I guess I should pay close attention to all of this running info since it's my weakest link by far.

Happy rest day everyone.

Who knows about cheat days on the ZONE? I've been going strong for 6 days. Do I get one yet? Maybe I should save it for my birthday since I plan on eating a whole chocolate cake.

Hey folks, I've just been reviewing some of the videos from the past week. I've noticed that lots of folks drop the bar at the top of the last deadlift rep. Why is that OK? I've always thought a DL required both the up and down movement??

Still wondering if anyone in Edmonton knows a good place to get some lifting shoes made....Thanks.
DR

Does anyone know when the level 2 certs are starting?

I'm with BigAl #2; pet peeve of mine. Those aren't complete reps and they shouldn't be counted.

Wait ... whaddya mean "almost" lost. I thought we had lost. Harry Reid already declared defeat a few months ago. Jack Murtha said it was delusional to think the surge was working.

http://gotburkha.blogspot.com/

I do most of my WOD's at home with my equipment. I need a new pull-up station. The one I have I cannot do a Kip properly because of its design. Does anyone have or know anything about the station on the Tactical Athlete Site?? Is it stable enough for a kip?
http://www.tacticalathlete.com/

Hope you all enjoy the rest day.

Rich,

Get some sandbags or toss some weights onto some pillows and put them on the legs (of your station) to counter-balance your pullup station. Another cheap and very good alternative (which I have) is the "Door Gym". I'd highly recommend it and you can kip away.

Ryan

any other science minded people cringe at the definition of torque???

Allison,
You are the deffinition of "addict". Keep up the good work.

I am new to the Zone as well (about 2 weeks in) & I'm pretty casual about it. I'm usually strict on breakfast, lunch & snacks, but when I get home my wife usually has something like some mashed potatoes & something or other not on the zone plan cooked up (don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining. I love coming home to my wife & two beautiful daughters with dinner simmering on the stove). I have been +/- 1 pound of 165# for the past 4 or 5 years & yesterday I weighed in at 161.8#. First time I've been below 163# in years. Somewhat related but not really, Coach says in CF Journal Issue #21, "If you choose to guestimate portions, you'll have the results of Crossfit's top performers only if and when you are lucky". I don't think having a cheat day every couple of weeks will have too much of an impact on your performance relative to the pure ecstacy you will experience during said cheat day while eating the forbidden fruit (or pizza perhaps?). I'm sure coach & the hardcore cf'ers will differ with me, but I'm a firm believer in enjoying life along with fitness. Speaking of, this is one hell-uv-a tasty Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale I'm enjoying as I type (Proud Chico State Alumni at heart).

Good luck & keep posting on the board with your zone results. I would be interested to see how you are doing & you may provide some motivation to me to pass on some of these tasty Sierra Nevada brewski's.

Rich,

I can't imagine, unless that tacticalathlete.com pullup bar is made of some really incredibly strong steel, that a normal rectangle with no bracing at the corners is not going to wobble.

Kipping becomes twice as much work if the bar moves, I've discovered this both at home (my pullup bar and at the gym when my momentum starting tipping the cable machine that has the pullup bars built onto it. I would go for a wall mounted bar or a really sturdy roof mounted bar. Triangles are your friend when looking at a bar. Or you could find a welder who will make you a very similar free standing bar that for much less.

dbones (#9)

LOL, I'm with you. I'm a structural engineer and really wonder where he got that definition. Ever heard of vector components?!?!?!

#6 Infidel Six - When it comes to Harry Reid, I am ashamed to say that I am a Nevadan. Know this - the majority of Nevada's population strongly disagrees with Harry Reid's stance on - well - just about everything. God forebid if he ever came within shouting distance of me. Come to think of it, I have no idea how in God's green earth he got re-elected to the senate much less to the majority speaker of the house. He is a disgrace to the proud state of which I have spent my entire life & a disgrace to our proud nation.

Battle Born!

AllisonNYC - Robb Wolf told me to have one cheat day per week.

dbones- same here. I winced.

For the record: Torque is force times distance. It's measured in units like Newton-Meters or Ft-lbs. It is not toothpaste squooshing out of a tube. Those are different units entirely. (Colgate-inches?)

All the non-engineers reading are probably wondering why anybody even cares. Sorry, we can't help it. When faced with technical inaccuracies, the engineer/scientist feels honor bound to point them out. It's how we relate to each other. We use it to determine pecking order, like dogs sniffing posteriors. This trait also helps us prevent our colleagues from designing bridges that fall down and other embarrassingly dangerous mistakes.

Now, I'm off to go download the full video and see if I can make sense of it. I have a feeling that underneath the creative application of physics terminology, there's some useful knowledge there.

After that, I may derive some equations describing toothpaste being squeezed out of a tube* or alphabetize my calculator collection.

*Poisson's Ratio = 0.5 for plastic flow.

Wait, that was what Robb said about doing the zone with paleo foods. Not sure if you aren't eating paleo.

Travis: Guilty as charged. :)

Mark: Most of the foods I'm eating happen to be paleo friendly but I'm doing the Zone. I thought the rule was 1 cheat day per week too.
I can't remember if Nicole told me that my first cheat day is after 3 weeks in the Zone.

I turned 47 today and haven't felt better! I started CrossFit on 5 September, 2007, and it has completely changed my thinking/outlook on fitness. Recently took a Marine Corps PFT after 9 weeks of doing nothing but CrossFit WODs, and scored a 285 out of 300. Shooting for 290 (+) on the next PFT. Have dropped 12 pounds on the Zone Diet in 3 months, and that has been with some cheating about twice a week. Looking forward to the Cert at Camp Pendleton in January. I have been "Ghosting" the site for 3 months now, but decided my birthday was an appropriate day to put up my first post. Best wishes to all my fellow CrossFit Warriors!

#15 - Correct units, wrong definition. Work is force times distance, torque is slightly more complicated owing to the fact that it's a cross product between the force and the length of the lever arm. Those darn sines, they just pop up when you don't want em! Although a non-engineer, I do study physics and cringed at your definition as well. With those Colgate-inches, however, you could be on to something.

As someone who deployed to Kandahar Afghanistan with the Provincial Reconstruction Team this year (a US concept that the rest of ISAF has wholeheartedly adopted because it shows the most promise, kinda makes me wonder why all that was forgotten when the US invaded Iraq) I must say this article makes some very good points. The Canadian Forces (CF), especially the Land element has only recently started going in for the whole wired thing and we’re also not geared towards high intensity conflict like the US so I can’t speak to the utility of “network centric warfare” from personal experience but I feel I can speak to the social network stuff.

Basically everything that article stated about how it takes working at the grassroots to build long term security and allow reconstruction is spot on from the CF view. The current CO of the KPRT is quite adamant that everything we do must be because the Afghans want it. Sometimes that means we have to sell it to them, other times we try to dissuade them from something we feel is not proper, but the bottom line is that without local support it does not matter how much money we pump into an area nothing will really happen.

The Government of Canada is working to get that support in Afghanistan at many levels at once. The level I am most conversant with is the lowest level being lead by our Civil Military Cooperation (CIMIC) teams. They spend lots of time talking to the village leaders, elders, shuras and so forth making personal connections, finding out what the urgent needs are and getting them satisfied while also working within the greater district and provincial reconstruction plans. CIMIC teams are also a wealth of intelligence information and our Int officer gobbled up their reports. We also had PsyOps doing the same things discussed in the article but the CF does not have as a developed PsyOps capability as the US. Basically without this ground level work we will never have mission success.

Historically speaking (so I’ve been told) Canadian troops have generally had decent relations with the locals because we go out and meet them on foot and make those personal links. Network centric warfare makes that harder and its tools are fairly irrelevant to reconstruction work. The CF has recently adopted similar technology in Afghanistan but before it came in the CO of the KPRT was deriding it, as it cannot show you the progress of a shura (meeting), only that your troops have been sitting in one spot for several hours on end. The tools that show progress in this battlespace don’t really integrate with tools meant to show the minute to minute progress of a battle.

In conclusion I would like to say that the tools of network centric warfare from what I’ve read are absolutely incredible on the battle field and are wonderful force multipliers in force on force conflicts which are the true bread and butter of the military. Reconstruction in a conflict zone is something we do because few or no others can so we must learn how to do it, but we should never forget our real job is taking the fight to the enemy and the toys/tools of Cebrowski and Garstka make that easier.

I was a duty officer with the KPRT from Feb-Aug 07 so while I saw very little of this first hand I saw all the reports and often talked to the CIMIC operators and others actually doing the hands on work in the field. Anyone with personal outside the wire experience should be able to give more detailed support or counterarguments to my comments and I invite them to do so.

