Oreo McFlurry is on order for Saturday...mmm...

Day 21 post op, 3 weeks down!

Bodyweight upon waking up: 193#. Sore glutes from all of those lunges yesterday! Abs have a hint of DOMS from the GHD sit-ups. The right shoulder is finally feeling healed up from last weekend's pressing madness. Left one is feeling a little knotted up in the upper trap and infraspinatus. Physical therapy is scheduled for today at 10:30 AM.

10 AM: Physical therapy (30 min). Same glenohumeral joint manipulation as last session. Chris said we will reassess next week and change up the rehab exercises.

Hi Eric Gohl! :)

s'more, how are your ladies?

Hey there Herm! Looks like it's just you and I lol. It's hard to believe you're already on day 21! Gotta love that time is flying by for that recovery :) And man, I feel you on the sore glutes...it's insane!

S'more, hope everything is going well for you and your family! Keep us updated on everything. We all want to be aunts/uncles/cousins! You'll never have to worry about finding a baby sitter with all of us around haha :)

I'll make this last 24hrs.

Babysitting activities for s'morelle:

BW squats
burpees
handstands
L-sits
cartwheels
broomstick overhead squats and SDLHP's

...just don't name her "Fran" :)

Day 23

Rest

"...You're the one with the shoulder right? Hope the rehab is going well, I did a knee about 8 years ago. I let it get 100% then got to enjoy my last two years of football pain free. Let that thing heal right and it will all be worth the wait."

Comment #386 - Posted by: TommyinBend at February 27, 2009 6:26 PM

Thanks Tommy, for reminding me of my catchphrase:

Doing it right - healing it up ONCE!

So I just wanted to share some info about my crossfit experience over the last two and a half months.

I got laid off from my job back at the end of November and moved back home with my parents at a unappealing weight of 210 lbs. Since the week after Christmas I have been doing the WOD's to the best of my abilities (some better then others) and running in the mornings. I have dropped almost 25 lbs. My strength has gone up steadily and my cardio has been through the roof. I love the CF community, most every post is an inspiration to push myself harder and harder at the gym.

On March 5th I am taking the Navy ASTB and beginning my application process for a commission. Crossfit has put me in both a better (although not to my goal)physical condition and mental state of attention.

Thanks to everyone who keeps CF such a great community!

Enjoy the rest day - 24hrs as RX'd!

Some rest day questions:

Why are sweet potatoes so highly recommended for pre and post workout nutrition as opposed to regular potatoes?

You know that feeling when you haven't lifted weights in a really long time? For example, you haven't back squatted in a month so you warm up with the bar, then you add on 20 lbs at a time, and by the time you hit 135 your legs are wobbly and your hamstrings feel really weak when you squat and you know you are going to be sore as hell tomorrow. And you are sore.

But after about four workouts you can lift almost as much as you used to and you don't get sore the next day anymore. What is happening that first day back? Why do you regain strength so quickly? And isn't that what is happening when you have a friend do crossfit for the first time and it totally destroys him?

Nice handstand, bad shoes. Say no to Crocs!

This is just a note to encourage older athletes who may be looking at the CF site and considering this fitness program. I'm telling you, male or female, this is second to none. I just turned 50 this month, have three screws in the femoral neck of my right leg due to an accident in 1996, and not much cartilage in my left knee because of too many miles on the road in the 80's.

I began Crossfitting in July of last year after much encouragement from my son, who is a CF certified trainer. The workouts may seem crazy hard at first, but if you will scale them down to what you can do, the improvements come very quickly. When I started, I could do one (yes, one) pullup and zero aquats because I didn't have the range of motion in my hip. Now that ROM has improved probably by 20% or 30% and I can now do squats where my thighs are parallel to the ground, something unthinkable six months ago. It's now no problem to do 25-30 pullups without stopping. I'm 6'5" and started out weighing around 240 and am now down to 203-205. My Fran time has gone from over 19 minutes the first time I tried it last July to 6:20 the last time we did it, and I know sub six is next. It is incredible how much my aerobic and anaerobic capacities have increased.

I could go on and on with the improvements I've seen, but won't bore anyone any further. The bottom line is don't let the difficulty of the workouts deter you from trying it. Crossfit is more than just a workout. It's a lifestyle and a way of life that will add years to your life span and will keep you mobile much longer than any other regime I've seen. Thanks to all who have put in all the work to develop such a comprehensive program that works for the beginner all the way up to the elite professional athlete.

If you are considering Crossfit, be encouraged. You can do it.

Hey Coach/CF top guns,

Are any articles or videos from the Science of Exercise Cert going to be posted soon? I'm anxious to learn what came out of it. And, second on my CF wishlist is a release date for Every Second Counts. The trailer gets me everytime.
cheers

the article made some very good points. The main points I took from it were that we really can't do anything about illegal immigrants without severely damaging many parts of our economy, our religious organizations, and our politics. I think there was a faulty appeal to conservatives by telling them they will lose allies that will allow them to "win" elections. I don't like people doing things they shouldn't and being criminal in their actions, but I dont think I could personally handle physically taking them back. Put up a fence, protect our interests, and lets take care of the people inside regardless

Herm something very close of what you said, Eric Gohl that would be great bro...thanks guys

my wife is now stable so i hit one metcon the fastest i could i named it..."USELESS"

"USELESS" as Rx
21-15-9

-Handstand pushups forehead to floor
-Dumbell swings 90# (final posotion overhead)
-BURPEES 1 foot over max reach stand (hands up)

time...6:52

it was useless but i got so much angry and frustation that it works

thanks each and everyone my crossfit family all you ladies and gentelmen are simply THE BEST

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo2O9AupMFs&feature=channel_page

changing things up for some variety

Happy rest day and Friday ya'll!

I just got my subscription to the journal and I gotta say...damn, I've been missing out. What a wealth of information! Go sign up if you have not already.

To S'more, Herm, Eric Gohl, Strong Lil' Pony, Billy and all my main site homies, stay strong, stay positive and never, ever quit!

Comment #10 - Marshall, sweet potatoes are so much better than regular potatoes. I don't really even eat regular potatoes anymore (or bananas). Sweet potatoes are going to have more nutrients, but more importantly, they're low on the glycemic index (30-40 on a scale where sugar is 100). On the other hand, regular potatoes are around 80. Essentially, that means the digested sugar from the regular potato is going to be absorbed much quicker and therefore, in a larger dose. Lots of blood sugar means a big insulin spike. Somthing we definitely want to avoid. Keeping your hormones stable is key to overall good health.
When you're eating your potatoes, don't forget the protein and fat!! Think zone diet.

As for your other question, that goes beyond any exercise physiology class I ever took. All I can think of is that the body is amazing and able to adapt very quickly - which is why we alternate our workouts on a daily basis.

Nathan comment 19, you're right on the money and you beat me to the punch, excellent comment :>)

Matt comment 17, great video, thanks for the link and the cool ideas! love the clean at the end.

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

much needed rest day. sore left calf over the past few weeks. and its killing today after those 400m runs yesterday.

Nathan and Billy

Any recommendations on how to prepare sweet potatoes?

Sweet pic, but... Crocs?

#22 KSW

bake them, steam em, roast em... google em

s'more - great news

playoff beard - about time. no better reference on anything crossfit

eric a herm - hey guys hope you are well

happy rest day people

Hey guys since we have a rest day I have question for anyone with an answer i have been working on my pull ups for awhile and my kipping and while i have had success i get alttle confused when a workout calls for more than the amout kipping and regular pull ups I can do should I do as many as I can do then do jump pulls or should I do as many as I can do then take a sec or two to let the muscles that are fatigued get back some energy
also to comment number 10 about the squats i dont exactly know but i can take a guess and say that your body desn't get that much stronger that quick i think that its really two things one even though it may not seem like it if you havent done that lift in a while you may have lost your form a bit but you might have been paying that much attention the first time instead focusing more getting the weight up causing you to tighten up more or 2. mabey its because body never forgets things it always rembers so all that soreness was just a wake up call

22 - KSW, Yeah, what Matt said!! Bake, steam roast - you're good to go. I usually just bake a bunch at a time and then refrigerate them. They're good hot, cold, or at room temp.
You can also bake chips out of them. Cut thin slices (use a slicer if you have one), line a cookie sheet with parchment paper (silicon coated paper for baking), and bake the slices on the lowest setting until dehydrated and crispy.

#10 & #19,
Marshal, you asked about PRE and POST consumption of sweet potatoes. That is the one time when you can actually eat a higher glycemic carb. After a heavy WOD your Glycogen is depleted and you can eat more/faster carbs than usual. Up to 50% of your blocks can be eaten post work out. so either 50 cups of brocolli OR a nice, baked YAM, sliced and then fried in coconut oil till there is a nice carmel glaze. Grate a bit of bitter chocolate on (when hot) and salt to taste. (Or just baked yam with olive oil and salt.)

The potato is a nightshade...Nightshade have toxins.
Yam and sweet potato are not nightshade.

Personally, I have troubles with wheat and potatoes. (Food sensitivity). I suspect most people are to some degree. If you eat wheat or potatoes and have a "spare tire" I suggest eliminating them. I stopped wheat and for the first time since I was a teenager I have "abs".

Today is my two month Crossfit Anniversary... How has it affected me?

I dropped a piece of gum today (still in wrapper) and used perfect deadlift form to pick it up, thus avoiding injury!

Thanks for teaching me about FUNCTIONAL MOVEMENT Coach!

Also, made it through day 5 of Zone diet, weighing and measuring (except for two dinners that my wonderful girlfriend made me). I'll be ready to kick ass at my cert in 3 weeks!

Does anyone have an issue with creaking/popping knees? I have read mixed reviews saying that it doesn't matter that joints make noise and others that say it is the onset of osteoarthritis. It is noticeably audible in my knees when I walk up stairs or squat. Just doesn't seem like something that should be happening if all is well within a joint. What are ya'lls thoughts?

Does anyone have a issue with creaking/popping joints? I have read mixed reviews saying that it doesn't matter if joints make noise and then others that say it is the onset of osteoarthritis. It is audibly noticable whenever I walk up stairs and squat. You guys have any thoughts?

""Conservatives should rethink their opposition to"

They should rethink their entire platform.

Joe at 7:38 PM"

How thoughtful of you. To ask a group of people to put all life experience aside so they can agree with you. I’m sure your mantra is tolerance, which from the left is usually a demand for endorsement and support and nothing less will be tolerated. Very Orwellian.

Holy Smokes, Matt! That video is amazing. I think I might try your first 2 combos.. with a broomstick (or MAYBE my 15lb bar!!)

thanks for posting the link, Kirez!

FRAT WARNING

“…we really can't do anything about illegal immigrants without severely damaging many parts of our economy, our religious organizations, and our politics. ….but I dont think I could personally handle physically taking them back.
pelch at 7:52 PM”

Hmmm. I dislike relativism but I’m going to indulge here. Nadler references in his article that there are 12 million illegals. I think this is one of the few things he got right.
Who else do we have in this country that are 12 million strong as illegals.

