Love listening to nutrition talks.

Robb Wolf really knows his stuff. We need more nutrition lecture videos.

Thank God.

Kirkuk Crossfit

Special K is taking his PT Test today. I'm grading the test...HeHe. I'll post his grade.

Train Hard and leave the rest to crossfit.

- Jerickson

giddy up. sydney level 1 Cert on tomorrow. can't wait

6 (+4) on 8/2's WOD. Hated it.

Yes...

Perfect time for rest.

Aloha.

Mmmm, I loves me some fats...

Hey Robb, I am exactly at that point right now where I am searching for my perfect zone with crossfit. My question is:

Question in a nutshell: How come I don't increase my zone diet by one complete block instead of just the fat block portion?

I am zoning at 18 blocks with 21 blocks of fat but I am wondering why I don't increase the entire diet one block so that I keep the 40,30,30 that is recommended? I know, I should ask this in the forums, and I will, but since you mentioned it on a rest day...

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

i ave been crossfitting for over a year now and have been strict zone for the past 6 months and am required 19 block (5 per meal, 2 per snack). I have an extremely high metabolism and the first 2 or 3 months on zone, i felt like i was starving myself! a month ago, i went 2X fat (10 meal, 4 fat) and that still was not enough. i have been going 3X the fat for about 2 weeks now and i still have not gained a pound or two that i would like to gain and am still hungry in between meals, even though majority of my carbs are fruits and veggies. so should i up the ante to 4X or even 5X the fat like Rob said? Going 5X the fat, that is 95 blocks of fat per day for me! just the fat blocks in grams, that equals 142.5 grams per fat, and that does not even include the 5 whole eggs i have every morning and the "little" bit of fat that is in the carbs and protein. so should i increase the fat then if i keep feeling hungry in between meals with 3X the fat i am on right now>

Does anyone take prohormones? Just curious as to people's take on this. Do they do anything? I don't want to gain weight just get stronger and leaner.

Several weeks ago I approached one of the owners of the small, independant globo gym I work out at about installing a set of gymnastic rings. To my surpise he said he'd look into and talk it over with his partner. A couple of weeks later, we talked about it again and he said he considered it, except that his insurance carrier said it would drastically increase his liability premiums because it would be adding a "gymnastics element" to the gym. I took his word for it, but was bummed it didn't work out.

After my wife got me a set of rings for my birthday (thanks hon!) I approached the owners again; but this time about installing a set-up that I could hang my new rings from for ring-oriented workouts and them take them down when I was done. I told them I would be willing to sign a liabilty release form and I would be the only one using them. Again, to my surprise, they were receptive to looking into it.

Anyway, I talked to the one of the owner's tonight and, lo and behold, they are going to let me install a set-up to hang my rings from! The rings aren't up yet, but I hope to have them in by the end of next week.

Now if I can just get them to purchase a set of bumper plates...and start writing my times/scores on the mirror's...gotta work on those!

The election is for the President of the United States.

It is not for the Best Campainer of the United States.

The focus among the media (web and others) and among voters should shift drastically from what the voters are thinking, to what the candidates are thinking, and to what the candidates are likely to do if they are voted into office.

The opinions of other voters matters when strategic voting is likely, which it isn't, because there are two candidates.

These men should debate long and often. The people need to see them work in real time, with as little scripting as possible, getting into difficult spots and working their own ways out, as they will have to as President.

Just back from California, a big thanks to all the staff at Camp P - Including Lt C Dan, Lt C Todd, Bryan, Jeoff, all the Marines and Trainees i met - A big thankyou to Coach Glassman, Dave C all the staff from CrossFit HQ inc Greg, Jimmi, Jolie, Steve, Mali, Rachel, and the two others apologies I CANT REMEMBER YOUR NAMES AS I WAS GETTING BEASTED BY YOU TWO MUCH but one of you are from CrossFit Newport and CrossFit Elite?Bootcamp? - If you are thinking about attending a cert I highly recommend CrossFit Camp Pendleton - a big warm welcome was recieved, Ill post some pics when I get them d/loaded. I also Visited Brand X in Ramona, Jen and myself got a warm welcome from Geoff and family, who are oustanding athletes by the way!, we were priveliged to some personal training from Geoff, his sons and Dan, who taught us some Rippletoe techniques , he then filled us full of lunch taught me some cleans and snatches, we then done a workout which consited of 5 power snatches 95lb, 10 burpees, 15 pullups x 5, he was attemping to re-create an infamous training session that involved two other affilates, some fish tacos and Pukie the clown!! Dan went over some Krav Maga techniques before we left, wish I had more time to spend there, thankyou again!

Thank God...this has been a long week in more ways than one.

This morning we did wall ball/burpees.

Did 10 wall ball shots with 10# ball, then 10 burpees as a "set". Did 10 sets for time.

If you haven't tried this, I highly recommend it. I was absolutely freaking smoked in 16:37. Once again, if it looks easy on paper...you know :-)

#10 if your still hungry you haven't found "the zone"... you are supposed to allow 2 wks to adjust to carb craving etc and then after that you may need to adjust YOUR zone formula ie.) hungry and zero mental focus or hungry and focused. performance and body composition are the elements that drive uping the fat blocks.
I would suspect food selection to be the major issue, but you really havent given the whole picture, post BW, LBM and activity level and we can make sure you first off have the right Rx then we can take the next step

Much Needed Rest Day indeed.

Been working hard this week. Crazy Barbell work at Two different Crossfit Boxes.

I cant wait to do the same at my own Box.

tomorrow Im doing a Bootcamp Challenge in San Diego and Need a good day to rest up my legs!

Then Back on.

-Johnny D
Crossfit Pasadena

Kirkuk Crossfit

So as promised, Special K took his PT Test. He ROCKED the thing. His last score was a solid 283 out of 300 possible. He and I have been doing Crossfit for the last 8 weeks. His score today was a perfect 300 and his run time has gone down by almost a minute on the 2 mile timed run. He does some Crossfit endurance a few time a week. Other than that it's straight WOD's as Rx'd. Thanks for making this possible.

Train hard and leave the rest to Crossfit.

- Jerickson

That’s what I needed!

M/26/190/6'0"

Crossfit Kirkuk

As Jerickson posted, I smoked the Army phsycial fitness test today. While probably not a huge accomplishment to many experienced Crossfitters, it was the landmark first perfect 300 for me. The only thing that really has changed has been doing the last couple months of crossfit WODs and about 2-3/week CFE workouts.

I supplemented some pushup and situp training in my off time for specificity, but I attribute most of my success to Crossfit. Thanks so much for the WODs and all the help from everyone! I look forward to going to a certification or two when I get back. The kool-aid tastes great! :)

crossfit kirkuk,

"right on!" for special K. I just started the crossfit endurance thing too. Its great for being deployed cause you got nothing to do but eat and work out. The main site wods are so quick and effective that you dont have anything else to do for the next 23hours and 30 mins. anyway, CFE+mainsite=the sh*t.

Nice work Special K! It's amazing how low the Army standards are in the way of physical fitness.

Prole #13:

May I commend you to "The Myth of the Rational Voter" by Tyler Cowen. It will disabuse you, once and for all, of the notion that the quality of voting (and the quality of the candidates for whom to vote) will improve in response to your recommendations.

We get the candidates we deserve, as a result of our electoral process and all of its elements (which includes, naturally, the press and blogosphere), both here and in Canada.

Question:

I have thought about starting zone, but I can't figure out how many blocks for a starting point. I have done the zone calculator: 37M180 5'10" and 33inch waist and 7in wrist. They recommend anywhere from 11 blocks to 23 blocks depending on whether I fall out sedentary to elite athlete. I have read Crossfit Journal 21 several times. I have no idea - I don't consider myself a large male, but am I a hard gainer or well muscled athlete or just medium frame? No idea.

Any advice on the number of blocks to begin with?

TO THE FOLKS IN KIRKUK...

