1 rep for time: 24:00:00(PR)

For those of you who don't know her, "Texas Annie" is an intellectual property attorney with a chemical engineering degree, mother of two, CrossFitter and up-and-coming trainer with 10 consecutive muscle-ups (after getting four in a row the first day she learned them!). She also has over 20 handstand pushups, and over 35 pullups!

Good Evening Mr. Budding

I'd like to say ....... ummmmm WOW!

Sounds like she should be in a video!

Whoa. Look at her boobs! I mean arms..

She obviously has many admirable qualities.

hey ya'll
I'm new to CF and i'd just like to say it ROCKS!
I'm kind of sad that there is a rest day.. This was my first three consecutive days of it and it was awesome.

Question, it might be in FAQs, but does anyone else do a workout and then CF or is just supposed to be the WOD??

Thanks,
Jeff(Noob)

Just so we're clear. Annie is the one performing the back extension.

kstar

a rest day in honor of my birthday. how nice.

K-STAR,

Looks like you picked out a really good Vanna White to your Pat Sajak self. :) From what Tony says, she's a power house and a beautiful woman. Sounds like another awesome CF gal. Gentlemen, please keep the hooting and hollering to a dull roar. After all, it sounds like she could mop the floor with some of us.

I second Sevan on the video.

I feel like it would be really helpful if Coach Rippetoe could demonstrate this "hip pop" that seems to be a tough skill for the athletes in the video to get. Because 70% of all people are predominately visual learners, I think a quality demo is imperative, even if it requires a 20 minute warmup.

Perhaps I'm asking too much on a day that has a picture of a female with cleavage...

"Where are we at in society?"
-Coach Mike Gundy

What Would Coach Do?

#8 Wyatt,

Happy Birthday..a rest day is always a great b-day present. It's always good to avoid a run-in with pukie on your birthday, unless it is the result of a hard earned night of partying!

thank god my traps are so sore

I think most Crossfiters are probably too young to remember the actual Vietnam war! Sadly, I remember it well. Regarding Iraq and more particularly Afghanistan right now, well sadly I think despite the heroism and best efforts of the forces in action - it will go down in history as an unwinable and pointless war - just like Vietnam.

Alexander the Great couldn't win there, nor could the British or the Russians despite all being military superpowers at the time. What makes any sane person feel the US can do it right this time?

Hey WWCD, im sorry that you don't feel like your getting your moneys worth on that free video. Have you ever paid to go to a Rip cert and get the instruction from him? Or do you only complain about free material?

f/45/135
Nasty Girls yesterday

Thank you Nicole for getting me through this one...

3 rounds of
50 squats
21 pullups/21 dips
95 lb. hang power clean, 10 reps

19 min

It's Buddy Lee day for me today

Hey P,
Sounded more like a request for clarification to me, and not a complaint. Wrong side of bed today, was it?

Sorry WWCD, I generally see the worst in people because I have low self-esteem and like to think that others are as petty as I am.

Good video. Something to play around with today. Hope all is well with all today!

LMAO...the pics that coach puts up make me chuckle! Obviously a good sense of humor......and a real taste for fine women! LOL!

AllisonNYC who?

LOL~
Don't know hwo the girl in the picture is, but I want 5 of them...5 rounds....for time!

(Forgive me ladies....I couldn't help myself! LOVE crossfit women!)

CrossFit women are Super Fantastic and they get hotter and hotter everyday!

C Uz SoONZ

Hey #17 (P) I think WWCD was simply making a suggestion of something he or she would like to see in a video. Crossfit is supposed to be an open source community (As I am sure you know).

I should know because I have one... Sunshine from Palm Beach Gardens FL.

The perspective was a little different sitting in the front row! Of course, Kelly was making some excellent points about midline stabilization, so we were all *totally* focused on how to become better trainers using the GHD.

"Texas Annie" is very cool. This pic doesn't do her justice.

The perspective was a bit different in the front row there! Besides, we were all focused on Kelly's points on midline stabilization (that's not sarcasm).

"Texas Annie" is a super cool hottie. This pic doesn't do her justice.

I know as well my brotha...I TOO have a crossfit hottie whyfe! Crossfit women rock (and not just in looks!)!

BRETTTTTTTTT representing Albany Crossfit in the Green! Yeah man!

(ALBANY CROSSFIT is the host of Crossfit East Coast Challenge on May 31st! Great people, great area, and will be a great time! Email Jason Ackerman, owner of Albany Crossfit at jay@bodybyjay.com for info.
Those travelling by car, there will be a caravan between VA and ALbany travelling with 6-8 checkpoints along the way to grab more crossfittravellers. THEN....
we will be stopping in BATTERY PARK, overlooking the Statue of Liberty for a to stretch our legs and do a taped WOD to prep for the games the following day! Email me for info at justntriquet@yahoo.com~!)

I think that as of right now my posts today may equal 30% of the posts! LOL~

I know it is rest day but I am suddenly in the mood for back extension!

Some good looking folks in that pic!

reminds me that I need to work on my rack position for the C&J's and front squats.

Hey, Brett. Just thought I would say hi. Congrats on the back tuck and the three consecutive MUs. I trust your trip home was safe. The four hour drive back to Houston was a bit of a chore after the cert. As Tony and Brett have said, the picture doesn't do her justice, AND she can put a Crossfit woopin' on your but, so please keep it down a bit fellas.

The article is well written. I have to say it opened up my eyes a little.

My uncle feels the same way as the author. He was in a fighter squadron for the Marines. He never made it to Vietnam for any fighting, though. The squadron of F-4s that left for Vietnam before his was the last one to be sent there.

I would like to see another picture of "Texas Annie". This is to show my wife that both of us can be in shape after she has kids (we do not have any, yet).

I am going to give it a go for yesterday's WOD shown in the Video. Then, I would like to do a round of the Bear.

Jeff (#5/6). Crossfit is meant to be its own workout. But for those who can do more, its meant to be complementary to an additional workout.

Stuart

hey #5, cf workouts sometimes are more than enough. lots of us are involved in other sports. i run and do some muay thai. you have to schedule your workouts around your other activities, and try not to overtrain. i've only been crossfitting for two months and spend a lot time with very sore muscles! crossfit rules!

Wodzilla (17) and Will (24), I think it was WWCD's comment "Perhaps I'm asking too much on a day that has a picture of a female with cleavage..." that got P fired up. I wouldn't call that simply a suggestion in an open source kinda way.

Wow, Texas Annie a new lady to add to the cast of super women at crossfit

Wyatt Happy Birthday!

Internet has been flipping up, yesterday I puked in my towel on the way to the bathroom after my final rep, I was so happy! Still am!

J Rock #22 For that WOD, the longer the time the better!

I am also sorry ladies

I think you may find the hip-pop demonstration on Andrian's kipping video. Part 2, from Wednesday, Jan 16, I think.

I am a CrossFit woman, and generally feel huge amount of support in this community, because I am another athlete, busting my butt like everyone here. I know it's probably not going to get too crazy, but please, let's not put a ton of focus on the breasts of out co-CrossFitters. Thanks, everybody, I appreciate it.

Growing up in the 50's and early sixties, I was taught that if you gave your word you stood by it. If things got tough, you didn't start making excuses and looking for the back door. I was proud to serve in Vietnam and I am proud of that service today. I am ashamed of the way America wiggled out of their commitment to the South Vietnamese people. We promised we would stand with them, then when the war became too unpopular here, we left them hanging. Seems to have become a pattern in the way we conduct foreign affairs.

The feeling I came back with and carry today is of something left undone. It's strange how something that happened 35 years ago is still so vivid. I see the same pattern shaping up in Iraq. Make promises, then when the going gets too tough, start figuring out how to get out of it, leaving the job half done and the people who committed themselves to the task hung out to dry.

If you don't intend to finish a fight, don't start one to begin with.

Well, today might not be the best day to ask this, but this question is intended for the CrossFit women out there: for those of you that aren't blessed with the opportunity to be a member of a CrossFit gym, how do you handle guys at the local gym who take your loaded bar or weight rack when you are doing multi-round workouts like Nasty Girls? I have had this happen to me numerous times since I started CrossFitting last year and it is getting frustrating. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Since Saturdays and Sundays are the only days of the week my gym isn't crowded, I usually try to figure out something to do when one falls on a Rest Day.

Today's workout is a lower-back-friendly adaptation of "Linda":

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

Bench Press: Body Weight
Weighted Pullups: I'll use 45 lb.
Push Press: 95#

I think I'll call it "Lindsay".

Join me if you like. I'll post my time when I get back.

-Mike "4th Day Crossfitter"

Leslie Ap

Leslie, you know that I am a big fan of yours and your accomplishments, and that remains and will remain. However dear, i just read back through all of the posts and only saw one post with the word "cleavage" in it and zero with the word "breast" in it (less mine now). The focus has not been "Hey bro, did ya see da rack on dat braud", but rather "My God, I love gorgeous crossfit women...strong and beautiful internally as well as externally". Big difference from commenting on a woman like a bunch of druken washups at a bar miserable with their own existances. Making a joke tha I would like to have 5 of them...5 rounds...for time, was strictly a joke, which is why, knowing that it may offend someone, was followed almost in the same sentence with a appology.
I think that saying, "but please, let's not put a ton of focus on the breasts of out co-CrossFitters" does completely the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish by your statement, drawing even MORE attention to what was not well covered and hidden.
The pic was put up.......what do you think coach's reason for putting that pic up was? What else is there in that pic to see?
Nothin but love Leslie. When people start getting upset about the pic that is put up by OUR COACH, well, I have to put in my two cents as well.

So sore, so very sore. Thank you rest day.

Seriously, it's like you guys have never seen a woman before sometimes.

Annie is a lady. A very special lady whom I had the great pleasure to get to know over the weekend of cert here in Ft Worth. She has that wonderful quality of inteligence and sincere grace about her that fills the room with her presence.

Annie is also an athlete - a damned good athlete and I for one was honored to see her workout. If she does not inspire - nothing will inspire you.

Annie also happens to be a great cook! And proud mommie of a beautiful young lady. Her lists of accomplishments could go on and on I am sure. what a wonderful lady.

Oh yeah - Kelly you look good too! Foam pit!

t

37/m/6'3"/265

Did Nasty Girls today since I missed yesterday.

I subbed 21 dips/pull-ups for the 7 muscle ups and did 65lbs Hang Power Cleans. Pull-ups and dips with 112lbs of counter weight.

Time for 3 rounds: 41min 53sec

Not great, but didn't give up. Very weak in pull-ups. the last 7 of the last set were negatives.

I may have been premature in my statement and reaction and I might be overly sensitive. Surely, no one's opinion would be solely determined by her clothing. I've never felt objectified by the CF community here or at HEL.