I know I know. Drug users. Yeah that’s it. Right now in America there are 12 million people getting wasted. And we spend 42 Billion dollars trying to put them in jail to make all the bad drug users stop F’ing up there own life. $3,500 for each and every drug user in America.

I think for $3,500 per person reward we could handle exporting illegals. It could be like picking up aluminum cans on the side of the road in the 80’s. It’s good for the environment and you can pay for your class trip vacation to Florida.

I love immigrants. They make my life better. I despise drug use. It’s ruined my brothers lives.

They are both breaking the law. We don’t get to pick and choose the laws we enforce. Arbitrary justice is not justice.

We can change the laws and as a society we’ve largely shrugged our shoulders about illegal immigrants and drug use deciding the easiest thing to do is maintain the status quo.

Conservatives adherence to enforcement first is based on their belief that if enforcement isn’t included in the first round of “Comprehensive Reform” it will never be included. And why would liberals be so diligent in their fight of including it in “Comprehensive Reform” if they were ever going to allow it?

Before I’m accused of being a Conservative, I’ll confess. I am kinda. I’m a party of one.
I’m a Libertarian/Originalist/Neo-con/conservative. That’s Libertarian big L. Conservative little c. For those who know the difference.

In closing why don’t we legalize both and put a tax stamp on them. Illegals pay The US instead of Coyotes and get much better traveling conditions and Drug Users get to ruin their lives in peace.

When I am crowned King of America, Here will be my solutions:

All productive people currently in America will be my subjects. Welcome, I love you. I'll let you know if you need to leave.

I'll hire only Mexicans to build a wall on the southern border. But the wall will be Condos. Nice Condos. They will then be leased to snowbirds from Canada (and the provence of Minnesota*),whose lease will not only pay for building the "Condo Wall" but, they will also provide some employment and nice housing for Mexicans. The Mexicans will want exclusive rights to this job market and will protect this "Condo Wall" from the REAL illegal aliens from even further south of Mexico. The Border Patrol will also have nice paved streets to patrol and could even have a nice Condo on the Border.

The snowbirds can fund the down payment by selling their huge RVs. (Also, the money they will save on fuel could easily pay for a maid.)

After the buildings are paid for, all future leases payments would go to me, the King.

(*People from Minnesota say the word "about" exactly like Canadians. It sounds like "a boat" They also eat the same food and drive the same RVs as Canadians)

I have brilliant solutions for other world troubles for example; Israel and Palastine, quite simple really; Time Shares. They take turns running the country based on shares. Or another "Condo Wall" that would be built, co-insured and underwritten by Hezbollah and Israel. If the "Condo Wall" is destroyed by either, the insurance premium would be forfitted to me, the beneficiary King. I should think that russian Mafia would enjoy the climate and happily pay the lease for a Condo in such a warm climate.

Finally, all US serving and veteran military get two votes in all elections. For as long as I am King.

Thank you,
The uncrowned King

PS. I would also abolish the words: Poods, pounds, stones, fathoms, inches, miles, leagues, furlong and other obsolescent terminology and go metric.

PPS. I would charge dearly to bring the worlds nuclear waste to Nevada. I'd pay each and every Nevada citizen handsomely. No property taxes for home owners, free energy and a monthly danger pay for living and working in Nevada. Of course any surplus profits would go to me the King.

rest days mean more work days from the chair... I sometimes love working and feeling my muscle heal.

I get to do some lifting today and 45 min cardio. Damn glutes!!!! Bastards!

Nice Crocs bro!

24 hours
as rxd

So rest day means political links....I remember not to log in on rest days.

23/m/180
2xWU
SB(BS3x3): 245-275(pr)-275, solid form
Headstands, STCs
Rugby

Rest Day WOD:

Pre-work skin up Snowmass with dog
Start elevation: 8500'
Finish elevation: 10,465'
Total vert: 1965'

With 25# vest

1hr 14min

Couple thoughts.

First, the essence of Conservatism is to think systemically, in terms of large scale cause and effect. We have to factor in what is right and just, but also what will work.

Second, politics is the art of the possible. In a democracy, you can have fine ideals, but spend a lifetime working hard to only get them implemented partially. This still counts as success.

Be both innocent as a dove and cunning as a snake. Christ himself taught this. Keep your ideals, but live in the real world.

As far as risk, the 9/11 attackers came in on visas. A 25' wall with Mexico would not have stopped them.

One immediate thing that we could do that might have an effect is to modify the Constitution such that persons born to parents who are here illegally do not become citizens, and do not get any of the rights of Americans.

Coupled with an effective system for checking the citizenship status of workers, at some point the flow might be stanched simply by eliminating the advantages of crossing the border.

Now, the negative aspect there is the increasing chaos in Mexico, and economic trouble. However, if they leave their homes, come here, and can't work or get citizenship for their kids, we have reduced the incentives as well as we can.

As I study costs, I would add that a fence would make sense too. A basic fence would cost less than a billion dollars--a drop in the bucket by the standards of Barry O. Hell, we could have hidden it in the Stimulus and no one would have been the wiser.

We put on the table that all current illegals get amnesty. They are already here, and we're not likely to ever muster the political will to kick them all out, not least because many business owners (who tend to be Republican) benefit from their labor.

However, as has NOT happened with previous amnesties, we take credible measures to prevent another discussion about another 12 million illegals ten years from now.

I'm thinking as I type, but let us propose the following: amnesty; fence; penalties to business owners; no citizenship; six month hard labor and repatriation for anyone caught after the amnesty.

Mexico is not and should not be a 51st state in the US. They have as many resources, almost, as we do, but have failed entirely to make use of them. We are richer because our people are more honest, more industrious, and more forward thinking. Our system of government, for all these reasons, is much more humane, effective, and powerful. We are not a superpower because we happened to occupy--admittedly through war and conquest--North America. We are a superpower because we have had the best people, and best system of government. In a competitive world, we have done better than other nations.

If people want to point to our rapacity, was it any worse than that of the Conquistadors? The Aztecs, who flayed their opponents and ran through the streets in their skins?

We don't need to apologize for what we have accomplished, or concern ourselves overly much with the failure of other nations to do the same. Life tends to be fair.

And perhaps, in fairness, our growing mediocrity will catch up with us.

moral consistancy dictates we follow all the laws, and not just the ones that benefit our cause. I recognize this is a very "alien" concept to those who lack intestinal fortitude and any semblance of integrity. I will never understand an argument that establishes its effectiveness upon cheating a system to gain a foothold or an advantage. We all lose when this occurs.

jakers #32

Amen.

Rest day is much needed!
I'm not on the main site's wods...this was my 5th day on because I knew I was taking today off...did Fran yesterday 3:32 rxed 65lb for women, chin to the bar pull-ups. I'm fairly happy w/ that, my last time was over 5 mins. My new goal is to go sub 3.

-Susannah Banana

Barry Cooper

"We are not a superpower because we happened to occupy--admittedly through war and conquest--North America. We are a superpower because we have had the best people, and best system of government."

I think we are a superpower because we have the best law, in particular the best foundation - the US Constitution.

On a scale as large as the millions I think the variation in people tends to even out. Especially if you are talking about a people with no unique genetic precedents.

Americans are decedent from other ethnic groups around the world, all of whom we outperform.

Now perhaps there is some synergistic effect when combining ethnicities but then how do you explain Brazil.

Or, perhaps there is a founder effect in which only the best genes came to America. But, then why not Argentina, which experienced similar waves of European Immigration.

We have immigrants from Mexico to the US precisely because the very act of stepping on US soil radically increases their economic productivity.

This is because they are under a new legal jurisdiction. That jurisdiction promotes free enterprise and maintains, by and large, the rule of law.

All of that building up to the point that I am not sure what we loose by easing immigration restrictions. If people in the border states are tired of taking in Hispanics, we will take them here in North Carolina.

Our state is still rapidly growing and we have roads that need building and office towers that need erecting.

A witch hunt for illegals is clearly too expensive and too dramatic to be a realistic solution to our immigration problem. However, the systematic deportation of illegals as they are discovered in the investigation of criminal activity is not. The "flavor" of their deportation should be on the scale of the crime committed.

The incarceration of illegals that commit felonious acts should be segregated from "citizen prisons" and followed up with a one way ticket to their homeland (where ever that may be). Their conditions in said prison should only be adequate to meet their basic human rights (don't want Amnesty International knocking).

Illegals discovered through the investigation of non-felonious acts should be deported immediately (and for all the do-gooders out there) without any other penalty. For those of you that say what about the mom that has the "citizen" child, all children born to illegals either don't become citizens, or citizenship should be conditional until the parents prove their legal justification for being here (either through citizenship or legal visa). Then if the parent or parents are caught, the minor either goes with them, or at the decision of the parents, may remain with a legal custodian of the parents choice (and maintain their citizenship).

Once again, for the do-gooders, those deported with children remaining in the states could apply LEGALLY for a Visa to come back and be DOCUMENTED. This application could have preferential treatment for petty, NON-VIOLENT or NON-FELONIOUS CRIMINALS (hopefully nothing more than their immigration violation).

We should continue to build a monitored barrier (north and south) to discourage/limit/reduce illegal entry. The threat to our country is real. We have a real enemy that wants to either eliminate or assimilate us. I understand that this is the land of good 'n plenty. A place where you can be from anywhere and make it. I support that. Part of making that dream a reality is obeying the law. Breaking the law is just that, breaking the law, and there needs to be a consequence to it.

Jon #26-

Do as many kipping as you can, jump off the bar and rest for a few seconds, then get back on it and start kipping again. Don't do jumping or rubber band-assisted pullups unless you've reached complete muscle failure or if your max number of kipping pullups is fairly low. Obviously with a workout like Angie (100 pullups to start) you're not going to be able to finish them all in one set, but most people will still have to break the pullups in Fran or Helen-type WODs into multiple sets. The best way to do more pullups is to do more pullups. So pretty soon you'll see that you can complete those WODs with fewer breaks.

s'more - GREAT news! In two short days you will hold your baby girl and your heart will just melt...

No rest day for me today -

CFWUx3 (- BE's + Push ups)

Did yesterday's HBE/400m run WOD

Couldn't get the treadmill to start on round 1 so I ran outside, in the cold and uphill for the second 200m...(Running is just plain hard!) Remaining rounds on the treadmill.
HBE's on GHD

Slow, but As Rx'd 27:23 (This is only the second time I've been able to say this!)

Lots of energy at CrossFit Persevere this morning - Thanks Kim and Russ!

F58/140/5'2"(almost)

To say that if something is a law than it must be right is flawed. Supply and demand will dictate what is produced. If there is a demand for unskilled labor, then unskilled labor will come from somewhere. In our case, the government has (through social welfare programs) disincentiveized (sp?) documented Americans from participating in unskilled labor. If the market dictates a need for this unskilled labor and documented Americans cannot or will not provide it, then it must logically be provided by undocumented Americans.

