire chest and hips.
2) A jump in which the hips fully open.
3) A clap above the head some time while in mid air.

If that's that case, then I don't see anything wrong with flopping on the ground like a fish out of water, though on criteria 2 and 3 left a lot to be desired. In most of the videos I've seen of burpees, people don't do a strict push up off the ground but rather push their upper body up first. If *that* part of the movement isn't up to specs, a majority of the community isn't doing their burpees correctly.

Thoughts?

GPP is Crossfit, Crossfit is GPP.

General Physical Preparedness is used to build functional strength and endurance (ex: sled dragging, loading drills, kettlebell swings, etc... sound familiar?)

O.K. folks. I missed this past series except for the squats with a sprained ankle. I need to make something up tomorrow. Should I do the Inverted Burpees or Angie?

Adam #26,

Instead of rewriting it, let's just explain it to you. Let me know what you didn't understand - words or phrasing, and I'll parse if for you.

The heart is a muscle when you work it, it gets stronger!

Perhaps a requirement to becoming a Dr.or Nurse would be a general fitness test on a semi-annual basis. If the majority were fit, the medical community would be able to advise their patients appropriatly lessening their fear of malpractice and affording their patient a better quality of life!

Good health is a habit.

DownWithGPP #14,

You asked what GPP was even after it was asked and answered suggesting that there's not much point in explaining.

This situation reminds me of the weekly email we get asking, "Where would I find the workout of the day?"

This site is designed for the smart people to "get" and then in turn explain to the rest. It's working here very well today. Even the stupid question about why/how Chuck and BJ could lose doing CF was patiently answered.

I agree that the dead lift form in two of the three participants is poor. I have "tweaked" my back twice in the last year doing reps where my form got careless and a little sloppy. It happened the first time doing Mr. Joshua (250#) (my favorite WOD)and again when I was doing warmup reps (225#).

I have learned the hard way not to sacrifice form in the deadlift. The first time it cost me a week of training and the second time cost me one month. It just isn't worth it to me for those extra seconds.

Point #5 from the image reads:
"There's greater margin for improving performance in elite athletes, where the margins of victory are very tight, BY improving GPP than can be garnered through additional sport specific training."

I added the "BY" and it makes it clear I believe.
Matt

Happy rest day to the Frat Pack!

***Event Notice***

The Playoff Beard annual hike to Half Dome is coming up on Friday, May 22nd! If there are Crossfitters anywhere near Yosemite (we're in Modesto, CA) who want to join us, we would love it! 12 hours of beautiful high country hiking and cold beer when we get back down the mountain...what could be better?

Shoot me an email if you're interested. Josh in Sonora and Tim in Tahoe...where you at?

Some pics from last year are here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560957@N03/

Peace out!

Coach,

I am so impressed that you still take the time to respond to even the ridicolous comments and questions on this site. I am also astounded at the control in your responses.

I try and replicate those attributes when running my own business (not fitness related) but often fail dismally.

I hope you can make it to the LVL 1 cert in Perth, Australia in July, it would be great to meet you.

Cheers Aaron

nice, let my abs catch up from doing ghd for Angie.

Coach #50,
First, I'm Nick, not Adam. As far as coming across as superior, with all due respect, you're off to a rocky start. Unless the misnaming was intentional, in which case it's silly.
Second, I think I get the sentence. What I'm trying to point out in a somewhat lighthearted manner (though on review, I can see how it came across otherwise) is that the sentence could use revision to get its message across more effectively.
"There's [a] greater margin for improving performance in elite athletes, where the margins of victory are very tight, improving GPP than can be garnered through additional sport specific training."
Where is the subject, even in its implied form? Why the redundant phrasing (margin)? Breaking the sentence apart, how do the pieces fit together? They don't hang together as-is, and this obstructs the flow of information. Rewritten, the sentence might read: "Improving GPP allows for greater gains in performance for elite athletes than does additional sport-specific training; this is important where margins of victory are tight." That's hardly final ad copy language, but I think it flows better and makes more intuitive sense. I'm sure you can gussy it up from there.

Dave #24, I was thinking the same thing, this takes me back to 96/97. No Awareness & Waiting List were my jams on this album, they wouldn't fit a WOD though. Peace CrossFit!

I like it when coach answers questions. the response is quick and to the point! Love the GPP pic any thoughts on CF selling it as a poster? My box will buy 2.
Thanks Coach!!!
Bryan

#4 Joe- Buy a road bike or a Mnt bike and then a trainer that attaches to the rear tire. Then you can play outside for workouts as well. If you have a bike even better all you need is the trainer. Win win situation.

Hah, and I managed to leave out part of the quote. So much for looking smart myself. Ah, well.

That girl was wicked strong. Those burpees were horrible. Whatever happen to the old six inch jump standard?

Proper form over intensity until the form become good and solid or near perfect, and it did not look like there was even half-decent form to Paul's portion of the video. I'd rather a slightly lesser time with excellent form so that I don't cheat myself than to beat everyone with sloppy / non-existent form just for a "great time" to brag about but doesn't fulfill the ideals of true, personal Crossfit training.

Richard #46,

There's a lot going on here at a lot of different levels. We have people who understand enormous amounts about exercise science and about exercise. We've also got people who know next to nothing. There's no sin in being in the dark, but...

If you would just read, pause, think, and then let the others help you out where needed, you'd probably pick up quite a bit. At any rate you'd most like entirely obviate the need to interpret hatchet jobs, self-righteousness, narrowness, and other insults where none were offered or intended. You'd become a better reader along the way as well.

BTW, how were the Ten Commandments originally formatted? I'd love to hear. I've never considered authority by format but find the idea intriguing. (Who's going to tell Tufte?)

Pretty sad ROM for a mainpage video WOD. Cool idea with the split screen though. WTF was Sevan breathing so hard for when he was talking to Karl?

In response to the Crossfit and MMA comments, I could be wrong but it was my impression that BJ Penn was Crossfitting a long time ago (like before he gained a bunch of weight and came back to the UFC in horrible shape), but that he is doing more "mainstream fitness" stuff now. I believe I did see him doing some biceps curls on one of the UFC prefight hype TV specials. I have always wondered why his quote that "Crossfit is my training program" still comes up on the main site (and did a few years back when his only problem was his lack of met conditioning and he was obviously NOT crossfitting at the time). As for Chuck, he is pushing 40 and is still (arguably despite the recent losses) an elite fighter in great shape, and he has always had ridiculous power for being seemingly not that strong looking. Remember crossfit isn't going to make everyone a Speal or Khalipa or Everett. It's just going to make you a better you. For what it's worth, I see a bunch of lower level fighters (possible future elite guys) doing Crossfit all over the country. I would wager a guess that a large percentage of UFC fighters will be doing Crossfit or something very similar in the next 5 years. I still don't think it will ever be too mainstream in the general population although I am guessing it will be very well known by then, because it is too difficult and the attitude these days is to want results without effort, even if you know that what you want requires putting forth effort.

A random side question... Does anyone know who the music is in the dead lift burpee video? Well, for Paul the deads were more like 3/4 range of motion.

Is the Mark Twight quote serious or tongue-in-cheek based on the history between him and Coach? I know the meaning of the quote is legit, but quoting Mark Twight...?

No disrespect to Twight, just curious.

Nick,

Sorry about the name goof. This is rough on a BlackBerry.

There's absolutely no need for the definite article "a" before margin in much the same way that we wouldn't say, "There's "a" greater room for my legs in my new car". Perhaps you're not aware of this manner of use for the word "margin".

I also consider the two measures in each use of the word margin to be different - one an incremental measure of improvement the other an incremental measure of victory, and therefor the repeat of the word "margin" not redundant. In elite athletes both margins are historically, empirically very, very tight.

I don't think that you've improved the readability or concision of the language in your edits, but if it helps you to understand then great. But, then again, you admit to having understood it from the start. You're just trying to help the hypothetically confused. Thank you for that. Is that where your non sequitor regarding "coming across as superior" derives from?

Mmm...i preffer to make critics of the person who is in the mirror i hate to critic another person training...big hugs to the FRAT!!!

B2 #69,

The line was an original observation and formulation belonging to Mark Twight, and so I quote him whenever I repeat it. It's a common measure of courtesy and intellectual honesty.

Mark and I have our differences, but none of that is made any better by my ignoring his contributions or plagiarizing his work(s).

Don't let Mike Boyle or anyone else in the fitness industry that has a problem with crossfit and form get a hold of that vid on the main site. I love crossfit and everything about it. Two out of three of those vids were embarassing to have on the main page. If any newbie saw that and thought that was ok they would surely hurt themselves. I know not everyone is at an elite level, but I thought for like that was discouraged. Putting it on the main site looks like those are moves that are accepted.

I certainly hope you're not comparing your time to Speal's, or any other folks that day back in '08.

100 degree or so heat... ROM much more enforced ( hip extension, shoulders behind hips at top of lift... oh yeah, extremely hot mat... no time to practice it as it was announced 48 hours before game day... oh yeah, 3 brutal workouts that day in those conditions, so the fact you worked out before hand in a cushy box paul, no not impressed...the pressure of competing on the big stage...

Not sure what the point of displaying these videos are.

That guy was the perfect example of compromising form for speed, every crossfit gym owners nightmare. I wouldn't have stopped the watch. It should still be running!!!!! He hasn't finished yet!!!!

Coach, thanks for your response. From what I could find on GPP online, which was not very coherent, it seemed to consist of a vague name and poorly designed metcon workouts that strayed very slightly from endurance or powerlifting workouts. Hence the "narrower, less fleshed-out, equally obscure version" comment.

From what I found, I assumed it was a competing theory, and I was wrong. I didn't realize that it is a long way of saying "fitness" and that your "what we know" statements were saying that CF envelops GPP in a good way rather than an antagonistic way. I hope that showing that a trend in the exercise science is easily covered and delivered by CF helps get it cred in the mainstream fitness world, it sure deserves it.

The Ten Commandments were 10 statements on two tablets according to Deuteronomy 5:18, but when tablets aren't available, two columns. As far as formatting conveying authority (with varying success), google "Ten commandments of" and see who is trying to get some authority out of a better list.

Is crossfit getting so big that they can't monitor what is being put on the main page. Remember that is a representation of crossfit at the core. By putting that Vid on the front page that is saying this is what we do. I know myself this is not what crossfit teaches, but to someone checking this website out for the first time could potentially, if they replicated that form hurt themselves permanantly. I respect what couch has done and thank him for everything he has brought to us. I just hope in the future the vids are screened a little closer.

It's been a while since I heard Dr. Octagon.
Great video!

Coach,

I realize this isn't a grammar forum, but it did take me a while to muddle through #5 as well. I don't know who your intended audience is, but given that you generally write very well, I imagine you value clear language no matter who will read it. My own suggestion for clarity: "Elite athletes, whose margins of victory are very tight, have greater margin for improving performance through improving GPP with CrossFit than can be garnered through additional sport specific training." Use it if you like, or not. As always, cheers for the excellent workouts.

