November 4, 2008

Tuesday 081104

Rest Day


Enlarge image

"Queen Kong", Tamara Holmes, CrossFit Oakland, CrossFit Journal Preview - video [wmv] [mov]

"The Left's Big Blunder" - Zombietime

Post thoughts to comments.

Posted by lauren at November 4, 2008 4:13 PM

You rock Tami

Comment #1 - Posted by: Lau at November 3, 2008 6:44 PM

inspiring, great job tamera

Comment #2 - Posted by: Matt at November 3, 2008 6:46 PM

Way to represent Oaktown...good luck tomorrow McCain! I'm sure he's got a sub 30-min Fran left in him.

Comment #3 - Posted by: Mark at November 3, 2008 6:47 PM

HOLY CRAP Tamara! Way to KILL it.

Comment #4 - Posted by: Stavros- Diablo CrossFit at November 3, 2008 6:50 PM

Very Inspiring. What the hell does she eat????????

Comment #5 - Posted by: Steven@CrossFitAffliction at November 3, 2008 7:02 PM

Tami is the real deal! WOW!

Comment #6 - Posted by: MJJ at November 3, 2008 7:07 PM

Yes we can!

Comment #7 - Posted by: Joe at November 3, 2008 7:09 PM

Today's food for thought is yet another liberalbash-fest. Surprising.

After reading the article I now understand how the Republicans have never managed to win an election, including the last two Presidential elections.

Oh, wait.

Democrats win some, Republicans win some, and it has more to do with the American people's visceral reaction against whoever is in power when things get bad than with some evil media agenda by the left or religious plot by the right. Obama energizes young voters and McCain is stuck with the stigma of the Bush debacle, it's that simple.

Or maybe the media just made me write this.

Comment #8 - Posted by: Adam at November 3, 2008 7:09 PM

Watching that video makes me feel like a punk.
Keep pushing T. Take it to the next level. I salute you.

Comment #9 - Posted by: CAV at November 3, 2008 7:09 PM

That was awesome Tamera.... Any Cross Fit women looking for a cross fit boyfriend???

Comment #10 - Posted by: terrance gant CF Camp Pendleton at November 3, 2008 7:11 PM

Seriously? Can we stop with the political commentary already and just work out? I generally like the people who are attracted to Crossfit, and have never thought to discuss politics with them before now.

Why exploit our political differences to cause undue tension at our gyms, or even worse, amongst the ranks of our military personnel who regularly read your site and may have differing points of view.

All Crossfitters appreciate the workouts you give our bodies, but I prefer to get my mental workouts from other sources and keep the focus here on fitness.

Comment #11 - Posted by: RT at November 3, 2008 7:12 PM

To the comment above, I am not looking to spread my political opinion. But please do this.

Get out and VOTE!

Comment #12 - Posted by: Barrick 23 6'2" 185 at November 3, 2008 7:15 PM

Seriously? This article is hogwash.

There is no need to "prop up" this perception of Obama's support. Listen to the man speak. He isn't the same average-intelligence president we have seen for the past 8 years. People are actually excited about him. Many, many people I know are more excited than they have ever been.

Why is a pointless article like this being linked from the webpage anyways? What exactly are we supposed to discuss from this? This one person is telling us that we shouldn't believe the polls. That we shouldn't believe the testimonials. That we shouldn't believe our friends and family who are hopeful, and inspired. What exactly are we supposed to believe?

Comment #13 - Posted by: Jared at November 3, 2008 7:18 PM

Consider the possibility that Obama is the real deal. I'm willing to take that chance rather than continue the current trend.

Comment #14 - Posted by: theresa at November 3, 2008 7:21 PM

I was going to read that, but honestly I'm politically exhausted. I used to consider myself a die-hard leftist, but ever since I've joined the military I consider msyelf more towards the right. Maybe I'm just in the middle. I'm still left on a lot of stuff i.e. Pro choice, for gay marriage, pro legalization of marijuana (no candidate will even touch that subject anymore). Unfortunately, the focus right now is on the economy and Obama's "spread the wealth" is appealing to the masses who don't really have a full understand of anything else. Am I calling Obama followers ignorant? Not neccessarily, but a lot of the ignorant are going for Obama. He preaches change and all they know is that they don't like Bush, so change must be good, right? Here's my view, I don't want a commander-in-chief who has no first hand experience in how the military works. That's my main focus. Since usually that does not go hand-in-hand with any of my other views I have to make an unsettling choice.

so, i woke myself up at 0430 this morning (after having worked out at 2230 and gone to bed around 2330 last night) to work out this morning. I worked on my jump rope (i still suck) and I did some burpees and 45 of today's 150 pushups. Sadly I'm behind on the 50 days of 150 (did this get moved down to 100 or am I just overshooting? hm) so I'm only on day 3. That's what I get for taking off port days. oh well. I'm tired as hell, thanks crossfit!

Oh and to #11, I spent a while actually thinking hard about this, and I don't know how RT could be initials for either Coach or Lauren, so maybe you shouldn't try to say what can or cannot be posted for Rest Day topic. Thanks a million!

Comment #15 - Posted by: Sailor Erin at November 3, 2008 7:25 PM

Yeah T!
CFO what up.

Comment #16 - Posted by: moses at November 3, 2008 7:25 PM

That is a serious workout, Tamara! Incredible drive to finish.

Comment #17 - Posted by: amanda at November 3, 2008 7:28 PM

Obama has it in the bag! In fact, most democrats shouldn't bother waiting in those long lines and voting, since he's gonna win anyways, right? *wink, wink* There must be a better way to spend their time...

Comment #18 - Posted by: head at November 3, 2008 7:28 PM

Wow, talk about crying over spilled milk. 8 years of rubbish and you have to create conspiracy theories as to why the tide has turned? Neo-Cons have to look no further then the mirror. They had their chance, they lied to us, and they put us in a terrible position and now a new day is dawning. Turn the page. Next time I hope my fellow conservatives can field a real conservative candidate. It's about less government and less about religious wing dings.

Rest day as Rxd

Comment #19 - Posted by: will_G at November 3, 2008 7:30 PM

The content of this article will seem mighty irrelevant tomorrow evening.

Comment #20 - Posted by: Ben Edelen at November 3, 2008 7:31 PM

More of the same old liberal bashing. Vote no on 4 and no on 8 if you live in California. Crossfit has spread so much but with these one sided articles for "rest day" will hold it back. But hey, if that's what is wanted then that's what can be had.

Comment #21 - Posted by: Hugo at November 3, 2008 7:33 PM

tami, that is amazing. already my hero, so what next? see you at CFO!

Comment #22 - Posted by: Joe P at November 3, 2008 7:35 PM

@sailor erin

I'm not sure I won't change your mind, but Obama is not about "Spread the wealth." He is just about reversing Bush's tax cuts. Tax cuts that have helped make record deficits, even after it was supposed to all "trickle down." It would be nice to have a president who doesn't help the rich get richer, which is what Bush has done: Rob from the poor, give to the rich.

As far as a commander-in-chief without military experience, did you see this:,8599,1853025-1,00.html

This is the kind of leadership I am looking forward to. Someone who is thoughtful, and considers everything. It would be a nice change from the attitude of the neo-cons.
As far as not "knowing how the military works," I just don't see how someone twice as smart as bush, and probably 50% smarter than McCain could not figure this out. He is the best man for the job...

Comment #23 - Posted by: Jared at November 3, 2008 7:36 PM

Random question; but, does anyone know of any of the CF affiliates that sell Crossfit rash guards? I would really like to get one for BJJ and as an undershirt for running/workouts now that it's getting colder.


Comment #24 - Posted by: JPD - M/26/5'10"/170 at November 3, 2008 7:38 PM

Awesome, T! Way to represent!

Comment #25 - Posted by: Papa Brad at November 3, 2008 7:39 PM

Regarding Sailor Erin's post (#15) that I shouldn't comment:

I am a captain in the US Marine Corps infantry, and have commanded infantry Marines in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I assure you that I have spent enough months on patrol in foreign lands to have somewhat of an idea "how the military works."

Perhaps I choose to use my initials alone in the post because, as a leader of Marines, it is irresponsible and unnecessary for me to share my political viewpoints with my subordinates or a group of strangers on this site.

Regardless of our beliefs, races, or political leanings, Marines of all backgrounds are taught to come together to accomplish the mission. American politicians and society as a whole would do well to heed some of the same lessons and stop trying to criticize each other.

Comment #26 - Posted by: RT at November 3, 2008 7:42 PM

An article about a leftist media conspiracy posted by a clearly rightist website that has such a wide audience seems to me kind of odd.

I am not an american hence the reason why i wont enter the debate of your nation even tho it has a large impact on everyone around the planet.

I'm just going to ask a question. Is it me or am i the only one that doesnt see any political but more a rightist propagency?

If those rest days are really about stuff for thoughts and debates, why are you so afraid of showing articles once in a while about mistakes made by your leaders?

On the other hand, CROSSFIT4LIFE.

Comment #27 - Posted by: supertrix at November 3, 2008 7:45 PM


Although a new user, I respect CrossFit tremendously. As coaches and as a fitness program. However I strongly object to the selection of inflammatory and demeaning political content as the daily "food for thought" post.

Alienating a substantial portion of the site's users by linking the mission of CrossFit to insulting political editorials cheapens the message that you and the coaches are presenting.

Comment #28 - Posted by: expatstudent at November 3, 2008 7:50 PM

Has any one actually seen a document outlining their policies. (not their websites) I'm looking for a document that I could plug myself into and see how each candidate measures up for me.

As far as I've been able to tell what I'm looking for doesn't exist.

Comment #29 - Posted by: Justin Treptow at November 3, 2008 7:52 PM

guts, tenacity, and raw horsepower T! We love you!

Comment #30 - Posted by: Nicole Okumu at November 3, 2008 7:54 PM

damn Tamara killed 'kong'
i have just started doing sessions with CrossfitNQ in Townsville Aust, and no matter how fit and strong i think i am, i am always humbled by the WOD's no matter what they are.... But i'll be continueing to keep at it to help me with my BMX racing...

Comment #31 - Posted by: Graeme M in OZ at November 3, 2008 7:54 PM

I must admit I am offended by that piece of "journalism". I understand it was an op-ed work and that he does not claim his argument as absolute fact, but trying to use the most obvious and famous of scientific experiements to validate his own opinion of this campaaign is simply absurd. Yes I have already voted for Obama, I am not trying to disguise my own political views, but this author suggests that the tactics used by the frontrunners are unique to 2008. Again, incredibly stupid. We all know the media is liberal, thanks for pointing that out captain obvious, but the arguments proposed in this "academic" piece pitifully serve the purpose of a McCain supporter having difficulty facing reality.

If you do not like Barack Obama, his politics or his dog, you are completely entitled to your opinion and I urge you to vote for McCain tomorrow so this election can be as representative as elections should be, but please let the issues determine your vote and not random media.

Comment #32 - Posted by: JK at November 3, 2008 7:57 PM

Who is this USA#1 guy? This feels like an episode of the Twilight Zone or something.

Comment #33 - Posted by: theresa at November 3, 2008 7:59 PM

Its hard not to be selfish and Republican.

Comment #34 - Posted by: Hawk at November 3, 2008 8:02 PM

I will say what has been said a few times from people before: this is not your website. Quit complaining about what is posted on rest days. They have the freedom to say/post whatever they darn well please.

If something that is titled "The Left's Big Blunder" is something that might offend you...don't read it. Period. I don't watch MSNBC for this reason.

Wait for Wednesday for a workout, and post your time to the comments.

Comment #35 - Posted by: Phillip Y at November 3, 2008 8:03 PM


Rome lasted over 700 years. It is one of the most successful civilizations of history, and has influenced the world immensely.

Which civilization did better than them, exactly? What else did you want them to do? Invent jet travel?

Comment #36 - Posted by: Jared at November 3, 2008 8:06 PM


You are the sh...t! My second favorite part of the video is the shot of the banner above the clock. CFO Represent!

And USA#1, clean it up. You're better than that.

Comment #37 - Posted by: Belly Beard at November 3, 2008 8:08 PM


you are amazing as always.

i understand they're trying to keep this video from elizabeth in fear that she'd abdicate.

Comment #38 - Posted by: michael g at November 3, 2008 8:11 PM

Puh-leeze no more right wing whack job articles. There are so many great arguments back and forth yet totally whacked out stuff always seems to be first out the pipe.

Comment #39 - Posted by: Dr. Robotnik at November 3, 2008 8:11 PM

RT, honestly I don't think you really understood that only the last part of the comment was directed towards you. All I was saying about you was that you said to "keep the focus on fitness." Lauren and Coach run this site, Lauren posted a political rest day topic, so it's not really your place to say to keep talk away from politics.
That being said, I was not at all saying you don't know how the military works, I was saying that about Obama. As I said, only the last part was towards you. Whether or not you use your initials or full name, I don't really care. You can call yourself Major Payne for all I care, my only point was that you're not Coach or Lauren. End of story. I honestly don't care who you want to vote for, that's your perogative. Keep in mind that you're the one who doesn't want to talk politics.
Now, with all due respect, I honestly admire you for your service. I love all Marines, from grunts to aviators. I love them all. I'm sorry if somehow it seemed like my entire comment was directed towards you.

Comment #40 - Posted by: Sailor Erin at November 3, 2008 8:13 PM

Way to go Tamara you make feel like a complete wimp! Way to go Crossfit...Keep on doin what you're doin!

Comment #41 - Posted by: naim at November 3, 2008 8:13 PM


Thanks for posting the article. Great read.

To the haters: Once again, it's not your website. It's the Glassmans'. You are a guest. Don't come into someone else's house and tell them that the magazines they read are stupid, the wallpaper is ugly, and you hate the color of their couch.

They let you in their home no questions asked. You didn't give them a dime. They don't need your advice. Their program is doing just fine, and the "horrible political rest day articles" are only driving ignorant people away. That's fine.

If you don't like the article, offer something substantive to counter it. When you simply attack the article or the author, you sound like a bunch of fascist morons.

Thanks and Semper Fi.

Comment #42 - Posted by: Paul Szoldra "StrikeFO", CrossFit Camp Pendleton at November 3, 2008 8:14 PM

The article was not surprising since the Republicans no longer have an ideology to sell. All they can do is try to bring back McCarthyism and hope people are dumb enough to play along. Brought to you by the same people who claimed that tax cuts which doubled the national debt "paid for themselves."

The Republicans are done until they abandon their impractical and failed ideology and develop some more pragmatic solutions. Americans now realize the cost of being dumb and allowing themselves to be duped. The sooner the Republicans realize that, the sooner they will be allowed to govern again.

Comment #43 - Posted by: Joe at November 3, 2008 8:16 PM

Reference comment #45...Couldn't have said it better! Thank You!

Comment #44 - Posted by: lhales at November 3, 2008 8:16 PM

much needed rest for me. hope my foot is good to go for whatever coach brings on wednesday..



Comment #45 - Posted by: 27/m/170...Jordan at November 3, 2008 8:18 PM

Does anyone know anything about Nike Free running shoes? I've got a chance to get some at a really good price but I hate to buy them if their not any good. Any info would be appreciated.

Comment #46 - Posted by: rhinodog 48/m/6'1"/210 at November 3, 2008 8:18 PM

if only America would have taken more notice of Ron Paul the most qualified and pure AMERICAN to run for President of any generation that comes across this discussion board!

and damn Tamara, very impressive, your squat cleans look to get easier for you as you went!

Comment #47 - Posted by: kris kepler at November 3, 2008 8:20 PM

From the article: "Yes, a small subset of media outlets are identifiably conservative, but they are vastly outnumbered, both in sheer numbers and in influence, by the liberal media."

The "small subset" includes FOX NEWS and the WALLS STREET JOURNAL. Among others. Sheep.

Comment #48 - Posted by: John F at November 3, 2008 8:21 PM

Tamara, you are amazing! What an inspiration.

If ever you're in New York City, do stop by the Black Box, we'd love to have you.

Comment #49 - Posted by: Allison Bojarski, CFNYC at November 3, 2008 8:21 PM

"Homosexuality destroyed Rome!"

No, no it didn't. I don't see how homosexuality, not even widely practiced in Rome (maybe you're thinking of ancient Greek pederasty?) had anything to do with the economic and military downfall of the Roman Empire.

I'd really like your facts, with references to primary sources, if you can.

If you can't, then maybe you should keep your mouth shut about the lifestyles of other people. Its the American way.

Comment #50 - Posted by: Crazyguywithasword at November 3, 2008 8:23 PM

I have a pair of the Nike Free's myself. I love them. They are very light and comfortable.

Comment #51 - Posted by: Paul Szoldra "StrikeFO", CrossFit Camp Pendleton at November 3, 2008 8:32 PM

Cute article. Why have the liberals, who clearly control the media, education system, financial systems, the public debates on race and gender, and the general political dialogue, failed to have any say whatsoever in the federal government in the last 8 years? Maybe because it's all in the heads of these conservative conspiracy theorist whackos. You can superficially invoke a couple classic social psychology ideas from your Psych 101 class 20 years ago, but you can't throw that in with what Rush said this morning about liberals and claim that the Liberal Machine is some kind of self-destructive juggernaut. I'd love to post an exhaustive point by point rebuttal, but I outdid the author's total research time in the time it took to read the article.

Comment #52 - Posted by: Richard at November 3, 2008 8:33 PM

I have never once commented on the political diatribes linked from the page, and though I generally disagree with their content, I certainly do not resent them. I rather enjoy reading postulations contrary to my own.

That said, the argument presented in this article, which dubiously lacks author attribution, is ridiculous. I was in a large, southern university during the 2004 Bush v. Kerry election--hardly a bastion of liberalism relative to other schools--and, still, the general sentiment was extremely pro-Kerry. If this was the pool (college students) from which grunt pollsters were drawn during that election (as, per the article, they are being drawn in this election), and these pollsters exhibited a decided Kerry bias, poll numbers, which revealed themselves as incredibly accurate on election day, showing a consistent Bush lead would be hard to explain.

The article started interestingly enough, and I think well represents the "everyone is a journalist/publicist" phenomenon spawned by blogging, but it quickly deteriorated from there. If this article representative of the cogency of arguments made by McCain supporters, he has reason to be worried tomorrow.

Comment #53 - Posted by: quallnow at November 3, 2008 8:37 PM

Every rest day article as I read (assuming I have time to read it) I wonder 'why did Coach and Lauren pick this one?' Usually the answer illuminates one of a few themes - inferiority of govt for solving human problems/meeting human needs, the inevitability of govt's infringement upon liberty in any effort to create a positive outcome, perhaps a theme is the inevitability that govt's efforts at problem solving today create the negative eventualities that justify additional govt interventions tomorrow. Other themes include trends in business, trends in fitness, elements of business that highlight why CrossFit is what it is or does what it does, and/or the politicization of science and negative impact of same.

This one is interesting in that it's part of a small but focused group of media pieces that points out that the perception created by repetition of the same theme ad nauseum is compelling - but not always.

There's more there, but my answer for tonight is that Coach and Lauren posted this one purely for the contrarian, interesting perspective. I look forward to reading this again after the voting is over.

One comment on the article's content - it didn't take a lot of strategy to dampen enthusiasm for McCain. As much as I respect his courage, tenacity and drive, I've never been able to hold any enthusiasm for him as a politician, nor has anyone I know. I think the bizarre sequence in which the primaries are executed finally bit the GOP hard. It's a freakishly dumb way to pick a national candidate to allow reps in a few small states to make the selection.

As for Obama's support, it's beyond my ability to perceive how anyone can put up with his BS. I could easier believe that it's not as rabid as has been communicated by the media.

The whole situation was brought to mind tonight when I went out to recover my goofy labrador that escaped the back yard. I called her, showed her the bone she always wants, she ran to get the bone, she traded her liberty for the bone ... which she consumed in less time than it takes for me to type this. We've gone through this routine before, my lab and the US electorate. I view any enthusiasm for either party's candidates as nothing more than a sweet, lovable, dog trading a bone for her liberty. Perhaps she doesn't really value her liberty, can't conceptualize it, doesn't want to take responsibility for it. She's a dog, she has an excuse. I cannot believe the big rush the rest of us are in to trade our liberty for the sweet, tasty lies of the political parties.


Comment #54 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 074 210 44 yoa at November 3, 2008 8:38 PM

To #34 USA#1...I've never posted on the forum before, but reading yours I had to.

Funny thing, no scholar who has studied the fall of Rome mentions "the perverts" as the ones that brought the Empire down.

They do mention, however, poor economic policies (stretching as far back as the founding of Rome), destabilization of the military due to the influx of mercenaries, and the general decadence and lethargy among the Roman citizenry, as well as a slew of others...but no perverts. Maybe you're just reading different books?

And in case anyone would like references: Edward Gibbon, Henri Pirenne, J. B. Bury are just a few.

Comment #55 - Posted by: GT2 at November 3, 2008 8:39 PM

Is anyone as concerned as I am about the fact that the U.S. media only presents two choices for the presidential election?

I'm baffled as to why all the sheep (including some that are rather intelligent) restrict themselves to the Big Two.

Comment #56 - Posted by: EvilTwit at November 3, 2008 8:40 PM

Here is the Economist's endorsement article. I respect The Economist more than any other I read. It is fair, libertarian leaning, well researched, and articulate.

I highly recommend the read:

That sums up why I'm voting for who I'm voting for.

Comment #57 - Posted by: George at November 3, 2008 8:41 PM


Comment #58 - Posted by: George at November 3, 2008 8:41 PM

This article, like many others, tends to assume only two people are running. My advice is to vote for Ralph Nader and do your part to save America from corporate-caused doom.

Comment #59 - Posted by: Matthew at November 3, 2008 8:44 PM

Yeah! Go Tamara!

Total inspiration.

Comment #60 - Posted by: Leigh at November 3, 2008 8:53 PM

Crossfit or Politics, the same principle applies: core then extremities.

Comment #61 - Posted by: NaXx - M/32/5'6/1682- CrossFit Hampton Roads at November 3, 2008 8:54 PM

#45 Paul Szoldra
Very well said. Never met the Glassman's in person but I have very deep respect for them.

Comment #62 - Posted by: Gina at November 3, 2008 8:58 PM

Good lord, this article is what passes for intellectual discussion at CrossFit these days?

Oh, wait, I forgot--the wing-nut right hates all those intellectual 'elites' with their fancy arguments based on "logic" and "evidence."

Shoddy reasoning and unfounded assumptions must be the "Real America" way of writing. You deserve Sarah Palin.

This election has finally brought to light the true belief system of the Republican Party: hatred and bigotry.

Comment #63 - Posted by: BlueMike at November 3, 2008 9:00 PM

It's amazing how every day Maobama can make a speech and discuss his position on issues, and make him self sound like a moderate Democrat. However every single facet of the mans life before his Presidential campaign was FAR left to say the least. That is fact drawn from his own speeches, and interviews, not some conservative hear say. I guess he just changed his life long opinions when he decided to run for President. The article is true, the media elects people to public office. Americans follow every behind the scenes detail of American Idol, but think they know who a politician is by watching a debate, and the evening news. Anybody who does 5 minutes of digging and forgets his public speaking ability can see how dangerous he is. However they don't cause they are media driven drooling sheep. I almost hope Obama wins tomorrow, so that way in 2012 and for the next 10 elections we won't have to worry about a Democrat holding office, due to how incredibly destroyed the country will be. Bottom up economies don't work Barry. If they did, Cuba and Mexico would be dominating world powers.

Comment #64 - Posted by: Greg at November 3, 2008 9:00 PM

Just a question to the other crossfitters out there.

Does anyone else have bad pains in their elbow after a muscle up workout? Whenever I do more than ten muscle ups my elbow kills me for about 3 days. Just wondering if I am the only one having this issue or if it is a common occurance.

"Keep on keepin on, life's a garden dig it!"

Comment #65 - Posted by: Richard at November 3, 2008 9:00 PM

Once the election is over, the glittering generalities of rhetoric and style will mean nothing. Everything will depend on performance in facing huge challenges, domestic and foreign.

Performance is where Barack Obama has nothing to show for his political career, either in Illinois or in Washington.

Policies that he proposes under the banner of "change" are almost all policies that have been tried repeatedly in other countries— and failed repeatedly in other countries.

Comment #66 - Posted by: TS at November 3, 2008 9:02 PM

I find this theory of our elections interesting.

It explains Obama's lead much more convincingly than today's posted article.

Comment #67 - Posted by: MB at November 3, 2008 9:03 PM

God I can't wait for this election to be over so these boards can go back to what this website is about. Crossfit.

Comment #68 - Posted by: Richard at November 3, 2008 9:05 PM

Go McCain!
Thanks to all who serve!

Comment #69 - Posted by: Ian C at November 3, 2008 9:11 PM

Tami, you are amazing. It is a privilege to work out with you.

Comment #70 - Posted by: TomC at November 3, 2008 9:13 PM

Tami's legit!

Obama '08!

Comment #71 - Posted by: Jonathan at November 3, 2008 9:13 PM

Tamara way to go, that is STRONG!

Obama = Pelosi = Reid much more than McCain = Bush
Is it an accident that Pelosi and Reid are mysteriously missing from the daily reporting?

Comment #72 - Posted by: dan colson at November 3, 2008 9:24 PM

If anyone has doubts regarding the findings in the article please remember 4 years ago the exit polls were all leaning toward Kerry. I rest my case.

