I dont know if I am just in bad shape. But fight gone bad kill's me every time.

I need this rest day.

Nice video. Keep the coaching tips from Burgener and Rip coming, even if they differ slightly. It all helps.

Dan D.

www.CrossFitStickers.com

asrx'd

Maybe Wal-mart should take the three empty plazas it created in my town and use it to house the underpriviliged.

And by the way, as far as the article goes, it's no surprise about Wal-Mart's response. I never have closely followed the negativity that surrounds the chain. I see the articles about people protesting the store openings and planned development in their community, but I always thought it was just unhappiness over trees being destroyed and the impact of the traffic on the neighborhoods.

These types of stories don't sell as many papers...Give us "Dirty Laundry."

Dan
www.CrossFitStickers.com

Many people will try to bury this story in an attempt to reignite hatred - an emotion most people embrace more readily. A good corporation? Get real. I can acknowledge that Wal-Mart did the right thing this time. This is not the first time I have heard of their feats during Katrina. It really fills me with hope when I hear of people doing the right thing when they are most needed.

Sadly, today is not a rest day. I had an early rest day on Friday due to work. Don't you just love dispatching vehicles at the last minute? I went ahead and had a good helping of Chinese food when I was already two hours outside my zone. It's all good, though. I actually lost weight one week when I was eating out all the time. I can't explain it. Well, enough yapping. I'm looking forward to FGB on Sunday!

I DID a front handspring all by myself!!!

Gotta make up FGB and Split Jerks tomorrow. I assume Split Jerks first then FGB would be best? Crazy week, got my schedule all out of whack!

WOW!

www.crossfitstickers.com is the basest mofo site out there!

Can someone explain active rest? is that what we are supposed to do on rest days?

You go Allison!!!

I can't wait to see what is next to do for the WOD.

Re In Wal-Mart We Trust by Colby Cosh:

Friendly comments are most welcome for beleaguered corporations, here Home Depot, Lowes, and especially Wal-Mart, better known for union-busting and predatory practices.

But the following gratuitous remarks are sorely in need of verification on an abundance of points, especially with respect to FEMA:

>> The results are recounted in a new paper on the disaster written by Steven Horwitz, an Austrian-school economist at St. Lawrence University in New York. While the Federal Emergency Management Agency fumbled about, doing almost as much to prevent essential supplies from reaching Louisiana and Mississippi as it could to facilitate it, Wal-Mart managers performed feats of heroism.

>>Meanwhile, Wal-Mart trucks pre-loaded with emergency supplies at regional depots were among the first on the scene wherever refugees were being gathered by officialdom. Their main challenge, in many cases, was running a gauntlet of FEMA officials who didn't want to let them through. As the president of the brutalized Jefferson Parish put it in a Sept. 4 Meet the Press interview, speaking at the height of nationwide despair over FEMA's confused response: "If [the U.S.] government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis."

Cosh should tell us exactly what “fumbling about” occurred, by whom, and where. Especially in light of the reports that the Governor of Louisiana barred FEMA relief from entering the State, that the Mayor of New Orleans refused to execute the city's emergency plans, the lack of reports of similar problems in Mississippi, and that FEMA was never a first responder. FEMA and perhaps the Army Corps of Engineers were made the goats of Katrina with the help of the mainstream media, all without justification. It was a whitewash for the local Democratic leaders.

Where were “refugees … gathered by officialdom”? The story that FEMA officials wouldn't let Wal-Mart trucks deliver to refugees demands corroborated evidence, not a passing accusation.

The “brutalized Jefferson Parish” president was Aaron Broussard. He told a tearful whopper on that Meet the Press interview. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9368952/ and read the transcript at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/. Instead of that pitiful performance, we need to hear more about Broussard's role among the Louisiana leadership who blocked the Army's yearly requests for funds to strengthen the levies. And how did he perform his first responder duties in the Parish and the city in the days immediately around Katrina's landfall?

The rest of Broussard's brief Meet the Press interview is on a par with one of Reverend Wright's sermons, and his “Mama, somebody's coming” recounting is a good match for Hillary's duck and run fantasy. Cosh's story appears to be on a par with Dan Rather's last.

We need to see Cosh's research.

For Will #12,

Work on the mind.

"Maybe Wal-mart should take the three empty plazas it created in my town and use it to house the underpriviliged.
Comment #6 - Posted by: raineyone 26/m/215/6' at March 29, 2008 7:43 PM"

Maybe you could use the money that you save by shopping at Wal-Mart and build said housing for the underprivileged.

Yeah, Walmart does some good things, but Mussolini made the trains run on time. They didn't raise all that aid money from the pockets of their execs, they had it lying after making it from predatory pricing and not putting it into their workers benefits.

WalMart screwed deborah shank, look it up. They are worthless and only care about themselves

The real problem with Wal-Mart, aside from predatory pricing and the welfare of its employees, lies within the economic principle of redistribution of impacts. Unfortunately, while the Wal-Marts of the world(ie large national retailers) create benefits to the members of communities through the lower prices generated through their economies of scale, the revenues generated are almost entirely removed from the communities in which they were raised. This redistribution of wealth to other areas negatively impacts the community far more than the reduced priced positively impact them. For example, a mom and pop store will generate revenue that is turned around and spent back in the same community from which it came, maintaining and even helping to increase the wealth of the community. When you buy at Wal-Mart, for example, the great majority of that money is sent to other communities in the form of new stores, or as a benefit to the shareholders (primarily in Arkansas and New York).

There is also the issue of the enormous amount of Chinese-made goods that are sold in Wal-Marts due to their lower cost. This further removes economic benefit from the coffers of America.

I highly recommend a book called The Small Mart Revolution by Michael H. Shuman. It provides an humorous and insightful look at the economics of the large national and international retailers and their impact on local communities.

I guess I accidentally hit the post instead of preview button. Anyways, the Wal-Mart article was very interesting. It is hard to imagine how it would be to be in their shoes during then and now and how hard it could probably be. I'm sure there are plenty of unsung heroes who did did their share during Katrina but wouldn't ever ask for anything in return.

On a side note I've been using Crossfit for the past four weeks. I unfortunately took a break for a few months and am now only realizing my mistake of doing so. After countless efforts of trying to recruit others to at least give this a try they all end up being slacker children. I always look forward to checking the website even if it is a rest day!

One good act doesn't outweigh policies that boarder on evil. Walmart has every right to exist, huzzah etc. But it makes me very sad that it does exist.

First time posting a WOD time,
Newish at CrossFit (2 years now).
FGB today;
Scaled bars to 65 lbs, but hardly made a difference, i think. Next time is Rx;
First round 113 (13 cals on row)
Second round 99 (10 cals on row)
Third round 116 (16 cals on row)
TOTAL 328.

Trying next time for a better round two, and aiming for 350!

#16 I agree. The timing of this article is highly suspect, especially in light of WalMart's shoddy treatment of Debbie Shank. It seems more a ploy to defer negative publicity than an actual tribute to the company. Something stinks with this one.