Anyway, it looks like I was the only one concerned that this picture could inspire some uncomfortable discussion, so I apologize, everybody.

I was waiting for a rest day, because I wanted to ask if some folks could share their thoughts on whey protein and creatine. I know some folks taking them, and we've chatted about pros and cons. Does anyone else take these and what have you experienced as a result?

Happy Rest Day

Yesterday or a few days ago, someone mentioned all the new people that show up at gyms every January. I have to agree with the comment about how funny and obvious they are. Getting in the way, doing a workout on the platform that does not require the platform, every treadmill and elliptical machine has a 3 hour wait, etc.

The guys with the "Men's Health" magazines doing the workouts by studying the pictures, fumbling around for the right equipment, then doing some of the funniest looking exercises ever. Or you have the guys with the books, who study and read, do an exercise, and then make extensive notes in the book.

I think the women have the men beat though. I have never seen so many women working out with a magazine in one hand and trying to do an exercise with the other. Anyway, by the first of February most are gone, and by the first of March you may never see them again.

If they only knew...

#46
I second that and much appreciate that it comes from a mature guy.

Coach obviously admires cleavage...we all do.

I don't think people are upset about the pic, it's the annoyingly dumb, classless 12 yr old comments that somehow need to be made.

Show a little admiration, don't sleeze it out

Mark: "if they only knew"-- I feel like we have discovered this great Messiah of health and fitness. Why is it so hard to convince others to try CrossFit? My parents, especially my mother, really need to give their fitness some attention, but I can't even get her to watch a video online. I just don't understand why it is so hard to show people that it is such an easy choice to make.

On the upside, my coworker has agreed to do his first WOD! Anyone have a suggestion for what we should do??

We had our weekly park workout even though it was a rest day... it's primarily to attract new members. I had a friend coming for the first time so I did the workout too.

We did groups of 2 (because of limited equipment) where person A runs a 200 and then does 10 situps, 10 pushups, 10 situps etc until person B finishes his stuff. Person B is walking about 25 yards 4 times as follows:
-Waiter's walk (Weight held straight overhead... I did 35# first round, 25# thereafter), right hand one direction, left hand coming back
-Farmer's walk (same weights, same hands)
-Waiter's lunges (same weights/hands)
-Farmer's lunges (same weights/hands)

Then they swap. Three times through and our time was 29:03

Wow, what's that like two Vietnam comments so far?

A short list of recommendations for further reading on Vietnam:

Street Without Joy, Fall
Slow Burn, Deforest
Edward Landsdale: The Unquiet American, Currey

I haven't read either of the two books the author mentions here, Dereliction of Duty and We Were Soldiers Once, And Young. I've heard great things about the latter, and some about the former. But McMasters and Tal Afar are an interesting case study and lead me to a question about USMC CAP in Vietnam.

I'd be interested if anyone had any recommendations for further reading on the USMC Combined Action Platoons? I've some anecdotal information on them, but nothing solid. I have heard they were tremendously effective, which based on what I've read on counterinsurgency and seen in two tours in Iraq seems theoretically sound.

I bring the CAPs up also because I watched a fascinating FRONTLINE the other week, discussing GEN Casey and SECDEF Rumsfeld's plan for post-invasion Iraq (wfs http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/endgame/view/)

I was there in 2005 and again in 2007, and I have to say that nearly every data point they bring up in that episode is exactly what I saw. However, the context and conclusions that GEN Keane draws were like a "Eureka" moment - his main point being that if you are not pushed out in small units and living, patrolling, and working directly with the people, then you are losing the fight.

I feel that this is exactly opposite of what the most of the US Military was trying to do in 2005 at least, instead trying to force Iraqis to take over combat duty and pulling back to "Mega-FOBs".

The surge has worked because Petreus understood this and pushed all the units back out to the neighborhoods and villages that they are responsible for.

Yesterday was my first time doing Nasty Girls, I haven't felt that much weakness leaving my body in a long time!

Great essay, thanks for sharing it.

As a former Marine who served in Desert Storm, the essay made me proud of what 'we' were able to accomplish before the plug was pulled. Hopefully we don't make the same mistake again. Do your part to try and keep that from happening again. You can bet your arse I'll do mine.

OohRah!

#46

It's not having never seen, it IS appriciation of seeing.

Elise,
I haven't run into that problem because I generally try to work out at about 0430 or shortly thereafter. The people who frequent the gym at that hour have a different level of respect for one another and even begin to learn each other's habits. They leave my stuff alone, don't stop to talk for long lengths of time, and don't jump in to offer advice at every turn. Is it possible to throw some sweats or a towel over the bar to indicate you're coming back? I imagine it could be seen as the fitness community's parallel to marking one's territory on a tree.

Leslie,
I understand your comment was probably meant to preempt the multitude of comments that often appear when a picture or video is posted that also happens to reveal a CrossFit woman's assets. Let's not jump on her for voicing her opinion, which I imagine offered no ill will to anyone. I think many women avoid the gym because they get hit on when they are actually there to work. It's a conundrum we face, and it gets frustrating. So perhaps Leslie just didn't want this to turn into the equivalent of an awkward-I-get-hit-on-when-I'm-here-to-train moment, as well as to stand up for her sister in CrossFit.

M/48/152
Crossfit Cleveland WOD
AMRAP in 20 Min.
5 PU/10 KBS 1 Pood/15 Walking lunges

13 rounds + 5 PU

Sore, but not injured! Thanks Paul for scoring and help.

Random thoughts on the day thus far:

GC #14: did you read the article? Wasn't the entire gist of the article the fact that the U.S. and South Vietnam were actually WINNING the actual war? That a military victory was actually in hand?

Elise #46: Can you assemble all that you need so that it is in sight throughout your work-out? I find that when I do that I can both physically and "psychologically" hover over the equipment I need. When someone approaches a bar that I am using, or they start some PU, I gasp out that I am doing a timed work-out, that I am using whatever it is they are eyeballing, and that I will be done in x minutes. I don't ask or apologize, I firmly state my intent. (FWIW I am a 48 you, 5'8, 150# man; not too big, but I have a big voice). If I have to move about the gym I ask literally everyone around my bar, etc. to let folks know I'm using it. Hope that helps.

Crossfit girls: got my a$$ kicked today, again, by a crossfit "girl", Katie, at CF Cleveland--our local "Sheroe"!

Elise, I put a pc of paper on the bar that says, IN USE. I've been working out at a new gym since early Dec. and it seems the guys are getting used to my craziness but I did have one goofball come and ask if I was using the squat rack, while I was in the squat rack, in full front squat position. Uh, yeah. Like I shared with Gnat, he must have been something because he had lifting shoes on! I also never hesitate to snap, IN USE!!, if someone dares mess up my set up. CF girls can kick butt and stand up for themselves.

Leslie, ditto what Theresa says. I feel ya:)

#40, LeslieAP, writes,

“I know it's probably not going to get too crazy, but please, let's not put a ton of focus on the breasts of out co-CrossFitters. Thanks, everybody, I appreciate it.”

#44, J roCk, responded,

“Leslie, you know that I am a big fan of yours and your accomplishments, and that remains and will remain. However dear, i just read back through all of the posts and only saw one post with the word 'cleavage' in it and zero with the word "breast" in it (less mine now). The focus has not been 'Hey bro, did ya see da rack on dat braud", but rather 'My God, I love gorgeous crossfit women...strong and beautiful internally as well as externally". Big difference from commenting on a woman like a bunch of druken washups at a bar miserable with their own existances. Making a joke tha I would like to have 5 of them...5 rounds...for time, was strictly a joke, which is why, knowing that it may offend someone, was followed almost in the same sentence with a appology.
I think that saying, 'but please, let's not put a ton of focus on the breasts of out co-CrossFitters' does completely the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish by your statement, drawing even MORE attention to what was not well covered and hidden.”

I think J roCk’s response is amazing on a number of levels, not the least of which is that it apparently had the intended effect of convincing LeslieAP to apologize (#49).

Comment #53 - Posted by exqweezme DC

This is true in any 'police' situation, as well. Look at crime rates in the projects in New Orleans a year after they took one apartment on the ground floor, and made it a 'microstation'- staffed twnety four seven, officers interacting in a 'living' situation with the residents- night and day. This from when I lived there many moons ago.

ExqueezemeDC # 53: "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" about the lessons learned about counter-insurgency from Vietnam and Malaysia, contrasting the ability of the US Military establishment and the British Military establishment to behave as "learning organizations." The grad school dissertation of a US Army Colonel.

Technical, dense writing, but worth the effort.

I'm priding myself in not doing a darn thing today. Tough cycle: did the 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 deadlifts and Nancy on Day 1; and the 4 x 400's and 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 snatches with some OHS's on day 2; and Nasty Girls at 1930 last night at the local high school, outdoors in 35 deg cold. Too bad no football on today, guess I'll have to watch UFC 80 I recorded last week, other than that play with the kids some and Zone out all day - minus my 1/3 French Vanilla 2/3 100% Columbian coffee in a 20 oz cup im drinking right now. Love it.

#41-

We didn't pull out of Vietnam just because it got unpopular in 1975...when was it ever popular?

Politicians are usually not the smartest people. So just because they say "jump" why do we still have to say "how high" and jump 15 years later?

At some point in time "flip flopping" and "wiggling out" and other similar terms became popular terms in the political lexicon. Those being negative of course.

were as "standing you ground" and "If things got tough, you didn't start making excuses and looking for the back door" are considered admirable.

but that's not always the case.

Anyone who is intellectually curious will be open to educating and one possible result is...changing your mind on an issue.

I love America and I like that we look out for the world. But America still comes first in my book. Maybe that makes me sound like an isolationist, but after almost 15 years and the amount money spent and American lives...do you fight forever just to keep your word or do you protect your homeland and its denizens?

at certain point we have to be "assholes" and give out some tough love otherwise we will just be the type of parents that let their kids live in basement until they are 30.

Are the standing punching bags in the back ode to big blue goin to the super bowl? I'd like to think so. Also great bruce lee poster in the background also.

And kudos to "texas annie" for having such a great resume per post #2.

Thanks Wodzilla and Will G. Thats exactly what I was trying to get at. I'm stoked about all the free coaching we get on the CF site! I was only making a suggestion about seeing a demo b/c I think it would help those in the video as well as all of us in the on-line community. And when I said "Perhaps I'm asking too much on a day that has a picture of a female with cleavage." I'm only voicing my frustration for the near complete diversion of attention when a picture like this comes up. Especially when there are PLENTY of females that show up in the pictures and videos that are simply amazing, in many ways, yet they draw little attention unless they are in a precarious position or have revealing clothing. And with the cheesy innuendos and lame double entendres, I doubt the women these "compliments" are directed towards find them in a welcoming light. Especially after TonyB sets the record early that this woman is extremely talented and well accomplished in many areas.