Travis from Reno: The Celebration Ale, is that the Christmas ale? About a month ago I had a Sierra Nevada Anniversary Ale, honestly one of the best IPA's I have ever had the pleasure to drink.

After looking through the comments on yesterday's workout, I noticed that several of the high scorers said that their hands were torn up. I've seen quite a bit of stuff on here about how to care for your hands, but does anyone know how to avoid the damage in the first place when doing a lot of kipping pull-ups? I wore gloves yesterday and I still tore a decent patch of skin off my palm. I would love to do aggressive kipping workouts longer and harder, but it seems the skin on my hands is the limiting factor? Is this just an unavoidable consequence of CrossFit's methodology or is there a way to avoid these obviously non-constructive side effects?

I stoked to see some Pose running instruction. I've been trying to get it down on my own for awhile in hopes that it would help the "Lumbering Trot" that I call running.. All Dozier, No Gazel.

Allison- After your 2nd or 3rd week of hardcore Zone. I do 3 cheat meals a week so I can enjoy dinner on Friday, Saturday, & Sunday. The 1 day a week seems to be more effective though.

Get some, Go again!

ChiGuy (#15),

It doesn't matter that torque can be expressed as a cross product. Units are force*length, period.

There were several other technical inaccuracies (to say the least) in the video clip, but like someone else typed, there are probably good things to be learned once he stops trying to talk about physics.

dbones: I hear ya...I guess torque is a 'moment', where you're applying a force to rotate a 'body' (or body part)...
I'm thinking he shoulda just stuck to newton's laws to define what's really going on. Interesting to hear about the bio-mechanical components and injurys...but again, the whole 'torque' thing is not the right wording...however, it does explain 'momment' to people who don't know what one is :P

That being said...I like the idea of POSE running and totally want to learn more...
i run in FiveFingers (when it's >5C) so I appreciate the technique. hope to see more

There should only be one 'm' in moment.

and this 'toothpaste' example is more like hydralics, not a moment or torque...

hi crossfitters,
just a quick one to find people to train with.
Are there any crossfitters on the the sunshine coast in Queensland, Australia

Lynne and BigAl - Starting Strength 2nd edition, page 142. Go read! A slow eccentric movement back down is a waste of energy. I would really laugh if an Olympic lifter had to put the snatch weight back down to be a "full rep".

I'm also wondering about this statement in the article "In the past six years, the world's most technologically sophisticated militaries have gone up against three seemingly primitive foes — and haven't won once."

That really depends on what you would want to consider "winning".

Oh, and what happened to all that bad intel that came from HUMANS not COMPUTERS concerning WMDs and such. We seem to have forgotten that computers are the things making the errors here, it is people.

Darn it..should have read computers aren't the things making the errors here, it is people.

Alex you mean hydraulics? =)

Angry G:

While "Starting Strenght" is an excellent resource, you really should read "CrossFit Total" by Mark Rippetoe, also. It is the controlling source here... since that's what we were doing. In pertinent, it reads, "Deadlift Rules... Once this position is attained [standing erect with knees and hips fully extended] and the bar is motionless, the bar is lowered under control with both hands back to the ground. The bar may not be dropped." http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/52-2006_CFTotal.pdf page 3.

#20 Kyle S. - Not intending to turn this fine fitness forum into a beer conoiseur forum, but I think the finer things in life (i.e. beer) deserve there due recognition.

Sierra Nevada has their seasonal brews that they release periodically & their winter seasonal brew is typically the Celebration Ale. A fine Ale with some unique hopps & the Sierra Nevada "in bottle" fermenting brilliance (just like their Pale Ale). The Anniversary Ale was a new Sierra Nevada brew to me this year as well & I thorougly enjoyed it. Not sure if you've had the opportunity to try the Sierra Nevada Big Foot "Barley Wine" (can't call it a beer, because it's alcahol content is somewhere around 10% - 11% which classifies it beyond the "beer" category), but it's an ass kicker. Either you love it or you hate it. I thoroughly recommend taking a tour of the one and only Sierra Nevada brewery in Chico. The architecture is beautiful & the Brew Masters (how sick would it be to have that title on your business card?) are very knowledgeable.

Again, sorry for wasting forum time on beer talk, but it's worth the discussion in my opinion (hell, I know more about beer than I do about fitness). Now you know why I'm not making as much progress as the rest of you folks who are on the Zone.

Crossfitters (& Beer Lovers!) UNITE!

dbones-
I too heard that definition of torque and cringed. The muscle actions and elasticity discussion was over-simplified at best and in ways wrong too. As a biomechanist, track coach, performance consultant and gait researcher I have no problem saying that while Pose running technique can be helpful for novice runners much of the science behind it is flawed and this is only made worse when only a handful of Pose educators truly understand what they're talking about. Crossfit, Coach G, etc...your recent alignment with Pose has me a little dismayed.

#11 Bart
I completely agree. I figured I ask and see if anyone had a different experience. Plus it is way to affordable to be true. The only issue for me and a wall/ceiling mount p/u bar is that I live in base housing and I try not to alter too much if you know what I mean. But I may have to bite the bullet. Thanks for the reply though.

To All:

Not to the article: I have been on the Zone diet for a week and am really beginning to have a sense of the physiological changes that my body is going through. I took two days off this week due to long work hours. Yet, my diet has kept my body strong. Proven yesterday when I did the CF Total - 450 lb squat (could have done more but felt a slight twinge in my back and no spotters), 450 lb deadlift (up and down), and a 225 lb shoulder press. This is about 50-75 lbs better than I have done before. I am also focused on the torso region and keeping it taught throughout the lifts. This really helps and puts less strain on the back.

I have also been drinking about 1 gallon of water (preferrably ice water) and have begun to see my weight go down (thank goodness!).

To the Article: To all other engineers, I too feel duty bound to go to any errors that I see, but, I did not read the entire article. Really long and I just got up. I may read it more later.

As far as efficiency in transferring information, the network centric option works and is needed for any large group operations. The US Navy uses is for its BGIXS (Battle Group Information Transfer System) operations all the time. The failure in this type of system is if you have a different fighting force (i. e. the Army, Marines, Canadian forces, etc.). The conditions are different. Therefore, you need to have a different system at play.

For those that are still in the forces (mostly the Navy), how do you like the new supply system that they had put into place? I cannot remember the name of the program that is used, but it was a pain when I was working for one of the civilian nuclear power plants.

Stuart

6'0"
BW - 315

I haven't read the articles yet today...but will.
I haven't started the zone diet yet....but will.

Just wanted to say good morning to everyone in CROSSFITLAND!

~J~

~Train Hard and Push Through "IT"!~

Why are there so few CF cert.'s out here on the east coast? I'm just curious.
Certainly it makes sense that since CF Santa Cruz is HQ there would be more on the west cosat than out here (Virginia), but jeez louise!

Hey Pat or Thomi at CFVB...how bout requesting a cert. seminar!~

Hey Jeannie at Jeannie's Beach Crossfit...how bout the same!~

Hmff...looks like out to CA or AZ or WA I go. I thought that Ann Arbor was going to be holding a Gen. Cert. or L1 cert in May (ish)...anyone know anything about that?

Hey Allison-NYC ~

when me and wifey stop in for a workout at the BLack Box in about three weeks on our way back home to visit, you're gonna have to hook me up with some of those frequent flier miles of yours...considering you've probaly acrewed 5 trillion over the past month with all the cert.'s you've been too! LOL! Keep it up grl! GET SOME!

~J~
~Train Hard and Push through "IT"!~

I liked this article today.

2 points I took from this article:
- there are diminishing returns from technological integration. They are good tools... to a point.
- The human element trumps technology.

The author doesn't discuss the cost to develop and MAINTAIN these networks which probably come with an astronomical price tag.

I draw a parallel between this article and my own work. I implement ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) systems (i.e. SAP, Peoplesoft). These software tools are sold on the promise of integrating/streamlining the entire operations of a business and they have big price tags.

#28 Angry G
Nobody said anything about a "slow eccentric." I'm talking about putting the bar down. Not slow, just under control. I was a competitive powerlifter for 20 years. Nobody EVER dropped a deadlift from the top and got credit for the lift. The rules require putting the bar down under control.

Squats are down and up, deads are up AND down. Period.