Tell me more about this drinking a gallon of milk thing. Do you eat anything else since its whole milk?

Okay, I guess I can see the point of this article, but what I cannot determine are the intentions of the author. Is he trying to win the hearts of "Anti-WalMart" groups or is he genuinely reporting the good deeds of the company during the relief efforts of Hurricane Katrina?

In any case, I really don't have an issue with WalMart at all. Of course that may have something to do with the fact that I've been living overseas for the past five years. But even when I did live in the states...WalMart was the place to go.

As far as the article goes, I'd like to say "thanks WalMart" but what we need to understand is that one of the reasons they were able to provide this kind of support was because of the people involved.

Leadership, compassion, professionalism, and preparedness - these are certain qualities that WalMart had possessed during the crisis of Katrina. What it boils down to is the intensity and compassion of the human spirit. Did the leadership of FEMA have these qualities - the media (and many others) think not. It's important to note that, in addition to WalMart and its employees, thousands of others had a hand in the disaster relief efforts following Katrina.

Companies like WalMart have the ways and means to offer monetary support and manpower support - it's just good to see that they actually implemented a plan to put it to good use.

Fight Gone Bad has put me on house arrest. I'm literally not going to move unless it's essential to life, this rest day is golden! Take care everyone and Aloha!

Couldn't agree more with the article's point of view.

Somehow this didn't post yesterday...
46YOM/5'10"/190

Warm-up
Airdyne 6mins/2.25miles/127calories

1st WOD
Split Jerks...
Singles up to 240....them multiple misses..pushing bar out front. Will correct this.

2nd WOD
FGB
subbed airdyne for rower
old total-307
new total-363 pr

Knees and elbows looking forward to rest. Have a great Sunday everyone.

I have been boycotting WalMart for over two years.

I do not agree with many of the practices overall.

I started to go back for a couple of things.

I may yet change my mind.

For another topic - those who are resting and would like to read something a little more uplifting, try reading "The Power of Myth" - an interview with Bill Moyers of Joseph Campbell.

Whether you agree with him or not, Joseph Campbell put together some very interesting stuff in his time on the planet. It would do us all some good to read it and apply it to our own lives.

You can't credit Wal Mart with driving a forklift through a door to get water and medicine for disaster victims. Credit the forklift driver. The idea of decentralization and individual decision making is what provided the engine for effectiveness. At least this is the lesson I take from the example.

Good article.

#27

I agree with your assessment. "The idea of decentralization and individual decision making is what provided the engine for effectiveness."
We cannot put our hope in big government or big business. Americans must learn to think, provide, and take care of themselves. It sounds cold, but a major contributor to the scale of the disaster that was Katrina was the victims themselves. At least from what was reported the majority of the time, I saw no iniative on their part to improve their individual situations. In contrast to that, last year a tornado ripped through an Amish settlement near my home. Many homes, barns, and stores were destroyed. Within TWO WEEKS everything was rebuilt, and the debris was all cleaned up. The scale of the disaster wasn't the same, but self-suffiency and general mental and physical preparedness goes a long way.

#14, Richard, writes,

"[Wal-Mart] didn't raise all that aid money from the pockets of their execs, they had it lying after making it from predatory pricing and not putting it into their workers benefits."

How do you define "predatory pricing?"

Doesn't the money in fact come from the pockets of Wal-Mart's executives, since they choose not to take it in the form of compensation?

After a short series of scaled FGB workouts, yesterday was my 2nd RX'ed FGB and I beat my last score by 24 ... must have been all those Pull-Ups I did last week!

I'm sure many of you know this already, but I see where Seal Michael Monsoor will be awarded the Medal of Honor in April. After reading his story I feel undeserving to live in a country defended by heroic men like him. I can only thank god for our men and women who defend me and my family and our freedom.

In reference to Wal-Mart- there is that old quote that says 'all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing' right? I dont personally like some of Wal Marts business tactics but in their stores they have many good people in their employ that legitimately work at their job and find pride in what they do. They also make moral decisions in a time when help was needed desperately (A.K.A forklift guy). And just as a side note Wal-Mart may not be controlling the universe for much longer as their financial statements for the past fiscal year showed they failed to reach their projected income...and Target is catching up...were studying it in class thats how I know...but hey if their was one soul that was saved by all the efforts put forth by Wal-Mart to help then I say its worth it.

#29, Hari

Wal-Mart has a history of predatory pricing. When it opens a new store in an area, it drops prices well below reasonable market prices and take losses such that local businesses can't possibly compete. Once the other businesses go out of business, they raise their prices back to normal levels. Since Wal-Mart the corporation can absorb temporary losses, but local businesses can't, they always win. This is an illegal practice, and they have lost a number of lawsuits related to it.

Since Wal-Mart is a publicly owned corporation, its profits are the property of its shareholders, not its execs, and shares are barely dented by aid work. There is very little personal sacrifice in doing this kind of work. I'm not saying it's not good work, and I'm happy that they did it, but it doesn't make them suddenly saints.

It took Bill Gates several years of tireless large-scale philanthropy to lessen his and Microsoft's evil corporation image. Wal-Mart will need to do a lot more to earn goodwill.

in a similar vein http://frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=E147F275-AA0E-416F-B3B1-56EFD098801D

#16, Belligerent Me, writes,

"Unfortunately, while the Wal-Marts of the world(ie large national retailers) create benefits to the members of communities through the lower prices generated through their economies of scale, the revenues generated are almost entirely removed from the communities in which they were raised. This redistribution of wealth to other areas negatively impacts the community far more than the reduced priced positively impact them. For example, a mom and pop store will generate revenue that is turned around and spent back in the same community, from which it came, maintaining and even helping to increase the wealth of the community. When you buy at Wal-Mart, for example, the great majority of that money is sent to other communities in the form of new stores, or as a benefit to the shareholders (primarily in Arkansas and New York)."

Suppose a "mom and pop" store generate revenue by selling a given item for $1.00, while Wal-Mart sells that same item for 85 cents. Wal-Mart, buying for thousands of stores has a cost of, say, 75 cents, while the small store has a cost of, say, 80 cents. So, before expenses, Wal-Mart makes 10 cents and the local store makes 20 cents. Both now need to spend their “gross profit” (sales price minus cost of goods) running their business. Both pay local labor in their stores; both pay local rent and taxes. But let's suppose Wal-Mart manages to ship 5 of its 10 cents to its non-local operations, stockholders, etc. And let's assume that the local store keeps all of its 20 cents in town.

You're argument, as I understand it is that in the Wal-Mart transaction, 5 cents leaves the local community, while in the local store transaction, it all stays. However unless the item being sold is made in town, both companies are shipping their own cost for the item out of town. In my example, both businesses ship a total of 80 cents out of town.