"They're suppposed to be mature adults, but they're not."
-Coach Mike Gundy

My father is a vietnam veteran and this fact has formed within my a deep sense of patriotism and appreciation for all soldiers. In recent years, articles such as the one posted here and other books have exposed the liberal, anti-war lies about Vietnam. I cannot imagine going to war for your country, nobly fighting the evil forces of communism, only to return home to find a complete lack gratitude; and worse yet to have vicious, horrible lies told about your service. God bless those who are now fighting the spread of Islamo-Fascism.

Oh, and GC #14, I think you have the U.S. confused with military invasions by countries who would have attemtped to colonize or add Afghanistan to their Empires. The U.S. is not, as liberals will say, an Imperial power. Your pessimism is also disturbing and reminiscent of those who lied about our actual victories in Vietnam, portraying them as defeats, to accomplish their defeating the U.S. Armed forces when the NVA could not. The U.S. still has the greatest fighting force ever known and Americans can do whatever we determine to do. We can and God-willing will defeat radical Islam.

I just have to through my 2 cents in here. I know Annie is a wonderful, talented kick ass gal (she could kick my ass!). You do not display yourself like that unless you don't mind being oogled at, or you want to be oogled at. I am a woman and immediatley when I look at that photo all I can see is massive cleavage. I means nothing to me but if I was a guy I can imagine that would be VERY distracting.
I don't mean any of that in a bad way. I am not knocking her, I am saying she is a big kid and you need to give her credit for her choices. She chooses to make that aspect of herself public.

#61 Hari

Thank you, ( I think. You were agreeing, yes? Or did i miss something? LOL)

LESLIE AP

I understand WHY you might take a preemptive strike, I truely do. There are alot of immature pigs and pervs...and some may even do crossfit. Everytime a pic of a beautiful woman is put up by coach, there are debates. I made a statment in the begining, appologized, and then wanted to clarify how I felt about CF women, and the pic at that. If you read my later comment LADIES, you will see that I am in full support of all the things that a crossfit woman is!

I think when the debate turns into a "boys against girls" junior highschool dance (This is not meant at all toward what you said Leslie, and don't want it to be taken that way, please.), and things get all "All you guys care about is...." and "we need to stick together girls..." "men are pigs" type generalizations....then it is time for me to say my peace and see may way out of the debate. This debate is endless!

Keep up the great training Leslie, look forward to your postings of pain and suffering, and most of all successes as a result of Crossfit training!

It is much easier to criticize, than it is to be correct.

Are the standing punching bags in the back ode to big blue goin to the super bowl? I'd like to think so. Also great bruce lee poster in the background also.

And kudos to "texas annie" for having such a great resume per post #2.

Comment #65 - Posted by mikemyer_23/5'8"/155 on January 26, 2008 09:11 AM

Sorry - we are not about the big-blue here in Texas hahaha - Damn Cowboys!! Thanks for the kind words though about the Bruce Lee poster - hey was the man. The cert semninar lecture took place upstairs in our TKD studio so that is why you see the bags and dear old Bruce.

t

bingo & jg1000

I read the article - sure. It's hard to equate victory to the iconic shot of the helicopter on the roof, but hey I stand corrected. As to the US not being an Imperial power ... Umm not convinced. Surely going off all over the world acting like the worlds Policeman has some small part to play in this. At least the British were up front about the sheer greed that motivated them.

As to winning the war. Are you serious? The Soviets won, as did the British, as did the Greeks et al. That's the easy bit. Keeping the piece is the bit that no-one, even the US can do long term, and you know what? Even if you could they'd still see you as invaders as you look, talk, prey and think differently.

Best option? Say "f*** this" and leave them to it. Strengthen your internal security and let them sort out their own problems.

Just my thoughts and comments, as requested.

Reflections on Herman's "Who Owns the Vietnam War?":

1. The paper is lost in historical and tactical detail, and Herman's straw man summary of the leftist view of the War, which he labels as myths - perhaps the most overworked word in today's lexicon of public debate.

2. A top down approach is, as always, necessary. What was the Vietnam War in the global context of the day? Who were the opposing forces, what were their objectives, and what were their respective risks assumed?

3. Was not the Vietnam War a part of the Cold War? If not, why not?

4. North objectives: For NVN, unification of Vietnam as a single state. For NVN sponsors, expansion of global communism.

5. South objectives: For SVN, prevent North takeover. For SVN sponsor, contain Communism.

6. North risk: Minimal. Potential asset destruction from the US. No territory or control at risk. Military and human resources expendable, to be used as they could be mustered.

7. South risk: Lives and freedom at stake for SVN. For the US, excruciating human loses, and a major financial drain. For the US left, victory meant failure of its Great Convergence Theorem, where the West becomes more and more socialist, and the East more and more democratic, until Peace with Socialism.

8. The North won. Vietnam was unified under Communist rule. Southern leaders fled, or were butchered or reoriented. The West can claim a small victory in that the cost to the East was huge, stalling Communist expansion until it finally collapsed of its own costs and follies. The loss marked a total victory in the Cold War, probably better called WWIII.

9. The US lost in Congress, not on the battlefield. The leftist propaganda was trivialized by Herman. The news of the day comprised prime time TV news from three networks. They barraged the public daily with the human losses, from statistics and American body counts, to as much gore as could be mustered. They'd show autopsies today if they could.

10. The media and the leftists portrayed the war as unwinnable. Indeed that was correct, if strategies define the war. The risks and objectives between the two sides were fully asymmetric. The North spent nothing it was not willing to expend. The North risked nothing, barring the South changing strategy from defense to offense, i.e., unification under a Western government, netting a loss to the Communists of territory or control.

11. A great, indirect victory for the West is the disgrace and demise of the mainstream media. Nothing stimulates technology so much as a good war, and that technology has brought about the information age and the Internet revolution. Dan Rather (a stand-in for Walter Cronkite) is the poster boy for the disease, . The jihad GI will be the poster boy for truth. (His face still looks like a Bill Mauldin rendition.) One can only hope this new greatest generation does better raising kids.

12. Arthur Herman closed with

>>Historical analogies are never entirely accurate. They may not even be useful.

True, but a stronger statement would be

Historical analogies are never accurate. Nevertheless, they can be made useful.

The implications for WWIV are plain. But without a top down perspective, historical analogies are wrong and useless. Wars change, doomed not to repeat history but certain to exploit the weaknesses of the last war. Who are the opposing forces? What are their objectives and risks?

13. Wars are won by taking from the enemy what he most cherishes. That's top down tenet #1.

Someone needs to tell McCain that it has nothing to do with the number of boots on the ground. You need enough troops to win the skirmishes, not enough skirmishes to entertain the troops. We had troops enough to capture Afghanistan and Iran, the territory price. We're on an up-tick again in Iran but not because of the number of troops. It's happening because we're taking out insurgent leaders, turning their ultimate risk into a price. In September, Petraeus reported to Congress that 31 leaders were captured or killed since about June. Whoever decided to go back on offense, Bush (it was his job!), Gates, the Joint Chiefs, Fallon, or Petraeus (unlikely: his Counterinsurgency manual has no offense), hoorah and hurry. Don't let borders get in your way.

This is for exquezemeDC and to comment on the article. A great read on the CAP program is "The Village" by Bing West. The father of one of my fellow Marines was the Sgt in charge for the second half of the book.

The CAP program was extremely successful, the problem, no one really cared. Westmorland was not interested in it and wanted to continue with "Big Army" tactics.

In a counterinsurgency, you have to be with the people and convince them that you are helping them to have a better life. I have a ton of ideas on what could/should be done over there, but the biggest mistake is quitting.

Here is some food for thought. This comes in line with the book "Learning to Eat Soup With a Knife" by LtCol Nagal (USA). (Another good read on Counterinsurgency) Why don't we secure the Police AND their families in Iraq? Provide safety for them so that when they leave their post in their off duty time, they know beyond a doubt that they and their families are safe. Have a compound or something similar that they can live at and be self sustained and then watch and see how often they stop insurgents. I think they would step it up knowing that when they went home they would be safe.

As for Vietnam, great men did great things with what they were allowed to do. The Tet Offensive was a complete military disaster for Ho Chi Mihn due to casualties, but it was a complete victory due to the fact that he was able to sway the American public against being there. He knew it and even said so. If things were different, and more emphasis was added to things like the CAP program or things like it, their could have been a different outcome. Constantly bombing "targets" does nothing, kind of like trying to kill ants with a hammer. You may get one, but that is not what you want to do. Same with Iraq. We are doing what we can. The real question is why did it take us so long to get Gen Petraus in that position, and who is going to take his spot and continue with his success?

#42 Elise
I second everyone's suggestions about not being shy when letting someone know you are using equipment. As a matter of fact, if they are at all in tune with their enviroment, they ask anyone around if they've seen anyone using the equipment in question. Alot of people at the gyms lack creativity in achieving what they need to do and simply go to the place that is familiar.

#49 Leslie
I haven't used creatine and protein for years and am more pleased with my results with just crossfit WOD's than I ever was with supplements and the associated cost. I do try and get protein in my diet right after a workout.

#53 exqeezmeDC

We Were Soldiers Once...and Young is a fantastic book and I would defenitely read it before you see the movie. The soldier on the dust jacket is Rick Rescola, who became a U.S. citizen, made it through the war, and was the Chief Security Officer at a financial firm in the World Trade Center. He is credited with saving many lives before losing his own in the collapse of the tower and has an A&E special about him called "The Man Who Predicted 9/11"

Have a good rest day everyone.

Am minutes away from doing:

1 1/2 pood KBS
30 min.
As many reps as possible

Don't know if it will be a good one. The thought of it feels painful. I don't know if it is a good idea or if I am "wasting my time" (one NEVER wastes their time if they are stepping up and going at SOMETHING, regardless of the results).

So why am I doing it?
HONESTLY? Just to see what it feels like to do 1 1/2 KBS for 30 minutes with as little rest as possible. I woke up at 2:00 a.m with the thought...so now I am curious what it feels like on the body and mind.

Will report pain factor.

3....2....1......(hell yeah) GO!

Leslie Ap

'but please, let's not put a ton of focus on the breasts of out co-CrossFitters'

LOL. I enlarged the image before reading the comments section. The only thing I was looking at and admiring was her arm development. When I read Leslie Ap's comment, I was confused until I went back, enlarged the image again, and saw what she had seen. I guess I just don't look in that area on the crossfit women. I am just amazed by their performance and strong-body appearance.