Considering all the obstacles McCain is dealing with it is still a close race in the popular vote (the electoral vote is not too close). Wars, Not really loved Prez Bush, the Ga Ga Obama effect, and of course the big one, The Economy. And really none of these should be blamed on McCain.

But the Rep have to live in the bed they made. Prez Bush really should not have been nominated in 2000. His experience and his not the best public speaking ability kind of down played the office of the Presidency. Granted, I do like the man but he was an easy target to pick on which helped the opposition.

And now Obama. His experience is exactly what? Presidency material? He can talk, usually in circles, but it does sound nice.

So we wind up with the reincarnation of Carter. What the heck. A lot of people will be sad when Prez Obama does not part the sea.

And of course all the people who want change will vote for their worthless incumbents in Congress. Just like all the worst cities in the US, the same party runs New Orleans, Detroit, Newark, etc. It goes for worthless school district and their school boards too. But no one changes them. You got me!

Comment #73 - Posted by: trace at November 3, 2008 9:24 PM

The non-stop right wing propaganda posted on rest days is almost enough to turn one off of crossfit. Strangers who view the site will assume we're all right wing nutters. I don't want to be associated with that. i want to go to the web site, and get directions for a great work out.

on the rest days? post politics. but how about some balance? post an article about a scientific discovery, or about the history of Rome (to correct USA#1). Those would all be interesting, intellectual things to think about on a rest day.

Posting blatant rightist conspiracy theories and one-sided views serves only to divide the forum and frustrate the readers.

Comment #74 - Posted by: at November 3, 2008 9:26 PM

#67 Richard,

You're not alone. I too have experienced elbow pain from muscle-ups. In my case, I believe they are irritating the ulnar nerve. Sometimes, if I really do too many muscle-ups, the pain is accompanied by ulnar nerve palsy similar to what is shown here.

Comment #75 - Posted by: MB at November 3, 2008 9:28 PM

Go Obama!

Comment #76 - Posted by: Chet at November 3, 2008 9:28 PM

Reply to #77

Thanks for the info and not a political speal.

Comment #77 - Posted by: Richard at November 3, 2008 9:33 PM

The first paragraph of the article is spot on. The media has unabashedly displayed its far left position during this campaign so all trust in reporting is gone, save for a few including IBD and WSJ. This left leaning media pushes an agenda for the masses to accept Socialism whether you know it or not. This country has thrived on freedom for the individual to obtain whatever heights his/her talents can generate, not what can be given out by government handout or decree. My vote goes to allow individuals to make their decisions and goals in life and reap that benefit. Crossfit is a perfect example - we are all enjoying a top level fitness program that brings success, much to the annoyance and wonder from on-lookers at the Globo-Gyms who don't understand what we're doing. Imagine if this site was shut down and the gov't dictates a new exercise program that fits the masses. Big gov't doesn't gets in the way.

Comment #78 - Posted by: Ron M at November 3, 2008 9:34 PM

To any one complaining about the political commentary on REST DAYS, they're REST DAYS. You choose to participate on the message board. You know that when you see the main page and thus are in no way required to read any of the Op-Ed in order to keep up with the workouts.

So keep it to yourselves if you want to knock people who enjoy going back and forth at each others on REST DAYS.

Comment #79 - Posted by: RJM at November 3, 2008 9:35 PM

RJM #81

Take your own advice then. If people want to complain about people discussing politics on their day off then so be it.

Comment #80 - Posted by: Richard at November 3, 2008 9:38 PM

What a timely article. I love the way it draws out all the insecurities in our community while leaving some great documentation for Tuesday's aftermath. I can't wait for the weeping and gnashing of teeth. "But they told us we had it in the bag for favorite actress said he was the best!!!"

Comment #81 - Posted by: John in ABQ at November 3, 2008 9:38 PM

Tamara is a great athlete and a wonderful person. It's about time she got some exposure to the community.

Comment #82 - Posted by: saulj at November 3, 2008 9:42 PM

#75 trace:

The 2004 polls certainly did *not* show Kerry ahead:

Like it or not, these polls, in aggregate, are pretty accurate.

Comment #83 - Posted by: quallnow at November 3, 2008 9:47 PM

strong sh*t T!!! pop tarts for the win.

Comment #84 - Posted by: Steven at November 3, 2008 9:50 PM

I just attended the Gymnastic Cert up here in Portland, OR and it was amazing! Jeff Tucker did a great job during the two days he was here and I keep wanting to practice all the stuff he taught us. I know all of our other trainers up here who attended are as appreciative as I am to Tuck for what he has given us to work with and we are all really excited to see the increases in performances in ourselves and our member. ATTEND IT AS SOON AT YOU CAN!

Comment #85 - Posted by: Nick Temple(CrossfitHEL) at November 3, 2008 9:55 PM

McCain = 3 sets of 10, 20 minutes on a treadmill
Obama = Crossfit

Don't knock it till you try it. It might make us stronger. Our old routine is not working. I am excited to try something new.

Comment #86 - Posted by: Jonathan Stevens at November 3, 2008 10:04 PM

The praise and accolades that some of you are placing on Obama are unbelievable!!! Obama is the democratic candidate - NOT the second coming of Jesus Christ! He is not the Messiah. He is just as infallible as Bush, Clinton, even McCain.

Comment #87 - Posted by: Diablo at November 3, 2008 10:05 PM

as a Canadian watching your election I have been shocked by the most obvious liberal slant of the media, but even more by their strong denial of it

as Canadians our media is mainly liberal but at least everyone knows it, the American media seems to treat the people like sheep, it seems insulting to me

if you cannot see the bias you are blinded by your own ideology in my opinion

vote how you want but admit democracy is somewhat marred by the media manipulation

Comment #88 - Posted by: nolan Clark at November 3, 2008 10:07 PM

Your not folling anyone USA#1 or should I say Sarah Palin! AH HA you didn't think I knew that did ya.

Comment #89 - Posted by: WP at November 3, 2008 10:11 PM

To the poster that talks about right wing conspiracies - I hear that a certain political party is stating that 9-11 was a right wing government conspiracy. Tell that to the following people or their family members:
Sgt. John Coughlin
Sgt. Michael Curtin *
P.O. John D'Allara *
P.O. Vincent Danz *
P.O. Jerome Dominguez
P.O. Stephen P. Driscoll *
P.O. Mark Ellis *
P.O. Robert Fazio *
Sgt. Rodney Gillis
P.O. Ronald Kloepfer
P.O. Thomas Langone
P.O. James Leahy *
P.O. Brian McDonnell
P.O. John Perry *
P.O. Glen Pettit *
Det. Claude Richards *
Sgt. Timothy Roy *
P.O. Moira Smith *
P.O. Ramon Suarez *
P.O. Paul Talty
P.O. Santos Valentin
Det. Joseph Vigiano*
P.O. Walter Weaver

Comment #90 - Posted by: Diablo at November 3, 2008 10:12 PM

Tami, I am in awe. Thanks for being you and gracing CFO with your presence. You are truly our Queen...

Comment #91 - Posted by: Robyn - CFO at November 3, 2008 10:35 PM

I wonder how many of you losers that are all offended by the article actually read it. The whole point of it was to prove that Obama's strategy is flawed. I don't see why you guys think it's so insulting. Is it that crazy to suggest that the polls and the media distort reality. I thought it was interesting and if you disagree you should discuss why. Most of you have just complained about the rest day topics or made childish remarks.

The asch effect will probably apply to this board. Most of the first comments are outraged at the article and pro Obama. Lots of conformers. But later you scroll down and see a few people that agree with the article. I wouldn't be surprised if we look back on this comment board and it ends up being split down the middle.

And the retarded comments by usa#1 are obviously made by someone that wants to make conservatives sound dumb. And it worked cuz it got so many responses and fired people up.

The important thing is how it will play out tomorrow. And If Mccain wins I'm sure some people will be in disbeleif. It must be a setup. Everyone on tv said obama was winning. Then at least you can reread this article and blame it on something right?

Crossfit is all about open discussion so it's efficacy can be challenged and try to be disproved. And the rest day topic is the same way. So if you don't like it don't go to the site on rest days.

Semper fi

Comment #92 - Posted by: devildog at November 3, 2008 10:35 PM

For every so-called scientist who claims that they are using facts, logic, or science in making their decision tomorrow, be sure to note that 76 different Nobel laureates have endorsed Obama. Coach's fitness science is the best humanity has to offer, but his area of expertise is clearly does not extend into political science.

Comment #93 - Posted by: Ben Edelen at November 3, 2008 10:48 PM




my back hurts

and i dont know where my 1st post went

Comment #94 - Posted by: devildog at November 3, 2008 10:56 PM

*Sighs* Another rest day, another factually inaccurate tale by a conservative blogger.

I'll speak to what I know. His assertion that pollsters are somehow poorly trained and rife with bias (which, in turn, creates a central leg for his thesis to stand on) couldn't be farther from the truth.

People who make calls on behalf of Gallup, or who go to homes for the National Election Study (NES) are anything but untrained and biased.

In fact, millions of dollars are spent to train pollsters to ensure they are able to ask the same question with the same inflection and tone time and time again. They are given zero leeway to answer questions off-script that the respondent may ask to ensure that every respondent is given precisely the same information and precisely the same questions. It might be boring to most of us, but it certainly isn't unskilled and it most definitely is designed to remove precisely the bias that he asserts occurs. I don't know what poll center this guy worked for in college, but it wasn't Gallup.

The cost of conducting any one of these national polls is simply mind-boggling, and can run in the hundreds of thousands. I believe the cost PER respondent in the NES is somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000 (although, I admit, it's been a few years since I read about it so I could be wrong). These polls aren't some whimsical, random collection of liberal media-types bent on furthering their agenda. There are far cheaper and far more effective ways to do that.

Comment #95 - Posted by: Ian Jacobs at November 3, 2008 10:57 PM

Comment #75 - trace, Obama isn't similar to Jimmy Carter. The economic problems we faced in the 70s were resolved by Paul Volker, not Ronald Reagan. Reagan enacted policies which hurt the economy. Fortunately, Volker is advising Obama and we should get the country back on track.

People need to stop repeating things they hear on radio and TV and actually look at the data and understand what has happened to this country in the past 27 years.

Comment #96 - Posted by: Joe at November 3, 2008 11:03 PM

#35, its not hard to be a hippie and democratic either, but king/queen kong sure looks hard

#68 has got the right idea

Comment #97 - Posted by: JJ at November 3, 2008 11:17 PM

What a worthless read. Maybe the Republicans are losing because they have held the reigns of this country for the 10 of 12 years. And what do we have to show for it? Just a little list off the top of my head...
We have our men and women fighting in two wars. The first and most important was forgotten entirely by the administration. As such it has been mishandled so terribly that some say we may never be able to win it unless we poor an ungodly amount of money and blood into it.
The second war was waged on the basis of blatant lies viewed at its worst or willful ignorance at its best. Similar to Afghanistan, it was also ridiculously mismanaged for the first 3 or 4 years.
Bush's ever-increasing constitutional violations through the use of signing statements, executive orders and procedural law.
The fact that spending has increased to levels never before seen as well as the expansion of government under a ruling "conservative" party.
The fact that the middle class has been continually shrinking while the richest percentage of Americans continue to own more and more of America's wealth.
And lastly, the latest financial crisis.
Now let's get to Senator McCain. Initially he was considered an expert on foreign affairs. Yet he didn't know the difference between Shia and Sunni. He though Pakistan bordered Iraq. He continually referred to the Czech Republic and Slovakia as "Czechoslovakia." He referred to Putin as president of Russia and was apparently unaware that Spain is a democratic ally.
When you combine that with his admitted lack of education and intellect on economics, you don't have much to go on. Well, i guess you could look at his voting record, but given that he has virtually reinvented himself from what he stood for in 2000 to what he stands for now, I'm not so sure even he would support his own voting record.
Lastly, you have Sara Palin. A choice obviously made out of political expediency and whom is wholly unqualified to fill the office of VP, and deserves to be nowhere near the office of the POTUS.

The republican party needs to get its ass kicked so they can think about what it means to be conservative again. They need to learn to keep divisive religious politics out of their agenda which has, unfortunately, hijacked the party.

Or they can cry themselves a pity party, not learn anything, and continue to believe that they lost due to the evil liberal media bias (an issue which I take issue with to some extent, but will leave that for another rant)

Comment #98 - Posted by: Jared at November 3, 2008 11:25 PM

Go Tami! You rock! CFO represent!

Comment #99 - Posted by: Sam L at November 3, 2008 11:44 PM

I was going to give my opinion a rest day, to everyones disappointment im sure :), but seeing how the "cant we just workout, oh yeah obama rules" people are out in force it seems I have no choice. Im going to take a breather, calm down, come back and post. stand by for some mind blowing.

Comment #100 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 3, 2008 11:48 PM

Ok starting off the article speaks the truth its undeniable that people will seek to conform especially when afraid of confrontation. Ive seen it.

secondly, Im from washington state my wife and I live in tacoma. we welcome political debate (she much more articulate than me) however it seems to (and I hate to generalize) be impossible to have a debate of ideas about liberals and obama. It reminds me of when I was a kid and I went to church and asked how they knew that someone didnt just make up the bible. When you question obama you seem to be questioning god and you get personally attacked immediatly. My wifes car was keyed because of a McCain magnet. She was almost fired from her job as a nanny when she said she was a conservate she had to convince the family she worked for that they had changed her mind and she was now voting for obama.

thirdly, what the the number one reason everyone says they are voting for obama? "he speaks so well and hes going to bring change". Im not impressed by a silver tounge and empty words. My dad used to tell me that "people will say all kinds of sh*t but its there actions that count" I cant think of tons of stuff McCain has done for this country and very little obama has done.

finally, i dont care who you vote for at the polls but I swear to god this rediculing of people who oppose obama, as if hes the second coming, is going to come full circle. You can call me and my wife a racist or intolerant or stupid but Im not changing my mind I know which line matches which and I wont be harassed or mocked for seeing whats really there, a well spoken marxist socialist.

Comment #101 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 12:32 AM

# 11 RT,

Quite clearly you have zilch understanding of CrossFit's "Rest Day" discussion board. Like most liberals, Love it or Leave It.

I'm surprised Dem's and Liberals even workout, they should want the Government to workout for them. If you vote Dem, your not a REAL Cf'er.

CrossFit IS McCain/Palin baby!!

Comment #102 - Posted by: SheepDawg007 at November 4, 2008 12:39 AM

You´re boring. Come up with new slogans.

Interesting article if it wasn´t for the over-obvious pro-McCain.

The rest of the world is crossing thumbs for Obama! GL!!

Comment #103 - Posted by: Peter at November 4, 2008 12:47 AM

Comment #100 - I'm wondering why you support McCain. I have just the opposite experience that you have. People who support Obama have no problem justifying it. McCain supporters have no reason to support McCain and only seem to want to vote against Obama because he is a "socialist, muslim, who pals around with terrorists."

The truth is taht McCain's plan to cut government spending will make the recession worse. Right now we need an increase in government spending and a tax cut for people who have little disposable income. It would be great to give a tax cut to everyone but right now we're going to build a huge deficit to get out of the recession. So it's asking too much. Taxes on people with a lot of disposable income is going to have to go up a little, to 39%. Under Nixon, the top marginal rate was 71%. Under Eisenhower, it was 91%. Eisenhower certainly was no socialist.

Comment #104 - Posted by: Joe at November 4, 2008 12:59 AM

After a draining election, I had looked forward to something along the lines of "Vote AMRAP ;)" or, "Volunteer for your candidate, post times to comments."

In response to the article given, I'd only submit that anyone who has time and energy to debate this clearly hasn't done enough for his or her chosen candidate.

So. As is the tradition on this board, I'm posting the WOD I am personally substituting for the rest day Rx:

Volunteer 30 min for your chosen candidate. AMRAP in 12 hours.

Comment #105 - Posted by: Chris Scott at November 4, 2008 1:08 AM

#103 joe

The policies you are supporting are by defination socialist under the guise of compashion and "trying to fix the ecomomy". There is few things the government can do without screwing it up. Its bureacracy that now matter how well intentioned will screw up whatever it touches. The only government agency that works the way its suppose to is the oldest agency of any government, the military.

appling this to the economy, you say that there will be some taxing of those with dispoable income. first of all people disposing of their disposable income fuels the economy it creates jobs.

secondly, this will drastically effect small businesses. It is friggin hard to be a small business nowadays with all the government intervention. On paper it may look like a person with a small business is making tons of money but in reality after paying employees and keeping up with taxes 9 out of 10 small businesses go down the crapper.

It will only be the large corporations with their ability to access government funds and their army of cleaver accountants that will survive the increase in taxes and regualtion. say goodbye to the american small business. Say hello to Walmart and McDonalds.

Lastly, more government regulation not matter how well intentioned leads to more government control over private entities eventually leading to complete control hello national socalism.

In closing "a government that governs least governs best" -Thoreau

Comment #106 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 1:30 AM

apologize for the gramatical/spelling errors on last post accidently hit post before I checked it over.

Comment #107 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 1:42 AM

Obama will win and I suspect in four years time America won't look much different from Tony Blairs 'New Labour' Britain - Tony was full of rhetoric about a 'third way' - the best of socialism and capitalism and all kinds of other left sounding freebies. It was all nonsense to get elected eg they turned out to be less regulatory than the Conservatives on finance.
Just look at both US parties on the financial handout. Theres damn all difference in 'practice' between the two I think we will find.

It's the Ron Paul's and the Ralph Nader's who are more likely to make real societal alterations if they were ever elected which they won't ever be.

Comment #108 - Posted by: BrightonGeoff at November 4, 2008 2:10 AM

Comment #101 - Posted by: SheepDawg007

What? I hope that's a joke.

Comment #109 - Posted by: George at November 4, 2008 2:26 AM

I made my WOD a time of prayer and fasting. I'm praying that our nation will be the "city on a hill," and a "beacon of hope" to the world that our forefathers envisioned. Our Founder's clearly intended that "In God We Trust."

I'm in my 4th deployment, and have a pretty good knowledge of defense issues. Here's hoping and praying that John McCain is our next Commander-In-Chief. He clearly is the candidate with the credentials and courage for that incredibly important responsibility. Barak Obama won't even acknowledge that the surge is working (and I can tell you first-hand that it IS), and his few visits to the troops are little more than a photo-op.

Comment #110 - Posted by: Mark at November 4, 2008 2:34 AM

I love rest days. Each one saves me over $500 bucks. I can read the articles and convince myself again never to spend a dime on crossfit.

The article is almost laughable. "Wait, the GOP might not win. That can't be because of an extremely unpopular incumbent president or a poorly run and lackluster campaign ... it has to be .. the media! the pollsters!"

The glassmans can post whatever they want, of course, but I don't have to support crossfit. My collegiate workouts from 20 years ago look so similar to crossfit that I wonder why people think it's new or unique. Circuits & intervals. People have only been doing those forever.

Comment #111 - Posted by: bob-o at November 4, 2008 2:41 AM

Complaints about the media from the side that watches Fox News. Is that supposed to be satire? Because I am laughing.

Ya know, that's fine, I suppose, that there's a political bias here; the country was founded on people yelling at each other about their government. But things like "If you're a Dem, you aren't a REAL CF'er" strike me as silly. Beyond the logical fallacy of the whole thing, why try and drive away roughly half the population of the country from this thing? It makes little sense any way you think about it.

Comment #112 - Posted by: L at November 4, 2008 3:13 AM

How disappointing that HQ would post an extremely conservative article on Election Day. I normally don't read anything written my anonymous authors and couldn't make it to the end of that conservative diatribe.
I enjoyed Third Policeman's response that I'll take the liberty to post here...
Of course, there is a critical flaw in your basic premise - you assume that your opinions and your perceptions are solid, uncontested reality. Your assertions are nothing but, and to attempt to build a logical argument on the basis of a tenuous reality means you fail.

Your first example says it all, it’s based on the premise that Sarah Palin “won” her debate against Joe Biden. Perhaps she did, but based on what criteria? If it was the number of times the candidates winked, then she did win. If it was their skill at inserting campaign slogans into every answer, ditto. If it was on the basis of providing a comprehensible answer to questions . . . I would say that the reality is that whether you agree with him or not, Biden conveyed understandable ideas about policies, and Palin speaks in gibberish that uses English words but completely defies meaning and comprehension. The debate itself is an example of real-world issues vs. meta-issues, and you prefer meta-Palin. Odd, then, that you would whine so that the meta is not going your way. Here’s a clue as to why; the only men who find Sarah Palin sexually attractive are coddled, ignorant, whining losers with mommy issues and a sense of entitlement. Strong, successful, confident, secure men do not find her attractive. They’re going to vote Obama.

Comment #113 - Posted by: Christin Street at November 4, 2008 3:27 AM


Thruster 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 reps


Now I can do todays WOD as Rx'd (LOL)

Comment #114 - Posted by: Keith M at November 4, 2008 3:28 AM

It's OK to criticize a candidate or his/her positions, statements, or actions.

It's not OK to presume that news media filter these so strongly that they affect your mind--unless you are paranoid.

Comment #115 - Posted by: Stephen at November 4, 2008 3:36 AM

#110 L

to answer you rhetorical question "why drive half the population of the country away from this thing?" the articles are to encourage the debate so rather than complain about the articles and say CF is one-sided, make a point and defend it with some facts. what the hell is wrong with debating? it shouldnt be like "This place is stupid, Im taking my ball and going home".

Comment #116 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 3:38 AM

#108, Mark... Thanks for your service! My husband is also on his 4th deployment, you guys are true heros! So God Bless and Thanks again!

So, as far as rest day goes... in bodybuilding its a cardio day, can I apply this same line of thinking to CF? Of should I save my stregth for tomorrows WOD?

As far as the Vote today goes... has everyone forgotten 3rd party? Just curious!

Thanks guys!

Comment #117 - Posted by: Brenda at November 4, 2008 3:44 AM

Will read through comments later.

Tamara, it was a pleasure to be your judge for the C&J at the Games. What an impressive performance. Best wishes as you go forward in Crossfit and in life.


Comment #118 - Posted by: bingo at November 4, 2008 3:50 AM

Wow big time numbers. I want to ask how many of you really think that clean position is technically sound and should be taught. With the scrutiny crossfit continues to get escalating maybe it is time to be more considerate of the safety of those who may watch this. The hips are to high, chest is down toward the floor and that is the beginning of a back extension with an upright row. Fortunately this individual is trained to lift that way, but if someone watches this who is untrained and tries to mimick that movement underload they will get hurt. Some food for thought.

Comment #119 - Posted by: shane at November 4, 2008 4:01 AM

Have just read Coach Glassmans comments regarding Gym Jones/Mark Twight from Oct 26th 2008.

Interesting that the 'Warning' article on the Gym Jones website has been updated in recent months.

Comment #120 - Posted by: Liam McKarry at November 4, 2008 4:03 AM

I find it insulting to read an article (I only read about 1/2 of it) that implies I cannot think for myself.....and even more irritating is that as a huge fan of crossfit I find yet another political commentary where it should not be. I come to crossfir for exercise and fitness--not political rhetoric!! ENOUGH!! GEEEEZZZZ!!!!

Comment #121 - Posted by: The Keithinator at November 4, 2008 4:06 AM

Wow, a "vast LEFT wing conspiracy" ! How absurd and condescending.

Way to spread the hate around !

Comment #122 - Posted by: Greg/48/70"/205/3/17/08 at November 4, 2008 4:21 AM

With all the left and right back and forth above I just wanted to share this quote with you all on Election Day. Although the quote is from a somewhat unlikely source I think it is very appropriate considering the current state of our great nation.

It reinforces my belief that no matter the outcome of this election, no matter what crisis we face, now or in the future, the courageous and innovative people of the United States of America will not only survive but thrive.

“What made America great was her ability to transform her own dream into hope for all mankind. America did not tell the millions of men and women who came from every country in the world and who – with their hands, their intelligence and their heart – built the greatest nation in the world: ‘Come, and everything will be given to you.’ She said: ‘Come, and the only limits to what you’ll be able to achieve will be your own courage and your own talent.’ ”

— Nicolas Sarkozy,
President of France,
speaking to the U.S. Congress,
November 2007

Now, if you haven’t already, go vote!

Comment #123 - Posted by: mikef at November 4, 2008 4:45 AM

Great work Tamara. Your epic performance is not getting its full props ONLY because your workout appeared on what will be a historic day.

Prediction that 95% of New York City votes for Obama-Biden today, and I am thrilled to be one of them.

The Democrats produced two of the best and brightest as candidates today. The Republicans have put themselves in a bad place - a party driven by an unholy combination of the greed of the wealthiest 1% of Americans, the hypocrisy and zeal of the religious right and the rumor mongering and appeals to false emotional issues (Obama is a socialist, a secret Muslim, hid his birth certificate because he was not born in America, etc.) that attracts America's uneducated and weak minded.

And as a bonus, we get a black American President. Another milestone for America. When we recall that there were still lynchings and miscegeny laws on the books 40 or so years ago, Senator Obama's ascendency gives America another great example of America's transformative power and ability to continually improve.

We now hope he and Lunch Pail Joe can lead us in turning the page on the 7 year nightmare that was "Bush's America."