It would seem that Wal-Mart keeps 5 cents in town while the small business keeps 20 cents in town. The difference is that when the consumer shops at Wal-Mart, in addition Wal-Mart keeping 5 cents in town, the consumer keeps 15 cents in her pocket (in town). When she shops at the local store, she effectively pays a 15-cent tax in the form of higher prices that is then reinvested in the town.

Keeping people from shopping at their local Wal-Mart is the ultimate "regressive" tax. The lower your income, the higher the percentage of your income being effectively taxed for the “good” of the community.

Made up FGB from yesterday:

30 14 16
17 5 11
13 10 12
13 6 3
10 7 5

Predatory pricing is when a (usually large) company temporarily prices below their costs in order to force other businesses out of the market.

I'm not sure if Wall mart does this or if their cost are so low due to economies of scale and efficiency.

Richard,

What is predatory pricing?

A couple years back George Will published the numbers on who had provided a larger benefit to the 'poor', Wal-Mart or Welfare. Wal-Mart had them beaten by a mile, and unlike the govt, Wal-Mart has never taken a dollar from anyone they did not willingly give. Voluntary exchange vice coercive extraction - no comparison in either moral imperative or positive outcome.

Today's my birthday. Almsot wish it wasn't a rest day, but then again, after yesterday's FGB I am ready for resting.

I couldn't overstate how much crossfit has added to my life the last 14 months - I hated giving up martial arts training, but it was not compatible with a family and professional life. Crossfit has me more fit, in much less time, than the martial arts training did. Similarly, I had given up on 'hard training' and high fitness levels (not enough time to train according to the old ways I trained) and had defaulted to 'maintaining.' Instead, I'm as fit, and stronger, than I've ever been. It positively impacts every aspect of my life.

Thanks Crossfit (But I must insist the you work on that predatory pricing - offering the goods free is terribly unfair to the competition).

Paul

#33, Richard, writes,

"Wal-Mart has a history of predatory pricing. When it opens a new store in an area, it drops prices well below reasonable market prices and take losses such that local businesses can't possibly compete."

Who is it that defines "reasonable market prices?" The definition of predatory pricing (which is not, per se, unreasonable) does not turn on the definition of something called "reasonable market prices."

"Since Wal-Mart is a publicly owned corporation, its profits are the property of its shareholders, not its execs, and shares are barely dented by aid work."

It is Wal-Mart's executives that determine how much of its cash will be spent on investment, advertising, compensation, etc., and how much will be retained as profits. It would be perfectly legal for Wal-Mart executives to raise their salary level by, say, 5%. Indeed one of the arguments from the Left is that Wal-Mart should do just that for its workers by diverting money from profits to salaries and benefits. That is the Left wants to substitute its judgment for that of Wal-Mart's the executives when it comes to determining what level of profits are to be retained by the stockholders.

Happy Birthday, Paul!

I'm coming up on my fiftieth and I couldn't agree with you more about the benefits of CrossFit. After several pushes from Spider Chick, I'm thinking of doubling down--going completely Zone, giving up wine, and sleeping a full eight to nine hours per night. It hard for me to believe that the results could be better than what I've experiences to date, but it wouldn't be the first time I've been amazed by CrossFit.

Wal-Mart helps everyone, especially poor people, by offering low prices every day. But it harms communities by fueling a race to the bottom on wages and benefits.

Wal-Mart's wages and benefits rank below many of its competitors. Workers may be sent home early without pay if the store is not busy. Or they might have to work longer shifts if business picks up. They seldom know their schedules much in advance.

Fine. That's the sort of hardball required to offer a gallon of pickles for $3.97. (BTW, the pickles will probably go bad before you have a chance to finish them. But rotting pickles are a precious monument to freedom. Long may we salute them!)

But cost-cutting is so deeply ingrained in the corporate culture that local managers sometimes go too far. Compulsory unpaid overtime under threat of dismissal happens to be illegal. So is locking in workers overnight.Top executives claim such actions are unauthorized. But who created the climate of fear of fear in which such practices thrive?

And is the $3.97 gallon of pickles really the ultimate public good? Would the public good be better served in the long run if the pickles cost $4.49?

The good news is that Wal-Mart may be past its peak. Relentless cost cutting can only go so far. Eventually, there is nothing left to squeeze. Target is coming on strong. Its president says paying workers $12 an hour instead of $9 makes a huge difference in their lives and inspires loyalty. In the past, Wall Street has punished this approach. That may be changing.

As a consumer, I shop online and at big box stores for major items. But whenever possible, I also try to support neighborhood businesses -- like a butcher shop, a family owned furniture store and specialty running store.

I hate Walmart, but mostly cause every time I walk out of the place those damned alarms go off cause the clerk didn't de-magnetize the anti-theft device on something.

It's good to hear the employees did some good. I think it's safe to say there is good and bad in having a big box store.

As a government employee that see's the inefficiencies of the government every day, I'm glad the private companies stepped up to the plate. A surefire way to screw anything up is to put a politician in charge.

I got out of the Coast Guard just before Katrina. Many of my friends flew down there and worked their asses off. But it's good to hear about those heroes that weren't so visible.

Good article and comments.

#41, Daniel Freedman, writes,

"And is the $3.97 gallon of pickles really the ultimate public good? Would the public good be better served in the long run if the pickles cost $4.49?"

What your asking is whether there should be a 52 cent tax on gallons of pickles so that the money can be shifted from the pickle consumer to the rest of the public. What do you think?

I do enjoy seeing that wal-mart did some good during Katrina. However, it would take a lot more than one good deed to overcome the damage that company has caused to this country.

Besides low wages, destroying local industry, wal-mart also repeatedly puts the screws to suppliers. Many suppliers will simply not produce a product if wal-mart will not purchase it. When wal-mart does purchase the item, they usually force the vendor to sell at a super low cost that prevents the vendor from making a profit. I know that some of that savings is past on to the consumer, but the cost to the industry is too high.

I'm an analyst in the retail industry and I can't tell you how many times I've heard of a relatively low volume supplier being put under after trying to do business with wal-mart.

#44, Jack, writes,

"Many suppliers will simply not produce a product if wal-mart will not purchase it. When wal-mart does purchase the item, they usually force the vendor to sell at a super low cost that prevents the vendor from making a profit. I know that some of that savings is past on to the consumer, but the cost to the industry is too high."

So, in the absence of a contract from Wal-Mart, many suppliers will not even make a product. In the presence of a contract from Wal-Mart, the suppliers will not make a profit. Why exactly does a supplier agree to enter into an arrangement where it cannot make a profit? My guess is that because the supplier does not know or understand its business in general or its costs in particular.

Could it be that some (efficient) vendors are actually more profitable when they do business with Wal-Mart, while other (less efficient) vendors are either no better off or actually worse off when they do business with Wal-Mart?

This would lead to the conclusion that relatively inefficient vendors should not do business with Wal-Mart. Why exactly is this a problem?

My suspicion is that many inefficient vendors, who were not going to make it anyway, try to build "volume" through their operations by agreeing to sell to Wal-Mart at or below their cost thereby speeding up the inevitable.