On the complaint that undocumented Americans are cheating the system, getting health benefits, it is a clear argument against government provided health care.

The government is allowed to maintain currency because they are very good at maintaining the integrity of the currency (keeping counterfeiting to a minimum). If they cannot maintain the integrity of health care then they should not placed in charge of health care.

Did yesterdays workout today. After that I am resting like nobodys business.

Bartman - Good Job! And thank you for sharing!

Well let's just forget about it then. They will still vote Democrat. Mexico will only suck worse as there will never be any push from within to change it. America will only get worse as liberal ideas gain more and more strength and eventually America will suck as bad as Mexico. Then there will be no where to go.

#54 wrote:
If the market dictates a need for this unskilled labor and documented Americans cannot or will not provide it, then it must logically be provided by undocumented Americans.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. The logical conclusion is that to access the unskilled labor, non-American (foreign national) laborers must be sourced from outside of America. Therefore, you permit the legal entry of documented foreign nationals into the country to provide said labor.

There is no such thing as an "undocumented American". Your "UA" is what I refer to as an illegal alien.

Karl,

I think the difference in our people is that in large measure they came here seeking either freedom of conscience and belief, or economic opportunity.

And by economic opportunity was meant the opportunity to work hard, and keep the results. We got some aristocrats here, but by and large it middle and lower class people who were solid, Bible-believing Christians.

Our Constitution is a brilliant document, in many ways. No doubt it has been a guiding light. But it would not have worked for a fundamentally dishonest, slothful nation. It could have been corrupted long ago in the manner the Democrats are trying to corrupt it today.

I am perfectly happy to concede that all men and women should be equal in the eyes of the law. I am not convinced they are born equal in their innate capacities, or that all cultures are equally likely to lead to material prosperity, and policital stability.

Ideas drive history, and ideas do not just happen, no matter what the Marxists say.

Quinn's "Dirty Thirty"

For time:
30 muscle ups
30 left pistols
30 L pull ups
30 R pistols
30 Ring Dips
30 Squats
30 HSPU
30 2 pood KB swings
30 calories on rower
30 snatches, 55 lbs

41:53

agree! lets call it what it is. Growing very tired of the cool "terminology" the government invents for its lack of resolve to make a decision. The right thing is never the popular opinion. It was a few that made the many great. I look forward to seeing someone do the seemingly unpopular that adresses and attacks the real issues. The "undocumented American" name derives from the same mentality that tells our soldiers not to shoot unless shot.

OK, #54 turned into #51

Day 22 post-op: Rest day and cheat dayyyy!

9:30 AM

Shoulder rehab in accordance with Post #344 on Thursday, 2/19/09. Notes:

Walk backs are continuing to get easier and less pain is noticed. Humeral abduction to the front is up to 150-160 degrees away from midline.

Wall crawls: I can almost put my armpit on the wall with fully extended reach...happy!!! Slight bits of pain in the ROM up to that point, but done slowly enough it is tolerable.

Scapula squeezes are pain free, as are both rotations. I get some semi-painful popping if I don't go super slow.

Bicep still receives a tiny bit of dull ache from full elbow extensions. No pain during the wrist supination and pronation.

Holy moley...my buns are some sore. Happy for the rest day.

make up

21 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
18 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
15 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
12 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
9 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
6 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
3 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters

Post time to comments. 17:47

Just an update...
I started crossfit this week! I have been doing the workouts that are in the Faq section just one by one. This week I did the top three, I am working up to working four days in a row with a rest day and then repeat. Anyways, this week I completed Angie, Barbara, and Chelsea. All I can say is WOW!!! I played college sports and I can NEVER remember a workout that is taxing the entire time. Don't get me wrong, I have to modify some of the workout to complete it and I know thats ok. My goal is to complete all workouts with no mods. I could NOT feel any better about what I'm doing! Its a great feeling and going to be a way of life now!

I am a PE teacher so I have started my kids on portions of the workout. At first they hated it, I got to do what? They would say. Then after the would come to me and couldn't believe what they just did!!

Its an awesome workout. Thanks to those that put the time into this website to make it great!!

#51 Mike Morgan

>>To say that if something is a law than it must be right is flawed.

Agreed. Many, many (many) laws on the books violate basic human rights, and therefor are, regarding "natural law", illegal themselves. Not that the lawmakers care, and since they don't it's up the the populace to ignore them the best they can.

>>On the complaint that undocumented Americans are cheating the system, getting health benefits, it is a clear argument against government provided health care.

Agreed again. The two main complaints I hear about illegals is that they recieve government welfare, a.k.a. our money, without our permission, and that they "steal" low-paying jobs which would otherwise go to low-producing citizens of the U.S.

The second complaint, of course, can be rephrased as "They are willing to work at crappy jobs, harder than me, for less money". Rephrased yet again, they lower the cost of innumerable goods and services, which benefits the consumer. Raise your hand if you are NOT a consumer.

That being said, discarding the welfare state removes both of these complaints. First, only the productive aliens would have any incentive to come here (or the rich ones, to vacation, and spend their money). So anyone coming to the U.S. would add to the productivity of the U.S., add competition to the labor market, and generally aid in making life better for all of us. Second, all the legal U.S. citizens currently sitting at home with their seven children (four of which are ficticious), collecting welfare, would need to get jobs...NOW. Which means they would be willing to work at crappy jobs, hard, for little money, lowering costs for you, and me, and themselves, and each other.

With the removal of the welfare state, I don't see any grounds for complaint about people coming into this country from Mexico, or anywhere else, on economic grounds.

>>The government is allowed to maintain currency because they are very good at maintaining the integrity of the currency (keeping counterfeiting to a minimum).

I totally disagree. If keeping counterfeiting to a minimum were the gold standard for maintaining a currency (and that would mean inflation isn't bad, or not bad enough to consider when thinking about "integrity"), the government would be in last place. Currency is anything which has value as a trade medium. It may have other value, think gold and siver and copper, which are beautiful and used to make many things, but it has additional value because it is easily divisible, portable, and accepted for exchange.

Paper money is used for exchange because the government makes it illegal to use anything else by way of the legal tender laws. Without those, paper currency would face competition from currencies which were spawned in the market, and of course the government would then have to keep the currency stable, meaning they couldn't inflate it whenever they needed a little spending cash. Boo-hoo for them. Since paper itself has much less value than precious metals, it would probably be pushed out of the system by fair competition within a decade. So really, by using legal tender laws to render themselves monopolistic producers of money, and by printing paper dollars which are not redeemable in anything of value, only other paper dollars, the government itself is technically counterfeiting money.

did fran today.

7:51

Lunge/PU/SU WOD, as Rx'd.

16:34

Shout out to the FOG's in CF family. Keep working hard. It's about the journey. The improvement I've made in just over 1 year keeps me coming back for more.

#54 You made me laugh so hard!

Ahhhh such a relief to see conservative thinkers refer to immigrants as aluminum cans on the side of the road. Classy!

You want free market economy but not competitive labor pools? Doesn't work.

Immigrants do the jobs that unemployed over sudsidized citizens CHOOSE not to do.

Immigrants who get healthcare, by and large, WORK for a living.

The government historically proves that it cannot run business effectively, thus it SHOULD NOT run healthcare. Healthcare should be NON-PROFIT.

All who make money off of our money should be expelled. This is bankers(of all types), insurance, investment, CREDIT etc.

NON-PROFIT Healthcare + NO INSURANCE= Fair market value for health services.

Imagine how much your house WOULD HAVE cost if not for immigrant labor!

Took yesterday as rest day, today was back ext with 1/4mi sprints WOD.

as rx'd
17:51

Got my 1/4 to 1:12. Still have a little ways to go for triathlon season, want my 400's at :58 with my mile around 5:00. Happy rest day to everyone!

24/m/168

so today is my 25th birthday and when i woke up today i thought to myself, i better hit a wod today b/c im gonna be way too hungover to do one well tomorrow. so my wod was...

225# squat clean, 25 reps

14:43

my leg strength killed me. i missed three or four reps during the workout just because i couldn't squat the weight up. that's exactly what i needed though. initially i was just going to do 15 reps (which i finished right at 7mins), but i figured its my 25th bday so i may as well do 25 reps. go big or go home.

now im off with some friends to a place called skyzone. it has a bunch of trampolines and such, and i watched a vid of UFC legend randy couture training there so i figured it would be an awesome time. i should be in some pain tomorrow!

Had to post here...

GOT MY FIRST MUSCLE UP TODAY!!!
A Year in the works... nothing has felt so damn good!

f/26/132

Lee in NV M/55/196#/71" at 12:00 AM

You are pretty funny and you have a good idea with the condo's. But make no mistake I'm the class clown around here. If you refuse to stop being funny I will challenge you to FRAN! And no not a Fran for time that would be silly on my part. A 14 year old girl beat my time. No a Fran of misfortune and comedy. I can drop a weight on my foot and have my wife pissing her pants as I hop around and cuss. Just so you know what you are up against.

Barry-Well said as always

Rangerboy- I like where your head is at.

MMalmfeldt- you sir (or Madame I can't really tell) are a Genius.

Karl & Barry I think you are looking for the fly crap in the pepper. You two are debating just to debate. It's fairly nuanced so far.

Bob in Kabul- Just calling it a witch hunt lessens the will to have them follow the law. The bulk of your post is solid. But until we enforce the law there is no reason for anyone to change it. Heck why not just repeal all legislated immigration laws and we'll go old school common law.

Mike Morgan-Holy Cow your all over the road man. Your premise is fairly amoral. Any market demand should be legal? Speeding, Drunk Driving, drugs, Pedophilia, organ harvesting and murder.

Herm- It seems like you are recovering by leaps and bounds. That is awesome! It will be no time before you can stop showing off with the one handed pullups & WODS.

Goat- Good stuff. When the complaint is made about illegals stealing our jobs I ask is they've ever worked in a chicken plant. There isn't enough money to put me or the majority of people on the line in a rendering plant.

jakers #73

Ugh, chicken plants. I've never worked in one but I've heard a hundred horror stories. I would have to be on the verge of starving to get a job there.

As for your comment to Mike Morgan. I think maybe you misunderstood. I think he meant that market forces, the demand by the people, is stronger than any government enforcement. The more people who want something, and the more they want it, the less likely it is that the government will be successful in prohibiting it. The "war on drugs" is a prime example. Alcohol prohibition is another. Hiring of loss-cost labor a third.

I'm at the point where I'm willing to part with some organs, for the right price. Anyone need a kidney?

Re: Nadler “At What Cost?”

Nadler says the relevant question now is “what we want from [comprehensive immigration reform]”. He suggests no answer.

Nadler doesn’t tell us which laws we would enforce under his new order.

Nadler doesn’t mention the national insult of streams of Mexicans pouring across the border, and hordes of Mexicans bursting across the check-points.