The criticism regarding burpee ROM is fair, especially since its been established clearly during the Crossfit games last year. But I can't complete this workout anywhere close to 2:52 using that much weight and would not feel justified in calling out anyone in the video.

So I challenge those alleging the times didn't 'count' to beat 2:52 using perfect burpee form and post video evidence.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, but wondering if those throwing the stones can step up with a comparable performance of their own.

Coach #70,
I disagree on the "a", and would point out that "a" is an indefinite article, not a definite one. Perhaps you're unaware of the meaning of "definite article". (Did that sound like I was talking down to you? If so, good - read your earlier posts in this thread, and you'll see why I made the "coming across as superior" comment, given your defensiveness.) You’re talking about one of a group of margins, specifically the margin for improving elite athlete performance, though not referencing it specifically as such. This makes the indefinite article appropriate, not the zero article (no “a” or “the”) or the definite article (“the”).
Given your two uses argument (which is a fair, though fairly debatable, point) of the same word in the same sentence in an image somewhere between poster and testimonial, and likely not intended for lingering consideration, I think that streamlining the sentence, and eliminating the redundancy in word usage, if not highly specific meaning, would help get across your message in a more effective manner. That’s all.
Also, you didn’t actually address the lack of subject, nor the poor meshing of the parts of the sentence, which were my main points. Does this make sense: “There's greater margin for improving performance in elite athletes . . . improving GPP than can be garnered through additional sport specific training"? All I’ve done is remove the phrase describing the margins of victory in elite athlete performance, which doesn’t change the connection between the other two pieces of the sentence. That the sentence doesn't make sense is my actual point.
Finally, don't worry about the name, and I'm sorry if I snapped. I had a Contracts teacher who called me "Gilcrest" (as opposed to "Kilburg") for the first six weeks of class, which made being called on an interesting experience.

i need that on a 3'x3' poster!
Pat Barber, OPT, Josh Everett, Dutch, Speal and Khalipa... I will catch up to you! :0) crossfitting for 6 months now! LOVE IT!

The times and people are not what is important it is the use of the video on the main page. Also, using proper form those times could have easily more than doubled. Over half of those reps didn't count. All those people are in good shape but as they say this isn't a clown show we have standards and we stick to those standards there are no tricks if you don't like it !@#$% off. I like this approach I bet paul could kill this workout with less wt and proper burpees and not come close to rupturing a disc. Crossfit is serious stuff and standards need to be enforced. I can't believe there was not a trainer at that gym saying hold up this isn't right. Again I love this stuff and can't hold a candle to paul YET but for his safety and the girls safety they need to know that was not correct form.

Chris the point is they should not have been doing the workout with that wt!!!!!

Re: GPP and comment 46

I have spent a lot of time rowing boats, and training the "old" way (lots of steady state, lots of sport specific training) in order to compete at a national/international level. A little over a year and a half ago I incorporated Crossfit into my training program, and I have data to support each of the ten claims listed above. If anyone needs proof of concept beyond their own personal experience, shoot me an email, I will be happy to show you results.

Re: the main site video and comment 82

Interestingly enough, Paul WORKS at the crossfit gym he did the workout at. Props for the effort but why sacrifice form for time? You're only cheating yourself.

It looks like the owner of the gym told him on a few reps to get full ROM, but unfortunately it was only maybe 3 out of the 25 reps! And as for the burpees, I'm clueless...

@ comment #79 (Chris German):
I think that's the point. He could well have only got 2:52 due to the poor form / not full ROM.

So I don't think the challenge is to beat 2:52 using perfect form - I think it's more like what is the fastest you can do using perfect (or at least 80/20) form? And then *that's* the benchmark to try and beat.

Wow.

Talk about humbling. Thanks so much for the encouragement guys.

This video was shot about a month and a half ago and was my first time I ever attempting the Deadlift-Burpee WOD. Since then I've really started to incorporate DLs into my own versions of WODs. For example there's one I call "Dolores" - 21, 15, 9: 275 Deadlift and Ring Dips. Good golly! I suggest you guys give it a try.

My hat completely goes off to Lindsey by easily handling the men's weight. Fantastic job and very impressive! Keep it up!

Actually, the videos displayed side by side are an informative teaching tool. Not only can you easily compare the form of the athletes, you also have a good visual representation reflecting Dave Castro's shooting analogy. You see the impact of varying degrees of(im)proper form on time. (It's not scientific because there is no control for the fitness of the different athletes, but still it is interesting).

On rest days controversial political articles frequently generate the lazy rebuttal that this is a site about fitness not politics (therefore this site, or its owners, should not be allowed an opinion on any other subject). In the same spirit of intellectual rigor I suppose those that are so inclined now have a fitness related topic to discuss.

#79 Chris

I think the point of the previous posts is that none of the people in the video have displayed their ability to do this workout anywhere near 2:52 either! No one is saying that we can complete the workout faster, just that it can/should be done cleaner regardless of how much longer it takes.

Nick,

I meant indefinite article and thought I'd written "indefinite". I'm intimate with both articles indefinite and definite.

Regardless it is clearly not needed. I will agree with you, however, that removing the parenthetical part of the sentence, and using ellipsis in it's place, destroys, or at least obscures, meaning. Had I written it the way you wrote it, I'd have needed more words to sustain the meaning.

Either way the subject of the sentence seems unchanged to me and obvious.

Your condescension, Nick, is so first nature you cannot recognize it. Your comment to see you after class was the start of this and inspires all the disrespect and disregard that anyone can muster.

Yea I'm a little dissapointed in today's video. It puts too much emphasis on a fast time.

There is a classic video, where Coach says something like "Do I want you to do it right or to do it fast? The answer is YES!"

You need both. I didn't mind Lindsey's form because she is probably using a relatively heavy weight. The dude in the bottom right (Paul I think....sorry if it's wrong) had brutal form. Those burpees were trash. He hardly brought his hips to full extension (which is arguably the most important move in all of cross fit).

To all the people that say "I won't comment because I couldn't do that even with bad form" I think that is weak. You're allowed to be critical (not a jerk), if it's warranted. The message is more important than the messenger. CF is about improving work capacity not fast times at all costs.

Yea I'm a little dissapointed in today's video. It puts too much emphasis on a fast time.

There is a classic video, where Coach says something like "Do I want you to do it right or to do it fast? The answer is YES!"

You need both. I didn't mind Lindsey's form because she is probably using a relatively heavy weight. The dude in the bottom right (Paul I think....sorry if it's wrong) had brutal form. Those burpees were trash. He hardly brought his hips to full extension (which is arguably the most important move in all of cross fit).

To all the people that say "I won't comment because I couldn't do that even with bad form" I think that is weak. You're allowed to be critical (not a jerk), if it's warranted. The message is more important than the messenger. CF is about improving work capacity not fast times at all costs.

I'm definitely a CF nobody, but Paul in the low right was embarrassing. I would hesitate to show anyone that video as evidence that something I do is good.

If I have any problem with CF in general, its heavy weights for time. DL especially seem to come up - and there aren't many lifts which can be more damaging to the back if done with poor form.

I sincerely believe that in the timed WOD's with Deadlifts, bodyweight is a better standard than an arbitrary universal number, and that without proper form, reps cannot be counted. We do plenty of BW lifts already (pullups, squats, etc.) and replicating that simple measurement in lifted mass is a fair and valid comparison.

Awesome post today about GPP

Great stuff to add to my tool box when defining and describing what we do

Thanks Coach

Patty sending love from Vancouver

Does anyone know what those yellow shoes on Paul are?

Question : when i learned burpees it was in a garage with a lowish ceiling which didnt allow to get good air whilst clapping, we overcame this with ommiting the clap and getting good air but still made sure we were vertical with fully opened hips, to this day i still do burpees the same way, my understanding was the clap fully above the head was to make sure the hips were open?

Just to add to that all as with all our techniques we are very strict on body weight form

@ comment #93 (Benny1):
"If I have any problem with CF in general, its heavy weights for time. DL especially seem to come up - and there aren't many lifts which can be more damaging to the back if done with poor form."

No one is forcing you to use poor form - even if the workout is timed. You should still use good form and the resultant time taken is your benchmark. Try and beat that next time using **just as good form**.

"I sincerely believe that in the timed WOD's with Deadlifts, bodyweight is a better standard than an arbitrary universal number"

You are responsible for your own scaling. Scaling is totally acceptable and sensible. You don't *have* to use the prescribed weight, and it has been made clear all over the place that the prescribed weight is for super-human ninja athletes.

i have a comment for the deadlift burpee video...
the shirtless dude...paul...why is he even on there. He doesn't even do a full deadlift, doesn't pull to the top, and his burpees are terrible too, wut's with the girly 1/2 inch jumps and hardly standing up. terrible performance imo.

#99

Super-human ginger atheletes?

i love crossfit and want it to grow but posting that wod video does crossfit no good - lets get some standards that must be complied to before these get posted - deadlifts where the line between the hips and top of head does not become vertical is not a complete deadlift as the hips have never been properly opened - the same should go for burpess, and since when is anything but your hands and feet meant to touch the ground doing a burpess, some of those were nothing but rolling forward onto you face and rolling back up - if people posted pushups looking like that they would be laughed at, i hate to critisice others but those videos are open for the whole world to see, i like to belive crossfit is about accuracy in performance, to many of those reps do not meet that criteria

Happy San Jacinto Day to all my fellow Texans!

#3 Joe
Get yourself a Spinnner or Star Track, commercial model, indoor cycling bike. I have been teaching hard core and highly intense indoor cycling classes for over 12 yrs and they can take a real pounding. Some of the classes I teach are "Crossfit" in nature.

To devotees of this site, the conclusion of the study mentioned in the article seems almost trivially obvious. Granting that the burden of scientific proof is more severe than anecdotal observation, it does raise some important questions. If the conclusion that exercise helps these patients is correct, how could it be that it has taken this long to demonstrate it? Who are these medical professionals who have ignored this possibility until now and what else that these folks are currently espousing should we ignore? The situation is is ludicrous in the extreme.

WOW, everyone is being pretty harsh this morning....Who cares about how someone in the video does the deadlift or burpee's? Maybe the reason for having all 3 people in the video is to show the good vs the bad? And really, whether his technique is crap or not, his time is still amazing!

Everyone's a critic, and everyone has opinions....but most times, they are better kept to themselves.

May God Bless you All!

Ubique!!!

6'2", 230

Comment on the CHF and exercise article. Don't get all excited. The news piece misrepresents the results. Unfortunately, after reading the original JAMA article, it's not so convincing. Good news is that there is clearly no harm from exercise vs. normal care, but the benefits were minimal and only found after some statistical tweaking. The unvarnished data showed no statistically significant difference between the groups. There was a trend towards benefit but the CIs were across 1 and the p values sucked. In other words, the differences were so small that there was no difference. When factored out by predictors for worse out comes, there was a small benefit. In other words, if you didn't let the really sick people exercise, the more health CHF patients would do slightly better. Given all things, I will continue to encourage my patients to exercise and send them to rehab for conditioning because the benefits in other places are good. The benefit of this study is not so much that exercise is good for CHF patients, but that it isn't harmful as was previously thought.

I'm a doctor, too.