#44 - jack

Not to mention that when a supplier can not meet the price that Wal-Mart has dictated to them, they have to fire their American workers and shift manufacture to overseas. China just loves that.

There are two major things I hate about Wal-Mart. The first is how they treat their suppliers. They start out paying you a good amount for your product, one you can profit on, but they demand you keep a lot on hand so if it sells well you have more on stock to sell to them. Wal-Mart will then decide that instead of giving you the agreed upon $9.04 per item, they will only give you $8.42 they have to reduce costs each year. Well it costs you $8.53 to produce, so you fire the people you had making the product here and have it manufactured in China. Very good, you are now making a profit again and it is selling well, so you have to boost inventory again. You tell yourself at least you still have a good job and employ executives that are American. Ah oh, Wal-Mart will now only pay you $7.37 per item because there is a Chinese company that stole your design and using poison and lead can make the product for only $7.37. Nothing you can do about it, you can't lower your price any further, you have huge inventory, you go under. Wal-Mart happily now stocks the cheap piece of crap from China. Wal-Mart is happy, China is happy, and Wal-Mart shoppers who didn't work for said company are happy.

The second thing that kills me is how so many people just complacently watch and participate in our countries sale to China. You will have a hard time finding anything actually made here anymore and it is because we as consumers demand the cheapest price. We don't care what the quality is or if it breaks in a few months, we just go to Wal-Mart to buy another one. Nevermind that it costs more in the long run to do that, I want my cheap crap and I want it now and I want more of it than I can possibly use. Wal-Mart does some evil things but only because we consumers demand it. We demand the lowest price no matter how it was achieved, who or what was hurt or destroyed in the process, and with little regard as to how it will affect our future. So before one vilifies or hates Wal-Mart they should probably take a look at their own practices, they may very well find they are the ones demanding the crack Wal-Mart doles out.

The free market will always, always provide for the people better than the government. If you don't like saving money then don't shop at Walmart. If you don't like the benefits plan then go work somewhere else. The CEO should be commended for making the decision to delegate that much authority. The individuals who chose to help others should be commended for doing so. I'm a big opponent of organized labor because it is the corporate equivalent of socialism. So many people expected the federal government to come running with free housing and food because they chose not to protect themselves. The municipal and state governments of LA used that expectation to advance their own political goals. In the end it was private companies and individuals who helped people get through it. The Katrina situation just reinforces my belief that the mentality of entitlement is only setting people up for failure by creating a dependence upon the government.

At which affiliate was the snatch workout filmed? Looks like a killer box!

Yay! WalMart is awesome!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119551952474798582.html?mod=hpp_us_pageone

Hey Paul (Apolloswabbie)!

Happy Birthday!
I hope this upcoming year brings you all that you wish for.

Kate

I'm pretty sure wal-mart is the natural result of the free market.

Just like other economic systems before it, the free market also has its flaws.

The question is: what do we do about it?

#43 Hari asks whether I would impose a "tax" on the $3.97 gallon of pickles for the benefit of workers.

No. That's not the way things work in the real world. The larger question is why the $3.97 gallon of pickles exists, when the pickles will go bad before they can be eaten. I think the answer has something to do with how Wal-Mart has become a caricature of extreme capitalism so absurd that it risks triggering a regulation over reaction. Such regulations could lead to unintended consequences that will leave us worse off than before.

#46 Corey is bang on when he writes:
"Wal-Mart does some evil things but only because we consumers demand it. We demand the lowest price no matter how it was achieved, who or what was hurt or destroyed in the process, and with little regard as to how it will affect our future. So before one vilifies or hates Wal-Mart they should probably take a look at their own practices, they may very well find they are the ones demanding the crack Wal-Mart doles out."

"The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars but in ourselves."

Don't blame capitalism.

Don't blame Wal-Mart.

Don't boycott Wal-Mart.

Shop at Wal-Mart when it makes sense. If you can save hundreds of dollars on a big ticket item, go for it. Fill out a comment card or talk to a manger about its questionable practices. This customer feedback is carefully tracked. You have more power than you think.

On other occasions, shop at Target or a neighborhood place. Most importantly, don't buy stuff you don't need.

#45 Hari

I don't disagree w/ you. Many vendors would be better served not getting into business w/ Wal-Mart. However, I can't say that all of these vendors are "ineffective". In many cases they are new suppliers who are trying to build a product line or brand. At this point, they do not have the resources or name recognition to protect themselves in the industry. They are trying to build volume through wal-mart, but that is often the case because the costs of product development, tooling, minimum order quantities and advertising for the item are so great, that they need that volume to get an item into the market. It's a risk many vendors have to take.

This isn't to say that other big box retailers don't do the same things at times, it's just that wal-mart is notorious in the industry for taking advantage.. I know it's survival of the fittest and a free market, it's just hard to watch on the inside when it's not an abstract discussion on a message board, but friends losing jobs or their business.

Just my $.02

Allow me to add that I agree w/ Corey (46) and Daniel (52) above. I'm sure many of my purchasing habits don't exactly help the cause of the local mom and pop business. I'll have to think about that, especially if I'm going to run my mouth.

#38, 39

When Wal-Mart has gotten in trouble for predatory pricing, they have been selling things for below cost, which is illegal. That's not a matter of free market, that's creating a cost that is absolutely impossible to compete with. The global corporation can absorb losses from a couple stores for a few months at a time, but a local store can't sell things for below cost for very long.

As far as executive pay goes, that's a matter that's usually a matter decided on by shareholders and/or the board of directors. It doesn't work like a mom-and-pop where they use the money in the register to buy milk on the way home. Execs are more likely to get raises by doing this kind of work because they improve company image and thus share prices. In short, I couldn't care less how they allocate their profits, I'm just not incredibly impressed by a good act that required practically no personal sacrifice.

I think an important question is why we are so concerned with "mom and pop" doing so well. Are you prepared to pay twice as much from mom and pop just so you can feel good about keeping them in business? I doubt it. Keep in mind that once upon a time Sam Walton was just the "pop" in a mom & pop. We shouldn't vilify Walmart because he was successful. There is an alarming trend in America to presume that anyone who is rich and successful got that way either by inheriting the money or by predatory business practices. Its just a way for people to rationalize why they aren't better off. The belief that we can never make anything of ourselves is what keeps the poor enslaved to the welfare system. I look to people like Sam Walton as role models who refused to settle for anything less than achieving each and every one of their goals.

I just read the Deborah Shank article and I don't see how sole blame lies on Walmart. She (I'm just going to say "she" rather than "her lawyer" or "her family" I realize she didn't actually do any of this because of her injuries) agreed to the health plan before she sued the trucking company. Her lawyer should have noticed the clause (and may have, deciding it was in his best interest not to inform his client). The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that Walmart was legally allowed to file counter-suit. Yeah, it is an unfortunate situation, but it is unfair to say that Walmart screwed her. She didn't inform the insurance company prior to filing suit, even though they informed her of the need to. She got paid twice for the same medical expenses, why should she get to keep the money?

