woot! Need this bad.

Lone Survivor.."Murph" a true hero!

The last book I read was Anna Karenina. I believe that it had limitless applicability to Crossfit and it's programming.

Ahhhhhhhhh rest day!

I've got a couple going right now, but this question always reminds me of interviewing residency candidates when I was in training. The residency program director always asked each candidate this question. Best answer ever? "Goodnight Moon"!

The clinic director and I, both parents of small children, were on the floor laughing. The Program Director, a lifelong bachelor, had no idea what the candidate was talking about...

NeXt by Michael Crichton

If you haven't read his paper on Eugenics, it will make you think. Great conversation starter.

The Kite Runner...

Great read.

Lone Survivor

Good Calories, Bad Calories

haven't read a book in a while but I'm gonna order Lone Survivor.........Rest Day!......But I still have my Burpees to do! Enjoying The 100 day Burpee Challenge......it is only day 13 though...Have a good rest day!

The Year of Living Biblically, AJ Jacobs

Today was my first day of law school at the University of Texas at Austin. I may never read a book for pleasure ever again. So, Mr. Jacobs may have the honor of also being my last. :-)

Last read - Protein Power Life Plan, to get a more scientific basis on my diet. Better (for my purposes) than the Zone books.

Reading now - The Cold War, A New History, by John Lewis Gaddis. Goes well with his essay here (WFS): http://www.the-american-interest.com/ai2/article.cfm?Id=459&MId=21

Very interesting.

Erotica by Anais Nin

Read some Thomas books with Ethan when we were locked out of the house today... until I kicked the door in.

Beyond the Band of Brother: Memoirs of Major Dick Winters

Amazing.

"Three Cups of Tea"
"Nothing to Lose"; Lee Child

Pretty much finished simultaneously.

bingo, i read goodnight moon to my daughter every night... a true classic.

goodnight noises everywhere.

Confessions of a Yakuza: Junichi Saga

The Road by Cormac McCarthy

Bingo you got me.....I was just about to type "The Gypsy Princess", a fairy tale for my 3 little girls before bed tonight, when I read your post. Made me laugh. The last serious one was "American Heroes" by Ollie North, a true testimony to all you guys who keep my family and me free and safe!! Thank you all!

Fiction: The Last Oracle, James Rollins

Non-Fiction: Good Calories, Bad Calories, Gary Taubes.

I can clearly picture you kicking a door in, Allison.

The Age of Turbulence by Alan Greenspan

Last book I read was Rant by Chuck Palahniuk

Last book was

Starting Strength 2nd Edition

awesome.....never had so much information in such an easy to read fashion, really brought my training to a-whole-nother level

When Pride Still Mattered: A Life of Vince Lombardi by David Maraniss.

Awesome video.....one of my clients asked me when she could do some real H S P U,s so we were going to start Fri on them.......what a great tool why didn't I think of that.....Thanks

The Lorax

I'm halfway through War Dog by Al Venter
but the last book I read was Chosen Soldier by Dick Couch

Happy Rest Day, everybody!

I didn't read his books but I got a briefing from Dave Grossman on Tuesday. Very good stuff.

The Revolution by Ron Paul
Legalize the Constitution!

Just started God, Guns, and Rock and Roll
by Ted Nugent

Lone Survivor.

Seems like a popular book here.
Excellent read and really made me give it my all for "Murph"

Currently reading "Choke" by Chuck Palahniuk, but Starting Strength is always out.

"The Art of Racing in the Rain"

-- A great book for any dog lover.

Lone Survivor and What the Buddha Taught, at the same time.

did that guy in the background check out his biceps at the beginning of the video? that's awesome.

REST DAY!!!!!!!!

Graphic Novel - Watchmen

:]

Retribution - Max Hastings. Best new book in print about the Pacific component of World War II. Too bad there's so little about marines in it.

Wild at Heart
by John Eldredge

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Wild-at-Heart/John-Eldredge/e/9780785268833/?itm=2

Great book for a christian man.

Last Book:

Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

Absolutely amazing book - phenomenal story and quite a thought provoking philosophy behind it.

If anyone has read Atlas Shrugged, please say something because I would most definitely like to discuss it with someone else.

*Christian

The Coming Plague: Newly Emerging Diseases In A World Out Of Balance by Laurie Garrett
and
Junie B. Jones Loves Handsome Warren (I love Junie, she cracks me up!) My youngest daughter is hooked on Junie.

"in the great green room there was a telephone and a red ballon....and a picture of"

-Damn I love that book. Loved it as a kid and love reading it to my kids now.

Mines a bedtime book for Moms and Dads after the kids go to bed called "Finding The Doorbell" I discovered it on Eva T's website and I am so glad I did!

The last book I read.. Hagakuri

The book I read daily.. The Bible

The Giraffe and the Pelly and Me

Last book I read was Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fulfillment: George Leonard

Excellent book.

"Gates of Fire" by: Steven Pressfield - a great fiction about life, death, and glory at thermopalye.

"The Gunslinger" by: Steven King. For the third time

"1984" no author needed...

The Progress Paradox by Gregg Easterbrook

The Reason for God by Tim Keller
http://www.thereasonforgod.com/

Assault on Lake Casitas. Every athlete should read this book.

good calories bad calories and the essays of warren buffet

A Woman in Charge by Carl Bernstein

Fiction: last finished Lone Survivor; almost through Hearts in Atlantis by Stephen King

Non-Fiction: Treat Your Own Rotator Cuff by Jim Johnson (need to get my shoulder fixed before I can do the majority of WODs as Rx'd!)

Endurance.

The story of Ernest Shackelton's journey to the south pole, and the heroic rescue of his men two years later.

Finishing: Good calories Bad Calories and Blink simoultaneously.

Im reading like 5 text books at school hah.

Good segway to my other topic though

CALLING ALL UNT/DENTON TX CROSSFITTERS!

ive seen a few comments on here from other Dentonites, but lets meet up and do some of these WODS, theres lots of good places around the UNT campus to do them. maybe we could start a facebook group to comunicate...or eventually a club? that could be cool. i think ill start a facebook group. so come find it and lets get it going

Apples to Oysters - author (a food critic) travels through Canada picking a local food that is grown organically and with quality in mind. A lot of good nutritional facts. Thought a lot about zone fat intake during the Flax seed chapter.
A very good read.

Feast of the Goat by Llosa. Novel of the end of the Trujillo dictatorship in Dominican Republic. Well written, driving narrative. Features the heroism of the resistors, the horrors of the regime, and the universal thirst for freedom.

It would be great if when people posted they said why they did/didn't like their book.

Also, Coach, I think if Milton Friedman deserved a day of comments on his death, I think Solzhenitsyn does also. Great man, great writer, great voice of freedom.

Started Pinker (stuff of thought) this weekend.
For semantics I'll stick to Talmud (waaay more engaging).

Much needed rest.....looking for a set of Adidas O-Lifting shoes, size 11.5, can anyone help?

Could someone please explain the 100 Day Burpee Challenge? I'm a newbie and can't find any particular description, but I've seen a few posts about it. Just trying to figure out if it's 100 burpees a day or the daily number of burpees. I'm intrigued after my first burpees today...

The Watchmen

I saw the trailer and had to finish the book (graphic novel, whatever)...I had collected and read something like the first eight episodes in the 80s but didn't finish it (and don't have the last few chapters, unfortunately).

Pretty good, though likely better when I was younger. Funny that.

I still hope they don't screw up the movie.

Now I'm working on Getting Things Done, I'm curious how it'll compare to the 7 Habits.

howard

"world war Z". awesome book on global politics and world disaster with a bizarre twist

#51 Lone Survivor is a true story.
Simple Genius by David Baldacci

Goin on 9 days of doin CrossFit and loving it. Wish I had found it earlier. Last book I read was The Last Amazon by Steven Pressfield. I saw on comment #46 that Raze mentioned Gates of Fire already, I recommend that one and Pressfield's other books too if you are into historical fiction.

Just finished "Nothing to Lose" by Lee Child (at the beach)
Just starting "God's Middle Finger" by Richard Grant

Next up...."The Post American World" by Fareed Zakaria

Just finished "You Shall Know Our Velocity" by Dave Eggers yesterday. I'd have to say a decent book. Good stream of consciousness gives the reader a good sense of the narrator. I read it as a prep for Ulysses, but I'm not quite sure that is a "bus ride to work" book. Someday, Joyce, someday.

Enjoy the rest day everyone.

Amy

Working on Good Calories, Bad Calories. Starting a fiction book for a book club next week - can't remember what it is, still have to find it at the library.

A Thousand Splendid Suns was my last fiction.

I tend to prefer non-fiction, although I certainly didn't in college!

Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.. great novel, looking forward to reading Anthem

Other summer reading included: Omnivores Delema, Good Calories Bad Calories, Beyond Prozac, Lights Out, Protein Power, and The Zone Diet

Thanks Coach!!

"Fermat's Enigma", by Simon Singh

"Reading the Man, A Portrait of Robert E. Lee Through His Private Letters", by Elizabeth Brown Pryor

#59 Kristen: read this link re: Burpee Challenge
http://www.crossfitsantacruz.com/crossfit_santa_cruz/burpee-challenge-details.html

A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn. Mind-blowingly good book. It should be required reading in our public schools.

The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives by Leonard Mlodinow

Physics of The Impossible by Michio Kaku

The Virgin's Lover- Philippa Gregory

Just finished the entire trilogy by Phillip Pullman, His Dark Materials. Book 1 is Golden Compass, 2 is The Subtle Knife, 3 is The Amber Spyglass. Very creative, fantastic, risky fiction. Seems like I always love the ones the book burners want to torch...

The Yiddish Policeman's Union by Michael Chabon

"a new earth", eckhard tolle
a superb spiritual read! he also wrote "power of now" which comes highly recommended.

Working through Zen and Japanese Culture right now. Last finished was Hagakure. Wonder if it's at all similar to DJ's Hagakuri. :-)

corrections "The Yiddish Policemen's Union

#5 Bingo- What kind of doc are you?

"The Book Thief" by Markus Zusak

Just starting "And If I Perish" about WWII Army nurses.

How to Better Hate Your Job
by Egbert Sukop

Book junky here
Currently reading "Crooked Little Vein" by Warren Ellis and "Traffic: Why we drive the way we do and what it says about us" by FNU Vandesomething.
Finished Star Wars-Republic Commando-Triple Zero (Also a star wars junky)
Also recently finish "Killing Rommell" by Stephen Pressfield. It wasn't great like Gates of Fire, but was very good.

what a useless sesame street video. that could have been cut down to a 5-second equipment demonstration.

the reason why his group was unresponsive was because he was taking 15 minutes to say what could have been demonstrated in 1.

New Earth by Tolle for the 4th time.... or is the the first time!

Joey Johns - The two of me

The last book I read was "The Paleo Diet" by Loren Cordain (seriously)

Vietnam: the Necessary War, by Michael Lind. If you read "A Better War", by Lewis Sorley, then this book, you will know all you need to know to tear to pieces all the BS revisionist leftist historians have written about the Vietnam War, and will find a reinvigorated contempt for Tom Hayden, Todd Gitlin and all their fellow travellers.

"Dangerous Waters - Modern Day Piracy and Terror on the High Seas" by John S. Burnett

The last book I read was The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. Its amazing how much the socialism that this country has always stood against is visible in today's politics. Ive asked many people what they believe as far as politics goes, asked them if they know what socialism is/means, then finally told them what socialism ACTUALLY is so that they can see how much their beliefs are right on target with the politics of Marxism. Its always fun to see their reaction when they find out they are a communist in denial.

If you dont know about the past, your bound to repeat its mistakes.

Finished "Guns Germs & Steel" by Jared Diamond a few weeks ago. It was entertaining anthropology. Well written, well supported, and amazingly informative. I definitely feel that I am better for having read it.

Right now, I'm in the middle of "Origin of Species" (Charles Darwin) and "Watchmen." "Origin" is not quite as I expected it. But Darwin presents his case quite humbly and with a huge variety of supporting examples and observations. Part of me wishes that science was still done they way he did it; a much more personal, less professional/clinical approach. Excellent reading.
"Watchmen" seems to be a pretty deep graphic novel. I'm enjoying it and am anticipating that the movie will do it justice.

I have to respond to a few of the people in here who seem to share reading tastes with me.

Chuck Palahniuk is an awesome author and has waged an unholy war on my mind with his fantastic narration. Choke is still my favorite of his books.

"Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield is one of my favorite books as well. Such an excellent story told about a completely inspiring event. I wish very deeply that they had adapted Pressfield's book into film, rather than Frank Miller's ludicrous hallucination of the event.

And finally, Ron Paul is the man. A true patriot. If all politicians were like him, we would have very little to worry about. He's on my list of personal heroes.

Been reading an MCAT prep guide book for 3 months, and I can't wait to put the damn thing down...

Strong Enough - Mark Rippetoe

Great collection. Still not sure about the picture with the horse and the tunic though.

Echo Burning, by Lee Child. It is part of the Jack Reacher series. Reacher is an ex-MP who kicks serious ass... It's great escapist entertainment.

Once an Eagle by Anton Myrer.

Best war novel going I'm told. Used at West Point and the War College in Leadership classes.

#78 Quinn

bingo is a witch doctor. he's constantly coming up with new combinations of wing of bat and eye of newt.

The Four Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferris, and Do It Tomorrow by Mark Forster, basically I am trying to get out of work

"A Prayer for Owen Meany" by John Irving

Selected Stories (Alice Munroe).

Women Gender and Enlightenment (Barbara Taylor and Sarah Knott eds.).

Rafiki,

You're the right age for that book. It's a powerful one, but it's only one. Read widely. Find your own answers. At its best, it can act as a stimulus for the study of philosophy and self-examination. At its worst, it is a tiny, mean-spirited black box tied tight with a tautology. If you run into one of the campus clubs devoted to her be weary of the folks who tell, or try to shame you into, winnowing down your reading list and 'purify' your intellectual tastes. Objectivity thrives on dissent.

Just finished "On the Road" by Jack K. and I am about 2/3 of the way through "Peoples History of the United States" by Zinn. Enjoyed/enjoying both...

Freakonomics by Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt and M16/M4 by Mike Pannone

#40, ha, I have read goodnight moon nearly every night for the last 15 months. We now have Good Night New York City... to break up the monotony

What is the What - Dave Eggers

Great read. Especially if you're interested in what's been happening in Sudan.

"You've Been Warned" by James Patterson finished last night. Next up "The Mystery of the Blue Train" by Agatha Christie

Forgot the other book I'm reading: "How to reinvigorate your hate." - I'm so so joking Barry. Couldn't help it. I know you can take it.

I recently finished The Sword of Truth Series by Terry Goodkind not my usual choice but got hooked on the first book and continued to the end.

Also saw a couple of people mentioned Atlas Shrugged that is my all time favorite book. If you enjoyed Atlas you should check out Fountain Head as well.

Can anyone help me?

Sorry for the off-topic post.

A coupla months back one of the affiliates posted something on their blog about "how to know if you have been sipping too much of the cool-aide." Funniest damn thing I ever read. Wanted to show it to a friend but can't remember where it is.

Any ideas on how to find it? Tried STFW - no help. THX in advance...

Kite Runner

Great insight into another's culture. In some ways what happens in the book is probably similar to what is happening in Georgia right now.

did the 800m runs and shoulder press, pp, pj wod today.

as rx'd: 13:01

#82 genghis

it's a training video dude. did you know how to use bands like that before this video? lighten up.

Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke. Great Fiction novel about magic and magicians, its an adult version of the Harry Potter Books. Its set in the time of Napoleon and the war between the French and English. Read it dozens of times and will read it dozens more.

chuck palahniuk, tom robbins, and hunter thompson are my favorite authors. just read end of the road by john barth and madame bovary by flaubert. currently in the middle of the sot-weed factor another book by john barth. good so far.

'the power of one' - bryce courtenay

check it out. its good.

like many if you...

Lone Survivor

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond

Excuse the shouting, but i have been doing crossfit for 2 weeks now and everyone talks about "cool-aide" i have looked everywhere for an explaination but cant find one... so WHAT IS THIS COOL-AIDE YOU ALL SPEAK OF?????
That is all.... lol

favorite book?

hmm love the power of now.

for the ladies: how to date like a man or how to avoid falling in love with a jerk. :P ya good stuff there.

The Prince of the Marshes: And Other Occupational Hazards of a Year in Iraq by Rory Stewart

Also recommend his first book The Places in Between

#113

Google Jim Jones and the Jones Town Massacre.

Lone Survivor

I pretty much missed this last cycle. I got lazy.

Tonight I went to the gym just work on my form for squats. I worked on driving my hips into them more and my max actually increased from 285 to 305. Word Up.

The Old Man and the Sea
Ernest Hemingway

It is one of my favorites now.

I can't remember the last book I read so I'll just say the last Harry Potter. Last book I remember reading (other than School)

Just finishing War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy. This is actutally my fourth time to read it but first time to actually get past the first 3 chapters. Very boring at the beginning.

#113 My understanding of "Drinking the Kool=Aide" is in reference to Jim Jones and his cult in Guyana (sp?) called Jonestown. They committed mass suicide & murder by either forcing or convincing his followers to drink poisoned laced Kool-Aide. In our case, however, Drinking the Kool-Aide refers to once you tried it you are hooked!

"The Devil in the White City"

non fiction

recommend it

My Uncle Oswald by Roald Dahl.

Reading David Copperfield... again. I think its the 6th time.. I love Charles Dickens

I'm a big Chuck Palahniuk fan. I feel like his existential nihilism in Fight Club really relates well to Crossfit. The idea of tearing yourself down to find truth.

Rant is a good one. Just a cool story IMO.

Last read = First Seal by Roy Boehm

Last read = First Seal by Roy Boehm

#113

I always thought the Kool-Aide reference was towards Tom Wolfe's Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.

Glad to see other Coasties getting into CrossFit, but sad not to of heard of the cert at HQ. Anyone interested at the CGA or in New London, we have a group meeting regularly, and I'll hopefully have my Level 1 Cert by the end of the year. If you want to join us, shoot me an email.

PO1 Steve Lamb

"Treacherous Alliance" by Trita Parsi

Just finishing James Fenimore Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales:

The Deerslayer
The Last of the Mohicans
The Pathfinder
The Pioneers
The Prairie

Follows Natty Bumppo, the first "super hero" in American literature, a character with a profound understanding of both men and nature.

I read these in my teens and twenties, but re-reading now in my mid 50's I realize how much of America they captured, both good and bad.

If Hawkeye lived today, he'd CrossFit.

#17... Just recently read The Road as well... GREAT book

The Wisdom of Your Face by Jean Haner
Interesting introduction to Chinese face reading.

Babbit by Sinclair Lewis

Last book I read was.... My Friend Leonard

I am just finishing Life of Pi

I have also read The Kite Runner, was surprised to see so many people reading it. Not sure why, just didn't think it was that popular.

I would highly recommend Life of Pi, makes you look at the bible a little different

fight club the movie got me into palahniuk. i read all his stuff and finished with fight club. choke and rant are great. if you like chuck check out george saunders his stuff is strange and good. also denis johnson's jesus son. cool short stories

To # 89: Guns, Germs, & Steel is amazing. I go to school where he teaches and the other profs hold it at cult status.

Currently reading The End of Faith by Sam Harris.

A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini.

The last GREAT book I read was The Kite Runner by the same author. Brilliant.

"Oh the places you'll go" ---Dr. Seuss

#7, 106 - kite runner was the 2nd last book i read. loved it! very moving.

#36 - wild at heart, read and loved it it when i was a younger lad, not so sure now

#37 - i haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" but my friend who had to read it in university described how easily the wealthy kids rallied behind the message of selfishness being a virtue. i've also had another friend who read the book and tried to explain its 'sound logic' to me. doesn't seem too convincing

last book i read was new moon. I am not gay.(nothing is wrong if you are.) i feel a little gay.

"Into the Wild" Now I want to check out the movie!

Thursday is a well deserved Rest Day. That was a rough three days.
www.crossfitredding.com

I actually re-read Anthony Kiedis' autobiography because I ran out of things to read but now I'm on '1984' just because I've never read it, believe it or don't.

Although I did read an alphabet book to my 1-year-old this afternoon...

Solipsist by Henry Rollins
read it so many times it's held together by a rubber band

Concurrently read:
Europe; A History by Norman Davies
Iceman; My Fighting Life by Chuck Lidell
The Shack by William P. Young

Before those I read Presidents by Carter Smith. It's a great easy read with 3-6 pages on each president including a brief bio and historical timelines.

Just started The Essential Ken Wilber.

Brian T. I got into Palahniuk with a vengence after I read Fight Club (amazing) but I've gone decidedly cool on him from his last three books.

The Leopard, by Guiseppe di Lampedusa

The Last Lecture by Randy Pausch. It was also the last video I saw. As much as I love the "Nasty Girls" and the other awesome CrossFitters out there, he is my hero hands down.

Here's a link to his lecture. Long but definitely worth it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo&feature=related

The last book I read was Lone Survivor. Everyone and anyone should read this book. It gives you a new perspective on everything from life lessons to rules of engagement. I will never slack off during the Murph workout again. I have always and will always have respect for our soldiers and wish them all a safe mission and to get home safe. Thank you for all your hard work, dedication, and for protecting this country.

Book Reading WOD to balance your 3 Legged Stool:
Mine for August:

Spiritual - A Resilient Life by Gordon McDonald, Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller (for the third time). Guy just gave the benediction at the DNC on Monday.

Physical - Crossfit Journal August. Was there any question?

Mental: JUL/AUG issue of Foreign Affairs Journal featuring Condy Rice's "The New American Realism."

Keepin that 3 Legged Stool Balanced...preparing for the 3 Bars of Death WOD...it's gotta be coming soon.

Peace,
Chappy

Last Book: Iliad

My favorite books: Don Quixote by Cervantes, Great Gatsby by Fitzgerald, 1984 or Animal Farm by Orwell, and anything by Hemingway.

Next on my list: Lone Survivor again, Wealth of Nations, Canterbury Tales.

gaucoin,

i'm in complete agreement with that take on palahniuk.

Go Coast Guard! Its hella cool to see that others in my branch of service are doing the same training I am 3000 miles away with out any of us knowing each other....Especially since we are such a small service....

How can I find a set of HSPU assist bands like the ones used in the video.

ultramarathon man by dean karnazes. I am currently reading the wisdom of crowds by james surowiecki.

#113 et al,
As best I recall (a shaky thing some days) the Kool-Ade reference goes back a few years to comments that compared CrossFit to a fitness cult. Several CrossFitters, being the way we are, jumped on this comparison and more-or-less said "if CrossFit is a cult, then I'm drinking the Kool-Ade", in a reference to the aforementioned Jim Jones cult. (As an aside, I assume that Gym Jones is so named for the same reason.) Since then it has appeared in numerous posts and on several t-shirts. In short, any all-or-nothing, die-hard CrossFitter is "drinking the Kool-Ade".

Regards,
Doug

last book i finished was "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Currently reading "The Making of George Washington" and "The Ultimate Zombie Survival Guide".... gotta have variety.

I'm excited about this assignment. I love talking books.

Started reading all the classics I somehow missed lin school ike David Copperfield, Catch-22 (pretty great; kinda like M*A*S*H), The Aenid (I wasn't smart enough) and Grapes of Wrath (awesome). But if you wanna laugh for sure, the book I just finished was David Sedaris' new one. I forgot what it's called. See how smart I am? Something like "What to Do If You're Engulfed in Flames." Very well crafted. Real worth it.

#65 Tom Boston - you can do Ulysses. Just start it, get in a groove and it's not so bad.

# 65 dfb - Atlas is an all-time favorite of mine. Good libertarianism in that book.

#67 bhub - is that Traffic book worth reading?

#99 Robin - I've got 2 or 3 other books similar to Freakonomics but not quite as good. If you e-mail me I'll try to find them for you.

I just finished "Gut Feelings: The Intelligence of the Unconscious" by Gerd Gigerenzer. The book is about how evolved heuristic "rules of thumb" shape our decision making processes. I recommend it.

I am currently reading "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion" by David Hume.

The Last Lecture....

Randy Pausch

Great read. It will only take an afternon

for those with kids and have ever had to suffer through a ppt:
http://home.nyc.rr.com/dradosh/ppaol4.html

Llama, Llama,Red Pajama...for my 2yo boy.
End War -Tom Clancy...for me.

You know there's a giant thread on Books in the forums already, right? :D

Been losing my motivation to work out lately and it's killing me emotionally but physically I just don't feel like doing stuff. I feel like a fat slob when I don't spend at least 20 minutes a day sweating and catching my breath after I do something strenuous.

Does this ever happen to anyone else? If it does and you have good tips to overcome it, email me please. Fueledbyhype@hotmail.com

Appreciated if anyone does.

I found this on the Radiohead website:

http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/

"Project Gutenberg" allows you to download text documents of classic literature for free onto your iPhone, PDA, PC, etc. It is what I am using to read "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion" by David Hume.

Enjoy.

the black swan which i heard about on this blog. about the same time i finished naked by david sedaris. gotta get his new book. that is one funny guy.

don't have much time for reading though with all my watching of the deadliest catch. for some reason i have to know the crab count between the northwestern and the cornelia marie. even if it was 3 seasons ago. pathetic.

shana a

my son read the golden compass and i took him to see the movie. very cool.

"Book of the Dead" Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child

Freakonomics by Levitt and Dubner -- a must read.

The End of Faith, by Sam Harris

Just finished Choke.

Looking to start Shibumi

ICEMAN by Chuck Liddell. The dude is a badass! Also, I would like to thank God for the rest day.

"An Army at Dawn" by Rick Atkinson

Been doing two WODs a day so this rest day is much needed. Love the video. Going to use that band set up so our clients can get the confidence to do a handstand push-up.

The last book I read was In Defense of Food by Micheal Pollan.

Great follow up read to his previous work, The Omnivore's Dilema.

#157 Murlin,

If you enjoyed Gut Feelings, try out "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell. Great read on gut instinct again. He also wrote Tipping Point, another worthy read.

#36 Wild at Heart is a great book--I've read it twice.
Last book I read was "Epic" by the same author, John Eldredge.

