Happy rest day.

:-( I am sad its a rest day

Why would having 30lbs on someone be an advantage when rowing?

late workout tonight so late on the post.

grace as rx'd: 3:52 (pr by a minute)

tried a new strategy. 3 every 20 seconds. kept that pace through 7 rounds then 3 sets of doubles and finished w 3 singles. felt a lot better than going to burn out from the start.

Yeah, so that paper was 70 pages long and had math in it so uhhhh, I skipped to the conclusions. Turns out people are wasting their money on gyms.

Matt #3, same reason it is in weightlifting. More mass to move the flywheel. Height is also an advantage in rowing.

Matt: More pulling power, same reason why weighing more helps with DL, almost exactly the same muscles

Great work guys! Very impressive. Looking forward to the rest day.

Its always nice to see your coaches busting their @ss in a workout. Good work Boz and Kev.

NH

My chest and lats say Yaaaaaay! I think I may do a little running, however. Three days in and I'm totally hooked.

Picked up a copy of "Lone Survivor" today, has anyone else read it?

m/26/6'3/185

time for some good old-fasioned heavy chest workouts, then I think a will see what the rower is all about. I am sad its a rest day, maybe i will do a WOD from one of the affiliates.

much respect to all

#11: you are in for a great read!

shock horror... people are lazy and health clubs are happy if you dont go. I worked in a senior position in the health club industry in UK and Australia for years and the whole sales process is designed to create the illusion of "if I come 7 times a week its only $x". Once signed up the poor dumb smuck is given a crappy, boring program by a disinterested, poorly trained halfwit.
On average a new member visits 6-8 times in the first month and this declines each month and many fall away by month four.
This is actually in the gyms interest as the less you go the less they have to look after you despite still getting your money.
Its easy to just blame the industry and they are certainly guilty of much BUT they are a business, pure and simple. There are ever decreasing numbers of vocational fitness professionals in the globogyms as they are sick and tired of how they operate. End result? Even less decent staff in globogyms and the poor, dumb, ignorant public get even more shafted.
viva crossfit I say.

yeah budddaaaaaayyyyyy! good work guys!

Great work out demo. I will keep it in mind for when I get my own C2. It might sound silly to some but one of the best things I love about CrossFit is the variety of WODs Coach and the community comes up with.

As someone about to receive a degree in economics, I'm kinda embarrassed it took two economists 70 pages to tell us what we already know.

Hehe...
'That sucked.'
'That was hard.'

oushank: one thing that struck me at my partner's postgraduate ceremony was the number of people receiving papers for research into very well known things (one example was for research finding that sleep deprivation reduces pain tolerance).

At first I thought that was pretty dumb. But then it struck me: in the scientific method, even things which are 'common knowledge' must be tested, explained and verified before they can be validly be referenced as evidence-supported concepts. Not glamorous, but important. And in that way it's like laying good foundations, or working on fundamentals.

25 M 6'5" 240. New PR for grace:

as Req'd 135# in 6:00 flat.

Back when began doing this last summer, grace would have taken me half an hour. Got some weird looks in there tonight too.

My first WOD I'm actually pleased enough with to post.

29/f/110

playing catch up:

CFT:

BS: 185 (PR)
SP: 95 (PR) FINALLY broke 90 been stuck there for 5-6 months
DL: 240 (-10 from PR)

Total: 520 (ties PR)

then met up with Eric (and we got a newbie! one of eric's rowing friends from college) for cindy.

Cindy:

Nadia: 24 rounds

eric 34/m/146: 22 + 5 pull-ups 10 push-ups

geoff: 10 rounds
(great job for his first WOD, also did push-ups on DB since he hurt his wrist)

making up grace tomorrow.

#17 oushank- But they got to coin the phrase "partially naive hyperbolic agents." I bet they giggled maniacally when typing that. Say what you will about taking 70 pages to get to the point, that's beautiful prose right there.

It does smell a little of Majikthise and Vroomfondle (with apologies to Douglas Adams, RIP)

M:"How do we get paid?"
V:"We write papers."
M:"That sounds like hard work."
V:"Yes, we'd have to do all sorts of research and analysis and..."
Deep Thought:"You could just prove something blindingly obvious about human nature and throw some equations in to make it look official. Claim all sorts of links between other irrational aspects of human behavior but don't claim you have a cure. You'll be on the gravy train for life."
M:"Now that's what I call thinking... how come we never think of things like that?"
V:"Our minds must be too highly trained."

All kidding aside, it was an interesting read, at least the parts I skimmed. It does seem pretty common-sense that people say they're going to do one thing then don't quite do it as much as they said they were. I could see the use of a model that predicts overconfidence accurately. I like the link between exercise, addiction, and retirement planning. Similar mechanisms at work... "Oh, I'll be better about that next week."

No shock and horror here that somebody has figured out a way to capitalize on that tendency and is making money by not helping these people meet their goals but claiming to. I bet if you took that model and poked around a bunch of other professions you'd find similar mechanisms at play in certain levels of the economy... You know, like pharma, law, politics, auto repair, business consulting*.

*Of course, that's a gross generalization. That's why I said "in certain levels," in the hopes that it would give me some wiggle room should there exist a Crossfit-trained practitioner of business consulting with a short fuse and lots of Tony Blauer training waiting for me in a dark alley somewhere.

Check out comment #221 from yesterday's comments. You probably missed it because (I think) it was caught by spam filter and posted quite late. Posted by a 2LT DAN. http://www.crossfit.com/cgi-bin/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=3310

It seems a Gold's Gym in Boise, Idaho is offering a "CrossFit" service in their gym, charging extra for it, the trainers are claiming to be certified but don't know what The Girls are, don't have a pull-up bar but recommend doing "real pull-ups" instead of kipping anyway... unbelievable.

Unfortunately, I guess the lawyers get to do the ass whooping on this one. Well -- I hope they DO -- GET SOME!

Allie-TDY-Cali, I want to see that video!

(Grace in 1:50 at The Pit, by Glover Teixeira with 140#, timed by Hackleman, caught on video.)

GRACE.IN.ONE.MINUTE.FIFTY. What's next? Murph in 15?

sree: Great book...best bit of reading i ever did...i don't like books but that one kept my attention cover to cover..couldn't put it down...enjoy!

#20
I went to the Gold's in Boise for a week this month (had a free pass) and I thought their CrossFit setup was a joke. Especially their weightlifting area. I was scared to do power cleans due to the lack of room and to use their lifting platform they wanted me to pay extra. And almost all of the small army of trainers has a CrossFit shift on even though I'm sure none of them have drank the koolaid. Laaaaame. I use the downtown Y and it has (almost) everything I need.

That article was really dry. I never knew my chances of not working out had such a complicated equation. Why don't any of the variables represent beer, french fries, or TV?

no. 22

so much for easily verifiable facts, and their interpretation. the boise affiliate is listed on the affiliate page, so I don't think any lawyer will have a go at it. To become a listed affiliate, as you may read on the 'how to affiliate' section of the homepage, someone must become certified within a year after affiliation or they lose the right to use the crossfit name. Additionally, if you go to the Boise affiliate page, you may find pictures of the gym which does appear to have some pullup bars. There also appears to be quite a bit of other goodies such as rings, ropes, and boxes for box jumps.
now, while I am in no way related to or affiliated with anything in boise and probably could not find it on a map without help, I dare say that before reposting someone else's post you might check some facts.

let me add, though, that 2LTDans and krolson's post may indicate a problem with allowing affiliation before certification. Perhaps things ought to be the other way around. and perhaps a visit to boise by the powers-that-be might be in order ;-)
also, having read krolsons comment (which was posted as I was writing mine), especially the part about paying extra for use of the lifting platform, I am sad I offered any defense at all lol. I am guessing, however, that a free market economy might take care of the problem. People might just notice they are getting shafted.

Good workout ...though this is brought up a lot, none the less. Use censored music ...

And because I feel like being a critic, since it is easy to do.... is it safe to have the weights setup like that with the peoples back to that rower? If something were to go terribly wrong, fall back, and land against that would not be good...and yea, a what "if", but didnt, yet only takes that one time.

