September 12, 2007
Buddy Lee, Olympic wrestler, 10 time World Medalist, twice US Marine Athlete of the Year, trainer to 25 Olympic sports, and world's foremost rope jumping authority, has joined the CrossFit family to help boost our coordination, accuracy, agility, and balance practice with one of the simplest, most affordable, and portable tools available: the jump rope.
Intro to the Jump Rope - video [wmv] [mov]
"A Real Neocon Speaks: Norman Podhoretz on this war we’re in.", National Review Online
Post thoughts to comments.
Posted by lauren at September 12, 2007 10:58 AM
Read the article earlier! Great stuff!
Buddy Lee coming on board. World Class! I've read nothing but good things about him, his products and his philosophies on jumping rope. It'll be nice to see some more rope jumping incorporated (even though I have two left feet it seems).
Knew about Buddy Lee for a long time... It was only a matter of time before I knew he would come on Board. YEAH!!!
Man he is a jump rope master!!! He did a freaking Yoda move in the middle of that video. I learned how much I was screwing up using a jump rope, thanks for the video! Can't wait for more.
I heard Mr. Podhoretz with Hugh Hewitt today on the radio saying the same things in this article.
I'm glad he wrote his book, but I won't be buying it. He's just putting together everything a good citizen should already know.
Buddy Lee is the Wizard of the Rope!
(his ropes are also top notch!)
Hahaha...let the games begin. I suspect this article was posted to really inflame the debate.
The part I like the most is when Podhoretz states:
"The following things have gone right in Iraq: It has been liberated from a monstrous tyrant whose regime was the main secular face of the two-headed monster by which we were attacked six years ago. (The Taliban regime in Afghanistan was the main religious face.)"
Evidence for us having been attacked by Iraq on September 11th please?
I said it before and I will say it again, I foresee two ways of eliminating the threat of Islamofascism. Nuke their entire religion off the face of the planet or just simply stop sticking our noses in their affairs, namely their oil affairs. Have we forgotten that most of the hijackers were Saudi?
Ok, I've seen a lot of cool things, cool videos, pictures, ect. being posted, but I'll have to say, his jump rope little solo was one of the coolest, if not the coolest, things I've ever seen posted here.
Oh. My. Lord.
Buddy Lee is like the Michael Jackson of jump rope.
Great video, I know we already have a double under video but a basic jump rope video has been long overdue. Thanks Buddy
Buddy Lee is one of my idols! I didn't see this coming..
Good things CrossFit, good things.
AWWWW YEAHHH....Buddy Lee is down too?!
Is there no end to the talent associated with CF?
Time to get jiggy wit it!!
Awesome news about Buddy Lee. It just keeps getting better. His rope selection is a bit bewildering, though. Any recommended rope for CrossFit?
Universatile, you are miss reading the quote. The two heads are Religious and Secular Islamic aggression. Both are responsible for fueling the fire. Iraq under Hussain was the most noteworthy and belligerent of the secular.
I have Buddy Lee's jump rope training book and use skipping in a lot of my CrossFit workouts as a sub for running, looking forward to see more videos on advanced techniques :)
#6 I would compare him to michael jordan not jackson I didn't see any kids
Ok let me see,
"The following things have gone right in Iraq: It has been liberated from a monstrous tyrant whose regime was the main secular face of the two-headed monster by which we were attacked six years ago. (The Taliban regime in Afghanistan was the main religious face.) And then the seeds of democratization were planted through three elections, the writing of a constitution, and the enjoyment of previously unimaginable liberties."
1. Saddam attacked us? I must of missed that FOX news report. Come on.
2. Enjoyment of previously unimagined liberties? From what I have read Iraq was one of the most liberal states in the Middle East before we stuck our head in there. Before the Gulf War in the '90's they were known for their universities and places of learning. Women were allowed to be doctors/lawyer and lead professional lives in Iraq at one time. Our allies don't even allow that.
"It’s essential in the long run, because what we are trying to do is make the Middle East safe for America by making it safe for democracy" in reference to the need for Democracy in the Middle East.
1. I love Democracy, but is it the only form of government that can work? Short answer no. I mean seriously, what we call democracy is in its infancy. We are only a little over 200 years into our experiement with it. I don't think it is a fit in all societies.
I love my country, I just have a little problem with some of the higher ups. KS.
And most importantly Buddy lee is the man.
"I said it before and I will say it again, I foresee two ways of eliminating the threat of Islamofascism. Nuke their entire religion off the face of the planet or just simply stop sticking our noses in their affairs, namely their oil affairs. Have we forgotten that most of the hijackers were Saudi?"
Got to disagree with that. It takes a McDonald's in Bagdad, rap on Radio Free Middle East, and endless posters of Jessica Biel sprinkled over the countryside. Not to mention Levi's and a Pepsi challenge on every corner. They don't stand a chance.
Buddy Lee is awesome and I used to despise jump roping until now...I am going to choke myself out with one for my ignorance.
#5 Who cares about the stinkin evidence...IT IS ALOT BIGGER THAN IRAQ...that is the crux of the article. WWIV BABY
#16 America F@! yeah
Send Buddy Lee
He appears to know what is going on...the interviewer asks some hot questions like "How much of a problem is Islam?" Which Podhoretz answers well. This Podhoretz appears to know that the war in Iraq is not going to be won like WW1 or 2. There won't ever be that last hill, bunker or building.
I have my own thoughts on 9/11 and the Bushs.
I think that this war won't ever end...there will always be a resistance. I sympathize with the soldiers (and their families), and the Iraqi people. The country was invaded on false infomation, and I believe it wasn't so much the people and conditions on the surface as the oil under their once beutiful country and culture.
Imagine, being invaded and occupied, bombed in the night. How many funerals do you go to before you join the resistance...5? 20? 100? These people aren't 'terrorists' or 'insurgents', but a people fighting for their lives and families.
Sad...it's good people fighting other good people. I know the Americans mean well, but the fact remains, especially in the eyes and hearts of Iraq, that there is a fair amount of collateral damage after years of fighting.
However, that being said, if the Americans pulled out now over anything less than a year (likely longer), there would be a genocide and civil war...
Rock and a hard place.
Although I'm not religious (I'm a buddhist), may God and Allah bless them all. May everyone come/go/stay home safe.
To my American neighbours: may your dead from 9/11 rest in peace (conspiracy theories or not).
I too enjoyed Buddy Lee's solo..."Ok, whatever Buddy Lee did in the video, 100 times for time." :)
To #10, I have a Buddy Lee Speed rope and it works great for double unders. I have tried several others and this one works the best of any I have tried. Have Fun!
Thank you, and well written #5, #13 and #19
Unfortunately, I agree with you in part. I don't think the terrorism will stop unless we nuke the entire middle east (not that I condone the killing of innocent people just don't see anything else working). Unfortunately again, I am less optimistic about the option of just getting out of their business. It is my understanding (I am no expert so if someone else feel free to correct me) of Islam that one of the fundamental beliefs is that the nation of Islam is destined and prophesied to become the most powerful nation in the world and until that happens the "evil Westerners" will be enemies. Also, because of the fact that the only real power and wealth that Middle Eastern countries enjoy comes from our (the West's) dependence on their oil, I don't think ignoring them and their oil will necessarily instill feelings of friendship or tolerance.
Thanks for the responses yesterday (Jared, JPW), they confirmed what I suspected. But it's always best to be sure.
Just last week, on #42 of the Fabulous 50's DU's, my Bally's jumprope snapped for the last time. My new Rolls Royce of jump ropes is going to ship tomorrow. :)
I agree about feeling sorry for the people of Iraq and pretty much everyone involved in the current conflict there, but I don't know that I agree that the people who are part of the resistance are just regular people "good guys" fighting the other good guys. Most of the collateral damage that occurred happened at the outset of the conflict with the airstrikes and everything (which I must say was totally unacceptable), but the insurgents gain forces every day. I think that, if anything, the majority of the collateral damage is now coming from the insurgents. I mean you don't see American troops suicide bombing and car bombing etcetera. So, while I sympathize to some degree with the people of Iraq, I also firmly believe that if everyone in Iraq who claims to not support terrorism would fight it (even if this means turning in or fighting your neighbors and friends) as zealously as the insurgents and terrorists fight the Western world, American troops would be totally unnecessary in the region. So, to some extent I feel like a lot of the "innocents" are victims of their own complacency.
I thought I had a pretty cool double under. ha ha! his rope is HOT!
World War, World War, World War, World war.
Sounds like the Ministry of Truth's talking points for the propagation of the Ministry of Peace's double-thinking raison d'etre: war is peace.
Military industrial complex? No way man!
"I don't think ignoring them and their oil will necessarily instill feelings of friendship or tolerance."
No but it will dampen their hatred. And they would not have funds or weapons if it was not to international oil dependence on their region. If multinational corporations weren't funneling money into the region, they would still be in the dark ages, where their worst offending of the three Abrahamic religions belongs.
Would September 11th have even occurred if the world wasn't so dependent on the motor car? Probably not. They would be busy squabbling amongst themselves using WWI issue rusty rifles not AK-47's RPG's and grenades. Remember, we helped Saddam and Bin Laden into power. Hypocrisy if I have ever seen it.
Haven't read the article, yet. But awesome news, Buddy Lee in the House! My jump rope skills are significantly lacking. Can't wait to see what he has in store for us.
I love it when CrossFit gets the best of the best to impart their knowledge on us.
I've been to two Certification Seminars and thuroughly enjoyed the chance to hear Coach Rip and Angela Hart share their wisdom. I've studied most of Jeff Martone's marterial (which I highly recommend) and I can't wait to seeing what Buddy Lee brings to the table. Welcome.
Give it all back to the Ottomans. Problem solved.
Okay, I'm going to brag here, but my sweet husband did the Buddy Lee thing a ways back (6+ years), and yes, he has been Crossfiting since late 2002. Eric is a total trendsetter, and ya all should be jealous. ;-)
Best wishes to everyone!