We have two wars, record deficits, record trade deficits, a neglected infrastructure, zero progress on government support for green energy, gross incompetence at the highest levels as shown by FEMA's response to Katrina, non-existant environmental stewardship, how many members of the Republican leadership were indicted in the last 7 years (Libby, Ney, DeLay, Stevens, Cunningham, Abramhoff, etc.) or caught in scandal (Larry Craig, Vito Fossella, etc.), a tax code designed to unduly favor the wealthiest Americans (don't you think that Warren Buffett's statements that he has never paid less taxes in his life and there is something wrong with that telling?), a leadership that condones use of the North Korean field manual to interrogate prisoners, the national embarrassment of Guantanamo, abu ghraib and the not so secret CIA prisons in eastern europe, OBL celebrated his SEVENTH anniversay of a horrific act against my city and country and our supposed singularly focused president hasn't yet gotten his man, and the massive deregulation of Wall Street that lead to this economic meltdown.

What good have we gotten from our Republican led government other than I pay less taxes than I did under Reagan, Bush I and Clinton? Of course, these low taxes are contributing to record deficits so whether this is "good" is debatable at best.

I do not want to hand my son, future children and grandchildren a hobbled America like the one President Bush has created. We need a change and talented leadership to put us back on teh right course-- Vote Obama-Biden 2008!

Comment #124 - Posted by: Kyle NYC at November 4, 2008 4:49 AM

REST DAY: if you need to exercise, go exercise your right to vote.

After visiting the great country of Russia many times, in the grand adoption of my son, I was brought to the knowledge of how free we are in this country. Don't get me wrong, I really loved my travels in Russia: the country is awash in history, culture and politics. Absolutely fascinating. BUT.....I think those of us who reside in, and are citizens of, the good ole US of A take for granted how good we have it...

Like it or not, we are free to speak, free to travel, free to choose where we live, and so much more. We don't get tossed into prison for reading the Bible or the Koran, and we don't get our a$$es beat for showing our ankles, or when our kids do the wrong thing.

Go EXERCISE your freedoms. Appreciate the fact that we can CHOOSE who "runs" our country (ok, to a certain extent, as we do have that electoral college), that we can SAY what we want about either candidate and not get thrown into prison for our different views.

That;s blood sugar is crashing, so if I ramble on unintelligibly, that's why. gotta go eat

"Smiles, everybody, smiles!"

Comment #125 - Posted by: MDMelissa at November 4, 2008 4:56 AM

Hey, not to change the topic or anything but I just read a post on the Gym Jones site where Twight goes on a rant bashing Crossfit (despite it being the foundation of his "program.") and lists his "champions" who basically seem like a bunch of MMA coaches and athletes. I was just curious about who we have in our ranks that are nationally known athlete. I know there was one Olympic Rower and a few NFL players. Anyone else?

Comment #126 - Posted by: ED_Doc at November 4, 2008 5:01 AM

#53 Apollo

Thanks Paul. It is this sentiment I was trying to communicate in one of my posts last week, but the dog bone analogy you used was a far better way to convey it.

I'm saddened by our electoral process, the candidates we've been given to choose from and the fact that people actually think anything is going to change. Congress still has the power-brokers to deal with, and even Clinton had troubles with a Dem-controlled Congress following his '92 election. Does anyone out there recall that his "balanced budget amendment" passed by a single vote?
Do people truly think Pelosi and Reid are going to hand the reigns over to Obama? No, it's still all about currying favor, backbiting, political agendas and power. is a powerful, liberal faction that Obama will need to appease. Our friend Jared (earlier posts) seems to think of Obama as some sort of salvation, when in fact he's nothing more than a statesmen for the DNC, albeit a good one. Others point to McCain as the true leader, but he's an angry old man whose unyielding opinions would cause nothing but friction. Change? Nothing has changed, regardless of the chanting.

Several months ago, someone posted the following thought regarding the two candidates: we get who we deserve." It's a sad commentary, but true nonetheless.

Comment #127 - Posted by: Mark at November 4, 2008 5:21 AM

I'm new top the Crossfit notation. What is the rest interval between sets when the reps are hyphenated? When are the rest intervals replaced with rope skipping? Any good places to look for FAQ like these?


Comment #128 - Posted by: Jeff at November 4, 2008 5:25 AM

holy smokes, tamara! that is just awesome.

Comment #129 - Posted by: ec at November 4, 2008 5:26 AM

1. Tamara, that was amazing. Maybe we should have the asswhooping guy challenge her?

2. I did not read the political article, I know where I stand but I hate arguing politics, its futile. That being said I believe it should not be on this site, but like Sailor Eric said, Im not the creator of this site, so I can either shutup or leave. But isnt this supposed to be a community with fitness as our goal?

3. I love crossfit, I love this community. But if it is used as an instrument for a different purpose or agenda, then your right, I should just shut up and fade away (its strange how politics and religion have that effect on people). But I don't want that to happen :(

Comment #130 - Posted by: Eric Duechle at November 4, 2008 5:32 AM

Interestingly enough, we had the chief polling scientist (an absurd title, but whatever) from the Gallup organization talk to my "persuasion and propaganda" course yesterday. Obviously he had some biases, but Gallup's methodologies are clearly much less helter-skelter than that article would suggest, and it's telling that they've been wrong in ONE election since 1936--Dewey vs. Truman, when they stopped polling 1 week out.

That said, if you really want an accurate spread, check out It's a UK betting site that takes bets on anything. Last election they got the national results correct AND all 50 states. Accuracy is a must when money is on the line.

Comment #131 - Posted by: Ben Shechet at November 4, 2008 5:34 AM

What is the benefit of posting political (usually right of center) articles/musings? The only thing I see this doing is fixing a false notion in someone's head that Crossfit is an extreme and dangerous place to be.

I come here to work out and learn the craft. So, PLEASE! STOP!

Comment #132 - Posted by: Johnny at November 4, 2008 5:39 AM

McCain's selection of Palin as VP nominee was the beginning of the end for him. If they thought that she would get Senator Clinton's supporters, they were sadly mistaken. Clinton is an established, polished politician, and Palin, well, she can see Russia from her house...

Comment #133 - Posted by: theresa at November 4, 2008 5:44 AM

A laughable article showing the lengths some people will go in an attempt to rationalise their paranoia. If Obama's campaign were losing there would be articles extolling the herd-like mentality of the churches coercing people into voting McCain.

In politics, like no other arena, do you get people willing to spend so much time writing spin to excuse their failures.

So just think people. Think that the information you're basing your current choice on might be spin. Think that it might be less valuable than a mote of dust floating in the sunlight. Find out for yourself what's right and what isn't, think it all through and make your choice. Good luck.

Comment #134 - Posted by: DozyBen at November 4, 2008 5:45 AM

Sorry guys have f-ed up the world for long enough. Been a real great 8 years...hate to say good riddance.

But THANK GOD the Republicans are leaving the White House! GOOD RIDDANCE!

THANK GOD! I mean, if we are going to privatize gains and socialize losses in the financial industry, at least have a Democrat in office.


Comment #135 - Posted by: bret kleefuss at November 4, 2008 5:49 AM

#42 you hit the nail on the head! You don't like what the Glassmans bring to the table, go eat somewhere else!

Comment #136 - Posted by: jbear 34/m/72"225 at November 4, 2008 5:52 AM

Whatever our differences are, I plead with all Californians to vote NO on Prop 8. As a proud crossfitter I am sprinting to the polls today.

Comment #137 - Posted by: Jonna at November 4, 2008 5:53 AM

Shame on you Coach and Lauren for posting that article on Election Day. That's the best you can do to encourage people to vote?

Comment #138 - Posted by: alr at November 4, 2008 5:57 AM

No time to read all the comments. Looks like much the usual.

With respect to the article, I find it unnecessary as anything other than an encouragement to conservatives to vote. As a group, we always show up at the polls in much higher proportions than Democrats. People who don't like to work, don't like to vote. Rainy days ALWAYS favor Republicans. Regrettably, weather is good around here.

More generally, I have come recently around to the gradual realization that what we are seeing this year is very literally the flowering of 30 years of silent work by the radicals of the 60's.

What is the point of Political Correctness? Generating consistent and reflexive responses to any number of questions. What is the value of that? Pavlovian voting. Obama is black. Surely he deserves our vote, and anyone who claims otherwise is racist.

For that reason, anyone who is concerned that he seems to have had warm relations with a man--Bill Ayers--who plotted to overthrow our government, implement concentration camps, and murder in cold blood 25 million Americans, is a racist.

It is racist to point out that he sat in the front rows of a racist church for 20 years.

It is racist to point out that one of the primary formative influences in his life--Frank Davis--was a Communist and admitted child molester.

It is racist to point out that his entire campaign is nothing other than the principles of Saul "The Red" Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals" writ large. I've read the book. This is absolutely by the book. Alinsky was a Marxist.

It is racist to point out that raising taxes by the amount he wants to is going to be economically damaging in the extreme. This is absolutely the wrong time to attack the rich.

And what is the point of moral relativism? It is to prevent rational, principle based discussions. We cannot claim moral superiority to ANY nation in the world. Our values are not worth defending. We should, in fact, apologize to the world for EVER acting as if any of our ideas of liberty or human rights were in any way superior to the tribal autocracies and empires that otherwise describe the entire history of the human race, outside of White Male Europe.

The end goal of the left--that of creating a nation of zombies who NEED to be led, who DEMAND to be led--has been realized. When nothing is right or wrong, when the code of conduct is based solely on a conformist desire not to give offense, someone has to provide the synchronizing signals. That man is Obama. As a literal African-American, who has lived overseas as a Muslim, he embodies diversity, and will thus be a fitting focus of a cult of personality.

My only hope is that our democracy survives four years, so we can ride him out on a pole, following he inevitable debacle his ill-founded ideological dogmatism will foster.

For those who assume our democracy is perennial, and uncorruptiblel, I would encourage you first to read some history--say of the rise of any totalitarian regime in Europe--then read "Deep Survival", by Lawrence Gonzalez. He points out that most great failures begin with the idea that patterns remain constant, and that what has always been, need always be.

Comment #139 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 5:57 AM

long vote lines = squats/ burpees/double unders

Comment #140 - Posted by: Dave at November 4, 2008 6:01 AM

I still don't see why articles like that are posted here; if there was an article to balance that one out it'd be a different story, but divisivness sort of butchers the camaraderie CrossFit claims to foster, does it not?

Comment #141 - Posted by: Brian S. at November 4, 2008 6:06 AM

Where can I get a clock like the one in the video?

Comment #142 - Posted by: andy P 41 YOA 6'3" 200 lb old guy at November 4, 2008 6:09 AM

If you want to know who'd make the better president, just look at who our military members support vs. who the rest of the world (France, all of Europe)support. Last I heard Obama was up 80% to 6% over McCain over there... Scary

Comment #143 - Posted by: jefe at November 4, 2008 6:14 AM

Switch the names Obama and McCain in the article, and it becomes more or less true.

Comment #144 - Posted by: reality check at November 4, 2008 6:16 AM

Right wing conspiracy theory at best. This anonymous blog posting wouldn't even be discussed on Art Bell's program.

The polls are pointing in a direction that supports the fact that the majority of people in this Country are sick of the BS lies fed to them over the past 8 years. Bush/Cheney, and the Neo-cons had a run. They had total control of Congress as well as the Executive. What did we get? 911, a catastrophic mortgage crisis, a busted economy, a dragged out war based on lies, thousands of dead soldiers, a divided nation, abuse of power, a loss of rights, it just goes on and on...

I don't know if the goal of posting this kind of right wing dross is just to stimulate conversation, or if it's part of an agenda to inform from a particular perspective. Dialog is good either way as far as I'm concerned, and regardless of reasoning, it's Coach's right to do so. I just wish real journalism would be posted as opposed to anonymous blog rantings...

Comment #145 - Posted by: Hoss at November 4, 2008 6:24 AM

"the only men who find Sarah Palin sexually attractive are coddled, ignorant, whining losers with mommy issues and a sense of entitlement. Strong, successful, confident, secure men do not find her attractive. They’re going to vote Obama."

Your response was good discussion and not hypocritical until you dipped down to this type of insult. At that point, your credibility flys out the window.

Comment #146 - Posted by: Phillip Y at November 4, 2008 6:26 AM


See, that is the main thing. The idea of freedom of speech: it is their intellectual property (the website) and thus they can do what they want.

Comment #147 - Posted by: Phillip Y at November 4, 2008 6:28 AM

#141 "reality check" ???? I ponder from whence you gather your reality.

Comment #148 - Posted by: jbear 34/m/72"225 at November 4, 2008 6:28 AM

I wish people wouldn't make posts like Szoldra's #42 and jbear's #133. Rest Day posts are there to ignite discussion, and this article was clearly written and posted to be inflammatory. The "if you don't like it, leave" mentality is against the communal spirit that has made CrossFit what it is.

Do you also believe that people who don't appreciate the extreme conspiracy theory presented here have no place in CrossFit? Or that my trashing this particular article means that I am disrespecting CrossFit or the Glassmans? I like a fair percentage of the non-fitness stuff they post. My uncle emails me the most god awful fascist conservative garbage on a daily basis, and I am totally honest in my replies that they are garbage. But when I see him at Thanksgiving, I'll give him a big hug because he's more to me than a political person.

I appreciate the fact that they posted it and let people tear each other apart over it, because that's the real spirit of democracy.

Comment #149 - Posted by: Richard at November 4, 2008 6:29 AM

#142 Hoss

That is a justified response, thank you. You are not complaining about the "slant" of the postings, which is a mistake to many are committing.

Dialog like this addresses the issue, not complains/threatens to leave because the issue was even brought up.

Comment #150 - Posted by: Phillip Y at November 4, 2008 6:31 AM

#135 alr

Shame on you for discouraging the Glassmans from exercising their liberty.

Comment #151 - Posted by: Phillip Y at November 4, 2008 6:34 AM

Wow, liberal-biased media?! Wait a minute, I knew that. Plain and simple like the article said, 90% of the people reporting are liberals (I'd say more than that), so it's going to be biased the vast majority of the time.

Comment #152 - Posted by: Muffin at November 4, 2008 6:37 AM

2nd day of cross fit! So far i'm liking todays workout the best :)

Comment #153 - Posted by: Jimmy at November 4, 2008 6:38 AM

#99 SheepDawg

Real CF'ers are Republican, Democratic, Independent, [insert affiliation here]. Real CF'ers can/will/should disagree on many different things such as politics; but will share one passion: giving it all on the WOD.

Comment #154 - Posted by: Phillip Y at November 4, 2008 6:40 AM

That is without a doubt the stupidest article I have ever seen posted on this site.

Comment #155 - Posted by: MacDaddy M/39/5'10"/185 at November 4, 2008 6:43 AM


Zombie, the author of the article, I believe is a woman, not a man.

Also, while you're at her site, be sure to check out her photojournalistic efforts of various protests / political events in the Bay Area.

Comment #156 - Posted by: steeliekid 175 67" 40 at November 4, 2008 6:45 AM

#136 Barry

Well said brother

Comment #157 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 6:45 AM

Here's an idea... the pupose of the articles is to generate discussion. I didn't see an endorsement from the website. Just a request for discussion. Said discussion has been generated: Mission accomplished.

Re: the article;

Is it possible that there is a perceived "liberal bias" in the media because unbiased facts support the liberal viewpoint?

Counting an editorial piece as a biased media outlet doesn't make sense. I see this complaint a lot on editorial blogs and forums. It's an editorial... it's supposed to be biased one way or the other. If the BBC (or CNN or Fox News or MSNBC) posts one authors blog and it's biased, that doesn't mean the next guys blog isn't biased the other way. Furthermore, being a blog it shouldn't be counted as a news story... it's an editorial. Learn the difference.

However, when it comes to actual articles with objective reporting of the facts, just because those facts don't support conservative views, doesn't mean there's a liberal bias. It just means the facts support the liberal case. And that's all there is to it. (This is of course assuming that the facts are presented in their entirety and objectively.)

I like to think you could reread this post with "conservative" replacing the word "liberal" throughout, and it would still make sense.

Comment #158 - Posted by: S Chaffe at November 4, 2008 6:55 AM

HELP...Can we put the politics aside for second and lend a guy a hand?

I'm new top the Crossfit notation. What is the rest interval between sets when the reps are hyphenated? When are the rest intervals replaced with rope skipping? Any good places to look for FAQ like these?


Comment #159 - Posted by: Jeff at November 4, 2008 6:58 AM

Vote for whoever the f#@! you want - this is a free country last time I checked. Both sides are able to manipulate those who allow themselves to be manipulated and fail to think for themselves. I don't believe the campaigns, the media, nor this article give the American voter the benefit of doubt he or she deserves...or maybe they do.

More pullups, less politics please.

Comment #160 - Posted by: Trig Paxon at November 4, 2008 7:07 AM

Comment #154 - Posted by: Jeff

If the WOD isn't for time, then the rest is however long you want it to be. Try to keep it short enough to not cool down but long enough to recover.

Comment #161 - Posted by: George at November 4, 2008 7:07 AM

I'm all about the political rest day discussions, but today's article was disappointing to say the least. As far as I have been able to tell for the 3+ years I have been doing WODs and reading this site regularly, CrossFit's philosophy embraces personal responsibility and a dogged refusal to make excuses. Why then are we being subjected to several thousand words of childish whining about how the media and pollsters are screwing over Senator McCain and Governor Palin by manipulating unsuspecting American voters?

Yeah, there's bias in the media. So's a free country and with the ever-growing role of the internet in public discourse, there has never been such a diverse range of opinions and analyses freely available for the American people's consumption. If voters are bamboozled by implicit left-wing bias in pollsters or the "meta-campaign" or whatever, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT. We are not living in Stalin's USSR where you had to risk everything in order to find a samizdat leaflet so you could read an opinion that differed from the mainstream media's. Every imaginable point of view is out there for people to read and ponder, from the far left to the far right, from Noam Chomsky to Ted Nugent. There's no excuse for being an uninformed voter, and the crybabies who whine about the unfairness of the mainstream media need to take a big chill pill and be grateful for the freedoms they and every other American enjoy.

Comment #162 - Posted by: Dan M at November 4, 2008 7:09 AM

Don't really care what they post-its not gonna change who I'm voting for!

Comment #163 - Posted by: Tom at November 4, 2008 7:11 AM

If anyone believes anything said by the media, especially in events that prove to be life altering, you simply don't get it.

Most of these corporations are controlled by the same people. What gets reported is based on their agenda alone.

Or maybe you can explain to me how happened? Or the fact that BBC conveniently "lost" this footage shortage afterwards.

For the people that don't understand what's going on in the video, BBC is reporting on the collapse of building 7....only in their live feed, you can plainly see the building still standing. Maybe they have a crystal ball?

The information is out there for people who aren't too afraid to look. The fact that most people are "voting for change" seems pretty ignorant when the vast majority of people don't even grasp what it is that needs changing.

Comment #164 - Posted by: Jake Di Vita at November 4, 2008 7:27 AM


Gives who they've voted and what they've said on the issues. No editorializing.

Comment #165 - Posted by: Tim at November 4, 2008 7:28 AM

#153 S Chaffe: "Is it possible that there is a perceived "liberal bias" in the media because unbiased facts support the liberal viewpoint?"

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.

Comment #166 - Posted by: Nick 24/M/205 at November 4, 2008 7:31 AM

My thoughts are that regardless of my personal opinion of the articles presented I don't understand the reason that political commentary is included on the front page of an otherwise fantasitic website.

If you wish to provoke discussion, please keep it relevant... there is plenty of controversial material on excercise, sports, performance-enhancing drugs, stretching, nutrition, even some semi-political things where fitness relates to firefighting, the military, police, their regimens, standards, and funding.

Keep the discussion relevant to the website. Posting articles like this only serves to increase the unfortunate media perception that CF is a community of crazies who follow coach like he's god... I sincerely hope that does not itself become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Comment #167 - Posted by: anon at November 4, 2008 7:32 AM

OMG. Tamara, that was actually SCARY. All props to you and your incredible strength. What do you do? Eat? How BIG are you? In the video, you look like you're over six feet tall. What's your BW? How long have you been crossfitting? What is your sport? how old are you?

You are incredible, and I'm fascinated. Show us what else you can do. I'm a fan.

Comment #168 - Posted by: Spider Chick at November 4, 2008 7:32 AM

that article is really long

Comment #169 - Posted by: Nathan G at November 4, 2008 7:37 AM

Barry, Where does Ayers say he was trying to kill 25 million Americans and start "concentration camps"? References, please.

I agree that Barack Obama is just another politician, and that hes not gonna save the world wearing a red cape. However, I do believe during this campaign he proven to be steadier, more thoughtful, and brighter than McCain. I find it strange that people who support McCain and his campaign don't see how things he said, the tone his campaign took, was offensive and dismissive of real problems real Americans have, and I don't mean Joe the plumber.

Comment #170 - Posted by: Crazyguywithasword at November 4, 2008 7:38 AM

Awesome work Tamara. Inspiring!

Comment #171 - Posted by: Jimi_33/5'9/150 at November 4, 2008 7:39 AM

Shane (Comment #116)

It is quite possible that with some top level Olympic lift coaching that Tamara could realize some huge numbers. You pick up on a few technical flaws in her lifts, but I do not see where she is leaning towards injury. Her back maintains good shape and she keeps the bar close to her body. If she is capable of changing her start postion to get her hips lower , it may help her set up more consistently for a huge second pull, which it doesn't look like she is getting now, although camera angles can be tricky. But I don't suspect that she is placing herself in a precarious position.

Those are great numbers and technique is solid, though capable of improvement. Every weightlifter and every crossfitter has room for technical improvement though.

Lots of respect for tamara though I have never met her.

Comment #172 - Posted by: Ryan S at November 4, 2008 7:40 AM

Great, more gratuitous, conservative rhetoric. Just go vote for whoever supports the majority of the issues you support, period. Then we can all get back to working out!

Comment #173 - Posted by: Long Beach Kirk at November 4, 2008 7:40 AM

One of the great paradoxes of crossfit: It requires self-discipline to adhere to the program and while the creator of this system encourages this self-discipline, he lacks the self-control needed to keep politics out of his public venture.

Comment #174 - Posted by: Bill at November 4, 2008 7:41 AM

I can still beat you up with your Charlie Brown doll.
I am still the better sister.

Comment #175 - Posted by: Andrea Holmes at November 4, 2008 7:43 AM


Please re-read my post. I was referring to Exit Polls.

To the rant and ravers regarding the past 8 years. So are you planning to vote out the incumbents in Congress? Are you planning on voting out local/state incumbents? Or is the reason for crap local/state/federal poltics all do to the Republican Presidency? If you're going to make a "change". Do it across the board.

Comment #176 - Posted by: trace at November 4, 2008 7:48 AM

You rock my world, Tami!
Crossfit's right-wing leanings are obnoxious and arrogant. I typically stay as far as possible from the crappy political editorials posted on the main site. Love the WODs - the political commentary leaves quite a bit to be desired.

Comment #177 - Posted by: sierra at November 4, 2008 7:48 AM

I wonder if there is a way for coach to set up a system in CrossFit where those who are the best performers can do some of the workouts for those that aren't yet as good, to kind of spread the fitness around. That would certainly help bring up the fitness level across the board, improve times, and increase the effort and incentive to improve.

Doesn't make much sense does it?

Comment #178 - Posted by: dan colson at November 4, 2008 7:54 AM

Well said Apolloswabbie. (#5x something in that range)

Ignore the political parts of the article. Read the rest, there are some important things in there that everyone should know about. If you don't realize how easily you can be influenced you are just that much easier to influence.

I'm voting for the constitution party for president and senate because the republicans have made it their habbit to betray my conservative values at every turn. McCain could run as a democrat better than as a republican. (Though he has done just enough conservative stuff that I can understand the democrats not wanting him either) Palin appears great, but she isn't enough to balance out McCain.

Comment #179 - Posted by: Henry Miller at November 4, 2008 7:54 AM

#11 - RT,

Those of us in the military are not arm-dragging ignoramuses. We can discern our own political viewpoints...and often do. By reading it on CrossFit, we are not going to lose all hope in humanity and the United States and be put under any undue stress simply because we disagree with the article and points of view of people who happen to share a desire to better ourselves through fitness.

You say "Regardless of our beliefs, races, or political leanings, Marines of all backgrounds are taught to come together to accomplish the mission. American politicians and society as a whole would do well to heed some of the same lessons and stop trying to criticize each other."
-yet you believe that somehow an article and a political discussion will cause unnecessary tension at a military gym. I have more faith in my fellow soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen. I hope as a Capt in the Marines you do as well...and simply get over it.

Other than that, i love my rest days, and love political if i could just convince my leadership that election day needs to be a day off

Comment #180 - Posted by: Matteucs at November 4, 2008 7:56 AM

Holy Crap! Tamara that was amazing, I think not many guys are talking about it because none of them can match it! LOL

I found on her site she did Firefighter Fran!

Comment #181 - Posted by: Paul-DC at November 4, 2008 8:02 AM

Anyone see the 'OTHER' article today - on T-Nation? Interested in the group's response. The article was very good (this is coming from someone who's not only an affiliate, but a contributor to T-nation, though) in my opinion, and should do a lot to bridge the two huge communities.

Comment #182 - Posted by: Chris Cooper at November 4, 2008 8:03 AM


Of course you try to dismiss my comment as "if you don't like it, leave." If you read it again (#42), I was very clear.

"If you don't like the article, offer something substantive to counter it. When you simply attack the article or the author, you sound like a bunch of fascist morons."