"The Disinformation Book of Lists" by Russ Kick

Actually the kool aid reference does come from the Jim Jones cult. But drinking the kool aid is a negative connotation refering to the fact that if you are brain washed by the "globo gym" types into thinking you need to do chest this day, back that day, etc. then you are drinking the kool aid. Thus it is why gym jones has shirts with the kool aid logo with the big circle and slash through it around it. In other words.. dont drink the kool aid.. go find out for yourself.

#173 Chappy,

The thing on the back cover (I forget what it is called) said Gigerenzer's research was a major source for "Blink." So, I probably will read that sometime too, but right now I need a change of pace; I need a new topic.

Thanks for the heads up though!

"The Slight Edge" by Jeff Olson. A Crossfit must read. The author teaches that it is the small things done repeatly over time that makes the difference. The Big Mac will not kill you, tomorrow, but a big mac a day every day will at some point. Likewise, a burpee today will not get you into shape, but burpees compounded over time lead to the slight edge with your health. Good stuff.

Last book

"Papillion" by Henri Charriere

it's a crossfit style struggle if I ever read one.

Also making my way through "Starting Strength 2nd Edition."

#37

I'm still working on Atlas Shrugged!
great book so far, i cant wait to finish it

"I hope they serve beer in hell" by Tucker Max
Non stop laughs the whole book.

"Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi

"Reinventing Collapse" by Dmitry Orlov

Last Book: Ghost Rider: Travels on a Healing Road, by Neil Peart (Drummer for the rock band, Rush).

Favorite Book: The Man Who Listens to Horses, by Monty Roberts.

Agreed: Kite Runner was excellent.

Favorite Classic: Don Quixote, by Miguel de Cervantes

Just starting to read: Revolutionary Road, by Richard Yates (1961)

"Godless" by Anne Coulter, and in the middle of reading "Enter the Zone", by Barry Sears PHD, and "Religion of peace? why Christianity is and Islam isn't." by Robert Spencer.

The Tucker Max book is a great read. Best read on a Sunday morning after a long weekend in Vegas at around Bloody Mary number 6.

i'm working on ' while you are engulfed in flames ' by david sedaris- a collection of essays that are funny and acerbic- love all of his stuff and his pieces on 'this american life' on npr.

GIRLS.. if you want to laugh your ass off, " are you there vodka, its me chelsea" this is the first book that i read and could not stop laughing. she has a hilarious description of the first time she saw a guy's..well, you know.

#156
Traffic is cool, but it reads like a long magazine article. I am obsessed with traffic (having lived all over I feel that it is regionally distinct). Vanderbilt doesn't appear to be an engineer or an authority on the subject, and he asks interesting questions that I'm not sure he ever fully answers.
It is worth if for the info he has on attention to the road and how the many distractions are way more affecting than we think.

the Shack - challenges what your perception of God may be.

could someone enlighten me on the burpee challenge. is it one burpee per day for a certain amount of days or months?

thanks,

marc

Strong enough? by Rip, Two Wars by Nathan Self, and Warrior Elite by Couch

currently working on:
Eckart Tolle 'The Power of Now'
Collin Tipping 'Radical Forgiveness'
Dr. Wayne Dyer 'The Power of Intention'
Fast Food Nation
Queen Noor 'Leap of Faith' - the American wife of the deceased King Hussein of Jordan.

E Myth Revisited- Great for any affiliate

Mike

Last book was "The Snowfly". I forget the author. Good read for those who enjoy hunting the trout.

Prior to that was "Bowerman and The Men of Oregon". Great book that gives excellent perspective on the talent of track athletes and mid distance runners in particular.

Oh... Good Night Moon and The Big Red Barn are on my every day reading list as well.

Perhaps one of my favorite books of all time is "Gates of Fire" by Stephen Pressfield which I learned about while reading Lone Survivor. Apparently one of Murph's favorite books.

Popular topic today.

Last book was "The Snowfly". I forget the author. Good read for those who enjoy hunting the trout.

Prior to that was "Bowerman and The Men of Oregon". Great book that gives excellent perspective on the talent of track athletes and mid distance runners in particular.

Oh... Good Night Moon and The Big Red Barn are on my every day reading list as well.

Perhaps one of my favorite books of all time is "Gates of Fire" by Stephen Pressfield which I learned about while reading Lone Survivor. Apparently one of Murph's favorite books.

Popular topic today.

Non-fiction: "Between a Rock and a Hard Place" - Ralston -- a surprising well written book by someone who is not an author by training.

Fiction -- "World without End" - Follett -- love the period history novels.

Right now reading Salt: A World History; The Killer Angels; The Nine (a book about the current Supreme Court); and last finished was Starting Strength. Actually rereading and rereading SS--doing Crossfit made me realize how far I am from strong, so I've scaled back WODing to once a week in order to follow Coach Rip's program for a while. Did my first workout today and loved it! Discovered that heavy deadlifts have an effect on me similar to meditation--my world shrinks to about a 5-ft. circle. Awesome for getting out of my head, something that can't ever happen too much... :)

Last book was "The Snowfly". I forget the author. Good read for those who enjoy hunting the trout.

Prior to that was "Bowerman and The Men of Oregon". Great book that gives excellent perspective on the talent of track athletes and mid distance runners in particular.

Oh... Good Night Moon and The Big Red Barn are on my every day reading list as well.

Perhaps one of my favorite books of all time is "Gates of Fire" by Stephen Pressfield which I learned about while reading Lone Survivor. Apparently one of Murph's favorite books.

Popular topic today.

Sorry for the duplicate posts. My computer was on the fritz.

Read (as in listened to) Perfect Match by Jodi Picoult

"Blood Meridian" - Cormac McCarthy

"Cicero: the Life and Times of Rome's Greatest Politician" - Anthony Everitt

"In a Sunburned Country" - Bill Bryson

love this topic.

fiction - Chasing Darkness by Robert Crais
and Jack:Secret Histories by F. Paul Wilson

Just started non-fiction Brain Rules by John Medina

Chosen Soldier by Dick Couch and On Combat by Dave Grossman

BOYD The fighter pilot who changed the art of war. by Robert Coram
The biography of the man who designed the plan for the success of the Gulf War. Great insight into the intrigue in the Pentagon. Best quote, "there will come a time in your career when you have to decide whether you want to be somebody, or make a difference."

re-reading "Live From New York" the behind the scenes story of Saturday Night Live

Getting the Greg Everett Oly lift book sometime this week, it should be an awesome read.

Concurrently reading:

Absolute BSD 2ed by Michael Lucas -- Definitive book on using and administering FreeBSD (yum!)

The IDA Pro Book by Chris Eagle -- From one of who I believe is one of the best software reverse engineers in the world (Top 10, AT LEAST), a thorough discussion on using one of the most popular disassemblers for computer and network security research.

The current issue of the Journal of International Affairs published through Columbia University -- Can't do without some deep analysis of global issues of today.

I have missed a couple of wods and am looking forward to doing wed wod.It may kick my @#% but I will get through it.Kool aid please!

Children of the Mind : Orson Scott Card

Awesome book. I like the entire Ender series. Great story line and it really keeps you involved.

Right now I'm reading No True Glory. It's about the Battle of Fallujah. Really good read so far. I highly recommend it.

just finished Wayne Dyer's Change your thoughts-change your life - his interpretation of the Tao Te Ching and also currently sifting slowly through A drink with Shane MacGowan - Pogues frontman.

Cool band assisted handstand push ups.

Fountainhead - Rand (Audio)
Into Thin Air – Krakauer (Audio)
Starting Strength – Rip and Kilgore
How to Stop Worrying and Start Living – Carnegie

Thanks!

WITH THE OLD BREED
E.B.SLEDGE

It's about the battles for Pellelieu and Okinawa. It will open your eyes about how tough Grandpa is.

Currently, "The Slight Edge", by Greg Olson.

Currently reading
Dune by Frank Herbert
Protein Power Lifeplan Eades anmd Eades
Was also half through Paleo Diet-but my Mum borrored it!

Boots on the Ground by Dusk: My Tribute to Pat Tillman

Most inspirational book ive ever read about a true hero!

where water comes together with other water: by Raymond Carver

From Ghengis #82:

> what a useless sesame street video. that could
> have been cut down to a 5-second equipment
> demonstration.

> the reason why his group was unresponsive was
> because he was taking 15 minutes to say what
> could have been demonstrated in 1.

Well, then ask for your money back. Try providing some constructive criticism in the future.

From Marc #189:

> could someone enlighten me on the burpee
> challenge. is it one burpee per day for a
> certain amount of days or months?

Yes. Go to Google and type in "Burpee Challenge." Everything you need to know is contained in the first page of results.

The book I am reading right now:

Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson

"The Brothers Karamazov" - Fyodor Dostoevsky

I'm surprised at the amount of excellent literature that other CrossFitters are reading.

Stronger, Smarter, Better-Read and Faster!

Tuesdays with Morrie...

Such an amazing book about life! If you haven't read it, I suggest that you pick it up and do so. Everyone can learn something from this book!

I'm just finishing the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series by Tad Williams.

I'm liking this thread cause it is reminding me of books that are on my reading list and new ones that should be added.

Also, there is always time to read Dr. Seuss. My favorite is Fox in Sox. What's yours? :)

-TripMN

Oops - I listed Lone Survivor (post #51) as the last fiction book I read - obviously that's NON-fiction. (Jet lag and lack of sleep hitting four countries in one week for work contributes to lack of brain function...)

If books-on-tape are included, I also just listened to one of David Sedaris' books about his family -- hilarious stuff, especially when he reads it himself. Just warn the person next to you on the plane that you're listening to a comedy, and are not simply prone to random fits of laughter!

I notice that many of the Atlas Shrugged readers are in the 18/19 or so age range. That's when I read it and it seems to be the age when most people discover it. It's awesome stuff, but fiction. I've seen what it can do to people who take it too much to heart.

I liked "The Brothers Karamazov" but prefer "Crime and Punishment"

Currently reading "Great Expectations"

Currently reading-

"One Month to Live: 30 Days to a No Regrets Life"
you can probably take an educated guess on what it's about. It's an okay read.. Not as intriguing as I had hoped.

Man o man am I in need of this rest day.. Last three days were painful, yet fun too.

Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon
Blindness by Jose Saramago

(Considered the two best books since WW2)

"What I Talk About When I Talk About Running" by Haruki Murakami

A great short memoir by one of my favorite author on his thoughts before running the 2005 NYC Marathon. A great, great read for the (undiscovered) runner in everyone :)

"Freakonomics" by Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt.

Halfway through The "Paleo Diet" by Loren Cordain

"One Bullet Away" by Nate Fick

It is an autobiographical story of a marine corps officer baptized by 9-11 Very well written. Read this and Black Hawk Down and you WILL want to joint the military to kill terrorists, I did.

I like to think that I am pretty well read so i have a couple comments here.

"Life of Pi" by Yann Martel- forgot who was reading that but completely amazing modern literature.

"Great Gatsby" -single greatest book ever

"I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" -hilarious. I have been called a mysogynist for reading this but im sorry its too funny.

Currently reading Julius Caesar.

Last read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley- read that in about 3 hours it was so good. Perfect tan after finishing that too. By tan I mean sunburn

currently reading Crime and Punishment by Dostoyevsky, Leaving The American Sector by Jeff Thompson, and The God Dellusion by Dawkins. I'm by no means a "reader", just trying to exercise my brain as much as crossfit does for the body.

Ultra Marathon Man by Dean Karnazes is still my favorite and I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone!

GHOST WARS

"How to Read a Book" by Mortimer J. Ladimore

It is required reading for anyone who wants to take their reading comprehension beyond the high school level.

The Four Hour Work Week
Good Calories Bad Calories
Science and Practice Of Strength Training

Under the Banner of Heaven by John Krakauer... if you want to be shocked and devastated by the atrocities of humanity that still go unpunished in the US, you should read this book. It is a very well reasearched look into the secretive lives of many polygamous American religious sects, and the power that religion has over some, even driving them to commit murder. A must-read.

Last few books...

Field of Dishonor (Honor Harrington Series)
World War Z "The Oral History of the Zombie Wars."

ran 4.5 miles - 35:52

"Lord Grizzly" by Frederick Manfred

The ultimate survival story

"THE LAST LECTURE" AND "THE LONE SURVIVOR"

GREENVILLE SC

Hmm, last book was a wee while back.

Currently reading "Protein Power Lifeplan"...would certainly recommend.

Viking - You are incorrect. That is not why Gym Jones has the kool-aid with the circle-line through it. But I ain't going there.

How much does reading case law (some of which is as long as a book) count?

I think the most recent read was "Blink"? Nah, I read something more recently, but I'm on the road (Alaska) and not in front of my bookshelf to check. I was going to pick something up for the 24 hours of flying back to the East Coast tomorrow, but just too tired and too much work to do, right now.

On my list to read - Lone Survivor (although I was In Country when that happened, so I kind of know the story already).

Oh, wait, I read "An Innocent Man" by John Grisham (non-fiction) about three men who were wrongly convicted and sentenced to death for a murder they did not commit. That wasn't too long ago. I recommend "The Blind Side" and "The Know It All" for short airline flights. Light, fluffy reads, like popcorn.

Love "Fountainhead" and I read it as an adult. It remains for me a great ideal to strive for. Faithfulness to a principle. Also read Grisham's "The Broker" - not his best stuff by any stretch. In fact, not that great at all, really.

Time for bed.

Currently reading "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" by Jared Diamond.

It's the follow-up to Guns, Germs, & Steel, which a couple people mentioned above. Mr. Diamond's books are among the most informative & intelligent pieces of work I have read.

Reading was part of my New Year's Resolution, as I am in grad school, I missed the "free time reading" that I used to do. I decided that I would read one non-school related book per month. I finished my August book early (Brave New World/Brave New World Revisited by Aldous Huxley-fun fact: Orwell was one of his students). I started my September book a little early (Oil! by Upton Sinclair-nothing like, There Will Be Blood).

small cap stock investing

"The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer

I have read this book at least 6 times and read it every 8-10 months it is that good.

Last books I had to read:
Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars
Thucydides Peloponnesian War
Xenophon Anabasis
They were all good, the Anabasis didn't blow me away like I thought it was going to.

Lost book I chose to read:

Soldier's Heart by Elizabeth D. Samet

Very good book about a Woman who teaches English at West Point. My Dad used to teach English at West Point so It's close to home for me. Her point it that English can be a powerful tool for building character and morale courage in Cadets but you have to be careful you don't let an overly romanticized notion of what War is.

Favorite Book: DUNE

I'm starting to think everyone lies about their posts...sub 9 minute times yesterday WOD...War and Peace...Crime and Punishment...It's just hard to swallow that grown adults not in school would read that stuff...for fun. I'm not accusing, I guess I'm congratulating you, your better men and women than me.

Why are you guys reading the Hagakure now? Ghost Dog came out like six years ago. A good code but taken with a grain of salt as Tsunetomo who wrote it never saw a war and wasn't really a hardcore Samurai. Best passage and most appropriate quote for a Crossfitter:

"There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. But doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you still get the same soaking. This understanding extends to everything."
Yamamoto Tsunetomo, The Hagakure

A Samurai's way of saying 3,2,1 go!

If you liked the Hagakure you might like "Autumn Lightning" by Dave Lowry or "Angry White Pajamas" by Robert Twigger. Both are about martial arts training and Japanese Martial Culture. Check them out.

If you haven't figured out I'm kinda a medieval/classical warfare/Samurai buff.

God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, by Christopher Hitchens

I am about to start Starting Strength.

Re: #5 Bingo... how about The Very Hungry Caterpillar?

last books finished; La Reina del Sur, Reverte
y El Alquimista,Coelho.
still reading ,Starting Strength and Paleo Diet,great info in both.

Interpreting The Truth by Bill Countryman

Awaiting from Amazon, Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage, by Alfred Lansing.

Currently studying Starting Strength, by Mark Rippetoe.

Considering revisiting Stephen R. Donaldson's Gap series. Might skip that and buy Arthur C. Clarke's compendium of short stories, finally. Hmm, now that I think about it, I am ordering it today.

Homer's Iliad.
That's where the study of leadership should begin.

The book I read daily - The King James AV1611 Bible

No other book compares

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team - Patrick M. Lencioni

Currently reading: The Horse God Built: The Untold Story of Secretariat, the World's Greatest Racehorse - Lawrence Scanlan

"Why We Need Higher Taxes, More Government Action and Expert Help to Head Off the Dangers of Global Warming", by G. Glassman

;)

The Tale of Genji, by Murasaki Shikibu. Tenth Century Japan. Do not look for Samurai in this one. As long as it is a two-volume 1,600 pages feat, I believe I might engage in something shorter when done. Any suggestions?

'Steppenwolf' by Herman Hesse

'The Giving Tree' by Shel Silverstein

Read it to my 2 girls last night before bed, right now, it means more to me than them, but that will change.

Last book I read was The Dip by Seth Godin.

Currently reading Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.

Just Finished: Liberal Fascism
#88 (Jeff_IN) or anybody else - if you wanted to explore more of what happens from time to time through "well intentioned" policies in the US, this book is fantastic.

Reading Now: Freedomnomics. Loved Freakonomics and this book was advertised as a "counter argument" to Freakonomics. So far, OK, but not as exciting a read - it's a traditional economists' view of many of Freakonomics' theories.

Recently Finished: The Crisis of Islam by Bernard Lewis. Really interesting Academic viewpoint on why the "West" is engaged in a Holy War (whether we think it or not) with Islamic Extremists. I and about a dozen of my co-workers have all read it.

I'm also impressed with the physical fitness of this group and the reading lists. I'm going to look into Atlas Shrugged and I really need to read Brave New World.

See you on the Blog tomorrow.

PS - If anybody knows those dudes who make the "Ass Whooping" series videos, they need to make more. They're freakin' hilarious - I laughed my butt off yesterday before doing the WOD.

Cheers.

Ben

Liberal Fascism (Goldberg), The Forgotten Man (Shlaes), Good Calories Bad Calories (Taubes), Happiness is a Serious Problem (Prager), Lone Survivor (Luttrell).

"The Ribbon Creek Indident: The Marine Corps in Crisis"
Mandatory reading for the Series Officer's Course down here in Parris Island. It was a pretty good book; I am glad I read it.

Spy Handler (Memoirs of a KGB Officer)

I recently tried to read "The Men Who Stare at Goats", but couldn't make it but a quarter way through the book. One of the few books I've quit on.

Before that, I read "Richistan" on the beach and thougth it was a terrific read. Not really -pro or anti-capitalist, just a look into the lives of the superrich. Very well written and a quick read.

Before that, and also on the beach, I read "Lone Survivor." There's been enough said about that book on here . One of the best.

Now, I'm currently reading Vincent Bugliosi's "Outrage".

Just finished re-reading "A Patch of Blue" by Elizabeth Kata.

I think those bands for spotting the HSPU are awesome! I got my wife Angie into CrossFit about a month ago and she's hooked. I would like to get my hands on some of those bands but I'm not sure exactly which ones I should get can someone out there help me out? You can just answer me on here or email me at eric.dibartolomeo@ramstein.af.mil

Thanks!

"Why i am not a christian" by the great historian/mathemetician/philosopher Bertrand Russell
just started...
"GREAT AMERICAN HYPOCRITES" by Glenn Greenwald

...never new what a gigantic coward John Wayne really was...hmmm

Also, recently gave a copy of "Liberal Fascism" Jonah Goldberg to a client of mine... she needed paper for the bottom of her birdcage.

"The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker

Looks at how to interpret that "gut feeling" when you are afraid and how to explain your fear.

My next book will be "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales.

The book deals with how to survive a critical incident and how to cope with the aftermath.

"The Shack" by William P. Young

Just finished:
Einstein's Cosmos (Michio Kaku)
Of Mice and Men (John Steinbeck)

Currently Reading:
One Hundred Years of Solitude (Gabriel Garcia Marquez)

Not sure it counts as reading, but I'm working my way through two textbooks I got myself:
Light and Matter
Understanding Philosophy

I recently alternated between these two:

"Two Space War" by LTC Dave Grossman (USA Ret.)- This is a sci-fi tale (think Master & Commander set in space)salted with all of Grossman's great insights and teachings. Great read for the professional or aspiring warrior
&
"Leadership & Training for the Fight" by MSGT Paul Howe (USA Ret.)- Howe was a member of Delta and has written the best source for leadership and personal motivation, combat or otherwise, that I have ever read.

Currently re-reading "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius (The Penguin Books edition). One of my favorites. I keep it with my scriptures.

Last finished -- "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales. Interesting but overwritten.

Currently reading "Reclaiming History" by Vincent Bugliosi ... 1500 pages on the JFK assassination. Fascinating.

Re. #70 --

"A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn. Mind-blowingly good book. It should be required reading in our public schools."

Yeah, because kids in public school don't get enough revisionist history. Since the book's readily available online, here's a sample from his chapter on WW II:

"It was a war against an enemy of unspeakable evil. Hitler's Germany was extending totalitarianism, racism, militarism, and overt aggressive warfare beyond what an already cynical world had experienced. And yet, did the governments conducting this war-England, the United States, the Soviet Union-represent something significantly different, so that their victory would be a blow to imperialism, racism, totalitarianism, militarism, in the world?"

Last book I finished was 'Book of the Dead' (fiction). Don't really do fiction becuse I think that I could be doing something more constructive and which will teach me something. I'm also not the fastest reader on the planet, so I've got a book on Samurai and 'Recoil' by Andy McNab on the go at the minute. Must pick both up again and get them finished. My wife is an elite reader and keeps on making me read fiction. Perhaps we could do CrossFit Reading: Read a given book for time and then answer ten questions on it. 50 burpee forfit for every wrong answer. Lets start reading.

Better: A Surgeon's Notes on Performance by Atul Gawande

Gawande discusses various issues in medicine and the ways in which the best doctors succeed. There is a wonderful chapter about the increased performance of the Forward Surgical Teams in Iraq.

Theodore Rex by Edmond Morris. Biography of Theodore Roosevelt 1901 to 1909.

Amazing man. The similaries between the guilded age of the 1900s, the rebel insurgency in the Phillipines, torture, including water boarding, invading a sovergn country (in this case Panama) and today's gilded age and invasion of Iraq is trenchant! Alot to learn from Teddy.

It's no wonder he's on Mount Rushmore.

i hope they serve beer in hell
by tucker max

freakin hilarious

Recently I reread Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. Great book. Always makes me paranoid though! lol

48 laws of power by robert greene

I am just finishing "Warrior Elite"

Recently finished Into Thin Air by John Krauker and just started Lone Survivor.

"Dune" by Frank Herbert and "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. Both were fascinating reads in their own way.

Highly recommended.

Many posts for Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged, The Anthem, The Fountainhead). I suggest you read Rand's "Philosophy, Who Needs It" as well. It's a NF discussion of the various philosophers, their good points and bad.
I agree with some of the posts -- be a bit careful with Rand's ideology. I've seen a few folks get a bit screwed up in the head by absorbing her too much.

These are interesting, can't wait to read more of these.

Just finished 'captains of crush grippers' by strossen - extremely useful in pursuit of gripper improvement.

I'm somewhere between 25% and 75% complete with 'Boyd' which author I cannot remember, 'The anti inflammation zone' by Sears, 'The paleo diet for athletes' by cordain, 'who killed healthcare' by Herzlinger, and 'Redefining Healthcare' by Porter. Seems like I'm going to finish Sears' book first. Next, "GCBC". Paul

Finished Out of the silent planet
Reading Perelandra and
God in the Dock
all three by CS Lewis

TomC #213

thank you sir, I had found it after I put some time into looking fr it.

waist deep in "To Dare & To Conquer" by Derek Leebaert. It's a survey of Special Operations from Biblical times till now. I love it when smart mean warriors do their thing. Meeting the author in a week...

I've read a majority of the same books that the other posters have listed. What a fun community.

My alltime favorites:
"A Confederacy of Dunces" by John Kennedy Toole. The funniest thing ever written. Wet your pants laughing. A splendid ride.

"The Fermata" by Nicholson Bakker. Great smut, huge laughs.

"Once an Eagle" by Anton Myrer. Heroic. I am irrevocably in love with Sam Damon.

and, of course, the book that pushed me off the rails and started my life's journey: "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.

No rest for the wicked!

Mini Murph
800m run
100 Pull-ups (Grav 15 kg)
100 Push-ups
100 Squats
800m run

23:40

Push-ups are killing me as always.

Sträck på dig!

The last book I read was Rant, by Chuck Palahniuk. That's the guy who wrote Fight Club. weird.

Glad to see a lot of Palahniuk

Currently reading: Island at the Center of the World - It's the story of New Netherlands before the British took it over and pretty much erased all of its history.

Just finished: Inside the Whale - it's a collection of essays by George Orwell. It's funny how even in the 1930's in England, we still seem to be facing the same political, economic and social problems today

"Highway to Hell!" Dispatches from a mercenary in Iraq.

One Bullet Away - Nate Fick
Still Broken - AJ Rossmiller

Both harp on the concept of bureaucracy that pervades our institutions and how it's really effing things up, specifically in Iraq.

If you've seen the mini series on HBO/read the book called GENERATION KILL, and of course liked it (I would assume crossfitters would go gaga over Rudy Reyes, he plays himself) then check out Fick's book.

Also, anything that David Simon touches turns solid gold. I'm reading his book Homicide right now, and he of course wrote GENERATION KILL as well as the greatest show to broadcast on television--THE WIRE. Anyone else drinking the Simon Kool-aid?

Douglas Adams and "So long and thanks for all the fish". For those of you who don't know Douglas Adams, he is a must read. LOL funny. I've read all his books at least 5 times each.

Before that "Functional Training for Sports" by Michael Boyle. Good read for newbies. Definately gives a good explanation of progression. Way too many people jump right into the "advanced" exercises without any basic fundamentals. Not as technical as Starting Strength so probably better starting book for those without much anatomy background.

Currently Starting Strength V2. Great read, very informative and a "must read" for anyone doing barbell training. Rip is very funny, but also quite technical when describing anatomy. I like the fact that it is very technical, but some may feel overwhelmed by it if you don't have any anatomy or physiology background.