Nadler doesn’t mention that McCain ran on a policy of comprehensive immigration reform, meaning, of course, amnesty for the 12 million. Of course, McCain baldly denied it. This wasn’t just a semantic game – it was a lie. Like “read my lips” Bush ’41, McCain lost what little support he might have gleaned from his own party. And of course got shellacked, to use Nadler’s term, in the election.

But the thanks goes not just to McCain's Nadler-favored policy, but more to the economic collapse, which, unknown to McCain and W, was engineered by Democrats from start to finish.

Nadler doesn’t mention that the leftist government of Mexico not only does not attempt to prevent the invasion, but encourages and promotes it. It’s the Mexican fix for its socialism. Nadler doesn’t mention that no Administration has put any real effort into discouraging Mexico from this uncivil practice. Nadler doesn’t tell us what he thinks of just closing the border.

Nadler doesn’t mention the stability and success of the Bracero Program, why it was dumped in 1964, who was behind dumping it, who gained from dumping it, or what dumping it has achieved. Perhaps Nadler was a fan of Cesar Chavez and the unionization of farm workers.

Nadler asks, “At What Cost”. Then he uses statewide statistics to support his case that illegal immigration is not so bad. He might want to use a little finer resolution, and check the health care costs and law enforcement costs within a hundred miles or so of the border. Nadler doesn’t mention the drug trafficking problem and its social and economic costs, nor how it is facilitated by a porous border, by NAFTA, by a network of illegals, and a national policy of prohibition.

Very soon, none of this is going to matter much. We’re being Oscar Bravo Echo’d – overcome by events, as we used to say in the Navy. The US is plunging into an economic abyss, and sucking the world in behind it. Capitalism was the source of the world’s economy, and socialism is its sink. The US had been the world’s market place, but Obama is turning it into a flea market.

Businesses are collapsing for want of markets. Investment and consumerism is collapsing for want of credit. Lenders are collapsing for want of assets. Obama is planning on a confiscatory tax on the “upper 2%” – i.e., he’s going to penalize capital formation itself. He’s going to bootstrap the economy by taking money out of it over there and putting it back in here.

Obama is the energy engineer who’s going to drain the reservoir to feed the river, bypassing the turbines.

His stock market is hemorrhaging, closing off equity sales as a source of capital. Meanwhile, he’s flung the treasury doors wide open, and the kids are clambering over one another to strew goodies everywhere. His stimulus is for a banana republic. The vault will be filled with debt and the floor spotted with banana peels.

Obama will flood the treasury market with new offerings. Selling prices will drop, meaning interest rates will soar. This is the manifestation of inflation, on top of which all market interest rates ride.

How many things can be done to harm the economy? Obama knows.

Who’s going to write mortgages while the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 remains in force to require lenders to make high risk loans? How can the bank asset problem be fixed while S&P, Fitch, and Moody’s can sell AAA ratings for cash, and junk them at will? The answer is: nationalize industry, then it no longer needs to show a profit. After all, that’s why the government runs anything. That’s why under complete socialism the government runs everything.

Wealth is collapsing with the stock market, with the bond market, with retirement accounts, with real estate values. What is left is cash, and it will be liquidated through raging inflation. The last refuge will be money market accounts. But US tax receipts will be in the toilet this year, and falling. Obama will be forced to enact wage and price controls, inevitable consequences of socialism. He needs to tax savings accounts, interest payments, and the Internet.

A broke nation will not be able to support the carbon credit program. The AGW threat, which is after all not a consequence of greed proved by science but a cause of socialism, will be dead and irrelevant.

A broke nation will not be able to defend itself or its allies. We’ll run out of precision guided weapons and drones, then bullets and soon uniforms. If we leave any soldiers in the field, they will look like nothing so much as a rag tag band of terrorists.

Just yesterday, Warren “Wind Mill” Buffet, on the eve of his unprecedented $5-8 billion one year loss in his holding company, is predicting “the economy, gripped by fear, ‘will be in shambles throughout 2009 … and, for that matter, probably well beyond’ … . ” WSJ, 2/28/09. But $5 billion is only half what he planned to spend on his wind farm. Buffet is way too optimistic. He got oil prices wrong, too. He strives to be full of hot air.

Note that WSJ, not Buffet, said “gripped by fear”. But it’s not fear; that’s what FDR feared. The economy is in the grip of a new crop of wild-eyed socialists. They’re preparing us a delicious feast of the Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs.

Employment is collapsing. The efflux of illegals back to Mexico has started, and it will be accelerating. The solution to the 12 million problem is just to wait.

No, Nadler. The illegals problem is going to take care of itself as Depression 2.0 levels the playing field across the Rio Grande.

What Republicans need to do is build a platform to restore capitalism.

Actually, what I meant was institute a withholding tax on interest.

WOW

I have to say im a little shocked at the blatant disregard for our fellow man on this page. Id like to pose a question... why kick out immigrants? Everyone is whining about how to kick people out most effectively. Pointless. I got a better idea. Lets raise penalties for immigrants who are not registered, but ENCOURAGE them to do so, and welcome a hard-working work force to our country. I mean someone throws out a buzzword and everyone jumps on it - "illegal immigrants" - gogogo. Theyre just people who want to get a decent job and make money so their family doesnt have to poo in the streets anymore. What gives you the right to "kick them out" of "your country"? I had to chuckle that a couple of you actually had the audacity to mention the constitution in the same paragraph as discussing building a wall to our neighbor. L.O.L. I think you missed the part about FREEDOM buddy.

There is however a problem with immigrants not being able to become citizens more quickly, because then we cant tax the livin jesus outta them. This is the real issue. The rest of America is having to pay for infrastructure being used by people who are not taxed. I think people are a little confused and think that if we remove all the immigrants, then magically there will be more jobs for "the average joe". Just doesnt work that way, if you stop herding for a second and think. Companies will still save money. Instead now theyll ship their WHOLE COMPANY OVERSEAS. Or just to mexico.... I think its absurdly funny that in our economy (the dow is half what it was 6 months ago... thats scary!) you are all supporting the removal of a substantial portion of our working class. Brilliant. Maybe next we should give enough money away to failing companies to completely lose ourselves in national debt. And then next we should lower crime by having everyone own a gun.

marcus at 10:55 AM

As we would say back home you are no Rocket Surgeon.

Picking up illegals as aluminum cans is what we in the business call a "joke." 100% of the population thinks they have a sense of humor, I'm sure you think you do, but I'm going to guess that you've never laughed at a Fart or D1ck joke. Because the line of demarcation for comedy is largely scatological.
And before you tell me how that's not funny and we can't make fun of them b/c their life is hard, we have a rule around here that you have to let people catch their breath and wipe the tears from their eyes before you tell them how what they are laughing at isn't funny.

Your headed in the right general direction on economics but your still off base.

And maybe you missed the closing to my post. It basically said let's tax them and make them legal so they can keep building me a cheap house, wash my clothes and mow my yard but make no mistake at the other end we have the quants from India that are doing the math that American's don't want to do either.

Jeff Glassman #75

>>Employment is collapsing. The efflux of illegals back to Mexico has started, and it will be accelerating. The solution to the 12 million problem is just to wait.

Good point. During the Great Depression Mexico had the same problem keeping Americans out as we are having with Mexicans and others now.

FDR turned a bad recession into ten years of worldwide depression. Unemployment stayed at approximately the same level throughout, and only dropped at the outset of WWII because the unemployed joined the armed forces en mass. Obama's policies mirror FDR's.

Soldier and half-Hispanic…….so I guess I am 1 for 1 with all you classy people.

With the Hispanic population growing feverously across the nation, the public outcry had become dramatic overall. Crunching the numbers you find that they have lower SAT scores specifically math and English (go figure). Most don’t graduate from high school or go to college. Hispanics count for 40% percent of all offenders in federal court, most of them illegals. Even actors playing Hispanic parts ( if an Italian guy isn’t playing them); tend to be either criminals or homosexual for the exception of George Clooney (half Puerto-Rican); which is equally repugnant to some Americans. Hell Hispanics can’t even be called a race anymore, which baffles my mind. They might even be 3/5 of a race to some.

I think there are plenty of reasons to justify demonizing a race…..er um group of people. In fact what I think America is accomplishing in the long run is masterfully crafted. First a lackadaisical effort of border control is accomplished for a number of years bringing in a number illegals. Then assimilation begins, and the general population resists both explicity/implicitly, leaving crime to elevate. Taking into consideration their religious beliefs, abortions are out of the question. Therefore Hispanic birthrates go up. So there is a new generation of people destined to work either paid less than every other American because they are the low-man on the totem pole. After-all, even the Irish had their turn.

Since the Hispanic population keeps growing, they will eventually trump every Ethnic group in America. Meanwhile the overall population gets pretty upset, (as we have all seen for a number of years). Predominantly in Texas, California, Arizona, Colorado, etc.

I don’t think we are getting the big picture. If an ethnic group outnumbers all others, their chances for scholarships to universities decrease. Overall they could be excluded from any government aid. The perk now is America has a sustainable influx of degenerates. Now every wing wants a piece of the pie, (well at least) until they don’t need them anymore.

Congratulations America you are now South Africa.

Who cares if Lauren has a problem with the jerk selling her oranges at the stop-light. Or if one of them “ you know those people” messes up her latte.

Enough of the mental-masturbation its boring. I have to get better, faster, and stronger………everyday.

F/22/5'6"/135

Squat progression, 95#
17 rounds + 1

For all the open border proponents: Do we have open airports too? (no need to check documentation for international passengers, etc) There are 2 billion Chinese and Indians ready to come to the open borders too. (Granted they need the funds to purchase airfare but let's not get into the details)

third day on cathletics.com workout.

Snatch: 67/89/133 (my weakest lift, by far)
Clean and Jerk: 133/177/199
Front Squat: 221
Good Mornings 3x10, 45/67/99

Then stretching. Thighs tight.

Immigration is the competitive force that America was built on. For the most part, that desire to compete is vanishing among our citizens(CFers, generally are the exception).

This all somehow strikes me as... if you can't beat 'em, change the rules.

The immigration policy of throw 'em out and don't let 'em in is merely the adult version of fairness and safety that is making the youth of this nation soft.

So give me my bike helmet and my blue ribbon just for being here and everything will be OK.

I'm with marcus, the way people here speak of undocumented immigrants is disgusting.

If the more right leaning bunch here had their way, I never would have had the opportunity to go to college since I never would have been granted citizenship (my parents were undocumented immigrants). I never would have been able to work hard and graduate with honors, never would have been accepted into a number of PhD programs with full funding (I'm attending grad school this fall), and I never would have had the chance to escape poverty.

Apparently none of that should have happened. After all, we're just so much garbage to be picked up off of the street.

Jakers, you are so hilarious. You're right, the plight that undocumented immigrants face in this country, the constant fear that stems from the increased likelihood of being stripped from our homes and communities, from being detained and humiliated with little legal recourse, from having increased violence, state or otherwise, levied against us, from the likelihood that the lives we have struggled to create in the shadow of the larger society that shuns and degrades us, from having our very existence labeled as a criminal act from which we deserve no remorse, pity, or understanding, is just plain funny.

