Very Nice Photo :>) strong work!

I just watched the Crossfit Los Altos In-N-Out Fran, ooohhh I would be a DNF on that one, 12:21 is an insane time on that WOD, wholly smokes, here you can check it out for yourself, I would have met Pukie for sure:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_InNOutFranEdit.wmv

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

Ideas on the weight of the tire?

Rest day Noooooo! I am too excited about exercising now. Can anyone give me a suggestion for something to do if I want to exercise today. Thanks. 1 week of Crossfit as of today. :)

I wanna see the vid of him doing a C&J to get the weight up :)

Very cool pic!

is it just me or does he look really 'tired'?

Tony

Sorry, I had too

Does anyone have any directional benchmarks for what the ratio should be between your deadlift and back squat?

I would also be interested in ratios for deadlift to front squat to squat clean.

I know it is all relative. Just looking for some directional guidance.

thanks.

I had a tire that size at my last fire station. It weighed about 220.
Need feedback on my workout. 20 kettlebells at 54 # every 2 min for 20 min. Just like dumbell bear, you can rest for the unused portion of the two min.

#3
Check out crossfitendurance.com for their WOD

#3 - take the rest day, your body will thank you.

Stop it dude, you're scaring the Army guy on the right.

good ol' ANGLICO

Happy Birthday LJ!

Anyone else have an issue with receiving the bar after a jerk? I have a major problem with multiple jerks with heavy weight because it HURTS to bring the bar back down and reset.

I totally blew the jerks tonight. I've discovered another weakness... Jerks. CrossFit is always giving me things for to work on. Thanks

I'm going to give a heavy Grace a shot tomorrow. Maybe 105? It will be good practice. I want to do it with 135# one day.. a girl can dream right? :)

I need a rest day.. lower back is still trying to adjust to the ridiculous workouts

How do you get the tire up?

The low carb people lost 5 kilos and the low fat people lost 3.5 kilos. The 3 pound difference in weight can be attributed to higher glycogen and water retention in the high carb group. Anyone who has gone low carb has experienced the sudden drop in weight that is attributed to water retention (1 gm of glyocgen holds 2 gms of water). So really the weight loss is about the same, perhaps the high carb people actually lost more body fat. Can't tell without body composition testing which they chose not to do, perhaps because the study was sponsored by atkins.

Another point for paleo dieters. For the low carb nonrestricted calorie group "the participants were counseled to choose vegetarian sources of fat and protein."

#3- Row a 500 & stretch. Rest up for the next cycle of WODs. A lot of people burn out or get injured from over doing it early on.

RE: Tire Pic - No Way! If he got that up himself, I would really, really like to see video: I'm not putting it down, even if he had help it is awesome, but if he got that up top by himself I really need to see how he did it, that is some feat of strength, power and balance!!

AllisonNYC - I feel ya on the Jerks. There was no noise on the way up and lots of grunting bringing it down and trying not to break my collarbone.

#3- I'm with all the other folks who tell you to take a rest if you have followed the schedule for the last few days. It might not hit you right away but overtime overtraining will catch up and bite you hard enough to make you take weeks off rather than just one day. If you really must do something work on your flexibility or technique using a broomstick or something.

#15 - Bill: You have a whole bunch of guys lift the tire up, then you get underneath it, then they back away for the photo :)

Comment 3: Milli:

Perform 50 reps each of the following movements with a dowel/broomstick:

Press
Push-Press
Push-Jerk
Thruster
Deadlift
SDHP
Power Clean
Back Squat
Overhead Squat

#16, u should check out the book "good calories, bad calories"

I did Atkins in '03 and lost 15 pounds or so. I found a similar Journal Article back then that actually showed lower levels of LDL and higher levels of HDL in the Atkins group vs. the Low-fat group. It was published in '03, and I think it was also NEJM or something. Heard about it on NPR and looked it up.

Forgot to mention, but I had someone at work ask me today if I had shares in CrossFit. I guess I must talk about it quite enthusiastically :) It made me laugh.

Jack and others:

I encourage a thorough read of the article. It is really a seminal piece in the field for several reasons--and one of those reasons is NOT the minor, statistically significant weight loss benefit seen in the low carb group.

No, the reason this study is important is b/c it is the first large-scale randomized trial appearing in a major medical journal to conclude that a relatively high-fat diet (ie, a low carb or Mediterranean diet) will not adversely affect important cholesterol parameters. This has been the major caveat (from a medical perspective) against low-carb diets for the past half century. (I would advise any skeptics to read Gary Taubes "Good Calorie, Bad Calorie" for a truly in-depth look at the issue and the way the public has been systematically mislead to believe that a diet high in fat will cause heart disease and numerous other maladies).

One aspect of the paper does stand out though: the conclusions are very conservative, especially in view of the evidence provided. They conclude by saying that the more favorable effect on serum lipids with a HIGH FAT diet should ALLOW personal preference when choosing a weight loss plan. Thats all well and good, but what about the blatant contradiction between that finding and what the "establishment" has been feeding us for decades about high fat diets causing cholesterol/heart disease?

No one will seriously challenge the efficacy of low-carb diets with respect to weight loss; they are effective, but like any diet the reason they are not effective in the long term is their unsustainable nature. So, CrossFitters, never mind the minor weight loss advantage of low-carb dieting. The real good news lies in the fact that this diet will promote non-fat anabolism and increased energy levels, without unduly increasing the risk of cholesterol associated disease.

Thank god a rest day. Too bad I'm going to use it to perfect my OL techniques. Been watching Coach Rip's vid's. I think if I could nail the technique on the squats and DL's I'd increase my 1RM by 50+#'s. Still wont over do it though. Shoulder hurt all day after the Push Jerks.

First, Atkins and low-fat diets are unsustainable over the longterm because it takes a lot of work to do correctly. The zone is the same way. In theory, it works. If done correctly, in real life, it also works. BUT AND THIS IS HUGE BUT, the zone is hard work. You have to really limit yourself and weigh out your food,etc etc. Taking a break and getting something quick usually messes up the plan.

Second, from what I understand, the low carb diet used in the study was based on Atkins. The study used a diet that only restricted carbs, but not anything else. Just recommended not too much fat and limit trans fat. Atkins diet had calorie restrictions as well as carb restrictions. People just didn't eat enough food. The low carb diet is almost a cross between atkins and the zone - eg high protein, high fat, low carbs.

Third, the discussion talks about how the med and low carb diets can be used as alternatives. Diets NEED to be personalized but also easy. They said it might be easier for a doc/dietician/whoever to implement their low-carb diet. People would basically just avoid sugar but still eat when they wanted. It's easier to monitor sugar levels than your entire diet. It may not be the best - but most people aren't looking for elite athlete health, just being healthy is good enough.

Fourth, the major point in the entire study is that there are many diets people can choose, but for any of them to work they have to eat in moderation. It's a cardinal virtue and it's the truth.

i was wearing the some outfit he has on the other day

That looks old school carnival strong man!

Nicely done Younkins, I would agree with Corey Post #28, Carnival Strong man, plus I bet you smell like cabbage.

In a commentary on this study, Dr. Dean Ornish commented on two things. First, in contrast to Matt_in_Oz's characterization that the solution was eating in moderation, Ornish said the Mediterranean style group ate 10,000 calories/year more than the "low fat" (is 30% of calories by fat to be considered low? If so, why don't they call the Zone diet a 'low fat diet'?) group, but still lost more weight. Ornish says "That's not physiologically possible." So he questions the results of the study based on that apparent contradiction. Well, it's not possible to eat more and lose more IF his assumptions about food are correct - I'll give him that point. "The Never Ending Diet Wars"(http://www.newsweek.com/id/146641/output/print).

He also makes some comments on cholesterol, to wit HDL and LDL numbers don't correlate with his research about actual longevity. High HDL and low LDL is considered good in the medical community, but Ornish says that HDL could just be high because the body needs more of it to 'get rid of the trash' from a high fat diet, and thus it does not confer health benefit in all cases, particularly when associated with a high fat diet.

Would anyone who's read "The Cholesterol Myths" be willing to comment on this critique?

Ornish quotes a bunch of other benefits he's documented from his non-profit research (meaning it serves his ego at least, and his desire to do good medicine at best, tip of the hat to him if that's the case) on his 10% calories from fat diets (see article above). Would be curious to know if anyone that read "Good Calories Bad Calories" can comment on whether Taubes critiques Ornish's work.

I'm raising a glass to that low fat wonder diet, the Zone - Paul

AllisonNYC comment 13,

What hurts on the receiving portion of the rep, your chest/clavicles or your wrists? If it's your chest/clavicles, get your elbows further forward/upward when you are receiving, this makes the bar hit the meat of your shoulder rather than the bony prominence of the medial portion of your clavicle. If it's your wrists, getting your elbows through quicker helps with the angle of the wrist. Let me know if this helps.