#28 Lynne,

One person's "slow negative" is another's "controlled drop" ;-)

AllyNYC: No cheat meals, just 'reward' meals. It's amazing what eating clean for a time can do to what one desires and to the outcome. My reward days used to be 'eat like sh*t, feel like sh*t', now reward means just more of the clean stuff, well, ok, A LOT MORE!

cheers

Chef

#21, MB, writes,

"I've seen quite a bit of stuff on here about how to care for your hands, but does anyone know how to avoid the damage in the first place when doing a lot of kipping pull-ups?"

For me, the entire trick is to get a good grip on the bar before you start. When people attempt a dead lift or a clean, they take a moment to get their grip exactly right, but people think nothing of just jumping up, catching the bar, and starting to kip. Instead, I use a box, set to a height where I need to stand on my toes to reach the bar. I set my grip (after using chalk) so that my hands don't slip. Then, I straighten my feet, leaving me hanging with clearance from the box. Then, I start to swing.

When I do multiple sets, I take the three seconds or so it takes to set my grip each time. I haven't had a problem with tearing my hands in six months.

Travis from Reno,
I'm a huge beer guy and fan of Sierra Nevada. Can't find any of their brews since moving down to the Dirty South from the mother land Cali. You'ld be surprised how many of us CFers are beer conoiseurs. As far as the tour of their brewery, most people would enjoy just going to the resturaunt and tryng the sampler... or maybe 2 or 3.

Engineers and physicists,

The speaker referred to torque as the redirection of energy. Although this is not the physics definition, in the context, I'm not sure it's that inconsistent with the most common usage of the word, "something that produces or tends to produce torsion or rotation."

He was explaining that we apply a force down towards the ground when our feet hit, but the net result is a forward motion at right angles to the direction of the force.

I am curious about something that the mechanical engineers may be able to define more precisely: Since work is force applied in the direction of movement times distance, how do we measure the work done in running a given distance? Do we need to break the vector of the force applied by the feet into its components, and count only the small part that is in the forward direction? Or is there something more subtle to consider?

I've been trying my hand at Pose for awhile. Actually found out about it here in the comments a few years back. Most of the Mexico and US Olympic triathletes use the Method. I can report that my knees love it after the initial soreness in my calves wore away from changing from heel strike to the ball of the foot.

I've been trying my hand at Pose for awhile. Actually found out about it here in the comments. Most of the Mexico and US Olympic triataletes use the Method. I can report that my knees love it after the initial soreness wore away from changing from heel strike to the ball of the foot.

Stuart,
Nice job on the accomplishments. The zone does work out quite nicely.

Lynne and Steve,
What about when we are doing a metcon workout with DL's. Would it be okay to drop the last rep then? Sometimes you are just trying to move on to the next exercise so quickly, it just kind of happens.

Travis, I'm a Bigfoot fan however I do find them a little heavy in the stomach. I'm gonna have to say I'm mainly an ale fan with a taste for stouts.

I found the article interesting. But it seems that everytime we make a new purchase, implement a new technology, or make some kind of improvement, we are surrounded by the nay-sayers. Expecting the new technology to work by itself would be the equivalent of expecting the first musket to win the battle by throwing it on the ground and expecting it to work by itself. (That might be extreme, but you get the point).

As the nation struggles to find a way to save precious american blood through advancements in technology, our efforts are often scoffed at, cut short, or denounced as failures by the talking heads and others that have no real understanding of the very thing they are are insisting has failed. Our ability to continue to fight - in the face of adversity and set backs - is what makes our Armed Services the greatest in the world. This is done in spite of our political "leaders" (tongue in cheek) determination to undermine the other party, and in doing so, backstab the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines that protect the very lifestyle that allows them to do so.

As technology changes and improvements are made, the enemy adapts. Our enemy is not a 3rd world band of idiots, they are a thinking, creative, resourceful, and deteremined enemy. I would submit that our thoughts of them as anything less plays directly to their advantage.

The lack of foresight as to what the end state would look like when we entered this war is what has put us in this situation. But, because we are who we are, we have adapted, and we will overcome and be better for it - as will the Iraqi nation.

We must see this thing through, I have walked the streets of both Afghanistand and Iraq, I have hugged these men, I have eaten with these people. They depend on us, quitting would be far worse than any other course of action. There are those that don't want us there, the media will continue to bring them to the front, but there are many more that need us there.

I was in Afghanistan in November of 2001, and Iraq in 2003, I was "lucky" enough to be part of the first wave of both efforts. In both situations, we did not have the understanding of our enemy that we do today. As we learn, we fight smarter, and the use of technology be it the musket, an artillery piece, bombers, helicopters, UAV, or the Osprey comes at a price. We must employ it, exploit it, and get better with it. Unfortunately, mistakes will be made.

We have been in Iraq for going on 5 years. We have lost 3000+. Our employment of technology is why this number is not grossly more.

Semper Fidelis,

Mac

#45 James Forbes,
No. Reps only count if they are executed with proper form. Otherwise, wouldn't half rep pullups count (because we're just trying to move on so quickly)?

Half squats, because you know, going down all the way takes longer...those half-a$$ed cleans people do where they drop the weight before they stand up...(because we're just trying to move on so quickly)?

As soon as you compromise form for the sake of time, you've compromised the workout rx and lose the ability to compare your performance to others.

Lynn, as another former powerlifter, I'm with you all the way on the DLs. I think "tough and go" shouldn't count also. It's a DEADlift.

I think it would be cooler if folks didn't "game" the WOD scores. Scores should improve because fitness improves, not because someone figures out a way to shave a few seconds off some other way.

Just my opinion.

Comment #22: MB

Taking care of your hands is a very important thing. I used to not do anything. I thought the bigger the calouse (sp?), the better. Then I went to BUD/S, and my concept on taking care of my hands destroyed me. I ripped at least 2-3 calouses while I was there, slid down a thick, 30ft high rope, which gave me numerous second degree, and one third degree burn. Sand gets into ripped off skin, and it's overall not a pretty picture.

If you want to prevent your calouses from ripping off, you need to keep them small. Take a nail file and sand down your calouses every day. If they get too big, take some fingernail clippers and actually trim down the calouse. Don't completely remove it, as it helps your grip on the bar, but even with filing it down you will still need to clip some of it off every now and then.

Lynne,
Point well taken. Thank you.

rest day-did linda-as rx'd 34.25. Jacob Tsypkin made me do it.

Favorite Beer: Yuengling from PA

Question -- any advice is appreciated!

I have been doing CrossFit training for almost two months now, and it is awesome. It's now all I do for my own workouts. I am also starting to do some scaled back versions of CF in my clients' workouts.

For over eleven years I have been doing mostly bodybuilding-type workouts with my clients with some functional training mixed in, and have gotten some decent results--enough that my clients have been happy and I've retained many long-term clents.

Since I've started implementing CF into my clients' workouts, I have seen their performance increase pretty quickly. Most of them are loving it (some more than others, and some affectionately say they want to punch me in the face b/c the workouts are so challenging). However, I have one client who really hates it and thinks it's just a hardcore guy workout.

I'm trying to explain to her how CF training is going to help her break through her plateaus and actually get her leaner, which is her main goal. Over the last few months she can only meet for 30 minute sessions. Because of the shortened time, we haven't been able to fit in as much work and I feel her workouts have gotten a bit "fluffy." They aren't challenging her like before and of course not yielding the results we got in the beginning. The efficiency of CF workouts allows us to get more done in less time, with better results--perfect for someone who can only afford 30-minute training sessions.

So, my question is how do I get this person to buy into the effectiveness of CrossFit workouts? I don't want to go back to our old way of training when I know I can get her quicker and better results with CF. Have any other trainers out there run into this with a client and how did you get over the hurdle and start integrating CF with a client like this?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Mike

Rich #7- I've tried several different combinations for the pull-up bar, but I finally built my own--dug two holes, got buckets of concrete, etc. If you have any outside space at all, it's worth it. At 285 lbs, I generate a lot of momentum & mine works fine.

hi all,
pertaining to the zone system - when they say:
X protein blocks
X carb blocks
2X fat blocks

-does this mean X fat blocks plus 2 more at each meal? or X fat blocks multiplied by 2 at each meal?

-so if my meal is otherwise 5P/5C/5F it would then become 5P/5C/7F? or 5P/5C/10F?

-answer is probably obvious
but advanced thank you for the clarification.

Stuart #37,
While the technology side is great and makes us more deadly(and thereby safer in the long run) it still takes people, and lots of them to fight a war. A good example of this is the U.S. border (I use this example because it has resonance in the current war). We can have all the sensors on the border that we want, but unless we have someone to go out and stop the things that are making the sensors go off, they really don't work. In my opinion, things would be closer to an end if we committed the man power necessary to prosecute a proper war. People to controll access into major cities, large enough groups to carry out a proper cordon and search etc... All of the UAVs in the world couldn't stop the flow of foreign insurgents into Iraq, and they can't win the war now.