Sweet video, we've got some of those Buddy Lee ropes up at OPT and they are awesome. Those were some wild moves he was making there, nice bandana, too...
#31, you're right but you'd have had to get in a little earlier...Buddy Lee taught me to jumprope back in 1993! He's a character and helped coach my wrestling club aeons ago at Larsen's gym in Quantico VA. Enjoy the rest day all!
Yes! Buddy Lee kicks @$$!
Yeah Buddy, great to have you as part of the CF family!
Instead of using repeated alphanumeric characters to identify your posts, try using "Control F" to "find" your name!
Looks like I need to buy a new jump rope!
Lots of straw men floating around here today.
I dont think poderhetz is saying Saddam was responsible for 9/11, I think he's saying that Saddam and his ilk were the secular face of radical islam. Its been established that Iraq was a training ground for terrorists, it harbored known terrorists and gave them safe haven, and that they were providing material, money and support for terrorist actions against the west.
Its true, that in respect to state sponsors of terrorism, Iraq has always had a role in fomenting and supporting action against the west. Iraq's government under saddam was primarily secular in its governing. It was never the religious Shaira influenced rule of law, it was Saddams law. The Taliban were the face of a government controled by a religious law (shaira), and it too harbored, trained and supported terrorists, primarily al Qaida.
While they may not work hand in hand, their goals are the same. Destroy the west. When people wake up and realize that there is an enemy, and no amount of debate or discussion with them will persuade them to not hate us and not want to kill us, then maybe people will actually accept that there is a threat to our nation, and our way of life. If allowed to move on, unchecked, it will only be a matter of time before you are put to the sword.
Almost forgot.. I have a Buddy Lee rope too. Worth every penny, even though I still suck at double unders. The rope comes with a Buddy Lee trading card. I am so gonna dress up like him for Halloween.
Back,abs and shoulders are dead from past 3 days!! Well needed rest day.....Boy I love CrossFit!!
"Lots of straw men floating around here today.
I dont think poderhetz is saying Saddam was responsible for 9/11"
straw men? here's the quote: "...regime was the main secular face of the two-headed monster by which we were attacked six years ago"
sounds pretty clear what he means. and if you mean that iraq was a training ground for terrorists, i guess all the intelligence debunking the link between iraq and al qaeda means nothing to you, unless you mean palestinians... which you probably relate to a struggle with the "west"... israel has the most powerful military in the middle east, they can take care of themselves.
al qaeda is the threat and the enemy. if islamofascism is the threat to our way of life, our freedoms, etc, then call up a draft and fight the good fight.. have the president demand an immediate reduction on oil consumption. mobilize the whole country...
if this is such a threat, why was there a tax cut to the rich, and a plea to go shopping? wtf? this country was under greater threat in the revolution, civil war, world war I & II, and the cold war, and came out with what we had before this current administration decided to gut civil liberties.
can't have it both ways. if this is the great threat, then everything should be geared to stop it, but maybe we should do with a group of people who haven't been wrong about EVERYTHING
This jump roping is something I can now seriously sink my teeth into. I’m afraid to do a lot of the different lifts without coach (Poor form, and bad habits, etc…). Anyways, jump roping will be much safer, so rock on.
How much better is jump roping then say running down the street?
Off topic now. I’ve only been to Afghanistan, and so I’ve seen the after effects of destroying a country. I don’t believe making parking lots out of nations makes the world safer. To be honest, I don’t have any ideas of my own to solve the situation in Iraq, or deal with these Islam-fascism. The best ideas I’ve heard were from Fareed Zakaria’s analysis on America after Bush leaves office. ( It’s a Newsweek article which I encourage everyone to read, if you had not already). What I do know is that when Russia left Afghanistan, those who survived and were around (there were over a million Afghans killed, 5 times that fled.), looked at each other and celebrated their win. They were still breathing, and so they won. For a lot, it wasn’t even their country, it was just a place where Muslims were being attacked, and they had to be there for it. Israel Second war on Lebanon is another example, where people stood on their rubble and declared victory as Israel withdrew. I’m pretty confident when America does decide to leave Iraq, and people are standing on their destroyed infrastructure, they will look at each other and celebrate. Someone will stand up as a leader, and they will look to him as the person who sent America out of the Muslim country, and decide to join him. To fight and die for that persons belief. That’s how bin Laden started….
So anyways…Buddy Lee! You’re awesome and I’m pumped to learn! And this is another reason why crossfit is amazing. You don’t get this kind of knowledge out of a 3 dollar fitness magazine.
1. Terrorism is still being treated as a common crime to be handled by the cops and the courts. - See Michael Schurer's book Why the West is Losing the War on Terror.
2. The seeds of democratization were not planted and will not be taking root. Democracy is America's least popular export as will be proven in the future . - Once again please reference Schurer's book
3. The problem is not Islamofascism per say but the impact that the United States policies are having on Muslims and how Muslims view us. Bin Laden has stated this over and over again.
4. Bin Laden's greatest victory thus far was getting us to invade a Muslim country such as Iraq. This is just the proof he was looking for to gather all Muslims to him.
"once beutiful country and culture."
Oh, you starry-eyed dreamer. I believe this falls into the camp of what Phyllis Chesler called "Third World romanticism that infected so many American radicals" (http://www.meforum.org/article/794). I can tell you for a fact, Iraq sucks. Everything about it. Even the dirt. This is a land of savages, where savagery has been commonplace for a long, long time. Don't delude yourself, you don't have to kill Americans or blow up car bombs in Marketplaces, or mass murder police recruits to "protect your family". You don't have to set up checkpoint and go to work on members of the other sect with an electric drill for the purpose of self-defense.
People like Universatile will tell you "just simply stop sticking our noses in their affairs, namely their oil affairs." ... and everyone will get along and hold hands. That is feeble logic. Islamofacism is currently waging war in Sudan, Somalia, Thailand, Russia, India, Bali, Europe, the Phillipines, and practically everywhere Islam exists. Did all these other counties "stick their noses in their affairs"? No they didn't. Maybe you should read up on the Barbary Wars on Wikipedia. I would be interested on your analysis of the Foreign Policies of both sides. I believe it was the Ambassador to Tripoli who cited the Koran as the legitmate authority that gave them the right to capture/kill the merchant sailors and make slaves of them, unless ransom/tribute was paid.
As much as I try to make a purely logic-based argument and welcome debate, I'm sure we will be able to summon enough white guilt for people to revert to their default status - offended, yet not be able to construct any valid arguments. It magically happens almost every rest day.
p.s. #37 Gabriel got it right on the money. The author isn't saying Iraq attacked us. It is a common tactic of the Modern liberal to intentionally misunderstand statements like these so they can construct their straw-man & go to town. Without speaking for the author, you can think of Saddam writing checks to the families of suicide bombers as a secular state supporting Islamic terror in parallel with religious states.
Hope Buddy does a video on how to do double unders!
When will we be able to see a contribution in the CF journal from Buddy? I'll be looking forward to it.
That Buddy Lee is cooler than cool.
Oh, oh. I just start to learn the double under and Buddy Lee comes along and soon the standard jumprope move will be the double twisting triple under. Classic.
WTF, imagine being the best athlete out of all the marines. I'd be happy with being the best athlete in my gym!
And 10 time wrestling medalist, I hope you're taking notes Mr Angle.
"I wrote World War IV because I thought that there was an unfulfilled need to set 9/11, the battles that followed it in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the war of ideas it has provoked at home into a broad historical context."
An island of clarity in a sea of prevarication. Unfortunate that this "broad historical context" contains only few and self-supporting observations.
"Bin Laden had in fact been sponsoring anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan, and sought to attract them into his Islamic army." -The 9/11 Commission Report
"The following things have gone right in Iraq: It has been liberated from a monstrous tyrant whose regime was the main secular face of the two-headed monster by which we were attacked six years ago"-Podhoretz
Only one of the above can be true.
I skipped lunch during a Perform Better seminar a few years ago to witness some of the most amazing things being performed with a jump rope by none other than Buddy Lee. His world class caliber of rope skipping added to the Crossfit family takes it all to the next level. He is to jump rope what Coach Burgener is to Oly lifting.
This is great!! We just placed an order for Buddy Lee ropes last week. :) Can't wait until they arrive!!
Buddy Lee put on a fantastic two-hour seminar on jumping rope. If you think you're jumping rope correctly now, just wait until CF & Buddy put out more info. Stand by for some awesome jump rope WODs!
Saddham would not have been there if we hadn't elevated him to power in the first place.
or in other words: "We know Saddham was WMD because we have the receipts to prove it."
I find Podhoretz a bit...nostalgic... for the glory days of WWII. This is not a war of armies, but a war of elites. The real dyed in the wool Islamofascists number in the thousands at most. Unfortunately the number of innocent civilians (both Iraq and those lost on 9-11 in the US) number in the 100,000s, not to mention the loss of our brave, young soldiers.
We should forget conventional warfare and fly in elite kill squads to take out the leaders, the planners, the technicians and the financers of the Islamofascist movement. But that wouldn't give us access to the oil nor be able to dominate those countries, does it? Perhaps we did this at one point until the trail started ending up too close to home.
Wether by intention or unconscious omission, Podhoretz fails to include the war profiteering corporations that drive the War Machine forward in his "broad historical" analysis of events.
Podhoretz claims to give a historical perspective, but his failure to remember Saddham's CIA-backing reveals him to be more a toady-propagandaist than authentic historian.
In a nutshell, he is an academic waiting for the winners to win so he can get a job re-writing history for them.
Did his jump rope actually change direction without changing direction during his breakdown?
Did our backing of the Soviets against the Germans during WWII make us responsible for the barbarity of Soviet communism?
Can't historical context justify alliances? You apparently think not.
