Dear Crossfit,

I was wondering, if it was not to much trouble, if you could post like Greg or Annies times for the WOD (if applicable). I would like to see how I stack up. I know other crossfitters post their time on the comments but I don’t know what kind of shape they are in. Age and weight do not do justice to what kind of shape they are in because sometimes my time is way better then people of similar age and weigh and other times way worse. I know I will likely never beat Greg or even Annie in any work out but I would like to know how close I am. I am sure a lot of others on here feel the same as I do. Thanks and keep up the good work.

Bill

cool video, enjoyed the commentary at the end. I really hope we don't see that one, wall balls suck enough with only 1 squat!

Okay Barry Bonds, your turn to fess up! Either do it on your own terms or have the screws turned on you.

What a shame to see these revelations occuring. Floyd Landis really didn't have a leg to stand on with all the recent press over steroid abuse.

I really liked those 2 fer 1's.

I fear that with the intense competition for fame and fortune in our professional and amateur sports that a great majority of the athletes we respect walk the fine line between taking "legal" supplements and cheating by using ""illegal" steroids.

This is my first entry since I got sick in june.I am just now able to get back with my cross fit family and start doing the workouts on a more limited scale.My illness almost crippled me but thanks to God and my cross fit health going into this I'm going to be stronger than before.How cool is that?My recovery is proof cross fit is about health as well as fitness.My Drs where and still are about how well my recovery has been and in know small part to my body being strong going into this illness.Thank you coach!And thanks to my son DJ for getting me started with crossfit.

All things considered, if she gets more the the 82 minutes Lindsey Lohan got I'll be outraged.

Bill Clinton lied to a grand jury. No problem!

Ted Kennedy left the scene of a fatal accident (felony hit and run) and didn't even get a traffic ticket.

Come on!

It's no surprise about Jones. It's no surprise about many olympic level and/or professional athletes who are accused of doping. I hope that this never surfaces in the MMA world, but I would assume that it will at some point.

I will make a wager, however, that anyone who is willing to accept the challenges of CrossFit and who dedicates their time, effort, blood, sweat, tears, torn callouses, and vomit to CrossFit will be the LEAST likely people to be involved with doping. CrossFitters may be the MOST likely people to be accused of it, but that is only until CrossFit takes over "traditional" training and gains wide-spread notoriety in the fitness world.

It is with the notoriety and recognition, followed by wide-spread participation and acceptance, that people will realize it is the real deal.

In reference to the end of the article and the "out-of-court" settlement bewteen Jones and Conte, - I hope he gets his money back.

Finally, while on the road recently I had just a few minutes to get a quick workout in, so I made up this one:

10 rounds for time of:

5 30inch box jumps
10 knees to elbows

Give it a shot.

...gotta love the Zeppelin....

KETTLEBELL question

Why does Crossfit use the American style swing? It seemed like Cotter and Pavel are really against it.

She and the vast majority of high calibre athletes are enhanced. It is what it is, right or wrong. My take is you can't have it both ways. Strip her of everything she won or give good ol' Ben Johnson back his gold. Nearly 20years later and I'm still pissed about that one...

The two 'fers wall ball look like fun, gonna try'em soon. Loved the acoustic version Led Zepplin's Stairway To Heaven where did you get it?

Good for you Gale. Welcome back. I had an asthma attack after running half a block before I started. Thanks to Crossfit I can run without a problem. Crossfit is amazing

Just looked at all of yesterday's comments as I get ready to catch up with todays WOD tomorrow morning. I think I'm going to bring a bucket with me to the gym.

Jones should have drank the kool-Aid instead of doping

She broke the rules, so I suppose she should get her medals stripped, but why on earth is the federal government spending money on prosecuting her?

Aren't there more pressing concerns than to stop grown adults from putting chemicals in their bodies? Department of Homeland Security is on the case?

Where does "performance enhancing drug" start and "supplement" end? She cheated, yes, but those were the rules.

For the rest of world, there really shouldn't be any legal restrictions on what people do with their own bodies (barring hurting someone else), if they want to risk their biochemical make-ups and health.

I feel bad about Marion Jones doping. I liked her. She seemed to be a nice person. On the further issue of performance enhancing drugs, with all the money, celebrity, and rewards that accrue to the big-time athletes, I think we'll see a lot more cheating in the future. We need to quit the worship of the athletes and celebrities and create real lives for ourselves.

Great post Dan D! It should come to no surprise to any of us that Jones was doping. Aside from doping, but all to related, it should also come to no surprise to any of us when pro or college athletes who seem to have it all continue to screw up. Society in general takes things for granted, but those of fame and fortune do it to an even higher extent. It is us everyday (or should I say every 3 days on and 1 off) crossfitters who do find the time, sweat, blood and puke who are the real athletes in life and I truly believe that. I personally have never taken part in any form of doping or dietary supplement of any kind and hope that all people who come across this website and navigate it thoroughly realize that "extracurricular help" simply is not needed. Some determination coupled with a little bit of motivation along with a whole lot of crossfit makes for some of the healthiest, purest and natural athletes in the world.

Just about to walk to the gym to do yesterdays WOD aka The L Pull Up Extravaganza.

Am I scared? Yes

Do I like being scared? Hell yes

I think I will be happy just finishing it.

Have a good weekend all

So I guess integrity really does matter. Who knew...

"I will make a wager, however, that anyone who is willing to accept the challenges of CrossFit and who dedicates their time, effort, blood, sweat, tears, torn callouses, and vomit to CrossFit will be the LEAST likely people to be involved with doping. CrossFitters may be the MOST likely people to be accused of it, but that is only until CrossFit takes over "traditional" training and gains wide-spread notoriety in the fitness world."

This is a weird thing to say. Jones was a professional athlete, you don't think she "dedicates her time, effort, blood, etc." to extremely sternous workouts multiple times per day? Sheesh. Glassman didn't invent this form of training. It's been around for a long time. He just put it in a freakin' sweet package for layfolks like me.

So I guess integrity really does matter. Who knew...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/sports/othersports/06rhoden.html?ref=sports

"Critics and fans may argue in coming days that they feel cheated. I don’t feel cheated at all by what Jones accomplished in 2000. In some ways, I feel the way I do when I listen to the saxophonist Charlie Parker playing an incredible solo, knowing that he was probably high on heroin at the very moment the recording was made. Drugs were not the source of his greatness. Similarly, Jones would have been great whether she used or whether she didn’t. We’ll never know how great, though, and, worse, she will never know."

If there is money or the prospect of money (endorsements) involved then people will attempt to get an "edge". Period. Unfortunately integrity is being sold pretty cheaply these days.

I'm consistently shocked by the number of "regular joes" I see in big-box gyms that are obviously on gear.

Been walking around for the last 5 days in a perpetual state of pain in my gluts and hamstrings having just started crossfitting last week for the first time. Kind of reminds me of two-a-days in football! When does the pain go away? This program is phenomenal...I appreciate the community format as well. Good "virtual" accountability! Oh, by the way I've been having to substitute running a quarter mile on the treadmill for the 400m run...pretty cheesy I know but plenty tough for this hombre!

Ugh. You know, I may not be very popular for what follows, but here it is.

I could not care less about Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Floyd Landis, any host of NFL, MLB, NHL, PGA or any athlete's personal choice to abuse/use performance enhancing substances. I dont care. I have never pretended to be the purist that thinks that these naked men and women shall meet in the Arena and best shall prevail. Even ameteur athletes stand to make money from doing well in their sport.

On the whole, it is my belief that true and complete altruism is a myth. This belief of mine transcends sport- I really believe that about humans as a whole. Humans are evil, vile creatures. Given a choice, humans will screw their neighbor for no good reason at all. The good ones, those people that do the right thing, struggle daily with temptation and the almost intrinsic desire for self preservation and promotion. How many times have you heard how hard it is to "do the right thing"? And I am not speaking of the Spike Lee movie, although it was painful to sit through- I digress.

People are liars, cheaters, thieves, etc. It used to make me laugh when people act so indignant when an athlete lies to your face and then "cries outside the courtroom and says she let down her family, her friends and her country." She didn't let ME down. She and I are good. This stuff doesnt make me laugh anymore. It's laughable, dont get me wrong. But now it invokes such a nihlistic response that my reaction is almost true non-reaction. I honestly don't care. I care almost as much about people cheating in sports- or anything, for that matter- as I do about Jessica Simpson's new haircut. Although that bob just frames her face so well...

I guess the bottom line is this- call me a pessimist. Call me a non-reactionary right wing republican that expects crime to be big everywhere, and call me an idiot for sizing people up in the grocery store because you never know what people are capable of.

Just dont expect me to get surprised when someone lies. And dont expect me to be extra hurt/judgemental/angry towards some d-list celebrity that wouldnt have won without cheating.

Gotta love the flamenco Stairway to Heaven, that's a new one for me. Those 2 fer 1's look brutal, who concocts these things?

Oh look, another decorated track athlete admits to using drugs. That's a real shocker.

no rest day on saturday for me. still catching up. see if i can wrap these abs around 90 L-pull ups but as gee-oh-coin points out, it may be the grip strength that fails me after the power cleans. bring on the fun.

Nice WOD on the video (and song- maybe.... Rodrigo y Gabriela?)

I've fallen in love with the way wall balls suck! 2 fer 1's could make me hate them again!

Thank you Nadia for the welcome today!

Wow. Sad. Not a surprise, which is sadder. The quote that killed me was, "“I have let them down,” she said. “I have let my country down, and I have let myself down. It is with a great amount of shame that I stand before you and tell you I have betrayed your trust."
If folks could just imagine themselves having to say that BEFORE they do whatever stupid thing it is they end up doing.

Matt

ZAC, nice work, sweet cheeks.

Ronnie Luvs Zach.

Freaky. I was just talking to one of my trainers this afternon about putting 2fer1's in a WOD on Sunday. He decided he wanted med ball clean/wall balls instead. Sick and demented either way. Nice workout Zach. Have a great rest day everyone.

To me, the Marion Jones admission just shows what the weight of guilt can do to a person. To publicly lie for years, with the constant fear that evidence will turn up or somebody who knows something will talk, has to take an excruciating toll on a person. I don't think I could take that. I guess some people can handle it and hide the truth for years, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Barry Bonds and others eventually admit guilt just because they can't take the constant pressure of hiding a lie?

Dont' hate Freddy... I love you too

Tim (Comment #21),

Weird as it may be, I must make a distinction about your reply and clarify what I said. I wrote that those who "...accept the challenges of CrossFit will be the least likely to be involved with doping" and I stand by that. What YOU questioned was whether or not she "'dedicates her time, effort, blood, etc.' to extremely sternous (sic) workouts multiple times per day?" The answer to your question is yes. She probably did do that. What she did not do was dedicate herself to CROSSFIT, which is what I wrote.