#37 Rafiki -- Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
What a great classic. I haven't read it in about 15 years or so...i think i'll pull it out. I think i need a good read that doesn't use the word "Barbell".

#89 Nick

re: "origin of Species" by Darwin. Please keep in mind that Darwin renounced his evolution theory in his later "wiser" years, and asked God to forgive him for his youthful folly. Guess we all learn the truth eventually.

re: Ron Paul I agree wholeheartedly, just too bad he doesn't have the "stage presence" to get elected. I think he scares other Republicans since he calls their Corporate allegiences to the carpet!

Dresden Files Book Two: Fool Moon

. . . don't judge me

I'd also like to give another vote for Guns, Germs & Steel. Really well written and covers a lot of ground.

I am midway through "McCarthy's Bar" by Pete McCarthy. If you have never laughed out loud while reading a book, this one will do it. I would also recommend it for any who has travelled or wants to travel in Ireland.

Last one I finished was 'The Black Swan' by Nassim Nicholas Taleb.
I started 'Into the Wild' by John Krakauer a while ago, but never really committed to reading it. I guess now I will!

I think those bands for spotting the HSPU are awesome! I got my wife Angie into CrossFit about a month ago and she's hooked. I would like to get my hands on some of those bands but I'm not sure exactly which ones I should get can someone out there help me out? You can just answer me on here or email me at eric.dibartolomeo@ramstein.af.mil

Thanks!

#266: Yes. Zinn, pressed by Dennis Prager, admitted he did not think we should have fought World War 2, because wars kill innocent people, and innocent people should never be killed.

This would be an admirably consistent policy for a Jainist saint, who would--in the interests of perfect pacifism--starve himself to death.

I wish Zinn would emulate their fine example. It would do the world a lot more good than will his continued writing and proselytizing in the cause of cultural suicide.

If decency exists, it has to be defended. And defense requires violence. If decency does not exist, then we can in that event do no wrong, because such a thing does not exist.

This process is called logic. He will necessarilyi have forgone any discussion of that in his book.

Strings, Conformal Fields, and M-Theory by Michio Kaku
Starting Stength 2nd edition by Rippetoe and Kilgore

Andreas, #30

I went to high school with James Fennimore Cooper. No kidding. He's the son of the son of (x many generations) the author.

Jim Cooper was (even in his teenage years) one whalloping he11 of a man, and I could feel it from the minute I met him. And, that was back before I'd ever read any of the books or even heard of James Fennimore Cooper.

Right now I'm reading:
Motion Mountain http://www.motionmountain.net/
The Open Society and its Enemies, Karl Popper
How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World, Harry Browne
Parasite Rex, Carl Zimmer
Getting Real, 37signals
The Control Book, Peter Masters
Modern Cryptography: Theory and Practice, Wenbo Mao
On Writing Well, William Zinsser

There are others, but I don't recall the titles.

'Build Muscle, lose fat, look great' - Stuart McRobert. The book is awesome, but the choosing of the title was a bit unfortunate.

ooh, but nothing beats Reippeto's 'Starting Strength' in the description of the basic barbell movements ;-).

The last book I read: Requiem for a Dream by Hubert Selby Jr.
Fantastic book and movie. Its message: don't do drugs.

Currently reading: The Idiot by Dostoevsky

I'm pretty impressed with what everyone else is reading. Mental exercise is just as important as physical exercise.

#90 Kat,

Been there. Trust me, it will pay off. Just keep at it. I feel your pain, though.

Ken-
Bingo the witch doctor - SO FUNNY! I'll be laughing about that one all day!
-Amie

Last book I read - "Soldiers of God" - very interesting read. For those that read Kite Runner and Thousand Splendid Suns, another good one is "The Bookseller of Kabul" - same type of story, only it's true. (A good read for anyone headed to that area too.)

Rest days are stretch days for me, get to relax and work on flexibility.

I'm reading "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrnes right now. Pretty interesting.

Last book I read?

The last book I read was "It's Your Ship" by Mike Abarshoff Excellent read for management of people from a NAVY Commander Mike Abarshoff:

The Ten GrassRoots Leadership Principles

The Most Effective Leaders…

Lead by Example. They know they must demonstrate changed attitudes and behaviors first, before expecting their team to change. They ask for input from their teams, especially when making decisions that affect them or their work. They respectively listen, discuss, and commit to decisions during meetings. They proactively “walk the talk.” And they commit to the team and organizational peers by consistently following through. They never forget the effect they have on their people, and are acutely aware of how they are being viewed and perceived by their teams.
Communicate Purpose & Meaning. They help their team members understand - collectively and individually — how their work contributes to the success of the overall mission, as well as understand how that work supports their own personal goals. They work to align work opportunities with team members’ personal and professional goals. They proactively communicate and help to manage changes that affect the organization’s culture and strategic direction. They clarify desired outcomes and set clear expectations for individual and team assignments. They genuinely acknowledge and reinforce the contributions of every team member.
Create a Climate of Trust. They trust their team members and cultivate trust from their team, and understand that without trust, a leader can not create the organizational climate and personal rapport with each team member necessary to achieve sustained, long term organizational excellence. They make themselves available and accessible to each team member and communicate the fact that all ideas and opinions are valued and considered. They stand up and support the team’s decision and action, especially in front of superiors. They understand the importance of leveraging the good will of the team in a positive work environment. They are open to criticism and aren’t afraid to admit when they are wrong. And they encourage the team to speak up and share their opinions when they disagree.
Look for Results, not Salutes. They focus primarily on maximizing the performance and expanding the competencies and knowledge of their people rather than achieving personal recognition or higher status within the organization. They trust their team to make the correct decisions within established guidelines. They make decisions that benefit the team, even if those decisions might be unpopular with others in the organization. They exhibit patience in evaluating the effectiveness of new ideas or approaches. And they give the team credit for its successful efforts and assume personal responsibility when efforts fail.
Take Calculated Risks. They encourage their people to take responsibility in making processes better, and promote thinking about what’s best for the organization. They believe that the reason they are successful is because of the performance and decisions of their people. When there is a better way of doing something, they encourage their teams to take action and make the right decisions without asking permission first. They support decisions made by their teams and are constantly promoting growth and advancement in their peoples’ careers by allowing them to take ownership in the organization.
Go Beyond SOP. They define Standard Operating Procedures as guidelines, not as a rigid rule that must be followed at the expense of achieving excellence. They know that SOPs do not change as rapidly as environmental and competitive factors. They understand the importance of fostering a climate that encourages people to discover more innovative ways to accomplish their mission. They proactively entertain and adopt team suggestions for new ways of doing work. And they encourage and support the team to take responsibility for their own success — to chart new ways of working without excessively seeking approval from senior staff.
Listen Aggressively. They don’t simply listen — they listen intensely and carefully to what their people are telling them about their work experience, as well as short and long term goals. They know that those on the front lines possess a unique perspective on how to improve operations. A key to maintaining high morale and a healthier organization is to provide team members with an authentic voice in how the mission is carried out. They devote attention to each team member and value all ideas and opinions. They seek to understand issues from all points-of-view. They inform team members if there is a problem with their performance. And they seek clarification and additional information before responding.
Strengthen Others. They focus on expanding the personal growth, skills, knowledge and opportunities of every team member by creating an environment where everyone can flourish. They understand that, as a result, the team is strengthened. They encourage team members to develop individual career goals, and provide opportunities for the development of new skills. They help the team see strengths and talents
Generate Unity. They work relentlessly to help their team see the benefits of working collaboratively as one, unified unit. They strive to change undesirable behaviors and alter the underlying attitudes that undermine most teams. By committing to treat everyone with dignity and respect, GrassRoots Leaders level the playing field and create an environment that encourages all team members to perform at their highest level. They value and leverage team member differences to make the team collectively stronger. Everyone on the team is held to the same performance standards and expectations are clearly communicated. They actively encourage team members to seek help from each other.
Cultivate Quality of Life. They actively integrate fun into the work experience and strive to ensure their team has as much fun from 9 to 5 as 5 to 9. They encourage their people to work with the same passion, enthusiasm, and creativity they enjoy in their personal lives, and work to create a climate that makes this possible. They promote a balance between personal and professional interests, and strongly support personal goals and priorities.

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Coach Walker
CrossFit 121 WORKOUT
West Allis WI

Stone Cold-David Baldacci, 3rd one in the "Camel Club" series

Pillars of the Earth, by Ken Follett.
The sequel is due out this October. A historical fiction of the Masonic Lodge intertwined with the story of St. Thomas Beckett, the martyred Archbishop of Canterbury.

I recommend this to everyone.

Last book I read cover to cover was Fast Food Nation. CrossFitters who haven't read it would love it - it's about the evolution of fast food first in the USA and then the world.

On Combat
Grossman/Christensen

Outstanding read. Everything you wanted to know about the body's reaction to high stress conflict (and how to deal with it) but were afraid to ask.

The last book I was read was "When Bad Things Happen To Good People" by Harold Kutshner.

"The Night of the Gun" by NY Times reporter David Carr, about his many years on cocaine. It came out only a few weeks ago and it's something else.

Last one: Brave new world by Aldous Huxley. I had wanted to read it for a long time.. I love philosophy-based books. Although, the ending made NO sense - boo.

Currently working on: A Game of Thrones by GRRM. Re-reading it (and the rest of the series - A Song of Ice and Fire) for the newest book to come out, can't wait!!

I also read Kite Runner recently, as many others seem to have as well. I enjoyed the way the author wrote, he had some good imagery. My only gripe is that it seemed very disjointed and coincidence-prone. Plus IMO, I'm not a fan of books that attempt to make me feel certain things, and throw symbolism in my face. That's just me, though.

Hey All - I am on month 2 of xfit and its awesome. Great approach to functional strength and fitness.

Question: I am about a week behind due to various issues, mostly its hard for me to work out on the weekends when I am usually out of town. So, I have been doubling up workouts during the week - ie doing them in one day back to back.

Any thoughts on doing this and still maintaining maximum results? I have been trying to sleep a bit more to recoup but any thoughts on the subject would be welcome.

Best,

Jon

Last book

"Zen In the Martial Arts" by Joe Hyams. A classic.

But always leafing through "Why Die? The Extraordinary Percy Cerutty Maker of Champions". I doubt many of you in the USA have heard of him. A shame really, he was an absolute legend, and pioneer of looking at athletics and the training required in a different light. He was practicing crossfit related activities over 50 years ago.

Also always reading "The Golfing Machine" by Homer Kelley

I'm reading "Rivarol" by Ernst Junger (trying to translate the German). He gives an interesting account of "the Tacitus of the French Revolution". Also, Harold Acton's "The History of the Bourbons of Naples" is an amazing yet out of print work.

'The Curse of Lono' by HST. The Steadman illustrations are priceless and pyschodelic, as usual, as is the last quarter of the book.

Dropped signed copies of 'The Poison Pen of Aberdeen Prep' in the mail to some fellow Crossfitters, just cuz I can.

"Dreams of Steel" by Glen Cook, in his Black Company Series. I've heard he does a good job capturing the day-to-day life of the military - I'd be curious to hear opinions from anyone in the service whose read any of the series.

"Bad Monkeys" by Matt Ruff. Excellent.

Started "The Last Patriot"

With all this talk of Ayn Rand, I'm gonna have to give it a tumble. ...Not that I need any more libertarian leanings. I'm already a crazy man with my liberal friends.

In the middle of 3 right now(4 if you count reading Coach Walker's entry above). Threw out my backmoving railroad ties, I thought it was going to be a good change of pace workout, oh well, guess I should stick to the program, Rest Day it is.

Here they are, all good reds if you have the time:

Dick Couch's
Chosen Soldier (Making of an Army Special Forces Warrior)
and
Warrior Elite (About BUD/S class 226, Marcus Luttrel's class, came out before Marcus's book)

Other one I put down, too depressing: America Alone (Islamic fundamentalist taking over europe, etc)

Next up:
Back to Dick Couch:
Finishing School and
Down Range

Last book I read was "The Paleo Diet" by Loren Cordain. Currently reading "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Taubes, as well as "Strong Enough?" by Rippetoe.

Oh, and can't forget all the graduate textbooks I'm reading: "Sport Psychology Handbook", "Research Methods in Kinesiology", and something about group counseling.

Happy rest day!

"The Slight Edge" by Olson.
A great read for anybody who wants to stay ahead of his game. It talks about how doing just a little bit of anything every day will bring big results in the long term. Emphasizes how we as a society always expect immediate results, and cry defeat if the results are not there overnight.

'The Shack' (very thought provoking), 'The Last Great Tsar" (slow but interesting) &
The Maryland Medical Protocols for 2008 (booooorrrrrrring)*snore*.

#309 Jon - I have been down this road before which resulted in a serious case of overtraining after that week.

Especially since you are so new to crossfit, it is definitely more adviseable to be more conservative than aggressive in your training practices.

Doubling up WODs everynow and then in OK, but everyday over a week is a little much. There is a reason why the prescribed WOD is only what is written on the site. If 2 WODs was the order of the day, then 2 would be presented.

Coach Glassman has a very carefully constructed methodology to the programming of the workouts presented. Doing more than is prescribed can be a recipe for disaster. 2 headache tablets will get rid of a headache, but is taking 4 a good idea.....?

anyone know where to get bands like that? thanks

Ken C you still watching that show? It's gonna rot your brain, son!!

#17 - I read "The Road" too. I liked it. Definitely left me wanting more!

"Irresistible Revolution" by Shane Claiborne. Life-changing book.

the last book I read was "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield, which is now one of my top favorites.

A question on half-effort weeks. I'm coming up on a period where I need my body to rest a little bit from doing 2 WODs a day for about a month-and-a-half. When I do a half-effort cycle in late September, should I cut the ammount of repetitions in half, or halve the weight used?

Last read, "The Enemy Within" - Michael Savage
Reading, some book by Joel Olsteen, can't recall the title.
Both great books.

#320

Seth you can get the bands from Iron Woody. The sevice was great and so are the bands. You can use them for lots of things.

The last book I read was with my daughter last night called Bouce, Catch and Throw.

#277 - Apolloswabbie - I am trying to finish "Boyd" as well but put it down a few weeks ago. He makes me feel like less of a loose cannon as my rants with my boss pale in comaprison with his tirades. Great book though.

#285 - Hersh
Is that really Rudy Reyes playing himself? I watched episode 5 while at the Blauer Camp in VB, and wondered where they found a guy who had Reyes' physique and mannerisms. "Generation Kill" was a great book. LT Nataniel Fick's spin off "One Bullet Away" was pretty good too.

Good Calories, Bad Calories - I've only got the Epilogue left.

Oh, and 7 Steps to a Pain-Free Life, by Robin McKenzie - was great for the back rehab portion of my deadlifting injury. Most of my reading on the piriformis rehab portion has been online, including YouTube.

Word to the wise - take care of your piriformis, and it'll take care of you. And don't neglect any imbalances, lingering pains, etc... CrossFit doesn't let any stone go unturned, if you know what I mean. It's a good thing, I know - so expose your own weaknesses before the program exposes them for you with an injury.

THe last book I read was "The Automatic Millionaire Homeowner" by David Bach.
Hoping to get my hands on "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" soon.

the shack
(its not about the bball player)
a cool look at the trinity

Currnt Read:
In the Event of My Untimely Demise - Sack

Recent Reads:
The Republic - Plato
Ender's Game - Card

Before that:
1984 - Orwell
The Fountainhead - Rand
Brave New World - Huxley

I suppose anyone analyzing the list would characterize me as a pessimistic elitist who doesn't trust politicians and thinks he might die soon.

I don't think I'm an elitist.

Common Sense, Thomas Paine. Very intense read, considering when it was written. Those guys had nerves of steel.

The Passion of Command, Col. B.P. McCoy.

Looking forward to Krakauer's new one about Pat Tillman but it looks like we won't see it for another year. http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6573003.html

currently:
Now the Hell Will Start by Brendan Koerner
Complications by Atul Gawande

Atonement by Ian McEwan

#226 - Ghost Wars is awesome!

The Road by Cormac McCarthy

Thomas and the Shooting Star

Good to see some coasties on here! Semper Paratus!

The last book I read was Shadow of the Hegemon, one of the Ender's Game series books. I would recommend reading the series to any fan of scifi

Greg 70

John 266

Barry 292

Zinn: "It was a war against an enemy of unspeakable evil. Hitler's Germany was extending totalitarianism, racism, militarism, and overt aggressive warfare beyond what an already cynical world had experienced. And yet, did the governments conducting this war-England, the United States, the Soviet Union-represent something significantly different, so that their victory would be a blow to imperialism, racism, totalitarianism, militarism, in the world?"

I couldn’t help noticing that there’s a question mark at the end of the passage quoted from Zinn. Are you upset with the fact that he had the disloyalty (horror) to ask the question? As the passage continues: “These questions deserve thought. At the time of World War II, the atmosphere was too dense with war fervor to permit them to be aired.” Fervor may have its place (within limits) during wartime, but after, it is responsible to take stock and examine what the war really meant abroad and at home, to get beyond the John Wayne propaganda.

Admittedly, Zinn is not a man who proceeds by unassailable logic. His technique and purpose is to present information from the perspectives of people who have not (had not) traditionally (written 1980) had their voices heard in the public arena. He stretches, his ambition o’rleaps itself in places, but in others, it lands solidly in the saddle.

I really cannot understand why folks who are so (healthily) skeptical of such consensus issues as AGM and the thesis that the US foreign policy in the Middle East is largely driven by oil, won’t turn that skepticism toward other issues, such as the unalloyed "decency" of America’s foreign policy.

An Hour before Daylight, Memoirs of a Rural Boyhood by Jimmy Carter. Lovely, and highly recommended. Am now tucking into To Kill a Mockingbird. It's been a long time and deserves a re-read.

Technically, however, I suppose the last book I read was the bedtime story of Oliver Donnington Remmington Sneep [who couldn't and didn't and would not sleep].

"We Were Soldiers Once...And Young" This book is an amazing account of the Ia Drang battle in Vietnam (1st CAV). The movie with Mel Gibson (" We Were Soldiers") was based on this book.

Reading "Mastering the Zone"...

Great day for a rest day! It's my birthday so I can splurge a little and eat some of the crap people have sent me in care packages.

Last few books I've read:
Catch-22
Hollywood Station- Joseph Wambaugh (Funny and spot on Police Procedural)
From Baghdad with Love (US Marine brings puppy home from Iraq. Not my usual fare but got it as a gift and found it a quick read)

Back to the grind tomorrow... can't wait for this deployment to be over.

Funny how everyone wants to share what they are reading and funny how everyone's a critic...Can't wait to watch mine get lost in the shuffle...

I am on a bit of a theme...last read Electric Koolaide Acid Test by Tom Wolfe...Currently reading One Flew Over The Cookoo's Nest by Ken Kesey...both I find very entertaining.

P.S. Love all the like minds in this group...The Gunslinger series by Stephen King is a favorite...Those of you with the military kick otta check out Flying Through Midnight by John T. Halliday...PEACE, B

"Results That Last" by Quint Studer

"Where the Suckers Moon: The Life and Death of an Advertising Campaign" by Randall Rothenberg

"Zone Perfect Meals in Minutes" by Barry Sears

THE LAST AMERICAN MAN by Elizabeth Gilbert. Amazing. Anyone else read this yet?

#346:

I almost skipped over your post it was so uniteresting. jk

Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield... great book about the battle of Thermopylae and the Spartan culture

Lone Survivor

Currently working on One Bullet Away. Really great book if you enjoy reading about the comical/cynical side of the military. Still very motivating and inspiring at the same time... especially for a guy trying to become a SEAL.

#260 AMERISWEDE
My buddy just got done with
"Why i am not a christian" by the great historian/mathemetician/philosopher Bertrand Russell
How did you like it?

Guns, Germs, and Steel is also a great read. We had to read for my Anthropology class, it was the only thing worth while in an awful class.

Last Read: Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy

Currently Reading: Under The Banner Of Heaven by Jon Krakauer

Rory Mac: I was looking to see if anyone is reading any of Dahl's books. His adult collections are as good as his children's stories! Uncle Oswald is great...have you read any of his other collections? I just finished Switch Bitch by Dahl, as well as Duma Key by Stephen King.

been a while since i posted on main site, do NSC.com WODs..

Devil in a White City - great book too

Currently reading (concurrently):
In Cold Blood - Truman Capote
re-reading Plato's Symposium

Killer Elite- It's dressed up like war porn but it turns out to be a decent piece of journalism, although I don't know how he hasn't angered a lot of people in the Special Ops community for the information he put out to the world. A good read though.

mystic river - dennis lehane

"Holding Hands Holding Hearts" --- This book is about biblical view of christian dating.

Currently trying to read "Captivatiing" by John and Stasi Aldredge.

I can't seem to get myself motivate enough to read lately :(

Just completed the Harry potter series

Lone Survivor

My quads are killing me...

Pillers of the Earth

Awakening~ Anthony DeMello

Also reading FIVE LANGUAGES OF LOVE ~Gary Chapman, and reading it with/to my girl. Interesting book to read. We fall very much in line with all of the do's, and not in the don'ts. Woohoo...I think this one may be a keeper (who head won't spin around after a year or two vomitting with red eyes and fangs and saying all sorts of crazy wacky things...That is why she is EX.)

Great video too!

In8grl~ Great job yesterday, Erin, on the AMRAP OHS! Seriously! I used 135, and like you it was not my legs that got tired, it was my shoulder. Bloody right shoulder is so trashed, I will need a new one soon Doc says. Bursa almost gone, acromion pressing down on what is left of bursa in acromioclavical joint (AC joint) and a tear in supraspinatous. Wrists didn't bother me, but that's cause I was wearing gloves and wrist straps and a belt! (LOL- joking, you all know how I feel about that, just thought I'd stir the pot!hehe)

Hey, did you check this out??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bie_bvn5uw

This was at JEANNIE'S BEACH CROSSFIT last week! She rocks!

~J~
Train Hard and Push Through "IT"!

No Shortcuts to the Top--Ed Viesturs

Great story. Hard work, perserverence, mental strength, family balance...some of the things we strive for as CFers. I don't climb even recreationally, but he gives you the sense you could be pals at a backyard cookout with the kids playing. Despite being the elite of his profession.

Finishing Good Calories Bad Calories (slog of a read for me). Kite Runner next as the wife just finished it, before Paleo Diet.

I love the Krakauer books. Someone mentioned Under the Banner of Heaven. Not his typical book, but very well done, while a bit disturbing.

The last book I read was, The Sacred Balance by David Suzuki........we are all connected man.

Nudge by Thalen and Sunnstein

leather maiden by joe r lansdale

the guy who wrote bubba ho tep strikes again!!

The Bible

"The way of the Peaceful Warrior"
by Dan Millman

a Great read for any athlete or warrior about really living life and and being strong through the mind.

currently ready "On Combat" by Grossman and Christensen all about the Physilogical and Psycholgical effects of Combat and learning to control it

Lone Survivor

Lone Survivor- one of the best books I have read this year.

24m/155/66"

Chelsea as rx'd
all rounds completed with atleast 7 seconds to rest.

Last book I read was "Robert's Ridge", but the next will be "Strong Enough?"

Last 5 books:

Wicked - The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West (great book, actually).
The Book of Mormon
The Bible
Kite Runner
Lone Survivor
Next: America Alone...a good "wake-up" book from what I hear.

Just finished Assorted Essays by Hemmingway. He can make eating lunch an epic tale. Oh, and finished Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter Thompson for the hundreth time. First read that in college. Laughed for the next 3o years. (yeh, I'm that old.)

"Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. Interesting, but a little self-congratulatory.

"Veronica" by Nicholas Christopher.

good to see some HST Mahalo #313. I love his fear and loathing on the campaign trail '72. His running for sheriff in aspen on the freak ticket might have changed a few things.

It is interesting how I really didn't read much until after college and now I can't get my hands on enough literature. It is crazy how one book can lead to another to another. Just seeing all the entries today makes me feel like I will never get to as many as I want. I am thinking Hemingway or Fitzgerald next.

M/30/6'3"/200

#374 Tom: America Alone is a fantastic book. The author does a demographics look at Europe and the US. If you like that, you'll like "Londonistan" as well.

Ben

Just finished "Ghost Wars" by Steve Cohl

Well into "Atlas Shrugged" By Ayn Rand

Last book that I've read was "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie". I was reading to my little niece.

Currently reading: "Theory of Ground Vehicles"

"First In"
by Gary Schroen

A fascinating account of the initial insertion of the CIA post 9/11. Amazing insight into what the media wasn't reporting as well as one of the most detailed accounts of CIA/Special Operations battling Al Queda. It also highlights the political onslaught of D.C. bureaucracy vs. the 'boots on the ground' and the disconnect that is still today a major threat to the ultimate mission of national security.

"The Revolution: A Manifesto" by: Ron Paul

"Truth is treason in an empire of lies"

"Anyone going to his neighbor's home and taking his money at gun point, regardless of all the wonderful, selfless things he promised to do with it, would be promptly arrested as a thief. But for some reason it is considered morally acceptable when the government does that very thing."

"If Americans knew the real story of foreign aid and how it has deformed recipient economies, aided repressive regimes, and even contributed to violent strife, they would oppose it even more strongly than they already do."

“...the soul-killing logic of the welfare state: somebody else is doing it for me. I don’t need to give of myself, since a few scribbles on a tax form fulfill my responsibility toward my fellow man.”

"If our government were scrupulously faithful to the Constitution, we would not need to be especially concerned when a person who represents a philosophy different from our own takes political office. Our Constitution delegates relatively few tasks to the federal government, so it should almost be a matter of indifference who is elected. We wouldn't have to worry that a social policy of which we disapproved would be imposed on our neighborhood at the whim of the new president and his court appointees, or that more of our money would be stolen to fund yet another government boondoggle. And we would also be spared the spectacle of countless American individuals and corporations frantically donating to candidates for political office during election years in order to reserve a place on the federal gravy train if their favorite should win."

"Ours is not a fated existence , for nowhere is our destiny etched in stone. In the final analysis, the last line of defense in support of freedom and the Constitution consists of the people themselves. If the people want to be free, if they want to lift themselves out from underneath a state apparatus that threatens their liberties, squanders their resources on needless wars, destroys the value of their dollar, and spews forth endless propaganda about how indispensable it is and how lost we would all be without it, there is no force that can stop them.