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

93 and still a spitfire!! Gotta love Uncle Jack!

about time for the scientific study to show the real results..

Billy # 31:

It's definitely my clavicle. I have great wrist and shoulder flexibility so that not a problem. I don't think I have any of this meat that you're talking about. The bar hits probably the only bone on my whole body that's not covered by fat or muscle. How inconvenient.

I've tried bending at the knees to absorb some of the shock and trying to puff up my chest and all of that but nothing short of dumping the bar after each rep has made it any less painful.

So are you saying that I should bring my elbows forward like in a clean? I'll try it. It's funny because I don't really have this problem receiving a heavy clean in the same place. Those jerks left me with some serious bruises on my chest.

Thanks Billy

Paul is on the mark with his statement. What we are looking for is a "long term" solution that can be incorporated into one's lifestyle. Adherance to the diet is a BIG issue with the average population. We know the Med' diet has been shown to reduce all cause mortality and I have been a proponent for a few years now. Here we see that it has a favorable lipid profile, the appearance of a reduction in hyperinsulinemia, and can show as much long term weight loss as the Adkin's diet within the standard deviation.

As a general rule, I adhere to the Med' diet (bad family history of CAD!) with less starches than would be recommended because of individual issues, and the need for more fats which come from monounsaturated sources (app 35%). I would be interested to see Zone studies if anyone can direct me.

30 Paul,

You quoted Ornish as saying eating more calories and losing more weight is physiologically impossible, but also brought "Good Cals Bad Cals". Also, Ornish seemed to treat the study with a strict Atkins diet and with negative stereotypes. He wrote "Most people associate an Atkins diet with bacon, butter and brie". Obviously, that approach won't work. It's like weight watchers eating nothing all day to save up their points and buy mcdonalds for dinner. It fits the plan but not the intentions.

From what I've picked up as a medical student, the key cholesterol points are having low total cholesterol but also the correct ratio between the two. He is misleading when he comments on people who eat high fat diets and then have high HDL to "get rid of the trash". They do increase HDL, but that same person also gets a bigger increase in LDL - and their total cholesterol is goes way beyond recommended limits.

The zone isn't really that "low fat". The regular food guides say don't go over 30% energy from fat - but basically that lower is better. Doesn't the zone say to aim for 30% fat, as in, 30% is optimal.

That's not an army dude on the right!

Thank God for rest days. Go on R & R in the next few days so I won't be doing much crossfit. Going to try to fully rest up.

So what's the take-away here? That high-fat diets are not inferior to low-fat diets and, in fact, may be superior?

The big problem I have with these one-size-fits-all diet solutions is that they completely ignore an individuals metabolism which seems to be the single most important piece of the puzzle. Fat sticks to my ribs like tar. My body just likes to put on weight. As a result, I seem to put on muscle fairly easily. A great friend of mine is a rail and cannot put on much weight even while eating much more than I. So how do we most effectively rev up (or retard) the individual metabolism?

35 David, there are lots of studies comparing the diets. So many that I'm sure you can find one saying that each of them is the best. I haven't read beyond the abstract but here is the first link that came up. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17341711

There are more links to published studies on the right hand column.

For the large majority of the population, the best long term diet is quite simple: Eat a wide variety of food. Lots of fruits, veggies and lean mean. Limit (but no need to eliminate) fats and sugars. And don't overeat, just what you need. If you are a crossfitter trying to win the 09 Games, you might want to tweak that, but in general the entire population could be a lot more healthy quite easily.

Also, as Jack Lalanne said you need a good diet AND exercise.

#3 i am just like you. i have been doing crossfit for seven weeks. on rest days i just listen to my body. if i feel like doing something, i usually go for an easy run(2-4 miles) or jump rope so i can say i did something.

#3 Pico
take the day off, rest, stretch, take it easy and get ready for tomorrow wod, i'm pretty sure is gonna kick ur butt. your relive at engine7

That dude reminds me of Gordon Liddy :D

Wow in-n-out fran is the coolest. That is way more hardcore than firefighter fran and swat fran. I would definitely have a hard time finishing those and holding em down.

push jerks: 115,165,185(2), 175. stopped due to wrist pain
felt bad so punished myself with:
100 deadlifts @ 135lbs for time- 7:08

M/21/175

Somebody needs to submit this picture to CAPT Pickens...

I used to be a fat guy. When I started to eat less carb, I started to drop fat easily, but I experienced one more interesting thing. When I was fat and ate lots of carb, I was always hungry. As I changed my eating style, I started to be able to control my appetite and I do not want to eat so much. I think eating too much carb messed up my insulin sensitivity, and it is restored now. Also, I had high blood pressure which was restored within several weeks. I am also healthier and stronger now.

aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh. Much appreciated.

Awesome video featuring Jack Lalanne.

"Exercise is King, and Nutrition is Queen"

Excellent!

Am I the only one that is very sceptical of the article after it used the BMI in the opening paragraph? Anyway, just stick to basic (i.e. non processed) foods and keep up the training, jm2s.

Also: Never trust a statistic that you haven't forged yourself.

Hope he doesn't get tyred.

There seems to be some confusion on the diets specified in the test. The low-fat and Mediterranean diets were calorie-restricted but the low-carb (Atkins) diet was not. Participants on the Atkins diet self-selected their portions, so there was not the same pressure to moderate total caloric intake.

Regardless of whether the weight differences were due to retained glycogen and water it is significant that the group that was not restricted with regards to total caloric intake did not lose less weight over 2 years than two groups that were restricted. The fact that they lost more weight is just gravy. ;-)

Re diet:

Macronutrients (protein, fat, carbohydrate, water) and micronutrients (vitamins, minerals/trace elements) must all be supplied for optimum nutrition.

As others have posted, for the majority of people, simplicity is the key to consistency.

So, for what they're worth, here are my diet tips that I give all of my clients.

Keep (portion-controlled) carbohydrate intake to the morning, when the energy from those carbs is most likely to be used during the day.

Make lunch a mixed protein/carb meal such as a chicken salad wrap.

Dinner is a high-quality protein with a load of vegies. 75% of your plate should be filled with vegetables.

Eat 15+ different fruits or vegetables every day.

Drink 35ml/~1oz for every kg/2lb of body weight. When you're active, add 500ml/~14oz for every 30 mins of exercise. (More if it's the F50!!)

Minimise/eliminate sugar/caffeine/diet drinks/sports drinks/other junk.

Use a super-green drink to alkalize - especially when working out intensely.

Eat real food as much as possible. Hint: if it's got a label, it's not real food.

This approach reduces insulin sensitivity, inflammatory response, obesity, depression, etc., etc., etc.

And add some nuts and seeds...

I was just looking through the comments from yesterday's Jerks and noticed that a lot of people were starting ~100#s less than the weight they wound up with for their final set. I could understand this if it's your first time out or you have no idea how much you can jerk and are just feeling it out, but isn't the idea to have 5 heavy working sets of (a barely attained) 3 reps each (after a thorough warm-up, so the 5 sets shouldn't be warm-up weights)?

I know everyone wants to set PRs, but doesn't that approach rob you of the strength/power developing work the WOD is supposed to supply?

I've approached the heavy oly days both ways, and starting heavy is HARD, but is it smart/good?

Does anyone here keep a training log online? What, if any, sites do you use? I am a web developer and I just started CrossFit two weeks ago. I have been thinking of developing a site tailored to CrossFit training logs, and I am looking for feedback from the community. So far I have been keeping a log in spreadsheet form on Google Docs. I found http://www.logsitall.com, does anyone use that site? What would be your "wishlist" for a web-based training log?

Ok....what is the story behind this picture?

m/35/220/5'11

Finally caught up today!!!

2k Row 9:04 (Monday's w/o)

Push Jerk, 3x5 135-155-185-185-190 (Tuesday's w/o)

Also, I haven't read this article yet but has anyone heard of "The Abs Diet"? As I have read the book, it's not a diet per se, but a way to incorporate the nutrients, fats, protein, etc into a healthy and easy eating style. I described it to someone who said it was kinda like The Zone. Any thoughts?

I am a physician 'crossfitter'/'zoner' and recent avid 'freak' about diet as it relates to my overall health and performance goals. I am also a noted 'pariah' among some of my colleagues in recommending zone-like diets to my patients (I am a vascular surgeon so deal with mostly diabetics, obese, atherosclerotic pts.) I was therefore very pleased to see this publication in the NEJM. The merits of the study relate to a relatively well-performed randomized investigation with decent follow-up and adherence to the protocol, features that are lacking in most diet-related studies.

I draw many of my personal recommendations from the controversies Gary Taubes defines in "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which at the very least raise the questionable benefits of the "nationally recommended" low-fat ('Heart healthy') and diabetic diets that have promulgated both medical and lay-society as being the best way to acheive 'best'-health.