#3 Joe, Don't spend alot of money on an indoor spinning bike. You can pick up a used Schwinn Airdyne for under $300. Like the Concept II rowers, they are simple, well built, full body, and capable of putting you on the floor.

CFC 16:58

Didn't like the picture that much. You can find chinks in GPP either "within 2 hours at most" or " within two hours on average" not both."At most" gives the two hours as a limit you can test against. "Average" gives two hours as the mean of a sample where there could be a great many way beyond two hours.

critisizing peoples form is not personal and no one should take it that way, for people who follow crossfit strongly posting these poor form videos allows us to debate and discover whats good and bad but anyone can see that anywhere, and that cannot help crossfit be adopted to a larger part of any community - if that was the first crossfit video i ever watched, i would have walked away and never returned, how can showing that type of form on a internet side viewed world wide ever help the crossfit community - to print those ten gpp statements and then watch that wod would leave critics of crossfit on the floor with laughter

This is totally unrelated to the current topic, but I wanted to give props to what CrossFit has done so far. It has...
...helped me gain confidence in persevering through a "daunting" task. Such is life, eh.
...given me permission NOT to spend all day in a gym working on a range of motion.
...allowed more time to play other sports with much more endurance and strength.
...reduced a lot of knee pain from a lot of previous running.
...taken away my fears of being upside-down. I had a traumatic handstand event when I was 9 and have feared upsidedown-ness since. Now I can do a handstand and something that almost looks like a push up. Needs a lot of work. Getting there. Inverted burpees also in sights.
...given me a healthy sense of competition with a "virtual" community.
...encouraged me to eat properly and wisely.

Hmmm...That's about 2 unsolicited cents.
Oh...Angie in 19:16 (Rx)

I don't think I've ever posted on rest day before, but I have to say that I think the above "poster" (or whatever it is...) could be significantly improved. As someone who has seen a lot of posters at scientific conferences over the years, the follow points should be addressed at a minimum:

1. Who is its target audience? I am going to guess that its athletes who may have heard of CF or GPP already, but that's not clear, especially since GPP is not defined.

2. As others have noticed, #3 contains faulty logic.

3. If it's meant to advertise CF, why aren't there any photos, say of OHS or pull-ups (or inverted burpees if you really want to scare them ;).

4. A quote from Mark Twight is presented without context (who is he?), and is not really appropriate given his storied history with CF.

5. The point in #10 may be true, but to the intended audience it may be difficult for them to distinguish specialized routines from CF. Despite my best efforts explain CF to others, sometimes they still think it is "specialized" compared to just running occasionally.

6. I like the idea of a standard CF poster, perhaps with region-specific information regarding affiliate locations, but this one has a long way to go.

Coach,

With all due respect, this could have been written a lot better. Here are my suggestions to improve it:

#3 (if I understand what you are trying to say) should read, "...his/her GPP, and these chinks can usually be exposed in two one-hour sessions." The first sentence of #4 should be, "Fixing these chinks has immediate benefit within your sport, in ways that are often not obvious mechanically or even metabolically." I won't beat the #5 dead horse any more. #7 should read, "For many sports, CrossFit will reduce..." (shouldn't it be for MOST sports?)

Also, the ordering of these points is illogical. They should be reordered; at a minimum, #10 should be inserted between #1 and #2.

A final suggestion, Coach: I've been reading the Affiliate Blog for about six months. Lis writes beautifully, and I've never seen her make a grammatical or stylistic error. Maybe you should just have her proofread all public offerings in the future.

Respectfully,

Dan

All i need to make my day is to read the comments and see coach bitch slap a poster.

Thanks coach

That Lindsey chick is amazing! How many dudes out there could do what she did? Seriously, I'm curious?

This chalkboard image has some very compelling points.

# 116 Brad,

I tried this WOD last week w/ 240 and finished almost a minute slower than her... She did amazing.

On a side note, I really wanted that chalk board to be my desktop background at work here, but I can't read the freakin icons for my desktop!!! Good stuff CF.

# 116 Brad,

I did this wod last week w/ 240 and finished a minute slower than her...

Great work Lindsey- 275 is probably 2.5 your bw?

I can understand the form polices' gripe. I'll admit, I start good with burpees, but they whack me very quick. You can call me "bunny" around rep 15 on in a row...

And if you are strong with deadlifts, lighter weights can be performed without perfect form. I'm not saying totally negligent form that will cause injury over duration, but you know, it's a fine line.

But stance, grip, and proper range of motion are essential. If these are glaring with error, the trainee needs to stop and reset everything, and the trainee's ego should allow their coach to step in and assist. I appreciate it greatly and thank my coach when he steps in to enforce form and technique.

But I am not going to nag these individuals their performance. Sheesh, 1) they have the courage to suffer a beat down, and 2) they're willing to share it with the public.

In other words, please play nice and be polite. I appreciate their efforts and so should others.

Coach

Didn't realize you actually read the boards. I'm glad you do, it gives me a good chance to say thanks. I slipped a disc a few years ago and couldn't touch my knees afterward. Last week i deadlifted 360 (2x+ body weight) and am more flexible than ever. Thanks for the program!

Benny1 - I agree we are responsible for our own scaling but i love your idea of making the standard for workouts "x times your bodyweight" rather than a number and sending everyone over to brand x for scaling.

Not that it needs it but my opinion is that Paul's performance needed correcting and didn't merit a mainpage video. I thought Karl's form was pretty good and Lindsay was dangerous, but impressive. Anyone who disagrees scares me...

I think we have a responsibility (regardless of our own fitness level) to call that kind of bad/dangerous form out. As someone who learned much of what they know from the videos on the site, presenting that kind of performance as valid in a video teaches all the other little "working out in the basement without a trainer and learning as you go" crossfitters like me to lift like that.

Wondering if anyone has some tips for me...

My workouts consist of solely main page WOD's and I've been doing them about a year now.

I played basketball recently for the first time since last summer and I'm about 3-4 inches short of being able to dunk now. Does anyone know some good workouts to help my vertical?

22/m/6'2"/180#

Yahoo. Rest day.

I've just started CF a weel ago. So, yeah, I'm hurting bad! Haha!

But its good. This for me is a fresh start and an imporvement on my workouts before finding this. I don't know how anybody could badmouth CF. Its intense and it works, faster and leaner results than "Commercial Training"

Until whatever punishment tomorrow brings!!

congrats to whomever that was reppin' crossfit alamo in the boston marathon yesterday. i was the guy with the red cup cheering you on from the sideline.

pwoz #122

increase the size of your box for box jumps! if you usually use 24" use the 30" or even 36" during your wods. also go for max height jumps and then try to increase it next time.

videos=bad form, not within the 80/20 mode of acceptability. many other posters have noted the flaws, i concur

I know, opinions are like @ssholes... here's mine:
Good Article Great workout as rx'd in the vid.

HORRIBLE EXECUTION! This should be filed under "complete workouts where none of the reps counted due to bad form and incomplete range of motion" Tall Carl had some great DLs. All three need to re-learn burpees and should be embarassed by the sloppiness.
I can't come close to matching those times and if it meant I looked like that I wouldn't want to. Head down, hunched over burpees flopping on the ground, getting no air on the jump and not only no claps but on most reps the elbows barely made it above the shoulders. Pukey may visit me for a new reason!

On behalf of Crossfit, I apologize to anyone new to the site who had to watch that video.

Really unimpressed by Paul's form in the vid.

In retrospect, my last post was more combative than I would have liked and I used "its" incorrectly. Complete failure!

Look, I absolutely agree that Paul's performance had much to be desired. His burpees were half of the movement and his lower back was curved when doing the deadlift. Karl and Lindsey did markedly better.

But criticism is easy. And after reading this board for a few months, I get the impression that as soon as a workout video is posted dozens of people immediately claim the effort was invalid due to x, y or z. That's not the supportive community I expected when starting crossfit. Should people critique form when necessary? Absolutely. But give people credit for the effort and provide a correction to the problem.

I'd still love to see someone do this workout with perfect form in under three minutes.

Anyhow, I'm digging myself into a hole here so enough of my ranting.

Enjoy the rest day all!

#17-

BJ got beat down because he was fighting a guy who, at fight night, outweighed him by over 15 pounds. Also, since BJ was jumping up a weight class and was therefore trying to gain weight quickly, I'm guessing that his training didn't include as much cardio as he would have liked. So, for those two reasons he got worked over.

For a long time now, I beleive Chuck has been very predictable and not well-rounded. When Rampage solved the riddle and knocked him out, the rest of the 205 pound fighters waiting in line to get a piece of him.

In either case, Crossfit was not responsible for their losses.

Lindsey's time is faster than mine... Damn

Coach,
Thanks for all the great work and insight. I remember an old Nun that we had at seminary, when we did something bad she would rap our knuckles with a ruler. Nick, son, you just got your knuckles rapped. God Bless.

Nick #57 wrote:
"They don't hang together as-is, and this obstructs the flow of information."

This is of course quite petty, but who the hell posts 200 words of 6th grade grammar class drivel sentence diagramming slogans on a fitness web site and then has the hutspa to hyphenate "as is"?

i think everyone in the xfit community wants to hold themselves to a high standard of training. we all know when our form is weak and can appreciate and recognize strong form in others. that said, when the governing body/site of the sport posts videos representing exercises that aren't done properly, it is a little disheartening. the three in the video definitely got the workout on and kudos for sending it in.

this site, and any other affiliates out there that post videos of their workouts on should be held to the highest standard as they are in a sense, "brand ambassadors". people who know nothing about xfit see this stuff, then do it on their own, claim it is xfit, get a bunch of other people on board, and the you have many people tarnishing the brand when they thought they were doing it right.

i think this community is insanely supportive, but deep inside we are all snobs when it comes to things posted in the public domain and the level 3 trainer comes out to criticize form.

Paul, 0...0...0...0...0...

Are those burpies or are you taking a quick nap?

Great ROM for Lindsey and Karl. Burpies could be a little better. Otherwise awesome job!!

...and as long as we're going to rail on the wording in the GPP picture, how about this for repeated redundancies:

"#4... For instance, more pull-ups makes for better skiing and skiers. Upper body pushing-movements makes for better rowing and rowers."

I think we can safely say that, in addition to skiers and skiing, pull-ups also improve the performance of people who ride skis on snow, schussers, schussing, and plank-footed downhill mountain sliders. And never mind that the plural "pull-ups" and "movements" are both followed by the singular version of the verb "to make."

"#7 Crossfit, will for many sports reduce the total training volume, reduce training injuries, and allow more time for vital sport specific skills and drills."

I, the arbiter-in-chief of Crossfit Grammar, think the comma is unnecessary after Crossfit.

We went through this whole intensity, form issue with the Fran workouts. This though was not efficient from the start. Not to mention the fact that standards keep our integrity but to me thats going to hurt the next day. Just recently being at the regional qualifiers, form like that would only get you extra deadlifts. We need to make sure our people are safe and are training like we fight. Nice push by all but Paul if you keep that up your going to get used to it and be hurting in a few years. Good job to all three not any easy task. The guys at our gym are trying one of the qualifying workouts today.