As far as I am concerned the surge was a good idea... executed way too late. We should have started with 5 times the troops on the ground that we did, but due to the (apparent) influence of technology on the President's decision combined with his fear of looking imperialistic, we didn't. It's is easy to arm chair QB this now, and talk about all of the woulda shoulda couldas, but the answer comes down to not haveing the available man power to get it done. To all of the milpers that are going to read this, please don't take offense, I was (and in my heart will always be) a NavSof guy, so you can rest assured that I am not laying the blame for this at the feet of the E-6 or the O-4, this is much larger than that and I wouldn't deign to insult you for the superior job that you do. Our leadership is in more fear of public perception then they are of the enemy that has already displayed a willingness to knock on our door, I say F@#k public opinion, if you are going to war you better make damn sure that you are commited to do what it takes to win, not do what it takes to make sure some guy in France or Germany think your a nice person, then again I guess that didn't work out so well;-)

Mac #47--as a retired green beanie ( and former Marine) I appreciate your comments today, especially the notion that we need to be there, and finish what we've started. My son is on his second tour in Afganistan, after two in Iraq and he would agree with you.

Sometimes we need to be reminded--"All it takes for evil to rule the world is for a few good people to do nothing."

Semnper Fi back atcha!

Hmmm! Haven't posted in months--been posting on the message board-- since I've been working one/two weeeks behind the WOD, but I need some advice. Has anybody lost any "real" weight with the zone or paleo diets--I'm talking 70+ lbs?

CF is the single greatest factor in my improved fitness, both because of the difficulty (I'm still stuck on Puppy versions, mostly), and because the variation keeps boredome very far away. Plus, I learn something every time I read or listen to an article. If I can get this weight off, I'll be one movin'-on grandpa. Thanks, guys!

I'd like to echo the comments about POSE - WTF? Their entire approach to basic dynamics is patently flawed. How can anyone take it seriously when after years of developing their method, they still can't explain it properly. To put it bluntly, the lecturer in this clip doesn't understand the meaning of "force", "torque", energy, work, muscle mechanics, etc. The list goes on.

Here you go: land lightly and pull the ground under your body. Trying to land lightly means you expend less energy jumping up and down when what you're really trying to do is move forward quickly. Pulling the ground under your body puts your feet in the correct position for most efficient effort.

As you land (lightly) your feet should already be initiating the pull. Your knee should be slightly bent and your foot (almost) beginning rearward motion. Think of the pull when skateboarding. There you go. Efficient running at its most basic.

POSE seems to be taking what kids do naturally and patent it so they can try to make money off it. Of course, in order to make it seem like they are giving real value they need to over complicate it with concepts even they don't understand.

Please, take the basic ideas (which can be covered in 1 minute) and leave the 13 extra minutes of bullcrap on the cutting room floor.

On another note - another excellent rest day article. Thanks coach.

Adam

Mike #53,
I think an important element of being a good trainer is being able to package what a client needs and will get them results into something that they want and will enjoy. For those that enjoy CF workouts, the answer is simple - give them CF workouts, because you know it will provide them with the results they want packaged in workouts and exercises they enjoy (that's truly the beauty and genius of CF). For those that do not enjoy the workouts but are still very serious about seeing results, it takes some creativity.

An important point with clients that aren't too keen on CF workouts is what about them do they not like? Is it the intensity? The exercises? The competitive nature? The lack of isolation exercises they have grown to love over the years? The fact that learning new skills and movements will make them feel a bit clumsy? If you can identify what it is exactly about the workouts that they don't enjoy, try to eliminate that component while keeping as much of the other CF principles intact.

For example, I have a 62 year old female client who is very serious about seeing results but has a history of major knee and neck problems. Many movements that I like to incorporate into my clients' programs are not possible with her. So, while the movements themselves are not always the same, most of the other principles are still incorporated into her workouts.

What is it exactly that she does not enjoy about the workouts?

keep it up w/ the beer talk! - just enjoyed some Beck's Oktoberfest last night :)

#26 Alex - how long have you ran in 5fingers and do you definitely recommend them? Do you run w/ the classic or sprint? I was leaning towards the sprint. Do you wear them as everyday shoes outside of running? What did you do to slowly build into the fivefingers, weaning yourself of running shoes? Thanks!

wod #9
did free beginners class at the nyc black box today.
21/15/9 air snatch, pull ups, air cleans. 10:?? My snatches sucked and I lost count. Been doing this at home a few weeks and I thought I knew a thing or two.. was like the first day all over again. Would suggest anyone doing wod's on their own to make it to a crossfit gym for pro instruction. full snatch, clean instruction for an hour, with a bonus kipping and L sit session thrown in. Great instruction to correct faults. Thanks!

Just did a "Tabata This" charity event at the local Crossfir affiliate. Pretty good time, and while I canked my pullups (8,8,8,8,8,6,5,4), overall I feel I did pretty well. My partner and I had a combined score in the 90s (final results coming later I believe). Not too shabby for Pullups, Pushups, Situps, Squats, Rowing. Took a long time to recover too. Good times on a sunny Saturday in Northern Virginia...

Ok I've followed Crossfit for a little over a year,,, from a distance, reading the site, journal articles etc. I finally got over myself, and my memories of when I had respectable strength and began the "Beginner's Workout" program. Well, I actually partially began two weeks ago but this is the first week I fully stuck with it. The first 3 days were painful,, sort of,, but what do you expect? I also felt a high and an energy that I haven't in a while. I know I'm preachin to the choir, but this is cool!!. I'm actually looking forward to hitting it again next week.

Brad D (#24)

Actually, that's not correct.

Since torque is really the time rate of change of canonical angular momentum, and canonical angular momentum can be expressed in any coordinate system and units desired, torque is not always distance times force.

There is nothing fundamental about units of measure, they're just a matter of convenience. You can just as easily measure length in MeV (by setting c = h-bar), or even forgo any pretense of dimensional analysis by setting c=G=h-bar = 1.

We always end up picking units that are easy to work with for the problem at hand.

Hari (#45):

The real measurement of work, of course, would be in the force*distance in your individual muscle fibers. (This also matches the thermodynamics definition since your muscles emit heat.)

This is a common question in physics classes: if I hold a weight up, I'm doing no work, yet I certainly feel tired! For the mechanical system considering you and the weight as a rigid body, that's correct, there is no work. However, you and the weight are not a rigid body (and special relativity rules out perfectly rigid bodies). The contraction in your muscle fibers do perform work, and that's the measure that should be considered in a thermodynamic, if not mechanic, system.

Did the warm up today at home for a workout. Not very easy when your three year old is rolling under and jumping on top of you when your doing push ups (weighted push ups :) ), and trying to pull your drawstring on you pants when your doing squats.
Happy rest day! Hmmmm...maybe rest days should be Zone cheat days....

M/47/150
Comeback Day #2

WU incl. Assisted PU

From an affiliate:
3 Rounds for Time
100 Double-unders
50 Sit-ups
50 Back ext

31:13

3rd set of DU's took forever

Re:Zone questions
1) Allison: I agree with DJ and others above. Zone "cheat" meals seem to work much better when it's the volume, the number of blocks that constitutes the cheat. DJ works in a beer (or three!) on the weekends. Last night I had a second glass of wine to go with a 9 oz. Kobe burger (4 oz. more than my typical 5 block dinner, but the meal remained within Zone principals). "Cheats" like chocoloate cake, especially a WHOLE chocolate cake just delay the withdrawal from the crack. Later on a single piece of Godiva will be...well, let's just say that this is a family-friendly site and I'm embarassed to say just how good it would be...

2) Peejay 2 # 62: Yup, loads of folks, here and elsewhere. If you are going to lose weight you need to not only eat within Zone proportions you must adhere to 1x fat blocks and EAT FEWER BLOCKS. Sorry, no shortcut for this one.

3) Ki #59: 2x fat = 2 times fat. Therefore an Athlete's Zone diet that calls for 2 x fat would mean 10 blocks of fat in a 5 block meal. The idea is to burn fat as a preferential fuel by (relatively) restricting carbs. For example I think I read that Brendan and Nicole are soewhere in the 4-5 x fat range right now, but Brendan's pre-weight gain diet was 17 or 18 Zone blocks/day.

Hope that's helpful.

Noah Schachtman has written a thoughtful, provocative and -- dare I say it? -- "nuanced" article on what's become of "network-centric warfare."