If freedom is what we want, it is ours for the taking. Let the revolution begin."

ATTRIBUTES OF LIFE LONG LEARNERS

COURAGE
Lifelong learners have the courage to overcome the fear of leaving the outer limits of their educational comfort zone and entering into the unknown or the unfamiliar

DESIRE
Lifelong learners have an insatiable, unselfish inner desire to acquire a wide spectrum of knowledge across many disciplines for the mere joy of attaining and sharing the increased knowledge without recognition or rewards.

HUMILITY
Because lifelong learners recognize that intelligence is a gift of God, they do now dwell on or become prideful about their personal intelligence quotient or accomplishments

PATIENCE
Lifelong learners acquire an inordinate degree of patience in their quest for learning. They understand through their diligent search for learning that it takes a great deal of energy and time to find pure knowledge

CURIOSITY
Lifelong learners are curious at heart. As children, our curiosity is instinctive, but our formal education is more confining and systematic

COMMUNICATION
Lifelong learners are teachers at heart, reveling in the communication of learning and knowledge. They find joy, as others are uplifted and strengthened.

Robert D. Hales BYU education week.

Sounds like Coach and other true CrossFitters

I need this rest day bad.

"Good News About Injustice"

#121 Adam
War and Peace is the most rewarding book I ever read. Once you get past the first 3 chapters ;)

I just finished SNUFF by Chuck Palahniuk, and now onto Haunted.

all his works are amazing.

style and subject matter not for everyone

Three weeks into CrossFit has me going to bed a little earlier, but still have some time to read.

The Rescue Season:The Heroic Story of Parajumpers on the Edge of the World
by Bob Drury
Pretty much as good as it sounds.

and

The Forgotten Man:A New History of the Great Depression
by Amity Shlaes
How public policy effects economic recovery in a very readable book. Quite a few of those policies appear to be back in favor. God help us after the election.

Absolutely love that HSPU assist!

Last book:

Clarence Bass's "Chalenge Yourself - Leanness, Fitness & Health at Any Age"

Thumbs up from me.

"Nixon and Mao: The Week That Changed the World" by Margaret MacMillan

Before that, "The Broom of the System" by David Foster Wallace, "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore, and "John Adams" by David McCullough

Last book i read was The Devil in the White City. It's about Chicago during their bid to do the World's Fair and all the goings on surrounding the planning and construction of the fairgrounds. It's a history book, but written in such a way that it sounds like fiction. Awesome book!

#12 allison, anais nin is a phenomenal writer. I've got that same book.

#37rafiki: Atlas Shrugged definitely has some very different and rather provocative ideas. great stuff!!

"Einstein: His Life and Universe" by Walter Isaacson

"Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln" by Doris Kearns Goodwin

I've always found Rand's philosophical texts pretty weak. Especially here critique of other philosophers.

Shadows of the Pomagranate Tree
by Tariq Ali

In the middle of:

Salt: A world History by Mark kurlansky
and
Wanderer by Sterling Hayden

I'm enjoying both.

# 82 Genghis

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I appreciate your insights and wisdom. The video clip only really took 5 minutes and 11 seconds. I hope you can find a way to get that added back to your life some how.

I disagree with your comments for obvious reasons. Not everyone can do HSPU's and so they skip them, this demo is nothing more than a useful tool to help others out there in the CF community in scaling such an exercise with better form, safety,and ROM - rather than doing 50% effort against a wall with bad form.

Ken C - you always have peoples backs in this community and I agree that Genghis should lighten up, he may live a healthier life. I appreciate you looking out for me. Hope your well.

last Book I read - THE ROAD! I loved it and read it in one session. Great read after all those years of academic reference materials.

Have a Great Day CFers!

tucker

Just finished "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield
At the moment reading "The Summons" by John Grisham.

Just finished "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield
At the moment reading "The Summons" by John Grisham.

This morning taught a class on Kettlebells.

Did this workout after w/ 1.5pood:

30 swings + 400m run
30 cln/prs + 400m run
30 front squats + 400m run
30 snatch + 400m run

No time, just morale building w/ Marines.

Just finished "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield
At the moment reading "The Summons" by John Grisham.

This morning taught a class on Kettlebells.

Did this workout after w/ 1.5pood:

30 swings + 400m run
30 cln/prs + 400m run
30 front squats + 400m run
30 snatch + 400m run

No time, just morale building w/ Marines.

My last book, not counting the juvenile fiction I read to my kids, The Devil's Notebook by Anton LeVey

Prole 343,

Zinn doesn't just ask people to treat American foreign policy with skepticism. He evokes a small amount of reasonable skepticism and then tries to use it to justify an unreasonable course of action. He has a ridiculous, clumsily hidden agenda and should probably be treated with even more skepticism than American foreign policy where, at least, the agenda is axiomatic.

RifRaffRob

Dr. Seuss - The Big Brag

We could all learn a LOT from that one.

America's Last Days by Douglas MacKinnon

A State of Disobedience by Tom Kratman

Good Calories Bad Calories

I just finished "The Lost Constitution" by William Martin. It was entertaining but uneventful. Before that was "Good Calories, Bad Calories." That was not entertaining but was totally eye-opening.

Is anybody going to Coach B's Cert this weekend in San Diego? Send me a note to Keith AT Crossfitvirtuosity DOT com

See you there.

Last book was "An Enormous Crime: The definitive account of American POWs in S.E. Asia"
by Bill Hendon and Elizabeth Stewart

Still trying to get 'em back.

The Bible, this morning.
Before that was "Koko Bear's New Potty" by Vicki Lansky (bedtime story--not for me!) =)

Never Surrender - LTG Jerry Boykin

Man, do I feel shallow with the books I read!

Last one I finished was The Judas Strain by James Rollins, and now I'm working on The Last Oracle also by Rollins

Bo Jackson Autobiograph....i dont read much...

#378:

I read America Alone and Londonistan back to back. Steyn's was a terrifying look at what could happen, where Phillip's book was a scary look at what is happening.

Both should be required reading for college students interested in public policy.

Genghis re: HSPU demo

I truly hope you were joking, b/c I have to say it is unusual to hear that kind of unnappreciative criticism for our trainors in CrossFit, especially when you offer nothing constructive at all. I appreciate the video very much, the fact that it was GIVEN to me, and will use it to help my wife and little girls when HSPU comeup again. In fact, just told my wife how good the Gymnastics cert would be!! So why don't you keep the negativism to yourself next time.

I'm working my way through "Enter the Zone". I was eating a purely Vegan diet for about 3 years previous. So as you can guess, trying this out is a huge gear shift. I've only been eating this way (zone diet) for about a week now . My weight has remained fairly constant, but I'm starting to lose that last layer of fat around the mid-section. So that's pretty cool. Does anybody else have any anecdotal evidence that The Zone diet is particularly effective at increasing lean muscle, decreasing fat, and most importantly improving athletic performance? Just looking for more validation...

Currently reading:

Starting Strength (Rippetoe, Kilgore)
The Great Omission (Steve Saint)
Gates of Fire (Stephen Pressfield)

Lots of good choices. (and some that I would consider bad, but that is just me). I'm glad to see that crossfitters do read some great books, not just exercise until muscles squeeze the brains out.

The bible (King James version normally, but unlike some I do not worship the translation - if you are not religious you may not notice that some worship the translation more than the God) is on my daily reading list.

Last book I finished: Human Action Volume 1 by Luwig Von Mises. (Ron Paul fans should know this name)

I keep meaning to pick up a copy of "Roberts Rules or Order"

Kieth M: Beware, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" has some poor advice in it. Some is good, but there are some things that the book claims you should do that you can't actually do. I'm not saying you shouldn't read this book, just beware of that.

I reserve book burnings for anything from "Great illistrated Classics". They look like the real thing, but they are a worthless re-write of a classic. Just a warning for those who haven't encountered them.

Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy

Well considering this is a rest day, I find it appropriate to announce my new training blog.

This weekend marks the 1 yr of training, "1 year can change your life".

Feel free to read my story, complete with before and after pics here:

www.restlater.ca (WFS)

Genghis:

It's not my style to rip into people. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and their right to express it. I would disagree, however, that the video could be compressed much more. The whole point was not to show a competent crossfitter how to use bands to complete HSPU's. Clearly, the point was to show a cf trainer how to show/instruct/help a newbie how to progress into HSPU's. There were a lot of subtleties in the video such as body position, hand placement, weight distribution, etc... It was extremely valuable to me. My wife can't do any HSPU's and if I can't competently assist her, she'll never learn. I don't want her to get hurt. But now I feel competent that with a couple iron woody bands and a pull-up bar I can spot her doing multiple HSPU's.

If Genghis raised your hackles, I wouldn't sweat it. The CF trainers obviously are some bad-ass dudes that know their stuff. I doubt a couple of off-hand criticisms are going to bother any of them. I'm close to getting my first muscle-up. Once I do, I'm going to sign up for my Level I cert. And videos like this get me pumped about it.

Thanks CF!

Pattern Recognition, by William Gibson

#343 Prole, thanks for the great response regarding Zinn. What I remember most from that book was the history of our "war" with Mexico. Food for thought next time you visit San Antonio or El Paso. It will be interesting to read the history of the Iraq invasion 20 years from now.

LEADERSHIP AND TRAINING FOR THE FIGHT: A FEW THOUGHTS ON LEADERSHIP AND TRAINING FROM A FORMER SPECIAL OPERATIONS SOLDIER by MSG Paul R. Howe (Retired). Excellent book.

186 Jessica, I've just finished "While you are engulfed in flames" by David Sedaris too; didn't strike me quite as funny as his previous efforts, but I did have some "laugh out loud" moments. For me, nothing will ever top the adventures of Crumpet the Elf, I'm afraid ;-)

#203 SkyKing, if you can find it, "Reach For the Sky", the story of WW2 fighter ace Douglas Bader, is excellent. Both of his legs were amputated after an air crash, and he was discharged from the RAF, but came back and became one of the greatest heroes of the Battle Of Britain before being shot down and made a POW (eventually being put into Colditz because of repeated escape attempts). My favorite quote of his is:

“Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't do this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind you'll never use crutches or a stick, then have a go at everything. Go to school, join in all the games you can. Go anywhere you want to. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible.”

I think he would have been a CrossFitter!

I decided not to spend any money on new books this summer, so I've been going back and re-reading from the first book various authors whose series I've acquired over the past several years. Been happily digesting "brain candy" such as Suzanne Brockman's romance series about SEALs and Elizabeth Lowell's series about time-travelling Highland warriors, and am now starting at the beginning of Lee Child's Jack Reacher series.

Sprinkled in with that are things that take a bit more thought, such as "The Dord, the Diglot, and an Avocado or Two; the Hidden Lives and Strange Origins of Common and Not-so-common Words" by Anu Garg, and "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg.

"The Crossing" by Cormac McCarthy

Great book - first time reading this author and immediately moved on to "All the Pretty Horses" by the same author. Highly recommend Cormac McCarthy.

#350 - "The Last American Man" is incredible and I think crossfitters would love it. That book would make even most people here feel lazy and unmnotivated compared to Conway.

Re: #382 - I only wish I would have come to know what Ron Paul believed sooner. He's the only politician who seems to have his head on straight. Seems like everyone else is pandering to some special interest group and beholden to those who "pay" for them to get elected. Makes me sick.

On the bright side, I too am generally impressed with the books here.

tucker is a badass, he helped me through a very difficult "fran" at the crossfit games, i had a rather decent time going (5:20) with 3 pullups left when I opened up both palms! needless to say it took me another 1:30 to finish but it wouldn't have happened without tucker pushing me through!

Having trouble with the rack position, for cleans and front squats. The movement is very hard on my wrists. Anyone have any ideas on what to do to increase the flexibility in my wrists?

Off the Deep End. 40 something year old Hodding Carter attempts to make the Olympic swim trials. Hysterical true story.

Finished "The Stranger" by Camus and "Devil in the White City" simultaneously. If i can make one recommendation for a novel for you all out there, especially for the military folks, it would be "Gates of Fire" by Stephen Pressfield. Covers the batle of Thermopylae. Its enough to make the hardiest crossfitter feel like a certain part of the female anatomy.

"I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell" by Tucker Max

Lone Survivor
currently reading The Hunchback of Notre Dame

The Alchemist

#288 Jay M. in SC

I know several Christians who seem to like to believe that Darwin recanted his theory of evolution, but I don't believe it's true. I have had this conversation more than once with friends, and it led me to do a little research. In the end there doesn't seem to be any substantial reason to believe that Darwin changed his mind.

It really doesn't matter if he changed his mind or not. Belief in something doesn't make it true, and non-belief doesn't make it untrue.

As to books, I have been reading through the list of Ian Rankin books. Just finished A Good Hanging and started on Exit Music.

Wow, it makes me feel better to know that I am truly among like minded individuals. Not only have most already read or are reading Gates of Fire, but there are other posts about the other books I have read, including the Last American Man, about one of the most remarkable men of our generation (or any for that matter). Great minds think alike I suppose.

#429 Dixon

I did read a quote by Darwin recanting his position on evolution, but certainly cannot attest to the authenticity of the manuscript. You are exactly right that truth does not hinge on any man's opinion, belief, or theory, absolute truth does exist nonetheless. My only point to Nick was that when reading someones work, it might be helpful to know that their convictions changed as they matured. (of course one could argue they could've changed as dementia set in too, LOL)

"...a cow jumping over the moon"

Currently reading "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. It is an amazing book about the Gulag system in the Soviet Union and about the people who were prisoners in it.

bravo two-zero.....a great true-story

Ash #356

I've read everything I can get my hands on by Roald Dahl. Switch Bitch is the book that got me hooked. I didn't even know about his adult stuff until a few years ago and now I can't get enough. Reading Omnibus right now, which has many of the same short stories in the other books.

Great rest day topic, further proof of the uniqueness of CF. I always have several books going at once, which explains my periods of absence from the boards. I'm reading Richards Price's "Lush Life" and just wrapped up Lawrence Blocks's "Hit and Run." I'm got "Mistakes Were Made(but not by me)" going, an anaylsis of defensive obfuscation. Also I'd recommend Melody Petersen's "Our Daily Meds" a scortching look at the pharmaceutical marketing industry (can you spell Vioxx?). Joseph O'Neil's "Netherland" is the best fiction I've read this year, and for Eric Amberish spy fiction, grab anything by Alan Furst; if you can start with "Night Soldiers." I'm off to Underground CF this evening for my first post-op torture session. I can't wait to see what everyone else is reading (I haven't scrolled down yet). With this crowd, I'm sure there are some hidden jewels I haven't come across. Happy training (and reading) this Labor Day weekend!

Currently reading The First Commandment by Brad Thor. Pallette cleanser. Next up is American Sphinx by Ellis. Recommend his Founding Brothers as well.

For another source of free reading on the net, try DailyLit.com - sends books to you e-mail in installments.

45 min
alef

Charles Taylor: A Secular Age. (A catholic philosopher speculates about the reasons for the increasing secularization in the past 500 years.)

Samuel Beckett: Molloy.

Juergen Habermas and Benedikt XVI: The Dialectics of Secularization.

Absurdistan by Gary Shteyngart. A hilarious account of a fat man's quest to save a fictional former SSR.

#288, Jay M.:

Good to see you on the posts again, buddy. =)
Looks like Dixon (#429) replied about "Origin" before I could (thanks for the back-up, buddy). I agree with him. Religion has a way of scaring people away from some conclusions, which is why Seneca the Younger suggested that rulers find religion "useful." People do irrational, but generally predictable, things when they fear.

However, I digress. In the book, Darwin exposes his idea with a very humble tone, and with a great variety of examples. It was to this that I was pointing, not the validity of his theory.

But since you brought it up, the Theory of Natural Selection is the single most important idea to modern biology and all of it's derivatives, from Anthropology to Zoology and everything in between. Without it, modern biology doesn't exist. Natural Selection is to biology what E=Mc^2 is to physics. I don't see any great controversy over the relationship of matter to energy, so I don't see why there should be any controversy over how species change over time.

I'm not on my death-bed, yet, so I can't rightly say how things will turn out. But I used to be religious in my younger days, and am not in my older, "wiser" days.

I'm glad we see eye-to-eye on Ron Paul, though.

The Orchard Keeper, Cormac McCarthy

and

Restatement Second of Agency

It's amazing to see how many times "Lone Survivor" and "Gates of Fire" made this list. Two truly amazing books on Warriors and their exploits. Speaks volumes to the quality of professionals who devote themselves to Crossfit.

Me personally, just finished "Rainbow 6" by Tom Clany anc have about 10 pages left in Rick Atkinson's "The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944." Amazing read for anyone who wants to know what Soldiering was like before FOBs, Strykers and Abrams tanks, KBR DFACs, shower tents, and 24 hour turn-around laundry service.

Take a long look into the psycho-social mirror, on all levels.

Read "The Confidence Man" by Melville.

The Devil himself would be amused.

FINALLY REST DAY

The Alphabet of Manliness by Maddox

Hilarious and manly.

Great video about the handstand push ups! I'm definitely trying that in order to get more reps and work on my control! Thanks, Tucker!

Last book I read was Facing Terror by Carrie McDonnell about losing her husband as a missionary in Iraq, VERY inspiring! Also, I have recently read "Goodnight Moon" like another person posted. My two year old has it memorized, among others!

Non-Fiction; Just finished "Soldiers of God" by Robert Kaplan. Top notch read on Pakistani and Afghani fighters.

Fiction; Working my way through the John Rain series by Barry Eisler. I have all six books and have read the first four. Other than "Gates of Fire" I have never been very into fiction. The Rain books were recommened on Tony Blauer's website. Eisler is a former spook and I think a Judo black belt. Very slick assassin/spy craft/combatives stories. Check 'em out at barryeisler.com

Mutant Message from Down Under
Thanks.

day behind-HSPU, Pull up, KB swing, sit ups & burpees wod - 15:03

I did a quick check for books that seem to come up frequently. The top 5 are:
Lone Survivor - 20
Good Calories, Bad Calories - 12
Gates of Fire - 10
Starting Strength - 9
The Bible - 6

I tried not to count people who said they "were going to" read it, but I did count people who suggested that they had read it in the past.

Also, a bonus: 11 Chuck Palahniuk references.

'Jihad in Brooklyn' by Samuel Katz. True story of a little known terrorist incident in New York during 1997 when the NYPD Emergency Services Unit made a crisis entry into an apartment in a crowded tenement to stop two Palestinian suicide bombers who were planning detonate their devices that morning in the subway tunnels.
Great info on how the bombers got into the U.S., how the ESU planned the operation and gathered intel etc, along with the heroic actions of the entry operators.

Last books read:

Eastern Approaches Fitzroy Maclean - one of the founders of the UK SAS, former Foreign Office diplomat, explorer within forbidden zones of Stalin's colonies, Conservative politican, friend of Ian Fleming. Fitz was the man who Fleming based James Bond based on.

NHS Plc Allyson Pollock Hospital Consultant of 25 years and Prof of Health Policy - meticulous account of the Tory and Labour destruction of the British Public Health Service, with a little help from US corporations and supermarket managers.

Starting Strength Rippetoe - bought in July, read and kept as constant guide

Last read:

God Is Not Great: How Religion Spoils Everything by Christopher Hitchens. It's a good book, but it is like a sledge hammer after a bit.

Currently working on:
The Great Derangement by Matt Taibbi. This is an absolutely hilarious polemic on three of the great societal diseases afflicting our country: religion, politics and the 911 conspiracy wingnuts. It will make you laugh, cry and just shiver all at the same time.

Next on my list is Lone Survivor. I bought it for my buddy for his birthday and I'm waiting for his slow ass to finish it.

Currently reading Giles Kepels The War for Muslim Minds - fascinating chapter on the neo-con's.

And The Welfare State We're In James Bartholomew, applauded by Milton Friedman. Anecdotal but fascinating account of the failures of the British Welfare State. Partial but accurate in some areas.

'The Crisis of Islam' by Bernard Lewis -- great read.

Invented (to my knowledge) my own workout today:
75 Double-unders
1 min Row
65 Double-unders
2 min Row
55 Double-unders
3 min Row
45 Double-unders
4 min Row
35 Double-unders
5 min Row

Row: 3.6K in 15 mins.
Total time: 21 mins.

#114 Nadia
That's a terrible book suggestion for the ladies! Ha-ha
BTW - I saw the 15 BW OHS video from last summer --> I could identify with the physical struggle as the weeks went by, and the "hell yeah" when you completed it. Impressive.

"Lone Survivor" like so many others. Would like to read "The Warrior Elite: The Forging of Seal Class 228" next.
Would love to know what Coach and Lauren reading.

#455 Ruck
Thanks a helluva lot, Ruck. If this comes up as the WOD, we all know who to blame. (j/k)

God & The New Physics by Paul Davies

Also have Salt: A World History, but haven't started it yet.

TLG.. The Gulag huh? I finished that about a year ago and I still think about it on a daily basis. Currently reading Dharma Bums by the K man.

This is an easy one to scan, but interesting.

Prole, #343 (when I'm posting--the numbers get screwed up as posts hung up in the filter get added back in in the order in which they were posted):

In order to critique a claim, you have to understand the context within which it was made. Some people who opposed our war with Iraq did so on the pragmatic basis that our containment policy seemed to be working. Some on the basis that the end game was not worked.

Some, however, did so on the basis that no war, ever, in the history of warfare meets their criteria of killing only the guilty, and sparing without exception the innocent. Thus when they put objections out there that on the face of them COULD make sense, they are really presenting a dishonest face, behind which lurks a grand chasm of invisible distance between themselves and the mainstream range of consensus opinions.

Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate, and likely Congress, but he is seen as a moderate, because he has been very careful in how he has used language.

Zinn points to our many sins--which I know better than most (did you know we nearly went to war with Britain as well under Polk?)--but what he misses is the reform that the American system has made possible, which is muted or non-existent in most other nations. Britain has no "Freedom of Information" Act, and if you want to compare the levels of political corruption in Mexico versus Washington, we might do well to start with the per capita economic output of both nations, and measure which direction our respective citizenries are flowing.

I will point out as well that Spanish speaking Mexico was itself an Empire, as was the Aztec speaking Empire before it. We were clearly moral equals on that point, if not militarily.

The difference is that we have built a nation that allows people like Zinn to throw rocks over and over, year after year. They don't do that in China or Cuba, and would not be able to do that in Europe if America had not become the most powerful nation in Earths history by force.

The question of changing history, in the case of the past 200 years, as with the past 10 years, is moot. The question is always: what do we do now? And Zinn has no good answers to that basic question. None of the leftists do.

lone survivor will be my next book! youtube has some nice interviews with Luttrell, and the next time I do "Murph" it will be as if I was doing it for the first time.... a true hero!

Last book I read:

"The Bible" by Matt Hunt

#441 Nick:

Just a thought on your "wiser" comment. I think it's totally possible to be "wiser" and "religious". I know you weren't saying that it wasn't, but the problem I see with many religious people (of whom I am one) and non-religious people alike, is that they box themselves into some frame of mind where they stop exploring and stop yearning for more.

Speaking of books, Wicked (the fictional story of the Wicked Witch of the West) has some undertones discussing this very idea. Elphaba (the witch) is agnostic/atheist but always is searching/applying lessons in a new way as she sought to "find" herself. Her sister, who was a staunchly religious person, was the complete opposite, sticking to her religious beliefs, as "boxed" as they were and ended up being dubbed the "witch" of the east.

I think it's totally possible to, for example, believe in evolution, in whatever form one so chooses, and Christianity. There is such a dearth of literature/knowledge/revelation discussing what happened in the beginning and what happened when the creation was over.

We have no idea how long it took, how precisely it happened and the processes that went into place to foster the creation.

And yet, with this lack of info, countless hoards of people say that it's impossible, assuming anything and everything they can simply because the "letter" says it.

"The world is but a canvas to the imagination." - Thoreau.

One thing I do know. I sure as hell am evolving, thanks to CrossFit and thanks to a desire to learn and grow. We all can and should evolve into better, fitter, smarter, more imaginative creatures by the time we leave this earth.

Just my thoughts. Which may change, depending on where I am tomorrow.

"World War Z: an oral history of the Zombie War"

Great read - interesting, and well written.

Also, "God is not Great" - Christopher Hitchens. He's a bit in love with himself and his vocabulary, which distract as much as impress, and he often avoids obvious counterarguments, but is overall solid in his arguments nonetheless. It can serve to help the faithful identify the danger (and sensible limitations) of ideology.

#464 Tom:

Well done, best post of the day so far.

3-2-1 Think!

where do I buy those big rubber bands? I've been looking for them for my gym. . .

Lone Survivor

I'm very impressed with the interesting titles that people are reading. Since many parents have mentioned children's books, I thought I'd mention a book that I recently read, that has so much information about what is important in the raising of children. The book is The Nurture Assumption, subtitled something like Why Peers Matter More Than You Think, and Why Parents Matter Less.

It's a great education in statistical analysis, and I guarantee you will think differently about your choices in the raising of children. Don't be put off too much by the subtitle, the main thrust of the book is how personality develops. Believe me, she doesn't deny that parents matter a lot in bringing kids up.

#467 Todd

"where do I buy those big rubber bands? I've been looking for them for my gym."

Try the 'Garage Gym Store' on the main page bottom left under 'Equipment'

#467 Todd

Check that... main page bottom right

Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell

#343 Prole --

Fair enough, but the problem with Zinn is that nowhere in the book do you have to read more than a page or two to come up with left-wing attacks that verge on the truly paranoid.

For example, on the 1970s:

"[Jimmy] Carter, despite a few gestures toward black people and the poor, despite talk of "human rights" abroad, remained within the historic political boundaries of the American system, protecting corporate wealth and power, maintaining a huge military machine that drained the national wealth, allying the United States with right-wing tyrannies abroad.
"Carter seemed to be the choice of that international group of powerful influence-wielders—the Trilateral Commission."

On the war in Afghanistan:

"It seemed that the United States was reacting to the horrors perpetrated by terrorists against innocent people in New York by killing other innocent people in Afghanistan."