This NEJM study at the very least fires a shot across the bow of the adamant supporters of these traditional 'healthy' diets, but it will remain to be seen if they change course or at least admit that there may be more discreet science behind carbs and inflammation and blood lipids.

I am not blatantly promoting the 'Zone' necessarily as the end-all, I am not sure if we know what is best and diet probably needs to be individualized. However, the cleaning-up of my diet (and that of my selected anectdotal pt population) has shown great promise in lipid, bloodsugar and weight control.

Personally eating zone-paleo has literally changed my life with regard to general well-being, optimal Crossfit performance gains and improved overall health. These are results I would only wish for everyone paticularly my patients who have entrusted their lives to me.

#54 I'm with you on the 5-5-5-5-5 or 3-3-3-3-3 across workouts. I want to get all five sets heavy rather than work up (slowly) to a one set max of 5 or 3 reps. When I have not really attempted a movement heavier, like push jerks, then I work up more slowly so I'll know how heavy to go for next time. I can still feel it in the shoulders, forearms, even chest, even though I didn't go as heavy as I probably could have.
Technique, Consistency...then Intensity right.
Today was push jerks: 95-135-135-155-155.
Next time should be 155-155-155-175-155...

I was doing push jerks yesterday at Globo-gym and this older gentleman comes up to me and asks what I'm doing. I explain Crossfit and he remarks that maybe 30 years ago he could have done it. I told him that I felt the same way when I first discovered the website in January, but decided to try it anyway. I said the workouts are scalable to your current fitness level. He asked me how old are you and I said that I turned 55 last week.
He said "you look good and you would look good for any age". Made my day.

Jack,

The weight loss is not the same. Water is weight, and absolutely, positively, must be lost. The ravages of hyperinsulinism are in no small part mediated through edema. If your diet is excessive in CHO you ARE edemic. Jack, edema is deadly. The observation that the quick weight loss on controlled CHO protocols is mostly water weight needs to be met with a "and thank God for that". In most people, even a little overweight, the loss of fluid in the ankles is hard to miss for an experienced clinician.

Having done extensive experimentation with diet from CHO levels at 100,90,80,70,60,50,40,30,20,10, and 0%, I can tell you that the reduction in calories required to loose weight at diets in excess of 55-60% of total caloric intake, produces a weight loss that is often as much muscle as fat. Ever work with a "Weight Watchers" (traditional/classic program) client? They get weaker and weaker with every passing week. Their weight loss on body comp analysis (hydrostatic weighing) is nearly 50% muscle.

Matt in Oz, your first paragraph flies in the face of our fifteen year experience with the Zone. (Yes, we were working with Dr. Sears and the Zone diet prior to the book's publisihing.) What is hard, and it is VERY hard, is managing carbohydrate addiction. As for weighing and measuring, you'll never find the jet stream for performance gains the Zone most definitely provides without weighing and measuring (no one here is lucky enough to stumble into that narrow bandwidth of optimal intake), but the weighing and measuring is a one or two week necessity with only periodic recalibration of your estimation. Nicole, for instance, as with anyone else schooled up on the Zone, could pull from a buffet line her requirements within roundoff error - just like the clerk at the deli counter who can grab a half pound of turkey breast within a slice after a week on the job.

As for the ad libitum (unrestricted) nature of the Atkins diet, one of the great lessons learned administering diets of varying macronutrient composition is that irrational food choices are nearly always limited to high glycemic loads. No matter how fond of eggs you are you'll not find yourself eating a couple and going back to the fridge repeatedly within a few hours to polish off the dozen. Contrast that if you will to Oreos. That the Atkins diet works in part through voluntary caloric restriction needs to be celebrated, like the sudden water loss, and not seen as a downside.

Appolloswabbie, Dr. Ornish acknowledged a problem with his diet elevating triglycerides in his peer reviewed work. It is indeed a problem. However, in his best selling book the word "triglyceride" doesn't even appear. Unconscionable! In his much heralded study the experimental group incurred a higher mortality rate than the control group which he either fairly or unfairly dismissed due to a single unfortunate death among, as I recall, 14 test subjects (too small an "n"). In Dr. Ornish's book he reports reductions in coronary artery occlusion at levels so low (if memory serves me it was 2%) that radiologists have repeatedly asked "by what means could that possibly have been accurately measured?" Friends and colleagues of Dr. Ornish reported to me that his work and thinking are excessively influenced by his devout adherence to Buddhism. I see it.

One last thing. Sodium retention is mediated by aldosterol which in turn is mediated by insulin. At euglycemia the problem QUICKLY becomes retaining sufficient sodium to maintain comfortable blood pressure (e.g., not passing out on rapidly standing). When we reduce our CHO intake to healthy, natural levels (no greater than about 50%), we immediately begin urinating sodium and need to maintain or increase salt intake to keep from becoming dizzy. When we consume excess CHO, insulin production jacks up aldosterone and you hold sodium. The problem with salt and BP, everyone, is excess carbohyrate intake. Reducing sodium intake to manage BP instead of reducing CHO intake and flushing sodium naturally is a classic bit of modern patient mismanagement.

I watched Ripp's vid from yesterday a number of times, slept on it, then focused on what he taught in applying the first pull in snatch practice this AM. Result was a much stronger/faster second pull and greater ability to keep the bar in the vertical plane. Previously I had been opening the femur/torso angle much too soon.
With greatest respect to Mr LaLanne, I think he's got ti backward; nutrition is king.

I remember reading old stuff about Jack LaLane. He was a really sickly kid and attributed it to his bad diet! In some of his old stuff he goes on about the importance of diet. I wonder if he corrected that bit and it was so ingrained into his lifestyle over the past many decades and he is so "competent" in that area that he moves the importance down a notch.

#52 - Eat 15+ different fruits and vegetables every day? Do you seriously have clients that tell you they do that?

I don't even think I can name 15+ different fruits and vegetables.

Nice to see an article that at least gives other diets reasonably equal footing to the good old USDA food pyramid!

I have posted before I tried high carb diet even got help from a dietitian when I started putting on weight after getting a desk job. It did not go well, I literally started falling apart! Went back to what was considered at the time a bad diet relatively high protein and fat, a fair amount of eggs when they were still considered evil. I just had to reduce my total intake a bit, I did much much better on that.

#57 Keith -
Yep. Did the Abs diet from Feb until late April. Went from 210 to 198 in that time. Then I found CF and switched to Zone. I'm now down to about 192. The difference is that my lean musacle mass is up significantly since starting CF and Zone as opposed to cardio (swim, bike, run) and ABS diet.

The abs diet I think is a simple tool to "not eat crap." In that aspect, if you've been eating packaged and processed foods, high GI foods, and too many carbs, it will cause you to rethink your food choices, which is a good thing. The ABS diet 12 power foods are essentially the same type of foods that we eat in the Zone.

The advantage to the Zone is that is adds rigor, macronutrient ratios, and corrects for protein where ABS really doesn't. In short, it prescribes eating enough for athletic performance, but not enough to sustain body fat. As a result, while the number on the scale hasn't changed as much for me on the Zone, my body comp has changed drastically for the better and my performance has increased more than I ever thought possible in a 3 month span (and I, like many here, thought I was athletic already - collegiate swimmer, football, and powerlifter, and more recently recreational triathlete.)

I have done both and choose to stay with Zone. It is quite simply the superior nutrition for my goals of broad inclusive fitness.

Hope this helps...
Scott

Allison_NYC: if you're having problems with jerks, you ought to look for nicer guys: try volunteering, church socials, or perhaps drop into your local CrossFit affiliate. ;)

#1 Billy...

That's my gym. Those crazy mf'ers tried to get me to do it...but it wasn't a cheat day for me :D LOL

#26
I take exception to the notion that the Zone is hard. I have been doing it for years. I started with
Envion. IT JUST HAS A STEEP LEARNING CURVE. Get a scale and do it exactly for two weeks and it becomes simple and easy. Two pieces of string cheese and an apple or a Zone Bar is a perfect snack. It's the carb addiction that seduces you to the dark side. Just surrender to it like you do to to Oly lifts. Have fun and smile!

#55 Website logging changes?
See yesterdays comments. Logsitall is ok, but i really don't want to post results in more than one place.

My idea (KISS principle) is how we currently put in name, email, url is:
1: Add fields for Gender, Age, Height, Weight.
2: Add ability to sort on those fields.
3: Add ability to filter results on those fields.

Depending on the technology currently being used these *probably* wouldn't be huge changes to make.