If you want to know the benefit of 'mom and pop' go down to the local mom and pop hardware store and ask them how to do a simple project (like run a new circuit or something like that). Then go ask the kid at home depot. I'll pay a little extra to talk to somebody that knows their ass from a hole in the wall.

The other problem is when you need some fringe item. The big box only sells the items that everybody buys. When you need that off-the-wall coupler that only mom and pop can get, tough luck cause Wal Mart drove them out of business last month.

edit: Disregard the statement about the lawyer not informing her. I see later in the article that he did. My bad.

#56, Kevin asks if we should be willing to pay twice as much to a "mom and pop" retailer for purposes of feeling good.

I agree that the correct answer is "no".

The real question is whether we would pay 7-12% more for advice, personal service, AND "feeling good."

Some examples:
- My very upscale neighborhood butcher sells homemade rosemary garlic sausage for $8.00 a pound. It's about the cheapest thing he sells. He also offers advice on how to cook it (with chick peas, spinach, and mushrooms, cooked in olive oil and Indian spices). He also sells chicken breast stuffed with a little foie gras and wild rice at $13.00 a pound, and extra lean ground beef at $3.99 a pound. So I'm the guy making the $20.00 weekly order, when others are spending $100, $200 or more. And, you know what? We're pleased to see each other every Sunday.
- I'll pay $10 or so "extra" for running shoes because I know the owner offers free running clinics, sponsors races, and very quietly pays entry fees for kids from poor families
- I try to shop at "The Bargain Store" around the corner
because I know they employ first-time workers from nearby public housing projects

But, hey, if I can save big bucks at Wal-Mart, online, or elsewhere... I'll do so.

How much is the virtue worth? 7-`12%, IMHO. But your mileage may vary.

Caught up on yesterday's workout but did burpees instead of 10ft. wall ball throws since my apartment celing doesn't allow me to throw that high.

Burpees (15,13,11)
Sumo Deadlift #75 (20,15,19)
Box Jump 20' (18,20,19)
Push Press #75 (22,20,17)
Situps (20,16,21)
total:278

Wal-Mart uses opening price points in order to create the perception that their prices are lower than competitors. They take 100 or so commonly purchased items and discount them below their competitors to create the illusion of overall lower prices. In actuality, Wal-Mart has been shown to be only marginally less expensive(3-5%) than local competition when comparing a basket of goods(caveat: it can depend on the type of basket, basic necessities will trend lower at Wal-Mart because more of them are in the 100 or so price points).

I can tell that there are some full fledged members of the Reaganomics circle, but this is not a left versus right debate. This is a debate on whether we want our communities to be overtaken by heavily foreign subsidized(in the form of lower cost and ultimately lower quality products) big box stores. Wal-Mart has been shown to negatively impact the average wages in communities, it is known that their tactics include illegal activities meant to harm the local stores, and you cannot dare tell me that their benefits are as good or better than their competitors. I know, I know, the argument will be "well, you don't have to work there", and that is true, but, when your current employer and 20 others all go out of business thanks to the Wal-Mart opening, there are going to be a lot of people looking to find a job wherever they can. Unfortunately they now make $2.00 per hour less and have worse benefits.

The article was pretty good, worth a quick read.

I don't think I'm just being a typical college student when I tell people who hate wall-mart to go watch SouthPark's episode on wall-mart. It's hilarious and makes a very true point. They treat their low level employees like crap, but they also give senior citizens a way to not be stuck in nursing homes. It's impossible to run a completely ethical business in today's world.

Ok so I gues I will drink 5 gallons of milk a day right?

am a day behind so FGB today:

23/m/198#

12# wall ball
SDLHP 75#
20" box jumps
push press 75#
burpees

score: 257

this was my second go at FGB first was 10 days ago on my first week of crossfit and my score was 230. So made an improvement but was hoping for 270's. can't wait till next time!!

also im using an EZ-curl bar for SDLHP and Push press w/ 75# on it , it can be akward. can't wait till i get my olyimpic set!

I don't shop at Wal-mart. Can't stand the place. I will try every other store in town if I am trying to locate an item before I will step into a Wal-mart.

Why? I can't stand the clientele and I can't stand the work force. I enjoy shopping at Target. I never have to wait in a line. At Wal-mart there is always a line. I can't stand Sam's. However I love Costco. What is it that makes these shopping experiences so different? Why are Target and Costco's employees more pleasant and helpful? I don't know, I don't care but, whatever their management teams are doing they are getting both my discretionary and non-discretionary spending.

Do you think it is the fact that they provide a better wage? Do they provide better benefits? I don't care. My time and my shopping experience are more important to me than trying to figure out whether or not I'm saving $.02. I guess Target and Costco have figured that out and they still have a hefty bottom line, go figure.

It's great that Wal-mart helped during Katrina. But, I think that a lot of other companies big and small, as well as a lot of individuals, pitched in during the crisis.

Now what real perplexes me about Katrina is that why did the price of oil go up when the refinery capacity went down? Seems like a real supply and demand disconnect to me. Gotta love hedge funds and the capitalistic spirit.

Happy Birthday, Paul!!

All I have to say for now, except that I prefer Target since the employees don't look annoyed, and usually have all their teeth. That, and our local store always smells like spoiled milk.

The point of market forces is things ebb and flow. Whoever does the best job wins. Being cheapest is not always best, and is no guarantee of continuing success. Free markets free the best, most motivated minds to improve constantly, and we all benefit.

# 63 Wes

I think the gallon of milk is in addition to your regular diet. If you check out the message boards and do a search, you'll find tons of info. Many people have had success with the gallon of milk and SS.

Good luck.

"Helen", details there. 12:14 PR.

Happy B-day Apolloswabbie.

Hari, give up wine?

#57 My point earlier was simply this, the gist of this article was to show how caring corporate Wal-mart is. While I understand Wal-mart is within it's rights to pursue legal action to recover insurance money on this brain damaged woman, (money set aside for her care), the whole thing seems cheap and small. The timing of this article is just too obvious.

#52, Daniel Freedman, writes,

"The larger question is why the $3.97 gallon of pickles exists, when the pickles will go bad before they can be eaten. I think the answer has something to do with how Wal-Mart has become a caricature of extreme capitalism so absurd that it risks triggering a regulation over reaction. Such regulations could lead to unintended consequences that will leave us worse off than before."

As disappointing as it is for you to see the existence of $3.97 gallons of pickles, many small businesses depend on this sort of savings to survive. The local diner's ability to compete may be very much enhanced by its ability to shop at Wal-Mart.

"I think the answer has something to do with how Wal-Mart has become a caricature of extreme capitalism so absurd that it risks triggering a regulation over reaction. Such regulations could lead to unintended consequences that will leave us worse off than before."