Contrary to the belief of the casual observer, CrossFit is more than a workout regimen. It has a family atmosphere. An atmosphere of friendly competition, not "competition" that will make someone rich or famous or the recipient of a gold medal. Although Coach might not like the term "cultish," there is a certain type of person drawn to CrossFit. More importantly, however, is that there are certain types of people who remain with and are dedicated to CrossFit. Meaning, being drawn to this website is not the same as dabbling in "CrossFit style workouts," as I often hear people say. And neither of those is the same as being dedicated to the principles of CrossFit.

The ideals of the dedicated CrossFitter include some basic concepts. These are just a few: Nothing is easy. It is not fun unless it is not fun. It is as hard as you make it. There's no reason, need or other motivation to lie or cheat.

That last line is illustrated beautifully by the fact that to date, to my knowledge, there have been no incidents of theft at any CrossFit gym. No one's wallet has gone missing. No one's kettlebells have disappeared. No bolts cut off of lockers.

Why not? Could it be that the dedicated CrossFitter, the ones who attend a CrossFit gym where only brutally difficult tasks in the name of sport and fitness and competition are conducted are not the same people who look for an easy way to success? (i.e. Steroids, Enhancers, Quick money, depriving someone else of something they worked hard for, Globo Gym Biceps using this great new machine etc)

And, to comment on your statement, "Glassman didn't invent this form of training. It's been around for a long time. He just put it in a freakin' sweet package for layfolks like me." I say the following:

Greg Glassman didn't invent the pushup. He didn't invent the pull-up. He didn't invent the squat. He didn't invent the stopwatch. He did, however, invent "Cindy." He did create a program that intertwines numerous types of physical training: gymnastics, Olympic lifting, power lifting, calisthenics, high intensity-short duration sessions, and on and on. He did create a program that best supports and improves the ten general physical skills. He DID do the research that provides an open source, measurable, observable, recordable and repeatable model of fitness training.

To say that he didn't "invent this form" of training outwardly appears to be a misunderstanding of "this form" of training. "This form" of training specializes in not specializing and, as you most likely have heard, is constantly varied functional movements executed at moderate to high intensity. And that, sir, was in fact invented by Greg Glassman.

I challenge you to show that "this form" of training "has been around for a long time" and then take it up with the crew of attorneys working every day to protect Mr. Glassman's intellectual property known as CrossFit.

Tim, this is by no means a personal attack on you. If I seem passionate about this topic, I am. I am very happy that you are here and I hope that you have been training hard.

But, to post a message on a site that you don't pay for, celebrating the "sweet" package that has been assembled for you, and then go on to say that the owner of that site and creator of the program didn't actually invent it seems blasphemous, unappreciative, and not in line with the heart and mind of a dedicated CrossFitter, as Marion Jones clearly isn't.

Man oh man do I love that song in Flamenco style..... great workout as well!

Very strong showing, Zac. It was an awesome effort.

To Live By!

1) Lactic acid is the Spartan's friend. The Spartan knows the value of anaerobic failure, and actively seeks it out. If he falls on his face, he waits only as long as necessary to move again before he continues.
2) The Spartan takes no breaks between exercises, unless it's to shove a non-Spartan out of the way.
3) The Spartan runs. He does not use Stairmasters, or stationary bikes, or ellipticals. He runs.
4) When the Spartan cannot run, he walks. When he cannot walk, he crawls. When he cannot crawl, he has failed.
5) The Spartan hits big muscles, like the back, the pectorals, the quadriceps and the glutes. He knows this means he is building functional muscle that will assist in the destruction of his enemies and in the production of testosterone (of which the Spartan has more than the average man).
6) By contrast, the Spartan does not waste much time on small muscles. They will grow as the result of functional exercise that hits the big muscles (see above). For example, the bicep is only useful in that it assists with chin-ups, and scaling enemy fortifications. Anything else is vanity.
7) The Spartan abhors cables and machines. This is for two reasons. First, to activate stabilizer muscles, the Spartan must depend on himself to balance the weight, not a machine. Second - look up the adjective "spartan" in the dictionary: "strict and austere." You should be able to do a Spartan workout in a FOB.
8) The Spartan fears only one thing: his workout. The enemy pales in comparison to his workout. If he doesn't fear his workout, it isn't hard enough.
9) Puking is acceptable. Quitting is not. If he gives up here, he gives up in battle. This is unacceptable.
10) So nature abhors a vacuum, so the Spartan loathes missing a workout. A Spartan can complete a workout in his grandma's basement, a hotel room, or in a city park.
11) If the Spartan is not in pain during his workout, he is wrong.
12) The Spartan never cheats. He maintains proper technique throughout his training, because he knows that smooth is fast, and that he will be mocked mercilessly for, "girly pull-ups".
13) The Spartan knows the value of the basics: the push-up, the pull-up, the chin-up, the sit-up, the squat, and the dead-lift. He also knows the importance of variety, and seeks out different techniques of the above.

And Die By!

Hats off to the man who can do that work out in that time span.

Cheater and a liar. I have no sympathy.

Just got home from gym after doing run, L Pull etc

44:50

L Pull ups took me about 30 minutes on their own. Not difficult to see what I need to do to lower my time. Runs and powercleans were done quickly and virtually unbroken. Another Saturday where all the other gym members staring at me while finding it hard to breathe with heartrate around 180 bpm, while they were sitting around not moving enough to get enough sweat together to even get a reading on their heart rate monitors.

Thanks for another satisfying week Crossfit founders!

Raze,

Right on.

#10 Allison NYC

No such thing as an American swing, or a Russian swing. There are just 1 and 2 handed swings to different levels, from waist level to overhead. Go to the article section of CF.com and read the second comment after the CF article on the KB swing from 2004. Whatever version and level you do, just be sure to do them safely.

Enough of the Spartan BS. I'm sick of yahoo's obsessing over the movie '300.' Most of them never even heard of Thermopylae before that and don't know anything about Greek culture or what Sparta or Athens were like. Geez, enough already.

That looked brutal Zac. Great work Bro!!

Ok. Then wherever it says spartan change it to cross fitter. I just thought it relevant to our training style. I do agree thet most don't have any idea about those ancient civilizations. however these rules sum up crossfit pretty well.

Works for me, nothing personal.

#39 Raze....excellent post! That's definitely a "keeper". I liked it so much we should have it inscripted on a huge board and placed in all our centers.

Thanks

Drugs n sport is like government and corruption.

I'm sticking with the flax seed.

Very dissapointing, But hardly suprising.
Seeing as Performance enhancers are taken quite openly i the gaelic football scene here in Ireland Gaelic football is an amateur sport, yet people feel they need that extra edge!
Its sad but I cant see it changing.

Johnny b Ireland

Very dissapointing, But hardly suprising.
Seeing as Performance enhancers are taken quite openly i the gaelic football scene here in Ireland Gaelic football is an amateur sport, yet people feel they need that extra edge!
Its sad but I cant see it changing.

Johnny b Ireland

Daniel and Gaucoin:
The song in the video is performed by Rodrigo & Gabriella, Mexican guitarists who mostly operate out of Ireland these days. Whatever you do don't let them hear you say they're playing flamenco style, they hate that!

Well lets see here, you tell me that if I rub or pop a pill I can go from 1 million a year for 3 years to 25 million a year for seven and break records? That's tougher than the holier than though like to make it sound. Not saying I would, but I am thankful that my lack of ability never put me at risk. I was confronted years ago when i played college baseball to use roids. Luckily I passed. I new if I took roids I might have been able to progress to AAA ball. Not worth it for me. Decision might have been different if it could have meant playing in the bigs.

Raze, nice rules, did you come up with that? Impressive. As far as too much Sparta, I honestly believe that we can never have enough. The more I study that culture, the more I wish I could go back in time.

EVERY athlete at that level dopes. No exceptions. No one is going to run 100m in 10 seconds clean. The mentality is: if you don't do it, someone else will, and you'll run in 12, just like the rest of the losers.

I'm not defending anyone, just pointing out the reality of the situation. The only reason people get all hot and bothered over this is they have no idea how widespread steroid use actually is. Hell I know at least 10 meatheads down at the local big box that juice. And then try to tell me that professional athletes are clean? Gimmie a break.

So long as there's money there, people will ALWAYS use steroids. I'm not ganna use em, but then again, I'm not going to be a professional athlete. It comes with the territory.

#6 Gale-
I am sorry to hear of your illness, glad you are doing better though. Welcome back and Happy CrossFitting.

#36 Dan D.-
Great Post!

I am disappointed about Marion Jones, but hardly surprised. I really admired her for a time.
Then again, that was before CrossFit and now I have better athletes to admire.
A few examples of the athletes that I admire-
I admire everyone on here who pushes themselves to exhaustion or struggles with a certain exercise or WOD and doesn't give up and comes back again the next day and lines back up and says, "Let's go!" I admire everyone that gets their first and then subsequent Pullups and MU's. I admire everyone's Personal Bests. I admire everyone that decides this is going to be the day to start. I admire everyone that doesn't let their ego get in the way and post their results, no matter what they are. I admire everyone that doesn't let age, weight, or being female or male get in their way of doing a WOD. I admire the HQ gang and how they make it all look doable.
Like I said, just a few...

Have a good rest day all! Off to watch the Highland Games for our area.

Kate

RAZE,

That spartan clip, I saw that I croosfit vancouver I beleive a few weeks back written by a captain in th canadian army while in afghanistan, you should give credit to where it is do. It almost seems like plagerism.

#36,Dan D.,

You are totally there in your comments and response to that statement relegating Coach G.'s invention to a "sweet package." It's a heck of a lot more than that, a synergism of hard science, art, and uncompromising pursuit of elite performance. Greg Glassman is a leader is the truest sense of the word, he has my full attention and respect.
There are a lot of imitaters out there doing workouts similar to Crossfit in that they use some of the same basic exercises, but they really don't have a clue about antagonistic sequencing, volume, intensity, or programming. I'm sorry to say this is even true of some affiliates with whom I wouldn't waste my time.

#26 - Your day to day must be pretty sad. I'd hate to spend my whole life wondering if the guy in line in front of me is going to turn around and kill me, because that fits into how you view people. The lie and cheat, so why not kill, so we all must be a big group of killers. You remind me of the scene from 2001 when the ape realizes he can use the bones to kill for dominance. I happen to believe hundreds of thousands of years has led to humans being much more reasonable. Not all - sure there are ideologies I disagree with too, but if you were to put all the good people on a scale opposite the "bad" people you refer to - the good side would by far be the heavier.