Miss that place....NOTTTT! Did my time in 2007...heard not much has changed.

Thanks for serving!!

Aloha.

The television and print media has largely themselves to blame for large declines in audience size. The repeatedly trim substance to cut costs while increases gossip and advertisements. They figure if their audience is dwindling they need to save money instead of producing a more marketable product. People go to the Internet because they can instantly see all the headlines and choose another article on the same topic if one fails to do the job, whether it's because it's too biased, not enough information, etc. Turning Johnson's phrase on the news media, when they've lost Cronkite, i.e. good substantive journalism, they've lost middle America.

Furthermore, journalists today are trained to consolidate information, sell themselves for the interview, and be flashy. They are not educated in the field in which they will report; they are not taught how to convey the facts. The most successful reporters are probably not journalism majors. Mostly though, I lament the loss of the Cambridge comma.

I have been doing CrossFit for about a year now and love it, overall I am more fit than I have ever been in my life. I am a recent grad form Western Michigan University with a degree in exercise science and I have a back ground in strength and conditioning. I was wondering besides opening up your own affiliate how do you get a job as a trainer at a preexisting CrossFit gym. Anyone with information please email me at kyle.c.skinner@hotmail.com
Thanks

Rock on Special K! Way to go on the 300!

I hit a CF milestone of my own this morning, RING MUSCLE UPS!!

I decided today was the day, and I just hung there in a false grip till I kipped up and got it!
This was the end of a solid week of jumping MU, practicing the transition and getting my chest to "push through"
I've gotta post here, 'cause no one in the gym seemed to understand, or care, why I was jumping aroud like Rocky on the stairs.

30 in a row, here I come!

Billy-
The 40/30/30 is just a starting point, we can and need to be more sophisticated than that, hence the need to increase fat blocks. Go up to 2x fat (that mean multiplying 18 x 2=36...capiche?) and you should see an uptick in how you feel and perform.

Delaney-
I have no idea what you are doing to get that spread...should be IMPOSSIBLE to plug in 180lbs and return 11 blocks...new math perhaps?! Whatever the case here are the go to resources for this stuff...and keep in mind...CrossFit ONLY SCORES A .75 multiplier!! Add 5 days per week of muay thai and jits and you might get up to a .85 or 0.9. Here are those resources:

Please see Crossfit Journal 21:
http://journal.crossfit.com/2004/05/zone-meal-plans-crossfit-journ.tpl

My article from the Performance Menu: 42 Ways to skin the Zone:
http://www.performancemenu.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_11&products_id=58

And finally two different Zone block calculators online:
http://www.dbhonline.com/zoneful/p_calculator.htm

http://www.crossfitwarehouse.com/newsite/blog/tools/Zone%20Block%20Calculator.xls

I go into insomnia-curing detail with this stuff in my nutrition certs and on the blog...check'em out!

#26 & #27

I think the point of the article was not necessarily faulting the general media for losing their audience, but rather the impact the web has had on insularism. Seth Grodin has had a theory on this for years, and he discusses the fractionalism that's resulted from the web.

Here's something funny -- I have a client that told me he no longer watches the nat'l news because he doesn't trust them. No, he gets his news from the web because it's a more 'legitimate' source. In reality, he's simply gravitated to sites that provide credibility to what he already believes.

That depends on what sites you gravitate too. If you only gravitate to news sites you will get one view. If you gravitate (in addition) to something that isn't pure politives, but once in a while gets into politics, you will get the views of everyone else. I've been exposed to several views that are outside the mainstream because of someone I trust as a programmer, hunter, cook, (...) has brought that view to me.

The mainstream media brings you the slightly left of center democrate point of view, with just enough slightly right of center republican point of view that they can claim unbiased balance. They completly ignore every other viewpoint.

Yesterday got to the gym. On vacation did a lot of hiking and running (distance and track workouts) but not a lot at the gym. In 8 days only one was a crossfit workout. I have not really taken more than a couple extra days off from crossfit so I suppose it was some active recovery. I wondered what it would be like first day at the gym. Yesterday I was eager to do a strength workout in spite of being up since 3 am for a flight.

BS rep 5: 135-150-155-165 PR-165 (3x2)
Honestly- I had the SHAKES so bad after these!!!

PJ rep 5: 95-105-(115x4)- (115x3x2)-110 PR
Was visibly shaking after these two lifts!!!

Oh yeah, was approach by someone complimenting on seeing a “anyone” work on squats with the bb and especially a girl. Then they thought I was 18. I just had the big 3-0 birthday last weekend so I got a kick out of that.

Then did HSPU and KBSs

Erin

Special K, congrats, keep up the good work over there; and you are going to love the cert!

Interesting article. Paul

For those that know him. Chris Kemp's (CF North East England) wife Jane gave birth to a boy today. 8lb 3oz. I'm sure you'll all join me in wishing them the very best with the new arrival.

erin!

happy birthday! what a nice compliment, and great job on the PR's! So the big 3-0 eh? looks like you survived! mine is in just under 2 months and i am starting to subconsciously panic..ha. hope you did something fun for your birthday.

Delaney, comment 24, How many zone blocks should I start with?

According to your stats, 180lb Male, 70 inches tall, 33 inch waist and 7 inch wrist, (12 percent body fat) you should start with 18 Blocks. People who Crossfit 3 days on and 1 day off should consider themselves "Active" when calculating blocks.

As far as being "a hard gainer" or "medium build" that does not matter at all. Eating 18 blocks divided throughout that day like 4 blocks for every meal with three 2 block snacks, snack between breakfast and lunch, lunch and dinner, and before bed, will give you a great starting point. Stay on it for at least a month before changing the block or fat count.

Also, there is a ton of information on the message boards about the Zone and Paleo, check it out when you get a chance.

Have Fun, Train hard,

Billy

Re Huber's “Cronkite vs. the Web”

A great power of the Internet is its ability to reach a sparse constituency or market for even the most rare of products including bizarre ideas. Five percent of the largest city is a straw in the wind; five percent of the nation is an uprising. A "chance in a million that someone is going to buy that" sells one or more in only nine US cities, but 300 on e-Bay. Now whatever you might have to offer is worth developing and packaging for market.

So, too, “millions of highly wired and politically engaged young people” is a sparse market out of 300 million, and even among 150 million registered voters. But if you can herd them to a caucus, it's enough to have an impact. And that is why Obama became the nominee. It had nothing to do with “early adopters … where most shoppers have quite similar tastes and will go with the flow once someone captures a critical share of the market”. Overall, Hillary won based on primaries. She lost in the infiltrated caucuses. She could not muster enough support to overcome the anti-Hillary faction in her own party.

Early capture of market share is the right idea, evident in the PC market, but QWERTY had nothing to do with it. At any time, PCs could operate equally well with any keyboard. Before DOS and the IBM PC, Apple computers were out and around. Consumers and businesses alike thought of them as toys (Apple could not be a serious name!) so they anxiously waited for release of the first personal computer from IBM, the Giant in computing. The IBM PC was the de facto standard before the first one was ever sold. DOS and Windows have retained the brunt of the market share ever since, and in spite of being a decidedly inferior product on a cheap platform. Market forces, like evolution, don't necessarily produce the technically best product. So too QWERTY is an inferior design for today, being based on keeping mechanical keys from tangling. What won the day for MS and windows was the market name of IBM.