800 m run

3 rounds of
155# squat clean
20 chest to bar
30 box jumps 30''

800 m run

Its going to hurt, took Chris Spealler 19 something, he's an animal.

Hackman #132,
As is - you're right, my mistake. I'm certainly not claiming to be a guru to get my point across, but my "drivel" and associated chutzpah was in response to Coach's sarcastic offer to parse the sentence.

Also, Coach at #90,
With all due respect, grow up. If you feel the need for defensiveness and "all the disrespect and disregard that anyone can muster" in response to a lighthearted throwaway comment on a debatable point of grammar (which you've still not addressed, beyond simply saying "I'm right" and not responding to substantive comments) on a workout sign, you need thicker skin. And as to the definite/indefinite article, I can only respond to what you write - not what you meant to.

I'm glad to see that so many people have commented on the poor form seen on this video. I have to say I was pretty disappointed to see it on the main site as well, especially without any text overlay comments about the form. Frankly, I'd be a little embarrassed if someone I'd talked up crossfit to (which I do a lot) got that as their first impression of what we do.

Obviously, we should be aware of our form all of the time, but I think we should take extra care if we know a video of ourself might make it onto the main site, and be construed as an instructional video.

Power is work done divided by time. I certainly understand and believe in letting form deteriorate some in order to increase the amount of weight we use, or decrease the time of a workout, but you can still develop the same amount of power with more time simply by increasing work. Getting full hip extension in the exercises (especially getting the body vertical in the burpees) and jumping higher would do that.

Agree about the form!!!

Coach:

For the record, Nick is an idiot, but #5 is still wrong.

Love the workouts. Crossfit is God.

Finally, an interesting discussion! It seems like forever since this has happened.

I think the crossfit community is very supportive, yet able to criticize where necessary. I think Santiago (#121) and Francesco (#133) make excellent points.

There is a time for "hugs and kisses" and a time for constructive criticism. If you skin is thin, don't post your videos (or you comments for that matter).

For all the "lovers" out there, is your skin thick enough to hear the criticisms that will be aired when this gets posted on sites like T-Nation?

Grammar corrections, as a critique of that sign, really? Is that all you've got?

Having seen this video me and a guy i've trained with for around 8 months thought we'd tackle it. We've been doing crossfit for about 4 weeks.

First thing he said watching the video was "we need to have better form than that." So we watched each other closely.

Me - 4:51
Him - 5:23

Also to add to the form debate - I also see many crossfit workout video's where directly after the workout the CFers lie down to catch their breath. This is NOT good, walk around and breath taking sips from a waterbottle.

Very good workout, video has so much room for improvement. - Bad form and bad gym habits lead to hurt people, no one wants to see this happen.

Anyway, goal looks like it'll happen, 7% body fat by august 1st. Drastic improvement since starting CF, I owe you guys alot. Thank you.

Gotta catch up on Parkour and O-Lifts today.

As I watch the video of the deadlift-burpee wod I noticed that the athletes are not jumping that high on the burpee.

Is the standard for the burpee jump only a few inches?

I was always under the assumption that you jump up as high as you can w/ full extension.

It makes me wonder how much better my time would be in wod if I did the burpees as I see in the video.

Semper Fight!

More reiteration here, but I am glad to see all of the posts concerning the woefully poor form on display in today's vid. I do applaud the intensity, but rushing thru a WOD just to get a low time is just plain dangerous. I agree with all concerned that vids like this make it very, very easy for critics of our beloved program to make a case against it.

What was the point of that video?

Usually, if an athlete in a video is using poor form, there is at least some text explanation so the viewer isn't left thinking that this is acceptable. As a strong promoter of CrossFit's philosophy and methodology, I would be more than embarrassed to show that to someone who I was trying to promote CrossFit too. Can we petition to have it taken down permanently, or at least explain why it's up there?

Ja ja ja you know i'm the idiot in here because i'm reading this i should find the way to improve MY times because that's all in what i have to pay attention MY times MY technique...

Bad day for the "community" find a hobie instead argument like that...

Done for today i hope the real crossfitters post tomorrow

soccerman-question about training an unfit 55-year-old from yesterday.

I'm no expert in training people but I am a 54-year-old physician. Although Crossfit is great training for all ages I would suggest great caution with this individual. Consider having him have an "stress test" before strenuous activity if he hasn't worked out in years.
Alternatively start him very slowly. 5 air squats, 5 push ups, 5 sit ups, 10 minutes brisk walking. If he flies through that try him with 2 rounds in 48 hours, and so on.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Ack! my post got eaten!! Lots of grammar snobs today - me thinks some might be missing the point?! Anyhoo - a few rest days for me - severe foot sprain & i cannot put any weight on it. Cannot wait to see what "the sub King" has in store for my wods :) Hugs to all!!!

Re today's article.

I suspect part of the reason for medical professionals advising cardiac patients to avoid exercise is the one that Bingo explained so thoroughly in his comments on tort reform and the medical industry in the rest day discussion of Thursday 090312.

It would seem to be much easier for a plaintiff to establish that it was her doctor's advice to DO SOMETHING (exercise) that caused her heart attack (or the heart attack of her diseased loved one), than it would be for her to establish that it was her doctor's advice to DO LESS/NOTHING (avoid strain) that was the cause.

YEAH! Finally a CF video that utilizes some classic KOOL KEITH!!

man Im shocked to see a video like this and then have it declare paul the winner when well over half his deadlifts had no full hip extension on top, his burpees jumps were not high enough to slide a ruler under his feet, that time is BS I mean dont try to sell the rest of us that time, now i know why my times arent as fast as others if the cf community is going to let this fly, I hear nothing but the people running cf preach about full rom, and good form, so Im a little confused how this video got posted.

The deadlift form in that video is terrible, and you call that a burpee? Where is the jumping knee tuck? Unimpressed! This guy Paul needs some coaching.

A couple thoughts on the posts so far: the standards on burpees (clap in the air, hands behind ears, hips open) that were announced for the CF games were only that—arbitrary standards used for the CF games. If my understanding is correct they were only intended to increase comparability among competitors. If an affiliate requires a six inch jump, or fully open hips (or chest to bar pull-ups for that matter) that is their choice. It makes comparability among affiliates difficult, but so be it.

A rounded back on deadlifts, however, is a safety issue as explained a hundred times throughout this site. Personally I don’t understand why there have been so many responses addressing the issues raised regarding grammar rather than those regarding form, but there are a great many things I don’t understand. Maybe the form was considered acceptable; maybe it was an illustration of intensity vs. form, maybe it was a test of the viewers; or maybe it is felt that the issue has already been addressed. Dunno, but I feel today will be a rehash of the discussions when Rhabdo’s Fran was posted and I don't know that anything was resolved then...

Quick question on yesterday's workout (sorry if it was already asked):

Is the goal to get the most weight each given set of 3? Or is it to max out at 3 reps on the last set?

For example, is it better to do 5 sets of 3 at 315, or is it better to do 295, 305, 315, 325, 335? Or is that the same because the total amount of weight adds up to the same? Thanks!

I'm not to the point of accosting people on the street (maybe next year), but I'm excited about Crossfit ... the blackboard image of what we know about Crossfit, General Physical Preparedness, and athletics. Crossfit methods reduce injury in running, leaping, grabbing, swimming. I know I can quickly sound like a zealot, especially when I hear of my son's buddies in the TAMU Corps of Cadets getting shin splints. I rant on POSE, PNF, metcons, pushing the effort threshold. Because of my efforts and improvements personally, they are beyond just listening, they are doing. Thanks, Coach! Thanks HQ!

I think its great that Crossfit posted the video. This kind of transparency makes Crossfit stronger. It would be easy to only feature 'firebreathers' and edit out any poor flaws. That is not reality.

Ask yourselves, how did your eye become so acute as to pick up on the form faults displayed in the video. Did you all just spring out of the womb with superior coaching ability?

Experience is the best teacher. Showing this video and everyone's resultant critiques makes everyone better as both athlete and coach. The 'hater's are going to generalize what they think Crossfit is and 'cherry pick' Crossfit's flaws to fit their argument on any given day or topic. They have been for years and Crossfit has only grown exponentially.

Uh, Burpee/deadlift video is insane. All three of those participating should be embarrassed that their form was so lazy. Also, their trainer or gym owner should feel even worse because they let them get away with it....shame shame i know your name.

M/49/151/1-1-06

CFSB "b"

Deadlift 3 x 5
135 x 5
185 x 5

235 x 5
250 x 5
265 x 5 (PR is 270)

High rep: 210 x 20 PR

WOD
1/2 "Angie"

10:40 Grip fried by DL on PU!

As a pulmonary and critical care MD well versed in exercise physiology, I have not felt compelled to post since a Rhabdo story about 4 years ago. We all, especially the press, like to draw generalizations about the biases of the various groups and professions, including crossfit, but we chafe when these are unfairly applied to us. Phil S. et al. -- maybe a little GMP - general mental preparedness - is in order. Here's just a start.
Strong Lil Pony's got it right, and the experience conveyed in those posts ought to stand as sufficient evidence that the medical community is neither exercise ignorant nor averse, particularly where disease states are concerned. Pulmonary and cardiac rehab have been a part of good medical practice for well more than 15 years, with well documented and accepted benefits for our patients. Further study is always warranted though, because like crossfit, medicine seeks empiric evidence to validate and quantify how much, what type, when, etc. exercise can be best and most safely employed. No doubt we have much to learn, but for years the gold standard in defining the extent of cardiac or pulmonary organ failure has been the VO2 max, where the VO2 max is no longer muscle group or exerice specific, but set by a limited cardiac output, or limited oxygen delivery due to disease-altered cardiopulmonary physiology. We use these measures or simpler surrogates daily, and they remain the standard for predicting the outcomes and the best timing in many surgical and transplant cases. Furthermore, "CHF" is a lousy, non-specific term for a HUGE variety of derangements. Please don't forget that the risks of a vigorous unsupervised regimen for patients with cardiac disease could be catastrophic, particularly as there is a strong concordance between potentially fatal cardiac arrhythmias and the depressed left ventricular function so common in "CHF". Please be careful how we generalise or what advice might be given inadvertently based on this article.
Finally, though I am not my patient's judge -- I love them and will take care of them no matter what they do -- the data is overwhelming that if they would stop smoking and exercise as instructed, I would have much more time to post here. Once designed and cleared medically, moderate exercise is free, has no real drug interactions, and has few undesirable side effects (perspiration?); yet many of my patients would rather charge the taxpayer for a pill to do the job for them while they sit on the couch and puff away. Go figure, who can blame them?
Great topic coach, and thanks for the opportunity to contribute.

Ahhhh, rest day. One thing I know I can do as rx'd...most of the time.
Have a great rest day.

Well said Rob - CrossFit Camas.

Comment 153- Jumping Knee Tuck? Since when did a burpee include a jumping knee tuck.

If we go by games standards, the only thing wrong with their burpees was a muted hip, and some reps didn't have a clap at the top of their heads. Yes, technically most of the burpees didn't count due not opening the hips all the way, but that does not take away from a great performance by all. And I highly doubt in the thrawls of a rediculous work-out, everyone that has posted bad about their workout, has had every rep in perfect form.