Did the real number of "dyed in the wool" Nazis number in the thousands at most? How about the "real number" of communists? How many people in control of a culture/country exporting a homegrown hell are required to make that country/culture an enemy?
Might Podhoretz not have mentioned the "war profiteering corporations that drive the War Machine forward" because this is a fantasy construct of the left invisible to the rest of us?
Even as most of my leanings, as you know, are just a little to the left of Che, I will concur. To determine that historical context is somehow removed is hollow.
Frankly it takes but one sh*theel in the drivers seat to constitute an 'enemy'.
Off topic? Maybe... but it would never have crossed my mind that six years down the road we would still have no control what so ever over our borders, our imigration policy (what policy?) or any viable execution in order for either.
ps: Buddy Lee's mini seminar at Quantico this past weekend was jaw dropping. A force to be reckoned with, for certain.
Aaaaaahh, so that's how long the rope should be. great video. Definitely an unknown-unknown for me.
I do not follow your logic that only one of the following is true. They do not relate in the context that you are using them in, but then again maybe you can explain why "only one must be true."
"Bin Laden had in fact been sponsoring anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan, and sought to attract them into his Islamic army." -The 9/11 Commission Report
"The following things have gone right in Iraq: It has been liberated from a monstrous tyrant whose regime was the main secular face of the two-headed monster by which we were attacked six years ago"-Podhoretz
That reminds me...I have to stop letting the knuckleheads use my Buddy Lee jump rope. They don't show it the proper respect! Best Rope Ever!
If you read the 9/11 comission report carefully, then you also would have noticed the numerous times that Iraqi intelligence and Al Qaeda met during the 90's in attempts to coordinate policy. We will never know the full extent of their cooperation, and I don't think that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 specifically, but their is no doubt that the relationship was more complicated that just the fact that Osama funded anti-Saddam insurgent groups. We also will never know whether Saddam would have reached out a hand to Al Qaeda again after the terrorist group lost its sanctuary in Afghanistan and offered them a place to stay, or perhaps kickstarted his WMD program which he had left dormant but still capable of production.
The three things that we most want to prevent terrorist groups from having are sanctuaries, state sponsorship, and access to WMD's. Saddam had a history of supporting terrorism against Israel, sent his intelligence officers to offer Al Qaeda a sanctuary, and had the capability to produce WMD's in addition to the a clear history of his willingness to use them, not mention the fact that he murdered 100,000's of his own citizens.
InfidelSix's post captures longstanding western prejudice regarding the east:
"I can tell you for a fact, Iraq sucks. Everything about it. Even the dirt. This is a land of savages, where savagery has been commonplace for a long, long time."
Would you want someone who thought that way about you teling you how to run your country?
We don't want to tell them how to run their county, we just want them to run it.
I don't see how I6 is being prejudice. It does suck compared to amber waves of grain (which I don't eat anymore but that is beside the point).
TomR - go to San Fran sometime. There are people there that hate me because I wear the uniform, think I am evil and think I am lower then dirt, and they want to tell me how to run my country. It exists everywhere, yes even in the good old US of A.
Podhoretz is correct to say G W Bush misnamed the war and misnamed the enemy. Podhoretz overlooks, though, that Bush also erred to seek redundant permission to use force against Iraq. He further overlooks that Bush used warrantless surveillance without invoking Section 1802 of FISA, which expressly permits such operations, and denies jurisdiction to the FISA courts over them. (This is due to Alberto Gonzales' incompetence, and is a PR bust.) These errors were fuel for the left to Vietnamize the War on Terror. It will be complete when Congress precipitously ends funding. We're not going to lose on the battlefield. Bush sewed the seeds of our defeat.
Podhoretz is also guilty of misnaming the enemy when he says,
“[Iraq] has been liberated from a monstrous tyrant whose regime was the main secular face of the two-headed monster by which we were attacked six years ago. (The Taliban regime in Afghanistan was the main religious face.)”
We were attacked by a faction of a surrogate army sponsored by a coalition of Islamic states. The leader of the attack was bin Laden, a Saudi exile under the fragile protection of the Taliban sharia rulers of Afghanistan. The soldiers comprised 15 Saudis, 2 UARs, 1 Egyptian, and 1 Lebanese. These were not known to be Taliban trained, but for the most likely a product of the Wahabi sect, supported by and a de facto arm of the Saudi government. The rest of the surrogate army includes Hezbollah, Hamas, and a couple dozen more rag tag organizations.
We entered Iraq with a target of Saddam and his deck of henchmen. We got most of them, and scattered his army to the wind. So far so good. Then we sat at idle while Saddam wannabes rose up, formed militia, turned mosques into armories, all with impunity and under the protection of sanctuaries. Bush failed, and continues to fail, to name the enemies and take them out. When Petraeus's surge is spent, the leaders he leaves behind will rise again.
The model for success in Iraq is not to glassify it, but to do to the al Sadr's what we did to Saddam. The Imams should be at special risk. All militia and their leadership should be drafted into an Iraqi security force, to be fully identified, and literally unmasked. Those not submitting should be killed. Mosques should be inspected, and if they contain weapons, they should be leveled. Weapon suppliers and manufacturers, especially in Syria and Iran, should suffer a similar fate. As the enemy is a surrogate, it is a borderless war. No sanctuaries - territorial or religious.
Calling Iraqis "savages" isn't prejudice?
I believe I'm allowed to tell you how I want to run "your" country. And you're free to tell me you disagree.
If I go to San Fran, I'll be sure to wear some flowers in my hair.
I wanted to break 20min, pull-ups got me
3 miles in 20:15. Days off are for hippies who think Iraq had no WMD's or link to 9/11. We all know the Russians smuggled out Saddam's nukes. Didn't you listen to Rush Limbaugh that day?
Wow, it's amazing to see Buddy Lee and Hannah jumping rope.
They are both so smooth and fluid, unlike my herky-jerky style of jumping rope.
I've got even more skills to work on...
Great to see Buddy Lee, a fellow Richmonder, joining the CF family.
Man yesterdays WOD. I haven't felt a burn in my lats, glutes, and abs like this in years. Awesome!!
Great video on Buddy Lee. I've always had a desire to learn how to jump rope but I haven't been able to completely overcome the mindset from growing up in the sixties that rope jumping is a girlie activity. Intellectually I know that it's not, but culturally, I guess I haven't progressed much. CrossFit's embrace of it should help. I promise to jump rope no matter how much I can imagine that the guys from the sixties are laughing at me.
I'm not as well-versed on the political aspects of the Iraq war as it seems a lot of people are who make comments on this site. That being said, I don't remember ever having seen or heard that there is conclusive evidence that Saddam was supporting Bin Laden. I mean evidence that would hold up in a U.S. court of law, not some pundit's or politician's statements. As a dictator, Saddam would have considered a strong and well-liked leader like Bin Laden a threat to his rule and power. It just doesn't follow that Saddam would let Al Quaida operate in Iraq. I agree with most of Podhoretz's writing but I have never understood the justification for invading Iraq. Afghanistan yes, wholeheartedly, but Iraq?
Has something about the way certifications are done now changed?
It seems like the levels have now been separated and the name changed to "level _ seminar" instead of "certification". Is it the same Kool-Aid with a new package?
No pull up bar had to use a square beam, slowed me down some.
Did my first WOD in like six months today. Picked Angie because I don't have weights. Had to stop at 50 pullups because my hands looked like they'd been fileted by a drunken sushi chef. Which brings me to my question: How does one do 100 kipping pullups in a row without the side effect of all their calluses being ripped off? Is taping an acceptable solution, or do you just keep at it until you have thick enough calluses and good enough technique that it's not a problem anymore?
Oh well, Angie minus 50 pullups, 31:30
Jeff Glassman- You are right on about al Sadr. How many times are we going to put down uprisings from the MM before we finally admit he is an enemy. Remember late 2004? He was walled up in his mosque in Najaf while his henchmen terrorized the city. One bomb and we would have been done with him forever, but, because you can't bomb a mosque, look what he has become.
TomR - AngryG and I6 are definitely right that Iraq sucks. Everywhere I have ever been save Iraq has had something good about it. Iraq has heat that you can't fathom, hard pack dust and a plethora of scents from human excrement (they don't even bother to bury it) to rotting corpses. The people there are friendly and are eager to make chai for you if you'll accept but if you turn your back on them, they will sell you out to someone they know will lop your head off and drag your body through the streets (they believe that the damage they inflict on your body will go with you to the afterlife). But its equal opportunity, they will also sell those guys out to you if you have money or favors to give them. What is your definition of savage?
Sqdn PT 3 mile run untimed (felt like high 6s/low 7s for pace) finish with OHS (up to 85lbs) and snatch balance with bar. Half hour of spinning tonight plus stretching.
TomR - Americans are savages to them. It is all about perspective and opinion.
How would it change much if he said "the American-hating Islamic Fascists"?
Wear all the flowers you want, it doesn't hide motive. Stop trying to blur what the real discussion is about because of simple rhetoric.
And you aren't allowed to tell me anything. You do it because you are free to do so; because it is one of your rights as a human being. Big difference. You have the inherent right to do so, being allowed means something or someone has given you the privilege. The Constitution may have written in it that free speech is your right - but it is only pointing it out, it is saying so because that document ensures that someone can be held accountable if they deny you your right. And even then your right of free speech is held accountable if you are denying the right of another.
Work calls, I'll check this out later.
Islamofaschists are very different from communists and Nazis.
War profiteering a fantasy? Okay...hmmmnnn...maybe Haliburton didn't get a generous no bid contract...
Can anybody answer this question. I have been weight training for several years and just recently got into crossfit. I am enjoying crossfit and have gotten much stronger in certain areas, core, pullups, ect. However, I have noticed that crossfit never really does much for a chest workout other than push ups every couple weeks. Is there a reason that the bench press is not incoporated into the workouts? Crossfit does the other powerlifts, deadlifts, squats, olypmic lifts. Thanks.