I love crossfit and the positive changes it has made in my life. I think what Glassman has done for the fitness world and for anyone looking to improve their lives is wonderful.

But if this is the level of discourse to be found within the crossfit community, if this lack of regard for the humanity of others is to be expected, then I am frankly ashamed to be associated with it.

CFSB day 1, backsquats (full A2A Rip style) 3 x 5, 145, 155, 165. Thanks Jeff & Bingo.

It feels wrong to post on a rest day, but CFSB is putting me off sequence, and anyway, Bingo does it, and if he said to jump off a cliff...

Yesterday's WOD: 16:04 as rx'd

Avg HR 178, peak 193, rec. 75 (highest 2 min. recovery ever!). Thanks Coach.

m/28/5'11/168

CFSB
Front squat 5-5-5
60-80-90kg

Walking lunge 100 ft.
21 Pull-ups
21 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
18 Pull-ups
18 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
15 Pull-ups
15 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
12 Pull-ups
12 Sit-ups
Walking lunge 100 ft.
9 Pull-ups
9 Sit-ups
Walking Lunge 100 ft.
6 Pull-ups
6 Sit-ups

Rx 7:54 situps feet anchored

#72 Tracey - AWESOME - that is fantastic!!! I haven't even attempted one yet as i still struggle with my damn pullups!

did yesterdays WOD today after going to all you can eat Oyster party last night - mmmmmm they were sooooooo good but man i ate way too much, haven't done that in about 3 months so i guess it is allowed

C2 row WU 1000k
50 DU's
5 Pullups, 5 dips

21 BE
400M...
As RX'd 18:10 had to wait for damn equipement!! stupid Globo

Rowed another 3K after

Why are all rest day articles from the conservative point of view? I would like to see a little diversity in the article selection.

Its a sunny 78 degrees today! Today's WOD
4 rounds
800m run rest as needed between rounds

3:30/3:19/3:28.....and 3:10!!! Yay me! rounds 1 & 3 were eh - felt off. Gassed it on 2 & 4. Big ups to my boys for pushing me on Round 4!!! I am still pretty trashed and my ass is still sore from lunges yesterday. Happy though! Herm - baby luv- GREAT progress on rehab exercises!! So proud of you!! :) remember - rest day AS RXd!!!! Im good at that one!

Alberto,

If the life you describe here is so fraught with peril and fear why do ILLEGAL immigrants chose, yeah that's right they chose, to come to and stay in America.

Because it's still a better choice than what they have back home.

By the way we define a criminal act as breaking the law. Hence the ILLEGAL part. They are not undocumented they are ILLEGAL. My brother is not an undocumented Pharmacist. He's a drug dealer. Poor thing has to live in fear of the police. That just ain't right. (Sarcasm) BS he should fear the police. He's breaking the freaking law.

And leave it to a soft skulled liberal to be offended by the "discourse" and want to take his toys and go home. Sorry the world won't always agree with you. Life's hard wear a helmet.

and Aaron,

First Thank you for serving.
Second I don't recall anyone demonizing a race. We had to leave that to you. I'm pretty sure the rest of us were talking about 12million law breakers and the best way to deal with it for the other 288 million documented/legal people in the country.

#72 Tracey - AWESOME!!! :)

Dang! This cheap broccoli sure tastes good!

Barry, if the essence of Conservatism is to think systemically, then what, pray tell, is the essence of Liberalism? I have a feeling your answer will help me know you a little better.

Jeff, you're experiencing what the last 8 years were like for many of us. Don't worry, after a few months you'll learn to pace yourself. It just kinda happens. I found it was helpful to not read any political news on Monday, Wednesday, or Friday. Do you like sports? Baseball is really cool. They talk about drugs a lot.

Jakers, I'm on the fence about you.

I don't believe it is possible or plausible to remove 12Mil immigrants who just happened to enter the US in an illegal manner. Whoever is here let them stay unless they break another law.

Ehson: It may come from a conservative medium but its message is to be more liberal on the issue. I doubt anyone could find a liberal publication advocating a conservative view. If so why don't you place in a link.

Alberto: Congrads on your accomplishment but based on your logic why should we pay taxes? You break the law if you don't pay. Disregard a law with no consequences. Might as well.

Jakers,

I think you may have misunderstood the point of my post. I am not trying to tear down this country, it has given me a number of wonderful opportunities and I am forever indebted to the kindness of many of its citizens. I would be in the same poverty trap that ensnares so many other were it not for those people.

I am asking you and some of the other more vitriolic members here to simply recognize the fellow humanity of undocumented immigrants, to recognize that theirs is an equally valid part of the human condition. I wish that you and others would not speak of this hard working demographic with such little regard that you can joke about them as being akin to human garbage.

I favor the term undocumented immigrant over the term illegal immigrant not because I choose not to acknowledge that entering the United States under such circumstances is in fact a violation of the law (which it is), but rather because I refuse to make that singular part of their lives their defining characteristic. You equate the law with morality and any violations of it with immorality, which is wholly unreasonable.

Can you imagine the kind of depredation one has to suffer in one's home country to make facing this kind of hatred on a daily basis, this level of pervasive fear, preferable? I am asking you to please only consider undocumented immigrants not just as criminals who have come here to flaunt your laws or abuse your social services and subsequently castigate them for it, but instead see them as victims of circumstance who chose to come here simply for the opportunity to survive.

Tracy - thank you for the kind words, though I was making no arguments about the validity of immigration laws nor was I advocating skirting all consequences, I am simply asking that members of this community not refer to my family and friends as trash.

I don't believe it is possible or plausible to remove 12Mil immigrants who just happened to enter the US in an illegal manner. Whoever is here let them stay unless they break another law.

Ehson: It may come from a conservative medium but its message is to be more liberal on the issue. I doubt anyone could find a liberal publication advocating a conservative view. If so why don't you place in a link.

Alberto: Congrads on your accomplishment but based on your logic why should we pay taxes? You break the law if you don't pay. Disregard a law with no consequences. Might as well.

Jakers,

One more thing, I don't consider myself a liberal, though my politics have little to do with my desire for you to recognize the humanity of others and treat them with respect.

Melissa Cvjeticanin- I tried one of your workouts you posted a bit ago. It was excellent. So I got browsing on your affilate site- CF Mississauga- and did a modified version of one I found. They have some pretty excellent WOD's!

8 Rounds:
10 DL, 95#
8 Push ups (honest)
6 Cleans, 95#
4 burpees
= 27:09

At round 6 I was just over 19 min. Obviously really started wearing out. This was supposed to be 12 rounds but decided to stop at 8. Excellent workout!

Was pretty tired yesterday (rest day for me) but it was not so much of a rest. Was busy busy busy and beat last night. Had to work this am too.

S'more- glad to hear your wife is doing good!!! And the countdown for Lil Sm'more's appearance is one! Yay!

Erin

#43 Barry, You seem to have given a slight disclaimer in your last few paragraphs. Were you foreseeing the argument that we stole most of this land being immigrated, in 1845. You allude to our rapacity relative to history. I will have to agree. No other entity has ever said "hand that over" in a kinder way. I say that with some sarcasm but mostly sincerity.

Marcus #69:

Would you be so kind as to define what would constitute a "non-profit healthcare" system?

mas #88: Dude...step away from the edge...:=)

Alberto V and multiple others: I find your (collective) protest about the alleged disregard for the "humanity" of those individuals to be a strawman. The posted article specifically discusses the formulation of governing policies in our national legislature, and specifically notes applicable laws. It addresses the LEGALITY of undocumented entry and domicile in the United States among its points, and specifically addresses how the Conservative wing of American politics should consider changing its approach to this issue. We are being asked to comment on the author's premise and subsequent suggestions, and yes, also on the issue of how the legislature as a whole should address the issue of illegal immigration, its effect on our economy, and its effect on our national security.

This is a political and economic and legal issue. Trying to make this some sort of human rights issue is silly. A strawman. Call out commenters who you feel might be callous if you must, but that does not change the nature of the issue, nor does it change the thrust of the article.

FWIW, comments regarding the effect of changing illegal immigrants (who have not committed other crimes) into fully vested citizens for the purpose of increasing the tax rolls show a lack of understanding of how our tax system works and who, in fact, does pay taxes in the U.S. Citizen or not, individuals who do the jobs that we are assigning in this discussion to illegal immigrants do not pay income tax in the U.S. because they fall well below the income level at which net taxation begins. While this is an economic issue to be sure, and these individuals contribute to the productivity of the U.S. economy, they are net consumers of government services whether they are legal or illegal.

There seems to be a lot of yearning for laws and majority control by both of our major political parties. There really is no room for liberty on either platform. I go back and forth on whether I think this is a conscious decision in order for some to gain power or if it just a gradual degradation in ideology. The terms used to collectively identify ideology are completely dynamic and are less relevant than common slang. On the spectrum of political thought, the two major platforms of the U.S. are not at both ends. They both lie somewhere in the middle. They are somewhere between totalitarianism and libertarianism; collectivism and objectivism.

Jakers- just so we are all clear...

choosing to emmigrate to another country to free yourself and your family from social, economic or political persecution is the same as being a drug dealer, in your view.

I look forward to intelligent discourse which yours is not. You are quite simply a name caller.

Respect for your fellow humans is a trait that vanishes quickly in the face of fear.

You choose(notice the sp) to denegrate people because of your perceived superiority. Even a mild tone of respect would lend credibility to your position.

There are many logical, well thought out and elloquently stated positions on this board that I do not agree with.

I do not view them as wrong. No one here has the answers only opinions and respect should be shown to those discussing the issue.

Holden is dead on, we can't shout "get off my property" just because we stole it first.

# 64 Goat

I didn't intend to put together a complete argument for government currency with my comment. It was meant as an example of an acceptable use for government. Monetary policy is a very complex issue, where as counterfeiting is only one of the threats to the value of a currency.

you make an interesting point about the competition of other currencies. I agree with you that the government having the ability to print as much paper money as they see fit has can be troubling. Historically there have been multiple currencies used in the U.S. these have ranged from bank notes created by individual banks, cities, and states, precious metals, agricultural products (grain, tobacco, corn). With multiple competing currencies you run into issues of acceptance(1). In an ideal world currency would be limited to the amount that supply could grow in a year. There is a need for broadly accepted currency mostly so that my money in Cincinnati is worth the same as it is in LA (2). It is unfortunate that government is capable of being short sited and doing things like printing excessive amounts of money. The best practice here would be to legally limit the amount of new money by an index related to the expansion of goods and services in the market.

(1)yes universal acceptance is an issue with governmental currencies as well. I have about about 40 euro that has been sitting in my wallet since may

(2) i know things have different costs in different parts of the country

E thanks i do that and keep everyone posted on how its goin tomorrows wod for me will be the 400 m/dips/hspu/pu i'll post time tomorrow also thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions appreciate it diffently helped

bingo -

I did not once reference the article, nor am I attempting to engage in policy debate. If I did not make that explicitly clear, I will do so now.