To put a number on it CrossFit asks for no more than 20% degredation on form.

These are a couple of quotes from Pat Sherwood during a Level-1 Cert on the subject in an article on T-nation. Hopefully Pat doesn't mind me using these.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/crossed_up_by_CrossFit

"Unsafe is unacceptable," Sherwood said. "But perfect form is also unacceptable. What we look for is CrossFit slop."

The sloppy ideal is a small breakdown in technical form, maybe 20 percent off from perfect. In CrossFit, that's the optimal balance of effort and safety. "That's where the intensity is," Sherwood said.

"Technique only has to be good enough to increase the intensity," Sherwood answered. "The goal is never perfect form. Remember, it's the speed of the set that is the goal."

So to sum up their WOD.
Safety- Check, some degredation on form,certainly, but not enought to injure (or their trainers would have stopped them. They know their clients better than you do)
Intensity- Check

Open critisizm is a huge part of CrossFit and it's community, but there is also a need to do it respectfully for this community to thrive, or the people new to it will lose interest.

Comments on form in the video - Critique is necessary if Crossfit is going to present itself as a reputable organization, not as an untrained group of individuals rushing through workouts as fast as they can leaving form at the wayside. On the other hand, posting comments that are insulting or attacking the athletes in the video is ridiculous. Critique the form; leave snide/rude comments out of the picture.

Comments on the clarity of the "crossfit poster" - Again, grammar critique is necessary. When presenting information to others in your field of expertise, if you forego clarity and grammar, you will quickly be dismissed. Maybe you don't like it, sad story, but it is unwritten law in academia and most other venues. Comments like #140 by Sylus are nothing but useless statements made my people who don't possess the ability to question authority.

Critique is necessary. Poorly thought out and unformulated attacks are a waste of time. It's astonishing that most of you are adults.

To FM, comment 95. They look like my favorite shoes of all time-- the Saucony Kilkenny sprint flats. Best sprinting workout shoes on the planet.

#162 Mike

20% decrease in form is acceptable with such exercises as burpee's and knees to elbows, but deadlifts? I don't think that is smart.

Anybody think that video would originate in Rip's gym?

25/m/175

can't workout tomorrow so i worked out today instead.

squat clean 5x1
185-205-225-240-250(PR)-260(fx4)

filthy fifty - 24:41
knees to elbows and wall balls killed me.

i cant even express in words how disgusting the overmedication of america is. EVERYTHING needs a pill! and GOD FORBID you take a kid's pills away. thats almost as horrible as taking away their cookie.

duh, exercize works. who DOESNT know that?

My guess is that everybody can agree that a) the poster looks great, and b) the phrasing/grammar could be better.

Why this has to descend into a proverbial pissing match is beyond me.

Thanks to Coach for posting the chart, and thanks to the folks who offered suggestions as to how to make it better. No thanks to whatever condescension may exist on either side.

Everything Shawn said in #163 is right. This stuff matters. But, the responsible parties are aware of this, and if they want to make some edits to make the doc more efficacious, great. If not, we all understood it anyways, and it's not worth any more time than that.

Comment # 165

Paul, lower right, seems like an experienced lifter. If he can rep 275 that quickly then he can probably DL somewhere around 400, give or take. I doubt that 20% at 275lbs will hurt him. This is also assuming he followed one of CrossFit's MAIN RULES/GUIDLINES. Mechanics First, Consistency, THEN Intensity. If he's throwing that weight around at that intesity, then I assume he has proven efficient at the other two.

Doesn't "Every Second Counts" get released tomorrow. Does anyone have a heads-up on where we can purchase? So many teasers, I need to get my hands on one.

Thanks,

Anthony

Question for the HQ folk, where did you get the chalkboard font used for the picture?

Additionally,

Sloppy Form + Full ROM = Useful, allowed for sake of intensity

Sloppy/Good Form + Incomplete ROM = Not useful, only helpful in cheap cuts at time.

If you're going to attempt to justify the form in these videos as a sacrifice necessary for intensity, at least have a basic understanding of how intensity works.

*Earth People - Dr. Octagon is the song. Surprised not more people asked what it was.

M/36/67/245

300/Spartan 300 (subbed assisted pull-ups for pull-ups and dumbell C&Ps for kettlebell C&P's). Time was 21:20.

I was going to make-up yesterday's squats today, but some guys at my gym asked me to join them for this. Ouch. Not sure that it's a true CF workout because I couldn't find it on the website, but it was still pretty awesome.

Comment #172

I don't feel that I'm trying to justify the forms was good enough for the times to count. I feel that due to full ROM not being acheived that these should not be counted as PR's, however they still worked their a$$'s off. I don't think form degredation and not getting full ROM are the same thing.

You can have full ROM with form degredation.

Form degredation and not having full ROM should not be counted towards PR's. I beleive that this video falls in this categorey.

But, again, they still work their butts off during the WOD, they just had some ROM issues.

250# Deads x 5
Burpees x 10
5 sets for time
18:05

Then
15 minute recumbant bike

paul's rom clearly short on all but maybe 2 or 3 of the deadlifts, technique was pretty bad as well. i guess we could argue all day long, but let's just say for comparison's sake...shouldn't we compare work to work? how can i compare full rom work to partial rom work? it doesn't work. someone mentioned 80% good technique as acceptable. that seems a bit much. it's a very arbitrary measurement, but 5-10% loss of technique due to intensity sounds a lot more acceptable to me. what does everyone else think?

I might have been a bit liberal with 20%, but 10-15% sounds reasonable to me.

Oh crap, I said liberal. That doesn't count as politics does it?

"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."

Something isn't quite right today but I can't put my finger on it, I just feel it in my bones. I don't mean because of the GPP/grammar debate, there's just something strangely askew.

We're overdue for an earthquake out here in Cali, maybe that's it...

I, being a professional technical writer with a BA in English and mastery of blah, blah, blah BS commentary think the above poster image provided by Coach Glassman should be completely re-written phonetically and translated into fluent Frontier Gibberish for us living in the rural Midwest.

Notice that this was total run-on statement, yet grammatically correct and requiring a very deep breath if it is to be read aloud. In fact, everyone should practice long-winded writing; it makes us feel like we're making profound statements, like we've learned something with that high school and college education.

Amazin' that there majic that kin b dun wyt Amerycun Anglish.

Let's just all pile up and bug the crap out of Coach with nit-noid tutelage in English grammar and all things petty regarding written statements. I am sure he just LOVES being F ed with on HIS site which HE provides to the public for FREE. He'd be in the right to tell us all to go get bent!

Here's a suggestion; if you have professional editing advice, SEND IT TO HIM or to the site administrator as just that, a suggestion. Why? Well, whoever in charge might take note of who sent free advice and then just might seek it again, thus creating a working relationship. But lobbing opinion based bombs about someone's grammar? Yeah, that really worked today, didn't it?

F/37/124
make up back squats, 3X5:
95x3
115x3
125x3
135x3
145x3 (pr)
150x2
squats are improving...SLOWLY but surely! It helps when there is a lot of room TO improve! LOL! Always make sure they're deep-- if not I stay put.

Great work coach, I won't beat a dead horse about the video. I am just happy to not see a bunch of Frat stupidity here today.

Blah blah blah Frat frat. Real crossfitters were posting until you guys made this your personal communication site. You know there is a message board for all your hugs and love. Gay.

IMAO!

I have a BA and an MA in English. I would love to work for CrossFit as an editor!

It seems like there's a contradiction between these two principles:

1. An increase in GPP will increase performance in a particular sport.

2. GPP necessarily sacrifices maximum performance in any one measure of fitness in favor of balance across all ten measures.

For example, will an increase in GPP help a powerlifter set a new world record, or not? By increasing GPP, won't they necessarily sacrifice some amount of strength?

To everyone out there who is participating daily in cross fit, I envy you and implore you to appreciate being able to work out every day. I was hit by an SUV last Monday evening while I was out for a jog and though I (amazingly) had no life threatening injuries, I've got 16 stitches in my forehead, a broken rib, bruised lung, bruised liver and torn tendons in my foot. Not being able to work out is devestating; working out is such an outlet for stress for me, especially as a busy, dedicated college student.

So to all of you, continue to push yourself and enjoy your workouts and I look forward to being able to join you in a few months.

Comment #182

I think all this "Gay." falls into the category of rest day discussion. Which is encouraged.

IMAO!

#182 Wayne:

Whoa, sounds like somebody needs a friend. "Real Crossfitters"? "Frat stupidity"? Dang, you're gonna hurt our feelings.

No worries though, just big frontal man hugs (pretty gay huh?) and bad English from the Frat Pack!

s'more, would you send this brother some love from Ecuador?

Did some Parkour, vaults (turn, monkeys, speed), rolls and jumps.

Dead-lift

245 x 3
315 x 3
365 x 2
385 x 1
405 x 1
425 x 1
435 x 1 (PR)
...sad to say my trainer told me my back was a little rounded. Gotta get back to the form of things.

Afterwards did the following conditioning wod

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 Handstand Pushups
2-4-6-8-10-12-14-16-18-20 Pullups

21:03

Semper Fight!

Mike, if you read what I wrote again carefully you will see that is exactly what I state. It is ROM that is key, not stringent form. I have a feeling we are both on the same page, especially about the athletes putting out an excellent performance. Like I said previously, critique of form is acceptable, but knocking someones effort makes you look like a jackass.

Whoever attempted to use the fact that they had a BA in English...great? Congratulations, you finished your undergrad, highly makes you qualifed as an expert on anything. This site is free, fact. This site also allows you to post your opinions, fact. Not saying I agree with every opinion posted today, but those who use the old "Itz coachez webside, he kan posts what he wantz!" argument, think up something better.

Deadlift 3-3-3-3-3

cfwu x 2
wu 135x10, 185x5, 225x5

wod: 245-225-235-235-235

thanks to all.

Shawn,

All good, and I think that we are saying the same thing. I just thought you were saying I was justifying the bad ROM. No worries brother.

great wod over on cf football today,had a great time doing that one.i really dread rest days

I found the video interesting...the work effort and overall performance was impressive, but I'd be surprised if the athletes are satisfied with their form on the video. Virtuasity has a place, even when performing workouts for time. 80/20 is an attempt to create a measurable standard of it.

Paul's form and ROM was the most suspect, and it's too bad because, by all accounts, it appears he could perform that workout with full ROM in less than 3:30. I, for one, would have been more impressed.

Sometimes shorting ROM is a manner of giving up on the workout. Things become hard and it's just easier to perform approximate reps rather than face the music and do it right and slower. That doesn't appear to be the case here. Paul's ROM is consistent throughout the WO, so this appears to be an interpretation of what a DL is or is not.

To those who think cardiac patients just want to take a pill and enjoy "better living through chemistry" as we say at work.... look at yourself on your Zone diet. Don't you cheat? Do you plan a cheat meal? Do you look forward to that rest every fourth day? CHF patients are on a "diet" of pills for the rest of their life. There is no cheat day. There is no rest. If it were "so easy" to take a pill, we wouldn't have to worry about medication compliance. People are tired, fearful, anxious, depressed when looking at 12 different daily medications, many which are taken multiple times a day.