Not long ago I visited the CrossFit facility at the Gold's Parkcenter location. It's roped off from the rest of the gym, and other than a couple of oddities, it does have a pretty good selection of equipment. According to an email from the "CrossFit Trainer", you do need to be a member of Gold's to attend any CrossFit session. (10 sessions @ $31/per, or 20 sessions @ $29 per.)

For those of you in the area, there is another affiliate on Fairview Ave, as well as one in Nampa. According to their site, Fairview is currently offering one class a day, Monday through Saturday. (Check the site for times.)

I'd like to provide information regarding the number of trainers at Gold's that have been certified, but I've only managed to exchange phone messages with the person directing the program. He didn't answer the email I sent regarding this question, but did leave a voicemail: Phone tag, and I'm "it".

For what it's worth, I'm going to support a smaller, local facility first. Once the weather warms up a little, local CF'ers are welcome to come play in my garage as well.

Struvey, note the deliberate and careful use of the phrase "It seems..." and the clear indication that I am paraphrasing 2LT DAN's post. I only wanted to post enough information to let people decide whether they wanted to follow the link, which I provided, to the original comment, whose number I provided.

You've made it clear that you didn't bother reading the original comment which I was paraphrasing. Oh --- what was your point again? That I should do due diligence (on claims that I made it very clear *I* was not making, merely reporting someone else's comment...)?

My ONLY point was this: for anyone concerned or bothered by this, check out 2LT DAN's original comment at the link I provided. It offers a 1st person account of a true CFer who paid for and tried the service, spoke with and trained with the "CrossFit" trainers there, and reported the facts as he observed them.

I am not making any claims except that I read the comment and found it intriguing enough to point others to it.

We call that workout 'The Red Herring'...the presses are really just a (short) distraction from the fact that you are rowing 250m sprints for 10mins.

Have fun,

-Boz

WOW. Ok so watching Glover do Grace tonight was awesome. So awesome that I forgot to post what I did. A HOT FIGHTER DOING A CROSSFIT WORKOUT. Too much for me to handle.

"Grace" with 90# because we didn't have the right plates

6:40.

Last week Grace with 95 8:50. So an improvement.

I miss posting! I'm falling so far behind with my workout log and I'm going through blog withdrawls. I've been so crazy busy and I'm having the time of my life in California. I wish everyday could be like this. So many cool people and places. Heaven.

No rest for me tomorrow. Going to Santa Cruz for some fun in the morning. I can't wait!

You can get a research grant for anything these days.

This day is needed. So happy I did yesterdays jerks but payin' for it today.

Grace:
105lb, 3:30

Just want to know if there are any crossfitters that are musicians out there, that would be interested in helping me put together and perform for a crossfit gym tour.

email me:
charles.mahon@yahoo.com
www.myspace.com/charlesxm

i really look forward to meeting some fellow crossfit musicians.

thanks

Ref: The "Research"

What the Glassmans have created would blow these two researchers out of the water. What does it say about a program when it's free-completely free for those of us blessed enough to have a CF home gym-but people participate without fail? It's no secret that millons of Americans shell out money for gym memberships that they rarely, if ever use, while they idly watch their health and fitness decline. The real story is in the Glassman's generosity, the superior information, tools and WODs offered here, and the loyalty of nearly everyone who's ever said 3-2-1 Go! Study that!

Sree,

I'm reading Lone Survivor also.

Nice work on the WOD guys, cranked the time.
Out of interest Adrian, was there any reason for not using more leg drive. You could see/hear that you were cranking the watts - buT I reckon he could smash your time down further with the correct techniqe?
Cheers,
Kam

I was up late (for me) waiting and waiting for the WOD to be posted. I didn't even realize it was a rest day. Well hopefully I can make it to the Olympic Lifting Session at CFATL tonight. Practice makes "better"...right?

When doing Grace, is it better to decrease time or increase weight, assuming you have scaled to less then the RX’d level? For example, I scaled the weight to 65# and completed Grace in 8:00 flat not great but a PR for me. I saw that someone did a “broomstick” in 1:21. I also saw where someone else did 135# in 20:00+. I may be able to do the RX’d weight, but it would probably take 24 hours. At what time should I increase the weigh? or am I already too heavy?

dude katon, I know yesterday was a total destroyer, I could only get two reps at time, but it felt great, in a horribly painful kinda way!

viva la revolution!

#3, #6, #7

Force = mass * acceleration
Work = force * distance
Power = work * time

If your mass is 30 lbs more and if you accelerate equally (which is an assumption from watching the video), you need more force. Since he is taller, he is supplying the force for a longer distance, therefore, more power is required. So being 30 lbs heavier and taller is actually a disadvantage in that regard. More work is done in the same amount of time.

If the lighter person can accelerate faster, than he can match or excede the force, work, and power of the heavier person.

30 lbs will give him a slight advantage in potential energy, but it becomes non essential since the recovery phase of each stroke allows the flywheel to spin freely with no tension on the chain. If each guy was spinning the flywheel by falling vertically with the chain attached to them, then, yes, 30 lbs would give you an advantage.

And weighing more making it possible to DL more? I don't see the direct correlation. If you weigh more, your muscles are stronger because they have to provide you with strength to move your body. That assumes that you actively use and strengthen your muscles. A 600 lb couch potato will most likely not be able to DL more than a 300 lb athlete.

Alan,
I would alternate. Next time this workout comes up, bump the weight up to 95 or so.

I just noticed a mistake in my equations. I meant Power = Force / time

Mark

kirez-
Thanks for pointing out the comment. You were right, there are some people who are interested in knowing that. I'm currently waiting on an assignment and the AF base near Boise is one of the possibilities. So of course I've been checking out the affiliate websites to see what might be available. I'll be much more cautious now.

hub~

How is the new addition doing? How is mamahubba?

No rest for me today for being behind. Went back and did Nancy.

Five rounds for time of:
400 meter run
95 pound Overhead squat, 15 reps

18:48

Good workout. My OHS could use a little tweaking. Also, my left hand started going a little numb on the last round of OHS, but it didn't affect my performance.

Mark R #43,

Trust me, you're wrong about the rowing. Being taller and heavier IS an advantage. I think the main flaw in your reasoning is you see the bodyweight as something that has to be moved through effort, when in fact it contributes to the motion. If we were talking about air squats, I would agree about having to use more force over a longer distance, therefore-> disadvantage.

But in rowing, being heavier and taller means you are ApplyinG more force over a longer distance, without actually having to bear your own weight.

Of course, technique (something both these guys can work on) and actual physical capacity come into play, so it's not a linear relationship. Big guys don't always win in rowing. But with everything else being equal, they usually do.

For the press, weight is a much poorer indicator of upper body strength, so I don't know why they implied the heavier guy should be at an advantage.

I was wondering the same thing as Alan (#41). Yesterday I did 40kg, but it took me just under 20 min. My speed is limited more by my overhead lifting ability than my ability to clean- I could feel myself slowing down on the jerks even though I was still able to make snappy cleans.
It could also have something to do with this only being my 4th Crossfit workout...

Mark R-
I feel like I should get an engineer merit badge after that explaination. I'm the farthest thing from an engineer, so I will humbly bow to your flywheel logic...
pb

m/44/205
'cindy lou who' version on cindy
5 jumping pu
10 push ups alternated with 10 sit ups
15 squats

more than 10 rounds in 20 mins I think i did more but lost ability to count at some point

Chappy - congrats! Really good time, too. Of course, I wanna know when you suffer and flail, too. That way, I know we're in this together.

Mark R - You're oversimplifying the row.

Yeah, kinematics according to Newton says W=Fd and all, but how many strokes does the taller guy have to make to pull the same distance as the short guy?

And how many times is the shorter guy being forced to return to his start position and pull again to match the stroke length of the taller guy, thus making him travel farther total distance to get the same power-generating pulling distance?

So, height is a serious advantage when rowing.