I recall reading the original network-centric article in "Proceedings" in 1998 and wondering whether the authors' unbridled faith in technology was fully warranted.

OTOH, despite his best efforts, Schactman seems to tilt just a bit too far in the opposite direction. Network centric warfare should be seen in its proper perspective: as one of many tools. Every conflict is different, and so is the weight that should be attached
to the network centric concept.

I was especially taken with this (almost throwaway) line in Shachtman's piece:
" Only recently did infantrymen like the ones in Fallujah even get their own radios."
So we seem to have a disconnect between high-falutin' ideas, selectively implemented, and the day-to-day reality of neglecting small things that could make a big difference.

Is this a case of using fancy plays at the expense of basic blocking and tackling? Or do the "big picture, big concepts" ideas sometimes work? It would be interesting to hear from people with first hand experience.

Dropping the bar after a deadlift; I remember one of Coach's talks about people emailing him about things like "shouldn't teach gymnastics in tennis shoes" and "that woman's toes should be pointed L-sit" and refered to these emails, and his replies, as "f-you letters" or some-such... So what's the difference about dropping the bar after a deadlift? Is it dangerous? Does it negate any of the training benefit of the DL? I agree that touch-n-go's are sub-par, but that is because it loses the basic form/benefit of starting from a dead stop. A partial ROM pullup loses efficacy, but doing a proper pullup and then just dropping off the top doesn't make it fail to count.

According to just about every article, vid and quote on this site... If it isn't about the efficacy or safety of a lift, it is just purist B.S.

DJ - try some Sweetwater 420, Atlanta's best beer. and one of my favorites.

also, anything by Abita brewery out of New Orleans. Abita Amber is my personal favorite beer, probably followed by Dortmunder Gold out of Cleveland, Sweetwater 420 from Atlanta, and Six Point Toasted Lager from Brooklyn. oh, and Yeungling, of course. Yum...

#20

OP-SEC

OPSEC!

Gnat, is trying to avoid moving target; i.e. 3 yr.son, like doing push ups on a ball? Plus "weighted" squats? You give perserverance a new meaning:)

"Girls Gone Wild / Ladies Night"

Run 400m
21 KB swings 16kg
12 Pull-ups
Run 400 m
15 Deadlifts 135lbs
15 HSPU nose to 2 abmats
Run 400m
30 Wall Balls 15 with 14lbs , 15 with10lbs
30 Box Jumps 20"
Run 400m
15 OHS 65lbs

26:50!

GNat: I use my 2 year old brother when I can't get to the gym sometimes. He loves thrusters :)

He deadlifted my 20 lb kettlebell the other day. He naturally did it with perfect form. Very interesting. He does air squats and tries to do burpees when I do them. Babies and kids copy what they see. I should workout in front of him more often to set a good example :) I love that littleBoo

#76 Good to see you training on the rest day-will pay for linda tomorrow tho!

35 m 195lbs CFT 985

made up for yesterday pullup ladder

10 plus new pr

3 mile run on the upramps of a parking garage

Just thought you guys might want to check out this great new program developed in New York. hmmmm... seems abit familiar?
http://edgegyms.com/PowerHit.htm

Allison #76- Cute! Krista over at stumptuous.com says to watch little kids for squat form. They always do it perfectly.

Because of a bit of a lower back strain, I've been taking it easy. Feeling better, so I made up Elizabeth today, with modifications for my back.

21-15-9
55lb Hang power clean
Dips, first 4 of each round were real, then assisted

Oops... did that in 10:45.

31/f/158/68"

tried to make up the pullup ladder, but when i got to the playground, i realized i forgot my watch. so i did a pullup, took 10-20" rest, then did another -- and so on till failure. i got 10 reps! i couldn't do 1 pullup last week. this is so freaking awesome!

and its amazing that i can see how so many exercises lead to success in others -- like how putting my hand to the ground on GHD situps helped me kip up to get that last 6" of my pullup. i was so thankful as i left the playground today -- thankful to coach for his mindful prescription and to this odd online community that keeps me going. so, thank you -- all of you! it means so much to me!

then i wanted to do something that would make me sweat, but that i could do at my apartment, so i did 2 rounds of "Fight on Friday".

"Fight on Friday"
30 splay
30 pushups
30 situps
30 squats
30 splay with a 1-2 punch
2 rounds
23:32

that workout is a freakin' bear and i only did 2 rounds (3 rx'd). it was exactly what i needed.
ck

I do NOT have a MIL background. However, I believe that Americans would definitely be doing themselves a service if they study military science.

Sun Tzu: "Military action is important to the nation-it is the ground of death and life, the path of survival and destruction, so it is imperative to examine it."

Mac #47: You are spot on when you say scores of lives have been saved regardless and how we shouldn't depend on technology as a crutch. "Machines don't fight wars. People do, and they use their minds." -Col. John Boyd

The question shouldn't be: what is the most advanced technology, but instead should be what is the most effective? Military science is something that can easily be transfered to the marketplace, starting with management/leadership.

Regardless, we must learn to adapt to environment, whether it be outside the Green Zone, or to Mike Leach's Ace Rip play or doing Fran as prescribed. You must not see things as you wish to see them, but as they are. "A is A."

We must get inside the Decision Cycle and learn to out-think our opponent. The OODA Loop has commercial application, in addition to military. When we realize that we must continually learn and grow, then we shouldn't have to worry about failing to adapt to a hostile environment. Just my observation...

jNeal

wow, just out of rythmn. new business, new relationship, which means not neccesarily eating great. Oh well, having fun, but just not as strong as I feel I should be.

catching up on the 3k, started strong ended... uggh. Tomorrow is another chance to get back on track.

I do NOT have a MIL background. However, I believe that Americans would definitely be doing themselves a service if they study military science.

Sun Tzu: "Military action is important to the nation-it is the ground of death and life, the path of survival and destruction, so it is imperative to examine it."

Mac #47: You are spot on when you say scores of lives have been saved regardless and how we shouldn't depend on technology as a crutch. "Machines don't fight wars. People do, and they use their minds." -Col. John Boyd

The question shouldn't be: what is the most advanced technology, but instead should be what is the most effective? Military science is something that can easily be transfered to the marketplace, starting with management/leadership.

Regardless, we must learn to adapt to environment, whether it be outside the Green Zone, or to Mike Leach's Ace Rip play or doing Fran as prescribed. You must not see things as you wish to see them, but as they are. "A is A."

We must get inside the Decision Cycle and learn to out-think our opponent. The OODA Loop has commercial application, in addition to military. When we realize that we must continually learn and grow, then we shouldn't have to worry about failing to adapt to a hostile environment. Just my observation...

jNeal

To everyone:

I'm sorry for posting twice. I accidentally mashed the button twice. This is my first post so please forgive my faux pas. Thank you for understanding.

44/M/6'/185

DID OVER HEAD SQUAT PRACTICE TODAY.

35 AT 95 POUNDS.
REST FOR 15 MIN.
20 AT 135 POUNDS.

THEN PUT UP CHRISTMAS LIGHTS IN YARD, SAT DOWN WITH MY DOG AND HAD A BEER. GOOD DAY!

RURAL/METRO FIRE DEPT.
TUCSON, AZ.

Sorry for accidentally adding the extra post. I goofed.

SWIM: 950 yards

5 Rounds:'
10X Tricept Curls/125lbs
10X Tricept Press/125lbs
30X V-Ups (Abs)
20X Flies w/ 25lbs DB

4 Rounds:
40X Sit-ups (High Slant)
40X Kettleball Juggling w/30lbs DB

Great article. After three years and counting in Iraq, I have come to these conclusions:

- Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Wolfowitz were the worst people to be in charge during a time of crisis.

- Paul Bremer is a close second

Good news: The US military, its officers and enlisted people have finally come around to the fact that "Might doesnt make Right."

Our arrogance of technology will never triumph over the individual soldier who can move, shoot, and communicate (not with tech) effectively.

For Thanksgiving, I'm thankful there is less than 14 months left in a failed presidency, and whomever the next will be, will not repeat the last.

#79 - Chris

I have a feeling you are saying this site is ripping off Crossfit, but I don't really see it. Sure there are some Crossfit type exercises listed on the site, but there are also a lot of traditional body building exercises. The look of the gym has a lot of machines and such which you certainly would not find in a Crossfit gym. Their emailing workouts to you just seems like a good idea for a more techno friendly crowd. Finally, the pull up video is strict, simply can't be Crossfit! So anyway, maybe some similarities, but I don't see any IP theft.

Beer!

Some of you beers guy should give Stone IPA a try. Very hoppy and damn good. I also like Storm King Stout, a very nice stout if you like the dark stuff.