(Well, at least he thinks terrorists caused the 9/11 attacks. Partial credit there.)

Finished as Rx'd in 24 hours - Whew!

Last book? Baby Einstein - What does Ruby See?
(read to the 3yr old at bedtime last night)

# 464, Tom:

I was using the word "wiser" mostly in satire of Jay M's earlier post when he said that Darwin renounced his idea of Natural Selection once he was older and wiser. My point was that age alone does not generate the type of wisdom that Jay was suggesting. If it did, then I should have become MORE religious, rather than renouncing my priesthood.

And I agree with you on the box. I've told my students the koan of the Chicken in the Bottle on numerous occasions, so I call that box a "bottle," but we mean the same thing. I am a seeker of Truth, and will happily go whichever direction that pulls me. I am skeptically open-minded, and my "beliefs" require only evidence.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. =)

Question to those of you who have been doing crossfit for a while.. In addition to the WOD's, do you also lift wieghts??

Thank you!

#476, thedude, what do you mean by "...do you also lift weights?" As in, Hey, I am going to do the WOD and then maybe do some weightlifting after the WOD, or that there isn't enough weightlifting in a WOD?

"On Killing" by Lt. Dave Grossman

Steve

#11 annlee

Thank you so much for posting that essay. What an excellent read! I will recommend to my friends.

My last book read was not so intellectual, but still interesting nonetheless: "Vindicated" by Jose Canseco.

Last three:

"Wild at Heart" by John Eldridge
"The Traveler's Gift" by Andy Andrews
"The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran

Ken C. et al.

Just got back chez CF. I was trying to get some "tincture of tarantula" into a baking recipe after reading "If You Give a Moose a Muffin"!

Hey Charlatan 6...wasn't that Speal with the very low time ystd? FWIW, having met and chatted about pretty much everything under the sun with CF'ers at the Games I have no doubt whatsoever that we are really reading this stuff. Now, if I could only get past those first 30 pages of "Ulysses" (6 attempts thus far)...

BTW, I am an eye surgeon (as is Jay M.).

#477
This is my first week of attempting crossfit.. I am hooked! I love the WOD's, they totally kick my butt.
I am just used to the more "conventional" weight lifting exercises (bench press, curls, etc.). I was just wondering if anyone did these types of things on top of the WOD's...
Thanks for your response.

#110-good call. Must have read it 15 times. Movie was a letdown though...best book I read this summer was In Cold Blood, followed by No Country for Old Men

Lone Survivor and The Slight Edge (3rd time for Slight Edge). I see a few others on here have found The Slight Edge. Awesome insight into doing the small things over and over each day and improving upon what you do a little at a time in order to achieve your goals. Great read!

Currently reading Team of Rivals and Mastery.

7 Habits of Highly Effect People - Stephen Covey

I read a lot of self improvement books so if anyone has a recommendation I'm all ears.

Thanks, have a great day!

Zinnsters,

I agree Zinn adopts a dip-and-skip approach to writing that may be appropriate for a food or travel-writer, but not for a historian. The scope of his book, however, is probably too large for systematic treatment. Like a good food or travel-book, "A People's History" has the capacity to whet the appetite. For some readers this may entice them to actually visit a library and pull some books of the shelf. They may agree or disagree with Zinn's revisions but they will be better informed. By creating controversy and offering an alternative vision he stimulates better understanding.

He asks the question whether there is such a thing as "a" national interest. He asks if there is such a thing as "a" nation. He sees what is called the "nation" as an aggregate of competing and sometimes openly antagnostic interests coalescing around wealth, class, sex, race - many great historians, from Thucydides through Tacitus, Gibbon and Toynbee have shared the same vision, in proportion, and with varying points of emphasis.

His questions are important ones. If he writes with the subtlty of a bag of hammers and is far too light on his footnotes, these are fair criticisms. But it was a watershed. It made many better-researched books possible.

There have been many intellectuals throughout the ages whose major and enduring contribution was essentially destructive. Think of Zinn the an auditor reporting on the weaknesses of a business before the management consultants come in to fix it up. Of course the business owner can shop around for the report she likes, but that may not be very wise.

Fit to Fight by Jason Ferruggia.

For all you MMA fighters on here, do some research on Jason Ferruggia or go to your nearest bookstore and thumb through some of his books. The one i read, "Fit to Fight" is extremely effective, especially when mixed with CF

#482 - thedude - You need to squeeze all that globo gym lifting nonsense out of your head and just follow the WODs to get all of the weightlifting you'll need. Besides, curls are useless and NOT functional movements. Bench press is good for (to quote Coach Rip) pushing on things. Not much else. Learn the Oly and Power lifts. Learn the associated lifts as well: overhead squats, front squats, the presses, etc. And especially the thruster! Dump all the silly lifting stuff you've learned over the years and do CF lifting exclusively. If you don't get enough of that, then read Starting Strength and try Coach Rip's program for awhile.
Welcome to CF!

Warm up
full body stretch ( plus 10 of each pu push ups, dips, situps, squats)
15 min jumprope practice DU

making up 1/2 murph and front squats5x10

1/2 MURPH
50 pull ups (85# assist different grips)
100 push ups
150 squats
1/2 mile

partitioned 5/10/15 for 5 sets
and then 5/5/pu/15 squats/5 push ups for last 5 sets

25:23 (good time)

5 min rest

did 50 of each in sets of 10
GHD situps
hip ext
15 min rest

FRONT SQUATS

5x10

45x10
45x10
50x10
60x10
65x10 (easy on legs, hard on wrists)

(went light to practice form and condition wrists to position ouch!)

Where can I get those bands?

Last book read: Playing for Pizza-John Grisham

Currently reading: I am America! (and You Can Too!) by Steven Colbert...funny stuff.

TODAYS WOD:

20 HSPU on parallettes
50 ring pushups
400 m run

4 Rounds

26:11

That Sucked, but was great! Remember.....

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FUN TO BE FUN!!

Cheers!
~J~
Train Hard and Push Through "IT"!

Last books I've read,
MY Homeowner's Ins Policy (Hurricane season you know )
Paramedic text (well I flipped through the pages)
Into the Zone [Are chicharrones allowed? :)]
My sister's keeper (very good)
Closer to the light(Life after death experiences-gives me hope)

For the Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead) superfans, I’d recommend reading Whittaker Chambers’ 1957 review of “Atlas Shrugged” in the National Review: http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp

Entertaining book, and good to see complete and unqualified support of capitalism. However, her characters are as one dimensional as those found in a Superman cartoon. Also, the absence of any children (because children interfere with her Objectivism theory of pursuing one’s personal goals and profession to the utmost) in either 800+ page book is rather odd. The most unrealistic aspect for me, however, is that one of the industry titans gets abruptly dumped by the heroine for the uber-capitalist, yet no jealousy or anger, completely amicable relations when all three are together soon after the dumping, etc. No man would act this way.

Most recent read: Battle Cry of Freedom (McPherson). Superb, comprehensive account of the Civil War and pre-War era. A little thin on the battles and campaigns (plenty of that available elsewhere), but great for learning more of the politics and passions of the people and the States.

Now reading: The Iliad (Homer)

Wow! I've been a HS English teacher for 18+ years and I am thoroughly impressed at the literacy demonstrated today. Given that the average post-college grad reads 1 book a YEAR - it would seem that Crossfitters are just as uniquely intense about their minds as we are about their bodies. I am seriously proud of all of you. P.S. - I finished "Lone Survivor" last night ans I cannot thank you enough for the recommendation. I am going to work on usinf segmenst of the book in my classroom teaching, as I think many of our young men and wqmen need to know about such powerful and selfless behavior.

#482 thedude

#487 is right

I was a Joe Weiderhead for far too many years and became CF convert 5 months ago.

These WOD's are enough - they say if you need to do more, you didn't push hard enough on the WOD.

I don't do curls, but those 100 rep pullup days will take care of your arms.

Welcome to CF --- 3-2-1 GO!

Whoops! Obviously, even English teachers need some work on their speed typing! (usinG, segmeNTS, amd wOmen)

#467 Todd

I bought mine at iron woody:

http://www.ironwoodyfitness.com/fitness-bands-stretch-bands-purchase-10-off.php

They are only two weeks old. But they are working great so far.

The World is Flat by Thomas Friedman

I am reading "Three Cups of Tea" and enjoying it so far. I have recently read several trashy novels while on airplanes and some fascinating deposition transcripts. Based on everyone's posts, I plan to go buy Lone Survivor and Gates of Fire - thanks for the recommendations!

I think Zinn and Rand are both provocative writers who, though on opposite ends of the spectrum, have similar effects on people. They have each engendered litle cults. Zinn was my first exposure many years ago to history that went beyond the canned version peddled in high schools. Rand was my first exposure many years ago to the discipline of philosophy. I ended up seeing both of them as deeply flawed, and saw some of my peers become blind acolytes of one or the other whose intellectual development was retarded by their failure to come to grips with those flaws. Yet, I am indebted to both of them for provoking me to think. They share the curse of being interesting.

By the way, my decision to take some time off was a good one. I returned to my normal hyperactive self after three days of rest and have resumed hard training, PRing Helen on Tuesday.

#489- quietly improving-

what did you think of playing for pizza? i really like grisham's stuff. sounds like we have similar taste, as the steven colbert book is also on my must read list, along with tom cruise: an unauthorized biography

#456 mark-

ha, those are GREAT books for women! nice easy read, and you learn some interesting stuff too. ;-) now we know your tricks. ha! :P

#487, #493
Thank you very much for your insight and warm welcome to CF! I look forward to seeing the great results I will get from these workouts!

Kemper,

You hit the nail on the head.

Happy For No Reason - Marci Shimoff

Holistic Management of Thyroid Disorders and Infertility.

Subbed yesterday's 30-40-50-60-70 workout for spreading 2.5 cubic metres of wet compost for time.

2h35m.

Another 2.5 cu m today.

#502, Nadia,

Loved it. I have been a John Grisham fan for years, but his later, non-lawyer related books like "A Painted House," "Bleachers," and the aforementioned title have been great reads. "A Painted House" reminded me of one of my favorite classics, "The Grapes of Wrath."

#467, Todd, thanks for the link!

Sorry...I meant thank you to #499, Reno_Ty for the link.

#499 The Dude
I fully understand what you're going through and why you posed the question. I look at lifting as a lost lover of sorts, and there are times I pine for a heavy BP workout. BTW, Rippetoe doesn't slam the bench as an exercise, he slams today's exclusive use of the BP as an exclusion to the O/H Press. Read his stuff -- he's truly remarkable.
That said, I don't know your fitness level or CF adaptability, but I will say that if you're really pushing hard during the WOD's you'll embrace the Rest Days with more love than any lifting exercise. Use the rest days to improve techniques (bar position, posture, etc) so you hit the next WOD with a rested body and sharper focus.
Just my 50-cents ~

And NADIA!!!! I keep my tricks to myself...lest they cease to be tricks! <;-) haha

Tomorrow will be my one week anniversary to CROSSFIT.

Only have time and energy these days for fiction...

Latest books re-read: "LA Requiem" and "The Watchman", both by Robert Crais.
I really admire Crais and his easy style, and I like the Elvis Cole-Joe Pike team. Makes me wonder: if they ever made the film (and he has sworn up and down he'll never selll the rights to the characters) who would be cast to play em?

Into The Wild

#18
Im reading The ROad right now. What an interesting book. I can't put it down.

#509

Congratulations! Depending on the WOD's, a week can be a really long time :-)

still plugging thru good calories, bad calories

gonna do some biceps today!

So much for rest day!

Ran our base's Terry Fox run today. 9k in 39:45 23rd overall.

"The case for Christ"

A great book that takes a historical look at the life of Jesus Christ to assess if the gospels are trustworthy pieces of literature or myth. It also looks at evidence outside of the bible to learn who Jesus was/is.

If you are like me a, very analytical/linear thinker, and you want some great information regarding Jesus Christ, written in a manner that is easy to digest and understand I would strongly recommend this book. It opened my eyes tremendously.

"Elvenborn" by Andre Norton and Mercedes Lackey

I always enjoy a good SF&F novel.

#509 Kali ~

Sincere congrats on the 1st week!

inspired by #496, the average millionaire reads 12 non-fiction books per year.

"The Girl, The Gold Watch, and Everything," by John D. MacDonald, 1962

MacDonald's Travis McGee books have been my favorite books since I was a kid. They were all written in the 60's, 70's, and 80's and the protaganist is, by far, my favorite character in any book.

I'm also in the middle of "Peace, Love, and Barbecue," by Mike Mills and Amy Mills Tunnicliffe

Funny stories and interesting backgrounds about my favorite cuisine.

Books on my nightstand:
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
Kansas, by Craig Miner
The Logic of Failure, Dietrich Doerner
The Fifth Discipline, Peter Senge
Systems thinking is my favorite subject.
Read No Country for Old Men last, powerful writing.
I read A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich once every year, waiting for a biography on Solzhenitsyn.
Big fan of Dostoyevsky, as I was a Russian major in college. For you fans of Crime & Punishment, did you know the character Columbo was inspired by Porfiry Petrovich?

Reading "Getting Stoned with Savages" a travelogue of the authors experience in the pacific islands which is the sequel to his book "The Sex Lives of Cannibals", similar idea. Both hilarious and interesting

Read "Coraline" by Neil Gaimann. I have read almost everything he has written. Awesome Alice and Wonderland story.

i am currently waiting for Sergei Lukyanenko's next book in the Nightwatch, Last Watch, to release in Oct.

Mastering the zone.

"The Matarese Circle" and the "Matarese Countdown"; Novels by Robert Ludlum and at the same time "John Adams" by David McCullough, the book the HBO series was based on. Sticking with that theme I may try "Generation Kill" next.

"The Integral Trees" by Larry Niven.

Cool ideas, weak plot. A bit disappointed after having read Ringworld, The Ringworld Engineers, and Lucifer's Hammer.

"The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand

Highly recommend it and "Atlas Shrugged" to both of the other people in the world who haven't read them yet. A truly life changing read.

Roark and Dagny and Galt. Pretty good stuff if you're a capitalist.

I'm reading Great Expectations. Hard to believe it's the same author as Bleak House.

"The Birth of Plenty" by William Bernstien

Very interesting read about the four key elements (Private Property, Scientific Rationalism, Capital Markets, and efficient transportation and communication) that came together in around 1820 to spur the incredible growth of the USA.

MMalmfeldt, I agree, The Fountainhead was life changing.

Nick,

Thought I'd spur you on a bit, nothing like rest day "mind-grappling". I certainly agree with natural selection and evolution WITHIN species, but not from species to species. I even looked at the so-called "divine-intervention" evolution, but really its difficult to be a creationist and fit the two models together. If its true that Darwin did recant his earlier theories, I find it interesting that he allegedly recanted and asked for forgiveness. I have no doubt that Darwin was a sincere and humble man, but there are many sincere, humble men who are wrong. Trust me this is definitely a struggle for me, coming from a science background and profession. We may not get the whole story on this one until, well, "that day" comes. I for one can't wait to understand it all.
Good to see you post again too.

Used today to catch up, but I'm going to be out for the next week or so. I'll be doing stuff that I can make up w/out weights or pull up bars.

Book? I don't read books unless its a training manual. Magazines, I read those. I don't have time for books.

Bingo #484 - persevere-pass through longwinding stretchtences to behold with relish the heroic in the mundane. It will repay the effort oh did I leave the kettle on damn I need to buy milk for the morning FfffffffFFFFFFFFfttt that's better.

(I freely admit that I don't get a lot of the classical references or the complexities, but I do like it and it makes me feel clever to think that I have read it.....albeit over the course of about 2 years.)

Anyone skimming for recommendations, try "A Prayer for Owen Meaney", by John Irving or "The Plot Against America" by Roth.

#528 Jay M.

Speciation is a big point of contention that is constantly argued about in many circles. I'd agree with you that we don't see many(if any) truly new species via evolution. At least, not in the limited scope of time we can effectively study. But over and over we can demonstrate the evolution and adaptation within a species (even within humans). For example, a carrier of the gene for sickle-cell anemia is a poor host for Malaria and is thus resistant to the disease. Thus, in some places in Africa, you find extraordinarily high levels of carriers of this trait. Clearly, this trait, within a species, has been selected via natural selection.

On the other hand, there is a controversy over whether or not the red wolf is actually a species. Many argue that it is just a cross between coyote and gray wolves. But it is a viable species/cross that is capable of reproduction. At that point, the question is one of semantics.

I think it's certainly possible to believe in creation by a higher power, and at the same time believe that the creation was robust enough to improve upon itself over time. Why not? That having been said, if someone takes a literal view of the Bible, sure, it wouldn't make sense. But I believe much of the Bible is metaphorical.

As a disclaimer, it's been 7 years since I got my degree and I haven't kept up with the "exciting" field of evolution since. So my examples may no longer be pertinent.

Lone Survivor is not the last book I read, but definitely one I will remember most (read Aug 07)

Just finished:
Enquiry by Dick Francis
Ines of My Soul by Isabele Allende

Currently re-reading Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence (gotta do something while the husband's out of town)

All This Hell: U.S. Nurses Imprisoned by the Japanese by Evelyn Monahan

Since we are on the topic of evolution, I just thought I would bring a common misconception to everyone's attention. Human beings did not evolve from chimpanzees. However, human beings and chimpanzees share a common ancestor.

good work Kali

#534
I'll bet chimpanzees can kick ass on kipping pullups.

Currently reading "IT" by Craig Groeschel

Awesome book based on "Leadership Principles" and though it centers around the ministry the principles are applicable to all aspects of life.

A lot of meat in this book. Have to read it in small doses as there is too much to chew. Take a peek you won't be disappointed. "IT"

33/M/179/6'00"

Day 1 of the VA Beach L2 Cert is done. We had a good (long) day and concluded with a fun workout.

It was:

With a continuous running clock, perform 1 pull-up in the 1st minute, 2 95# thrusters in the 2nd minute, 3 pull-ups in the 3rd minute, 4 thrusters in the 4th minute, etc, until you can no longer complete the required number of reps in the minute.

I made it to the 16 Thruster round but only completed 4 of the required 16.

Thanks to the rest of the gang for the workout! (It was Mike G's idea - that toe-squatting freak.)

Dan D.
www.CrossFitStickers.com

I just finished "On Combat" by Dave Grossman. It's Grossman's outstanding follow-up to "On Killing." The two book have a ton of excellent content.

Currently reading "The Rescue Season" by Bob Drury. So far it's an entertaining account of Alaska ANG Pararescue and their summertime adventures plucking folks out of harm's way.

This is a bit off the usual topics I've seen here, but thought I'd give it a try. I've read that crossfit also has beneficial effects on the nervous system, I would like to know if this extends to enhancing recovery process from nerve damage as a result of an impingement. Any doctors or someone with links about this?

Thx,

Ben

just finished:
A Short History of Nearly Everything
Bill Bryson

decent read, a good summary of where modern science is at, but for someone with a science background like me it's a bit of a review with a bunch of humerous anectodes and simple analogies thrown in. Highly reccomended for anyone that didn't study science.

right now on In Defense of Food by Pollan, which to me is really more of a less-entertaining clarification of the more salient points in Omnivore's for those that can't read between the lines.

I really gotta read some Fiction soon, been on a non-stop non fiction binge thanks to xfit. pah.

Also a Chuck P fan... last book was Rant

Ben#540

Check out this article
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/sports/playmagazine/0819play-brain.html?scp=1&sq=lobes%20of%20steel&st=cse

there is a more recent yet almost identical follow-up to this article somewhere els on the NYT website. I'm sure you'll find it if you take the time.

Mark #536 You're absolutely right.

Jay, I agree, "mind grappling" is one of my favorite hobbies.

It may be true that we haven't seen direct speciation via evolution. But we haven't directly seen any form of creation, either. The case for speciation through evolution is one based on evidence, where as there is no evidence for creation. Evolution of one species into another is corroborated by observation and classification of similar species, the fossil record, and genetics, to name a few. The rules of Natural Selection are pertinent to every field of biology and consistently allow prediction that matches observation. Creation is corroborated by a single book written by hundreds of different people, over thousands of years, being translated through many diverse languages and being edited and compiled by a group of people mandated to create a state religion.

This is not to say that no good comes out of the Bible, or that nobody should read it. I, myself, have read it several times, cover to cover. But I do not think that the Bible can tell the truth about the origins of life, as its stories have consistently been shown to be completely at odds with the facts.

I tried to reconcile my science with my religion, once, and found that it took a considerable amount of doublethink. In the end, I made a personal decision to abandon one of them, and ironically enough, a passage from the Bible assisted me in this decision, "By their fruits, shall ye know them." From my view, the fruits of science, rational inquiry and observation and evidence greatly outweight the fruits of dogma, fear and superstition. If there is a god, and he does have a plan, then the evidence suggests he wants me to be an atheist.

Shout out to Reno_Ty, M@, etc.: thanks for not leaving me hanging.

Mark,

Imagine this scenario: the best CrossFitters versus a chimp on how many kipping pull-ups can be performed in one minute. Who would you put your money on?

Books read lately:

Guide to Investing - Robert Kiyosake
Stay Mad - Jim Cramer
Under the Bar - Dave Tate

To those of you who have read and took "Lone Survivor" for face value I suggest you take a look at "Victory Point" when it comes out next year. I am in no way questioning the honor, service and sacrifice of the men of Seal Team 10. It was a tragedy what happened in those mountains and those men should be remembered and honored for their courage.

However, for those of you interested in the truth and not a hyped, overly imaginative Hollywoodesque narrative of 4 men taking on hundreds of re-supplied Taliban, you might enjoy "Victory Point." For the other men who were on the ground, "Lone Survivor" is a self absorbed, inaccurate account of events.

In addition, Marcus Luttrell has shamelessly sought profit and movie deals from his team's destruction. Because of this, I have lost all respect for him and his book and would like the real story to be told. Those men who gave all should be honored by telling the story accurately, not in a way to make Luttrell look like a hero.

The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook - Great stuff.

Before that it was Good Calories, Bad Calories...very eye opening!

My last fiction was The Watchmen, the graphic novel and non-fiction was;

15 Days by Christie Blatchford. I just finished my basic officer training with the Canadian Forces and the story of my course warrant was told in the first chapter. Highly recommended to anyone interested in the Afghan conflict.

unChristian by the Barna Group

Re: Barry Cooper #464

"Some, however, did so on the basis that no war, ever, in the history of warfare meets their criteria of killing only the guilty, and sparing without exception the innocent. Thus when they put objections out there that on the face of them COULD make sense, they are really presenting a dishonest face, behind which lurks a grand chasm of invisible distance between themselves and the mainstream range of consensus opinions."

What did you deduce this from? I don't remember such an unrealistic argument being put forward, but one that went more like this:

- Current measures in Iraq are working to the end that we want.
- Starting a war in Iraq will - based upon the fact that "no war, ever... meets the criteria of killing only the guilty" - inevitably result in the loss of innocent lives.
- Therefore, if we start a war we will be killing innocents without enhancing our ends.

(An argument which allows for war to take place, and under practical criteria; just not in this case.)

If you can show me hard evidence that a significant group of people did explicitly put forth the viewpoint you outlined, I will concede. If not, though, it seems that you are undertaking some revisionist history yourself.

Also, in order to make a claim, your points have to be factually accurate. It may interest you to know that Britain does in fact have Freedom of Information Act:

http://www.freedomofinformation.co.uk/

Furthermore:

"They... would not be able to do that in Europe if America had not become the most powerful nation in Earth's history by force."

I'm sorry, but don't you think this is overly simplistic? America became dominant after WWII because it had not taken as much damage as Europe (didn't really get bombed) - namely, it became dominant not directly through its own use of force, but because other major forces destroyed each other (not to say that America only played a minor role in WWII; also, its worth pointing out that the USA only became completely dominant with the fall of the USSR, which was basically another case of a major force more or less destroying itself, rather than through direct American force). Still, this is besides the point - is it because America became dominant that Europe now enjoys more liberty than most of the world? I'd say no - America and Europe held similar (read: similar, not identical) ideals, and it is probable that, after the removal of fascism, Europe would have developed in much the same way. A somewhat irrelevant post, though - what's been has been.

Finally:

"The question is always: what do we do now?"

Why ask? By the time you have an answer relevant to the now, now will have passed and the circumstances changed. Better to ask, "What should we not do now?". We know the answers already (and here, I'm sure you'd say leftism provides many of them). Then try other things. If they work, keep them; if not, you have a new answer for the next time you ask the question.

Sorry for anything garbled, it's late where I am.

#544 Nick

I absolutely agree with evidence based belief. At the same time, I would say most people I've met in my life (with VERY few exceptions) continue examining evidence throughout their lives. One great example of someone that has continued to examine evidence throughout his entire life was once considered one of the most prominent Atheists of our time: Antony Flew. This guy was THE poster child of Atheism. And a few years back, he changed his mind! This rocked a lot of people's worlds.

The argument for or against the Bible, I believe is a different argument than that for or against the existence of a God.

As far as evidence for creation goes, that's a no-brainer. Look around. Where did all this stuff come from? And I'm not talking about the complexity and organization. Has all matter and energy always existed? That is an incomprehensible idea and much less far-fetched than the concept of God (in my opinion).
That's why so many physicists are not Atheists.

When people argue that all matter and energy has always existed, it reminds me of a funny story:
A famous scientist was giving a speech about the solar system when a woman in the audience raised her hand. When given the chance to speak, she said, "I've always believed that the Earth rests on the back of a giant turtle". After everyone laughed and the speaker settled down the crowd, he replied: "That may be Madame, but what is the turtle standing on?". To this, the woman replied: "Oh no, you can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down!"

The Watchmen

I enjoyed it, and I now get little tingles of excitement whenever I see the movie preview.