Iraq only sucks if you let it...
I did think it wrong to call all Iraqi's savages and have been savages for a long time...inexcusable sorry.
Also why is it "white" guilt, America isn't all white ya know.
You'll find in time that your worries over "chest" workouts will diminish. CF does incorporate the Bench Press (BP) BTW. There are in fact two named WODs with BP included:
Linda (which is a benchmark workout) and Lynne (which is just plain fun...) check out the FAQ page for descriptions of those ladies.
If you're working the CF warmup, you also should be hitting your chest quite a bit as well...push-ups are nice, dips are nice, muscle-ups...
I also think of CF as an open source model as well, if you like/want/desire to hit your chest up, go for it. i.e. Instead of placing your hands in line with your chest on your push-ups place your hands in line with your abdomen. Try cranking out 3 sets of 20 of those and your chest will let you know what's up. Work planche's too, or work on your legit one-armed push-up (search in the message boards for a great post on those progressions).
#88 if you are doing all the movements correctly you will start to see that so many of them use every muscle in your body..... Chest included.
I have seen some bench press come up like in three bars of death, and if you want more throw some in!
As for Buddy Lee and Hannah, after seeing them this past weekend at the cert. i can say there skill is amazing. Welcome to CF hope to see you both again soon!
To the comment about the left "Vietnamizing" this war because of supposed administration faltering, that's nonsense. The left Vietnamized Afghanistan in the first two weeks - does nobody else remember this? OH NO! Mazar-e-sharif is the new Tet! Somebody ought to remind them that we actually earned a decisive military victory at Tet, but that's another story.
The bottom line is, the left likes to surrender because it fulfills their desire to see the world in terms "so complex as to be impossible to understand", and it assuages their guilt complex.
Hello, I like crossfit a lot, but your political comments...
The people of USA really believe that? crazy terrorist whit knives did that? The twin towers fall because the plane crash?
Bin Laden is a CIA agent, the atrocity of 911 was a inside job.
Please, for the good of democracy, use your magic muscle and think. Stop watching CNN.
PD: Yes, me english is bad
"How would it change much if he said 'the American-hating Islamic Fascists'?"
That would change a lot, I think, assuming the term wasn't applied indiscriminately to all Iraqis or all Muslims, but rather only to those individuals for whom it was an accurate statement. Calling any group "savage" based on ethnic identity, religious affiliation, race, or the like is textbook prejudice.
"Stop trying to blur what the real discussion is about because of simple rhetoric." I'm not sure I know what you mean by this. But if you are saying that my discussion of "prejudice" regarding Iraqis is an attempt to distract us from the true issue, I disagree. The West has been trying to impose its ways on the East (far and near) for almost 1000 years. Our invasion of Iraq and imposition of democracy is the latest chapter in this long, tear-filled, blood-soaked saga.
For the last 100 years, the prize in the Near East has been oil. One wag suggested that originally the President was going to give the war the code name Operation Iraq Liberation, but someone then spelled out the acronym for him: OIL. We tend to be focused on the religious overtones of the conflict, but were there no oil, there would be no fight.
You're right that my use of the term "allow" was a poor choice.
No kidding! People who feel guilty for causing death and suffering to many lives, a great fraction of them innocent, are totally lame!
Just curious, but why the recommendation by Buddy not to jump rope on concrete? Does it have to do with undue pounding on the legs, tears up the rope, etc? I noticed they are jumping on concrete in the picture. I guess it's to be avoided if possible, but just interested in his reasonings why?
Absolutely correct. Too bad there is no oil in Sudan, because those people need our help a lot more than Iraqi's did pre-invasion.
Thought we'd continue the pain up here in North East England.
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Quayside Area.
Venue: One nasty set of stairs 7.5 flights x 12 steps each.
Sufferers: Myself and Kempie (CFnortheastengland)
Warm Up with 3 runs up and down relay fashion.
5 reps Power Cleans of a 66lb sandbag, shoulder or rack the bag, carry it halfway up the stairs where a KB is waiting, 5 snatchs each side, shoulder/rack sand bag and continue to the top of the steps, do 5 burpees and shoulder/rack bag again, return to KB, snatches again, shoulder bag and return to bottom. Two rounds of this.
2. Run flight set 5 squats, run next flight set 5 push ups. Repeat this sequence until two full sets of stairs have been completed.
3. Using bottom 3 flights of stairs. run flight of stairs 10 full KB swings, run next flight 10 bar jumps side to side (parkour ish)over the bannister, run next flight 5 KB snatches each side, return to bottom of stairs. 3 rounds through relay fashion.
4. "Piggy Back" Carry your partner to top of the stairs or as far as possible with punishment drills corresponding to distance from top at failure. Fortunately we both completed this entirely first time through!
left footed hops to half way point
right footed hops to halfway point.
Power two foot jumps to halfway, least number of jumps wins. Drew at 10 bounds.
After that we called it a day and are preparing for being unable to walk tomorrow.
'The pain is temporary' (and maybe yet to come after this)
Details of this will be posted on www.crossfitnortheastengland.com shortly once Kempie has resolved some technical problems., it is a good one for anyone with access to KB and a badass set of stairs local to them. Or feel free to email me if you require more stuff like this.
100m free, 100m free kick w/fins
100m fly w/fins, 100m fly kick w/ fins
100m free, 100 free kick w/ fins
100m back, 100 back kick w/ fins
100m free, 100m free kick w/ fins
100m breast, 100m breast kick w/fins
The more I read about Iraq, including the recent Petraeus report, the more I realize we can't just arbitrarily withdraw. Unless of course we are just delaying the inevitable, which I hope is not the case.
However, I think the best course of action would be to heavily engage the U.N. While they don't have the greatest track record of nation-building, it's far better than ours, and they have a history of it. Could Iraq work like Kosovo?
I would rather see a Belgian blow up from an IED than another American, adding to the losses we already have.
The Iraqis want us murderers/infidels to leave for sure, but (hushed voice) not yet. The divided government, split country, and sectarian violence is no good. The Sunnis fear that if the Americans leave, they will be wiped out.
I am going to stray from the topic of conversation of today and bring something that has been bothering me of late and maybe some of you will read and enlighten me and most of you probably won't.
ON TO MY SOAP BOX:
As of lately, and I can't give accurate statistics and figures, but it seems many people are scaling or changing the rx'd WOD's in such a way that it appears that they are putting up awesome times. I for one would love to be in the top 1% of times posted by the animals that are on here. But the only way I will feel good about posting a time in that 1% is if I do the legitimate rx'd WOD. There was a posting yesterday where the gentleman appeared to be slamming through the work out and then scaled the weight to 135, cut the pull ups and still posted a sub 20 min time. Why the urge to cut the WOD so you can post a better time? I look at it as a greater challenge to finish the rx'd WOD, have an accurate time and get better for the next one.
For the people that are beginning or are just not strong enough to do the weights or reps, I completely understand and agree with the scaling of the WOD. If you are injured or pressed for time, sure. But alterations in order to post a time that is no where near representative of what you can truly accomplish or are willing to work for is cheapening this great gift and opportunity that has been bestowed upon us.
My 2 two cents, comment as you like or completely disregard.
I for one will continue through the pain and suffering of as many work outs that I am able to do and when. My times are slower because I prefer strict pull ups, don't have access to rings or ropes, but I push until I am about to fall over, pop or pass out.
As for the discussion of the day, not sure what has been mentioned or hasn't in the past, I recommend that those truly interested in understanding what we are facing read up on Salafism, Wahhabism and Sayyid Qutb. Sun Tzu would be very disappointed at how little we have learned about what we face and how much we have relied on superior technology.
Alicia (Comment 51):
I'm pretty sure you will have no trouble with double-unders if you master the single jump. It sounds like a low-friction rope will also help, making it a new occupant of my shopping list.
Andrew H. Meador #91 said,
"To the comment [#71] about the left 'Vietnamizing' this war because of supposed administration faltering, that's nonsense."
What is nonsense is the criticism. Comment #71 actually said,
"These errors were fuel for the left to Vietnamize the War on Terror."
Fuel for, not cause of or reason for.
"The bottom line is, the left likes to surrender because it fulfills their desire to see the world in terms 'so complex as to be impossible to understand', and it assuages their guilt complex."
is also problematic. The left does indeed argue repeatedly that straightforward solutions are simplistic. In fact, they have trotted out that old saw to criticize Petraeus's 9/11 testimony. But the left is impervious to guilt. They suffer from error, but never guilt.
The left, born out of Liberal Arts, suffers from elaborate theories. Welfare doesn't work because we don't spend enough. Collectivism works, capitalism doesn't. The Great Convergence Theorem: the West is becoming more socialistic and the Communists more and more democratic, we will converge in a great democratic-socialism, and we must do nothing that could interfere with this process. The Palestinians can be mollified by giving them their own State.
The latest left wing fuzzy-headed theory is the settling of the Iraqi crisis through Reconciliation. The failure to take out the al Sadrs is quite likely based on his holiness from Bush's standpoint, but to the left, it would create a vacuum in the Reconciliation process.
If the left, say Hillary, were in power, the war on terror would most likely progress apace. Kennedy and Johnson escalated their no-win war in Vietnam. Nixon did, too, but ultimately surrendered. Once elected, the left has no reason to end any justifiable war. The Democrat presidential candidates are already backing away their Congressional leadership and their balmy blogs. The Party may just split in two.
The left today is single-mindly against George W. Bush, and is determined to make anything his administration does, good or bad, fail. The left is willing to cause failure at any cost, including Amertican lives, United States defeat, or Jihadist success and a far more serious Middle East crisis. It's all about power for the left.
It is madness.