Translation: Discuss the article. If you don't like it, don't attempt to impose your will and censor those with other views.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The left believes in free speech. They believe in having the ability to call George Bush a fascist dictator and a traitor. They believe that burning the American flag is a free speech right. They believe that pornography is a protected right under free speech.

If you disagree with the left, they don't really want to hear it. They want you silenced. They believe in free speech, as long as it is liberal speech.

Comment #183 - Posted by: Paul Szoldra "StrikeFO", CrossFit Camp Pendleton at November 4, 2008 8:16 AM

Over the past three days I have been getting a real painful headache in the back of my head when working out and at work when I am doing anything hard and strenous. It happened when I was doing the pull up work out the other day and also while doing back extensions during yesterdays WOD.

I have been doing the WOD consistantly for about two months and worked out consistantly for over three years throwing in crossfit off and on.

I really love crossfit and feel like it has taken my workouts to the next level. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I believe that I read a comment in the past on someone who was having a similiar problem.

less politics, more crossfit

Comment #184 - Posted by: Chad at November 4, 2008 8:29 AM

No on 8, don't let the government give us different rules for different groups of people.

If you are a Democrat vote no on 8 because it is discrimination.

If you are a Republican vote no on 8 because the government shouldn't be telling us how to live our lives.

If you are an American vote no on 8 because it goes against everything this country stands for.

Comment #185 - Posted by: Andrew at November 4, 2008 8:33 AM

#161 Jake Di Vita

I can't see the video because youtube is blocked here, but based on your description it sounds like there's a reasonable explanation. The damage to building 7 was extensive but did not cause an immediate collapse. The building collapsed several hours after the twin towers and it was known ahead of time that the building was going to collapse. My step-father worked there so I had a special interest in watching the news on that building on that day. I've also talked to him about what he saw that day and I'm convinced that if there is a conspiracy it must be very far reaching to involve my step-dad. Granted I haven't seen the video and may be off topic, but reporting on the collapse of building 7 was going on across the media well before it happened. The BBC didn't have any more insight into the situation than anyone else. I'm sure you could find a similar clip from Fox News.

Comment #186 - Posted by: S Chaffe at November 4, 2008 8:39 AM

Thruster WOD from Saturday done yesterday as RX'D....
135, 155, 165, 175, 185(weak), 180, 180. Started out with a CFWU and some light squats and deads for form.
Sorry I got nothing for all the political discussion today. Just make your voice heard and go out and VOTE.

Comment #187 - Posted by: tctaylor79 at November 4, 2008 8:41 AM

it is so funny how left wing posters on here are so offended by a public site posting a right wing editorial and yet they cannot see the most obvious left wing bias of the liberal media

I am a Canadian and I have been blown away by the bias towards Obama in the media political coverage, and the obvious hatred and mockery of Mcain and Palin

what is even more amazing is how the people follow the media like sheep, all the while thinking they are forming their own "unbiased" opinions

democracy is a questionable exercise in an age where information to the masses is controlled by the media

whoever tells the story controls the message

if you don't think the media influences you, then you are the most influenced of all, the inability to see it makes the deception deeper

Comment #188 - Posted by: nolan Clark at November 4, 2008 8:41 AM

#178 Paul

"If you disagree with the left, they don't really want to hear it. They want you silenced. They believe in free speech, as long as it is liberal speech."

That is no more true of the left than it is of the right. It is true of SOME of the left and SOME of the right. Same rules apply.

Comment #189 - Posted by: S Chaffe at November 4, 2008 8:45 AM

I totally appreciate CrossFit for not only the awesome fitness methodology, but for all the perspectives on the world that I likely never would have investigated. My brain gets a workout as much as my body.

Comment #190 - Posted by: David Salmon at November 4, 2008 8:50 AM

interesting results...

Comment #191 - Posted by: cj at November 4, 2008 8:50 AM

I just did some studying for my stats exam, so I thought the article was actually fairly interesting. However, it seems to really be a stretch, and after connecting all the dots doesn't actually provide any evidence for its position, just basically assumes it's true.

Clevers Hans was a completely different situation. That involved standard operant conditioning, where a stimulus and behavior were paired repeatedly with a reward, allowing Hans to learn the behavior. Polls are, I believe, a one time interaction involving no positive reinforcement, so the unconscious cuing argument, while an interesting idea, doesn't seem to be very likely.

As far as Asch's experiments go, when they are repeated today, thanks to the different culture we live in, people are far less likely to conform compared to when the experiments were originally conducted. Again, it's possible that implicit norms are influencing people's answers, but the article simply doesn't provide any evidence for it, but just supposes it's happening.

And to assume that statisticians who have spent years studying this have never considered this sort of thing and have no safeguards against it set up is a little ridiculous.

So, it's an interesting idea, but the lack of actual evidence provided in the article was disappointing.

That said, what exactly is Obama going to change? Maybe I'll go vote third party.

Comment #192 - Posted by: mjk 20/M/5'10"/155 at November 4, 2008 8:56 AM

Is there a reason my comments are not being posted?

I know I am Canadian so maybe my thoughts on your political process are not as important, but I have been respectful and not used any profane language

just curious as to whoever has blocked me for any reasons that I am not aware of, I will glady recieve any correction and rectify the problem

i appreciate the site as I enjoy immensely both training and political discourse and debate


Comment #193 - Posted by: nolan Clark at November 4, 2008 8:57 AM

Coach, I wanted to say "thanks". I ran a 5K in a pair of Vibram FiveFingers on Saturday and beat my best time by 37 seconds to 21:30. It's probably not "great" in runners' eyes, but for a guy who doesn't run miles and miles to train, it's great proof that CrossFit is functional for improving performance in all areas. Thank you.

As for the election.


And take 10 seconds out of your complaining about candidates or Coach's article or how "bad" we have it now in America because of the economy (even though if you're on the internet reading this you're probably richer than 75% of the world) to be thankful that many men have died for your right to vote for whichever side and many people in this world don't have a choice who's going to run their country.

Just a reminder...

Comment #194 - Posted by: ProPain at November 4, 2008 9:02 AM

Get out and vote everyone!

Comment #195 - Posted by: mp at November 4, 2008 9:02 AM

Question...has anyone tried that new protein water called Isopure? If so what is your review and how does it taste? I was thinking about giving it a try.

Comment #196 - Posted by: The Hosh at November 4, 2008 9:06 AM

Absolutely #179 Andrew, and well said. In California, No on Prop 8.

Comment #197 - Posted by: a noble at November 4, 2008 9:07 AM

Thanks Crossfit HQ!

Comment #198 - Posted by: Tamara 5'9"/165 at November 4, 2008 9:11 AM


A great friend, training partner, mentor, and one bad a$$ firefighter! glad your getting the recognition you so truly deserve. can't wait to get back in the action at CFO...

Comment #199 - Posted by: P. at November 4, 2008 9:12 AM

When it says rest you really not exercise? I can't stand missing a day....

I did 60 min cardio equipt and CFWU 3 rounds as RXed.
also excercised right to vote! Go McCain/Palin!

Comment #200 - Posted by: Ian C at November 4, 2008 9:15 AM

I'm breaking my 20 month avoidance of posting on the blog (accepts cookie) to just put this out there for everyone in the US. See y'all in 2010!

Whoever Wins, Chill A Bit

Comment #201 - Posted by: Moon at November 4, 2008 9:20 AM

"Over 90% of journalists report themselves to be politically liberal". I did not have a chance to read this whole article, but was that statistic sourced anywhere? While I do believe there is a SLIGHT left bias in the news, I hardly believe it is 90%. If it is then I am shocked. If it is not, I am pissed off that people report things like that without sourcing them. On my lunch break I will read this whole thing...

Comment #202 - Posted by: Jared at November 4, 2008 9:31 AM

Hey guys, I am trying to simplify my workout, and would like to choose 3 hero workouts to do once a week for the next month. I know Murph will be one of them, but am having trouble deciding on the other 2. I am not looking for anything that will add weight/ bulk to my body. I will probably do the workouts tuesday, wednesday, and thursday and save the weekends to go climbing. Suggestions please!

Comment #203 - Posted by: Jared at November 4, 2008 9:34 AM

Keep the articles coming. Not all Crossfitters live in CA.

Comment #204 - Posted by: Ben at November 4, 2008 9:35 AM

Hey, it's their site. They can do what they like. You don't ask your proctologist for a teeth cleaning, and I don't ask my coach for definitive political advice.

Thanks for doing what you do, Glassmans, even if I disagree vehemently with your politics. We're Americans. Argument is what we do.

Comment #205 - Posted by: Spencer Hall at November 4, 2008 9:35 AM

Coach and Lauren-
Thank you for the rest day discussions. I'm glad you continue to post engaging articles. One of my favorite sayings is-

"If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."

Crossfit is amazing! Thank you both for your tireless efforts, leadership and character!

Comment #206 - Posted by: PXT Cody 6'/195/33/M at November 4, 2008 9:41 AM


I just found the source....
My bad. Still hard to believe though. I am gonna research this...

Comment #207 - Posted by: Jared at November 4, 2008 9:43 AM

good article, lots of info. don't know how pertinent it is, because it is loaded with speculation, and maybe a little paranoia. (i'm a conservative by the way). i like the response that person gave saying people vote against the current president's party, not for any of the candidates. it's the only way bush (the second one) could have ever won in the first place.

i'm shocked the media didn't explore a single 'questionable' relationship of obama's, yet they turn every rock in joe schmo's yard upside-down looking for dirt. good use of media time and funding, not. in my opinion, were obama a conservative, the media would have put him away on the wright issue alone, let alone the several other odd figures he hangs out with.

Comment #208 - Posted by: mtvet/44/6'/208/m at November 4, 2008 9:44 AM

Whatever the outcome, half the country will hate whoever is in office. Isn't it business as usual for the past 2,3 elections?

Comment #209 - Posted by: Steve Croushore at November 4, 2008 9:46 AM

That's a horrid and insensitive comment BAMF, #198. I hope it gets deleted soon.

Comment #211 - Posted by: Edwin 26/M/68"/175 at November 4, 2008 9:55 AM

Moon #192 - great link and contribution.

I'm a very interested overseas observer. We're more of a global village than we've ever been. Our way of life - and our very existence as a species - is under very real threat in many different ways. Let's all stay civil and respectful of each other's opinions. I have my strong preference for the election, but I wish you ALL nothing but the best. May the best man win and let's all get behind whoever that is.

On the article, I was talking to a US friend who told me that most telephone pollsters only call those with land lines. Many younger voters use cell phones and don't have land lines. A majority of those younger voters also seem to favour the Democratic candidate, so the poll results might therefore be skewed in favour of McCain. I thought it was interesting.


Comment #212 - Posted by: J1 at November 4, 2008 9:59 AM

#15 Sailor Erin,
I think that both you and I are overshooting. Based on AllisonNYC's posts, she is doing 50 days of 100 pushups. I've been doing 50 pullups, 150 pushups or dips and 300 squats daily. I wimpped out on the squats after a set of 60 yesterday because of weakness. Other than that, I've completed 5 days so far. I finished 20 pullups/60 Decline puhups/60 squats this morning. Good luck on your end.
BTW - Thank you for serving and preserving our right to Freedom of speech.
The Lord bless you all and bring you home safely.

Comment #213 - Posted by: rhinodc m/41/5'8"/192 at November 4, 2008 10:02 AM

The New York Times has a great article on the limitations of static stretching last Friday

This would have been much more relevant to crossfitters than the link that was chosen.

Comment #214 - Posted by: dewy24 at November 4, 2008 10:09 AM

#198, BAMF - Why do you need to disrespect someone like that? That is childish and ridiculous.

Props to Tamara for killing that WOD

Comment #215 - Posted by: wyatt at November 4, 2008 10:11 AM


From Brand X: "The Chief"with shoulder subs.

AMRAP 3:00
125# Power Clean
9 Squats
Rest 1:00

Repeat x 5

3 times through each round for a total of 15

125# Power Clean is new 3RM

Comment #216 - Posted by: bingo at November 4, 2008 10:13 AM

I read that article in T-Nation by Chris Shugart. I thought he represented CrossFit, Glassman, CrossFitters, and CrossFit's goals very well.

Comment #217 - Posted by: max at November 4, 2008 10:20 AM

Proud to say that everyone this morning at the affiliate I work out at is voting for Obama...including the owner.

Comment #218 - Posted by: jck at November 4, 2008 10:22 AM

Very interesting read, but was hoping for a plug for the Milgram experiments... Shock and awe baby, shock and awe (sizzle sizzle)!

Oh, but that shock will come later if Obamarama is elected...

I voted - get out and do your duty or shut up

Comment #219 - Posted by: sundevilstormin at November 4, 2008 10:26 AM

Regardless of who you like in the election, not just on the national level, but just as importantly, on the local level, it doesn't mean squat unless you go to the voting booth and make yourself heard. VOTE for time... 3 2 1 go!

Comment #220 - Posted by: E Mau Mau in VT at November 4, 2008 10:28 AM

@ 208: jck - maybe they are just SAYING that they are voting for him

Comment #221 - Posted by: SunDevilStormin at November 4, 2008 10:29 AM


Comment #222 - Posted by: CC at November 4, 2008 10:29 AM


I wasn't as clear as I should have been.

They were reporting the building had ALREADY collapsed when you could plainly see it behind them in their live video feed.

Comment #223 - Posted by: Jake Di Vita at November 4, 2008 10:30 AM

No reason to post articles like this on What is the reason for this? Persuade people to vote one way or another? There is way too much of this out there already. I go to to check out the WOD not political drivel. This is disappointing. Especially on election day

Comment #224 - Posted by: Sheezy at November 4, 2008 10:38 AM

Sunday- ran 8 sets intervals of (3 min hard/ 3 min easy)
Soccer- 60 min

Monday’s I get so tired I can barely stay awake to eat. I made myself walk morning and evening but then was in bed at 9pm :)

Oh man….

Snatch rep 1: 55-65-75-(80Fx2)-75-75-75-(80F)
Was really upset by this…I got 85 on prior. Why would that fall so much?

Thruster rep 1: 85-95-105-110-(110F)-110-110-110


Comment #225 - Posted by: in8girl at November 4, 2008 10:42 AM

bamf #198 check your security settings; it appears that someone hijacked your email and has been posting purile comments in your name.

long live the queen.

Comment #226 - Posted by: michael g at November 4, 2008 10:45 AM

"I have a problem with a commander-in-chief with no military experience"

President during the Civil War: Abe Lincoln(no military experience)
War conclusion: Union victory

President during World War II: Franklin Roosevelt(no military experience)
War conclusion: US and Allied victory

Seems to me this doesn't matter.

The reason the US was lifted out of the Great Depression was MASSIVE government spending on both New Deal programs and then World War II.

As for the comments saying "The surge is working"

If by working, you mean getting the shit to shoe level, yes, it has. But creating a stable democracy that will not be a threat to the US? Hardly. The main reason for a reduction in violence has been ethnic cleansing. Shiites and Sunnis aren't getting along any more than they ever did, its just now they're not in the same neighborhoods.

The military has a huge conservative bias. They drill it into you, I know firsthand. Its all left over b.s. from the vietnam war era, and I'm so sick and tired of it. The Iraq War was stupid. Those people are animals and don't deserve to be free. They smile in your face and then, just wait till your translator tells you what they said five minutes later. They HATE us, they HATE Christians, they HATE the U.S. Ask your translator guys.
The Christians that were left over have been systematically driven out of Iraq. Just last week there were thousands being forced out of Kirkuk. The ones who couldn't afford to leave were murdered.
If you really are "praying every night for John McCain to be President" why don't you ask God what he thinks about us sacrificing our soldiers for a bunch of tribal Muslim scumbags who murder Christians every chance they get.
Google "Christians in Iraq" and maybe that will help undo some of the brainwashing.

Comment #227 - Posted by: JPK at November 4, 2008 10:52 AM

#208 - jck :

Proud to say everyone I have talked to in the past month say they are voting for McCain!!! actually no, thats a stupid statement and so is saying that everyone at your gym is voting for Obama. who cares?

Thank GOD there are people, alot of people, who disagree..if not this world would be a BORING place

Comment #228 - Posted by: Matteucs at November 4, 2008 10:55 AM

I believe that the Glassman's have a right to post whatever they please. They pay to host the site and are responsible for the content.

What does bother me is the fact that owners and proprietors of Crossfit affiliate gyms who disagree with the views posted, rarely voice their opinions. In this case, one entity is profiting directly from another and is too afraid to publicly "bite the hand that feeds it"

If it's true that intellectual discourse and debate is part of the Crossfit approach, why do we see so few proprietors/affiliates take part in the back and forth?

Comment #229 - Posted by: RK at November 4, 2008 10:55 AM

I heard that in addition to paying for my mortgage my gas and my electric bill...Obama will also do the WOD for me every day. Golly jeepers, I only hope I can vote for him twice!

Comment #230 - Posted by: Playoff Beard at November 4, 2008 10:57 AM

has anyone read this interview? Just wondering if anyone has gone from a 200lb deadlift to 500-750lb in 2 years on crossfit. Can anyone doing crossfit pull 750?

Comment #231 - Posted by: max at November 4, 2008 11:11 AM

If I lived in California like the Glassmans, I would be a raging conservative. However, having lived in the south my whole life, I have gradually become a moderate due to the big government necessary for the social conservative agenda that people like Palin represent.
Democrats in Virginia and Republicans in California are practically identical on the issues. When will people figure this out? The Republican party went too far from the middle, so now the Dems are going to take control, and they'll stay in the middle for a while. When they veer to far from center, they will be checked. This is how our system works.
Articles like this assume that people are stupid and easily influenced by polls. That is simply not true. Notice that in the study mentioned, only a 1/3 of people ended up changing their minds. They probably didn't agree, and just wanted to get out of the room before they hit somebody.
The excesses of liberalism and conservatism are both equally toxic. If you can't acknowledge this fact, then you are simply not being objective. Also, let's be clear here, I saw somebody mentinoning national socialism. National Socialism(Nazism) was a fascist movement born out of the German right wing, not the left. They were actually an anti-communist party, ultra right wing in nature. They, to me, represent an extreme right wing government, whereas Stalin's Russia represents the extreme left wing.
Both are inherently evil. Without conservaties around, liberals would put too many dumb new ideas(welfare) into play and cause chaos. Without liberals around, conservatives would fight too many changes, and never take chances on new ideas, like civil rights.
We are all God's children, and let's be mindful of it.

Comment #232 - Posted by: Quietlike at November 4, 2008 11:16 AM

you know a lot of people blame a lot of other stuff as to why the democrats will clean sweep.

I am as far right as they come and the only people we have to blame is ourselves as republicans.

We spent too much and got away from our ideals of less government......

Rush said it best that the one thing republicans have going for themselves is that liberal will eventually act like liberals again and then we will be fine

but I also agree that we just need to focus more on working out rather tahn arguing who is right and wrong and left and red and blue and just GET SOME!!!!

Comment #233 - Posted by: Cory M/24/230 at November 4, 2008 11:17 AM

MacDaddy Said it best. I can do no better than repeat what he said:

"That is without a doubt the stupidest article I have ever seen posted on this site."

These past few weeks just kill me. All of a sudden Republicans are deep, critical thinkers who fact check and cogitate deeply! Pffft. Where was all this criticism when their RIDICULOUS JOKE of a president was tearing up American credibility for the past 8 years. The only thing uglier than a disillusioned liberal -- and uglier by a long way -- is a hypocritical conservative.

Stand down, Republicans. Your time is well over. Wanna get credibility back? Put W and Cheney in jail, where they belong.

Comment #234 - Posted by: asdfasdf at November 4, 2008 11:22 AM

Someone made the comment that military personnel are for McCain. I'm in the military, and I haven't met one person who admits to being for McCain. For real. These generalizations get frustrating.

Comment #235 - Posted by: theresa at November 4, 2008 11:23 AM

What possible reason could there be for including political commentary on a fitness Web site?

How is that in any way appropriate?

If Real Clear Politics started posting Workouts of the Day, I'd ignore them too, so don't feel bad, guys. Just stick to what you know. Or at least back the right horse.

Comment #236 - Posted by: TMH at November 4, 2008 11:28 AM


I don't know if the author of "The Left's Big Blunder" is referencing Brent Baker's article when quoting their statistics, but if they are then they are grossly misrepresenting the numbers.

According to Mr. Baker (an avowed conservative) 53 percent of journalists identify themselves as moderate. He provides a link to the survey in question. It is Mr. Baker who draws the conclusion that those 53 percent are not actually moderate but "very liberal".

In the link provided in the Zombietime article the number of journalists who classify themselves as moderate it 57.5%. Again the assumption here is that there is no such thing as "moderate". You either identify yourself as conservative outright or you're just another liberal feeding the bias in the mainstream media.

Well that's just silly.

I don't think you have to be underhanded with the numbers to form an argument. If you do, then it's not a very good argument to begin with.

Comment #237 - Posted by: dixon at November 4, 2008 11:38 AM

I have to say this whole thing makes me sad. I have come to the reluctant conclusion that the last two generations of our educational system have produced PC-programmed, morally challenged, philosphically, politically, and economically illiterate thugs, who think that all opinions count equally, simply because everyone has an opinion.

What is the evidence of George Bush's catastrophic failures? None that I can see.

War in Iraq: voted for both by Democrats and Republicans. We freed the Iraqis, and they want us to stay there until the job is done. The sheikhs begged Obama to stay. Hussein will never threaten the Middle East with the weapons he fully admitted he intended to build when he was arrested.

Economic problems: result from failure to regulate and enforce laws with respect to Credit Rating Agencies, coupled with too much money, and excessively easy credit.

The Dem's bear prime responsibility (although not exclusive responsibility) for the CRA problem. The Fed for the money supply, and primarily the Dem's for the ease of credit. The intent was to increase home ownership, but the effect was to ruin many people who thought the government wouldn't be dumb enough to let banks get them in an untenable position. Bush and the Republicans are not innocent, but hardly bear more than a part of the blame, and not the lion's share.

Deficit: yes, this is a problem. Bush faced a recession, and two wars. However, net tax receipts as a percentage of the GDP kept pace, and did so at a lower tax rate. Currently, the top 10% of Americans are paying more taxes, as a group, than they have since Reagan was in office. 10% of Americans pay 71% of the taxes.

I could go on, but it does little good. People that insist on substituting insults for anything even approaching ANYTHING a responsible school would teach as a form of debate, will not listen. Their minds are twisted with the sickness of moral relativism, and Political Correctness.

I can and have gone as many rounds as needed with any and all comers on these issues and more for the last 3 years or so, and you know what? Leftists are intellectually and factually bankrupt. I know this, since none of them come here and hold their ground.

You can insult me. You can belittle Republicans--hell, I will join you at times--and you can belittle a man who has given 8 years of his life to guide our nation through a difficult time.

But all that makes you is a craven fool who is actively supporting the decline in the use of the freedom of speech for the purpose for which it was intended. Collectively, we are supposed to be able to think better than any of us individually.

But if you dedicate your efforts simply to insult and assault, you are doing nothing but making yourself and everyone around less aware, less able to make cogent arguments, and ultimately less able to think.

Comment #238 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:41 AM

#223 - OK, I admit you have some points there, but don't deny the fact that your man Bill slimed the presidency a bit too (aka our friend Monica and that blue dress of hers). No one in office is above reproach, and both parties have plenty of feces on their faces.

#193 Jared - "I do believe there is a SLIGHT left bias in the news..." Dude, what planet do you live on? Holy crap, it's this type of unawareness that stupifies me.

#224 Theresa - I think it's because traditionally this has been the case, and folks assume it still is. Republicans typically promote a larger, better funded, better armed military than Dems. While there have been exceptions, history over the past 30 years reveals that the most notable salary increases experienced by the military were during Republican presidencies (Nixon and Reagan).

Comment #239 - Posted by: Mark at November 4, 2008 11:41 AM

I have to say this whole thing makes me sad. I have come to the reluctant conclusion that the last two generations of our educational system have produced PC-programmed, morally challenged, philosphically, politically, and economically illiterate thugs, who think that all opinions count equally, simply because everyone has an opinion.

What is the evidence of George Bush's catastrophic failures? None that I can see.

War in Iraq: voted for both by Democrats and Republicans. We freed the Iraqis, and they want us to stay there until the job is done. The sheikhs begged Obama to stay. Hussein will never threaten the Middle East with the weapons he fully admitted he intended to build when he was arrested.

Economic problems: result from failure to regulate and enforce laws with respect to Credit Rating Agencies, coupled with too much money, and excessively easy credit.

Comment #240 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:42 AM


Don't bother trying to reason with #201. He is a big kool-aid drinker if you know what I mean

Comment #241 - Posted by: Jared at November 4, 2008 11:43 AM

I have to say this whole thing makes me sad. I have come to the reluctant conclusion that the last two generations of our educational system have produced P.C.-programmed, morally challenged, philosphically, politically, and economically illiterate simpletons, who think that all opinions count equally, simply because everyone has an opinion.

Comment #242 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:43 AM

That was meant tongue and cheek btw

Comment #243 - Posted by: Jared at November 4, 2008 11:44 AM

It seems that all the posters who decry the non-fitness postings must not read the comments. Each and every rest day a new topic is discussed and the same blah blah blah replies about "why" and if they dont' stop I will hold my breath blah blah blah!!! What's up with these people? If you don't like the topics don't read and/or don't reply with useless comments. Don't belive Coach will stop because you are ashamed of the topic. Get a life. Or do we need the Fairness Doctrine in this forum? Ha.