Reno_Ty and Nick

Great points, and how amazing is it that certain mutations allow us to, in some cases better adapt to our environment. My question for you and Nick, do you believe in the randomness of those mutations and changes in genome to "select" the fittest or is this driven by something, someone, some power. I don't know, seems to take more faith to believe all this happens randomly and yet with perfect order, than to yield to faith and acknowledge the "Artist" behind the awesome portrait we discuss. The latin phrase "ex nihelo nihelfis" (forgive me if I misspelled it) means "from nothing, nothing comes". While we do have physical evidence of "evolution" at the species level, there is no evidence to refute the orchestration of this by God, in fact its seems difficult to explain it without Him. How many random mutations does it take to create a change in a species?
One thing I really do disagree with Nick. God does not want you to be an atheist. He might allow it for a time, but dude, He loves you!! The proof of that is very defensible, there is a Cross to prove it, and He'd have done it if you were the ONLY one!

And as far a man vs chimp doing kipping pullups, if Speal is our guy, my money is on him!! LOL

Anyone interested in Darwin might find this hour-long special interesting. E.O. Wilson and James Watson - giants of evolutionary biology - on Darwin. They argue - convincingly in my view - that Darwin is the most significant human being ever to have lived. W/f safe.

It's an inspiring discourse.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6927851714963534233

Peace.

Man Vs. Chimp...

Healthy average chimp would destroy ANY human being on this earth. But tough to prove because most chimps probably aren't that interested in doing pull-ups :-)

Just as even the lamest dolphin would crush Michael Phelps at any distance.

#555 J1

This page puts our "significance" into perspective:

http://www.kiroastro.com/writings/perspective

Did yesterdays as Rx.

20:55

Yes. I've been on a streak of good books lately. The last one would interest this audience most.
Warrior Girls: Protecting Our Daughters Against the Injury Epidemic in Women's Sports, by Michael Sokolove.
This advocate for women in sports is troubled by the high incidence of injury observed in young female athletes. Emphasis is given particularly to ACL injury in teen soccer, which provides ready and heart-breaking examples. He does not implicate primarily sex differences, stating that the real enemy to the health of these athletes is early specialization (read as failure to cross train). Tracked into one sport by age ten, only playing organized sports, and typically playing that sport 10 months per year most days of the week, including multigame weekend tournaments, is the disastrous recipe. But social pressures, parental ignorance, poor coaching, and the money fuel the condition. He does not go headlong into prescribing a particular crosstraining regimen but mentions a few good candidates (CF not among them). And this is a potential untapped area for CF. Coach, are you reading this. Our young athletes may need a performance enhancement/injury prevention program that defines itself largely by a lack of specialization and overuse. Something that can be implemented within scheduled practice sessions. I vote we try CrossFit.

anyone in military or law enforcement should make it a point to read "ON KILLING" and "ON COMBAT" by Lt. Col. David Grossman. These two books without a doubt help to prepare you mentally for combat.

Also you can get those rubber bands from www.jumpstretch.com. they are based out of Youngstown OH.

I've been on a streak of good books lately. The last one would interest this audience most.
Warrior Girls: Protecting Our Daughters Against the Injury Epidemic in Women's Sports, by Michael Sokolove.

This advocate for women in sports is troubled by the high incidence of injury observed in young female athletes. Emphasis is given particularly to ACL injury in teen soccer, which provides ready and heart-breaking examples. He does not implicate primarily sex differences, stating that the real enemy to the health of these athletes is early specialization (read as failure to cross train). Tracked into one sport by age ten, only playing organized sports, and typically playing that sport 10 months per year most days of the week, including multigame weekend tournaments, is the disastrous recipe. But social pressures, parental ignorance, poor coaching, and the money fuel the condition. He does not go headlong into prescribing a particular crosstraining regimen but mentions a few good candidates (CF not among them). And this is a potential untapped area for CF. Coach, are you reading this. Our young athletes may need a performance enhancement/injury prevention program that defines itself largely by the lack of specialization and can be implemented within routine practice sessions. I vote we try CrossFit.

#522 Reno_ty
I think some of the problem comes from the stubborn typecasting that goes on in both camps. The word "atheist" shouldn't even be a word, its kind of like saying I'm an "Aunicornist" (dont believe in unicorns), but it comes from people having to define themselves by what they aren't rather then what they are. When people take an overwhelming subject like GOD or the question of where we came from and think they can answer it in a book and claim they hold the only answer is where I start having problems with religion. So I guess you could categorize many atheists that way just because they dont believe in a god with humanlike characteristics that explains to us how we can beat our slaves or sell our daughters into sexual slavery. But, I do think that there is an overwhelming power, although I don't have the understanding to truly comprehend it. Maybe it is energy, maybe time is a concept of our imaginations, who knows. I think a lot of "atheists" (such as myself) take the title just to make the point that we do not agree with the tenets of religion, if that makes sense. Personally, every time I have used the term agnostic it seemed to have the connotation that I was confused, and just needed the bible to answer my questions (according to the church recruiters out every friday and saturday night in downtown). Granted, there a lot of atheists who don't ask themselves some of the more important questions, but that is just my take on it.
Love the quote! Ironically I just read "A Brief History" of time which begins with that quote. What I like about it is that it seems so silly...but what if its really true???

I played a little racquetball today to keep everything nice and loose.

Since #516, Brad, mentioned a book by Lee Strobel (one of my favorite authors) and since the whole creation vs. evolution debate is/was on the table, I'll go ahead and mention a book I recently read. It's another book by Strobel entitled "The Case for a Creator". If you are interested in science or work in the scientific arena, you should definitely give this one a read at some point.

Omnivores Dilemna

No way!
Coast Guard getting CrossFit certified!?

What does this mean for the branch?

Hopefully it will be a service wide decision to make CrossFit our routine, and put the right equiptment at each station! Yeah buddy!

Man, I one Coastie in there and all the sudden I read the title. I wonder if Headquarters is checking it out to see how good the program is. I know they will love it. I hope someone writes in on how it went, and hopefully what plans are in progress for the future.

This was my goal to bring the Coast Guard toward CrossFit but I guess they would have discovered it sooner or later without much push for it.

Anyone else here in the Coast Guard?

#554 Jay M. in SC

I'm really not interested in the debate but I would like to clarify a few points. Random genetic mutations do not select for anything. You are absolutely right in thinking that something is driving the change. Evolutionists propose that the environment is that something. Random mutations occur, and the environment the species find themselves in will dictate whether or not the mutation will benefit the species or not. That being said, a particular mutation might benefit a species in one environment yet send it to its doom in another. Mutations are random and don't necessarily occur to improve, they just occur. Think of cystic fibrosis. There's a mutation that confers no advantages. However, modern medicine allows individuals stricken with the condition to survive.

I am America and so can you - stephen colbert. Amusing...

worked out somewhat today since the weekend doesn't have much promise for time to work out with a friend visiting.

6 sets of 5 @ 135# press
2 sets of 20 reps squats @ 135.

plus mowing and assorted yardwork before dark.

Recent books:
Gates of Fire
My FBI
The Terror Presidency
Screwtape letters

Soldmyself short on last post ... 5 cu.m. of compost in 2hrs 30-something yesterday. 5 more today!

M@

I think your clarification is a good one. I guess what I meant to say was the mutation allows the physical adaptation, while the environment select the "fittest" adaptation. Either way, do you really defend random "happenstance" as the author of all you see? I'm with Reno_Ty "thats incomprhensible".

Sorry M@ - just adding a bit of humor to a long day. BTW, Chimp vs human would be an interesting comparison. Certainly I don't think Bubbles (MJ's friend) could do much against a CF'er, but if he were allowed to wear just one sequins glove like his owner did, he may prove a worthy opponent.
Ha-ha....I had to toss the glove reference out there. Sorry ~

On Sparta by Plutarch, Enter the Zone and Puff The Magic Dragon - all at about the same time. All of them were good but Puff comes out on top I think.

book.....well, does going through your kids backpacks after the 1st day of school reviewing 3rd, 2nd, and Kindergarten curriculum count? How about People magazine???? My cancer magazine???

TOODLES!!! :)

Mark,

No need to apologize. I thought your comment was absolutely hilarious.

the corrections by johnathon franzen
dubliners by james joyce
by night in chile by roberto bolano

trying to prove that hipsters can be strong. In my circle of friends it's cool to know something that some one else doesn't and to wear clothes that you'll be embarrassed about in 5 years.

I think I can deadlift every boy in williamsburg

#551: that was Zinn. Despite his understanding of the evil of Fascism, he would not have fought WW2. He does not believe innocent people should ever be killed. War, on his account, is intrinsically immoral, and therefore no end can every justify the means.

Fortunately, there are enough adults left for now to tell him to sit down and STFU.

With respect to Europe, remind me again how and why WW1 came to an end? Then please help me recall from the depths of my addled brain how and why WW2 came to an end.

Then please help me remember just why the Soviet Union, with an overwhelming advantage in troops and military supplies relative to Western Europe, which combined with an amoral effort to conquer as much of humanity as it could, never rolled its tanks west? Didn't there used to be a wall, where was it? Germany somewhere?

We are the preeminent power in the world because we are a dynamic people with free markets, and a rational political system. We are where intelligent, energetic, ambitious people want to come to build something new. Not the only place, but a primary place.

Prole,

Destruction is not creation. We've been over this. Sooner or later the creation has to happen, and invariably if leftists are involved it looks something exactly like what the Chinese and Soviets tried, or possibly what has generated a generation of cripples in Europe that doesn't want to reproduce, doesn't want to defend its culture, in general, and which basically wants to live out its life in sybaratic trivialities.

The American nation is a physical population which governs itself under the rule of law as embodied in our Constitution. I regret to have to inform you, but it's quite likely that if Zinn defines the People as the true essence of the nation, then he isn't a person at all.

Intellectuals are never people. Marx and Engels--neither one of them--ever worked an honest day in their lives. Intellectuals are tyrants of people.

last full book read: Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell, currently reading We Were Soliders Once and Young by Hal Moore, read bits of the Bible daily...

"Choke" by Chuck Palahniuk. Even better than "Fight Club"

Apparently my earlier post didn’t take. What is the typical delay in minutes or hours between submission of a post and it appearing on the Crossfit site?
For the Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead) superfans, I’d recommend reading Whittaker Chambers’ 1957 highly critical review of Atlas Shrugged in the National Review: http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp
Rand gives interesting stories with excellent, unqualified praise for capitalism. However, her protagonists and antagonists have all the depth and complexity of the characters found in a Superman cartoon. Also, she has not one child mentioned (if I remember correctly) in either of her 800+ page major novels. This is because kids (and God, who is also completed absent – no mention of churches) cause one to limit his pursuit of absolute professional success and personal enjoyment (the essence of Objectivism). Another ridiculous part of Atlas Shrugged is when the heroine abruptly dumps the industry captain for the uber-capitalist, and yet the former guy is not angry, bitter, etc. He accepts it immediately and is perfectly fine planning alongside the other two soon thereafter, as though he suddenly became some testosterone-lacking eunuch.
Last read: Battle Cry of Freedom (McPherson). Great one volume account of the antebellum era and Civil War. Not the greatest for accounts of battles and campaigns (plenty of those available elsewhere), but superior accounts of the politics and passions of the eras, people, and States
Current read: Iliad (Homer)

Italo calvino's "If on a winter's night a traveler"

#556 falloutshelter
C.S Lewis is brilliant. "The Screwtape Letters" changed my life.

#534 Mark
Best post all day!

I am reading "Fleeced" by Dick Morris and "Authentic Christianity" by Ray Stedman

I just finished an upper level course on Science and Religion (at a non-Christian school).
I found it to be quite challenging. I found myself exposed to a whole lot of speculation in the "science" world that has been traditionally touted as fact. I learned that I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist.

I am convinced that Jesus was who he claimed to be and that the Bible is a completely reliable historical record.

Since the scriptures were written with the assumption that all men possess a desire to know their creator and learn about why we are here, the bible doesn't seek to prove God as the designer of what has plainly been designed by a creator (too intricate and precise a universe to have "just happened").

I think a more important question is about the sense which resides in all of our hearts and minds concerning fairness, justice/injustice, and moral law. Every law requires a lawgiver, and a moral law requires a moral lawgiver. After that, I have found that the scriptures confirm and complement science.

Dr. Henry Morris, Lee Stroebel and Norm Geisler have all authored great resources about the relationship between science and faith.

Great posts today from both sides of the issue!

BTW, at CFSD I have witnessed men/women kip like a butterfly, lift like an ape, grunt like a bear and run like gazelles. At the end of the day, they're all uniquely and specially created to adapt and overcome........as elite human performers.

Jay, Reno, Zo:

Thanks for participating in the discussion. I've got a lot to respond to!

Reno: evidence-based belief. I wouldn't call it belief, which usually has connotations of faith, or uncertainty. If you define belief as "any cognitive content held as true," then I'll agree with you. But, if this is your definition of the word, then I see no distinction between faith-based belief and evidence-based belief. All "faith" or whatever is based on SOMETHING. We "believe" something because of causality; we have seen some type of "evidence" that points us in that direction. For many people, the "evidence" for religion is a feeling that they get, or the fact that a respected person told them it was correct. Both of these instances are wide open to doubt simply due to subjectivity. Science gives me a chance to observe, hypothesize, perform a wide variety of tests, then predict the outcome of another set of tests based on data, revise my hypothesis if necessary, and eventually come to a conclusion. It also removes a significant amount of subjectivity from the equation by allowing many people to review, interpret and corroborate (or refute) my conclusions. Religion does not do this. It is simply happy with one answer, derived from unknown sources, providing data that may or may not match observation.

I would humbly contest that creation is not evidence of a creator. This is circular logic. The presence of a watch implies that a watchmaker exists, true. But you must agree that the watchmaker is several orders of magnitude more complicated than the watch. If this holds true, then how much more complicated is the watchmaker's creator than the watchmaker? Supposing there is a God, who is orders of magnitude more complicated than his creation, the question is begged, who created God? God was always there? For eternity, you say? This sounds a lot like "turtles all the way down." So, then religion does not ANSWER the question of creation, it dodges it. Personally, I'd rather take the scientific, skeptical approach and say that "I don't know, but I'll try to find out." Or, "I don't know, but the evidence suggests...." These are preferential to me than to avoid the entire question with a story that makes me feel happy. To quote Richard Dawkins, "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world."

Jay: "Ex nihilo nihil fit." Physics would argue that this is incorrect, since we have observed matter and anti-matter spontaneously created in vacuum. However, this is of minor consequence to the point of the discussion. I don't see nature as being "random." It's true that there is a (forgive the language) certain UNcertainty at the quantum level, but uncertainty is not randomness. Mutations and natural selection, climate and weather, planetary orbits and galactic cycles may all seem to be random, simply due to their complexity. But all systems, regardless of complexity, follow very specific rules--Natural Laws-- that can be expressed mathematically. Mathematical relationships between things is no evidence of God, it's simply evidence that all things obey natural laws; we're all part of the universe. So, to quote Frank Lloyd Wright, "I believe in God, only I spell it Nature."
Jay, you are right, there is no evidence to refute that god is orchestrating this. But, if there is a god, there SHOULD be evidence that he is orchestrating it, and there isn't. By extension, there is no evidence to refute Bigfoot, or unicorns, and no evidence to refute that it's not Thor, Odin, Ra, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster that is doing the orchestrating. I've no more reason to believe in unicorns or Odin than I have to believe in God or "turtles all the way down." Lack of evidence when there should be evidence is pretty strong evidence against. Of course, you say that God requires our faith, not proof, but this is just dodging the question with circular logic, again. Maybe we're both atheists, except that I believe in one less god than you? If you figure out why you don't believe in all other gods, then you'll figure out why I don't believe in any of them.

Zo: I rather like the word "atheist," it's a perfectly good word. I don't use it to identify myself as a person, or as a philosophy, or as a job. I use it as a way to express my religion. Religions require some type of god, so my religion is a "no god religion." I use the term atheist to let religious people know where I stand. If it's philosophy that were talking, I usually identify myself as a "rationalist." So, I agree with you. Re: Agnostic. Gnosis is "knowing," so an A-gnostic, is somebody who does not know. As distinguished from an atheist who knows perfectly well.

Now, to avoid people thinking that I am narrow-minded, or that my atheism is as much a belief as any religion, I offer this. I am the easiest person to convert, as you don't have to convince me of anything that I might have an emotional rejection to. All you have to do is show me evidence. Just some evidence-- but real evidence-- that is verifiable, falsifiable, repeatable and allows predictability. Show me that and I'll "believe" it. Until then, I will remain skeptical.

Anyway, Jay, I'm glad that you don't hate me for my views, and it's definitely not my purpose to insult you. I enjoy the banter and in the end, we'll probably just agree to disagree. You're obviously a decent human being and have earned my respect. If you believe in God and that God has a plan and loves everybody, then certainly you must believe that he has a plan even for atheists.

To everybody else, thanks for contributing to the discussion without vitriol or name-calling. "Mental wrestling," as Jay call is it, is quite amusing.

ken c ... how old is your son? (i'm 32!) that series gets pretty serious toward the end. i loved the movie, too!

The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas, père

Next up is Shōgun by James Clavell. Both of these I've read before. At the same time as Monte Cristo I've been reading Capitalism and Freedom, by Milton Friedman and The Art of War, by Niccolo Machiavelli, translated by Ellis Farneworth

#580 Nick

I disagree, but you make a strong case for your views. Classy post bro'.

Although #534 M@ was great, I meant to say that #536 Mark was the best post of the day.

Nick

Again a good dicussion and your arguments are sound and well presented. I do agree to disagree and certainly have many friends with whom that remains the case on some issues. Honestly, I like the diversity of people life introduces to me. I'm content with my faith-based views, but certainly respect the intellect of the views you present. Thanks again for the opportunity to reason together. Until we "rest" again.....

Variety is the spice of life.
And while we've all got some differences, we're all men (meant as the species, not the gender). And just as steel is sharpened by steel, so one man can sharpen another.

Thanks, Jay and everybody else, for helping "sharpen" me. I hope that I have returned the favor, if only in some small way.
Chris #583, "classy" is probably one of the best compliments I've received. Thanks, buddy.

shana

have boys 9 and 5. oldest is pretty intellectual. the little guy is already a crossfit hack.

gaucoin

i think its too late for me on the brain rotting. did most of that some time ago.

Officially added to my Crossfit lexicon:

"Chimp Kipper"

A person who posseses an above average level of pullup capacity and skill.

"Dude, did you see Speal's Fran video? He was totally Chimp kipping!"

Cory #563,

Ya I'm a Coastie too @ Airsta San Fran. Me and a few guys head up some wod's a few days a week whenever we get the chance. Where r u stationed?

Darji 551

I think it's safe to say that if the United States had never existed, or had not been the nation that it was, by 1946 (or earlier) Europe would have been either a Fascist or Stalinist totalitarian prison (that says nothing about the quality of Europe's intellectual, artistic and cultural history, it speaks only of it's military capacity compared with that of Germany and the USSR - let us not forget that Athens lost the Peloponnesian war to Sparta)

But I agree the rhetorical question "who won the first/second/cold war?" leaves much to be desired....

...Barry,

In the first world war the US was the icing on the French and Commonwealth cake (poised, however, to be the next 5 courses, like at an Indian weeding).

In the pacific theatre of the second world war the US was the whole meal, with a little Indo-European seasoning.

In the European theatre the US was a healthy side-dish, like the fish plate at an Italian wedding, (though it was nearly forgotten in the kitchen by the waiter). The USSR was the main course, while Britain and the commonwealth provided the libations. Stalin had given Hitler pneumonia in the suburbs of Stalingrad in the winter of 42/43, and then broke Hitler's back at Kursk in the spring of 43.

Salerno was half a year later and meant a precarious foothold. D-day was over a full year later.

The Cold War and Potsdam before it? the US was the whole meal, appies, entres, bevies, and creme caramel.

"Making the Corps" by Thomas Ricks.

OK, I have to jump in, too, on the Ayn Rand discussion, if only because my 16 year old son has picked up Atlas Shrugged, and I would never say to him what I think, but I have to get it off my chest somewhere. I read part of Atlas Shrugged (I think, that's the one with the architect, right?) when I was a young man and a liberal. I'm a lot older now and a conservative, so I'm closer in sympathy to Rand's philosophy. But I still remember how stilted the converations and relationships were and how overbearing the "hero" was. I respect anyone who is motivated enough to pick the book up, but honestly I don't now how anyone can read her.

Thanks, I feel better now.

"Chasing A Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State." By Tarek Fatah, a Muslim and one-time left-wing student leader in Pakistan -- who now lives around the corner from me in Toronto and hangs out at the local Tim Hortons.

Fatah deplores the duplicity of Imams who blame the West for the ills of the Islamic World -- and seek to establish an Islamic state (rather than the state of Islam.)

It's an important book that deserves a wider audience than it is likely to get.

The Republic by Plato.

Annihilation from Within - The Ultimate Threat to Nations, By Fred Charles Ikle

Synopsis - Science always marches forward at an accelerating pace while religion and politics move along a zig-zag course. This divergence will widen and endanger the survival of all nations. Very interesting theory and chilling to say the least. Highly recommended.

Lone Survivor

Absolutely incredible heroism!

Ended up doing 200 burpees (i just started the burpee challenge today) in 20 minutes and then went and did 40 yard sprints. Couldn't resist. =) And as of tomorrow I'm in only a 837 burpee deficit!
Wish me luck!

Nick 581.... very well put!
to those who think evolution is a guided perfection... why are 99% of all the species that ever lived extinct?? doesnt sound perfect to me.

I would like to chime in as another reader of the Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan. I am a zone guy and I have now introduced as much local food as I can into my diet.

I have also read "Fox in Socks" by Dr. Seuss at least 100 times in the last year. Here's a quote, read it out load for time:

(Picture a fox, a pair of socks, a box and a guy named Knox).

Fox, Socks, Box, Knox. Knox in Box, Fox in Socks. Knox on Fox in Box in Socks. (It goes on for fifty pages)

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

Did CFE WOD today. Results posted on other site.

#580 Chris,

-Nice post brother!

I read the Holy Bible daily, because I like non-fiction. "Jesus said," He was The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and He said, "NO ONE" comes to the Father (goes to heaven) apart from Him.

"The Wrecking Crew" by Thomas Frank
"The Age of American Unreason" by Susan Jacoby

Don't know if anyone will read this... ever :-P
Got back home late and enjoyed reading everyone's posts. I've gotta say, this board is mostly filled with level-headed guys (atheists, theists, agnostics, whatevers!...). I'm impressed.

Don't want to be too dogmatic but I have a couple of quick responses and then I'll leave the lofty talk for another rest day!

Nick:

Your watch analogy is exactly why I believe there must be a creator. If something as simple as a watch must have a creator that is magnitudes more complex than the watch itself, then how did the human brain (the most complicated design known to man in the universe) come into existence?

You said:
"For many people, the "evidence" for religion is a feeling that they get, or the fact that a respected person told them it was correct"

I don't believe things because of the way the ideas make me feel. That makes no sense to me. In fact, I would argue that if you're honest with yourself, you believe what you believe involuntarily. The best evidence (that you have been presented with) will always win out. Many people want to believe there is a God because it makes them feel good. But how many really investigate whether God is really likely?

Barry:

I would never say evolution is guided perfection. Just the opposite. It's a messy process. But it still doesn't explain the complexity of life very well. Also, if evolution is the driving force for new types of life, then why is diversity dwindling so rapidly. Surely previous ice ages and other intense climate phenomena have placed more stress on the life on this planet than man's mucking around! If we are down to the last 1% of species diversity, then where did the other 99% come from in the first place? If the earth started out without a viable ecosystem (ie a desert), then how did the simple first life forms survive in such a harsh environment and bootstrap their way into this lush planet?

Anyway, gotta go. Good posts everyone! And I thought I was just trying to get in shape with CF! Sheesh!

Re: Barry Cooper #575, Prole #590

Let me clarify.

The World Wars did come to an end with American intervention, no doubt about it. If I made out that they didn't, my mistake. My point, though, was that, while Barry claimed that , I say that it did so also because . In the case of Europe, especially Britain, the destroyer was WWII; in the case of the USSR, a bad political philosophy.

I believe the second part of the paragraph needs more clarification (the part starting "is it because America...", to which Prole replied "I think it's safe to say that if the United States had never existed, or had not been the nation that it was, by 1946 [or earlier] Europe would have been either a Fascist or Stalinist totalitarian prison"). Prole, I agree, had WWII happened without America, Europe would probably have been overrun. However, since I asked:

"Is it *because America became dominant* that Europe now enjoys more liberty than most of the world?"

it is necessary to take into account how America became dominant.

As I said above, WWII was a necessary part of America achieving dominance. Therefore, if America had not become dominant, that suggests to me that the other powers did not fight and destroy themselves - namely, WWII did not happen. If WWII hadn't had happened, would it be safe to say that (Western) Europe would, given that it held similar ideals to America, develop into a liberal corner of the Earth? I'd say yes.

Therefore, I don't see that it is true that "They wouldn't be able to do that in Europe if America hadn't become the world's most powerful nation by force." I'd say, "They wouldn't be able to that in Europe if, after its own power had been destroyed, America hadn't been left as the major credible force on Earth."

And to re-iterate:

A somewhat irrelevant post, though - what's been has been.

As for:

"We are the pre-eminent power in the world because we are a dynamic people with free markets, and a rational political system. We are where intelligent, energetic, ambitious people want to come to build something new. Not the only place, but a primary place." Agreed. That's why the USA is now the world's only superpower - good politics for the right type of people.

With regards to Zinn's viewpoints, fair enough, he may hold such illogical viewpoints: but does he represent a significant group of people - i.e. a relatively large and influential portion? I don't see that he does (personally, I haven't met many pacifists).

Sorry, missing text:

Barry claimed that America became the world' most powerful nation through the use of its own force,
I say that it did so also because the other world powers destroyed themselves, leaving America as the only one on the playing field.

There's a lot of talk about evolution today; for those interested in further reading, I recommend "The Plausibility of Life: Resolving Darwin's Dilemma" by Marc W. Kirschner and John C. Gerhart. I haven't read much myself, so can't say much, but a number of biologists I know praise it very highly.

#592

Ayn Rand. Bad thinking and worse writing. Who is John Galt? Who cares.

#601

I also read the Bible daily because I find a good laugh really starts off the day. Again, bad thinking and worse writing. Belief is a scary thing when it has no basis in reality.