Swam 1 mile in 35:00

So much for a rest day!

With all of the military people on this board, I'm surprised nobody mentioned that NAVY BEAT ARMY 38-3!!!!

That's my contribution for today.

USNA '91

Post held in filter around #65 or so. Thoughts on Zone included.

Beer: I've had some of the best beer in Park City, Utah. The Wasatch Brewing Company has about a dozen worth trying, if for no other reason than to see what a beer named "Polygamy Porter" might taste like. Their ads are pitch perfect: "Polygamy Porter...why have just one?" and "Polygamy Porter...bring some home to the wives".

I laught every time...

Neil(50)

1000 mtr row + 4 min jump rope

1000 mtr row + 21 kbs x 24 kg + 21 push ups
750 mtr row + 21 kbs x 24 kg + 21 push ups
500 mtr row + 21 kbs x 24 kg + 21 push ups

14.24 (1.31 faster than last time using 20 kg kbs)

Tough workout

Have a good one.

Saggy- I like some of the Abita brews. Actually, I drank some 420 earlier in the week. Both good brews. I drank a wheat verion they have similiar to Blue Moon. Stone IPA is good as well as noted above. My true favorite is Karl Straus's brews in San Diego. YUM! What better way to finish a siminar then sitting around the table with some of the best people you know, let alone best trainers, drinking Karl's Red Trolley or Oktoberfest. Even my man Mark Rippetoe liked their stout. When in a pinch though, Guinness still makes you strong.. Especially when drank with some Jameson. Lol.. I write this while drinkng a Coors Light watching football because it's more Zone friendly. Arrgghh!

F/25/104

made up crossfit total today and my performance was absolutely appalling.

back squat 155
shoulder press 65
deadlift 155 (wtf..?)

total 375

squat was decent but i was expecting more out of the press. As for DL I don't know what happened. 175 last time and was expecting a PR but could not get even that. Weird day.

i did get 10 kipping pullups in a row which is a record. I shouldn't even be doing them due to inner elbow pain but it is like now that i can string a few together i am addicted and cannot pass a pullup bar by.

tomorrow : total rest and extra food

All this beer talk is making me thirsty. I can't stomach Coors Light though no matter how zone friendly it is. If the zone is good for you and Guinness is good for you then it must be zone friendly right?

#53 Ben,

Yes, I do try to take care of my calouses by filing them down. When I did the workout yesterday, I didn't have any big calouses and I still tore the skin way down in the middle of my palm. I'll have to try Hari's suggestion in comment #43 about getting a good grip and using chalk. I usually do try to take a few seconds to get a good grip, but I haven't been using chalk much. I also usually find that I need to adjust my grip while doing the pull-ups. I usually do this when I'm weightless at the top of the pull. I think it has helped a little, but it still hasn't stopped me from ripping up my hands.

rest day

warm up
30 jumping muscle ups
3x5 strength training for shoulder press
160 1rm so 80% 3x5 at 125 start goal is 200lb 1rep in 8 weeks

If you are in the Ohio area try the Great Lakes brand beers. Great Lakes brews a consistent four or five beers and always has a seasonal beer in production. My favorite seasonal is one they brew and distribute for the early fall. It is called Nosferatu after the German Vampire. It tastes great and if I remember correctly it has over 8% alcohol so it has the desired effect too.

Fight Gone Bad (at Orillia open house)

Subbed weights(due to eqpt issues and to keep weights manageable for other guys)

Wall ball 20# 10 ft
SDLHP 65#
Box jump (I think it was lower than 20", maybe 16", but def lower than my 24" box)
Push press 65#
C2 rower

315pts

I started off too fast, and crashed somewhat on second round, but rebounded slightly on third (warmed up???). Will definitely pace for next time, and use Rx'ed weights. Not bad considering knee was feeling off (for box-jumps) and having to yell at my kids running rough-shod around James' gym (may have to do a CF-Hickory style day care service (duct tape + wall = day care ;} )

AL

missed yesterday's so made up a workout for today
100 push-ups 34 pull-ups 15 dowel ohs
75 push-ups 33 pull-ups 15 dowel ohs
50 push-ups 33 pull-ups 15 dowel ohs

time 36:52
i realize i suck at push-ups and pull-ups because this took way longer than it should have.

32 yom bwt 245

HC2 in melbourne Fl. had a free workout in the park today, damn good time. Tabata seem to be chinese for, your gonna puke. (just a thought)

missed the last 2 wod's with school and work so today i did painstorm xxviii as punishment...
For time:
800 M Run
50 Box jumps, 20"
10 Pull ups
40 Overhead squats(45#)
10 Pull ups
30 Thrusters 95#
10 Pull-ups
20 Handstand push ups
10 Pull ups
10 Muscle ups
10 Pullups
400 M Run
10 Pullups
10 Muscle ups
10 Pull ups
20 Handstand push ups
10 Pull ups
30 Thrusters 95#
10 Pull ups
40 Overhead squats 45#
10 Pull-ups
50 Box jumps 20"
800 M Run

1hr 16min
the second round of mu's is definetly my limiting factor. still took 3 min's off my last time.

#73 Jabber

I tried to strike a balance between telling it the way it is from my point of view without violating opsec, which is why I tried to stick to generalities, things that had already been announced in the news (such as how CF troops in Afghanistan are getting more wired) and facts that I felt were "safe." I'm not perfect so I may have goofed but I hope not.

36yom/6'/205

We did the US Tac WOD:

2x
50 Pull Ups
50 Thrusters 45#
Run 1 mile (heavy hills)

gnarly

#94, MB,

Also see the article at this link, which just happened to be posted by Keith W on the Black Box site today:

http://www.brownsgym.com/resources/article1.htm

I think its funny when politicians and others say that we have lost in Iraq. They fail to realize that the military is conducting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan with which they are unfamiliar and have very little formal training (infrastructure engineering, establishing local governments, providing humanitarian aid, etc). There are no battle drills for the common combat arms unit for handing out MREs to locals. Bottom line is that the military is being asked to do much more than it knows how to do. It is learning quickly and it is doing a great job with what it has. I wonder what it would be like if some of those OGAs (Other governmental agencies) like the State Department used their expertise and did their job overseas? There is no obligation to serve overseas in alot of those OGAs. An issue that the politicians who complain about Iraq don't think about. Send any comments
Cheers

Definately need this rest day. Work at the unit has me drained.

As for the article: Excellently written, in depth and very descriptive.

This is definately a problem our armed forces must deal with. For the longest time we trained to fight only a major, organized military force and the "technological military" everyone was cooing over would have been perfect for that, and it was against front line Taliban and Iraqi forces.

But what it wasn't geared to deal with was guerilla warfare. Technology can't deal with different societies and cultures. That is where the military made it's first mistake. They subsequently fixed this by implementing training that taught greater cultural awareness including situational training exercise (or STX) lanes in which leaders and their subordinates were forced to deal with the stresses of both combat and cross-cultural relations.

Technology can't fix everything, especially because technology is falible. What happens if that GPS gets destroyed? That's why we're taught basic day and night land nav skills with nothing but a compass, protractor, and map.

It should be (and is transforming into) the same for guerilla warfare. The biggest problem we face is the ability of the Army (and military as a whole) to change. It is 2007 and we are JUST changing training from Vietnam era training to more modern training. Why does it take that long? Sure, the Army's the big green machine (and I love my big green machine :D) but in a variable, ever changing world the Army as a whole must be able to adapt quickly and effectively (not always efficiently) to deal with new threats.

Now maybe this is happening and at my level I just can't see it, but history has shown the Army to be very slow to change.

Thanks U'i for the support! You probably know what thats like! (although your kids are older and would be much heavier haha)
AllisonNY- I do thrusters with my 3 year old too. And deadlifts when he's throwing a fit and pretends like he can't get up so I have to pick up his dead weight, etc! I use Crossfit in my everyday life. I love it when I am doing a work out and my kids come in and start doing it with me. They can out squat me any day! My 7 year old son wants to do Olympic lifts so badly so I'm looking for a 15# bar but haven't found one yet. Anyone know where to find one?

38/M/170, cyclist.

Road my rollers an hour today at a good pace to get my heart rate up a little...

Re: Torque.
I am similarly bugged by POSE's misuse of the word. And, whether I am justified or not, it raises a concern for me that they might be trying to pull wool over people's eyes by using semi-technical language. I may have a chance in January to attend a clinic, and I will be there with a more skeptical eye just because of this video.