Comment #244 - Posted by: trace at November 4, 2008 11:44 AM

What evidence can people offer of Bush's alleged malfeasance?

Economic problems are the result from failure to regulate and enforce laws with respect to Credit Rating Agencies, coupled with too much money, and excessively easy credit.

Comment #245 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:45 AM

The Dem's bear prime responsibility (although not exclusive responsibility) for the CRA problem. The Fed for the money supply, and primarily the Dem's for the ease of credit. The intent was to increase home ownership, but the effect was to ruin many people who thought the government wouldn't be dumb enough to let banks get them in an untenable position. Bush and the Republicans are not innocent, but hardly bear more than a part of the blame, and not the lion's share.

Deficit: yes, this is a problem. Bush faced a recession, and two wars. However, net tax receipts as a percentage of the GDP kept pace, and did so at a lower tax rate. Currently, the top 10% of Americans are paying more taxes, as a group, than they have since Reagan was in office. 10% of Americans pay 71% of the taxes.

I could go on, but it does little good. People that insist on substituting insults for anything even approaching ANYTHING a responsible school would teach as a form of debate, will not listen. Their minds are twisted with the sickness of moral relativism, and Political Correctness.

I can and have gone as many rounds as needed with any and all comers on these issues and more for the last 3 years or so, and you know what? Leftists are intellectually and factually bankrupt. I know this, since none of them come here and hold their ground.

You can insult me. You can belittle Republicans--hell, I will join you at times--and you can belittle a man who has given 8 years of his life to guide our nation through a difficult time.

But all that makes you is a craven fool who is actively supporting the decline in the use of the freedom of speech for the purpose for which it was intended. Collectively, we are supposed to be able to think better than any of us individually.

But if you dedicate your efforts simply to insult and assault, you are doing nothing but making yourself and everyone around less aware, less able to make cogent arguments, and ultimately less able to think.

Comment #246 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:48 AM

#224 theresa

did you read the article? almost half the country is voting for him yet no one seems to publically support him. funny how that works. Also just to rain on your parade a little more, you being one of the few women in the military (probably deployed right now) no doubt men are trying to score with you, so they will agree with whatever stupid crap you have to say. sounds heartless but its the truth. I bet your an officer too that just makes it even bettter. tell me Im wrong.

Comment #247 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 11:53 AM

One last thing: the middle east.

Everyone, foreign and domestic, thought they had Wmd's.

When arrested, he admitted he intended to develop them, once the heat was off.

Bush has never been shown to have lied about anything. Wilson had nothing to do with the Italian forgery, much less any real intelligence. He wasn't an agent, or even acting officially, when he went to Nigeria.

We have created the template for self rule in a historically autocratic region.

John Kerry and Al Gore were fully as hawkish as Bush. They just didn't get elected, with the follow up opportunities to go soft just when the going got hard.

Comment #248 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:53 AM

One last thing. The middle east.

Everyone, foreign and domestic, thought they had undeclared weapons, and undeclared weapons programs.

When arrested, Saddam admitted he intended to develop them, once the heat was off.

Comment #249 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:55 AM

Bush has never been shown to have been anything other than above board about anything.

We have created the template for self rule in a historically autocratic region.

John Kerry and Al Gore were fully as hawkish as Bush. They just didn't get elected, with the follow up opportunities to go soft just when the going got hard.

Comment #250 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 11:56 AM

The self-proclaimed conservatives here should have got old Ron Paul in there. He was right on the war, right on the economy, and liberal enough socially (i.e. government out of your personal life and end this perpetual war on drugs) to appeal to the left. The man is so conservative he refuses to participate in the Congressional pension program for Christ's sake.

Republicans deserve to lose big this cycle. They've acted like liberals for the last 8 years.

Comment #251 - Posted by: Tom Jefferson at November 4, 2008 11:58 AM

#213 Jake

Are you sure it's not building 3, 4 , 5, or 6? Actually I'd be surprised if they were reporting in front of any of those buildings with the debris around after the 1st two fell. I'll watch it when I get home.

Comment #252 - Posted by: S Chaffe at November 4, 2008 11:59 AM

#222 theresa

Im going to tell you something you arent going to like. The people you are talking to are no doubt saying whatever to sleep with you. Its hard to hear but its the truth you being a woman in the military. men are no doubt on your door step daily. telling you whatever you want to hear. I bet youre an officer too, that is just great. tell me im wrong.

Ive been around a while and Im no fool. The support of the feminist movement was a smart thing for Obama to buy, I mean gain. I hope you women are happy you have a big strong man to protect you instead of that evil Sarah Palin who spent so much money on clothes and lives so close to russia. Shes so different than you.

Comment #253 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 12:04 PM

Odd how Barry is being told to grow up by someone hiding behind the anonymity of a string of nonsense characters on a board where most people know each other by handles, monikers, or even given names with email addresses or URLs that lead back to those people. You, my friend, are just being a troll and hiding behind the fact that you don't have to stand in front of all of these people and be accountable for your words, thoughts, or deeds. That is low of mind and character as well as being childish.

Comment #254 - Posted by: TripMN at November 4, 2008 12:07 PM

So today is the "big day" for all,this election is about all of us, we will never all agree on most things but I do know that what ever happens we will all have to live under it.I lean more right and its ok if people don't agree thats the american way.But to those who have not been realy listening and looking at the truth in both parties you get what you buy.I have trouble with anyone who hangs with people that think we as americans are the problem in this world.And there isn't any one person that can change the ills of this country.This is a country of the people by the people".If we as a nation put our hope in others to bring us what we need and truly believe that goverment will fix what makes us unhappy what fools we have become.We should all live by how much we put in to this life,we by nature have always been a country that takes care of each other when times are hard.The goverment can be helpful but not the cure.The real future in this nation is how we treat each other and make goverment accountable for there greed.We are the "of the people and by the people"we should keep our eyes on who ever wins and hold there feet to fire"and make them remember this is our country they are there for us not there own gain!

Comment #255 - Posted by: gale at November 4, 2008 12:16 PM

#234 Jimmythepink

Are all the dudes in the military that I know that are voting for Obama trying to hump me too? Does that mean all true democrats in the military are gay, and all the republicans are liars?

Where did you come up with that line of reasoning?

I'm sure the more reasonable republicans cringed when they read that, just as I cringe when I read some thing from my fellow "lefties".

Comment #256 - Posted by: S Chaffe at November 4, 2008 12:17 PM

I'm a college student right now working on getting a degree in exercise and sports science at the University of Mary Hardin Baylor in Belton TX. A project I'm woking on right now requires me to do a project over a possible career field that invovles exercise. Pretty broad subject. I chose to concentrate on people who train fighters. So if anybody out here in the Crossfit cummunity who does this wouldn't mind giving me a little phone or email interview I would greatly appreciate it. Just hit me up at

Comment #257 - Posted by: Aaron Jackson at November 4, 2008 12:18 PM

I don't know why but I'm always surprised when I read that CrossFitters are Republicans bashing Democrats or Democrats bashing Republicans. Maybe it's real simple-minded of me but it just seems like this is a site that would attract a lot independent thinkers and libertarians. These days Reps and Dems are so similar as to be almost the same. They both talk about how they want to help you and what they can do for you and that's pretty scary. When's the last time the government did ANYthing better than someone in the private sector? As much as we all care about health, do we really want health care put into the government's hands?

If you're a Republican, are you really happy with what they're spending you're money on and how much they're charging you? You guys are supposed to be afor a smaller government. And if you're a Dem, are you really that psyched about how much taxes are going to go up and how many more programs there will be and the stupid crap you're going to be paying for that doesn't have anything to do with you? Doesn't anyone here besides me want the government to tap the brakes a little and leave us the hell alone? You all sound crazy to me.

And how is Jared leaving comment #225 to someone in comment #226? Is he from the future? None of this makes sense.

Comment #258 - Posted by: Andy P 41 yoa 6'3" 200 lb. white guy at November 4, 2008 12:21 PM

Saw this article recently, thought I would share.

Comment #259 - Posted by: Mary at November 4, 2008 12:25 PM

#234 Jimmythered, #237 S Chaffe

I did cringe when I read that. That sort of rationale doesn't help the conservative argument.

Comment #260 - Posted by: Phillip Y at November 4, 2008 12:27 PM

Gotta agree with #164. Other than that, go vote, not much is going to change for most of us no matter who wins

Comment #261 - Posted by: beasthouse at November 4, 2008 12:28 PM


Which one's the "right horse?"

Comment #262 - Posted by: Andy P 41 yoa 6'3" 200 lb. white guy at November 4, 2008 12:28 PM

Decided to tough out a WOD I came up with. Please tell me what you think.

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 of:
1.5 pood Snatch L/R
225lb Dead-lift
Hand-stand push-ups


Ouch. Bad time, but killer workout!

Comment #263 - Posted by: SSgt B USMC at November 4, 2008 12:29 PM

Decided to tough out a WOD I came up with. Please tell me what you think.

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 of:
1.5 pood Snatch L/R
225lb Dead-lift
Hand-stand push-ups


Ouch. Bad time, but killer workout!

BTW, that lady is strong!

Comment #264 - Posted by: SSgt B USMC at November 4, 2008 12:30 PM

You can't trust any politician these days.

Did michael today - 18:43...

That was a 10 minute PR. I don't know what came over me.

Comment #265 - Posted by: Dave m/22/6'3"/260 at November 4, 2008 12:30 PM

as rx'd

Voted x 1

God Bless America!

Comment #266 - Posted by: time 2 cf M/45/5"8"/150 at November 4, 2008 12:34 PM

I can't believe you people are arguing over Republicans and Democrats. Here's a flash: they're the same. They both want you to pay for a whole bunch of crap you don't want that no one in their right mind would want the government in charge of any way. It's really surprising to me there aren't mostly Libertarians on this site. I just want the government to leave me the hell alone and that seems to be a minority opinion here.

Comment #267 - Posted by: Andy P 41 yoa 6'3" 200 lb. white guy at November 4, 2008 12:37 PM

Legs are still shot from 'true' tabata and fran, etc, etc, etc at the WPD seminar. Skipped the reading. I Crossfit for fitness, I go elsewhere for my intellect.

Comment #268 - Posted by: Daniel Martin at November 4, 2008 12:39 PM

You know, every defeat is a call for improvment. I have been called every name imaginable, been kicked off of boards, threatened, and overall been punished, to the extent of the ingenuity available to my opponents, for expressing coherently views in favor of my own position, that they cannot counter with respect to support for their own positions.

The single most cogent argument for free speech is simply this: arguments that endure through debate that is conducted using facts and logic, have greater claim to approximating Truth than those which do not. For that reason, even supposed sacred cows should not be protected.

However, this presumes good faith. This is much too high a demand for most leftists. Moderate Democrats I have no problem with. No doubt there have been times when Robber Barons truly did terrorize--with the power of law--the already downtrodden. We have reached a point, though, where the F word is trotted out the moment anyone says no to any idle indulgence that is demanded.

Sometimes, you have to go back to basics. Looking back, one book that had enormous influence on me was Jacques Ellul's excellent book "Propaganda". He is French, and so he is hard to read in any language, but his points are very good.

One of the most salient points, that comes back to me now, is his incisive analysis of the history of public opinion with respect to the Vietnam War. What he shows is that our supposed "thought elite", our graduates of top flight universities, invariably conform to the information that is presented to them by mass media. When Walter Kronkite supported the Vietnam War, so did most of the non-Marxist intellectuals. When he came out against it, so did they. ALL of them thought that, now, the balance of facts had changed. But they hadn't.

I just told my oldest today, without even thinking about it, that if you read your local paper assiduously every day, read mainstream magazines like Time and Newsweek cover to cover every week, and religiously watch the evening news, or even McNeil-Lehrer (or whatever it is called today; I obviously have not watched it for many years), your opinions will be in virtual lock-step with everyone around you.

Intellectuals are BY FAR more vulnerable to propaganda than people who just look around them, or who operate off of common sense principles.

What is interesting, is they will look down on anyone who doesn't think like them as being somehow duped by someone else's propaganda.

If you think you are thinking your own thoughts, that you have nowhere been seduced into patterns of perception chosen by others, then it is likely virtually everything you believe is unoriginal, your own conceits notwithstanding.

The only real solution to this is critical thinking exposed to ideological diversity, and defended honestly. This need never happen for anyone who has found a congenial ideological backwater, which is what the internet has provided in spades.

That is why this site is so shocking to so many, and why I keep coming here. I want opposition.

Comment #269 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 12:43 PM

Can we have a little separation of Crossfit and State?

Comment #270 - Posted by: Stephen at November 4, 2008 12:57 PM


You've got to be kidding me.

I have talked to men and women, officers and enlisted, civilian employees, etc., and they are afraid of people like you running our country for another 4-8 years.

BTW, I'm not an officer, but I do have a master's degree. Does that make me an unknowing, witless liberal incapable of an independent thought in your mind?

Honestly...who knew I was so desirable?!?

Comment #271 - Posted by: theresa at November 4, 2008 1:02 PM

CrossFit, not PoliFit.

Comment #272 - Posted by: Bombero559_39/m/5'11''/265# at November 4, 2008 1:04 PM

what disturbs me most is the possibility (soon to be reality?) that there will be a Dem. pres, Dem House and much for the checks and balances.

At least it will make it easier for change to really take place. I hope & pray.....

Comment #273 - Posted by: MDMelissa at November 4, 2008 1:08 PM

#202 rhinodc

You are incorrect. Allison_NYC's original post on Monday October 28th, she posted this...

"This is probably my favorite workout. I want 150# at least although I'm nervous that I've lost some strength. We'll see.
Tomorrow starts my 50 days of 150 push-ups a day. I'll probably stick to 10 sets of 15. I'm so over sucking at them. My buddy Adam from the message board is going to do it with me except he's doing HSPUs.
Attack what you suck at!"

I started doing the 50 days of 150 push ups that same day. Somewhere after the first post she lowered it to 100 push ups a day. I just hurt my back/ shoulder on Saturday so I will have to restart my 50 days, this time it will be of 200 push ups.

I never lower my standards. I only raise them. I don't know why Allison_NYC did.

Comment #274 - Posted by: Corey Bibolet at November 4, 2008 1:10 PM

Checks and balances were not put into place to limit the control of one party but to check and balance each branch of the government.

Comment #275 - Posted by: theresa at November 4, 2008 1:10 PM

Brian Mackenzie's running seminar in Laguna beach this last weekend was outstanding. Thanks Brian and Carl

Comment #276 - Posted by: Robin at November 4, 2008 1:11 PM

Allison_NYC why did you lower your push ups to 100 a day? On Monday the 28th you said you were doing 150. Most of us are still doing 150 a day.

Comment #277 - Posted by: Corey Bibolet at November 4, 2008 1:12 PM

Ok, here and hence forth, all presidential elections shall be decided by a Fight Gone Bad. Winner takes all.

Comment #278 - Posted by: Steve at November 4, 2008 1:13 PM

I like it: separation of Crossfit and state!!!

but before its official:

When I go into my local gym and bust out Fran or Barbara or any workout involving the wall and a heavy ball, sucking wind and sweating my balls off, I'm the biggest liberal in the room. I'm doing the workout thing a different way.

So enough of the liberal bashing. Crossfitters are librals to some degree; that's why we're here.

Comment #279 - Posted by: lookinathesun at November 4, 2008 1:15 PM

#213 Jake,

I read up on the video, although I still haven't seen it. Apparently it goes down the way you said, the BBC reporter reports the tower has collapsed 20 minutes before the tower actually collapsed. Considering the confusion of the situation and the fact that the area was evacuated hours before the collapse, it's understandable that she made the mistake of repeating what she heard without checking it. I guess it truly does illustrate your point... check your facts.

Comment #280 - Posted by: S Chaffe at November 4, 2008 1:20 PM

been doing crossfit for some weeks now - kicks ass! i don't get bigger, which i also care less about, but i feel that my endurance in all exercises is just taking off!
one question: do you do any additional drills besides the wod? i read about 150 push ups a day and things like that...
greetings from geneva, switzerland! good luck with the election, whomever you have been voting for!

Comment #281 - Posted by: jan at November 4, 2008 1:32 PM

Good day all,

Brisbane site called for 5,5,5,5,5 back squat

Good day for me
Feeling alot more confident with the squats now that I have the technique down.

Semper Fidelis and God Bless

Comment #282 - Posted by: Cody Lee Johnson at November 4, 2008 1:39 PM

Barry Cooper

I think everyone on here needs to word search this page for 'Barry Cooper' and re-read everything Barry has said today.

I think the idea behind the rest day topics is to exercise the mind. Calling someone a name because they have differing opinions is not only childish it is LAZY. I would expect more from a Crossfitter.
The whole idea of Crossfit suggests that the individual is responsible for themselves. What you put in to your WODs is what you get back in your fitness.
It would be great to get coherent debate from the Left but so far the only responses I have recieved on here from liberals is name calling and insults about my in-ability to spell.

If you don't like the rest day topics go watch CNBC or whatever it is that you can feel comfortable with and we'll see you tomorrow for the WOD.

Comment #283 - Posted by: PXT Cody 6'/195/33/M at November 4, 2008 1:42 PM

WOW! Is anyone else suffering from neck pain after the situps/Back extensions yesterday? It seems like since I started crossfit my muscle soreness has been about the same as some of my other gym workouts, but I think my 2 weaknesses are my neck and my hips- they are usually more sore than other body parts and for a longer period of time.

Comment #284 - Posted by: Refuerzo M/33/180/5'8" at November 4, 2008 1:42 PM

Well, at least the article made you think ... as did the Economist article .... as did General Powell... as did the comments.
Character matters ... practice random acts of kindness ... crush snake heads ... and be ready for Game Day, however it sneaks up on you! :-)

Comment #285 - Posted by: Michael Chase at November 4, 2008 1:49 PM

It gives me a good laugh when I read all the whining and sniveling that is coming from the liberal left. Better call the Whaaambulance! lol

I know, lets line up the liberal left on one side of the country, and the conservatives on the other. The liberal left can ride in on their mascot, and we can ride into battle on ours. When its all said and done, those that remain can rule the world! LOL

Comment #286 - Posted by: Big Daddy at November 4, 2008 1:52 PM




Comment #287 - Posted by: SHAWN at November 4, 2008 1:54 PM

33 yom 220 bwt
workout for today:
bike 10 miles to work/gym

5rds of
15 135lb deadlift
12 push-ups
9 abmat unanchored sit-ups
6 burpees
time: 7:22

continuous pull-up workout from sunday
13 rds + 11 pu's new pr

speed and agility work for 20-30 minutes

bike 10 miles home

Comment #288 - Posted by: brian t at November 4, 2008 1:54 PM

As I said previously, people in the military can make up their mind just as readily as a normal citizens. However, theresa, you may not know any who have said they are voting for McCain, but there have been many polls, and they are all showing about a 68-74% support of John McCain over Barack Obama. But those are polls.. and can be wrong.

I'm also in the military, and to jamesthered..I'm an officer, damn.. i must be a delusional fool right?

of most of the people I've met, from the privates, airmen and Staff Sergeants all the way up to the Navy Captains and Army/AF Generals, a very large number are supporting McCain.

I'm not going to tell you that "military men and women want John McCain" but to make an ignorant and blanket statement implying that military members are voting one way just because the group you choose to hang around with are of one political mindset is just plain misleading.

So vote for Obama and/or doesnt matter to me, its your vote, you may have earned it or you may have been born into it...either way. But dont try and allude to the military as supporting one candidate or another because your friends agree with you.

Comment #289 - Posted by: Matteucs at November 4, 2008 2:06 PM

#253 theresa - thats true, on a very basic level, the checks and balances were designed to prohibit any one branch from getting too powerful...however, having one party controlling a super-majority in the Congress and the Presidency allows for those checks and balances to be skirted assuming the party line is towed. It essentially allows the Democratic Party leadership to control the US government. If there is a strong personality, and little opposition among the moderate democrat congressional members, it becomes in a sense one party pushing the same agenda from the executive and the legislative, which in turn eliminates the checks and balances that the two branches were supposed to put on each other. Supreme Court still has a hand in there, but it may not be able to do much with that much power in one party's hands.

But again, thats all hypothetical, for all we know Obama could govern from the center, or the left, and the Congress could do the opposite.

Comment #290 - Posted by: Matteucs at November 4, 2008 2:13 PM

#289 Big Daddy: Amen.

Comment #291 - Posted by: Sean at November 4, 2008 2:49 PM

Comment #292 - Posted by: CJP at November 4, 2008 3:04 PM

Most telephone pollsters only call land lines. So one theory is that many polls are skewed as a result, in favour of older voters, since the polls exclude younger voters who only use cell phones. I thought that was an interesting angle.

Thinking constructively on the Rest Day discussion issue, it might help to have an FAQ explain how they work? It might reduce the habitual "what is this stuff doing here / if you don't like it p*ss off" etc. We might end up "saving a few more souls"!

I'm an interested overseas observer of the election. I have my favourite but I'd like to second what Moon posted at #201....whatever the outcome, let's give the guy a chance and get behind him. They both seem like decent men. We're in a global village with real problems and we need to stay respectful of each other on a local, national and international level. Many Americans might not realise the damage that has been done to the international standing of the US over the last while by the Abu G. and Gitmo scandals and by what is going on generally in the WOT. This isn't hate, ignorant or a failure to live in the real world. It's a reflection of the high standards to which outsiders and friends hold America. Whoever wins, I'd like to see some real change on those issues and see a firm stewardship of the environment. Many on here seem not to believe that global warming is a problem. Notwithstanding real differences on that issue, we should not want to exhaust fish supplies, de-forest and pollute.

So good luck, America. May the best man win.


Comment #293 - Posted by: J1 at November 4, 2008 3:07 PM

#184 Chad: Dude, I'm sorry. I feel your pain. The same kind of thing happened to me a few months ago and it was horrendous.

Every time I worked out I ended up with a massive headache that got so bad at times that it dropped me to my knees and the only thing I could do was grab my head and pray. It usually happened after pull-ups and MUs.

I tried to work though it for awhile doing exercises that didn't aggravate it too much.

It felt like it was in the back of my head but would swoop up and make my temples feel like they were being smashed with a hammer. I asked a lot of people what the heck was going on. Chad Waterbury was one of them. He said that I had so much tension in my shoulders and traps that when I tried to use them they would pretty much cramp up and BAM, huge pounding headache.

The only cure... I hate to say it... REST.

Take a week off.

I'm not a doctor but that's what happened to me and the rest helped. Good luck. I hope it goes away so you can get back to CrossFitting! :D

Dang Tamara. Strong work

Comment #294 - Posted by: AllisonNYC at November 4, 2008 3:09 PM

coach gives us our workouts, our results, and this forum for free. if the man wants to post an article, the last thing you should do, regardless of subject matter, is bitch and moan. don't read it if you don't want to read it, but don't tell the man what to put on his damn website.

Comment #295 - Posted by: antikrunk at November 4, 2008 3:11 PM

5Rx's 5 155# cleans 15pu's 200m run 25 su's...15:40

Comment #296 - Posted by: NickW at November 4, 2008 3:12 PM

Holy Schnikies!!!

Tamara, you are absolutely incredible! Anybody that says women can't do what men can do, should check out that video! That was inspiring stuff. My heaviest squat clean to date is 185! My max deadlift is 325! And you did reps with them! CrossFit women are amazing!

Comment #297 - Posted by: Reno_Ty at November 4, 2008 3:27 PM

#184 Chad,

I would highly recommend going to see a chiropractor. That sounds very much like something a chiropractor could treat. My money says you have a subluxation in your spine. Likely, it's in your neck.

I don't like the high-velocity adjustments. I personally am very wary of them. My chiro uses the Blair method (drop table). I sometimes have problems in my neck after doing a WOD like Nate. One visit to the chiro and I feel like million bucks!

If you are interested in finding a chiro in your area that practices the Blair method, send me an email and I'll ask my chiro. He is a really cool guy and would find out for me.

Good luck man!

Comment #298 - Posted by: Reno_Ty at November 4, 2008 3:34 PM

ran 5 to 6 miles today.

Comment #299 - Posted by: Thomas Baklayan at November 4, 2008 3:40 PM

Tamara- Sierra, Bennie and I are soooo impressed and lucky to have you as our friend.GREAT WORK WITH QUEEN KONG...

Comment #300 - Posted by: lance at November 4, 2008 3:41 PM

Why does everyone argue
about black and white
red and blue
when the reality is
shades of grey.

"It's amazing how many things are fundamentally not amenable to rational discourse. I enjoy that phenomenon in a fairly perverse way."
Comment #196 - Posted by: Coach June 11, 2008 9:28 AM

Comment #301 - Posted by: Reto at November 4, 2008 3:52 PM

Barry Cooper

I agree with everything you've said and unlike others here, I enjoy your posts. I learn a great deal from them. Unfortunately as Crossfit has gained more "mainstream" appeal the comments has become inundated with ignorant babble on rest days rather than thoughtful debate. For that reason I have stayed on the sidelines lately. There are guys that are worth debating with, you for one, but I usually share your views.

