HHHHHHHHHHHHHHooooooooRAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

This I can handle...sore all over

I challenge anyone to come join me at Austin's CF Unlimited in Milpitas, CA, for a WOD on Saturday at 9 AM. Bring your own Koolaid.

Great video, I can listen to this stuff all day.

Cool picture.

I was rubbing my little brothers arm today because his skin is so darn soft and he got really mad. He ran to my Mom screaming "Allison is touching me with her BooBoos!". The little thing was tattling on me and I couldn't figure out what I did. I didn't have any booboos! I went back and fourth with him and he kept insisting that I had them. He flipped over my hand and said "look scratchy booboos!".

Poor thing. I was scratching him with my beat up callouses. I'm a terrible sister ;) My hands are great for back scratching though.

I had my mom do 150 squats today. Nothing big but she needs to work on the and I didn't want to teach her the wallball sub. She swam a mile this morning.

that wallball whooped me. . . rest day is greatly appreciated

wallball TIME= 7:21 as RXed

Question for experienced crossfitters...

I'm loving this workout program and crossfit has shown me tons of holes in my game. I need some advice on how to improve pull-ups. Right now I can only do one or two, and then I use the assisted machine to get through the WOD. Any advice???

Looking forward to the day off. Going to play some sand volleyball

nice pic ooooohRAH

#7 Capttboz

What helped me improve the number of pull-ups is I would hang from a bar with an additional 60 lbs attached to me. I made sure that I kept a bend in the elbows while hanging in order to activate the lats. I would hang for about 15 - 20 seconds. I would remove the weight and try to pound out as many strict pull-ups as possible. I did 3 sets of this. You would be surprised at how light you feel after hanging.

I'm sure you'll get other ideas. Try them out and stick with the one that suits you best.

I really enjoy the program as I just started the workouts after Memorial Day. Are there ever going to be any water/swim workouts? I know not everyone has access to a pool, but it would be cool to see especially during these hot summer months.

#7

Do them regularly as part of your CFWU. Get some jumpstretch bands..they will more accurately mimic the movement than the gravitron..They are like anything else...If you want to get better keep practicing. Google "grease the groove"

JB

Awesome video article. The follow up by the police officer is well worth watching as well. I just wish there was a Canadian version.

#11 Mark H.

Check out Crossfit Endurance. It posts WODs for swimming, running, rowing, and biking. However, these are meant to be done in tandem with the CF WOD. Check out the site and it will fill you in.

I have found that even when you replace a CF WOD with a CFE WOD (and do not do them both, as Rx'd) it is still a pretty good workout. I would recommend the interval WODs over the time trials or tempo WODs to replace a CF workout.

Great video - imagine how long it would have gone on if Mr. Duane spoke at a normal speed. I will never talk to the police if I am under investigation for anything.......oh dear, I think I may have just said something incriminating.

Hey #7 Capttboz you have to work on your kip man when I first started Crossfit I could only do 6 or 7 pulls now I can do 30 to 40 in a row. Once you engage the core everything gets a whole lot easier and your back definitely gets bigger and stronger in the process as well. If you can't figure it out on your own find a certified coach in your area, there a ton of great affiliates out there.

Assuming you are innocent, you may need to choose between:

(1) Maximizing the probability of convincing the police that you are innocent.
(2) Minimizing the probability of being falsely convicted.

The innocent want to believe that these two objectives are one in the same; they are not.

Talking to the police may or may not accomplish (1); if it does not accomplish (1), it surely does not accomplish (2), in fact, it may prevent (2).

Not talking to the police may not accomplish (1), but it certainly helps accomplish (2).

You can add psychologists, psychiatrists, counterintelligence bubbas, English grammar teachers, and married women to the list of folks you should never talk to...

I PLEAD DA FIFF!!!

I'm an assistant prosecutor at the county level, and I'll never understand why people talk to the police. Miranda is there for a reason.

Duane's video, if highly circulated, could make my job really difficult....oh...not really...I haven't been doing this too long, and I'm not a detective but just a lowly patrol officer, but I usually know that the guy I'm arresting already committed the crime. I just try to catch them in lies and then turn them on them. That's were it screws up people. Just don't lie....we'll catch you!

For those interested in Coach's bike, I believe it's from DeSalvo Custom Cycles in Ashland, OR. Just down the road from me.

http://www.desalvocycles.com/

Whats up with the video? How does this apply to CF? I dont get it.

#22,
It doesn't have anything specifically to do with Crossfit.
That's the point. We train our bodies to be prepared for anything and we should train our minds with a similar philosophy. Rest days usually have links with all sorts of interesting information and today is no different.
Enjoy.

#7 make sure you arre callenging yourself beyond what you think you are capable of. if the wod was 300 pullups for time and i thought "the most i can do is 10 so ill scale it to 150lb assist (bw 175), so i can get a good time." i would not improve at all. just challenge yourself and im gonna go out on a limb and say f&ck your time. improve yourself
Recently i was blown away by my low scores on CF total so i strayed from the WOD and worked on mostly deadlifts, but aso SP and BS. i know this is against CF theory but it was a goal i wanted to accomplish so i pursued it

regards to the video:
1) i am impressed with the speaker, he is very captivating and i am sure he could convince anyone of his clients innocence.
2) innocent until proven guilty, under arrest until proven guilty

Yay! rest day...wait, I rested today and did some swimming (I suck at swimming). Looks like I'll be doing thrusters 'till Pukie comes to relieve me =)

M/28/61kg

0545

Dead-hang Weighted Pull-up (Supinated)
BW @ 61kg
Chest-to-bar

10 @ BW

5 @ 10kg
5 @ 10kg
5 @ 10kg
5 @ 20kg
5 @ 20kg

10 @ BW

Phew - chest-to-bar weighted is a whole different ballgame!

#21 SCY Re: Coach's bikes

Yes, they are Desalvo.

The principles are very similar in Canada.

Prof Duane says don't talk to the police - you'll go to jail (paraphrased). Great speaker.
As Officer Bruch stated in the companion video - he doesn't try to send innocent people to jail.

These videos likely won't do any harm to police work. People want to get things off their chest and tell their story.

wallballs kicked my arse, time wasn't that great 11:17 but hey i finished and this shiz gets cooler every day!

What is the deal with koolaid? Is that a nickname for something else?

Ever hear the one about what you would call two lawyers at the bottom of the ocean...a good start! Ha Ha just kidding..maybe! In the words of Stan Lee.."nuff said."

CrossFit Should Have a Booklist...
So I just finished the book by Marcus Luttrell entitled 'Lone Survivor.' If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it. One of the heroes in the book, Mike Murphy has a workout named after him on here and it happens to be my favorite - "Murph". So, I'm in the military and my friends and I consider ourselves more or less in shape and motivated. I don't think I could get through the chilling temperatures and physical strain of BUD/S. However, reading his book (which details the BUD/S experience) and ones like it, I gain the motivation to better myself, realizing that one day we could all find ourselves in a fight or flight scenario such as Marcus Luttrell and the boys from Redwing did and it makes me want to get out there and train. It's books like these that make me think CrossFit.com should have a booklist because a huge part of what we try to do is find the motivation to continue improving ourselves. What better supplement than the personal experiences found in a good book? Anyway, it seems hard to find worthwhile books, and I know you all have books or articles you read that inspire you so let's get Crossfit to make a booklist or just email me if you have any you'd like to share because I know there's a wealth of knowledge out there.

#32

I second the book list idea. Its hard to find good material amongst all the crap that is published these days.

45lb thruster sub yesterday - 16:40

Top of my booklist right now:
-Into the wild - 10x better than the movie.
-Survivor:A Novel Chuck Palahniuk- Same guy that wrote 'Fight Club', will blow your mind as much.
-1984 George Orwell- Classic anti-establishment, just started.
-Appalachian Trail Thru-Hikers Companion 2008- Doing the AT next summer or summer after. It's 2,100Miles from Maine to Goergia and takes 5 months.

Prof. Duane forgot one other way you can get fragged - the Supreme Court says the police may lie to you. It is a legal interrogation technique. Suppose you, the innocent schlub, agree with a lie (unknowingly) because you believe the police are your friends and if they said it "it must be true." That can and will be used...etc.

Just have a nice warm cup of STFU. It will make my job sooooo much easier.

Don't start me on books ..!

Sitting here in my study with thighs burning from Karen, looking through my bookshelves. Let's see .... In no particular order:

Bill Bryson - A Short History of Nearly Everything (you'll learn alot about alot!)

Dr Thomas Gordon - Parent Effectiveness Training (if you have kids or not, this is the best communication skills book I've ever read - and I've read alot!)

