No rest for the wicked. I'll do some drills on my new rings.

yeah

I have a question about the variation in recent workouts. When I started CrossFitting almost a year ago (May 20 is my anniversary) it seemed like there was a lot more variation in the workouts than there has been recently. Let me explain that a little more. I'm mainly referring to workouts that are not in CrossFit's collection of named workouts, ME workouts, or others that come up frequently like 30 muscle-ups for time, run 5k, etc. For lack of a better term, I'll refer to these as "novel workouts" since we either don't see them twice, or are very infrequent. To get some concrete information, I went back and counted the number of novel workouts in some months. Here are some numbers:

Month # of Novel Workouts
June 2007 | 6
July 2007 | 7

Jan. 2008 | 3
Feb. 2008 | 4
Mar. 2008 | 2

So there has definitely been a decrease as of late. I can't help but wonder if this change is departing somewhat from CrossFit's stated mantra of "constantly varied" workouts. It just seems like I'm getting used to doing the same named workouts (Fran, Michael, Cindy, etc...) over and over again. But I never tire of a novel workout. The anticipation, the not knowing how it will feel...how your body will respond is a big part of the appeal of CrossFit. Now don't get me wrong, I really enjoy seeing a benchmark workout that shows concrete evidence of the huge fitness improvements I've been experiencing. But lately it seems like every day is a benchmark day. Another example is that we just did a 3-day sequence of ME deadlift, Cindy, Michael. Back on Jan. 7 we did ME front squat, Cindy, Michael. These sequences seem like they're beginning to be too familiar.

Now, I'm not trying to needlessly complain or be ungrateful for the people who are generous enough to make the CrossFit prescription freely available on the internet. I'm perfectly capable of creating my own novel workouts and doing them instead, but I like the community comparisons. I like the thought that someone who has more fitness experience than me is tailoring workouts with a plan in mind and not just pulling a workout from a pre-made list and throwing it up on the site. I'm just bringing this up in the spirit of constructive discussion about workout variation, so please don't give me the "suck it up, or leave" line. If the workout-makers have intentionally chosen this for a specific purpose, I'd love to hear what it is. If they've just been abnormally busy lately and haven't had the time to come up with more novelty, that's fine too. I just hate to see what I perceive as a loss of the hopper-style novelty that I love about CrossFit and has been stated to be one of the core elements of the fitness we pursue. Comments? Thoughts? Am I just too nitpicky?

P.S. You could argue that the stimulus is still constantly varied enough that our bodies won't adapt to it. And I would probably agree with you. But I think it's still clear that lately it hasn't been as varied as it used to be.

When was today's picture taken?! Are there CrossFitters in the SC upstate?! If so, email me...I am in Greenville, SC for the summer, and a friend and I are the only ones we know of that do any sort of CrossFit here.

Well put Alison. Looking forward to rest day.

Nice Video Allison! great job, keep it up!
I have been doing Crossfit for 4 months now, and cant beleive how i have changed in such a short amount of time.....now i hope to maintain this as a lifestyle.

Ok, So first off, after watching this video I now have a whole different perspective on Allison. I'm not going to lie at first I was a little opinionated about her, but this video shows her in a differnt light. Just want to say sorry to her and that she is definetly right about showing off what crossfit has done for so many people! I know that I like seeing hot boys on the site and idolizing sexy women as well! Also it is good to see people like Allison who have such a passion for what they do. Keep up the hard work!!

MB, you aren't the only one who has noticed that.
I was getting a little bored with them too and it was one of the reasons I moved to Coach B's site for a bit. I'm getting back into it slowly but so far have made my own "novel" wod's based on stuff I suck at. Today was a tabata mash up of double unders and wall balls after my olympic lifting workout.
Nice video by the way. Admittedly I was one who had said enough of AllisonNYC already to myself but I liked how she came across today.

Rock on CaliAllie!

I agree

"A fit human body is a beautiful thing"

or as my Ma used to say "a thing of beauty and a joy forever"

rest days suck. will work on cleans. 17:21 Michael today... felt slow.

"We all look like we are supposed to look when we are at our strongest. Because of Crossfit."

I think I got that right. I liked that line. That's rich. Allison, you are a joy.

I was on the winning team in the over 200 lb class of the mud run back in 1985. The Sea Cows! Hoo yah!

Hard to know quite what to do with that website, but I will put forward my own view of pornography.

There is a fundamental tension at times between what in principle should be allowed, and what arguably is in the interest of furthering the emotional and spiritual growth of our nation.

My opinion is that pornography should be legal, including so-called torture porn. I just don't think anyone should watch it. It's one thing to say I believe consuming these things--particularly obsessively as many people do--is unhealthy. It's quite another to declare they should be illegal.

Yet, I often see an analogue to the defenses offered by people who manifestly do not have the interests of our nation in mind to the accusation they lack patriotism. They focus not on the content of the charge, but on their right to make it.

Likewise with pornography. They focus on their civil rights--which in this case may have been unjustly curtailed--but not on the overarching moral question of what good they are working to accomplish.

I watched a minute of the dance scene. He keeps saying "pleasures of the flesh". You know what? No pleasure of the flesh equals the pleasures of emotional tranquility, and an earned pride in your own character and what you have accomplished. None of them.

There is a difference between quality and quantity in one's sexual life. Sex with someone you love is a very different experience than sex with some babe you met in the bar tonight. I've done both many times, and I'm speaking from experience.

What pornography does, in my view, is poison the nature of the relationship between the sexes such that things are physical first, and the emotional and spiritual connection, if it develops at all, only develops much later, in far too many cases.

I have seen marriages broken up over addictions to pornography, and frankly I see few positive values in it. Every once in a while I'll go look at Playboy or something, but rarely, and I know perfectly well that is very tame by internet standards. I just don't like what watching those films does to me.

It goes deeper than this, but that's all I have time for tonight. I'm not a prude, not particularly religious, and really just speaking from a perspective oriented around what works to create the sort of profound happiness and security we all want, and what doesn't. I don't think porn works. It's that simple. It's a pragmatic position.

Maybe interview some other women for a change. Nothing against Allison, just makes sense to have some variety.

porn is to sex as television is to Crossfit

33 m 193#

Bastardized Amundson/CFWU x 3

I'm still trying to fulfil my new year's resolution of doing all the named workouts this year, as rx. So, last night, I did Josh:

As rx: 11:50

However, I don't think the time is very accurate because the Taliban decided to lob some rockets at KAF last night and I spent 45 minutes in the middle of the last round in a bunker. I stopped my clock before bugging out and then went back to finish the workout but with the long rest, I think I hammered out the last few a little quicker than I would have. At least I finished.

Also, the internet filters here won't let me open today's article (because of the word "porn"). Could somebody email it to me or something?

I normally point out AllisonNYC/AllieCali to my female friends who think that they couldn't do crossfit or are afraid tro try it. If nothing else it ALWAYS wins my arguement that anyone can learn this from any level if they continue their education they can do things they didn't think were possible. She is also a great example to point out to my female friends who think that crossfit will make them look like a man. I just go to a video of Allison and say, "See you can lift weights and still have sweet chesticles." I'm not sure if that line does more harm than good, but it always ends the arguement.

I concur with the use of novel workouts, Ive been doing Crossfit for over a year, Of which I have just returned from Iraq. I used Crossfit to better myself for Iraq and I used Crossfit to get my troops in shape for the harsh weather a pace of combat. I have never felt better with a workout program than I have with Crossfit, but it has been a bit flat lately. Some one here once posted a link to Navy Seal Crossfit WODS I'm here to tell you its a whole new level of pain and fitness if you can make it through. With that I say Crossfit is the best program that is out there bar-none Its really what you make out of it.

Why the article, "defend our porn?" Porn is perverted and disgusting! It is very destructive to the family. Does Crossfit support this kind of trash? I thought Crossfit was about fitness, and not lewdness. If this is something Crossfit supports, then they can go to hell. I will no longer support them!

Anyone willing to help judge the CFT at the East Coast Challenge? If so, send me an e-mail. Thanks.

Nothing like getting the point across by dropping the F bomb in as many ways as possible. Hey, who cares if you sound like trailer trash right?

I got my first muscle up today! I am very happy. Woohooo yaaaaahhh!!!
I found that starting at full arm extension then pull hard while kipping was my ticket. I have been practicing the transition but did not focus on everything else.

There will be many people that bitch about today's rest day topic, some of my friends among them. Let me be the first today to say that I am proud to be associated with CrossFit, for many reasons that have nothing to do with exercise. Contrary to what I have said before, the only thing in life more important that strength is Liberty.

Mark Rippetoe

So many times we want an excuse for personal license with no repercussions or accountability. We want our cake and eat it, too. Where do we draw the line regarding pornography? How much is over-the-top?

Defending pornography is not the same as defending freedom because true freedom comes from responsibility and respect for others. There is no correlation between pornography (that which is designed to cause lust) and art. Freedom of speech is designed to bring to alarm abuse by the Government, not to showcase a Crucifix in urine.

If an act depicted in pornography is against the law, then those who perpetrate that must be held accountable, in their depiction, for violating the law. How can we justify freedom when we refuse to pay the cost regarding responsibility and accountability?

I want the freedom to go 100 mph in a 55 mph zone without the repercussions of a ticket, but that doesn't mean I'm not deserving of it.

Does the government have nothing better to do than prosecute pornographers, like maybe prosecute murderers, sexual predators, or look for a solution to the overcrowded prison system. Instead, they use up court time and resources to infringe on people's first amendment rights. I don't agree with the ease that minors are able to get some of this material, but let's face it, kids will always be resourceful.

On another note, the military was also contemplating banning the sale of "sexually explicit" magazines from exchange stores. According to the interpretation, this could include magazines like Maxim and FHM. We are the country's defenders and we're being treated like 8 year-old children. We fight for the country's freedom and yet we find our own individual freedoms curtailed in new ways every day. I, for one, am growing weary of this prosecution and can't watch idly in the sidelines while puritan politicians take perverse pleasure in depriving every one else of theirs.

Wow John and Silverback overreact much. It really amazes me that people can go through something as vicious as a crossfit, but are still freaked out by at nudity or think that dropping an fbomb automatically makes you sound like trailer trash.
"It is very destructive to the family" are you serous?

Intent: I'm with you! Today we got to say, "Oh my God she can speak" instead of "look at those boobs!"

The great editing and the fact that she (Allison) came across in a better light, probably deserved some main page exposure. If the intent was to bring more traffic to the affiliate blog, it's working! Usually the word "coffee" does that to my affiliate blog.

Don't make my liberal mother right! She said it was only a matter of time before the government started using the Patriot Act as a way to terrorize the American people. I'm assuming because the date in the movie was March of 2011, Stagliano's FBI scenario was fictitious?

MB:
You have a valid point (I've noticed the same thing) but you may get a better response by taking your question to the message boards.

I agree with John, #16 about the "defend our porn", except for damning crossfit to hell. I am dissapointed, though.

Duh, I am on the main page! Usually don't post here because it's overwhelming.

Regarding "Defend Our Porn," it should be noted that pleasure alone is not a sufficient basis for determining which actions are right, otherwise tyrants would rightly abuse their subjects. Many times doing the right thing can be unpleasant or even painful.

#27
"Many times doing the right thing can be unpleasant or even painful." ie, GWOT

#3 The workout novelty is a valid point, though my mind notices it more than my body does. I still work hard blasting through the 30 muscle ups (or in my case, 120 pullups/dips). I'd just like more of the girl workouts to come up, especially LINDA!!! Ok, if my last posting didn't set you off, this might make you hate me - or love me. This is crossfit, after all, and I love it!

Slippery slope. Who's to say what is obscene? I don't want someone who's beliefs differ from mine dictating what I can and cannot watch, and I imagine that the opposite is true. The hallmark of America and Democracy is freedom, the freedom to do and say as you wish, and to IGNORE or AVOID that which displeases you. You do NOT have a right to not be offended. Societies that limit speech that is deemed potentially offensive (note: which differs from illegal, a distinction that #21 was smart to point out) are only harming themselves.

#20-Sage words coach.

#16, John, writes,

"Porn is perverted and disgusting! It is very destructive to the family. Does Crossfit support this kind of trash? . . . If this is something Crossfit supports, then they can go to hell. I will no longer support them!"

It is clear how you feel about porn.

Are you arguing that porn should be illegal?

Are you arguing that those who would defend speech that you personally find "perverted and disgusting" are unworthy of your support?

MB - whenever a WOD posts that seems like "iceberg lettuce" I usually pull a workout from a different site. I think doing so is still in the spirit of Crossfit as it is always varied, and always sucks (in a good way!). When I do this, I pick workouts that will force me to better my weaknesses or just straight destroy my body.
Recently I've started using a protective mask (to restrict breathing) for the easier WODs. It forces a completely different response from my body and I've noticed that my O2 efficiency has increased when I'm not wearing it.
God bless!

#23: Trust me on this one, I was holding way back. I recently purchased two CF T-shirts, and subscribed to the CF journal. They may all be going in the trash!

I will no longer support CrossFit at work, and I work for a company with over 7000 employees. Unless someone from this organization issues a formal apology, I will do all in my power to steer as many people as possible away from CF and the trash it supports.

I was personally offended by the video, and may even seek legal action against CF for having published it. I demand the person responsible for posting the article is publicly reprimanded, and or terminated.
-Out!

I just wanted to say that I thought Allison was wonderfully real and authentic - the way passionate people talk about things when they're not afraid that anyone's watching. The way we'd talk among friends.

And I'm glad it's a rest day.

Been doing this only two months now, have packed on upper body muscle mass faster than I would have thought possible for an old guy. I started looking for a new way to gain enthusiasm for a routine, and am very much enjoying the not knowing part, until the WOD gets released. Wanted to lose weight, but have mostly re-distributed it - and I'm fine with that. I am continually surprised to see how much I look forward to the off days at the end of a three day stretch, and on off days, how much I look forward to the new WOD.

#21, jNeal, writes,

"If an act depicted in pornography is against the law, then those who perpetrate that must be held accountable, in their depiction, for violating the law."

Are you arguing that a movie that depicts a a bank robbery should be illegal because bank robbery is illegal?

My Vibram Five Fingers came today. It took about an hour to get used to them and now its official that I love them. I can't wait to work out in them. I'm going on travel to Eglin AFB tomorrow and I'll be wearing these on the plane.

#22 A_Martinez - There is currently a bill in Congress that will eliminate Playboy, Penthouse and a whole bunch of others from the exchanges. I don't think it includes Maxim and FHM, but your point applies to this bill.

Hello All!!!!!!!! I am new to cross fit and hooked. I am a day behind and just completed my first CINDY. Eleven rounds (scaled).

30/F/130

Not to be totaly off subject, but enlarge that image and am I not mistaken, thats an over weight John travolta in the back ground? maybe getting in cross-fit shape for his next role?

#23, Going through something "as vicious as crossfit" has nothing to do with it. Where do you see a relation? There is a time and place for everything. I am an affiliate and our group's intensity and quest for health with CrossFit has made me proud. When they go to the HQ website, it would be nice to think that they can see and read things that make them feel the same pride in being a part of it. Yeah, we can be in your face. We get nasty, turn up some loud hard music, scream and yell, but having good taste when you represent a community that has done so much for so many seems like a simple move to me.

Not to be totaly off subject, but enlarge that image and if im not mistaken, thats an over weight John travolta in the back ground? maybe getting in cross-fit shape for his next role?

why the porn??? seriously??? is the point to bring about discussion?

thin the herd.

CCTJOEY... "I like Porn just because you don't"

#21, JNeal

You said:

"Freedom of speech is designed to bring to alarm abuse by the Government, not to showcase a Crucifix in urine."

Two obviously different examples, probably meant to show that there's some dividing point between acceptable and unacceptable "speech." The simple problem is this:
1) Where is that point of division, and
2) Who are you willing to empower to make that distinction on your behalf? To whom are you willing to give that power OVER YOU?

I am not willing to give anyone, especially the government (and I'm a liberal:) the power to decide what sort of speech I should be protected from. That's my own job, thank you very much. I am strong enough and intelligent enough to judge for myself what I consider offensive.

A great speech on this topic was given a while back by Christopher Hitchens. Here's the youtube link (WFS):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUphTYPMB4o

Speaking as a guy who can take it or leave it, I do find it mildly surprising that someone can click through a link entitled "Defend our porn" and then manifest outrage that they've been, you know: Exposed to porn. In the 21st century. On the Internet.

#33 John, reading your first post I thought you were serious but after this post it sounds like you're pulling my leg. The article posted is meant to stir discussion, which is exactly what it's doing. To get so bent out of shape because an issue is being discussed seems crazy to me. I didn't notice crossfit taking a position for or against porn, just posted a link to an article and asked to post thoughts to the comments.

If you are intent on leaving the community over this it reminds me of this article.

http://positivesharing.com/2008/03/top-5-reasons-why-the-customer-is-always-right-is-wrong/

John #16

The rest day articles don't necessarily reflect the views of Coach Glassman or the CrossFit community; they are intended to provoke intelligent debate.

Obviously, you are opposed to porn from a moral standpoint, but what is your view on the rights of those who do not share your opinion? Do you feel that people do not have a right to view and produce porn? If not, why? Furthermore, you claim that porn is "very destructive to the family". In what way?

Beyond that, and regardless of your opinion on the subject of porn, I think the main purpose for sighting this article is to stimulate debate on our right to privacy and to what extent the government should have control over our personal lives and how we express ourselves, both publicly and privately. Personally, I feel that if there are certain persons who wish to be filmed having sex and others who wish to view it, that is their perogetive. If you don't like porn, then don't watch it. If you think it's immoral, then that is your opinion and you have a right to it. Likewise, others have a right to their opinion, and it may differ form your own. Thus is the nature of liberty. We must be thankful for our freedom, even if we don't like the way that everyone uses it.

For #31:

I’m not making an argument for or against porn on this sight, let’s get that perfectly straight! I’m saying I do not want those I love, and or work for, or with, being exposed to the evil associated with porn.

If CrossFit as an organization is supporting porn, then they are not only unworthy of my support, they are worse then the terrorist I have trained to kill, and the murderers I have placed in prison!

Porn is at the root of the most evil men I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. If an individual watches that trash, then that is there business.

I however am vehemently apposed to porn and everyone that knows me knows this. If I recommend someone to CrossFit, and they view articles like the one posted on today’s rest day “defend our Porn,” then it infers I support it. Get it?

Porn has nothing to do with free speech, and it has no place on a public fitness sight, and if you think it does, you are a moron.

#32 MWade,

I certainly have no problem with doing your own thing, whatever that may be. I'm familiar enough with CrossFit's ideas to easily come up with my own workouts. However, I feel that there is a lot to be gained from sticking with the main site WOD. First, there's improved continuity. You're not going to accidentally do something that combines poorly. Second, there's community--a large group of very fit people who post results with which you can compare. And I'm sure these aren't the only two.

The reason I'm bringing the issue up is because I like sticking with the main WOD because of all the extra value you get thrown in, and because I don't want to lose that if the WODs deteriorate (even a little) from what they used to be.

Summary: I drank the kool-aid. Now I care about it, so why are you watering it down?

#33 John

Bye! Nobody's going to miss you here in Liberty Land. Maybe the Taliban is recruiting this week. Sounds like you have a future with them.

OMG CAN WE GET OVER IT ALREADY!!! Yes, Allison is great, BUT has anyone considered that she may be a "crossfit groupie". She is in way too many videos, comments, pics. etc. I know there are many more women out there in Crossfit, so let's talk about them too.

Stagliano writes: "There is war in America, on the American people. It takes the form of trying to kill pleasure."

It is important to realize that the use of power, to control the lives of others, is itself a great a source of pleasure to many. And that is truly dangerous, evil, and filthy behaviour.

s.

#45, John, write,

"I however am vehemently apposed to porn and everyone that knows me knows this. If I recommend someone to CrossFit, and they view articles like the one posted on today’s rest day “defend our Porn,” then it infers I support it. Get it?"

So, if a given professor at a university makes an argument in defense of porn, you want nothing to do with that university? Fair enough. I am in no way arguing that you need to associate yourself with anyone or any thing that holds a viewpoint different than your own.

"Porn has nothing to do with free speech, and it has no place on a public fitness sight, and if you think it does, you are a moron."

You consider this an argument?

Men fight for freedom, then they begin to accumulate laws to take it away from themselves.

John - After you are done whining exercise your freedom to leave.

MB - that is why i have not been posting much lately. I usually end up making up my own WOD and then if possible, doing the one from the main page also.

I am new to CF and am now starting to realize that not only do you provide a great opportunity to exercise the body, but the mind as well.

#20 Mr Rippetoe

Your statement is correct "the only thing in life more important than strength is Liberty".

Moreover, your educational vids are incredibly inspiring and your proper deadlift alignment theory is brilliant.

#39
I see the relation in being completely honest. Crossfit can be vicious and some times people swear when they feel strongly about something. You could say it's my "empiracal observation." I don't see it as negative,
if anything it was positive. She was talking about looking at something in an honest and mature manner. What good would it do to sugarcoat something?

Besides this was a situation when Allison was talking in a very relaxed envoironment. It wasn't like she was in a public setting. Yes the video became public, but how was Allison to know what was going to be posted? Being a film major, I am sure that there were hours of footage shot.
You never know what makes a story.
I for one, am proud that this video was posted and was impressed with both Allison's honesty and Coach or whomever post the discussions and vids courage to bring this issue up. That's my crossfit, courage and honesty no matter what the situation.

John,#45,

It seems that you have little support in this area about porn. Porn destroys relationships, ends marriages, gives false expectations towards relationships and detaches a person from reality regarding their true sexual purpose in life.
I wish that Glassman would quit trying to sell sex to sell his programming. Anyone else think that a video with Allison and how it was presented has anything to do todays rest topic?
#47, you are retarded - please stop breathing my oxygen.
# 3 - I support you too - and I have started to explore other options such as www.gymjones.com and www.mtnathlete.com. Smart programming mixed with variation all the time.

Peace!

#45 John, tell us how you really feel...

I'm with you CCTJOEY

#45

Although I agree with you that I was a bit taken aback by the fact that pornography is being discussed on a fitness site, I think there's more to it than that. I assume you did not view the link (your choice, nothing wrong with that), but the point of the link posted was with reference to freedom of expression, ie first amendment rights. A person who would read the article would pick up on that and realize the argument being made did not necessarily depend on the context-the argument would hold if the article discussed the reading of controversial literature in a school, or newspaper publishing statements supporting a radical political position in the interests of "equal time." To say that pornography has nothing to do with free speech is patently incorrect. Numerous federal court cases have dealt with precisely this issue (see American Booksellers Association v. Hudnut, 598 F.Supp. 1316, Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, 535 U.S. 234, et al for examples of the breadth of the impact the 1st amendment can have on free speech). We as a society must be prepared to confront and discuss topics that are unpleasant if we are to progress intellectually, socially, and even morally.

Although I have the utmost respect for you personal beliefs (whatever they may be) and your position on this matter, I do feel that vilifying CF for "supporting" pornography over-reaches. The idea behind what was posted is sound, even if it's method of delivery is questionable.

If I did not believe in free speech I would tell you to shut up John

out!!!

#43: what I was referring to was to showcase the intent of the framers of the Constitution. The excuse given for TAXPAYER subsidy for the Crucifix art was the First Amendment. I am not discussing censorship of anti-religious art.

It's just that I saw the title and it says post thoughts. I believe that legally, pornography is not a protected freedom because it is different from showing Government corruption. I don't recall any Supreme court rulings with pornography being declared Constitutionally-protected free speech.

Again, the intent of the framers did not include unrestrained pornography with total license. People want to stretch intent of the First amendment to fit what they want, but I don't hear the same support given to the Second Amendment.

John,#45, I'm with you on this. It seems that if you cross Glassman's thought process you are bastardized from Crossfit forever. People don't want to hear from other people that they are doing something wrong and the fact that people have been desensitized to so many things over the course of their lifetime is discouraging. When they do they lash out and ostricize the person. I fully expect something of that nature here - but I don't care.
I wish Glassman would quit selling sex to sell his product - the numbers should speak for themselves. Is it any wonder that how the video was presented today (not what SHE said) in accordance with todays rest topic was anything but deliberate?
Porn is evil. Porn divides, porn destroys. It gives false expectations on relationships. It makes people loose touch with their true sexuality. If it's ok, would you show your children hard core F#$#ing? I suspect not - probably b/c you know it's wrong deep down inside. I support you John - no matter what other people may say - "the Taliban is hiring?" come on! Grow up.
# 3 - I don't think you are being too picky and I have noticed the trends as well. I have researched other alternatives such as the gym jones and the mtn athlete websites for other variances that have Crossfit influences.

Hey life is full of ups down ins and outs. Its not about control its about composure. We will come across many things in life some will be complimentry to our lifestyle and beliefs and others will conflict. Porn happens to be one many people have extreemly variouse and hard set opinions on. Its not important we support or oppose to these acts its how we react to them that defines us within our community. AllisonNYC really spoke well on this very subject in the video posted on the same day as the article involving the concept of the legality of pornograghy. We are here not to argue or get our "panties all in a bunch" we are here for the fact we would like to enjoy intelectual discourse on a social format with our peirs. By expressing our opinions with respect and showing a little acceptance we at crossfit may be able to gain a brodder more wholistic perspective on how we as a community can exist with eachother. For all our variouse traits and imperfections we are still put on this earth together and so we have two choices. One gain some cmpasion and uderstand the world is bigger than how I feel. Or two just butt out. It is the beliefe that one person, culture, religion, nationality, or race could have a more correct judgment of the right way to live that brings us such greats as Aldolf Hitler, Saddom Heussaine, and Osama Bin Ladin. Lets put aside the ritouse attitudes and just agree to disagree. Then lets go one stepp further and embrace our differences learn to love the ability to be an individual. Finaly lets stnd and fight for the God givin rights of Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, not at the cost of others rights but for the good of all.

That may be some idealist garbage to some but hey atleast I am aware its only my opinion and not everyone is gonna agree.

Thanx crossfit you have changed my life.

I missed Michael today I will make it up in the morning and catch up.

I think some people on here missed the point, specifically John #33 etc.

I am reasonably sure that CrossFit does not support porn.

CrossFit supports freedom.

When you start restricting freedom, sometimes it is difficult to stop. I agree with all above who have said this in one form or another.

Why are we hung up on porn?

----

MB - You are definitely right. WODs have been a bit flat lately. I think we are all doing the right thing by being creative and using what we have learned about variation from the past. Perhaps there is a method to this madness...

It is interesting how some of claim to support freedom of speech, until of course someone says something you disagree with. When this happens, then the only freedom you support is the freedom to tell that person where to go. Hypocrites!

Why is my comment not being posted - 2x I have written and it has not posted - I see that it is being held for approval by the blog's administrator. If this is opinion based, then why are you are you not posting my thoughts to the board - do you have somthing to loose?

I am also disappointed in the pornography post. I recently started my 10 year old son on CrossFit kids. This is not the kind of material I want my son exposed to.

My business partner and I are about to open two gyms in our home town and CrossFit is going to be a major part of our operation. We will be offering CrossFit to kids. What am I supposed to tell the parents of my students when they go to the CrossFit web site and there's pornographic material staring them in the face? I do not want to answer those kinds of questions.

My business partner recently received his level 1 certification and we just sent in the paper work for an affiliation. It would be very disappointing if we had to disassociate ourselves from CrossFit. I'm not going to make any rash judgments based on one incident, but if CrossFit is going to move in this direction we will have to reevaluate our association with them.

There are numerous sites on the web where porn can be viewed. I truly hope CrossFit will never again be one of them.

#33 John is a wacko!! Legal Action! (not that you would have a legal leg to stand on), good riddance!

Isn't the freedom of speech and press clause in the 1st Amendment about speaking against the Federal Government? Can someone please help me understand the connection between freedom of speech and pornography? Was the "right" to display acts of sex and sensuality part of the motive behind the 1st Amendment? How is speaking out against the actions of a government and pornography connected in the 1st Amendment?

#33 John
Calm down a second... if you are sincere, and not presenting a straw man, help me understand what you're talking about when you say:
"Porn is at the root of the most evil men I have ever had the displeasure of meeting."

#61-although your position is understandable, the article is not in defense of pornography so much as it is in defense of free speech. Those who are willing will be able to see the difference.

John,

You may be on to something with the 'pornography is evil' thing. Just look at the hate it's created in your heart. I'll pray for you tonight. Seriously.

BTW, the poster, Lauren, is Coach's wife. Don't hold your breath for the firing or public condemnation.

#4, we did the USMC mudrun May 4, 2008. We are the Laurens posse. It was a four mile obstacle course. With lots of mud!!!! I thought the same thing about John Travolta. The picture even looks like it was overlayed in the background, lol.
About the porn thing. If it is an issue of FREE speach then why is the porn industry a multi-billion dollar enterprise??? It is only about money.Do not let these idiots fool anyone into thinking they are doing it for anything except that. JOHN STAGLIANO looks like a good candidate to be caught by Chris Hansen and the Dateline news crew with a case of Uncle Mikes Hard Lemonade going to meet some 14 year old. Hopefully a taser will be required. Porn is similar to abortion in that it leaves a wake of broken lives and a whole bunch of cash flow all wrapped up in the U.S. Constitution. SEMPER FI "WE BEAR NOT THE SWORD IN VAIN"

Also #61 (I swear I am not trying to pick on you)-you do realize that crossfit kids has it's own website that you can link parents to directly? I can see where you are coming from 100%, but you can avoid trouble for yourself by directing them to crossfitkids.com directly...

Just my $.02...

I have been doing CrossFit for almost a year and a half. In that time I have realized that whatever is posted in the comments does nothing to change CrossFit. Yet, I have an opinion and this is the only place it can be heard.

Maybe the article (maybe the video, too) today is a tongue-in-cheek ploy about the freedoms citizens in the US enjoy, but it reflects poorly on CrossFit and I think it is unprofessional. It is another example of why I use the workouts, but have not supported CrossFit monetarily. It is also another reason why I don't tell friends or people in the gym about CrossFit; my recommendation would suggest I support the views and expressions of the site. There are a lot of good things here, but often the negative things overshadow them.

I also agree with #3 MB. I am glad I am not the only one who is starting to question the WOD pattern.

My last topic is the "groupiness" that CrossFit has seemed to ooze in the last 6-8 months. I don't mind people jumping on the band wagon, but cherry-picking workouts, filling the comments with worthless drivel, and turning a WOD, or a picture, or a video into a social-hour-meat-market-for-time experience is disappointing.

First of all, for those who didn't click through, the video is a modern art dance thing with everyone but one person wearing as much or more clothes than you see on an average beach and the single person is wearing what is equivalent to paint or gold flecks so her nipples aren't really showing. It is no worse than the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue with the body paint. And yes, your teenage boys do look at that issue, even if they have to find a friend of a friend... and the rest of the site is filled with text and *gasp* legal briefs and *double gasp* news reports. Hmm... where's the porn? I don't agree with porn myself, but just because the word shows up does not mean it is there and we're all bad people for clicking through and reading the article.

#61

I think you definitely have a point. I believe it could still be possible to stimulate a discussion on this subject without a link to questionable content, I imagine the article alone would have sufficed. Many people do access the site and some of them are only admitted to G rated movies.

#57

I read your post several times. I tried to see your point of view, but I could not get my head that far up my anus.

So if one person has a belief in a more correct way to live, that makes them a mass murder like Hitler? You are a total whack job! You speak of God given rights, do you even know God?

I think the porn article was posted to stimulate discussion. Maybe it wasn't intended to start a discussion of whether CF supports porn, but rather a first ammendment conversation like J stated in comment #54. I don't think that CrossFit is trying to support the pornography business by posting it. I think these articles are meant to be approached with an open mind to provoke some thought. They are not posted to push beliefs.

MB comment 3 Why are crossfit workouts becoming less varied?

I concur with your assessment that there are less novel workouts now then there have been in the past and your question is valid.

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

Great video Allison! I think it is your best yet.

With out writing out a long preloge of thought I will add the following.t

We all have to remember that an aesthetically pleasing body is a by product of CrossFit. I can admit that developing an attractive body is a welcomed side effect or response to "forging elite fitness". How could our bodies respond in any other way if we dedicate our selves to doing the
WOD? I am over 39 yeas old and I am in the best shape of my life and all I do is the rx'd WOD.

If there are followers of CrossFit that can appreciate the "sexiness" that CrossFit can provide then more power to them. I admit I am one of them.

I also admit that at 39 years old I definitely don't mind having the body and fitness level of most 20 something males. I can claim both only because I have been a dedicated trainee in CrossFit for the past year. I also make every effort to eating on the Zone.

#33 John, I personally think you're missing the point of this discussion topic. Keyword being "dicussion." I see nowhere that CrossFit claims to support pornography. The point of the rest day post, IMO, is to have something to dicuss intillectually and rationally.