NEEDED this day of rest.... going to take full advantage

Allison NYC (#34)
anybody that is pushing the weight hard on the Jerks is going to suffer on the re-rack on multiple rep sets. I get really scuffed up from the center knurling on my Oly bar in my front rack position and make the grunting as the bar beats the air out of me on the catch,

The reason you can RECEIVE a heavy clean without pain is because you are meeting the bar in the rack position when it is motionless (or nearly motionless). To absorb the heavy overhead weight of a big jerk is done by pressing a bit and bending at the knees (just like your dip drive. Unfortunately, these pre-fatigue you for subsequent reps.

Hate to say it, but I think you are doing tings right and its just a matter of becoming accustomed to the discomfort to a certain extent 9unless you are really bruising)

To relate my mishpap from yesterdays WOD, I missed a 195# jerk and since the gym didn't have enough rubber to support the weight I was using, I tried to catch it in the high hang position instead of dumping. Basically ended up dropping the barbell on my right quad with my right leg forward in a semi split jerk position. The timing was horrific as I am competimng in an Oly meet this Saturday...it is fine though after a few icing sessions last night.

Keep up the work effort.

#24
Your post is right on and a good reply to Jack #16. I would add that most scientists are funded through peer reviewed grants. As a result, you do not want to piss off the establishment. Conclusions to scientific papers tend to be conservative for this reason. In addition, it is unlikely that one research covers every single parameter. You don't want to sound too sure of yourself and then have someone point out that part of your study is incomplete or flawed.

#30 Apollo
You can find Taubes' take on the researche here
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/21/gary-taubes-on-the-latest-diet-study/

Austin Texas, Town Lake this Saturday, under the bridge 10 am...........

1000 Burpees for time

Who's with me?

Austin Texas, Town Lake this Saturday, under the bridge 10 am...........

1000 Burpees for time

Who's with me?

Coach,
Thanks for posting that. Julie and I were just starting the zone a couple of years back. Most of our veggies were straight from the garden and our sodium intake was far below what it had been previously. I passed out getting out of bed one morning. Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I'll check my log book to confirm.

Chris

Thanks #52 tonythechiro, your tip of "if it has a label, it's not real food" helps me out-so simple, but I never thought of it that way before!

M/22/6'1"/185

Off topic but.... I just PR'd my snatch at 87.5kg. Also met my Clean + Jerk PR at 115kg

After:
Made up the Filthy Fifty
21:14
I know they're coming, I try to mentally prepare for them, but every time, the burpees hit me like a ton of bricks

#66 ScottE

Thanx for the insight. I will more into the Zone.

Great article on T-Nation yesterday about how fruit intake should be limited:

http://www.t-nation.com/article/diet_and_nutrition/the_evils_of_fruit

Another article, from Dr. Eades, dissecting a study done in China where individuals gained more weight through consumption of excessive vegetables:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/obesity/another-china-study/#more-1265

oops...
look more into Zone.

Here are a few quick observations from an aspiring RD (registration exam in September) about the weight-loss study:

As the authors note, it is interesting that the women lost more weight on the Mediterranean diet, while for the men the low-carb diet induced the most weight loss. I look forward to reading more about this in the future.

It would have been nice to see body composition data as well (not to mention changes in Fran times), but hey. Using BMI as a measure is not nearly as good as body fat measurement, especially where water losses likely varied between groups.

It would have been sweet to see the individual body weight or other responses all graphed together, since there are inevitably some larger and lesser "responders."

The reported average glycated hemoglobin (HgA1c, an indicator of long-term blood glucose levels) decrease of 0.9% for the low-carb group is pretty impressive.

The conclusion that the Mediterranean and low-carb diets appear "to be just as safe as the low-fat diet" seems tentative based on the reported findings. Significantly greater improvements in blood lipids, C-reactive protein (an indicator of inflammation), and A1c values for the low-carb diet (all three) and the Mediterranean diet (no significant A1c decrease) would indicate that these diets were more effective than the low-fat at promoting overall health during the 2-year study period. Maybe the authors were hesitant to say this without longer-term evidence about morbidity and mortality associated with each diet. Those studies can really help, since the measured health indicators are direct (sickness and death rates) rather than indirect (anthropometric measurements and lab values). Having spent 3 months in a pair of hospitals during my dietetics internship, there appears to be a lot of inertia in the menus given to patients with heart disease or diabetes. I pushed hard for replacing significant amounts of carbs with monounsaturated fats, but it's a big task.

B. Prendergrast commented earlier that "The real good news lies in the fact that this diet will promote non-fat anabolism and increased energy levels, without unduly increasing the risk of cholesterol associated disease." I wish the study had included measurements of muscle mass and participant reports about energy levels.

That picture kicks ass! Go Navy!

Does anyone know how the Zone compare to South Beach? I tried to start the Zone at the beginning of the year, but my wife decided we were going to do South Beach because she didn't want to deal with the weighing and measuring and the blocks. (Tough to argue with the person who does all the grocery shopping and most of the cooking).

Basically South beach reduces/eliminates all sugar and pasta/bread type of carbs for two weeks and then allows you to gradually add back in whole grain carbs. A side effect of the elimination of pasta/bread is an increase in veggies.

I lost 15 pounds on South Beach and feel pretty good. Probably most of the weight loss was due to a reduction in sugar intake. But now I'm wondering if the Zone would offer a significant improvement.

Question about poor form injury with the Push Jerks from yesterday.

I totally screwed up my left forearm / elbow somehow. The upper forearm is pretty sore, and I feel a weird sensation where it attaches to the elbow when I use it from different angles.

First time doing PJ yesterday, did a bunch of no-weight, 25#, and 45# warmups to practice form. As I increased the weight to 95, I started to notice my grip a little more and specifically the width of the grip. I started to widen the grip because it felt a little more comfortable, but I'm thinking that when I finally had the bar over my head, the angle of my wrist was canted inward and caused stress on the forearms/elbow... that's just a theory. Although my right arm is OK.

Anyone else ever have this problem starting out with PJ's? Any advise for a speedy recovery?

Thanks!
Kyle

Robert Atkins SHOULD receive a posthumous Nobel Prize in medicine.

Coach-
I think you wrote on the similarities between Atkins and Louis Pasteur, yes? Pasteur suggested there was an infectious agent behind most diseases and suggested that surgeons should wash their hands between surgeries, attending births etc. He was scorned and reviled...and ultimately correct.

Atkins suggested elevated insulin levels were behind heart disease, stroke, many types of cancers. The solution, similar in complexity to washing ones hands, was the reduction of carbohydrate intake.

Ok, the Atkins haters may now commence their assault...

Robb:

Regarding hand sanitizing: Are you sure you don't mean Ignaz Semmelweis? Semmelweis is generally credited with the method; Pasteur with the germ theory that explains it.

Younkins, definately defines retard strength. This is photo proof. Obviously not much has changed since I was there with them in 2005-2006.

Mmmmm...rest day. Think I'll go for a jog.

Jack LaLane, What a cool guy. Great video guys!

The ‘Zone’ is the way to go. Before I started crossfit, I started with the Zone and just cardio 4-5 times a week for 20-30 minutes. My starting weight January 4th of this year was 240 lbs. When I started Crossfit, at the end of June, I was down to 175. With crossfit I have actually gained about 5 # due to muscle mass gains. I am a firm believer in the power of the Zone. The Zone coupled with Crossfit, to me, equals the paramount in fitness training.

What's this? A Coach, Robb Wolf, AND Brian Mulvaney sighting on the same rest day?! Jumping Gee-hosephat, Batman.

Coach - thanks for the sodium info. I am in the middle of week two of strict Zone and it explains the head rushes and um, curious excretion color. Pass the salt, please. To quote the great Johnny Carson - "I did not know that."

Brian - I owe you, Dan Mac, and Coach an email on the IP issue. I'll be sending it before the end of the week.

What, no politics on rest day?! I am outraged that we are discussing these kinds of diet and fitness related issues on the days I have set aside for hot-button issue discussion. That's it - I'm quitting because of this. ;-)

Holy cow...thank you for that note about sodium/water retention/blood pressure, Coach!

I haven't had my BP checked lately. Since I started weighing and measuring my food and taking fish oil, I have noticed some dizzy spells (brief) when standing up quickly...more so than past/normal. The last two batches of macadamia nuts I bought were salted and I haven't noticed it lately.

While I don't know what my current BP is, I doubt it is terribly low. My wife on the other hand is around 90/60 (I have taken it multiple times). Maybe a pinch or two of salt in my olive oiled sauted veggies is in order.

Oorah ANGLICO! What's up with black shorts and a green shirt?
-Shaky

Not sure if someone posted this before, but CrossFit got a cool plug:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-080722-how-to-batman,0,3792080.photogallery

Matt: He wrote "Most people associate an Atkins diet with bacon, butter and brie". Obviously, that approach won't work. It's like weight watchers eating nothing all day to save up their points and buy mcdonalds for dinner.
--Matt, do you have evidence that it 'won't work' or is this to be considered your strongly held belief?