I missed out on Filthy Fifty last Thursday, so I made it up today. I subbed tuck jumps for double-unders and ended up with a time of 31:53. All in all I was pretty happy, though halfway through the box jumps I came up short and took a chunk out of my left shin (tuck jumps with a hurt shin = NOT FUN!). I won't be able to move in the morning, but that's OK. I won another valiant battle against Pukie.
As I scrolled through yesterday's comments this morning, I realized that I had failed to say anything about 9/11. I was aware of it, but my posts weren't in keeping with the solemnity of the day and I'm slightly embarrassed. It's not that I forgot 9/11, but I wish I could. I live in one of the NJ towns most severely affected by the attacks. A good friend and client didn't come home. I used to call him frequently and was on speaking terms with many people on his staff. All gone. I remember calling his cell phone on 9/12 in the hope that he'd been travelling that awful Tuesday. His cell phone, still working in the smoldering ruins, picked up and I heard his voice. I'm still haunted by that memory. Neighbors died and the church on the corner had 3 funerals a day for several days running. And then there are people I casually knew like the guy I used to see at the Y. He was a knowledgeable baseball fan and we'd discuss the finer points of this game or that. He, too, was taken. I know my experience is far from unique; there are thousands of rememberances like mine, but this morning I felt the need to share my memories with you all, my friends. But it's not all sadness and tears, 9/11 changed me deeply. I returned to church, and my political views changed as well. Most of all, I have a deep respect, almost a reverence for the men and women who do the tough work, our soldiers, police and firefighters. I'll do anything I can to help you, with my wallet, my vote and my time. Anything. The 9/11 attacks have made me a better person and citizen, and I believe they have made the US a better country, and in this spirit we can fully honor the memory of all those who perished that day. Thanks for listening.
26 yom 6'2" 155#
Great video, great tips and entertaining as always with the CFIT videos.
185# DL x 21
27:14 This annihilated my forearms
I bought the BL Cross Trainer rope for my sister and she says it absolutely rocks. She's not into doing tricks though, but it's fast enough for fitness apps (double unders, etc).
#101 and #108...
Nothing wrong with scaling as long as you admit it. You have a point, though it is more that just posting the time, you have to ADMIT in the mirror that you scaled it or did not do it. If you can live with that, then so be it.
Yesterday, I scaled back the # of Pull-ups to 3X30 instead of 3X50 since they have softened up due to no kipping for over a month. No need to tear meat off right before a couple of weeks of shooting.
Scale to be productive in the short/long run, not to get a better score or out of fear.
i wholeheartedly agree with both your observation and your general philosophy on completing the WOD. when i'm looking through posted times after completing my own WOD, i'm often momentarily depressed about how slow my times are compared to seemingly everyone else... and then i see it -- 'subbed jumping PUs,' 'subbed 135 on DLs,' etc.
i've been CFing for about 8 weeks now, and i have only subbed a few times. so far i have subbed linda's DLs to 225 as opposed to the rx'd 275, bar dips for ring dips, and up until a few days ago i simply couldn't do double unders, so i've been doing 3x single unders. i too have decided to only sub when i literally cannot complete the exercise as rx'd.
it is worth noting that when linda comes up next, i WILL do her as rx'd, and i can now do double unders well enough to go for it. i attribute these (and other) gains in performance to both the CF methodology and pushing myself as hard as possible to complete WODs as rx'd, even if that means slow times for a few months.
so be happy with your times - i now a sense of pride for writing 'rx'd'
and to those who are in fact implementing multiple substitutions - make sure you know exactly why you are making a substitution, and don't rob yourself of an even more demanding workout if it's not absolutely necessary. it's a personal decision, of course, but it's often easy for most of us to fall short of our potential. the result of doing so may be a less rewarding experience.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Nation Review and its various satellite authors don't have a very impressive record for describing this war and predicting how it will go.
I realize that the pinkos in the crowd are not used to being challenged on their beliefs/lies and assertions, but you are out matched. You will have to back up your assertions.
-Capitalism has failed? Really, where?
-We were told Saddam was responsible for 9/11? Really, when and by who?
-You have a right to vandalize private property, in retaliation for pollution? really, where is that a law?
You have NOTIONS of what IS, but no proof to draw from.
Your assertions that someone needs to do something about 'that' reeks of elitism. Born out of the BS that the people need to rise up in solidarity to over-throw the man. Of course then people like you would then be the man. Unfortunately, no one wants to follow your belief system without coercion. Which of course is what you rail against about the current system. So really it is just that you want things your way, regardless of how ineffective it is. Living in your parent's basement sucks, so we need to change the system so you can finally move out. Which means essentially we need to pay for it. Why don't you just ask for donations, like the numb-nuts who want socialized medicine should do.
So we have determined you are not that smart or you would not need to live with your parents or want to socialize everything. Therefore, if you are not that smart, why should we listen to you.
You are not in military or have a background that allows you to have an understanding of what is going on the world or allows you to think through strategy and effect, so your opinions on these matters are shaped from you experience of playing Worlds of War-Craft in your parent's basement on the internet. Perhaps, your advice is best kept to yourself until you have grown up a little and take down the Che flag. A job would be a start.
Seriously, the adults are talking and your dribble , which is a lightly veiled mix of Communist and Anarchist ideals, distracts from legitimate discussion.
When you have an ounce of life experience to mix with your bright ideas, try again.
I find it amazing that we never get any older pinkos on here, only the young ones.
John, Awesome post. It's powerful to hear your story of those who were murdered. In those days I felt like on the one hand I had the rare opportunity; I had trained people who were running the deck of the ENTERPRISE (walked off the deck for the next assignment days before their 2001 deployment) and who would end up kicking things off over there; and I was in training to report to a squadron a few months prior to a CENTCOM deployment. On the other hand, I did what I could then but it never felt like enough, given the hit the US took.
On the whole, now, I think the US gave more than she got.
Joey - great point up at #13, spot on as usual.
I like Pod's perspective on all of this. I'm also amused as always by those who speak as if there was some way to divorce America from the Middle East - as if by our ceasing to buy oil from them, it would have some effect on oil markets. It's hard not to believe that all the socialists in charge of public education are deliberately failing to teach market economics. It pains me to think that folks as smart as Universatile can't figure it out on their own (but there's always time to learn).
Oil is an international market. Until the next energy revolution, the world's going to buy/consume middle eastern oil and we could only stop that process by allowing the region to fall into chaos. If we were to allow or cause the end of middle eastern oil extraction/distribution, millions would die as the poor areas of the world revert back to less productive fuels.
The next energy revolution will change everything (and make oil increasingly irrelevant), just as steam did, just as internal combustion did, just as electricity did - "when" being the question of interest.
Until then, the best option is trying to sow the seeds of modernization and liberty in that region. That, and killing those who would kill us.
Democracy, of course, is not a requirement for liberty, as our Republic and many other examples prove. I think we over-rate the importance of democracy (ignorance or intellectual laziness?). What is of greater significance is economic and personal liberty.
Did yesterday's 50pull/21DL x3 as rx'd (gotta learn to kip though)
first DL was 21
then 10/6/5 for the last two
#101 and others....
Is there any benefit to scaling back the workouts to decrease the time the WOD takes, thus enable more intensity. The real studs of Crossfit (OPT, Speal) post incredible times where most WOD take less then 10min. They are almost entirely anaerobic/ using phosphogen/glycolytic pathways. Some of us are taking around 20minutes, thus using all 3 pathways, finally some take a long time and most of the WOD is in fact all aerobic. Which is best? What gives you the best results?
I think it is like running. What is a better workout? Run 3miles, however long it takes, or run as hard as you can for 20min? Most people will make better gains (increasing VO2max, lose bodyfat) going for maximal intensity vs. just distance.
I am very interested in others point of view. Thanks.
#96 universitile - there is oil in Sudan, in fact China is investing heavily in the Sudanese oil industry which is one of the reasons they were dragging their feet so much in the UN and otherwise. I totally agree that the Sudan would have been a much better candidate for intervention than Iraq, but at this point our military is so stretched it's a moot point.
All you guys go ahead and share your opinions on whatever...As for me, on rest days, I work out anyway. Today:
OHS Practice: 65lbs x 15reps, 75lbs x 2 x 15reps, 85lbs x 3 x 15reps.
Box Jumps: 15 reps(24") with 3lbs ankle weight on each foot. 4 x 15 reps(3lbs ankle weights, 30"), 15 reps 36"(no weights).
Ring dips: 4 x 5 reps (holy sh#% that's though!)
60 reg dips
your point is taken, but it raised a few questions/thoughts as well. first, i think the variety of WODs provided by coach allows for work in all three pathways. some are designed to be shorter, others longer.
regarding the incredible times usually being sub-10 min, i can only say that while i am impressed by fran and helen times, i am even more blown away by a blistering murph or linda time. after all, don't these WODS require the same intensity over an extended time?
i guess my question, then, comes down to whether or not athletes like speal, OPT, and all other such CF monsters got where they are by one method or the other. in other words, did they scale significantly when beginning some of the more taxing WODs (allowing, perhaps, as you suggest, for more intensity), or did they go rx'd and balls-out? how would they approach a 21-15-9 WOD requiring DLs at a weight with which they could not execute each set without breaks? would they scale?
definately interested in responses from any of the CF beasts.
BTW - that vid was awesome. I have two of Buddy's ropes and a DVD but that clip showed me what I had missed - how to introduce skipping to my kids!
Double unders became significantly easier for me after getting one of his ropes.
Welcome aboard Buddy!
Sorry if already addressed, but where can we get a good rope?
Relatively new crossfitter question:
I'm not able to do 50 pull ups so I broke the wod down into a nonstop 4 pu/2 dl till I finished with 150 pu/75 dl final.
Is that not as beneficial for me as doing the 3 sets? I was able to do full range of motion pu's & dl's all the way through.
Should I have done it the other way and not been able to all rx'd pu & dl?
Thanks for your help!