J roCK-
go for it! i love your enthusiasm! prompting me to get up off my patookus and do some handstands!

After a week of a DL PR, snatch PR, Nancy, 4 x 400 and Nasty Girls, I thought my back had had enough. I was wrong. Visited CCTJOEY at Chaos Compound today and he decided that we should do Christine (500m row, body wt DL x 12, 21 box jumps for those unfamiliar with her).

12:05
My back thanks you Joey.
I also got to meet the new addition to the CHAOS family, Hurley Pood. I'll take credit for the second half of her name. haha
Cheers

31/f/159/68"

finally made up my deads...

cfwux2
2x10 oly bar DLs
1x5 at 155

187-198-209(f)-209(bad form)-209(great form!)-221(ugly) -221 (less ugly)

post: 3x5 KTE

same as CFT. i haven't worked any deads since then. my goal is 250 this year. i'll get it. oh yeah, i'll get it. also, discussed with head CSCS to help me with my oly form. very excited about that!

ck

Though it only shows up sporadically, I think there is an ongoing debate about whether or not some of the photographs and interviews have portrayed women in a positive light.

There are arguments to be made in defense pictures like today’s that include:

1. These pictures in general capture a sense of what it’s like to be at a CrossFit Cert. If women with low-cut tops are doing a back extension that is something you might see. If you take all the pictures ever posted from all the Certs, it’s not like there is a disproportional number of these types of shots.

2. These women are real CrossFitters. There is no reason they should not be included in the community as they are and as they dress. For example, if someone thinks that tattoos are a bad idea, that doesn’t mean CrossFit should stop photographing athletes with tattoos. Some people may be uncomfortable with women who dress revealingly, but CrossFit is not devoted to meeting some ideal about how the world ought to be.

There are arguments to be made against pictures like today’s that include:

1. It undercuts the attributes of the women that are most admired by the CrossFit Community, namely their fitness-related accomplishments. For example, it is not a coincidence that for the purpose of the demonstration, the participants were viewing the exercise from an entirely different angle.

2. It invariable leads to comments focusing on those parts of the woman’s anatomy that were not developed by either diet or CrossFit.

In general, I think those who are the most uncomfortable are those who are applying a standard they have experienced in academic and workplace environments. For example, if this were a website for a corporation, today’s picture would never had made it on. The same is true if this were a university. But CrossFit is neither of these things. The notions of a “hostile work environment” are simply not applicable here.

In school and in the workplace, rules and laws are forced upon us. At CrossFit, the only real rule is to keep it if it works and discard it if it doesn’t.

Made up yesterday's WOD:

NASTY GIRLS: 9:41 as Rx'd

First thing I saw was the Albany shirt.
I thought some of the comments objectified another athlete, which brings me down.
And I have not apologized.

I did, however, start a downward spiral of a conversation. Way to go, Leslie..

"Lindsay"

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1
BW Bench Press: 65# Dumbbells
Should Press: 95#
Weighted Pullups: 45#

29:47

Good work out.

26/6'/165#

- Mike

Smile Leslie - it is an awesome DAY! Life is good young lady! ;) We all here support CF!!!!
Long live CF and Annies pesto chicken - hell ya!

t

400m walking lunge
....................13:56mins..............
(rubberized track at local high school: priceless)

Leslie Leslie Leslie....
You did NO such thing! Nothin but the L grl..nothin but the L! hehe

breathe in breathe out and move on.

I noticed her guns!

I don't think the issue was the apology, but rather that someone might feel compelled to apologize for stating an opinion as a result of comments that further solidified the point made in the first place. I believe Hari was indeed disagreeing with Justin's methods.

#72 - J roCk
That sounds like fun actually. Some of my favorite workouts (I belive from the Santa Cruz site) are
Every min on the min for 30 min
15 DL OR 12 Thrusters
I have tried them both, the DL version several times and LOVE it. I get a HUGE rush from doing that one.

I read an earlier post of yours about the mile of lunges. Excellent! I am going to keep that one in mind for a great "at the beach workout".

Erin

33 m 191

1 1/2 pood KBS
30 min.
As Many Reps As Possible (also refered to as AMRAP)

492 KBS as rx'd

First time ever doing this, so I guess I can say it is a PR!
That was tough...enjoyable, painful, but tough! WOW though, midline to the flippin hill! THAT felt so good! And i can't remember the last time my traps have been this pumped! Opened the blinds in the studio, lcked the front door, cranked Korn, took off the shirt...and glanced at passerby's as they wondered what in God's name this tatoo'd madman was doing himself! (frankly, I looked in the mirror and kindof wondered the same thing!LOL)
It was awesome! Try it!

SHANNON~ Get of your tookas and get a movin'! You've got a built in cheering section (little crossfitlettes)....HOP TOO HOT FOOT!LOL!

Have a great day everyone!

leslie - smile girl. life is good and we all here support CF!

rock hard young lady and worry not.

t

ps-Tomorrow's WOD for me is going to be:

Trying to get Theresa to say something positive about something I have said.

Theresa, I am liking you more the more you dislike me! LOL!

The saddest part of the vietnam war was how many vietnamese were killed.

Total U.S deaths were around 58 000. All soldiers!

Some where around 1 000 000 veitnamese CIVILIANS were killed. Along with another 2 million or more soldiers.

How could the U.S be fighting for the feedom of the veitnanese people if it had to bomb , kill and imprision them for fear that anyone could be the enemy.

Somebody wrote that they should have finished what hey started or not started at all. Well your half right. They shouldn't have started at all, and the smartest thing they did was pull out.

I think it should be illegal for any U.S company to make any money off of war. All procedes of war should be legally deemed to go to charites or social programs. That would sure solve a lot of socio-economic problems.

I have a feeling the U.S would be in less wars if here was no financial gain to be made by very influental U.S companies.

I don't dislike you at all, Justin! I believe Hari was the one who commented on what you said...not me.

Did "Nasty Girl" today but posted results yesterday to keep them in sync for when they come up again.

I just read coaches article on garage gyms versus commercial gyms. That is garage gyms - good; commercial gyms - bad.

But there is a third gym that I have found to be pretty good, that is community centre gyms. Mine, for example, has lots of free weights, both barbells and bumbells, olympic bars, bumper plates and platform, squat cage, Concept II rowers, gravitron, treadmills, spin bikes, basketball court, etc. Perhaps it's because these things cost less that big isolation stations, and they are dealing with community tax dollars. Anyways, I was wondering what others think about their community centre gyms.

On the subject of historical analogies, there is a most excellent one right before our eyes, and that is between the successful effort in Vietnam of the Democrat Party, the Left and their allies in the MSM to give a wartime enemy a victory they could not win on the battlefield, and the *exact same* but so far unsuccessful effort in the Iraq war.

The Democrats, the Left, and the MSM have resorted to every weapon in their arsenal in an effort to give a victory to the jihadis in Iraq. The Democrats and the jihadis have failed because one stubborn and courageous man refused to accept the counsels of defeat, retreat and surrender. “I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me.” So sayeth George W. Bush.

Best regards,

theresa, bingo, U'I, and gmoni -
Thanks for the advice - I'll give your suggestions a shot this coming week and see how things go.

I would agree with being the world's policemen. I don't like it either. I do take note of the Chinese. They are not isolationist in regards to business matters, nor to they spend much time or money adventuring. I don't see anyone messing with them. At all. I would think that to do so would cause retaliation without end. My point earlier is that you don't start something you don't intend to finish.

Quitting sends a strong message to those that would do us harm. The belief is now that we don't have the stomach for a protracted fight. The press corp did more to win the war for the North than their soldiers did. They were able to effectively turn public opinion. The North Vietnamese didn't win the war, we quit. Had we done the same in Korea, things would have looked much different there today as well.

Why is it that so little attention is paid to the Korean Conflict in discussions such as today's? Were not the goals of each side, communist North and democratic South, similar enough to Viet Nam? Was not the outcome in Korea deemed a success by the West? Was this not the "working model" for the American government officials in early and mid-Viet Nam? Why did the U.S. abandon its Viet Nam mission at the very juncture when transitioning the conflict to one in which an end-game similar to Korea was at hand? Why, with a greater number of casualties, did the U.S. not lose its resolve in Korea? Would a result in Viet Nam that echoed Korea (strict partitioning, a thriving capitalist economy, elected government, small residual U.S. Military presence) have been a failure? And how is the result of the Korean Conflict similar to the British imperialism of the 19th and 20th centuries, such that it is an example of American imperialism? If such a result had occurred n Viet Nam or occurs in Iraq, how would this represent American imperialism, given any reasonable defintion of the word?

I believe that both the article, however inelegantly, and Jeff Glassman offer opinions on who is to blame for abandoning this outcome precisely at the point where it became possible.

And so I ask, why are we talking about Viet Nam? Why are we not talking about Korea?

c'mon, that shot was just too gratuitous. Personally I'd rather see her handstand push ups or her muscle ups and her smile after showing that stuff off. give the obvious photos a rest please. this one was just TOO juvenile.
otherwise a very interesting discussion so far.

In comparison, how would you guys feel if a woman or another GUY started commenting on your "package" or "unit" while at the gym? Would you like that kind of attention? Just food for thought.

did nasty girls today as rx'd

m/34/173

7:43 (PR)

Ah Leslie- no biggy. You stated an opinion and that was all. Nothing wrong with that. I would not spend one second worrying about it.

On that note- you can tell me to STOP freakin worrying about the stupid scale. I am ready to toss the thing out the window. All over a couple lbs which could be water weight, etc, or even muscle. :)
Erin

My father is a vietnam veteran and this fact has formed within my a deep sense of patriotism and appreciation for all soldiers. In recent years, articles such as the one posted here and other books have exposed the liberal, anti-war lies about Vietnam. I cannot imagine going to war for your country, nobly fighting the evil forces of communism, only to return home to find a complete lack gratitude; and worse yet to have vicious, horrible lies told about your service. God bless those who are now fighting the spread of Islamo-Fascism.......

Your right most people including me could care less about what people sacrificed in the past. Respect to your father and whoever serves in war but in the end it's their choice no one says to go to war and protect us. when i see some 'terroist' at my door or bothering my family ill take care of it. people might say its sad but even though i was born here i could care less how they treat our country cuz in the end 1000 or even 100 years from now will it matter? every1 will die so people got to grow some balls and live the life they want then people will stop bothering other people about what to do and what not to do and those people won't be upset of other people being on their case and won't feel like getting 'revenge'. Everyone justs wants to be happy. give yourself a chance and everyone else

Elise, keep a sweaty, stinky, damp towel with you on the days that you do multi station work. Leave said towel on the bar, most people get the point. A nice chalk mess helps too.