My comments on the Zone diet have to do with the sillyness of most mainstream commentary on diets. The terms "low fat" and "high protein" are thrown around but virtually never quantified. Therefore, the terms are meaningless.

Is 'low fat' defined by percent of energy from fat, or by total grams of fat consumed? In either case, how is it indexed to LBM as of the consumer? What does 'high protein' mean - same issues as the definition of high or low fat.

Also, not all proteins or fats are "equal." For example, Ornish seems to think of Atkins style eating as high fat, high protein (whatever that means to him), but then goes on to say he thinks vegetable protein sources are preferable.

If I eat a 1700 calorie, 17 block zone diet with 137 grams of protein and the corresponding amount of fat - is it high fat, high protein, both or neither? I would submit that in the common diet parlance it could be either or neither when compared to a 2000 calorie USDA style 'diet' with 30% calories from fat.

In the watered down, "must write this article so that the average person can read it while sitting on the toilet for two minutes" way of mags like Newsweek, the information is far too vague to allow an intelligible conclusion, and essentially just further confuses an already completely baffled general public. Perhaps the blame really goes to the public for paying for that kind of poor info. Paul

These are my observations from personal experience regarding the study on dieting. Honestly, there is no such thing as dieting. What a person eats on a daily basis is called their diet, whether it is good or bad. What people refer to as dieting is going from what they usually eat, to eating healthy for a certain period of time, and then going back to their unhealthy habits. Then they say they went on a "diet" but it only worked for a little while. Eating healthy has to become a lifestyle. Some people say the low-carb "diet" is not effective in the long term. This is because the person doing it does not have the self control to stay away from high-carb unhealthy foods. And this goes for all "diets." I feel there is a little too much science going into this whole debate. I'm glad the science is there, but I don't think it is as confusing as people are making it.

There is a thing called the glycemic index (GI). It is a way of rating how carbohydrates effect a persons blood glucose (sugar) levels. Foods low on the GI, vegetables and whole grains, have a lower effect on a persons glucose levels than foods high on the GI, sugar and flour, making low GI foods healthier. A main goal of anyone trying to eat a healthy diet should be keeping their blood glucose levels steady and level throughout the day. This helps keep weight down, increases insulin sensitivity, helps control and alleviate diabetes, and has many other health benefits. So when it comes to what kind of carbs a person should eat, just stay away from high GI foods and eat low GI foods. I know this sounds easier than it is, but it's only as easy as one wants it to be. Eat these: vegetables (greener the better), fruits (earlier the better), sweet potatoes (not canned yams), beans, whole grains (oatmeal, brown rice), nuts. Not these: sugar, flour, white potatoes, white bread, crackers, chips. This is just an example of a few good and bad carbs.

Now when it comes to fats, it is kinda the same thing. There are good fats and bad fats. Mono's and poly's are better than saturated and trans. So let's try to eat one and not the other. Eat these: avocados, fish, fish oils, flax seed, nuts (almonds better, peanuts not as much), olives, olive oil, natural peanut butter. Not these: fried foods (or any oil hot enough to smoke), red meat (minimal amount), anything with high levels of saturated and trans fats.

Proteins are not very difficult either. Chicken, fish, eggs, and nuts are probably the popular ones. And for good reason. They are low on the GI and are not high in bad fats. I personally like whole eggs. I think the fat in the yolk is healthy fat but some people believe different which is fine. If a person wants to just eat the whites that's fine too. Red meat has protein also but has a higher level of saturated fats, so try not to eat red meat too often. Pork is probably one of the worse proteins to eat in my book. It is high in saturated fats and sodium. Also, the pig is just a dirty animal. It will eat anything. And what it eats becomes what it is. So try to eat pork as little as possible too.

Those are the three big categories, carbs, fats, and protein. For dinner tonight try to pick a healthy protein, a healthy carb, and a healthy fat. It is that easy. All you have to do is figure out how much of each is ideal for you. Amounts are different for everybody. If you are very active, i.e. doing crossfit, you might want a little more of each. If you are a couch (sweet) potato, a little less might suit you better. Another thing to think about if you are very active, eating some carbs higher on the GI directly after a workout is ok. The higher insulin levels that this causes will help your muscles absorb protein and nutrients faster.

What I'm trying to get across here is, don't let all the science of "dieting" discourage you. It is easier than it sounds. And listen to your body, it will let you know what it likes and dislikes. In the end, eating the healthier foods will satisfy you way more than their tasty non-healthy counterparts will.

If you don't quite agree with anything I have said, let me know. I am always open to constructive criticism.

I'm not sold on the caveman diet or any carb restricting diet. Low carb diets probably work for non-atheletes, but I bet there's very few olympic atheletes on low carb diets.

I avoid refined carbs, but I eat whole grains. I don't know how you can possibly get enough carbs from only fruits and veggies. I feel anemic when I don't get enough carbs, and I've passed out during workouts.

Oatmill and whole grain pasta=FUEL.

Coach:

One of the things that has been the most useful for me from this site has been your posting of Gary Taubes lecture. Like Kant reading Hume, that lecture broke me from my dogmatic slumber of "calories in minus calories out."

Ryan

Your comments about the pig are off base. First, it is a delicious, delicious animal. Second, pig fat contains stearic acid, which has many health benefits.

I am not sold on saturated fats being bad, either...although Dr. Sears claims they raise insulin levels. But he also claims that egg yolks are terrible because they contain arachidonic acid (sp?), which is the building block for bad eichonasoids (sp?).

As for low-carb and performance, I have found that my strength workouts are all good without carbs but that my metcon times suffer. But for those on a strength kick, I have found a low-carb diet to benefit (or at least not detract from) my performance while delivering physique improvements.

I Crossfit specifically so I can eat whatever the heck I want, whenever I want. Does that make me a bad person? Of course I would fare better if I altered my diet, but eating is fun. Its a yin and yang sort of thing.

Apollo:

I've read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and I don't remember Taubes directly addressing Ornish's work.

However, Taubes' general position which I gathered from numerous interviews is that the big study Ornish did confounded a bunch of things. Participants were asked not only to change diet, but also exercise, quit smoking, and meditate.

Those last three are fairly uncontroversial in terms of heart health.

Moreover, Taubes doesn't deny that saturated fat has some effect on heart disease, particularly in patients with an advanced form of the disease. The question is how useful is it for the general population to reduce saturated fat. How many life-years does it bring you?

Also, does reducing fat raise your risk of cancer. There seems to be at least a little evidence that an ultra-low carb diet can slow the progress of cancer.

200 Pullups
400 Pushups
400 Body weight squats
Total time for workout 52 minutes

Anyone try something like this before

anyone watch the World Series of Poker last night??
If so, the guy who was sitting next to Andy Bloch's (cowboy hat) girlfriend looked like Sevan.
Did anyone else notice this??

Has anyone doing Crossfit ever done calorie restriction and stayed on it for a long period of time?

What an awesome BATTLE TROLL!!!!!

By the way, for whoever posted the GO NAVY comment... That HARDCHARGER is a MARINE SERGEANT.

Just ask Chesty... "THERE'S NOTHING BETTER THAN A MARINE SGT."

Apolloswabbie: "bingo" At both the Newsweek level and at the NEJM level, the study is nothing more than one more piece of information from which no definitive conclusions may be drawn, and anyone who states otherwise is practicing either bad science or self-serving charlatanism.

The essence of the scientific method is asking good questions (hypothesis), collecting information, and then asking new, better questions (refining your hypothesis) based on the collected information, not on preconceived notions about how the world is supposed to work. Hopefully this study will lead to better questions and better experiments that will ultimately lead to dietary/exercise guidelines not based on conventional wisdom, half-hearted science and the profitability of the industrial food complex.

As Coach said, he's experimented with CHO levels from 100% to 0%, and the CrossFit community has settled on Zone proportions for optimizing athletic performance. So think for yourself. Start with the Zone and collect enough data on yourself (many months) before you refine your hypothesis. Same thing with Paleo/IF/etc. They are great starting points that you need to understand and refine on your own.

The only experiment that matters is you, and you're the only person who cares enough about yourself to conduct that experiment. Think about that. *No one* cares more about that experiment than you.

Am I crazy or does the amount of weight lost in this study seem pretty small. Even with the greatest mean loss of 5.5 Kg I am surprised that most people stayed on the diet. I mean that is only 12 pounds lost over TWO YEARS!!! That is a half a pound a month, and that is the best case scenario (yes I know that mean means the average and some people would have experienced more weight loss but we are talking about overall here)If you are obese and need to lose 50 to 100 pounds it is going to take you at least a decade to do it with those diets. Just an observation.