Nelson Mandela - Long Walk To Freedom (talk about being committed to a cause for the long haul!)

Michael Johnson - Slaying The Dragon (get inside the mind of an amazing athlete)

Steven Covey - The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People (learn how Crossfit is sharpening your saw! You'll know what I mean when you read it.)

George S Clason - The Richest Man In Babylon (Learn how to make your wallet fatter - but not with credit card slips!)

Napoleon Hill - Think and Grow Rich (Need I say more?)

Dr Erik Plasker - The 100-Year Lifestyle (Chances are you're going to live a long time. Learn how to make it quality time.)

Nathaniel Branden - The Six Pillars Of Self-Esteem (Cleans one's emotional closet, completely.)

Jack Canfield - The Success Principles (Learn 64 ways to make life better.)

Loehr & Schwartz - The Power Of Full Engagement (Learn how managing energy, not time, is the key to performance, health and happiness.)

John C Maxwell - The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership (Great for anyone who has to lead anyone anywhere!)

Robert K Cooper - The Other 90% (How to unlock yr potential for leadership and life fulfillment)

Dr John Tickell - The Great Australian Diet, the Atkins alternative (Learn how to fuel your body for success, simply.)

There's lot's more, but that should keep you all going until the next rest day! ;-)

Coach, Lauren:

THANK YOU!

Disappointed that my wink got cut in two ...

;-)

I understand Prof. Duane's point, however, I think he neglects to acknowledge the whole purpose of the police.
Granted, I'm quite aware that it is a bad idea to talk to the police if you are being detained or arrested. This is something that you should have learned in high school civics.
However, I will talk to the police when I am the victim of or witness to a crime. The police are here to enforce laws; to ensure that the courts can see justice done. Without the police to detain suspected criminals, how many of said criminals would show up to court?
Without the testimony of victims and witnesses, many crimes would go unpunished. I would go so far as to say that it is my responsibility as a citizen to talk to the police if I witness a crime or am victimized by a criminal, even if there is a small chance that I could be wrongly accused of a crime.

That, and a bunch of my friends are cops, and I rather like talking to them.

If anybody else wants to send me hate mail about this, feel free. I already got something from "Edward Tracey," for my response to Comment #22. He told me to "cuddle up with a liberal ass book and smoke a joint."

LoL

You mean people actually talk to the police?

Sucker born every minute.

There are lots of great information in these videos.

M/32/6`1/214
-rested yesterday

"Karen" sub,26lbs Kb thruster-release&catch x150
Time 7:33

i do my workouts at a clubhouse for townhomes. i cant do wallballs for fear of causing damage. instead i used a 25lb barbell weight and do thrusters. is this a good substitute?

The legs are a bit stiff today!
Found a couple of small wristsandbags 2*3kg+1*4kg wich workedout great!
6.53

I follow the great WOD´s from sweden!

My girlfriend has scoliosis, does this prevent her from certain activities? She is afraid to do any loads due to the difference in biomechanics. Any suggestions?

TO NICK:

first of all: dont give people like that the satisfaction of being heard.
second: there are many reasons why cops are hated in society, and most of those reasons are from people who have an actual need to fear the LAW. granted, there are police out there who only want confessions, etc. but they are people who risk their lives to help people. if you dont want to confess.... dont.
i think that what the video said was absolutely true, and is relevant to maybe .0001% of actual criminal cases. of course a police officer wants a confession, but a law teacher also wants EVERY CASE to go to trial. because thats where the money is. cops are paid on salary. lets have a little respect for the people who drive 90mph, 24/7 to help US.

dT - way to miss the whole point of the videos.

I can't watch this video yet because the firewall at my Police station prohibits watching videos and other media..(something about some guy sitting in the station and watching CrossFit videos all 12 hours on a night shift) but if you feel like you need to be protected from the Police, move on up here to NJ, where we protect the criminals and make the cops do their job with one hand tied behind our back.

Isnt NJ that extended privacy protection to a persons trash at the curb?

yes - we need a warrant to look in trash

And is it true NJ did away with the incident to arrest vehicle search?

I thought NY was the worst when it comes to liberal courts. Were Texas next to NJ. I feel for ya man.

Comment #7 - Posted by: capttboz

1. Do the WODs as many pu as you can do then finish w jumping pullups
2. Get the big rubber bands (eg 'jumpstretch bands') and train w them on some WODs instead of using jumping pu (variation)
3. Watch all the kipping vids and practice. My wife can do 21 kipping pullups, but still very few dead hangs, after months of practice. If she were only working on deadhangs, she may have made some progress but wouldn't be able to do 21, and wouldn't be anythink like as excited as she is now. Add kipping pu practice to each warm up.

Paul

Interesting video about not talking to the police. I will remember this next time I come to the USA.
The link tot the intervieuw with the policeman did not work for me. maybe someone can give me a hint how to get it playing.

Today's workout: Started with some ring practise, then 15-10-5 of left / right arm KB-snatch + box-jump. time 5:05. Next time I will do 21-15-9.
Finished with tabata push-up.
Have fun, Johan

Interesting you need a warrant to look in the trash. In CA they are going to pass a law requiring transparent trash bags so they can make sure you are recycling properly!

#41 dT

Wallball alternatives:
1) Find a large tree to throw your ball against.
2) To make a homemade wall ball with adjustable weight: You can purchase an "Impact bag" used for golf training for $20. These are made of pretty tough material as they are meant to be smacked with a golf club traveling at 100mph. You can take a medicine ball and wrap it in towels (or anything else unbreakable) to increase the weight. Works great. It also make for a tougher workout because it doesn't bounce back so you have to throw it then go get it every time.

How 'bout this idea....don't commit a crime.

If you're innocent of the crime that's being investigated, and you're still afraid to talk to the police, then you're probably guilty of something else and should be in jail anyway.

I usually don't have a lot of comments, however, these two videos are disgusting. The snake like attorney, who thinks he is holier than God is a baboon and the law enforcement officer should be ashamed of himself for even contemplating becoming a slime ball lawyer. I'm just curious why these are posted and what it has to do with the greatest workout program in the world?

#7, let me encourage you to try out the Armstrong Pull-up Programme. It worked very well to increase my numbers of pull-ups. It requires consistency and dedication, but it will increase your pull-up numbers very effectively. I can now do 21 strict form pull-ups after having been on the programme for several weeks.

http://www.4mcd.usmc.mil/AOP/OSOHyattsville/Armstrong%20Pullup%20Program.htm

#55.. MDMelissa,

Thats not the point. The Professor clearly states that if you are truly guilty then he would want to see you behind bars.

HOWEVER, there have been thousands upon thousands of cases where innocent people have gone through hell because they become suspects, or were convicted when they were innocent...the cases were later overturned. How many more are out there who are innocent and in jail? He points out that many times it is because they spoke to police early on without a lawyer and those statements could be used against them.

I'm not blaming the police. Its simply that the evidence pointed TOWARDS them but not necessarily AT them, and their statements may have pushed the jury towards conviction, even if they never admitted guilt.

A high profile example is the Ramsey family.. what was it 12 years of being suspects and having their lives destroyed even though they (their daughter) were the victims. And now they found DNA evidence of another person in the basement who they think was a convicted sex offender. Much of this came from statements they made while in a certain mindset and trying to help the police find their daughters killers

MDMelissa and GP (#55 and #56), did you even watch the video? Innocent people have been convicted for talking to the police hapharzardly. Talking to the police is not necessary and can cause serious problems. Talk to an attorney and tell your side of the story in court. Not to the cops.

It has nothing to do with whether you're innocent or not - as the video CLEARLY showed. I do not trust police officers at all when it comes to information. Why? Because I knew a few bad apples out there who really did a number on me. Now I know that most cops are not dishonest, but I'm not taking my chances with the ones that are. And there is nothing to keep most police officers accountable for abuse. Nothing.

They can, by and large, do whatever they want, whenever they want. And if they don't like you, they need a suspect, or they want to meet their quota and you are in the right place at the right time, that's it for you, guilty or not. Further troubles can be avoided by not talking to the cops in an interrogation.

#57 (NRG)

"I usually don't have a lot of comments, however, these two videos are disgusting."

Why? Because they tell innocent people how to use their rights to avoid accidentally ensnaring themselves by unnecessarily talking to police officers?

Are you joking? Would you rather live with the Gestapo?

"I'm just curious why these are posted and what it has to do with the greatest workout program in the world?"

NRG, this is a rest-day discussion. We do this every four days - is this your first visit to a CrossFit.com rest day?