If you've checked out the vids under rowing, you'll also hear Angela Hart explain that you briefly somewhat lift yourself off the seat at the beginning of a stroke, allowing your bodyweight to assist in the pull. So, if you're a lightweight, you get less assistance and...

As for weight being an advantage in DL... Idunno. Somebody'd have to 'splain this one to me.

Mark R.

Go to the Concept2 website. They have times posted from 1,000s of rowers all over the world for every weight and age class. Heavyweights have clearly better times (although, to your point, a well-trained lightweight would smoke an untrained heavyweight.)

Google "crash-b". Their site has a similar database of competitive times by age and weight.

Kirez and Tash -
Thanks for bringing that alarming post to everyone's attention. I'm going to look at their site, but was wondering when QC would become an issue.
Why would anyone go to a Gold's anyway?

Mark R #43

Power = work/time

"Since he is taller, he is supplying the force for a longer distance, therefore, more WORK is required." Then since you say the time is the same, more power is required.

Kirez and tash...
if you read my next post you might note i was eating some craw already and addressing the issue of quality control. I did read the original post and look at the website, but hadn't seen krolson's post. I do doubt that lawyer's will find anything wrong with the boise affiliate, however, which must have followed all the affiliation rules in order to get listed on the crossfithq page.

Mark R, and the rowing discussion:
totally concur that weight is advantageous in concept 2 rowing, which explains the existence of a heavyweight category in competition. on the water, things even out a little because a heavier boat crew creates more drag through the water. still, bodyfat and fitness being equal, taller will generally be heavier. the taller rower has a longer stroke length (with buretto here) and thus an advantage.

Fine work from Tony on the video editing. Adrian and Kevin, way to grind out a tough workout fellas.

#11

I just finished the book last week, read it in 4 days. It reads like an action movie and you'll be ripping through the pages.

The members of ST 10 were warriors in every sense of the word. Thank you Marcus for telling your story.

rest!

Thank god, legs are trashed!

#11 received it for a Christmas gift ripped through it in less than 24 hours. It is a riveting story and I believe that any one who has done the Murph workout should read it to learn about all the heros that were lost that day.

#57 Even with my correction, I still got it wrong. Thanks, yes, Power = work / time. I get ahead of myself. Getting it from my paper to the computer, should be easy, you would think!

rest and rebuild. thank god, i need it

did a group workout at the GoCrossfit in Nashville last night so it wasn't Grace. it was 8 min tabata squats, run 1 mile, 8 min tabata squats. let's just say after doing Mary the previous day and then last nights my legs are stacked bricks when I walk

Comment #54 - Posted by Buretto on January 30, 2008 06:01 AM

Buretto,

it's the amount of weight one lifts in comparison to one's own bodyweight (BW).

for example, a person weighing 300lb in reasonable shape could more easily pull 225lb in the deadlift than an individual weighing 150lb in reasonable shape pulling 225lb in the deadlift.

225/300= .75bw
225/150= 1.5bw

the variable in this example is the BW of the individuals.

M/38/225/6'2"

Another non-rest day.

the puppies knocked on the door at 0530 and we did as many rounds in 20min of:
5 pull-ups
10 push-ups
15 0-bar good mornings
20 extended sit ups (put a plyo box near car front tire, locked feet under the tire and extended back over the box as far as possible)

We all did 7 rnds.

I then biked to work and spooling up after sitting at a light, my chain popped off the front sprocket, sending my left foot crahing to the ground where I twisted it badly.. no runs for a few days, and pass the Advil!

regarding the assigned reading... as I work with a bevy of research chemist PHDs (Piled Higher and Deeper) I know that they can easily string a simple conversation on for hours and hours, what with all of the charts, graphs and cross-references (ad nauseam).

11.6 BILLION! I think I spent ~$100 total last year at Home Depot to nicely outfit the corner of my garage with many of the accoutrements needed to have frequent encounters with Pukie.

I just hope that Coach's cut of the pie continues to grow and grow..

THANKS COACH for all you do for us, your tired, aching underlings!

#11

I just finished it 2 weeks ago and could not put it down. I read the whole thing in 4 days and it usually takes me forever to read a full book. The guys are unbeleivable and the story is amazing.

5k run - 28:10 (PR) since accident
Started my new training split of Day 1 WOD; Day 2 am: 5k run, pm WOD; Day 3 WOD; on Day 4(rest day) I will do a 5K run no WOD. I'll take every other rest day, and do a 5k on the rest days between those. Im on a physical profile from a motorcycle accident and have to get back what I've lost since injuries due to a possible deployment in a few months. Im carrying about 20 extra pounds and an extra 10-15% BF I don't want to carry with me overseas, but i'm zoning at 17 blocks for 3 weeks now. Took my BP yesterday. 115/69. Nurse was like wow do you workout alot, I told her I thought it was my diet(Zone). Any thoughts

I miss Torii Station and I was bummed out that I did not recognize a single face in the picture. I'm sure most folks are deployed.

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

Mark R #43, several have addressed your physics on the rower. Regarding the barbell advantage, look at weightlifting and powerlifting competitions. Which weight classes report higher loads? If greater mass weren't some kind of advantage, there would be no correlation between weight class and world record (or even achievement for that matter). But there is.

Furthermore, take a look at these athletes. They're both strong. We're not talking about blatant differences in lifestyle and training.

Re: Gold's gym Crossfit.

Nice setup, to bad they dont' know what to do with it.

2LT DAN and others: I was suprised to learn that a Gold's would become a CF affiliate, rather like a Mickey D's serving duck a l'orange. But why don't you go to the manager and explain that you're a CFer but you were disappointed in the CF class. Suggest that the trainers, at a minimum, become throughly familiar with the site and the FAQ section and follow the WODs for several weeks; point out the importance of pullups to CF WODs and offer whatever other constructive criticisms you have. Somone at Gold's was familiar enough with CF to decide to affiliate so there should be someone willing to listen. If it's a good organization, they'll act on what you have to say and ultimately you'll have an affiliate in the true CF sense. If they don't, you can invoke your right as a consumer and go elsewhere. Good luck.

#11
I also got the book for Christmas and finished in 3 or 4 days. Hard to put down once you start. Everyone should read this book. Marcus Luttrell does an excellent job with this book. Really gives you insight into what these guys go through and how tough they really are and how dedicated they are to their country. I send my thanks to them all.

M/22/6'1"/185

Did "Ms. Leslie" from the Mike's Gym website

Pullups
Back Squats (40kg)
Shoulder Press (40kg, no knee bend)
Situps
21-18-15-12-9-6-3
17:51

Post:
Snatch 50x @ 40kg: 4:53

More wiped than I thought

Coach is probably going to give out Isabelle or Fran tomorrow and I'm going to regret today

Today consists of sitting, laying, and eating with a little reclining and maybe some napping....ahhhh rest day

#21 - See, that's what's so great about CrossFit: both physical fitness and The Hitchhiker's Guide in the same breath.

I work out at a Gold's Gym. Though I'm a lone voice in the wilderness there the trainers leave me alone. I don't think they've yet figured out just what I'm doing. Since I can't drop, jerk or bounce the weights I think that my max'es have suffered. In the corner of the gym that has the squat rack and a couple of free floating olympic bars I am usually alone when I use them. It's almost like having my own private gym. Most of the other patrons use only the machines. If somebody does come back to do squats they almost invariably do just 1/2 rom reps. The same phenomena occurs on the pullup bars. If someone does use them they do only 1/2 rom reps. It may be just my imagination but I swear that people are chuckling confusedly when they see me doing full rom pull-ups or trying to kip. One day I was doing deadlifts and I overheard one of the bodybuilding monsters say to another, "I used to do deadlifts when I played football. Now that I know more I don't do them." Ha - hahaha!

The gist of this is that CF can be adapted to perform anywhere. You just have to keep an open mind as to modifications. Of course, you can still haughtily look down your nose at the unconverted.