Rest day!!! F-THAT S! Hehe, i did a Tabata.

Pull-ups: 7
Squats: 17
Push-Ups: 12
Sit-ups: 10
Total: 46

Thats the lowest of the scores for each of the 8 sets.

#607

I highly doubt you read the Bible daily.

Psalm 14:1:

"Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!"

Following on from #604 Darije's responses to Barry and Prole - havent followed all the discussion, made a note of a few books to read from the CF reading list though. Coach can you do a book query again soon?

Slight aside to the discussion but imo Nazi Germany had set the seeds of its destruction and was set for defeat from 1941 when it attacked Russia.

this one was a first for me.
23:15

Two days late...

Power Faith and Fantasy - R. Oren
This is a pretty good summary of America's involvement (politically and militarily) in the middle east.

Also wanted to recommend one of the better American history pieces I have read: A History of the American People (P. Johnson). It doesn't go way overboard on painting America as a super hero like a lot of other history books do. Tends to look at both pro and con throughout.

Gar
Not really following your point with the quote. Are you saying that if you don't believe in god you can do not good, and are evil? I don't believe in god, but I think I am continually developing to make myself a better person. Are you really that full of yourself and deluded to think that only followers of your specific religion (and you seem like you would go further to make it as specific as denomination) are the righteous, and the rest of our poor souls are wallowing around in our evil ways? Brutal, maybe you should come up with your own ethical foundation instead of throwing quotes around, thats intellectually and morally lazy.

Otherwise, great book discussion, thanks everyone. I wrote down a ton of them, and hopefully I can get some good reading over the next year with my newfound list. Great topic, thanks again!

I always learn something when I read the WOD comments.

Today I discovered that I am 'corrupt' and 'evil'! Which puts me in the highly esteemed company of Skeletor and Cobra Commander. Not bad.

#607 Jub Jub, we should have a drink sometime, and discuss the puerile narcissism that underpins Ayn Rand's untenable 'philosophy'.

I just finished 4 books more or less at the same time:

Anatomy of Movement - Blandine Calais-Germaine(about the 5th time I've read it)

An Anthropologist on Mars - Oliver Sacks (bizarre case-studies from the Neurologist behind 'Awakenings')

An Elegant Universe - Brian Green (superstring theory. heavy on metaphors, not on math. which is pretty much the only way I could understand theoretical physics)

Gates of Fire - Steven Pressman (big favorite here, historical fiction about Spartans at Thermopylae)

Kafka On The Shore was the last book I finished for myself, but I just finished reading The Rats of Nimh to my son. Before that was Despereaux.
Up next... The 4 hr Workweek.

24:18 as rx'd, need to work on burpees!!!

most people have moved on, but just in case anyone checks back...

just finished "under the banner of heaven" by krakauer. funny how all fundamentalist movements work the same, regardless of what religion it is.

finishing "john adams" by david mc cullough.

about to start "big russ and me" by tim russert and "walden"

thanks for all the new additions to my reading list!

ck

Colleen,

From one to ten, how's the book on Adams?

Mario,

Rand is like Rush (the rock band), you love 'em or you hate 'em (and appreciation of neither will get you laid).

got my first muscle up today

#623 Anon,

Bwahhhhhaaaaa - well if you must know, I have lost 25 pounds since that video was shot, had a knee surgery gone bad and rehab was not allowed for 6 months - I had gained a little weight during that time. But thanks for your concern - jackasss ;)

#616 ZO,

Hay brother, don't shoot the messenger. The quote is from the Bible, not me. Just because I believe it to be true, does not mean you have to. If you have a problem with the truth found in the Bible, I suggest you talk to the One who inspired its authors to write what they did. I'm sure He can answer all your burning questions.

Peace

The Annals of Imperial Rome by Tacitus

It's interesting to see how many people are reading books that I just finished recently. Right before this deployment I read Lone Survivor, which is on many people's list. I just finished 2 books, "Jawbreaker" about the CIA in Afghanistan, and "The Last Lecture" by Randy Pausch. "The Last Lecture" was great, I think it will definitely affect how I live my life, treat the people close to me, and raise my kids (someday).

re: Nick

"But, if there is a god, there SHOULD be evidence that he is orchestrating it, and there isn't."

I completely disagree. The whole crux of this statement is that what we think as rational and right is what a God would think is rational and right. You are presupposing that God thinks like us and we like him.

Who are we to say what "SHOULD" or "SHOULD NOT" exist!

In the end, we believe what we want to believe and our worlds mold around that "want" or desire. If I want to believe that nothing created the world and that it's just always existed and will continue to long after I'm rotting in the ground, then there are plenty of "theories" to back that claim.

If, on the other hand, I want to believe that God exists, there is plenty of "evidence" to suggest that he does.

To me, looking at the variety of life, the complexity of the solar system, oceans, ocean currents, photosynthesis, the miracle that life can exist in/on an earth that is part of some unfathomably large solar system, or life itself (from the idea of conception, that in itself is unfathomable to think how an embryo is created/conceived) is more than enough evidence to suggest there is a God.

In fact, I'm in the hospital right now where my beautiful wife just gave birth to a beautiful, healthy son (3rd child). It's a circle of life.

In the end...yes, my world view is tainted, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest to anyone that there is a God (and, vice versa, enough "doubt" in how it all happened to engender those thoughts that lead away from God). It's just a matter of what you want. And, to me, it's that simple.

Asking for concrete, tangible evidence is available. Look at the dirt. Look at a seed. Look at life that is created when water, with a little sunlight, is added to a seed. Honestly, what are the odds that we would be able to live on a planet that can foster life when there's nothing else, at least that has been discovered, within millions of light years that offers similar conditions. Look at your children. Look at yourself. To think that we're on this earth to be born and die and that to be the end, for me, is something that propels me onward to find out why I am here, what I'm supposed to do here and what the end result will be.

In the end, the world will present itself to you in the way that you want to see it because we've been given a gift of life, to live as we so choose and make of it what we will. My world presents itself to me, both scientifically and spiritually, in such a way that I know God exists.

What you do with your world is up to you.

Too many posts in the mix. Couple responses on what was offered.

We would be a superpower even if Europe had not "detroyed" itself. Reality is, though, no major war has been fought there since 1945, and had the Europeans so chosen, they could be our military equals. They've had plenty of time to rebuild.

Instead, they outsourced their own self defense--the credible part of it, in any event--to us, and spent the rest on fat retirement plans, social programs, and four week vacations.

BrightonGeoff: read the history of the campaign in Russia. As I have so many times before, I recommend "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". It was only because of a delay in which Hitler overran Yugoslavia--I think out of personal anger at an assassination--that the Wehrmacht did not win that war in the first season. They started a little late. Then Hitler overruled his commanders, if memory serves, and prevented their planned push straight to Moscow, which likely would have eliminated the commmand and control that eventually enabled the Russians to win.

The plan was a good plan, just like the plan to invade Western Europe--self evidently--was a good one. We had no business winning that war, if you study the history carefully. Had half a dozen factors that fell largely to chance fallen another way, we would be speaking German.

In any event, we were without a doubt the decisive factor in ending World Wars 1, 2, and--on some accounts--3.

Quick note on evolution. What is intended by the word, typically, is what I have defined as "Morphogenesis through random change coupled wit random benefit."

Now, change over time, linked genetically to what came before, is quite obviously the case. One has only to look through a catalog of the types of dogs that have been bred over the past several thousand years to know this. If you want dogs that are always black, only let the black ones breed. This was clear 2,000 years ago.

What is not clear is that increasing complexity can be built ONLY through random mutation coupled with random benefit. That this process is both necessary and sufficient. I don't personally think it is. There is considerable evidence in favor of what might be termed "biofields", that in my view HAS been brought within the scientific, experimental fold.

It has just been ignored.

I spent a good six months, off and on, reading a book only available in Germanon on the state of the evidence in favor of the biologicl significance of observable biophoton emissions in all living systems, including humans.

To the extent of my recollection, there are only 3 explanations for this phenomenon, and two of them demonstrably don't pass muster. Yet these two are clung to by the mainstream scientific establishment with the assiduity of the religious zealot.

This is but one example of many which has informed my--shall we say--loss of naive faith in the power of scientists to conduct science. No one claims all religious believers are perfectly congruent in their beliefs and actions, but for some reason people want to keep that aura of sanctity for our last remaining shared priesthood.

Tom:

I think your heart is in the right place, but I don't think you're looking at the whole picture.

First, you suggest that reality is somehow subjective. This is not the case. You can believe or "want" all day long, and it won't change the real world at all. It may change YOU, but we're not talking about you, we're talking about reality. The truth is not subjective and it does not bow to anybody's wants or beliefs.

Next, life, dirt, stars, babies, etc. are NOT evidence for god. They are evidence for life, dirt, stars and babies. I mentioned a watch and watch-maker, earlier. We KNOW that a watch has a maker because we have seen them make watches and we have never seen watches grow from trees or hatch from rocks. However, we have never seen god create anything, nor have we seen things come into being in miraculous ways. When I say that there SHOULD be evidence for god, I mean that from everything that "god has told us" in any number of sacred texts (the Bible, Quar'an, Buddhist Texts, Indian Sutras) or from any of his prophets or priests does not stand up to observation. Yes, things happen coincidentally, but no priest, prophet or religious book has yet to make predictions of events that are repeatable. Science, however, does this all the time. Everything from predicting the trajectory of a comet, to calculating how much electricity is require to power the monitor that you are using to read this post.

Let me give you a specific example. Religious people say that prayer helps sick people, and there are "scientific" studies that show this phenomenon. Prayer is supposed to work a certain way, you ask god for something and if it's according to his will, then he gives it to you. So, supposedly, praying for somebody to overcome illness works some type of miracle. Allegedly, prayer has helped people overcome everything from cancer to erectile disfunction. If it is really prayer that cures these people, then my question is "why does god hate amputees?" Because no amputee has ever miraculously regrown a limb, no matter how many people have prayed for them no matter how long they have prayed. But doctors (not priests or prophets) have re-attached amputated limbs. Doctors were able to do this based on the rules and structure identified by the science of medicine.

As for finding out what were are doing here, how we got to be here and where we are going, science does a much better job of answering these questions than does religion. Some people don't like those answers because it makes them feel all alone. Those answers are scary because they mean that you are responsible for what you do and that you have just one chance at life. It's scary to think that some day you will not be, and that what you do with this life is drastically important because of that fact. It's scary to think that you are in charge of your future and that any failure in your life is not part of the plan of some beneficent, omnipotent intelligence. But fear does not make truth.

Barry:

There is nothing "random" about Natural Selection, or about nature. It behaves according to well-established natural laws, which have been shown (by numerous people across long time periods and a wide variety of tests) to conform to mathematical relationships. Just because a system is complicated does not mean that it is random, it just means that it is complicated. There is a degree of uncertainty within the system, but this is not randomness, it is only our inability to calculate for billions of interlinked variables. We know this because our prediction of changes to said systems has become increasingly more accurate as we learn more about the system.

As for bio photons, or whatever, the thing about science is that it's an idea; a way of looking at the world. There are scientists who taint the field with sloppy or corrupt data, but these are weeded out by the nature of openness and sharing of data, repetition of tests and so on. As such, I'd be skeptical about any writing or "theory" that is put forth by a small group of people performing limited research. A scientific theory has to be tested and verified by a huge variety of independent observations over a long period of time.

The Theory of Natural Selection is backed up by at least as much (if not more!) evidence than the Theory of Gravity. I don't see outcries about gravity or a heliocentric view of the solar system, even though gravity stands in direct opposition to the Bible. Actually, scratch that, there WAS opposition to that, and I believe that they put Galileo on trial for heresy for suggesting that the earth went around the sun and not the other way around. My point is that now we know he's right, and only quacks, morons and fools would aruge otherwise.

To both of you:

The argument from personal incredulity is long known to be a logical fallacy. Just because you cannot comprehend how Natural Selection works does not mean that it is invalid. There is an absurd amount of evidence pointing to the existence of natural selection, but not one shred of evidence pointing to the existence of any sort of god.

On another note, we might be setting a record for longest running post replies. Which is fine with me, I could talk about this topic until the cows come home. =)

Nick:

Just because you can not comprehend how God works does not mean He is invalid. There is an absurd amount of evidence pointing to His existence. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

As far as the miracles you seek, the dead were raised, the lame made to walk, the blind made to see, and those with disease were healed. Yet many like yourself refused to believe. So it is not proof that you seek my friend, but yourself.

The atheist seeks to exalt himself and take credit for all he does, and in doing so he exalts himself above the Lord his God. Unbelief is the unpardonable sin. For why should God force anyone to spend an eternity with Him that chooses to deny Him. For God did not deny us when He sent His one and only Son to pay our sin dept on Calvary Cross. The unbeliever will stand before God on judgement day, bow before Him, and be judged.

Gar,

I've ignored you to this point because you bring nothing to the intellectual table. You are a fine example of what I said earlier, when I was quoting Richard Dawkins, "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." You are comfortable with believing myths. I am not.

Let me ask you a few questions:
1) Assuming that God created us, where did God come from?
2) There are countless other religions in the world and countless other "gods." How do you know you're worshiping the right one?
3) Assuming God is all-knowing and all-powerful, why did he create flawed humans and then punish them for the mistakes he imbued them with?
4) How do you come to terms with all of the numerous contradictions and absurd rules in the Bible, or do you just pick and choose what you want to believe?

Good luck.

Nick,

1) We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.
To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.
Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.
Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.

2) Many religions may lead to many "gods," but the God I worship sent His one and only Son to reveal to us His Father. Since this God that I worship was willing to die in my place at Calvary, and after rose from the grave, He is worthy of my worship.

3) God did not create flawed human beings. He created us in His image and likeness. Your question should be why did God create Satan, if He knew that Satan would betray Him, and deceive us.

Answer: Just because God knows what will happen doesn't mean that the person (angel) isn't free to make choices. Satan freely chose to rebel against God. God knew this would happen.

Here are some possible reasons why God would create Satan even though He knew he would fall and rebel.

A) It was necessary to have the fall so that God could then have a reason to die for our sins thereby demonstrating that God can and does provide the greatest act of love which is to lay ones life down for his friend (John 15:13).

B) The fall of Satan provides yet another method for God to be glorified in that God can use sin to prove that sin is "bad" and that God's word about righteousness is true.

C) If God is to have creatures with free will, then the risk of rebellion is part of that freedom. Satan had that freedom and used it to rebel.

I know my children will act badly at times, but knowing that does not mean mean that I shouldn't have kids. Part of the risk of freedom is that rebellion will be a reality.

4) I have found no contradictions and absurd rules in the Bible, if you have found some then we could discuss them one by one if you like. :)

Re: Gar #632

Let's talk about physics; but first, let's talk about cause-and-effect. Cause-and-effect requires a time-line; for cause has to come first, and its effect(s) later. Now consider: Time - and therein the time-line - is a consequence of the existence of space. Therefore, causes of anything could not have existed before space (and time) existed. Since the creation of the universe is defined as the beginning of space and time, there cannot have been any cause before it (there was no time for which the cause to take place in). Namely, no cause is necessary for the creation of the universe. This does not outright disprove God, but the following things must be taken into account:

a) If God did exist as a cause of the universe, He must be part of spacetime (necessary for causality). Therefore, He is not Eternal etc, and also, when the universe ends, so must He.

b) If the universe needs no cause, but still has one in God, what is to stop us from saying the same about God?

c) Applying Occam's Razor: Which of the following is a simpler explanation? Firstly, that the universe (for lack of better words) came into existence spontaneously; or secondly, that an unimaginable and super-conscious being came into existence spontaneously who then caused the universe to come into existence. The answer is the first one; God adds an extra unnecessary layer of complexity.

With all of this taken into account, the first explanation is far more likely to be the correct one, and God pretty much definitely doesn't exist in the form most literally displayed in the Holy Books (isn't Eternal).

I'm not trying to convert you or anything like that - I understand that some people need God in their lives to become (again for lack of better words) the best person they can be - but I am trying to show you an atheist's (my) thought processes: to paraphrase Nick, "We are not content to believe in myths".

For those discontent with Natural Selection, but suitably scientifically-minded, I'm going to mention again the book I did before:

"The Plausibility of Life: Resolving Darwin's Dilemma" by Marc W. Kirschner and John C. Gerhart

The scientists who've talked about it said that it pretty much explained everything NS doesn't.

Nick,

You exemplify well the ardor--and shall we say condescension?--of the disciple who has not yet learned the fragility of his faith. Put simply, you don't know what you don't know, and are incapable or unwilling of understanding that there are ideas worth knowing, which have value, which have not yet occurred to you.

First off, the problem of knowledge (that is dealt with by professional philosophers within the discipline of epistemology; I point this out, since you apparently see no reason to burden yourself with ideas from outside your own chosen atheological fold).

You state: "The truth is not subjective and it does not bow to anybody's wants or beliefs."

This might well have been uttered by a Catholic Cardinal, upon setting flame to a heretic.

Please, prove to me we don't exist within the Matrix. How would you go about that? All of your senses have been deluded by inputs directly into your brain, and we are in fact octopuses on Mars.

Then please reconcile this statement with the argument made by Von Neumann (who could just possibly be argued to have been a competent physicist) in his relatively obscure "Die Grundlagen" (only read by serious physicists, nicht wahr?), summarized by Nick Herbert: "From its mathematical form alone, von Neumann proved that quantum theory is incompatible with the real existence of entities that possess attributes of their own."

Phrased another way, nothing "exists" until it is observed, making consciousness an integral property of "reality", which is best understood as an interaction between a volitional agent and an intrinsically unknowable--because unformed--"real Reality".

It is not overstating the case to say that the billions of dollars just spent in Geneva to find the God Particle were spent to avoid the necessity of reintroducing the same religious mystery to science that Newton brought to it back when he was writing his Principia. Newton, by the way, learned mathematics by way of pursuing an interest in astrology. As a secular scientific saint, he was an ideological debaucher.

This eliminates most of the pseudoproblems introduced by amateur and polemical anti-theologians above. I don't remember the rest of the purported problems.

Oh yes, theodicy. Please imagine that you were born into a life where no pain whatever existed. How would you develop a sense of self? I don't think you could. Pain is intrinsic to growth. Pain is "weakness leaving the body", n'est pas, Msr. de la Mettrie?

With respect to Natural Selection, it is only a misreading of the actual theory that prevents the emergence of a wholesale, top to bottom effort to expand it to include actually plausible causation.

Random mutations are random. There is no telos. There is no direction. They are as likely to hurt as to help. There is no larger order we could understand if only our observations or computers were large enough. They are random. What prevents them from being lost, within the conception of Darwin, is fitness. Mutations are occurring constantly, good, bad, and indifferent. Only those are retained that increase relative fitness for survival.

And yet, the commonsensical approach people take to this idea is that biological systems "react" to changing conditions. We see, for example, cases of insects developing immunity to certain pesticides within a couple of dozen generations. This is held to support the Darwinian approach.

But it does just the opposite. If there is no time for chance and randomness to generate the effect with any realistic probability, something other than chance is involved.

We see the argument that the chance against humans evolving by chance is whatever large number to one. Yet, had we not evolved, we could not ask this question. So that objection is a non-starter.

What is much more germane, and directly contradictory to orthodox Darwinism is real time, observable evolution.

Morphogenesis through random chance coupled with random benefit is not even remotely proven. On the contrary, it has either been disproved, or it is intrinsically unfalsifiable as a theory, and hence definitionally unscientific.

The entire output of Steven Jay Gould can be seen as an effort to rescue Darwin, by explaining the absence of countless examples of minor mutations leading sequentially to speciation. But his efforts, ultimately, are implausible, which is why--in my understanding--men like Dawkins are best labelled neo-Darwinists.

That's enough for now. I will say, though, that it annoys me when people like you--who don't know what they don't know--take such an obviously salacious glee in working to undermine the faith of others.

The purpose of the output of Science is Truth. The purpose of the output of religion is social order, and individual peace of mind. Examples of hypocrisy notwithstanding, I see no reason to believe that both do not, on balance, achieve their aims. Fiascoes like the Inquisition and the AGW consensus do not falsify either project, but do point to points of potential reform.

Gar & Barry: I don't have time to touch on EVERY point, but I'll try to hit the main ones. This is still going to be pretty long....

Gar,

Quick point of clarification: time and space, not time and matter. There's a subtle difference.

Point 1. Your response is a dodge, not an answer. If the question is "how did we get here?" and you say, "God made us." Then the natural follow-up is, "where did God come from?" Eternity is the easy way out. I'm also aware that science hasn't answered this question, either. We trace our existence from ancestor to ancestor-species to beginnings of life to formation of solar-system to Big Bang and we're stumped. But the difference is that we are still trying to know where we came from, we're still asking and pushing technology to help answer this question. I'm quite comfortable saying "I don't know, but I'm trying to find out." Religion is quite comfortable saying "we can't know, it's beyond us." Once again, it teaches people to be satisfied with not understanding.

Point 2. You dodged the question, again. Parroting mythology is easy, but it is not an answer to the question. Have you studied other religions, read other religious texts, prayed to other gods, spoken with priests of other religions? Many other religions have deities with the same function as Jesus, and just as much evidence that they actually exist (none).

Point 3. If Satan is the cause of all evil, then man is flawed for being able to be deceived. If God had had the foresight to build in "evil radar" to us, we'd still be in the Garden. But he didn't, so we are flawed. You suggest that Satan's "choice" to rebel allowed for our redemption. If that's the case, then you should be worshiping Satan as well as Jesus, because BOTH are required for salvation! So we're supposed to worship God-- who allows the entire spectrum of human suffering, presumably to help us grow-- but we're supposed to shun the Devil, who tempts us into doing bad so that we'll have something bad to be saved from? It sounds like you're applying a double-standard to God and Satan. As for children, sure, they screw up sometimes. But the difference between your children and God's is that if your kids do something silly, like get mad at you and not want to talk to you, you don't cast them into fire and torture for all eternity.

Point 4. The flaw, the God/Devil and the infinite love/eternal damnation paradoxes are fine examples of contradictions that I find in the Bible. We could also talk about all of the events or statements that the Bible makes that do not match up to observation, such as the idea that the earth is immovable and celestial bodies revolve around it, the suggestion that devils cause disease, that the world was flooded, etc. As for absurd rules, give Leviticus a read. According to that book, you're supposed to stone your children to death if they lie to you. And what's with all the rules on how to properly slaughter a sacrificial animal? Absurd.

Barry,

I'll take ardor as a compliment, but faith is a poor choice of words. Suggesting that I "believe" in science or that atheism is a religion, is the same as saying that you "believe" the sun is bright. I'm talking about an observable universe, you're talking about imagination.

Regarding your comment about the Matrix, you might as well ask me to prove that god doesn't exist. Science does not prove things, science shows evidence for things. An overwhelming amount of evidence can be considered a "proof," even though we have to acknowledge the possibility of another answer. That is the difference between science and religion: religion gives one answer that must not be questioned, science asks questions that we can answer. So, I'm open to the idea that there is a god, or that we are in the Matrix. What I am not open to is blind acceptance. Show me some evidence. If there should be evidence for the Matrix, but there isn't, then we can say with a high degree of certainty that we don't live in the Matrix. Where is Neo, where are the "freed minds," where are the Agents, etc. To talk about god in the same context, where is Jesus, where are miracles, where are demons?

To suggest that nothing exists unless it is observed is a vain interpretation of physics. We change things by observing them, we don't bring them into existence. If nothing existed unless it was observed by a consciousness, then we would not be here, since there would've been nothing to observe and "create" the universe. This is a re-hashing of Gar's argument that "god always existed," only dressed up with fancy quotations and scientific-sounding names. You're suggesting that god is a consciousness that always existed to allow for existence. But, who observed god to allow for his existence? It's turtles all the way down, eh?

Theodicity is non-nonsensical, unless you apply a double-standard of goodness to god and people. Causing suffering for growth has it's uses, e.g.: Crossfit. Allowing the brutal murder and torture of billions of people across hundreds of thousands of years is negligent, at best. Saving a few to take to heaven and reward while the remainder burn in agony for all eternity is sadistic, at best. Eternally torturing, or allowing eternal torture of even one person is evil. If you apply a different standard of goodness to god, then what use is goodness to mankind? If you suggest that goodness is relative, then we can't say that god is good, he's neutral at best, and our entire idea of morality is blown to pieces. If that's the case, then I might as well call him Nature, and get on with my life.

Regarding Natural Selection, you're missing the whole point. You want to see "real-time" evolution, which I assume means "real-time" speciation. You might as well want to see a black hole in real time to acknowledge that it exists. There is overwhelming evidence to support speciation through natural selection. I point to the entire study of heredity and genetics, the entirety of the fossil record and a huge variety of tests and medical phenomena that are plausibly inexplicable without natural selection. Speciation is a logical prediction based on a huge amount of evidence. Just like the prediction that you will be able to recover from a staph infection if treated with antibiotics (Germ Theory of Disease), the prediction that the Space Shuttle will be able to orbit the earth and return to the surface (Theory of Gravity), the prediction that mixing ammonia and bleach will release toxic chlorine gas (Molecular Theory of Chemistry), or the prediction that time will slow down, relative to an outside observer, as an object approaches the speed of light (Theory of Relativity). Can you see a bacteria, watch the shuttle for the entirety of its journey, witness electron exchange at the molecular level or actually move at the speed of light? No. But just because you can't, doesn't mean that those ways of describing the world are incorrect. The same is true for speciation and natural selection. The difference between this and faith is that making the jump from evidence to conclusion requires observation and logic.

My point is simply that if you enjoy living in the modern world, where we accomplish real things with the technologies that science has allowed us to pursue, then you must take science to it's logical conclusion. If you feel like deluding yourself with science-religion doublethink, then go ahead, but don't make the mistake of assuming that it's true.

Finally, Barry, I know quite well what I don't know--I'm not religious. As a scientist, I'm happy to point to a whole range of questions that I and my fellow scientists don't have the answer to, as doing such only furthers my desire to find the answers. You contend that god or some sort of mysticism is real, and all I ask for is evidence. If evidence cannot be provided, then I file your contention away under "unsupported hypotheses," and continue questioning. If some evidence comes up to support your contention, then I address it, revise the hypotheses to fit the data and continue questioning. Thus, I remain a skeptic, open-minded, but not gullible.