Are you saying that Wal-Mart by its very existence risks "triggering" congress into passing regulations "that could lead to unintended consequences that will leave us worse off than before." Rather than Wal-Mart raising the price of pickles, perhaps congress should be less easily triggered.

I read an article in the New York Times about how large corporate stores were destroying our communities by engaging in predatory pricing, paying cheap wages and genraly driving small businesses out of business. This article was written in APRIL 1928. The company it was talking about was the evil and diabolical A&P Corporation. Which at the height of its power had over 15,000 stores in the US (Walmart has no wheres near that number) and controlled 80% of the grocery business in the US. Today the evil and diabolical A&P Corp. has only about 100 stores in the US. To read more see REASON Magazine Feb or Jan 2008 editions. Remember all large stores start out as small Mom and Pop stores. Walmart started out as a single store in Arkansas and got bigger and bigger. Eventually Walmarts bigness will do it in and it will shrink and another Mom and Pop store will expand to be the next big megastore. Its a cyclical process. The world is not coming to an end, our communities will survive, its Walmart that won't. Walmart will collapse under its own weight.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ enlighten yourselves
those who take the time will learn and be forever changed if you allow yourselves...matrix typa deal.

#55, Richard, writes,

"When Wal-Mart has gotten in trouble for predatory pricing, they have been selling things for below cost, which is illegal."

Pricing below cost is not, per se, illegal. It is a settled principle that the only proper role of the antitrust law is to protect the consumer, not to protect competitors from one another.

I have seen no one make the argument that Wal-Mart (1) predatory prices in a way that eliminates competition, and (2) thereafter raises its prices to a level above what the competition had been charging before it was eliminated. It is both these things that are necessary for the consumer to be harmed.

Put simply, no one ever says that Wal-Mart has become more expensive than the previous small businesses that failed. Prices always are lower--and stay lower--after Wal-Mart comes to town.

feel free to pause and crossreference anything you do not belive..to be honest i was totally agaist it until i did my homework on everyfact i did not belive.

Reasons I don't shop at Wal-Mart:

1. There are carts all over the parking lot that smash into my car. No one is vigilant at rounding up the carts, and patrons leave them wherever they feel like leaving them. In Europe, carts always make their way back to the appropriate place because you insert a euro coin to be able to use them--you get your money back when you return the cart.

2. There are dirty diapers in the parking lot and other disgusting types of trash.

3. People lose their minds when they shop there--etiquette and polite behavior are gone.

4. The meat is brown and generally disgusting.

5. The merchandise is piled so high to the ceiling and displayed in such an unappealing manner that I don't want to buy anything.

6. The employees are not very helpful.

7. The merchandise is not always the best quality.

One reason to absolutely shop there:

When I go in my AF uniform, I spend more time shaking hands of those who thank me for my service than anywhere else. I don't get much shopping done though!

Bingo,

I seem to recall that you have given up wine as well. Is that right? And if not, can you help me convince Karen that it's too much of a sacrifice?

Crossfit Camp Pendleton is up and running! Enjoy... Happy Rest day people!

www.crossfitwarehouse.com

rested sat warmed up

800m row 4:00min 49 cal
15 medicine ball cleans ( form felt sloppy )
10 pull ups -40

800m row 4:10 min 47 cal
20 squats
10 pull ups - 40
10 dips -40

Nice 2 hour XC Ski jaunt with the wife today on our 23rd anniversary at The Balsams resort, Dixville Notch NH.

Ah, Katrina...What a CF. FEMA is always the scapegoat when things go south...Kudo's to Wally world. Here's a link for those interested in State & local disaster planning:

http://www.fema.gov/plan/gaheop.shtm

Bottom line: good preparedness starts at home & at the local level.

Hari:

Once upon a time I had a GI problem that was exacerbated by all forms of alcohol, red wine being the worst offender. Two years of abstinence dramatically reduced the deleterious effect and produced the following epiphany: I really like wine.

One 5 oz. glass = one carb block. Add in the Vacu-vin and I now consume much smaller amounts of much better wine from finer stemware 2 or 3 nights a week. It makes me happy. As I get older I find that fewer and fewer things do. Make me happy, that is.

Happy is good.

Spider Chick wants you to be happy.

It's been a rough couple weeks. Did Helen and the split jerk wod today.
Helen: 15:10
Split jerk: 65,85,95,115,135,135,135
Takin it easy after being off with flu and backache

The people who love to bash Wal-Mart are almost always the folks that can afford to shop elsewhere. These are the people that do not actually know anyone who works there. If they did, they would find that the employees usually stay working there BECAUSE of the benefits -- yes, people full medical benefits! It is convenient for the bashers to hate the cheap Chinese made stuff or complain that they are hurting the small town shopkeeper. Again, they can afford to spend more or drive to 5 different places for what you can get at one Wal-Mart. The millions of regular Americans that shop at Wal-Mart appreciate how the economies of scale (hence lower prices) allow them to keep more money in their pockets for their families. They are not the ones complaining. Ultimately, for all the privileged complainers -- shop somewhere else. I do not care if you pay more to exercise your privilege.

Theresa, I have not tried the Wal-Mart in uniform thing. Again, those are the regular Americans, the ones that appreciate what us folks in uniform are doing for their freedom.

Bingo,

I have noticed that as I cut back from two glasses to one, I have become much more discerning about what I drink. I think you've hit the right balance, and the one I'm heading for. Thanks.

Paul,

Happy Birthday! The only time changing your stats is good is a negative for the weight. Sorry you have to change yours.

I've been quiet about Wally world because I'm from Arkansas. Two things are required for Arkansas citizenship. You must be able to call a hog and have the faith that "If I can't but it at Wal-Mart I don't need it."

Fortunately I escaped the land of opportunity but do have a problem with my wife not shopping at wal-mart.

Surprisingly I agree with most of the posts pro & con about wal-mart.

Corey your description of Wal-marts treatment of vendors is largely accurate. There is one detail that is off. The companies usually have a large capital expense to 'gear up' to meet wal-marts demand for merchandise. Usually an enormous loan is taken for the capital expense. Moving operations to china will not save them at this point. The vendor doesn't go out of business they become a wal-mart wholly owned company.

The Employee's volunteer to work there (I did) There are more people applying for each position at Wal-mart than are applying for each opening at Harvard. They are not serfs beholden to the manor of Wally World

No company is perfect. I'm sure if you looked over your employer with the fine tooth comb that has been applied to wal-mart your employer would come up lacking.

#82 - Garth

Where did these "regular" Americans you speak of shop before there were Wal-Marts every few miles? I can only assume they must have been farming at home and manufacturing their own stuff since they were just too poor to buy things since all of the stores were expensive back in those days. The strange thing is, I remember back in those days, my family was lower middle class and yet somehow we did shop and buy things. You know, we even had Christmas and got gifts and it just wasn't all a mound of cheap Chinese made crap.

