April 17, 2009

Friday 090417

Rest Day


Enlarge image

Rogue Fitness vs Practice CrossFit by CrossFit Again Faster, CrossFit Journal Preview - video [wmv] [mov]

CrossFit Risk Retention Group

"Stoicism 101: A Beginner's Guide for Entrepreneurs"
by Ryan Holiday - The Blog of Tim Ferriss

Post thoughts to comments.

Posted by lauren at April 17, 2009 5:18 PM

Thank goodness...my hands are a hot mess.

Comment #1 - Posted by: Bunn at April 16, 2009 6:28 PM

That was one tough cycle. Very interesting article as well.

Comment #2 - Posted by: d.dot - cfhollywood at April 16, 2009 6:41 PM

Just finished Thursday's WOD.


As Rx'd: 3 rounds + 25 box jumps.

The shoulder presses took everything I had, I certainly did not do Daniel's memory justice. Rest in peace brother.

Comment #3 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 16, 2009 6:56 PM

I still owe Helen today but will be happy for the break.

Happy rest day people

Comment #4 - Posted by: Rookie - Crossfit Gold Coast at April 16, 2009 6:59 PM

Love the rest days!

Great Video! Looks like a good one to use with my Marines!

Semper Fi

Comment #5 - Posted by: Dustin Stalter 30/70/205 at April 16, 2009 7:01 PM

I'm the luckiest CrossFit girl in the world this weekend - I've got my 3 favorite people in the gym training with me - Brendan, my Mama and my little Boo!

It was the coolest thing to see my Mom and Brendan doing pull-ups side by side and little Ethan cheering them on while I timed them. Great moment in my life!

Comment #6 - Posted by: AllisonNYC at April 16, 2009 7:11 PM

I just had the wonderful privilege of introducing my wife, Beka, to crossfit. She usually does not like going to the gym, but I persuaded her to come if I join her. We did Helen, I needed to complete it, and we had an AWESOME time!

as rx'd: me 10:50 (previous for 3/1/09 was 11:43)

modified for Beka (5kg KB and gravitron at 85% of BW): 18:50

I am sooo proud of my angel. She really kicked it into high gear and wants more.

3,2,1, GO!!

Comment #7 - Posted by: Dan in Warminster, PA at April 16, 2009 7:20 PM

does anyone have any advice on the importance of massage to aid muscle recovery after workout?

types of massage and frequency? how soon after a workout to have one?

Comment #8 - Posted by: wollongong australia (m23yr /173cm/72kg) at April 16, 2009 7:26 PM

Happy rest day everyone, I love all you guys!

The Stanley Cup Playoffs started yesterday and so did my playoff beard. If only I could grow the hair on my head as well as my face :-)

Fat Tony: We were neck and neck on the last WOD, way to go brother. Hopefully you'll always remember to hit the head before you work out ;-)

Strong Lil' Pony: Joe vs The Volcano always makes me feel better too. "Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life."

Hope all is well with you.

Eric Gohl: Today is a new day bro, make it a good one :-)

Herm and Cookie: You guys are so cute...you make me want to barf. J/K. I'm going to refer to you as "Pillows" and "The One Armed Bandit" from now on. Hopefully my beautiful Wife and I will get to meet you guys in Santa Cruz next month.

JroCk: Great interview on Crossfit Radio and congrats on the new baby. As a father of two boys, I know the incredible, indescribable joy of fatherhood. Enjoy each moment, it goes by really fast!

Holmer: Thanks for pushing me man, I'm glad to have you as a friend and workout partner.

Never quit!

Comment #9 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 16, 2009 7:29 PM

Just finished "Danny"

3 Rounds + Box Jumps + 9 Push Press as Rx'd

Good way to honour a true Hero. Wish I had more in me. Looking forward to a rest day!!

R.I.P Danny

Comment #10 - Posted by: Warren Riley at April 16, 2009 7:30 PM

Finally a rest day and I just got my Rogue Bar and 230 lb bumper set. I am sure I will have plenty of chances soon.

Comment #11 - Posted by: Lee Hoy at April 16, 2009 7:33 PM

I almost forgot...GO SHARKS! Beat the Ducks!!!

Comment #12 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 16, 2009 7:37 PM

Mmm...rest day. You better believe i already owned up on a large Midnight Truffle Blizzard from DQ (which i whole heartedly recommend). It was delicious. Maybe that's how i gained my few extra pounds back haha. Back to 165 woo hoo!
Hope you all enjoy the greatness of a rest day, after this last cycle i totally need it. Haven't been this sore in a while.
Wanted to thank those of you who cheered me up on my "not so Helen" day haha. You know who you guys are.
Big hugs to the FRAT :) Hope you are all doing well and enjoy your Friday! The weather is going to be b-e-a-uuuuutiful! :D

Comment #13 - Posted by: Eric Gohl 22/5'10/165 at April 16, 2009 7:42 PM

Off topic, but thought it was worth mentioning:

Many of us are familiar with the book, Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell. One of our WOD’s “Murph” is named after one of his three team mates that was KIA alongside him. The following article is an account of some degenerates that took the liberty to shoot and kill Mr. Luttrell’s 4-year old yellow Labrador, Dasy. A gift that was given to Marcus to help him cope with the loss he suffered fighting the Taliban. If you are one given to pray, please pray for Marcus.


Comment #14 - Posted by: Greg/M2 at April 16, 2009 7:45 PM

Rookie, Eric Gohl, s'more, the others who have helped:
I somehow always underestimate how hard a crossfit workout is gonna be.

In my hotel room I did 3 rounds of:
30 pullups, 30 jumps onto my approximately 26" dresser, 15 explosive pushups, 8 squat jumps, 8 explosive pushups

21 minutes.

Really happy for the rest day. God bless all...

Stephen M/25/5'9"/135

Comment #15 - Posted by: Stephen at April 16, 2009 7:49 PM

#14 Greg/M2
I had only heard the dog Dasy was shot, but didn't know there was that full story behind it. I give Marcus so much credit, because I know for certain that if i had been in his shoes...that gun would have more likely than not gone off and taken care of those a$$holes. Can't imagine what he's going through in his head after all that...

Comment #16 - Posted by: Eric Gohl 22/5'10/162 at April 16, 2009 7:55 PM

The fact that you're jumping up onto your hotel room dresser is hysterical and admirable all in one. Haha, awesome job man :)

Comment #17 - Posted by: Eric Gohl 22/5'10/162 at April 16, 2009 7:57 PM

rest day woohoO!
got a killer mtb ride in winder, GA [fort yargo]. if anyone lives in the area and wants to ride/WOD, hit me up 7703162940

btw. absolutely 100% recommend marcus aurelius' meditations in the bibliography of stoicism article.

Comment #18 - Posted by: whatjamaican at April 16, 2009 7:59 PM

Sock feet, tried not to make too much noise, but I guess they didn't hear me downstairs, so I haven't gotten kicked out. Leaving tomorrow, so I can do Saturday's WOD at my 'globo' gym

Comment #19 - Posted by: Stephen M/25/5'9"/135 at April 16, 2009 8:03 PM

here is a little rest day workout ideas... feel free to practice, it won't hurt.


Comment #20 - Posted by: Matt Wichlinski at April 16, 2009 8:10 PM

I think running a marathon would be a good method of active rest tomorrow. I usually just do the typical mainsite wods ( metcons, stength/oly stuff, sometimes 5k/10k) but i think a marathon would be fun. do u need to train for those or should i be good based on doing crossfit for the past 2 and a half years?


Comment #21 - Posted by: will at April 16, 2009 8:18 PM

I hate to say this, but I needed this one. Im a freaking mess of muscle soreness. Jumping on you hotel dresser, freaking awesome!!!