A paper released for today has an interesting link with Huber's thesis. It is Whitson, J.A. and A. D. Galinsky, “Lacking Control Increases Illusory Pattern Perception”, Science, Vol. 322, No. 5898, 10/3/08, pp. 115-117. The abstract reads,

>>We present six experiments that tested whether lacking control increases illusory pattern perception, which we define as the identification of a coherent and meaningful interrelationship among a set of random or unrelated stimuli. Participants who lacked control were more likely to perceive a variety of illusory patterns, including seeing images in noise, forming illusory correlations in stock market information, perceiving conspiracies, and developing superstitions. Additionally, we demonstrated that increased pattern perception has a motivational basis by measuring the need for structure directly and showing that the causal link between lack of control and illusory pattern perception is reduced by affirming the self. Although these many disparate forms of pattern perception are typically discussed as separate phenomena, the current results suggest that there is a common motive underlying them.>>

Who lacks control, both self and political, more than a bunch of college students? Immature, naïve, typically late blooming, non-veterans, disproportionally raised on the twin retardants Ritalin and pot - perfect constituents for the Pied Pipers of pessimism, victimhood, and national conspiracies, from AGW and environmentalism, from passivism to housing bubbles. Highly wired indeed - plugged in and turned on. Just the potting mix for liberal arts professors, Naomi Wolf, Bill Maher, Jeremiah Wright, Jay Leno, and today's subject, charlatans and hate merchants on the web, Media Matters, huffingtonpost, Moveon.org, to sew their seeds.

Seeing images in noise, illusory correlations in stock market information, and perceiving conspiracies indeed. Bingo, bingo, bingo. (Not you, bingo!) Seeking self and common motives. Bingo, bingo. Blind to demonstrable patterns. November 4 won't be the web's Waterloo, but rational people can only hope it will be a Waterloo and not Vigoro for the fresh bunch of flower children, the latest batch of recruits into the far left.

Thanks Billy. That was the straightforward answer I was hoping for. I have been looking through the Message Board, but didn't find the answer there on how many blocks to start with.

Wilco.

Bingo 23

Had a look at the online summary Caplan provides of his book. From that, it seems to me that to treat the type of “irrationality” he diagnoses would require something closer to a national education initiative extending over several generations, rather than more substantive coverage of the election(s) by the media.

Also, he and I might mean different things by “irrational”. I think of rationality as a critical attitude which attempts to mitigate, through conscious analysis, the negative effects of emotive identification . In a broad sense, it is a process, not an outcome. In a more narrow sense, rationality makes some conceptions better than others, and also one (or a number) of outcomes preferable to others.

In a broad sense, I wouldn’t define “rational” with one school of thought (economic or otherwise). His online academic auto-biography indicates that he once considered himself an economist in the Austrian tradition and now favours neoclassical methods. In a broad sense I would allow either of these as “rational” and would not term a person “irrational” for favouring one over the other. For a nation of 300 million people (or a nation of 30 million people), I think the best and you can (or should) hope for is “rationality” in the broad sense. I don’t think the media treats its viewers as rational even in this broad sense, and I’d like to see those voters who want to analyze and critique rather than emote and cheer, have more opportunity to do so.

I can see why I might care how my neighbour is voting if I intend to discuss matters with her, or to attempt to convince her she would be wise to change her mind. But that is not what this type of media coverage aims at. It is an end in itself - a spectacle without edification. It does not encourage me to engage in civil society. It encourages me in my capacity as voting citizen to treat a national election as a one-act farce.

But…is it so hard to find analysis? No it isn’t, you just have to look. And, although Caplan may think it is “irrational” to invest the amount of time required, this indicates the poverty of his notion of “(ir)rationality”. In the end though, whether it is the because the political establishment prefers politics by gossip/spectacle, or their financial backers, or the 24hr a day media, or even voters, the result is that the Candidates rarely speak to the voters as though the voters are adults.

Consider the text of FDR’s first fireside chat on the “banking crisis” delivered March 1933:http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/fdrfirstfiresidechat.html
Ignore his diagnosis, his proposed treatment, his ‘ideology’. Forget what you think about the wisdom or calamity of the New Deal. My point is to focus on his manner of address, the overall tone he adopts as he speaks directly to the sovereign people of the United States. He is not condescending or contemptuous or professorial, not demagogic, there are a few “sound-bites”, but in the overall context they are not really sound-bites, but welcome rhetorical focal points or summations. He asks for faith, but it goes without saying that he knows he must provide a basis for that faith, and that the American people will demand an explanation for it.

Or, if you don’t find it too painful to consider that a much more incisive manner of mass political address was once possible, see the Lincoln/Douglass debates of 1858 – the second of which, was held in front of 15,000 people. Could you imagine the following from any Candidate you have known in your lifetimes?:

“Now, my friends, it will be perceived upon an examination of these questions and answers, that so far I have only answered that I was not pledged to this, that or the other. The Judge has not framed his interrogatories to ask me anything more than this, and I have answered in strict accordance with the interrogatories, and have answered truly that I am not pledged at all upon any of the points to which I have answered. But I am not disposed to hang upon the exact form of his interrogatory. I am rather disposed to take up at least some of these questions, and state what I really think upon them.”
http://www.nps.gov/archive/liho/debate2.htm

I want more of, and better from the Candidates. Perhaps that's my gutenberg psychology.

Jeff Glassman,

As is often the case, much of your analysis is more or less correct, or at least highlights some aspects of what is more or less correct to the neglect of others. But you adopt the rat-a-tat style of the "charlatans and hate merchants". Style matters, as do manners. Manners, as Hume, Voltaire and Gibbon taught, are what, in large part, separates civilized from barbarous nations.

Good Morning all,

Performed a warm up of 10 muscle ups

then

5 rounds of

max ring rows
max ring push ups
GHD sits/back ext every other round of rows and pushes for the rest time

I hope all are enjoying thier day off.

Semper fidelis and God Bless

#36 Jeff

Good post - I enjoyed reading it. There are a number of print media ads nearing their release date that are directed towards this socio-economic group of youngsters, and the message of "Don't let them hold you back from voting" is right in line with your statements regarding victimization. Who the heck is holding them back? They won't even question that statement.

By the way, I chuckled at your bingo, bingo, bingo (not you Bingo!) comment.

have a great one ~

NUTRITION:
I've been studying the zone a little bit lately.I noticed good results in the 4 weeks I was on it. But I'm a little curious as to the benefits of it for athletes who are in a sport that uses mainly carbohydrates as its fuels source. I think the zone is a great idea for crossfitters and general populations, but I'm a little skeptical of its universal application. I know CrossFit seems to fully endorse Dr. Sears, but I also know Dr. Sears is trying to sell a product. I think it's a great product, but I'm not completey sold yet. Anyone have any good literature to set me straight?

Prole #38:

Apologies, first off, for attributing the book to Tyler Cowen rather than his colleague Bryan Caplan.

"...I'd like to see those voters who analyze and critique, rather than emote and cheer..."

But isn't that Caplan's point exactly? That the simply overwhelming majority of the electorate do nothing but just that? That they respond primarily to the emotion and "feelings" that a political campaign engenders rather than any objective analysis of the proposed policies and underlying philosophies (a rational evaluation) of the candidates?

Citizens who approach an election in a rational fashion, evaluating positions and proposals in order to choose a candidate who ON BALANCE best meets either their own personal needs or those of the governed in general number so few as to be irrelevant in the prosecution of a campaign. Please be assured that I share your desire that this not be the case. What it takes to be elected is this exact realization, and thus my statement that we as a nation of citizens get exactly the type of candidates that we collectively deserve.

While Huber is describing the opposite, Jeff brings up an interesting point about the power of the internet to bring about action in just one of those ever smaller groups that are now able to hear only from one another -> the internet-based rally of Obama supporters to vote in relatively small caucuses. It is an interesting point and perhaps true to some degree, especially in a close primary. However it's now old news, a tried and true tactic that will be part of every political operatives portfolio, and therefore unlikely to ever again have a measurable effect.

The best example I can cite in support of the thesis of this article would be the link options on the Caplan/Kling blog. Each one is to some degree or another at least familiar with and friendly to a libertarian take on academic economics. In the end everyone is essentially just talking to themselves.

#40 Brian - Go to the CF Journal and find CFJ 15 http://journal.crossfit.com/2003/11/cfj-issue-15-nutrition-avoidin.tpl

From there, you'll have your pick of resources for further exploration, most available on Amazon for a couple of bucks.