Think about how frustrated you can get with a strict diet, at least you know with effort, you will "get better"- improved body composition/ better performance. You don't get better with CHF. (Yes, you live longer- I know all the arguments, I'm just trying to provide what I see from my patients) You're still short of breath, you still have to sleep propped up or even in a chair so you can breathe at night because of fluid build up in your lungs. You still walk around with pursed lips and always sound slightly rushed when you answer the phone. You are ALREADY tired and then someone with a pompous elitist CF attitude tells you "duh, exercise works".

It's not easy to have a strong mind and rise above a debilitating diagnosis. For every patient who decides to take the bull by the horns, there are hundreds of others who do not have the mettle to fight. They give up. They are weak.

Think of how weak you body was before CrossFit. And now think of your *mind*..it was so weak! and limiting! Think of the pain and discomfort you can now tolerate. These people, sadly, do not have that fight in them. Rather, they do not know it exists *already* inside them. (And, yes, for many, fighting means taking medications)
***********************************************
Raine- those are GREAT numbers! Good work girl!

Playoff Beard- I think somethings underfoot too, but I'm *way* over here... weird

Yeah, somebody needs a frontal hug from Pony... JroCk can attest to the amazing powers of my hugs LOL or Allie can tell you about me hitting him on the a$$ with a stick, maybe he needs that! :)

Daniel-San,

I've seen no error of style or usage so egregious as "his/her". That construct should never see the light of day. It's born from political correctness like conflating "gender" for "sex". Etc.

Lisbeth is great. She, like you, makes her fair share of mistakes as well.

For the record, adding "by" after the parenthetical comment for number five may have prevented some folks' misreading. But...adding an indefinite article before the words "greater margin" would be gratuitous. Look to how mathematicians, physicists, and economists use the word. I think the problem for Nick is unfamiliarity with the word and it's technical usage. And...that is my fault.

#182 - Wayne...wayne, wayne, wayne! all i can say is i think you need a hug!!

#143
>>I also see many crossfit workout video's where directly after the workout the CFers lie down to catch their breath. This is NOT good, walk around and breath taking sips from a waterbottle.

Is there some physiological reason walking around and sipping water is better than sitting or laying down?

My heart rate seems to return to normal faster when I am prone... is this a problem?

Thanks Pony:) My squat is definately my weakest link (esp. considering there is almost a 100# diff between my DL & Sq), but I've decided to stop being afraid of it! I am a workout 'Loner' so there is never anyone to critic my form- I think that would help me tremendously! It motivates me to see the terrific numbers all you ladies post day in and day out.
In answer to your Q yesterday... no pork roll for me, just anything with the words "french fries" or "candy kitchen"! He-he-he

BIOPSY- no hyperplasia :) abnormal results BUT no cancer/growths

Thanks allbody for thoughts/prayers/emails, being with me that day... my CF family

Anyone know how to execute a Dragon Walk? Heard it's akin to a lunge but unclear what the differences entail.

YAY! great news Pony - huge frontal Barbie hugs! lol :)

Pony: That is awesome news sister! Monster man hugs :-)

comment #122 pwoz:

"Wondering if anyone has some tips for me...

My workouts consist of solely main page WOD's and I've been doing them about a year now.

I played basketball recently for the first time since last summer and I'm about 3-4 inches short of being able to dunk now. Does anyone know some good workouts to help my vertical?

22/m/6'2"/180#"

Hi Paul,

This is the Vertical Jump thread on the Message Board (wfs): http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=44961&highlight=dunk+basketball

I saw this thread earlier and knew this would be your ticket. I am on the Message Board a lot and it really helps; there's a wealth of information on the message boards waiting for you. Hope this finds you well and good luck to getting your vertical jump bigger than ever!

Btw, check out other links within the thread plus other suggested threads at the bottom of the page. You will need to sign up, though.

GREAT news Pony you rock girl...

And Playoff Beard i just want to see that guy times he have a strong mouth let's see how strong he is and with how many minutes he beat my times it seems you have a lot of time doing crossfit i'm just 7 months let's see how big is the difference between you and me

Lindsay seriousely incredible... I hope you are trying out for the games this year that was insane!!

Comment #54 - Posted by: Playoff Beard a.k.a. PB&J at April 20, 2009 9:24 PM

Man, I wish I could make that. It's the same day as my sister's wedding. Hmmm, I wonder if she'd mind...

I like the poster. To me, its appearance and phrasing gives it a staccato-like quality and it effectively communicates several distinct points in a concise manner. And boy, do the points have an impact. Read it again. They're explosive concepts to set out with such authority. I could offer constructive feedback on the phrasing of pretty much everything I ever read, and at times I hate myself for being a pedant. But it didn't occur to me to critique the poster in that way when I first read it, which says something about the impact the message had.

And on a totally unrelated point, how good is President Obama? He is already a legend. His speech in Langley was inspiring. I hope that isn't taken as baiting or crowing - I am just genuinely impressed with how he's gone about his business.

Peace.

That guy from seattle in the deadlift video had the worst form on the deadlifts and burpees. How can they count that?

I don't mind the grammar or the marginal deadlifts and burpees, but that font...

Joe P #208...did you mention fonts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDiDATbIG-o&feature=related

I love these arguments about CrossFit that pop up about once every three months.

I have been doing CrossFit for 16 months. Why? Because it works, plain and simple.

GPP. Exactly what most people need. Strength training and "cardio" to excess really doesn't meet the needs, nor is it sustainable for the average person, no matter the profession or line of work. There is either an exorbinate time requirement or an equipment requirement that limits one to a fixed location. A GPP, regardless of namebrand, is going to work better for most people, from 15 year olds to 65 year olds.

Now, that being said, there is a requirement, in some of the WODs, for some expensive stuff you are only going to get at a box.....or in my garage. Built up over time with the money you would spend on a gym membership, you have enough to do whatever you want whereever you want. A package from Rogue is affordable for about anyone out there.

Now, with eveything, you see youth and exuburance. Just like with skiiing, you see the younger kids flying down the hill, while those that have crashed a few times taking it a bit easier. Advil and Glenlivet can cure only so much.

Yeah, so the deadlift burpee thing on the video, I would have stopped as a trainer and had some weight taken off. But that's me.

So why CrossFit. Well, first, its free. CrossFit doesn't require me to buy a damn thing. No 5 DVD set, no membership, no nothing. Everything I have done with CrossFit, from attending certs, to subscribing to the journal, to starting TWO affiliates, to trying to get every Soldier I meet and talk to to start using CrossFit isn't for any other reason is that IT WORKS. It is fully explained, supported by evidence, and applied in such a manner that I can train my daughter, wife, mom, or my scout platoons using its fundamentals and foundations.

Listen, if you don't like it, fine. No one really cares. Seriously. We don't. We will continue to do it. We will continue to weigh and measure our food and enjoy our community of zealots. We will continue to seek members to join our cult. We will continue to pay money to get together and get our bags smoked all weekend, only to travel home and make it to work the next day. Okay, so some MMA fight lost. Whoopie. That doesn't affect me, really at all. What is the point in that argument?

Chuck Liddell just lost, what does that tell you? Getting older sucks. Plain and simple.

So go ahead, pay your membership and do your bicep curls. Do your incline bench presses and your tricep extensions. Again, no one cares. Go to GNC and pay your money for your suppliments, I'll continue to eat meat and vegatables, nuts and seeds, some starch, little fruit and no sugar....not counting my morning coffee.

Oh yeah, its a free country, I know, I have had to shed blood to keep that way, so don't lecture me on it.

although the video was horrible I just wanted to point out some things regards the posts I`ve read.
There are differences between ROM standards and form. A rep that completes ROM standards but has bad form still counts as rep. See deadlift with rounded back, however bar goes from ground to 180 degree hip angle. Also there is only two ROM requirements for burpee, chest to deck and 180 degree hip angle at top with clap in air. It doesn`t matter if you flop around like a fish, as most of us do when at full intensity.
I am very dissapointed with the ROM on most of the reps though. When we all did angie the other day and people were claiming 10mins I was thinking the same things. that works out to 1.5 sec per rep. With full pushups that is complete and utter BS. Send in some vids and let everyone critique your times like these guys in the video have done

A little more love crossfitters.

Oh and or those of you who think lindsay or karl did better because of deadlift ROM from paul: not one of lindsay's burpees her chest touched the deck and you can say the same for a lot Karl's

Finally read Rippetoe's two books this past weekend, quite fascinating how he breaks down all the movements. Just out of curiosity, in his "Strong Enough", he talks about the numerous injuries that he has sustained, several devastatingly severe. On the other hand, he discusses how powerlifting is for everyone. There are certain levels to which I get, especially in Squat and Deadlift, in which I am pretty sure I could go a little heavier, but get nervous about really injuring something. I guess just seeing if people had advice/insight as to the balance between serious powerlifting and not lifting hard enough. I keep desiring to get into powerlifting, but each time I start going with others who do, my joints feel awful, my running/sports skills plummet, etc.

Goat!.. funny I was thinking I wanted to go on Playoff Beard's hike too...LOL I do not have anything as fun as a wedding this weekend, so maybe I will hike up to High Point instead.

cynthiaj- today's grammar war reminded me of the Python wrestling skit...
“Tonight, instead of discussing the existence or non- existence of God, they have decided to fight for it”

Pony - awesome news girl. what a relief

Answer to MMA inquiries regarding Chuck/BJ:
1. BJ Penn no longer crossfits (nor has he in a long time)
2. Has anyone ever seen Chuck gas? (I haven't and I am a huge mma watcher)
Crossfit is for over all fitness; it get you faster, stronger, and get you a bigger gas tank but it is not a substitute for sport specific training (in this case sparring, grappling, etc). Chuck did not lose because he gassed i.e. it is not the fault of his conditioning program.

Now for the video:
1. The girls effort was impressive. nuff said
2. Paul: the issue is not form (although a "lesser" man might have snapped in half with DL form like that) it is with ROM. Just about no DLs ended with hips fully open (180 deg) and shoulders back; the same can be said for the burpees. So what if it was a PR; PRs are not PRs if the movements change from one workout to another (i.e. if your ROM gets worse between the last time and this time).

I know that people are saying: "you have no right to critique because you could not do better" and maybe that is the case. However, I love CF and everyday people see videos like this that are put out by CF affiliates to showcase a workout/athlete and it just works to push people away because "form does not matter." I do not know if I agree but this video sure showed that ROM must not matter as much as I thought it did.

What really bothers me is that there was someone watching every single rep Paul did and he never said a thing until Paul dropped a rep of the DL. Whats up with that?