Comment #22 - Posted by: Clayton at April 16, 2009 8:28 PM

Yeah, thank God for rest day, this cycle was extremely tough!

Comment #23 - Posted by: Willy T at April 16, 2009 8:31 PM

so glad its a rest day! my shoulders are toast after the last couple of days. going to hit up the CFE 30 min 85% RPE run tomorrow. i've been trying to do those on the rest days and will add a third day here at some point.

enjoy the rest everyone!

Comment #24 - Posted by: potster (25/M/6'4"/240) at April 16, 2009 8:33 PM

I just started crossfit, and I was doing the (scaled) workouts and wondering if they are always this hard. Just a few years ago i was pumping out college track workouts and olympic lifts, but those workouts don't even compare to some of these crossfit workouts. I love to train hard, and I miss the competition aspect of working out, so I'm so glad I found this site. I love reading the comments you guys write as well, it's great motivation. If there was an affiliate nearby I'd be in heaven, but other than that, I'm already hooked!

Comment #25 - Posted by: Keisha at April 16, 2009 8:37 PM

I read that article. I have often admired the stoics. I will use that information, thank you Coach. Paul

Comment #26 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 6'2" 201 45 yoa at April 16, 2009 8:38 PM

Home from the box and "Danny"
24"box jump (1st time!), started with banded pu's and switched to jumping after i cut myself with the band (yes, im THAT dorky!) #60 pp
2 2/3 rounds.
EXHAUSTING!!!! Every time i wanted to stop i thought of the officers and the l.e. that protects me every day at work. Much respect!

This cycle has left me wrecked - I have bruised "pillows" haha, torn up thumbs, bruised colar bone, some very nice deep scratches on my abs from the darn band, sore shoulders and arms and callouses that will go at any moment - but do i love it? Hells ya!

Hugs to the FRAT!!! pb&j - yes! would be great to meet up with you and the mrs :)

Comment #27 - Posted by: Cookie at April 16, 2009 8:48 PM

#16 Eric,

I hear ya brother, Marcus showed tremendous restraint. I admire him for it.

"He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit than he who takes a city."
(Prov 16:32)

Comment #28 - Posted by: Greg/M2 at April 16, 2009 8:56 PM

Long life the FRAT!!! Hit "Danny" just made a modification well Carlox did it 26" tire jumps was tough but hit it carefully don't want to mess my shoulder i hit 4 rounds and 30 jumps next time i'll hit it hard...rest in peace Danny

Big hugs to the FRAT you all each and everyone are amazing i have to meet you personally someday

Comment #29 - Posted by: s'more at April 16, 2009 9:00 PM

Stoicism - Read "Thoughts of a Philosophical Fighter Pilot" by Jim Stockdale. An (late)American hero and practicing Stoic...

Comment #30 - Posted by: MarcH at April 16, 2009 9:29 PM

s'more, someday = July 10-12 2009 :)

PB&J, I hope you're still growing that thing out when we meet. GO SHARKS!

Cookie, proud of you baby!

Eric, I agree about Marcus's situation with the dog. What a crying shame.

Comment #31 - Posted by: Herm at April 16, 2009 9:51 PM

A necessarily humble campaign to add Coach to the ranks of the Stoics?

I believe Marcus and Seneca might agree.

Dispassionately, of course.

Comment #32 - Posted by: Chas at April 16, 2009 10:15 PM

Hey all! I know I have been off the board for quite awhile now. I've had a full plate focusing on One World and our programming.

I wanted to let all you fellow affiliate owners know that I just dropped my 1k to support the Crossfit Risk Retention Group. I back this project up 100% and hope that all you other affiliate owners scrape up the cash to get the RRG going. The RRG will benefit all of us in the long run.

Train hard and hope to see as many of you as possible at the Crossfit Games!

Comment #33 - Posted by: freddy c._one world at April 16, 2009 10:44 PM

Playoff Beard,

So I'm 40 minutes late for an appointment today that if I'm successful on will make me roughly the same amount of my annual income for 1994. That could sound somewhat impressive until you realize 1994 was not a banner year for the jakers. Anyway I'm in a little of rush to get there. Scratch that I'm trying to travel back in time. At the intersection coming off the highway I see a truck in front of me and I'm going ballistic not b/c said truck won't get out of my way but b/c my cell phone camera won't work. My wife thinks I've lost it (a recurring thought on her part.)Phone finally works. And I get to take this glorious picture.
Just for you little buddy.



Comment #34 - Posted by: jakers at April 16, 2009 10:45 PM

in response to keisha - comment #25

I've been doin CF for just over a year now and i personally don't think the workouts get any easier. You'll get better, see progress, improve to where you no longer have to scale the wods. But they won't be easier. Might even get harder cause you'll push yourself more.

To quote Greg Glassman
"no, it doesn't ever get easier. You wouldn't want it to either."

Comment #35 - Posted by: rosita at April 16, 2009 11:12 PM

I just watched a little video by Tim Ferriss earlier today. Cool to see some more of his thoughts getting put to use in our community!


The video is titled "How to Feel Like The Incredible Hulk"

Comment #36 - Posted by: Justin at April 16, 2009 11:17 PM

Realized after second set of box jumps that I was doing 18" instead of 24"--dammit!

CFWU -pu's

1 round complete
+30 box jumps
+20 push presses
+13 pullups

Comment #37 - Posted by: Darren 37m/5'10"/225lbs at April 16, 2009 11:34 PM

"A necessarily humble campaign to add Coach to the ranks of the Stoics?

I believe Marcus and Seneca might agree.

Dispassionately, of course."

Agreed: Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, Coach - the triumvirate of great western philosophical minds.

Marcus Aurelius' 'meditations' is a perennial read for me. I think Coach could write something to rival it in terms of importance though.

Comment #38 - Posted by: GFH at April 17, 2009 12:46 AM

great article

Comment #39 - Posted by: JJ at April 17, 2009 3:32 AM

The only problem I have with the competition video is that it makes 1 wall ball = 1 95lb/65lb snatch. One team could have literally not done snatches and let the other team do the harder exercise while trading off on wall ball the entire time exclusively and had, in my opinion, an easier workout. Just my take on it, great concept, but poor execution.

Comment #40 - Posted by: Sean at April 17, 2009 4:22 AM

I know I cant get a response to everything I write, but I am a beginning Crossfitter trying to find my way and I have posted a few times asking questions and no one will answer them. For example when I post around #200 and there are 300 more AFTER me and none can help me it just frustrating. I love crossfit and will keep going regardless. Just a little help guys.


Comment #41 - Posted by: Bruce at April 17, 2009 5:11 AM

Bruce from #41.

You can email people directly if you have questions.......there are alot of people who just post here and scram. Don't lose patience man.

Have you joined an affiliate?

Comment #42 - Posted by: Sarge40 at April 17, 2009 5:20 AM

Will #21;

Yes. Of course. Make it a little harder, though. Run that marathon without water in bare feet wearing a vest.

Let us know how that works out. We'll all look for your time on Saturday's WOD after your "active rest", you know, since you've been doing this for 2 1/2 years and all.

Comment #43 - Posted by: bingo at April 17, 2009 5:25 AM

Bruce #41:

How about a couple of dates and post #'s so we can take a peek.

Comment #44 - Posted by: bingo at April 17, 2009 5:26 AM

Ryan sounds like a busy guy with good taste in literature.

Reading philosophy, and the stoics can be great for a person in a "self-help" sort of way. But I think it is the process of doing philosophy, of reading, thinking and speaking about it that provides the greatest payoff. The content of the particular philosophy being read is important, but the process is crucial.