Must suck to be scared. Yes, scared that is what you are. I'm not sure what happened to you to make you think that way about people, but it is your own personal opinion and has very little basis in fact. This community in and of itself is filled with quite a few "good" people. I really do feel sorry for you.

gale (#6) -- welcome back and best of health to you!

as to the doping stuff -- i am an avid cycling fan. (so much so i am in a fantasy cycling league. strange, i know.) the past 3 years in cycling have been so hard. i have had to watch people who were my heroes fall to the temptations of doping. this year's tour de france showed how far my suspicions went, in that every rider that didn't suffer or anyone who gained a lead over 10" or anyone who had a phenomenal day, i suspected would fail their daily doping test. and this year, that is pretty much how it went.

there are several teams in cycling that are taking on themselves to clean up the sport. they are imposing their own doping regulations and testing -- far more stringent than that of the race organizations. one of those teams is a new US team, Slipstream (ironically "powered by chipolte", but i digress.)

the up and coming young riders are tired of the drugs and the black mark on their sport. cycling is actually looking to THEM -- 20 year olds -- to LEAD instead of the vets. the cyclists in the tour de france had a protest (where a group of riders refuses to start the race for a short time) AGAINST doping, where in the past the riders protested against their "loss of liberty/privacy" with doping constraints. no one trusts them anymore.

which leads me to ms. jones. i am with AMlove. a non-reaction. to me, she is a part of that "old guard" -- phenomenal feats that in today's light look awfully suspicious. i have already had my heartaches through cycling and no longer find myself hurt by these "revalations." take her medals and be done with it.

and ms. jones, please don't apologize to me. you have to live with yourself and your choices. thank you for your honesty and be prepared to pay for your sins. today is a new day, so be the person that makes you feel good inside. whatever that means.

and i am also with kate -- my heroes are not the shiny pro athletes anymore. they are the everyday people who sweat and puke and cry. they are the one's who work out on their own everyday. the one's who fight illness tooth and nail. and the mom's coming back after a forced hiatus and a new gift! (welcome, aaucoin!)

thanks for listening to my rambling! have a great rest day everyone! i am off to cover a swim meet!

ck

For those that are saying that they don't care about Marion Jones's admission, I'd say you never had the chance to see her run in person. When I was a sprinter in college, I got to see her run the anchor leg in a 4 X 100m relay at Penn Relays. She got the baton about 3-4 yards behind the leader; she then proceeded to eat up that lead, pass the girl, and win the race. For those who know how much 3 yards is on the world-class sprinting scene, you know how amazing this was to witness. It was a thing of beauty. To think that performance was a result of a chemical that her opponent wasn't using (or maybe just a better chemical) honestly makes my world just a little bit more gray.

I'm also sick to death of this "Spartan" stuff. If people are mature and responsible enough to take on a training system like Crossfit, they should be able to do a little historical research too. There were certainly some tough Spartan warriors, but their whole system was built on the back of slavery and exploitation. As a former Marine, that's not what I served my country to protect, and that's not what I think about when I get up in the morning. The idea of Sparta that you are promoting has no more connection to reality than Imperial Stormtroopers or Knights of the Round Table. How about "American" instead?

Not sure what I did to have my post get caught by the "Spam-Filters" but hopefully it will post soon.

I'm not a big rest day guy, but I'm feeling this one.

Awesome workout Zach! I gotta ask, who is that flamenco "Stairway to Heaven" performed by?
#45 So just because relatively few people had detailed knowledge of the Battle of Thermopylae, Sparta, or ancient Greece in general before the movie "300", we should be banned from the party? I knew nothing about Crossfit until I found Crossfit. Should I squash my interest in that because I haven't been around since its inception? Perhaps the makers of "300" should be commended for raising interest in Sparta, ancient Greece, Crossfit-style training, and for making a pretty kick-a** movie. My $0.02.

cool movie and workout. and two lights, too. you folks are getting pretty sophisticated with movies. check out Ross Lowell's Matter of Light & Depth for an exceptional and functional book on lighting.

Dan,
Actually this stuff has already found it's way into MMA. Royce Gracie was busted for steroids after his most recent fight. BOTH Hermes Franca and Sean Sherk, both UFC lightweights, also tested positive after an incredible 5 round title fight. Talk about conditioning. Sherk won the fight and his explosiveness in the fifth round was just sick. To hear they BOTH tested positive was very disturbing. Now the belt is vacant.
Somebody posted earlier that they really don't care about rampant abuse of performance enhancing drugs. I do care, and it does bother me. I love athletic competition, and I want to believe that the athletes I'm rooting for got there by training hard and playing fairly. Not cheating. It is good to have heroes.
Ms. Jones I accept your apology.

Flamenco Led Zeppelin Rules!

#36, Dan D. You've got it right & I surmise you've also heard Coach Glassman speak about CrossFit integrity at a cert.

I hear his words in my head every day, and occasionally re-read the notes I jotted as he spoke. They're true, accurate, and words to live by.

CrossFitters are EARNERS. We don't steal. We don't cheat. The 3 karat diamond ring story summarizes who we are, and what our community is: We get what we get by working. None of us would take someone else's ring.

That's how we have ladies with deadly asthma who survive and come back to fight another day. #6 Gayle, God Bless You, and thanks for being a fighter.

I am SO certain that Coach Greg Glassman is absolutely correct about the heart and soul of a CrossFitter. He said, CrossFit selects for character and those who don't have it will quit quickly. I believe him, and I continually put my money where my mouth is.

I was at Petranek Fitness in LA last month. (saw Becca! wow to her! but that's another story). anyhow, i had one of my awesome handbags with me: a $1,200 louis vuitton with me. and, since i was on vacation, i had a couple of benjamin$ in the kate $pade wallet inside. I probably put a Cartier watch and some diamonds in it too. Forget where I put my trinkets that day... In all, an expensive setup in a very portable little "steal me" bag. Petranek has no lockers. I didn't expect them to. I looked at the storage cubes for our gear, heard Coach Glassman's words about how CrossFitters don't steal, trusted in him, and plopped my gear down in a room that's totally out of view of the workout. And, I KNEW that everything would be there when I got back. And, so it was.

We don't cheat. We don't take steroids. We don't get liposuction. We don't swallow tapeworms, chomp trim-spa or take laxitives to lose weight. We don't stick needles full of junk into out butts to grow our muscles.

We're earners. I'm so proud to be affiliated with CrossFit. You can't "tabata" integrity. We're steady paced distance athletes when it comes to integrity. It's always on.

And, Marion Jones, beautiful strong thing that she is, isn't an earner. Frankly, I'm watching my handbag whenever she's around.

Semper CrossFit,
S.C.

Insane workout demo!! missed yesterdays workout due to illness better today but no access to gym. Went to park and did--->

-500m run
-35 Pushups
-500m Run
-30 Pushups
-500m Run
-20 Pushups
-500m Run
15 Pushups
-400m Cool down back home

took about 20 mins good met-con!

I am fairly sure the song is by Rodrigo y Gabriela, for those curious.

The last three videos were Sick!!! I am so stoked that I get to train with such insane athletes like Annie, Robbie, and Zac everyday. B

"constantly varied functional movements executed at moderate to high intensity. And that, sir, was in fact invented by Greg Glassman."

So no one in the history of sports training ever said "hey, let's do a bunch of different movements executed at moderate to high intensity." Pick up a sports training book for collegiate athletes. Better yet, go watch a collegiate football/rugby/lacrosse team work out early in the training year. They'll be doing something a lot like what you just defined crossfit as.

Let's call a spade a spade. Crossfit is fantastic. But it's not new in substance. The marketing is new, but the training is not. Why is that an insult anyway? It's not. What works, works and Crossfit works really well.

#57 Angry G-

Your response to my statement above is neither new nor inciting. I have gotten this response from a wide range of people with a wider range of ideologies, so I won't do you the disservice of saying "you dont understand me you (insert narrowminded drivel here)".

What I will say to your response is this. You're right. I AM scared. I am scared to raise my two kids in a world where home invasions take place. I'm scared about a country that doesnt see the big picture for what it is. I am scared about the idea that "everything is fine; good people abound! leave the doors unlocked and your money on the counter, its cool!"

You did overstep your bounds a couple of times, however, so I'll address it. My day is not sad. Your assumption is wrong. "Depressed" and "wary of a world you dont fully trust" are different. At least to me. I never said that people are a big group of killers- as a matter of fact, I know that sociopathology tells us that there are very few people that actually have the capacity to kill. Call them the wolf, the true sociopath. And this is not my idea, I want to put that out there- this specific theory is well known in this community and can be found in Lt Col(ret) Dave Grossmans book, "On Killing", where he discusses personality types and their propensity for communal interatction.
You may have a point, that the good outnumber the bad. However, in my opinion, "good" is not inaction. Simply living your life lassiez faire doesnt mean youre good. It means youre part of the pack. Just because youre a sheep doesnt mean you help the flock.
The last point made me a little mad at you, i must admit. It does suck to be scared. I'll assume that you arent a parent for a second; I could be totally wrong. I am scared for my two young kids every single day. However, they are the reason I am sure that we, as humans, have a chance. We arent born "evil". Look at kids, they dont know how to lie, cheat, steal. They're taught. If we can teach them right from the start then they'll get it. I'm sure of that.
I'll finish this with my point- there ARE a lot of good people in the world. And here, in this community, there probably more per capita than a lot of other places. But here is why- because this type of fitness, THIS system and ideology, attracts Sheepdogs. People who dont think its enough to simply eat grass all day and "hope everything is all right and know that the flock will be fine." The sheep mistake the sheepdog for the wolf, because the sheepdog barks, growls, and has teeth. And the sheep dont like the sheepdog.

Until the wolf shows up. And that is why I train Crossfit, why I have a job that takes me away from my family 8 months a year, and why I am "scared". I prefer to think I am "ready".

Good day, all!

is that a buddy lee jump rope i see zac using?

38/m/205
yesterday's wod
had J and K show up as well, so didn't have enough barbells, but used our 32kg kb, and two 16kg kb's.

my time with the first set of power cleans using the 32kg kb, and no more than 6 continuous L pull-ups throughout:

27:52

43/m/164

intervals
run 1000m x 4 (4:40 target)
rest interval 400m jog

steadily losing weight despite 3000 calories, french fries, cookies. Can't wait until my race is over and then just crossfitting.

I always liked Marion Jones, a latter-day Wilma Rudoloph, another star in the firmament.

So I am saddened, but as others have said, not surprised. Her first husband was a doper, the father of her first child was a doper, her coach was a dope peddler. She seems to have an affinity for the wrong companions. She's not the first.

Barry Bonds is pond scum.

# 59 america was also built on slavery and exploitation. maybe you also need a history lesson. but i agree we should use crossfitter instead of spartan because we are a family linked by our love for fitness.

Right on Chris, I've been into Greek culture since I was a kid and I thought the Spartan were cool back then.