You're making a highly irrational conculsion if you believe because they posted something dealing with porn as a discussion topic that they support it out right. There is no evidence to support that claim. I could go make the conclusion from your post that you must be some Bible-totting self righteous Christian but in all regards that would be completely unfair and wrong.

As far as you no longer supporting CrossFit. That is all fine and well, it is your choice. It is NOT however your responsibility to outright "...steer as many people as possible away from CF..." These are you own beliefs, you have no right to try and self impose them on others. Also, just because you are or were a supporter of CrossFit does not mean you share the same beliefs as the topics they post and in your apparent opinion "support." I think we are all old enough and/or mature enough to draw our conculsions.

And now for something completely different...

Great vid by Allison.

I will NEVER understand why people are so concerned with what other people do in their own homes! Only those with no life of their own can possibly have the time to worry about and pass judgement on the private things people do by themselves.

CrossFit Kids Cert tomorrow morning! Can't wait to wake up and continue my CrossFit education.

I'm really looking forward to being able to share CrossFit with my 3 year old brother Ethan. There are lots of kids who can really use a fitness program like CrossFit. . Especially in NYC. I plan on doing my part to help them get it.

Thank you Coach!

Had dinner tonight with some excellent people from So Cal. I'm never surprised how many wonderful people there are in this community.

I liked the video. I'm proud to be a CrossFitter.

The only thing that I didn't like was me sipping the Jamba Juice. Those days are SO over. Mango Madness is definitely not on the Zone.

I'm really hoping that this "defend our porn" article was posted just to promote discussion and Crossfit doesn't actually support the porn industry. If a young impressionable lad like myself were to find out that Crossfit is actively defending pornography, I would feel like someone just told me Santa isn't real :(

Anyways on the subject of AllisonNYC: No offense to you but I never was a big fan of yours until this video. It seemed to me like your were getting way too much attention solely because of your... endowments. Now however I really feel like you are a hardworking, intelligent woman who is as deserving as anyone for a 6 part series =]

"BTW, the poster, Lauren, is Coach's wife. Don't hold your breath for the firing or public condemnation."

That is enough for me my friend. Thanks for exposing the source. I was really hoping Lauren was a mistake, and not the wife of the man I was beginning to admire. No more CrossSmut for me, or my organization. Trust me, many more like me will do likewise.

As far as the hate, your darn right I hate. I hate evil, and porn is very evil. It destroys lives, marriages, and now, if it is embraced by CF, it will destroy it to.

Psalm 97:10:
0 Let those who love the Lord hate evil,
for he guards the lives of his faithful ones
and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

Proverbs 8:13
To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I (God) hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.

Well, I just came back from a meal with some family members and was raving about crossfit with the brother-in-law and asked him to give it a shot. If this discussion is the first thing he sees or reads about crossfit, well, to be frank, I'd be mighty embarrassed. It is really a shame.

I am raving about the exercises, the nutrition, the o-lifts, etc. He may not understand the discussion day thing....

Porn, Crossfit groupies, and Tired Routines.

Yes, I know it is a discussion but, this discussion does crossfit a huge disservice.

Your Still Here?

I think the porn link was put up to show us that the government (FBI and what other agencies?) are using the rights given them under the Patriot Act to do more than fight terrorists. If this is true, then isn't that over-stepping by our government? I agree that porn isn't good and certain kinds are illegal according to our laws, but that doesn't give the government the right to do illegal search and seizure on their own people to fight something they already have ways of fighting. The Bigger Brother aspect is starting to come true in this country. I'm not trying to sound like a paranoid, but we are giving up rights for security and finding ourselves no more secure but definitely with less rights.

Allowing the government to find ways to run around the system of checks and balances to keep agencies from running all over the freedoms of the people is not something we can allow. What if the next thing that gets out-lawed by the government is some form of spiritual or atheistic belief? Then all of those that believe in that are under possibility of being found out by the invasive search measures that were granted to allow the government to fight terror. At that point they would be no longer fighting terror and instead working on controlling the thoughts of the people.

I'm with you #77, I am glad AllisonNYC has finally had a chance to show some character.

Of course, I must say, anyone who doesn't think AllisonNYC is hot, raise your hand now...

...

No one?

...

Okay. That's what I thought.

John, I really think you're over reacting here. Why can't Crossfit post about a topic like porn just for discussion?

You might want to get a little more information and actually find out if Crossfit supports this before you go around cutting your ties from Crossfit and doing "all in my power to steer as many people as possible away from CF and the trash it supports."

Come on guys if you dont like porn dont watch it. You dont have to damn anyone to hell or quote the bible.

Grow up

#74 wrote:
"It is NOT however your responsibility to outright "...steer as many people as possible away from CF..." These are you own beliefs, you have no right to try and self impose them on others."

According to the article, "Protect our Porn," which many here claim is just about free speach; then it is perfectly with in my rights to do as I please, and say what ever I want, right, or is it not?

Do you believe in free speech, or don't you? What about the other constitutional rights, like freedom of religion, which includes the freedom to have a religious opinion that is different then yours?

Or the freedom to tell you to go to hell. Or does you brand of freedom only include that freedom that suits you? Sounds hypocritical to me, but such is the way of the liberal fool!

#56 jNeal:

"I don't recall any Supreme court rulings with pornography being declared Constitutionally-protected free speech."

Jacobellis v. Ohio, 378 U.S. 184 (1964); Paris Adult Theatre I v. Slaton, 413 U.S. 49 (1973); Miller v. California, 413 U.S. 15 (1973); Hamling v. United States, 418 U.S. 87 (1974); Brockett v. Spokan Arcades Inc., 472 U.S. 491 (1985); Mishkin v. New York, 383 U.S. 502 (1966); Pinkus v. United States, 436 U.S. 293 (1978); Pope v. Illinois, 481 U.S. 497 (1987); FCC v. Pacifica, 438 U.S. 726 (1978)

#61

There are many, MANY terrible things in this world you must protect your kids from... drugs, gangs, licking wall sockets, wolves, getting run over by busses, kidnappers, etc. One woman's naked boobies should be the least of your concerns. You realise anywhere you take your kids, there's a chance they might see a wonman wearing something provacative. Are you going to keep him out of the gym because he might see a hot girl? Will you never take him to the beach
for fear he might catch a nipple slip from a swimsuit adjustment? I know your kids are the most important thing in your life, just lighten up a little.

Coach Rip and CCTJoey: I'm with you.

I think this issue could have been brought up without the video feed or even with an article that actually dealt with the reasoning behind pornography being an issue of free speech. Pornography is an issue of free enterprise... not free speech. This issue is, "I am going to make my money how I want!" Free speech seems to be more an issue of freedom to say "Bush is an idiot." or "Clinton is a thug." or even (and I don't think this, "The U.S. soldier is a cold blooded killer." Without wondering whether or not the Feds are going to kick down your door and make you disappear.

From the "consumers" point of view, pornography is not about expression or communication, it is about consumption. That consumption can lead to addiction and behaviors outside of the "private life."

Next time, lets just have an article, and skip the video of naked painted women.

Out.

hi all Allison i liked your video...very nice
I've been "crossfit-ing" for about 6 weeks now
it's made a big difference in my level of fitness

Discussion about today's subject is fine.

I just hope our 14 and 15 year old clients don't watch the video. They love CrossFit. And their parents trust me.

Bummer.

#85 John

You are still posting aren't you? You still have the freedom to speak your mind and people are reading what you have to say and responding, aren't they?

If I were you I would reexamine the logic I use to reach my conclusions before I post.

Irrational thought is still thought and has a right to be heard if a person believes it, but it doesn't get as much respect as a well supported argument.

That's my take.

Freedom is a virtue, but it is best used in the pursuit of virtue.

From Pope Benedict:

"Freedom is not only a gift, but also a summons to personal responsibility. Americans know this from experience – almost every town in this country has its monuments honoring those who sacrificed their lives in defense of freedom, both at home and abroad. The preservation of freedom calls for the cultivation of virtue, self-discipline, sacrifice for the common good and a sense of responsibility towards the less fortunate. It also demands the courage to engage in civic life and to bring one's deepest beliefs and values to reasoned public debate. In a word, freedom is ever new. It is a challenge held out to each generation, and it must constantly be won over for the cause of good."

http://wcbstv.com/papalvisit/pope.benedict.speech.2.701076.html

The coaches wife, Lauren, titled the discussion:

"Defend our Porn! Protect our freedom."

The link takes you to the porn industrise own defense web page, "Defendourporn.org"

This implies that if we do not support the porn industries agenda to poison our society with their filth, then we do not support freedom.

She could have titles today's subject any number of ways. But the way she chose to title it can only be taken one way. She is defending porn. Since she is the wife of the beloved "coach," that is enough to associates the support of porn with Crossfit Inc.

Any junior CEO out there could clearly draw this conclusion. Those of you who know I am right, but are afraid to post, shame on you! To associate with evil, is to condone evil!

#85

Where in my post did I claim that the article was about free speech? Yeah, I checked it, there is no mention. I was responding to you, not whether or not people were claiming it to be about free speech.

By all means yes it is within you rights to do as you please (even if if makes you sound like incredulous dolt) again I never said it wasn't.

Yes I believe in freedom of speech, nowhere in my post did I state otherwise. I also never questioned your religious beliefs or affiliation; I have no problem with you having your own religious opinion.

Go ahead and tell me to go to hell, if there even is one. I'll meet you there. You denounce your "God" every day by sinning, ask for forgivness and do it all over again. You have no right to judge me for IF your "God" exists you are as much a sinner as I, no matter the amount. A sinner is a sinner. Since you're not Jesus Christ, you can not claim to be otherwise.

The point I was making in my last post was to say that you have NO right to impose your beliefs on others. I was NOT saying that you didn't have the right to your own opinion.

If you have any brains about you, you should have now realized that your arguement holds no weight. You have accused me of things that are utterly false.

So let us recap: YES you may say what you will. YES I believe in free speech and other constitutional rights. YES I believe you may have your own religion. NO I was not being hypocritical creating my own "brand" of freedom. Alas NOWHERE in my post(#74) did I say anything that would make one think otherwise.

Next time you want to rebuke, try a little harder to actually read and comprehend the post before you respond.

John- Good job reading the article. Maybe if you weren't staring at the dancers (I have yet to see anything mildly resembling porn) you would have realized that the issue was the misuse of the Patriot Act. But I guess you were to busy looking up bible quotes to actually think.
Next time, do us all a favor and quote something good, like maybe Dr Suess.

#56 jNeal:

Whoops, meant to add some text before posting, sorry. There's a bunch of porn-related cases in which the Supreme Court tried to come up with some rule about what's "obscene." These cases, some of which I pointed to above, show that while obscene speech is not protected, non-obscene speech generally is, and lots of porn can well be in the latter grouping. So porn, qua porn, is not without Constitutional protection, which amounts to saying that it often is Constitutionally protected.

#94

That logic is absolutely ridiculous. Yes she could have named it something else, no doubt about that. But that does not lead us to it can be "taken only one way."

Her being the wife of Coach Glassman does not reflect on his beliefs much less the beliefs of CrossFit.

AllisonNYC: great video...I find the webisodes entertaining...
John: When has the rest day topic even been an endorsement? Never. Relax. CrossFit doesn't support porn...CrossSmut does though...The 'rest-day' is about stimulating your mind. You need to think about the rest day as an excercise. All that is being discussed is people's right to freedom of speech/print...and the extreme of liberal western society - porn. Where does one's right to publish and purchase material that makes some people uncomfortable end? So, if you censor porn, how can you say you have freedom of speech/press? And relax again. So, what do you have the women of your life do the WOD in? No spandex, right? Sweatpants and sweatshirts? Seriously...legal action? Because a link you clicked on that said "porn" had some 'porn' in it? I didn't click on the link...something you don't do when you're at work and something says "porn". I understand that you are very anti-porn (and a trained killer)...do you have any other hobbies other than CrossFit? Oh, and BTW, JC hung around with prositutes and the like to 'save' them...so maybe you should stick around to help some of the very fit lost souls. Fire me an email about those t-shirts and CFJ...see about taking them off your hands or just holding them for you.
Regarding the repeats of WODs or cycles...sometimes I don't mind it...nice to see improvement when the WOD comes around in short order. That being said, if you don't like the WOD just do your own thing, or add your creativity to Coach's genius. (eg add a weight vest or do a heavy version of the WOD like Fran).

omg! i wish i signed up for the camp pendleton mud run. just looking at that picture and you know that is a great time.

#94 John

I am seeing marked improvements in your rhetoric. While I do not agree with your ideology or your conclusion, I am glad that your post shows the potential foundation for some more solid reasoning. I hope that you will further support your ideas with more sound logical progressions of thought so that a productive debate may be possible.

This "protect our porn" group lost all credibility with me by trying to set up a strawman argument against the Patriot Act. Is this Crossfit or MoveOn.org? The Patriot Act is part of the reason this country has been protected and not attacked since 9/11.

You can make your point without getting hysterical about it.

Dear blog owner,

Censoring my freedom of speech are you? Phony! I guess when the opinion of those you are offended by irritate you, then just exercise your control over them, right? I just wish I could do the same with all the people I have already led here.

Exposing crossfit.org, hay that sounds good to me. :)

-LOL

Well, here it goes...

Pornography does have addicts, and families have been destroyed by pornography...there is no upside to the business for society...

That being said it is a choice...for all involved in the production/consumption thereof.

What I don't like and take offense to is the loose use of the word FREEDOM here...if that's all I'm fighting for in the armed services...I don't want to fight anymore. Everyone answers to someone...this isn't at all what America is about.

Nice video Allison. I liked your comment on the opinions of the CF community. I've never posted any of mine, but maybe I'll start. I agree that the posts are most offten times well spoken and thought out. Thanks for the candid insight on going topless. I'll admit it's a little vain, but it's great to show what CF can do to your physical appearance. Don't be affraid to show more boobs either, especially for those of us deployed.

S/F
Katz

I find it amazing how when links are posted to political issues, hardly anyone discusses them. Yet, a link with the word "PORN" is posted and suddenly it commands attention.

To those offended... I do not think Crossfit is promoting pornography, but rather discussion of pornography and whether it has a right to exist as an art or not. We should strive to better ourselves not only physically, but on rest days better ourselves mentally. Clearly the link met its intended purpose as it has not received a great deal of attention from both sides.

PS. Sarcasm on the last line

#104 Aush

I would like to know the context in which word Freedom is herein used that displeases you. I hope none of my posts fall into that category. I feel like Freedom is a central issue to all of us and I would like to know what connotation of Freedom an Armed Forces member would hang up his/her uniform before defending. You have my respects. Thank you for your service.

#78

Don't you dare quote the bible in defense of your hatred.

Matthew 22:39 - Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These are the words of Christ. You do not get to pick and choose who you love. You love all mankind. You may disagree with some, but you can not love God with hatred of your fellow man in your heart.

And again "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

I'm a little shocked too thatarticle was linked on here. I kinda was giving the benefit of the doubt that Crossfit tried to stay "above reproach" so to speak on moral issues. They had to know that linking that would upset people, because I think they know there are alot of conservative Christians here.

On that note, I'm a little irked at how casually people will dismiss quotes from the bible and belittle and mock somone who quotes it. How about a little mutual respect? No one's scoffing at you if you DONT beleive the bible. I'm not quite as hot as John is about this and will probably continue using it as a workout program. I just know now that I will probabl steer clear from talking about anything aside from fitness with many of the diehards of the program. Anyone who thinks critically or logically would be able to easily find the research linking the use of porn to many many large issues plaguing the world. The only reason I can see that somone WOULD NOT realize this is that they were too addicted and hooked to porn to ever think of not rationalizing it as ok for them. For the record, I am with John about porn being horribly damaging.

As a final note. Allison has had her 15 minutes of fame about half a dozen times too many in here. Can we move on? You don't have to look real far to see that she's pretty hung up on herself.

I'm a little shocked too thatarticle was linked on here. I kinda was giving the benefit of the doubt that Crossfit tried to stay "above reproach" so to speak on moral issues. They had to know that linking that would upset people, because I think they know there are alot of conservative Christians here.

On that note, I'm a little irked at how casually people will dismiss quotes from the bible and belittle and mock somone who quotes it. How about a little mutual respect? No one's scoffing at you if you DONT beleive the bible. I'm not quite as hot as John is about this and will probably continue using it as a workout program. I just know now that I will probabl steer clear from talking about anything aside from fitness with many of the diehards of the program. Anyone who thinks critically or logically would be able to easily find the research linking the use of porn to many many large issues plaguing the world. The only reason I can see that somone WOULD NOT realize this is that they were too addicted and hooked to porn to ever think of not rationalizing it as ok for them. For the record, I am with John about porn being horribly damaging.

As a final note. Allison has had her 15 minutes of fame about half a dozen times too many in here. Can we move on? You don't have to look real far to see that she's pretty hung up on herself.

This is freakin' hilarious. Good discussion, although my 8 year old niece and nephew wouldn't get worked up over this as much as some of you.

My .02 =

If porn is so horribly damaging, it's not because of the porn itself. It's because of a weak human mind.

That's like blaming the tobacco industry for a smoker dying. Cigarettes are bad, but smoking is a personal choice.

I WILL say this, however: Posting that link up there without an EXPLICIT **NOT W/FS** tag is wrong. We have to do it in the message board, so it should be done on the main page.

Side note: Allison seems like a nice girl, but whoever is behind the camera/does the editing needs a smack upside the head.

#109

Don't dare??? Oh, I dare alright! Very much so!!! Did you read the part about Jesus turning over the money changers tables in the very temple of His Father? He was very angry! Very angry that a place of worship had been turned into a den of thieves. Just as angry as I am that a concept as great as CF has now openly supported something I, and God, hates! There is no way any police agency will be supporting CF now! Trust me on this note. The military and government contracts will not be pleased either. Freedom of speech, given me a break! Defendporn.org is about defending the multi billion dollar porn industry and nothing else. They do not give a rats butt about your freedom. Al they care about is your money.

Telling me not to pick and chose? Is that not the very thing you have just done? How hypocritical of you! You do not know God, so please do not pretend that you do.

God hates porn because it destroys the very people He loves! If you can not see that, you are a blind fool.

Revelations 2:6:
But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I (Jesus) also hate.

Revelations 2:15:
Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I (Jesus) hate.

Eccl 3:8
A time to love, and a time to hate.

Test

test

Its sort of humorous, and a sign of the simpleton's hypocricy: A girl from the CFsandiego cert is photo'd with her boobs prominently displayed, and it hits the fan with all CF posters. "Why is she wearing that?" "Why is CF posting that?" "Why are you commenting on her boobs, you pigs?".....and then for some reason CF posts the link to a pro-porn fictional crime case set in the year 2011, trumpeting "pleasures of the flesh"...now all the CF posters are hiding behind the sham "its about free speech dude" defense and mocking anyone who complains about the link.

As for the Allison video, I drop the F-bomb as much as anyone else. However, if I know I'm making a video that hundreds, if not thousands of people are going to be viewing, I would like to think I would speak with a little more class.

I REALLY hope that this BUTTMAN thing reflects poorly on CrossFit. I mean that. The comfort level around here makes me wonder WTF! What drives the community?

CrossFit?...or the Community?

I came for CrossFit!

Nice to know the pressure of 40 billion CrossFit affiliates with eleventy billion CrossFitters, that does NOT change the spirit of CrossFit.

Many of you will not know what what I mean. That is OK. I like it that way.

Thanks Lauren.

Who doesn't like boobies? I like boobies.

God doesn't hate anybody or anything...
Jesus also "turned the other cheek".

Oh, I saw a movie where Jesus apparently got it on with a woman too and has a living blood line. The decendent is actually the "holy grail". Can you believe that?

Who knew...

If the link to the porn cite is not removed ASAP, and an apology made, I will be filing a complaint with the better business bureau.

I highly encourage others to do the same!

Wow! I have been following the CF website for some time now but have to admit that this was the first Rest Day discussion that I have followed all the way through. It looks like I started on a good one...

While I personally have my own beliefs and opinions on the topic of pornography, I also understand the intent of the post. Without the heightened awareness of our deteriorating rights and freedoms, we stand a huge chance of losing them completely. I admire organizations that are willing to take on emotional topics rather than just conforming to the status quo. I think that is what CF embodies.

To the affiliates and individuals that supposedly have influence over hundreds and thousands of others, taking your toys and going home because the neighbor said something you didn't like has never resolved anything. Show me one monument dedicated to a critic... Professionally, a simple disclaimer to your loyal followers that the content of this site is not under your direct control and that the opinions don't necessarily reflect that of you or your gym should smooth things over.

Thanks to all for the discussion!!!

John,
I don't feel that CF endorses porn, because it posted a provocative article. So would you then say that if CF posts an article about Islam, then they must support Jihad, and terrorists? I can't make that correlation, and I'd have to say the same about today's article.

The rest day articles seem to generate a lot of discussion, and get the blood boiling. If nothing else, you conducted a mental WOD today. It's your choice to follow along or not with crossfit, but I wouldn't make up my mind based on an article posted on the site. If your convictions are so deep that you'll leave CF, then best of luck to you. If not, take a deep breath and get ready for what tomorrow holds should you be so blessed to have another day.

S/F
Katz

John, I beg you, please, file against the Better Business Bureau. I could not think of a better cause for my affiliation fee to go to, than the Defense of CrossFit Fund. I will pay 6 months early just to boost the fund!!

Thin the herd!!!

to John #94,

She titled it that way because that's on the banner of the website. She's not telling us to "Protect our freedom," she's posting the main idea of the website that she's given a link to and having us have a discussion.

John
Every time I read one of your comments I am struck by the feeling that you are just a provocator playing games here. To summarize, you are threatening to steer your 7000 friends at work away from CF? Threatening legal action against the owners of CF (why again?)? Justifying hate with bible passages? Etc. You can't really be serious. It sounds like trolling to me.

#110 Chappy
Bible quotes have no place in reasoned argument to a secular audience about social issues. In particular, when it is taken a step further and such bible passages are used as justification to ban something, you shouldn’t be surprised to learn that non-religious (or at least less-religious) people get uncomfortable. This is often the case whether they agree with the ban or not.

Regarding the fact that this is linked on the CF site. It is a discussion link, not an endorsement of porn. On the internet, porn is but a mouse-click away at all times. If your child is old enough to read the word "porn" on the internet and to know what it means, perhaps she/he is also old enough to have a talk about the subject.

I couldn't agree more with Allison. It's amazing what the body looks like when your genome is fully expressed.

I just want to say I love porn, its great, oh and I am a soldier and I'm on my 4th deployment to defend all this craziness. John, you are a right wing nut job, but thats what makes this country so great, you can be one, just like a left wing crazy liberal can say what he wants. I will continue to support CF just like many others will do. I say keep God out of CF.

Where can I find Coach B's site?

#45, John, writes,

"I’m not making an argument for or against porn on this sight, let’s get that perfectly straight! . . . If CrossFit as an organization is supporting porn, then they are not only unworthy of my support, they are worse then the terrorist I have trained to kill, and the murderers I have placed in prison! . . . Porn has nothing to do with free speech, and it has no place on a public fitness sight, and if you think it does, you are a moron."

So, you are "not making an argument for or against porn," but you consider those who argue in defense of other people's right to access porn as being worse than terrorists or murders?

And you consider me a moron?

#65, Chesty pullup, writes,

"About the porn thing. If it is an issue of FREE speach then why is the porn industry a multi-billion dollar enterprise???"

By your logic, book and newspaper publishing are also not about free speech, since they too are billion-dollar industries.

#36 I got my 5fingers 2 weeks ago and fell in love with them immediately. 2 warnings for you: if you are used to lifting in shoes with a heel, take care with the first squats you try, and if you are not already a good POSE runner, your calves are going to murder you the first time you run in them. That said, I love them for the oly lifts. I feel much more stable and "grounded", if you will.

Allison, I enjoyed your webisodes. Seeing you bust your ass trying to get the muscle up was f'in inspiring. You rock.

Fundies, go worship with others of like mind and leave the rest of us alone.

21 posts of flawed logic and irrational arguments.

Crossfit is not/does not promote porn. Links are posted to promote discussion, not the content of the link. So you are personally offended by the video and of porn in general. Understandable, so say that. Tell us why you don’t like porn and contribute intelligently to the conversation.

CF did not post “it”. They just posted a link to an article containing “it”. What exactly are you going to have them charged with? As for punishment… maybe she was. Not sure what those Glassman’s are like behind closed doors!

Who’s the hypocrite, anyway? You were the first to tell CF to go to hell then blasted anyone else who disagreed with you. Quoting scripture in one post followed by “freedom to tell you to go to hell” is hardly the best way to PROVE you are more Godly then everyone else. Why don’t you look up the scripture concerning throwing stones or judging others. Don’t belittle people as hypocrites right after you act like one. It ruins any credibility you didn’t have when you started

Your ignorance has far surpassed your inability to think logically. You have stated that you want out. So go. You are in control of one thing… the choices you make. So make a decision and stand with it. Make a constructive, compelling argument or get lost. Don’t speak for others, especially police agencies and military/government contracts. And certainly do not judge me. That’s God’s responsibility and I will answer only to him.

#119, John, writes,

"If the link to the porn cite is not removed ASAP, and an apology made, I will be filing a complaint with the better business bureau."

Be sure you explain to the Better Business Bureau that your complaint involves a free service. And don't forget to complain about Google, which also provides links to porn sites for free.

(Unless, of course, you can get Google to apologize and take down all the links you don't like.)

JDM

Mr. Rippetoe's post said nothing about porn. WTF?!?!

John,
Have you ever posted a WOD time? Troll.

For the love of God, Lauren, please shut down this guy, John. He's gone too far. Enough already! Like #79, I too am so embarrassed that I've sent my friends to this fitness website/community blog to read his bull****!

I must also say that someone up in corporate is totally obsessed with the boob thing...do you realize how often this comes up? Not that there's anything wrong with it. It's a free website and this is a free country! If you don't like it, go somewhere else (read:John).

JDM
You are implying that's what he meant. Great example of flawed logic

agree with john 98
porn destroys families
free speech is standing up on a box with no fear
porn is a trap for the weak

Re: Workout variations - I noticed that too! Decided to follow CF.com wod's for a bit and it's getting a bit too predictable and lacking variety.

John
Re: Bible and Hate - don't hide behind someone else's thoughts. Think on your own.
And are you worthy to be the judge?

Can't read the article or download the vid on Army network. That said ....

I think it's funny how John thinks he knows what God hates ... or wants for that matter. Very similar to our Islamofacist enemies. They hate for God too. John, why don't you just sit down & let God take care of himself. He's all-powerful after all, so it shouldn't be a big probmlem to smite the wicked. All in a days work.

I don't presume to know what God wants but perhaps I'd guess that he wants us to use our natural sex drive & have sex. That's why it made it feel so good & why he made us so pre-occupied with it.

Read Hitchens. When he said Religion poisons everything he may have been on to something. No one speaks for God, not even you John. Don't let the door hit'cha where the good Lord split'cha.

As a parting note: "Don't make me feel like the weird on for liking porn. You're the weird one for not liking it." - Jonah Hill, Superbad

The comments regarding porn as "Evil" and seeking legal action against CF for posting the topic are absolutely Ludacris!

I am Christian and would feel that "urinating on a crucifix" as you say is abhorent behaviour. However, that is EXACTLY what freedom is all about. I don't have to like it one bit but you have the freedom to say it and I have thefreedom to walk away from it,

and IF our government truly is arresting people for masturbating to some internet Porn, we have a MUCH bigger problem then your sensitive little ego being hurt because you saw some boobies.

How does that famous quote go "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Wake up! This is America!!and there are people dying right now for your right to do and say as you please, so if you please to not participate in CF anymore so be it, but for God Sake leave without being a vindictive, self righteous, revenge seeking jerk.

Here's another quote for you "Girl don't go away mad, Girl just go away"

Oh and good for you Allison for putting yourself out there and up for all the comments and criticism, it take a lot of guts.

I am always surprised at how absolutely over sensitive and self entitled people are.

#3 MB,

Agree that it seems benchmarks pop up alot- when this happens do what others suggest, pop to another site for a workout- or better yet, come up with one of your own.

Agree with many that the video series has played out. Nice job Allison- no offense to you. If you are going for a female angle, how about Texas Annie and some of her workouts and training suggestions. Mix it up.

Thanks-
Tony

I'm proud to be a part of the Crossfit community. Liberty should be paramount in our country. After all, that's what America stands for isn't it? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't remember there being restrictions on those inalienable rights. What is more natural than the human body? And what is more necessary than sexual pleasure? Think of it this way, without it none of us would be here. Too many people feel that one's liberty should have restrictions. Then you no longer have liberty, you have repression. You don't have the right to tell me what I can't do, just as I don't have the right make you do anything. Nobody is forcing you to watch or financially support pornography, and nobody should restrict what adults do of their own volition whether you think it's immoral, sick, evil or whatever. That is the beauty of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. People like John are missing the point, and need to learn tolerance.
A fit human body is indeed a thing of beauty, and I can't understand how anyone could be offended by it.

Here is another idea per WOD-

This has been mentioned before but,

Give each CrossFit Rockstar trainer duty of posting one week of their personal training WOD's. None can be benchmarks- new stuff. Maybe this would be a pain in the ass, could even use a particular affiliates WOD for the week, and then rotate.

Tony

Don't post here much, but wanted to express that I regularly refer lots of different people to this site to get info, ideas and workouts...even kids/youths.

I do realize CrossFit may have a clientele they service, but they have done it well in the past without too many explicit videos or pics.

Recently, in general, there have been too many pictures of T&A for me to comfortably refer youths to this site for the time being. This has been increasing for a little while now.

Personally, I am not offended or against the free speech we speak of, just disappointed to see that CrossFit.com might have videos or pictures that are NOT work/family safe (or at least, I wouldn’t want to get this link ‘filtered’ by my employer, or my kids walk in will ‘daddy’s’ watching his videos)…on the main site. I am sure we can find lots of healthy ways to discuss free speech without jeopardizing the w/f safe environment of the main site.

My thoughts on the "lack of WOD variety". Could it be that through empirical observation that these workouts have proven more effective than others, thus their increased recurrence? I may be wrong on that, but that's my thought on the issue. Crossfit is about variety and efficacy. I don't think repeating a workout about once a month is a recurrent enough stimulus to really adapt to it.
For some reason I think I'd heard somewhere that Crossfit wanted to increase the strength focus, which would explain an increase of the low rep barbell exercises. Again, I could be wrong.

Flawed logic is a personal term of mine. If fact It’s a copyright. So you can’t use it anymore without expressed written permission of my wife, since she’s the real boss… or I’ll sick John on you, since he apparently knows all the laws of the land… oh, and the BBB also!

I just don’t see how you get "support for porn on CF" from his statement "the only thing in life more important that strength is Liberty." When the Patriot Act is being used to prosecute users of porn, which is legal, that is blatant abuse of power. At what point will it end?

And about “get pooped on”. Is that some strange fetish? Careful, the FBI might come after you

My points on today's article.

Do I like porn? No.
Do I like freedom? Yes.
Should porn be illegal? Well, that's what this article helps us think about isn't it? I'd love it if porn was illegal. I'm a Christian and I think that'd be great. The thing is that even if it was illegal people would still find a way to get it. That poses the question of whether or not that still makes it right to do. Also, I don't know if I think porn falls along the same lines as gun control because it's for pleasure and not for protection.
Also, just because we're in America doesn't mean we are a Christian nation. I wish we were but that's not the case. Does that fact that the freedom that allows me to worship as a Christian is that same freedom that allows gay marriage in California and porn seem a little odd? And if you take away one's freedom do you have to take away the other's just to be fair?
I spent four years in the Army and a year in that craphole in the Middle East and I'm honored to live in a free nation. I think it's good to make ourselves think about whether freedom means all things are permissible or whether there should be limits. Just something to ponder. That's why I hated the topic at first, and now my brain has been exercised.

Thanks Coach.

Just had a new baby girl Nina today, add one more to the crossfit nation.

Congrats on the new addition!

"Porn is evil"... I assume people's basis for this is that porn can cause damage, whether to young minds, marriages or careers. However, this does not make it immoral in and of itself. Morality can, essentially, be based around the principle that people should not be treated as a means to an end; porn does not do this. Instead, it presents an image (*resembling* a human being, but not an *actual* human being) to be used to provoke and/or satisfy sexual desire - ergo, it is not immoral. True, it is not an art, which exists simply for its own sake, but it is not evil; to argue so would be to argue that tv shows broadcast purely for our entertainment are evil as well.

I will not argue that it cannot lead to immorality, through addiction causing one to ignore family and friends etc., but to ban the many from a form of entertainment because of the actions of the few is overly authoritative and restricting; it is not the porn at fault, but the person.