You do know that the average person who starts to shop at Wal-Mart actually spends more right? They just end up buying lots more stuff like a good consumer should. You don't save money shopping at Wal-Mart you just get more stuff. The question is, did you need that extra stuff.

This "privileged complainer" doesn't shop at Wal-Mart because I hate that we are ruining ourselves as a country. Selling our very livelihood for junk made in communist country. Junk that breaks too quickly so we just toss it and buy more junk and sell more of our country. I don't shop there because I can't afford to shop there, not because I don't have the money but because I can't sell anymore of this country to China and put any more Americans out of work. I am willing go elsewhere and pay more to buy something made here to try to keep a job here. I am willing to pay more so some "regular" American can make $10 or $15 an hour rather than encourage damn near slave labor in another country.

I see you as a "regular" American are not willing to spend a few percent more on the things you buy to try to protect our workforce and our economic freedom. You are willing to slowly kill our manufacturing sector that is already on deaths door and give away our economic freedom to a communist country so you can have more junk in your home. We all have our priorities I guess, it just does not seem like yours is protecting this countries freedom like you state. It seems like you are more interested in promoting the well being of China and making sure you have a few extra bucks in your pocket, that does not earn my appreciation. It is not really Wal-Mart I am bashing, it is people like you who are willing to trade perceived short term monetary gain at the cost of our freedom.

Oh and by the way, I knew a person who worked at Wal-Mart. It was about 6 years ago and they would screw with her hours to make sure she was not classified as full-time and guess what you don't get when you are not full-time? Why hire 2 people with medical when you can hire 3 without?

I am all hyped up for Fran now! Too bad I have to go to sleep. :)

#84 - jakers

In my description I was talking more about the company that made it past that phase. They either found a manufacturing facility here or hired more people to meet the demand and they were doing okay. Then Wal-Mart demands they have to lower their price point so they use cheaper materials or materials manufactured in China. Another price decrease is demanded so they move labor to China. Finally they are pitted against a Chinese company and they simply can not compete so they fold. Very rarely does Wal-Mart actually buy a company, they just use the cheapest supplier. They are not so much into being their own supplier, at least not from what I have read.

You are also totally on about no company being perfect. In fact, I would argue that Wal-Mart is just about the most perfect company to come along to this point. They have perfected the art of sell as much stuff as possible to people under the guise of a good deal. They certainly are far from saintly, but being a good company in the free market is not about being good, it is about making money at all costs and Wal-Mart is very good at that. I just wish Americans would not be so willing to sell ourselves out for a bunch of stuff. But if we want to, Wal-Mart will certainly be there to be our stuff vendor of choice.

We did FGB after the Running Certification. I felt so gassed during the first round - lots of rest during the workout.

276 - same as old PR

Hari, thanks - pls tell us how the 'double down' works if you commit! Paul

Wal Mart's response was based on greed; simple as that. It's real easy to pat yourself on the back because you're shipping a bunch of items you have sitting around in a wharehouse full knowing everyone and their sister is going to need them after a pending disaster, and then trumpet the positive PR to get arse kissing customers to feel great about selling out the mom-and-pop chains in the neighborhood. In the end, it's based on greed. Wal Mart is not working towards altruism as apologists for Wal Mart would have you believe.

Also, Wal Mart treats their workers like crap. It's real easy to be hungry like a dog and beg for table scraps, and that's what Wal Mart doles out. I used to work for them and they'd routinely underhire and expect you to work off the clock over unreasonable goals. If you complained, you could simply leave and after working for some moron for a while, gee, that's what Jimmy did. It was and as far as I know still is a management policy.

You know, it's in the nature of the FREE enterprise system that you can shop wherever you want, and spend whatever you want, whenever you want. There's nothing in the world wrong with people disliking Walmart.

Until they want to pass laws against it. If you don't like the place, don't shop there. In the meantime, don't complain that your fellow citizens of our great free nation are making different decisions. Dissuade them if you can, but the venom and bitterness is unnecessary.

It's amazing that it comes as a surprise to some people that in America the primary purpose of business is to make money, i.e. profit. It's also amazing that it comes as a surprise to some people that at times businesses set aside their immediate financial benefits, and act as the necessary citizens of this nation that they are.

I see complaints that corporations are acting like people. Well, people sometimes dig in their pockets and give people money to help them out. Corporations are no different. Maybe as an individual you want a higher standing in your community as a generous person. Does that make all giving purely self interested? Does it not also feel good sometimes to help people out?

Should we all passionately desire that the jobs Walmart has created disappear? That the cost of living for the poorest members of our society should be raised?

It's an interesting irony that most would-be intellectuals aren't workers, but seem to have no problems speaking for them.

janeen-cfsc
100 single unders
90 back extensions
80 squats
70 sit-ups
60 walking lunges
50 push-ups
40 box jumps
30 wall ball shots
20 burpees
10 pull-ups
19:18

I was taking off some of my notes, and came across the following idea:

"If you change your phraseology, the effort to demonize corporations can clearly be seen as a leftist enterprise. They want to frame it as corporate power is opposed to government power, itself conflated with the public interest.

Alternatively: The people that employ most Americans versus control of the people by the State.

There is this intrinsic trust of the government, and mistrust of people acting from economic motives, who are creating most jobs. This goes back to Rousseau’s idea that Masters are untrustworthy, and the State trustworthy."

We need to understand the basic Marxist progression. The well being of the People is the ultimate aim, but the People cannot be trusted to pursue their own ends, so they have to be controlled. Since control of the People by coercive Capitalistic powers is the defining crime, and since they need to be controlled, the State must be all powerful, so that the People will be saved at some future point, presumably once Communists rule the world.

Wal-Mart will not--cannot--EVER approach the level of control and dominance possible for the State. People have to want to work there, and have to want to shop there. As someone already mentioned, no one needs to want to work for the State, or want to be subservient to the State. It can be made law.

That's enough for now. Slight ramble, but there's a point there somewhere.

http://austrianeconomists.typepad.com/weblog/2008/03/more-evidence-f.html.

An interesting adjunct to illustrate the basics that many have already covered above. Many great posts throughout the day, thanks to Hari, Barry, and Daniel.

Thanks also to the birthday well wishers - much appreciated!

Jeff G, here's the full report that Cosh referenced: http://www.mercatus.org/Publications/pubID.4481,cfilter.0/pub_detail.asp

Bottom line for me - like Wal Mart or dislike it, either is the prerogative of the citizen. Using the coercive power of the govt to provide special protections for any group of citizens against Wal Mart is unconstitutional, an affront to liberty, and will result in a worse outcome for all in the long run.

Barry, nice ramble, I get it.

Paul

I knew that secret decoder pin would come in handy.

If you apply the right combination, the tumblers fall in place.

It's late in the "day", but I thought I might add one more idea that occurred to me.