If you want more Spartan stuff (as you percieve it)in our culture, you've obviously never been to a war zone and if you were then you probably sat at a desk. And if you think the 300 is actually reflective of what Sparta was you're mistaken. The Battle of Thermopylae was actually planned by an Athenian General and the Athenian Navy kept the Persians from simply sailing around Thermopylae. It was all to build time for the rest of Greece to mobilize. The ability to hold them off was more due to the Greek technology of Bronze shields and Armor vs Persian wicker shields and the use of the Phalanx.

And the Spartans were just as much 'Boy lovers' as the rest of the culture. I also hate how the neocons try to inject some sort of modern lib/con dispute into the whole thing. I'd hate to say it, but old George W. is more like Xerxes than Leonidas as well as the neocon imperial agenda.

First post-

I've been xfitting for maybe 6 mo. thought I might add some of my .02 on Jones, Bonds, etc.

Personally, I don't feel disappointed or jaded about these new revelations. These "athletes" are not amateurs, they are professionals, paid to be entertainment spectacles. The appeal of professional sports is completely different from the appeal of a company softball league or after-work soccer team. These people are paid to entertain us. As such, I don't know how anyone expects them not to try and juice their bodies out of their minds. It's just part of the competitive nature of the free market that these athletes must seek every advantage - moral, healthy, or otherwise - if they want to win (get paid). I see it as completely analogous to corporate scandals. Don't blame Marion or Barry for satisfying the demands of the market - blame the regulators for letting the market drive itself out of control.

Maybe better for the message board but...
What is benefit of using Dynamax ball at bottom of squats/wall-ball-throws (per this video and others on CF site)? As a newb, and one healing from knee tendonitis, I'm curious about benefit(s). Thanks.

I was in a 5k trail race today. I got top overall female so that was pretty cool. :o)

The race was for the "Young Marines" of Raleigh. It is not about training them for the marines, it is about learning respect, discipline, getting exercise etc. Think boyscouts/girlscouts on a little different level.

I am now also their new PT Officer :) So, starting soon they will discover Crossfit/ BrandX.
Erin

Gale, welcome back, congrats.

Kate, nice post, thanks.

I notice how strange it feels that I admired and desired success for Marion, knowing nothing about her. Why is it so easy for us to engage emotionally with strangers, identify with them, want them to do well ... as if they were important in our lives.

Aside from the obvious - her ambition to win made her willing to cheat, certainly nothing new amongst the human race, or athletes - when I read through there with the comments about all the ex-husbands/boyfriends, children fathered hither, thither and yon, I can't help but wonder about the extra pain she's given herself from miserable life management. We all have our 'shirt' pile of pain to deal with, but reading a story like this, I feel very humble, very grateful to have a simple life with a loving and beloved spouse, three healthy and thriving children, and honest work to do, work I believe in. I cherish it. I know I can do more, get more from this life, and I work on that every day, partially via Crossfit.

The grand news about life - Marion can still make a good one for herself too, if she sets her sights on doing that.

Paul

Has anyone here ever experienced a racing heart while doing CF?

Today, for the second time since I started CF about 2 months ago, my heart rate got up to about 250 bpm (63 beats in 15 seconds)!

Today's workout was from 070914 (scaled: Brand X "pack") -- 3 rounds of 30 double unders and 50 squats. I did the first 2 rounds in about 6:52, and 1/2 way through my last round of double unders, my heart started racing. It returned to normal sudddenly, after about a minute of rest.

This has happened before during high-intensity exercise (a few times/year over the last 13 years or so), most recently during a 40 min Tabata/rowing circuit (see CFJ 57_07).

I've gone through all sorts of heart exams and tests (stress tests, echocardiograms, ekg's, etc.), and have never seen anything odd in my results.

Has anyone here ever experienced or heard about this sort of thing happening?
Have any researchers looking at CF heard of anything like what I'm experiencing?

(FYI, I'm 33yo, male, 6'2/221#, CFT 755; about 8 weeks in CF at low-moderate intensity -- mostly scaled workouts)

#50 - Geoff, yes, well said.

#34 - Spear, I'm with you on the 'living the lies' thing, but then I'm sure I'm living some. Part of getting better looking for ways I'm not living an integrated life, and eliminating the unintegrated parts. I'm not sure it's the same burden for all; I think some must get comfortable with that way of living in lies, big and small.

#16 - well said; once given that power, there's a virtual certainty the govt will abuse it as it has in our nation. Drug use is detrimental to humans - govt programs purported to prevent drug use by humans are far more detrimental to humans. That is, in my humble as ever opinion ...

#16 -

#55 jason,

I didn't know this. Where i found it it was posted without any author. Sorry bout that, but thanks for clearing that up. I'm not saying that i wrote it or anything.

And lastly - I used to love professional sports, and the Olympics and such. I used to enjoy admiring the athletic accomplishments, and find them inspiring. Now, I grieve a bit that their work and performance seems not admirable. I just stay clear of the whole thing. The good news is, I can live my life without sending a penny to support the perversion of ideals that these sports now represent.

I wish for my kids that they could enjoy the Olympics as I did as a kid - perhaps they can, and just don't need to know about the ugly side of it until they are old enough to process it.

Looking forward to reading the last half of the posts above -

Where there is money to made, fortune to be won, grandure to be wrested out of the hands of effort then cheeting will happen. Period.

Shoes that jump higher, bats that hit farther, hulls that weigh less, engines with bigger bore, spitballs, etc

Because her cheeting takes place internally rather than in her equipment we have national uproar? We have federal agents checking formula one airfoils, i dont think so.

The fact is that the sanctity of human effort and struggle is simply not entertaining enough for the sheeple in the audience. What if there was never another world record broken? never another home run king conquered? Never a heavier snatch? What happens to advertising dollars and stadium attendence when we never have a new 'best' or another record broken?

How much of performance enhancing drug use/doping is driven by the needs of the sports fans to see an unending progression of records smashed and times beaten?

Cheating sucks and its wrong, but the holier than thou whining of the masses and the lunacy of the media frenzy makes me want to puke as much as FGB on a full stomach.

chef

.

Personally, I like how David Ortiz of the BELOVED Boston Red Sox publically responded to questions about performance-enhancers:

"Man, they can test me all they want. All they're gonna find is rice and beans."

Chef,

Jones's cheating may be "internal," but the effects are not confined to herself alone.

The problem with ignoring steroid use is that such an approach puts pressure on other athletes to take the drugs to compete successfully. I don't think those who use illegal and dangerous substances should be allowed to control the competitive environment. If left uncontrolled, performance-enhancing drugs will permeate all sports at almost all levels.

Symbols are powerful in the human imagination, and high-profile prosecutions may have disproportionate effects.

I like that Marion Jones has taken responsibility and hope that it will serve as an example for those who have, so far, refused to do so. I was a fan, but I can be a fan of the legacy she could leave by answering the nagging call of truth. This world needs more of the truth and not McGuire's comment, "I'm not here to talk about that" or whatever he said.

Hoping to get in some squats today. I spent a thoroughly enjoyable morning with Tony B and got to meet Jamie as well. Real people these CF celebs, simply a joy to be around. Thanks to you both for the invitation.

Spider Chick #64: "We don't swallow tapeworms." I just don't think I have anything that could POSSIBLY add to that!

reply to post #67 tim

Sorry Tim you are wrong, this form of training has not ever made its way into any organized sports before Crossfit came along...especially preseason training for football, lacrosse or rugby. If you've seen this type of training before, it is Crossfit, other than that it is basic gym training and maybe some calisthenics thrown in here and there which doesn't come close to what Crossfit is.

Awesome video. Can't wait to do that WOD! Completed yesterday's WOD (with some assistance). I'm pretty new to Cross Fit, but so far lovin' it.

I think we should take Marion Jones' apology at face value, accept it, and at least give her the nod for 'fessing up, even though it took years for her to do it. The bashing is not necessary.

Unless you've been a pro athlete you can't know the pressures involved. It's very easy to throw slings and arrows from a comfortable distance.

#64 Spider Chick, that comment about watching your handbag....wow, totally ridiculous cheap shot.

#64, Spider Chick, writes:

"We don't cheat. We don't take steroids. We don't get liposuction. We don't swallow tapeworms, chomp trim-spa or take laxitives to lose weight. We don't stick needles full of junk into out butts to grow our muscles."

She is, of course, absolutely correct. CrossFit requires honesty, begining with self honesty. You simply can't keep score, unless you are willing to tell yourself the truth, which includes not lying about your count, form, etc. The sport simply doesn't work without honesty.

Most people can't be ruthlessly honest with themselves, but those who can are absolutely incapable of being dishonest with anyone else.

Tom,

Sadly, performance enhancement does exist in all sports on all levels.

Take a minute to peruse Google for rosters of college and proball linemen that weighed more than 250lbs in the '40s and '50s and how many dwarf that size today. Have we evolved into substantially larger creatures in the last 50 years? Are we really that much faster? Stronger? The world of competitive strength is near and dear to my heart, yet smeared from top to tail by testosterone, GH, insulin and even EPO abuse.

All sports, even Golf, bizarr as i find that notion, are run by drug use. i will try and dig up the article about how much amphetamine each postion in the nfl uses on average: some dexedrine for QBs to heighten awareness all the way up the road to meth/adrenachrome for defensive lines to deaden pain and instil pathological rage, cheating for certain, but why is THIS form of cheating followed by millions of our tax dollars when 'external' forms are some how absent from the rain of dollars and media feeding frenzy?

When was the last time a ball player got indicted in frot of a federal judge for corking a bat?

Simply put? Flush her medals down the toilette, fine, I will pull the chain. I for one dont expect any of the cheating to go away for the frivolous use of my taxes, it will just take on a different name.

If you are going to break the rules, have the balls to not cry and wank about it in public. It's the same response every time from athletes, celebrities and politicians. Do the wrong thing, then cry and apologize when they get caught. Maynard James Keenan sang it best: "It's only wrong if you get caught..."

"If you can't live with the consequence of your decisions then make different decisions." -Uncle Rico (2007).

Im a day behind:

-Run 400 meters (12mph pace)
-75 pound Powerclean, 50 reps (thought these would be easy.... they weren't!)
-40 L Pull-ups (couldn't do but 2 with feet out so I tucked my knees in for the rest I also had to take breaks every 10-12 reps)
-Run 400 meters (11mph pace)
-75 pound Powerclean, 40 reps (wore a whole in my hand by rep 30 made these very painful)
-30 L Pull-ups (grip in shot couldn't hold on longer than 5 reps stopped at 20 reps)
-Run 400 meters (10mph pace)
-75 pound Powerclean, 30 reps (used towel as glove for hand)
-20 L Pull-ups (grip totally shot sets of 2-4)
-Run 400 meters (10mph pace)

49:54

Things to improve on: Wind and grip strength.

#77 Eric -

I too have noticed unbelievably high heart rate readings at times during workouts. It is more than likely the heart rate monitor itself and the readings it is picking up. I use a Polar HRM and occasionally I get extremely high numbers but I have noticed that they are numbers as a result of the monitor itself and not the heart. Check it out.