You only use primarily carbs as your fuel source if you use carbs as your primary fuel source. It's not that simple, of course, but the idea that you must take in carbs by the bundle to be a high performing athlete is incorrect. Marathoners, triathletes, Tour de France cyclists all use the Zone approach w success in their specialized, endurance sports.

Lastly, from zonediet.com, you could get all you need for success in the Zone without spending a penny. Paul

#42 Apolloswabbie

Thanks for replying to Brian. There are many times where others are interested in seeing an answer to a specific question, and this would be one of those times.

#34 Nads - I'm gonna email you this weekend and ask about how you use gymnastics as part of your CF workout. And I don't expect to have to wait for a reply, woman!! Haha...joking :-)

When I read the article the first thing that popped into my head is the book that's currently on my night-stand. Not positive on who the co-authors are but it's called The Essentials of Journalism I believe. (I could google it but it's irrelevant).

The position of the authors is that the major power of the web is it's ability to create conversation. Just like the one we have here in the forums.

When news was first disseminated to the public it was through word of mouth, not big-news corporations. With this in mind I don't think the web will have a 'waterloo'.

Obviously this is just my humble opinion but I do believe that in that decades to come the evolution of the net will be extremely positive and hopefully some of the 'junk' will be weeded out.

I love coming on crossfit.com not only because I'm a dedicated crossfitter but because I can 'talk' with other people, who I've never met face to face, and gain insight on a number of topics; or if not insight at least a different point of view. Though people do tend to gravitate towards like minded people, it doesn't diminish the conversations they have.

I think it should be easier to read the screen and easier to answer blog/post/etc. if the net is to evolve for the better. At least then everyone will have a chance to get into a heated debate and thereby stimulate their mind.

But, hey, that's just my two sense (lol cents I know).

Rads

"Always be better than yesterday"

A little work out I did with my unit this morning

No rest between the following
50 legs up crunches
50 legs down crunches
50 oblique crunches on each side
50 leg lifts from the ground to 90 degrees
50 4 count flutter kicks

7 Diamond push-ups
7 Diamond push-ups from the ground to half way up
5 Diamond push-ups
5 Diamond push-ups from the ground to half way up

90 seconds rest

7 regular pushups
7 regular push-ups from the ground to half way up
5 regular push ups
5 regular push-ups from the ground to half way up

90 seconds rest

7 wide pushups
7 wide push-ups from the ground to half way up
5 wide push ups
5 wide push-ups from the ground to half way up

90 seconds rest

now repeat reducing the ab excercises to 40

repeat all pushups as previously Rx'd

now repeat reducing the ab excercises to 30

repeat all pushups as previously Rx'd

M/27/235/6'4"

Just got the video of my 414 FGB last Saturday. This is the first time I've ever seen a tape of myself doing a WOD, and it's great to be able to pick apart my form. I've already noticed some major flaws in my push press. Any other feedback would be great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXFRH69jH8s&NR=1

I had a chance to see something remarkable today. Captain Dorice Favorite went ashore for the last time (retired) after almost 28 years of service. Since 1980, she's served as directed, moving with every change of jobs, and risen as one of ~400 female Captains in the US Navy (that's the same as a Colonel), one of less than 30 women of color. She's a beautiful lady, wife, and mother of two. She's also a formidable Naval Officer. While I like to think of myself as principled, in that sense I was routinely humbled by her own laser sharp focus on doing the right thing for the right reasons.

Listening to her tale today, I remembered being on the flight deck of USS ENTERPRISE to shoot (I was in training as a Catapult and Arresting Gear Officer, a "Shooter") LT Carole 'Smokey' Watts into the night astride an F-18 Hornet going ashore to leave a love note to Saddam Hussein in December, 1998. I believe that was the first ever female combatant, and strike lead no less, to make a 1000 pound point to the enemies of the United States of America.

Captain Favorite's job the last two years has been to rebuild a critical section within Navy Personnel Command - officer separations. Failures in that section led to several firings prior to her assignment to fix things. Her success since taking over that and other equally high visibility functions within NPC has left a shop that is still chewing away on one of the most difficult administrative processes I've been around (shepherding the case files through the Navy of those officers who have been behaving badly), but is doing it well. They are now getting the mission done.

She's also joined me twice a week for most of the last year, CrossFitting as part of command physical training. She didn't need to impress me more than she already had with her steady leadership and incredible administrative acumen (one of many very smart Navy Captains with whom I've served), but at age 50, she jumped in and threw down with any CF workout I served up at 0700 in the AM. If she complained a lot about the soreness, it only made the point to me that she kept coming back despite the pain.

My face leaked a few drops as she went ashore. I was proud to stand tall and offer a salute with a room full of her ship mates.

I would like to think it would be a moment from which any of you could have drawn a great and ‘humble pride’ had you been there. It was a great moment to be a Naval Officer, and an American. Paul

how many blocks is 4 irish stouts and a large piece of cake?

Nice report, Apolloswabbie. Thanks to Captain Favorite from a grateful American.

jamesthered #48:

A better question is probably "how many smiles did that 'meal' create, and what kind of cake goes with stout?"

I think I may have a comment caught in the spam filter...

Bingo,

I agree most people are talking to themselves, or rallying the troops, or possibly prostheltizing. But must it be that way? Must our leaders speak to us as though we are their kin-folk, or soldiers or potential converts? The answer is “no”. They can solicit our vote while speaking to us as citizens, there are precedents – Publius, Lincoln, Disraeli, Palmerston.

The more I look at Caplan’s site, the more of an ideologue he seems to me. For instance, does he consider that one of the reasons citizens may consider trade as a zero-sum game, and vote “irrationally” against freer trade, is that their interests are not long term, or aggregate – they are short term and narrow - and in the short term the moving of a foundry from the US to India may mean job losses in the US. In the short-term it seems zero-sum. And it can be calamitous for the voter and his or her family. Is this citizen “irrational” for voting against freer trade? Caplan may be right that freer trade is best for America as a whole and in the long run, but he should not consider a person’s opinion about free trade as a litmus test for his or her rationality. When some threshold percentage of voters fail that test, Caplan should not declare them holus bolus to be “irrational”, and then conclude that universal suffrage is therefore unwise.

I agree the people need to expect more, and that they don’t, and perhaps would not - at least not tomorrow. It will take time to raise the level of political discourse in our nations – the media and the candidates have a big role to play.

deano #12-

wow that's great news! how did you get past the insurance issue? i work in a private globo gym and my boss/owner will not let me bring in rings due to the insurance issue. after 1 year of begging he finally agreed to install a real pull-up bar so i can teach cf classes, but rings are a no-go. if you have any info on how you got your gym owners to change their mind please let me know.

mark #43-

drop me a line anytime, and i will try to help! i usually don't email much on the weekend but will be more then happy to respond when i am bored outta my mind at work next monday. ;-)

robb wolf is the shiznit. do exactly what this man says and you will not be disapointed!

Apolloswabbie, thanks for your post.

Wow, where is everyone today? Not many about.

No rest for me, I am on a 5/2 cycle, the fifth day. Which makes it all the more surprising that I just had a wonderful day, PR'd Michael in 14:45, that's 1:17 better than last time! Don't really know how to explain it. Maybe my watch was broken. Felt great the whole way, not even killing myself, just having fun. Put it this way, I had it in mind that I might hit a time like that sometime next summer if things kept going well. Days like this are a gift - I guess all days are a gift.

Have a great weekend everyone.

No rest today.
Ran 5.1 miles

Zach Miller:

Nice work, man. I hope you're not competing in my region for the 2009 CF Games! I've got a lot of work to do before then.

Excellent job!

Helen Today; travelling Sunday and suspect will miss opportunity for workout

400m x 3
21 x 1.5 pood x 3
12 pullups x 3

17:20; suspect apprx 2 min spent commuting between stations and PAC track

45# thruster-21-15-9
45# front squats 10-10-10; form

Jamesthered, comment 48

How many zone blocks is 4 Irish Stouts and 1 piece of Cake?