THAT DAVE CASTRO IS SPECTACULAR!

I definitely picked up some good interview techniques there. George Bruch spoke from a detective perspective, let me address some things from the patrol side. As patrol officers, we are granted a lot of discretion. I consider it a great responsibility to be able to affect people's lives because I choose to arrest or not. You can potentially alter their career choice in life. Everyone has benefited from a break at one point in time. It may not be with the police, but at sometime in your life, someone has shown you mercy in punishment you could have received from doing something wrong.

Because people talked to me, and because in some cases they were brutally honest-I have cut them a break. Two cases to illustrate how talking can sometimes be beneficial:

I received a call from a motorist who advised dispatch that he had been drinking and pulled over because he was too bad to drive. I get there and the guy is obviously impaired. I ask how much he had to drink, and instead of the normal "a couple or two beers" line, he says "somewhere around six, I don't need to be driving." Could I have loaded him, absolutely, but the guy realized he was in the wrong and instead of continuing to drive pulled over and asked for help. We called him a ride, that guy benefited from talking to the cops and being honest.

Another call was with a couple that were dating and we received domestic calls all the time at their residence. In the past, the guy has been taken for assault time and time again. However, I show up one night and the girl is claiming he beat her and stomped on her and is trying to point out injuries. The guy, who decides to talk to me, offers a much different explanation and convinces me that he is in the right this time. Had he said , "I am not speaking to you without a lawyer present," he would have gone to jail because all I have to go on is the female's statement. In domestic violence cases, the law says I shall arrest if I can determine the primary aggressor. Without his statement, there is noting to refute the female's.

Granted these are misdemeanor cases that I have described. I don't want people to think that all cops are looking to twist your words and arrest you so they can clear a case. There are many out there like me who are looking to find out the truth and resolve the problem. If that requires an arrest, fine....if it doesn't, that is fine too.

#7 Capttboz

When I first joined the Marine Corps years ago I could only get 18 or 19 kipping pullups (back when kipping p/u's were allowed for the physical fitness test) so I practiced every day by doing what we call pyramids. I would start at 3, then do 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3. That will make you very strong. Of course it took me between 30-45 minutes the first month or so of doing them, but eventually the soreness went away and to this day I can jump up on any pull up bar and get at least 20 dead-hang pull-ups. I would add something from the Captain Obvious category, The only way to be able to do more pull-ups, is to do more pull-ups!" Ooohrahh!

M/31/5'10"/196lb.

Dave Hodges

Your first paragraph makes sense but you lose your credibility with the other two.

There is no other common profession that I can think of that holds their employees as accountable as police.

You wrote "And if they don't like you, they need a suspect, and they want to meet their quota and you are in the right place at the right time, that's it for you. guilty or not."

Grow up Dave. Police spend as much time trying to eliminate suspects as we do trying to find them. We shot and killed a man on Wed. morning while he was robbing a hotel and began shooting at the police. He was also a suspect in a double homocide. All the paper could publish were quotes from readers saying the police should have taken him off the streets before it came to this. Based on your beliefs Dave we would have already done that because we'll just make up probable cause.

You are wrong in your thinking.

Ryan

Interesting videos...
Professor was very charasmatic, had good points. If anything, waiting to speak to the police until you have consulted with your attorney will give you the chance mentally to relax and collect your thoughts as to what happened.

The Officer seemed to attempt to almost pull off the same type of charisma that the Prof had. You could see the little bit of arrogance in him, though, when talking about how you can't win an interview with him. He also admitted that they will lie in an interview to get what they want, or enough info to get imply what they want. He also seemed eager to fit in with the attorney based crowd, even saying he may want to become one someday. Almost seemed like an inferiority complex.

I want them to put guilty people behind bars, but by doing actual police work, not by lying enough to hopefully get a correct confession.
I have an acquaintance that will forever be scarred because the police scared him into a confession of a crime he didn't commit. They threatened him with all kinds of things if he wouldn't confess, but told him he could go home if would. He will have a brand on him, for I believe, the rest of his life because the police were so intent on arresting someone. With no evidence whatsoever but a confession. If he would not have spoken with them, who knows where he would be.

First, I have no need to fear the law, so my gripes don't fall into that corner. The majority, and I mean 90% of the time, the officers I have met are outstanding individuals. They're coureous, kind, and conscious of the person they are communicating with. They are responsive and care about the community and the individuals who comprise their community and are willing to risk their personal, safety, and their very lives for others.

But it's the jerks, like any member of society, who comes along in an accusing tone as Johnny-bad-ass, and condems all who are not cops as being scumbag that give the good-guys a bad name. I am so tired of this routine. I've seen it pound people to dust over minor mistakes. I've seen it turn kids into hard cases over loitering.

In other words, there's the good and the bad; it's your observation which determines who and who you do not talk to, but if you think they're on your side if you are accused, falsely or truely, you'd better have a lawyer present, and your only statment should be that requirement.

Dave Hodges, "They can, by and large, do whatever they want, whenever they want."

I've seen this in action too. What's a very real shame is that officers on this board (and everywhere, actually) don't recognize this attitude and actually relate their personal experience when dealing with fellow officers who operate in this manner. They're out there, flasahing their badges when off duty after they've started something in a bar, etc., etc., etc.

But I've also seen the opposite; the true professional hero in action. They're out there too, and yo know what? God love 'em.

It's easy to stick up for peers and easy to lump and trash others based upon experience, but I would sincerely like to see an objective discussion today over this subject versus "our side versus their's"

#32 - A booklist is a great idea!

My favorites:

John Maxwell - 21 Irrufutable Laws of Leadership (mentioned in post #36 - so great!)

John McCain - Faith of My Fathers (it's not about if you like or dislike McCain - forget that. Read about what he went through as a POW, and you become humbled/grateful for our military)

Lance Armstrong - It's Not About the Bike

Asne Seierstad - The Bookseller of Kabul (a must read for anyone headed to Afghanistan - gives a pretty good peek into Afghan life)

Roger Kahn - Boys of Summer (if your a baseball fan)

Gary Chapman - Five Love Languages (I used this with my students last year and it helped tremendously - it's all about communication)

Books....I can't get enough. Last night, I came to the realization that they call them classics for a reason. Some of my favorites, in no order.

Fahrenheit451 by Ray Bradbury - Censorship
Walden by Thoreau- Nature worship
Family Happiness by Tolstoy- Best character study
Death of Ivan Illych by Tolstoy- Death
Nausea by Sartre- Existentialism, surreal descriptions
Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene- Theoretical Physics, sans #
War and Peace by Tolstoy- Best overall book ever, IMO
The Stranger by Camus- Last 2 pages are the best of any book. My favorite part of any book, the quintessential human experience.
Affluenza- Shows us how sick with material possessions we are. Eye opener.
A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson- Like Walden, but less intellectual, more funny.
Baseball Between the Numbers- For stat lovers and sabermetricians.
Why I Am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell- Best testimony in support of atheism.
The Selfish Gene by Dawkins- Evolutionary Biology. Interesting.
Into the Wild by Jon Krakaur- Will make you want to take off into the Alaskan Wilderness. That people like this can die is a tragedy, a true modern hero.
Siddhartha by Herman Hesse- The bitterweetness of life squished into 150 pages.
The Republic by Plato -The book that started philosophy.
Lord of the Rings- nuff said
His Dark Materials by Phillip Pullman- Same reason
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Pirsig- Great overview of the philosophical life.
Crime and Punishment by Dostoyevsky- Best crime book, hands down.
The Counter-Creationism Handbook by Isaak- In case someone tells you the earth is 6,000 years old, or evolution is incorrect.
Moneyball by Michael Lewis- I love baseball.
Cesar's Way- Happy dogs make happy people!

And finally..Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion by David Hume - Brings rationality back into the equation after its vacation.

Maybe we'll start having Crossfit book reports, lol.

"If you're innocent of the crime that's being investigated, and you're still afraid to talk to the police, then you're probably guilty of something else and should be in jail anyway."

You're joking, right? If not, please do not reproduce.

The professor in the video is suffering from a delusion of personal experience. Since he is a crimal defense attorney, it appears to him that it can't help to talk to the police. But, that's only because the only time he's called is when it hasn't helped.

I guarantee that at least 99.99995% of the time, if you have some exculpatory to say, it will help to say it...

The professor was a moderately talented public speaker, but his examples were far-fetched and, ultimately, ridiculous.

Just my two cents:

My dad, grandfather and great-grandfather were New York City and San Francisco cops. One of the first pieces of advice that my dad ever gave me was, "Dave, if you're ever questioned by the police, don't say anything! Tell them that you want to speak to a lawyer, then call me." He followed that by saying, "Look, the cops are there to make arrests, and the prosecutors are there to get convictions. They aren't there to help you out." Thank God I've followed his advice.