I agree with Ryan that one element of a good philosophy is that it should be "built for action." But I disagree with his statement that a philosophy should be "instantly clear" and that you should not have to study it to understand it. This notion of philosophy seems to leave little room for the process of philosophizing in any sustained sense. Coming to understand a philosophy is not like coming to understand a recipe for banana muffins (which can be surprisingly tricky). Having said that, I think that philosophy should be the sort of thing that, if some level of study and effort is given over to it, would provide its student with something at least as valuable as a banana muffin.

One source of philosophical obscurity is that often philosophers are self-consciously attempting to say something new, and to do so, they try to recast the world, employ new terminology (in the 20thC professional philosophers spent much of their time saying old things in their own idiosyncratic jargon - my favorite philosophers (and management consultants) rely on jargon as little as possible or not at all.

Turning to the stoics at age 21 is a good move for someone hoping to develop a critical and sane sense of the world around him, and for developing a sense of what counts as "good philosophy". Perhaps the stoics will remain Ryan's favourite for decades. Perhaps other philosophers, speaking of different things in different ways will find their place on his reading shelf. Happy reading.

"Get rich, or philosophize trying" - Kanye Epictetus.

Comment #45 - Posted by: Prole at April 17, 2009 5:28 AM

#8 wollongong... look into ART (active release technique.. no, not that kind of "release") http://www.spineandsportrehab.net/active_release.html.
i go once a week, but know people who go 3x. makes a huge difference in recovery and with the typical injuries we all get and ignore. hope this helps

Comment #46 - Posted by: brian at April 17, 2009 5:35 AM

TGIF & TGI rest day. I am sore from my calves to my traps and since I don't workout on the weekends (yeah right, beach runs and yard work), I am feeling good. Can't wait for Monday.

That was a very insight article. I think I may have to read up on stoicism more.

Comment #47 - Posted by: Keith M at April 17, 2009 5:39 AM

I think I found a favorite new quote from the Practice Crossfit site.

“The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same.”

Whose quote is this?

Although I still like my old one.

"We are the people our parents warned us about"
Jimmmy Buffet

Comment #48 - Posted by: Jim D. 48 yom 165# at April 17, 2009 5:55 AM

Thank God. Haha. My shoulders and back are cooked. Lets go Caps!

Comment #49 - Posted by: korisu56 at April 17, 2009 6:06 AM

Comment #14
Great article! I would not have had that kind of restraint, would have split their wigs for sure....And regretted it later. Those douchers better hope Luttrell stays in the middle of nowhere.

and in other news.....
My 14 month daughter loves the holes in my hands, her little fingers are the perfect size to dig into them and make daddy scream. Not so fun for me. Can't wait till tommorrow!!
Keep fighting the good fight!

Comment #50 - Posted by: Jonblaze at April 17, 2009 6:11 AM

5 rounds for time:
5 Deadlifts w/ 240 lbs (all the weight I have- wanted to use 275)
10 burpees

Comment #51 - Posted by: Jim G-ville at April 17, 2009 6:26 AM

Bruce from #41.

If you click on the the message board link on the main page and post on there, you will get a better response. This is my first time posting on the comments thread, but I'm on the message board (along with a lot of others) all the time.

Comment #52 - Posted by: Jim L. at April 17, 2009 6:33 AM

Stoicism , "Crossfitters be nice", the Games movie featuring complaining about cheating...

Very subtle Coach, but I love your message...

Comment #53 - Posted by: Eric at April 17, 2009 6:49 AM

First scaled WOD (85 lbs P/P) after 2 years doing the exercises and lifts on my own, in my own way. I had to follow it with 3k of a HIT interval run, too.

Score: 3 (exactly)

Comment #54 - Posted by: Joel Kam at April 17, 2009 6:50 AM

Greg M., thank you for sharing the article. Such senseless action cast upon a defenseless animal is proof their lives lack any substance and character. Marcus Luttrell should be rewarded for his mercy.

Comment #55 - Posted by: James Humphrey, Jr. at April 17, 2009 7:05 AM

So glad to have a rest day my body is killing me.

As for the article and some of the posts, specifically #53, I love CF and all and think coach is smart... However I often get a flash backs to Monty Python's: "The Life of Brian" when people try to decode coach's posts....

"We should all follow the shoe!!!" (for those of you who don't get the reference... link below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uywIYQEHZLs (WFS)

Anyway this is by no means intended as an insult... just my sense of humor

Comment #56 - Posted by: thenine at April 17, 2009 7:15 AM

Hi Allbody! Well! My biopsy was bad, but hey, its over. I'm not that stressed about the results- they will be what they will be, it was the actual REMOVAL that was stressing me out. Yikes.

Playoff Beard- I was alone in the exam room, waiting, thinking about Joe, him saying something about being alone, sometimes in life you just have to go through some doors alone. :)

Cookie- I cannot WAIT to hug you. You are such a doll, I love you. Herm is a lucky, lucky man.

S'more- That day is gonna come, when we meet up! I plan on going to Cali & Manizales, Colombia this December to visit family, so I would love to drop in to see you & Carlox and your families. I've had so many colombians stay with me over the past 3 years- my house is like a youth hostel. The offer is extended to you as well...

Eric- lil bro, I miss you! I feel so disconnected from you. I lost your #, email it to me ASAP so we can do the flights for Aromas.

Cynithiaj- Hi sweetie. I SO enjoy your qoutes. I'm a bit of quote nut... my personal fave, I have this inscribed on a heart pendant that I wear almost everyday " Hope...and keep busy" Louisa May Alcott

Jakers- are you back up to speed post pneumonia? I know it takes a few weeks to get back into the groove from that.

JJ- havent seen you in a while. :)

Bruce- are you the dude that just got married in Hawaii? I responded to that LOL Sorry I have been a bit selfish lately, havent been able to email people like I used to

AmandaD- how are you doing?

Elaine- YOU are a RIOT. I can only imagine working out with you and Pedro LOL Please get on Facebook.

Comment #57 - Posted by: Strong Lil Pony! at April 17, 2009 7:17 AM

Crossfit news from dayton ohio newspaper.

WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE — The Air Force plans to work with Wright State University and the University of Dayton to determine whether a new physical fitness training regimen can help military personnel perform better.

The research agreement is between the 711th Human Performance Wing and the schools.

The proposed research will investigate the effects of CrossFit type training, a fitness method using minimal equipment; kettlebell training, a method used to train the Russian military; and a combination of kettlebell training and running, the Air Force said Wednesday, April 15.

The Air Force fitness test (running, sit-ups and push-ups) will be used to assess volunteer participants before and after the 12-week training course to determine any changes in fitness status. Participants also are to undergo physiological and functional tests.

Comment #58 - Posted by: ramon at April 17, 2009 7:35 AM

I like the Stoics, but you have to locate them within a much less liberal cultural tradition. They were not trying to save anyone. They were running an empire.

Now, manifestly it is better to be Emperor than a slave, but both existed within a difficult, violent world. Aurelius was also a soldier, a general.

It seems to me we are presented, in life, with two basic problems: pain, and what to do about it. No matter who you are, or what you have, you will have pain. No matter who you are, you still must structure your days by making decisions, and those decisions can be random or purposive, but they are forced on you.

I have thought extensively about this, and my solution is the conception of Goodness. After much hand wringing, and back-and-forthing, I have decided to self publish everything I have written to this point. None of it is quite good enough, but it is better, in my view, than most of the postrational crap being peddled to our young adults seeking direction in life, and failing to find any options outside of radical, radically stupid politics.