#90

Where does our responibility to not judge weigh in here? I wouldn't want to be Marion Jones right now, and imagine your whole life being based on the Sydney Olympics or some other mythical event instead of simply getting up and going to work every day. Her shame is broadcast in the public, and we're afforded the opporutnity to wallow in self pity in privte. She cheated, she admitted it, and that's worthy of some respect when tons of athletes continue to lie about it.

#77 Starkweather

re: racing heart rate

How do you know your heart rate got up to 250bpm? Did you hold 2 fingers at the carotid artery?

I have not experienced that doing CF, but when I used to be a cardio nut, doing century bike rides, triathlon training etc...I used to get that racing sensation rather often. Ever since I quit doing that sort of thing, I have not experienced it. My gut tells me it's probably harmless, since you've already checked things out and all is reading normal.

amlove21 - While I agree somewhat with what you are trying to convey - remember this. One should always respect nature, but one need not fear it.

Healthy respect is one thing, living in fear is a bear trap that will bleed you to death. I agree with you about personality types. I fit the A and C personality types to the letter.

One does not need to have children to have a healthy love for another human being. (You are right, I don't have children right now, but I hope to have children someday, you can bet they will learn 2 things - CrossFit and how to fight.) Your argument if based on me having kids or not is akin to "one must have served in the military to comment on anything about the military." BS argument, you and I both know it.

Perhaps I was too harsh, I think we are on the same wavelength. I apologize if my words were overly personal. I see we now agree - people are taught to be evil, not inherently evil. The galaxy is at peace.

Eric #77
I am an MD but not a Cardiologist.
A heart rate of 250 beats per min is abnormal, even during strenuous exercise.
If you are using a moniter, check that you are using it correctly, and without interference.
If you are sure your heart rate is 250, see a Dr as this is not normal.

I have been doing crossfit for only a couple months. After reading through the posts today I felt I needed to say thank you to Coach Glassman for this program and this site. I have worked out virtually my whole life, mostly working on bodybuilding. This program is the best exercise program I have ever done, by far. THANK YOU!

Why would anyone care if Marion Jones took steroids or not? It's naive to dismiss the possibility that a large number of professional athletes are not augmenting their training with performance enhancing drugs. The public likes to see superhuman performance and the public isn't hurt or damaged by what an athlete puts into their body.

People need to get off their soapbox!!!

Ok. first off i didn't write this nor am i a fan when it comes to spartan history. My point was that these rules summed up our training. That is all. I am in no way implicating(sp?) that crossfit is like the spartan culture. It was just that reading this made me want to go do a "fran" at 2am. and i thought i would share that enthusiasm with everyone else i could. Sorry everyone. I'll just stick to posting my times.

And on that note, i feel a "Fran" comming on for the WOD soon. I've got to get under a 2:45 this time. I get sick just thinking about it in the future.

34yom/160#

Rest Day WOD: Crossfit Lawnmow

2 yards (neighbors out of town)
60'x110'
60'x140'
Mower: craftsman 5.3hp, self-propelled (turned off for entirety of workout...self propulsion that is, not the mower. Spartans never used self propelled mowers, I know my history.)
Mow for time - running preferred

(56:00)

No gym, no excuse. 3..2..1...MOW! :P

# 82 Clippa, where did you find that quote from Papi? love it.

Hey Barry, I read your post #94 from last rest day. Elegant and poingnant, one of your best. Thanks.

Catfish #101... I heard him say it a while back during an interview. I think it may have been in 2004 in their World Series run, but I could be wrong.

I wanna know what that song is called and where can i get songs like that?

nm ignore previous post... found it

!

Hey Raze,
Not sure why everyone is piling on you, but I enjoyed the post. Thanks. I'm also a new fan of Spartan culture, yes, spawned by the movie "300". Not sure why that's bad either. Guess if you're late to the party you're not allowed in. By that rationale, I suppose I shoud quit Crossfitting, since I only started that a year ago. Whatever

Did CrossFit Rockwall's WOD today at the park:

5 rounds:
10 Ring Push-ups (variations 1-5 from the recent video, switching to a new variation each round)
Turkish Get-up Sit-ups with 30lb dumbbell, 10 each side

Everyone completed all exercises as a team in 20:37.
Good job everyone!

Good video. I love the places people workout and the fact that they're in great shape. It shows how easy fitness can be, even elite fitness.

Marion Jones has done SUCH a disservice to all sports not to mention our amature sports. Shame on her. I hope she does her jail time and fade away.

Crossfit is training for power endurance with some pure strength training/interval sprints thrown in there every once in a while.

This is by no means unique. For instance, in Vern Gambetta's book 'Athletic Development' he has workouts that look very much like crossfit workouts. See especially the chapters 'Full-spectrum strength' and 'integrated power training.' There are crossfit -style workouts listed on pp. 200-208. Keep in mind, there is a large bibliography and this is a very basic introduction.

At the university I go to, the early season strength program is a lot like crossfit, and none of the coaches have ever heard of it (I asked.)

#88 Tim Hamilton

You write “I think we should take Marion Jones' apology at face value”.

You don’t actually believe that she is coming forward now out of some long pent up guilt trip and that we should feel sorry for her. The only reason she is coming forward now and admitting what she had done is because it is part of the plea deal. She would not be admitting anything if she remotely thought she could win the case against her. She would today be continuing the lie that she in fact thought she was taking flax seed oil just like the other Balco fiasco liar Barry Bonds. All Athletes but especially Olympic athletes need to compete on level playing fields or they completely loose credibility. I say strip her of all her medals, rewrite the record books to remove her from print and make an example of not only her but anyone else that is found to be cheating in one form or another. These folks need to understand that cutting corners by cheating to achieve success is in no way honorable. I believe unless a hard line is taken with respect to punishment for these acts they will continue to occur and some will actually get away with it which is sad.

Didn’t intend to be snippy but this newest media circus is really getting on my nerves.

Mike

"Ms. Jones’s explanation of believing the substance was flaxseed oil, a nutritional supplement, echoes the explanation by Mr. Bonds, who said he never knowingly took steroids but ingested a chemical he believed was flaxseed oil and rubbed on a chemical he believed was a balm."

Yeah, balm, that's it.

# 82 Wade, the second dynamax is just used as a depth gage for the squat, making sure you get deep enough.

#96, Tim Hamilton, writes:

"Unless you've been a pro athlete you can't know the pressures involved."

Do you believe that the pressures on pro athletes to cheat are any different than the pressures on business executives to fix prices, on finacial analysists to inside trade, on students to cheat on exams, on tax payers to cheat on their taxes, or on spouces to cheat on each other?

#102, Thereasa, writes:

"Where does our responibility to not judge weigh in here?"

I was unaware that those of us who judge ourselves are somehow responsible not to judge others. Is it your opinion that a judgement-free society can function effectively?

When I read something that has been quoted without attribution, do I have a responsibility not to judge the "writer?" When an athlete places first as a result of cheating, do I have a responsibiliy not to judge that athlete harshly for leading me to believe that her performance was superior to the second-place athlete who did not cheat?

#6 gale: That's wonderful...and welcome back!

#23 Hari: Hear, hear!

#64 Spider Chick: "You can't 'tabata' integrity." That is PRICELESS!

RAZE: I understand perfectly the spirit you posted that in. Don't stop contributing of yourself b/c others are sensitive or nit-pickers. Good luck on your "fran".

#94 Jake,

Thanks for the support.

#73 Tim,

Once again I must question your understanding of the principles here. It is evident based on two of your statements that you have just happened upon this free training program and have not spent any time learning the foundation of it, the science behind it and the reasons you are doing what you are doing (if you are doing it).

The first statement, "They'll be doing something a lot like what you just defined crossfit as" is about perfect evidence of the fact that you have not heard Coach Glassman speak and have not done any independent research about CrossFit. Had you done either of those, you'd realize that your statement indicating that it was I who "described crossfit" with the terminology I used couldn't be farther from the truth. I only wish I could take credit for it. Actually, I was quoting words that came directly from the mouth of the founder himself, Coach Glassman, and those words have appeared multiple times in the CFJ, on the CrossFit main site, on nearly every affiliate site and in every seminar that has taken place.

Your second statement, "The marketing is new, but the training is not" is also a demonstration of your misunderstanding of CrossFit. I'm curious what "marketing" you're referring to. There are no paid ads in any paper for CrossFit. There are no billboards for CrossFit. There are no commercials for CrossFit. It doesn't cost anything. Maybe you could call the T-shirts marketing, but I would say that anyone who sports CrossFit gear (Shirts, stickers, tattoos or otherwise) is doing it out of love for the game as opposed to CrossFit induced marketing for sales or revenue increases.

Additionally, there is far more to CrossFit than simply doing "a bunch of different movements executed at moderate to high intensity." And, I would love to see a college, pro, rec or little league team's training camp that mirrors what CrossFit does, with one caveat - That their "play book" for physical training was written before Coach Glassman starting spreading the word on his findings more than a decade ago.

I sense that I won't convince you that you are a little off base with your belief that CrossFit is something that someone else came up with a long time ago and that Glassman has just repackaged it.

Also, completely off topic...

Wouldn't it be great if Tony B (or others) did a video series of personal garage gyms? It would be awesome to see how those going it solo are drinking the Kool-aide.

bladeboy(101), Tim(103), & steve(105):

Thanks for your omments!
Here's a little more detail:

I got the 250 figure from a 15-second pulse check (63 beats in 15 sec) with fingers on my carotid artery. Each beat was distinct and the pattern was regular. When I tried to check at my wrist, I couldn't discern the pulse as easily as I normally do at that site. About a minute after I first noticed, I was checking my pulse again when the rhythm suddenly returned to normal.

I've talked to cardiologists about this, they call it tacchycardia and tell me that it's nothing to worry about. I have a hunch that not many cardiologists deal with patients that undergo CF-like intensity in their workouts. I'm just trying to see if I can find someone that has actually seen this sort of thing in a clinical setting.

My Dr. has said that if I want to try and re-create the tacchycardia, they can give me a monitor to wear while I work out. I've never been able to get this recorded before, but maybe I'll try again now that I know which workouts can trigger it....

#107, Phil Mancini wrote:

". . . the public isn't hurt or damaged by what an athlete puts into their body."

As I said earlier, I disagree. Any man or woman who competes in athletics and any parent who has a child who competes is potentially harmed. The honest athletes are put at a significant disadavantage. Those who behave illegally set the standard. That's unfair. I know life is not fair, but athletic competetitions are set up with specific rules for all to follow to allow an honest contest.

Chef said something to the effect, This crap goes on at all levels. There is nothing you can do.

Again, I disagree. There are always criminals, or cheaters, and there always cops, or regulators, or referees. The cops and their like cannot concede. That way lies anarchy.