Well that would be:

Carbohydrates 107g
Fat 10g
protein 8g

Which is:

Almost 12 blocks of Carbs, so you got that covered

4 blocks of fat, very nice

and just a little over 1 block of protein.

You can zone this by eating the following with your beer and cake:

Half a pound of free range buffalo and 18 almonds :>)

So check this out, here is your zone recipe for Dinner:

1/4 pound of Free Range buffalo
1.5 Pints of Irish Stout
1/2 of a piece of chocolate cake with chocolate frosting
9 almonds

This is a 4 block meal :>)

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

38/M/177

"H20 Torture"

swim 50m
25 poolside-pullouts
25 KB 45lb WB subs
swim 50m
20 po's, 20 wb sub
swim 50m
15 po's, 15 wb sub
swim 50
12 po's,12 wb subs
swim 50m
10 po's, 10 wb subs
swim 50m

23:12

I posted this question 2 days ago maybe today there are some zone ninja's on that can help me out.
I don't have a car so when I go to the gym to do my WoD if I can't get a ride I run. It's 3 miles to the gym. So, in a given week i usually run at least 6 mi, but have the potential to run 36 mi.
Latley I have not been able to get a ride to the gym. I have been around 138-140lbs 5'6" 11%bf but yesterday i was 135. Im kinda worried about my body fat getting to low with all the running or my body starting to eat itself :/ What do you suggest my multiplier would be for the Zone? I am currently at 12 blocks. Or should I increase my fat blocks like x4? put some money away for a PoS car... thanks in advance..

-dave

Hello, hello.

Paul - those are great (and bittersweet) moments, always. One of my best friends and mentors retired yesterday at Quantico. He started as an E-1 and left as an O-5. He enlisted in the Marine Corps to get back at his dad (an Army officer in the old tradition from Vietnam). His old man would later joke (after my friend returned from boot camp as a very, very different lad) - "You really showed me."

Bingo - Interesting points. I think we get what we deserve to a certain extent, but part of it is simply ennui. I (and, I presume, everyone else) have a lot going on day-to-day. Who else isn't just tired of hearing someone, whether it's a telemarketer, TV advertiser, or email spammer, pandering to us.

Prole - Very well written and articulated points. I, too, would like to see better from our candidates. I look at Britain and I think that therein is some hope. I know the Brits sound smarter simply with the accent, but watch their political process and doesn't it just seem a tad more "enlightened"? Perhaps Kempie can disabuse me, but he's a transplanted Aussie anyway.

Which rounds out my contributions for the day - Kempie - CONGRAT-U-F'ING-LATIONS, MATE!! Now be prepared not to sleep for a while. I hear stout is wonderful when they're teething.

Peace.

No rest for me today as I've been a lazy girl this week. 50 minute spin class with the new instructor who apparently doesn't believe in rest. 589 cals burned, avg. hr 167, max hr 178. Ouch.

subbed a battle fitness test 13km ruckmarch 100m casuality carry

Just worked out my first client since getting certified. I'm excited.

I had him do a CFT and a scaled Fran, and I was impressed, considering he's 15 years older than I am and hasn't worked out in three years.

Then he spotted my Diane workout. I did 10:48 as Rxed. Anybody else got a Diane time? I've never seen a posting so I don't know where I stand with everyone else. I'm 24/m/157/5'9.

"I, too, would like to see better from our candidates. I look at Britain and I think that therein is some hope. I know the Brits sound smarter simply with the accent, but watch their political process and doesn't it just seem a tad more "enlightened"? Perhaps Kempie can disabuse me, but he's a transplanted Aussie anyway!"

Hmmm... if it is more "enlightened" here, I can't imagine that it's by much. Our two main parties are practically indistinguishable in policy terms; thus, it seems to me, judgement comes down to how well the current party is faring in a given situation. Also, speeches by the parties tend to be light on policy in any specific terms - but they do at least lay out the principles of their plans, and don't spend much time sending underhand insults at one another.

Alas, I also get the feeling that there are a number of people here who would not wish to live in a country where a National Health Service is practically a sine qua non of the political process.

Kempie:

HUGE CONGRATS!! First one? Biggest life change ever. Bigger than anything you and Mrs. Kempie have ever done. In the end it's all good...feel free to reach out when you are in doubt!

Darrell

Dale_Saran,

Above post was obviously directed at you.

Well, I'll have ample opportunity for comparison, they're broadcasting the Biden v. Palin debate here in the UK right now.

First day on DL (still not official until I see Orthopedics next week)

4 rds 500m Row (2 min rest in between)
1:39,1:41,1:45,1:51

Not sure if the erg will be allowed when I get the offical diagnosis so I hit it while I could.

Happy Birthday Erin (in8girl) !

JP

Prole #52:

Caplan and Kling are very strong libertarian-leaning economists. They run in the same circles as Hanson and Cowen but are not quite so ardent as McCardle. But Caplan's ideology is irrelevant to this discussion IMO. The trend in American politics is exactly in the opposite direction from that which you and Dale would like.

In a similar manner to the treatment of an infection, in order to effect a cure one must first stop the infection from getting worse; in order to improve the "rationality" of voter behavior one must first arrest the descent into greater "irrationality" (read more emotional response). Apropos the article we now have an increasing % of the voter population as a whole being splintered into ever smaller groups of like-minded individuals empowered by the internet to convene only with each other, getting less and less information that is counter to their own group ethos. A long-term effort to raise the quality of political discourse? Heck, we're still awash in the spiral.

I, too, yearn for Lincoln. I yearn for the next Churchill, and yet I fear that these leaders would be un-electable in today's America. IMO the most competent manager, the individual who would GOVERN most effectively of all the candidates in this election cycle proved to be un-electable. Fare thee well, Mitt Romney (think McCain would like a mulligan on that VP pick now, with the financial crisis?). IMO the most intelligent, thoughtful, and nimble thinker in my adult lifetime also turned out to be un-electable. Rest in peace, Paul Tsongas.

No, Prole, I'm afraid that I stand by my original thought: we get the candidates that we collectively deserve.

Front squat
195 x 3
215 x 3
235 x 3 (pr)
215 x 5

Back squats
235 x 15 (pr)

AMRAP in 10
5 overhead squats,115#
5 box jumps, 40"

7 rds + ohs + 1 box jump

5 x 100 m hill sprint.

Great book for virtually everyone. It's called Sway: The Irresistable Pull of Irrational Behaviour by Ori and Rom Brafman. I found it fascinating about the ways in which people can really do dumb things and make stupid choices. It would be funny if it weren't so scary. Then think of the current situations our nation is in...

CFE (run)Time Trial 2 miles / 17 mins Left hamstring still bugging me.

Did the WOD of yesterday.

After 6 reps, I switched to push jerks only as the hamstring was pulling during the clean. Kept going till 12. Shoulders felt awsome.

Enjoy your weekend!

I just want to extend my heartfelt thanks to Todd and Dana at BGI West Palm Beach. It's so amazing to be able to go almost anywhere in the country and have instant friends and comrades. I can't thank them enough for a wonderful FGB last Saturday and their hospitality this week. You guys rock. Looking forward to seeing you again soon.

Zach,

That was awesome bro, lookin' strong!

#23 Bingo
this has to be the first time I disagree with any post you have "posted" in the 2 + years I have been crossfitting. I'm so disconnected with "OUR" choice for president I'm not sure where to start. But to say we get the canidates we deserve is so absurd to me I can't believe that is how you feel.... did we deserve the financial crisis Clinton has put us in? did we deserve the crisis Bush has put us in with the amount of dead soldiers and civilians? maybe I took your comment wrong, hopefully I did.

and if you want to know who I think would turn this country around.... Ron Paul.