Finally... "very destructive to the family"? I am a sixteen-year-old male. I have looked at porn. My parents also know. I told them. If anything, it has strengthened that relationship. Destruction can happen, but please do not generalise and discount so readily.

Even though this is a rest day, I too feel disappointed at the material posted. I am about to go meet a fellow teacher and her high school daughter for their first CF session at my gym. I do not at all think it would be good business to ask them to check out the CF website today. Yes, I could just point them to the CF kids site, but it has links back to the main CF site. The daughter wants to get in better shape for soccer, is overweight, and becoming very aware of boys. Do I want her to watch the Allison videos as an example of what she "could be"? No effin way. Many people have posted "if you don't like it, don't watch it". Knowing the background of the past videos, I HAVE chosen not to watch any more of them. For the same reason I choose not to go out to the meat market bars filled with ditzy sorority girls and guys (big college town here). I agree, if the message boards require a w/fs label, then the main page should as well.

I'll tell you what really gets my beef...when people misuse the word "loose" for "lose" (as in, I may loose my lunch if I try Michael today). Ooohhh, I hate that.

As Crossfit grows, the image of the mainpage becomes increasingly important to many more people than Coach and Lauren.

For example, at Albany Crossfit, we are developing a free program of training and nutrition for obese kids and teens. We are developing our corporate sponsor base for this, and in all my presentations to potential sponsores and to local middle and high school nurses, I have a link to Crossfit's mainpage to help explain who we are and what it is we do.

A day like today is a day I hope my sponsors, school nurses, and parents of prospective trainers miss.

For those who say it is a free site, yes, it is. But affiliates pay a fee, and all their trainers pay for certs, and to the degree that those sources of revenue are the Glassmans' business, they need to be responsive to their consumers.

This consumer gets a little nervous about the mainpage some days as a reflection of a business we're trying to grow. There are so many articles about nutrition, the science of exericise, wonderful books to review, why can't the rest day topic sometimes go there?

FWIW.

Susie

Is this really about porn or the Patriot Act endangering our First Amendment rights? Look a little deeper. The US vs John Stagliano is another attempt by our government to set a precedent that will tromp all over the freedoms we currently take for granted. Throw the constitution out under the guise of preserving national security. The pornography creating the knee jerk response isn't the issue.

Danger Will Robinson.

I will make this as quick as I can...Rest day was yesterday - I have a football game today, and, yes, I start on the o-line.

Since many of you live in California, I would suggest taking a trip to the Getty Museum sometime. They have a couple of exhibits that would disturb some people. There was one when I visited not too long ago that showed Jesus Christ coming out of the tomb while his mother and Mary Magdalene (?) waited for him in sorrow. When he came out of the tomb, he was covered in water and nude. The exhibit was in a private screening area because of the nudity and the fact that it was video.

That was art.

Porn is just some overamplified sex scenes from shows like Sex in the City. It can go in numerous ways (sometimes in more ways than you had thought).

Both the piece of art and the porn at times get your imagination going - not of the same things of course. It just provokes different thoughts.

The First Amendment supports the liberty that you enjoy.

Porn, whether I am really for it or against it makes no never mind. I am for the freedom of expression as long as it does not involve underage children in it.

ENjoy your freedoms as much as I do. Remember, the freedoms allow you to have choices. Just because you would not buy it does not mean that someone else would not.

Enjoy the rest day!

Stuart Richardson

I don't have time to read all the posts, but there was one in the filter that came out at #13.

I will add the thought that I really do think porn alienates people from their feelings. I like looking at attractive women as much as the next guy, but I was in an airport yesterday, and looked at the newsstand from a distance, and have to say there is a point you reach of oversaturation. How many naked women do you have to look at before you stop caring what's in their brains, and learn to be as manipulative as you need to be to get them in bed? Isn't this the essence of being a "playa"?

Where did the word "playa" come from? What does the state of the family look like in that neck of the woods? Not so hot.

I hang out in bars a lot, and am fairly talkative with strangers generally, and it is amazing what people will tell you if you will just listen. I will state flat out that our nation is in decline because we are raising screwed up kids, and we are raising screwed up kids because the parents can't keep it together, and abandon them, both physically and emotionally.

This has many causes, the principle one of which is the sectual revolution (trying to avoid filters). P0rn is an outcome of that, not a cause, and thus in my view is a symptom, not a root problem. For that reason, the task is not to ban it, but to attack the reasons people want to consume it.

To be clear, I always used to pay that $16 or whatever in hotel rooms when I was travelling. I did one 3 day membership once on a site, then cancelled. But that is the extent of it. I just got back from out of town, and although my room was hooked up, made the decision not to watch what they had. It always makes me feel dirty.

One big aha moment for me--and I've mentioned this before, but long ago--was when a female acquaintance of mine said she refused to watch p0rn because it made her feel like she was taking part in someone elses molestation. Who does porn? Who has sects for money? Does that not take a serious erosion of personal boundaries for women, probably typically numbed with drugs and alcohol?

If we think of p0rn as a drug, there is going to be a subset of people who accomodate to that drug, and need progressively harder "hits". They need novelty, and variety. This, in my view, is the root of "torture p0rn". It is qualitatively different, but what it represents is pure evil. It portrays the value not of standing and fighting for what you believe, but of acquiescing to evil.

Google the plot of Hostel 2, which was according to the director intended for "teenagers and the 18-25 crowd". He literally intended kids under 18 to enjoy watching extended torture scenes, culminating with a girl beheading her own friend, and playing soccer with the head. I'm not making this up.

These are clear symptoms of emotional alienation. Paradoxically (not really within my own explantory scope, but on the outside, to people who haven't thought this through), efforts to win freedom to pursue peace, love, and freedom have led--through the de facto reduction of intimacy to physical contact--to the polar opposite: the valuing of cruelty, disloyalty, cowardice, and hate.

A nation that no longer knows how to create deep emotional contacts with others is a nation highly vulnerable to propaganda. Our conformity becomes our connection, and this is the principle characteristic of most of the Left. It is a resonant surface, that transmits faithfully every idea and thought disruption that is put into the pipeline. Information is preserved because no one actually contemplates any of the things they "believe". They just repeat them, and we see this constantly on Rest Days. Just look at the puerile insults and evasions of Ameriswede at the end of the Rest Day two cycles ago.

I post here because I think Coach has created a method for attracting people capable of sincerity. This is a prerequisite for any nation not to descend into barbarity.

Wow, that first dancer in the AVN video must be a crossfitter. Look at her body.

I'm just slightly amused that some people are bending over backwards tyring to explain that the Glassmans don't defend porn, that it's just for discussion, that it doesn't represent their views. When was the last time they posted a link that didn't give a clear sense of where they stand on a given subject? Today's link is perfectly in line with their libertarian ideals, I don't see where the confusion lies.

So for those who believe Coach=Crossfit and you can't possibly train under a system if you disagree with the founder's politics, be aware: Crossfit supports US military action in the Middle East, minimal government intervention... and porn. Can't bear the thought? Buh-bye.

Allison is right about how everyone looks. Each and everyone of us won't have the same body but we will have a strong body. Thanks CrossFit!

Love the Allison NYC video. It’s good to see the enthusiasm. Also her language adds a certain amount of class. Training and focus is something that we should all strive for. When doing exercise protocols we should always remember form.

"The Moral Animal", by Richard Wright. Read it, and you will realize that what eg Barry Cooper says, coming from empirical observations coupled to intellectual sense, is simply TRUE. Read it. We are moral animals capable of "good" and "evil", it is all about what input we give our at birth existing, behaviour governing, mental organs, such as the "sexual mental organ". And porn will not further happiness on earth when in that equation.

/Kristofer, Crossfit Sweden

#137, newspapers and the like are the very essence of free speach and press and have been since oh 1776. Porn is an industry seeking to leach itself onto this freedom that our Veterans have fought and died for. It has also been determined as having **limited** protection by the Supreme Court because of this fact.

My buddy and I got a question, how do we scale the work outs up... he stated that the crossfit work weight load is designed for males at 175 lbs and females at 120 lbs... is this true? If so, we need to bump it up and stop "cheating" ha ha

MB and others - I too have noticed that the WOD's seem to be becoming more "generic" over time. I think that as CF becomes more popular and widespread the WOD's are evolving to fit a more commercial gym environment and losing some of their uniqueness and far-out-ness. When I first found CF 2 years ago the WOD's did seem to be more varied. The image of the intrepid athlete cleaning and jerking a tree stump in the park or flipping a tire in an empty lot seems to be falling by the wayside. The move toward chain gyms (and gasp! could spandex be on its way) is commercially great for CF. This evolution of CF also helps explain the growing acceptance of AllisonNYC. (Anyone remember the uproar at her first appearance?)

Of course, this is only my opinion, the same as the other writers posting on this same topic. The only way we'll know for sure if the CF WOD is evolving in this direction is if the people who actually design and post the WOD's (is this still Coach?) decide to speak up and talk about the direction in which they are taking CF.

I love rest days. Nothing saves me more money. Almost every rest day I find myself thinking, I'll never spend a dime on a cert or spend a dollar on the local affiliate. It's money in my pocket.

bg: Congrats!
Barry Cooper: always a solid post. Some good stuff in here.
I wanted to add that you can turn on a TV at 8pm and see some pretty disturbing violence. At that same time slot, you're looking at mega fines for just airing a nipple. Now, neither is really 'right', but for argument's sake, how many people are you going to assault or kill in your lifetime (society expects 0 unless you're in the military and killing is your business), and how many times are you going to get it on (thousands of times)...yet the naked form is that much more taboo vs violence/death...that isn't including the internet which is a haven of p0rn.
I hear ya Barry on the "who does that" line...really...like those people don't enjoy that! They're in the acting biz. Their brains are numb to it...years of abuse (of some description). Not that many well adjusted pornstars (not that I would know, as I have yet to knowingly meet someone of that profession).

To be clear I have not read the link nor will I, so I can't be sure of the content. I do not read it because I am quite sure the site contains pornography, which I do not want to view.

The First Amendment was meant to protect speech, but it doesn't even protect all speech (e.g. libel and slander), pornography aims to spark arousal and has nothing to do with speech.

John is entitled to his outrage, please debate his arguments and avoid the ad hominem attacks (e.g. right wing nut job). I agree that if the link contains pornographic media it is not proper to published on the CF, which is visited by minors. A purely text version of the article, sure.

Christians quote the Bible because it is the word of God and in doing so are letting God speak to those who are open. The irony here is that some have stated that they support the right to view pornography because of the First Amendment yet ask that the Bible be left out of public discourse.

#69 I can't speculate on John's experience but the following link is an interview with Ted Bundy who states that pornography was integral in becoming a serial murder. http://www.spcs.org.nz/2007/dr-james-dobson-interviews-serial-rapist-murderer-ted-bundy-hours-before-he-is-executed-by-electrocution/

Pornography is detrimental to society: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2004/11/65772
http://forerunner.com/forerunner/X0388_Effects_of_Pornograp.html

Sometimes I think Glassman is John, and he just posts this stuff to watch everyone get riled up...after all, it IS a rest day!
MB-about the workouts...I would be the LAST to complain about what workout shows up in the WOD, as they still serve the purpose intended...but I have been doing crossfitMAUI WODs, because I do enjoy the variation and creativeness they use. Now that I typed that, they will probably do a series on named WODS! HAHAHA

One of the things I value most about the CF community is that for every person who gets upset about whatever the topic of debate may be, there are a dozen more who keep their heads and make coherent, logical points of discussion. Great stuff. I'm proud to be associated with people who can use their brains AND their bodies.

#13 Barry Cooper
Even as a young person, I agree with you. Call me a sap, but life and love requires delicate, thoughtful, and passionate management. Porn seems to obscure reality, especially when taken to the extreme.

Does this necessitate a ban on porn? I imagine it would be far less effective that the war on drugs, as porn can even be free. So that leaves us rattling swords at the youth instead of providing them with a solid education about reality.

To distill my point: porn wastes time. It might be a vice, but you can't ban it any more than you can ban books.

Doesn't get any better than this.
Saturday morning, sun shining through the window,
hot cup of coffee, the most hilarious posts I've seen in a long time. People reach critical mass so fast on these rest days. Keep it up.

# 38 Hari

If the movie was of an actual bank robbery taking place, the movie itself is not illegal, but it can certainly be used against the bank robbers as evidence - perhaps self-incriminating evidence. But I am not sure we can make the logical jump from a bank robbery to the porn case that is being presented.

I have to say I love this. This is the first time in a long time that I have seen this much discussion on a rest day. John you are the main cause to this and personally I love discussion. CrossFit much like myself likes to add things in that causes people to be riled both in workouts and discussion. I can understand that if you are showing someone this site right off the bat they may get the wrong idea but they only have to search the site and "gasp" actuallly get to know the people and have a good idea of who they are.

I have met and talked with both Coach and Lauren and find them to be great people. The community has been supportive and at times even more supportive then anything that I had in the military.

I served in our military for over a decade and only left because I have moved more times in 10 years then most in 10 lifetimes...here is a quote for you.

"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Don't censure John if you have. John if you really want to chat...talk on...

As for Porn...I am a huge supporter of personal responsibility. Don't like it, don't watch it.

Drugs, Guns, and some very stupid televison show worse and wait for it...I choose not to watch them or let my children watch them.

If you have read the article and watched the video than feel free to comment if not what are you commenting on if you have no idea what the hubbub is about.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts...

John,

I realize that when emotions are involved, objectivity is somewhat sacrificed. I believe that you are feeling personally attacked, but realize that this kind of open forum discussion was the purpose of the link today. By posting the link, CF in no way was supporting pornography or its distribution. Who knows? The link poster may share your hatred for pornography. I personally "hate" fast food because it disgusts me, but I believe it should be allowed to exist in our free market society.

From your post earlier: "It is interesting how some of [you] claim to support freedom of speech, until of course someone says something you disagree with."

I don't think anyone on this site has denied/opposed your freedom of speech. In fact I think quite the opposite. The quote "I may disagree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it" comes to mind. Neither CF nor anyone posting here seems to be supporting pornography, or even justifying it, but only defending its right to exist as a basic freedom. When we Americans begin to accept the revocation of such freedoms, we fall onto the slippery slope of revoking more freedoms. What's next, freedom of religion? Freedom of the press? Talibanish indeed.

It is my opinion that Lauren or Coach (or both) picked this subject for a Rest Day discussion because they wanted to up the ante -- knowing that this topic in particular provokes more emotion-based arguments and failures of reasoning than many other political topics.

They appear to have succeeded.

Let me touch on a few points:

1] If a teenager visiting CrossFit clicks on the link and watches the video, and his parents don't want him to, it means that his parents aren't doing their job. Pornography on the Internet is literally two clicks away from any teenager, and 99.9% of teenage males have known how to find it since they were about 10. The only way to counter this reality is for parents to set up Internet safeguards in their home, to monitor 'net usage, or to persuade their children not to view porn either by threat of punishment or by teaching them why they shouldn't look at the stuff. If you believe that somehow an innocent boy is going to watch that video and suddenly be exposed to a world of Internet porn that he never knew existed, then you are deluding yourself. Sorry.

2] The title of the post is clearly a way to spur discussion and I didn't immediately assume that Lauren or Coach (or CrossFit) support a worldview that the title might represent. It could be parody, it could be real, but in any case it's more than likely just food for thought. If you don't think that defending pornography is defending freedom, then perhaps rather than launching ad hominem attacks on the site's proprietors you could make an argument supporting your point of view. (Radical thought, I know.)

3] Free speech isn't material to this discussion as it relates to people here expressing their opinion. Free speech means that I'm free to say whatever I want without the government coming and punishing me for it. It doesn't mean that the owners of this website are forced to allow me to say whatever I want on their forum -- even though they are kind and gracious enough to do so. So let's stop invoking freedom of speech to defend bad argumentation and instead start improving our own reasoning.

4] As noted, many Supreme Court cases have found that there are legitimate artistic and other uses for pornography that cause it to be classified as protected speech under the First Amendment. It's incredibly unlikely that all of these cases are going to be overturned in the near future, and the opponents of pornography might as well accept that. I didn't look at the details of the linked website's legal cases but I'm curious as to how the feds intend to prosecute someone for pornography this time when it's failed so many times in the past.

5] It should be well-known that pornography can have addictive effects for many people. Cases are documented all over the place and this shouldn't be in dispute. The stuff has the potential to hurt interpersonal relationships and psychologically harm a subset of its viewers. The evidence for this is legion. However, there are also a great many persons who view pornography with no ill effects whatsoever, or who might experience some small side effect that puts porn on the level with occasionally drinking one too many cans of sugary soda pop. It's not a hard and fast deal, but all sides need to recognize that they don't have a monopoly on the evidence.

Just some thoughts that might offer clarification on this issue and serve to reprimand those who have propounded all manner of falsehoods in their arguments. I haven't even touched on the real debate about whether we *should* take steps to protect porn and pornographers from prosecution, but I figured this post was long enough already. :)

I am such a huge fan of Crossfit and what I thought it represented. Wellness. Porn and the addiction to it is quite contrary to the ideals of Crossfit. I am saddened to see that this disgusting link to "defending freedom" is on the Crossfit website. I am serving our great country in Afghanistan, and did so in Iraq. I defend our freedom because I love having the freedom to make my own decisions in life about things like work, play, religion, and the right to do most things one can't do in countries like Iraq and AFghanistan. However, if pornography, like homosexuality is your thing, that is fine too. Just don't flaunt the crap in our faces! You want to morally corrupt and be judged in the end for it, that is on you. Just don't flaunt your immoral acts in our faces.

I need to stop drunk posting! I added my above thoughts after watching Allyson's video then reading some posts and not noticing the "Defend our Porn! Protect our Freedom" link. What was I thinking?

At least I had enough sense to leave my vehicle at the location I chose to drink last night. LOL

In Matthew 5:27-28, Jesus equates lust with adultery of the heart. According to this principle, pornography is evil (unless perhaps it's of your wife) because its purpose is to incite lust. Obviously, this is unpersuasive to those who do not believe the Bible.

John, it appears that your arguments are unpersuasive for your intended audience: whoever runs crossfit.com or may influence crossfit.com. It appears that Coach Glassman and the most vocal contributors of comments are a secular audience, and Biblical argument is futile with them. From Coach Glassman's business philosophy ("do what you love and the money will come"), financial pressure would also seem to be futile. I cannot think of a possible legal cause of action you might have against CrossFit- let me know if you find a lawyer who believes otherwise. Probably the only avenue of argument that might persuade Coach is empirical evidence that porn hurts athletic performance (let me know if you find any), since he's characterized himself as a "performance whore." Even such evidence may not prevent defense of the legality of porn, just as the legality of tobacco and refined sugar might be defended.

You are free to try imposing your opinion on others- that is the goal of persuasion. However, considering your chances of success at persuasion, perhaps you can simply disclaim your endorsement of CrossFit. I warn people about the 1) music, 2) swearing, and 3) acceptance of the hypothesis of evolution.

For those who want to discuss free speech, I recommend learning some law- wiki or google "Freedom of Speech in the United States." You'll learn that there are limits to free speech, and these limits may not be as concrete as you thought. For example, the 1st Amendment applies to only government action. Absent contractual obligations, privately owned forums are legally free to censor if they so choose. (FYI, if your post got held up, see the CrossFit FAQ question 1.18 on why you may have tripped the spam filter.) There are also exceptions to free speech protection: e.g. obscenity, advocacy of imminent lawless action (e.g. solicitation to commit murder), defamation (i.e. libel and slander), and fraudulent misrepresentation.

The Supreme Court's Miller test for obscenity has three elements: 1) whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest, 2) whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions specifically defined by applicable state law, 3) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. Pornography that doesn't meet all three elements is merely indecent, not obscene.

The first two prongs of this test are subjective, based on community standards. Different communities could have different standards. If a community changes, the standard changes as well. Ultimately, the most effective method of social change is to change the people's hearts and minds before changing the law. This promotes compliance and respect for the law. Prohibition was repealed because society wasn't ready for it, though I don't think Prohibition in itself was necessarily bad. Based on our society's current condition, I would not make indecent pornography illegal.

On the other hand, one of the functions of law is to teach, and it influences society's perception of morality. For this reason, pornography is not an aspect of free speech that I would defend unless I knew another aspect was also threatened.

Barry, #162: "I hang out in bars a lot, and am fairly talkative with strangers generally, and it is amazing what people will tell you if you will just listen. I will state flat out that our nation is in decline because we are raising screwed up kids, and we are raising screwed up kids because the parents can't keep it together, and abandon them, both physically and emotionally."

Sad, but true. I teach full-time and see evidence of this on a daily basis. The parents at our school give their kids everything, except their time and attention. A recipe for raising emotionally and morally stunted kids if there ever was one.

#174, dbones :"Christians quote the Bible because it is the word of God and in doing so are letting God speak to those who are open. The irony here is that some have stated that they support the right to view pornography because of the First Amendment yet ask that the Bible be left out of public discourse."

While I don't believe that the bible is the word of god, I will defend your right to read it, follow its teachings, and meet with others to discuss it. I just ask that you and every other religious person keep the bible, koran, four noble truths and every other religious document out of our public institutions.

CrossFit supports Porn? Nice straw man, John #16. I suggest you take a course in logical argument.

I finished watching AllisonNYC and would only make one comment to Lauren or Coach...I would post whether it is Work, family, safe. I agree about some of things she says...I also cuss at times but try to keep it minimal around my daughter...God knows she gets enough everywhere else. So I think for most it would be good to know when it is posted publically. To another beautiful day in the mountains...

I've been out of the Main page loop because I'm tweaking my training for the East Caost challenge, but have to just throw in my two cents. I live by the adage, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." I believe wholeheartedly in the importance of individual freedom, but with freedom comes responsibility. That aspect frequently gets overlooked, and succeedes in undermining the real value of freedom, which is pursuing uncharted and unrestricted avenues for the greater good. Or so I think. Keep the dialogue going. I'm off to squat.

Liberty and the right to free speech do NOT mean you get to do and say whatever you want. They have reasonable limits. Degrading women, as most pornos do, is the same as degrading a person for being a certain race or religion. It is a moral issue for each person to consider. And all laws do "legislate our own morality" - that is why they are there.

That being said, I do watch porn. It may not be morally right, but it is certainly enjoyable!

#175 Rolf may be on to something.....

I ain’t as smart as the rest of you people but thanks to my Citadel education I can run fast, shine my shoes well, and I know how to dress the part. Two skills that have carried me further than expected.

Here is my two cents for the day:

1. Rest day discussions and rants have been low so coach adds this to make us sharpen our skills at fighting the truly demonic forces such as porn and hyper-insulinism.

2. Coach adds videos of Allison to help me realize how stupid I sound when I swear like a sailor.

3. South Carolina is the coolest state rich with history. Some good and some bad but rich none the less. Cadets Haynesworth and Pickens fired the first shots of the civil war when they turned back the Star of the West, Come on!!. A few of the fellows at the Alamo were from SC and do not forget about the Swamp Fox. I hope someone opens up an affiliate in Greenville, SC soon so I can pukie when I go home to visit.

4. I love my Catahoula Leopard Dog (state dog of Louisiana).

This past week was Law Enforcement Memorial week. God bless all my fallen comrades and those who serve our country here and overseas and I pray for the surviving families.

What say you?

Crossfitters (and John),

No one, through governmental processes or private means, should attempt to silence another's opinions. You mentioned taking legal action against CF for posting this article, but this article is about protecting speech from people just like you. No single individual is infallible, and a person tends to believe others ought to speak in accordance with ideas that he or she sympathizes with, and that others should act in a manner with which her or she is agreeable. But some people have the unfounded belief that their opinions are absolute as a result of silencing contradicting opinions. Only through discussion and dissent that challenges one's beliefs can a person correct his mistakes and develoop a viewpoint that is justified. Beware of the dangers that can arise when someone refuses to hear discussion that contradicts their prejudices. If you support the stifling of dissenting opinions, then you must also accept that you should be held accountable as well if your opinions are deemed radical, dangerous, or extreme. Indeed, many people defend their beliefs so vehemently not because of their conficence in being correct, rather it is because they are unsure what to do should their beliefs prove untrue.
Articles like this are important if only for arguements sake. The unchallenged truth upon which and opinion is founded may be lost over time. Should a dissenter challenge the popular opinion of a community (religious, fitness, etc.) then one must subsequently examin his or her beliefs and the arguments that support them, thereby enhancing the individuals own understanding of his oer her opinion.
Also let us not forget that when two opinions are in opposition of each other, rarely is one side absolutely true and the other absolutely wrong. Progress can only arise when a comprimise of the two opinions can be reaches that is better suited to the times. Two opposing opinions serve to keep both sides in check. This way, either side will have a more difficult time forging the path to extremism.
My point here being that whether you support the message of the article or not is inconsequential, just so long as you support the idea behind the article. An exercise in controversy is always healthy for both sides. Read the article, dont read the article, but at least the article is out there, opposing some religious extremist article about sins of the flesh. Beneficial to the religious extremists, because they are forced to exercise their opinions, and beneficial to the one who wrote/posted this article, because their opinions are being voiced as well.

P.S. Gotta love that red SC mud!!

First time for the f-bomb in the daily videos? Not by a long shot.

Was it the messenger some folks had a problem with?

I remember a couple of cert videos that included the same vocabulary, and the feedback on those was much more good natured.

#22- Congrats Judd. I was in your place on tuesday doing the muscle up workout in SV. Sorry I could not make it for the class on thursday. You and your wife have a great set-up and way to go on the MU.

Mike

I love it that I live in a country where we enjoy the freedoms and liberties to do things we like and avoid the things we don't. Porn is not my cup of tea, but some people like it. It's a personal choice, and who are we to judge someone else for the personal choices someone else makes? I'm GRATEFUL for brave men and women like CCTJoey, Appolloswabbie, Tosh, and the rest of you who work TIRELESSLY day in and out to defend those liberties and freedoms and keep us safe at night. I'm glad each of you are on our side, and there are some posts that have forgotten the bigger picture, that were it not for these men and women, and those that came before them, our country would be vastly different. We have freedoms and liberties in this country not seen anywhere else in the world; we have grown accustomed to them, and I believe take quiet a few for granted. Take a look at the Middle East, Somalia, etc., and see what oppression looks like and what our country could look like, and then look around and see how wonderful this country is and be thankful you were born here and not somewhere else.

There are a lot of things in this country that aren't perfect and bad for us, but are billion dollar industries and not going anywhere: gambling, porn, tobacco, etc. If you like it, enjoy it. If you don't, then don't. It's not that difficult.

For those of you waking up in the sandbox today or working hard training to get there, I THANK YOU for your continued efforts day in and out, and this country would not be the same without your sacrifices. THANK YOU for protecting our freedoms and liberties - it's not an easy job and we need to slow down and say thanks more often.

#194: Like your comments Falloutshelter. God bless the families of all the fallen.

I just have to say that the "Defend Our Porn" group are full of BS. Show me proof that the government is using the Patriot Act to go after porno. That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard--sounds like talking points from MoveOn.org.

The Patriot Act has been a key factor in ensuring our freedom and protecting this nation from another terrorist attack.

ps. Going to NYC tonight for an engagement party. AllsionNYC, I'll save you a seat at Ruby Foo's.

CrossFit has done a huge service in featuring women who break the mold. Women are strong, determined, and fierce. Our women in our program without a doubt impress me more than the guys. This is a true chance to change the sterotypes. I agree that there is no reason CrossFit shouldn't be featuring many different women of all different skill levels. Alison needs a rest and enough bs about boobs, sexuality, perceptions, etc. etc. Don't we get enough of that outside of a great fitness program? Come on. Showcase some real people.

36/6'2"/195
Colorado Springs

#139, Rippetoe made no such comment.

Coach, send someone out to Colorado to interview me for the Crossfit Die Hard II - Part 1 episode. Considering I've put in 200% every day for the last 2 years without any gym affiliation speaks for itself. My gains have been staggering and I have the numbers/dates to prove it!

I'm know there are many other folks that are just as dedicated as I, however for the sake of todays hot discussion and freedom of speech, it should be me.

Looking forward to seeing what is in store for us tomorrow, everyone have a great day and don't let John drag you down with him as he decends back to troll land.

Ciao

I love CrossFit. I however agree that this was a poor choice for discussion and has better media outlets. I just referred a couple of friends and like was mentioned before in another post, I am not sure they'll understand the Rest Day discussions. It kinda makes me look like I support pornography, which I don't. I agree with John on the majority of his postings because I am a Christian and I share his views. Of all the sins discussed in the Bible, sexual sins are the most prevalent. People that don't believe pornography is destructive and addictive haven't done much research.

Free speech? Not everything can be protected by the 1st Amendment. It seems uneducated people always throw that out there, even though they don't truly understand what freedoms the 1st Amendment actually gives. Christian, #183 gave some good examples and great discussion on what the 1st Amendment provides.

As for fighting for Freedom. I served my country and this is not the freedom I fought for. Do your research, like it or not, our country was founded on Christian and Biblical principles, so those of you that feel that the Bible has no place in this discussion of our political freedoms need to account for the fact that the Bible was a major influence in the very fabric of our country. Unfortunately we have strayed from those principles and perverted what the founding fathers of our country truly intended when they wrote the 1st Amendment.

I am disappointed with CrossFit and now have to go call my friends and apologize and explain what this is all about.

#172 MikeC1,

I guess I haven't been doing CrossFit long enough to have seen the more austere workouts. You're probably right about evolving to be more affiliate-oriented. There is nothing wrong with that. But workouts don't have to be austere to be novel. Every time a named workout comes up, the makers could have derived a new workout using those same exercises in a different amount/weight/time scheme. This would limit the workouts to exercises that are easy for affiliates to do, but still keep the novelty. I admit that it would be easy for individuals to do that on their own if they are unhappy with a workout's originality (and I may end up doing so), but as I mentioned in #51, you lose some of the community benefits when you do that.

I definitely hope to hear thoughts on this from Coach or whoever designs the WODs. I'm searching for information and understanding so that I can be more informed in the decisions I make affecting my fitness.

AllisonNYC

HEY...did you ever figure out who the girl w/ the guns was on that video/CrossFit page?? I must have missed that day. Curious about her background too. Please let me know if you read this.

I love my freedoms. Even porn, although it is a poor substitute for the real thing. Seriously. Ask any of us who went on a long deployment what happened when we got back from it!

I love my Crossfit, and I think the workouts are still great. Thanks, Coach! What a great country I live in where I get the right to do what I want when I want and that's Crossfit.

Allyson-you effing rock! I point out videos with you and the other ladies to lots of women to show them they can do it too. As far as trailer trash talk-I am trailer trash dammit, and we talk a lot worse than that!

Great site with many good people.

John-thanks for the entertainment.

Because of the alternative lifestyle I choose to live I am very open to how others live. To porn or not to porn. To Crossfit or not to Crossfit? It is all the choice that each individual makes on their own. Opinions are given just as freely due to freedom. All I know was I did four years with the 82nd and I was prepared to defend that freedom with the ultimate sacrifice if need be. Liberty and the ability to voice opinions go hand in hand, no matter if it is porn or not.

#159 I agree!!
#160 I agree!!
#172 How true. Crossfit started as the non denomination, motivated, hard core, against the norm regimen. Against Golds, Bailey’s, and 24hr fatness. But it is now the non-denomination’s denomination. The anti-globo gym’s gym.

The workouts have gotten watered down and words like “Client” or “how to keep your client motivated so he/she will keep paying you” are the norm. It has become Laodocian in an attempt to spread. Im not saying it was elitist just different in ways not easy to articulate. Case in point: you would have never seen the videos of Allison in the early days. Not to attack her personally but the videos of old were of exercise protocols and motivated you on how to work hard. Videos of Annie, Nicole, Eva, and Greg, etc…They were not choreographed MTV Road Rules.

The rest days have always been feisty and edgy to get us thinking. Yes porn is one click away but if Im trying to get converts to my cult and then find a link to a vile video without a disclaimer and end up looking like a fool when they call and get asked, “Dude, are you kidding me?” then something’s wrong.

Gym Jones has stayed truer to the Crossfit ideology than Crossfit.

You need to return to your first love!! Intensity, Sweat, Focus, hard core!

If porn is what it takes to attract attention to the misuses of the Patriot Act, so be it. I would contend though, that there have been much worse misuses of this unpatriotic legislation. Just Google "misuses of the Patriot Act" if you haven't been informed of this yet. Governments will try wield as much power over their people as they possibly can, that is why our founding fathers set our government up in such a way that the people have the right to stand up for their inalienable rights, and if need be take them back!
It is unfortunate that the so-called spread of freedom in the Middle East and fear mongering toward radical Islamists is being used as a platform to decrease our very own freedoms for the sake of security, not to mention costing us well more than we can afford.