Warm Up – GA’s warm up + Sampson Stretch w/ 3x10 of push ups, dips, L lifts (slow up & down to work towards L sits), declined sit-ups, & back exts and 3x20 of double-unders. No jumping pull-ups since they’re in the WOD
WOD (Friday was my rest day so doing the Friday WOD today) – For time:
•Run 400 meters
•75 pound Powerclean, 50 reps
•40 Jumping Pull-ups
•Run 400 meters
•75 pound Powerclean, 40 reps
•30 Jumping Pull-ups
•Run 400 meters
•75 pound Powerclean, 30 reps
•20 Jumping Pull-ups
•Run 400 meters
Fatboy can’t do L Pull-ups so sub’d jumping pull-ups.
Time – 28:58

I never thought 75 lbs could feel heavy on a power clean. I can't imagine how bad this would suck if I could do L pullups.

I guess I just don't care enough about professional sports to give a shit about what athletes do to their bodies, nor care if they do take such things since it is their body to abuse.

Squat WOD, details there. It's amazing how hard it is, and how much less weight I am comfortable with, when I go really CFT level deep on squats. All previous squat numbers are wiped out and I'm starting fresh.

Hey Gale, welcome back. We saved your seat for you. It's great to "hear" you again.

#121....Hari

To answer your question, do I think the pressures that an elite level pro athlete faces are any different than normal folks face? The answer is yes, I think they are much greater in magnitude.
That is really beside the point though, because I was not attempting to excuse their behavior.

I didn't have a gym today so I found a pipe in the parking garage of my building and made my own Fran.

For time:
21 air squats
11 HS push ups
21 strict pull ups on a fat water pipe(very secure)
15 air squats
8 HS push ups
15 strict pull ups on a fat water pipe
9 air squats
5 HS push ups
9 strict pull ups on a fat water pipe

5:39

It was fun and I was hoping someone would walk by and give me a funny look so they would see how extreme crossfit is but no luck.

Have a great weekend everyone!

Did yesterday's WOD with a friend to catch up.
As Rx'd: 29:20
Neil- 44:40 with 65lbs. and reg. pull ups

#121 Hari and #128 Tim:

I think a lot of professional athletes place more pressure on themselves because their body is all they have. You can get so lost in your sport that you don't know who you are without it. A good number of athletes go into depression after they retire because of an identity crisis. A professional athlete's time is so short, unlike a financial analyst who can do his job and make decent money for almost all of his life. Since I was in the Division 1 circuit for 3 years, I don't excuse it in any way, shape, or form, but it gives you a different perspective. Personally, I am offended that she would blantantly lie.

A lot of these athletes believe that they have a couple years to make as much money as possible, and then live the rest of their lives off of it. The real problem is that they don't have the morality to say no when it is presented to them (not unlike cheating on your wife). The day my coach said to me, "All you need is the needle," was the day that I quit my sport an never looked back.

I'm so glad I found Crossfit.

#118, MHLANE

I agree basically with your entire post, except that you really can't know if her apology is genuine or not. That's an opinion. I don't know if it's genuine or not, but I see no point in not treating it as such and moving on. I didn't say we should feel sorry for her.
I just think a lot of folks are quick to judge, quick to condemn, and quick to make personal attacks. Let's study the problem objectively and try to discover why it is occurring, and then how we can fix it. Because fix it we must.

#121

I'm basing my comment about not judging on my spiritual beliefs. We do indeed have a responsibility in this area--those of us who believe, that is. I think all the finger pointing we do in this society is destructive and a waste of time. There are far bigger things to worry about.

#130

I agree with looking into why these things happen. If it's a fundamental problem within our society, then it should be addressed.

43/6'1"/190

just finished yesterday's wod. holy shnikies that was rough! i don't know about you guys but there comes a time for me in some of these workouts where i have to accept that i'm not going to have a competitive time with some of the stars on this blog and i just have to just focus on finishing. today was such a day.

somewhere in the first round of pull ups when i was reduced to doing singles (gaucoin you were right, grip strength shot after the power cleans)i thought about scaling this whole thing back and then i thought, "hell no!," what would freddy c, angry g, gaucoin, jdisch, sailorcrew and sparten raze do in this situation? keep going of course! then i thought about spider chick bleeding all over the pull up bar yesterday (bad ass). and i thought about cct joey talking about staying in the gym a little longer if you have to but just finish.

so without sounding all mushy, i'll just say all you guys on this site are an inspiration and with that, my less than stellar time was:

32:56 AS RX'D

oh and amlove21, don't be too cynical or fearful about the people out there in the world. for the last 15 years i have prosecuted or defended some of the worst this world has to offer and can say i've really only run into maybe 5 sociopaths. 3 i put in prison for a very long time, 1 i defended and he went to prison for a very long time too. and 1 i dated and god help the next guy she's ever with. have a great weekend everybody.

#124 Eric Starkweather-
My $.02- Something else to carefully consider, is the potasium and sodium levels in your blood.

We witnessed something very cool today. We saw the World Record for Sheet (spelling?) throwing.
Throwing a 20 lb bag vertically with a pitchfork over a bar set at a certain height. Today the record was set at 35 feet 4 inches!

Kate

35/m/190

Deads: 135*5, 225*3, 275*2, 315*1, 365*1
Power clean: 135*3, 185*2, 195*0 (Tweaked left shoulder on attempt)

1st time doing Heavy Fran today & boy did my time suck.
Thrusters: 135lbs, Pull-ups: 45lbs
19:00

#126

I am at a loss for the attention it gets, but sheeple will stare at car crashes, I am certainly one of those on occasion. I am hyper aware that perf. enhancing goes on in all sports at all levels, but I in no way think it´s ok nor do i suggest that there is nothing that can or should be done about it. Keep testing vigilant, kick out the cheaters ever time. Always.

My contention is that because doping and AAS are the flavor of the moment in the mass media that they are getting the heavy end of the sledge when that is horse hockey both in essence and in practice.

Coaches that gamble? Fired. Athletes that compromise the ethics of the game that get caught? Pay the piper what´s due and never be alowed to play again. Period.

Some of what causes me the most bile secretion is the whole poopstorm about cheating with AAS or perf. enhancing when filming another teams game board gets a slap on the wrist: you cheat, you get a new job. Fair is fair when its accross the board.

I found the correct spelling- it's the Sheaf Toss.

Kate

#132, Tim Hamilton writes:

"I just think a lot of folks are quick to judge, quick to condemn, and quick to make personal attacks. Let's study the problem objectively and try to discover why it is occurring, and then how we can fix it. Because fix it we must."

Perhaps the very fact that we do judge cheaters and we do hold them accountable is precisely how we fix the problem. If you take Jones at her word, she is sorry to have let people down. If people didn't judge her, she couldn't have let them down, and therfore would have no reason to appologize. So what exactly is wrong with judging her? Surely you do not object to us thinking highly of those of great accomplishment? Why should we not think poorly of cheaters?

I submit that you have the problem and the solution exactly backwards.

Did yesterday's WOD in 30:54 w/ .75mi bike subs for first 3 runs, otherwise as rx'ed. All power cleans from the floor. I find it chancey to skip a rest day, but this WOD was too sweet to pass up. Now I'll read everyone's posts and see how everyone's doing.

Am I the only one who thinks that there are probably some crossfitters using steroids out there right now?

Coach Glassman apparently has some experience with steroids himself as he lists a progression of the most effective ways to get big on this website, including Bodybuilding with and without steroids, and Crossfit with and without steroids. This is not to say he used them, as I don't know and don't really care. Just that it appears he's been around steroid use, as most high level trainers probably have as well.

As Crossfit grows in popularity and there is more money, fame, and recognition to be won by being a top-notch crossfitter, I predict there will be more steroid use and other forms of cheating among Crossfit athletes, and (gasp!) perhaps even some lying about times and weights posted on this and other websites.

Crossfitters are people too. Some will cheat, some will admit it, some will be outraged, and life goes on.

Hari

Let me make myself clear. Evidently I'm failing to do that.

I think Jones should be stripped of her medals. She should do whatever time the court finds appropriate for the offense.

When I say "people are quick to judge," I mean on a personal level, not a court of law. We have a responsibility to judge people who break the law.

What's ironic is I had this lengthy discussion with a co-worker where he was acting as an apologist for Barry Bonds. He went on and on about the pressure to perform, and he did not even consider Bonds a cheater. I berated him for hours. It was classic.

At least Jones has enough character (at least I'd like to think so) to publicly apologize, unlike Bonds, who is arrogant, confrontational, and in stark contrast, unapologetic. I think it's poetic justice how they're putting that ball in the Cooperstown baseball hall of fame with an asterisk on it.

So, that being said, I think a worthwhile question is, how can we remove the incentive to cheat? Clearly right now, many athletes feel that the benefits outweigh the risks. I'm a firm believe that people's behavior is all about incentives. How can we manipulate the situation so that there is a greater incentive to stay clean?

Gale, Thanks for sharing your good news. The inspiration that you provide far outweighs the sadness that shrouds our pro athletes on steroids. Dan D's post explaining CF was as clear and to the point as anything I've read in a while. Erin, way to go! Kate, Paul, Hari, Bingo, Tim Hamilton, and others: thanks for your insightful posts. I'm sitting here reading what your folks have to say and...not watching televised sporting events! How cool is that?

#141, Tim,

Thanks, I understand your position.

all I know is when my 8 year old son watches the videos and we do the WOD's( yes I have a child Crossfitter)the first thing he says is "Do I look like Greg yet?" Hooray for true role models-the family of Crossfitters!!

#132 Tim Hamilton

Agreed. Thanks for the reply. I guess I just took your post the wrong way. Sorry

Mike

RAZE,

I get what you were saying. It motivated me as well. Don't sweat the window-lickers who feel some small pesonal gain by pointing out the short comings of others.

To others,

Doping and drug use are not new to professional or amateur sports. We are just better at detecting those who violate the regs. Previous generations were not any cleaner than the current generation of athletes.

Happy CrossFitting.

Wanted to be productive today and work on some weaknesses. I can do bar muscle ups but just got some rings and hadn't figured out the ring MU yet so I thought I would give those a try and couple that with Double Unders.

I was able to do jumping MU's on the rings with the rings at a height about mid forarm when stretched so I decided to do the following

10 rounds of:
3 jumping MU
35 Double Unders

This was a good pairing because after the DU's I really wasn't able to jump quite as much for the MU's so I actually started to get the motion that I need for these. I didn't time it but was definately smoked when finished. Hopefully I did not destroy myself for tomorrow.

Mike

very cool will have to try this out next week.

ps
for those who dig the zeplin cover:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOchz7IBkHs

http://rodgab.com/index.html

Raze, don't listen to the haters and keep posting with pride!

IMO you can never have too much "300", "The Matrix", or "Fight Club". I used to feel the same about Star Wars until George Lucas cured me of that.