You encouraged me to call out specific commenters who were being callous, and that is what I did. I already explained that I am not trying to argue for or against immigration policy, I am simply asking other members of this community to have the common decency to not refer to undocumented immigrants as trash, even if they do so under the guise of a joke.

Again, in case anyone is unclear about this, I am not trying to engage people in policy debate, just please treat us like we are human beings.

bingo-
Perhaps Not-For-Profit would be clearer.

Take any Not-For-Profit biusiness model and apply it to clinics, hospitals, EMS, etc.

All money received above and beyond operating costs must be reinvested in the company for expanding services, improving or replacing equipment and the like.

If the motive for profit is emiminated than healthcare may become less cost prohibitive for so many Americans.

The profit does NOT simply go into

david

nice hand stand! glad to see you made it out of the great white north for some r&r.

sorry...

the profit does not simply leave the company and fall into the coffers of CEO's or investors.

m/28/205 ...
ran the fort worth, tx cowtown half marathon today! 4th time to run it with a PR 1:32. that's running 30+ miles a week. this year with strict main site wods, and SC endurance wods, not only can i perform a 3:28 FRAN, but today i ran 1:50:00! no mileage over a 5k in two months!

Alberto,

I don't think you are tearing the country down. It sounds like you've applied quite a bit of hard work to take advantage of everything the USA has to offer. And that is inspiring. Your success is part of what makes America great.

You've taken my joke out of context. Immigrants are a valuable component to American society but if we showed the same financial commitment to exporting Illegal aliens that we do to Illegal pharmacists it would be relatively easy to return them home.

I don't equate the law with morality. I equate the law to justice. Sometimes morality and justice are synonymous but not usually. I don't think my position is unreasonable.

I don't think there illegality is the defining characteristic of their lives but it is for today's discussion.

So I'm going to say this as succinctly as I can before I go on another rant.

1. We should enforce the current laws. This includes deporting.
2. I don't believe we will change the law if they aren't being enforced.
3. I don't like the process for becoming a legal immigrant now.
4. The process to become a legal immigrant should be streamlined. If we charged an annual stamp tax it could cover the administrative cost.
5. If immigrants are here legally it improves there position to be treated fairly by society. As long as they are illegal they will have to worry.
6. I believe in Free Markets and Free People. If peoples lives are bettered by coming to America and it betters America come on in.

What part of the above aren't you sure about Joe P?

Now back to my rants. I'm not ashamed to have this discourse with you Alberto and to say you are ashamed to have to defend your position or to be associated with people that you have to explain/defend your position to is a cop out and seriously weak.

Two random pet peeves.
1. Mexico defends there southern border with the Army. Not the National Guard. The shoot to kill Army. They are having none of it when it comes to illegals from
2. The US Coast Guard will chase down Cubans and tackle them in the surf to prevent them from planting foot on US terra firma and claiming asylum. If it was up to me we'd have a boat parked off Cuba to pick anyone up who wanted a ride back.

Now can I go back to making fun of people.

Does anyone know where I can get some pukie patches. I looked online and I just can't find em.

marcus #106, 108:

And yet, we have such "non-profits" as the Cleveland Clinic which pays its non-practicing top 5 physicians more than $1 Million/year each, and which generated some $3 or 400 MILLION of revenue in excess of expenses (which the rest of the world calls profit). How does being non-profit in this case make care less cost-prohibitive?

Apply it to clinics? Are you aware that "profit" at most clinics = income for physicians? At what level of revenue in excess of non-provider expenses would you consider such revenue "profit" and therefore a factor in making care cost-prohibitive?

Shall we extend this conversation and make it a comprehensive conversation about the economics of health care? What other players in the health care marketplace derive profit that you deem cost-prohibitive? What effect, positive and negative, would arise from making them "non-profit"? Does "expanding services" play a role in driving up the cost of health care?

'Tis a slippery slope ye stand atop...

For time:
21 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
18 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
15 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
12 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
9 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
6 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
3 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters

Time: 22:08

Jakers, just items 1-6. So, you love free markets, but you don't like illegal immigration? If you could make 10 times as much by going to Mexico illegally, would you go? When meat packing plants in Iowa get raided by the INS, who goes to jail? The managers and owners? Nope. That's right, the illegal immigrants making 6 bucks an hour. When employers are willing to accept consequences in the form of substantial fines or even a little jail time for hiring illegal immigrants, we won't have a problem. Period. Oh, one thing though, the cost of your zone meal of chicken and broccoli will jump up a bit.

jakers -

Let me make this clear:

I wasn't arguing with your views on immigration policy. Your joke, which you say I took out of context, was exactly what I have a problem with. Your policy views weren't the basis for my comments, I would have been just as offended if your argument had been that undocumented immigrants are heroes and we should all give them candy and college scholarships.

What I was trying to accomplish was to get you to see that we are people too, and that comments like yours equating them with garbage on the side of the road is incredibly offensive to me. You and others may think its funny, but that doesn't change the character of the comment. Are rape jokes or racist jokes or homophobic jokes, regardless of how funny one finds them, any less insulting or hurtful to victims of rape or prejudice based on skin color or sexual orientation?

I am not conveying some message out of some white liberal guilt, politically correct viewpoint that I imagine many of you would find distasteful. I am saying that your joke was, regardless of the fact that it was a joke, very offensive to me personally.

I am not ashamed of the political, economic, or legal opinions on the posters of these boards because I share some and disagree with others, but in the end they are the types of views I encounter in everyone I interact with daily. In addition, they are most always expressed in a very rational and respectful manner, such as Bingo's comments directed to me earlier. What I would be ashamed of is the kind of hateful jokes that degrade a group of millions of people who have done nothing to earn such scorn.

That was why I am trying to explain to you that undocumented immigrants are not some one-dimensional group of 'illegals,' and that they deserve as much respect as you would expect to be afforded to you or anyone else.

marcus at 2:59 PM

>>>>>choosing to emmigrate to another country to free yourself and your family from social, economic or political persecution is the same as being a drug dealer, in your view.

Hmmm. It's a blowhard move but to quote yourself but here goes, "I love immigrants. They make my life better. I despise drug use. It’s ruined my brothers lives." so nope not the same. There's just the same number of both.

>>>>I look forward to intelligent discourse which yours is not. You are quite simply a name caller.

Am not am not! I know you are but what am I? Oh you did call me something, yes here it is..."Ahhhh such a relief to see conservative thinkers refer to immigrants as aluminum cans on the side of the road. Classy!" You called me CLASSY. How dare you. No one calls me classy or makes me bleed my own blood. We are through professionally.

Maybe you had a different experience with aluminum cans that I did when you were a kid. I walked to the city pool everyday with a wagon so I could pick up cans. Then when I got to the pool I'd jump in the trash cans and the dumpsters to fish out all the cans I could. They paid for almost everything I wanted in life. Short of mining for gold I couldn't imagine anything more valuable when I was 12 than an aluminum can.

>>>>You choose(notice the sp) to denegrate people because of your perceived superiority. Even a mild tone of respect would lend credibility to your position.

So was that a mild tone of respect when you called me classy? Because I certainly didn't take it that way.

>>>>I do not view them as wrong. No one here has the answers only opinions and respect should be shown to those discussing the issue.

I do view them as wrong. But that doesn't mean I don't like them or respect them.

>>>>Holden is dead on, we can't shout "get off my property" just because we stole it first.

Actually we can. We are a sovereign country now.

bingo #112

it is a slope I enjoy toying with...

any model will have poor examples.

I work for a not-for-profit healthcare agency. Our board of directors is volunteer. Our director makes a reasonable salary.

I am paid fairly for what I do.

While other providers in our area are faltering, cutting positions, cutting hours and benefits we continue to grow.

It seems that often non-profit is just a guise so that a small group can reap huge benefits under the premise of social service.

Fair compensation for providers is an operating cost.

What is a fair wage for a doctor or nurse? I don't know. If healthcare was community oriented, with boards and advisors you may be able to combat some of those evils.

CFers I believe understand that there will be plenty of money in taking care of sick Americans.

healthcare reform will require far more than provider reform. There are insurance companies, personal injury lawyers, malpractice lawyers and personal responsibility for your own health that need to be discussed.

ahhhh that may be my footing giving way...

Joe P at 4:14 PM

Heck yes I'd be an illegal in another country for 10X the pay. I'd be a millionaire.
But I would also recognize that I was there illegally and if I got busted I wouldn't complain about it. I'd say Dang. Gotta sneak back in to keep making that jack.

I want immigrants. I want cheap chicken. I want cheap math from the quants. I don't want to work at a chicken plant or at statistical analysis. I want the laws to be changed. If you break every law to catch the devil what will protect you when you succeed?

Wrong title - it's 090228!

But thanks for everything brings :-)

jakers- me too!

unfortunately in many other countries you may not get the chance to sneak back in.

but... what if you fell in love, had kids forged a life...

as for your last... NOTHING, that's the price of catching the devil.

Jakers, what if being sent home or put in jail meant you couldn't feed your kids? Would you complain then? As long as our employers have up their signs that say "Help Wanted. No questions asked.", nothing is going to change. The folks down south have nothing to lose. You think we're going to spend hundreds of millions or billions per year to enforce our immigration laws? That just spreads the cost of subsidizing the agriculture, meat-packing, and building industries to all taxpayers. Let the people who hire the immigrants pay for it. They're the ones who are benefiting in terms of higher profits. They will then pass those costs on to us in the form of higher prices. Problem solved. Goodbye.

jakers- lol

stamp!stamp! finger point finger point.

i think i was typing my rant whilst you were doing the same.

rant on brother!

marcus #117:

The "not-for profit" hospitals and clinics in the U.S. that do not have "revenue in excess of expenses" are by and large either government (county) owned or owned by religious organizations. They fail to produce "revenues in excess of expenses" because they are CHARITABLE. Charitable does not equal non-profit. Unpaid volunteer work is charity.

Is your director the best individual available to perform that job? Would your agency be better, more effective, etc. if someone with skills that were superior to your director was at the helm? Would an individual who met that criteria view your present compensation model as being reasonable enough to take the position?

What do you mean by "provider reform"? Fair is a very loaded term. Please define "fair" with regards to physician/nurse compensation, or if unable to do that please identify to whom we would turn for such a defintion.

I believe that we will find common ground in what follows. What reform would you propose in the present health care insurance milieu and why? How would you reform our present medical malpractice environment, why, and what effect would you predict on "cost prohibitive" care?

{I appear to be channeling my inner Hari!}

Just started crossfit. created my own workout...

Row 3 mins
Dips, squats, swiss ball situps 21 reps
row 3 mins
15 reps ea
row 3 mins
9 reps ea
row 3 mins

23:44

next time will sub squats for jump squats. situps weren't hard. Dips were hard. The speedometer and everything else doesn't work on the row machine so I had to pick a time not distance.