Here is my storefront: http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1469097

More is being added daily. The best place to start is the one that says "Start Here". All the explanatory, contextualizing essays are free. The "Notes" consist of many pages of musings and random thoughts. I say to people sometimes that I wear myself out. Reading through this, you may see why.

If anyone would like clarification on anything, email me.


Comment #59 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 17, 2009 7:35 AM

Man...! I'm so glad. However I did the hero wod "Danny" this morning at 0600. I wish I couldn've gave it more. 3rds as rx'd. But yea my body is quaking. Going to enjoy my Sabbath tomorrow.

Comment #60 - Posted by: SSgt B USMC Miramar at April 17, 2009 7:41 AM

Elaine and Pedro where about in Scotland are you?

Comment #61 - Posted by: CROSSFITFIFE at April 17, 2009 7:43 AM

REST!!! I just started crossfit two weeks ago and every muscle in my body has been savaged....I LOVE IT!

Comment #62 - Posted by: GJW at April 17, 2009 7:56 AM

“Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.”
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Saw this today and thought of Coach and Lauren.

Comment #63 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 074 203 45 yoa at April 17, 2009 8:09 AM

Jakers: LOL, that's awesome! You just made my morning, thanks :-)

Comment #64 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at April 17, 2009 8:12 AM

I have been doing crossfit since xmas now and i am totally hooked. It's the best training system i have ever put myself through. Just one question. Is there a reason that there is not a lot of bench pressing involved in any of the workout's. Not complaining at all, just curious. Any answers or suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers.

Comment #65 - Posted by: Ad Con at April 17, 2009 8:14 AM

in8girl- "to forget the mistake of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future" oooh, I was still angry at the stalker, and at myself for getting involved in such a bad situation. yeah that was a millstone around my neck that I didn’t know was there. I blessed it and let it go. THANK YOU.

FitMom- I will pick a Saturday soon and let you know. The bambina is excited for a road trip!

JeffBuxCty- You are such a CF NERD. And I love it! Eric & I know all about that.

JohnInJersey- how are you doing bro? Ever make it down to Montclair? And good for you for gettin' the bad guy the other day THANK YOU

JroCk- I am nervous about the 30th-31st, but since when has that ever stopped me from doing anything? Thank you for your email. And interestingly enough, dr. thinks I might be ALLERGIC to my albuterol! My last few WODs I have been using inhaler, normally I would only use it for somethinng like 5K and my breathing has been TERRIBLE. My last PFT was rotten, I did much worse AFTER the inhaler part. So I'm going to take a pulmonary stress test using a different med. Let you know. Dr also suggested doing a WOD without inhaler… interesting, eh?

Road trip this weekend... Not far, thinking about Peanut Butter and Co in Manhattan? Any ideas? Doesn't have to be far, or a greasy spoon, just food and FUN for me and the bambina.

AND I'm baking this weekend! Lattice top strawberry rhubarb pie! Who's coming over? LOL

Comment #66 - Posted by: Strong Lil Pony! at April 17, 2009 8:24 AM


What we have here is yet another blog more concerned with self than others. The problem I have here is that intellectualizing is considering highest, where it should be LOVE. Love is a choice and stoics seem to be choosing to enlighten and protect oneself above all else, then help others, instead of loving others above all else forsaking self.

Comment #67 - Posted by: Aush at April 17, 2009 8:34 AM

As I thought of this more, it reminded me of elements from Neruo Linguistic Programming (NLP). One element of that discipline is learning to control what emotional response one has to experience. It is as if the Stoics were practicing to NOT have an emotional response. They NLPing themselves to avoid a powerful emotional response which might cloud their judgement, corrupt their long term goals. Thus the need to continued practice - iow, success with this technique comes with 'conditioning' oneself to respond to experience in a desired way. Conditioning meaning the benefits of the practice come when the practice is sustained, but decrease, like fitness does, when the practice is not sustained. Perhaps that is why I never gained any particular benefit from a long ago study of Stocism - it only starts with understanding, what gives it potency is practice. Paul

Comment #68 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 074 203 45 yoa at April 17, 2009 8:53 AM

Been rather depressed about the slow healing of my foot, torn plantar facia, where it connects to the heel. It's been five months and now I read it might take a year! Ugh!

Consequently I only did one WOD this week. I seem to get mentally messed up when I have to do so many substitutions to only approximate a WOD, but with my heel I am limited to what I can do.

This morning it was feeling okay, then I left the house to catch the bus. Half way down the block I remembered I forgot to turn the crockpot on. I raced back to the house, thinking all the time, "not a smart thing to do on the foot". That's what set me off the last bad bout. Went in, turned on the crockpot, checked my watch and saw I still had five minutes before the bus was to come, so got to WALK to the bus stop.

Feels a bit tight right now, but don't think I did too much back setting damage. And Carne Adovado is for dinner!

Comment #69 - Posted by: SueAnne/F/48/5'6"/130 at April 17, 2009 9:24 AM

Comment #6 - Posted by: AllisonNYC

That's awesome ally, congrats!

Comment #70 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 074 203 45 yoa at April 17, 2009 9:29 AM

Loved the interview on CFR. Couldn't agree more that CrossFit is not about the physical. It's about the mental strength and dedication deep down in your soul. Anyone that has pushed through a WOD like Fran or Helen, and given it everything they have, knows what we're talking about. And even more than that, when you hit that same WOD next time and shave time off and surprise yourself and everyone else, that makes you stronger in a much more profound way than physically building muscle.
Good stuff man.
I'm glad to hear your family is well.

Comment #71 - Posted by: Reno_Ty at April 17, 2009 10:08 AM

I thought I found a good deal when I found gymnastics for $80. I was wrong, http://www.muscledriverusa.com/gyrip.html.

Comment #72 - Posted by: PatS at April 17, 2009 10:11 AM

I thought I found a good deal when I found gymnastics rings for $80. I was wrong, http://www.muscledriverusa.com/gyrip.html. This company has kettlebells, bumper plates and climbing ropes, too, but I don't know how the prices compare to other sites.

Comment #73 - Posted by: PatS at April 17, 2009 10:16 AM

Did DT today instead of Tuesday

Scaled to 115# - Grip was hard on the HPC's

I did one round with 135#, but still too heavy for me. First day of doing any heavy oly lifting. Sciatica did not act up.

Comment #74 - Posted by: Corey Bibolet 39/M/160\1/5'8" at April 17, 2009 10:37 AM

Thank you for the day off. My hands are trashed from yesterday.

Comment #75 - Posted by: steve at April 17, 2009 10:47 AM

Yesterday there was a post by a member gloating about his use of Sustanon and Winstrol, completing 11 rounds of "Danny" for time. While his boasting was probably fueled by the current 'roid high he's riding it made me wonder. Is there a subculture of Crossfitters that endorses or worse yet encourages the use of performance enhancers? And if so, is there anything being done to stop this egregious breach in athletic integrity?

I started crossfit because it was dewussified fitness. It got me away from the gym's with all the juice heads staring in the mirror as they did bicep curls and admiring their waxed arms and fake tans. I'd like to know if there are others that feel similarly.

Comment #76 - Posted by: Chris Skeehan at April 17, 2009 10:50 AM


Could someone give me some advice on how I can increase my pullups. I can do the muscle ups as good or better than I can do pullups, which makes no sense to me. I was doing my pullups on my rings because I did not have my power rack w/ a pullup bar in my basement gym yet. I thought I would do better when I got the straight bar, however, I was sadly wrong. I was doing sixteen pretty strict dead hangs on the rings. Today (I do crossfit a day behind) I could only do 12 deadhangs on my normal pullup bar. My question is should I start doing more pullups more often (or will I be over trained).