You should take a look at the Federal conviction rates. It's around 95% because the majority of defendants do not go to trial, but rather plea bargain. Federal prosecutors practice something called "multiplicity of charges" where they pile on every charge and lesser offense you can think of to intimidate the defendant into pleading guilty to something. If you're looking at 20+ years in prison and losing your family, and they tell you they'll give you two years if you plead guilty, you might go for it.

I'm a proponent of the Patriot Act due to my profession, but it makes it even more important to exercise your rights if you come under suspicion. If you think that being innocent is the same as being acquitted in a court of law, you're sorely mistaken.

Good luck out there!

Dave

An absolute right to silence has been seen as doing more harm than good to society in the UK. Their caution for suspects now contains the following:

"You do not have to say anything unless you wish to do so, but I must warn you that if you fail to mention any fact which you rely on in your defence in court, your failure to take this opportunity to mention it may be treated in court as supporting any relevant evidence against you. If you do wish to say anything, what you say may be given in evidence."

So far as I am aware, it doesn't seem to have resulted in any perceived increase in wrongful convictions there and has been largely uncontroversial since its introduction.

In Canada you can be “detained” without being charged. If you are “detained”, your right against unreasonable detention and your right to counsel etc. are engaged.

However, if you are questioned without being “detained” then those rights are not engaged, and the police need not provide you with a “Miranda” warning. Later on at trial, when the Crown wants to use your words as evidence against you (the words you volunteered without benefit of counsel), they can.

There is often a grey area between what constitutes questioning and detention.

My approach would be to make the distinction black and white early on. If I were being questioned by an officer, as soon as the questions got beyond “what did you see?”, to “what were you doing?”, I would ask the officer: “am I being detained?” on the basis that this line of questioning indicates it is possible the officer thinks I may have been a participant in alleged crime rather than a witness (or may provide the basis for such an opinion at a later date).

If the officer answered “No”, I’d walk away (if I stay, what I say without benefit of counsel can be used against me because the officer and I have just established [for a time] that I am not being detained, but answering questions voluntarily). If the officer answered “Yes” then I refuse to answer another a question until I have counsel present.

Depending on the seriousness of the crime and my proximity to it, I might invoke my right to counsel immediately.

I'd probably start the whole transaction by asking the officer if he knew the 90's HBO show "Homicide", and if anyone on the force was as brilliant as Detective Frank Pembleton.

I highly recommend the book: Mistakes were made .. but not by me. Relevant to today's discussion is Chapter 5 - Law and Disorder, which focuses on wrongful convictions, on how these errors occur and why police officers, prosecutors, and judges choose not to correct it.

http://www.mistakesweremadebutnotbyme.com/html/criminal_justice.html

J1 #73

That's interesting. It seems to me the added warning in the UK merely makes explicit what would be true anyway. The prosecution can use any relevant (admissible) evidence against an accused. Includeing that statement in the initial caution to a person being questioned could have the effect of intimidating that person - it may sound as a threat. The statement doesn't change what will be relevant and admissible at trial, but it might change the psychology of the person being questioned.

Makes me nervous.

He or she might hear: "talk now or you'll be found guilty later."

Comment #65 - Posted by: CP Rich 28/5'8/165

Wow, you really don't pay attention do you? The officer doesn't have any kind of inferiority complex. He plainly stated that if he brings someone in he does it because he has something that would indicate they are a suspect. As for saying, "he may want to become one some day." Officer Burch is a 3L. That means he is in his last year of law school.

I understand your prejudice against the police from what happened to your friend, but that was the point of the video and what they were BOTH saying. Plead the 5th and make them work for the conviction.

Missed "Karen" yesterday so this morning we did:

200 wall ball shots (granted, it was with an 8lb Danskin ladies "med ball" that is a lovely shade of lavender...sigh)

200 push ups.

22:20

rest day haiku:
My legs burn like fire.
I am happy its rest day.
Tomorrow comes soon.

Lot of great discussion here today, and it seems like people get both sides of the picture: many officers out there are being honest and doing the best they can, but because of those who might not be, SHUT UP when you're being questioned.
#62 Laramy - it sounds like, in cases where people have chosen to talk, you've truly understand the point of the discretion given to officers. Keep up the good work.
#74 Prole points out the "grey area between what constitutes questioning and detention," and advises "to make the distinction black and white early on." Exactly.
Finally, this sort of reasoning applies to searches, too. If you're pulled over for speeding, and the officer asks, "Can I search your vehicle?" Simple - say "No, thank you, officer." Oftentimes, people pulled over for minor infractions end up being arrested because they allowed a search - it's not "if you're innocent, you have nothing to hide;" it's your right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure.

Cardio......35 minutes

73 & 76

I think the point about English law (minor point, except to Crossfit scots guys, is that Scottish law is very different to English law) on right to silence is this: if you shut up when arrested/questioned, but come up with a defence at trial, the judge will direct the jury that they may draw an "adverse inference". The right to silence is maintained - and the prosecution has to prove its case even if the defendant does not make a defence - but if you change a story, make up a story or decide to speak after all, you run a risk that the court is against you.

Anyways..did 150 wallballs this morning 8kg (heaviest one the Virgin globo had, and it has is plasticy with handles that almost broke my thumbs when receiving the ball. 8 mins). then 5-5-5-5-5 bw presses.

#74 Prole - curse you! I've just spent 10 minutes reading old Homicide plot lines. It was on NBC, by the way. I couldn't afford HBO in those days.

I loved the videos. I think the professor was correct in his assessment of the situation.

My take: Law enforcement is carried out by human beings. Human beings, especially those that are overworked, underpaid, and frequently in stressful situations, are likely to make mistakes. You, by virtue of the Bill of Rights, have been given control of the situation. You should not relinquish that control under any circumstance.
If you do, you are stupid (according to the officer).

re: comment 13

Things are very different in Canada. Police do not advise suspects that they have the right to remain silent...only that they have the right to consult a lawyer. So many people plunge ahead without consulting a lawyer and make statements they later regret. (Of course, the first things any lawyer would tell his client is not to talk to the police.)

An even bigger difference is that Canadian courts regularly accept evidence that was illegally obtained. Exclusion of tainted evidence is not automatic. It is left to the judge's discretion to determine if the police misconduct was so egregious that it "brings the administration of justice into disrepute." Often, there is no such finding. The judge contents himself with a verbal wrist slap. He deplores the illegal police misconduct -- then goes on to accept the tainted evidence and use it to convict.

Finally, Canadian judges and prosectors are unelected. And in some provinces suspects have no right to a jury trial except for serious criminal offenses.

So much for the myth of wishy-washy, feely-touchy Canadians.
Canadians suspects have far fewer rights than Americans. But most Canadians don't know this. They watch American TV shows and think they have Miranda rights. They don't.

BTW, the Canadian violent crime rate is two thirds lower than the US rate. And the incarceration rate is also much lower.

Coach and Mrs. Glassman, thanks for the links, I'm always amazed on rest days at how you seem to find the 'right' articles to provoke discussion (arguments). I normally take a peek just to gain a few more bits of knowledge that maybe useful in the future. For today's links I must say I was more than impressed, and I'd like to say a few things.
However, I will not comment on:
-The moral qualities of the professor and detective involved, because I don't know them.
-The moral qualities of people who use/don't use their rights included in the fifth amendment, because they are not me.
-The moral and professional qualities of other police personnel, lawyers, judges, voters, etc. because everyone has met every different type (good and bad).
I will comment on how informative both videos were on the misuse, use, and nonuse (is that a word? probably not..) of a constitutional right by the people. I can say that my opinion on the use of the 'fifth' was either "oh, they must be guilty" or "oh, but it is their right...they must be guilty." Which it shouldn't have been. I like the part were the professor points out that the fifth amendment was made to protect the innocent. I think that I sometimes forget that taking advantage of our rights does not make us guilty or less of good citizen. It simply means we are using what our constituition has allowed us to use (thanks for that). Another good point was that of the jury of your peers not fully giving you the innocent until proven guilty environment in court. As disturbing as it sounds, how can I argue with it as my stance was that 'taking the fifth' implied guilt. So that was pretty eye opening.
This is what I end up taking from today's post:
-Know your rights.
-Use your rights.
-Crossfit rocks.

Ryan (RTC, #64): "Your first paragraph makes sense but you lose your credibility with the other two. There is no other common profession that I can think of that holds their employees as accountable as police."