Had a great group WOD 2day @ Crossfit Snohomish, Tabata Monster Mash

2 rounds - 180
3rd round - 99

Thanx to everyone who participated, let's do more!

Leslie Ap, After 2 1/2 years of crossfit my wife finally asked me to train her. I'm 47 she is 44. I never once pressured her into trying it. I let the results of the program speak for itself. She would always get bothered by strangers asking me how I stayed in shape and would sit there and roll her eyes while I once again explained the virtues of Crossfit and the Zone diet.

The final straw was when my 34 year old neighbor (my wife's good friend) asked me to train her. About a week later my wife told me she would like to give it a try. We have been at it for almost a month now. Unfortunatley, she isn't seeing the results I experienced but, she is staying with it. One of the greatest things to come of it is that my 6 year old daughter will work out with her. After the workout is over my daughter will ask me to train her again. She loves my rings and loves to do ring pullups and KTE's.

"If you build it they will come"

No rest day, rested Thurday. Did CFPC's "Me Love You Long Time" subbing DB for KB and 35# bar for 35# sandbag.

Run 1/4 mile
50 KB Snatch 25/25 (44 lbs)
50 D-Ball Slam (25)
50 Calories Rowing
Run ½ mile
40 KB Swings (44 lbs)
40 Pullups
40 Push Press (75)
Run ¾ mile
30 Ring Pushups
30 Hang Power Cleans (95)
30 Wall Ball
Run 1 mile
20 DB Thrusters (35)
20 Sandbag Clean and Jerk (35)
20 2-hand KB Push Press (44)

1:02:09 Ouch.

44/m/167

38M/175

First day I felt like testing the stitches in my face since surgery on Wednesday.

21-15-9 not timed
KB Swings (1 pood)
Pull Ups (all were done strict with the negative on the way down)

Just got two new KB's for the garage gym and felt like playing around a little. So after the workout, I cranked out some KB snatches and worked on my form for a while.

Stay safe all

24yo/f/5'5"/140

in8girl:

Well, throwing the scale away would only be a disservice to tracking how your training effects your body. BUT, though it's only natural to stress when pounds come on and mysteriously stay, I would say you should really just focus on how (if at all) the change affects you performance. Sometimes a number is just that.

I am accustomed to shrugging off the scale, though, because if you notice the stats, I tend to be about ten pounds heavier than others my height. I am in peak performance mode, despite what the scale tells me!

#69:
"Whoever decided to go back on offense, Bush (it was his job!), Gates, the Joint Chiefs, Fallon, or Petraeus (unlikely: his Counterinsurgency manual has no offense), hoorah and hurry."

Counterinsurgency Field Manual:
1-1 (the first page...): "Achieving victory still depends on a group's ability to mobilize support for its political interests [...] and to generate enough violence to achieve political consequences."

5-59 (providing a sample recommended approach): "Clear is a tactical mission that requires the commander to remove all enemy forces and eliminate organized resistance in an assigned area. The force does this by destroying, capturing, or forcing the withdrawal of insurgent combatants."

And plenty of others.

Would you care to explain the comment r.e. Petraeus, and specifically how these elements do not constitute offence?

I would contend that we have been on the offensive to the extent possible since we arrived in Iraq. The additional "troops on the ground" provided by the surge, along with improved methods as discussed in the field manual, are allowing more effective offence to take place. If someone who's actually been there wants to shoot me down here, I would appreciate the opportunity to learn something.

I need a real rest day. For the 3rd rest day in a row Crossfit outside Minnesota didn't cooperate. Shoveled a couple inches of snow. But, atleast this time the wind chill wasn't below -10F

Man thats right, all we needed was one last "surge" to win Vietnam. Its the damn liberals that made us pull out before all out victory! See, revisionism can be fun and informative. Next time you see a Vietnam vet ask him if he thinks we had almost won. Since we do not seem to have a Vietnam vet handy, instead lets take a look at which republican candidate has received the most campaign funding from current US servicemen and women. Schnikes! thats right, its Ron Paul, the guy who thinks we are losing all our current wars. Just one more surge should do the trick though. Right?

#94, Eeek!, writes,

"In comparison, how would you guys feel if a woman or another GUY started commenting on your 'package' or 'unit' while at the gym? Would you like that kind of attention? Just food for thought."

I think that men who wish to minimize that sort of unwanted attention at the gym tend to avoid either revealing or emphasizing those parts of their anatomy.

#69
At best such an understanding will mean that America continue to be misunderstood, reviled, hated and isolated. Ah dear.

What any of this has to with fighting terrorism is beyond me...
Iran/Iraq largely secular folk until... Yep you guessed it.

Same reason Vietnam had nothing much to do with the domino theory. The north hated the Chinese and would die to a man, woman and child before they let their dictatorship spread south. Plus, Ho was a great admirer of the USA, he even included parts of the declaration of independence in their constitution. (for what its worth). The American's hitched their wagon to the corrupt elite of the south, so detested by the Vietnamese people and an easy target for the populist rhetoric of the north.

Believe me I am no fan, nor will I tolerate, any form of dictatorship or extremism but this hawkish attitude is just that - extremist. These societies are not like America's - there will not be a starbucks on every corner just because the humvees and cruise missiles are in town. The oddity of American federalism came at the expense of an indigenous nation, slavery and through the power of the gun. Crikey, exactly what is occurring in Iraq, America experienced in its own war of independence: Guerilla warfare, terrorize the occupier and get the English (very moderate and progressive at the time) out! The regions of the middle east will have their own odd system in turn. Emphasis here on "their own". Not ours, theirs, based on their culture, their history. Not Texas'!

I digress.

Let's just focus our attention where these jihadist lunatics come from: Saudi Arabia, and the mountains on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan - where in all our wisdom we respectively send: Our military technology, and "tens" of soldiers to the Korengal Valley to be used as target practice by the Taliban et al.
Effective policy, effective policing, effective anti terrorist activity?

Soldiers are wonderful idealists, caught in the middle of misguided, ideological debates between overweight, self serving men, and the odd women, who have nothing at stake (except one democratic congressmen, I believe, and the strangely polarizing McCain).

Aren't we open source here? Why can't the model work with foreign policy - or at least entertain the notion. The coalition of the willing is a total misnomer.
But no, it is all about fear, power (insert here any one or more of: oil, electability, kick backs etc or conspiracy theories), false doctrine and misinformation under the guise of christian good. God bless America...

See you in twenty years - this will still be going on, or there'll be another great crusade for the home of the brave... you never learn because no one reads a history book.

Ask MacNamara or watch the "Fog of War" if your attention span is less that 90 mins.

PS You can only be the world's policeman if someone else is the making the law and then someone else the judiciary. That's how separation of powers in a western modern democracy functions.

PPS Apologies for the rant - off to flagellate myself with 'nasty girls' or some such thing.

MaxwellB #104,

Without checking the accuracy of your edit of Counterinsurgency FM 1-1, your quote refers to the enemy’s tactic – “generat[ing] enough violence to achieve political consequences”. This is offense, all right – insurgents', not counterinsurgents'. Counterinsurgency does not include generating violence for political gain.

So, too, your citation to 5-59 is a defense, not an offense. The fact that it permits lethal force does not turn it into an offensive tactic. The clear tactic is purely defensive. It only applies in the presence of the enemy. Even if one had to dig the enemy out of hiding, clearing is defensive. The enemy can choose to end the engagement by leaving.

An offensive tactic would involve identifying an enemy high value target and neutralizing it, whether the enemy defends it or not. The first choices would be defenses, as in air defense systems and troop emplacements. Next is leadership, especially against dictatorial enemies like ours in the last century because of their poor ability to recover. Then comes military supplies and all the infrastructure targets.

You said the Counterinsurgency manual had “plenty of others”. Help us out with some examples. What are the manual’s counterinsurgency offensive targets?

Our successes since June are off the manual.

#94 eek

If my unit or package, as you so eloquently put it, was big enough to elicit conversation from females i don't think it would bother me too much. Or if it was stuffed into tight enought pants for people to notice, then either i don't have any mirrors at home or i wanted that attentiom in the first place.

It really bothers me when the some women who cram there tight bodies into under sized clothes complain when they get the attention they were seeking in the first place.

And even worse is when when others complain for them. For the most part women know what men are like, so if you don't want to show off your cros-fit body then don't. But don't stick up for others who wanted the attention in the first place.

I don't know Annie and i've never met her but i'll go out on a limb and guess that she is really proud of the body she works so hard for and doesn't mind showing off the fruits of her labour even at the risk someone might look or even comment!

oh how i wish someone would comment on my cleavage...but alas...i don't have any anymore! LOL!

oh yeah, and the first thing i noticed about annie was her awesome arms and shoulders! gorgeous!

Did "nasty girls" today.

44/m/159#

Scaled and sub'd:
3 rds of
50 squats
28 pullups/28 dips
115# hang power cleans

17:30

That's just a brutal workout.

I couldn't resist not taking advantage of the wonderful weather today, so I enjoyed a 50:24 trail 10k, which is PR for me. Then I went to the track to try the 4x400 w/ 2 minutes rest outside, since I did it on my treadmill on Monday.
Legs were shot from the 10k, so 1:40, 1:33x2, 1:29.

Rajib, I have to disagree with two things you said in your post, #97.
"when i see some 'terroist' at my door or bothering my family ill take care of it." Bad news friend, but when they're at your door, it'll be too late. Better to take care of things now, "over there."
Also, "Everyone justs wants to be happy. give yourself a chance and everyone else." The Islamo-Fascists your refer to at the end of your first paragraph, are not satisfied with happiness. They litterally want to take over the world. And the definition of happiness that they'd like to impose on you would be unrecognizable from the things you enjoy today. For starters, Annie's picture wouldn't be on the FREE front page of CrossFit, on the uncensored internet...

PS-Nothing to apologize for LeslieAP.

I'll have time to comment more extensively in the next day or two, but for now: Amen. Agree in full. Very well written, very well documented.

We need not listen to the Failurists forever. We have common sense as a nation, and the Leftist lock on the media has been greatly weakened by radio, the internet, and an entrepreneurial Australian to whom we all owe a debt.

I didn't read all the comments, but to guy who commented about the failure of Alexander, and the British: we are still excavating Greek forums in Afghanistan. Alexander made it through to India.

And if you have been asleep under a tree for the last ten years, we won in Afghanistan with a couple hundred Americans, air power, and Afghans who wanted to be freed from Taliban terror. We won. We are now fighting battles with residual elements we can't, currently, chase across the border into Pakistan.

#37 Elsie

I stopped reading just to respond to your question. I tell them, oh so politely, that I was using that bar, and that if they'd like to join me, they're more than welcome. That does the trick 99.9% of the time! Those muscle heads can't hang, and they know it, and they don't want to get shown up by "some little girl." Yeah, some "little girl" that will kick your A$$!!