I was in the Marine Corp many years ago and have always struggled w/ pullups. I could always get my 20 pullups on my PFT, but that was about it. I don't consider myself to be weak upper body wise. I have benched in a power contest 375 lbs and a few lbs more unofficially. I don't say that to brag, just that I can't understand it. I am 200 lbs and that is what I have weighed since high school (+- 5 or 10). Anyway, sorry for the run on, if anyone can help I am all ears.

Comment #77 - Posted by: jeffdpoll at April 17, 2009 10:50 AM

#76 Chris, I saw that too but I think it was a joke post.

Usually the AMRAP WOD's are short & sweet bursts (think Cindy) where the top performers are doing a full round every minute or two.

As distasteful as it was, I think his absurd claim of 11+ rounds was a satirical commentary on a WOD where the all-stars might get 4 rounds and the rest of us were in the 2+ range...

Comment #78 - Posted by: Benny1 at April 17, 2009 10:58 AM

“Because your own strength is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man; but if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass also.” Marcus Aurelius

Comment #79 - Posted by: jp8173 at April 17, 2009 11:08 AM

Bruce #41 - you can also try the message boards. You can get pretty specific there whereas on the comment board you are competing with people's wod updates, miscelaneous B.S., etc.

Comment #80 - Posted by: Travis from Reno at April 17, 2009 11:13 AM

rest day

ladder climb
8 times
HR 148 avg.

Comment #81 - Posted by: surffire at April 17, 2009 11:41 AM

No time to MetCon today.

Warm up
Row + Deadlifts

235 x 5
285 x 5
335 x 5
385 x 1
400 x 5 (pr)

Comment #82 - Posted by: Jeff at April 17, 2009 12:03 PM

Comment #77 jeffdpoll,

I know that at least with me, the different grips affect the number of pullups I am able to do. Since on rings your grip generally moves to the most effective way to pull throughout each pullup, you can do more on the rings than on a static bar. (Kipping, I think, would be different than with deadhang. Controlling the kip on swaying rings would be harder than on a static bar.)

As is often suggested on the site, if you want to get better at something just do more. Pullups are part of the CFWU. You might want to start out there. And if you don't have a kipping pullup, work on those.

Comment #83 - Posted by: SueAnne/F/48/5'6"/130 at April 17, 2009 1:24 PM

#14 greg

Thanks for posting the link. That infuriates me that a couple punks have the audacity to kill an innocent dog like that, and it rips my heart out knowing what it meant to him. I'm glad that Marcus kept his cool dispite what they did, even though in a way I wanted to read otherwise, since it woulda served those lowlifes right.

After all that man has been through, I pray for him to eperience some much deserved peace of mind.

Comment #84 - Posted by: John23/5'7/170# at April 17, 2009 1:32 PM


I think steroids are the exact opposite of everything crossfit stands for. They are for people at globos who want to be built like freakin cartoon characters. They think they take pride in their bodies but really they are cheating because I'm pretty sure you could eat McDonald's and drink Gatorade all day and still put on lean mass.

I dunno, what ever floats their boat. 11 rounds of Danny is absurd, I would hope they are testing at the games so people who do it right aren't penalized.

Comment #85 - Posted by: Mike L Panther CrossFit at April 17, 2009 1:36 PM


In regards to pull-ups, I really wouldn't worry too much about your one time performance of 12 deadhangs from a stable bar. With ring pull-ups your hands can move and adapt to the most natural position and points of strength through the pull, making them a tad bit easier than bar pull-ups. Just doing more bar pull-ups as opposed to ring pull-ups will help in general, and get you back towards 16 without changing anything.

As for the long-term, some people are different and need different things. Personally, I was always around 18 dh pull-ups for all my pfts and such, but I wanted to get around 25 for my selections course, so I went with consistency over doing them only once or twice per week. With a pull-up bar in my apartment and near work, I did sets of 5 deadhangs constantly throughout the day, averaging about 100 per day, 3 days a week, and did 2 workouts with high intensity that involved pullups. Plus, I added in some weighted pull-ups which helped out a ton, and got me to my goal. I know Crossfit isn't too big on volume, but I've found it works a lot of times, although I wouldn't try to sustain it over the long-haul. I would suggest build up your numbers through consistency for 4 or 5 weeks, and maintain it with intensity so you don't burn yourself out. Worked very well for me, although I'm sure some people would disagree. As far as overtraining, if you're body is feeling sore from pullups, take a day off or just do a few with very good form.

Comment #86 - Posted by: zo 26/m/190/5'10 at April 17, 2009 1:42 PM

Allison- how fun! Have a great weekend and enjoy the company!
Sue Anne- hope your foot heals fast! That is no fun!
Strong Lil Pony- Glad it helped! The past is not important like that. And good news that the biopsy is over! Yay!

And I have not been to NYC (even though I grew up in NY state) and do not know what the the Peanut Butter and Co is there, but I can only guess and it sounds yummy. And so does the Rhubarb pie for that matter. I am on a craving for something really yummy. Count me in!

My cheat days do not involve real crazy cheat food (mostly just some regular coffee or the like, and since vacation I have been “cheating” on a lot, ha ha ha) but I have had a craving for this ice cream at a place called Donnelly’s (dairy farm) near where I grew up. (If I told my mom, she’d prob fly me up to have some the day they open for the summer!) It is “churned” as they make your cone and the machine (is very old) and always sounds like it is going do break down when making your cone. Anyhow it is sooo creamy. I am craving a choc/ vanilla twist. It’s been about hmmm…16 yrs since I ate it so I guess I am about due. Now that I think I will have one, too bad I have to wait until July when I go home! Ha ha ha And if I was really going to make it a cheat day, a homemade burger too. Not those fast food non-food ones, but a real juicy burger from the grill with lettuce, couple slices of tomato and onion, mmmmm… (can you tell I am hungry for one? ;)

I am a good sore today and actually enjoying the rest day. Tomorrow maybe some running outside. Weather terrific and some kind of outdoor fitness, kayak, etc event at the dam near my house.

Comment #87 - Posted by: In8Girl at April 17, 2009 1:45 PM

10 rounds of 10 reps

135# Deadlift


Comment #88 - Posted by: Blanco at April 17, 2009 2:20 PM

10 rounds of 10 reps:

135# Deadlift


Comment #89 - Posted by: Blanco at April 17, 2009 2:20 PM

Aush- Ditto

Comment #90 - Posted by: Lost Boy at April 17, 2009 2:45 PM

Thanks for all the responce! The post I really wanted advice on was Danny thread. Im number 200. Thanks again, I knew I could count on hte community!!

Comment #91 - Posted by: Bruce at April 17, 2009 3:42 PM

Wow, must have been an intense week. 2 new heros, 3 super tough WOD's, and less than 100 comments, 20 hours into the post. What is this, 2006?

TGIF / TGIRD (unashamedly stolen from above). Ben

Comment #92 - Posted by: Benny1 M/40/74"/220 at April 17, 2009 4:12 PM


Hope all is well, certainly in my thoughts and prayers. No I haven't gotten to Montclair yet but, Tomorrow is actually a possibility. If I go I'll text you. It's been a long stretch, WODS were all killer and work has been stressful accompanied by long hours, not complaining, I love it. Anyway be well.

Danny - 3 Rounds + 30 Box jumps.

Comment #93 - Posted by: John-In-Jersey at April 17, 2009 4:57 PM


Judging by your numbers ystd on "Danny" you would be best served by moving through the Brand X progressions. Coach uses the metaphor of a long, slightly sloped on-ramp; it fits for you.

Welcome aboard. Fasten your seatbelt.