You are incorrect. For a civilian to charge a police officer with misconduct, the plaintiff must prove that the officer was acting in "bad faith". This is almost impossible to do. Officers can lie, plant evidence, cheat, and harass, and as long as they say they were "just doing their job" it is unlikely that any disciplinary action will befall them. In a court of law, it is their words against yours and short of video or audio evidence to the contrary, the judge will always side with his officers. Period. Fortunately, in some cases somebody has video evidence (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/YouTube_video_exposes_cop_who_attempted_0730.html) but that is rarely the case.

"You wrote 'And if they don't like you, they need a suspect, and they want to meet their quota and you are in the right place at the right time, that's it for you. guilty or not.' Grow up Dave."

I wouldn't say that if I hadn't seen it happen numerous times. Again, do all cops do this? Heck no! But there is a loud minority of those who do, and because of them it is never worth it to talk to police officers. Never. I've seen plenty of great, honest, hard-working cops that I am happy to pay my taxes to give them salaries. And I have seen a few really rotten, dishonest crooks with badges that make me ire. And as long as the law is on my side that says I never have to talk to the police, then I will exercise that constitutional right because I don't want accidentally to trip myself up by saying the wrong thing that could land me (at best) more time in detention, extra charges, &c. or (at worst) an incorrect conviction of something I didn't do.

"You are wrong in your thinking."

There is a reason the founding fathers gave this freedom to the people. And it's because they knew that one day people like you would be oh-so-happy to try to remove this freedom in the name of "just doing my job".

M/22/6'1"/185

Punishing myself for my bad wallball time yesterday.

"Heavy Big Five 55"
Bench Press @ 205
Back Squat @ 245
Pullups +45
Box Jump @ 40"
Deadlift @315

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 for time
41:37

That'll teach me

#79 - Senator

Very well done! I like the rest day haiku.

Great photo today. That dude is put together.

As a sensitive crimes detective, I could have a lot to say about today's video. I just do not have the time to address it in full. So, in short, I would agree with the message.

There will always be an adversarial relationship between cops and defense attorneys. We each have a job to do. While I might not like them (quite encompassing statement, I know) professionally, I understand their position. I, personally, would never talk to the cops.

As a police officer, I always hope a suspect invokes Miranda and declines to provide a statement. It makes my police report easier to write. :-)

#69
Just my observation but it looks like you read a lot of books to support your position of atheism and evolution but not a lot of books to challenge your perceptions.

NRG(# 57),

"...the law enforcement officer should be ashamed of himself for even contemplating becoming a slime ball lawyer."

Lawyer jokes are one thing (and I find most to be somewhat amusing), but to infer that all lawyers are slime balls? Really?

Attorneys that freely give their time to low-income people with legal questions/problems? The lawyer neighbor that helps out the guy next door while having a beer and chatting over the backyard fence? Prosecutors that help keep the streets safe? Public defenders that make sure we don't live in a police-state? JAG's that advise in-theater commanders on real-time decisions about "good targets / bad targets", and help our troops to follow the Laws of Armed Conflict? The patent attorney that helps "Joe Blow" assert his inventors rights against a multi-billion dollar, multi-national corporation?

All slime balls, I'm sure.

Freddy,
that is by far the most honest and uncluttered statement made on the board today...Beautiful brother

#89 Freddy

That is another major point I left out. I agree completely!

Jon #69,

I was glad you mentioned Crime and Punishment by Dostoyevsky.

It's an interesting counterpoint to today's discussion because the main character commits a horrendous crime, which eventually he confesses to. And he does so for a deep human need for redemption.

It's an amazing book.

Marge: "Homer, are you licking toads again?"

Homer: " I'm not NOT licking toads."

Awesome video.

Rest is SOOO needed.

Dave Hodges

I never mentioned the video or its contents so don't discredit yourself by writing "people like you would be oh-so-happy to try to remove this freedom in the name of 'doing my job'."

As a supervisor I remind my officers all the time that it is not about us it's about the people we serve. The verbal confession is some of the weakest evidence that the D.A.'s Office can present in court. We always obtain further evidence.

Can officers lie? Yes but not in the facts of their case. I worked undercover for 9 years. By definition that's a lie. I spent a decade telling drug dealers that I wasn't a cop. Officers can not plant evidence, harass or "cheat" (?). If they do they're held more accountable than you ever would.

I guess the reason I care so much about what you're writing is because it's the good hard working citizens that make this job worth doing and I imagine the people here on Cross Fit to be that way. If you or anybody else don't want to talk to the police when your a suspect or witness that is your right and we usually don't care, but remember that we have done more to protect and respect that right than most.

#90, bill,

How many books have you read this year that challenge your perceptions?

Watched both videos... Interested by both sides.

Starting the Police Academy in a week and a half, can't wait!

The first thing he says is "I will never talk to any police officer under any circumstance".

Great opening statement, everyone standby and watch the criminals get away with everything. Or don’t standby, but just keep walking. This guy belongs on an info-mercial…oh yeah he’s selling the idea of hire-a-lawyer to the world.

Life is never black and white, there is always some gray. Sweeping statements are almost always foolish advice to take. Blind faith in justice is also a mistake. Use your head and think about what statements you make before you make it. Use a lawyer if you think you really need one.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Criminals get away because witnesses want to ignore what's happening around them and don't stay to give statements to the police. Unfortunately, it’s often because they don't want to be inconvenienced. This leads to the downfall of society.

#80 – Yeah they got arrested during the search of their car because something was found and…they were not innocent. So I guess there was something to hide.

I did a big road trip and got search by customs. I'm thankful they thought I looked like criminal. They found a banana that was in zip lock bag for way too long. It was way back there under the seat. Had it popped, my truck would have stunk for the rest of the trip. Thanks Customs.

This was a well earned day after that unforgiving "WALL BALLS" HOLY SHIGHT!!!!!

Got a tick bite/Lyme disease recently. Just discovered it yesterday, saw the doctor, and started on antibiotics. Is it okay to continue to work out?

Can anyone offer legitimate medical advice?

Any would be appreciated.

Ryan (RTC, #96)

Please don't misunderstand me. If everything you said above is true, then I don't know why you disagree with the contents of the video.

"Officers can not plant evidence, harass or 'cheat' (?)"

Some of them make a career out of it. I am glad that you don't. I am even more glad that you train your subordinate officers to be honest. And I realise that the majority of officers are not out to get people. But I also know that there are enough out there that do not follow your guidelines and people suffer over it. And that alone makes what the men said in the video worth following. I am all about cooperating with law enforcement if it's a matter of justice. But there are ways of accomplishing this without civilians' having to talk directly to the police.

KWB_Fish, #99 "Great opening statement, everyone standby and watch the criminals get away with everything."

Wow, it's almost like you only listened to the opening statement and ignored everything else. Criminals will get caught by their own mistakes and it doesn't take removing innocent people's freedoms to catch them. Removing people's freedoms in the name of "security" is what leads to the downfall of societies.

Re-read the purpose behind the fifth amendment. And if you think the fifth amendment is bad, I'm sure many communist countries would love to have an American emigrate to their country. There you won't have such silliness like the Bill of Rights.

Recent Favorites:
Into Thin Air - John Krakauer
Five Years to Freedom - James N. Rowe
One Bullet Away - Nathaniel Fick
Lone Survivor - Marcus Luttrell
TM 1-1520-237-10*

*j/k

#94 blades-

Along with redemption, I had the impression he confessed (and played with the police) just for human contact. He was so disconnected with reality, he would sacrifice his freedom for attention AND redemption. Is he a normal guy, or a villain? I work in a prison, and let me tell you, lots are in between. Although there's gray, the distinction is still there.

Is there anyone who takes an L-Glutamine suppliment? I would like to hear oppinions if you noticed change in anything please.

-dave

#7

Something that has worked for me to get better at pull-ups was something I did when I got into rock-climbing. I did a pre-set number of pull-ups on the minute for half an hour. So, start the clock and immediately do 1 pull-up. At the end of the first minute, do a pull-up. At the end of the second minute, do a pull-up... etc... Continue this for half an hour. I was cycling my grip when I did this. I went with tight, wide, shoulder, back, and curl.

Tight: palms away with hands one inch apart.

Wide: palms away with hands wider than shoulders

Shoulder: palms away with hands shoulder width

Back: palms away, hands a little wider than shoulder, and finish the pull-up with the bar touching the back of your neck

curl: palms toward you, hands shoulder width.

I started out doing 2 a minute and within a month, was able to work up to 6 a minute. Those were dead-hang pull-ups (this is long before CF). At that time, my one-set max of dead hang pull-ups went up from about 5-6 to 30+.