DanD, you sound like a religious zealot. And at the risk of feeling like the Senator who flew in to Guyana to visit Jonestown I must beg of you ... tone it down, you're scaring the kids.

In matters of principle, stand like a rock… Thomas Jefferson

Raze,
enjoyed the post

Raze #39, loved the post. When I'm sitting at my combat outpost in a month, that'll motivate me to CrossFit instead of watching movies in-between missions.

#84 Apolloswabbie

Well said, my friend, well said.

Even though it's so pervasive in pro sports doesn't make it right. I'm also thankful that in my profession the competition for "starting spots" isn't so intense that the temptation of these drugs is one I have to deal with. But as you alluded to, it's easy for any of us to not see the big picture of life (forest) due to all the unimportant issues (trees) we choose to focus on.

gotta laugh at tim h's posts.

if marion jones isn't a thief in his book, fine for him. but, let's consider it from the financial standpoint of her victims.

let$ ju$t a$k the non-cheating runner$ who came in 2nd to marion, and con$equently didn't get the lucrative endor$ement contract$ that marion did. $pecifically, let'$ a$k to $ee if the 2nd place girl$ think marion $tole money from them when $he cheated her way to olympic glory.

let's think logically instead of focusing on marion's pretty lying little face.

marion stole money from the rightful winners by cheating. same as if she only ran half of what the official race distance was. and, what about maid marion's big post race tent press conferences where she put on a big emotional show and seduced the reporters into believing that she wasn't on 'roids? oh please. how about that little BS show of hers? trifiling woman. her words area a lot less credible than her ex-husband's "i put a hypodermic needle into her butt" testimony.

kinda guessing that if tim h was going to be consistent, he would have to agree that rosie ruiz should be declared the winner of the 1980 boston marathon. sure, she cheated, but she also crossed the finish line first. if you cheat to win, then rosie's a winner!

no appreciable difference. marion = rosie. neither is my idea of a sports hero.

How do you tolerate cheating by degrees, according to some sort of sliding morality scale? How do you parse cheating into the loveable and unlovable? I don't do that. Am I supposed to just love all the cheaters and give them full credit as if they weren't cheaters? Or is that a privilege only for the pretty cheaters who lie convincingly? Which cheaters should I idolize? I'm so confused... It's hopeless. I'm just going to go on thinking cheaters who steal lucrative contracts from the real winners are theives. Sorry. My shortcoming.

No, wait, I think I'm onto something. Cheaters are worthy and admira.. huh?

Rats. False alarm. Lost it. Still not getting it. Cheaters who steal are theives. Darn.

Tim, your logic is just too subtle for me. I'm stuck in black and white when it comes to stealing. How in the world can I trust a woman who lies and steals with the single most important thing in her life? Her defining attribute?

Simple me.

cheating is, ummmm... cheating. and, when you cheat to get lucrative endorsement contracts at the expense of the rightful winners, it's called, ummmm.... $tealing. so, i'm still gonna watch my purse if marion's around.

But, thanks for the laugh.

and, RAZE, loved the post. thank you. that's a cut 'n paste for my little collection of motivators. i know you didn't write it, but thank you for posting it since I hadn't seen it before. inspirational words I'll draw on when I'm daunted.

#107, Phil Mancini wrote:

". . . the public isn't hurt or damaged by what an athlete puts into their body."

As I said earlier, I disagree. Any man or woman who competes in athletics and any parent who has a child who competes is potentially harmed.

Explain how competitors and/or parents of a child are harmed by what another person puts in their body and I'll politely concede the point.

#107, Phil Mancini wrote:

". . . the public isn't hurt or damaged by what an athlete puts into their body."

#127 wrote: As I said earlier, I disagree. Any man or woman who competes in athletics and any parent who has a child who competes is potentially harmed.

Explain how competitors and/or parents of a child are harmed by what another person puts in their body and I'll politely concede the point.

Ran "annie" today in 6:03. I still can't beat that 6 min. mark.

Phil Mancini--

Perhaps I should start by noting that the actions of the pros filter down many levels, so I do not see this issue being isolated to pros only.

As I said, "The honest athletes are put at a significant disadavantage. Those who behave illegally set the standard" and thereby put pressure on others to behave illegally to competitive.

Or as SpiderChick wrote: "marion stole money from the rightful winners by cheating."

Illegally using performance-enhancing drugs is not a victimless crime.

Cheers,

56 y.o. 5'10 155lb Yesterday WOD 37:15.

I suppose it's some consolation that I was not alone in strugging with this one.

I tried to post something like this earlier, and the Crossfit Spam Filter blocked it for some reason. Try again I guess.

When I was reading some of the earlier posts, I saw a few to the tone of "I couldn't care less about (insert defamed athlete here)". For those that feel that way, I say you probably never saw their athletic feats in person.

My Marion Jones story. I was a sprinter/hurdler in college, and Marion Jones ran at Penn Relays when I was there. She was the anchor leg of a 4 X 100 meter relay. She got the baton on the straightaway, and she was behind the leader by 3-4 yards. In a world-class level 100 meter race, 3-4 yards may as well be a mile. Anyway, she proceeded to eat up that three yards and go by the girl like she was standing still.

It was one of the most dominating athletic feats I had ever witnessed. It was a thing of beauty.

Now I have to assume that the performance I marvelled at and talked about long after was tainted.

For those that don't care, I envy you. Personally, my day seems just a little bit more gray.

#163 wrote:

Or as SpiderChick wrote: "marion stole money from the rightful winners by cheating."

Who were the "rightful winners" and who said they didn't cheat as well? If knowledge serves, Marion Jones didn't test positive for any performance enhancing drugs in 2000.

Spider Chick,
I'm glad I afforded you a good laugh. I don't know how you're reaching that conclusion that I condone cheating, or even degrees of cheating etc...as you say. Not sure where you're getting that from. Anyone who read all my posts can see exactly where I stand. Most of your post is making reference to ideas that frankly I did not even express. Maybe you're getting mixed up.

You know there are people who, when engaged in a debate, argument, heated discussion, etc... feel the need to resort immediately to ad hominem attacks. To me that is the most obvious sign of weakness. As soon as you start making personal attacks (I'm watching my handbag) it makes it clear that either you're argument is not strong enough to speak for itself, or you feel the petty desire to "pile on." The ability to resist that urge, in my opinion, is a far greater sign of confidence and maturity.

#165, Tim,

I read Spider Chick's original comment as expressing her own value-rating system and vouching for it with her own money.

She wrote that she wouldn't think twice about leaving her handbag in a space accesable to CrossFitters. She feels this way based on her experience that CrossFitters are the exception to the rule. (The rule being that you never leave valuables unguarded among strangers.)

On the other hand, Spider Chick states that she would watch her bag around Marion Jones. The article states that not only did Jones admit to using steriods, but also to lying to multiple government agents and lying about her knowledge involving a check-fraud scheme.

Stating that one would watch her valuables around someone who admits to multiple felonies (one of which involves literally stealing money) hardly seems to me to be a "totally ridiculous cheap shot." (#96)

laughing even harder...

#121 QUOTE-# 82 Wade, the second dynamax is just used as a depth gage for the squat, making sure you get deep enough.Comment #121 - Posted by a noble at October 6, 2007 12:33 PM

Thanks, a noble. But is there a benefit in using the ball for those of us with knee issues? As a gauge, does it keep us from going too deep? Does it provide a safety net as well? Or, in other words, if I know how deep to go (where my butt would touch an imaginary Dynamax ball), what benefit would having a real ball there provide? Thanks.

Yep Hari, I hear ya. I understand the spirit of her original post. Maybe my words "totally ridiculous" were a bit strong. Re-reading her post, I still feel the same way though. I still think it's unduly harsh and mean-spirited to characterize Jones that way.
Sheesh, lighten up Spider Chick, have you met her? Do you know anything about her? Would you like someone to talk about you in the manner in which you feel free to talk about her? Probably not. It's easy to play judge and jury from a comfy distance. I agree she should be punished, but that doesn't mean I need to attack her personally.

Phil--

Marion has never tested positive.

But she just admitted in court she started taking drugs in 1999--before the 2000 Olympics.

Phil--

PS--just came across the following. Score one for you:

“The International Olympic Committee are to explore their legal options in an attempt to avoid the humiliation of having to hand over an Olympic gold medal to the disgraced Greek sprinter, Katerina Thanou, in the wake Marion Jones's dramatic confession that she took an illegal steroid before the 2000 Sydney Olympics.
...
If the IOC fail to find a legal loophole, they will be in the invidious position of having to hand a medal to the woman who, along with fellow Greek athlete Kostas Kenteris, tarnished the Athens Olympics by missing a drugs test the night before the opening ceremony and then allegedly faking a motorbike accident.”

Tim,

I think our disagreement merits further review.

Your point, as I understand it, is that it is harsh and unfair to characterize Jones on a personal level. Jones has made a mistake, apologized to the public, and will pay a price (jail time and probable forfeiture of her medals). You write (#67) that you accept her apology, and it is my sense that you feel the rest of us should as well.

But I don't accept her apology (and clearly, neither does Spider Chick). You ask (#169) whether Spider Chick would like someone to talk about her in the manner in which she feels free to talk about Jones. The question doesn't exactly make sense. If the question is whether we would be comfortable having other people judge our character, the answer is yes, extremely comfortable. If the question is whether we would be comfortable having others call us dishonest or untrustworthy (when in fact, we are neither) the answer is no. That shoe simply doesn't fit. We do not wish to be falsely accused of anything, but Jones is not being falsely accused. We are judging her on the basis of conduct to which she has admitted.

You write that you are comfortable with the Olympic Committee (judging) and stripping Jones of her medals. You are apparently comfortable with the Court judging and sentencing Jones. What you seem uncomfortable with is the public judging Jones. But isn't that ironic? But for a desire on the part of Jones to be measured and judged by the public, we wouldn't know she exists. If it is acceptable for the public to judge Jones on the basis of her athletic abilities, why is it improper to judge her on the fact that she has mislead that very public?

Hari, I agree with you. We should judge, and we are, through the courts. All I'm referring to is the inclination some people have to take it a step further and get personal.

But I am curious: Why not accept her apology? It doesn't cost me anything. What's the downside to it?

#173, Tim, writes:

"But I am curious: Why not accept her apology? It doesn't cost me anything. What's the downside to it?"

Multiple reasons, including: (1) the perception that it is too little, too late, coming as it does long after the fact; (2) the perception that it is less than sincere, intended to offset some of her prison time; (3) the perception that it is less than complete, ignoring as it does the fact that she cheated the second place finisher out of what rightfully hers; (4) the perception that she is still lying, claiming as she does that her steroid use was "unknowing;" (5) the belief that readily granting forgiveness decreases the incentive for other athletes not to cheat, i.e.., it is good for athletes to know that there is a high price to pay for abusing the public's trust, higher than can be paid with a simple apology.