--in8girl
Yeah, the scale can be a beast sometimes. Check your measurements along with weighing. You may notice a difference there. Only about once a month though or it can be just as frustrating. a month gives plenty of time for change. I'm diabetic (manual insulin control can make it harder to drop the weight)and had been stuck at a plateau for about 6 months. very frustrating! Finally this month it has started to come off again. Just stick with it.

Annie got her guns!! I noticed them and can't wait to had a set of my own! Of course she is from Texas.

WOD:

First muscle-up! Hoo-ah! I've had the strength for this for a long time, but no rings... working on technique to get consistant now!

Next:

Learning the unassisted handstand... have to perfect the forward roll first.

#101 Jim D. - that's great news to hear! You were certainly more patient than I could've been, but you clearly were correct and it has paid off! I hope your wife doesn't get discouraged - for me it always helps to remind myself that SEEING the results isn't so important as FEELING the results is - as in I am stronger at pushups, etc.

Bingo, excellent point about Korea. I suspect we talk about Vietnam because the generation that was involved is the generation that is currently driving our national discussion. And I liked the observation regarding what Vietnam did for technology and what technology did/has done/is still doing for, and to, media coverage. My impression is that the nation was not fed the media diet that the nation was fed in Vietnam. Certainly not what is available to us now. It has always been a money making enterprise, but it feels like that is its sole purpose anymore. Sad to watch the death of the true fourth estate amongst the rise of another, rather less noble, agenda.

Many people are terrified by violence and will move against its application in a knee-jerk reaction when faced with said application. Those are the sheep you referenced a few days back. Unfortunately, those sheep bleat loudly, incessantly and stridently. They need protected but they are too obtuse to realize they need protection. Brother, I live in Seattle: pu--y sheep central. Believe me, I know of what I speak because I am bombarded with it daily. Not you Nadia! I read your xfit posts and you scare me. Very impressive.

Oh, and regarding the other main thread of today's boards: that woman in the pic is, on the surface, worth looking at. Indeed, it was the first thing I saw when I saw the picture. (Thousands of years of evolution made me that way and I ain't gonna try and change now.) She is clearly justifiably proud of both her physique (all aspects) and, I suspect, the seriously intense work it took to mold said physique. Good for her. The "package" comparison is invalid because 99% of men are not flopping the goods out there for all to see. And for the record, I am not implying that she was "flopping" anything anywhere. Cleavage has a far more ornamental component to it than the buddy has. Seriously, you ever had to look at one of those things? They are not attractive, lol.

All that being said, I don't think anyone has to apologize for anything. No one attacked anyone and everyone gets to have an opinion. They are like a whole other part of the anatomy in that respect: everyone has one and you have to respect what a person can do with one.

I was born after the Vietnam Conflict and have not studied it much more than what was required in school. I did read the article and found it interesting. The article also made me want to learn more about The Conflict (since war was never declared). I have 3 uncles who served during the war, only one was in Vietnam though (only one soldier per family could be in a combat zone). He never talks about his experiences and I have always had the feeling he would rather not or at least it would not be polite for me to ask.

The thing that strikes me most about Korea, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, etc. is that the Russians never had to commit troops to further their communist ideals. The US always had to commit and lose soldiers to contain or prevent the spread of communism. Until Afghanistan in the 1970s-1980s, Russia was very good at meddling in the affairs of other countries without creating anti-war and anti-government groups within it's own country.

Too bad the US could not have stopped the spread of communism without sending soldiers and only providing war materials. In any effect, I imagine the Russians during the Vietnam Conflict and even today, get a laugh at the rifts they indirectly caused mainland America to face, without firing a single shot.

Wow, what a function-forward foto. Somehow, I suspect we just might be missing the most educational angle on this particular exercise.

rings made from pvc pipes work great...thanks roomie

My WOD was on the mountain. A buddy and I snowboarded for nine hours today without a break. Truly a great day. We played Board (think Horse but in the terrain park), follow the leader and raced. I'm feeling beat but great. It was a beautiful day and couldn't be more excited about starting up this next cycle.
PS. As of three hours ago, I started trying to eat right. For me it's going to be the hardest part, but it'll pay off huge in the end.
Peace out home skillets, catch you on the flip

Jeff Glassman #109

I guess I would suggest reading that first paragraph in its entirety. In full context, it is very clearly referring to either side, in any war, ever. If you weren't previously aware, the full text is available at http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf

In the sense you describe, no counterinsurgency operation can be offensive, because none of the things you list are particularly relevant to such a conflict. I don't believe there are air defence systems, troop emplacements, or infrastructure targets, unless you want to redefine those things to refer to some guy with an RPG in his closet, groups of people who look like and live among civilians, and the same infrastructure used by non-insurgents. If that is the case, then we are talking past each other.

As far as further examples, I would suggest looking under "Offensive operations" in the index.

I appreciate the thoughtful reply.

Decided to say screw the rest day. Made up a workout to try out my new homemade med ball.

50-35-15 with 10 pullups at the start, end and in between sets. It looked like this.

10 pullups

50 clean and press med ball 25 lbs
pushups
situps

10 pullups

35 clean and press med ball
pushups
situps

10 pullups

15 clean and press med ball
pushups
situps

10 pullups

It got me going pretty damn good. 24:37

I'm often interested in posting my thoughts to these articles. But then again, it gets old trying to respond to the constant flow of neoconservative perspectives that mysteriously permeate these workout instructions. So, alas, I think I'll just try for more pull-ups and manage my own intellectual development. Thanks though!

shannon #111- too funny.

erin- i hear ya with the scale thing, dealing with it as well. bleh. ready to throw it out.

annie hawkins is freckin awesome. i haven't had the pleasure of meeting her in person yet, but have gotten to know her via email. she is a great athlete and a sweet person. i remember the very first picture i saw of her and was blown away by her arms. the girl is yoked.

jared- congrats on the muscle up!

Comment #37 - Posted by davidorr

David,

Well said. Thanks. Paul

#110 Ray,

Your comments are 100% on the money. I think it is ridiculous (and a little pathetic) that some of the women on here, as well as some of the men, have appointed themselves as the guardians of what is "okay" to say on this board.

Every time there's a video of AllisonNYC on here, or a picture of a woman like Annie, the men on this group are inundated with "pre-emptive strikes" from a minority of people who are offended by the very thought of men being attracted to women's bodies.

Like it or not, those few of you who are made uncomfortable by the very sight of a woman's breasts (and the occasional comments that follow) on here are NOT the "thought police". The last time I checked, this was still the United States, and the 1st Ammendment still applies.

The funny part to me is....it's never the woman in the video or photo who does the complaining. It's always some self-appointed PC guru.

Get over yourselves, please. Nobody complains when AllisonNYC says CF guys are hot...so we're entitled to compliment the women. Live by one standard, or not at all.

I noticed the cleavage.

What's wrong here? Geez. It's just some boobs. Why are people so wacked out over this?

Oh yeah, and Militant Islam is much more dangerous to our society than Communism ever was. The Commies had nukes. The jihadists will use them. You are talking about people that think itis okay to blow themselves up in malls and kill kids, or kill their own daughters because they won't wear the traditional head scarves. Its not a neoconservative thing, its a fact thing.

Why does it take so long for the WOD to post? It is after 23:00 PST, and no post for 1/27 WOD? I live in Alaska and still nothing, so the East Coast is 4 hours ahead? My email subscription/notification does not come until the day of the workout. Why can't this be broadcasted the day before?

This needs to be broadcasted by 6pm PST the day before the WOD.

I'm so grateful that the day I finally gave in to the flu was a rest day. I really could use the break. Tomorrow, I'll go through the WOD just like I was never sick, even if I give off the appearance of being sick. After all, life goes on. I suppose this is bad advice in some instances, so never feel ashamed to take a break if you're really beat down.

namaste

Troy,
It's a free site. Appreciate that.

No workout and it's almost 10PM PST.
Two rest days in a row :)

I've never understood why people complain about when the WOD is posted. Just work one day behind.
Problem solved.

I think the photo was an excellent choice precisely because the photo -alone- catches the unusual view from above her chest -- but the photo is OF a focused instructor and obviously focused, studious students, intently studying a technical approach to exercise.

I appreciate Leslie's original comment and the fact that people readily speak up. I think the kneejerk reaction against supposed PC police is off-base; there are important seeds of truth to the claim that wolfish behavior will drive away a lot of potentially valuable women who should be made to feel welcome and supported. From what we see, CF is succeeding at welcoming and supporting valuable women.

It's hardly the case that a woman chooses to wear clothing such as we see in the photo to invite or to welcome attention. I think that's a mistake, and a potentially problematic one. That above-chest perspective in the photo is in fact unusual.

What is interesting is how accepted it is for women to be sleeveless, and how unusual and seemingly unaccepted it is for men to be sleeveless. Indeed, among trainers in California, it's an unspoken, duty-bound uniform for the men to all wear sleeved shirts (but is it really modesty? in CF the shirts come off pretty quick because they're insufficiently comfortable. So much for functionality.)

Holy crap, Troy, chill pill.

I understand that CF is free, and yes I am complaining....I would think the powers to be would post the workout by a set time so everyone could rely on when the WOD would be posted. Post times are all over the board (for time), but usually are posted by 7PM PST.

Holy crap, Troy, bigger chill pill. Repeat as needed.

It's Saturday night. Maybe Coach is having a nice night out, or somthing. The pain will come brother. The pain will come.

Big Scott,

you keep your pill brother, and post a WOD.

That should have been a ? instead of a .

I look forward to seeing the WOD's posted when I wake up in the morning or when I get off of a late night combat patrol, but if it isn't there, like today, I will make it up after my next patrol. Troy, I suggest you thank the brilliant athletes at Crossfit for the free website and find the nearest chowhall, grab some straws, and suck it up.

Motivated0311,

did you come up with those words on your last late combat patrol? that is why you are a gravel agitator....must be army....

#1 What man doesn't love a beautiful, strong and smart woman?

#2 WOD? Go with the flow, bros. It'll be there or you can do another one you've been wanting to try.

Anybody know where I can find a bare chested picture of Greg Amundson?

Marine Corps, the 0311 kind of gives it away.

I'm lost - can't go to bed without knowing tomorrow's workout. What gives?

#152 Jake:

Copy that...looking for my fix.

Feel like a meth addict! I keep checking every 2-3 minutes for my next WOD.

Cant rest until I know what to get ready for!

Bring it!

3, 2, 1, lets' get er' done!

p.s. feel like an east coast Crossfitter, needing to stay up till 12:00 for my next fix...