Rgarding # 43:

Height and (adapted lean muscle) weight absolutely are advantages in rowing ... you can see this in the crew profiles listed below. The 'SI' article shows the stats for the 2000 US National Team women (lightweights, a separate weight class are also listed), and the 'BBC' cite shows the stats for the Oxford crew. These are representative of the athletes selected for elite-level competition. The key is that bodyweight is supported on the seat (which has very low rolling resistance), and that the racing surface is flat ... so all the nearly all power generated goes to moving the lever (oar handle) and nearly none to 'carrying' bodyweight along the course. In a comparison to biking, additional bodyweight (cycling-adapted muscle) is an advantage for time trials and a disadvantage for climbing. (Witness the extremely thin physiques of the best bicycle climbers.)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/news/2000/08/16/usteam_rowing_women/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/rowing/4329529.stm

This third is a scholarly but readable consideration of elite rowing physiology, including height and weight information - his work is also referenced elsewhere in Crossfit.

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/rowphys.htm

As a firefighter in the Air Force, you can see how Crossfit is for me. Started with Fran on 23Dec with a 10:35/only 65lb thrusters and half jumping pullups. Did it today with 65lb thrusters and all me pullups in 7:01. My CFT is up 65 lbs from the last time also

Mark R #43, Tony’s logic in #70 can be applied to rowing as well as weightlifting and powerlifting. Just look at real world results. Aside from any discussions of physics, look at the C2 records for 2000m listed in the link below. Across the age groups, the heavier rowers row faster than the lighter rowers. There is clearly an advantage, for whatever reason, to being heavier.

http://www.concept2.com/us/training/records/2000m_records.asp

I think I am looking at things slightly differently than most of you. What I didn't plainly state is that I don't believe because you weigh more, you have an automatic advantage. The physics and calculations are correct.

The things that most of you have pointed out are results that show being heavier directly correlates to being faster or stronger. This is true, but only when correlating elite athletes by weight.

Here's the clincher: All things being equal (acceleration, conditioning, stroke length, time, etc.) except weight on a power curve, the plot curve must increase exponentially at a certain point. Graphing muscle mass vs. speed or weight lifted on the power curve would probably show that at the point of the large increase, the amount of muscle mass off sets its own mass.

Therefore, the benefit of weighing more would mean you have access to more muscle mass; more muscle mass to produce more power than it takes to move that muscle mass.

But, a blanket statement, of just saying 'weighing more means you have an automatic advantage,' isn't true.

As for being taller as an advantage. Yes, your force is being applied for a longer time, since your stroke length is longer, but your strokes per minute will probably be less than someone with a shorter stroke. Look at the power curve on the C2 when you pull. Maximum output is near the beginning and falls off as your stroke ends.

A person with a shorter stroke length and more strokes per minute will therefore be spending more time in area under the curve where the greatest power is produced. This is a result of their CrossFit induced "increased work capacity over many modal domains." The disadvantage is more strokes per minute mean less recovery time between strokes. That is where being taller is an advantage because a longer stroke means more time before you begin your next one.

Here is something else. Say your stroke is 3 inches longer, becuase of height, than your competitor's. For every 30 inches you pull on the chain, he gets only 27. That means for every 10 of your strokes, he has to match it with 11.111 strokes. Now, over the course of 250m, is that going to matter? Probably, but not a huge amount. Over 2000m or 10000m, yes, it does matter, but then again, you have the power vs. recovery trade off to take into account.

So in the end, I don't know if I have talked myself in a circle or talked myself into a corner. Either way, I kind of enjoyed the mental exercise. Maybe someone else will, too.

Mark R

Made up a workout for my minions, ended up doing it with them instead of taking a day of rest.

"Project Anger I"

21-15-9 of:

50# Dumbbell thrusters (25# each hand)
24" box jumps
Burpees

7:04 for me. Burpees by far the worst part...

[ G(àβδb|λL)−ò G(βδb|λL)idΛ (λL)/P(λL ∈ CF
à β,δ(T0, 0,L0, 0, k0; λL) − bU à β,δ(T0, 0, 0, p, 0; λL) = $40

Finally a posting we can all understand….

……..What a revelation…………………I always knew Sigma-x/v on a non-linear asymptotic line was the reason people didn’t argue about their low health club monthly rates………….

But now I can actually “prove” it!

I’m calling Marvin over in “Stable Homotopy of Spheres and Modular forms”…………he’s gonna just freak!

wopat #71 -- I'm assuming he already did all those reasonable things (not only assumption, there's some reason for inferring it.) And certainly, that's what I would do. The CF in Gold's is an opportunity to get more people to the life-changing experience most of us appreciate so much. Instead...

Can you imagine if you were a member of a gym -- before you discovered CF -- and you were introduced to CrossFit by someone who doesn't know jack about it, but is wearing a CrossFit t-shirt and claiming to be a certified trainer of it?

Imagine if what they taught you is BS, or is not better than what you were already doing. I think I can infer, from what was said so far, that this would have been the case for me.

I would have walked away saying to myself, "Well, I looked into this CrossFit thing I've been hearing about, and alas it's just more of the usual b.s. Back to my fartlek runs, sprints and intervals of dips, push-ups and crunches."

And I would have lost the most valuable discovery of my life, by virtue of a bunch of frauds trying to capitalize on the well-earned CrossFit reputation.

Two rest days ago I wrote here in the WOD comments, that someday we will see salesmen in gyms offering a NEW and IMPROVED, CROSSFIT-COMPATIBLE BICEP CURL MACHINE.

I said this because, from my economics background, I know it is the pattern across all industries as innovations are adopted and popularized. Vitamin supplements were developed, earned a justified reputation, and next you had hordes of knock-offs attracted to the market that the good products had created, exploiting ignorant people who didn't know enough to sort the quality from the junk. That's one example among hundreds.

So here's an example of that future I described -- the Gold's Gym in Boise. The fight to keep the quality and integrity of CrossFit intact is on, and yes it matters.

I didn't discover CrossFit when I could have because that slimy little punk didn't mention CrossFit when interviewed about the training he put the 300 (film) talent through -- he was trying to promote himself as if he were the originating genius, and not pointing others to the open source from which he had learned it. I saw that training and I jumped up shouting goddamn THAT is EXACTLY what I want to do with my training! If he had been honest and genuine, I would have found CrossFit that day.

What would I have lost, if I had turned to CrossFit, found 'certified CrossFit trainers' who offered me more of their watered-down piss? I'd have walked away and not bothered to look at it again.

#82, kirez and tash: Valid points. In my 2+ years of CF, I have seen a dramatic increase in the number of affiliates. When I started, there was 1 here in NJ (since closed): there now are 6 at last count. Coach and Lauren may want to impose some form of quality control measures to avoid dilution of the brand. Hey, CF could have undercover inspectors to rate affiliates, like Michelin restaurant inspectors. Top rating would be 3 barbells!

“The fight to keep the quality and integrity of CrossFit intact is on, and yes it matters.”

I think Kirez is absolutely right about this. I really know nothing about trademark or tradename law, but I think that this will become a pattern and there will be tremendous pressure to dilute and use the Crossfit name inappropriately. Just as any gym can offer a “Yoga” class and make it anything they want, so they will want to offer a “Crossfit” class, even if they have no clear idea of what that means. I think the Glassmans, and Crossfit as a company, will have their hands full more and more down the road, and I hope it doesn’t result in endless legal actions. And I can’t see them being successful at protecting the name without the help of Crossfitters everywhere. Thanks for the post about Boise.

This is a long article. Not sure if I'm ready to dedicate my lunch hour to it, but it did make me wonder about something else.

I wonder what percentage of people who register with CF, follow the daily WOD and post on the boards, or comments section actually stay w/ the program long term. How many get a taste of "Fran" or the infamous double 10K in a week and say "thanks anyway, I'll go back to chest & shoulder days". Or, just move on to the next thing in their search for the magic pill.

Any thoughts?

I've been onboard since July and this is the first fitness program I've been loyal to. It's almost like a religion for me now. Truly a gift. Thanks Coach

I can see the trend here. As CrossFit becomes more popular and the number of affiliates rises, quality control will become infinitely more important. Also, protection of the name and concept will become more important as more gyms and trainers try to piggyback on the popularity of CF.