#73

I'm not sure if you were referring to my post (#67) or not, but I am familiar with the CrossFit kids link. The problem I have with your point is that the kid's link will lead parents back to the main site. And even if it doesn't, pornography is a very aggressive entity. If the Glassman's are consumers and / or promoters of pornography, and I'm not saying that they are, this will eventually permeate all aspects of their lives including CrossFit kids. This is not only bad morally in my opinion, it is bad for business. I'm surprised at the unnecessary provocation. I don't know anyone who is offened by a lack of pornography in their lives, but I do know many people who are offended by the presence of pornography, especially when kids might be exposed. If this becomes a theme of CrossFit it is not something I want my family, friends, or customers to be identified with. I hope this does not happen and that this is only a missguided attempt to spur a discussion on free speach. Which, by the way, has never been free. Thank you to all who have sacrificed life and limb so that we can have this discussion.

John:

Porn is not evil, and cannot seriously be called "Evil" any more than the Bible, the Koran, Crossfit videos featuring AllisonNYC, Starting Strength, or your favorite book, movie, magazine, or TV show.

Porn just is, and will continue to be. It is part art, part fantasy, part fun, part functional sexual fitness, part documentation of what is possible for those with less imagination. It serves a purpose and like many other things can be abused and can be a waste of time. So can religion.

Porn saves marriages and helps to treat erectile and se#ual dysfunction. It helps stimulate renewed interest in se# and intimacy. It provides an outlet for natural sexual urges that cannot or should not be acted on in real life for whatever reason. Yes, it may have the opposite effects as well. Perhaps in these cases the problems are more with the viewers than the material they are viewing.

If you get it on with your wife, is that evil? Does it somehow become evil when you tape it? or is it only when you show it to someone else? What exactly makes a video recording or still images of two (or more) people "EVIL"? And how can something that nearly ALL humans enjoy looking at be called EVIL? Or is it that NEARLY ALL HUMANS are EVIL because we enjoy seeing other humans naked and engaging in EVIL acts such as making love to other humans or just cavorting around in the birthday suits god gave us?

Your kids (and all teenagers) are already looking at it, they just haven't told you because they know you don't get it, and it would destroy your fragile worldview. You would be surprised how resourceful kids are at finding porn. EVERY kid has looked at it, except maybe for a few who are too scared of their domineering parents or too brainwashed by the same parents and religious organizations to think for themselves.

What about the marriages and families that are saved and enriched by a renewed interest in s#x and intimacy that porn may stimulate? what about our soldiers who use porn as an outlet when deployed to places like Iraq to protect your freedoms and our country and our access to oil?

Regarding the porn industry, it is just another industry that produces and sells a product that people enjoy and are willing to pay good money for . Yes, there are people who are hurt, abused, and taken advantage of in the production of porn. This is the reality of many industries.

Take the oil industry for example. Is Oil also EVIL? Do you know how many people have died to keep the oil (and profits) flowing? What about clothing? Is all clothing EVIL, or only that produced in sweatshops where women are locked up and abused and forced to work long hours in dangerous conditions for a lot less than your average porn actress? And if clothing and nakedness are both EVIL, what do we do then?

I guess i'll just read the bible and go to church, maybe they'll tell me what to do. Thinking for myself is so hard, it must be EVIL.

Had a little fun yesterday and did "Fran"...We were inspired by "Firefighter Fran", so we did "Hockey equipment Fran". Check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab1N1iXpeRg

Brent where you at in Colorado Springs, we are opening our box in a week here...let me know if your interested

Yeah, Crossfit. That being said, here's a brief rundown on what annoys me about today's discussion:

John, you went over the top and lost all credibility.

The video is an entertainment piece, set in the future, year 2011. So, my little simpletons, rest assured all your CF colleagues in Law Enforcement are NOT invoking the Patriot Act and making arrests based on watching internet porn. Pay attention and don't blindly follow your false pied piper.

Allison cussing like a sailor does not add class, and is not refreshing like some dopes posted. It distracts from any points she's trying to make. If I dropped the F-bomb all over my post, would I get more credibility with some of you?

This is what I expect to see next time a hottie is posted in the WOD: crude and lewd remarks about her anatomy, followed by details of what "pleasures of the flesh" the poster would like to perform with her. These posts, I KNOW (!!), will be followed by other posts encouraging and celebrating the first posts' exercising their freedom of speech. Right? 'Cause its all about provoking dialogue and freedom of speech, dude, isn't it?

I watched Allison's video for the first time and I don't understand why anyone would watch it a second time. She rambles on about nothing. She has no class as is evident in how she has to revert to mindless cursing to try and make a point of some kind.

Nuff said!

That was, bar none, the most worthless Crossfit video I have ever seen. I am dumber for having sat through it. What happened to Spartan fitness? I am sorry I wasted 6min and 30sec. A full year of Crossfiting and I haven't been moved to comment until now.

I was recently asked what an "mod" is in reference to CrossFit. I have never seen this before. Have I missed something? If anyone knows what this is please enlighten me so that I may in turn enlighten others.

Thank you.

ran 2 miles with my wife the "runner" in the family, slow pace, trying to get the soreness after my first week back in 4 months. I hoping it will help for whatever tomorrow brings.

I got bored with the video.

#210 THANKS FOR THE COOL VIDEO. Its going to make our site today at DCF.

#215 A "mod" is a modification to a workout (i.e. a substitution).

#217 "mod"

So obvious, Thanks

Crossfit Kids and Defend our Porn?

Unreal.

Simply because something is legal, and should not be regulated by government, does not mean it is good. I don't want the government making laws against sitting on the couch all day, Ramen noodles, unpatriotic speech, or porn. But it doesn't mean that any of those are actually good things. In fact, they're all horrible. Those things make you worthless, fat, dangerous, and perverted. Porn encourages men to view women as objects for sex, and makes them set up unrealistic expectations for their real-life sexual partners.

You know it's true.

The military sells porn but what happens if a female officer poses for Hustler? Wait, I thought there was nothing wrong with it...

Most critically, why would Crossfit even make this an issue? I mean, "Defend our Porn" and "Crossfit Kids" on the same webpage? You've got to be kidding.

I would never want to prosecute Crossfit for any opinion they post. But I will no longer refer friends to Crossfit, wear my Crossfit T-shirt, or help Crossfit succeed.

I'll use Crossfit like guys use free porn - I'll take what you offer but you'll never get anything out of it. I'll tell them about Rosstraining from here on out.

Did you even read the article J Kru...get past the title and read the article...don't watch the video if you don't want to see a woman topless. Other than that the article is set in the future where something could possibly happen like this...As for porn it won't be stopped not with the internet in affect but the article I think was trying to make the point about defending free speech not defending porn. I do agree though that certain things should be labled WFS before people view it. Years ago when Crossfit started it wouldn't have really mattered but now CrossFit is a global phenomenon and so some precautions need to be put in place. But in the end personal responsibility is what is a stake.

Were you referring to the article from Buttman magazine?

Those of you ragging on the Christians who are as repelled by porn as you are by their reference to scripture are only showing you are as "closed-minded" as they are. There IS a place for Faith to enter this discussion.

Just because you don't like faith being brought up, doesn't give you the trump card. Liberty belongs to them and their words, as it belongs to you and yours.

Many of them are wrong, not because the espouse their faith, rather their intent to SILENCE.

YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT in your desire to silence them. If you have a valid opinion, CONVINCE them you are right or at least that you have a leg to stand on.

It is not about the PORN.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and here's mine: some of you have skin that is way.... WAY too thin. Go fight someone or something, good lord.

Adam/TempleOwl No offense but you are 19, what possible insight could you provide on porn being destructive to the family. Wait til you have your own family. Marry a woman who you love and who loves you and then go tell her after you have been married for a while that you look at porn all the time and see what it does to your marriage.

What an incredible day of postings. love, hate, religion, self-realization (and hopefully now forgiveness and understanding)

Whaddaya' got now coach? my legs are still crushed, but I say bring it tomorrow, we can burn off this blog.

I forgive you john.... but that's not my job, is it?

J. Kru, thank you. I am glad to hear you are a man of principle. I like that.

I will be glad to escort you to the door. Right this way Sir. (SLAM!)

Anyone else need to see where the door is?

Thin the herd.

Hmmm...lots of meat on that Rest Day bone today, eh?

I look at the main page pretty much every day, and I at least browse the comments pretty much every day. Certain trends emerge, at least to my eye.

Think it's a coincidence that today's topic coincides with what looks like the conclusion of the ANC series? Boy, I don't. Could it be that Coach and Lauren are subtly pointing out the difference between the pictures/videos on CF's main page and the topic of today's discussion? Perhaps a subtle comment from them on the (over-) reaction on the comments to pictures/videos of ANC or last weekend's Fran or the picture on ANC's laptop?

And what of the video today? If you closed your eyes today, and indeed for most of the other ANC videos, could ANC have been just any CF newbie, swept away with her enthusiasm for the CF fitness program? In all of the blather about the ANC visuals and whether we've had enough ANC in our diet, did anyone else notice the amount of personal growth demonstrated over the course of the series? I could be wrong, but Lauren is a pretty savvy woman; I'll bet she saw episode 6 when she met ANC and that's why she commissioned the series. Perhaps the 21 yo ANC reminds her of the CF women we all cherish in their "before" stage, when Coach and Lauren did not have the wherewithal to document their development. We'll shall see, eh?

The posted link for discussion? Man, that's just too easy. Coach makes no secret when he posts here that he favors liberty and freedom above nearly all else. Could it be that he is asking us to discuss how much (or how little) we agree with that stance by offering up a radioactive example, to ask us to examine where we draw the line of freedom and why we draw it there? And to whom we would confer the task of drawing the line?

Porn, in general and in all of its forms, bores me (YMMV). I think the most reasoned post thus far on that topic is Barry's #13 (and Barry, that post is so good that literally nothing else you say can do anything but detract--put your feet up for the rest of the day). Boobs, for the most part, the same (again, YMMV). I spoke at some length Sunday 5/11 on that topic. Wanna talk about boobs? How about checking out www.feelyourboobies.com, a breast cancer awareness site.

More in a minute...

I agree bingo, I thought Barry got it right.

I support much of what John and others who want to bring God into this discussion are saying. However, if the Glassman's or anyone else out there wants to indulge in pornography, it is their God given right to do so. God has given all of his children free will, freedom to choose good or evil. I don't say this to suggest pornography is OK with God, it certainly is not. But you are free to choose that path for yourself, to whatever dark end it may take you.

History is clear, once the moral fabric of a nation is torn apart and the family unit is distroyed, both of which pornography help to bring about. The demise of the nation is close at hand.

Joey - Thank you for showing me the door. What's with the slamming? Do you get angry when people don't agree with you? Do you slam doors? Are you angry that I pointed out that Crossfit links to pro-porn sites while people mention their new babies (#156)? That Crossfit is family friendly but the article of the day is from Buttman magazine?

What principles were you thinking of? It seems that you're speaking in sarcasm.

Thinning the herd - awesome. Is that how you think of your clients and other CF members, or have you just watched Jarhead and Fight Club so many times that you think the real challenges in life are hard workouts in gyms that like alliteration with the letter "C"?
I can still hear you through the window.

MB #3 re: Main Page WOD selections.

Firstly, I think your observations are valid given the question that you asked and the manner in which you framed it. I took a peek, and although I frankly didn't notice the trend, I think it is there.

Having said that, it is unlikely that we will know what the rationale is behind the recent choices unless Coach offers one up in public. He flatly stated just before the introduction of the CFT that CF needed to increase its emphasis on strength. Now, we probably could have inferred that without his posts, but he was pretty up front on that one. Likewise, Coach opined that he had observed a trend wherein CF'ers were strong in the frontal plane (abs) and weak in the dorsal plane (back extensors). This was followed by a series emphasizing all kinds of WOD's with back extensions.

But in general we don't get that kind of guidance.

Crossfit is moving toward a model where a significant amount of the Crossfitting is occurring in the Affiliate gyms. Perhaps a trend toward simplification and accessibility is afoot as the Main Page becomes more of an introduction to the CF universe, and less of the only CF universe available. Search me. Ask Coach some time; he's remarkably open and honest about this whole gig. If it's a business decision he'll likely tell you. If not, same thing.

Dale Saran on Crossfit Veritas in Rhode Island has said many times "I'm a Front Page guy," meaning that in general he simply follows the front page WOD for his fitness (and he's an affiliate and a trainer). Likewise, superstars such as OPT have said on interviews that they still use the Main Page WOD as their primary work-out focus even when they are posting a local WOD at their box. Want some variety? A different flavor of CF Kool-aide? More (or less) intensity? Many, many of the affiliates graciously post the WOD for their box on their web sites, all of which are linkable from the "Affiliate Blog" on the left side of the Main Page. I sometimes do just that.

Having said that I'm pretty much a Main Page CF'er, just like my guy Dale. At 48, unique WOD's or not, what is found on the Main Page is more than enough for these old bones.

Again, YMMV.

The end is nye! The end is nye!

Anyone else notice that it's always the Bible-thumpers who assume that Coach/Crossfit supports porn? Hmm.

Alright, since everyone else is weighing in, I have a few talking points.

#1. Websites on the Internet are the equivalent of a building with no windows or a television channel. Yes, anyone can go into it or push the button to turn it on with the proper equipment, but they can similarly do the opposite. That freedom to choose is yours. Please don't try to take it away.

#2. No one forced you to view the video or to view porn. I believe the protection from forced viewing is what is indicated by the ruling against obscenity. For example, if the dance in the video was being performed on the street, it would not have the same protection I believe it deserves as free speech.

#3. The government does not have an obligation to terminate all things that are disgusting, offensive, or even pointless based on only those characteristics.

#4. While an addiction to porn may be damaging to families, it is not the porn industry's responsibility to make you use your self-restraint any more than Budweiser can stop you from getting drunk. Consume responsibly.

Simple language and a stinginess with words are signs of a higher evolution of communication, one that I (and my friend Barry!) have clearly not achieved.

I take my hat off to Coach Rip, and only wish I'd beaten him to the punch!

Cheers, Rip.

WOLVES!

One poster mentioned that there were worse things to protect your kids from, and one thing they listed was wolves, which got me thinking...

What would be your WOD based on the concept of being chased by/ fighting off/ escaping from a pack of wolves? (See...this whole thing might have been planned by Coach to bring the conversation full circle, back to a new WOD! The man is brilliant!)

So...what is your recipe for the WOD "Wolf Pack"?

WOLF PACK

Run 400 m (running for your life)
15 Rope Climb (trying to get into a tree/etc)
10 Kettlebell Swings (2 pood) (throwing large objects at the wolves)
5 Muscle Ups (climbing even higher because now the wolves are really mad)

Let's say three rounds, but maybe 5 depending on how many wolves are chasing you.

#226

After all the smart people leave, could you please seal the door shut so those who like to live in the same filth you do, do not come out out and pollute the real world out side your tiny little box.

Thank you!

I like liberty too, and I'm free to let those who make a living off porn defend themselves. His video was goofy, was that supposed to be arty? Made me laugh. Anf he's kind of creepy. Looks like last person in world who would help out someone else.

Allen #209

"Porn saves marriages...." that has got to be the highlight of the rest day discussion!

John....

"Porn destroys families..."

Porn does not destroy families. No more than alcohol or fast food destroys families. It is the abuse, overuse and addiction that destroys families not porn.

Personally I do not see many positives in the consumption of pornography and in general I do not find it very simulating but indulging in it and producing it is a personal choice. If you over indulge in anything fast food, alcohol, pizza, porn or exercise for that matter you are bound to run into problems and have the potential of destroying your life/family.

The rest day discussion is not about porn it is about freedom of expression and freedom of choice. If you are offended by the rest day discussion you can a.) complain and whine about it b.) ignore it.

One thing is for certain complaining about it in this public forum is not going to get your very far, but that is just my opinion.

My point is this. John Stagliano/Buttman should be free to create whatever type of stupid pornographic film he wants to.... You are free to ignore his films. He is obviously filling some kind of market considering he has produced 30+ films in the buttman series. So be it, I think what he does is disguisting and vile but he should be free to do it. By the way I heard "Buttman In The Crack" on DVD is really good. Just kidding :-)

"Anyone else notice that it's always the Bible-thumpers who assume that Coach/Crossfit supports porn? Hmm."

#233

The truth (In the Bible), can set you free (From the filth in the world).

Did you see the buns on that?

Ya, he must workout.

J Kru, Sorry, I thought you were leaving. Glad to see you are back to discuss the issue and not making more "threats" to leave. Also, glad to see you recognized you were wrong.

As for me and my principles..

You wrote: "Thinning the herd - awesome. Is that how you think of your clients and other CF members, or have you just watched Jarhead and Fight Club so many times that you think the real challenges in life are hard workouts in gyms that like alliteration with the letter "C"?"

Since you don't know me, know what I and my brothers do, or know my history with CF, I will let this comment slide without further explanation.

I will let you in on something. Your false assumptions are destroying your own arguments about CF and me.

John #241 said

"The truth (In the Bible), can set you free (From the filth in the world). "

This is a great example. You are free to say things about religion and try to sell the percieved truth that you see in the bible, and I as an Atheist are completely free to ignore you. Isn't the freedom of expression great?

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religon too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
In a brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say i'm a dreamer
But i'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
- John Lennon

I hope you could all see the message in this song. If you strip down everyones personal beliefs, notions, objections what are we? Equal human beings and none of these problems would matter. I think everyone should stop, re-evaluate this topic ,strip down your personal beliefs and respond to this topic as equal human beings. Then i hope we can have a real discussion

Guys, I'm not sure what video some of you watched..but what is the big deal. Since when has porn video's been an issue.

I just thought, WOW.look at ALLLLL those beautiful bodies. kinda inspired me to keep training. NOW child porn and perverts that watch them, OK, now we talking NO NO!!!

hahah. Get a LIFE people!

Enough has been said about freedom, porn and the related issues. It seems as though Cross Fit is at a cross-roads.

My company sent me to get certified. They paid for it. Whether a company is I.B.M., the N.F.L. or a government entity, they have concerns about their reputations and associations. I am not addressing the "right or wrong" of porn, but the reality that all organizations face when trying to be viable businesses and entities in our communities. It is unlikely that those seeking to be successful members of their community will champion the support of porn. Mine will not allow it. I have discretionary authority to adopt all training for my organization. But, it falls on me to make decisions that are both not only sound on an applications basis but also that do not do anything to embarrass my organization or elected official. Indeed, my organization along with other businesses I have spoke to about this, have similar policies in place that prevent us from associating with those things that would bring disrepute to us. I along with others in "upper management" have responsibilities that supercede our personal likes and dislikes. I have to consider others before myself and my own desires. My reputation in my community and organization are a result of 21 years of effort. My business is far older than my measely career. Cross-Fit is new to many people and I believe is on the cusp of revolutionizing fitness for the better. I am concerned that many of us will be left out (both organizationally and personally) because we will be unable to support Cross-Fit before our employers, clients and families.

I am no better that the next guy or gal. I am humbly asking that the powers that be give many of us the stroke we need to continue to fly the Cross-Fit banner by stating that Cross-Fit does not support the pornography industry. The pleasures of man are many should be shared with discretion and wisdom. Porn is not a large part of most people's lives and for some has caused pain. I would defer drinking in front of a friend who struggled with alcohol and would hope that we could all give those things that require it, their own quiet place in our lives.

Thank you for all you have done. I look forward
to supporting Cross-Fit.

John #241....

To your comment..."The truth (In the Bible), can set you free (From the filth in the world). "

I would retort that other people in the world might say....

The truth (in the Torah/Bagavagita/Tibetan book of the dead/Tao Te Ching/Book of Mormon and the Koran) will set you free (from Christianity).

You are just as much of an atheist as I am, I just happen to believe in one less god than you do. When you realize why you reject all the other gods and religions, you will realize why I reject yours.

Can somebody explain why this is on the website? What is the connection to fitness?
Am I missing something?

#244

You say you are an Atheist. But you are a liar. If you truly did not believe in a God, then you would not have known there was a God not to believe in.

The truth is, you do believe in a god, it is just not the God of the Bible. You chose to deny the God who made you, because you hate what He represents.

Good "Wolf Pack" workout ideas, Chad....anyone else have a different idea? (Reference Posts 236 and 237)

I've just recently gotten into CrossFit--I do a couple of the workouts every week and practice my deadlifts and such on my off days. I'm really out of shape but improving slowly.

My wife has looked on with concern--not only am I driving around checking out garage sales every Saturday (olympic plates are $1 a pound here in my small town in Alaska, so used is best), but I'm also spending quite a bit of time watching videos of fit firemen and policemen exercise--she claims the whole endeavor is a bit "gay" (not that there is anything wrong with that!). I've assured her it isn't (again, not that there's anything wrong with that!), but my protests have lost a bit of credibility now that you have a link to "Buttman Magazine" on your site.

Perhaps my wife is right (like I said, not that there's anything wrong with that!).

I'm curious about what some of you are calling "porn" or "filth". Does it include commercials for Hanes underwear or Special 'K' breakfast cereal? Before I pay any attention to you I have to know what you're talking about. I don't consider the video porn. Simply dancers performing an act. You may think it poor art but it's not porn. I kinda liked it, but then I don't think the human body is ugly and needs to be covered up all the time. I also don't think children would be harmed by watching it. What potentially harms children, in my opinion, is hearing adults cry out "obscene! obscene" when a body part is exposed. I think that can harm them.

Joey -

It's generally considered impolite to leave in the middle of a conversation. Manners, y'know.

But then, I suppose if it's OK to expose Crossfit Kids to Porn Defense, why bother with manners?

I haven't recognized I was "wrong." But you knew that.

No, I don't know what you and your brothers do, other than run a CF gym, and apparently alliterate. You're welcome to tell me what you and your brothers do, what your history with CF might be, or what you mean by "thinning the herd." From your website, I would have thought it meant that those without a true commitment to intense fitness would naturally drop out. But in a discussion on ethics, it seems to mean that those who think sexuality should be appropriately expressed are the ones who will naturally drop out.

[This is the part where you explain.]

And I wasn't questioning your principles. I was responding to your comment that you were "happy to see you're a man of principle." I was wondering, specifically, which principles you were admiring, or if you were being sarcastic, what your sarcasm was directed to.

So don't let it slide, Joey. Pick it up and slap it around a little.

Here is a few rest day topics that Lauren or Coach can try:

"Defending our right to beastiality" or the ever popular. " Children need to learn vulgar words otherwise no one will understand them." or how about. " Can we use sophistry and do whatever we want?"

Then again topics like: " With freedom comes responsibilities like; civility and self restraint." might not be stimulating.

***************

I just want to get into good shape. I started Crossfit because Coach Glassman has figured it out. But the tax of vulgarity is increasing.

Thanks to our forefathers I can always leave if I want. I'm looking at my CF certification and hope it will have value to me, or to what I percieve as good. It certainly gives me pause about attending another crossfit cert. Well it's my own fault, Had I been reading/watching all of the posting before jumping in to EXERCISE I may have looked at other alternatives. It just never occured to me that it was a forum for such colorful topics.

I have witnessed how incredibly damaging porn can be. It is almost beyond my ability to even think about what occurred. The long term effects on these people is beyond calculation and that is only one incident.

Because of my obvious bias, I can't really remain unbiased or be very open minded. You bring porn into my home and you are my enemy.

Crossfit.com please be careful about using such divisive subject just to stimulate discussion. There are other ways, other articles, that could have done this. I have a knot in my stomach because I may have to decide against participating in such a great fitness community.

BTW, till now, I've only posted my WOD results to participate in a great program. I thought that other old guys need to see what I'm doing. I'm 54.
So far I've only missed one WOD an I've done every WOD as rx'd.

John also #249 -

But you are not a nihilist. You have some kind of source of values. What do you think is important? Where do your values come from? On what grounds do you claim there is any kind of injustice in the world?

#246

Funny you quote a song by a former Beetle. The Beatles were in the same camp as Alister Crowley, who was on the cover of one of their albums by the way. Who was Alister Crowley you might ask? Do a Google search for your self and find out.

He was a bisexual heroin addict who held deep satanic and racist view points. But hay, that does not mean the Beloved Beatles supported him, right? After all, all they did was em pose a picture of him on one of their albums.

That would be like saying CF does not endorse porn, even though they posted a link to a pro-porn organization seeking donations in support of the ever corrupt multi-billion dollar porn industry.

Alister Crowley was all for no heaven above, and no hell below, just here and now. That is the selling pitch of Satan himself. "Don't worry about a Heaven, or a Hell, just live how ever you think you should live."

If you live your life according to your very own idea of what is right, and what is wrong, in the end Satan knows you will be 100% his.

John, even though I don't agree with your views or basing your views on the Bible or any religious tract, I do applaud the fact that you haven't let the more conservative posters chase you off. They can be bullies who stifle any meaningful discussion contrary to their conservative viewpoint. I'm not even sure that they always represent the majority ethos of the posters, I think that in many cases others who might post an opinion different from theirs just don't want to be attacked. Their freedom of speech defenses can seem hypocritical.

I'm so confused!

Pro ro con, how does all of this fit into the "garage gym" and tough, intense workouts where we started in 2000?

John,

That is because they viewed him as in an equal Human being. They did not judge him as an individual because of his past,current or even future actions. They judged him simply as an equal human being. Which you obviously cannot do...which saddens me deeply.

If i must bring religion into this conflict, doesn't our religion ,Christianity, practice and endorse Forgiveness?

There has been a lot of commentary today on first amendment rights and freedom. One thing I have not seen is acknowledgment that we believe in the democratic rule of law. We, as a people, choose to obey laws that limit our freedom because we view certain limitations as being in the best interest of society. I hate speed limits, but I abide by them (mostly) because we, as a society, feel that they protect our safety. We limit "freedom of speech" with libel and slander laws. Should heroine and meth be legalized to "protect our freedoms?" Would society be better if drugs were more readily available? Would we be better off if we could do anything we wanted with no consequences-no laws? Each person will feel differently about each law and it is (hopefully) societal consensus that leads to the establishment of laws that the majority support and choose to live with. It is an unfortunate commentary that we live in a time when individual freedom has become the only value we fight to defend. Why is it that any effort to curb morally degrading material is an affront to people who defend their views as "protecting personal liberty?" The protection of individual freedom to the exclusion of all other considerations is changing the constitution. Not through changing the words, but by changing how it is viewed and interpreted. We are turning it completely on its head. We have replaced feelings of responsibility with feelings of entitlement, and the constitution I've sworn to protect and defend is being diminished and made irrelevant by its own people. We are our own worst enemy.

#256

I commend you for your courage to post your thoughts, and take a stand for the Truth.

If Coach Glassman (or will it now be Coach Buttman), does not set the record straight and remove the link to the Pro-porn website, then there is no other choice for the man or woman of Godly principle but to disassociate from CrossFit and the CrossFit community.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to stand by and do (or this case say), nothing. -Edmund Burke

#256
The knot you feel in your gut is the Holy Spirit. CrossFit has brought porn into your home.
----------------------------------------------
2 Cor 6:14-18:
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

"I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people."

Therefore

"Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you."
'I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the Lord Almighty."
---------------------------------------------

The choice, whether to stay or leave Crossfit (absent a formal apology and accountability from Mr. Glassman and his wife), is simple for the Christ follower.

Keep our heard for the Lord strong, we need not mingle with the vices of Satan (porn) nor mingle amongst those who promote it, and or defend it!

When someone creates an argument based on Bible verses, it forces me to either ask them to present a secular, logic-based argument (which, as seen above, some people freak out about) or to create a religion-based counter-argument. And a discussion based on dueling biblical verses is no longer a discussion about our constitutional rights - it's a discussion about what God has said about a subject. And if someone wants to discuss theology with someone else who wants to discuss theology, that's fine. But I don't think that it's repression of any kind to say that a conversation about liberty should actually be about liberty. Once it's about religion, it's off-topic. The Constitution is not religion, legal precedent is not religion, and when someone has difficult discerning that there are many things in the world that are not about religion, they lose ground with the many people here (both religious and not) who can.

I posted earlier and I have been following the "discussion" - it is more like yelling, screaming, and name-calling.

It is hard to believe that there is a "sense of a CF community" because every 4th day we verbally tear each other apart. Does someone get enjoyment or satisfaction from this?

It is sad that this has become the definition of a "mental workout."

Congratulations John, your post #245 was so ludicrous and so painfully embarrassing that I feel the need to post!

For someone who does their best to practice tolerance, I find that comment reprehensible. The only reason you even get to publicly say unintelligent drivel such as that is BECAUSE you live in this country - nice of you to notice and show your gratitude to those that serve and protect our amazing country. I just feel bad that you choose not to fill your heart with gratitude and tolerance.

As for AllisonNYC, she is a wonderful person with a good heart and a pure love for CrossFit. She drops the f-bomb, she is beautiful, she has a smokin' hot body and she can whoop most of our a**es on most of these WODs. I'm just grateful that she is mature enough to laugh off the haters.

CrossFit has changed all of our lives for the better or else we wouldn't be here in the first place. Appreciate that and those in the CF community and move on! Life is too short to judge and hate!

'Michael", details posted there.

okay John,

I guess forgiveness has left your heart. let me just say Not everyone practices, or teaches discernment.Sure I applaud you for spreading the Word of God...Your methods though I do not. If In your eyes all this is a sin. Then I say,

“HE THAT IS WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST STONE!”

#114 Franklin,

What I was getting at in a very peripheral manner is that Freedom, TRUE freedom only comes from submission...there really is no freedom to do what one pleases at all times...that is anarchy.

I understand that there is a slippery slope to government deciding what's right/wrong, but I also understand that our country isn't based on doing what one wants, but living within the confines of what We the People deem ordinary, safe, or legal...

The other side of that slippery slope is the side to anarchy...a very open and "liberal" (not in the political sense) interpretation of current laws.

Simply, porn, like I said is a choice to make or view...that choice should remain, but only because the people have yet to decide it shouldn't, if they ever do, that "freedom" won't exist. And since Porn has no bearing on lifting society, I could care less if it was illegal and therefore don't really consider it a "freedom" I fight for.

people like john are very dangerous in our culture because they are convinced that they don't just have "opinions" but rather are champions and guardians of "the truth." a truth as they see it through their own view of christianinty.

john wants to boycott crossfit and a few others do too. so be it. but what does support for or against people being prosecuted for the movies they make have to do with crossfit being a very good fitness program? i mean even if coach glassman were a porn star on the side (sorry coach couldn't resist), does that make the workout program somehow less effective? no.

but go ahead and boycott john. i have a hunch coach doesn't give a shit if you do. you see your threats of a boycott probably don't have much impact on a guy who has never asked you for a single penny.

to those whining about the benchmark workouts

they are benchmarks. ways of determining if you are getting more fit over time. they were devised through a lot of research and experimentation into what combination of movements work well together in making you fitter. if you think there is a better system somewhere else then feel free to click your mouse and move on. again, this stuff that has made you more fit than you have ever been in your life is FREE!

I have yet to hear an ethical argument that was both secular and logic-based.

Ethical logic only functions with the presence of given facts, which are assumed to be correct. Try proving anything without assuming anything.

Seriously, take a shot at it. Try to demonstrate, through secular logic, why ANYTHING ought, or ought not, to take place. "We ought to help starving nations. We ought to oppose rape. We ought to stay healthy." It can't be done without invoking assumption. You are a religious being at heart.

[It's really the same thing in mathmatics, although less obvious. I can prove that 1+1=2, but I'm assuming that the integer "1" carries the same concept each time I use it, and I'm assuming that it means the same thing to you as it does to me.]

So what exactly are you going to base a conversation on? The Constitution? Why should anyone follow that?

Let's try to seperate the argument for what ought to be LEGAL and what ought to be UTILIZED and DEFENDED. As I said before, I think Ramen noodles ought to be legal, but I don't think they should be utilized.

#261 says in response to an enemy of Christ (Alister Crowley):

That is because they (The Beatles) viewed him (a Satan worshiper) as an equal Human being. They did not judge him as an individual because of his past, current or even future actions. They judged him simply as an equal human being. Which you obviously cannot do...which saddens me deeply.

If i must bring religion into this conflict, doesn't our religion, Christianity, practice and endorse Forgiveness?"
-----------------------------------

If you were a child of God, and true follower of Christ, then nothing I have said would deeply sadden you my friend. The truth is, you do not know God, or His Son. If you did know Him, you would hate what He hates and love what He loves.

You would not defend those who appose God, anymore then you would attack those who love Him. You are so brain washed by the mainstream liberal, that you are afraid to judge evil as evil, and see good as good. we all judge, and to say I am wrong for passing judgement is in itself a judgement, and makes you a hypocrite.