Love this place!

Right on Steve N.!

Waiting around trying to guess what the WOD gonna be is a part of my fun, but damn it's late!

Waiting around for the WOD for Sunday. It is already Sunday here in Iraq, so I l love the early post. I will make up my own WOD.

Motivated 0311,

why do you think I mentioned it? Army could not handle CF, a jarhead could....it was a crack against ya big shot! Just busting your chops and returning the compliment.

Be safe!

NEEDED

1) a server-side applet that will PUSH a message as soon as the WOD is updated on the server, and NOT by sendmail, the mail process is too slow;

2) a client-side applet to receive this message and perform the alarm of my choice to let me know when the WOD has been posted.

Constantly refreshing is wasteful.

NEEDED

1)Everyone who is complaining just needs to stop being a pussy and whining about not seeing the WOD before going to bed

2)Realize that this service that these great people are providing all of is FREE and is NOT REQUIRED of them

Post #139 Kirez and Tash

I appreciate your sincere and genuine response. I must also admit that after reading the thread from top to bottom I'm surprised by the number of angry, sacrastic and somewhat hateful responses to my original "package"post. No worries. I'm just surprised.

Eeek (and everyone else for that matter)

On January 14's rest day J rock stated that he was going to make a video proving his performance on the continuous clock pullup performance. Anyway, a female poster (not to put this lady on the spot), posted the following comment to J rock.

"J Rock, get that video posted! Umm.. shirtless, if you please. board shorts & barefoot if you're feeling really generous. Focus the camera on the tats if you will."

There were no "Oh, that was inappropriate" comments made. So where were you Eeek? I personally, as others, thought the comment made by that woman was funny.

#118 by Ray - Good Post.

Grabbing another quick moment--like dropping out back for a quick toke--wanted to comment on the picture.

She's a beautiful woman. Women like being beautiful--most every woman I know takes great care in how she dresses, how she does her hair, and wears make-up most every day--and she has obviously worked hard to look the way she does. We don't have to pant or howl like construction workers to appreciate yet another CrossFit beauty.

In fact, nothing need be said at all.

By the way - forget Vietnam - back to Crossfit. The Girl in the photograph looks fantastic. Rather than making inappropriate comments about her awesome cleavage, I'll just congratulate her for working hard and getting in superb shape.

Harry MacD #97,

Agreed! The Democratic effort might also be cast as the stereotypical warrior fighting the last war. They've trotted out the same tactics (bloody media blitz, flag draped coffins, amputees in rehab, mothers' anguish) and the same vocabulary (presidential lies, quagmire, civil war, corporate objectives, generals cooking the books, big rubber/oil) with which they defeated the US in Vietnam. It's a matter of power and control trumping national interests. They might yet succeed; it's priority one in the Democratic platform.

The history of WWII is notable for the policy of unconditional surrender, an invention of the Democrats. The world would be much different today if we had stayed at home, or had gone no further than North Africa and Great Britain, or if we had stopped at the border with Germany to negotiate a peace. The US seriously considered, briefly, a negotiated settlement with Tojo to save a million or so American lives in the planned invasion. Truman and a little technology saved the day and the doctrine. Imagine how our world would look today without Toyotas and Sonys.

Today's Democrats still campaign for unconditional surrender -- ours. Of course, if they ever got power back, expect them to turn Trumanesque or worse, LBJesque.

MaxwellB #133,

A rather sophisticated air defense system exists in Iran where many insurgency actions originate. You will also find troop emplacements in Syria and Iran. These would interfere with counterinsurgency operations and should be destroyed.

Weapons are being brought across the borders with Syria and Iran. We should inspect the vehicles, implanting tracking devices. When they arrive to be unloaded, we should take them out.

Who are the surviving enemies influencing Iraq? At the top of the list recently were Muqtada al-Sadr, Harith Al-Dhari, and Hassan Nasrallah. These men are responsible for civilian and American deaths. They should be killed. That is the ultimate price, and extracts the only thing they might value. Instead, they sit comfortably in sanctuaries to perpetuate the war with jihad Kamikazes.

You wrote, “In the sense you describe, no counterinsurgency operation can be offensive, because none of the things you list are particularly relevant to such a conflict.”

Why are they not relevant? If you rely on the Counterinsurgency manual to prove that the Counterinsurgency manual is valid, then you would be correct but illogical.

Of course, the Counterinsurgency manual has an offense component! It says so. It also says,

>>Commanders employ a combination of offensive small-unit operations. These may include area saturation patrolling that enables the force to defeat insurgents in the area, interdiction ambushes, and targeted raids. [¶] 5-57. These offensive operations are only the beginning, not the end state. Eliminating insurgent forces does not remove the entrenched insurgent infrastructure. … Rooting out such infrastructure is essentially a police action that relies heavily on military and intelligence forces until HN police, courts, and legal processes can assume responsibility for law enforcement within the cleared area. FM 3-24, ¶¶5-56--5-57 Clearing, p. 5-19.

>>Offensive and stability operations are continued to maintain gains and set the conditions for future activities. These include- [¶] • Isolating the area to cut off external support and to kill or capture escaping insurgents. [¶] • Conducting periodic patrols to identify, disrupt, eliminate, or expel insurgents. [¶] • Employing security forces and government representatives throughout the area to secure the populace and facilitate follow-on stages of development. FM 3-24, ¶5-58, Clearing, p. 5-19.

>>Limited offensive operations may be undertaken, but are complemented by stability operations focused on civil security. FM 3-24, ¶5-4, p. 5-2.

>>This intelligence facilitates measured offensive operations in conjunction with the HN security forces. FM 3-24, ¶5.5 Middle Stage, p. 5-2.

>>Measured offensive operations continue against insurgents as opportunities arise, but the main effort is focused on the population. FM 3-24, ¶5-60 Holding, p. 5-19.

What kind of guidance does this give to field commanders? What does limited mean? What does measured mean? Does it mean we can't go get al-Sadr?

The manual is wussy.

The Counterinsurgency manual is a recipe for interminable defensive operations and perpetual casualties. It is incompatible with fast foodies, half of Congress, and the surrender-at-all-costs media.

Now either Petraeus is not following his manual, or his clear operations have been surprisingly successful against a very stupid enemy. He bragged about killing or capturing 31 insurgent leaders between June and September. Either way, he neutralized 31 high value targets. This could well account for the reduction in violence in Iraq instead of the arrival of our 20,000 high value targets for TBD patrols.

Petraeus ought to consider inserting decapitation operations permanently and predominantly under offense in FM 3-24 ver. A.

Andy W.,

Your view on this topic is not "wrong" just as mine is not "wrong". Just because someone didn't object to the comment on 1/14 doesn't justify your view. Being part of a community means understanding that people have different views, opinions, feelings and reactions to your own. None of them right or wrong, just different. Understanding comes from compassion for different views not from trying to destroy the differences between us. This is my last comment on the subject as a matter of choice. I respect everyone else's opinions even if they don't reflect my own. I guess that's one of the joys of being part of a democracy. God how I love the first amendment. :) As for me I'm off to Crossfit Total! 3,2,1,,, Go!

I think that it's great that they posted a picture of her doing weighted back extensions.

What's the big deal everyone?

M/29/165

Did some work today to make up for my unscheduled rest days (that's URDs, for short) last week. Worked my snatch, which is unfortunately ill-timed and weak.

Results not worth posting.

Comment on "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" - yawn. I don't think Nagel offered anything insightful, new, or different than what had been written a hundred times before by not only smarter people, but by people that knew how to write.

Not saying that there isn't good information in it, but as #53 Bingo said, "it's dense"; or as I would describe it: unreadable (but I did read it - give me my time back Nagel!)

#112 MaxwellB - My opinion of whether or not we have been on "offense" or not is that the "soup" (to milk that analogy for all it's worth) is either too hot or too cold.

When I was with the Marines, I feel the first month or two we were "too hot." We'd get some scant info and roll immediately on it, without vetting.

After about a month we were "just right" and had results to prove it. We took a large area and completely destroyed the muj presence through operational patience. Sometimes we would roll on a moments notice, but it would have to be good intel that we already had background on. But no more meeting an Iraqi on a random patrol and raiding a house because he points at it and says "Ali Baba."

With the SF, who I worked with on my second tour, I would say that they were "too hot" pretty much the whole time I was there. Most of the SF saw there mission as door kickers and were not interested in the background that got them there or if the guy they released was back on the street in 14 days. I saw this with Force Recon during my first tour as well.

Now when I had been out there to visit prior and afterwards, this was much different depending on the SF Teams involved [Addendum - this was the CJSOTF element, so there job was FID]. But in measuring results, pretty easy to see that they were not making much progress as far as security of their sectors because they were p!ssing off more people than they were helping.

#116 JC - Really did like "Fog of War" as well.

#117 Dr. Glassman - Agree the FM can be interpreted either way, however I'm a fan of Gen Mattis "If a guy needs a shooting - shoot him. If he doesn't, protect him." The idea that we can achieve victory by killing/capturing HVIs is not backed up by any anecdotal or clinical data that I have EVER seen. Again and again I have seen units who eat up 10-20x the budget of a USMC platoon go out every night to k/c HVIs, and little to nothing happens as a result, whether they get the guy or not.

The people are the center of gravity in counterinsurgency, not the enemy.

#172 Dr. Glassman - I greatly respect the time and effort that you put into these boards and the foundation of scientific knowledge that you bring as well. However, asking any soldier or Marine to cut off another man's head, no matter what the situation, is something I would never ask another man to do as a leader. Every man or woman that goes to war has to live with the decisions we make, and those that have the hardest time living with them are those that aren't sure if they acted in the right or know they acted in the wrong.

We will never sacrifice our honor - never - never - never. We will not debase ourselves and act like our enemy.

Wow - how sad. One of the best articles I've ever read on Vietnam and its historical hijacking by antiwar opponents and instead we get a discussion on boobs by boobs (mostly) and a few random shots of nonsense about how people don't like these "neocon" articles and responses. The article has nothing to do with "neocons" - it merely points out how wrong the American Left and Antiwar movement were and how fraudulent they have been in their attempts to continue to use Vietnam as a "trump card" in every war. They do this by simply rewriting history. And guess what? It worked!

Movies like Platoon and others noted in the article perpetuate a myth. And that has come to be fact to an entire generation. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, look at what a generation thinks about the JFK assassination. Nuts.

Here's one funny thing about history that ties both the breast discussion and the article - we've had this same argument about the propriety of a CF pic of a woman, whether there should be more pics of guys, whether guys would like it if women discussed their "packages", and it was almost 2 years ago with different people. I wish I could find that day's comments and then compare them - like Yogi said, it's like deja vu all over again.