On the other hand, I see no reason for you not to accept her apology, if you are so inclined. I do note that you have done your own cost-benefit analysis, stating that for you, accepting her apology does not cost you anything.

The costs of Jones’ behavior are different for each of us. Spider Chick, for example, values the peace of mind she has when she is in the presence of fellow CrossFitters, knowing she need not worry about whether her possessions are safe. For her, there is a high value to being around people she can trust implicitly, and similarly she pays a cost when being around those she cannot trust. I feel the same way.

There is also a cost to being around people who seek to fool us into believing they are trustworthy when they are not. Consider for example Phil Mancini’s comment (# 164): “Who were the ‘rightful winners’ and who said they didn’t cheat as well?” Implicit in this comment is the fact that cheating by athletes like Jones leaves all of us not knowing for certain whether the results we see with our eyes are valid. The other athletes operate under a cloud of suspicion. Spectators are denied the opportunity of knowing whether what they are watching is legitimate. For those who love sport and competition these are very high costs to pay.

Hari--

"...the perception that it is less than complete, ignoring as it does the fact that she cheated the second place finisher out of what rightfully hers. . ."

see my comment #171, above

The second place finisher was probably a doper too. Someone got cheated. But who?

For those of you keeping score at home you will note that I choose my Rest Day spots carefully. I have some thoughts today.

Marion Jones cheated. And then she lied. And then she got caught. Fact, fact, and fact. Now she has admitted her misdeeds under the gun of sentencing. Fact. There are almost too many levels of significance to address here, but I'll take a shot at a couple.

Professional athletes have a short window of opportunity in which to make their mark, both financially and for posterity. There is an enormous amount of money to be made for those at the top of their field, even in second tier sports like track and field. That is the incentive. The "cat and mouse" game that ensues between the athletes and the governing/enforcement bodies then creates the farce that we have seen played out incessantly in sports over the last two decades. Really, now, only one decision is left to be made: either test every paid athlete weekly (the price of admission to make your living at sports) or throw it open to "anything goes."

And yet there are consequences to "anything goes" as several people either acknowledge or ignore above. Charles Barkley is wrong when he says that professional athletes are not role models. Children and young athletes and adult amateurs take their lead from professional athletes, especially those who are charismatic and who produce extraordinary results like Ms. Jones. Even if it were to be shown that short-term, low-dose usage of performance enhancing drugs (steroids, HGH, EPO, etc) is relatively safe, how do you do a risk/benefit analysis on such usage in a 14 year old? Because I firmly believe that it won't be just the occasional 14 year old (or 17, or whatever) who considers this as is now the case, it will of necessity be MOST 14 year olds. Ms Jones' (or Ben Johnson's, or Barry Bonds' or...) steroid use is not harmful to anyone else? Nonsense. The "trickle down effect "is real right now.

If you decide to make your living as a public figure, especially if you accept money for endorsements thereby profiting from your notoreity, you implicitly accept the fact that people will comment on your sucesses and failures. People will judge your performances, athletic and otherwise. My take on Spider Chick's evaluation of Ms. Jones and her integrity is that it is not only spot on, but that it is also perfectly withing the PR "Marquis of Queesbury" rules of engagement. Lie to yourself ("I didn't knowingly take steroids) and it is easier to lie to others; lie once or twice and it is easier to lie the next time. I don't share Spider Chick's specific worries about Ms. Jones (all of my purses are ugly knock-offs), but I share her sentiment.

Forgiveness is irrrelevant since forgiveness is a rather intimate personal gesture and I don't feel that I have that type of relationship with Ms. Jones. There are consequences to all of our choices; those consequences tend to be more gentle and less painful if you continually strive to "do the next right thing." IMO Ms. Jones has yet to do so, her "confession" notwhithstanding.

#175, TomR, writes:

"The second place finisher was probably a doper too. Someone got cheated. But who?"

Your point, as I understand it, is that while the second-place finisher may not be legally guilty at this point, she is probably factually guilty. Assuming this is the case, it does not change the fact that others certainly were cheated as a result of Jones' dishonesty. Whether the public will who each of the true victims were doesn't change the fact that there were victims.

Any woman who knows that she did not cheat while competing against Jones has for years been denied both the self-knowledge and the public recognition that she deserved a higher place finish.

Okay I'm having this big paradigm shift goin on in my head right now. Bingo, you carry a purse?

Great comments Hari...

I don't know if any of you guys watch pro cycling. I love it and this year's TDF was particularly disturbing. One day you'd be rooting for someone, and the next their whole team would be gone for doping. I found myself not knowing who to believe, the TDF organizers, the labs, the athletes, the tell-all book writers coming out with details years after the fact, the commentators were even befuddled and didn't know what angle to take or who to be angry at.

I do think that cycling is leading the way towards cleaning things up, and implementing better systems. Basically the cyclists have to report their whereabouts year round, in case the authorities want to show up for a random test.

One rider in the tour was kicked out for saying he was in Mexico when he was really in Spain. He never tested positive, but the assumption is why lie about your whereabouts. Fascinating stuff.

There is also the problem that the people at the top of the anti-doping crusade, such as Dick Pound, head of WADA, can be so over-zealous in their pursuit of athletes, that they run roughshod over procedures in testing, and publicly announce someone's guilt before it's even confirmed.

Again, I really think it comes down to incentives. As long as people love sports and competition, and will pay high ticket prices, as long as we as a society, place the high value on athletic performance, as long as TV ratings are breaking records for things like the World Cup, the Super Bowl, the Tour De France, the World Series, the Olympics, as long as we pay our teachers about a tenth of what we pay our pro athletes, we have an upside-down set of values.

There is a great book I recently read which for those who like to engage the mind, you might enjoy. It's called "Freakonomics." I didn't necessarily agree with everything in it, but it was a very refreshing and interesting view of the complex relationships between some unlike things. There is a big section on cheating, and what drives people to do it. I found it fascinating.

Cheers to all for some lively discussion.

24/m/168#

WU: 400m jog, stretches, pullups,
WOD: J.T. sub 105# shoulder press for HSPU

much tougher than I imagined. had to drop the 105# to 95# in middle of 15s just to lift the bar. upper body is shot.

how does one make the transition to HSPU? The weight difference is phenomenal. Is there a way to assist without requiring a second person?

after: heavy squats
10 - 135#
6 - 185#
3 - 205#
3 - 205#
3 - 205#
5 - 185#
no strength increase, but major form increase. trying to return to old standard of 225x5 bu with good form.

No surprise, but so sad for athletics in general. Its not even the use that bothers me so much (though i do not at all condone a drug of any kind, much less one that has heavy carcinogenic properties), but it is the cheating. To have desire so strong, that it takes away your ability to pause, and consider consequence is sad. To have desire so strong that you can stop and consider consequence, and make a training choice, is awesome. Whether it delivers your current goal or not, when you pursue with determination, you will reach so many currently unknown goals, that it is just awesome!

I hope the future athletic stars could just see the pain in Marion at this time in her life.

Bingo in #177: "For those of you keeping score at home you will note that I choose my Rest Day spots carefully. I have some thoughts today.

Marion Jones cheated. And then she lied. And then she got caught. Fact, fact, and fact. Now she has admitted her misdeeds under the gun of sentencing. Fact. There are almost too many levels of significance to address here, but I'll take a shot at a couple."

Kind of an ironic statement about taking the sincerity of her apology into question. I get the feeling (based off rest day articles from a few months ago) many (not Bingo in particular, just using his statement as a jumping off point) in these forums condone torture as a method to get valuable (read sincere) information from prisoners. At what point does the threat make the information more sincere?

I always take the point that anything given under threat or coercion is always suspect. With that, I never believe any public apology. Usually it feels like the actual statement is "I'm sorry I got caught with enough evidence to hang me."

As far as cheating goes, give it a rest. This revelation of Steroid use is just an offshoot of a real criminal investigation involving theft and illicit drug distribution. Sadly the pointless story of some lady trying to get an edge on the competition gets better air play.

What I'd like is to see is a mandatory steroid use rule put into play. Then all those that cheat don't have worry about any medals being stripped from them as they won't have any.

Nuke-Marine #182

Hmmm, lots of territory covered in that post, even if we don't include the enormous distance that must be travelled from anything in my post to the issue of torturing prisoners. I think it's beyond ironic that my post is used as the "jumping off point" for that logical leap in that I have assiduously avoided said topics.

"What I'd like to see is mandatory stereoid use..." is the polar opposite of my suggestion that all professional athletes submit to weekly testing as a condition of their participation. While it would be equally effective in shielding us from the farce of the present morality play, such a strategy fails on every other aspect of the issue (eg. children influenced by pros, etc.).

As a stand-alone commentary #177 is free of irony. Sarcasm (irony's b@stard cousin), however, is present for sure ("all of my purses are ugly knock-offs). Geez, anyone who really knows me knows that if I carried a purse I would NEVER carry a tacky knock-of (rest easy, Tim Hamilton).

attempted a variation of this video WOD today (Monday 10/7).

3 rounds of:

30 double-unders
20 2-for-1 Wall Ball shots, 15 pound ball
20 DB swings, 45-lb DB

14 minutes exactly (well, 14:00.70).

Sucking wind very hard. Very nice WOD!!

M/31/195

Coming back off a rest cycle, did a rest day Oly workout:
Row 1000m
CFWUx2

20 snatches (10@ 50kg, 10@ 60kg)
10 cleans (all at 70kg)
3x3 front squats (225#, 185, 185)
3x10 db clean and press (40#, 40, 50)

Anyone as self rightous and defensive as Jones just HAD to be guilty. I've felt it in my bones for years. She deserves to be stripped of all awards and to make restitution to all who have sponsored her. K-

Really. Does anyone really give a shxx if Jones lost her medals or that she cheated? I don't care, never cared, or never will care if these idiots cheat. I sweat, bleed, meet pukie and Rhabdo(almost) because I would not have it any other way. One post stated that the FEDs were looking into prosecuting. That would be because thay have no self initiative in finding or producing their own cases. They sit on their ass wishing a case would fall in their lap. Forget about securing the border or crime rates in cities. I know. Why don't we prosecute Jones? I have worked with the FEDs for 10yrs and it makes me sick as to what goes in.

day off yesterday, driving to cottage for Canadian Thanksgiving
wod modified as follows- 400m run, 75-22.5# db power cleans, 75 situps, 400m run, 60- db power cleans, 60 sit ups, 400m run, 50 db power cleans, 50 sit ups, 400m run - 20:13

75 lb shoulder press
regular dips
bosu ball pushups
fudged time
thanks crossfit

13 for 13

wsod: Fire Fire - M.I.A.

Are those shoes the Puma H Streets? I've been reading up on POSE running and everyone seems to be having good luck with them

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