I make no apologies for my posts. I defend my faith where ever I go. I am the same man alone, as I am with the crowd (most the time). ;)

Those weak minded individuals who cower from any adversity, and shrink back when the yard bully barks, have no place in God's kingdom. Christ chose His 12 carefully. He did not chose weak and frail mined men to set the foundational work for His Fathers Kingdom. He chose a rough and rowdy bunch (mostly fishermen, and a tax collector or two), then polished them to His perfection though the various trials they would endure from His enemies.

My goal, (nor should it be any Christians goal), is not to convert everyone to faith in Christ. It is to boldly speak the truth in the gospel to all men, so that they might be saved. The words of Christ are like the stench of death to those who reject Him, and sweetness of everlasting life to those who embrace Him.

There are many CrossFitters who would serve Christ and the expansion of His kingdom well. But they think being a follower of Christ involves weakness.

I tell you the truth, following Christ is the toughest path you will ever march. If the world hated Him, which it did, then it will hate you too.

Lord Jesus, "Hooyah Lord Jesus!"

John -Out!

Wonder if he drank the punch yet?

#203 liv4tris: Her name is Annie Hawkins aka Texas Annie. She did a few interviews that you can find on the site and a workout demo of "Diane". She's as strong as she looks.

Why is everyone so freaked out by the s and f words? Would it be better if I replaced them with poopoo and sexual intercourse? Give me a break.

I have a 3 year old brother and I don't curse around him. You guys aren't small children are you?

After reading thru all the traffic, I think #249 and #250 are two of the best.

Ironic that the US is in a war against "freedom haters." One of the reasons we don't like them is that they think displaying women's hair, faces, ankles, etc is pornographic. And it's based on "the word of GOD." Amusing but sad to see the parallels. John you have more in common with the Taliban and Wahabi kooks than with anybody I have met in two decades in the US Army. They the kooks would take your argument just a little further and say that the entire US supports immorality, and that's why we all are worse than terrorists and murderers, and deserve to die!

FWIW, I and my wife (probably like most people) don't mind porn on occasion but also we aren't crazy about it. (Proves that it's not damaging or addicting to everybody.) But I agree as such a controversial issue it distracts from the fitness theme. Questionable from a business sense if their only goal is to expand crossfit, but I applaud them for stimulating discussion and thought. There are more important things than expanding business.

By the way, John, a note on spelling/accuracy. We "cite" articles or sources, but crossfit.com is a web "site." "Sight" means vision. "Revelation" is the last book of the bible, and unless the author is lying, his name was John, not Jesus.

AllisonNYC - not my type, talks too much without saying anything useful. Would like to see more variety and more exercise videos.

#231 bingo,

I was hoping Coach would weigh in on this issue like he has occasionally in the past. I'm a front page guy too. Thus far, I would probably be a front page guy even if my affiliate wasn't. However, I would prefer not moving away from front page workouts because they lack things that front page materials have taught me to value.

Porn does not destroy marriages and families. People and their addictive behaviors destroy marriages and families. People's immature REACTIONS to things they consider offensive, obscene, vulgar, etc. may destroy marriages.

A spouse with a porn addiction is a SYMPTOM of a marriage that is already dead or dying or in serious need of attention on a physical and/or emotional level. Or a symptom of an addictive/compulsive peronsality disorder, or simple inability to grow up and deal with reality.

Alcoholism destroys families too, does that make alcohol EVIL? What about guns, are they EVIL? How about people who spend all their time on exercise/training/sport/hobbies/work/religion/travel/reading/etc and neglect their marriage and family? Should we ban all discussion/links to all potentially addictive substances/activities/concepts? Military Deployment destroys families too, should we ban all mention of the military from Crossfit?

Grow up people!

Thin the Herd is right...

Man,
I feel like I'm starting to burn in hell!

Wait a second.
I'm just in florida and I'm atheist.

Never mind.

John - you need to visit some countries where liberty is not so freely available.
I come from one and like it here in the US a lot better.
Except for the Zealots like you who think everyone is evil.
But hey, perfection is a concept that we can only strive for.
For me - it's trying to knock some sense into "the man with one book".

I think you all need a course in E-prime. "Porn is evil" vs. porn seems evil to me.

Re #275:

Certainly it's excessive behavior that destroys things. Food, alcohol, etc. are good examples.

But the "moderation" argument is weak. A little porn is OK in moderation? That's like saying that not killing anyone is too little, and mass murder is too much. A little murder, in moderation...

The problem is that porn is not a category unto itself, it is a subset of sexuality. And sexuality is not a category of extremes, like alcohol - moderation, not too much. It is a category of usage, like fire or guns. You can't have "too much fire." You can't have "too little fire." You can have a bonfire or a match - the problem is how you use the fire. A bonfire on the beach with friends is a good time. A match to your neighbor's oily rag pile is a bad idea.

Sexuality in the right place is a great thing. Porn is not "sexuality," just use it the right way. Porn is sexuality applied in the wrong place. You can try to moderate it, but even a little porn is a burning match on the oily rags on the garage floor. You might catch a break, but usually it will light up the floor, the car, the garage, the house, and everyone it it.

So, #275, alcohol is not evil, but it can be applied to good or evil ends. Guns are not evil, but can be applied to good or evil ends. Porn is, in fact, evil, because it is sexuality applied to an evil end.

Still waiting for anyone to take the challenge in #269.

Also today:
About 80-85 percent effort CFT

Squat (in lbs)
55/5
110/5
185/3
230/3
275/2
320/1 easy
230/3

Press
55/5
100/2
121/1
143/1
154/1 a bit challenging

Deadlift
143/3
230/2
309/1
407/1 easy

RDL's (work lower back tightness and hamstring flexibility)
230/5
230/3
143/5

Total: 880

Some handstand pushup practice.

Kept it light and easy. Lower back now is feeling tons better - it felt compressed and sore for the last few day so some blood flow is good for it!

First of all, does it say anywhere on the post that CrossFit supports porn? No...it was posted as a topic for conversation. For all we know, Coach or whomever else posted it may in fact dislike porn, but that's not the point.

What scares me is the knee-jerk reactions and jumping to conclusions from some of you people. Unfortunately this is the same kind of mentality that many in our government and many people in our society exhibit. It's what got us into the current war (another topic for another day), and is taking the lives of many of our soldiers.

The irony is that most of our soldiers enlisted in the service to protect and defend the freedoms that we enjoy, and yet a lot of the same politicians that voted to send them overseas (whether for the right or wrong reasons) are also hell-bent on taking away our very freedoms at home.

Personally, it may be my choice not to specifically support pornography and I may choose not to associate with people who do. However, I would still support their freedom to have it. If you want freedom, you have to be willing to accept that it isn't only for the things YOU think are worthy. It has to be across the board. I don't think it's right for someone to burn the US flag (I hate seeing it), but I'll always support the freedom that allows them to do it. Once we give the government the power to limit one thing, then it's another, and another, until we have no freedoms. Maybe today it's porn...maybe in a few years someone in government will try to shut down my CrossFit affiliation because I did "Fran" with my shirt off...

One last thing. A few of you need to get off your righteous, judgmental, high horses and think for a change before you react. "CrossFit can go to hell"? Spoken like a true fundamentalist. Thanks for giving the rest of us Christians a bad name. Now go do your wussy Globo-gym workout.

First of all, does it say anywhere on the post that CrossFit supports porn? No...it was posted as a topic for conversation. For all we know, Coach or whomever else posted it may in fact dislike porn, but that's not the point.

What scares me is the knee-jerk reactions and jumping to conclusions from some of you people. Unfortunately this is the same kind of mentality that many in our government and many people in our society exhibit. It's what got us into the current war (another topic for another day), and is taking the lives of many of our soldiers.

The irony is that most of our soldiers enlisted in the service to protect and defend the freedoms that we enjoy, and yet a lot of the same politicians that voted to send them overseas (whether for the right or wrong reasons) are also hell-bent on taking away our very freedoms at home.

Personally, it may be my choice not to specifically support pornography and I may choose not to associate with people who do. However, I would still support their freedom to have it. If you want freedom, you have to be willing to accept that it isn't only for the things YOU think are worthy. It has to be across the board. I don't think it's right for someone to burn the US flag (I hate seeing it), but I'll always support the freedom that allows them to do it. Once we give the government the power to limit one thing, then it's another, and another, until we have no freedoms. Maybe today it's porn...maybe in a few years someone in government will try to shut down my CrossFit affiliation because I did "Fran" with my shirt off...

One last thing. A few of you need to get off your righteous, judgmental, high horses and think for a change before you react. "CrossFit can go to hell"? Spoken like a true fundamentalist. Thanks for giving the rest of us Christians a bad name. Now go do your wussy Globo-gym workout.

oops! sorry for the double-post. computer got stuck and I hit post twice.

Wow. Hot button here. No time to read all the comments and respond appropriately. Should be able to Monday, possibly Sunday night.

One quick note, though. I did read John's post a while back, and while I can't claim to speak for
Coach, my hunch is that he just wanted to see what would happen if he posted that. These things constantly spin in odd directions, and I think he understands that, and at times just provides a deliberate provocation just to see what happens.

My guess is that he does support pornography in principle as a subset of speech, which is protected. Whether he personally supports it for himself is an open and really irrelevant question.

This is an opportunity just as much for those who oppose porn0graphy to speak up as for those who want to argue for us whatever merits they may believe it possesses, at least potentially.

I will add, actually, that a form of porn0graphy that might actually be useful would be one which included both sects and emotional depth. Some time ago I had contemplated scripts in which, for example, a man comes home and a woman is washing dishes, and he sees she is tired and tells her he will do them. Later that night. . .

And it ends with them reaffirming their love for one another. Monogamy and love are both included and reinforced. This is possible. The actors are an actual married couple.

I'm rambling. I'll be back in a day or two.

John,

I will say, though, that I understand what you are saying, but I think your judgement might be premature. I've been responding to Rest Day topics for the better part of 2 years, and this is the first time this has come up. The sad reality as well is that the overwhelming bulk of male computer users are regularly watching porn, even those in their early teens. There is no genie being let out of the bottle, but there is an opportunity for a thoughtful and sincere debate among us about what kind of society we value, what we should work to create, and where we want to go.

Bottom line: Coach isn't a perv, and you don't need to go anywhere. As far as that goes, I'm largely on your side, and will do what I can to help.

I think it is interesting that the most heated debate we've had was sparked by a video of someone defending pornography.

Not even a link to pornography.

An artistic video defending it.

Sex. This is what people are so worried about?

The outrage people have displayed just reinforces why it is important for us to be aware that very real threats to our freedom exist, and not just from the Islamists.

missed michael yesterday and did yoga instead (which was awesome and is finally opening my shoulders and increasing my ability to do Handstand push-ups), so, doing Eva variation today after seeing it over at navyseals.com CF WOD page:

5 rounds of
run 800m
30 2 pood kb swing
30 pull-up

53 minutes. I'm not afraid of a lot of workouts, but after doing Eva now twice, it's definitely on the list. That last set of KB swings is just a giant mental hurdle.

well im back to summer..on my hands and knees laying brick and breathing it in..after 12 hrs in the sun 6 days a week my training is taking a back seat..especially when the clients buy beer all day...not realy any point to this im just really bummed i cant go all out anymore n train with you guys..i just think about how im loosing strength n cardio, or just not getting anymore advanced...crossfit is my life i cant wait till this winter.

Interesting comments throughout the day, to say the least. I'll chime in with some of my own.

First, Lauren's posting title is merely copying the heading on the website to which she linked - "Defending our Porn! Protect our Freedom". If you missed that, then check out the site again. I find it next to impossible, knowing the Glassmans, that they'd be big porn industry supporters - especially with those kids they have and the people they associate with. (I.E. I'm sure John Stagliano isn't a client!)

Second, how does posting a link to www.defendourporn.org equate to supporting porn? Please explain (John) in detail how you arrived at that conclusion. I'm at a loss to understand your logic on that one. If you look at that site, which you (John, et al) probably did not, you won't find any porn on the site. The video there certainly isn't any more pornographic than most of what we see on tv, especially channels like MTV, and most shows that air after 9 pm. (Hey, I'm offended when I have to explain to my 8 year old what all those Levitra commercials mean.)

What you will find on that site, though, is a guy in trouble with the law who is trying to drum up support for his position. It's interesting how the principles of freedom of speech get turned on their head when it comes to porn, which isn't protected speech in this country. Those who advocate porn hide behind free speech arguments while those adamantly opposed to porn (i.e. John, et al) can't seem to posit any legal arguments at all - just moral ones. I get the moral stuff and the country is all over the board on where we stand on that. Fine, but get this, Osama bin Laden and his folks think it's perfectly moral to kill all non-believers (that's pretty much any American). I find that much more offensive than porn, which I can simply choose to ignore if I don't happen to like it.

Third, for those affiliates out there who posted that they were embarrassed about today's post, I wonder if you truly get the rest day thing. Exercise your mind as well as your body. Explain that to your clients and maybe they'll understand it better than you did, or didn't. Whichever the case may be.

For those (like that John guy) who want to sue CF for today's link, abandon CF and its principles, and never speak the work CrossFit again, I say, "Chill out." If something like this sends you that far over the edge, you probably need to seek professional help for anger management. I'd hate to accidentally cut you off on the freeway! Wow! (Absent drugs or therapy, perhaps you should just go do Fran and see if you can channel all that negative energy into beating Speal's 2:05 time.) I'd would love to hear, John, your legal arguments for why defendourporn.org doesn't have a leg to stand on in defending Stagliano, but I haven't read one post yet that touches on that. Why? Take your morality out of it for just one second and post a logical argument to defend the government's prosecution of pornographers. I can think of many.

So, what does this have to do with CF? Why did this topic come up? Because it stimulates thought, discussion, and passion while unmasking the indefensible. Think about the global warming stuff, the Iraq war writings, terrorism pieces, you name it. All to stimulate thought and discussion without advocating a particular position. Maybe the next rest day topic will be about abortion, or gay marriage in California, or assisted suicide. Now there are some hot discussions waiting to boil up! This isn't just a fitness site. It's a site that stimulates critical thinking and, hopefully, trains our minds not to accept everything we hear without conducting our own independent investigation, or fact finding. Keep it coming, Coach and Lauren, keep it coming.

Not to change the subject, but as for the WODs getting watered down or the programming changing, I'm not sure what that's all about. I find that the programming has become more refined from what it was three or four years ago. I also recommend that anyone questioning the programming go read the CF Journal from Feb 2003. You'll find the template, which you don't have to follow strictly, is much more CF WOD a la main page than what a lot of affiliates post on their sites, which often times ends up as just silly HIIT stuff sans heavy weightlifting and monostructural metcon days. (Fellow affiliates, feel free to weigh in here.) Do we at CFOC post our own WODs? Sure, but we follow the template and often pull a month's worth of WODs from six months ago and repost. We scale or change completely the obvious ones (like 30 muscle ups for time) when only 4 of 83 people here can do a WOD as rx'd, and keep the rest. The main page WODs do work - just look at Speal, OPT, and others. Their performance improves, not degrades. So, Coach and Lauren must be doing it right. Right? Quit complaining and just do the WOD. If you didn't get anything out of it, you probably didn't push yourself hard enough.

# 263 Dude, you on fire. Smoken!! I feel like I got a sun burn like Moses had when he went up on the mountain. You almost have me convinced. Just one question. Im used to the rest day fights but are we to assume this site supports what the link says? I mean I have seen some extreme topics thrown out here just to get this sort of thing going. Whether people admit it or not Porn affects you. You start to view woman or I suppose men as object and not as what they are. It affects the way you interact with them. And a whole host of other problems which have already been covered.

#287 Steve, Show me a video from 2003-2004 like the one today of Allison and you have proven your point. Post the link. Of coarse you’re going to have the position you have because you run an affiliate (a good one I might add). I just think we need to step back and remember what set crossfit apart when Coach started all this. And besides we are almost at 300 comments which is a rest day PR… I think

Regarding the AllisonNYC video:

IT IS NOT WFS!!!! C'mon, guys. If someone posts a link in the Message Forum without saying 'wfs,' a mod or someone else will quickly remind him/her.

But here, on the CF main page we have a vid with a fair amount of f*** and s***.

A lot of times I watch the videos with my daughters to give them good examples of physical fitness.

Next time think before you post, eh?

There may be a Goverment grant available from the National Endowment for the Arts. The working titles: Piss Porn or Piss Lauren.

If you were just outraged by the above, neener neener.

There's a little free speech! The sainted status of Coach and Lauren warrants this new art next to the famous Photograph; PISS CHRIST by NEA $15,000 grantee Andres Serrano For his photo of a crucifix in his piss.

All of this has been argued before. It's a divisive subject. You may think you want complete freedom but, freedom has to have a boundary somewhere. Am I free to yell "FIRE" in a movie theater that has no fire?

To often people put on the coat of liberty and freedom to justify or legalize their aberrant behavior or business model.

BTW, We americans are terribly egocentric. Crossfit is a worldwide community. Not everyone in the world wants to see us air our dirty laundry. Most people come to this site to get Fitness instruction. Not be lectured on our morals.

#263

The 'knot' I feel in my stomach is not the Holy Spirit. I feel that 'knot' whenever I have made a bad financial decision or if I have been duped because I didn't execute due dilligence. I don't think the Holy Spirit makes you feel bad.

My apologees to Lauren whom I've never met. Pretty clever idea though, and be compared to Christ isn't bad is it?.

Please, Please, let up on the worship at the altar of Allison.

If you want a CrossFit woman to admire, how about a documentary on Eva Twardokens, U.S. Olympic skier, 2007 U.S. National Masters Champion in weightlifting, excellent CrossFit trainer, and part-owner of CrossFit Santa Cruz Central?

Having just invested my life savings in a Crossfit gym on the "other side of the pond" I feel I have somehow earned the right to post my take on this subject.

There will always be conflicting views on this topic. In fact, having trawled through the 288 postings so far, and there wil be more, very few seem to deal with the rights and or wrongs of porn rather they address what Americans appear to fear losing most - namely freedom of speech.

As this is the "Affiliate Blog" I would like to approach this topic from that position - an Affiliate. For twelve months I have worked crazy hours to build a new business. I have invested both time and money in the hope I might provide a better future for my family and bring a better type of fitness to the community I live in. At our gym we are in process of introducing Crossfit Kids. In Scotland we have to go through a disclosure proceedure to be permitted to work with children. How would it appear if someone looks at the main site we are affiliated to, in fact, have a link to on our home page, and see that the section on Crossfit Kids is only a few pixels away from a link to pornography.

In the UK we had a very successful owner of a jewellery business of told a conference that he was amazed people bought the "sh**" he sold. This one throw away remark destroyed is business in a matter of weeks - (trangley he now runs a gym).

I appreciate Crossfit is not a franchise but it is a business which through certification and affiliation we all contribute in someway. What I struggle to understand is why this topic is even posted on the website. What is its relevance to fitness and Crossfit. I am not even going to enter into a discussion on the rights and wrongs of porn but I would like to enter into a discussion into the rights and wrongs of this posting. It has, in my opinion no place on the CrossFit website. The website obviously shold be used for the promotion of fitness and nutrition and the Affiliate blog for discussions between affiliates and interested members of the public. To read peoples comments tearing each other apart about their conflicting views on porn is not what it should be used for.

To avoid further embarressment to the CrossFit community by way of association(affiliation) to the HQ website, I would suggest removal of the topic and link. I appreciate this will seem like to some as censorship and due to the nature of the topic being one of freedom of speech, something of a "catch 22" position is reached. Remove the link and topic and you have allowed your rights to be censored. Keep the link and you risk allienation from some sectors of the community but you keep the moral high ground.

I would ask for common sense to prevail. We are not a global community that exists to discuss the rights and wrong of pornography. We exist because of a common interest in peoples fitness. If one person somewhere on the planet is put of Crossfit and general fitness training then we have failed in our task. If one gym that has invested in CrossFit loses a member because of this article we have failed.

A few key strokes put it up on the website, a few key strokes takes it down!

#293 - This is not the affiliates blog. This is the main page.

Sorry for getting it wrong, I will now go and ritually beat myself - still think the topics so wrong!

#289 - Hoover agent -

It'll very hard to find any videos back in the 2003-2004 era because Tony Budding wasn't doing them like he does now. What vids you do find back then were instructional only and the quality sucked.

I didn't mention anything in my post about anything related to videos, just about the complaints with regard to the programming and programming only.

Are some vids posted within the last year outside the scope of what we'd see on most fitness sites? Sure, but these, too, stimulate discussion. I, as I'm sure you do, prefer the videos of WODs and awesome record-setting performances, but for many out there seeing the average person getting interviewed or a videography (like the AllisonNYC vids) spices things up a bit.

Also, you're right, as an affiliate, I'm a little biased toward Coach. (Thanks for the kudos, BTW, on our affiliate.) Coach is genuine and gracious beyond belief and what you see on the videos is the same person you talk to in person. To say that I'm loyal would understate my commitment to Coach and to CF.

Having said that, I think I could also disagree with Coach and post my own views, so long as my position was supported with facts. I think that's what Coach wants everyone else to do too.

#270 John, you said, "If you were a child of God, and true follower of Christ, then nothing I have said would deeply sadden you my friend. The truth is, you do not know God, or His Son. If you did know Him, you would hate what He hates and love what He loves."

That is an interesting statement and something to think about for "true follower of Christ." Who did He love and who did He hate? He spent a lot of time with publicans and sinners, and yet there is no record of Him not loving them or condemning them as people. He encouraged them to repent and to follow Him. The only group He condemned were the pharisees and hypocrites...the religious zealots who had allowed religiosity to replace the love of God in their lives. Which group are we in when we come out calling people morons for their views and beliefs. Remember the sheep and the goats...

i have not posted on the hq site in a long time, but i find todays discussion fascinating.

john, you are obviously a moron. i don't mean because of your views and beliefs, but because you don't know how to spell or punctuate properly. maybe it's your passion for god that's causing the problem, but seriously, spellcheck brother.

that being said...
you must have an exaggerated opinion of yourself. you are claiming to know what God wants by quoting a (best selling) book written by followers of the "son of god". i'm glad you have such passion for our God, but you are, like everyone else on this planet-JUST A MAN! you are not God or Jesus or any version thereof.
you are a very hateful, unhappy person that could probably stand to watch a little porn, rub it out and get a good night sleep.

yep- I now know why Crossfit has us doing all those air squats...

#268 Aush

I very much agree with your sentiment. It is extremely likely that I will join the Armed Services in the next year, and I feel very strongly that the Freedom for which I will fight walks a razor's edge between slippery slopes, leading on the one hand to Anarchy and on the other to Totalitarianism. Your eloquent example, "[porn] is a choice to make or view... that choice should remain, but only because the people have yet to decide it shouldn't, if they ever do, that 'freedom' won't exist" resonates with me as central to Democracy. The Freedom that allows such decisions to be made is the Freedom I believe in and the Freedom for which I will fight.

Discuss the topic all you want, but its annoying to hear whining about whether or not it should be posted. Crossfit is not for everyone, if you don't like don't do it. You can't please everyone it is not just a fitness site it is more related to a philosophy. Part of that philosophy involves engaging in educated discussions on a number of topics often very emotionally charged. There is no official CF view point on the topic it is meant to be discussed. If it effects your business, maybe you should have researched crossfit more before affiliating and understanding what it is about. I don't think you should sacrifice free speech because you are afraid of what people think, maybe thats just me.

dsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsds

41 M 190#

Would have loved rest day, but Mom is a 5 year breas cancer survivor! My WOD: Montana Race for the Cure 5k 22:34 then run to find Mom to walk with her the rest of the course and finish with her. Beautiful day, couldn't have been better!

dsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsds

#301

There we go again, "free" speech. Why are you all hung up on free speech? Maybe I should have researched it further, believe me, I would probably have formed a different opinion. One opinion is that with CrossFit affiliation, speech is about the only thing that's free!

I Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good

Or for those who do not like Scripture, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

For those who try to live their lives according to the Word of God, take from CrossFit that which will help you to keep under your body, and bring it into subjection, for exercise profits us while we are on this earth and helps us to be good witnesses of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then throw out the stuff that does not line up with the Word of God.

I am thankful to live in a country where the Word of God has free course. If that means having to put up with monitoring what my (future) children see on t.v. or the internet, it is certainly better than the alternative.

Having said that, the indictment against this guy seems vague - obscenity. (To be honest, I don't want to spend the time to read all the legal stuff and try to figure it out.) If it is a case where they violated existing laws such as posting a warning on website that contains a trailer for a movie and the trailer has x-rated scenes in it, than he should be prosecuted according to existing laws. If those laws suck, then we should elect people to change those laws. In the meantime, let's be law-abiding.

Did the FBI really use the Patriot Act against this guy? Didn't they just look up the website he was using to promote his video?

“Defend our Porn. Protect our Freedom.” This phase seems to imply that any government action against any pornographer is, per se, an assault on freedom. But is it?

For those who are opposed to all pornography the answer is simple, but for those who take a more expansive view of the First Amendment, the issue is complex. For the latter group, the question whether there should be any limits at all.

My guess is that without exception, even the most libertarian among us are not prepared to argue in defense of, say, child pornography. It is generally agreed that not only the production and distribution, but also the mere possession of child pornography should be illegal. (The argument against possession is that it is not a victimless crime, since the very demand for the product is itself harmful to the children who are used to create material to satisfy the demand.)

In the current instance, the federal government has indicted a pornographer on obscenity charges. The government has cited exactly three works as being obscene. Given the hundreds of thousands of videos out there, might it be that these three works somehow cross a line? (Check the indictment and you can get an idea from the titles of the films what the government is going after here.)

The Supreme Court has been clear that to be held obscene, material must have no artistic value. This leaves a lot of room for pornographers to work within. Note that one of the three works being cited for obscenity is the trailer for an adult movie (but not the movie itself). The clear implication to me is that the government is taking the position that in the context of the actual movie, the imagery contained in the trailer is probably protected under the First Amendment. This strikes me as not necessarily an unreasonable position on the part of the government.

I think it is disingenuous to link to a dance number with topless dancers and thereby imply that the government is going after art. (The indicted filmmaker cites the dance routine as an example his “best” work, and it very well may be. It is also not the work the government is going after.)

I am not saying I agree with the government’s decision to indict in this instance. I am simply asking whether those who agree that most pornography should be protected under the First Amendment are prepared to argue that there is no pornographic imagery that should ever be found obscene and removed from circulation. Does absolutely anything need to go in order for us to be free?

The adult film industry seems to be arguing that any government limitation on what it can produce is a direct attack on all our liberty and free speech. I am not sure I agree. The courts have always recognized that there is some material that is utterly without any social redeeming value and therefore unprotected under the First Amendment. The three films cited in the indictment may or may not fall into that category.

It is interesting how some people get all angered up when a Christian takes a strong stand against evil, and against those who promote evil.

The Pharisees rejected Christ and His teachings that He was in fact the Messiah, the Son of the living God. For this belief, they were condemned!

For those who have nothing more intelligent to say other then, "Dude, use spell check." I say dude, proof your own post first before you dare to proof the post of another.

As far being a moron, for not using spell check or punctuating properly, I guess I am amongst many friends here, I just get to be associated with the title; but not because of my views, heaven forbid. -Yet another hypocrite open their mouth. LOL

Matt 10:14-15:
And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city! NKJV

Has anyone commented about the photo? Who are those folks and do they xfit in SC? Just had a beat down from camp socha.

Of for cryin' out loud...there is NO crime case!! It is a fictional account set IN THE FUTURE! Hello, March 2011....No one has ever been indicted on any sort of obscenity charges via the Patriot Act. And the chances of it ever happening are slim and none. 99.95% of everyone on this thread probably don't even know what the Act says or does. Get enough people to scream "The Patriot Act is destroying our freedoms!!", and sooner or later the lemmings will start to believe its true.

Man I go cut the grass and come back and see WWIII has broken out. Thought I had missed the rapture but I see my brother John is still posting so Im ok.

#306 Now thats "words of Iron that no paper can hold" -The Outlaw Jose Wells.

I do not think the link was a wise move.

John

Why do you assault my faith? I did not say that I hate you, so how can I be a hypocrite. You are confusing anger and hate. Anger is a natural emotion. Hatred is a denial of the humanity of another. For you to claim that God hates is to bring Him to your human level and strip Him of His divinity. To claim that you know the mind of God is utter blasphemy.

I do not hate you. I hope that you can find some compassion for those you view morally inferior and not condemn them to Hell while you bask in your own assumed virtue.

It always amazes me that all these people on here follow evidence-based fitness aka Crossfit and then quote their evidence-lacking religious beliefs or bible verses. I know its a sensitive issue, but folks stay in the realm of proof and leave the nonsense for your own little worlds. I need a drink! Can't wait till tomorrow so the nutcases crawl back into their holes and I get to hurt some more.

#309

Mr. Brown,

Your right, it comes across as a beating, and not a rebuke, or correction. My bad.

John

#311 Or in my case my bunker.

I stand with my friend Dan Thacker (#199) on this one.

I understand the importance of liberty. I spent my time in uniform defending it. I am an ardent CrossFit suppporter; you only need read my articles to realize how fervently I believe in CrossFit.

But I am growing weary of the obsession with boobs on the main page and the Allison videos, and so are my affiliate members. With all the topics and issues available for discussion in this world, this is the best way to spend our time?

I don't think so. CrossFit main page, you have disappointed me today.

Cindy make-up day"

22 rounds... 2.7 rounds off PR.... boo.

#313 Keep your chin up in that bunker. Thanks to you and your brothers.

John,

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-Noam Chomsky

After you've read that quote. Read it again. Then read it again. Then read it one more time.

The way you are talking is a damn slippery slope right into fascism...regardless of whether or not it's the "Christian" thing to do.

The bottom line is, you don't have to like it...and no one cares if you do or don't. Get over yourself and dismount from your horse. Maybe turn this antagonistic energy on tomorrow's WOD.

25/M/185#

Michael - 23:45

#310 wrote:
John,
Why do you assault my faith? (why not, if it is genuine, it will hold up) I did not say that I hate you, so how can I be a hypocrite. You are confusing anger and hate. Anger is a natural emotion. Hatred is a denial of the humanity of another. For you to claim that God hates is to bring Him to your human level and strip Him of His divinity. To claim that you know the mind of God is utter blasphemy.

I do not hate you. I hope that you can find some compassion for those you view morally inferior and not condemn them to Hell while you bask in your own assumed virtue."
--------------------------------------------

I do not claim that God hates; He (God) says it plainly in His word:

Deut 16:21-22:
Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole beside the altar you build to the Lord your God, and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the Lord your God hates.

Jer 44:4-6:
... "Oh, do not do this abominable thing that I hate!" ....'

Prov 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I (God) hate.
--------------------------------

#310 writes: "Hatred is a denial of the humanity of another."
-So if I hate crime, and every evil way, then I guesses by your standard we should not deny the humanity of murders by executing them, just let them keep on murdering the innocent. Ya, OK, that’s liberal logic at its finest.

#310 writes: “For you to claim that God hates is to bring Him to your human level and strip Him of His divinity.”

-No, it is a clear demonstration of the fact that instead of watching porn, like you may do, I study the Bible. While studying the Bible, I learned that God did in fact come down to my level, laying aside His divinity He took the form of a man, completed the ultimate "Literal Cross Fitted work out of the day," earned His death patch for it, and was buried.

After three days rest in the crypt, He jumped up and showed the world that He is worthy of all our praise! He is my King, and He knows my name, which is written in His Book of Life.

#310 writes: “To claim that you know the mind of God is utter blasphemy.”
-Is it? When did I instruct the Lord? But I do claim to have the mind of Christ, which is a Biblically based mindset.

1 Cor 2:15-16:
But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

#319 wrote: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-Noam Chomsky

-I do not draw from the words of a dead Jewish linguist (Noam Chomsky) as a source of wisdom. I have placed my faith in a living Jew, Jesus Christ. His words are life, your Noam Chomsky’s words do not even begin to compare.

And I do not believe in always saying the nice and politically correct things so as not to offend the tender minded people of the world such as you. I can be tender when I need to be, and I can be a hammer in the hand of God as well. If you can not take the pain, don’t expect the gain.

#310 Hoyah!! To the Living God!! Man you got me fired up now. Im primed for tomorrow.

J. Kru-

Here to slap it around.

You are missing a perspective, making assumptions and then running loose.

I cheered you on as you were on the way out, because you told us all how you were going to do it. When you came back I thought you were here to figure out why you had that urge to freak out.

However, now I realize that you actually just make statements without thought to consiquence. Much like an angry 3 year old.

You ware right, you have not realized you were wrong.. too bad. But, you are on your way. They say it is about the journey not the destination so, you are in luck.. this is going to be a long trip for you.

You wrote: "or what you mean by "thinning the herd." From your website, I would have thought it meant that those without a true commitment to intense fitness would naturally drop out. But in a discussion on ethics, it seems to mean that those who think sexuality should be appropriately expressed are the ones who will naturally drop out."