As for taking "glee in undermining the faith of others," I take pride in emancipating people from mental slavery. Religion is a delusion that I once suffered, so I know how hard it is to overcome. However, I see no evidence for the need for religion, given our current state of affairs; it is a vestigial organ, carried over from our primitive ancestry and we're better off accepting that it has outlived its usefulness.

Darije, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one on this side still here!

Darije 633,

I think you're on the right track. But I think the options (a-c)that you identify as implied by the sentence: "No cause is necessary for the creation of the universe," require at least one more:

(d) the universe was never caused; has always been.

Just because particular things have causes does not mean that all things as a whole require a cause. Thinking this imputes attributes of the parts of a thing the thing as a whole and is wantin in the same way the following proposition is wanting:

- every member of the Miami Dolphins has a wife,
therefore,
- the Miami Dolphins have a wife.

This is one of Hume's simple responses to Locke and other Deists (those most sympathetic of believers).

We can look at theses about the divine origin of the universe (or the beginning of being) as understandable manifestations humankind's historical tendency to anthropomorphize phenomenon that are not readily observable. Our lives have beginnings and endings, and so we imagine existence has a beginning and an end. When we act , we act with purpose (or most often experience it that way), so we impute purpose to existence and life.

#633 Darije

I agree with you in this point, "If God did exist as a cause of the universe, He must be part of space-time (necessary for causality)." But this fact in no way suggests that God is not eternal. The Bible clearly states that God not only existed before time, but that He is the author of time. It would be like the characters of a book you wrote saying that since they live within the pages of said book, the author must also live there. Just because God took part in creating time, does not mean he is bound by it.

The Bible says that all things were made through Him. You are using human wisdom to in effect limit what God can and can not do, or can and can not be. Sorry, but if you truely desire to define God, you must do it on His terms, and not your own. You must use your own wisdom and not the wisdom you have learned. Since no one can define God apart from God, no one can say He is not eternal. You use the things God has made to deny that His is. You can not do this my friend. If you want to deny Him, you must use something that is completely your own, but this is not possible since even your very existence is not your own, it is a gift from God. So to say you have attained enough wisdom to conclude that God does not exist would be like a child who is placed in an orphanage denying that he had biological parents. It can't be done logically. Surely the child could stomp his feet and demand proof, but that would just be a demonstration of the child's ignorance and laughably quite foolish.

Nick,

You are ignorant. There are clearly genetic correllations over time between species--shared genetic markers, traceable change over time--but this in no respect "proves" causation. Your arrogance is so overwhelming that you are quite obviously blind to it.

As a self described "scientist", please tell me what evidence would falsify random change coupled with random benefit as the sole mechanism of speciation? Darwin himself said when he wrote "Origin of Species" that the fossil record, as it was known to exist then, did not support his theory. It has not improved since then. That is why Gould had to invoke batting averages to explain what was otherwise a fatal flaw.

You are so close to this, so personally enmeshed in this, that you can't see this. I used to have these debates all the time, until I realized that I may as well be debating Jehovah's Witnesses about the necessity of celebrating Halloween. It's a waste of breath, because you are not an agnostic, you are a believer. That you lack sufficient self reflectiveness to be aware of this, is beyond my capacity to rectify.

With respect to quantum physics, could you please affirm in specific and unambiguous terms that you believe you know more about physics than John von Neumann? Maybe you do. You aren't showing it here.

This whole type of debate--the sorts of things Sam Harris, Dawkins, and others want to engage in--has not end game. They have no system of developed morality. They have no basis for shared social order other than "rationality".

That you would on the one hand assail tried and true systems of belief that have led, on balance, to benefical outcomes, and on the other demonstrate profound philosphical illiteracy, is symptomatic, to my mind, that those who would rule through Reason are deeply lacking in that precise trait.

Communism, remember, is "scientific socialism". Barack Obama, Sr. said so.

Gar,

You wrote:

"The Bible says that all things were made through Him. You are using human wisdom to in effect limit what God can and can not do, or can and can not be. Sorry, but if you truely desire to define God, you must do it on His terms, and not your own. You must use your own wisdom and not the wisdom you have learned."

You cannot speak about what "God" can or cannot do, or what are "God's terms" before you have established that "God" exists. Otherwise, you are assuming what you must prove. It boggles the mind to see an argument for the existence of "God" that relies in any way on the Bible. To use the Bible as evidence proving God's existence (because it is the word of God) is again to assume that God exists.

Since the time of Aquinas and before, serious religious thinkers have understood that belief in any specific attribute of God (i.e. mercifulness) is better supported by faith than by reason. Since the time of Descartes and before, the most productive philosophers (read scientists) have operated with the God hypothesis, Amen.

Last sentence #640 should have read: "without the God hypothesis, Amen."

Barry,

Quit insulting people. Make your points.

Nick,

If you are not willing or unable to understand and accept my answers, then why did you come to me for them?

One day I will stand before the God that made us both. The love that I enjoy with Him now and the freedom I have in Him will continue through eternity. This love is real and no one can refute it. It is like the wind, though you can not see it, you can see its effects, and though you can not touch it, you can feel it. This love was first demonstrated when God laid down His life on a cross for my defects, and rose from death to life. He has promised to remove the sins of every man that places his faith in Jesus the Christ. I take Him at His word, and I trust Him with my life. No other religion can compare, and no other god has demonstrated what my God has demonstrated to me. I live my life with a sense of purpose and joy in knowing who I am in Christ, and that He is able to keep me to that day when we shall meet face to face.

To leave this God that I love, to pursue other gods and experience their religion, would be like a man leaving his wife and sleeping with other woman to see if they could love him any more. It would not only be very foolish, but very detrimental to his relationship with his wife.

So I wish you well Mr. Nick, in your brief time spent here on earth. May your life here be filled with much reward for all your efforts. May you live a long and healthy life and enjoy all that this life has to offer a man.

Good Day Sir :)

Newton was a very religious man. Neither he, nor the Scholastic philosophers--including Aquinas--saw any disparity whatever between belief in God, and the scientific method.

That is why it is hypocritical to ask religious adherents to ask that the existence of God be proved, but be utterly recalcitrant in the face of the opposing demand, that His non-existence be proved.

I have often seen this demand--it is not couched as a request: Prove to me that God exist. That is like asking someone to prove that they are intrinsically good. It can't be done.

For this reason, it is perfectly understandable that many choose to believe--to have faith--that there is no final intelligence or sentient cause behind what we can see in the visible universe. They can't prove that, but it is more comforting to believe that there are "Laws", without a Law maker.

And yet, in that they cannot prove their case either, they are being unduly obdurate in insisting on working to the eradication of religious faiths. These groups of people--specific names mentioned above--are demonstrably, patently ignorant sociologically, anthropologically, philosophically, and psychologically. They don't begin to know themselves, much less others.

For this reason, even though I am an agnostic myself--which I believe is the only honest position--I have often stood on the side of the religious against what I have always viewed as intellectually corrupt, mean spirited efforts to create clones of themselves, not a coherent social order, or better future for mankind.

Prole,

I do not need to establish that God exists anymore then a tree need verbally explain to a blind man what it looks like to establish that it exists. It is the blind man that needs to approach the tree, and therefore conclude for himself that the tree is. And once this blind man has felt the tree and experienced the shade from the heat that it provides, he then has no need to explain to other blind man that the tree is real. It is the other blind men that need to come and experience the shade for themselves. All the blind man under the shade of the tree can do is guide his companions to the tree. The relationship between the tree and the blind man is a one on one relationship. To be fully understood the blind man must first come out of the son, and stand in the shade. Once in the shade, no amount of skepticism from other blind men will convince those in the shade that there is no shade and rest from the heat.

So as stand in the shade of my God's Son, forgiven and filled with His joy, and it is very good. I say to you all, come, and see that my God is good.

Peace :)

Grammar and spelling corrections to #644:

"must first come out of the sun..."

"So I stand..."

Barry,
Great post. I agree I don't think it is particularly useful to ask a believer to prove that god exists. I don't think that's how it started on this 645 post rest day. It is useful to tease out the nature of that faith and what it entails for the rest, i.e., how it will affect their behaviour in civil society.

Newton was a deist, God the watchmaker, not God the the water-walker. Believers in the watchmaker fit much better with my vision of civil society than believers in the water-walker. That's because deists tend to put human beings and their needs at the centre of politics and not God and his needs as worked out through human beings.

Gar,

I think you're post at 644 is bang on. The style of your worship is more important (to me the atheist) than the content of your belief. I don't care how you get there (to your faith), provided you worship peacefully. It seems to be working for you. There is a danger though, in the "you have to know it to believe it" type of faith, that those who are no longer blind, feel privileged by God to make decisions for those who are happily blind.

Peace:).

Newton was not a Deist. He read the Bible constantly and was deeply religious. Jefferson was a Deist. According to Newton's own account, his greatest lifetime achievement was never losing his virginity.

This, Darwin's offering of his theory as an effort at theodicy, the mysticism of the quantum physicists, the spiritualism of William James, Osler, and Crooks: all of these, and more, have been written out of the history of science.

American philosophical pragmatism has considerably more to commend it that methamphetamine induced French rants, but its founder believed that mediums could speak to the dead. I honestly believe that is why very few people know of or study William James.

And yet the point of science, in theory, is truth, and truth has nothing to do with club membership. Simply because a theory is popular does not mean it does not need to be torn down to make room for something better.

I truly believe that will happen with Darwin's theory at some point. No doubt large portions of it will remain. The work of tracing genetic relationships is useful. But it is, in my view, grossly incomplete in its explanatory capabilities. It is only because there are no other contestants on stage--allowed on stage--that this is overlooked.

Gar, Barry, Prole:
Thanks for continuing the discussion in a (somewhat) reasonable manner.
Prole, thanks.

Gar and Barry:
I don't know either of you in real life, though you both seem to be perfectly intelligent. Gar, I rescend what I said earlier about you not bringing anything to the intellectual table, though I still feel that you are dodging my questions. Barry, name calling is not necessary and adds nothing to the debate except ire. I'm going to blow off your insults.

I have no desire to pick nits all day about your understanding of natural selection. I suggest you research it a little more before critisizing it. Suggesting that "Darwin's theory" hasn't changed, or that the fossil record has not had meaningful contributions made to it since Darwin's time are suggestions that are plainly at odds with the facts.

The following is what the entire issue boils down to, for me. Mankind is innately curious, about how the world works, how he got to be here, where he is going. Religion teaches you to stop asking questions and to be satisfied being ignorant. Science teaches you to continue questioning, knowing that you may never have a complete answer.

So, when you contend that God created the universe, or whaterver, I ask for evidence. If you cannot provide evidence, then I doubt your contention. If you say that the universe was created in the Big Bang, I ask for the evidence and you provide me data on the CMBR, observations by the Hubble Telescope, and the Theory of General Relativity-- all of which have been shown time and again to match observation and provide accurate prediction of reality-- then I call it a good theory and wonder how we can learn more about the Big Bang.

I'm not content to give up my questioning. Maybe you are. Gar obviously is. But the idea that religion should be used for social order or personal comfort is antequated. It's like suggesting that we should keep the populace stoned because they're easier to control that way, or that a drunk is happier than a sober person.

Either way, we should have respect for each other, even if we don't respect each other's ideas.

Peace.

Nick,

I have questions. Lots of them. Like, why do good things happen to bad people? As far as God's existence is concerned, I know Him, so no need in asking Him to prove that He is. This is faith my friend. It is not merely blind faith as you might suggest, but faith rooted in all I have observed in His creation, and all I have observed in the lives of others that know Him, as well as my own life experience. If you really want to know Him, ask Him to reveal Himself to you.

Re: Gar

You said:

"You must use your own wisdom and not the wisdom you have learned."

Well, that is my "wisdom". That which I outlined above was a logical thought process that I went through, thought up myself - no person, nor book, nor television program taught me it.

Further on, you say:

"If you want to deny Him, you must use something that is completely your own, but this is not possible since even your very existence is not your own, it is a gift from God."

If something is given, ownership passes - if God exists, by gifting me with existence, that existence becomes mine, and mine only. Therefore the logic is mine. So when you say,

"It [not believing in God] can't be done logically."

I'm sorry, I disagree.

Reading your further posts, though, it seems you are at peace with your choices in life; and those choices are both ones which you are perfectly entitled to make, and ones which obviously enrich your life; I am happy for you for this, because I believe that I understand faith as you present it, in a manner of speaking - it is the same sort of faith that I have in the love of my friends and family. My intent was to simply to show you how others think; to show you that we, as atheists, earn the same kind of fulfilment that you do in God through understanding the world in scientific and logical ways.

Nick,

You created a false dichotomy betweenreligion and science. As I stated, some of the greatest minds in the history of science saw no conflict whatever between science and religion. When you attack religion, you create the conflict. There are plenty of committed Christians (and Hindus, Jews, etc.) in the various biological science fields. The two are separate. This does not mean--as vulgar reading of Machian and Popperian texts seem to lead some to conclude--that religion is wrong. It is merely not something that uses the methods of science.

The further argument that only arguments couched in the methods and terms of science merit attention, is a land grab. The words I used, which you took as insults, were ignorant and arrogant. I continue to believe they were used descriptively and accurately.

Take, for example, the phenomenon of love. Using your "Weltanschauung", love is merely a contingent arrangement of molecules organized into hormones, which have a mechanical and predictable effect on the human machine. Depression, likewise, is related to an insufficiency of some chemical that was presumably much more readily available at the turn of the century, when that particular biochemical event was less common.

There is reductiveness to this process, which can appear well intentioned to some, but which manifests quite clearly as an intolerant impatience with the non-empirical.

Most of what makes life living is non-empirical. For this reason, I view honest science as a great boon to mankind, but Scientism--the doctrine on display here--as an unalloyed cultural disaster.

Re: Prole

You said:

"...(d) the universe was never caused; it has always been.

Just because particular things have causes does not mean that all things as a whole require a cause."

I argued that the universe doesn't need a cause. I quote myself: "Namely, no cause is necessary for the creation of the universe." You're basically repeating me. The (d) you mentioned is part of the next step in the logic: If the universe was never caused, has it always existed, or did it just spontaneously begin? I choose to believe that it spontaneously began because current evidence points to a Big Bang, although I will be willing to reconsider if new evidence emerges.

Re: Barry Cooper

You blame others of ignorance, and simultaneously show it yourself.

First, with regards to Natural Selection - the commonly held view in biology now is that of Natural Selection through a combination of both genotype and phenotype; namely, the most determining factor in species survival is environment, because environment:

1) causes unpredictable changes in gene expression - in some cases, the same gene can be switched on, and depending on the environment, can make the occurrence of a disease either more likely or less likely.

2) causes changes outside the genome. Take crocodiles. Their sex depends on the temperature of incubation (environment), despite both males and females having identical genomes. Or the fact that queen and worker bees are genetically identical.

And despite this, you say:

"I truly believe that [tearing down] will happen with Darwin's theory at some point. No doubt large portions of it will remain. The work of tracing genetic relationships is useful."

It has already happened.

As for Von Neumann, do you claim to understand advanced physics as well? May I remind you that one of the five great problems of theoretical physics today (as defined by Lee Smolin, a theoretical physicist for the last four decades - perhaps you know more about physics than him? Perhaps you do, in which case, I ask you to argue with him if you disagree with the following, and come back with the definitive answer.), is to "Resolve the problems in the foundations of quantum mechanics, either by making sense of the theory as it stands or by inventing a new theory that does make sense"? These problems are related to the fact that quantum physics has the contradictions to "reality" that you used to argue, thereby making your argument about the necessity of consciousness null.

... That you would on the one hand assail tried and true scientific systems that have led, on balance, to beneficial outcomes (genetics), and on the other demonstrate profound scientific illiteracy (both quantum physics and NS), is symptomatic, to my mind, that you are lacking in true understanding of how science works in the real world.

We call this hypocrisy, a concept you have used against other more than once today.

Now, Nick clearly stated that he is against religion "because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." When interpreted correctly, that means, he is not against religion as an entity because it contradicts science (he has *not* set up a false dichotomy), but against the aspect of religion that asks for scientific curiosity - and observable truth - to be blunted so that the Godly interpretation can be applied to that circumstance. To paraphrase him would (sorry to assume, Nick), I think, go like this, "Believe in God, he is not inherently contradictory with science, but where science has an explanation, let it be understood that that explanation is more robust." Where is the ignorance in that?

Darije,

You are not wrong and I take no insult in your paraphrasing of my earlier statements. In fact, I offer a sincere gratitude for expressing it with such eloquence; you are an intellectual champion, brother.

To Gar and Barry,

Once, shortly after I was ordained a priest, I spoke to an atheist who I was hoping to convert. He asked me a simple question which as assisted me in my quest for truth ever since. "If you had proof that your belief was wrong and some other way was right, would you change your belief?" I reflected on the question, you might say I prayed over it, and I answered, "yes." Truth is more important to me than social order, contentment, peace of mind, or my status within an organization.

If someone were to answer "no," then I would know that they had a different priority than me. That's not bad, or arrogant, or ignorant, it's just different. I'm willing to abandon atheism and science, and would do so in a heart-beat if I were provided evidence that I am wrong. This search for truth is the reason that I argue my points with such ardor. So, until such evidence appears, I will remain stubbornly skeptical, and you can call that whatever you like, Barry.

It has been a privilage to partisipate in this discussion with gentlemen. If I may pass on but a word or two from my Friend, read on.

I believe no greater words have ever been spoken than these:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." (John 3:16-21)

Gar,

I've got to hand it to you, you're a great Christian, and that is meant as a compliment. I've seen a lot of people flying the Christian flag who insult and pass judgement. You seem to be made of more solid stuff than that, so I commend your civility.

In the end, we're all men (humans), whether we think that God created us from clay or that we are the result of billions of years of chemical reactions. Our differences are less important than our similarities. It is our common good will that allows us to come together and discuss topics as profound as the nature of existence, and hopefully, to grow from those discussions that we might do the most with our short time on earth.

Thanks, again.

Darije: You ask me to answer this question: "Resolve the problems in the foundations of quantum mechanics, either by making sense of the theory as it stands or by inventing a new theory that does make sense".

I can't do that. Neither could von Neumann. Neither, apparently, can contemporary physicists. That is the point. It is a problem for dogmatic materialists, not me. My own belief is that the universe is interactive on some level. Clearly, pool balls move when they are hit with the cue ball. However, the encircling web of causation remains a tantalizing mystery to me.

I will leave morphogenesis through random mutation coupled with random benefit alone for now. This is a necessarily shortened--and off topic--discussion. I have presented approximately 10% of the active information in my brain. I could go much deeper, but I sense now is not the time and place.

We can perhaps agree that Intelligent Design is a non-starter. I have left voicemails and sent emails to the Discovery Institute arguing this. You can't negate a theory without replacing it with alternative, testable, ideas. They have, I think, pointed correctly to the incompleteness of orthodoxy. However, they failed in not providing a scientific alternative. This is ridiculous. It is blowing whistles, and telling 100,000 men to storm entrenched positions across a crater filled no man's land.

To the extent of my ability, I call things the way I see them. I can do no more, and--to paraphrase Robert E. Lee--from myself I can demand no less.

Gar,

Well done. Hang in there. I have no idea if you have an interest in these things, but the argument of Bishop George Berkeley--made quite some time ago--as yet stands irrefuted. All that we know comes through sensory input. All that can be said to exist, exists as a result of observation, understood as involving all five sensory modalities. That which is not observed, exists because of the faculties of an omniscient Observer. The unobserved tree that falls in the woods, exists because there is a God. That is the argument.

He was Irish, so I assume he was Catholic, but I'm not really sure. Net, net: he will give any believer an impregnable theological fortress. Nowadays, they are needed.

Viel Glueck (I don't speak Dansk, although I do have a Danish pipe).

Mr. Nick and Mr. Barry Cooper,

Thank you for the kind words. It has truely been very nice to be apart of this discussion. You are both men of great passion and have expressed yourselves here today as gentlemen.

When I volunteered at the 2008 CrossFit games, I had the same good pleasure of meeting many such people like yourselves. The likes of Bingo (CF main page), Greg Hammond (sold me a Concept 2 rower at the games), Jamie Vomvolakis (Volunteer coordinator), John Brown (Hopper Deck), and big John Welborn (Kansas City Chiefs). There were many others, but these are the names I remember. What a great community of athletes we belong to.

Hope to meet you both in person one day. Fair-winds and following seas to us all.

Gar

Darije 652,

I agree the distinction between my comment at 637 (d) and your earlier one is almost entirely a matter of emphasis. However, as you noted in your comment at 652, the emphasis points to an issue we might disagree on, viz. whether existence has always been, or was caused (of course I've been using the word "existence" and you've been using "universe" - I assume the universe is a subset of existence, though perhaps I'm mistaken - if physicists generally take them to mean the same please pardon my ignorance). I think we agree, however, that neither a positive nor a negative answer to the question of whether existence is eternal implies the existence of God.

Barry,

If I remember Berkeley's argument in response to the ideational epistemology of Malbranche and Locke (which Berkeley deduced correctly could imply a materialist ontology) went something like this:

1) We perceive ordinary objects (books, harpsichords, chamber-pots),

2) We perceive them only through ideas in our minds (idea having "the" meaning given to it by Locke in his Essay),

therefore

3) Ordinary objects exist only as ideas.

I think the above argument is the one that so troubled subsequent philosophers, and not B's argument for the existence of God which he believed flowed from his argument for idealism (Hume had considerable success dealing with B's idealism by positing a triumvirate of epistemological phenomenon rather than a tandem: impressions, ideas, beliefs, rather than sensations and ideas - Hume's skeptical argument wasn't that only ideas exist, but that our ideas and beliefs were the products of mental associations that obscured the object that gave rise to the initial impression).

Back to God. B seems to have thought that once he established that only ideas existed, there could be no way of accounting for those ideas without the existence of God.

1) He argued that ideas were incapable of producing other ideas since they were passive objects of the mind.

2) He argued that ideas could not be the product of his own will because what he called sensory ideas were involuntary - his sensory idea of being burnt by fire was not voluntary.

3) The third option he considered, and approved, was that his ideas were caused by God.

Darije 652,

I agree the distinction between my comment at 637 (d) and your earlier one is almost entirely a matter of emphasis. However, as you noted in your comment at 652, the emphasis points to an issue we might disagree on, viz. whether existence has always been, or was caused (of course I've been using the word "existence" and you've been using "universe", I assume the universe is a subset of existence, though perhaps I'm mistaken, if physicists generally take them to mean the same then pardon my ignorance). I think we agree, however, that neither a positive nor a negative answer to the question of whether existence is eternal implies the existence of God.

Barry,

If I remember Berkeley's argument in response to the ideational epistemology of Malbranche and Locke (which Berkeley deduced correctly could imply a materialist ontology) went something like this:

1) We perceive ordinary objects (books, harpsichords, chamber-pots),

2) We perceive them only through ideas in our minds (idea having "the" meaning given to it by Locke in his Essay),

therefore

3) Ordinary objects exist only as ideas.

I think the above argument is the one that so troubled subsequent philosophers, and not B's argument for the existence of God which he believed flowed from his argument for idealism (Hume had considerable success dealing with B's idealism by positing a triumvirate of epistemological phenomenon rather than a tandem: impressions, ideas, beliefs, rather than sensations and ideas - Hume's skeptical argument wasn't that only ideas exist, but that our ideas and beliefs were the products of mental associations that obscured the object that gave rise to the initial impression(s)).

Back to God. B seems to have thought that once he established that only ideas existed, there could be no way of accounting for those ideas without the existence of God.

1) He argued that ideas were incapable of producing other ideas since they were passive objects of the mind.

2) He argued that ideas could not be the product of his own will because what he called sensory ideas were involuntary - his sensory idea of being burnt by fire was not voluntary.

3) The third option he considered, and approved, was that his ideas were caused by God.

Re: Nick #654

Thank you.

Re: Barry #657

I do not ask you to propose a solution to the stated problem. That is an impossible and stupid demand to make of someone. Rather, I said:

"May I remind you that one of the five great problems of theoretical physics today is to:

'Resolve the problems in the foundations of quantum mechanics, either by making sense of the theory as it stands or by inventing a new theory that does make sense?'"

in response to your claim that:

"...nothing 'exists' until it is observed, making consciousness an integral property of 'reality', which is best understood as an interaction between a volitional agent and an intrinsically un-knowable -- because unformed -- 'Real Reality'," for which you used quantum mechanics as a basis. Phrased differently, I said that since quantum mechanics is not believed to be truly "real" by those who understand it best, using it as a basis in an argument about the necessity of consciousness renders that argument null.

(If you are referring to the bracketed section of text, that was simply because I do not know your profession. I cannot be sure that you are not, for example, a long-standing theoretical physicist; which would in my eyes give you equal power to refute the claim made by Smolin as Smolin had to make it; if this was the case, my point would be obsolete if you could come to the conclusion that Smolin was wrong in his assertion).

Moving on,

"I will leave morphogenesis through random mutation coupled with random benefit alone for now ... I could go much deeper, but I sense now is not the time and place." Fair enough.

Also,

"We can perhaps agree that Intelligent Design is a non-starter." I absolutely agree with you there, and your point that it is ludicrous to refute a theory without a viable alternative.

Until next time, thank you for bearing with me, and good luck.

Re: Prole #659

I think these last few posts were based around a simple verbal misunderstanding, whereby you have used the word "caused", which I defined strictly in terms of cause-and-effect, in lieu of what I called "spontaneous beginning". In other words, where you say "whether existence has always been, or was caused", my equivalent would be "whether existence has always been, or spontaneously began". I took "cause" to mean there was an underlying reason for the creation of the universe, before it came into existence (if it did begin); I showed in my post to Gar #633
I do not believe there needs to be a "cause" like that. I'd be much obliged if you would read back the posts and confirm this.

I believe that for the purpose of this discussion, "universe" and "existence" can be used interchangeably.

"I think we agree, however, that neither a positive nor a negative answer to the question of whether existence is eternal implies the existence of God." Yes, we do.

To you also, thank you, and good luck.

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