For those still checking in, with an interest in this topic, please read this article: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/03/16/state_inc/?page=full

The net is that the Chinese have decided in effect to play the role of feudal rulers, and take the money gathered from their serfs and invest it. If you look at early Capitalism, you could compare this to the British Crown taking its money and investing it in a tea importation company. The money made is kept by the State, and self evidently it is tax free. If you add to this the capacity to tax other types of economic activity, you have in actuality what leftists want to claim is the aim of American corporation: a hegemonic system dedicated to the decrease of human liberty.

As a general rule, you can reliably infer that whatever leftists are screaming about is what they intend. If they scream about injustice, they intend injustice. If they scream about war, they intend war (waged successfully on us).

In this case, they are screaming about the day "corporations rule the world". Wal-Mart, you see, wants to control the US government. Their solution, presumably, is to increase the power of the government. In fact, the only logical end game to check the power of corporatism, is to invest corporatism in the government, which will then have the power to regulate competition, and make sure everyone achieves equal outcomes, in this case generalized poverty coupled with a complete denial of basic human rights.

The Chinese model is the counterpoint to Wal-Mart. It is argued, implicitly, to be just because they trust the government, and don't trust the very people they claim they want to help.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Chinese have little experience in the rough and tumble of genuine capitalism, and they can only bend the rules in their favor within China, although there are no doubt fellow travellers for sale in the US, likely--and regretably--from both parties. Clearly, though, the more obvious harmony is with the same Party the Soviets penetrated so effectively--and virtually openly--so many years ago.

Hey! WAKE UP! Reagan is dead and his vision (or his handlers' visions) is showing itself to be not only disastrous for America but resemble fascistic feudalism. For more on Wal-mart...Wal-Mart Backs Down, Drops Draconian Reimbursement Case
By: SilentPatriot @ 4:50 PM - PDT
Chalk this up as a win for Deborah Shank and decency… props to the blogoshere and Keith Olbermann, who hammered Wal-Mart all last week as his “Worst Person” for their shameful treatment of a former employee. We’ve been exposing this horrendous story for a while now.

CNN: (h/t Andy K & Dr. Hussein Matt)

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) is dropping a controversial effort to collect more than $400,000 in health-care reimbursement from a former employee who suffered brain damage in a traffic accident.

The world’s largest retailer said in a letter to the family of Deborah Shank it will not seek to collect money the Shanks won in an injury lawsuit against a trucking company for the accident.

Whatever explains Wal-Mart’s change of heart, this is great news for Mrs. Shank.

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Ameriswede,

I'm all for encouraging people to develop their language skills. In this country, we still speak English as our primary language. I think it would be fully within the spirit of the Rest Day--where we challenge our minds rather than our bodies--to encourage you to express yourself in our native tongue in such a fashion that a coherent response is possible.

In the meantime, let me ask you if the Deborah Shank case bothers you more or less than the current Chinese repression of the NATION of Tibet, involving mass arrests, presumably summary executions, and continuing occupation of a sovereign nation by an imperialistic invader.

If the government of Iraq ever votes to ask us to leave, we will. They haven't. They still need us. Did the Tibetans get that choice?

Just wondering.

BTW, Ameriswede, thank you for supporting my point. Fascistic feudalism is exactly what they have in China, and presumably what you and your fellow travellers intend for this nation, although the time is not ripe, yet, to admit that openly.

Since starting CF I have been schooled on many terms: leftism, rightism, conservatism, liberalism, upism, downism (ok, maybe not the last two...). These are terms I recognized but never really UNDERSTOOD.
Still don't know where I fall but I can tell you this:
From an economic perspective I am very laissez faire, free-market.
From a social perspective I value a certain amount of equality.

When it comes to Wal-mart I am therefore torn as you can imagine between (1) letting the free market reign and (2) protecting the standard of living/quality of life of people in the community.

So where do I fall? Barry?

My take is if you are actually trying to improve things, you're fine. I have no issues with the give and take of sincerely held opinions. In fact this is the point and the value of free speech.

The problem is when people seek to enact policies designed to help them feel good, but which historically always create worse effects than the problems they were intended to solve. Even there, this is a correctable problem, but the people I call leftists add to this a course venom and sanctimony that prevents rational debate. That prevents conservatives from saying things like "you tried this, and this is what happened. Why do you think the effect would be any different this time?". That gets called regressive fascism, and the conversation gets instantly diverted to the character--or presumed lack thereof--of the person trying to engage in a sincere debate.

With respect to Wal-Mart, if we engage in a debate, the questions always need to involve details. Details can be debated, weighed, evaluated, and rational decisions can flow from them.

So when you say you want to protect the standard of living/quality of life of the people in a community, what do you mean specifically? What is your proposal for the best means of doing this?

A lot of people shop at Wal-Mart because they can buy things that they feel increase their standard of living. Grills, sports apparel and gear, groceries.

To me, the best approach for a free people is not to dictate through law where and how people purchase needed commodities, but through persuasion. There is absolutely everything OK with encouraging people to support local businesses. This is perfectly consistent with the proper use of freedom. We have a well organized "buy local" campaign in my city.

Personally, I like unusual, unexpected, and ideosyncratic places. I tend to support them with my money. At the same time, there is a profound danger in the government interfering with business processes that are not breaking any laws, and whose main "crime" is economic success.

I signed up for Glenn Beck's newsletter, and there was a piece on Deborah Shank.

She was insured by Wal-Mart. She was in an accident, and needed the insurance. They paid it, $417,000. This is what insurance providers do. They pay, then they sue another insurance company for reimbursement. It appears in this case that she--or here family--sued, and won. After paying the attorneys their apparently large contingency fee, they had $470,000 left. Wal-Mart asked for their $417,000 back, and she said no.

The contract says that if the person sues and wins, that they can recoup what they paid. This makes sense.

It's a bit of a ramble, but it is discussed here: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/8199/

I post this in the simple interest of pointing to the fact that leftists in their propaganda are not wrong some of the time. They are wrong virtually ALL the time. Every time I track down the details of any cause celebre of leftists, I find that they have simply omitted any part of the issue that doesn't provoke or support simplistic outrage.

There is no effort to square facts with generally understood principles. It is an effort to coerce facts--or delete them outright--so that an image supporting their radical agenda remains, which will hopefully get legs before being contradicted by someone paying attention.

It is lying, pure and simple, to support unreasonable goals which create human misery, moral degradation, and ultimately real violence.

Barry,

As always well said.

Actually, my initial post, though brief was plain english. Of course you presumably support this disastrous puppet presidency which finds a way to mangle the english language almost daily. Ever the truth advocate, i encourage you to contact me (svea72@yahoo.com) so that you may learn more; beginning with the definition of fascism because you presently have no idea what you are babbling about.
Sincerely, AMERISWEDE

Whoa ... Glenn Beck's newsletter huh? What's wrong Rush Limbaugh too druggy for ya? Is Glenn still a drunk or has he become a full-fledged christ-bot now? I could easily compile a list displaying what an absolute psycho he is ...using his own words. Not out of context mind you, the full text is necessary and fair for the full educational effect.