I think we're witnessing a bunch of hurt feelings due to thin skin today. I agree that humane treatment is necessary, but it doesn't mean that it should destroy the ability to derive humor from the differences within human ethnic groups.

Alberto,

I can appreciate your stance. I myself was raised by a former illegal immigrant (Dad got to Guam from the Philippines and enlisted with fake papers!) married to a naturalized legal immigrant. (Dad met my German mom in Germany during the Vietnam War. Romantic, no?)

You're taking things way out of context. You're trying to force your opinion of illegal immigrants on someone else, and that's not cool. If you view what Jakers said as personally offensive, I don't see how you've gotten to the point of success you've achieved with the fragility of ego you're displaying.

Illegals don't care about America, that's why they always call Mexico home when I talk to them.

I'm a son of a legal mexican immigrant and I want illegal immigration to stop. Maybe I'm biased because I know REAL mexicans. They should be deported because they are felons, the arguement that we need psuedo-slave labor is over. The umemployment rate is nearly double digits and if all the illegals were gone unemployement would be cut almost in half. That National Review article is wrong, and that's why they lost.

Joe P at 4:52 PM

>>>>Jakers, what if being sent home or put in jail meant you couldn't feed your kids?

Feeding kids is one of those jobs I prefer to outsource. And if I’m making 10X the amount I make now I’m figuring I can go a couple of years in the pokey and someone back home will feed my kids. I wouldn’t take my family with me if I was there illegally. I’m there for the J-O-B. Not love, not site seeing $$$.

>>>>Would you complain then? As long as our employers have up their signs that say "Help Wanted. No questions asked.", nothing is going to change.

Nope, I still wouldn’t complain. I do a risk to benefit analysis before I make business decisions. Can I accept the worst case scenario? If I can’t I won’t do it.

>>>>The folks down south have nothing to lose.

So a stint in a US jail would be an improvement? I’M KIDDING. No more flames.

>>>>You think we're going to spend hundreds of millions or billions per year to enforce our immigration laws?

We spend billions of dollars on all kinds of silly crap. Why not this? End game I want the law changed.

>>>>That just spreads the cost of subsidizing the agriculture, meat-packing, and building industries to all taxpayers. Let the people who hire the immigrants pay for it. They're the ones who are benefiting in terms of higher profits. They will then pass those costs on to us in the form of higher prices. Problem solved. Goodbye.

Are you in the rendering business? Why not have the immigrants bear the cost. They are obviously willing to pay to be here.

Was I just dismissed?

Comment #109 - Posted by: mackey hermosillo

Mack, at 205#, you are FAST! I would label you a firebreather.

58/M/195 - CFWU, Shoulder Press WU
- S. Press 3x5; 110, 115, 120
- S.Press 15x95lbs
- 5 rounds for time; 5 Squat Clean Thrusters, 10 pullups - 13:20
- 36 Ring Dips (23-13)

bingo #123

I don't have the answers.
I can't define fair compensation.

My main suggestion would involve making personal responsibility mandatory for all citizens.

I'm pretty sure that would fix everything.;)

I'm not talking charity, I'm talking private, not for profit. Our board and directors do a fine job with an emphasis on serving the community. We have weathered many setbacks to the industry far better than some, not as well as others.

The board is volunteer with the responsibility of serving the community.

I understand that government funded healthcare doesn't work, especially in my area where the citizens won't fund libraries or law enforcement.

Perhaps compensating docs on how healthy they keep their patients vs treating them when they are ill.

Perhaps eliminating ALL insurance could drive down costs as well as rewards for litigation. But that would be incumbent on personal responsibility.

Perhaps deunionizing(watch out) would drive down overhead.

All we really need to do is agree on what is right, then get everybody to do that.

"With or without comprehensive immigration reform, Hispanics are the fastest-growing component of the evangelical movement, due to both immigration and higher-than-average fertility"

Higher than average fertility? Didn't know that was common scientific knowledge?

Dang, my head is spinning from perusing, sorry FRAT-ing the day's discourse. Nice and fairly civil debate brothers and sisters, I'm impressed as usual.

I wish I were qualified to weigh in, but I'm just a middle class white dude, husband and dad, drinking a beer on a Saturday night...trying to catch my breath before the next 50-ish hour work week kicks in. Was it the Pixies who sang: "where is my mind?"

Come on Lauren...where's that Sunday WOD?...

Jakers, no, I'm not in rendering, and I said goodbye because I was leaving. I guess we just need to get all those whiny illegal immigrants to stop complaining and teach them how to use EXCEL, and half of your issues will be resolved. What costs do you want the immigrants to bear? The border patrols? The immigration lawyers? The paper pushers? Why don't you address the basic point I'm making, which is that many employers _want_ them to come? Do you contest that? Don't be offended if I don't reply further.

Give it h3ll Gene, Malo espanol s'more, hold fast Herm sounds like your doing great! Lots of love for everyone else see youse manana!
Zone: Turned yesterday into my cheat day.

#73 Jakers

Only referring to it as a "witch hunt" in the context of a focused effort to ferret out illegals on a scale that requires a massive financial undertaking by the government.

Let the system slowly weed them out consistently in line with the law and perhaps there will be some progress.

I understand perfectly why many illegals make the trip. I've seen and continue to see the squalor that they live in. I don't blame them one bit. Hell, I'd do it too. They take the risk knowing that the chance of getting caught and anyone doing anything about it once they're here is low.

#103 Mike Morgan

I think the problem of universal acceptance is really not much of a problem. Gold weighs the same everywhere. Well, distance from the center of the Earth not-withstanding. Okay, gold has the same MASS everywhere. Any entity producing precious metal currency would need to provide documentation of the precious-metal-content of it's coin on demand, or risk having it's coin not be accepted. Naturally, if we are talking about private, for-profit producers, they would provide the documentation, and the weight of the coin would indicate the value.

But in our modern society, where most of the transactions in the world are done in credit or electronic transfers, the acceptance of a particular coin would be a moot point. The only real difference would be that banks would keep 100% reserves for their deposits, because really, who among us would do business with a bank which may not be able to produce our money on demand?

Playoff Beard #132

God Bless a Pixies reference on the MP!

>>>>Jakers, no, I'm not in rendering, and I said goodbye because I was leaving. I guess we just need to get all those whiny illegal immigrants to stop complaining and teach them how to use EXCEL, and half of your issues will be resolved. What costs do you want the immigrants to bear? The border patrols? The immigration lawyers? The paper pushers? Why don't you address the basic point I'm making, which is that many employers _want_ them to come? Do you contest that? Don't be offended if I don't reply further.

Well if EVER BODY would just stop whining I'd be mostly happy.

The costs that I want them to bear are the costs of their processing for immigrating. If we allow and encourage the to immigrate legally (the paper work is to onerous now) The borer patrols and immigration lawyers should be reduced. If we streamline the process there should be fewer paper pushers.
Employers want them to come. I want them to come. Everybody doing a home improvement project in AZ wants them to come. Are you happy? Will you address my point that I want them to come? I don't want them to be in the shadows, I want to make it easy for them to come. Enforcement doesn't preclude liberalization of immigration restrictions. It should lead to it.

Nah, I won't be offended. I mean calling me classy really hacked me off but just silence is ok.

Alberto, Aaron & Marcus,

Your not going to emote on your feelings to D. Gamez at 5:34 PM.

Goat,
Didn't you claim to not be college educated on the last rest day? I find this claim incredulous if I remember correctly.

Playoff Beard,
You obviously FRAT'd most of the discussion. I'm going to go pour the blood out of my shoes now.

Herm,
Thanks for the backup.

#137 Marcus:

LOL brother! That made my day :-)

Jakers:

Keep your chin up brother and ALWAYS stick with what you believe is right. To thine own self be true...

Never quit!

Holy smokes guys

where's Sunday's WOD? this must be the latest post ever

in regards to the above venom....let's all remember that it's cool to disagree openly and in public. there's plenty of places in the world where people can't

Raise a fence.
Let the illegals that are here stay with no voting rights until such time as they garner full citizenship.

This country is absolutely heading down the tubes. Alexander Tyler prophesied America:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until voters dicsover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasure, with the result that the democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy. The average age of the worlds great civilizations has been two hundred years. They have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from great courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back to bondage."

It's not hard to see where we're at in this spiral. Anyone who is still proud to have voted for this current administration without seeing the affects of he, Prince Henry and Princess Nancy would have were idiots. Sorry for those who disagree, but please don't blame it on Bush. This situation was a result of Clinton, Dobb, Franks and Waters, Community Reinvestment Act, ACORN, etc. Illegal immigrants glommed onto ACORN and CRA in a big way.

Time to research the best places in the world to live cuz this place ain't gonna be on that list.

Why is everybody getting touchy feely about this crap? If you are not legal you are illegal. Get out! Come back on Monday and fill out the paperwork to start the process. I feel blessed to have been born here,I'm sorry you weren't. People complain that we are the big self proclaimed police force of the world. The same people complain about how bad it is in other countries. Make up your mind. I'm inviting myself to your table in your house; my wife cannot cook. by the way, I need you to provide the food as well. Wash my plates too, you planned on cleaning the kitchen anyway. One more thing, take care of all my needs, my wife won't.

Maybe please and thank you will go a long way. Ask for permission, and put your shoulder to the wheel. Ive known some who have bled to earn that right, and that right was granted. My ancestors did the same, as I am certain yours have as well. Play the game by the rules, and quit acting like everybody is against you. It's time that we do what we say we'll do, or no one will ever take us serious, and eventually we will fall.

I don't have the answers, but I do know that should we ever decide to pull our heads out of the sand and actually call a spade a spade, we will be so much closer to necessary resolve, than we are as we walk down the path of pins and needles.

# 136 Goat

That all makes sense, I think I agree with the concept. There are logistical issues with physical goods transfer if there were to be gold to be held in separate banks, but that can be overcome with holdings in central vaults and having it cataloged and re-tagged upon transfer. The areas that I'm fuzzy on are who holds this physical gold, who guards, and how am I supposed to be short yen and long Krone if there arn't Yen and Krones to trade?

Bill M:

You summed it up. Somehow we have become idiots in the world of history.
As far as new places to live, come to the Ozarks. We still haven't learned of our right to vote.

I think America became great because Americans feared God, and because they feared Him, He blessed them.

Perhaps Bill forgot the part about illegals closing down emergency rooms because they use them as their family doctor for free and the hospitals can't sustain the loss.

Perhaps American citizens shouldn't be forced to pay for the education, medicine, and general degrading of the neighborhoods when a neverending tide of 3rd world people come in and throw trash on the sidewalk. Perhaps Bill could just Volunteer his salary towards his personal cause and let the rest of us do what we wish with our money.

Perhaps irresponsible people who don't believe in contraception should not be allowed into the country where they can increase poverty here as well. I don't mind getting rid of a few nannies bus boys etc if it means cleaning up the neighborhoods of drugs gangs and other degenerates that actually don't find employment but live on my dime.