"Strike Fo"

Another strong showing today. Good points.

re: article

I see her point, not sure how true it is. I guess we'll find out soon enough. But remember one thing that Robert Kiyosaki says,"Democrats tax and spend, Republicans borrow and spend!" I don't place faith in any of them, but find comfort in knowing that all US Presidents pass through the hands of my Creator. So either way, May God Bless America!!

Comment #302 - Posted by: Jay M. in SC at November 4, 2008 3:56 PM

Tamara -

You never cease to amaze me.

Well done!

Comment #303 - Posted by: brad gilliatt at November 4, 2008 4:00 PM

If Obama is elected he will not destroy the capatist system. If McCain is elected he will not abolish taxation. Perhaps is the perverse two-party electoral system that leads us to argue as if it were so.

The role of government should not be to establish and enforce extreme political systems, but instead to find a balanced and effective way of organizing society. I would argue that some governments have come fairly close to finding that

Comment #304 - Posted by: Reto at November 4, 2008 4:01 PM

Thanks Allison NYC and Reno Ty.
Sucks to hear that I need to rest. I think that I will take advantage of the rest day and if I need to take a few more days. Also, try and stretch my shoulders, neck and upper back real good, because I am real stiff. If I am still getting headaches after all this then I will check out going to see a chiropractor.

Comment #305 - Posted by: Chad at November 4, 2008 4:15 PM

BTW, my chiropractor agrees with me that the reason I have problems with my neck is not due to CF. It's mainly because I work a desk job (programmer). I sit staring at a computer all day. CF just aggravates a problem created by my job. I don't know what you do. But I would say that CF is likely just exposing a problem, rather than causing it. But I could be wrong.

Comment #306 - Posted by: Reno_Ty at November 4, 2008 4:28 PM

Barry Cooper wrote: Deficit: yes, this is a problem. Bush faced a recession, and two wars. However, net tax receipts as a percentage of the GDP kept pace, and did so at a lower tax rate.

Kept pace? No.

Tax receipts as a percentage of GDP fell from 20% in 2000 to 16.2% in 2003. Now it's about 18.2%. It took six years of GDP growth to reach the 2000 level of tax revenue. Between 1995 and 2000, tax revenue increased 100 billion each year. Between 2001 and 2006, it increased 12 billion. That's in inflation adjusted dollars.

You can download this data from the White House web page. Visit the budget office page and download hist.pdf.

It will help you make an informed choice when you vote.

Comment #307 - Posted by: JOE at November 4, 2008 4:40 PM

41 m 190#

CFWU 2 X 15

Deck of Cards
95# thrusters
95# Sumo High pulls
Push ups
Air squats

50 Michigan Jumps (tuck jumps) on the jokers

32:00 low back was smoked, didn't do the last 3 cards so I gave myself a 3 min. penalty.

Comment #308 - Posted by: Sniper 64 at November 4, 2008 4:40 PM

Chad and Reno_TY

If I may, I would like to recommend probably the most helpful techniques that I've learned in the 2 yr of Crossfitting and 2 Certs. Jeff Martone teaches a great range of motion warmup for each major joint in the body. You can see a demo of this in the video of Greg A's warmup. I think if you will employ these everyday, it will improve your neck and shoulder issues, improving joint health by increasing perfusion, synovial fluid volume and dispersion, cartilage health, and joint capsule flexibility. My job forces me to sit in an awkward position for hours and these techniques have remarkably improved my joint health. All the credit goes to Martone, and I'd highly rec his KB cert if you can get to one.

As far as CrossFit and joint health, if your technique is pristine, the functional exercises are exponentially safer on the joints than any others, particularly isolation lifts, which are unnatural and particularly hard on ones that are predisposed to arthritis, ie: occupational related issues.

Comment #309 - Posted by: Jay M. in SC at November 4, 2008 4:45 PM


did the bear today


andy #258

you are awesome, for so many reasons.

Comment #310 - Posted by: nadia shatila at November 4, 2008 4:47 PM

nadia...the bear...7 reps in each round, right?

Comment #311 - Posted by: bingo at November 4, 2008 4:55 PM

Jay M in SC: That's right. I forgot about all of those drills. I was doing them for awhile after the KB cert and loved them.. But I'm lazy and I stopped doing them.

Thanks for the reminder. I'm going to start them up again :)

Comment #312 - Posted by: AllisonNYC at November 4, 2008 5:07 PM

Glad to see the Crossfit team reads zombie - he's one of the best. Although I don't share his confidence in America's ability to resist the PsyOps onslaught of Obama & pals.

Comment #313 - Posted by: rs at November 4, 2008 5:13 PM

New PR! 185# squat clean & jerk
I tried 225# an hour later but it was just a fast deadlift, I think I used up my ROM before second pull was finished. O well.


PS In reference to the above post, way above, I heard the same thing about Rome falling because of perverts and decadence. I feel like we are suffering the same fate.

Comment #314 - Posted by: Cain Morano at November 4, 2008 5:56 PM

Did Frindy tonight off the website. Hell of a workout. Check it out.

Comment #315 - Posted by: Joseph at November 4, 2008 6:00 PM

I wasn't saying that the military supports one candidate or another. I was saying that I don't know anyone in the military who is supporting McCain, which is not to say that I thought he had no military supporters. I'm a medic and work with other medics, so we do tend to see the consequences of war from a completely different perspective, which may skew our thoughts on conservative vs. liberal approaches to conflict.

People can support whoever they want whether they're in the military or not.

Comment #316 - Posted by: theresa at November 4, 2008 6:25 PM


I'm glad to hear you're doing those ROM warmups. Most of the younger folks I workout with barely warmup at all. Believe me, when you add 15 yr of joint mileage you will be glad you've spent the time caring for your them. Unfortunately, Jeff Martone and I shared the same "hard-headedness" as younger men and had to learn the hard way. His rehab story is remarkable.

Comment #317 - Posted by: Jay M. in SC at November 4, 2008 6:33 PM

So the question is, after this article writer eats his words tonight/tomorrow, will he admit that he was completely wrong?

I really doubt it. He'll probably come up with some new convoluted reasoning to resolve the cognitive dissonance of reality with the world inside of his head.

Comment #318 - Posted by: Jared at November 4, 2008 6:38 PM

did a made up wod today 100 135# deadlifts, 100 box jumps, 100 kettlebell swings. Took me 20:26. I would be interested for someone else to do it and tell me what they think.

Comment #319 - Posted by: jbear 34/m/72" 225 lbs. at November 4, 2008 6:39 PM

#319 jbear

I imagine those up to the challenge probably need to first know two things: the height of the box and the pood of the kettle bell.

I'm just sayin ~

Comment #320 - Posted by: Mark at November 4, 2008 6:44 PM

This article (and a whole lot of other similar articles) is is one of the many, many reasons the American political stinks. It is a lot easier to judge the other guy, and tell people what you don't like about someone else. All politicians (and most people) are pretty good at it.

I look at debates like this as a good learning opportunity, and was not disappointed. Seeing Sailor Erin's recommended clip about the discussion between Obama and Petraeus was informative (even if that clip doesn't change my overall views of Obama).

Regardless of what you think about the bias in the article here, the discussion here serves a purpose. Most of my friends and co-workers have silly, ignorant reasons for why they are voting for their respective candidate. If any of them would have read through this discussion, they would be more informed and more capable of making an educated choice.

As a side note - as I watch election results pour in... I think it just shows how ignorant we Americans are about our own political system. The entire Obama campaign is about CHANGE, and people are voting for OBAMA for a possible CHANGE, yet almost every single incumbent Senator and Congressman is winning by huge margins.

Change - schmange...

Comment #321 - Posted by: Jim Broun at November 4, 2008 6:52 PM


You are obvious a young ideologue not yet responsible for yourself from a wealth and well being perspective yet.

To answer your question, about as likely as Barney Frank and many other Dems will admit that they are largely responsible for the housing and sub-prime loan fiasco by placing political pressure on Fannie and Freddie to make home ownership "affordable" for everyone and ignoring gross signs of "the impending storm"!

You may be too young and naive to realize that the Political Spin works both ways. Keep drinking your Lefty Kool-Aid, we'll "spread some wealth" your way in due time. (If the early polling signs are accurate)

Comment #322 - Posted by: bkm at November 4, 2008 7:03 PM

#319, Im down, like Mark said, let us know what the height/weight was...

Comment #323 - Posted by: Donut 25/f at November 4, 2008 7:11 PM

Finally, Republicans will be back in the role that truly fits their collective abilities...out of power opposition party.
Thank Jebus.

PS Pukie Voted for Obama

Comment #324 - Posted by: Jubus_Maximus at November 4, 2008 7:12 PM

I don't know if you are talking to me, or some other Jared. I'm pretty sure you aren't talking to me, since I never asked any question about the sub-prime loan crisis.

Still, I feel compelled to comment on your history:As far as you blaming the crisis on the Democrats... I find it pretty absurd. The congress and presidency were both Republican until 2007. Blaming the party out of power for frenzied home buying and mortgages seems more like the tactic of an ideologue who always thinks his or her side is right. You probably heard this particular talking point listening to Rush Limbaugh.

Too many Jareds... The last thing this Jared is though is an ideologue.

Comment #325 - Posted by: Jared at November 4, 2008 7:19 PM

Get ready for Rhabdo!

Comment #326 - Posted by: Dbol at November 4, 2008 7:20 PM

Thanks for the great article Coach... keep em' coming. Some of us still support the right for an owner of their own site to post absolutely whatever they want.

Obama = doubleplus ungood

Comment #327 - Posted by: jefe at November 4, 2008 7:28 PM


You asked the question "will Zombie admit that he was wrong about this article" and I responded. If you are not the blatant leftwing "Jared" wasting blog space the whole day today, forgive me. And no I hate Rush Limbaugh, I do most of my conservative thinking for myself. I have seen numerous videos with Democrats defending the subprime lending by Freddie and Fannie and they set the lending standards for the private lendors. I am not a Republican and really don't like McCain, but both parties bare much blame for letting Wall Street run amuck.

As far as my experience vs being an ideologue, I currently run 3 private business with 50 employees in 3 states. I have more than one horse in this economic race and I can tell you we are "circling the wagons" with the impending political shift. Small bsinesses nationwide will be cutting there losses, and you will all feel that "crunch". But at least you'll have control again.

Comment #328 - Posted by: bkm at November 4, 2008 7:33 PM

What a laughable article. Here in the "Reality-Based" neighborhood of Fake America we are rejoicing. GOBAMA!

The funniest thing is that he says at the end that he cannot predict the future, just like "anyone else". Actually Karl Rove seems to have gotten it exactly correct.

The sweet, sweet irony!

Comment #329 - Posted by: Maximus @ CF East Bay 41/178#/5' 8" at November 4, 2008 7:40 PM

Welcome to the Banana Republic of America.

Comment #330 - Posted by: CCTJOEY at November 4, 2008 8:06 PM

Don't blame me - I voted for Cthulhu. Why choose a lesser evil?


Comment #331 - Posted by: Ron at November 4, 2008 8:15 PM

CCT JOEY #330 writes: "Welcome to the Banana Republic of America"

"banana republic"
a small country (especially in Central America) that is politically unstable and whose economy is dominated by foreign companies and depends on one export (such as bananas).

CCT Joey, I'm interested to know the rationale behind your use of the term in this context?

Comment #332 - Posted by: CPP at November 4, 2008 8:39 PM

got to stop drinking and posting..apologize for the last 2 posts.

Comment #333 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 9:24 PM

The term is of use because of the on-going corruption behind those governments and their collectivist nature. After watching the demonstration by Obama supporters in front of the White House tonight on C-Span with several hoistings of the old Soviet flag, my suspitions were confirmed. Between the demonstrators need to rattle the White house fence and hoist a true symbol of evil and mass slavery... I came to realize that I agree for once with President-Elect Obama's Pastor, Rev. Wright... America's Chickens, have come home to roost. literally. The movement of America haters, Capitalism despisors, Defence subversives, and domestic thugs, terrorists and freedom robbers of all sorts are sucking on their bongs tonight.

Perhaps no lesson will be harder to learn, or at least to recover from, for the confused youth of our nation, than the heavy mantle of collectivism saddled on our necks by "change" and "hope".

When the sweet school-girl excitement for the cult of personality of election is over, and the true nature of these people's beliefs and values is revealed... 2010 will not happen to soon for most.

The corruption of Chicago's election machine has hit prime-time and is accepted by the 4th estate.

Absolutely, we witnessed Banana Republic tactics in electioneering, intimidation, and media copitulation.

We should be ashamed, not because Sen. Obama was elected, but rather the nature of how it happened. Perhaps the most suprising is th vapid nature of movement.

After the Caesar throws the parties, will the citizens grow restless for more celebrations. for how long shall we celebrate the person, and not the office. Praise the personality, yet ignore the inexperience. Gaze fawningly at the presentation, but fail to listen to the words.

As if our brains are on auto-pilot, we are to believe that now we will all come together, get in line, and hand over the fruits of our labor, the means to our defence, and the opposing media representation. If you resist, you will be labeled a hater, red-neck, or a racist.

In an event that should be a celebration of our Freedom and triumph of our Liberties, we just sent Rugged Individualism away to summer camp at Red Square.

You don't know what you got until it's gone...

Comment #334 - Posted by: CCTJOEY at November 4, 2008 9:37 PM

Stop trying to scare people.

Go be afraid somewhere by yourself...

Comment #335 - Posted by: theresa at November 4, 2008 9:45 PM

sorry to theresa especially...theresa if it makes you feel better im pretty hungover.

Comment #336 - Posted by: jamesthered at November 4, 2008 9:46 PM

No sweat, James. You made today interesting.

Comment #337 - Posted by: theresa at November 4, 2008 9:48 PM


Respectfully disagree as to the existence of large scale dirty tricks electioneering to which you refer; don't believe evidence exists to support your charge.

As to your other points, I am willing to wait and see how President Obama will govern rather than coming to premature conclusions based on the campaign or media images from this evening. Those of us in the opposition will be responsible for articulating the rationale and values underlying our opposition. I remain confident in the efficiency of the marketplace of ideas if we take that responsibility seriously.

Comment #338 - Posted by: CPP at November 4, 2008 10:08 PM


I went through that exercise in detail a couple of weeks ago. Under Clinton, the Federal Government took in about 20% of GDP. Under Bush, it is about 18%. What is relevant, though, is the absolute receipts went up as if the tax cuts had not happened.

The argument that people make against supply side economics is simply that if you reduce your income by cutting taxes, you necessarily increase your deficit unless you cut spending drastically. However, if the pool from which you are drawing--the entirety of American economic output--is increasing, then a lower percentage of a higher number yields the same result as a higher percentage of a lower number. And it is less oppressive.

I made the case to my own satisfaction elsewhere a couple of weeks ago, using the actual budget numbers. Supply side economics works.

With respect to the election, thankfully Mitch McConnell held on to his seat. He ran against a corporate fat cat, who was running against corporate fat cats. The stink of hypocrisy was immense.

However, the Dem's are not in complete and utter control, I don't think.

I am going to shift to my hopeful mode. All the signs point to Obama being a unrepentant socialist, but he is intelligent. Perhaps he on some level has realized privately how stupid most of these policies are, and how they hurt the people most they are intended to help.

I didn't vote for him, and the people he has included in his life in the past scare the crap out of me, but I have never said it is inconceivable he could be a good President. I just don't think it is likely.

Let's hope for the best, and for the resiliency of the American system, and the American people, dunces though they may be.

(couldn't resist that last).

Comment #339 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 4, 2008 10:17 PM


Comment #340 - Posted by: Peter at November 4, 2008 11:00 PM

What a victory!

Comment #341 - Posted by: Nathan M at November 5, 2008 12:11 AM

yes we should!!!! yes we did!!! does it seem that crossfit might have a right wing bias??? i sure hope for peace!!!! f.s.p.p. por vida!!!

Comment #342 - Posted by: miguel at November 5, 2008 12:29 AM

Finally the american people have voted for a man that can bring some POSITIVE change for ppl, despite all the right-wing media bs. (Aka O`Reilly and his bunch)
Peace instead of war
Healthcare, Welfare, environment and security instead of war and all money to rich bankers, the army and executives

Comment #343 - Posted by: John at November 5, 2008 1:19 AM

I want to congratulate President-elect Barak Obama and all of his supporters. While not a supporter through the campaign, I am now. He will be my President; he will be our President.

My concerns about policies that I still believe will serve to impoverish the poor and middle class now give way to excitement and enthusiasm for this great country to have chosen, overwhelmingly, to put a Black man in the lands highest office. For this we can all be very, very, proud.

Comment #344 - Posted by: Coach at November 5, 2008 3:48 AM

Coach, Agreed. Though I disagree with the Preident-Elect...the landmark has finally been reached. So hopefully the quality of his character can now be observed, commented on, and opposed to without the further accusations of racial bias.

Character does indeed matter, and thus far I have a lot of doubts about the types of people our soon to be President has found himself mentoring under and surrounded by.

To further my point I would like to offer John #343 post as an example of the movement I describe in my post #334.

"Peace instead of war
Healthcare, Welfare, environment and security instead of war and all money to rich bankers, the army and executives"

And yes I did watch as President-Elect Obama supporters tried to hoist a Soviet Flag up in front of the White House.

Comment #345 - Posted by: CCTJOEY at November 5, 2008 4:19 AM

Started Crossfit 15 Sep 08 while deployed to the Mid East. Accomplished first (jumping) Pull-Up today, 4 Nov 08! (Thank you Leah for allof the are the best!)

Comment #346 - Posted by: BT at November 5, 2008 4:53 AM

I remember the feeling of despair I had when Bush was elected- to all the cons on the board- dont worry- it really is someone elses turn- thats what makes the country great- peaceful transfer of power. Democracy is in fact "perinneal" and one side is now appropriately dormant- it is fair and the only way to have a truly representative democracy. Republicans will be back with better ideas and new leaders to address the inevitable excesses of Dems.
Im happy with the results- but also havent forgotten that feeling- and believe me - for moderates living under neo cons it was frustrating. I dont wish it on anyone- peace- we are still all americans.

I voted for Obama- also voted for a libertarian (whoa- I cant stand them but liked this guy) and a republican in my local election.

The one thing that I did notice -with respect to race- the only people who brought it up on this board one way or another, were the ones who didnt like him - that tells me all I needed to know about several of you. Most pollsters say that race had little to do it- as well it shouldnt have- so the obsession in some of the posts here was... weird.

Comment #347 - Posted by: james at November 5, 2008 5:07 AM

Why is it that people cannot accept the idea that despite the shortcomings of our money-driven political system more citizens decided that Obama's message for the future was in line with their own vision than McCain's? Why does it have to be some type of manupulation or consipiracy that caused the result of this election? Most Americans are still center-Right moderates(especially on economic issues), and unfortunately the GOP has moved to far to the right on social and cultural issues for their tastes. Until the GOP faces this they will not be back in power. A shift toward Palin populism will not work - McCain was a step in the right direction until his ideals were hijacked by the GOP power base. They need to move back to the center on social issues before they can have any impact on the economic issues.

As for those describing the "end of our nation" please get real. This country has seen major shifts in government before and it will see them again. They have never produced the downfall that so many want to predict today. "We the people" as a nation are stronger than that.

Comment #348 - Posted by: EastIdaho at November 5, 2008 5:10 AM

Wow, Barry Cooper, you have certainly proved to us all that you are indeed the most long winded right wing CF-er here so I guess some sort of kudos are in order.

But when you drop a gem like -

"What is the evidence of George Bush's catastrophic failures? None that I can see."

- to start yet another neo-con cool-aid induced puke all just seems silly.

Sort of like when McCain said he thought the economy was doing great a few hours before the banks started to implode. Huh?

I guess my question to you is? Do you really believe the crap you dish out in droves on here? And who are you trying to fool? Yourself perhaps?

If your vision is so clouded by feeling the need to toe the right-wing party line at all costs that you can't see the failures of GW's administration then I don't think any of us pointing out the obvious to you is going to help.

But hey, good luck to you.

Comment #349 - Posted by: dtt at November 5, 2008 5:35 AM

Well said, Coach.

You and your wife have created something unique and extraordinarily powerful, and helpful to many, especially those who put themselves in harms way (The First Responder and Armed Forces community).

Thanks again for all you do, and to me you are indeed great Americans.

Comment #350 - Posted by: Greg/48/70"/205/3/17/08 at November 5, 2008 6:16 AM

#320 Mark and #323 Donut
My bad gentlemen. To be specific, I did
100 135# deadlift
100 22" box jumps
100 swings with a 40lb. dumbell (not kettlebell)
for a time of 20:26.
If you do it let me know what you got and what you thought about it. I got killed on the box jumps.

Comment #351 - Posted by: jbear 34/m/72" 225 lbs. at November 5, 2008 6:17 AM

Another right-wing political article from Crossfit. Seriously, how about focusing on working out?

Interestingly, I've seen lots of commenters saying the same thing: Keep the politics where it belongs, and talk about fitness on this site. I wonder if this blog even reads its comments?

Comment #352 - Posted by: Matt at November 5, 2008 7:51 AM

#349 Amen to that, brother! Some people never get the obvious...

Comment #353 - Posted by: MikeyP at November 5, 2008 9:53 AM

Barry tends to complain of being a martyr, when I remember not too long ago that he accused me of spreading "Communist Agitprop" and insulting me without any sort of proof. St. Sebastian's clothes don't suit you, Barry.

Comment #354 - Posted by: Nick 24/M/205 at November 5, 2008 9:55 AM


rest day, but rode stationary bike for a little over an hr and then boxed and grappled for over an hr for the first time in many moons

Comment #355 - Posted by: fat tony at November 5, 2008 10:06 AM

The results are in and I'm not sure a stronger repudiation of the article's assertions could be made. Either the psychological manipulations didn't exist, or they did and the American people made their choice with the knowledge of them. Either way, this is the "blunder" that never was.

Comment #356 - Posted by: Bladerunner at November 5, 2008 11:07 AM


Where was the beef? Was there content there? None that I can see.

You say: "If your vision is so clouded by feeling the need to toe the right-wing party line at all costs that you can't see the failures of GW's administration then I don't think any of us pointing out the obvious to you is going to help."

Put up or shut up, jackass. I'm tired of this crap. I'm here to debate. You pick a topic, ANY TOPIC, and I will run you into the ground. This is why snide comments are not just the order of today, but any day and any place where Leftists congregate.

Your self congratulatory insults are not going to fly here. This is not DailyKos or Thinking goes on here. If you want to check your brain at the door, do it somewhere else.

I repeat: pick any one area where you view George Bush to have been a catastrophic, historically aberrational failure. Do it, or shut up. Very simple proposition. I know you can't do it. Do you know this?


I'm not playing the martyr. I am communicating my feelings honestly, and working to act in a manner other than the hysterical children who hyperventilated for 8 years after Bush was elected. Did the Left offer any congratulations to Bush? I don't remember it. They don't try to build anything, ever. They destroy what they can, and they play silently when they have to.

Comment #357 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 5, 2008 11:08 AM

Let's knock off the political crap and stick to issues dealing with working out. I get enough politics in real life; don't need it or want it in this forum.

Comment #358 - Posted by: Tony at November 5, 2008 11:52 AM

Comment #304 - Posted by: Reto
“but instead to find a balanced and effective way of organizing society. I would argue that some governments have come fairly close to finding that”
Reto, we may be talking past each other due to the limits of brief posts, but I would posit that governments only organize societies of non-free citizens. To the extent that citizens have freedom, they organize their own activities by their free choices of association and economic activity. The Freedom Indexes show - where people have more liberty, they have more wealth, which is the relevant statistic if you care about ensuring that those on the bottom half of the economic scale have 'enough' or at least more than when govt gets a larger hand in picking out the winners and losers.

I believe Govt exists to defend the rights of the individual, and define a ‘right’ simply as “my rights end where your nose or your property begins.” When govt can defend the rights of the citizenry, they organize themselves. This arrangement of society produces the best outcomes for all.

Govt, on the other hand, has only one way to ‘organize’ a society – coercion. “Do it as we direct, or we send people with guns to find you.” In the macro sense, you see this playing out in the red-state blue state conflict (visible in US politics since at least the ‘Great Compromise’ in the US Constitution) in which the minority (red staters) fears the use of the coercive power of the state by the blue staters to enforce blue state values (collectivism, statism) on red state citizenry.

The Leftists justify the use of the coercive power of the state, it’s intrusion on and intolerance of liberty, by their belief that the ends (equality being the highest of all possible outcomes) justifies the means. Sadly, it appears to me that the striving for equality in fact creates stratifications, and that those at the bottom suffer the most when well intentioned govt interventions put a brake on economic growth and the natural dispersion of wealth free trade engenders.

There is a test for these theories coming – if an Obama administration intrudes on liberty as powerfully as he has promised to, the result will be like the Nixon/Ford/Carter economic malaise. Each coercive intervention will create negative eventualities that will become the basis for ever greater intervention. Full manifestation will be realized when the US is as helpless to oppose the tyrants of the world as the Europeans are and have been. I hope it does not come to that – too many of our citizens will suffer unnecessarily, especially those with the least resources as we fall into the fiscal death spiral.

For me, the first post election challenge is to take advantage of each of the moments I’m given which means I will not indulge in the negative emotion as I did when Pres Clinton was in office. That negativity did nothing to hurt the lying SOB but diminished my life. The joke was on me. I believe in the creative, life enhancing power of liberty but I don’t believe it will help anyone’s liberty to walk around worrying about what Obama and his buds will do – better to do a few more thrusters and help others to do the same (and keep learning how to articulate the case for liberty as best I can).