M/48/153/1-1-06

Crossfit Strength Experiment

CFWU x 3

Buy-in: 25 Toes to bar

WOD for time:
Run 200M
Push Press 90# 12 Reps
Run 200M
Push Press 100# 9 Reps
Run 200M
Push Press 110# 6 Reps
Run 200M
Push Press 120# 3 Reps

7:50

Cash-out 25 Ring Rows

1st post, did fight gone bad last saturday, twice actually first score was 326 then 359 an hour later got the technique down I guess. Payed for it dearly sore for three days. Anyone have info on overtraining? I have been doing two a days to lose some weight but have gotten nowhere in weeks now.

1st post, did fight gone bad last saturday, twice actually, first score was 326 then 359 an hour later got the technique down I guess. Payed for it dearly sore for three days. Anyone have info on overtraining? I have been doing two a days to lose some weight but have gotten nowhere in weeks now.

Kris #75:

Read me again more carefully, and read through the ongoing discussion that Prole and I are having (which, BTW, is how you are supposed to discuss this stuff, discussing ideas). Every word counts.

I said we get the CANDIDATES that we deserve. The choices we get are in part due to what we as an electorate have demonstrated will get our vote. In order to govern one must first be elected. Folks who for whatever reason wish to hold office have figured out what moves the electorate. Folks who help these people get elected likewise. There are any number of people on both sides of the political aisle who wonder if the wrong Bush ran for the Presidency in 2000, but perhaps the Bush who ran was the one who could be ELECTED, not necessarily the one who one could predict would have governed best.

The legacy of a president is leavened by time, its character always best evaluated with the buffer of distance and the absence of the emotion of the present. Two wonderful examples are Truman and Lincoln, both of whom were reviled by a substantial segment of the populace and the punditry of their day. I suspect that the economic and foreign policy legacies of both Presidents Clinton and GW Bush will be quite different when examined 30 years from now.

Perhaps that helps...

Dr. Demming's contribution to manufacturing was the system produces the results - if you want to build in quality, you have have a better system. You can't inspect quality in at the end. Reduce variation, then determine how to improve the system to best need the desired outputs. In present US politics, we have exceeded the limits that original constrained our Fed govt. The lack of constraints produces the absurd cat fights over power that we now see. The only rules seem to be 'whatever it takes to win.' The candidates who really say what they think get crushed early as the opposition uses any amount of truth speaking like a spear against the speaker.

Another explanation for the current process is well described here: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

Bottom line, broken record from Apolloswabbie: less power is the only way to get better people. Refocusing govt on only those few things govt does best is the solution. Pending a popular revolt against the 'more govt insanity' (in the form of specific constitutional restrictions on govt power) we'll see more govt, less efficiency, more waste, less productivity, reduced growth in standards of living, more and greater sense of entitlement, more catfights as folks of all stripes 'rent seek' to get someone else to pay the tab for their pet project.

Said another way: the politicians of today may be viewed as the result of a Darwinian process. The only ones that can survive in the current environment are the ones we see before us today. I think Bingo may be right that today's Churchills would have been eliminated from the political 'gene pool.' Very few exceptions to that come to mind on the national stage, but I was standing next to one this AM (but couldn't get close enough to shake his hand) - Senator Lamar Alexander. I know of no instance in which he's either compromised his principles in office nor prostituted himself to gain office. McCain is close - but he seems in my view to have no political principles in the first place; he shoots from the hip. Paul

24/m/5'7"/153#

Did "Cindy" with the poolees at the recruiting office today.

16 rounds

Tied my PR with about 30 seconds to spare, after 3 weeks of inactivity. Very happy with that. Pretty sure I didn't miscount the rounds, but there is an off chance it may have been 15 rounds. Amazing what doing a WOD with someone else will do for motivation...

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

Personally, I have a more fundamental view of the market, but I do like to listen to some technical analysis for balance. Tim Wood is a technical analyst that I have followed over the last two or three years and he has been warning that things could get ugly.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html

Also, for anyone who enjoys economic discussions you may want to listen to the Financial Sense Radio program tomorrow morning. I find their program informative (esp. if you have a contrarian orientation).

Usually hour 1 and hour 3 of the program are pretty interesting. Looks like hour 2 will be about gold investing.

Enjoy.

I posted a pretty extensive reply to several people and it appears to have vanished...will get back to that today after the nutrition cert at GSX.

10-3-08

15th Anniversary of TF Ranger in Somalia (Black Hawk Down). Prayers for the 18 soldiers who died.

needed the rest!!

Did "Cindy" today, 12 rounds. A lot harder than it sounds...

Bingo, Dale, Kris, Paul,

So, now that we are in the position of inspecting for quality at the end, and we don't like what we see, how do we reverse the trend?

I'm sure some of you will disagree, but my inclination is to pour more money (or smarter money) into public education. If you prefer, pour the money into teachers' salaries, create bonuses for good teachers and fire bad ones, make it competitive, open up the public education system to that engine of progress (and destruction) called ambition. Don't create/raise ' fees - don't penalize students, don't, as Jefferson said, let accident or circumstance deprive a child of a liberal education, and the nation of that child's creativity. Also, support teachers and be frank with parents.

Of course, things like voter turnout, and voter/candidate quality may be unrelated. I have no empirical data (i.e. comparative) to support me.

But, it seems to me Jefferson got it more or less right when he wrote:

"Convinced that the people are the only safe depositories of their own liberty, and that they are not safe unless enlightened to a certain degree, I have looked on our present state of liberty as a short-lived possession unless the mass of the people could be informed to a certain degree." -- Letter to Littleton Waller Tazewell, 1805.

"It is an axiom in my mind that our liberty can never be safe but in the hands of the people themselves, and that, too, of the people with a certain degree of instruction. This is the business of the state to effect, and on a general plan." -- Letter to George Washington, 1786.

"The most effectual means of preventing [the perversion of power into tyranny are] to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts which history exhibits, that possessed thereby of the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their natural powers to defeat its purposes."

"Laws will be wisely formed and honestly administered in proportion as those who form and administer them are wise and honest; whence it becomes expedient for promoting the public happiness that those persons whom nature has endowed with genius and virtue should be rendered by liberal education worthy to receive and able to guard the sacred deposit of the rights and liberties of their fellow citizens; and that they should be called to that charge without regard to wealth, birth or other accidental condition or circumstance. But the indigence of the greater number disabling them from so educating at their own expense those of their children whom nature has fitly formed and disposed to become useful instruments for the public, it is better that such should be sought for and educated at the common expense of all, than that the happiness of all should be confined to the weak or wicked." --Thomas Jefferson: Diffusion of Knowledge Bill, 1779.

friday's wo:
#1 6 sets- 200m sprint/bw bench max reps

#2 5 sets sdhp(65lbs)x20, 5 sets double unders x 50

Prole #40, #91,

Whenever I might be interested in a review, whether it be of a book, a movie, a technical paper, or what have you, I discard all the rave notices, the 5 stars out of 5, and concentrate on the poorest. The favorable reviews are fatally infected by publicists.

But among the negative reviews, I must discard those having nothing substantive to say. For example, a reference to “much of your analysis” is a weasley phrase for a quantity, large or infinitessimal, that the critic was either unable or too lazy to assess. Weasley: from a cunning, sneaky person; evading an obligation or duty.

A phrase like “more or less correct” means the critic had no specifics, so waves his pen about in pointless circles in the air.

You quoted me as referring to “'charlatans and hate merchants'” in connection with my bad manners. For support, you name-drop some lofty philosophers' names to say manners are what separates the civilized from the barbarians. What connection are you trying to make? Aren't the charlatans and hate merchants the barbarians? Am I not on the side of the civilized? Or was it your ox I gored?

Now you did say my style was “rat-a-tat”. Does that mean crisp, staccato, bullet-like precision, machine gun lethality, short and to the point? I think that is something all the blog posters might strive to attain.