Thin the herd means, just that. There is a certain weakness expressing itself here, that has NOTHING to do with PORN. You are a prime example. Half-cocked you demand that CrossFit change...for you. Then you say you will leave. Fortunately, this has nothing to do with you nor sexuality. yet, somehow you have laid it out as if it does. That is the problem. People, CF'ers, and affiliates want from CrossFit to mold itself to their world-view.

You and others want YOUR interpretation of CF to be laid out for the world. You can not just take the gift you are given, instead through idle threats, and apparently some affiliates through financial means you want to "pressure" and demand CF to be what YOU want. This rest day topic just exposes it. Again, this has nothing to do with PORN.

Your immediate skiddishness of the subject matter and attempt to link it to CF Kids follows the standard ploy. "for the children" This is your issue. Deal with it. Did I mention that PORN has nothing to do with this?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

As for me and my brothers, we don't need to watch Fight Club or Jarhead. Our nature is defined by what we do day in, day out and what we are asked to do on occasion.

Enjoy!

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airforce/a/combatcontrol.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Special_Tactics
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dd4hk_-BJyE&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m0nxvk4Rrq0&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xSrNn9jxWyI&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=X_Vvq5zZ7UU&feature=related

100 situps
1 mile 6:20
FRAN 4:38
1 mile (hill run 7:00)
100 situps

I think I got a post in the hopper

Dude, John, may I recommend the books "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and "How to Argue and Win Every Time", for you are in dire need of them. Your condescending, vitriolic tone does not help your argument.

Well, Shut down the computer after reading the first 180-odd posts yesterday, and coming back this morning (Australia time!) to find 321. Hmm, with two small kids to look after today, I don't think I'll be getting thru this whole one.

For my two cents, i don't personally mind either way what the Johns, CCTJoeys, Coach Rips or anyone else of this world thinks about porn. I have my own opinion on the topic. And yes, I've read that the link is more about protection of free speech and liberty, which I'm all for, from this side of the world.

However, and it's been said before by others, we came to the site, and this community, first and foremost for fitness. The workouts, the blending of training modalities, the way in which this fitness program gets the very best of you is why I came, why I refer others here, and why I will keep coming back.

With that in mind, I know that the title (and, having not seen the link, I won't comment on the content) does, in one way or another, link pornography with this site. Not in a minor, comment-in-the-posts, or message-board obscure way, but on the main site page. With the decision made to air that link as it was, I would think it was unprofessional to CrossFit and not in the best taste, given the wide-reaching community that CrossFit has developed.

Will it stop me from coming to the site to learn about CrossFit fitness, and bettering myself both as a firefighter and as an althete? No, it wont.

Will I keep a close watch on what CrossFit brings up as topics for discussion in the future? Yes, I will.

I have no problem with free speech. I have no problem with Liberty. But I don't think CrossFit and porn need to go hand in hand in the public domain.

Ben McLean

Well, Shut down the computer after reading the first 180-odd posts yesterday, and coming back this morning (Australia time!) to find 321. Hmm, with two small kids to look after today, I don't think I'll be getting thru this whole one.

For my two cents, i don't personally mind either way what the Johns, CCTJoeys, Coach Rips or anyone else of this world thinks about porn. I have my own opinion on the topic. And yes, I've read that the link is more about protection of free speech and liberty, which I'm all for, from this side of the world.

However, and it's been said before by others, we came to the site, and this community, first and foremost for fitness. The workouts, the blending of training modalities, the way in which this fitness program gets the very best of you is why I came, why I refer others here, and why I will keep coming back.

With that in mind, I know that the title (and, having not seen the link, I won't comment on the content) does, in one way or another, link pornography with this site. Not in a minor, comment-in-the-posts, or message-board obscure way, but on the main site page. With the decision made to air that link as it was, I would think it was unprofessional to CrossFit and not in the best taste, given the wide-reaching community that CrossFit has developed.

Will it stop me from coming to the site to learn about CrossFit fitness, and bettering myself both as a firefighter and as an althete? No, it wont.

Will I keep a close watch on what CrossFit brings up as topics for discussion in the future? Yes, I will.

I have no problem with free speech. I have no problem with Liberty. But I don't think CrossFit and porn need to go hand in hand in the public domain.

Ben McLean

John - You have yet to make any legal argument for or against the government's position in their prosecution of John Staliano. Instead, you preach like many evangelists out there instead of making intelligent arguments based in fact. If you have to be a thumping preacher to be a Christian, then I guess I'm not one. Though I know in my own mind that I am. Please don't hijack my religion like the Islamic jihadists did to Islam. Your constant citing of scripture gets really old. All I can envision is Jerry Falwell or Jim Baker (or maybe a wayward priest or two). Get over it and deal with the issues.

What's the issue? It isn't whether CF supports porn. It doesn't. It's just rest day.

I really hope that this is "Defend our Porn, Protect our Freedom," is only in reference to government's over-involvement in personal affairs and is not in any way supporting the wicked porn industry. If ANY MORE links posted are promoting the porn industry then I want nothing to do with CrossFit anymore.

Well said, Ben #328. Discussion with friends at my affiliate today concluded with similar statements by me and others.

I also think MB (comment #3) is accurate. There has been a decrease in new creative wods on the main site. Ironically, there seems to be an increase in provocative rest day posts and pics.

Similar to the mainstream media, especially fitness magazines, is CrossFit substituting sex for quality content (new wods, for example)in order to attract readers? It certainly worked today.

#326 wrote:Dude, John, may I recommend the books "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and "How to Argue and Win Every Time", for you are in dire need of them. Your condescending, vitriolic tone does not help your argument.
--------------------------------------------

Thanks for your recommendations. But my friends are not won, or purchased through any attempt on my part to patronize them. My job is too tough to afford friends of that low of a caliber.

I also am in no need to learn how to argue and win every time, anymore then I need to learn how to be a liberal (I am as far right as they come, even a little to the right of Attila the Hun).

My friends respect and love me because they know where I stand, and can stand for themselves in what I know.

My arguments need no help, for they are not really mine to begin with. They have stood the test of time and will continue to stand long after you and I are at rest.

Good day!

Ponder this.

Maybe in your view, pornography is wrong and immoral.

In everyone's view, being judgmental, smug, and vain is immoral also.

To all you out there who have a problem with this video, I gotta say this.

YOU'RE NOT ABOVE THOSE WHO EXERCISE THEIR FREEDOMS ALSO, JUST AS YOU EXERCISE YOURS OF SPEECH. GROW UP.

41/m/5'10/235

2K row warmup, then yesterday's Michael.

39:46

Would've done Michael yesterday as rx, but I was too busy out defending our porn.

John....

so called "Christians" like you. are the reason its embarrasing to tell someone you have faith in Christ. becuase people can disassociate someone who believe's in Jesus Christ...the God of Love, and some kill everyone who does something i dont agree with attitude you display.

Jesus said all God's commandments revolve around the 2 greatest commandments. which are simply put. Love God. Love people.

you are displaying none of that here. your not trying to win over anyone with Love, your trying to beat them into submission. You know Hitler did the same thing, he thought he was just as right and as holy as you sound.

Jesus did chase the gamblers out of the church your right. Love God is the greatest commadment. Love people is 2nd. the people were viloating command #1, so he didnt have to be loving about getting them out.

but this is Crossfit. Not God's temple, no matter how happy it made you. But I got news for you my friend. people are going to look at porn whether you like it or not. and without becoming the very thing you dont want to be....a dictator.... you cant stop it. you can love people and spread the good word. but causing a ruckus on an internet chat board. does zero in furthering the kingdom.

further more. Jesus went into the places where the wicked were. if you think crossfits so bad, you should pray for it and the people and lead a postive God led example. instead of trying to beat them to be just like you think.

God loves people. all people. Even people in porn, watching porn, and supporting porn. and He loves Crossfit too. and if you dont agree. Then maybe you need to read the ENTIRE bible from cover to cover again before you condem others.

"Judge not.....least you be judged"

Vance

#332:

Ponder this too:

You can no more speak for every one's view, then I can. All you can do is give your own view (which, like mine, is very narrow minded).

Making righteous judgements when it comes to something as evil and destructive as porn is not only moral, and Godly, it is also courageous.

People will never follow those shallow and timid souls who are so afraid to make judgements, or cross the lines drawn by liberarly minded weaklings. No, they will follow a man with vision, and the intestinal fortitude to press on against the tide. One who speaks the truth, even when it may result in his death. This is the man (Jesus)I follow. This is how I live.

"Your arguement was going great, until you decided to correct someone on there spelling. so gay dude. You should read this, it totally suites you."

I count four spelling errors and a comma splice ;-)

Vance,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not chasing the infidel out of CrossFit. I'm leading the Christians out. Many have already emailed me and said they they are fed up with CrossFit, the perverted sexual course it as set itself on, and are leaving. CrossFit is a sinking ship my friend. Hope you know how to swim!

Since you do not know me, or what God may be using me for here, you need not concern yourself with me. If you are truly embarrassed to tell anyone you are a Christian, it is not because of Christians like me, it is because of your own lack of faith.

#304 Sniper 64-

Sounds like you and your mom had a great day!

#328 Ben-

Good post.

Not much of a porn fan. I do not think young girls that go into porn are doing it because they want to express their freedom of speech....probably a rent money issue. As in all things/products, if nobody watches/buys.....it will go away, until then- either watch if you like or look away. Just hard to get all patriotic when I think about Larry Flynt as some great American icon of speech.

Umm....did anyone actually WATCH the video (i.e. #249) or did most critics just stop reading at the word "porn" in the title? Was it just me, or did anyone else appreciate the amazing level of fitness those bodies in motion presented when performing their artistic dance moves on stage? Might one of those dancers have reached their level of fitness through implementation of Crossfit? Hmmm....how did everyone get stuck on the word "porn", and whether it's right, wrong, immoral, etc. and fail to appreciate the beauty of the amazing human bodies that were simply conveying food for thought in an awesome performance? Gosh!

Although nothing surprises me these days and I have seen just about everything, I was disturbed that CrossFit would use its Website to proliferate pornography as selected subject matter. I am trying to be kind and gentle about my thoughts here because up until now I have had the utmost respect for the CrossFit. I am in the process of becoming an affiliate and have started constructing my own website and would like to continue forging ahead with this goal, however, I am concerned. I have been a HUGE advocate of CrossFit and recommend the website to friends, neices, and nephews, my students at the high school level, college coaches, and clergy. Any of these people would would be appalled and shocked to discover that I would be associated with such a corporation that promoted porn. I can not be an educator and have a website that is linked to porn. Do you realize the harm and legal issues we are looking here?
Perhaps John Stagliano should continue searching for the meaning of life. ” Art Imitates Life” is a theme that is easily distorted and a way to generate a profane view of the sacredness of life. Pornography is an entrapment, a lifeline that leads to a tortured and embittered facade of freedom. Free will is an inalienable right but not all free will choices lead to freedom. There is a much higher calling that exploitation of the slickest technology, the most beautiful body, or the popularity of genre cannot compete with. EVER.
Spiritual eyes see beauty and sexuality in terms of the sanctity of life where exalted freedom is experienced interiorly and in communion with fellow man. Is is sad that so many people are not experiencing the elatedness of true freedom.
I don’t usually make my voice this public, but I ask CrossFit to consider removing this videoclip and article. Doesn’t CrossFit have a higher purpose that to be used as a venue for diseased morality? What about the virtuosity you speak of?

#300 Marisela: well done and said…LMAO

John: I agree with several other posts…I do not trust a man who uses one book as the only source of knowledge and understanding of life! Using scripture to validate your opinion is no different than a statistician using stats to justify a debate. Stats lie and liars use stats…a classic cliché in the financial world. I can pull out several scriptures to elicit a negative response for the posts you have posted rebuking you for not turning the other cheek, or not addressing the folks here as Christ himself reportedly would have. However, that in itself would be doing the very same thing you have done today…You sir have done a disservice to the other Christians out there.

The topic of porn…There wouldn’t be any need for porn if people didn’t buy it. Period! It exists because there is a market for it. Humans have a desire to be voyeurs even in the simplest of ways…Children giggling when they see grown-ups kissing…no harm, but the shear vision of seeing two humans kissing invokes giggling from children who can’t possibly understand the greater details associated with grown-up relationships. Humans will watch what others are doing even to their own peril…Rubber necking to see traffic accidents and causing severe crashes for themselves is just an example. Porn, is there because people like it, no different than the success of cross fit…it is here because people like it.

What is troubling to me is the quote “Moral Majority” has a problem with porn. They will invoke religious arguments against it and work hard to eliminate it using whatever means available…Read: Government! I don’t think a government should meddle with private enterprise regardless of the nature of the business as long as it is a legal endeavor. Read: not hurting anyone. Porn, no different than let’s say prostitution, is legal in some jurisdictions but outlawed in others. Why? Again prostitution wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t a market for it! I think the mass of the moral majority is so insecure with their physical prowess that they are in fact intimidated by porn. When you research the true numbers of people purchasing porn, it is impossible to get the numbers without members of the moral majority actually purchasing it. Hypocrites!

I for one think these rest day topics are interesting, serve a purpose and are designed to do exactly what they are doing. Keep it up.

Oh yes, John…you sir must learn someday (I hope you do) that there are no absolutes…Scripture will not answer every question and every debate. I feel sorry for you that you must rely so heavily upon it for you understanding and realities. You will find that relying so heavily upon absolutes will in fact let you down when you finally get outside the narrow viewed window you obviously seem to be living in.

It is sad to see that the crossfit media team has chosen to direct the focus of crossfit to the 'look' of the body instead of "Elite Fitness". Very interesting. Keep the Allison vids off. That is the complete opposite of the foundations of crossfit. Performance is what our crossfit measures, I don't want to see HQ turning into MuscleMag...cause that is the path it's taking.

#273. Replace them with poopoo and sexual intercourse? Why the need for the expletive in the first place? There is a time and place for everything. A year ago I dropped a 35# plate on my foot. Yes I screamed "F^#%". I certainly wouldn's use that word in an interview or to any of my clients. Is this an East coast, West coast thing? Seriously, at my cert. EVERY trainer used it generously. Do they require you blurt it out at least 3 times an hour to become a certification trainer? I guess us Midwest folk just have out undies on too tight. No I am not a 3 year old but I imagine many people have families and young children. I don't but if I did, I would certainly like them to use CrossFit as a source of fitness, especially as they cut back phys. ed. in our schools. I think your statements on this post are poor and tasteless. You make some solid points in your videos. Why not have a sense of decency and consideration? If it's not such a big deal...CrossFit....why do you not publish any comment that contains the word spelled out? What's the difference?

I don't think that judgement itself is wrong in any form. We use it every day to make decisions of all kinds. The only time people squeal about judgement is when someone judges another's actions to be wrong.

Being a firefighter for over 10 years, I have seen some completely amazing things. Multiple times I have arrived at a working house fire with a confirmed Rescue situation. It is unbelievable how many of these victims do NOT want to be rescued from their burning homes. Why is this? They don't know they are in danger.

Waking someone from a dead sleep in their own comfortable bed in their own home is a danger all its own. People fight us, until we remove them from the danger of their burning home and see the place they've been rescued from.

It is the same with Christianity. People don't like hearing they've violated God's law, the 10 Commandments. Today's flavor is #7, Thou shalt not commit adultery, which Jesus said that if you LUST after a woman you are guilty of this very thing.

Whether you THINK porn is bad or not, God says it is, and he will have the last word. Please see the danger in living outside the will of God. Your house is on fire.

Hey #63 when say: "We are here not to argue or get our "panties all in a bunch" we are here for the fact we would like to enjoy intelectual discourse on a social format with our peirs," you may want to wait until at LEAST the next sentence to start misspelling words. Especially the word intellectual. That's like spelling "smart" wrong. If you want to pontificate, spell check spell check spell check. Sorry LDS no hard feelings.

BTW, the only reason I read your post was to see if you were an Allison fan...you were so I have to point out at least some of the errors of your ways!

Anyway lets hope life has more "ins and outs" than "ups and downs"

#274 JWIN: "Revelation" is the last book of the bible, and unless the author is lying, his name was John, not Jesus.
------------------------------------------------

You are correct my friend. John is the author, but the book is a revelation of Jesus the Christ, not John. There are many places in this book where John quotes the very words of Jesus.
See Rev.
1:8
1:11,
1:18
And many, many more...............

So in revelations 2:6 and 2:15, it is Jesus who is speaking of the things He hates, and not John.

The writer (John) makes this very clear in
Rev. 1:17-20:
And when I (John) saw Him (Jesus), I fell at His feet as dead. But He (Jesus) laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lamp stands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lamp stands which you saw are the seven churches.

#269 "Divinely" inspired morality always goes back to "because god says so". Since you assume that god exists and that he did say so, there is no argument from a secular source that can satisfy you. That is the beauty of fundamentalism. It relieves the fundamentalist of any responsibility to apply reason and judgment.

#343 writes: "You will find that relying so heavily upon absolutes will in fact let you down when you finally get outside the narrow viewed window you obviously seem to be living in."
-----------------------------------------------
So is that an absolute? If it is, then I guess we welcome yet another hypocrite to the forums. Too funny!

AlisonNYC, Seems you are now a CrossFit trainer? You are actually teaching the certifications? Just curious.

John,

You seem to judge an awful lot. I said people like you are what embarasses me to say I'm a Christian, and that's what I meant. My faith is fine, being associated with people like you is what isn't fine. FYI..... The world is a sinking ship. Your not Moses,and this isn't Egypt. I don't have to know anything
God is leading you to.......your actions and words speak volumes as to what you think God has told you. Despite it being contrary to His words. I take back what I said... You not like a dictator.... As your more like cult leader, like keresh. Based on your words that is...

Vance

Grover L wrote:

"It is the same with Christianity. People don't like hearing they've violated God's law, the 10 Commandments. Today's flavor is #7, Thou shalt not commit adultery, which Jesus said that if you LUST after a woman you are guilty of this very thing."

Thanks for the post Grover. And while we are on the subject of the 10 Commandments, I would like to kindly remind people that they are violating God's law when they work on the Sabbath. This commandment, so often ignored, is just as important as all the others.

#269:
You assume God does not exist, and yet His proof is all around you. Because of this proof, I do not need to assume anything. God says it, I believe i, and yes, you are absolutely right , that settles it. so there! :)

#269:
You assume God does not exist, and yet His proof is all around you. Because of this proof, I do not need to assume anything. God says it, I believe it, and yes, you are absolutely right, that settles it. so there! :)

#352

I judge a lot? why how judgemental of you Vance. I welcome yet another hypocrite to the forums. Seems to be the way of things today. :)

#329 - Sure, but when people make intelligent, thought out comments, no one responds. John is one of the few opposed to to get a response.

I'm not against John's arguments in any way. I took a different approach. Nobody responded. Now, maybe they're not all that great, and maybe I'm not all that smart... or maybe no one has an intelligent response.

Finally: #334 vs. #335 - just read them one after the other - who is the man of courage, who is the mealy-mouthed weakling who's afraid to offend anyone?

"the people were viloating command #1, so he didnt have to be loving about getting them out." ARE YOU SERIOUS? That is about the dumbest Biblical interpretation I've ever heard. I'd bet you dollars to donuts that you go to some kind of mega-emerging church with lots of "practical advice", breathy worship choruses and small groups where people use the words "share," "authentic," and "struggle" a lot. Yeah? No?

oh yeah- on the Allison Vid- she is way cooler than yall will let her be- whats with the "slo mo on the Jambo" sequence???? Corn Pone Dude!!! I like her more and the use of her as a Crossfit Icon less as it goes on- the pic of her all wide eyed under a barbell basically tells her story in a nutshell. She's alright.

I did find the discussion of the games to be interesting. I like when the trainers roundtable like that- Id like to see at least a little of that on rest days. I know everyone is wild about liberty and stuff- Ive always thought freedom was just another word for nothing left to lose- thats worked pretty well so far.

John - listen man- Ill give you a hundred bucks to put on a bible outfit I got in my closet. you keep all negatives!

I do like Barry C's" honey Ill do the dishes" porno script- I think reading it improved my time on thrusters today.

Porn- constant varied movements across modal domains- for time- to increase work capacity!

I love it.

#352 vs. #356

I perceive a difference between the statements 'you seem to judge a lot' and 'I [you] judge a lot'. The first is mearly a statement of opinion. It has been misinterpretted as a statement of fact in the second phrase.

Allison_NYC, et al.

You guys filmed that on Jan 28th. I had asked folks to dedicate the workout to SSG Joe Rodriguez, a soldier of mine that was killed in Iraq on the same day in 2005. And there it was in the video when you were on your laptop - someone's response to my posting. Some guy that calls himself Big Sarge, some one that I have never met, telling me that they would give it their all for one of my guys.

Yeah, we are all friends.

The crazy thing is you NEVER know when that reminder of the sacrifice someone makes to protect our freedoms is going to pop up - and here we are aguing about porn.

Take care
Max

Wow!! You guys have really hammered John when he speaks him mind. Funny how sensitive people can be when the table is turned.

#191 Thank for remembering Police week and what the heck is a Catahoula Leopard?

Re: the porn link. I have two young daughters who under my supervision visit the main site and the kid site. Not anymore. I have already got asked about it.

I had already cut back on viewing the site. Mainly because Xfit has become the anti-globo gym’s gym. The video of Allison just solidifies my views. They have lost their focus. Link bad for business.

I do not believe Coach or the site supports the porn industry. The Porn Industry victimizes people and causes dysfunction.

#329

Welcome aboard friend. I respect your approach, and don't think it was not noticed.

One man hammers away, another waters, and yet another reaps the fruit. Such is the way of our Father.

Luke 12:51-52
"Do you suppose that I (Jesus) came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. -Speaking of the war between those who would believe in Him and those who would not.

"Your arguement was going great, until you decided to correct someone on there spelling. so gay dude. "

Comment #336 - Posted by: lame at May 17, 2008 5:42 PM

now we have moved on to gay bashing?
oh-and there is a NEW sterotype I was not aware of-(and I live in new york city)-- only gay people are concerned with spelling?

seriously number 336 you ARE lame. insert a racial epithet for "gay" and stop and think whether you would have pressed the post button? no? then you should not have put the term "gay" in either.

perhaps we need to remind people that the "rest day" does not mean people should "rest" their brains=or at least the filters that edit their ignorance.
Maybe they should give their typepads a rest.

John,

Thank you for supporting my point.

But you are wrong about me. I do not assume that your god does not exist. I did a lot of reading, thinking, and soul searching over the past 15 years to reach my current belief in that regard. There may indeed be a god (or many). Neither science or religion has adequately explained to me where we all came from. However, I do believe that if we were created by a god, it was not the god of my father (he's a southern baptist), nor was it your god or that of anyone else with whom I have discussed the topic at hand.

If I happen to be wrong, that is OK with me. The god I learned about in Sunday school is a jerk, and I refuse to worship him even if he did make me. If I meet him one day, he'll just have to forgive me for using the brain he gave me... or send me to hell (which I also do not believe in).

Question your faith. If the things you believe in are true, they can stand up to the scrutiny.

"Well, we must cultivate our garden."

So if you don't like porn, don't look at it.

And if you don't associate with people who encourage free thought by using porn as a point for discussion, that's your prerogative too.

Certainly the people whose company you leave won't really miss you, and certainly you won't miss them.

I appreciate that CF posts thought-provoking articles, this one in particular.

A lot of CFers are involved in the protection of our freedoms, the foremost being the free speech that ensures our Liberty.

Thank you for defending our right to irritate whoever we want through speech.

God Bless America.

#364

Now there is an infidel I can respect, one who has heard the truth, contemplated it, but chooses not to believe it. I would even let you buy me Guinness.

And it really does not matter if you or I are wrong. It is not about you or me. Is it? It is about the freedom one holds as his own. I see being separated from a life of sin as true freedom. But to those who are enjoying their sin filled life, they see my way as bondage.

John 3:18-21:
"He who believes in Him (Jesus) is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

#361 Hoover agent. Do you where a dress like Hoover did? Just a question. A Catahoula Leopard Dog is the coolest dog ever. They can climb trees.

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/catahoula-leopard.html

John: hypocrite, you oviously dont understand the meaning!

But then again I wouldn't expect you too...there are no lessons of a dictionary in the bible.

It seems that you are believing you are reaching people with "The Word of God" here.

Sir, you are completely wrong!

Make that Obviously!

Anyone watch Ninja Warrior on TV? It is a Japanese reality show where athletes compete on some really tough obstacle courses. It's got some of that silly Japanese game show aura about it, but the physical performance of the athletes is incredible. Crossfit would be great training for it. Here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJmCem8qbTE

I am separated from a life of sin. I don't believe in the concept.

Gotta say, I am surprised to see so many long posts on today's subject matter. Looks like just about everything that could be said, has been.

Cool video. Very cinematic with the boxes. It would be cool to see some more features of CF athletes.

#364 writes: "Question your faith. If the things you believe in are true, they can stand up to the scrutiny."
-------------------------------------------------
My faith is not in a question, but in a person. I do not need to question that person anymore then I need to question a pilots ability to fly the next time I travel.

My faith is a gift from God. I may however ask the question of why He chose to reveal Himself to me in the way that He did. :)

#365

I can do "better" than being offended that someone referred to something --that is negative-- as Gay?

I certainly hope I would not ever have to do better.

I guess by analogy that means I should not be offended if someone refers to someone who is cheap as a "jew"? Or is there some loophole in your lexicon just for the term "gay"?

Unfotunately John, there are people who never fail to disappoint.
And there will always be people who will never fail to be offended.
Whether you think it is "worthy" of offense or not.

And here we return to the issue of free speech.

Thank goodness for Barry Cooper, bingo and Hari. Many other people need to learn how to discuss issues sans hyperbole. There are some really great, cogent points brought up in their posts.

I have six older brothers - I learned growing up that if I wanted them to shut up and stop bothering me, I ignored them. I'm not referring to anyone specifically - neither side of this discussion has a corner on the logorrhea market today.

BTW - the points about the post causing issues for affiliates are valid. I would be willing to bet that there was an unintended oversight of considering the potential business consequences of the link .

p.s. Those of you quoting Christ today, I would really appreciate it if you would try to sound a little more like him in your tone. (John Seiler - I appreciated your post.)

#374 wrote: "I am separated from a life of sin. I don't believe in the concept."
------------------------------------------------
So I guess by your logic it would be safe to walk into a fully engulfed hose fire because you not believe in the concept of heat, and its effect on your physical health. Your logic is as futile as sticking your head in the sand when you are scared.

#372

"suites"?

#365 wrote: "I guess by analogy that means I should not be offended if someone refers to someone who is cheap as a "Jew"? Or is there some loophole in your lexicon just for the term "gay?"
--------------------------------------------------

-People do not chose to be Jewish, or white, or black in skin color. But choosing to have sex with a member of the same sex is a matter of choice, and it is a perverted act.

and John- someone who chooses to be an ignoramous is exaclty that.
an ignoramous.

and guess what?? there are some people that in fact do choose to be jewish. but that is beside the point.

Lame-
that is bc allwhite new yorkers always aim to please!
anytime :)

by the way-does you email have a skin color filter that tells you who from new york posting is white and who is not?

or is it just the fixation with spelling and politically correct statements that gives the NY liberals away?

we better learn a new code...:0

AllisonNYC has a potty mouth. I hope my daughter never talks like that.

Personally, I clicked on the porn link and was disapointed that there wasn't any porn :(

Where are you guys getting this 'questionable content'? Seriously, could someone send me the link? I think I've seen more 'questionable content' watching the exercise demos.

I'm all for morals but not at the expense of reason (or civility). Rose-colored glasses are great until they hinder your ability to drive.

B

John- are you a member of Westboro Baptist? If not, you should be. Your theologies align. If God hates porn, he probably hates gays too, right?

So next rest day will there be a link to a Nazi skinhead website, so we can consider their freedom of expression, too? Hey, why not NAMBLA after that?

Test

#67 I am glad that you will keep you children away from anything that is thought provoking or against the grain. I am glad you will raise your children in a bubble devoid of sex, violence and human rights. That is a great model for your kids and those around you. When i watched the video i saw a performance art piece and a social commentary. I watched one group's feelings of persecution played out on a stage for the AVA Awards. Bc they did it with naked human figures it considered porn. Grow up.
Crossfit is about breaking societies norms. Before Crossfit if you wanted to be in shape you went for a long slow run and an hr and half of weights combing free weights and machines in a rep range of 3 sets of 10 reps.
Now we crush ourselves on workouts with that can be in done in a few minutes and can mess you up for a few days.
Open you mind and expand your horizons.

Dean at May rights,

"I am also disappointed in the pornography post. I recently started my 10 year old son on CrossFit kids. This is not the kind of material I want my son exposed to.

My business partner and I are about to open two gyms in our home town and CrossFit is going to be a major part of our operation. We will be offering CrossFit to kids. What am I supposed to tell the parents of my students when they go to the CrossFit web site and there's pornographic material staring them in the face? I do not want to answer those kinds of questions.

My business partner recently received his level 1 certification and we just sent in the paper work for an affiliation. It would be very disappointing if we had to disassociate ourselves from CrossFit. I'm not going to make any rash judgments based on one incident, but if CrossFit is going to move in this direction we will have to reevaluate our association with them.

There are numerous sites on the web where porn can be viewed. I truly hope CrossFit will never again be one of them."
Comment #67 - Posted by: Dean at May 16, 2008 10:35 PM

J. Kru et. all-- My response is up the page at #324. Got held up probably due to links I attached.. all WFS

When did the Crossfit post become a religious form?
I thought Crossfit was it's own religion?
Drink the Kool-aid.

Boys and Girls this is why I stick to posting about economics. Although this is largely an issue of liberty an economics.

Moral issues are to fraught with loonies with more passion than brains (something that ironically helps make a good porn star & populist).

Barry pretty well summed it up in post 13. Everything was a vote for freedom or a vote for tyranny because that is the way they like it.

If we outlaw porn, then the terrorists win!

John, I see neither your way nor the hedonists' way as bondage so long as the way is freely chosen. What I see as bondage are the guns of jackbooted government thugs forcing you to live one way or the other.

#232, John, said " I can be a hammer in the hand of God as well. If you can not take the pain, don’t expect the gain. "

How presumptuous of you, sir. Who are you to claim you know the will of god?

Please check your hubris before you post.

#391 wrote: "How presumptuous of you, sir. Who are you to claim you know the will of god?"

-I do not presume, or claim. I know, and proclaim the word of God. I need not give a defense to His truth. His word speaks for itself.

#390 wrote:"What I see as bondage are the guns of jackbooted government thugs forcing you to live one way or the other."

-What you see my friend is only what you desire to see. God's truth is not discerned with eyes that have been shut closed by the damning effects of sin!

#388: wrote:"When did the Crossfit post become a religious form?"

-God needs no man's permission to make His words known, and there is no place that He is excluded from.

#379 wrote: "and guess what? there are some people that in fact do choose to be Jewish. but that is beside the point."

-Really? How does one chose which race they are? Or did you mean faith, as in practicing Judaism?

My personal view on this whole porn thing, or any civil liberties issue is this: If what you do doesn't interfere with another person's pursuit of life/liberty/happiness then it's none of anyone's business but the people involved and everyone outside the situation should keep their nose out of it.

That said, I believe that porn, like anything else in the the universe, has good and bad in it, and that is largely determined by one's perspective.

AllisonNYC- Great video. You are one cool chick man, I agree with everything you said, including your use of expletives, this community rocks!

#393:

Believing that porn has good and bad in it, is about as stupid as one can get. That would be the same as believing there is good and bad in rape (because using your analogy this too exists in the universe).

And porn does interfere with another persons happiness, life, and liberty. Just because you do not immediately see the damaging effects it has on a person, and ultimately a nation, does not mean it is OK.

The porn industry should be listed as an organized crime cartel and rounded up.

John...buddy...whether you are willing to admit it or not...you have a serious God complex going on that disturbs me very much.

#300 Marisela
While I enjoyed and agree with your post, if you are going to correct someone on their spelling and punctuation, you should probably capitalize correctly.

John
I came into this discussion late and have two questions for you. Have you slept yet? Do you have nothing better to do on a weekend than stare at your computer? Time to stand up and stretch...now go get a life. Time for me to do the WOD.

OK John, you have convinced me with your skillful use of the word of God. I now understand that links to porn are evil and I'm leaving Crossfit to join your new ChristFit organization unless the Glassmans cave to your quite reasonable demands.

I'm sure they will cave though, they seem a bit soft on fundamentalism in general, and I'm sure they don't want to lose a righteous Christian guy like you with the power to turn 7000 of your mindless followers away from their failing business model.