As for quality control of affiliates, perhaps an annual or semi-annual self audit of the affiliates will be needed. I'm not trying to tell Coach how to run his business but I've been through this myself. The self audit could be combined with random visits to affiliates to keep them honest (witness the discussion concerning the seeming Gold's Gym piracy). Of course, the right to inspect will have to be written into the affiliate contracts and a new bureaucracy will spring up around the audits. I think that this will be a necessary evil to keep CF at the excellent level it is at now.

For the piracy and infringement of the name and concept of CrossFit the vigilance of CF'ers is vital. Then, of course, it is up to Coach to go after the violators.

Interesting discussion on brand dilution. I had a similar thought reading this article on T-nation today:

http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/the_roundup_interviews_charles_staley

The guy, who is obviously a long time professional, discusses training protocol very similar to many crossfit workouts. I am not calling him out...he may well have been thinking about this stuff for a long time. But it made me wonder how long it is before we see this all over the place. Reminded me of a link Coach posted a while back to some random guy's fitness website that was just a poorly written regurgitation of crossfit principles, slapped together and posted. Just some thoughts without solutions.

Bingo- Per your comment yesterday, yes I do.. That's why my Jerks were more more of a Push Press. Lol.. How you been?

So sad its a rest day... but I really need it, been doing crossfit for 9 mths now but I just started really doing the heavy weight WODs and though I'm really now seeing results my body is groaning for a break. I've only been doing Metcon's really up till lately, and now that I've started with the weights, things are really coming together.
I started crossfit at the Atlantic Police Academy in PEI, under Insp. Kelly Keith, any Alumni out there?
By the way, what do you guys think about BOWFLEX?!
HA HA just kidding, thought I'd give ya a laugh.

#82, Kirez and Tash, I've been looking for a crossfit compatible bicep curl machine as well as a crossfit compatible thigh master....

I truly believe that the market will take care of untrained, inferior attempts to capitalize on the good Crossfit name that Coach and Lauren have put together. How many crossfit sessions would you attend at Golds Gym before you typed in "Crossfit" into your browser's search engine? after you discover crossfit.com who would you be mad at, Crossfit or Golds Gym. Having said that, it does make sense to do what you can to make sure that the Crossfit Brand stays with the Glassman's and is not highjacked by any globo gym.

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

#78 Lewis Dunn wrote:

"Across the age groups, the heavier rowers row faster than the lighter rowers. There is clearly an advantage, for whatever reason, to being heavier."

Heavyweights tend to be taller.

By the way, a Dane just set a new lightweight record for the 2k on the erg: 6.03ish. He averaged more than 40 strokes per minute during the race.

The heavyweight record is under 5.40.

That's it Mark R, I challenge your terrible understanding of kinetics to row against me, and then you can understand why my 6'5", 220lbs is an advantage. If evidence is insufficient to convince you that your theory is wrong, then you're in the wrong place. Crossfit is, after all, "evidence based" fitness training, and if we were the kind to fall for pretty math and theory, then we'd be working out at GloboGym.

#17, if you're smart this won't be the first time you'll be disappointed by your fellow economists.

Yesterday, as RX'd 6:04

great stuff boys!
i look forward to working out with you this weekend.

Thank you to all concerned about the Boise affiliate. Quality control is an extremely important concern for all of us. And really, we're doing an amazing job of it. This is the first report of an incompetent affiliate I've read on the comments, whereas we read about incompetence at other gyms almost daily. There are over 350 affiliates, so right now, there are public complaints about fewer than 0.3% of affiliates.

Our approach to quality control includes the open source nature of the web and automatic market forces. Everyone in Boise has access to CrossFit.com and can evaluate their local affiliate. Sooner or later, another CrossFitter will open up a competing affiliate in Boise. Those committed to quality and the genuine pursuit of fitness will thrive, while charlatans will fall by the wayside.

We must be the harshest judges and juries of our own legitimacy. We push the envelope and hold each other accountable. Keep the standards high, and make accusations carefully.

#92 Chris

What is your problem? What did I do to you? I didn't attack you. I gave evidence of my point of view and showed how I was looking at things differently than (you) and the others. "Terrible understanding of kinetics...?" you obviously have zero understanding.

I agreed to the evidence, I just said that you cannot make an blanket statement that says, 'if you are taller and heavier, you must be stronger and faster.'

If you can't see that evidence, maybe you are in the wrong place.

Alan #41

Just an idea, you did 65# in 8m, up the weight to 75 and shoot for 8m, next time...85 in 8m until your time is dropping faster than the weight is increasing then shoot for 5m Grace with comprable weight

My two Grace's are 115# at 4m20s, so tried 135 and hit 5m20s next time I should hit the 5m mark rx'd

It's not rocket science. The rower is essentially a power meter. You want more power, get a bigger motor. Bigger athlete equals more muscle equals a bigger motor.

#98 I agree.

32/F/5'10"/154#

Strength program day 2

Front squat: 145x5x3
Shoulder press: 80x5x3
Power cleans: 105x5x3
(I wanted to do four or five sets of the cleans, but I think "Grace" pooped me out yesterday)

Interesting set of topics today-

On the article: I wonder if the local paper was pulling from this article or a newer study when it ran a piece about how most people would be better off doing the single day $10 gym fee rather than monthly or yearly contracts. Of course, as a CF'er that would put me at about $2,670 a year (365 days x 3/4 x $10).

In my mind there are two items (among many) that make CF effective at keeping people working out when most other programs see them taper off.
1) Results. Inherent in CF and Coach's scientific way of approaching things is the tracking and therefore identification of gains (it also proves the efficacy of the program and pushes harder for continuance).
2) Duration. The general populace's "wander around the weight room" workouts tend to take more time than your average CF workout (at least from my experience). I know I get odd looks from some of the guys in the weight room when I show up, warm up for 10-15 and then do a full out 10 minute WOD, then stretch, do some technique practice and then leave while they're still "working their chest". On days where time is tight, I'm especially glad I don't have to forego working out because I can't spare 1.5 hours... instead I can fit a CF workout in and just make sure I go hard with what time I do have.

On the Gym in Idaho: Nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd, right? So, being that the veteran CF'ers won't go near the place now (at least with current word of mouth being what it is) and if the training really isn't that good they won't be getting and keeping very many new pseudo-CF converts, then I wonder how long it will take before they realize the venture isn't working because no one is spending the extra money to see what all the fuss (or no fuss?) is about. ... and I just reloaded the page and read what Tony B. said, so, yeah... ditto Tony B's comments.

# 36 charles
Did you play all the parts for the song Fever?
Very cool stuff by the way. I don't think you will have a problem gathering musicians. Best of luck

#95: "Keep the standards high, and make accusations carefully."

Thanks for these wise words, Tony. You instill confidence, I would hate to err on the wrong side.

I'm going to return to the U.S. much sooner than I had planned. CrossFit is largely the deciding factor. I always have a little twinge of misgiving about Blackwater's & Co's contracts -- currently in the UAE, quietly, and further still; but are we potentially training future enemies? It's hard to say. But -- there are concerns, and that moves it clearly from the white to the gray. I feel somewhat hesitant, even sharing CrossFit with my Russian friends who regard me as a fitness guru and role model. This hurts -- they're my *friends*. But look at what Russia delivers to Iran. And I've lived there -- I *know* how corrupt they are. Why give them jewels? I struggle with the question, What are the limits of open source, of openness? I was an idealist once. Then I grew up, and saw the rest of the world.

I was nursing the intent to build CrossFit Dubai. (Was moving there to develop telecoms business.) I'm scrapping that. CrossFit is attracting me back to the U.S.

Little help please. I am going to Miami for 5 days and would like to find a Crossfit that is close. Rumor was that a Crossfit was opening in Kendall. Does anyone have any info.?

I was looking for affiliate websites that make the scaling process a bit more straight forward. I know brandx does a good job. Any other suggestions?

Being new to CrossFit, it is great to see the culture that has been created by Coach. All of the comments today suggest the obvious...

...integrity!