You put me in good company when you arrogantly say of Jefferson that he, too, got things “more or less right”. But I'd like to hear how you might convert any of your noble quotatons into a specific course of action of any sort at all. How might you have “the people” be “enlightened”?

Jefferson would “illuminate … the minds of the people”. If we had an inkling how Prole contemplates doing that, we migh understand why Prole ever made the quotation.

Your closing quotation from Jefferson exhorting public education is priceless - babble in its time, and utter failure today. What is the proportion of adminstrators of the law who are “wise and honest”? Who is to be the judge? Where are we to place California Chief Justice Rose Bird vs. Antonin Scalia?

What is the “genius and virtue” behind “liberal education”. Do you hold that socialism, as inflicted or planned, and Affirmative Action are the kinds of administration “without regard to wealth, birth or other accidental condition or circumstance”?

Don't you think Jefferson would be shocked at the state of public education in the US today? US educators are, including those on the left who are the cause of the disgrace.

Your own writing and your criticism of mine are the opposite of “rat-a-tat”. What should we call all rounded edges with a soft middle, “clunk-a-thud”? You need to illuminate your position with at least a specific or two, and to show the good manners and common decency to provide at least one specific in criticism of mine.

Rat-a-tat.

My point Jeff, is that good manners are a great help to effective communication, which is necessary for cooperative deliberation and/or instruction.

From your post:

"Additionally, we demonstrated that increased pattern perception has a motivational basis by measuring the need for structure directly and showing that the causal link between lack of control and illusory pattern perception is reduced by affirming the self."

And then:

"Who lacks control, both self and political, more than a bunch of college students? Immature, naïve, typically late blooming, non-veterans, disproportionally raised on the twin retardants Ritalin and pot - perfect constituents for the Pied Pipers of pessimism, victimhood, and national conspiracies, from AGW and environmentalism, from passivism to housing bubbles. Highly wired indeed - plugged in and turned on. Just the potting mix for liberal arts professors, Naomi Wolf, Bill Maher, Jeremiah Wright, Jay Leno, and today's subject, charlatans and hate merchants on the web, Media Matters, huffingtonpost, Moveon.org, to sew their seeds."

For my bad manners I'll promise not to comment on your machine-gunning in the future.

great posts guys!! Keep up the good work ;)

ran 12km 70mn 250D+/-

Clud a thud. Classic.

Few thoughts. First, it struck me that the article was another of these hopes that we might get surprised by a sudden turnaround at the polls. Personally, I think it there's a big gap in the polling, the leader is likely to win.

His point that we have effectively formed ideological ghettoes with the Web is of course accurate. What I have experienced as well is that the Web has facilitated coercive discourse, in the sense that people on the Left prefer to insult, annoy, and distract anyone who does not share their ideas. I have been kicked off sites for representing conservative ideas too well.

But why would this be? In my local city magazine, the very liberal editor is constantly talking about how intellectually corrupt conservatives are, how if people could just be led to think they would never even think about voting for McCain. He says this, and so do most liberals I talk with. The presumption--the clear presumption--is that their ideas are so good they don't need to be debated, and in my own experience they get mad when anyone offers a spirited defense of anything Bushian, conservative, or out of their ordinary in any way at all.

What everyone needs to understand is that there is not one irrational person on this planet. Not one. EVERY idea is rational, GIVEN THEIR PRESUPPOSITIONS.

For example, universal healthcare makes sense, if you presume that we owe this to the citizens of our nation, and that there is no means by which to accomplish the same goal without involving the government. It's self evident.

If you posit that CO2 emissions go into the atmosphere and never come out, and that they increase mean global temperature, then obviously something needs to be done.

This can continue, but the point should be clear.

For this reason the sort of education we need is not so much in the use of Reason, per se, but in the process of perception. We are particularly weak as a nation in history and economics.

We have had several articles talking about the decline in attention and depth of thought which has attended growing up on the internet. The reality is, all new facts which are added by the daily news have to flow into an established, relatively stable set of facts within which they can be contextualized. If we lack context, we are going to believe whatever the media reports. Quite often, the context as well is provided by the media.

This is how things like the Alberto Gonzalez case became political issues. People only know and seemingly only want to know what they are told. And with the decline, supposedly, of the MSM, there are plenty of equally liberal websites, and webzines jumping into the gap.

And if you want specific reinforcement, just find a site that agrees with you completely. This is how effective propaganda is conducted. Deduct all history, deduct all critical thinking, and then simply repeat what you want people to believe long enough, and you get it.

This is how Obama got to where he is. Bush has been a decent President, who has made needed decisions when they needed to be made, and has not fared that badly. He has faced serious challenges, and that he has had difficulty with some of them speaks to the fact that, indeed, they were difficult.

I'm rambling a bit. I have some other writing to knock out. I'm sure I'll be back on this one.

Bingo #72 makes a good point when he says:

"...we now have an increasing % of the voter population as a whole being splintered into ever smaller groups of like-minded individuals empowered by the internet to convene only with each other, getting less and less information that is counter to their own group ethos."

Crossfit Rest Day discussions buck that trend for me. I like that there is debate on here between people with different views and I've certainly been challenged over the last few months to justify my own set of opinions - which is a good thing. This kind of interaction isn't one I would otherwise seek out. Before joining in these debates, I hadn't met anyone who would have best described their philosophy as "libertarian". I also hadn't interacted with anyone who disagreed with "AGW".

For the most part, the interaction is well mannered debate and this is something great for us all to preserve.

Lastly, Jeff #38:

"...a bunch of college students? Immature, naïve, typically late blooming, non-veterans, disproportionally raised on the twin retardants Ritalin and pot - perfect constituents for the Pied Pipers of pessimism, victimhood, and national conspiracies, from AGW and environmentalism, from passivism to housing bubbles. Highly wired indeed - plugged in and turned on. Just the potting mix for liberal arts professors, Naomi Wolf, Bill Maher, Jeremiah Wright, Jay Leno, and today's subject, charlatans and hate merchants on the web, Media Matters, huffingtonpost, Moveon.org, to sew [sic] their seeds."

Mate, do you not think you've lost the plot a bit on that one...? I could try write up something similarly belittling about people who get their views from Bill O'Reilly and chose not to go to University, but I doubt I'd win anyone over to my side of the argument... Hats off to you though, it's a great bit of writing!

Peace.

Barry that's a very well thought out post. I've noticed the same thing on the Web - there is very limited opportunity for intelligent discourse rather there is just much cheering for "our team". The fun thing is that you can go to the "other team's" world and have some fun at their expense without risking life and limb.
Too bad but how do we change it? Can we change it given human nature to associate with like-minded individuals? How do we move from a web culture of dogmatic thinkers to one of critical thinkers (or are we really a more critically thinking population that we perceive)?
For instance, I'd like to learn why you think Bush has been a "decent" President while I believe he's been possibly the worst President in over a century.
Later.

Jim,

There is perhaps a sort of market-solution to this problem: make people pay for access to sites and opinions.

If I knew I could only afford to read 100 (or 20 or 5 etc) pages of opinion/analysis a month perhaps I would be more discriminating. I might consider reading opinions I didn't "like" as a small price to pay for otherwise having access to first rate writing in a publication with high editorial standards. Reader demand might act as a pressure on editors to move to the centre, or to keep their points of view while treating opposing positions respectfully if only to more effectively discredit them (hopefully avoiding orthodoxy).

Perhaps not, perhaps the market would always be big enough for niche publications to simply confirm prejudices; perhaps people prefer to have their prejudices confirned. Also, widespread user-fees would undo much of the "democratization" of the nation's intellectual life that has occured on the web. But then, perhpas this democratization has been a race to the bottom, or a race to the edges?

Aha! But there are libraries - yes, I almost forgot - places where edited books and edited periodicals can be read for free.

Jim,

Carter was our worst President in the last century. No doubt of that in my mind at all.