So very, very predictable. Let me quote myself:
As much as I try to make a purely logic-based argument and welcome debate, I'm sure we will be able to summon enough white guilt for people to revert to their default status - offended, yet not be able to construct any valid arguments. It magically happens almost every rest day."
I must be the new Prophet b/c that's exactly what happened. No valid arguments, only hurt feelings over my assured prejudice. Offended, yes, that I would dare use the word "savage".
Of course you hear what you want to hear I guess. Nowhere did I say all Iraqis were savages. (There goes your strawman - sorry). What I said was
"This is a land of savages, where savagery has been commonplace for a long, long time." Meaning there is a preponderance of evil men and methods there. Imagine the movie Hostel, only for real, and much more common. It's not because of the color of their skin, or their smelly armpits, or even their religion, it's because of the evil acts they commit so easily.
Funny though how the problem is so easily boiled down to prejudice - this too is a hallmark of the left to believe that any judgement is fundamentally rooted in bigotry and whose avoidance is the source of multi-culturalism. They tell us that must embrace other cultures as equals, lest we be prejudiced, no matter how savage and backward they may be ... unless it involves dog fighting.
Agreed. Let's not understate the gravity of the situation. 'Savage' is a good descriptor for Iraq's current state.
back to the valid arguments. Is mosque-bombing the best way to stabilize the country? If we could "enlist" the Mahdi army, wouldn't we have already? How do we get more ground-up support? I mean, that's what seems to have turned the tables in Anbar, so how can that happen in Shia-dominated areas?
Why is a UN-handoff impossible/unreasonable?
#122 a-rob ever heard of an ad hominem attack?
Brett (aka the "honorable opposition!"),
There's a link to the buddy lee page on the home page, bottom right hand corner, under equipment.
I think a UN handoff is not reasonable because they can't and won't take it at this point.
Not sure what you mean about the mosque bombing - but the mosque bombers are AQ and their ilk. To the degree that he Coalition "bombs mosques," it is under the agreed upon ROE which is part of the UN security council's authorization for the US to be in Iraq; any Coalition force has authority for self defense, whether fired upon from a mosque or any other location. This was blessed by the GoI - granted, their choices were limited.
Agreed. It is disturbing how "peaceful" people misinterpret truths for bigotry or whatever. When left to making a moral choice in regards to prisoners they (Arabs) are savages (more than we will ever be). It is safe to make cultural comparisons when trying to describe the Arab culture. There are oustandingly good people there, however, when left with a choice to make, it is the worst that they usually take. They are a "survival at all cost" culture because of their natural environment. Desert environments have always bred the worst in humans. In the past they have treated their prisoners like animals to dehumanize them in order to justify not feeding them or giving them water. Then they just cut off their heads when finished with them. Go figure. The UN is unreasonable due to their lack of ability to keep peace. It is a corrupt organization with no clout (check out all of their operations in Africa, all failures Somalia being a case study example). To be multi-cultural is to understand how other cultures work, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to respect them. My likes and dislikes for Arabs change constantly depending on the circumstances. Their culture does not understand peace unless it is in religous terms (for the most part as there are exceptions) and on their own terms (and ours, ours is better). I don't give two poo's if democracy is good for them or not. The peaceniks wouldn't be so peaceful when someone is asking them to be Muslim or have their head cut off. American policy did not create Islamofascism, peaceniks and Islamofacists hellbent for power did. Don't rebuke my statements because I am not following up on this. Peace through war is a good answer most of the time (but not all of the time).
Perhaps I misinterpreted your statement. Perhaps, but I'm not convinced. Let's move on.
First, are you saying there is no prejudice underlying the attiudes of many in the West re the Mideast?
And as for so-called strawmen, don't you resort to them: ". . . this too is a hallmark of the left to believe that any judgement is fundamentally rooted in bigotry and whose avoidance is the source of multi-culturalism. They tell us that . . . . "
Ours is a multicultural society, isn't it?. Has that been imposed on us? Or has it emerged as a result of who we have become over time become? When given a choice, we tend to gather with others of our "tribe," but our nation is one of many tribes and lots of mongrels. I think of it as hybrid vigor.
cjonnyrun, in this WOD(50 pull-ups,21 DL, 3 rounds) you have to do 50 pull-ups before the 21 dl, broke in many sets as you need (10x5,5x10).
#126 Yes our culture is a muli-cultured society named America. We are all American and thats that. The laws here are supposed to protect your right to practice your cultural needs, however, in the end as a citizen you are bound by oath to be an American...nothing else. If you were born into this "terrible" culture then leave. No one is stopping anyone from leaving.
I pulled my darn back doing clean + jerks. This sucks. My technique sucks. I am out for at least a week. Not the first time this happened. I was going light that is the worst of it. 45lbs. How lame is that. I am going to just do du's from now on. I need to go to a cert or get a coach and learn this crap cause I am tired of being hurt.
Took my day off yesterday since it was my birthday so did the 3x50 pull ups and 3x21 185lb. deadlifts today.
As rx'd 20:12.
#101 Josh. I agree! Unless you are new to CF, have issues with the body, not have the adeq. equipment, one should attempt the WOD as rx'd.
I can remember not long ago, we had a WOD which required that we bench our body weight for I don't remember but it seemed a 1000 reps and run and do it over and over again. Our CF coach, Herr Lance was out of town, and I said to self, I will never finish this in an hour, so I went down on the weight. When Her Capitan Lance returned, I gave hime my time, he looked at me, with deep eyes, and asked the weight I used. At that very time with my responce, I got a 20 min talk about CF, its purpose, and never again have I allowed myself to cheat myself of total death!
I struggle with doing double unders one at a time and Buddy was doing crazy stuff with the rope!!
If you can't see the war machine, perhaps you can taste it. It's your bread and butter. Will your marketing strategy change if your balance sheet shows more dollars from mainstream pragmatic folk than from the choir?
Yesterday's WOD: 22:58. As rx'd. Prayed for a swift end by the third round of pullups. Grip smoked.
I can do single unders for a short while but seem to have have problems turning the wrists fast enough for double unders.
I can see the corporations that profit from the war, and I can see the "War Machine", I think. What I can't see is the "profiteering corporations" driving the "War Machine" forward. See the difference?
How might I divine which of our customers are "mainstream pragmatic folk" and which are "choir", and how might that affect the finances of CF, Inc?
Re: Buddy Lee
This is great, because when it comes to me and jump ropes, it's like the proverbial monkey and football.
Not for time, just to sweat.
11x Pull-up +
20x Push-up (on inverted BOSU) +
11x Pull-up +
40x Squat +
11x Pull-up +
20x Box Jump +
11x Pull-up +
40x Floor Wiper (one-count) @ 135# +
11x Pull-up +
20x Box Jump +
11x Pull-up +
40x Split Jump (one-count) +
11x Pull-up +
20x Burpee +
11x Pull-up +
40s KTE +
11x Pull-up +
One last Pull-up to reach 100 total
I don't know how anyone can 'divine' anything.
I don't like the notion of a "war machine" either. But I ask you, if you can see the machine, are you not curious about its maker, its caretaker, if you are so inclined: the ghost in that machine? And if there is no ghost, but simply an invisible hand, why does the invisible hand create a machine for war, and not a machine for something else?
The reason I don’t like using mechanistic metaphors to describe what has happened to the commercial and political cultural of the United States is that the cogs of a machine do not make choices. In the congress, in the senate, in the executive, in the state legislatures, in the Boards of Directors and in the general and preferred shareholder meetings, individuals do make choices. They choose from whom they will take or grant their favours. They are not all independent business persons like yourself, free from influence, ignorant (apparently) of the demographic origin of those who make them wealthy and able, in turn, to influence others. They are, many of them, 'second-handers', only too willing to be the errand-boys for the grocery clerks that make their fortunes off of the public purse.
The short answer to your first question is: campaign financing and government/corporate patronage appointments. Of course I make no distinctions between the members of the Republican and Democratic parties on the whole. What are these parties but the Redsox and the Yankees of civil society, their members making something less than a $150,000 an at-bat for whiffing on red or blue coloured lob-balls?.
As far as your second question goes, I will have a difficult time answering that from where I sit. Does that make the premise on which my own question was based groundless? How about you try a little experiment? If you think that the military, fire, police and other public-servant department contracts you have are totally unrelated to the overtly jingoistic, pro-American, unblinkinkly loyal tone of your website, why don’t you try posting a rest-day discussion article with an editorial point of view that presents an opposing view. One differing from the usual: “if I can’t fix it with a gun it ain’t my problem”, and the "cops and robbers" mentality that is invariably the message of your rest-day posts? Try it for a month. Try it every 6th day for a month. What will they say? Will they stay at home to do their pushups? Will they spend their money to pushups somewhere else?
It's a fairly loaded question. No, I would say everyone is prejudiced to some degree. North, South, East, and West. I really don't see how it's germain to the issue of what I was referring to (third world romanticism). I've been to a few nasty places and always found something good to say about them ... until Iraq. Like another poster, my summation of Iraq is that there is nothing good about that place. Nothing. YMMV.
Multicultural <> Multiculturalism. I was referring here to the Modern Liberal dogma. Multiculturalism leads to what we see in England right now and in France. Like Moral Relativism, it is rooted in "not judging" for lack of a better explanation. Evan Sayet explains it very well here. It's a bit long, but very enlightening.
It's probably too late now, but I just have to toss in that the minute I see someone use phrasology along the lines of "the left all uses this tactic" or "the right is all wrong because of that", the arguer loses me. anyone who is unwilling to recognize that is definitely the same person who will vote party lines and ignore an argument based entirely on the orginator.
now wasn't that annoying?
I've given thought to market forces on politics, for sure.