There is nothing like the real thing. CrossFit is not a fad, and probably doesn't belong in a Gold's Gym. With that being said, how can you stop it from happening? Any joe-shmo trainer can visit this website and copy the WODs. What they cannot copy is the true CrossFit experience. In order to teach this stuff, you have to do it, learn it, master it and understand the concepts behind it.

I think it is up to us to maintain the integrity of this concept and the nation it has created. Don't sweat the small stuff, and let the posers immitate. The cream always rises to the top, baby! The best teachers are even better practitioners!

Yours in the Bond, CrossFitters!

PJ

Since the opinions are running overtime today would anyone care to wade in on the issue of lower back injuries and the advantages/disadvantages of continuing to do deadlifts, heavy squats, cleans, etc. I get lots of advice from the runners and slow lifters on how dangerous those excercises are for my back, (March '07 I ruptured a disc and then had some nuero loss do to a disc fragment) I still do them but usually try and scale the weight. Yesterday's WOD was done with 95#. For info 47/M/185 and I did Grace in 8:11. Not great but not too bad for a decrepit old man.

Mark R,

I giggled when I read Chris’ post. It was a bit aggressive, yeah. But, basically,

Put up or shut up!

I’m 6’2” tall and 200# while my brother is 6’5” and ~230#. He doesn’t crossfit regularly like I do, but I can’t take him in a 2k piece on the erg… I still try.

But, first, my arguments for height and weight were NOT correlations! Re-read post #54.

Second, your argument that a person with a shorter stroke length spends more time in the “area under the curve where the greatest power is produced” is flawed. For 2 otherwise equal athletes, integrate both curves and the taller person has a higher power output.

Third, the video said “should be an advantage”.

You and Chris should both keep CrossFitting and just have a row off to prove your points. After all, if you want to prove that the shorter/lighter athlete has no disadvantage, then step up and show it!

Very good rest day article.
My take-away points are this:

1) Health Clubs and the fitness industry are thankfully only lightly regulated (self regulated more so). Since Businesses and consumers can freely act rationally in an open market in an open commodity/service HC's are free to establish pricing, schedules, service standards and establish contracts with consumers. Supply and Demand keep prices in check here.

2) Consumers expect a value for their money. This paper points out that because people value their money that a commitment made with that money should compel them into a behavior that otherwise they might not consider, all things being equal. (Nevermind that we are assuming that better health and quality of life will come from this behavior, because there are other goods/services which we make financial commitments to in order to ensure that we follow through with them for the supposed benefit, like retirement savings or tithing). Furthermore, the fact that options exist in which they are directed to perceive a greater value in one type of purchase over another should be even more compelling if need be.

3) Assuming that the benefit of the time/value investment is realized by the consumer, two things would predictably happen.
a) Consumers would participate in yearly contracts and attend the gym with a frequency that would maximize their time/value investment. A yr contract is $850, daily fees at $10. so roughly 8 visits a month will yield a rational time/value investment. Thus, consumers should on avg come to the gym maybe twice weekly.
b) Clubs would by necessity of supply/demand either raise prices in lieu of inflation or find ways to reduce demand. Higher prices turns away people and their money, reducing demand within established contracts only chases away people without their money. For the business, the choice is simple.

4) Unfortunately, people don't realize the time/value investment (in the aggregate sense) and Coach has touched on this before. The decision to reduce demand with out raising cost has been made for the business.

5) THEREFORE: I would suspect that Globo's, Gold's, Bally's et al are not actually the ones directly responsible for shitty fitness and bad time/value investments. There is something much deeper in the 'collective unconcious'...maybe a little too conspiratorial on my part, but these big box gyms don't even need to play a part...this study shows that the CONSUMER makes the decision for them.

Any takes on why this is so? I predict the following responses: Fitness Mags, Nautilus Machines, Food Guide Pyramid, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I love hearing Kelly in the background giving the "hey bbbbuuuddddyyy". For those of you that don't know what that is, type in Ronnie Coleman in youtube and you'll hear some gems within the documentary he did a few years ago. Its also pretty unbelievable how big that man is. I would love to see him try a Fran and see how he does. I don't know if he is physically able to do a thruster all the way down and all the way up but it would be funny to see him or someone like that try.

In day 3 of performance menu's training wod's and they are good. For anyone looking to improve on their o-lifts but still keep some form of metcon conditioning www.performancemenu.com is for you. Its a combination of crossfit wods and mike's gyms wod's, blended together. Good stuff.

TripMN, I totally connected with your post and I'd like to add a couple of more reasons why I think that Crossfit is so effective at hooking people. iI you don't mind:

3) Variety: I think that the very spirit behind Crossfit - the hopper theory that stems from the concept of 'broad, general, and inclusive fitness' provides such a variety that it keeps people interested. Nothing turned me off more than the monotony of traditional workout regimens. And I know I speak for thousands of crosffiters when I admit that I eagerly await the WOD to be posted each evening. I'm a freak about it. And just to throw some psychological theory into the mix -- behaviourists will tell that the best way to condition someone's behavior is through random, unpredictable rewards. That's how the WODs function. We never know what's coming so we eagerly anticipate them.

4) Competition - This stems from another fundamental of Crossfit - the 'sport of fitness'. The inherent competitiveness of Crossfit via the Girls and various other benchmarks provides a whole host of measures to keep people interested. I've never been so compeitive with myself. And as a sergeant in the army, I can attest to Coach's '3,2,1 Go' theory. I've seen it in action both in my soldiers and in myself. Competition both against yourself, against others, and against fixed benchmarks ahs an amazing effect. So effective. And by posting the results to these forums leads me to another point:

5) Community - This is evident to anyone reading these posts. Sharing times, results, and stories provides a bond between crossfitters more so than other fitness programs. There's a language and culture to be shared here that is unique amongst fitness and conditioning programs. You really fell like you're a part of a culture -- you feel 'in the group' and 'in the know'. Anyone who has done Crossfit for even just a few weeks inevitably starts to feel like they're a part of something big and they know...well, they just know. Now when you go to a globogym and watch somebody doing arm curls, it's hard to not snicker and shake your head.

Anyways, there's my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

26 days until I deploy to the 'Ghan.

#106 Mark

I'm in the same boat with three herniated disks. I scale the weights, also did Grace at 95#, and am super careful with the DLs and Squats. A few months into crossfit I went in for physical therapy and only lasted two sessions. I was getting much greater stabilization and strength workouts with CF than I would in 10 years worth of PT. I notice even with the scaled weights my back strength (full body strength) is improving, and although I'll always have to be careful about the remaining injury, I still do the WOD's and see more progress than I do set backs.

These are both worth the $2.50

http://www.crossfit.com/journal/2007/11/the_yin_and_yang_of_the_back_b.html

http://www.crossfit.com/journal/2007/02/working_wounded_by_greg_glassm.html

J roCk-

Thanks for asking. Mama hub is doing great! So's #3. We had her on Christmas Eve so it's a good thing I didn't try to make to the vomitorium. We'll meet up sometime though. Turns out I'm moving before the East Coast challenge so I'll miss that too, but I've been in touch with Jason and I'm gonna try to drop in sometime in the next month or so before I leave. Then it's off to somewhere. . . to try and find another affiliate or at least a few other stragglers. I get my assignment on the 15th of Feb and I'm pretty excited to hit the forum and see who will be at the new place to welcome me with a workout.

Did the WOD demo from todays main page. 10 min of 250m row and 7 shoulder press at 95 lbs. Got in 5 full round plus 241m row. What a sleeper WOD. Another one for the box of "awww, that look easy". Have a great rest day y'all.

No rest for the wicked! went for 1rm on dead lift. Hit 350! New PR! Yahoo! beat last PR by 25#!

does it matter if one uses the diamond bar vrs a regular Olympic bar?

Alex

#11 Sree,

I just stayed up til 12:30 last night finishing Lone Survivor. I'll definitely think of Marcus and his team now when doing the hero WOD's, especially Murph!!

#95, Tony B,

Sums up the genius of CrossFit. Someday, when Harvard Business School does the Case Study, that post will be part of what everyone highlights.