With respect to Bush, the simple fact of the matter is that the Left has a system whereby they concoct stories either out of whole fabric, or based on a shred of truth, then they feign outrage over and over so that their "big lie" becomes the received truth of people.

Take Iraq. Al Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry: all of them believed an invasion was the only way ultimately to deal with the problem. We found literally tons of materials only used to make nuclear weapons in 1991. As late as 2003, there were two tons of nerve gas unaccounted for. Saddam was starving his people, and the UN and UN cronies like Germany, Russia, and France were voting against us because they were getting kickbacks from Iraq.

Hussein sponsored a conference of terrorists organizations, and was showing every sign of becoming a locus of terror sponsorship. Add to that his continuing refusal to adhere to the treaty he signed ending the first Gulf War, and you had both legal cause, and strategic reason for the invasion.

We thought it would be easier than it was. It could have been, had our strategy been better. Hindsight is 20/20 though. We now have a system in place which can be carried, as John McCain said, to Afghanistan, and even--if I understood him correctly--to Pakistan. Pakistan has, in effect, an insurgency like that in Iraq, and based on reports I've been reading, the Taliban may be wearing out their welcome, like Al Queda did in Iraq.

Patriot Act. You have to understand that in 1976 Ted Kennedy and other Congressional Democrats continued their policies of subverting the Constitution by taking powers intended for the Executive and moving them to Congress. Powers like the power to act as Commander in Chief.

They put a very short leash on our intelligence services in the form of the Foreign Intelligence Services Act. This act greatly reduced our capacity to gather intelligence, and in point of fact we found in the 1990's, after the fall of the Soviet Union, that there was a LOT of activity we had no clue about.

The Patriot Act amended the most egregious restrictions placed on the Executive, while making sure that judicial oversight was retained. You still have to get warrants. You can just have them approved after the surveillance. This is to increase speed, without giving any agency a blank check.

In surveillance on a Mafia boss, you tap their phone, which means when someone calls, you listen to both sids. Obviously, this is how you map networks and gather information. With the Patriot Act, you can tag someone overseas, and then listen when they call someone in the US. Leftists love to scream about this, but it appears to me to be common sense. If a known terrorist is calling someone in the US, would it not be useful to know what they are talking about? Common sense, not an outrage.

Tax cuts. They worked. Bush inherited a recession from the dot com bust, then 9/11, and managed to salvage a pretty good economy. We are not officially in a recession, and weren't even close when Obama started telling us how awful things were. They weren't awful. They aren't awful. After this financial problem, we may indeed get a recession, but not because our fundamentals were not solid. This is a crisis of trust, not of capital.

Reality is, 71% of the taxes last year were paid by 10% of Americans. This is a 30 year high, and seems "fair" (to use Biden's phrase) to me. Soak the rich has been a socialist slogan forever. However it presumes money is fixed in place. In our global economy money can be moved. Anyone who thinks their taxes are now too high may decide to be "unpatriotic" and move their money elsewhere.

This, combined with Obama's massive new expenditures, will lead to the necessity of raising taxes on the Middle Class, and a long term decrease in private sector, structual investment in our economy. That may well lead to a Depression.

What else about Bush bothers you? He's inarticulate, no doubt. But his policies bear scrutiny, where those of Obama don't.

As far as how we reenergize Americans for serious consideration of serious issues, I'm about at the point where I think we need a massive f^&*ing crisis that reminds all of them that they lead pampered, sheltered lives, and that if they want to be idiots they need to understand there are consequences.

Reading up on Obama, he wants to spend much more on the military, healthcare, infrastructure, education, alternative energy, global warming remediation, and social programs. He wants to finance this $800 billion increase by tax hikes on the top 5% of income earners. He says no new taxes will be seen by the middle class.

Look, I know the guy is slick. But are Americans really that dumb? It's looking like they are.

Barry, #97, check this video out from TED, germane to your post. You'll enjoy it. I downloaded the file and played from disk. Paul
Another explanation for the current process is well described here: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

For what its worth, I did confirm that Warren Buffet holds large stakes in GE. GE is heavily invested in wind and other alternative energy technologies.

Obama is Buffet's crony. This is crony capitalism that will invest huge sums of taxpayer money to invest in technology that may not work, to solve at least one problem--anthropogenic global warming--which does not seem to exist.

For what it's worth, Obama was also the single largest recipient of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, after Christopher Dodd.

Do Obama supporters really think the beautiful rhetoric flowing out of those baritone pipes will generate positive change?

Paul,

Watched the video. It makes some sense to me. I am very leary, though, of the effort of psychologists to reduce human cultural and emotional life to a framework which fits within science. To me, life precedes science, and mythic systems must work in tandem with truth systems.

Our cognitive lives determine the content of our affective and perceptual capacities, and they can never be preceded by science. Science is an outgrowth of our thinking.

This is a subtle but important point. I am referring in particular to his desire to reduce what I would term myth to predispositions of the brain, which echoes Chomsky's ideas on the intrinsic nature of language, which is in his view in effect hard wired into the brain.

Where this goes is notions of intrinsic, biologically based morality, which lead to notions that only cultural malfunction creates societal and personal deviancy.

This takes personal choice--and personal moral reasoning--off the stage. He quite clearly is a liberal himself, and ultimately only making the case for conservative thinking in order to demonstrate his own deeper tolerance. This is a good step for a liberal to take, but it still places the debate beyond the framework of philosophical analysis. All he is doing is telling his audience that they will win more converts if they understand their enemy.

That was my net takeaway.

Paul,
I watched the video too. I thought it was interesting that Haidt set aside libertarians at the start.

He posits (he might say that he "identifies") five moral values that serve as the foundations of Morality. They are:
(1) harm/care
(2) fairness/reciprocity (including justice, and rights),
(3) ingroup/loyalty,
(4) authority/respect, and
(5) purity/sanctity.

He says liberals have "moral intuitions" fitting within numbers (1-2) while conservatives have more moral intuitions in (3-5).

I don't think he ever went back to libertarians. How do you think they would fit within this scheme? Might they fall almost entirely in number (2)?

Anyway, I thought it was interesting. He had 18 minutes and he communicated his ideas well within that time. Of course his "cognitive" pillars can be traced to Hume and Kant, but his use of surveys to supply data for his graphs added a level of concreteness to his notions about intuitions.

Barry, I don't think there is much that Haidt said that isn't compatible with a "mythic" point of view. Having said that I know you're trying to come to terms with your own understanding of "mythic" - one of these days you should find a way to give us a couple of hundred words on that topic (of course relevant to that day's topic). There's an interesting book titled "Words with Power" by Northrop Frye (a Canadian literary scholar who was at one point in the 20thC once of the most quoted academics in the word), and the thesis of this book is that literature and political theory, like human concerns, can be divided into those that are with "primary" and those that are with "secondary". Primary concerns are those animated by the most fundamental and non-controversial affirmations: that life is better than death, happiness is better than misery, freedom better than bondage. Secondary concerns include loyalties: to one's own society, to one's religious or political beliefs, to one's place in the class structure [sorry], to everything we (used) to think of as ideology.

Frye, argued that ideologies (and their attendant loyalties) are really just rationalizations of secondary concerns. But, (and here's the part I thought you might be interested in), myths and mythologies, on the other hand are inextricably linked to primary concerns. On this understanding, secondary concerns arise from the social contract, whereas primary concerns are anterior (this is not Rousseau, though it is Romantic, influenced by decades of studying William Blake and the Bible). He says that the manner of expression most connected to primary concerns are mythic, including metaphor and symbol while the manner of expression most connected to secondary concerns and ideology are rhetoric and propaganda. The two are not entirely distinct, and his book isn't story of the fuzzy superiority or greater authenticity of myth over ideology. Anyway, thought you might be interested - goes well also with the first chapters of Toynbee's History.

Paul, Barry, and Prole:

Now that was some good stuff. Thanks for letting me watch--learned something.