Todays Workout: Crushed insolent high schooler's in summer school at dodgeball for 1.5 hours. Only got drilled in the nads once. Gotta love this "old school" approved form of child abuse! Of course, we played it crossfit style...if you got hit, you had to bang out reps of various exercises, based on the color of the ball that got ya....the blue burpee ball of DEATH was the most feared.

Saw this game on the main page last week...great idea!

just finding out about Jack Lalanne... class act!

"you make it happen...." enough said right there!

#103..that's impressive. i've done 500 airsquats and 250 pushups for time (best time is around 48 mins) but i don't have (yet) a pullup bar at home so my bodyweight exercises at home don't incorp a pullup. did you do the pullup strict style or kipping?

m, 31, 6"5, 230

Bret,

Thanks for the comment. I know pork is delicious but that does not necessarily make it a healthy food. Lots of tasty foods are horrible for you. Even though stearic acid may be good for you, the negatives out weigh the positives with pork by far. This is something I found with just a quick search. There are many more articles stating similar information.

"Pig's bodies contain many toxins, worms and latent diseases. Although some of these infestations are harbored in other animals, modern veterinarians say that pigs are far more predisposed to these illnesses than other animals. This could be because pigs like to scavenge and will eat any kind of food, including dead insects, worms, rotting carcasses, excreta (including their own), garbage, and other pigs.

Influenza (flu) is one of the most famous illnesses which pigs share with humans. This illness is harbored in the lungs of pigs during the summer months and tends to affect pigs and humans in the cooler months. Sausage contains bits of pigs' lungs, so those who eat pork sausage tend to suffer more during epidemics of influenza. Pig meat contains excessive quantities of histamine and imidazole compounds, which can lead to itching and inflammation; growth hormone, which promotes inflammation and growth; sulphur-containing mesenchymal mucus, which leads to swelling and deposits of mucus in tendons and cartilage, resulting in arthritis, rheumatism, etc.

Sulfur helps cause firm human tendons and ligaments to be replaced by the pig's soft mesenchymal tissues, and degeneration of human cartilage. Eating pork can also lead to gallstones and obesity, probably due to its high cholesterol and saturated fat content. The pig is the main carrier of the taenia solium worm, which is found it its flesh. These tapeworms are found in human intestines with greater frequency in nations where pigs are eaten. This type of tapeworm can pass through the intestines and affect many other organs, and is incurable once it reaches beyond a certain stage. One in six people in the US and Canada has trichinosis from eating trichina worms which are found in pork. Many people have no symptoms to warn them of this, and when they do, they resemble symptoms of many other illnesses. These worms are not noticed during meat inspections, nor are they killed by salting or smoking. Few people cook the meat long enough to kill the trichinae. The rat (another scavenger) also harbors this disease. There are dozens of other worms, germs, diseases and bacteria which are commonly found in pigs, many of which are specific to the pig, or found in greater frequency in pigs."

Has anyone read Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food? I've heard him interviewed on the radio several times, but haven't picked it up yet.

I have two huge knots in my lower back, i think i need to go home early and get some heat on it...lucky its a rest day

Frank B # 105-
Many, many people have followed the base Zone for varying periods of time (quite calorie restricted). Typically they then up cals via an increase in mono-fats to maintain weight at a lean, athletic level. This maintenance is typically ~20% less than what folks think they need and historically have eaten.

Pleepleus #101-
Give a read to the names: Jim Fix, Mel Siff, and Brian Maxwell (Power bar founder, wife was a vegetarian dietician). Exercise buys one precious little if the diet is bad, and this is not a value judgment, simply a fact.

Kurt 98#-
It's a fairly easy conversion to swap out yams, sweet potatoes and fruit from grains and pasta if one is so inclined. Barry Sears recommends fruits and veggies as the base of the Zone. Chapter 1 of the Zone and 3 chapters of the Omega RX Zone reference paleo nutrition. In fact Sears points to Boyd S. Eaton's 1985 paper as the inspiration for his work and the starting point for the 40-30-30 macronutrient ratio recommended in the Zone. Sears claim upwards of 40 gold medalists in his clientele...take from that what you will. Additionally, Joe Friel, author of The Tri athletes Training Bible has recommended a paleo diet for years. We are now trying to get him and his athletes to weigh and measure (Zone proportions) to tighten up the benefits of an already effective nutritional approach. Here is his experience of adopting a paleo approach, excerpted from The Paleo Diet for Athletes:
“I have known Dr. Cordain for many years, but I didn’t become aware of his work until 1995. That year we began to discuss nutrition for sports. As a longtime adherent to a very high-carbohydrate diet for athletes, I was skeptical of his claims that eating less starch would benefit performance. Nearly every successful endurance athlete I had known ate as I did, with a heavy emphasis on cereals, bread, rice, pasta, pancakes, and potatoes. In fact, I had done quite well on this diet, having been an All-American age-group duathlete (bike and run), and finishing in the top 10 at World Championships. I had also coached many successful athletes, both professional and amateur, who ate the same way I did.”

“Our discussions eventually led to a challenge. Dr. Cordain suggested I try eating a diet more in line with what he recommended for one month. I took the challenge, determined to show him that eating as I had for years was the way to go. I started by simply cutting back significantly on starches, and replacing those lost calories with fruits, vegetables, and very lean meats.”

“For the first two weeks I felt miserable. My recovery following workouts was slow and my workouts were sluggish. I knew that I was well on my way to proving that he was wrong. But in week three, a curious thing happened. I began to notice that I was not only feeling better, but that my recovery was speeding up significantly. In the fourth week I experimented to see how many hours I could train.

“Since my early 40s (I was 51 at the time), I had not been able to train more than about 12 hours per week. Whenever I exceeded this weekly volume, upper respiratory infections would soon set me back. In Week Four of the “experiment,” I trained 16 hours without a sign of a cold, sore throat, or ear infection. I was amazed. I hadn’t done that many hours in nearly 10 years. I decided to keep the experiment going.”

“That year I finished third at the U.S. national championship with an excellent race, and qualified for the U.S. team for the World Championships. I had a stellar season, one of my best in years. This, of course, led to more questions of Dr. Cordain and my continued refining of the diet he recommended.”

“I was soon recommending it to the athletes I coached, including Ryan Bolton, who was on the U.S. Olympic Triathlon team. Since 1995. I have written four books on training for endurance athletes and have described and recommended the Stone Age diet in each of them. Many athletes have told me a story similar to mine: They have tried eating this way, somewhat skeptically at first, and then discovered that they also recovered faster and trained better.”

So Kurt, why don't you give a paleo/zone approach a shot and let me know how you do on it.

Brian # 87-
That sounds good to me!

Ryan L. - interesting source of dietary info - www.themodernreligion.com (Islam - The Modern Religion). I googled the whole last paragraph and it led me to http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/pork.html
and a wikipedia entry mirroring the first. Should I avoid anything else that isn't halal as well?

Ryan L # 112-
Gall stones are NOT a problem with fat, it's a problem with gluten:

http://www.celiac.com/articles/119/1/Gall-Bladder-Disease-and-Celiac-Disease---By-Ronald-Hoggan/Page1.html

On a less rational note: The Jihadists find pork consumption repugnant...for that reason ALONE I'll continue to eat my fare share of swine.

That tire picture is hilarious -- I really would like to see a video of that too, because I just imagine to get it down he just lets go and slips through the hole like Buster Keaton...

How important is it to take a day off from crossfit?????

Yeah, I have never met anyone afflicted with any of those diseases. And everyone I know eats lots of pig. My bacon this morning hit the spot.

Those quotes sound like fear-mongering, and it turns out the source is an Islamic website. Hmmm...maybe there are some pre-conceived notions factoring into the analysis?

2,000 years ago there may have been some merit to the argument that the pig is a dirty animal. But today, far and away, the chicken is(usually) the filthiest and most disease-ridden animal one can buy at the grocery store.

Ash, yes I do have clients who tell me they eat 15+ F and V a day. And they do it. So do my family and I - wife and three kids, 13, 12 and 4yo. It's a family ritual in our house to count the F and V in each meal and for fun try to max our variability. We've had days over 25.

Are you seriously telling me that you can't name 15 F and V??? I'm concerned for you.

Amanda, glad the "label" thing helped!

#109

If you're pushing yourself to the max for the 3 days on ... very important.

LINDA....I HEAR YOU...

Interesting article.
Seems like the low-fat diet lost out big. It was always the Mediterranean and low-carb diets with the most remarkable results.
That's a serious tire to have overhead! I'd like to see how he got it up there. If he got it there alone that's bonus points.
Way behind...filthy50 for me.

The picture is awesome - click Enlarge and check out the facial expression - classic!