Dale: What are your thoughts on Korea as a more apt starting point for a discussion of Iraq going forward?

I sit back and listen to discussions of the Vietnam war to see who challenges the prevailing, almost universal, notion that we suffered military defeat in Vietnam. We didn't we won and then left only to allow the Communists to come back and commit all the atrocities expected by the right.

No modern war has been less well covered by history. None. All the pop histories very deliberately, very conveniently, cover the conflict up until '68. And most make no mention of General Abrahms at all.

I highly recommend "A Better War" by Lewis Sorley and "Vietnam, The Necessary War" by Michael Lind. These are the only two authors I know who cover the war's end. By '72 American officials traveled throughout South Vietnam with less security than they needed in the US. And we gave that away preoccupied by Watergate.

Everyone who thinks that Vietnam was unwinnable doesn't know the history. It was not only winnable ;it was won.

Bingo: Although I agree with you regarding Korea and Iraq, your main problem is the American people at this time in history. WWII was a resounding victory. Patriotism was high as was our national confidence. We believed we would prevail in Korea and despite a very shaky start, we did prevail.

Vietnam changed all that. For the first time in our history, we quit. Call it what you will, but thats what happened. Any conflict now is automatically linked to that war and in short order people start wanting to quit. Unfortunate since we didn't have to lose in Vietnam. The press did it for us and brought about our fall from grace.

Given the chance I believe they will do it in Iraq as well. Makes all the sacrafice our service people and their families go through seem pointless. Too bad, since our military is second to none. Let them do their jobs until they do prevail in this conflict and we may once again regain some of who we were as a nation.

exqweezme DC #176,

No, no! Not decapitation of people! Decapitation by removing the heads of the terrorist movements.

The FM has no ambiguity with regard to offense. It has no guidance on how to avoid the waste you describe in futile attempts by units to take out HVIs. It has no guidance for an efficient interdiction mission, either. And it places no value or priority on either of those actions.

We'll never improve our COIN offensive operations as long as they are not authorized. They'll remain Rambo tactics.

We've spent a national fortune chasing bin Laden and the likes. But you don't see the value in that. Al Jazeera manages to get his tapes, and CBS manages interviews with al Sadr. There might be a weakness here. Maybe we should redouble our HumInt and SigInt. Bug all the mosques.

The task is not easy, just essential.

Or, maybe you think the enemy is going to run out of mujs?

The key here, in my view, is to look at the end game, and work backwards. It seems to me we have two aims, one domestic, and one foreign.

Domestically, the goal is for rational minds to retake control of the dialogue, and get revisionist hysterians out of our schools, and out of our national dialogue. This involves reinvigorating the founding spirit of our nation, based on Enlightenment principles.

We are the good guys. Our soldiers, in general, are more trustworthy and honorable than any other army out there, bar none. There is no nation in history that has combined our potential power, with such immense restraint in the face of clear and repeated provocations.

We are doing nothing less than ending millenia of corrupt governing in at least one part of the Middle East, and creating a model for the rest of the Middle East. This is feared both by the ruling elites in other corrupt nations, and by our own Left.

The former fear it because they might lose their totalitarian control of, well, everything. The latter because their patent lies will be shown for what they are, and by extension their own profound cowardice and moral corruption. Many vermin fear the light, and that is exactly what continuing success in Iraq would mean.

Internationally, our overall goal is to take the wind out of the sails of Al Queda. It is to offer a positive alternative to traditional Arabic--and more generally, Islamic--despotism, which seems to tolerated only because those currently under someone's yoke can dream that someday they will themselves be in that position. It is a constant rotation of Sob's, one which has gone on forever.

Our specific goal in Iraq is for the people of that nation to subordinate their own parochial interests to the national rule of law long enough to begin to see the benefits of this. Trust does not come easy in that part of the world, but only the trust of high ethical standards will enable them to finally end millenia of abject poverty, and political and social violence.

If we want to teach this, we need to model it. We need to be good cops, because they have plenty of experience with bad cops. Short term, we might need to occasionally launch operations in areas clearly and obviously needing to be addressed. Long term, our mission is peace. It is peace between one tribe and the next, and between Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds, and between Iran and Turkey, and the Kurds.

I haven't followed this campaign closely, but regardless of his deviations from conservative ideals, he is both articulate and in my view electable. And in particular, he not only remembers the Vietnam War, he experienced first hand the worst it had to offer.

Our world has changed since the 70's. We now have a major network that can reasonably reliably be counted on not to propound leftist propaganda. We have the internet, where people can both gather and disperse information (btw: I would encourage all of you, when you find an excellent article like that posted today, to put it up on a local message board; our leftist enemies do this better than conservatives, who often get distracted by things like jobs), and we have multiple talk shows that get the needed information out.

Absent these things, our efforts to win the Peace in Iraq would already have been rendered null and void, and the country handed over to one thug or another, and Bush of course roundly blamed for everything except excessive concern for good grammar.

Quite often--really, generally if you really think about it--the future is a fog. Quite often, what we hope for seems impossible. Yet, if you quit, you guarantee an outcome that was otherwise merely possible. There are times when you stand your ground, come hell or high water, and when you really commit, when you truly muster every particle of will in your body in the service of a higher cause, it is surprising how often miracles happen.

Honestly, I thought we would be done by now. After the coordinated suicide bombing/leftist marketing blitz in September/October of 2006--with a resulting short term salient of support for the Party of Failure--it really looked like we were going to turn tail and run like frightened poodles.

Whatever his intellectual merits, or possible defects of character, I think George W. deserves a lot of credit for keeping us in the fight. Mistakes were plainly made, but we appear to have learned from them, and developed a means forward that accomplished both peace on the ground, and a path to both increased liberty and prosperity that can be emulated in other long suffering nations in the region and even--who knows?--the world.

There was a reference there to John McCain, but I forgot to put his name in there. He's nearly a Democrat--he arguably is on a number of issues--but in my view he's electable against either Obama or Hillary, and quite often we get what we can, not what we want. He's a darn sight better than either of them, as far as I can tell. Unless he's changed, he will support our efforts to win the peace.

#179 Coach - Thank you for the book recommendations.

#181 Dr. Glassman - I apologize, I should have read what you wrote more clearly.

#182 Barry Cooper - As to para 2 - privatize schooling, get rid of government involvement. You can have the enlightenment taught, I can have the existential philosophy of Neil Diamond taught, and the religious can teach religion. Either way, we get a better product and we instantly save a ton of time that we waste b!tching about the school system.

As to para 4 - the idea that we are creating a model or ending corrupt govt is extremely arguable. We have asked a huge bureaucracy that can barely run itself (the US Govt) to create and run another bureaucracy (the Iraqi Federal Govt), and we are somehow surprised that they can't get results? I agree with Petreus that there needs to be a political solution to the war (I don't agree that that is the only solution) and my humble suggestion is take the total dollar amount that the USG gives to the IFG, divide that by the number of US Infantry Battalions in Iraq, and give an even amount to every Bn Commander in Iraq and tell him "Get results." Two months later you'd have even greater security and stability than we are seeing now with the combination of increased troop presence in Baghdad and the Sahawa Al Anbar in the west.

As bad as some of the spending is at the local level, at least its local. The money that goes to the IFG is a blackhole that we have gotten next to no return on.

Schools: not a bad idea, but I can't see that ever happening. Private schools are available now for those who want to pay for them, as I choose to.

Would I support a voucher for the tax money I spend supporting public schools? Sure, but I don't see it happening. I'm just double paying right now, apparently to educate Mexican kids in Spanish, from what I hear.

Be that as it may, to respond to your second point: on balance, our government works. It doesn't work as well as I would like, but basically our streets are safe, our nation is safe, and our laws are upheld. Do I wish it were less intrusive and tried to do less? Yes.

However it is a large stretch from there to an argument that we are doomed to failure in Iraq for that reason. Our objective is to leave, and when we leave to leave a nation that can govern and protect itself.

For that reason, even if we are currently wasting some money on that entity--and I'm sure we are, and probably quite a bit--this does not mean that we are betting on the wrong horse.

If we actually were imperialists--if our intent really did primarily revolve around stealing other peoples stuff, and taxing them to support us--then your approach might make sense.

However, since we are not imperialists, we need to understand that whatever money might be wasted, it is still being invested in an entity we need if we are going to get our boots off of Iraqi sand.

If you look at business investments--say in pharmaceuticals--the overwhelming bulk of money spent is wasted. Most things they try don't work. Yet somehow these companies manage to make enough money that leftists complain incessantly about them.

We are throwing sparks on kindling. One can say that the spark was wasted if it doesn't result in a blazing flame, but the reality is it was a chance. A wasted chance perhaps, but a chance. The fire of liberty, when it begins to burn, will burn faintly, and hesitantly.

Iraqi democracy will look for some time like ours did for our early history. You will have bosses who dictate who gets elected, and you will have covert and blatant corruption, like we had with Tammany Hall.

But you will have something better than they had, and something that over time can evolve in more helpful directions.

Such, anyway, is my hope, and I don't believe it unjustified.

30/M/5'5"/167

I got bored so i went to the gym. My WOD was

3 rounds for time:
400m run
400m row
25 push ups
25 2ft box jumps
25 sit ups

total time: 22 and change.

i was eye balling the clock since i forgot my watch. i don't know but i always have trouble with the 2ft box jumps. i don't want to use my height as an exuse but i am short... hehehe.

M/31/198

Had some time Sunday morning to do a quick WO, and was not feeling too taxed. Did Oly singles for form:
Snatch 15 @ 40 kg, 5 @ 50kg
C&J 3 @ 50 kg, 10 @ 60kg

Couple of OHS here and there for good measure.

My form usually develops slowly during my workouts, with the last few lifts being the best.

Bingo - a little late in responding, but I think Korea and Vietnam make excellent comparisons for their differences, in both the results, the fighting, and what happened afterwards (and on a bunch of other levels, as well). The same arguments about Vietnam (that it wasn't "our" war, that it need not have concerned us, that the Domino Theory was bunk, etc.) all would have applied equally (under that framework of argument) to Korea. Funny, though, instead, how we never had "boat people" from the mid- to late-50's streaming toward our borders and fleeing their homeland. Hmmmmm, I wonder why...?

Today we x-country skiied (Belinda)/ snowshoed (Dave, due to hole in foot caused by new ski boots yesterday) to Dewey Point. The views of El Cap, the valley and Yosemite high country were just spectacular.

This seems to be winding down, so I thought I'd pass along a good line. I'm staying up reading David Mcullough's excellent biography of John Adams, and a line which both he and George Washington called upon was from Joseph Addison's "Cato"--which I need to read one of these days--was "We cannot insure [sic] success, but we can deserve it."

That's good.