Like everyone else has stated, the key is consistency. Be patient and keep chipping away. If you stick with it, by the end of the year, you'll be a pull-up machine!

Good luck!

Hey Jim (#18)

Experimental psychologists are okay -- they're like computer scientists and philosophers. It's the clinical psychologists you've got to watch out for.

Did Karen today:
15lb Med ball (the heaviest the gym had)
150 shot
4:58

I did a modified Elizabeth yesterday:
4x rounds of
95 lb snatches 21-15-9-5
Dips 42-30-18-10
Pushups 21-15-9-5
I forgot the time but I was happy with it.
A little cardio in the morning and a rest day sounds great.

dT: Thanks for the tip about jerks. I tend to be pretty argumentative, mostly because I find it entertaining. Usually.
And I agree with you that we should have respect for law enforcement officers, as we should have respect for laws, even if we don't always agree with them. We should also respect our rights and be happy that the Founding Fathers had the wisdom and foresight to build protections for the innocent into the Supreme Law of the Land.

#90, Bill:
People were suggesting a book list. Instead of implying that #69's perceptions are inferior and should be "challenged," maybe you could add your suggestions for a reading list. I don't know if challenging perceptions is as noble a thing as people sometimes make it out to be. How about we-- on all sides-- just keep our minds open?

CAC 83,

I watched the whole series on DVD in 2004. Might almost be time to do it again (seasons 1-3).

Dave Hodges, you watch too much television. On TV the routine is for cops to get in a shoot out, drive off, get in another shoot out, never write a report...plant evidence, beat suspects...that's television, its not reality. Criminal activity by cops has of course happened, but not nearly enough to be considered a major concern of the citizenry. On TV yes, in real life, no.

I was disappointed by the cops video, only that I led myself to believe it was going to be a rebuttal, not just a "what he said".

Freddy C is right, in that in nearly every arrest, the cops know you did it, they have the goods on you already, and they aren't really interested in hearing your BS.

Regarding the lawyer's position, never say never. If you are that one in a million person who gets hooked up for something they didn't actually do, and you have an alibi, you are an idiot not say what it is. "No, I don't want to prove to you this instant that I didn't do it and be let go, I want to go to jail and wait there until my trial starts, hire a lawyer, go into debt...."

Lone Survivor - On the same subject, next April there is a book coming out about my unit, 2nd Battalion 3rd Marines, about the follow-on mission to hunt and destroy the Taliban and Anti-Coalition Militia responsible for that day. It's called Victory Point and you can find more information about it at www.victorypoint.info . It tells the story of the victory we won on a week long battle in the same mountains where these great men were lost. It comes out April 7th, 2009. It takes a turn for the better, as this is the story of a victory. I helped with some pictures and stories for the book, and as far as I know I do have a little blurb in there! Thanks Ed!

Wow...lots of discussion over a basic Constitutional right.

I'm also an officer, and I can tell you that I agree with both the lawyer and the officer in the video. While I think it's a little extreme to say "never speak to an officer under any circumstances", I can see the viewpoint behind the statement.

While I was in the Army, I was a military police investigator. The rights advisal / waiver form (DA Form 3881 at the time), which had to be read to a suspect and signed before questioning, says the word "lawyer" 17 times. I know....I counted it. Yet, in conducting over 300 criminal interrogations, less than 5 percent of the people I advised of their rights actually invoked them. The other 95% willingly waived their rights (in writing, no less) and agreed to talk to me. Rarely did I leave the room without a confession after that. And I am confident in every way that I never talked someone into confessing to a crime they didn't commit.

Frankly, I think the whole "false confession" thing is a bunch of crap. If I knew for a fact that I had not commited a crime, there is NOTHING an officer or detective could threaten me with that would get me to sign a confession. Nothing. I would make them PROVE it in court.

Which leads me to my second point...it never ceases to amaze me how many people can be informed of their rights, acknowledge those rights, and then talk anyway. I can only ascribe it to human nature. You are being told that you don't have to talk...you are being told you can have a lawyer (who will then tell you not to talk)...yet most people talk anyway.

Really, this whole thing is not a discussion about police at all. It's a discussion about a lack of knowledge.

I enjoyed both videos and learned from each. The best comment was from the attorney, "anything you say to the police can and will be used AGAINST you in court, that means if you say anything that can be used to help your case, the prosecutor will object to the police officers testimony as "hear-say"!" It seems that if you are in a position to be accused you can only hurt yourself by not pleading the fifth!

#69 If you truly are promoting those "classics" and many of the titles suggest that atheism is the logical conclusion one should come too, what difference does it make whether one is guilty or innocent and who makes the judgement between right and wrong in the first place? Doesn't justice become somewhat arbitrary without a true Judge and an ultimate code of right and wrong?

why in the world would crossfit post something about not talking to the police? Im a Cop and just want some place to go without having to deal with the liberal bull crap. Crossfit should be unbiased and should not have political or moral views (or atleast keep them to ourselves). Im dissapointed. Just wanted to exercise, but i guess the smut shall continue wherever you go.

I'm glad we have the right to remain silent. I wish more people would exercise it!

Here's a couple of great clips about Olympic weightlifters.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/weightlifting

I particularly loved the ones by Melanie Roach and Casey Burgener. These two athletes are examples of what men and women can be. Casey got the shaft, but I'm proud of him. He's a well-rounded person, and we are lucky to have his dad/coach overseeing the O-lifts for Crossfit. It sucks when administrators keep athletes from competing. I'm not going to assume I know what he is going through privately, but publicly his reaction to this has been noble.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/olympics/20080808-9999-1s8olylift.html

Best of luck to Natalie at the games!

As a police officer for 8 years, I can tell you that James Duane, while entertaining and technically true to his own words, has NO IDEA how day to day police work solves and exhonerates persons. I, without bias, can tell you that more people are cleared of crimes than convicted because honest citizens tell the truth and speak to the police. He can use as many big name criminals in prison as he wants to illustrate his points. All the while you need to remember they're CRIMINALS to begin with and only speaking to the police did not get them incarcerated. Their crimes did.

Rest is goooood....

I'm only a little sore from the weeks WODs but I feel stiff all over. I feel like taking a hike or something to help me loosen up.

#115, Jeremy,

Interestingly enough, Professor Duane is a professor at Regent Law... far from liberal, he's one of the more conservative professors in his field, at THE most conservative law institution in the country.

Also, the subject matter of this lecture pertains to an issue where libertarian-style conservatives and liberals opinions converge.

What's really interesting to me about this lecture is the reference to one of his former students... none other than Monica Goodling, the apparent sacrificial lamb in the investigation into politicization of the Justice Department, who proved to be smarter than those who put her on the chopping block..

Zach

Man, that's awful about Casey Burgener. He's one of the reasons I was so excited about watching these Olympics. (My brother trained with Casey's brother.)

My best wishes to Casey and the rest of the family, and good luck Natalie.

pleepleeus, #111

"Dave Hodges, you watch too much television."

Hilarious. I do not own a television, never have, and never will.

"On TV the routine is for cops to get in a shoot out, drive off, get in another shoot out, never write a report...plant evidence, beat suspects...that's television, its not reality."

My observations with police officers are not based anything on television but with personal experience and the experiences of close friends. And I'm not talking about their never writing a report or the stuff you mention above. I'm talking about all the unethical things that some police officers do to get what they want, and that includes lie, intimidate, plant evidence (yes, it's happened before).

"Criminal activity by cops has of course happened, but not nearly enough to be considered a major concern of the citizenry. On TV yes, in real life, no."

You have got to be out of your gourd if you think that cops rarely engage in criminal activity. Move to Atlanta, where I live. It's a way of life. Every year, the APD is mired in scandals because of all the things I mentioned. Again, you are the one who watches television. I don't even own one.

"I was disappointed by the cops video, only that I led myself to believe it was going to be a rebuttal, not just a 'what he said'."

If you don't like the Bill of Rights, write to your congressman and ask them to remove them for you. I'm sure that some of them would be happy to oblige you. And whilst you're interested in giving up your rights, you may also want to turn in your guns, get a national ID card, get a chip in your hand, and register your DNA with the FBI (for your own protection, of course).

And I think it's rather humourous that you accuse me of watching too much television whilst the majority of police officers and prosecutors commenting here agree with me, and not you (#19, #72, #88, #89, #113). Maybe police officers watch too much television?

On the topic of books:
Richard Marcinko, Rogue Warrior

Talks all about his time with the Navy SEALs, SEAL team 6 etc.