And a slight quibble with Adam G (#69): While torque applied to a system does have the effect of changing that system's angular momentum, the applied torque is not typically *defined* to be that rate of change. Rather, it is, as others said earlier, the cross product between the applied force and its moment arm... similar to the relationship between force and linear momentum. That is, the big deal of Newton's second law of motion was not that he *defined* force to be the rate of change of momentum, but rather that he saw the relationship between these two independently obtainable quantities.

Michael,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your "quibble" is wrong, as any basic physics textbook will tell you, for example, Goldstein's mechanics.

See also definitions here:

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Torque.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

The time rate of change of angular momentum is actually the more fundamental definition of torque, as derived from Noether's theorem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

I should further note you can solve a problem for torques and forces, using Lagrangian or Hamiltonian dynamics, without ever seeing or using a vector.

did the crossfit workout on navyseals.com 2 rounds of 50 thrusters 50 pull-ups and run 1mile.
i saw visions of pukie..... 27:12
#92 cant be serious about call this administration a " failed presidency" How many terror attacks did we go thru under Clinton??? That perv just pawned off the tough job of defending this country on Dubya.
Liberalism is a mental disorder-Michael Savage

Didn't read everything, so I won't respond to anything.

The following is a Dr. Bronnerish mishmash of a lot of random thoughts.

You know what is better than being omnipotent? Being invisible. Is it better to hide your valuables in a supposedly inpenetrable safe, or in a place no one can find? Is it not safer yet not to have anything worth stealing?

That is solid Taoist thinking.

There is a continuum one can draw between the warmest of friendships, and shooting wars. You can draw a line where relations get colder and colder. At one point you want to kill someone, and at another you actually do.

The military traditionally has viewed its function as separate from that of the diplomats, from what I can tell. The diplomats talk, and at a certain point they hand the baton to the soldiers, and say "we give up; go kill someone". At a certain point in the campaign, the soldiers give the baton back to the diplomats and say "Go settle something; we'll hold things down here." War as an extension of diplomacy.

Network centered warfare basically means that we can kill anyone anywhere at any time. However, the need to do so is in most cases a failure in my view.

Do we want victory or do we want peace? We shot for victory in Iraq, and we got it, but we did not get peace, and it was in large measure our fault. We failed to understand the ground that mattered, the Human terrain, which they have obviously realized, as shown in the name given the new teams.

Read your Sun Tzu: Terrain, weather, leadership, Tao, logistics, and I believe that is it. Terrain here is social, weather is timing. Our timing now, after Al Queda had their turn, is good. Our leadership is good. Our Tao is not good, in that we have significant divides--irrational, unprincipled divides--in our body politic. We have people, who want us to believe they are patriotic Americans, who literally want us to fail in Iraq so as to make the election of a Democrat more likely.

Logistics are decent and improving. In an informational war, in a war in which the means of exerting force--fighting--is selling ideas, our provisions are alligators, and what they bring us is information that allows us to continue and better target the fight.

This thing, at this point, is a slam dunk if we can keep the Left from forcing us into failure. Not only can we succeed in Iraq, but in so doing build a model for the Middle East which can be exported. The Iranians want to export the 9th Century. We want to export self rule, genuine justice, and economic well being. Most Arabs, given a choice, are going to choose the latter, provided we don't force them to negate their core beliefs, and frankly I'm largely on their side with respect to much of the corrupting influence of popular culture. That need not be part of it.

We may just find a few George Washington's out there, and maybe a John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, if we are intelligent enough to translate what they are saying into our terms.

Bottom line: the Arabs, for the sake of their own well-being, need to figure out how to reinvent themselves, and that process will begin in Iraq, if we just stick to our guns.

What we are doing is right, and the way we are doing it is getting better every day.

I was just taking down some of my notes, and this came up. Again a bit random, but I'll let it fly since I'm busy:

The whole notion of chaos could easily be applied to war. War is messy, you will have aberrations outside what you would want to be normal . This does not however falsify the value or reality of principles.

Classical and Guerilla wars are in many respects the same. Your goal in both is to take from the enemy what he wants, and give him what he doesn’t want (like sudden and violent death), and thereby shrink possible areas of operations to where they quit. Surround enemy and then destroy them. Reduce their options as much as possible. It’s a shrinking process.

Counterinsurgency is taking from them what they want, which is popular support, and unimpeded ability to operate. Both are examples of chaotic systems defined by principles. Ethics make sense since it reduces the cost to the enemy of failure.

Re Schachtman: Social Networking?

The mission given MNF-Iraq was to defeat Saddam’s army. Mission accomplished. Mop up target was a pack of 52 enemy leaders. But wait!

Remember Hawkeye behind the sandbags, reading the instructions for disarming the bomb to his gang at the bomb? Hawkeye yells, "Cut the Yellow Wire. [Turn the page.] But first … ". Boom!

Saddam was the yellow wire. Al Qaeda was the “but first …” surprise. The President was not shy about repudiating any nation building mission before the invasion.

So we sat around for a couple of years on a mountain of Iraqi munitions, giving Saddam wannabes time to organize fairly dangerous guerilla actions against soft targets to disrupt any democracy (why can’t they be like us?) and stoke the Reids, Pelosis, McCains, and Murthas.

The lesson of Phase I in Iraq never got updated after the deck was dealt (with). Only now is Petraeus sneaking it in.

If we must do nation building, then let the Iraqis do it. If they thought they could build an atomic bomb, then they should be able to rebuild a power station. Meanwhile, we should: Take over al Jazeera, but not with CNN, of course. Vaporize al Sadr. Control the borders. When a truck comes in with munitions, put a tracker on it and its escorts, and let them pass!

Re Schachtman: Rumsfeld’s Network Centric Warfare?

Rumsfeld had a vision for the military. The forces would be lighter weight and faster to respond to modern threats. Instead the services were preparing to fight large armies, and air and sea armadas, World War II with better looking hubcaps and overalls. DOD was designing itself to count bodies and pull triggers from the safety of the Pentagon -- McNamara and Vietnam all over again. The legacy generals and admirals fought Rumsfeld tooth and nail, and still do. This was perfect for the get-Bush-at-all-costs Democrats, and eventually Bush obliged them by putting Rumsfeld's head on a pike.

Our ability to fight an efficient war had been handicapped by independent services that hadn’t vertically organized to complete a mission since the Air Corps divorced the Army. The Pentagon was designed for Air Force vs. Air Force and cities, Navy vs. Navy and islands, and Army vs Army and villages. A coordinated attack proved impossible because the services couldn't communicate with one another. Besides, the legacy generals and admirals didn't want to. So we'd call in an airstrike to support a pinned-down battalion. Support would arrive two days late, under-loaded, to take out too many friendlies. This came to be known as the communications interoperability problem.

The upgrade was as certain as science could be. The military needed a Network! The perfect model was the Internet with its esoteric, seven level, all digital, high speed, wideband, DARPA-invented architecture. From an engineering standpoint, this was as state-of-the-art as possible. Affordability, implementation, training, and especially timeliness were below the line. Still, it had bureaucracy and technology backing and momentum even before Rumsfeld, and in spite of him. He seems to have just rolled it up in his modernization model.

What has been little noticed is that the Internet is a model chock full of bum dope. Why, it's almost as bad as the news business, except that the news business is largely collectivized and hence monotonic (monotonous). A fine communication system can't tell the military either who the enemy is or which one he is in a crowd of natives. What a fine communication system can do is empower the modern major generals to micromanage combat. THAT's what went wrong in Vietnam!

A feature of the American soldier that has made him so effective is his independence. He has been almost impossible to hold captive. He has taken over when his lieutenant or sergeant fell. He has reorganized his unit into an effective team when isolated. Perhaps this is the breeding of self-sufficiency that comes from American style freedom and free enterprise. He is not a victim going in. He is not a packet in a network, automatically shuttled here and there. Micromanagement is the last thing we need. It is the hidden danger in NCW, if we ever get there.

Re Schachtman: War Almost Lost?

We almost lost the war when Kerry and Gore were almost elected President. We almost lost the war when the Democrats almost gained 60 seats in the Senate with a Republican in the White House. We never came close to defeat in any combat theater since we re-armed for WWII.

The critical social network relates to target designation, where the targets are individual Jihadist soldiers blending in with the local populations. This poor targeting is lack of a strategy, which must be decided by the President, but is not.

Bush was dead set against a nation building mission. When the people of Iraq proved unable to rise up with an effect democracy, his hand was called. He was finessed into a nation building mission for the military, and it has been written into doctrine with the Counterinsurgency Manual.

Nation building is a holding action, waiting for the Iraqis to become an effective democracy. The battlefield is a matter of attrition, hit-and-run from the Jihadists and be hit-and-hide for the crunchies.