2LT @ Ellsworth AFB

Does anyone have any experience with the military funding going to a CrossFit cert. I am coocoo for cocopuffs about CrossFit but I am having trouble coming up with that kind of coin with student loans beatin' down my door. Any suggestions.

A Boise crossfitter that just wanted to chime in, and didn't realize how many folks from around here were doing the WODs. I've been going to the downtown Y for almost a year now and haven't had any complaints except for the one time I was deadlifting with no shoes on. Gold's, however, IS a joke and I hope there aren't a lot of people getting the wrong impression of CF because of it.

Hey, I was wondering if anyone here has done gym jones workouts and how does it compare to crossfit? It looks like the time commitment is greater and the equipment needed is greater for Gym Jones. Anyway, i'm not about to convert to a new program. I'm just curious if anybody has some first hand experience to compare the two programs.

29/M/175

Still a day behind, or possibly caught up depending how I feel tomorrow. Grace as rx'd: 7:50.

#116, soccerman, Trolls need not apply. Or if you are seriously that in the dark, do a search about the Gym Jones/Crossfit debacle.

#11 Sree
I read "Lone Survivor" a couple months ago. Once I got into it I literally kept reading all day and didn't go to bed until I finished. I also recently read "The Warrior Elite" by Dick Couch (about Navy SEAL training) and Marcus Luttrell is in that book because he graduated with SEAL class 228. It was fascinating to read about training and then see an example of where the guys end up and what happens. Add to that list "One Bullet Away" by Nathaniel Fick and those are probably my top picks for books on military / leadership, etc...

32 / M / 240

1 hr of hockey. No points, no penalties.

Well, I'm not too worried about the Boise affiliate either.....so long as the gyms manager has seen this comments page.

As for that so called 'research paper'. No S#!T Sherlock. People pay the money thinking that their fiscal offering on the alter of dedication is actually going to have a positive impact on their motivation....and 4 months later, they're back on the couch watching re-runs of SG1.

I loved that about my old gym. The staff didn't trip over themselves and call to make sure you were still alive if you didn't come in for a few days...unless you were a bonafied gymrat. And I didn't have to trip over socialites on my way to the dumbells.

They let people pay their $450 for 6months, and go the heck away. They also had a smile, a 'good morning', and coffee waiting for us regulars who came in at 0400. I'm very grateful to the couch potatoes. Their $900 / year translated into me getting some excellent coffee.

#116:

I personally believe that the Gym Jones workouts lose the "functional" movement concept in some of their exercises. I've seen them do barbell finger curls, for example, which is a perfectly useless activity for life and doesn't compare to rope climbing for strengthening the hands and fingers. Also, all of the research and anecdotal evidence points to short, intense workouts as being uniquely effective, and that longer is not better. The founder of CrossFit ("Coach") has a real problem with the founder of Gym Jones (I'm not entirely sure why). His name is Mark Twight and he used to be a CrossFit affiliate.

--- --- ---

As for the rowing discussion, yes, larger people can row better times on ergs. It's a truism, though there are exceptions. In the boat, however, an interesting thing happens: elite lightweight boats travel almost as fast as elite heavyweight boats. The boat floats higher in the water and encounters considerably less resistance. Not to mention, technique counts in the boat. *Some* of the top erg scores are owned by ineffective rowers, partly because they are huge.

Started a serious running program again and have been laying off CF.

So (despite being on the koolaid for a while) I did my FIRST CFT today...

270 A2A
135
315 sloppy

720, not a bad place to start. Shooting for 800 now

A little off schedule so made up two WOD's today.

"Grace"
C& J (75#) x30= 7:15
(with 65# last time I got 4:53)

"CFT"
SP 80
BS 180, PR
DL 215
=475, PR by 15, want to hit 500 this year :)

Erin

#107 Buretto

None of what I have written today was meant to be a personal challenge to anyone. I shouldn't have to, "put up, or shut up," to have a voice in the comments section.

As far as your height-weight non correlation, I don't see where we disagree.

On your second point, I think you misunderstood me. If you integrate over the curve, for a short athlete and a tall athlete, without the effect of other variables, yes, the taller athlete does create more power per stroke. This we agree on AND I was further pointing out that IF a shorter athlete has a higher stroke rate, but less power per stroke, it is possible he could make up the difference because he is making more strokes. The sum of all the integrals for a certain distance or time, might be more than the taller athlete's.

Third, yes, the video said, "should be an advantage." Comment #3 asked why being taller and heavier could be an advantage. Here lies the misconception: I took the stance that being heavier and taller does not guarantee an advantage and showed why, everyone else took the stance that being heavier and taller automatically gives the advantage.

I noticed on the Concept 2 website for results that everyone under 165 lbs is a lightweight and everyone over 165 lbs is a heavyweight. It is a pretty broad comparison. Of course the heavyweights have faster times. Is it a fair comparison to say that a 166 lb person should row as fast as a 266 lb person because they are both heavyweights? No. Is it likely? Not really, but is it possible? Yes!

Chances are that if you outweigh your competition by 100 lbs, you probably have more muscle. And, yes, you probably will row faster. You won't find many lifting competitions where you have the choice of only 2 weight catagories.

Heavier athletes will lift more because they have more muscle, which makes them heavier. Their weight does nothing to help them lift a barbell, i.e. their weight isn't used as a counter balance in a dead lift or an olympic lift.

What I have been trying to point out is that, if you show up to an event and your competition is taller and heavier, you still have a chance! You don't pack up and say, 'Oh, someone is heavier and taller than me, so he automatically will win,' and then go home. If that was the case, competitions wouldn't be needed; everything would be decided by the scale and a tape measure.

If your muscle mass to body mass is higher, and you can out pace him on the strokes, you could win!

Is that more clear? Let me know.

I’d thought to post commentary and my workouts separate. And oops, looks like my brand of “soap box” tripped up the spam filter. My Bad. I guess I’ll stick to posting my cutesy scaled workouts, and leave the social commentary to the big dogs.

-162lbs & taped out to 25% Body Fat today. That’s 28.5lbs and 9 % down from July.
-PT Test (self admin)
----PU(2min) 50
----SU(2min) 73
----2MR 14:30 (1:40 faster than September) 184MHR / 159AHR
-2miles with 20lb pack (on road) 20:26, 172MHR / 156AHR

Thank you all! This not-so-little online community is proving itself to be an incomparable outlet and source of inspiration. :D

http://www.goldsgym.com/gyms/page.php?gymID=745&sec=15670&cid=7764

This is how crossfit will meet it's doom. Fitting for today's topic article as well.

#41 Alan and #50 Andrea:

I think you want to figure out the happy medium which allows you to maximize power.
If the Rx'ed weight is so heavy that you bog down and take a very long time to complete the workout your power output/metabolic intensity suffer. If you go very light (broomstick) you have a similar (or is it opposite?)problem.
Divide the load by your time and you'll have a number proportional to power to compare workouts.

I didn't know there were so many Boise CrossFitters alive! My little band has been roaming and training for a while now... Thus our genuine dissapointment in the expensive "watered down piss" under the name of "CrossFit" that the Parkcenter Gold's is offering. It shouldn't matter to me, I am leaving on Monday for work, but it still does. I can already see an apocalypic vision in my head of Boise when I return in a few years, where untrained Gold's Gym "CrossFitters" will be walking the streets with "Forging Elite Fitness" T-shirts on while spreading their own misinformation. I want quality control, that's why I wrote what I did yesterday. Maybe they are trying to spread the gospel of CrossFit, but you can't preach the gospel by only reading one verse half-heartedly, and then charging people to hear it. For the sake of all CrossFit, and for the sake of future real CrossFit gyms in Boise, you cannot ask people to pay for a KoolAid that doesn't have mojo in it - that's just expensive water - and it sure as sh*t ain't CrossFit.

m/172/5'9"/21

Made up "Cindy"
26rds+3pu

re- all the arguing about rowing and weight/height/power/curves - whatever.