On days when I catch a glimpse of myself reflected in the growing pool of DNA collecting beneath me, I, too, admit to losing sight on form; form of my burpee, clean, jerk (or anything else for that matter). Instead, as a trick for the mind, I more easily remain connected to sheer power of the moment. Like in moments when “Murphy” rounds the bend at a 100 whatever, I more readily (to be honest) call on the hope that we are truly creatures with great potential. And in that moment, through the sheer force of will, when I finally gas out at “98-99….100” I see the hope come true: we have more potential than we know or realize. For me, then, more than any element, I take away from the regimen of CF WODs (including the quickly decreasing likelihood that I will die from the effects of obesity) the reconnection to my own sheer force of will, and I see my CF colleagues each day prove again and again (bad form and all) that we can achieve more than we believe we can. So forgive a post that is hardly scientific or rational. Crossfit’s real contribution (for us non-elite sorts out here, perhaps more than for others) is its ability to make each of us powerful. That’s pretty cool.

Congrats Pony.

PB- I thought it was THIS weekend. Memorial Day weekend, eh? Still can't do it. I am walking a 5 mile race with my pops that Saturday. :) He recovered from his tumble last month. Like a true CrossFitter, he is scaling his WOD.. he walks now instead of running.

Strong Lil Pony # 12

Have you had any exxerience with CHF patients taking CO-Q10. Its a supplement responsible for the emittance of ATP from the mitochondria. The efficacy is incredible.

So many of your CHF patirents I'm sure have been on statins for years. . . further lowering their CO-Q10levels.

My own mother once had an EF of 30-35% and now is 50%.

Just wondering

Tim

I PR'd a Ben and Jerry's (Americano Dream) and slept. Great article, its amazing how much common sense can get you.

decided to go for max rep kipping pull-ups today as a fun (okay, not really) thing to do for a rest day. On the 45th one, my grip slipped off the somewhat slippery bar and I landed flat on my back about seven feet below. The landing was perfectly flat and on those harder rubber mats, which protected against injury. but my pride was wounded and annoyed, because I usually do a decent bit more before failing, especially so flamboyently. Ah well, another day...

#135 hackman - the comma splits the subject and verb without introducing a parenthetical element. it's wrong!

Did you watch the Deadllift-Burpee workout. Are burpees just falling down at the bottom of a push up on your knees and legs and getting up. I understood them as getting in the push up position (not on my knees), doing a real push up and doing a true effort jump to finish it.

"Blah blah blah Frat frat. Real crossfitters were posting until you guys made this your personal communication site. You know there is a message board for all your hugs and love. Gay."

Comment #182 - Posted by: Wayne at April 21, 2009 1:04 PM

Wayne, this is part of Crossfit, the community aspect of what we do. The affiliate page is subtitled "Forging Elite Community", and I believe this is a venue for doing just that. We are strengthening the common bond which is the essential glue between individuals in our community...

In case you didn't know, "FRAT" stemmed from "F*** reading all that", coined by Jakers back in February. There are several of us (myself included) who feel the occasional need to FRAT post, and it's just a cheesy little nickname. I love the atmosphere this little group has created and cannot wait to meet them in person.

If you feel the need to skip a FRAT post, go ahead. Just don't blame the poster that their post wasn't caught by the spam filter, or hadn't been deleted by admin. In my humble opinion, FRAT posts are an important asset to the CF community.

M/20/5'9.5"/133.4 lbs

Did barbell back squats in a real gym for the first time...

Did yesterday's back squat
1st three: 95lbs
2nd " ": 115lbs
3nd " ": 135lbs
4th " ": 155lbs
5th " ": 1st rep 185lbs (barely-ALMOST fail) 2nd-3rd reps: 170lbs

Cant wait to try legitimate deadlifts with a barbell!

Tim- YES! coQ-10 is an amazing supplement for cardiacs, as well as hawthorne, red yeast rice, green tea and gotu kola. I am *very* supportive of herbs and enzymes, however the medical community frowns upon them and I can't recommend them to my patients (I was even *told* not to recommend generic fish oil capsules, instead trumpet prescription Lovaza, and I was told NOT to chart/document that I had given a patient accupressure for pain because I would get in trouble) I don't have a medicine cabinet at home, I have an vitamin cabinet :) People at work (hospital and gym) know that if they're interested in a natural remedy- see me. If I don't know the answer, I'll find out.

EF can improve, its not unheard of, especially with significant lifestyle intervention. How wonderful for your mother. My mama is definitely thriving due a rigorous medication, nutrition, exercise and herbal regimen (having a fantastic sense of gratitude & optimism helps too). At 77, she has outlived her parents by almost 25 yrs. Lucky me.

Well said Herm...you are the man bro

I'm somewhat amazed at the level of some of the comments surrounding the posted image and it's wording and grammar etc. To my memory many of the statements seem pretty much verbatim of Coach's own words used in his video lectures around GPP and CrossFit. I don't recall anyone in the audience pulling him up on his phrasing or grammar in those lectures! I think the statements are precise, and encapsulate what most CrossFitters believe and practice anyway.

wow..a day of rest, yet my legs continue to become more and more sore.....wow....they are gonna be hurting in the am, and I'm wondering what is coming up for tomorrow.

I agree with Rob #157

Doesn't watching bad form help us to not only coach others but to become aware of those areas needing improvement within ourselves? How can we know good if we don't understand bad?

Coach is no dummy and posted that video for a reason (obviously! Look how much debate he inspired). Just like he doesn't pull WODs out of a hat, he doesn't just put whatever video up. Of course he noticed the bad form and I'd argue that the video belongs on the site and way to go all who critiqued (constructively) the form. It deserved it.

The idea that the video should not be seen by the newbies doesn't make any sense to me. If someone is new to Crossfit and only watched that one video and completely judged Crossfit as a program on that one video, then they aren't destined for Crossfit. This program requires much more investment than watching one video with obvious bad form (did it really need a disclaimer?). Everyone participating in Crossfit, new and tenured, should be able or taught to recognize good form and bad.

Coach, once again, thanks for this wonderful program, as it has positively impacted every aspect of my life.

M/32/6'2"/195

rest day run: 30 minutes 3.65 miles

Latham Fell Comment #184 makes a brilliant point.

Hey! Great Rest Day. Come on...fitness, health, WOD's posted so we can discuss form. Multiple Coach sightings (Dude, do you guys know where he's posting from?). It's a good day to be a Crossfitter!

1) English and grammar. I am the son and grandson of English teachers. The English is only so-so, and Coach has written much better sentences. But seriously, did any of you REALLY not understand what that poster is saying? Seriously?

2) Article. Thanks to Prole #150 for remembering. Also to David T #160 for going to the original source for us and discussing quite reasonably what the article really means.

Medicine in general and most physicians are risk aversive. First do no harm. What will be interesting is to see if medicine takes this little pilot study and runs with it (no pun intended).

3) GPP. General Physical Preparedness. Dave #210 gets it, doesn't he? GPP works for pretty much everyone, especially for those of us who only have time for GPP, eh? I have used this analogy before and it is apt here: GPP is the foundation upon which you build SPP (Specialty Physical Preparedness); elite specialist athletes appear to get better at their specialty when they pay a little more attention to their foundation.

4) Flopping after a WOD, #143 (with a short response from Rod #196). Sorry Dude, you are wrong. Search around 9/08 for a series of posts on the subject of flopping. There is no physiologic evidence that flopping is bad, and indeed going down increases venous return by reducing gravity-induced pooling. As Rip said, don't make me sic the electrophysiologists on you!

5) Finally, ROM, form, and video WOD's. The ROM is not great on any of the WOD's. It is what it is. I will not belabor the point by repeating observations from above. Less work was done than prescribed. We saw significant efforts, however, and we should celebrate them.

Let's remember the entirety of the "shooter" allegory that Dave Castro discussed (and that Coach actually introduced in an earlier video). There were three illustrations of targets: tight circle of bullseyes (too accurate--the shooter can go faster), shots all over the target area, some in and some out (too fast, not accurate enough), and shots in a loose circle mostly within the center of the target (just right, fast enough to be just a little bit inaccurate). How would you describe the three videoed athletes using the entire 3 shooter example?

Remember, critique the performance, not the performer.

And yeah...that's right...you already knew this, just like Dave #210...it's ALWAYS a good day to be a Crossfitter!

I can't wait until Coach posts Wedneday's WOD.

Reload...reload...reload

Looks like I missed a good rest day, but that's how it goes. Aside from my real job I trained two clients, did some play with 'athlete' box squats (friggin humbling but maybe this is how I can fix my squat without having to get a squat divorce and go date a totally new squat), and did the p-snatch/100 pound sand bag shuttle in 5.50 or so. Kids did it with me - even the three year old.

Thanks for the summary Bingo! Paul

HOLY F*** THOSE WERE SOME OF THE UGLIEST DEADLIFTS I'VE EVER SEEN. WHY WAS THIS VIDEO POSTED?

THE BURPEES WERE NO BETTER.

CRAP.

#136 and 163 Thank you, excellent posts.

I'd like to see some math/research on ROM/form/intensity . . the easy, and not intensely informative example is the pullup vid with x number of pullups being done non-kip and the same x being done kipping in about half the time.

Tuesday night at the Y.

Today's WOD:

250 double-unders (or AMRAP in 15 min)
75 DB squat cleans

I managed 180 d/u's in the first 15 minutes (attempts counted). 10# DB's for the squat cleans.

24:49

Wow. I haven't posted on here in ages, but after rading all of the discussion in the first 190 posts about form, I feel the need to add in my two cents. I've just spent the last 10 minutes hearing nothing except "how could they post that horible video" and "that form sucks and shouldn't count," but I have yet to hear anyone address the issue of the athelete's safety. Everybody seems so quick to condemn them in the video for their performance, when in truth, they could have really hurt themselves. It's great to cheer on your buddies in a WOD and we've all sacrificied form for intensity somewhere in our training, but I feel a trainer (and even fellow crossfitter) has the responsibility to step in and voice their concern when they see form that it just unsafe and has the possibillity for injury. This is how unsuspecting women on "The Biggest Loser" can wind up with stress fractures in their hip when all they ever wanted to do was become healthy.

finally the back feels better! i think i am going to give tomorrow a go. i have my dr's appt tomorrow morning and will get the results of the x-ray. just going to have to do some double days to get caught up. i've missed some great looking WODs!

Coach #195,

If you think "his/her" is so egregious (I fully agree, btw) then why is it included in your original? Please excuse me if I am letting some classic extra-dry Coach humor sail over my head.

S/F

Dan

What a load of crap on the site today.
The "Here's what we know about CrossFit, GPP, sport training and athletic development." article is dead on. Thanks Coach.
I turned the video off after one round.
If you can't do the exercises with correct ROM, drop the intensity by slowing down or dropping the weight. It's that simple.

#160 Dave T. - Thanks for your thoughtful insight!

Fantastic to see that you are part of the growing number of physicians involved in this community.

Have you put away your hockey stick from San Anton?

Kathy

I have a sneaking suspicion tomorrow's workout is going to be a killer...

And yet I'm excited...

Normally I am not one to comment on this, but in that deadlift burpee video, there were many incomplete reps, for the sake of their fitness, someone needs to harp on that with them. Of course, it could be a bad angle or bad video in general, but Paul was not going all the way up on his deadlifts and many of them were going to their knees in burpees. What's up with that? I've never gone to my knees, is that a trick to do them faster or something? Is it "legal?"