What I don't believe, and you seem to have swallowed whole, is the notion that our current leadership has been compelled or even incentivized to prosecute this war by market forces. This is, I think, telling in that many for whom it is a given that Bush, et. al., are motivated by financial interests wholly ignore the fact that critics of this war have been caught red-handed on the enemy's payroll. More importantly, I wonder why the Haliburton Blood for Oil conspiracy holds so much sway when a simpler and more facile model for gain would have Bush and friends similarly cutting deals with Saddam. It doesn't make sense. Not to me.
So, If I understand you correctly, you'd like to see me post a "Chicken Little" story on global warming, the following week maybe a "cops cause crime" piece, and continue with a "your money rightfully belongs to all of us" article and see if my demographic changes? You wonder how this might affect my bottom line, if I understand you correctly.
My guess is that I'd find myself heralded by men low in wit and courage, garner more favorable mainstream media coverage, and ultimately find it financially profitable. I think your "little experiment" is a formula by which I yield, at enormous personal cost, to the very forces you decry.
Prole, It ain't about the money. It is about the character. Take it or leave it.
Didn't look at the #'s and did the 21-15-9!!!
Doom on me.
Still had fun.
You should thank me for giving you the opportunity to call your , by inference, "men" who have wit and courage. Nowhere did I mention Bush, and when I mentioned Republicans did not distinguish them from Democrats. I don't like "market forces" for the same reason I don't like "war machine" - this is metaphorical language to mask the fact that policy decisions mean income for some and not for others. It also adds an element of inevitability were there are really just choices, influenced no doubt by aneconimc culture of chrony-capitalism.
You're still playing good guys and bad guys.
Chicken little? Cops cause crime? Do they? I'm sure some do. But I don't really care about your 'hero' and 'villan' stories. I would find an articling on 'cops causing crime' a little too narrowly focused. How about something hopefully better thought out than this WWIV piece)arguing that perhaps the US' actions in the gulf are immoral, or that American politics isn't simply a story of good v. evil. Or if you'd like to keep up the hero pieces, try the story of social worker who works 60 hours a week in two counties running around saving the children from terrible family situations, or an attorney and citizen's group who take a polluting company to court on their own dime to preserve the health of their entire community.
"F-That", you might say. Lawyers and social workers and community workers and teachers and volunteers don't need to kip to stand up to the powers that be, they just need moral courage to stand up to those would abuse their power. Not likely that a group of 30 social workers will sign a contract for cross-fit sessions. Not likely that single-mothers, new immigrants working two jobs and attempting to learn English will be busting through Fran any time soon, is it.
It's your website, do what you will with it. The men of wit and courage with whom you associate applaud your loyalty. But since it is your boat, you might try rocking it to see who jumps first.
coach, i am interested in knowing why both of my posts were deleted from the board...i understand the first one (#123) used an insult that may be inappropriate, but i am shocked that #145 was taken off...why you no like me?
I'm just so stoked to have discovered CrossFit training, and, to boot, your website and users seem to be among the fabric we need back in this country! Let's take the country back from these whackados who want us to roll over, pull out, and just be nice. Their lala land perspective rules out the reality of war, the real threat of radical Islam, and the guts to fight for freedom. let's take our country back!
For the real story of what's going on in Iraq, you have to read the blogs. Here's a good one about the transformation of Ramadi.
If you're interested on how we are shaping success in Iraq and why things are changing, note that GEN Patreaus is implementing a whole new strategy. It is proving effective IMO. GEN Patreaus co-authored the new Army FM on counter-insurgency (COIN) based largely off a book written by a French Colonel who fought in Algiers. Here is a great article from April that will give you some good insight.
good reading. Part of the problem is that we don't seem to "control the future"; the Mahdi Army seems to hold sway because they claim they'll be around long past when we leave.
The effects of the Surge are debatable. As pointed out in your first article, the changes in Ramadi and the Anbar province started 5 months beforehand in response to AQI massacring civilians. The battle is not won with a body count, but "increasing the number of stakeholders," winning over civilians. So do we really so many troops?
AQI represents 2-5% of the insurgency now. The majority lies in Shiite or mixed areas where they claim authority and provide "protection," issuing cards for who can enter and whatnot.
Absolute withdrawal doesn't seem like an option. Not so much because it will create a "terrorist breeding ground" as it will result in uneven, totalitarian regime (which may later result in Anbar-like revolution, but at what intermediate cost?) The problem is that it will take a lot of resources to control the future. We got ourselves in some shit. Could we not spread the resource demand until a significant number of stakeholders (Iraqi army, police, institutions) are in place?
Another point is that (from Petraeus) "some of the best weapons do not shoot." Creating a civil society where there is none will seriously compete against extremist violence. That's a reason why democracy works to certain extent in Kurdistan. There needs to be liberty and free elections. There's no liberty in the south, so democracy is a joke. The top-down reconciliation ain't gonna happen with arbitrary rulers.
Institution-building, promoting civil society, are there other groups better equipped to 'get in it' for the long haul than the US?
good reads, my post is caught in the filter.
The "not judging" deal by Sayet is a bit ridiculous though. There's obviously a difference between "discriminating" against terrorists vs. young French Muslims for example. One is justice and an ethical decision, the other is not cool.
His argument against universal healthcare, that the dollars don't add up, is an attack on an economic dogma that doesn't scrutinize reality. That the "invisible hand" is always correct is a similar dogma, however. Politicization seems to always breed such dogma, it's about who gets what.
Although I qualify my hopefully upcoming filtered post with this caveat:
Prolonged involvement in Iraq seems similar to Vietnam. However, in Vietnam, we came down on the side of the landlords against the peasants (politics aside). I don't think the "sides" in Iraq match up to Vietnam. The only thing that could be similar between the two is if our presence merely delays the inevitable. That would be the only case for immediate withdrawal.
It's weird because no matter the direction you spin Iraq, it can play out to either the Democrat or Republican stance.
Iraq's going sour
- we need to stay and fix it
- we need to get out while we can
Iraq's going well
- keep up the good work
- OK, so we can leave
I think something that we forget sometimes at our peril--and I'm guilty of this too--is that Arabs are not without a sense of honor. We see the worst of what is possible in Al Queda, but the fact of the matter is that Al Queda is not Islamic. They are very specifically prohibited from killing Muslims, I believe in the Koran, certainly in the Hadith. They skirt this fact by claiming those they kill were not "muslim", but this argument is increasingly earning them new enemies, and should be earning them--were the Islamic Ulema faithful to the tradition passed down to them from Mohammad the Prophet--resounding condemnation and fatwas.
Chivalry comes to us from the Islamic world, and many of the best of them are on par with the best of us. Where their tribes and families are concerned, they are every bit as brave and relentless as our cowboy heroes were. It takes balls to be a policeman in Iraq today. As many hits as we take, ordinary Iraqis take ten times that.
We need to remember stories like this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6960009.stm
And this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070913/wl_afp/iraqunrestanbarsheikh_070913131339;_ylt=AlUGQPHeBy5uJ3Ow6hh9BHgE1vAI
I don't know how any rational person familiar with the facts on the ground--or at least the fact availabe to those willing to dig--could in good conscience possibly argue that it is in the Iraqis interest for us to leave.
The best way to understand Al Queda in Iraq, in my view, is that they are Islamic Brownshirts, acting at the behest of foreign nationals, working to sow chaos which will work in the long run to their benefit. I guarantee they have one or more people more than happy to play a Hitler of sorts, but they can't increase their power within the "confines" of stability, and a functional police force and military. They just can't.
This is why they are working so feverishly to prevent any order from coagulating, and doing everything they can to make the situation look unwinnable and untenable to the more infantile and cowardly members of the American political scene.
An American style federalistic democracy is not going to take deep root in Iraq any time soon. This does not mean we should not make every effort to recognize and support those who want to live with honor and dignity. Who sincerely want what is best for Iraq, and are not bent on building a trans-national Arab Caliphate, which in its' vision structurally resembles nothing so much as a Communist Empire.
Have one in the hopper, but in the meantime, one other other comment.
This article is interesting: http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070910/BUSINESS/709100332/1003#storychat
There is no word in Arabic for entrepreneur. Moreover, it is my understanding that loaning money for interest is prohibited for Muslims.
It was also prohibited for Jews and Christians. Christians got around it when people still cared about things like that by making Jews the bankers, and Jews apparently got around it by making interest-free loans to members of their community. There was a word for it for American Jewry, but I forgot the word.
Prosperity has a tendency to ease social tension, especially one in which the opportunities to pursue wealth are reasonably open to everyone. For this reason, the apparent scarcity both of investment capital, and of those wanting or able to make use of it for business development in the Arab world, is problematic. There are plenty of foreign companies who build things in Arab countries, but Arabs don't tend to build any of their own "stuff": manufacturing plants, fast food franchises, etc, etc. The Arabs appear to make the French worthy of having a French word used in this context.
Another scarcity I have noted before is that of women. In order to get married, a man has to have a certain amount of money. Since money is unevenly distributed in Arab society, and since men are allowed four wives, this means the marriage chances of many Arab men are close to nil.
I have proposed before that some of these men may be particularly vulnerable to the seduction of 72 virgins. We may laugh, but they believe this, and they aren't getting any virgins any other way.
It is no doubt true that explosives will take a door off of its' hinges, but it should also be remembered that sometimes the door is unlocked.
The idea of the "cops and robbers" or "good vs. evil" mentality doesn't have to be tied to socialistic themes and environmental alarmism.
I do, however, think Crossfit would absolutely stand on its own, in terms of profits *and* its superiority as a system and community, regardless of the political message Coach relays on this site. It doesn't matter whether or not we are at war. We will always have the groups that make up, as Prole puts it, Coach's "bread and butter" (military, police, fire dept) and Crossfit will likely continue to evolve to meet the needs of those groups and individuals.
The idea of the "cops and robbers" or "good vs. evil" mentality doesn't have to be tied to socialistic themes and environmental alarmism.