Technique - that is what makes the ultimate difference

January 30, 2008 Wednesday
"Cindy"
Complete as many rounds in 20 minutes as you can of:
5 Pull-ups
10 Push-ups
15 Squats.
Post rounds completed to comments
10 rounds. Need to keep track better of count

Also
3 Rounds of
800 meters (1/2 mile)
50 situps
Post time
24 minutes avg hr 149.

look at the bio pages for the "crossfit" trainers for the Golds in Boise.

wfs link: http://www.goldsgym.com/gyms/page.php?gymID=0745&sec=15670&sub=736&cid=7772

nary a one has listed that he/she is level 1 or level 2 Crossfit certified.

It's prolly all good but I'm just sayin'...

29/f/110

Grace

9:25

95# power cleans

pre: nswux2+ burgx2
post: zone meal!

Spud-

They are listed as an affiliate so there has to be one CFT guy there. From what I'm gathering he probably got his L1 and is just doing a bad job at quality control.

Two posts today and I haven't marked my WOD
Grace as Rx'd 6:38

#109, the pie, Heyyyyy Buddayyyyy, That Ronnie Coleman guy is huge, a 2000lb leg press holy moley. That is amazing, even if coach Rip said leg presses are gay. I laugh to myself every time I am in the gym and someone is on the leg press machine, I can hear Rip saying "there is only one press, the shoulder press...... well, there's the leg press.... but that's gay" teehee

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

While I am worried that CrossFit will become a watered down fad that even the Glassman's can't stop, I am also confident in some sense that it won't. Just look around and honestly what do you see. Today when you went on your lunch break what did you see? Even in the military I try to convince people of the community, intensity, and in pristine quality of CrossFit. I too have genuine worry about CrossFit because of globo gym, then I take a walk down the street to the grocery store so that I can make a zone favorable meal, observe the spectacle of obesity before me... and smile. I think CrossFit will be just fine...globogym can't stomach its intensity.

3...2...1..go

In response to all the rowing drama: I think the initial point, while not phrased as such, was this: all other things being equal, a taller/heavier rower will *tend* to have the advantage.

It has to do in large part with ability to transfer energy to the flywheel. If you want to test it, row a 500m sprint, rest, and then row a 500m sprint with a 40 lb weight vest on.

21/m/5'8"/180

I used to play three seasons of varsity sports in high school, and now in college I don't play on any team but I'm very active and I love crossfit for workouts. I'm really happy with my current levels of strength, fitness and athleticism, and right now my primary goal is not to get stronger, but to lose about 15lbs of fat (I'm 180 and only 5'8"). Should I continue an xfit routine, or should I put xfit on the back burner and do more cardio? Any advice is appreciated.

Anthony (M/29/170)

The cold that I've been whining about grabbed hold pretty hard today. Went into work, but came home early and zonked out for almost 5 hours straight.

When I got up I felt okay, so I went to BJJ, rolled 4 rounds, 2 of them were competitive. The last round was against a friend who I haven't rolled with in a long time. He said my game is night and day compared to before, so that was a pretty big compliment. :D

Mark R,
It seems like you spend alot of time justifying yourself and your theories here. I see this alot on MMA forums where people talk about how they want to fight MMA but post comments an average of 50 times a day. When are they training and how does this help them in their endevour? While I am sure there is some validity to you claims, I guess the bottom line is, does it really matter here? Also you started the controvery saying that being heavier and taller doesn't give an advantage and that their is correlation, later justifiying it by saying not all taller/heavier people have an advantage. Your logic is still flawed because they still possess the same advantage! it's their technique and fitness that would hold them back @ that point. This is addressed right off the bat in the video saying it SHOULD give an advantage. Cheers!

dsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsds

40 M 190#

Make up day (since I take the weekends off to ski)
CFWU 3X

5 rounds for time
20 box jumps
20 knees to elbows
20 overhead lunge with 45 #
run 400

time: 38:33
This was as bad as the filthy fifty!

dsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsdsds

You know, its funny.....

Last week I was talking to a fellow officer, and he commented that he was doing Crossfit. I said, "oh really, are you doing the workouts on the website?"

His response: "What website?"

Yeah, "Crossfit" is going to be a fad. Emulation in the biggest form of flattery. Buy the t-shirts. Let coach get paid. People are going to figure out how to charge money for somwthing that is cheap, just like the sliced and diced fruit salad. People are gonna be slinging KBs and all that. But CF is WORK. It is not EASY, and that is why we love it.

Bottomline:

You can do Crossfit, but are you are Crossfitter?

Watch a demo video, man they all have one thing in common, not matter who does it, no matter what the workout is: they are on the floor afterwards. I can't do a muscleup. I am not fast. I can't do 57 pullups in a row. Double unders, not yet. I'm just some 35 year old fat ass tanker with a bad hip.

But I can push myself to the point of nearly blacking out or throwing up. As long as I end up on the mat, I'm good.

You can do Crossfit, but are you a Crossfitter?

Thanks coach.

Shoot 'em in the face.
3,2,1....

I kinda glad its a rest. Cindy and then Grace did me in. I need a day.

jared yesterday was a destroyer, but it turns out i was feeling so worn down as the day went on because i was coming down with a cold or something. I felt like crap last night. Not to great today either. Anyways i hope i feel alright for tomorow.

comment #135/#137

I think the first trainer pictured was at the cert I attended in Oakland back in November, which was level 1. Not sure why he wouldn't list that though.

this community is awesome, in case e'one didn't know
"OPT, please stop posting" is a t-shirt I'm having made. you're on another level, amazing stuff!

J rock, your enthusiasm for this community is contagious! Hopefully you can come to our new affiliate and kick our a$$ in a WOD when we're up and running! I'll keep you posted

#142

so true.. worked with a guy who did 'crossfit'. Knew nothing despite what I shared... he was doing made up circuits. They weren't bad but so far off the mark

31/M/190
I was just messing around with the new set of rings that I bought for the station last week and I did my very first muscle-up and then I did 3 more! I have to say I'm pretty psyched about it. My next goal is to do them without touching down to the floor in between reps. Thanks Crossfit!

yeah I know, keep having the crossfits @ Oki while I'm gone. Afraid I'll make you all look bad. RIGHT. Wish I was there.

Hey I'm doing some research on energy drinks (specifically Red Bull) and how they affect energy, exercise, endurance, performance, etc. I'm particularly interested in the specific ingredients and how they individually effect the body. Does anybody have any experience with this and have any good recommendations for places to find good information? Thanks

#141 brain_pa

Brian, I hear ya. When I started CF'ing back last March I was 185#s, which at 5'9" sitting at a desk all day wasn't very good. I've been an avid CF'er since drinking the Kool-aid and I've lost 20#s to be down below 165 in the meantime. You'll want to tweak your diet and go on the Zone/Paleo bandwagon (check out the message boards for info), or at least look at cutting down your carb intake by a lot.

Don't look at doing more cardio, look at doing CF as hard as you can every time, eating right, and resting as scheduled. If you do that, then your body will find its better balance point of body-fat and muscle. I don't claim this will be 15#s the lighter, but it'll be something better than you are right now.

Cheers and go get some.

-TripMN M/27/5'9"/165#

Posted results yesterday, but the spam filter caught it.

12 minutes

95# barbell
Mixed squat and power cleans
Split jerks

Time tainted by distraction during WOD. Perhaps 1-2 minutes worth.

Ok, so hopefully someone reads this.

Mark R, so maybe I never learned to play nice with the other kids in kindergarten, I'm just making a point.

Whatever theory you have, whatever theory I may come up with to try and predict something different, the fact still stands that there's years and years of evidence showing that being taller and heavier is an advantage on an ergometer. I know, I actually row. Whatever physics you want to write up to figure that one out, go ahead, but I'd make sure that your math has something to do with reality.

In the mean time, I'm here because I love crossfit and thus you're all brothers to me.

3...2...1...go

...and sisters.

I actually jogged 2 miles... my brother in law said i can walk there dog. they have a welsh corgie... to make a long story short. at 3/4 of a mile i actually had to pick her up and carry her the rest of the way... because i was nearly dragging her... =P