#112 Ryan L

All natural foods contain some sort of toxin. I remember in university my biochem prof telling us that even in the most naturally organic- friendly brocolli there was still a multitude of natural toxins in it but that our bodies could deal with it and that it deals with a lot of toxic compounds. Check out this site for a little taste of what is in some common foods: http://www.fortfreedom.org/s15.htm

Also, when we hear people talk about toxins they usually don't have a clue what it means. It has become a catch all term used by quacks to sell flushing systems and detox kits which are all a bunch of crap.

I am totally with you on not eating pork though. In fact I don't eat any meat at all because I am not a fan of factory farming, steroids, antibiotics, dementia or colon cancer.

Apolloswabbie #96

I just posted the link to Gary's opinion on the research such that you could read it and make your own opinion. Please stop putting words into my mouth. I did say nor pretend that I agreed 100% with his statement and that his beliefs were my beliefs. your accusatory style of writing does not encourage fruitful discussion.
As far as the fat/protein/carb content of diets are concerned, I always interpreted the numbers as relative and not absolute. If I eat a diet that is 30% fat, 60% protein, and 10% carbohydrate, then I have a high protein diet. If I eat a diet that is 30% fat, 60% carbohydrate and 10% protein, I have a high carb diet. however, both diets have the same amount of fat. Similarly, one could label the zone as high carb high fat or high carb high protein depending on which side of the bed they woke up on.
What really matters are the relative proportions such as in the zone 40% carb, 30% fat, 30% protein. The absolute numbers will differ from one individual to the next. The sources are somewhat important but still not the most important factor. Ultimately you would want as much variety in the sources as possible but that is not an option for people with vegetarian, or other, lifestyles.

#111 - The pullups were strict

m, 35, 5"10, 190lbs

Comment #16 posted by Jack

Your comment about the glycogen depletion during low carb diets is correct, however if you keep reading you will notice that they gradually increased the carbs back to 120g/day which would replenish their glycogen stores. Therefore, the low carb ppl still lost more fat than the low fat dieters.

On an off note, low carb diets get alot of bad rap because of the high cholesterol in the diet. However studies show that low carb diets actually lowered bad cholesterol and raised good cholesterol. Just a thought for those who are against low carb diets. Also for those who do low carb diets, when you start to come off them, do it gradually, so as not to blow up like a balloon.

Comment #113 - Kurt_eh

re: Michael Pollan's "In Defense of Food"

I read it, highly reccomend it, it makes a whole lot of good sense. Omnivore's Dilemma is good too. Haven't touched a Big Mac or anything remotely close since. Grass fed organic beef & farmer's markets baby. Testify!

#64

Thought the same thing about 15 F and V. No Way! As I'm scarfing down my homemade salad that has 1 C of lettuce and the rest is Cucumber, shredded carrots, orange pepper, mushrooms, grapes...
Let's see, plus green pepper, onion, tomato in the morning omelette. apple and orange for snack. shoot, i just need some brocolli for dinner and watermelon for dessert and i'm golden...wait two short. OK, that's impossible...LOL.

#98

The sooner we get you carb-addicts from spreading that mess-age, the better off we'll be. All of the Army RDs preach the same thing and that explains all the fatties bouncing through the chow line at the DIFAC every day. "Just control your portions of whole-grains". YEAH RIGHT.

#119

Do CrossFit for two more days in a row and you'll see...

AllisonNYC comment 34,

I had the same problem and it left me with a huge bruise mid-line on my clavicles so that when I wore a polo shirt, it looked like I was in a car wreck and got clobbered by the steering wheel.

I took a really close look at this video:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/cfj-nov-05/push-jerk.wmv

It's coach B. explaining the PJ and Sage is demonstrating the move. If you look at Sage's elbows they are forward enough at the bottom of the rep so that when she receives the bar at the end of the rep, she is resting the bar across her shoulders, and her chest is rotated under making the bony prominence of the clavicle retract because the elbows are rotated forward. When I tried this on the next PJ WOD, it worked like a charm. I am now working on the wrist position. If you notice in the same video Sage does not adjust her wrist at any point during the rep. She keeps it bent. When I do that, I feel like I lose power. Anyway, please let me know if this helps.

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

Comment #102 - Posted by: Karl Smith

Thanks Karl. Paul

#75 MEl:

"Austin Texas, Town Lake this Saturday, under the bridge 10 am...........

1000 Burpees for time

Who's with me?"

That's the coolest/funniest post I've seen in a while. I'm half tempted to fly out there and meet you just for that WOD!

Really Good LONG Taub lecture:

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216

Ryan L #112, your information on pork seems to come from here:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/pork.html

Not exactly unbiased.

In particular this statement:

"Sulfur helps cause firm human tendons and ligaments to be replaced by the pig's soft mesenchymal tissues, and degeneration of human cartilage."

is laughable and ludicrous. Show me one autopsy that shows a heavy pork eater has somehow become a human-pig hybrid, I'll change my tune.

bacon tastes good.
pork chops taste good.

Comment #126 - Posted by: M@
Apparently you are not claiming as yours (from the section I copied) the portion not in the quotes. When I read it, it appeared you were saying "obviously that won't work." If not, my apologies.

The accusatory style - yes, my questions are not coming out like I would prefer. Intention was to challenge your 'opinions' (aka strongly held beliefs) on a matter when my perception of the topic of the day is the attempt to wrestle with the science of diet, weight loss, and health. A long running theme for this community is the disparity between opinions and science, learning how to think about the difference in the two, how low in quality much of the science on this topic is, and generally how far the science has lagged behind clinical observation.

I understand your quantification of 'high fat' 'low fat' etc - the point was that in a topic this complex, the unquantified use of those terms makes them meaningless, didn't aim that one at you per se.

My previous two efforts were too poorly worded to elicit the character of response I was hoping for - I'll call it quits on that for today. Good luck to you in your CrossFitting.

Paul

#135 Reto

Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie but I'll never know cause I wouldn't eat the filthy MotherF&(*&

Apolloswabbie

You may have been quoting matt in oz and not me. It wasn't specified so I thought you were replying to me because I posted a link to Taubes's comments given that you asked about him in the context of the Ornish diet. The link I provided actually discusses Taubes' take on the article of the day and not the ornish diet. I recommend Taubes' book if you want his thoughts on that matter.
I think the reason why the article isn't as specific as you would like with regards to the numbers and percentages is because the subjects are given guidelines for dieting and then meet with dietitians at certain set intervals. The data they obtained is based on self reporting on the part of the subjects. As a result, the adherence may have been lower than reported. This is always a huge problem in these types of trials. Unless you are dealing with prisoners who you can monitor for 24 hours a day, absolute control is elusive. I appreciate the fact that you want to create discussion I'm just not sure all of your questions can be answered with respect to this study. You send someone off to diet with some guidelines, give them a phone call now and then if they are having trouble, write down what they tell you they are eating and assume they are telling the truth. They could have given you some absolute numbers but they would have been different for everybody and would likely lack accuracy.

I GOT MY 1st MUSCLE UP YESTERDAY ! Yeeeeeeeeeeessss!
as well as my brother in law Tim. What a feeling.I Love crossfit........is that creepy?

With all this pork talk, why does an episode of the Simpsons suddenly come to mind?

Homer: Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal.
Homer: Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.

Reto - "Grass fed organic beef & farmer's markets baby. Testify!"
--On the money. I think (opinion) one of the reasons that Omega 3 supplementation is so helpful is that we don't get it from the meats that are readily available - however, grassfed beef and game have more than the grain finished stuff we can more easily/cheaply get. Just one good reason for grassfed beef, the pork we get from my in-laws' organic farm, and the tasty deer I'll be chasing in a couple of months. paul

29m/5'6"/163#

Did Murph today:

Run 1 Mile - 7:44
100 pull-ups
200 push-ups
300 squats - 22:43
Run 1 Mile - 7:39

Total: 38:06

pull-ups, push-ups & squats were broken into 10 sets of 10, 20 & 30.

May I just say that I mush rather prefer to read this discussion, which has taught me a few things and had some light bulbs go off, than something political or other nonsense. Great rest day subject!
I think I discovered the reason my weight loss has slowed...

Josh #107: "So think for yourself. Start with the Zone and collect enough data on yourself (many months) before you refine your hypothesis. Same thing with Paleo/IF/etc. They are great starting points that you need to understand and refine on your own."
--Not sure if this is to the generic reader or me specifically, but I've been zoning since 96, with varying degrees of fidelity. Tried Atkins once when I got lazy about keeping good carbs around; it worked. Re-focused my Zone effort when I started CFing in Jan 07 - dropped from 225 to 205 and have held it there. HDL/LDL, triglycerides, fasting glucose, all in the 'favorable' range despite my 'excessive' fat consumption (whole milk, and handfuls of macadamias and cashews).