#111 Pleepleeus,

I think that you are missing the point of Freddy C's post. I think that what he is saying is that if people don't talk about anything then he doesn't have to write anything other than "subject exercised Miranda."

I think it was meant in a spirit of trying to get a laugh as Freddy is always good for a laugh.

M/23/150 GregAWu

Did "Mary" to work on my pistols (or "shoot the duck" as my GF calls it) and HSPUs (weak points) and because I have to take tomorrow off.

AMRAP in 20 min of:
5 HSPUs
10 Pistols
15 Pullups

7 rnds + 3 HSPUs

Oh yeah also did:

AMRAP in 60 minutes of: Not talking to the police.

Good sound advice, God Bless America (and the Constitution and its amendments)!

Friday WOD

Dig out 10 old fence posts in concrete...off day my ass.

could not sit still

ran 16 100m sprints

#115, Jeremy:
Crossfit isn't promoting these "political or moral" views. They're just presenting them as a way of sparking discussion and and building community on rest days. There's been a lot of interesting articles and videos linked up here over the past few months. I haven't agreed with them all, but it's nice to know that there are other opinions in the world and I enjoy the opportunity to discuss them with other members of the CF community.

#114, Jay M:
It's a fallacy to think that ideas require an external source to be important. Ideas-- such as Justice, Right and Wrong, Truth, and so on-- exist internally, within the human mind. What we do with those ideas is particularly relevant to us, as they determine whether people will suffer, or will be protected from suffering.
Ideas are created in the human mind, which is either a construct of billions of years of evolution or the gift of a beneficent god. The ultimate origin of those ideas is irrelevant to the fact that manifestation of them creates or prevents suffering.

The first CrossFit Fantasy Football League filled up so fast that I decided to start another one. If your interested and you were one of the many that were excluded sign up here:

http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

and search for custom league (#346265) password: 321go

Hopefully everyone gets to enter who wants to play!

Dave

I was puzzled because Officer Bruch didn't really counter the motion at all. A better counter-argument might be that right-thinking members of society should support the police and should help them where possible. They risk their safety to protect ours.

The harder you make it for police to eliminate you from enquiries, the less likely it is they'll catch the perps. You're arguably frustrating their work and facilitating the bad guys by needlessly tying up resources.

It might be sensible to look at how other jurisdictions draw negative inferences from silence. You can stay silent but not use the right to cynically frustrate a bona fide investigation. That seems to be what the bad guys are doing. Weighing up that evil against a perceived greater risk in wrongful convictions, looking at the experience of other jurisdictions, it's not quite the no-brainer many here seem to think.

I'm surprised to be in a minority who might be in favour of a reduction in this personal liberty, where last week, I was in a minority arguing for what I would term a far more fundamental right of habeas corpus for Gitmo detainees!

Adam #82, sorry for sloppiness. Scotland is of course a different jurisdiction.

The fifth amendment is there for a reason. It is the prosecutor's responsibility to prove you guilty. It is the police officer's job during an interview to acquire statements that will help the prosecutor do that. Whether you are innocent or not, why would you want to potentially incriminate yourself? It is easy to be misunderstood every day. It is easy to twist a statement into enough information to make you a likely suspect and hold you in jail. The police can make up anything they want to get you to say something. They are not required to tell you the truth. By keeping your mouth shut, the full burden of proof falls on the people that the law says it should, the prosecution.

I like cops, I'm not a criminal and I love it when the guilty get busted and go to jail. Regardless, I'd lawyer up in a second if I was being interviewed as a suspect for anything.

Ahhh rest day. My legs are sore from yesterday. Only WOD I got in during the last cycle.
Really appreciate the early posts when they've been popping up!

#97
Ether
Honestly? Not as many as I should!! :-)

The fifth basically forces whomever is trying to prosecute you to have to prove your guilt. So it maintains you "innocent until proven guilty" and if you say nothing, nothing you say can be taken out of context and used against you. And as a innocent person that is what you are trying to avoid, whether mistakenly done or maliciously.

And unfortunately the first ones that know this right are the true criminals.

Remember, you may have to use the 5th if you get swept into an internal affair's investigation and you are innocent of what they are investigating.

It works for everyone, including police officers

I got my rings yesterday and took them over to my gym to attempt some muscle ups. There's definitely a technique to it; getting the head out over the feet at the critical moment. Took me 4X to figure that out then cranked out 10. I'm happy...and gonna rest for the rest of the day.

Did the Dumbell Snatch and Pull-up WOD, but I don't have a 45 lb. Dumbell, so I used my 55's. Yeah, it was hot, humid and heavy... good stuff.

26:10

I remember a few weeks ago someone posted a comment about the WODs becoming mundane due to the frequency of bench mark WODs. I'll admit that I agreed with the post, but since then the variety has been outstanding. Thanks, Coach for the great program. 22 months in and loving it.

#128 Nick

Thanks for your response, but I respectfully disagree that the idea of absolute justice and truth can be derived from the human mind. Humans by nature are selfish and self-seeking, and left to ourselves we will only derive arbitrary truth and justice. We are all created with a sense of morality for sure, but that sense comes from Him who made us. I agree it is left up to the created to "manifest" those ideas and revelations, but look at the many diverse ways our world chooses to exercise "human justice and truth", who's to say which is absolute but the One who originated that truth.
I'm not contending for any particularly religious belief system here, just that our finite minds are limited by experience and understanding when it come to matters of justice. We must have a Moral Code (or Law) superior to and with more authority to rightly judge right from wrong.

#113: I think you are fooling yourself. After enough pressure and time nearly everyone will confess to something they did not do. It happens alot easier than anyone would think.

I don't know if you have personally got an incorrect confession or not. I just know it is really easy to get one.

Maybe you are in the tiny minority that actually can stand firm under pressure. Don't get overconfident in that though.

A complicated kindness by Miriam Toews
We so Seldom Look on Love by Barbara Gowdy
Microserfs by Douglas Coupland is a great book too
What We Believe but Cannot Prove is a really good one for people who like to be skeptical
Finally for any other geeks out there Steven Eriksons Gardens of the Moon is a good fantasy novel

A warning though, I read a lot but I'm the person who has Joyce on his shelf but has never been able to make it through more than the first 20 pages of Ulyses (tried several times)

We'd like to welcome Professor James Duane, he's been in the basement eating chocolate-covered coffee beans for the past 45 minutes...

Daniel,
I suggest you review the Canada Evidence Act regarding admissible testimony. Canada does have very detailed guidelines pertaining to what statements from an accused may be admissible in court. You are not entirely incorrect about 'the right to remain silent' however Canadian police officer are required to advise people that they are not obligated to say anything however anything they say may be used against them.
The biggest problem with the blanket message both the officer and the lawyer send is that NO ONE should talk to the police. If you are innocent and being interviewed as a witness please do talk to the police. The courts can only convict if the evidence is beyond reasonable doubt or if there has been a violation of your rights. There are far more guilty people found not guilty than innocent people sent to trial.

#7

I hope you read this far. Look at the videos on this site for kipping Techniques. Then go and do the following WOD: With a continuously running clock do one pull-up the first minute, two pull-ups the second minute, three pull-ups the third minute... continuing as long as you are able.

Use as many sets each minute as needed.

Sounds silly but it worked for me. It alows for you to focus on form at the beginning stages without rushing and you just get better as it goes. Try this WOD 2-3 times in the up coming week and that should strengthen your pull-ups.

good luck!

Dave Hodges - the mere fact you equate my disappointment that the cops view was just a parroting of the lawyers view, with wanting to get rid of the Bill of Rights, is just plain loopy. You're clearly not all there, so I will now exercise my right to pretend you no longer exist.

Jon Brown in #123 - Now I am confused. I got Freddy C's post 100%. I just added to it. "I got all I need, I don't want to have to write your BS too." I'm down with the point and the humor.

#84 - Daniel Freedman
You said, "Things are very different in Canada. Police do not advise suspects that they have the right to remain silent..."

Reading the standard Police Warning is part and parcel of reading the Charter rights to a detained or arrested person.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (in short) warning is; "You have the right to retain and instruct counsel without delay..."
The standard Police Warning that goes along with it is; "You are not obliged to say anything but anything you do say may be given in evidence."

It has the same effect as Miranda.

You also said, "An even bigger difference is that Canadian courts regularly accept evidence that was illegally obtained. Exclusion of tainted evidence is not automatic. It is left to the judge's discretion to determine if the police misconduct was so egregious that it "brings the administration of justice into disrepute." Often, there is no such finding. The judge contents himself with a verbal wrist slap. He deplores the illegal police misconduct -- then goes on to accept the tainted evidence and use it to convict."