Rangerboy

Where are you in the Ozarks? I grew up in Ft Smith, AR. But spent some time in West Plains, Mt. Home and Huntsville.

Active rest today was "Annie"

As rx 5:59.

I can't believe a bunch of Crossfitters, who's personal productivity (aka fitness) is directly related to how hard they work could ever condone someone coming here illegally and then sucking up all your hard work (aka productivity in the form of social programs paid with your tax money)

I bet you guys are the same ones that cheat on your times!

It's not like "oh we'll just let a few in and that's ok"

The situation is there is a NEVERENDING number of people who want to come here and live off other people. A bus boy doesn't make enough money to pay for his 3 anchor babies. I don't care how hardworking and nice he is.

As far as the "humanity" of being so "cold" in my opinions. I wonder why that doesn't go both ways. Why is Pablo allowed to come over and steal? This isn't a victimless crime. It may be indirectly stealing but when you come here illegally it IS stealing.

You bleeding hearts out there piss me off when you think you're allowed to decide it's ok for wave after wave of freeloaders to come here. They aren't just working hard and keeping to themselves. They're using up everyone's hard work also. That means you think you're entitled to my hard work too and that is morally wrong.

#138 jakers

Well, thank you for saying so. But it's the truth. I graduated high school and stopped there, except for a smattering of work-specific education.

#142

I've seen that quote before, and it's pretty interesting. I'm not a fan of democracy myself. Jefferson called it the "tyranny of the masses", because pretty much anything can be done to anyone so long as a majority approves.

For me a VERY limited republic is preferable. Limited in a way where human rights could never be legally violated. That's what the U.S. started as, a constitutional republic. It morphed into a democracy later, I think because most people don't see a difference between the two. You vote in both, right? Basically the law-makers just started ignoring the Constitution, and the people turned a blind eye.

#144 Mike Morgan

Your question strays into an area where I'm weak, but I'm thinking that trade in precious metal coinage would be much like the trade in precious metals is today, and it wouldn't matter much what the coinage was called. It would matter how much metal was in it. But one of the effects of having private enterprise manufacture currency in a free market environment would be the huge incentive for them to keep the currency stable. People would simply abandon an unreliable currency. This isn't really a hypothesis, it's happened.

http://mises.org/story/3072

also of interest: http://mises.org/story/3204

I have been in EMS for many years in an area with a large number seasonal agricultural workers. 99% of them do NOT abuse the healthcare system.

The vast majority of free loaders and others living off of our dimes are Americans.

The ER's here are clogged with uneducated white Americans who CHOOSE not to work hard and better their situation. It is these folks who damage and degrade the healthcare system in this area, not the immigrants, illegal or otherwise.

I understand that this is NOT the case everywhere, and is why a NATIONAL policy on immigration is so difficult to legislate.

Coltrane,

I think you misinterpreted my post. I may have missed writing a few more important details that you included but I agree with you 100%....and just as pissed off as you are!!!!

I'm going to sit the rest of this one out. I am feeling very irritable lately.

Quit reading the papers. That will help.

I am in the Springfield area

I fought golden gloves in Springfield for SERTOMA '86-88. Springfield was the big city for us.

Hey Marcus, no offense but, I'll take the documented evidence over your personal experience.

But just to put things into perspective assuming you aren't just making up data, the key word is "Americans" are clogging up the healthcare system.

And guess where I stand on this issue. I don't care what color they are, I'd rather pay for Americans than illegals. I don't like freeloading in any form but, I don't see why it's Americas duty to put the world on welfare.

Don't tell me these people pull their own weight when California alone spends billions of dollars on them.

Don't tell me they lower the cost of businesses because I know for a fact business owners are not that generous with the money they save on "migrational workers"

What a crock! What did the U.S. ever do before all these people came here with production????

Obviously that's a rhetorical question.

Go walk down the seedy sides of LA where gangsters are sitting around all day asking you in spanish if you want to buy an ID or threatening you esse. That's the direction everything is headed for. I don't care how many rags to riches stories there are about whatshisname becoming a doctor, the ratio does not even come close to making it worth it.

PS

If that gentleman is as hardworking and smart as he says he is, then logically he would immigrate here legally and pursue his studies. Therefore the argument that the only way for him to be here was for his parents or whoever to break the law is B.S.

Marcus, get real. Your personal "experience" does not come close to matching up with documented data. Where are these people having their anchor babies?

California alone spends billions of dollars every year on illegals.

The argument that we benefit from the low cost of labor is ridiculous as, business owners are simply not that generous. What oh what, did the U.S. do before all of these undocumented workers came here?

Finally, I might hate freeloaders but, I'd rather pay for an AMERICAN any day over an illegal. I don't care how nice and hardworking they are, they don't pull their own weight.

Travelling, 5k run as I am behind; 23:09
Treadmill 8 mph and some 8.1 mph

as Rx'd!

We are witnessing a holocaust of capitalism. Businesses are buying one way tickets to get on the government trains to "safety". The "stimulus bill" is the lefts final solution to their imagined problem of free market capitalists. Ultimately their plan will fail.
There are many who love freedom and if they ally against the socialists in 2012 freedom could prevail once again.

You know, my mood always seems to improve with a really hard metcon. Did one last night.

I really think Obama was structurally necessary. I can't say if we will or will not survive with our Constitutional protections intact, but the history of our Republic shows that our system is very resilient, our people--large flaws notwithstanding--are very resilient, and we tend to be able to dig ourselves out of holes we have created.

We saw what you get when Democrats run everything under Carter. It was a trainwreck. But the lesson was not learned. Reagan might well have still lost that election. And 28 years later, here we go again.

Now, with more than 3 stations to choose from, and almost infinite sources of information, the impact on the ordinary American of the stupidity being visited upon us will be much less likely to be lost on them.

You can act rich for a time with a Platinum Visa. But the bill comes due. I don't think most of this "structural investment" is really needed, any more than much of what Roosevelt did was needed. I do think that the economy will pick back up, since money will be flowing into it, but that that is money that at some future point will also have to flow back out of it to pay our bills.

I saw where money for some volcanic study was put in the bill that should have been $14 million, but for which $140 million was allocated. Hopefully Obama isn't creating his own private fund for "personal projects". That is certainly possible, given the dollars involved, and lack of supervision. Still, there are many Republicans there, to help keep an eye on things. And they have every reason to.

But returning to the topic of the day: why NOT build this fence? The top estimates are $8 billion, and we have already earmarked money like that to rebuild roads that probably don't need to be rebuilt (some of you may not know this, but the Transportation Dept. in almost every state is by far the most corrupt).

Basically, we need a carrot and a stick. The carrot is we accept as citizens those who are already here. This will likely be needed to get the negotiation through (i.e. to satisfy whiny liberals and do-gooders). The stick is that we take serious, effecive measures to prevent ANOTHER 12 million sneaking over. Build the wall, enact massive penalties for knowingly hiring illegals, and make them break rocks for six months if they get caught, BEFORE we send them back to Mexico (or wherever).

That should get everyone's attention.

Thinking about this, when Obama says he wants to spend money on "infrastructure", what he really means is "union jobs", and by extension "union votes". This is the sort of structured vote buying which keeps the Democratic Party in business. If the unions and/or the African American community ever realize the game is not being played in their actual long term interests, the Democrats will be done. With all the handouts, though, that is likely far down the road.

This returns, though, to the topic. None of the unions like undocumented workers. I have worked on job sites with a mix of Union, non-union, and Mexican labor, and the graffitti on the inside of the port-a-johns shows the animosity quite clearly. Unions think non-union, Mexican workers (documented, by the way) are lowering their wages, and non-union--Mexican and other alike--think the Unions are a bunch of whiners who do too little work for too much pay. By driving up construction costs, they cause less construction to be done.

How this plays into today's topic is that I think we can assume that the 12 million illegals here are not overly worried about the Mexican nation as a whole. As sociologists have shown, Mexico is a "low trust" nation, which means they care about their family and kin, and everyone else not so much.

Thus, were we to hermetically seal the border, those who are here would care about their family, but not the nation of Mexico as a whole. What they can reliably be expected to care about is their own interests. Any party that serves those interests, will get their votes.

And keep in mind too, that those who are here want to build better lives, and a constant influx of illegals who are more poor, more hungry, and more willing to work hard for less, hurts them too.

Thus, I see no reason Republicans could not get much of the Hispanic vote were we to combine the blanket amnesty with a Wall. The Wall, if we factor in the added costs of illegals in medical care, Justice system costs, schooling costs, and other sundry costs, would likely pay for itself in short order.

And it would also serve our valid national security interests.

Why not just make it so hard for employers who hire these people that it isn't worth it for them. Once they can't get work the will leave.

If the illegal parents of "citizen" children wish to take them with them they can or these children can become wards of their respective states.

It is impossible to round them up (not that this method shouldn't also be employed) but it isn't hard to have ICE checking on businesses like the EPA does.

The end goal is a stabilized system, which is sustainable. The current "system" is a mess. One contributing factor IS, in my view, the benefits that employers who hire illegals gain in terms of lower labor costs, no need to pay payroll taxes, no need to worry about safety or liability, and the willingness on the part of the illegals to work hard, all these things notwithstanding.

They COULD be penalized severely, but in point of fact they vote, and they lobby. And many of them are no doubt Republicans. Add to this the Democrats to give everyone everything any time they want it (unless you're rich and white), and you have a recipe for gridlock.

There always have to be negotiating quid pro quos. In this case, the status quo could be--more or less--ratified, so that business owners would get most of what they want. They would start having to pay payroll taxes, and other costs, but would also stop having to look behind their back, since they are already breaking the law, and just (apparently) preventing effective enforcement of the law.

This occurred to me the other day in another context, but politics is where you want a "10" worth of action. Your "opponent"/conegotiator also has a plan for a "10" worth of action. Success is when you both get a 5 worth of action, in the direction you want. Our system is designed to prevent rapid motion in one direction or another, since rapid progress in the wrong direction is retrogression. Better, then, to have done nothing. The Stimulus, for example, is retrogression.

Right now, the illegals win big, since they break the law, get away with it, get medical, birth rights for their children, and ultimately get all sorts of material advantages they did nothing to earn.

I will add that the idea I proposed above, to require that to become an American citizen the child of the parent must have been here legally, is worth considering too. This would, I think, necessitate a Constitutional Amendment.

Or possibly we could just use the Leftists' approach, and pack the court and let them legislate from the bench. That's the recourse of short-sighted buffoons, though, so on balance I would prefer the legal, Constitutional approach.

I thought about this today: it is really interesting that we don't read about Hispanic mafias. You have 12 million people who really can't go to the police. That is the sort of base from which mafias grow. They are the police when you can't call the police. "Our House", La Casa Nostra.

But other than Mexican and other drug cartels, you really don't read about this. I wonder why. Do they look after themselves? Do most American police look the other way? Is it not reported?

If I were a sociologist, this would be an interesting topic to research--specifically the possible cultural differences between Mexicans and Italians, Irish, Russians and Jews, all of whom DID have mafias.