BJ Pen was gassed in his fight versus GSP

We have all the other versions so I think it's time for

CrossFit Standards Bias

Really, videos like these remind me that I can't compare my time to whatever anybody else posts on here as their time. All I can do is see how it stacks up to my own PRs.

Workout from Sunday-travel day

100 pushups
100 situps
100 squats
100 arm curls (subbed for pullups)

10:24

Tomorrow looks fun! and by fun! I mean painful and heavy . . . I can't wait!

And yes, BJ Penn was a little gassed vs. GSP, but GSP is one of the best conditioned fighters in the world and he pushes his opponents to fight at his pace.

First workout with the new crew! We did the Crossfit Football Wod

21, 15, 9
75lbs PP
ring dips
burpees
row for calories

Webb: 17:16
Deas: 22:00
Larson: 24:50
Rizzo: 22:00
Slyter: 23:00

Shawn, I apologize for the late reply because I don't have Internet connection at home right now. Apparently my attempt at humor (I suggest you go back and read the entire post) didn't make it through, so I'll just be blunt.

It would be nice to see fellow CrossFitters who benefit from Coach's generosity in sharing this open source format to the public to be a little more courteous and show professional potential by sharing edits in a little more respectful and maybe discreet manner via a personal e-mail to him or the site's administrator.

But you know what? I don't recall there being a public call for a request to edit the document. Which in fact didn't warrant foolish editing remarks provided in amateur fashion regarding the document's content.

If the initial reviewer/reader had said, "Hey, I don't understand this statement," then fine, but he didn't. He attempted to tell the author, Coach, that he needed to rewrite the content based upon his reviewer opinion(as if he were appointed that status), mind you, without providing a respectable reason why, nor attempting reasonable discourse. What provided was an attempt to say something cute online either to impress himself or someone else.

Rest Day Fun {21-15-9 OP 75#, RD, Burpee, Cal Row} 20:11 [50y/m/10st12/70"]

James,

"But you know what? I don't recall there being a public call for a request to edit the document."

I guess we all interpret "Post thoughts to comments" in different ways.

For thousands of people, CrossFit is not just a pastime; it's a source of income. Many people, myself included, have inferred that this is going to be the first official CrossFit poster, and thus an integral part of CrossFit's public image.

If I owned an affiliate (hopefully I will in the next couple of years), I would not put the picture on my wall as a poster or even as a 8.5 x 11 printout. It's confusing and poorly written, with all due respect to whoever wrote it (probably not Coach, due to his own stated problems with some of the phraseology).

In other words, this isn't a matter of whether or not we hardcore Kool-Aid drinkers understand what Coach is talking about. We obviously do. The reason I and others have made suggestions for revisions is because we love CrossFit and we want to see as many people doing it (and doing it properly) as possible. A less cumbersome, more clearly worded CrossFit poster would certainly further our efforts to reach that end.

S/F

Dan

After all of this, what comes to mind is 'Welcome to Democracy!'
You are free to roam the site.

More propaganda. I think it's ironic the best way to train for the CFT is not to do CrossFit.

I don't find that ironic, since CrossFit Total is a pure strength measure.

I'll take 2 posters "as-is"... bill me! :)

Eric,

And the best way to avoid it?

Topic: it might be useful to consider medicine as a system defined by the principles of tradition and "above all else, do no harm" (first line of the Hippocratic Oath). These are principles embraced by sincere, thoughtful, and diligent people because in sum they appear to work.

These two principles, taken in tandem, will lead inevitably to a system that is quite resistant to change. Now, to the extent that any proposed change might lead to things getting worse, conservatism is well warranted. Thalidomide (which I was reading may have been developed by the Nazis as a counter to nerve toxins) was never sold in the US, if my memory is correct.

But self evidently, it also becomes difficult to make progress that is radically new. We grow by inches, not miles. And most of the increase in longevity in the last 100 years can be attributed to improved nutrition, eradication of diseases through DDT, immunizations, and other means, increased access to hospital emergency care (critical in heart attacks), and decreased rates of smoking.

After that, we spend annually prodigious sums on things like cancer research, and as far as I can tell, have VERY little to show for it.

It would seem to me that two things might make it easier to make progress. First, use of the Black Box approach. Try things to see what works. If it isn't directly harmful, then bracket your reservations about whatever it is--say relaxation therapy or whatever--and add it to the therapeutic regimen. I think at times M.D's have a bit too much of a need for control to allow things they can't personally explain in detail. They share this with fitness professionals.

Two, make it easier to do "risky" research by doing what appears to have been done here, and make waivers very enforcable, so if something bad happens, they were warned. Quite often, it seems that experimental treatments are available for condition X, but doctors are not allowed to do trials, even with informed consent.

My two cents.

Damn, people. I see a lot of name-calling and not a lot of constructive suggestions. To take what Coach provides free of cost for so many people and throw it back in his face with a grade for grammar and style is thankless and cold. His patience with the issue impresses me.

Here is my suggestion to make #5 flow a bit more gracefully:

"There is greater potential for improving performance in elite athletes, whose margins of victory are very tight, by improving GPP with CrossFit than there is by additional sport-specific training."

My main quibble with the original is the use of the word "where" rather than "whose" to refer back to "athletes."

I also replaced "margin" with "potential," since I think that's what we're talking about. Both are perfectly valid, but this addresses Nick's concern about using two modalities of the word "margin." I also added in the contentious "by," both before "improving" and "additional," which clarifies the contrast being made between the two possible training methods.

Coach - Thanks for everything you continue to do. Writing for the lowest common denominator is something I have experience with, and I would be more than honored to volunteer my time putting an extra set of eyes on anything CFHQ is producing.

Allow me to preemptively clarify that I'm not calling anyone in particular the "lowest common denominator," but rather referring to the blistering clarity of writing that the modern world appears to demand. It does make it tough to be creative.

Oh, and Nick: The subject of the sentence is "THERE." "There is" and "there are" are perfectly legal pronoun/verb constructions, and, in fact, complete sentences (albeit undescriptive ones) unto themselves.

As in "There are twelve beers in the fridge, and they belong to Goat."

Actually, John, the subject of the sentence in question is "margin". "There" is not a pronoun, it's an adverb.

Goat, in your example, the subject would be "beers".

I'll take clarity of thought over clarity of expression any day. Some of our best writers are idiots.

Why can't people apply that level of analysis to ideas?

I guess I'll have to add malapropisms and imperfect grammar to the very short list of things that can still be debated.

GPP lol marketing.

John #263 - I agree with Daniel-San at #265 on the subject of the sentence; it's the *margin* that *is*, rather than the *there*. (Forgive the asterisks as emphasis; it's awkward, but I think it works well enough here.) "There is" and "There are" work as sentences because there's an implied subject being discussed, even if it's unclear, as you point out. But I do like your re-draft of #5, which I think substantially clarifies the sentence and allows it a better flow.
And Goat at #264, that sounds like a perfect afternoon.

You may be right there... this appears to be a case of what's called "expletive construction," which I've never heard of, and because it could be rewritten "Greater potential exists..." (using my version), "potential" (or "margin") remains the subject. I'm still not 100% convinced, because "there" is used as a pronoun and should therefore be able to serve as the subject. The sentence could be distilled, without pesky meaning-ascribing clauses, to "There is margin." (Subject, verb, object.)

But I guess it's worth admitting that it really doesn't matter!

Either way, it's my beer so keep your filthy paws off of it.

Burpee/Deadlift workout: Possibly the most concerning part of watching Lindsay and Paul round their backs on every single deadlift, and Paul not open his hip on ANY deadlift OR burpee is that these two are COACHING classes and teaching their athletes this terrible form! And it's very unfortunate that there are so many unknowing, innocent athletes who think they're receiving quality coaching. It is SOOOO frustrating to watch this happen, particularly on the Crossfit main page. It's a shame there can't be quality control.

5400' above sea level

swim: 500,400,300,200,100

run: 8 x 400m < 90's
(first interval workout in 2 months)

That dude paul in the dl burpee video is totally shorting the dl and his burpees are a sloppy mess.

I hope the people at the trials dont allow that junk form...............

The saddest part of the DL/Burp video was when 6 people who work at NW Crossfit congratulated Paul for shorting his workout.

Paul is a strong athlete and is taking a hard, but deserved, run here. As an average athlete who travels to many boxes on the West Coast, I have found some significant differentiation in the standard ROM in Seattle.

My hope is Paul and Lindsey can find a strong coach who will help him help others to adhere to our standards before they hurt themselves or someone else.

One of the more interesting recent developments, to me, in cardiac care, is that they are now saying that chest compressions, alone, can often be enough to save lives in the event of a "cardiac event". No mouth to mouth.

Last time I did my CPR class--several years ago--I talked this over with my instructor, and one of the things that occurred to me is that normal air actually has MORE oxygen in it that air we exhale, which has a higher percentage of CO2.

I'd be curious to hear any commentary from professionals on this.

Also, they no longer teach the Heimlich. The chest compressions serve for that, too. All you do is add mouth sweeps, if memory serves. They do of course still teach mouth to mouth for that, too, but I'm not sure how much it helps.

Any comments anyone may have on that, too, would be appreciated. I know we have first responders and M.D.'s on here.

Slowing down, so let's take it off-road: Here's a nice summary of the book the General Secretary of the People's Party helped Chavez catapult to at least the Amazon bestseller list: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=f77b74e4-8d02-4afd-8fc4-c3f5c735e916

One of my favorite (and most dreaded) WOD's on video along with Kool Keith as Dr. Octagon? That deserves applause!

Pedro made a Wod up for the rest day.

5 rounds for time:-

5 Power cleans @ 60kg
10 Burpees
15 Pull-ups
20 Ab-mat Sit-ups

Had to do my cleans at 40kg and band asst pull-ups

Time 29min 34sec

Hated the burpees, everything else was ok but they were murder. What was worse was that Pedro took less than half my time. I was on my second last round when he started and I just finished in front of him.

Had the usual twats in the weight room getting in the way. There was a group of 4 blokes who went about together as if in a chain gang, one worked out, 3 stood and watched then the next worked out, 3 stood and watched. They could have got so much more done, if they could have moved away fromm each other, instead of moving about in a huddle.

They also kept on playing with the band for my pull ups and standing on my abmat, ended up asking if the would watch what they were doing. Don't usually get annoyed at the gym but they were just oblivious to anyone else and could not see that they were a massive pain in the butt.

Good Fun

I have a question, because I am curious not because I am criticizing anyone, I just watched the deadlift/burpee workout demo that was posted, although I think it is a great workout, I don't understand why those who were in the video were sacrificing their form. Shouldn't they be trying to use the good form as fast as possible and just trying to finish as fast as possible?

I agree Andy. Not too long ago Dutch came up and gave us some lessons where I work "Lumberjack Crossfit" and he said that usually you will start to lose a lot of form as you get exhausted. Personally, I try to keep my form as close to perfect as possible, and make sure the people grading me stay strict, I would rather do everything right and have a bad time, then do it half right or totally wrong and have a good time, even if I have to rest a little more between exercises.