Comment #359 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 074 205 44 yoa at November 5, 2008 12:14 PM


A lot of the readers of this forum have spent the last few years getting shot at, and otherwise dedicating themselves to the War on Terror. It is not an abstraction for them, and the policies of the new Administration will have concrete consequences.

The right to free speech does not exist to protect p0rnography. It exists to allow any and all positions on any issue--even ones well out of step with mainstream thinking--to be expressed in the hope that through the process of vigorous, and well intentioned clash better ideas will win out over inferior ideas.

A sound mind in a sound body was once offered as the shortest definition of happiness, and we work to build both here. I will add that Rest Days are only every four days.

It boggles my mind that people intentionally click on the Comments, then complain about it.

Do you hit yourself on the head with bottles, and then complain about how hard they make them?

Comment #360 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 5, 2008 12:22 PM

All I can say to the liberal left is this:

President Bush kept us safe here in our home land. If our enemies attack us after he is gone, that blood will be on every single fool that voted for the coming American socialist.

Comment #361 - Posted by: Big Daddy at November 5, 2008 12:24 PM

Barry: you say you're trying to avoid acting like "hysterical children who hyperventilated" over Bush.
From your earlier posts in this thread:
"My only hope is that our democracy survives four years, so we can ride him out on a pole, following he inevitable debacle his ill-founded ideological dogmatism will foster."
You seem to be breathing rather heavily there.
"[T]he last two generations of our educational system have produced PC-programmed, morally challenged, philosphically, politically, and economically illiterate thugs".
Pant, pant, pant!
"Put up or shut up, jackass."
Huff! Huff!

Y'know, I won't argue that you make some good points; I might disagree on some things, but I can usually see some foundation. What I object to, however, is your sanctimonious, holier-than-thou screeching about being attacked and how awful those darn pinko Leftists are. You have, of course, every right to make points and argue your views, but you don't have the right to slam people and then preemptively cry about attacks upon yourself.

Comment #362 - Posted by: Nick 24/M/205 at November 5, 2008 12:36 PM

Peace all. My father was a Black airman stationed in Mississippi in 1953. His command ordered all Black airman to wear only civvies off-base as the local populace was keen to attacking and in a few instances, killing uniformed Black military personnel. Imagine this - 50 years later he gets to vote for a Black man for president and sees this incredible achievement in his lifetime. Even more wonderful - Obama's supporters were truly diverse on so many levels.

I think so many detractors are getting it wrong about what people hope for in an Obama presidency. Although some look at his approach to taxes as a gateway to a Marxian paradise, most Obama supporters are actually excited at the prospect of a leader who wants to lead the United States, not just so-called Red states. I think there is something really special about a mixed-race citizen raised by a white single mom and her parents who ascends to the most powerful elected office in the world. I believe that this will lead to an eventual abandonement of the racial-pathology that has been a part of this great country's existence. Being mixed myself (Thai mother, Black father), I can't help but feel proud for Obama and for our country. We move forward with love, hope and clarity from this moment. Just take a minute to breathe this in and celebrate this historic occasion.

Lastly, I believe Obama's detractors will be pleasantly surprised at who becomes part of his cabinet. He understands that he will be President to all Americans and his administration will reflect that fact. It's all good, we're gonna be alright.


Comment #363 - Posted by: phillip at November 5, 2008 12:40 PM


I won't be using the same label for Obama for the next however many years without ANY effort to justify it. I've been watching people call Bush everything but a swell fellow, and you know what? None of it stands up. None of it. He's not perfect, but I can't think of ANY cases where he bears full blame for anything, or where Democrats get a full pass.

This whole campaign has been a masterpiece of propaganda. You know why Obama didn't run attack ads? Bloggers like you have been assaulting Bush in the most vicious, general, and content free manner imaginable since before he was elected.

There was no pause to recognize that he, too, was an American entitled to his own opinions. There was instantaneous and lasting, blanket condemnation which was repeated by rote until the feeble minded, hateful, and ignorant took up the cry. This is what we are seeing today.

I'll get over it. I always do. There are an infinite number of ways to spend time more productively than whining. At the same time, it is my committment to tell the truth as I see it, somewhere. That place is here.

The last time we saw a perfect storm like this--clear Democratic dominance, in the Carter Administration--we got a screwed up economy, massive setbacks in our foreign policy, straight jackets on our intelligence services, and bloated entitlements for the lazy and irresponsible.

And yet because Obama is articulate, somehow we are going to improve something? Hitler was articulate too. He made his name--not as an erudite policy person, or accomplished member of the German political system--but as an orator. That is not bombastic; that is relevant.

As I said, it's not impossible Obama will do a good job, but I see few signs of it. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are already plotting their legislative hit list, which is going to include massive funding for global warming "remediation", and likely an end to the War in Iraq as quickly as possible, regardless of the consequences.

If he sticks to the 16 months he's pledged, we might just be OK, but he knew during his campaign he couldn't keep all his promises, which means he was lying. We'll find out soon enough which parts he was being dishonest about. A Balanced Budget is a given.

Comment #364 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 5, 2008 12:52 PM

362-phillip; I hope you are correct. Paul

Comment #365 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 074 205 44 yoa at November 5, 2008 1:38 PM

10 rounds plus 10 thrusters
(did reverse order on accident)

Comment #366 - Posted by: Charbs m/22/185 at November 5, 2008 2:08 PM

For those of you who think Obama is a socialist for wanting to redistribute income, consider the following:

Between 1993 and 2000, under a Democrat executive and a Republican Congress, the lowest income bracket was taxed at 15%, and the highest at 39.6%.

In 2001-2002, with a Republican executive and a split Congress the figures by year were:
- 15% and 39.1%
- 10% and 38.6%

Between 2003-2008, with a Republican executive throughout, a Republican Congress from 2003-2006, and a Democratic Congress in 2007, the figures were steady at 10% and 35%.

As far as I understand it, Obama's plans (today) are to raise the top rate to 39.6% but to exempt that increase from married couples making less than 250k and single earners making less than 200k.

Now,the top tax rate will be 0.5% higher than it was during Bush's first term, and 4.6% higher than it was in Bush's second term. It will also be 1.1% higher than under Reagan in 1987.

With a range like this, if you believe Obama is a socialist, perhaps you should also believe Reagan, Bush1, Gingrich, Clinton, Bush2 and Pelosi were/are socialists?

The supposedly deep divisions on questions of economic freedom between the Democrats and the Republicans remind me of the diffrences between the Tramecksan and Slamecksan parties in Swift's Gulliver's Travels.

Comment #367 - Posted by: Prole at November 5, 2008 2:49 PM


If you would, perhaps you could address the announced plans to increase the capital gains tax. And the payroll tax. And the plans to remove the income cap on the social security tax. Etc., etc., etc.

Comment #368 - Posted by: bingo at November 5, 2008 4:26 PM

#54 Apolloswabbie posted: “Every rest day article as I read (assuming I have time to read it) I wonder 'why did Coach and Lauren pick this one?' Usually the answer illuminates one of a few themes - inferiority of govt for solving human problems/meeting human needs, the inevitability of govt's infringement upon liberty in any effort to create a positive outcome, perhaps a theme is the inevitability that govt's efforts at problem solving today create the negative eventualities that justify additional govt interventions tomorrow. Other themes include trends in business, trends in fitness, elements of business that highlight why CrossFit is what it is or does what it does, and/or the politicization of science and negative impact of same.
This one is interesting in that it's part of a small but focused group of media pieces that points out that the perception created by repetition of the same theme ad nauseum is compelling - but not always.
There's more there, but my answer for tonight is that Coach and Lauren posted this one purely for the contrarian, interesting perspective.”

#344 Coach posted: “I want to congratulate President-elect Barak Obama and all of his supporters. While not a supporter through the campaign, I am now. He will be my President; he will be our President.
My concerns about policies that I still believe will serve to impoverish the poor and middle class now give way to excitement and enthusiasm for this great country to have chosen, overwhelmingly, to put a Black man in the lands highest office. For this we can all be very, very, proud.”

I quote these two because I think they should be re-read by many of those who have commented previously. It seems to me that that a great many missed the point, as I believe was pointed out very clearly by Apolloswabbie. I think he’s on to something here folks...

I think it is possible Coach posts these articles because, like # 301 quotes,

"It's amazing how many things are fundamentally not amenable to rational discourse. I enjoy that phenomenon in a fairly perverse way."
-Comment #196 - Posted by: Coach June 11, 2008 9:28 AM

or perhaps Coach is watching to see if we could actually learn to amend our differences through rational discourse? Like for instance: the way we learned how to squat, deadlift, push-jerk, etc through CrossFit... Or maybe not.

Either way, the "can't we just workout" comments constantly amaze me, but finding the funny and informative ones always make sorting through the crap worthwhile. Just my $.02

My thanks to Coach for... well, everything. Especially the rest days.

Comment #369 - Posted by: Aaron Arehart at November 5, 2008 5:22 PM

Prole, taxes aren't the half of it. It's the socialist dogma, rooted in his apparent deeply held beliefs that govt interventions can improve ... anything. His deep conviction that govt, vice liberty, creates what is 'better.' That's what makes him a 'neo-socialist.'

If you would like to make the point that other presidents of various flavors have held to no ideal in tax policy - point taken. I would also note that the GOP lost its way by taking the road you described, which was well articulated by Dick Armey when he resigned; more or less, he said, "we worked hard to win power because we believed in liberty, and now we have power and we're betraying all that we held dear." That's why they were abandoned by many - they left us first.


Comment #370 - Posted by: Apolloswabbie 6'2" 205 44 yoa at November 5, 2008 5:35 PM

two points:

to quote billy connolly- 'anyone who fancies themselves as a politician has,by that decision, identified themselves as unfit for office, and should be banned automatically from contention'

to quote someone else- 'US politics is controlled by two ideologically identical parties deeply divided on the topic of abortion'

my advice as a foreigner- how about you all come down off your ideologically polarized high horses, and understand that a politician will say whatever he thinks you want to hear to get your vote, noble left- or right-wing posturing be damned.

the proof shall b e in the pudding, regardless of the outcome.

Comment #371 - Posted by: tino at November 5, 2008 7:00 PM


Had to sub running with rowing (800m) because I was at school.

Damn school is getting in the way :(

AND I'm behind on my pushies.

Comment #372 - Posted by: Melissa Cvjeticanin CF Mississauga at November 5, 2008 8:16 PM

I am a canadian labour lawyer and I am curious that very little attention appears to have been paid to Obama's plan to introduce card based certifications for trade unions (ie. a union that gets enough employees to simply sign a membership card gets certified without a vote). This is a contentious topic even here and was elimated in British Columbia (a heavily unionized province). Is it my limited access to American news or did this issue seem to slip under the radar? If such a plan is introduced, I think you can expect to see a spike in union organizing efforts. I am actually an Obama supporter but do not believe this change in policy will be beneficial to anyone and is antithetical to the ideals of democracy. Any thoughts on this?

Comment #373 - Posted by: Surricane at November 5, 2008 8:45 PM

A recap of the polls. Which were the most accurate.

Comment #374 - Posted by: trace at November 5, 2008 8:47 PM


That is a substantive submission. That is the sort of thing from which debates should be conducted.

As I understand the issue, some 600,000 small business will see their taxes go up substantially. The $250,000 number is for HOUSEHOLDS.

He is going to eliminate the roughly $110,000 cap on payroll taxes. Since most small businesses must match (7.5% to 7.5%, if I'm not mistaken) the Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid tax, their effective taxes will go up substantially.

Capital gains taxes will go up considerably, as will Estate Taxes (which Bush lobbied hard to abolish) and taxes on dividends (not sure if that counts as Capital Gains, which I think mainly applies to profit from home sales).

Overall, he has often promised no tax increases for 95% of the population. If he is to balance the budget--particularly given his many planned increases in expenditures--he will have to get that money from 5% of the population.

Now, I don't expect him to even propose a balanced budget, much less push one through, but the basic intention appears to in effect enact the polar opposite of the "tax cut for the rich".

He wants to take from the rich, and increase the amounts disbursed to the poor, not least through tax refunds for money not paid.

We'll have to see what happens. He can't possibly keep all of his promises.

I'll have more to say tomorrow, but its past time for bed.

Comment #375 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 5, 2008 8:53 PM


Capital Gains:
Obama's plan for taxing capital gains (today): rates steady for families with incomes >250k; top rate of 20%. This top rate is lower than or equal to (at 20%) every year a Republican has been in the Whitehouse other than BushII 2003-2008 (15%) and the first two years of the Depression (12%) [a useful historical overview is available at:

Payroll/Social Security:
As far as I can tell, Obama's plan (today) is to impose the 6.2% payroll tax on incomes over 250k. Currently all income > 102k is exempt. So, his plan is to NOT raise the current 6.2% payroll tax on those earning 250k. Is it socialist to NOT impose a tax on income 102-250k that will be imposed on incomes below 102k? You be the judge.

As far as "etc. etc." goes, I agree this is troubling. The 16thC Lutheran deacon from Heidelburgh. Dr. Koldt Beers, warned that the Latin abbreviation "etc." was the literary advance guard of a Papal strategy aimed at undermining the free German Nobility by encouraging them to substitute Mediterranean insulin-producing cereals for whole proteins.


Let us admit there is a surplus of dogma. I think that if you want to make the case that government interventions "cannot" improve anything, you must be able to establish that they "have not" improved anything. I can think of a number of examples that seem to favour the conclusion that government has improved some things. "Neo-socialist" sounds to me like "Mixed-economiest", and that is what the United States has been for many generations, and in that time it has established itself as the wealthiest and freest, mass society in history, and also one of the most durable.

My point is that there is a real difference between someone like Ron Paul and Obama/McCain/Bush, but not between the last three. On some issues Ron Paul shares far more with Obama than with McCain/Bush/Project for the New American Century, and on others he shares more with Bush. The Project for the New American Century shares more with Lenin or King Edward I, than with either Ron Paul or Obama.

Anyway Apollo, I don't know you, but based on what I know of you through your posting on this website over the past couple of years, I hope you don't take this Obama "nonsense" too hard (you too Barry). I don't think Obama's proposing a revolution, and I do think he is smart, hard-working and perceptive. Additionally, I think he really really likes to be liked, so he's likely to reach out. Perhaps he would listen to someone like you. And finally, in the long run (as the economists like to say), it is important that a black man has just reached the most powerful office in the world by the collective choice of millions of citizens of the freest nation on earth.

I think your candidate (whatever his or her beliefs) will be better next time because of this.

Comment #376 - Posted by: Prole at November 5, 2008 9:08 PM


"President Bush kept us safe here in our home land."

I can think of a particular day when he didn't.

Comment #377 - Posted by: Lisa Clarkson at November 5, 2008 9:12 PM

In response to #377:

The attacks on September 11 were so unexpected that nobody could have possibly predicted or prepared for what happened. To blame those attacks on any 1 man other than Binladen is a disgusting example of how biased and misled you democrats are.

And here I thought Crossfitters had more sense than that.

Comment #378 - Posted by: Andrew at November 6, 2008 12:57 AM


With respect to the payroll tax, he is eliminating the exemption for incomes over $100,000. Moreover, you have to keep in mind that that tax has to be matched by employers, so this amounts to 6-7% hike on the COMPANIES taxes, with respect to those people.

To this whole mix as well must be added the fact that Bush's tax cuts will expire. This means that when he is promising 95% of the people will not see new taxes, what he means is "other than you would have seen anyway".

Overall, it is conceivable that the plan--as it stands today--MIGHT not have the deleterious effect many of us fear. Clinton did not end the world or wreck our economy in 1993.

However, it needs to be made clear that the underlying fear--which is quite valid--is that Obama is an enormous cipher. He has promised to balance the budget, increase expenditures, and cut taxes for all but 5% of Americans. He can't do this. The obvious failure will be his committment to balance the budget, but why make that promise--why talk about how this needs to be done--while making NO effect whatever to do it?

Maybe Bush made the same promise. I don't remember. However, the clear, unambiguous fact is that we just elected a man with almost no record, and whose record--such that it exists--is one of extreme partisanship, and politics that have been described as "left of liberal".

When he rolls out his proposals, we can look at them and see what direction he intends to go. He can go one of two directions: toward his rhetoric, or towards his record. Let us all hope he moves towards his rhetoric.

Comment #379 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 5:20 AM

"The Project for the New American Century shares more with Lenin or King Edward I, than with either Ron Paul or Obama."

You understand this is an utterly untenable statement, don't you? We are not building an empire, or trying by force to coerce the world into our way of thinking. We will leave Iraq and Afghanistan in the hands of their people. Britain went into many nations, and half completed their project. This was the worst of all worlds. All they did was train their subjects in the ways and means of mass murder. They should have stayed everywhere another 50 years. Churchill was right.

Comment #380 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 5:23 AM

The electoral margin as it stands right now is about 52% - 46%. Looks like the polls were accurate afterall. If anything the pre-election polls had the race closer in favor of McCain.

So thanks for the pseudo-reasoning from the ideological elite! November 4 clearly demonstrated the fallacy of the article's argument.

Comment #381 - Posted by: tr at November 6, 2008 5:24 AM

With respect to Lenin, you are speaking of the Godfather of the most murderous system of government ever inflicted on the human race, whose history is replete with the most horrific atrocities. I just got "The Black Book of Communism", because while the Third Reich had its Anne Frank, Lenin and Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot never did. On the contrary, they have had multiple generations of apologists.

Comment #382 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 5:24 AM

Did you know the Weather Underground plotted to kill more people than Hitler did? They wanted to murder an estimated 25 million Americans who did not respond to their reeducation in camps planned in the Southwest. Lunacy? Of course. But he was quite serious, and had he won power, he would have done it. It's what they did in Russia, and China, and Vietnam, and Laos, and Cambodia.

Comment #383 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 5:28 AM

Is 0bama in his circle of influence? Not likely. Aeyrs' students at the Univ of Illinois would be more likely candidates. Despite being unrepentant, the short memory of people, and their naivete, have caused people around him to forget he once looked at them--likely still does, in most cases--as bourgeois cattle eligible for either successful brainwashing, or slaughter. I don't know why people like that get employed.

A would-be, but unsuccessful, mass murderer is teaching our kids-something.

Einstein once said that only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And he added he wasn't sure about the universe.

Comment #384 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 5:31 AM

I'm sorry to be blabbing so much. In my defense, I have received some encouragement, which I appreciate.

I did want to add one thing (before I add another, in an hour or a day): I listened to talk radio yesterday, which I rarely do. I was driving, and decided to listen to Rush, and one called, I think "the right balance", and Mike Gallagher.

One theme that popped up several times was Ronald Reagan, as the model to which we should return.

Since our collective memories are short, perhaps he is as far as we can go, but it needs to be pointed out that Reagan did not go far enough. He won the Cold War, and he instituted some very helpful structual reforms with respect to the tax code--which had gotten ridiculous after 20 some odd years of strong Democratic Congressional majorities, and mostly Democratic Presidents.

However, he did nothing to shrink government. He expanded it. For that reason, he should not be our model.

Conservatives tend to look to the past, but that need not be our only guide. Why not invent a new conservatism--a seeming oxymoron--which hews closely core principles, and seeks mainly the means by which to express them in public policy?

I submit as our models three texts: Hayek's "The Fatal Conceit", Mill's "On Liberty", and Burke's "Reflections concerning (on?)the French Revolution".

Foundationally, there is nothing radical or unreasonable in any of those texts, EXCEPT FROM A LEFTIST PERSPECTIVE.

Comment #385 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 6:49 AM

tr #381,

I didn't like the article either. I recommended that we not use it.

But...unlike you, I read and understood it. The article described a feedback loop of polling as a strategy and predicted it would fail at election. The polling feedback phenomenon may or may not be real - I think it is. That it failed as a strategy, if it indeed existed, is clearly supported by the election results and was discussed as a distinct possibility by the author, if I recall correctly. One of the things that I didn't like about the article was that I thought the feedback polling strategy was effective and would win the election for Senator Obama. And...more importantly I thought that the major premise couldn't be demonstrated or refuted adequately by the election results. It seemed to be a weakly testable proposition, something I'm not a fan of.

Do you get the difference now between what was in the article and your take on it?

I'd like to think that my opinions on any political issue or candidate never become so strident that my capacity for rational discourse and reading comprehension abandon me entirely. I'm guessing you're one of those who hate George Bush with a passion. Hopefully President Obama can heal much of the pathology that infects our politics and discourse.

Comment #386 - Posted by: Coach at November 6, 2008 7:39 AM


"The attacks on September 11 were so unexpected that nobody could have possibly predicted or prepared for what happened. To blame those attacks on any 1 man other than Binladen is a disgusting example of how biased and misled you democrats are."

Quite a jump you made there about my political affiliation, and an incorrect one.

Inform thyself:,_2001

Comment #387 - Posted by: Lisa Clarkson at November 6, 2008 8:14 AM


There were any number of books which had Bin Laden attacking somewhere. Andy McNab's first book had a Bin Laden attack on the President as its premise, if memory serves.

Today, we know there are terrorist groups who--if they could--would attack us in a heartbeat. It is their lack of capacity, not their lack of desire, that protects us. This is the point of the War on Terror, and the reason the preemptive intelligence that the Patriot Act can provide is so essential.

All your link shows is that there was intelligence that Bin Laden wanted to attack. Nothing about where or how. There was some evidence gathered by the FBI, but that never made it to the President's desk, and interagency lack of cooperation--in part no doubt a relic of the shake-ups in the 70's under Democrats, best exemplified by FISA--prevented a full picture from emerging which was actionable.

There is nothing Bush could have done to prevent attacks which were different than any before, and which were conducted with surprise, and a high level of organization and discipline.

This is yet another of these cases where someone takes a little information, a lot of presumption, and makes a "case" which folds under even superficial analysis.

But superficiality is all the Left has. If they were intelligent and informed, they would be moderates or conservatives.

On a tangential--but not wholly unrelated--note, the following video is very funny:

Comment #388 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 8:53 AM


With respect to your comment that the communist dirge in its various forms awaits its Anne Frank: what about Solzhenitsyn and his “Gulag Archipelago”? This book had quite an effect on me when I read it in my late teens. It’s style is not scholarly (though it is heavily footnoted I seem to remember), and it's a good read (though I found it difficult to stomach in more than 1 hour increments). Solzhenitsyn is sometimes ambiguous and often idiosyncratic, but these traits help him to paint a terrifying, absurd, at times tragically comical portrait of the USSR. His picture is humane, not ideological; uncompromising, not apologetic. He often points out stark moral dilemmas people face when living under a jack-boot, and he asks his readers to make a committment to one course of action over another. These things are not abstract or hypothetical for him. One of his points is that it the USSR bad from the beginning, that it makes little sense to distinguish between the evil of Stalin's regime and the evil of Lenin's regime as western apologists did for so long. He was an engineer who received a degree in mathematics and physics. He commanded an artillery company and was at the front from 1942-45. He was sent to the gulag for 8 years after some of his letters containing critical comments about Stalin were intercepted by the authorities in 1945. He was a life-long socialist and an Orthodox Christian. He published many of his criticisms of the USSR while living there.

I like your model texts. I’d add Machiavelli’s Discourses on Livy (or Montesquieu) because I think you need some less polemical history than Burke’s to make sense of the rough and tumble unfolding of history.

Comment #389 - Posted by: Prole at November 6, 2008 9:11 AM

378 "The attacks on September 11 were so unexpected that nobody could have possibly predicted or prepared for what happened. To blame those attacks on any 1 man other than Binladen is a disgusting example of how biased and misled you democrats are."

Someone needs to read the 9/11 report.We had all the information we needed to stop the attacks, but failed to share it and exploit it appropriately. Of course W isn't personnally responsible for the attacks, but it did happen under his watch. If you are willing to project the responsibility of any future attacks on the US onto President-elect Obama, then to have any credibility, you need to apply your poorly reasoned blame for 9/11 onto President Bush. Both assertions are utter nonsense, but at least it would get you out from underneath your hypocrisy.

Comment #390 - Posted by: Bladerunner at November 6, 2008 9:46 AM

#390: Are you saying that Bush was told that a dozen or so Arabs armed with carpet knives were going to hijack planes and fly them into civilian targets of high symbolic value, and chose to ignore it?


I haven't read that. I've had "The Prince" and another--is it "Discourses"?--on my shelf forever, and just haven't got around to it.

With respect to Gulag Archipelago, true enough, but that is something for thinking people. Most people don't think. Anne Frank is powerful because she is a little girl, and her diary humanizes her in very touching ways. I would guess that as few high school students avoid reading her book, as actually do read even a portion of the Gulag Archipelago.

What I would like to see is a cinematic portrayal of the Ukrainian Famine. Stark images of 5,000 or more square miles denuded of life. Babies shriveling on dead mothers.

I would like to see Hollywood show the effects of the Cultural Revolution, coupled with Mao's sociopathic ideosyncrasies. I would like to see heroic CIA agents trying to win the battle in 1948 or whenever Chiang's Nationalists finally fell.

I would like to see a sincere portrayal of the after-effects of our failure in Vietnam, using as a narrative focus say Doan Van Toai, a former committed Communist, betrayed by his own side.

We have many unrepentant Communists throughout our academic world, including Bill Ayers. The truth needs to be told.