My experiments are Zone positive. Paul

Comment #82 - Posted by: WeemsFit
Awesome review, thanks. Paul

Comment #61 - Posted by: Coach at July 23, 2008 6:46 AM

"One last thing. Sodium retention is mediated by aldosterol which in turn is mediated by insulin. At euglycemia the problem QUICKLY becomes retaining sufficient sodium to maintain comfortable blood pressure (e.g., not passing out on rapidly standing). When we reduce our CHO intake to healthy, natural levels (no greater than about 50%), we immediately begin urinating sodium and need to maintain or increase salt intake to keep from becoming dizzy. When we consume excess CHO, insulin production jacks up aldosterone and you hold sodium. The problem with salt and BP, everyone, is excess carbohyrate intake. Reducing sodium intake to manage BP instead of reducing CHO intake and flushing sodium naturally is a classic bit of modern patient mismanagement."

Coach G, Do you have any sources/ links where I can get additional information on the quoted paragraph?

What you wrote describes what my wife goes through with her low blood pressure. About 10 years ago she had her gallbladder removed because she had a stone. Since then various doctors/nutritionists have recommended a low fat diet which thereby follows that she must then have a much higher CHO diet. She is quite active and maintains herself in good condition. She has a problem with her blood pressure on frequently dropping and causing her to be dizzy (mareada).

The problem of low blood pressure has ONLY been noted by her since the removal of the gall bladder and the subsequent following of the doctors' dietary recommendations.

Thanks again for offering to the world a sane method for obtaining excellent health.

M/51/6'/202

Have stress fracture in 2nd metatarsal right foot ... so running, squats, dead lifts etc out for now. Did Lynne today, and can do all types of upper body and core work. Plan on doing alot of tabata stuff for conditioning, cable rows, upper body ergometer etc.

If anybody has been through this and has any great ideas/ workouts let me know. I can be creative and come up with all kinds of stuff on my own, just trying to tap into the resource of the community.

I rested in 8 hours today. A PR for me. :)

Did workout from 7/16/08 WOD: Deadlift 5-5-5-5-5

225x5, 275x5, 300x5, 300x5, 300x2

Last set surprised me. Thought I was going to be able to get a new set of 45lb plates; guess I still need to work on it!

36yrs/5'10"/225lbs

Coach, Rob, great data dump, thanks. Paul

got in this morning, JFK-LAX 3 hours late due to wx, atc. in bed a 5am arrgg

catching up from yesterday:
warm up
push jerk 3x3x3x3x3
135;145;155;165;175

jump rope....still can't get the hang of double unders

2 sets of 500m row for time, at setting 5:

1:40
1:39 34spm

taking the rest of the day off:O)

29/f/114

4 mile run on treadmill

post:wux2

resting tomorrow

Good rest day discussion. I have read a lot about different dietary trends - Ornish, paleo, IF, Zone, Atkins. I read Good Calories, Bad Calories, In Defense of Food, and the China Study. I have read that saturated fat is good and bad. Carbs are required for performance; carbs make you fat. Out of everything I have ever read about nutrition, I think the best advice I have ever seen is contained in one sentence of Crossfit's "World-Class Fitness in 100 Words":

Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar.

No measuring, no worrying about macronutrients, no calorie restriction. Simple. Brilliant.

LOVE "ZONING"!!!! Love the 2-3 free meals I give myself each week too!

Being a 1 year breast cancer survivor (double mastectomy 7/18/07 and reconstruction on 11/19/07) nutrition has become even a more focused part of daily life.

When diagnosed 6/13/07 I couldn't handle any talk of nutritional changes. I have a book "Crazy Sexy Cancer Tips" by Kris Carr and her chapter on nutrition floored me! Acidic vs. alkaline, enzymes, carbs, etc....after reading that and my husband coming home from the Levl 1 Certification in Maine June 22 I made the commitment to Zone....better fitness and hopefully I will avoid cancer coming back.

The support of my husband, 3 girls ages 8, 7, and 5, family, and friends and Crossfit have definitely guided me physically and mentally in my comeback!!

Cancer is like a lion's fight....let it hear you roar!

the magic bullet is the zone. it has far exceeded all anticipated benefits. it's not hard to use a measuring cup & spoon, and a scale isn't mysterious.

carb cravings are a lame excuse. you are entirely responsible for every last thing you put in your mouth. until the day you wake up and find a diseased homeless guy's "foot" (ahem) in there, you have to own your own childish failure to keep your fat fingers out of the cookie jar.

food isn't a substitute for love. it's fuel. act accordingly.

Comment #138 - Posted by: M@

Copy all, Matt - and I htink you were right about who my questions were posted for.

In general, my frustration with the terminology is related to the popular press, not the study, which does quantify what it meant by the terms in question.

I found the link you posted to Taubes' comments, many thanks!

Bret K - you got me all hungry for some porcine delight aka bacon ...

Paul

Spider Chick:

You just made me drop my cupcake.

f/32/5'4"/130

Made up PJs today.

95/115/125x1/125x2/125/135x2

Got a little more successful going from behind the head on the heavy sets. That was more than 5 sets but I'm just stubborn.

=o)

Listening to the advice on the jerks I've gotten a lot of good advice. I've got the bruise from bring the bar down, I don't have the option to drop it at any time so I'm really careful about what I put up. But my wrists give me more problems than anything else. I'll try paying cloer attention to their positoin. I've noticed an odd thing with me lately. When I do an intense chest kind of workout, pushups, presses, cleans, I get a really tight feeling coming from the center of my chest, like where my collar bones meet my sternum. Haven't found a stretch yet that gets it but when I start stretching I get this huge pop from that area. No pain at all, and if I'm honest I do it now cause it freaks my husband out.

And Coach, that is really good to know about the sodium. I have a really big problem with my BP being very low, and I've been complaining that the healthier I get the dizzier I get. But I had cut out that big thing of Gatorade that I drank after each workout cause it didn't quite jive in the zone. I'll add that back in and see if it helps.

I was trying to stay up late and see what's coming up for tomorrow but I'm worn out and my husband just shut down too so I'm off.

Missed yesterdays workout. Made up today by:

5 minute brisk walk;
CJ, 95x5, 95x7,95x7,95x8;
10 minutes of hard 30 second intervals with 1.5 minute rests on elliptical.

10 minutes 12% incline, 45 second intervals at 7mph with 1:15 rests.

Going on vacation, going to try to get up early for WOD tomorrow.

I eat healthy when i can. I know the difference, and like spider chick, take ownership if i eat a jelly donut and feel like a disgusting fat body.

"Bacon, the dessert of meats..."
-My wife, who was vegetarian for 7 years.

Re: NEJM article...

Lots of meat on this bone, and lots of very worthwhile commentary here. I confess to not having taken notes, so apologies for inadequate post # recall.

The article is significant mostly for what it does NOT find, namely that low-carb/"high" fat diets do not increase total cholesterol or LDL (noted by several posters). The study has relatively low power, however, since the number of study subjects is rather small and genetically homogeneous. These results beg for a larger, longer study. We can only hope...

The posts that opine that these studies can only be done in highly controlled circumstances should look a little closer at the "methods and materials" section of this study. This group of individuals is indeed isolated, travel restricted, and tightly monitored. They were not compensated for their participation. They had no additional incentives to participate. It is unlikely that any group that is not incarcerated will exceed these parameters--this is probably as good as the control will ever get.

The relatively small average absolute weight loss is noted and criticized. This speaks to a) inadequate calorie restriction (indeed, the low-carb diet had NO caloric restriction) or b) inadequate exercise or c) both of the above. Once again this begs for a follow-up study where a more aggressive caloric restriction is imposed on those study subjects who are clearly overweight, as well as a companion study of FIT individuals that would study serum lipids in the various diet strategies in the ABSENCE of caloric restriction. We here would predict that these follow-up studies would validate this one.

We should all be thankful that it was the NEJM that published this study, for this journal simply cannot be ignored by either the lay press or the various governmental agencies that hold a stake in this conversation. We should further all hope that the vascular surgeon above is the point man for an insurgency in the medical community; today the pariah, tomorrow the messiah. Kudos to you, Sir.

Applications for us here, chez CF? Well, for those of us who Zone, Paleo, Zone/Paleo, Zone Light, etc. we now have ammunition when we are challenged to "prove" that what we eat is safe and effective, ammunition that is acceptable to the non-CF'er. We are now "free" to experiment if we wish with food/diet as fuel, both for life in general and for our type of Crossfit performance in particular.

3-2-1...Go.

Comment #134 - Posted by: Maximus @ CF East Bay 41/178#/5' 8" at July 23, 2008 3:01 PM

Really Good LONG Taub lecture:

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216

Yes! Thank-you for the link to the enjoyable lecture! excellent stuff!

Do you think if he dropped the tire that it would hit the ground or get stuck around his midsection?

Go crazy husband go! That's what I'm talking about! :-)

Out of town with family in