Comment #94 - Posted by: bingo at April 17, 2009 5:07 PM

Interesting Rest Day link. I'd agree with Apolloswabbie #68. I've never studied philosophy, but from my very limited understanding (and sorry if this is way off, I mean well), being stoical about something usually means dis-engaging your initial emotional response and using logic and self-control to almost synthesise a different feeling, hopefully to your own advantage. Yes, it can be very empowering - for example, if someone tries to scream and shout at you on a street, you can dispassionately decide that you simply won't let this bother you - and that can feel very good. But I've met people who are such stoics that you want to shake them up and get them to re-engage with life. There's an air of dreaminess / unreality about their reaction to obvious wrongness, unfairness and misery. It's like the "religion is the opium of the people" quote from Marx. Stoicism can be an opiate for some people too, I think.

Barry Cooper #59 - congrats on the online store. Out of interest, have you taken your posts from the Crossfit Comments pages over the last few years and included them in your on-line published material? If so, have you included comments from other Crossfitters? If so, do any of my comments feature? If so, what do you propose regarding "sharing of revenues".


Comment #95 - Posted by: J1 at April 17, 2009 5:13 PM


I echo Bingo's comment, but take each one on a case-by-case basis. The excitement intensifies 10-fold when you start repeating WODs. :)

Comment #96 - Posted by: Herm at April 17, 2009 5:15 PM

That was all I needed. I have the intensity, its just that sometimes my muscles dont match my fortitude.

Ill do the case by case for the WOD's but I foresee most WODs that have pull ups im gonna have to goto Brand X.

Im gonna destroy this on ramp!!

Thanks Again

Comment #97 - Posted by: Bruce at April 17, 2009 6:16 PM


Easy 45 minute run for 5.2 miles

Comment #98 - Posted by: doubleTLE at April 17, 2009 6:30 PM


hit a wod today b/c ive missed the last couple due to injury. i elected to try one of the qualifier wods from the games website.

6 rds for time of:
30 squats
10 CTB pullups
5 155 PC&J


i've been battling a couple injuries lately and it showed today. i was gassed after the first round. i was glad that i pushed through though. my lower back was burning so bad by round three that i had to break even the air squats into small sets. loved the wod though. good luck to those in the qualifier that have to do this, its delightfully painful!

Comment #99 - Posted by: jake howard at April 17, 2009 6:41 PM

Sorry, but I had to make it an even 100 comments. I don't know why, don't ask.

Comment #100 - Posted by: Playoff Beard a.k.a. PB&J at April 17, 2009 7:38 PM

Made up Danny today and very sad to say I did not do him justice. That wod took everything out of me! 24" box, 75# push presses, kipping pullups: 3 complete rounds with only a few secs to spare. Pullups are usually a strength of mine but not today- very very broken! Glad I got the night off from work- gonna sleep good:)

Comment #101 - Posted by: Raine at April 17, 2009 7:40 PM

The 100 comment mark simply had to be reached.

Took me two tries to get it...damn you filter!

Comment #102 - Posted by: Playoff Beard a.k.a. PB&J at April 17, 2009 7:40 PM

Oh my, I love that pic... Speaks alot..

Comment #103 - Posted by: Fitness Fabulous at April 17, 2009 7:43 PM

Every rest day - I sit here waiting anxiously for the next day's WOD.

Thank you Coach!

Comment #104 - Posted by: steve_t_m_45_5'8"_150# at April 17, 2009 7:56 PM


I am a massage therapist and highly recommend receiving massage after these workouts. A typical swedish style or sports style massage should do teh trick. Try to receive at least one every 4-6 weeks if possible. You will notice a tremendous difference in your recovery time.
On another note, it felt good to have a day off!!

Comment #105 - Posted by: Kevin Roys at April 17, 2009 9:33 PM

Response to #83 and #86:

First thanks. I agree w/ both of you and to zo #86. I tend to agree and that is what I had in mind, but I tend to get overtrained fairly easily and didn't want to over do it. However, when I learned to do muscle-ups another person on here sent me a training schedule that I followed on top of crossfit and w/in a couple weeks I was doing them. I was a little overtrained, but I took a 6 day break (I think it was 6 or 7) afterwards. That is what I will probably do in this case.

The reason for my post wasn't to be able to do more pullups for 1 round, it was for a better sustained ability to do pullups round after round. The days we do pullups are killing my times, because I just can't keep going. So if I could do more it equates all across the board for my workouts.

Again, thanks and I think you guys are right. Semper Fi

Comment #106 - Posted by: jeffdpoll at April 18, 2009 11:47 AM

God, grant me the stoicism to accept the things I cannot change; the intensity to change the things I must, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Comment #107 - Posted by: Jeff Glassman at April 18, 2009 3:48 PM

Used rest day to get some help with muscle-ups
1st one (3) today..woohoo!

Comment #108 - Posted by: waderpro at April 18, 2009 6:24 PM

J1: no posts from you. If there were, though, I doubt the revenue, shared between us, would buy a Coke. I have spent an enormous amount of time on these ideas, and they are good ideas. The idea that I might get run over by a bus and everything be lost bothers me. Therefore I decided to put it all out in the public sphere. There is still a lot I haven't even done a rough edit on.

Here is one sample, though, from Notes 17:

[Note, Sukhaduhkasamo means in Sanskrit that pain and pleasure are the same. The phrase is used often, if memory serves, in the Bhagavad Gita. The intent is to convey the mental and moral qualities of the perfected man).

Sukhadukhasamo amounts to a complete rejection of the possibility of self pity in the sense that there is a task out there that I should do, that I really don’t want to do, you’ve got that aversion and resistance. Then at some point what I have is a structural weakness that at some point will cause me trouble. If there’s anything in the world that you’re afraid to do or unwilling to do, that causes you pain or fear or difficulty, then you are unfree, you are bound.

What the Buddha did was create through tapas [asceticism] a state of mind in which there really wasn’t any physical thing that could happen to him that he feared or had to avoid. It just didn’t matter. Once he reached that point, he no longer needed the extreme asceticism, and began preaching the Middle Way.

Once you have this mindset, you stop. It becomes a latent capacity—a part of your informational field—but not something you need to dwell on every day. People who have surmounted difficulties don’t need to surmount them every day to believe they are capable of doing so. One difficult, challenging experience, if approached with the proper mindset—which consists mainly in receptiveness to the creation of new form--is sufficient to lock you in to the Path of sukhadukhsamo, which is a prerequisite of genuine happiness, which allows you to reject the petty worries and anxieties of pedestrian life.

This is one function of a Rite of Passage, which has much more pain than you would ever expect to encounter in life. But you have gone through it, and you know you have gone through it, so anything short of that is something you know you can handle. That pain is actually something which thereby releases the possibility of happiness.

Comment #109 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 19, 2009 10:28 AM

Actually, here's the next couple of paragraphs. I don't think I ever posted this anywhere. I only post maybe 25% of what I write, I think, although I don't think about it much. Obviously, I'm trying to center here on the topic of the day. The Stoics had a lot of good ideas. In my own use of the term, it was a sacral system, which is a good thing.

"People that punish themselves too much, implicitly, are avoiding another pain. You can be on a line of hedonism, and only want to do what’s easy. But there is another line of only wanting to do what’s hard and difficult. You have to release both of those. If you only do hard things, that is, paradoxically, a form of self pity or pain avoidance too. You are avoiding the pain of recreation, of reconciliation. It is a form of hiding. You can hide almost anywhere. All compulsivities are forms of hiding. If you can avoid hiding, you will grow in wisdom and goodness for the entirety of your life. It’s not a question of moving forward, but avoiding stasis. Life itself gives us what we need to grow, if we can only see it.