Comment #391 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 10:17 AM


".....Famine. Stark images of 5,000 or more square miles denuded of life. Babies shriveling on dead mothers."

Wow! Forget your day job. Take a flight to the DRCongo and start dispatching. I'll expect to hear you on BBC's World Service before Christmas.

Comment #392 - Posted by: Prole at November 6, 2008 11:00 AM

Remember when mothers used to tell their kids "eat your food, there are kids starving in China"?

Mao caused those famines, through stupidity. The phrase should have been "there are kids starving in China because Communism is an evil and stupid doctrine".

Stalin caused his in order to kill millions for daring to "hoard" their own food, to the detriment of the "public good".

Seldom is the malignancy associated with a doctrine so unmixed and unambiguous as it is with Communism. You can point to good and bad aspects of Capitalism, or the Social democracies of Europe. I am at a loss as to a single benefit of Communism, other than their having funded some scientific researach that couldn't get a hearing anywhere else. Politically, morally, economically, and philosophically it is a bankrupt and degraded way of thinking and acting, suitable only for those with sadomasochistic tendencies.

The only difference between the illiterate thugs in the SA and the thugs Lenin gathered around him was that the latter were able to rationalize their cruelty--they were intellectuals, after all--and the former never bothered.

Comment #393 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 11:13 AM


Barry, no I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that various agencies of the U.S. government had a body of intelligence, that, if collaborated about properly, may very well have been able to prevent (or mitigate the effects of) the attacks. But we didn't have the organization communication at that time to process and act on the body of intelligence. The 9/11 report and the organizational changes made as a result state as much.

My primary point of contention was the original poster's position that any future attacks will be the fault of the President, but not so for those that occurred in the past. It's a transparent double standard that exposes a bias, not a rationalle.

Comment #394 - Posted by: Bladerunner at November 6, 2008 11:17 AM

I think it depends on the case. What did they know, what did they do. In this case, I don't think Bush can be faulted for any major failure. With respect to future attacks, if any, we'll just have to wait and see what it is, then decide what if anything should have been done differently.

It is highly hypocritical for the Left to continually cite Bush's alleged intelligence failures at the same time they are condemning his alleged breaches of the Constitution for insisting on the revisions to FISA normally called the Patriot Act.

One could conclude--correctly in my view--that the point of the criticisms is the criticisms, not improvement of any aspect of governement, anywhere, from top to bottom. If it's Bush's policy, it must be opposed. If it demonizes Bush, it must be front page news.

I have yet to meet one Bush hater that knows as much about him as I know about Obama. And I don't hate him--there is not enough information out there for anyone except possibly his closest associated to say what he really thinks, or who he really is. He could be anything from a moderate Clintonian to a Manchurian Candidate. We just don't know.

However, when he does begin to make actual decisions, I will base any critiques I might make on his ideas, and the thinking underlying him. I will not label him, then think that suffices for anything but my own amusement.

Comment #395 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 11:42 AM sort of drifted quite far from the scope of my discussion there, but what you said sounds reasonable...I agree that faulting W for 9/11 is non-sensical.

I understand your point on the perceived hypocrisy of blaming G.W for the attacks, and then crying foul about the privacy infringements associated with the Patriot Act. I'm sure that not all the privacy complains are specious, however. I'm totally comfortable with some of the changes, and less comfortable with others. I, however, am also comfortable with assuming additional security risk in order to ensure certain provisions of privacy. Those that don't seem to understand the quid pro quo relationship between the two are either stupid or disingenuous.

I'm not sure I get where your personal knowledge of W and BO are relevant, except, perhaps, to gain insight as to why they did or will govern the way they do.

I'm sure there are those that do oppose any Bush decision on principle. Some of those were that way from Jan 2000. But I imagine that a good number of people are hesitant to hit the trust button on policies coming from the guy whose administration sold us on WMDs in Iraq, exposed CIA operatives, abused signing statements in a historic capacity, established and maintained the detention facility in Gitmo on legal grounds that took some rearrangment of the AGs office just to get drafted, and has operated under extreme interpretations of the law to avoid transparency of his governance...the man has a credibility problem, and the 20-23% popularity numbers bear that cannot achieve such a gross loss of confidence by the people without making some serious missteps. So you are right, there are some people that think that Bush is wrong by definition, but for the majority of that 77%, the evidence has been layed out before us.

Comment #396 - Posted by: Bladerunner at November 6, 2008 2:37 PM

In response to comment #360


Ease up on the throttle. Since you don't know me, I'll fill you in. I served 20 years in the Marines and have been actively involved with other government agencies in fighting the War on Terror. It is certainly not an abstraction for me, and I sure as heck don't need to be lectured by you about free speech or getting shot at, etc.

I guess I didn't clearly articulate my point. I have no problem with political discussions and appreciate the diversity of opinions. Perhaps these type of discussions can be placed in another Comments section instead of mixing them in with CrossFit specific commentary.

Comment #397 - Posted by: Tony at November 6, 2008 6:36 PM


Since you are actually fighting the War on Terror, what you may not realize is that a substantial part of our population is trying to make sure you fail. They will sell you down the river in a New York minute, and do it on the flimsiest of pretexts.

Some 3-4 years ago, a conversation arose about incorporating some form of mental fitness training in with the physical. Since CrossFit is 3 days on/1 day off, the one day off was an obvious fit for discussions of all sorts. They tend to be political, but are not invariably. As with the WOD's, there is both variety, and recurring themes.

I can't tell you how many active duty military folks have thanked me for articulating ideas which our media doesn't. Hell, Bush doesn't either. Blair was the articulate one.

But these things need to be said. The entire internet is swarming with kids who have been programmed since birth to believe that failure in
Vietnam was inevitable, that all wars are wrong, that we are an aggressive, imperial nation, that all white Christian males should feel guilty for existing, and that government handouts exist as part of a natural social order.

They don't necessarily need to be said here, but if not here, where? The foundational attributes of people who come here and stay are common sense (we are not "scientific", so you have to just settle for it working), persistence, and passion. In my own view, ANY effort at debate is doomed from the start if either party has major character flaws, notably low pain tolerance, or an exaggerated sense of self importance.

CrossFit tends to weed those traits out.

#396: all you are doing there is doing the typical leftist laundry list. Please do this for me. Pick the single topic from that list that you view as the best case for an open and shut, clearcut failure on the part of Bush. The Patriot Act. WMD's. Whatever. Then make your case to the best of your ability.

What I know, that you apparently don't, is that EVERY item you listed is either an exaggeration or an outright lie.

You likely don't believe me, though, so please exercise yourself mentally, and lay out a case on any one topic, using as many words as you like.

Comment #398 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 6, 2008 9:20 PM

The discussion between Tony and Barry above on the function / presence of Rest Day articles is something that's been on my mind. Barry, interesting history and explanation of Rest Day discussions there.

There are some good people coming onto this site, expecting exercise information and discussion only, and seeing political articles and discussion. At best they're a little confused - I know I was. They might stick around, join in and there's no problem.

At worst, they see an article from an alternative political slant (the articles are overwhelmingly right wing in my view) and think "This isn't about exercise, it's actually a very political site. I find the article on Boumedienne / AGW / How to Manage Savages [sic] offensive. Think I'll stick with my split routine. See ya, Crossfit."

They might go so far as to post "what is this doing here" but increasingly, they're met with a chorus of abuse about how this is the way it is and to go away if they don't like it.

Crossfit's response might be:

1. Fine - no one needs 'em. Good riddance. If they're not sturdy enough to join in or at least ignore the parts of the programme they don't like, they're probably not up to the WODs anyway.


2. It might acknowledge that the existence and purpose of Rest Day articles isn't immediately apparent for someone logging on for the first time. Rather than risk putting people off for no good reason, let's put up an FAQ explaining what happens on Rest Days, let's link it to the main page every Rest Day. Let's explain the rationale, explain how it picks the articles and why and give background on what it's all about.

Now to my mind, the second reaction makes sense on a few levels. Firstly, this should be a welcoming place - overwhelmingly, it is. So it is, in fact, in keeping with the current philosophy. Next, from a "spreading the good word" sense, it might stop a few people being turned off because of their lack of understanding of this aspect. We'd end up with more Crossfitters. That, to me, is a benefit. Thirdly, the Rest Day discussions might have less "What is this sh*t doing here" comments, and less vitriolic responses to such queries. That can only be a good thing.

Just thinking out loud here.


Comment #399 - Posted by: J1 at November 7, 2008 5:27 AM

In Response to #399


Your comments make perfect sense to me. Regarding this particular thread, I'm done. It's Friday and the best thing about Friday is that it's only two more days until Monday! ;-)

Comment #400 - Posted by: Tony at November 7, 2008 5:49 AM

That would be up to Coach. My feeling, though, is a FAQ's would do little good, for two reasons.

First, no matter how obvious and easy you make the FAQ's, there are a number of people who just can't be bothered to read them. You see questions like "What is a pood", or "Aren't kipping pullups cheating?" on both the Main Board, and Message Board constantly. I've been here a long time, and things like that don't seem to slow down.

Secondly, one way in which the entitlement mentality we have fostered in the last couple of generations of kids gets expressed, is in an absolute lack of reticence with respect to sharing opinions, regardless of ones qualifications.

Do you really think that if the FAQ were posted, and it was said there "we discuss politics, and if you don't like the content, respond with facts of your own", that that would prevent complaints in an open forum? Would people suddenly be OK with seeing views they work hard to protect themselves from being posted, then SUPPORTED?

In my own view, most--not all, Tony seems to be an exception here--of the people who object to politics being discussed, are really objecting to the content. They don't agree with the general conservative foundation of many of the writers offered, and rather than subject themselves to a rational process of fact gathering and concentrated thinking, they prefer to ask that the whole thing be whisked away.

But I think there is a hunger out there for open support of conservative viewpoints, most notably among members of the military, law enforcement, and likely not uncommonly fire fighters.

Our media is overwhelmingly liberal. We just elected a President who voted for the troops something like 1/2 of 1% of the time, according to Veterans for Freedom. Whether or not President Obama does a good job or not, the media categorically did not do their job on any number of issuess. And they won't. A few have apologized, but most are quite proud of the effect their frequently openly partisan efforts had.

Coach Glassman has ALWAYS had a special fondness for, and paid special attention to military members, LEO's, and fire fighters. They are the ones who benefit most from fitness, which can very conceivably save their lives.

If there is somewhere else on the internet where you have those groups congregated, that discusses politics, I'd be curious to hear about it.

I'm not a member of any of those groups, but my guess is there are large numbers of individuals who are connected in this community not just through fitness, but through a shared worldview.

Politics may be a minus for some, but it is a very definite plus for others, which inspires increased dedication to the CrossFit mission.

It definitely is for me. Coach Glassman does not always play it safe, and that is a definite plus in my book.

Comment #401 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 7:37 AM

Hey Barry...and for that matter Tony and J1:

Very nice series of posts, comments, and replies on the phenomenon of Rest Day. While I must share once again that this discourse, as polite and intellectually honest and direct, is highly unlikely to have any effect on Rest Day, this particular discussion was the most intelligent and worthwhile yet on the subject.

Thanks to you all.

Comment #402 - Posted by: bingo at November 7, 2008 7:54 AM

Bingo, thanks. I agree - this has been useful for me.

Barry, I have to reluctantly agree that you've probably hit on an uncomfortable truth. Many objecting to "political discussion" are really objecting to content and bias in selction of articles. So the objections are perhaps intellectually dishonest in that sense. I do think that's correct for some. But it doesn't cover everyone - some people just don't like politics and hate mixing it with exercise.

On the subject of media bias and the need for an outlet for a conservative voice, I don't live in the US, but I do get to watch "The O'Reilly Factor" and such like (I find it abhorrent), which I understand are on main networks and get high ratings. So maybe there are more outlets than you recognise?

But let's suppose that you're correct and there is a pent-up need for airing or support for a minority view. Giving voice to such a community sounds to me like a noble thing to do - moreso if it's people who put themselves in harm's way who are otherwise denied that forum. I'm a "leftist" in your view, but I can see the merit in the argument. Now if that is what selection of articles is about, shouldn't it be explicit?

Just imagine for a moment how frustrated you'd feel if Coach were a "socialist" (not a dirty word over here, but seems to be in the US). You love Crossfit, but you log on to read a socialist article most rest days. NOTHING from the right. I suspect you'd manfully take up the gauntlet and fight the good fight. But after a while, would you get a little depressed at the bias? Would it start to feel a little unfair? Would you perhaps expect the site to maybe be upfront about what it was doing and why? Absent a cogent reasoning / explanation, it just feels a bit unfair.

I recognise the legitimacy of Bingo's comment to me a while back that it seems like "whining". I don't want to whine or seem ungrateful. I suspect most people have moved on so in this "smaller forum" I really am thinking out loud a bit.

Last thought: Barry, you really do hate "the left". I can see legitimate reasons for that in history. But know this. Many people who are "socialist" would share more with you than you think. If you and I lived on the same street, and someone was being mugged, I suspect we'd both be amongst the first to head out and help. If either of us lost our jobs, I suspect we'd both show solidarity and kindness. I suspect we'd both like a nice safe neighbourhood, with good schools for our kids, with parks and we'd like jobs for people to earn their wages without depending on government dole-outs. Really, you should try sometimes to look at things people have in common. Sometimes your posts are too strongly against a general "left" where I don't see it being justified. I'm not religious, but I do think Jesus was a socialist.

Have a good w/e all.


Comment #403 - Posted by: J1 at November 7, 2008 8:41 AM

Thanks Bingo,

Ok, one more comment. I am relatively new to CF so I didn't realize the open forum nature for commentary on Rest Days. Now that I do, I'm fine with it. I also realize that many of us are passionate about the issues and I'm ok with that as well.

I've been reading many comments on a wide range of topics and most seem to be well reasoned and intelligent, especially from a political perspective. As for Coach Glassman, I never heard of him until CF and I am extremely impressed with his insights and his ability to think critically, which to me is one of the hallmarks of the CF community. So Barry, if I jumped the gun in my first posting, it was done unintentionally. It's all good!

Semper Fi

Comment #404 - Posted by: Tony at November 7, 2008 8:53 AM

Bingo: thanks, as well.


First off, I find Bill O'Reilly annoying, although I did scan one of his books. Sean Hannity is OK, but overall I consume very little news. I read the New York Times headlines, Yahoo news articles, and visit for the stuff that won't show up anywhere else.

Fox, though, is pretty much the only outlet for conservative viewpoints, and they just can't match up to the virtual entirety of newspapers, news magazines, traditional news channels, educational indocrination from kindergarter through Grad School, and the internet itself, in all too many places.

There are, of course, magazines like National Review, but they are a very distinct minority. Basically people read things that are congruent with what they were taught in school, unless some little thing happens that gives them an "aha" moment. Reagan had his. I forget what it was--it was a book, possibly "Conscience of a Conservative", but people forget he was once a New Deal Democrat, unless my own memory has failed entirely.

With respect to socialism, my objection is not that it leads inexorably to communism. It doesn't. My objection is that it leads inexorably to decadence. One of the principle means by which socialism is sold is through a concentrated assault on traditional values, particularly those whose expression arises in traditional religious views.

Assaults on God (defenses of atheism for you "freedom fighter" folks) stem from a desire to remove religion from the national dialogue. This is done so that "progressive" ideals can be implemented.

However, the core problem with "progressivism" is that the meaning of life for all too many of these people inheres in their politics, supplemented by a default hedonism. If you destroy all values--all reasons to voluntarily suffer--then pleasure is all that remains. If and when universal justice and wealth is obtained, we will be so mushy we will just melt into the earth and disappear.

Recently, there were bus ads placed on London busses saying "God probably doesn't exist. Why not enjoy yourself?"

In a nutshell, this is what I object to. There is no overarching vision; there is no plan. Everything is falling apart already, and socialists are pushing it down harder.

No doubt much of what I say comes across as rants. Frankly, some of my posts likely are best understood as rants. However, please do not mistake that fact for a lack of consideration as to what I am speaking of.

These topics obsess me. The next three books I'll read (after I finish Mona Charen's "Do gooders") are William James "Pragmatism", Barry Goldwaters "Conscience of a conservative", and the "Black book of Communism".

This is what I live with, day in, day out.

Obviously, it's not all about me (I asked the start to align the other day, and they ignored me), but I did feel the need to perhaps offer some background into at least my own motivations, since I tend to talk a lot here, and keep talking.

Comment #405 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 9:03 AM

Barry, all fair enough. I guess ranting has its place now and again. However, I find your posts which are less trenchant far more convincing of the truths you seek to express - but I think you know that already.

On atheism / socialism / descent into hedonism, I would agree that the pendulum has swung away from religion - and to me that is understandable when one considers much of the nonsense, abuse and perversion of the true Christian message that has taken place within its organised bodies. (In the rush to be liberated, lots of us have forgotten the amazing work of the churches but this will be remembered better in time after the initial euphoria wears off.)

Where we go as a society is really up to us. I don't agree that rejection of religion necessarily involves an inevitable descent into a wilderness of pleasure-seeking, ungrounded actions. Fundamentally, we are a mammalian species who care for our young and our old. We smile, cry and share food. We are social creatures. We willingly make sacrifices for each other. We are imagining, or rather discovering, new "moral anchors" - and we're failing in many cases. We're getting it wrong. Our path carries a greater risk of ammorality than that previously trodden, and we need to do better. But I do believe we can progress.

To me, "growing up" about religion is an important element in the evolution of our species. And in any war against terror. Our geocentric view of the universe we inhabit is old, tired and wrong. We are all "space men". We're on the edge of a spiral galaxy lost in unimaginable isolation. It is ironic on many levels that the US, which I am repeatedly told is "the greatest country in the world" (that does grate after a while...) is so overtly religious, is also engaged in a war primarily against fundamentalists of another religion, but seems - at times - to place pursuit of wealth over the actual values espoused by Jesus. I'd like to see a much more secular US - or a US which takes the true Christian message more seriously. As the t-shirt says, "Who would Jesus bomb?" This isn't an anti-US rant at all - it is a great country and now, more than ever, I am filled with hope for the promise it holds. But on the religion question, I do think the US needs more critical thinking.

(Now who's ranting...)

Comment #406 - Posted by: J1 at November 7, 2008 9:52 AM

You know, I meant to add earlier that I myself have often voluntarily placed myself in discussions, on other websites, where I was the only one who dared express conservative views consistently. I have discussed not just politics, but religion.

What is unremarked upon--by those who think Darwin's argument has been shown to be substantially accurate, with no large pieces missing--is the fact that humans can never release themselves from their own subjectivity.

We see comments like "we will evolve a new morality". You are implicitly referncing this by commenting our presumed evolutionary closeness to monkeys, and apes, and as far as that goes marsupials, cats, dogs, and rodents. All of them have bred within them an urge to care for their own, and "love" can therefore be presumed to be an emergent property of what we might term "survival producing activity".

We, too, experience "love", and since we are hard wired the same way as lower order animals (please forgive my anthropocentrism), then logically some evolutionarily suitable activity will come around.

However, this basic argument acts as if we WERE animals, and not sentient, reasoning, thinking beings who do what we do for REASONS.

REASONS do not evolve. They are decisions made with the influence, yes, of biological factors, but also environmental factors, and as a result of unique, personal traits.

What you decide to do, and who you decide to become, define you uniquely. I don't believe in generic humans any more than I believe in "typical black women".

The demand that we be understood as artifacts of purely chemical factors (environmental factors, of course, devolve to chemical factors for every person, animal, and plant around us) therefore offers nothing that is positive. It does not support any ennobling thought, or work in any way to build anything but latent nihilism, a pervasive sense of futility, pseudofrivolity to mask the first two symptoms, and anger.

The thought structures we build, the ideas we construct, make a difference. They matter. They have real world effects. Hundreds of millions of people died in the 20th Century because of ideas.

Many reacted by rejecting ideas. By rejecting meaning. By rejecting logic.

But you have to have ideas. You have to believe something. Nihilism is a belief.

Thus, at the same time ideals like "Honor" were jettisoned in the wake of World War 1, so too was the very process by which the relative merit of ideas could be gauged, with the result that most of our intellectuals have been able to adopt catastrophically bad ideas, with no systemic means for self correction.

The only means by which ideas can be critiqued is on the basis of criteria, which are durable premises, shared widely. If you reject durable principles, in principle, you have insulated yourself from the very process of rationality.

And this is how Bush gets to be Hitler, and why nobody can say otherwise.

Brainwashing must have evolved in the last 60 years. The logical end of the idea that ideas evolve, is to inject them into peoples brains. If the people doing this are post-rational in the manner I have just described, many of the dystopias described in the middle part of the 20th Century become viable, and perhaps even naively optimistic.

As for me, I place my faith in courage and persistence. Who knows what my future holds? Who knows what our collective future holds? I will hold my part of the line as long as I can, and that is all I can do.

Comment #407 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 10:30 AM


Barry, I don't disagree with what you followed up with. Whether or not there was "noise" in the channel or not enough information, I was specifically refuting Andrew's easily-disprovable statement: "nobody could have possibly predicted or prepared for what happened".

And I hope when you refer to the Left you're not assuming I'm part of it.

Comment #408 - Posted by: Lisa Clarkson at November 7, 2008 10:46 AM


Certainly, more could have been done. The data that there were Arab men taking flying lessons, without any real concern with learning how to land the planes, that could have been shared.

Would that have been racial profiling? One wonders if that case officer would have kept their job if the plot had been prevented, and their full intentions never revealed.

Comment #409 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 1:15 PM

On another note, I got to thinking about the arguments against the politics on the website, and had a couple follow up comments.

First, individualism, and individuality--the doctrine and the concrete expression--are essential to liberty, in my view. We want as much diversity as possible, not just racially and culturally, but ideologically and behaviorally.

This allows, from the tumult of motion, the best ideas to flow forth. But this does not mean that you have to do whatever the trendy thing is at the moment.

On the contrary, you choose your own principles, and stick to them.

Comment #410 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 1:16 PM

I see people saying Coach Glassman and Lauren would get more business without the politics. This may be. But do we really want to reduce every aspect of our lives to money?

Anyone with the passion to build a large business loves that business. It's their baby. They love the people, they love the flow.

And to say that businesses should eliminate their personalities is to act to rationalize the world, in the sense Max Weber meant it 100 years ago, with the result that in exchange for a few more sparkling glass baubles of some sort, you lose the quirkiness, whimsicality, ideosyncrasy, and ultimately the pleasure of doing things your way, because they bring you enjoyment.

Comment #411 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 1:18 PM

How many of you, given the choice, would prefer Barnes and Noble to a store with an equal number of books, but with 5 cats running around, an owner who smoked a pipe (this may scare some of you), and who liked to drink whiskey and expound on the virtues of Burns?

Comment #412 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 1:21 PM

So much of our lives is plastic, denuded of the core elements of open systems allowed to orient themselves randomly. Wharton Business School grads are as much to blame for much of our loss of identity as the hard Left.

It is all integrated, but in this case, I have to say I like places that are unique, and unexpected.

Comment #413 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 1:22 PM

I will add, as well, that the politics and fitness are in fact ideologically related. Coach is a big Hayek fan, and Hayek preached incessantly about what he called Constructivism, which is basically the idea that economies can be managed "scientifically".

The same claim is made by fitness professionals, who believe that their labs are better than the real world at predicting what will happen in the real world.

All of these things are of a piece.

Comment #414 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 1:23 PM


"So much of our lives is plastic, denuded of the core elements of open systems allowed to orient themselves randomly. Wharton Business School grads are as much to blame for much of our loss of identity as the hard Left."

A Canadian named John Raulston Saul wrote a book in the late 80's or early 90's titled: "Voltaire's Bastards." In it he tries to say that a world of managers and bureaucrats has denuded the sane, sober, practical, civic-improvement-oriented kind of reasoning espoused (and practised) by Voltaire (and other 18thC philosphers and their intellectual progeny) into an opaque, machine-like calculating.

He notes that Lenin and American business(French/British too) all adopted the prinicples of "scientific management" set out by Fredrick Winslow Taylor, and that these principles found their way in to Wharton and the case method of the Harvard business school.

Feeling little like Cliff Claven over here. I'm actually not this much of a dick in person.

Comment #415 - Posted by: Prole at November 7, 2008 2:22 PM

You know, it's funny you say that. As Abraham Lincoln once said to Winston Churchill: "It's OK, man."

Comment #416 - Posted by: Barry Cooper at November 7, 2008 3:55 PM

Look's like the Right's big blunder is that they are a bunch of self absorbed, paranoid, xenophobic wankers and that's why they lost our hearts, our minds, and the white house. Wow... I guess a pig with lipstick really is just a pig after all.

You guys never had a chance.

Yes We Can!
Yes We Did!
Yes We Will!

Comment #417 - Posted by: Yes We Did at November 9, 2008 12:03 PM

Tami rocks!

Comment #418 - Posted by: MJJ at November 9, 2008 6:44 PM

Jeez, I just saw this, don't know how I missed it. Can I be her when I grow up? Wow.

Comment #419 - Posted by: PennyB at November 13, 2008 9:38 AM

Often we forget the little guy, the SMB, in our discussions of the comings and goings of the Internet marketing industry. Sure there are times like this when a report surfaces talking about their issues and concerns but, for the most part, we like to talk about big brands and how they do the Internet marketing thing well or not so well.

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