Obviously Crossfit is a sinking ship, and desperately throwing out any ballast that might drag them under. All this emphasis on cursing and sex and beauty and workouts named after women and (GOD FORBID) defending pornographers can only mean one thing: they are desperate and have hired a slick marketing agency to spruce up the membership numbers before selling out to Curves or Bally's or 24-Hour Fitness.

But don't tell hundreds (or is it thousands?) of new affiliates and members that are popping up every day or they might decide to forgo paying their affiliate fees and instead overwhelm our brand new cult's ability to assimilate them once they realize that the founders of Crossfit actually believe in thinking for yourself rather than blindly following established dogma in other areas of life besides just fitness. Oh, wait, they already knew that.

But anyway, can I please join your fast-growing cult of Christian Fitness where the the rules of logic, persuasion, and civil discourse do not apply since you obviously know God's will intimately and can just tell me what it is so I don't have to think or anything.

I'd like to get in on the ground floor now so I can be a Certified ChristFit Trainer and open my own ChristFit affiliate. My current cult also seems to be a sinking ship, the feds are persecuting us for having a few too many pregnant teenage wives even though our leaders have clearly explained that it is GOD's will that we do this, with quotes from the book of Mormon and everything. The damn secular government just doesn't get it! It is clearly stated in our written record of God's will that our founder found buried in the woods somewhere that men are supposed to take lots of wives and age is irrelevant.

By the way, if anyone wants to buy a boatload of porn or some books on logic, rational discourse, making friends and influencing people, evolutionary biology, or a dictionary, email me directly as I won't be needing any of it anymore.

Or perhaps we could work out a trade for a stack of bibles? But they have to be John's version of the bible, not any of those other cheap imitations or unauthorized translations.

Oh, I was working on a slogan too...what do you think about:

ChristFit - Porn-Free Elite Fitness

I think it has a nice ring to it.

Oh, and one other change that we should incorporate immediately: no more workouts named after hot women. All ChristFit workouts will be named after prophets, apostles, saints, popes, books of the bible, and TV evangelists. Of course none of them can be females or we'd have the temptation to think about "doing" St. Theresa and that would obviously cause a drop in attendance that day, along with the temptation for innappropriate comments on the message board (which of course we would censor, but still, better safe than sorry.)

And of course, we'd have to ban Lululemons and anyone who takes their shirt off during a workout will have to do Fran (which will of course be known as St. Francis) wearing a Hairshirt, full firefighter gear (or Hockey gear, if available) a burka, and a 20 lb crucifix.

See you in church!

Allen

Dear John,

I love your posts! Please don't leave CrossFit. I enjoy the emotional roller coaster I experience every time I read one of your posts. It goes from anger at your complete intolerance, to confusion over clear and obvious lack of logic, to sadness for the human race as a whole. Then laughter ensues as I realize it doesn't really matter because no one is taking your posts seriously.

Here's a good illogical quote from you to "John also":
"You say you are an Atheist. But you are a liar. If you truly did not believe in a God, then you would not have known there was a God not to believe in."

So let me ask you: do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) that is everywhere and yet undetectable all of the time? Do you believe in fairies? How about unicorns? Using your logic, if you don't believe in the above, then you would not know that they exist in order to not believe in them. (What???)

Breaking this down, I guess your "proof" that "John also" cannot be an atheist is that anything anyone could ever possibly imagine in their minds must absolutely exist, because otherwise we would not be able to imagine it. And now I feel the emotion of sadness for humanity...okay it's back to laughter. Phew!

Again, thank you for the posts. This discussion, albeit completely unproductive and not intellectually stimulating, is nonetheless entertaining...and therefore quite fitting for a rest day. I suggest the next rest day you can go play with your unicorns in fairyland while God battles with the FSM for control of heaven.

Coach once said in a video seminar clip, "I'm a fitness whore, I just want results."

If indeed we are truly "fitness whores" whose objective is to only increase a healthy lifestyle amongst persons seeking to improve their fitness, then today's article, amongst dozens of others, appear to have little place on a Rest Day discussion board, if we are truly "fitness whores who just want results." I think Rest Day is currently seeking results AND furthering an agenda. What I want are the fitness adaptations CF and CF-friendly workouts deliver.

Today is not the first day someone who I tried to turn onto CF asked me what porn/politics was doing on the site. My response as typified by most things, "Take what you like and leave the rest." However, many people just leave and do not come back, thus again we are not fitness whores, bu we are "wanna be fitness whores" who are advancing an agenda beyond fitness. You can not have it both ways Coach.

To all those that are whining about Allison's use of colorful language on the video... have you watched many lecture clips from Coach? He's all over the place with it... and his videos have been on the site for quite some time.

Many people (many women) have been featured in video clips and articles. Why should Allison be any different? I never heard any complaints about Greg A, Josh E or Eva T. There are any number of reasons they haven’t been featured lately.

So CF wants to follow one (average) person's journey through CrossFit. Our community is about average people doing above average things. Have you taken the time to get to know her and find out what she's all about?

I've taken from the videos that 1) she works her butt off, 2) she seems like a fun person to be around, & 3) hopes to continue her advancement, both personally (performance) and professionally (certs & seminars)

Keep up the great work Allison

To all those that are whining about Allison's use of colorful language on the video... have you watched many lecture clips from Coach? He's all over the place with it... and his videos have been on the site for quite some time.

Many people (many women) have been featured in video clips and articles. Why should Allison be any different? I never heard any complaints about Greg A, Josh E or Eva T. There are any number of reasons they haven’t been featured lately.

So CF wants to follow one (average) person's journey through CrossFit. Our community is about average people doing above average things. Have you taken the time to get to know her and find out what she's all about?

I've taken from the videos that 1) she works her butt off, 2) she seems like a fun person to be around, & 3) hopes to continue her advancement, both personally (performance) and professionally (certs & seminars)

Keep up the great work Allison

Sorry for the double post. Damn internet Nomes.

I LOVE Comment #399. THANK YOU!!!

Barry nailed it in post #13, by the way. How did we get 383 posts farther along?

(Yeah I have 2 of those. Sue me. :P)

The straw man has found eternal life as a fundamentalist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

So now John calls Jews a "race"... very telling.

I know a lot of this discussion has simply been about people who like to argue. That's fine. It was fun for a while. I just hope the administrators of the site realize what a tough spot they put parents and business owners in when they put up these kinds of links. I for one am ready to move on. I don't expect an apology and, like myself, I don't expect many people will leave CrossFit over this. But if these postings become the norm, I hope the administrators know they will leave many of us with no choice. Good luck to all on todays WOD.

#324

OK, found it -

>>>They say it is about the journey not the destination.

Wha'd you go to the University of Aerosmith? :)

>>> Half-cocked you demand that CrossFit change...for you. Then you say you will leave. Fortunately, this has nothing to do with you nor sexuality. yet, somehow you have laid it out as if it does. That is the problem. People, CF'ers, and affiliates want from CrossFit to mold itself to their world-view.

I don't know why you keep saying this, because I didn't say I would leave. I said I would take the benefits of Crossfit, but would cease to advocate for Crossfit either by word of mouth, t-shirt space, or webpage. I'm assuming you understood being "shown the door" was a virtual door - the "idoor." It's a metaphor.

This has nothing to do with sexuality? Nothing to do with porn? Are you SERIOUS??? So what, you think you have some magical insight? You've seen through the smoke to the real issues - I want to control Crossfit and make Coach see my POV?

You've got to be kidding me. All I can say is have one of your brothers check your high-altitude gear, because you must not be getting enough oxygen.

>>>>Your immediate skiddishness of the subject matter and attempt to link it to CF Kids follows the standard ploy.

It's not a ploy. It's a pretty important issue. Does Crossfit reach out to parents and their kids? Does it link to pro-porn sites? ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. DRAW THE CONNECTION. NOT TOO HARD.

Here's what I think: I think many of the CF women (Allison excluded) are excellent role models for girls. I think CF is especially good for teenage girls, who have body issues regularly. (I'm a high school teacher and I have seen it often.) I think that men who look at porn subtly and sometimes overtly encourages real-life females to become the women of their fake fantasy world, and I think that most teenage girls - and most women - seek to please men in the way men want to be pleased. Girls who grow up around men who appreciate beauty, accomplishment, hard work and character grow up to be beautiful, accomplished, hard working women of good character. Girls who grow up around porn, and men who like it, emulate porn stars, (and their little cousins, pop stars).

Up until recently, I have loved CF for the way women were respected for their beauty, accomplishment, hard work and character. Women have been respected and intelligent and contributing members no less than men. I have recommended CF to teenage girls. I have recommended it to friends. And now I'm ashamed, because CF has Jumped the Shark. It has been a slow slide, but CF seems to currently value vapid comments, gushing enthusiasism, and a false beauty with it's roots in sexual advances, not true beauty.

I'll still use the research, the workout ideas, the theories. But no one is going to the website on my advice anymore. And while I don't expect that CF will really care that they won't get another $20 for a Christmas T-shirt, my principle is that I don't want to support an organization with so little discernment.

>>>>As for me and my brothers, we don't need to watch Fight Club or Jarhead.

But you have and you do. And you quote it to one another. Often.

Joey, I've read your post 5 times now, and I still can't find your point as it relates to mine. What exactly do you think the issue is? That I want to make Crossfit like me? That I shouldn't be critical? Isn't that what you and your brothers do? Fight injustice? Isn't your mission to find things that are going wrong and change them? To stop bad things from happening? That's what I'm doing.

Here's a tip: your work is good work. You do good things for our country. But it has become your idol, and you now think that because you're righteous in one area, you can ignore immorality in others. I'm guessing you're pretty conservative in your politics, but guess what? You're just like a liberal. Ignore some issues and trumpet others. Liberals will go on about the beauty of sodomite marriage and the rights to murder infants in the womb, but damn it all if kids are going to smoke!

Your righteousness in your military life does not compensate for your wickedness with regards to pornography.

It's funny to see how stupid people are when they aren't working out.

Rest Day posts are a pretty good indication of what Crossfitters think about outside of the workout.

Oh, and the whole porn thing...WTF!? I don't care about the laws on porn (I'm not a pornographer), but why the hell does Crossfit care and why?
This was dissapointing.

One more thing. I'm still tired of seeing the Crossfit reality series of Allison. Who CARES?
"Die Hard"...please. More like "vain".

#398 allen

seriously funny stuff. great post. loved it.

Allen #398. I enjoyed that very much too. Thanks!

Have posted once in two years. CCTJoey is correct -- thin the herd.

Remember DrSquat's website from 10-12 years ago? I believe over opinionated "John's" and instant experts helped kill it. One can only handle so much whining.

Coach, Lauren, et. al. keep on keeping on.

I'll quote Pacino from Devil's Advocate (great movie):
"free will, it's a b*tch"

#409
"Oh, and the whole porn thing...WTF!? I don't care about the laws on porn (I'm not a pornographer), but why the hell does Crossfit care and why?
This was dissapointing"

When they came for the Communists, I said nothing as I wasn't a Communist.
When they came for the Trade Unionists I said nothing, I was not a unionist.
When they came for the Jews I said nothing, I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak for me.
I thinnk I just basterdized Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Lutheran pastor?

I don't much care for the porn link, but its a conversation piece. An argument starter. I don't know what branch of the service your in Jon, where you train to put away porn-viewers/terrorists? You must be alot of fun to work with on a long deployment.

The issue is not porn, its something that you don't like being freely available beause your right to happiness and self expression is not exactly yours. "Do I even know God." Thats pretty damned self-righteous. Whose god? Your god, my god, god(S). Your basing all of this off of God. No one has ever offered scientific proof of him, but you having found a code and a lifestyle to your liking demand that we follow suit.

The very freedom you claim to defend doesn't exist in your narrow minded view. You want me to give up my rights because your imaginary friend says so? People like you are the reason for sepration of Church and state.

Seriously, you are why we have these laws. So that Reverand Wright, or Falwell cannot leverage his imaginary friends power against those that they don't agree with. At first I didn't think that link was all that valuable. Now I get it. There are alot of people out there who in an instant would force me by law to believe in a Supreme being, and that I would have to do what is supposed to be my freedom as gods child to decide; by compulsion.

The funny thing is, it may not be your religion that is the power, maybe diminitude under a Muslim Caliph would be more to some other majoritys liking?

I'm sad to see this guy go, only because his viewpoint has some validity. I don't want my kids looking at porn. But I don't want John telling them what they can't read or view when they are old enough to make "their own decision."

The founding fathers we're not a one-size fits-all religous zealots. Some we're deeply faithful, some paid lip-service and some didn't care at all. Thats why we are where we are today, and people the world over come here to join the team. John I'm truly sad to see you go, to your religous compound where impure thoughts are stopped by your magic underwear, or your Torah. Free speech sucks.

Petey

I haven't posted in a while...

1) I don't like porn, therefore, I don't watch it. Rather easily avoidable. At the same time, I don't want the gov't taking away that "freedom" to watch it because, well, what's next? Thats the same argument many have it seems. These restrictions start out benign enough, but then you're dealing with another socialist situation.

2) I did not find the dancing offensive. As a dancer, I've seen more provocative stuff in the theaters. I actually was disappointed in that it was poorly lit, poorly costumed, and so busy on stage that rather than being "artistic" it was a big mess.

Did Murph.
54:59 new PR
Want to crack 45 some day

Really, all this arguing comes about because John and people like him live in a cocoon. I know, I was living in that same religious cocoon when I lived in Canada. But you know what? Travelling the world and living outside of North America made me see that other parts of the world have a very different point of view on a varied of topics, including religion, food, love, social interaction and yes, even art and how the media portrays it. John, really, you need to get outside your conservative bubble and learn to relax. There was nothing wrong with yesterday's post and if you do think there was something wrong, you should really get out more and stop being so ingnorant...

Thanks for so many eloquent posts. Most of you have open minds but some do not. Porn is not a bad thing nor is it evil. Its what you do with it. It does not harm anyone. The internet does not need to be policed. Porn does not destroy marriages like some claim. It is not addictive. The link is harmless. This is still a kid and work safe site but use a little judgment. We are all gods in some respect. We have gained new members today and our work was carried out by many of you. It was truly a rest day for us. We are in your service-

My name is Gerasene

IMHO: This has been *THE BEST* discussion topic in a long time--My favorite, at least.

What better than to eat our own cooking?

ditto #399's comment/quote.

Freedom of thought and speech can be messy, especially when I don't agree. But that's what we're about, right? Can we practice it without being hypocrites, or damning or killing each other? That's the game as far as I'm concerned.

CrossFit and U.S. Constitution: Get Some!

23:48 Situps anchored. 45deg back ext machine

Hi Guys. Obviously I'm in hiding so I don't post on the internet much these days. But I had to chime in.

The United States is allowing too much immorality to go on. The fact that you allow women's faces to be visible, let alone other parts of their bodies, is pornographic. Talk about provoking lust. As my friend John said in Post #50, those who support porn are worse than terrorists and murderers! Totally agree dude. God used me as the hammer on 9/11 and he will do it again.

Keep up the faith brother! In the long run, God's will be done, we will succeed in cleansing evil from the world and unite under a moral government that does not allow these perversions!

God doesn't "hate" anything or anyone. Why do we insist on creating God in our image--angry and judgmental--knowing full well that we were created in his?

Seriously, I think all the smart people have already left, but in any event:

#414 Pete-

Several times you refer to God as someone's "imaginary friend", a deeply offensive statement to many millions of religious people. You are thus guilty of the same self-righteousness which you accuse "John" of possessing. Hence you are a hypocrite.

Additionally, please check your last paragraph where you refer to "magic underwear or your Torah". I'm curious as to what kind of crack you are smoking which enables you to make such a rediculously far-fetched comparison.

It is impossible to respect your position when you make such statements.

-Joshua

Thank you, CrossFit.com, for keeping us engaged not only physically but mentally as well. You have posted many articles reflecting a respectable number of viewpoints. Interesting how pornography seems to have so many people upset. It's apparent they are the ones who need to be engaged mentally a little more than the rest of us.

Was gone yesterday and missed this frenzy!

I'd just like to say I thought the article was fine, occasionally the diction gave off a little too much of the feeling, "we're righteous and the government is evil", but the points are fine.

I still find it amazing that so much of the US has problems dealing with issues of sexuality. Granted I am a product of being raised in California in the last 20 years... but a general fear of anything sexual is present in a good percentage of the population, most likely due to insecurities about their own sexual experiences and what is 'socially' acceptable.

For the most part, people are sheep and will follow the trends of society... And society is slowing becoming more liberal about issues such as this. My guess is that in one-hundred years it will be a joke that they ever considered laws against porn.

#395 John

I said in my statement that the good and bad in anything is a matter of one's perspective. Rape, from the victim's perspective, is bad. The rapist obviously finds something worthwhile in it. I would personally kill anyone who tried to rape my wife, and take pleasure in doing so. Rape is a crime of aggression and seeking control over another--clearly an interference with the life, liberty and happiness of another.

Your perspective on pornography is obviously based in your religious faith. You must realize that not everyone shares your faith. This does not make them wrong or stupid, just different from you. You probably will disagree with me on that last statement, as most devoutly religious people do. You think you are right from your perspective, just as the Muslim, the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Ba'hai, the Atheist and all other people of faith do.

My point is that you have the right to believe and see the world from your point of view. This right exists independent of the endorsement of anyone else.

You do NOT have the right the force your view of the world on anyone else and say that they must think and act as you wish- unless they threaten your life, liberty or pursuit of happiness.

Prohibition of a thing increases the likelihood that people will seek it because it is forbidden. Always has, always will.

Wow. Man, am I glad I was busy this weekend. I might have actually fallen for John, but by the end, I see that others took up the cause.

Bingo - thanks for the props, brother. Looking forward to seeing you and Paul for the Games. I will, of course, keep my porn to myself on my side of the room.

Barry - well said. Most of what came after yours lacked the requisite reasoning to be seriously considered.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - they don't teach the Classics enough in school and they should also teach logic. (John, this is specifically directed at you - you're reasoning is simply non-existent and throwing biblical passages at people rather than addressing their points is the sign of a weak mind. God gave us the faculty to reason for, wait for it, a reason. Think why that is.)

You and Milton, baby, "justifying the ways of God to man." Awesome. Do you get the reference?

Cool video!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2609149243719622443

Test

#426 - Where do you get the idea that life, liberty and happiness are to be valued and defended?

sorry, i could have written something more lengthy and profound but my arms are sore from parkour and my palms hairy from...well, never mind

RLTW!!!
matt (aka Lil B)

#341 Kim - I agree. If you watch the video without a porn aversion clouding your mind you do notice that the dancers, especially the first one, have great bodies. They could have gotten them from CrossFit or a CF like regimen. Or, they look like Cirque de Soleil dancers - they're job keeps them in great shape. Like you, I think the "porn" word stopped most people from watching the video with a critical CrossFit eye.

#430

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are what I value. Look at nature, everything tries to live and avoids restraint (at least until it is beaten down and no longer remembers or cares for its liberty.

J.Kru - from the founding documents of our nation, I would imagine.

You (or maybe not, I gather you are defending John's view) and John have missed the point totally in viewing porn (and the simple posting of the selected clip) as a religious/moral affront rather than as a Constitutional/governmental/speech issue.

John's position is that the Glassmans cannot even have the conversation - it is malum in se and cannot even be discussed in the abstract. That sounds awfully Victorian and (IMO) leads to the suppression of such issues, not the elimination of them. e.g. Evidence suggests that child abuse, rape, and sexual exploitation existed before the 20th century and even the creation of the U.S. Discussion of such matters, however, was absolutely taboo. We now can discuss these subjects and while some view this as making them more prevalent, I suspect that it is more that we have now brought out into the light that which always existed AND found better ways to deal with it because of that discussion.

John and his supporters want to burn books, I would warrant, because of the "filth" contained therein. I might agree with him about the content being of little redeeming value, but I can't go the distance and say that we should ban "filth" - and when 9 pretty smart people sat in a room, the best Pottter Stewart could come up with is "I'll know it when I see it." That doesn't get it.

Justice Brennam later admitted that "Our experience since Roth requires us not only to abandon the effort to pick out obscene materials on a case-by-case basis, but also to reconsider a fundamental postulate of Roth: that there exists a definable class of sexually oriented expression that may be suppressed by the Federal and State Governments. Assuming that such a class of expression does in fact exist, I am forced to conclude that the concept of 'obscenity' cannot be defined with sufficient specificity and clarity to provide fair notice to persons who create and distribute sexually oriented materials, to prevent substantial erosion of protected speech as a byproduct of the attempt to suppress unprotected speech, and to avoid very costly institutional harms." Paris Adult Theatre I v. Slaton, 413 U.S. 49, 103 (1973). He was in the minority for that one, however.

#433 - Joe, just because you value something or see it in nature doesn't mean that everybody has to do what you value or observe. That's called the "naturalistic fallacy." I quote from John Frame:

"One cannot deduce 'ought' from 'is'. That is to say, from premises about what is, about factual observations, you cannot deduce conclusions about what you ought to do. For example, you cannot reason from “Ice cream tastes good” to “you ought to eat ice cream,” or even from “immunizations prevent disease” to “you ought to be immunized.” ... facts of nature do not carry with them moral obligations.

Facts can be learned through observation and scientific method. But moral obligations cannot be seen and heard. They cannot be observed. No scientific experiment can identify them. You can see a thief walk into a bank and rob it. When you see that, you say, “that was wrong.” But you don’t actually see the wrongness of it. So, although you may believe strongly that what the thief did was wrong, you cannot deduce the wrongness of his action from a mere description of the visible events.

What you're doing, Joe, is forcing your view of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" onto John, while telling him that he does "NOT have the right the force your view of the world on anyone else and say that they must think and act as you wish."

What makes your l.l.happy worldview so much better than John's? How can you possibly claim that "good and bad is a matter of perspective," and then tell John that he is "bad" for forcing his views on people? Apparently to John, forcing his views is a good thing? What are you going to stand on to tell him he's wrong?

The solution can only be found in a Creator God, who has control of the world, authority to control it, and a presence in the world. Apart from that, it's just your perspective, and you're contradicting yourself if you try to impose values on others.

#434 - My perspective is that the government should have nothing to do with restraining speech whatsoever, and that includes porn.

But my point is that Crossfit HQ shows incredible disrespect to the men and especially the women of the CF community by linking to a webpage about pornography. To this moment, I'm not sure if they were highlighting the video or the Buttman article.

I'm not saying it should be illegal, I'm saying it is immoral, and ought to be avoided. I'm also saying that I'm disappointed with what Crossfit has become(?)/is becoming. To me, it represented families and strong values. I love the videos of strong people working hard, kids getting great exercise, and Annie's new baby. To suddenly feature vapid bra-interviews with Allison and link to porn sites tells me that CF turned a corner.

#436

CrossFit has not turned a corner. The root of your disfavor is that CrossFit and many on the board including myself are libertarians of sorts that believe in freedom on all levels. The "moralists" crowd likes to corrupt freedom and limit it to what they deem appropriate as opposed to a true defender of liberty who can take the good with the bad. This is also a large split in the political world these days as you have a conservatism that pushes for freedom and limited government and a conservatism that wants morality on their terms and an overly intrusive federal government.

Do as you may as long as it doesn't violate my liberty!!

That picture reminds me of an orbits gum commercial! lol

Re: #437 -
There is also a large split among people who believe strongly in personal liberty and an underly intrusive federal government:

a: those who think that personal freedom should be exercised responsibly and intelligently, with self-administered restraint and NOT government enforcement. (Me).

b: those who think that personal freedom should be used as an excuse for hedonism and self-centered expression. These people usually can't understand (a)'s distinction between personal restraint and government enforcement. (You.)

And as I've said above in #435 (and, as I predict, no one will be able to respond to), EVERYONE is a "moralist" who likes to "limit what they deem appropriate." You're no different, you just have a different source, be it your intuition, the Constitution, or a collective agreement.

It's like trying to prove that the scientific method works. Eventually you just end up in a self-referential circle of proof.

OK, I know my post wasn't just held, it was deleted. This has happened before as well, not the first time. What about my freedom of speech? There was not a single naughty word - I swear it. I did use the word idiot, but I'm just a vessel relaying the message. Yes, I did refer to a normal sexual function, but that has already been referenced in this thread.

Help, help, I'm being repressed.

Is CF going downhill? Well, I don't mind the racy topics personally, although some of the content gets annoying. It gets to be like the E-Channel w/ Beavis & Buthead commemtary overdubbed. But professionally, it's tough to refer the General & Sergeants Major to CF with some of the lamer content (including umm ... non-professional music lyrics).

J. Kru,

I will agree that I should have qualified my statement with the phrase "I believe" which is what this, ultimately, is about. However, you will note that my statement was in response to an unprovoked attack on another statement of that belief. Thus, the fact that these are statements of belief has already been established.

Facts of nature do not carry with them moral obligations, granted, though I see them as no less valid a basis for guiding moral judgements.

However, your final statement "The solution can only be found in a Creator God, who has control of the world, authority to control it, and a presence in the world. Apart from that, it's just your perspective, and you're contradicting yourself if you try to impose values on others." I find interesting.

What factual basis do you have for the premise that "The solution can only be found in a Creator God, who has control of the world, authority to control it, and a presence in the world"? Can you provide any examples where this solution has occurred? What are the facts here?

Can we keep this site more family-friendly and not promote porn? How can we have the Crossfit for Kids tab on the main page and yet promote porn right beside it? I'm very disappointed. Porn ruins lives and marraiges. I do not consider it to be part of a healthy lifestyle. I'd like to get my 3 boys on board with Crossfit in a couple of years, but now struggle with whether or not this site is clean enough for them.

#441 -

Hi Joe.

Facts can be very helpful, but on their own, they don't tell us anything. Should we me monogomous or polygamous? Depends if you look at toucans or dogs. Should we kill anyone who gets near us? Red ants do. Should we kill our young, like lions, or mourn their death, like elephants?

Furthermore, they don't have any kind of ethical force. You might see them as a valid base for guiding moral decisions, but what gives you the right to impose your moral decisions on other people, even if it's the value of "life liberty and happiness." Is it because there was a "unprovoked attack?" What makes an unprovoked attack so bad?

In other words: you said that "Rape is a crime of aggression and seeking control over another," and implied it was wrong because it is "clearly an interference with the life, liberty and happiness of another." But you can't defend the notion of l.l.h. It's just something you like. For you suggest that you would kill someone because they violated your personally held views is just you imposing your views on other people.

Now, I agree with your view, but I'm saying that you need to realize your l.l.h. view is actually a religious belief. You hold it without question. You have evidence but no proof. You're willing to kill or even die for it. You expect it of others.

So don't act indignant when John speaks about his porn out of his religious faith. You and he are doing the same thing in life. You use l.l.h. and he uses the Bible.

As for the solution: As a Christian, I do have a valid base to say that "rape is evil" whereas you don't. God's law, the Bible, tells us that God's heart is against rape. It also tells us what sex is about, and shows that healthy sex is the opposite of rape. I can also say that since God has complete control over the world, rape will always be evil in world. Also, because God is present in the world, men of good character always oppose rape (as do you.)

I can say this because God has acted in history, in my own life, and because he has spoken.

1. If you simply look for "right and wrong," you fail to find it.
2. If you simply look for that which brings about the greatest good, you will fail to find it.
3. If you simply look for what good people do, you will fail to find it.

But God is Trinitarian in nature, so what is true, what is best for the world, and what men of good inner character actually do is all the same thing.

-J.Kru

I would like to put out some facts before applying any opinions:
1. Pornography is not covered by our first ammendment rights. Neither is profane, vulgar and lewd language in public spaces. So, you do not have freedom of speech. Get over it. You will never have liberty as it is defined. I am pretty sure the whole thing begins with "We the People, in order to form a more perfect union...." Please do some reading about past civilizations that became self absorbed and find out what happened.

2. Once you get past the headline and video, and actually read the article(s), you find out no one is trying to take your porn away from you. Stop being spoon fed and put forth some effort longer than 10-20 minutes (which is probably the average CF workout time).

3. Everybody is connected and influences each other, even if done in the privacy of your own home. You are not a unique snow-flake nor do you live in a vacuum.

4. Dale-Saran is correct. They do not teach enough classics in today's school. Otherwise people would read, and study the tragedies and see that all actions have consequences, and the purpose is to try and avoid the negative consequences. In other words, put down the mouse and read a book.

5. A view against pornography does not necessitate and automatic reference to religion or faith (JoeB1). Again, research some psychology or therapy literature on the subject and educate yourself. Also, read the constitution (We the People) and understand that the majority do have the right to legislate laws that provide for the benefit of society. That is democracy!

Opinion:
John, nice job on standing for your beliefs (as well as everyone else), and taking (what seems to be) the minority view (although it is not the case). You are right. You do not need CF as there are many other web-sites that use the same exercises and principles but at a much higher intensity. Let everyone else live their own Greek tragedy.

J.Kru, you did a fine job of trying to bring some intelligent, logical and lucid thought to the forum. That in itself is the minority view.

CF should do what it does best; provide information concerning nutrition and exercise. If you feel the need to jump into the political arena, create another site for anti-government libertarians, and leave this site alone for the usual self blathering posts and comments (which no one probably ever reads).

#427, Dale_Saran

Great point regarding classics and logic, I think all too often we ignore these essential bases of education and promote mindless task specific things (ie, how to get a good SAT score through "tips," how to fix an engine by following steps). I mean dont get me wrong, these tasks have a purpose, but they should be combined with higher thinking. Even through college, many people never took any classes like this, I feel like my decision to major in history has paid off dividends over majoring in engineering or something of that matter. People need to use reason and actually learn something from other people, rather then stick to their tried and true beliefs that someone told them. I have learned a little bit on different things on crossfit from the rest day pages, but im sick of these arguments where people just say their piece and there is no discussion, its some sort of shouting contest. Anyways, great post I'm with you one hundred percent. We need more people like you around.

----
Catching up all weekend after being sick for a week

Cindy= 22 rounds, kipless pullups (one month of crossfit and improved 7 rounds, PR)

Deadlift, 7x1= 275, 295, 315, 315, 335, 355 (struggled), 315

5k run= 21 mins, moderate pace

Michael, modified (400 meter row, 50 situps on decline bench, 50 back extensions)
14 minutes, more of a warmup

will catch up on sundays and today's WOD this afternoon and hopefully not fall back again...

rest day as rxd

24 hours

I am massively brain fried from too much work and wearing too many hats, but since this is a form of recreation for me--believe it or not--I'm going to add a few thoughts unconnected to the 445 previous comments, since I still don't have time to read through them properly. Maybe tomorrow, with some luck.

Here is the basic progression, as I see it. The relationships between people that are genuinely satisfying are qualitative. They are non-material. Trust, for example, is not an object. It cannot be found materially anywhere. It can only be abstracted from a nexus of actions over time, and arises from rational observation, habit and gut instinct. It is not something that can be bought. It is an emergent property of a system in motion, and such phenomena I term qualitative.

"Sects" can be as limited as physical friction. Abstracting one level from there, it can be watching friction, between unloving, untrusting people. An effect, in my view, of doing this repeatedly is the development--or expression--of emotional distance, which amounts to a voluntary step back from participation in the motion of our social system. Of choosing--likely unconsciously in most cases--alienation, and the apparent safety of emotional detachment.

An effect of taking this step back is an increasing resistance to the qualitative aspect of social participation. Of notions like love, loyalty and trust. People, then, become increasingly like objects to be manipulated, since the non-material aspect of communication is deemphasized. This ultimately amounts to esteeming people for their value to you, and not as individuals valuable in themselves for qualitative reasons.

There is an intrinsic connection, in my view, between the need for power, and lack of satisfying interpersonal connections. Once you cease valuing people as values in themselves, they become objects. Once you lower yourself to a quantitative mindset, then logically more is better. If you reject notions like nobility, and love, then all that can be left is the imperative of "more".

In the process of objectifying others, you inevitable objectify yourself. If things have no qualities that are not visible, then logically size is what matters. The process of power is simply "the smaller you are, the bigger I am, and therefore better." All value comes to rest in comparisons of visible factors, which in the real world amounts to what you can get away with. Those with power can do what they want, and those without it are severely constrained.

The connection between sects and violence is that emotionally detached, objectifying sects is emotionally unsatisfying. There is no lasting connection created, and no growth of the self. On the contrary, persistent frustration is inevitable, and that generates hostility and tension. That tension expresses itself in violence. That is how you get from Debbie does Dallas to Hostel 2. You can draw a continuum of increasing frustration, and pent up anger.

We have in this and other nations countless people who come into the office, smile, exchange pleasantries, who seem normal, but inside feel deeply alone, angry, and frustrated. Our family loyalties have been greatly weakened, as have our shared communal values. It is quite possible to meet and greet people, hang out in bars, talk to "friends", and never reach a level of genuine intimacy and openness with respect to your deepest feelings.