Very people are able to avoid hiding. Non-action—non attachment—is understood by very few people. This is true even of outwardly moral, and apparently highly developed people. If you are attached to a notion of holiness, you are compulsive. If you think you are better than someone else, you might be compulsive (done in Jeff Foxworthy voice). When Lao Tzu says to renounce sainthood, this is what he means. He wants you even to give up the process of giving up. Renounce the renunciation of sainthood. It’s ultimately an effort to develop stability in acture, in a preverbal, preintellectual form and order that is mutable as needed."

Comment #110 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 19, 2009 10:33 AM

Barry, comment #110 is quality stuff. We disagree about a lot, but you've some diamonds in the rough there, for sure. Get prospecting, man.

So I'm listening to some tunes on Youtube and find some good stuff, and I like to read the comments sometimes. And one of the comments, I think, could have been made by you. The guy typed:

"The culmination of humanity peaked at this particular moment and has been downhill ever since."

Sort of reminded me of the nostalgia that I sometimes think comes across in your posts - that's not meant to be critical at all. Anyway, the tune is great so here's a link:


Comment #111 - Posted by: J1 at April 19, 2009 1:36 PM

Nostalgia is not a bad word. Except that I know the past never existed. Our task is to create in the future what we "remember" from the past. This is possible. Return is not: the gates are closed.

We would likely get along. I am abundantly cranky on the internet, and sometimes in person, but mostly I am very tolerant and easy to get along with.

Still, this is still the internet, and I wanted to address Prole's point above. In my view, much or all of the philosophy that has been done in the last fifty years--certainly the popular stuff--has to be understood first and foremost aesthetically, and only secondarily intellectually.

As I continue to do a quick edit of my notes, I can across this: "A good definition of Post modernist is “anti-rationalist intellectual”. It is not a position but an aesthetic stance, one of the romantic revolutionary.

I really do think the modern Academy is Romantic in the worst possible sense, of privileging what feels right, over rational, defensible efforts to actually develop coherent moral narratives, implement them, and then compare results to intentions.

I do think what we had in the 50's was better than what we have today, but we also had segregation and sundry other social ills. The task is to balance social coherence, with social diversity. The particle and the wave, in one of my formulations. We are seeking a rolling chaos, an accommodation of the sea with the shore.

This is a valid goal. Regrettably, the current crop of multiculturalists are conspicuous both for their lack of good ideas, and profound, illiberal, intolerance.

Comment #112 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 19, 2009 2:42 PM

Here's another one:

"Thinking of process of mourning, and it seems to me mourning is a movement of return. Your world is torn, then mended to the extent possible. Mending implies a fabric of an overarching sacred, which—having been whole—can approximate a whole again. It seems to me that pari passu with the destruction of the sacred we are losing the ability to mourn. We express it through nonsense, random rage, and hysteria of the sort seen in Brian Eno or punk rock, or contemporary metal. It is not just transgressive musically, but a visible attack on the possibility of common sense, shared understandings themselves.

Constant non sequiturs are unsatisfying, and frustrating. The role leftist politics play for people living this sort of life is that of ersatz religion. It becomes a means by which salvation can be achieved. The government, then becomes the God, and the task to find problems for which an entity which can bind them can plausibly be claimed to be the solution. Certainly, global warming fits this criteria admirably."

With respect to the topic of the day, I will add this concept of mourning is interesting to me. A Stoic will not mourn, since such foolishness merely indicates an inability to grasp the essence of life, which is pain and death.

And yet, one senses that they were not Vulcans, and that their expressed ideas served as braces for their all too real human sufferings. From this perspective, I would argue they presented themselves in their philosophy with prophylactic targets--emotional and cognitive maps--by means of which to regain their tranquility, and surmount their pains.

The goal is never to become a robot. Anyone who has watched Captain Kirk give one of his rousing speeches knows this. It is to become more aware, and thus more receptive to both the pain AND the beauty in the universe. There is an aesthetic to asceticism, too, isn't there?

Comment #113 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 19, 2009 2:53 PM

Here's another good Stoic quote: "never say of anything that you lost it; merely that you gave it back." I think that's from Zeno, but I didn't note it.

Comment #114 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 19, 2009 3:01 PM

Here's another one from me: Pain is not cumulative, but transformative. You will be moved and changed. Your task is to affect the direction.

Comment #115 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 19, 2009 3:06 PM


"What we have here is yet another blog more concerned with self than others. The problem I have here is that intellectualizing is considering highest, where it should be LOVE. Love is a choice and stoics seem to be choosing to enlighten and protect oneself above all else, then help others, instead of loving others above all else forsaking self."

I've never really understood the either/or dillema, in which one has to choose between loving someone and taking care of self at the same time. There is plenty of room for someone to love within the Stoic mindset, and perhaps you are looking at it from today's perspective (which portrays Stoicism more as the outward appearance of not showing pain and suffering). I think there is a lot of simplification in today's meaning of Stoicism, for it goes much further, involving deep intraspection to combat destructive emotions.

I would argue that the traditional Stoic viewpoint does much more to combat injustice and suffering than vague calls for "unconditional love." As far as the call for everyone to "foresake self", I really see no applicability, or even rationality in this.

Just out of curiosity, where do you see the line being drawn between religion and rationality. For example, I saw you arguing in religion's defense earlier, with the understanding that while there might be some irrationality it, at least they were doing something productive in building a moral base (please correct me if wrong).

Comment #116 - Posted by: zo 26/m/190/5'10 at April 19, 2009 6:07 PM

My defense of religion, in my view, is an extension of my defense of liberty. Over and above my belief that attacks on religion are an intrinsic effort of the Left to alienate people from meaning systems external to the State, my view is that the freedom of conscience and religious practice is very clearly guaranteed in the Constitution.

I am unable, for example, to see how the Federal Government demanding a monument to the Ten Commandments in a State Building be removed is not a prima facie prohibition of the free exercise of religion. Virtually everyone in Alabama wanted it there. It was not coercing anybody into anything (denying their civil rights) and the decision was made autocratically by an entity unaccountable to the will of the people, except in the most indirect manner possible, and not accountable to Alabama itself at all.

I think of that old comment on how "when they came for the Jews, I wasn't a Jew, so I said nothing", etc. We need to stand together against any and all curtailments of freedom with respect to any of us. I have stood with atheists against aggressively proselytizing Christians. They have the right to their beliefs, too.

But nobody has the right to demand that their views are the only ones that matter, and the simple fact of the matter is that litigious atheists have done far more to eliminate liberties than people who bring their faith to Capital Hill.

With respect to rationality versus religion, the former is a tool, the latter is a faith. The former, of course, can be used to explicate and clarify the latter. It is a means, where religion is an end.

I don't fetishize Reason, per se, because that sort of compulsiveness has and does often lead to abuses of Reason, in my view. It is a process, which is only as good as the people doing it.

If you read my paper titled "Start here", I clarify this somewhat with my conception of what I call the Telearchic Cross. It's a good heuristic, but as I note, you must also have the capacity to manage pain in order to "operate" it correctly. All perception depends, to a great extent, on emotional factors.

It occurred to me, in that regard, that it would be interesting to do a summary of Western philosophy starting from the supposition that the output of all our philosophers amounted to the rationalization of character flaws. Particularly in the 20th Century, that would be an interesting project.

In any event, I think this is the link: http://www.lulu.com/content/e-book/start-here-best-current-summation-of-my-work-on-recovering-the-concept-of-goodness-in-a-postmodern-postmoral-world/6800569

Comment #117 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 20, 2009 10:02 AM

Comment #67 - Posted by: Aush at April 17, 2009 8:34 AM

The funny thing I've noticed about my life is that no matter where I go and what I'm doing, I'm always me. As much as I've loved others in my life (and it's been quite a lot), I see no way to divorce myself, and therefore no reason to act as if I'm a secondary consideration in my own thoughts.