If the judge "deplores" the police conduct they are more likely to throw out any evidence gained unless it "brings the administration of justice into disrepute" by excluding it. For example where's it's so obvious that the evidence points to the accused that to throw it out would bring public outcry.

Why, if your innocent, would you not give information to law enforcement that would clear your name? To provide proof that you are not quilty of said offense? To allow law enforcement to focus thier efforts on the actual offender?

a. because you are guilty
b. you know who is guilty and are protecting them

Now you end up in court. Your found guilty.
Oh well, guess you should have talked to the police.

It appears under this attorneys argument that you are/can be just plucked from the cops phone book and are accused. Obsurd. Well, he's doing a fine job of playing up the peoples fears of the police in the new liberal world of victimization.

Jay M:

I appreciate having the opportunity to discuss this topic with somebody who is not a mindless drone. Many people shy away from this topic because of fear.
I contend that humans are not entirely selfish and self-seeking, though we all possess those traits as necessary to our individual survival. We are social animals who have evolved complex mechanisms for cooperating and interacting. If you subscribe to biology, we have been social creatures living in small groups for a much longer time than we have been living in large cities. Small groups of individuals work together, but compete against other groups. Competition with the out-group is where we see atrocities manifest, while cooperation within the in-group is where we see nobility. It is from this dynamic that our sense of justice and morality is born, not from some exterior being.
That is, if you subscribe to biology. I do because there is so much evidence in favor of it.
Regarding truth, how do you know what is true, if not by evidence? Even if you were to tell me that you know a creator exists because of a feeling, that feeling is still a form of evidence. We should know from experience that some evidence is more credible, reliable and relevant than other evidence. I see no credible, reliable or relevant evidence for the existence of a creator, unless you define "creator" as "natural laws of the universe."
Thanks for keeping up the discussion with me, even if it was off-topic for the day. In the end I think it's less important what you believe, and more important how you live those beliefs to the benefit of others.

upper is not sore at all

lower is completely sore all over

THE TODD, #145 "Why, if your [sic] innocent, would you not give information to law enforcement that would clear your name?"

Why, if you watched the videos, would you ask a question that was answered every which way over and over again?

"To provide proof that you are not quilty [sic] of said offense?"

Nothing you say that positively clears your name can be used in a court of law. Only negative things. All such things that give you a positive testimony will be considered hearsay.

"a. because you are guilty
b. you know who is guilty and are protecting them"

Or maybe you're innocent and don't want to give them anything that could lead to:

a. a false conviction of you.
b. a real conviction of you for a crime you didn't know you committed.
c. a trial where you have to answer charges for things you didn't commit based on a coerced statement at the behest of the police officers.

"It appears under this attorneys [sic] argument that you are/can be just plucked from the cops [sic] phone book and are accused. Obsurd [sic]. Well, he's doing a fine job of playing up the peoples [sic] fears of the police in the new liberal world of victimization."

Huh? This is not about fearing the police or playing the victim. This is about talking to the police in the presence of an attorney, and preventing people from becoming victims of haphazard speech that incriminates them accidentally.

And you're doing a fine job of toeing the totalitarian line of the Utopian neo-con police state that our current lawmakers are doing everything to make a reality.

Nick

I am all for scientific evidence, its what I do. As an eye surgeon, I use it everyday. I also see some of the awesome displys of our Creator everyday both in the human eye and in the world around. I do think this is also relevent to today discussion, since no justice system is complete without a true sense of justice. No judge or police officer is given the authority to enforce laws unless those are commonly accepted as right for a society, and no society can be governed unless there is a Higher Law of right vs wrong. You enjoy that freedom and grace of having a higher justice in America whether you believe it or not. (That is believe that our country's laws are founded on a higher law)

I've been on the job for 6 years now, and if I was even remotely involved in something criminal, I certainly would NOT talk to any police. If I thought I was even remotely a suspect in a case, I would NOT speak with any police. Yes, people, we are doing our job to identify and develop suspects. But, seriously, stop the crap about how corrupt you think we are. I have never, not in 6 years, witnessed an instance of abuse or criminal activity some of you think is commonplace. That is just ridiculous.

Dave Hodges, you're fears are overblown and kind of have the tone of hyperbole. Of course, you live in Atlanta (I lived there 16 years) and that is a different animal. APD suffers from severe, and I mean SEVERE, underpayment. Combine that with access, mix in a somewhat lax ethical environment, and yeah, you may get a disproportionate instance rate of malfeasance. What, like, 5 or 6 people out of a department of 1200? The thing is, when they go sideways it captures a disproportionate amount of attention and makes people think the problem is pervasive. It is not.

However, in the same Metro region you have departments (Cobb County PD comes to mind) that have impeccable (and deserved) reputations. You make qualifying statements, but clearly you are painting with an extremely broad brush. Too broad, Dave. Way too broad.

Here in Seattle, our city PD has a civilian oversight committee, a director of accountability and another panel to oversee them. Umm, SPD does not have a freakin problem. What it has is a panicky, asinine populace that sees the Civil Rights boogeyman in every shadow. The end result? They now have a PD that does not want to work. They blow off calls and often make it a point to NOT see anything illegal in their presence. Why? Because they get complained on for anything and those ridiculous complaints get waaaay too much attention. Their police have de-policed and the people want to wonder why their burglary call takes 2 hours for a response.

Back on point: Why do suspects (guilty, innocent, I don't care) waive their rights? Beats the living bejesus outta me. Some people just wanna talk. Some actually have consciences, I guess. Me? I suffer from neither affliction and wanna talk to my lawyer right now...

Dave Hodges

Why did you write that I disagree with the video? GO back and reread what I wrote because never once did I disagree with the video.

GO ahead and push your agenda but get your info. in line.

Freddy C.,

That was the most spot-on assessment of actual patrol work I could have hoped to read. Thank you, God, when the mopes decline to talk. Less writing, less time, less hassle. Usually, we have enough other stuff without the interview.

Next call...

M/48/152

Crossfit Strength Experiment Week 1

Buy in: max handstand hold (supported)--1:10

12-9-6 Thruster 105#
24-18-12 Pull-ups

7:35

Cash-out: DL 155# (BW) 21 reps.

Ryan (RTC, #151)

I apologise for misrepresenting you. It was my understanding that you disagreed with the contents of the video, but reviewing you comments, I was seriously mistaken to have drawn that conclusion based on what I read.

Scott Andresen (#150)

Thanks for the response. I do not think my "fears" are overblown in the sense that what some people are expressing in this thread are the same sentiments that were used by people like Stalin, Hitler, and other totalitarian regimes. Policies were enacted to "protect the people" that removed their rights entirely. If somebody tells me that the fifth amendment should be repealed so that we can "get the bad guys", they need to take another look at where that kind of system of law eventually leads.

Yes, I do frequently speak in hyperbole. But it's pretty obvious in most cases.

Jay, #149,

The preponderance of widely divergent religious, spiritual and ethical traditions that come to essentially the same conclusion regarding rules for coexistence actually supports the argument that ethics are not derived from any source other than the instinct for survival.

Cultures that do not develop a code of laws or rules to support the continuity of their lifestyle are destined to failure. The degree to which these codes are scalable is a factor in their longevity as well.

Your assertion that humans are by nature selfish and self-serving is simplistic and limiting... but even in this narrow scope, history has proven conclusively that the self-interests of individuals is best serve by banding together in large groups and federations governed by codes and laws.

You can choose to look at morality and ethics as the sole product of a deity, but good luck backing up that perspective with anything other than your desire for it to be so.

Zach

45yom
5'-6"
168 lbs.

Subbed 16lb medball
25x6
11:07

Dave #105

I've been supplementing with 10 grams microionized creatine and 10 grams L-glutamine post-workout for about two months.

I do not have any quantifiable measures of their application, but I do notice I recover MUCH quicker than I used to and generally feel better all around. The supplements are not expensive and are no-taste!

Best of luck!

By all means, please exercise your right to remain silent. It makes my job easier and makes the night go by alot smoother. If I have pulled you over or placed you under arrest, I already have enough to write the ticket or charge you. Everything else is just static.

Great video. . . does this only apply after Miranda rights have been read? Should I refuse to talk to a police officer when he pulls me over for speeding? Seems like if you refuse to speak, can't they then "Bring you in for questioning" which could involve a lot more hassle?

OH MY GOODNESS! I have been teetering with needing an extra rest day/s but have been having fun and getting some new personal bests and, well, its just more fun to workout.
Anyhow, I did the squat snatch/pull up combo the other day, followed by