Now Petraeus is taking out al Qaeda leadership, with fine early results. Next he should target al Sadr, Wahhabi leadership, Iranian and Syrian leadership, al Jazeera, and the leadership of any other group actively opposed to a democratic Iraqi government. These are cancer cells, sure to bloom while we bask in al Qaeda victories.

Petraeus might be able to finesse Bush into an effective, efficient war.

Re Schachtman: Technology Weakness?

Technology!? Network-Centric Warfare is a dream; the technological reality is GPS, laser pointers, and precision guided munitions. MNF-Iraq pounded Saddam’s troops into the sand with relentless pin-point attacks for a couple of sleepless weeks while the ground forces raced across the sand at Rumsfeld speed. When they arrived, the enemy was only fit to flee, and the collateral damage was minimal. A big surprise was how many Baghdad assets were still standing to protect.

Today, "If I know where the enemy is, I can kill it. My problem is I can't connect with the local population." Robert Scales. Schachtman, Page 3. So, the population needs to be on the Network!? No. The military has a bigger problem: who is the enemy first, then where.

Besides, Network-Centric Warfare doesn't put a laser dot on bad guys.

Re Schachtman: Networks as tenets of Strategy?

The strategy can’t be to kill grunts. It has to be about killing leaders, organizers, suppliers, and communications. Soldiers are classically expendable, especially Jihadists. They are Kamikazes. The first rule of warfare is to take from the enemy what he most cherishes, and not what he is willing to spend.

Collectivism is one of a couple of genetic diseases of democracy. Mussolini brought down Italian democracy as a socialist and journalist war hero. Collectivism is what happens to the people; dictatorship is what happens to the leader. The way to have stopped Nazism and Fascism was not to pick off individual brown shirts and black shirts, but to take out Hitler and Mussolini. Now the enemy is Islamo-collectivism. We need to take out the Al Sadrs, and the other troublemakers. When you’re infected with ants, you need to dig out the queens.

Defending the surge is difficult for a thoughtful individual. The surge is succeeding, but it is not going according to plan! The plan according to Petraeus' Counterinsurgency Manual is to secure a peace. It preaches a mix of "offensive, defensive, and stability operations", but in fact has almost no offensive provisions. What Petraeus did in the field is kill or capture 31 al Qaeda leaders, which he featured in his 9/10/07 address to Congress. That's a pretty effective start. Now he needs to start reducing Islam to a docile religion.

Glad to see i'm not the only one who disagreed with his definition of torque.

Found this article on the use of robots in combat. Seemed relevant: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2007/11/3036753

Checking in from Ft. Lee.

Jeff, great post but I wanted to correct you on just a couple issues. GEN Shinseki, not Donald Rumsfeld, is the one who envisioned the lighter more mobile Army, recognizing that we were configured to fight the Soviet Union after the cold war had ended. He launched the "Army Transformation" (planning preceeded Rummy under SECDEF Cohen) which has/is changing us from Heavy Divisions to Brigade Combat Teams that not only can deploy extremely quickly but also can be configured in a plug & play type of modularity. On the logistics end, we continue to improve our org structures, sytems, and delivery models (ex. implementing JIT and "factory to foxhole" delivery models have greatly reduced the "Iron mountains" of supply parts. Thorough aggressive contracting we can now track shipping containers of supply as they move through theater by simple RF tags that get pinged along the supply routes & bases, the data getting automatically upload to a central server for real time reporting. We're not quite FedEx yet, nor will we ever be, but we certainly have the greatest military ever seen in many different respects.

also, from my POV saying "coordinated attacks proved impossible because the services couldn't communicate with one another" isn't true. I think Desert Storm/Desert Shield was a good example of this. Commo & coordination b/w Services is obviously tricky & has it's practical limits, but I'd venture to say that we do Joint Operations as well or better than anyone. Division staff could speak better to that issue though.

Although GEN Shinseki called for much higher troop levels, I think Rumsfeld was caught between a rock & a hard place. Operation Desert Storm utilized 450,000 combined troops. That's pretty close to the entire Army right now including Reserve & National Guard & we still maintain a pretty good footprint in other areas of the world. I think we had 1.6 million during the Reagan years. So I don't think the criticism of Rumsfeld was fair when che ommented about "you don't go to war with the military you want ..."

The thing that drives me nuts is that there are a whole lot of Monday morning quarterbacks who will say "we should've done this", or "we should've done that". Truth is, at that point in time, that may have failed as well. I don't think AQ or the Sunni Insurgency was preventable. Not at all. IMO it had to run it's course - and either get stamped out, sputter out, or succeed. People in that part of the world are very suspicious & will maintain conspiracy delusions better than anyone. They'll believe anything bad they hear about us on Al jazeera, or at the mosque, or from any of the victim propagandists. It's only after they see us operating for a year that they KNOW how we operate, and learn that we're not corrupt, that we're generous, that we don't fire unless fired upon, and that we're there to help - not occupy and enslave them. No tactic will make that happen immediatedly. It takes time. AQ helped us with this by providing such an evil juxtaposed contrast.

Sheepdawg007,

It would be more accurate to state that Democrats have done everything they could to undermine President Bush at every opportunity, but that we are in fact winning in Iraq in spite of them. He's been steadfast in his position regarding the GWOT, as opposed to Hillary who seems to have to consult the polls to have a position, even in the face of bitter and vile criticism.

Jeff Glassman a great insight. It is the fires of liberty that drive our warriors. The tears of relationship severed. The military fosters a way to harness the emotions of the warriors, but does it's damnedest to train the doctrine into the brain-stem.

For liberals who don't 'get' the military and view as Robots, you have only half the picture. The robot you see is a choice, that allows the fire in the belly to be exercised at the flip of a switch. With your emotions run wild, like the pinko that threw hot coffee at me on the KU campus, your decisions can lead to a significant emotional event. That day my flames were tamed by training. His life as he knew it, continued without permanent physical, mental, and emotional damage. It is that love of liberty and acceptance of violence controlled through training, that allowed him to walk away. He was dead to me and my training saved his life and my freedom.

Jeff touched on something at a Macro-level. Let me expound on that to the micro. Every warrior that is over there with a gun in hand is the weapon. Some more effective than others. Diplomats can go jump off a cliff. Those whining State department pukes are a disgrace. They meet with other diplomats and talk bargains and deals. The Soldier must deal with the people. That sort of flexibility does not grow on trees. That comes from liberty. That Soldier knows liberty and is willing to fight and kill for it, so other can get a chance.

I have said it before and here we go again. Given time and space the situation would get better. I said months ago that the people would turn on the thugs, and they did. This is not clairvoyance. It is the understanding of what liberty does to the soul. It fuels one through love and compassion to risk life and take life to protect it all for a hope that it will spread. It is the only way to have peace.

It is not natural to want to give up liberty for comfort. Everyone who does so feels ugly inside and tries to bring the rest down. Look at the nut cases in the street protests. Call it socialism, Marxism, communism, collectivism, or whatever. It boils the same. They are scared of life so someone has to give them a safety net. In turn, they relinquish their liberty to one or those that "know best". This time, it is Islam-o-collectivism as Jeff defines it. Good enough for me.

Same game. Find a figure head who will 'fight' for your 'rights' to make everyone else as pathetic as you. In so doing, you will turn a blind eye to their corrupt, brutal, and tyrannical ways, because they look out for you.

We almost lost Venezuela yesterday. All to a man who has people convinced he knows best and that he should never have to leave office. For his vision, is the only one that is just.

The American Soldier gets it. By temporally and voluntarily giving up some of his Liberty for a greater cause, he tastes tyranny only enough to recognize the vile smell. His love of liberty allows him to move seamlessly from follower to leader. From warrior to diplomat. From hunter to caretaker. All in moments. This is the gift liberty.

Time and space to let the people of Iraq immerse in liberty is the only true foothold we can hope for. Better late than ever.

also, the idea that insurgencies are not ever defeated is a lie. They historically take 8-10 years to dwindle. The populace needs time and space from being bullied by people that would kill them if they did not surrender their liberty to their fanatical ideas of how the way things ought to be.

Remember liberty is the natural state of man. All other expressions of existence are a result of fear. Without fear, people will embrace the concept of liberty and grow to cherish it, every time it is tried.

Sorry I was late to the party.

Joey

Post lost to the filter. It was long and took a while to write..so sad.

The Wired piece was fascinating, great stuff.
Jeff-
"Collectivism is what happens to the people; dictatorship is what happens to the leader."
Brilliant!