Comment #118 - Posted by: Goat 33/M/186/6' at April 20, 2009 6:17 PM

Good writing, I printed out the 10 page essay and will try to go more in depth with some of the ideas when I get the chance. After a quick skim, I picked up on the quote

"Thus the crowning point of the whole structure is a point I posit that it is useful to believe exists in which the time/movement dimension is eradicated, and the space/form dimension is eradicated in a place of infinite quality/information."

I found a lot of parallels in Ralph Waldo Emerson's "Oversoul", in which he touches on some similar concepts with regards to the "soul" (used in a less transcendent manner).

"The soul circumscribes all things. As I have said, it contradicts all experience. In like manner it abolishes time and space. The influence of the senses has, in most men, overpowered the mind to that degree, that the walls of time and space have come to look real and insurmountable and to speak with levity of these limits is, in the world, the sign of insanity. Yet time and space are but inverse measures of the force of the soul."

Any transcendental inspirations in this writing? I have been spending a lot of time lately trying to figure out how to adaquately understand and apply the numerous philosophies that seem to both run together yet contradict each other at the same time, and meld them into one coherent foundation. This will be a work in progress, but my new staff job is so utterly boring to me that I will make time to sit down and read during the day.

I'm particularly adament about the separation of church and state due to seeing the despicable theocracies in the middle east. Allowing husbands to rape their wives, young men sentenced to death for "heretical" writings, and even the banning of dog walking in Saudi, because dogs were being used as pick-up lines, are just a few of the results of having the Imams or Mullahs or whoever else set up a social structure. I will not be timid in saying that I truly despise the middle east, and have absolutely no respect for the culture. I fear for what would happen if someone like Pat Robertson or James Dobson should one day determine how I should live my life. While I agree with your argument on a constitutional and judicial level (in regards to Alabama), I think there are many cases for the separation of Church and state that the atheist should, and must fight for. I'll have to go back and look as I had some more I was thinking of earlier, but the thirty or so churches (led by Robertson?) which used its tax exempt status to actively campaign for the Republican party, and actually challenged the government to do anything about it would be one of them. Or perhaps the AF Academy's mandatory briefing (under the ploy that it would be about the War of Terror) in which they were forced to listen to three former terrorists say they turned their life around because of Jesus Christ, and a devolution into how Christianity can win the war. There are tons of cases out there, and while I see your point in regards to liberty, there are two sides to every story.

Comment #119 - Posted by: zo 27/m/185/5'10 at April 20, 2009 7:41 PM

Good article for rest day!

Comment #120 - Posted by: sishen at April 21, 2009 10:49 AM


Clearly there's a mutable line there that would respond well to sincere debate. However, I will say that it seems to me that for Leftists their politics double as their religion, and so there is no functional difference between saying Jesus Christ changed your life, and Noam Chomsky changed your life. Both are meaning systems, and both are protected under the Constitution.

Where tolerance for public discourse ends is when it becomes coercive, particularly with respect to behavior.

With regard to this, consider that in the Middle Ages, and up to about 1600 or so in England, likely later in other countries, you had at least two court systems. There were actually several State systems in England, but in addition to this were Ecclesiastical Courts, in which moral "crimes' such as infidelity or drunkenness were tried AND PUNISHED. You have, of course, something like that in Saudi Arabia today.

This, to me, is what our Founders intended to ban. For me, differentiating between an atheistic belief system vying for control and a theistic belief system is intrinsically speculative and subjective. Morphologically, Environmentalism appears to me to have all the qualities of a religious faith, except that God is Gaia.

The defining question, to me, is: is anyone being COERCED into anything? In Saudi Arabia, religious police can quit literally enter your bedroom without a warrant if they claim (after the fact) that they believed you were doing something immoral like cheat on your wives, or drinking alcohol. This is similar to how things looked in Western Europe in the Middle Ages. We did this too. We just stopped doing it a long time ago.

I remember when I was a kid that they were still busting bathhouses where "sodomy" was being committed, and arresting people they caught in the "act". I don't agree with this. This is coercive.

But so, to me, is demanding that Christians accept the gay lifestyle as morally acceptable. Gays should be allowed to do what they do, and Christians should be allowed to bitch about it. That's what makes a liberal democracy so fun.

Ultimately, an indirect and desirable result of our system is--or should be--practical tolerance. Not accepting the Left's rejection of all moral values, but rather accepting, in the concrete and specific, the differences with which one is confronted.

Liberalism, to me, should be about the negotiation of differences. To this I would oppose Leftism as the effort to eradicate differences. The first is much more fun.

I have formally and finally decided to call myself a liberal, because I am. So-called Liberals are not, and so we should try to separate them from the word by explaining with the patience and small words one uses with a child, what the history and meaning of this word are, and why they don't qualify.

Egalitarians, Socialists, Leftists: those words are all fine, and I don't want them.

Comment #121 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at April 22, 2009 12:56 PM

I'm sure nobody is reading anymore, but I figure I would just write for a few minutes before I call it a day and start this weekend in quite beautiful weather.

No disagreement with you in core beliefs. I am driven more towards the Transcendental, Randian self-reliance rather than trying to fix society as a whole, so I will admit that I have a tendency to just disappear and let others sort out their messes. When needed, I do my best to help and support those around me, but I really am at a loss as to figure out how to fix the problems of the world. However, the past few years have pushed me out of my comfort zone, so I have decided that I need to get engaged and figure out what I truly stand for.

In my earlier post, I should not have alluded to the fact that "Separation of Church and State" battles should be fought primarily upon on an athiest/Christian spectrum, as that makes it quite narrow on both sides. To your point, "differentiating between an atheistic belief system vying for control and a theistic belief system is intrinsically speculative and subjective," I agree one hundred percent. I think both are intrinsically speculative and subjective as well, and it would be virtually impossible to find a balance in which we could institute religion, or offical denial thereof in government without violating a covenant.

However, I would argue that there is a clear distinction between an atheistic system and that of a secular system. I believe Jeff Glassman said it earlier, but a secular system makes no judgement either way in regards to whether there is a god, or what methods one should take to know it (ie, Christian, Muslim, Hindu). If we hold that the religious have the freedom to practice their religion and everyone else has the freedom from religion (on a public realm), I see no solution other than a governmental system that takes no stand on the matter. A secular system simply deals with what it has to; if it has to fix a highway, it fixes the highway without making a determination one way or the other in the question of god, because that is not the realm of government. Plus, I wouldn't think it is in anyone's best interest to have the government determine how one should practice their religion.

If we are to create the smallest, yet most effective possible system of government while still providing for our inherent freedoms and human rights, determining the path to salvation should not be on the government "to-do" list.

As to the Alabama case you mention, I agree with you that the way it was implemented was wrong. Like you said, the vast majority of people probably wanted the Ten-Commandments statue in there. However, where is the line drawn? Why is the government sending the message that it intends to enforce all applicable rules of the Sabbath, or ensure we do not build idols? Would a non-Christian, who did not swear on the bible get treated the same as one who did? For the few outsiders in Alabama, are their fundamental rights as a non-Christian being taken care of? Perhaps so, perhaps not, but my year in south/central Mississippi showed me quite a bit of ignorance. I never had any legal trouble there, but if I did, I would feel about as comfortable in front a judge there as I would in Saudi.

Comment #122 - Posted by: zo 26/m/190/5'10 at April 24, 2009 1:40 PM

Hello. And Bye.

Comment #123 - Posted by: XRumerTest at November 9, 2012 8:00 AM
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