P0rn can help to mask these feelings. It can help to apparently mitigate in the short term these feelings of unwanted and apparently unbroachable solitude, but it is a deal with the Devil.

Sect is a very natural, essential act. So is love, and of the two, it is by far the most important.

I wrote in my notes some time ago that genuine innocence is the new p0rn. It is the illicit in an era when most children enter adults acts all too young, while lacking the emotional maturity to understand what they are doing, and what they are losing.

If it is not clear already, the act of alienating oneself from ones fellow humans, and choosing the pursuit of power, is the track of evil. To the extent that any activity supports disengagement from ethical struggles, and social connection, it is tending towards evil. This does not make it evil in itself, but in its effects. Maybe some kids can play Grand Theft Auto 4 (where you can have sects with a pr0stitute, then beat here to death with a baseball bat) without ill effects, and maybe even with good effects. But in general, on average, I doubt that to be the case.

Notions of good and evil must always be context driven. What matters, in my view, is not current reality, but direction. In what direction is something moving you? Is it good, or bad?

Finally, I just bought a book yesterday that might interest some of you. It's been out for a while, and the mainstream media has largely supported the psychotherapeutic community, apparently, in their collective refusal to present this case as widely as it merits.

Most of you know about Freud's theories of psychodynamic development, including perhaps most famously the "Oedipus Complex". Well, when he was developing his theory, he was presented with prima facie evidence that many of the stories his patients were telling him about sectual abuse as children were likely true. A medical doctor he knew, who ran a Paris morgue, noticed that he saw a lot of children in there who had been raped and murdered, most often, apparently, by their parents. They were of course never charged, since no one thought such a thing was possible.

In any event, he initially proposed a theory of adult mental illness based on many massive emotional problems in adulthood stemming from actual childhood abuse. He then reversed course, out of cowardice, in the view of the author.

If we consider that his theories provided much of the pop cultural support for the Sectual Revolution, and that they were likely wrong from the outset--and have certainly been found to be without empirical support throughout the 20th Century--then we can begin to see the massive effect bad ideas can have.

The link is here: http://www.jeffreymasson.com/other-publications/assault-on-truth.html

That's enough for now.

If the only upside to rest-day convo is that it provides Barry Cooper with a forum for sharing his thoughts, than it is well worth having IMO.

# 427 Dale Saran, caught it but unsure if you are referencing the writer or the lawyer?

I wish I could get my fitness info from where I get my fitness info from, my porn from where I get my porn from, my economic news from where I get my economic news, and my religion from where I choose.

I'm all for brain exercise on rest days but since i'm on a fitness site, I wish it were about the challenges and misleadings that are present in today's fitness environment. It would be great if the frontpage of the site matched the primary purpose of the site and rest-day mental exercise was executed in the forum.

If this were discussion about fat-loss or rehab methods, I might have learned something new. Instead, I read a lot of comments that beat a dead horse dead-er, and I still know my position on censorship. (On that note...do arguments about censorship ever change? Or are they always the same argument in a new context?)

I know CrossFit wants freedom/censorship to be an important issue for me.

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This being my non-paying opinion, I'll continue to return regardless. (But it is a great idea.)
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BTW...Last Saturday's picture might be my favorite thing that ever happened on the Internet.

Crossfit asks "What is Fitness?" Now we must ask "What is Crossfit?"

It is just plain W*E*I*R*D to see titillating photos, questionable musical selection for videos and now a link to a site like this. What does this have to do with the CF progamme? Increasingly, I find it embarrassing to enthusiastically refer people to the site for a "revolutionary fitness programme" and then see videos to rap songs with lyrics that would make you blush, photos of women doing thrusters on the main page which seem to be all about the cleavage and then a link to a "defending p*rn" site.

CF is not marking videos on its main site as w/f safe despite this all coming up recently in a CF Discussion Board thread and this simple solution apparently being the agreed outcome. Why not?

If I'd forked out to go on a Cert and become an affiliate, I'd be hacked off that my investment was being put at risk by CF running the site in this way. It risks alienating people for no good reason.

Spare me the half-baked undergraduate arguments about free speech, the questions about ceding of control to the State and the "log off if you don't like it" response. The revolutionary fitness concept is brilliant. Shame it's being tainted by either stupidity, or worse, perhaps by an arrogant and wilful refusal to accept that it is better to maintain an exercise site in such a way that it appeals to parents, children and those "prudes" amongst us who expect to be able to log on to a fitness site and not be bombarded with tacky political points and titillation.

End of rant.

#451: and where, precisely, do you go to debate constantly changing and essentially random topics of general social and political importance? And assuming such a site exists, does it contain multiple viewpoints, or does it work to help you confirm your own biasses?

If you know of a site that meets those needs, please share it. I'm not aware of any. In fact, my sense is that when you want to learn something you already know, you have that dialled in. You know where to go. It's precisely that you can't predict the output of this site that makes you uncomfortable.

Shane,

Go into a magazine stand at your local grocery store, and tell me what you see. What I see at every grocery checkout stand is Cosmopolitan magazines with a seemingly inexhaustible supply of sects tips for women. Kids in 4th grade out there are watching CSI and Titanic.

Maybe you would prefer we lived in a different world, but we don't. The fact is that the audience for fitness is very diverse, and precisely the things that repel you will attract others. How is any one human being supposed to appeal to a universal audience? Is it perhaps just possible that Coach and others just decided to do what they want, with the understanding that everything between doing everything and doing nothing will annoy someone somewhere?

Did the Mud Run picture offend you? Dave Castro in the pool with Kettlebells? What about the Message Board where you can post videos of your Olympic lifts, bodyweight squats, and whatever else you need help on?

You are keying on one thing, and one thing only, to the detriment of very literally 99% of the content on here. Why?

Josh,

Thanks!!! I will add that I do appreciate comments, but generally just keep going without responding. My focus is not getting attention for myself, but for my ideas. I'd almost prefer posting anonymously, but I wouldn't get away with it for long.

Thank the good Lord, I only come to this site for a good old fashioned workout & not the bickering back & forth about "HOT" topics. When did training get political? if I want topics on current affairs, I will click on my BOOB TUBE & listen to the rantings from the frog-like creature on CNN (larry king) as he wipes the bums of loser politicians giving me lip service. It truly is comedy,when an outsider looks in on the weirdness of "America"...now don't go saying I am anti-american, because I am not. U guys just have some oddities that make life interesting.

A deviant culture begets deviant behaviour! Think about it!!!

It's interesting to me you would consider the political process to primarily consist in the opinions of others which you consume on the "channel" and medium of your choice.

It is my understanding that the point of free speech within a democracy is in no small measure to enable the free exchange of opinions. That such an exchange might occur among unelected private citizens is precisely what was intended. We elect representatives, but the intent was that they be merely the best among us, not the only ones capable of arguing or even expressing opinions. Any of you ought to be able to succeed in public office, and ought to cultivate your minds and bodies to that purpose.

That, to me, is the ideal of this nation, not cynically watching talking heads debate the fine points of x,y and z. What if they are wrong, as they clearly were with respect to Vietnam? What if they are wrong in their total and complete failure to play a role in publicizing our many public victories in Iraq?

What then? Then you get it totally wrong, and elect the wrong person.

Did no one else laugh out loud last week when Barack Obama--who has yet to complete ONE term in the Senate---called ex-Pow, and son of an admiral "naive" in his foreign policy beliefs?

Yet this is what you get when people simply want to consume the opinions others worked (or didn't work, as in this case) to develop.

Democracy is intended to be participatory, up to a point. Certainly, there is a need for well intentioned debate among those who want to move our country in the proper direction, and not towards further moral and political decline.

In my own view, p0rnography--as an outgrowth of the Sectual Revolution, itself a product of the "counter-culture" of the 60's and 70's--is best understood as a rejection of the power of traditional values. There are many factors in this, including leftist critiques of "bourgeois culture", Freudian pseudoscience, and simple opportunism among social misfits.

Yet, something powerful happened to us when we as a nation convinced ourselve it was OK to abandon South Vietnam--our ally and friend--and watch them be taken over by murderers, rapists and thieves.

When you do wrong, and refuse to see it, it becomes necessary to downgrade what I call your Qualitative Horizon to include that act. You have to not only rationalize that act, but develop a new paradigm within which stabbing your allies in the back is OK.

The paradigm developed then--which essentially consisted in the abandonment of rational thinking--still motivates those who want to vote for Obama, because he will "bring the troops home".

Never mind that we have won the hard battles everywhere but Mosul, by and large. Never mind that our enemies rape and behead little boys, and torture anyone they want to, and time they want to, for any reason they want to.

Let's be clear: the proposal on the table on the Democratic side consists in effect in abandoning our support of Iraq's efforts to avoid internal subversion by organized serial murderers. There are literal Hannibal Lectors in that group, and nobody on the Democratic side of the aisle wants to admit it.

They want to exist in fantasy land, where it is good enough to focus on why we went into Iraq, and pretend coming back out the same way will somehow return us to the ante bellum status quo. This is the sort of fallacious nonsense that enabled us to stand by and watch millions of Cambodians get murdered, and not put two and two together.

Lisa L.,

At first, I decided not to respond to the porn defense link, lest I give it some credence. The article was a defense of porn, which is indefensible – if for no other reason than the fact that porn lacks an operative definition.

The link is worthless for two reasons. First, John Stagliano charges that the government improperly used the Patriot Act leading to his indictment for pornography. There is no evidence offered that the government did so, or that such a use of the P.A. would be improper.

Second, the link provides no samples of the alleged pornography by which one might judge whether it consisted of the thing called obscenity (that can’t be defined either).

In short, the offensive link was objectively worthless, and not especially entertaining. It was, like its subject matter, of no redeeming social value.

Not too many generations ago, English discriminated between the words freedom, liberty, and license, a distinction lost among the 450-odd preceding comments. Liberty was a freedom previously denied. License was an unwarranted or special extension of a freedom. Regardless of the fate of the words, the concept survives. This distinction points out that freedoms have limitations. Porn is a license taken on freedom of speech.

The existence of the First Amendment (which we all honor, don’t we?) puts the government irrevocably in the business of regulating speech. This is contrary to vague libertarian principles. The left, of course, oppressively extends the government’s role in that regulation (e.g., politically correct speech), as necessary for leftist principles leading to total, centralized control (by them).

And once the government is involved, here come the lawyers – short in values, strong in process, specialists in dissemblance and the art of making the DEFINED ambiguous. (Insert compulsory good lawyers, bad lawyers, … .)

The situation is no better relying on scripture, e.g., Jeremiah Wright, Jerry Falwell, John 5:16 – wildly dissimilar masters of the “we know it when we see it” school, now reserved for judges and juries.

Several comments addressed the lack of class in the accompanying Allison video. Surprise! That word seems to have been lost in recent generations, along with concepts of grace, poise, respect, taste, tact, dignity, polite. These generally are attributes of quality.

A couple of comments speculated about Allison being a CrossFit groupie. Regardless, her language identifies her as a wannabe. Such language is a way of gaining recognition, being part of the in-crowd.

Self-control is achieved in one of two ways: meeting the standards, or lowering the bar.

I have what I might call a close relationship with a person newly in the porn business. When I was first disappointed to hear of his job, he informed me that he was working as a video editor, responsible for quality. That cracked me up! I asked him if he was responsible to ensure that the quality was sufficiently low. In his explanation, he admitted that some of the videos were so objectionable that he refused to edit them! And his boss let him get away with it. This is porn in the “gag a maggot” category. For the libertarians, do we draw a line even there? Is there any level below which we don’t want to sink? If not, how about kiddy porn? Does the First Amendment remain viable?

Freedom of/to porn is designed to break down barriers. Nothing beyond felonies should stand to influence behavior, or to distinguish a respected individual from trash. Libertarians would no longer hold our actions to such standards.

In view of the disrespectful (to some) porn link, and offensive (to some) music and speech on the videos, criticism for lack of quality control might be warranted.

If not waning quality, then how about hypocrisy? Why are the links and videos subjected to no filtering, while the comments in response get the wire brush?

Why not links to “Milk Nymphos”, “Storm Squirters 2 ‘Target Practice’”, and “Fetish Fanatic Chapter 5”? Where do libertarians draw the line?

#453 - Is your question to me about why I'm "focussing on this one thing" an attempt to hint that anyone who is against you on this has some kind of issue or hang-up? Why would you ask that question? This is a comments section, under a link to a site called "defend our porn". Why would I not share an opinion on this? Apologies if I've got this wrong - maybe you could clarify your reason for asking the question.

The reason I'm vexed about this is becuase I am looking like a fool referring people to an "exercise site" and then logging on myself that day and seeing boobs, hearing "b*tch and hoe" etc. in lyrics to exercise videos and now seeing a link to "defend our porn". It's frankly embarrassing and I can't believe the affiliates aren't up in arms about it.

Asking me whether an innocuous mud run picture offends me isn't a particularly killer point. I'm not expressing an extreme view here.

Perhaps it's more insightful for me to ask you if topless women are acceptable on the main page? Ok with that? What about naked men and women? Children? Still comfortable? There's a spectrum here and at some point, we're all going to agree it's inappropriate. Right now - and call me a prude if you will - I think CF have got it wrong for their main site. It's not exactly massively offensive, but it could be better.

Regardless of whether or not you think porn is okay, it is a personal issue. That means you go to a porn site to see it, hear it and experience it. Not an elite fitness web site.

I work at a vitamin and supplement store and am asked many times throughout the day about exercise and nutrition. I have recommended CrossFit countless times. I will be more careful in my recommendation from now on. Not because I do not believe in the program, or even because I think some of the material is questionable and reflects badly on CrossFit. I am concerned that the material on a website I recommend may reflect badly on me.

I must admit, I am desensitized to the explicit language, probably because I use it too often. I did not even realize Allison had used foul language. It just does not get my attention anymore. (Maybe this sheds some light on the different reactions to the p0rn link.)

I posted earlier that one should not just get rid of all the positives because of one negative. Unfortunately, that is not reality. One negative is enough to drive someone away a lifetime. People have strong feelings about certain things. Perhaps the link was intended to promote a Libertarian agenda, perhaps it was just to cause a stir, or maybe it was posted for a reason only the posters know. But it certainly does not help the stated goal of forging elite fitness. As a matter of fact, it detracts from it.

The subject matter caused a negative reaction in many. That is a fact. If the aim of the CrossFit website is to promote CrossFit and the health and fitness that CrossFit brings to peoples lives, then posting something that could potentially drive people away, is a disservice to CrossFits goals.

To use a Biblical example, the apostle Paul in referring to his agenda of moving the Word of God, stated "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." The point is, that if something he did caused another to not believe, then he would not do it, even though it was perfectly within his right. He goes on to say, "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth (well-being)." If the goal of CrossFit is to help others better themselves, then "thinning the herd" is not the best way to go about it.

On the other hand, if CrossFit's aim is to suck people in by way of a great self help program, but really has another underlying agenda (like indoctrinating us with Libertarian ideas), then CrossFit joins the ranks of many successful organizations who have used the same formula (one I can think of readily is Scientology). But even if this is the case, I think you may have overplayed your hand with a p0rn link.

He was referancing Milton's Paradise Lost.

I wrote a paper about how his God is no God of mine. His God sucked imho.

This has been an interesting read. I'm glad I am forced to read the classics.

#457 Jeff Glassman

Thank you for distinguishing liberty and freedom, and also defining license. I had intended to search that out earlier today but had not followed through, yet. You've saved me the trouble. I could not reconcile freedom of speech and p0rn in my mind, but your statement that "porn is a license taken on free speech" cleared that up for me.

As for Allison being a wannabe - aren't we all? Do we not all utilize speech and mannerisms of those we want to be like, and those we are around? Engineeers talk like engineers, cops talk like cops, friends talk like their friends. I don't think her language is the tell. The fact she moved to California and has gone to every cert she possible could makes her a wannabe, which is not a bad thing in my mind. We all wannabe something.

Besides, I would venture to say that her language is more a product of NYC than CrossFit.

Boo to all the hating going on here. Porn is controversial. Allison is the bomb. Rest days are crucial.

If you tried to conclude that every article posted here was intellectually endorsed by CF and every CFer out there, you'd be looking at a fitness program with a radical schizophrenic libertarian agenda. All these articles are for is to get discussion going while our bodies try to mend themselves.

I just worked 18 hours and am just not up to reading the comments. I don't know how our soldiers, sailors and marines work the hours they do, day after day, week after week, month after month. You all have my deep respect.

I will say simply that if the purpose was to kick over a bees nest, the goal was accomplished. Don't most of you have an impulse when you see a button that says "Don't push this button", to push the button?

You can do some really creative things when you are small, and off the radar. What many people seem to want is for Coach Glassman and others to behave--now that CrossFit is exploding--and pull the outlyers in, and stay within the boundaries defined by standard social protocols.

But you know we still have Pukie and Uncle Rhabdo as mascots. Anybody who doesn't find that funny is always going to have trouble understanding why they post outrageous links on occasion, and tolerate and encourage regular spirited discussions on a variety of topics.

Forgot Airmen. I was trying to be politically correct. I should have stuck with soldiers as a catch all.

Side note: everybody should read Michael Yon's new book "Moment of Truth in Iraq". I read it in four hours, and found the time well spent.

Ok, I didn't think I would ever say this,.. but I am an Allison "Tale of a CrossFit Die Hard" fan. She cracks me up, actually she reminds me of my little 15 year old sister, just a little more grown up and focused on what she loves to do, but what impresses me most about her is that I think she actually has a really good, pure heart. Notice that when Sevan gave her the opportunity to gossip or rip an "annoying" posters on the site, instead of taking advantage, she immediately said that everyone has their opinons and actually complemented CrossFiters for their eloquence and communication skills. This isn't the only time that she has demonstrated her class and guilessness. Not only is Allison beautiful and passionate (about her career, and probably about everything else in her life) and fun, but she is also a quality girl.

Yesterday, I thought today was another Rest Day. I will read through the comments.

However, I just finished the following essay, which I agree with completely. This is the best summation of what I am trying to say I have seen, and although it uses some adult language and is not for kids, is fully appropriate for those working to sort through these problems:

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_2_urb-sammler.html

Here are some selected quotes, which become directly relevant to this topic quickly:

"The American elite, Bellow saw, had lost confidence in its core values. “The labor of Puritanism was now ending”; the Puritan outlook that had guided America for three and a half centuries, the bourgeois outlook that “formerly was believed, trusted, was now bitterly circled in black irony.” Without faith in their core bourgeois values and in the social order that rested on those values, the old elite had ceased to believe in its own legitimacy. . .

Quote continued:

Of all the Puritan restraints, [sectual] restraint was Number One on the elites’ hit list. The opposite of a virtue, it was now deemed harmful, malignant. As the ascendant psychotherapeutic worldview had it, Sammler caustically notes, “the bad puritanical attitudes from the sick past . . . have damaged civilization so much.” In the 1960s, the elites wanted “the final triumph of the Enlightenment—Liberty, Fraternity, Equality, Adultery!” With the “struggles of three revolutionary centuries” finally won and the constraints of church and family cast off, the American elites demanded one ultimate liberation. They clamored for the “privileges of aristocracy, . . . especially the libidinous privileges, the right to be uninhibited, spontaneous, urinating, defekating, belching, coupling in all positions, tripling, quadrupling, polymorphous, noble in being natural, primitive, combining the leisure and luxurious inventiveness of Versailles with the hibiscus-covered erotic ease of Samoa.”

For many middle-class people, like Sammler’s pretty niece, a sexual adventurer who “has done it in too many ways with too many men,” the result was an epidemic of divorce that left a generation of wounded children, determined either never to get divorced and inflict the same pain on their own children or else never to get married in the first place. Bellow himself, who had five wives, plus affairs and one-night stands beyond enumeration, came to judge the sexual revolution “a thirty-year disaster.”

The Enlightenment, emphasizing reason, liberation, and dreams of human perfectibility, lost sight of these fundamental truths about human nature and the social order. "

Just watched the "PORN" video. Looked like the "Dancing With The Stars" my wife makes me watch. With the words "porn" & "getting off" voiced over, I kept wondering where the porn is? I think in, regards to multiple posts I read, this was a good one for conversation. Definately in the spirit of truth that CrossFit is baised on, and talking about the taboo. I just wonder when the proverbial topics of Abortion, Gay Marrage, Gun Controle, ect. will be up next. It's funny to see people get so quickly Riled-Up.
This topic was almost like Jesus walking into a temple causing all kinds of problems, "Jesus? Now why'd you have to go and bring that up? Can't we just keep doing things like we were? You mean we have to talk about this?!"
Sue You. Sue everybody! Relax. By the way, where's the "Porn"?

At the risk of overstating the obvious, Obama is an heir to the legacy of the 60's, and is valued--even cherished--by his devotees for that reason. His father is an African Muslim. His stepfather an Indonesian Muslim. His mother an expatriate Marxist who abandoned him for all intents and purposes at age 10. He shows no gratitude in public for the role his white grandparents played in putting him through roughly the 5th grade through high school. His grandmother is apparently still alive, but is not to be "made available".

Look at this picture, and ask yourself why Obama's only comment was to point out they were volunteers: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/obama_che_guevara_flag_scandal/

Did he not find any problem with the fact that they were openly glorifying a Communist regime? If so, he was uncharacteristically inarticulate on the matter. The clear conclusion is that his main regret was getting caught.

All of this flows together: leftist politics, pornography, the sexual revolution, our abandonment of Vietnam, the destruction of the family in the inner cities, and the desire now to abandon Iraq, regardless of the cost to the innocent men, women and children fighting for the liberty there, that leftists claim to support.

We can't speak intelligently about any of this until we recognize as a nation that nothing good came of the 60's. It was not an era of youthful exuberance. It was a calculated assault on all of the values that enabled us to succeed as a nation, and which until then enabled us to pursue genuine happiness within the framework of a shared morality. Incalculable harm was done to the fabric of our nation, and I see this election as nothing less than a referendum on who we as a people want to be, and how we want to define ourselves in the 21st century.

Do we want to make the Victim the primary reality, and primary focus of all policy? Or do we want to resurrect the concepts of heroism and nobility, and treasure those who stand, fight, and deliver victory, regardless of the odds?

================================================
Why can't we keep discussions on Crossfit about fitness?

Some people think porn is good.
Some people think pot is good.
Some people think Shania Twain is good.
Some people think killing babies is good.
Some people think exercise is goood.
Some people think rape is good.
Some people think rock 'n roll music is good.

Regardless, with a group this size and growing there is only one thing we can all agree on. Exercise is good. That is why we are here.

Any Crossfit supported discussion that is potentially offensive and deviates from why we are here (fitness), will only serve to divide the people and reduce their numbers.

I personally don't think porn should be illegal but I also do not feel comfortable supporting a fitness website that promotes non-fitness related activites that I don't condone.
================================================

#445 zo

Although I agree with the rest of what you say, this line confused me: "I feel like my decision to major in history has paid off dividends over majoring in engineering or something of that matter," and the context was that school should teach logic and reason rather than tried-and-true methods.

Try staring at an engineering problem for 2 hours, scratching your head, in attempt to figure out how the heck to go about solving it, and then tell me that engineers lack critical thinking skills and training. In fact I would argue that in engineering the #1 most important thing is critical thinking. Some companies hire engineers, regardless of their discipline, solely because they've been trained to look for complex solutions to difficult problems. There is no such thing in engineering school as memorization (which I would argue is one of the most important skills when studying history). So if you want skills in logical thinking and reason, and want to avoid relying on memorization, look no further than engineering.

Also, I miss John. :(

#472 Eddie M

Yeah, I pry shoulda been a little clearer in that sentence, I went to one of the service academies where it is hardcore technical, and I was one of the few general history majors. So I have a bachelors of science actually, cause we take so many engineering and math core classes, and trust me, I am not saying they are easy or lack critical thinking skills (one semester of astro engineering is enough for me). I'm really glad I took them, I think I was talking more in the context of a lot of schools, where it is possible to go through an entire four years but avoid some of the basic fundamentals of education. For instance, I have some friends at some other colleges that majored in "recreational leisure management" and got through an entire undergraduate without taking any literature classes, history, and only very very basic math classes. I think when this happens, people start getting too task specific and start to lose some of the broader contexts of what they are learning. At my school, I know a bunch of engineering or math based majors who are very very smart in what they do, but they have no way of expressing opinions, having a discussion, etc. And yeah, I know history has a lot of weirdos that are as bad or worse. So I think I was talking more from a personal perspective, that a good balance is needed. Too be honest, I dont really know why I specified engineering, I have all the respect in the world for it, I was just trying to say Im really glad I took a program that stressed a lot of the humanistic ideals, I think its better helped me understand why things are the way they are. But I do understand it goes both ways, and if I did a history program without some engineering/math based things I would lack a lot of fundamentals.. Ohhh, and believe it or not, a good history program doesn't really have much memorization, its more about looking at a situation and analyzing it, putting it in perspective. I dont know many exact dates of things, know who was 5th in command at the battle of Amphipolis, etc...hope that cleared what I said up, thanks for pointing that out...

And yes, the Flying Spaghetti Monster's noodly appendage has affected my life well...

At cottage for long weekend, so I made up a wod
3 rds for time:
100m wheelbarrow push with approx. 200# rock
10-20# DB Right arm periscope lunges
15-25" picnic table jumps
20 push ups
25 Dbl unders
10-20# DB Left arm periscope lunges
11:48

I would prefer to believe that Crossfitters are elevated thinkers as well as dedicated, sure-minded fitness seekers. That being said, the pornography as a hallmark of freedom of speech inference, which was surely penned at Crossfit HQ, is a bit misguided. Legions of men and women, both in the adult industry and merely purveyors of the product, have had their lives irreversibly damaged by it. One has to but spend any time in the legal arena of Family Law (dominated by divorce cases) to realize this fact. Freedom of speech and expression was associated with pornography during the sexual (social) revolution of the 60's and 70's. Alas, though sexual curiosity is indeed a uniquely human trait, the adult film industry has become nothing more than an enormous money-making behemoth that has enslaved thousands of young, curious, misguided fortune seekers. Disease, addiction, and corruption of the innocent are the by-products. I believe in crossfit and adhere to its tenets, but obviously some of the hierarchy wishes to address questionable political agendum through the program. Please, pick your battles well. Remember, Crossfitters are mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers, adult and child alike. I don't particularly care to have my daughter visiting the website only to see an artless Buttman endorsed dance troupe cavorting on stage at an Adult Video Award show. Semper Fi.

Wow, I read through it all. And now after doing a PR "Murph", I find i'm too tired to say anything about it at the moment!

Thanks for the frustrating, confounding, interesting, and occasionally lucid and illuminating posts, all who contributed.

But I'll second Richard's post above, to the haters: breathe deep, pause, reflect, and quit the hating. Anger can be very productive to provoke action from inaction. Hate is distinct from anger, and is no good. If God is anything, God is love. If Good is anything, Good is Love.

Didn't realize I'd not updated this page - the post of Richard's I referenced is no longer directly above mine. Post #463, to clarify.

zo #474

Thanks for the clarification. :) I agree that teaching broader perspectives is lacking in our education system. I wish actually that our high school educations were all good enough that colleges could focus 100% on the degree. i.e. if you're a history major, only take relevant classes; you don't need to learn basic writing skills or algebra (this should have been covered sufficiently already). Unfortunately our K-12 education system is not good enough, and colleges attempt to pick up the slack...I don't think they can cover everything while still teaching the core classes for any degree. And yes, many engineers are social misfits. I will not deny this; in fact I like to point this fact out frequently. We really need to get out more....

And we really need more pirates in this world to help reverse the effects of global warming.

To all,

It was wrong for me to post the comments in the way that I posted them. I used the Word of God in such a way so as to assault those with whom I disagreed. I lashed out at those who spoke against my beliefs. I attacked Mr. Glassman personally, and I have never even met the man personally. I had no right what so ever to do so. I am truly sorry for how I spoke.

I deserve a good beating by each and every one of you that I have offended. I make no excuse for my very poor choice of words, because there is none. I am a worm for speaking the way that I did, and I deserve no mercy from any of you.

Why am I posting this, because a dear brother, Timothy, took the time to write to me, and show me from God's word how wrong I was. I believe the Lord was also behind him in this. I do not believe porn is good, and I do believe it is evil, but not as evil as the way I have spoken here in this thread.

I’m sorry, please forgive me,
John

#145 BOTFCE
your haiku is flawed
count syllables on fingers
try again, next time

John, though I did not participate actively in the discussion of the past few days, I did read the entire thread with interest (to say the least), and was upset at your approach. For myself I say, Thank you for the apology, but more so, thank you for making the effort and doing the internal work to go beyond the hate. I find my faith in humanity reaffirmed.

And it's not my place, but just so you know - you're forgiven. I hope to see you constructively in further discussions.

-Mike

(...cont) and the other thing I forgot to mention, I'm very curious to see this email which affected you so. It must have been a powerful message. If you feel it doesn't breach any implied confidentiality, and if you and Timothy are willing, would you be so kind as to share it with us? Or with myself, if you prefer.

Thank you

hm. i'm not sure why this link was even posted in the first place, but i am glad that it has caused so much controversy.

to me, this just proves that there are still people out there with moral values.

#480: John. Don't be so hard on yourself. This is a full contact sport. If you are stating what you believe, so be it. The whole point of these things is to attract diverse viewpoints. You just need to understand you will take some hits. Tactically, you may also need to be careful not to feed the biasses of the many in America who already have it in for the so-called "Religious Right".

Personally, I've been called everything under the sun, including literally every expletive you can imagine, and a few you couldn't. It's all good fun.

My favorite to this moment remains "Conservaretard Toon". I keep meaning to make a T-shirt of that.

#479, Eddie M

I think the information is pretty clear, I really dont know how people can't accept this as evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FSM_Pirates.png

And yeah, I def. agree with you about high school being the place to get a firm foundation for everything you learn in college. I think I just had a real bad academic experience there, because the classes were so filled with ridiculous busy work and many of those classes seemed pointless. But yeah, it would be interesting to see how much more effective colleges could be if they were able to just focus their efforts on whatever you are majoring in, and students only took limited but interesting core classes. Apparently the rationale is that college should be an extension of your high school education, and you start getting very specific in masters and PhD work. but I definitely agree that you have to start getting kids into education young, and make sure they have a firm foundation so they can be successful whether they go to college or not. I think in a few years if I get out of the military I might try to move somewhere and run a school program, I think that would be pretty interesting and rewarding. I hear the problem here though is the bureacracy that you run into, and with this No Child Left Behind thing, teachers get so consumed by making sure the lowest scoring kids (that normally dont want to be there) get by that many of the smart ones are neglected. I'm all for helping out a kid that wants to learn and do well but just isn't succeeding, but I think that is rare, a lot of them are in a culture where its okay not to really care about how you do. Ohhh, and some of my friends that ended up teaching are completely fed up with the system, because giving a kid an F or a D in a class just shoots you in the foot, and you can get fired for failing kids. So they have kids that never show up to class, turn in bundled up pieces of paper as tests, and when they give the kid an F they meet with the principal who tells them he or she is going to override their grade and give them a C, because an F would look bad. Just seems ridiculous to me, I think its the culture thats to blame, and without this we are going to keep this status quo of mediocrity.

and yeah, I ended up at a pirate/global warming party once and was kinda of confused as to what was going on, but someone explained to me. Changed my life.

A lot of emotions here...

1- Ultimately, it's about the Patriot Act. Until it happens to you, it will serve in the causes you want to defend or destroy.

2- Porn is not cool. I don't like it, it hurts me personally and I hope to never be in situation where it is an issue in my relationship.
Really it's just too bad so many people lack imagination that they need it to get off.

3- The pic of the girl with the boobs spilling out of her top is more ridiculous than flattering. Maybe she watches a lot of porn and feels that she needs to compete. Anyway, it looks like it's a heavy load (I mean what she's lifting of course) and in the end I wish I had big boobs so I am probably just envious!

4- Alisson, well, she is putting in the time. And you can't blame her for being a CF groupie - Aren't we all...

Finally, Porn is a "great" topic for dicussion but it's a tough one, like religion and politics.
We may not all agree on these topics. But I bet we all feel the same on the dangers of the Patriot Act.

John,

You are a good man. I don't know you, but I trust your intent, veracity, and decency. I'd live next door to you and be proud of it.

All,

Isn't our commitment to freedom hypothetical, even window dressing, unless we prove willing to defend actions we find personally offensive?

Similarly, isn't "patriotism" a meaningless concept until we are willing to forgo some personal interest for our country? Isn't the admonition to "love thy neighbor" nothing more than an enticement to pleasure until we can learn to love those we don't like? Aren't our principled stands on anything little more than conveniences or comforts unless we're willing for them to discomfort and disconcert us? Etc.

It's not porn that needs defending per se, it's something much more important.

60 min spin