I do, however, think Crossfit would absolutely stand on its own, in terms of profits and its superiority as a system and community, regardless of the political message Coach relays on this site. It doesn't matter whether or not we are at war. We will always have the groups that make up, as Prole puts it, Coach's "bread and butter" (military, police, fire dept) and Crossfit will likely continue to evolve to meet the needs of those groups and individuals.
Ben, glad you enjoyed the links. I fully agree that we don't control the future there. The Madhi Militia was only estimated at 10,000 strong at it peak and because there are so many disparate interests there - the tribe being the most important, even over that of sect, that no one group will control the future there.
The Anbar Awakening is very interesting. I (partially) agree that it didn't happen b/c of the surge, but I think it's a great illustration of the soundness of COIN theory as the lessons & critical are the same. I think 3 things happened here:
First was a sea change in perception - of U.S. troops, of AQ, and of their (Sunni) situation. It takes a while to break thru all the b.s. their fed about us. Eventually they realized that we're really not the kind of people they were told we were, and that AQ are inhuman, brutal hypocrites and offer them nothing but misery. They do see us as tough professionals, and without the suspicion they once held. And I think they realize that freedom, even limited, is desirable over the draconian rule of AQ. They finally figured out that eventually we'll leave and that they (Sunni) are a vast minority is a sea of Shia and w/ Sadr aligned w/ Iran ... very bad position for them. I'm dumbfounded that it took them so long to realize this. But AQ probably had them by the balls though fairly early on.
Second was that we affected & capitalized on the awakening via the COIN strategy. COIN & the Surge are not one in the same. GEN Petraeus took Command there in February and began to work with tribal leaders (as opposed to Bremer) well before surge troops arrived.
There is one other thing as well. We've been training IA & IP there for a long time & building up these forces. It's taken 3-4 years to get where they're at now & they continue to get better. This is a much bigger deal than people give credit. It's relations 101.
I'd say that the culmination of these 3 things are what allowed the Anbar Awakening to happen. In part it's a question of momentum meeting an opportune environment (where conditions are now recpetive). I doubt it could have succeeded without all these elements. AQ helped unwittingly to create that environment, but so did we, and we were able to capitalize on it.
Regarding "the Surge" in particular, I think it has been successful in that it really allows us to carry out the bigger mission (the key) of integrating into, running missions w/ & supporting the Iraqi forces that much better, and to integrate into the communities while not abandoning former security missions (Baghdad violence is way down). Units are always stretched thin & it always feels like you're shifting money from pocket to pocket - you catching up in one place and falling behind in another. Sadr has had to rein his guys in b/c they're way outnumbered & getting annihilated by combined IP/IA/US forces. Iran & rogue Sadr militia cells are now the new thorn in our side. Hopefully we can focus on them & tamp them down. We have so much momentum now that calls to abandon Iraq should now be seen clearly for what they are - disgusting political gamesmanship. Some people can not afford politically for us to succeed.
I think the reconciliation part is going to happen bottom-up. First tribal, then by village, city, etc. They want to protect their cities, and the article leads us to believe that community watch/policing is forming Iraq into medieval strongholds of some sort. Hey ... if it works. I don't know that there is any agency that can do this better than us. Hopefully more countries will get involved as Iraq stabilizes.
Just to clarify: The Surge successes are in Baghdad, Diyala, and some Eastern areas.
Not saying the surge had a big effect on Ramadi - only one Marine "Surge" unit went to Al Anbar province I believe.
Sorry, misplaced post above!!
As much as I don't like Crossfit posting political articles every rest day, I have to respond to this one.
First of all, to #42 and the others, "Secular Islam" is an oxymoron. Please stop saying that.
Secondly, the questions in this interview are laughable. They read like a propaganda pamphlet. And what’s with the insistence on calling it “World War IV”? Does this inspire some kind of patriotism or nobility in these people? The words “World War” imply that it is a war being fought by multiple nations across the mutiple ends of the world, yet the Iraq war was instigated and fought between Iraq, America, and to a much smaller degree, a few other American-allied nations.
This guy seems to be delighted in his idea that there will be a 30 year war. A “war on terrorism” is an idiotic concept. “Terrorism” is not a group of people, it is a tactic.
Unless there is a powerful nation bent on imperialism that is immediately trying to conquer you, it is absolutely true that a peoples’ greatest threat to its freedom comes from its own government, and often the best route to the police state is through frightening the people with menacing threats of hostile foreigners. Al Qaeda does not even remotely have the power to overthrow even a small city in the US. They might get really lucky and hijack some commercial jets. They might kidnap and kill some of us. But they don't have anywhere near the resources to really challenge our power.
Here is a recent quote from Colin Powell:
"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it's terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing?"
Here is another quote from Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same way in any country."
If only I had a dime for every time I've seen that Goerring quote. Deep, profound, and until you are able to link it up with actual realities in the world today, entirely irrelevant, although it does technically skirt Godwin's Law.
Out of idle curiosity, though, I do feel compelled to ask: in what respect does the Left labelling Bush a Fascist intent on undermining our political liberties not also create an "external" enemy around which to rally the Leftist troops? In an interesting irony, I see the primary use of this tactic of generating political conformity around an external enemy in use by the Left.
Ultimately, these are not abstractions, but realities. Some versions of reality are "truer" than others, and while I see no evidence of malign intent on the part of Bush in things like the Patriot Act, there can be no question that there are a lot of active Al Quedists, and that their rhetoric and actions are congruent, and oriented around the creation of asymetrical damage to America. One man with a nuke, as most 15 year olds can readily envisage, will in fact accomplish what Colin Powell seems to prefer ignoring, at least in the snippet you posted, which may well be taken out of context. That you are ignoring it here--chemical, biological, nuclear attacks--can only result from propagandistic intent, or such profound ignorance as to be truly stunning.
Were you trying to sell anything to anyone after 9/11? I was, and whole industries tanked. Many thousands lost their jobs. This was a minor attack compared to what is possible, and given the nature of modern technology we have no choice but to rely primarily on preemption, since policing strategies are just not cut out for that sort of work.
More generally, a principle reason the Middle East is so violent is that it has no working social mechanisms in place for positive growth in economic and social models. The streams of wealth being created around the world, the middle classes emerging in the Asian Rim, and even now some parts of Africa and South America, are never going to take root in the Middle East unless profound changes happen. Given our current situation, Iraq is a logical place to start figuring out how to generate a peaceful, just nation that can grow economically and in political liberties.
These changes do not happen overnight, but if they don't start, they don't happen at all. This is precisely the problem we face in trying to confront what might be termed a continent of resentment. This continent continues from the Middle East throughout Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, China, Russia, etc.
The problem is not just economic, but in my view that is a big part of it in many areas. It orients around mindsets with respect to economic processes. There are obviously conceptions of modernity, and the proper place of religion that can be invoked to, but I don't have the time or desire for that discussion here.
Finally, if the term secular Jew can be used, I see no reason there could not be such a thing as a secular Muslim.
Only 8% of those held at Gitmo are/were fighters for either the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Of 93,000 people detained, interviewed by the FBI, or fingerprinted, photographed, and interviewed by the INS, none have been convicted.
"Again, simply because they came from Arab and Muslim countries, no other criteria for suspicion. But the theory was we might find a terrorist here."
Coach at #62 said to louc4r #60, , “Might Podhoretz not have mentioned the 'war profiteering corporations that drive the War Machine forward' because this is a fantasy construct of the left invisible to the rest of us?” At #137, apparently for the sake of argument, Coach conceded a part of this fantasy MIGHT exist, “I can see the 'War Machine', I think.”
Your answer included the following, part ambiguous and part a non sequitur:
“I don't like the notion of a 'war machine' either. But I ask you, if you can see the machine, are you not curious about its maker, its caretaker, if you are so inclined: the ghost in that machine? And if there is no ghost, but simply an invisible hand, why does the invisible hand create a machine for war, and not a machine for something else?”
Your second and third sentences reveal that you believe in the existence of a “war machine”, and more. So what you object to in the first sentence is not the hypothesis that a “war machine” exists, but instead you recite the pacifist's lament: you object to war machines.
You feign reasonableness by creating a false concession that the alleged war machine may not have a ghost. In its place, you postulate that it has an “invisible hand”. The difference is indistinguishable. You then say you don't like “mechanistic metaphors”, but you don't seem to mind, and even prefer, phantom metaphors or equally phantom conspiracies. At any juncture in your analysis, do you take any facts at face value?
Suppose one were to concede for the sake of argument (again) that all the people you list, from congress to preferred shareholders, were guilty of corruption. And further concede that “'second-handers'” profited from the corruption. How do those concessions establish that the War on Terror is being pursued for any purposes other than as stated by the officials and a matter of public record? How does the presumed corruption establish an invisible hand?
If you have no evidence whatsoever for this invisible hand, your position is delusional.
You refer to the “overtly jingoistic, pro-American, unblinkingly loyal … [CrossFit] website”. This is an interesting juxtaposition of terms. Jingoism is one of the most overworked terms in the left lexicon. It means boasting of the country's readiness to fight, saber rattling if you will, and aggressiveness. You now couple this with pro-Americanism and loyalty. This seems to reveal that the left is neither pro-American nor loyal. The right in America seems reluctant publicly to draw the conclusion you implicitly admit.
You give no evidence for your jingoistic accusation, so we are free to assume your source. It seems to be drawn from the nature of the articles posted on rest day for comments. Those articles are posted without comment by CrossFit, and in fact are rarely if ever overtly supported by Coach or his staff. The assumption that a request for comment is support for the position is paranoid. The request is in the highest tradition of argumentation.
What the rest day articles foster routinely from the public is criticism and support for the articles and the actions of the United States. I wonder, does that ever happen at moveon.org or dailykos.com?
Implicitly, you align yourself with “mainstream pragmatic folk”. See #134. You'll find the American mainstream annoyingly conservative. The country was covered in red-white-and-blue in the year after 9/11. The support for Bush'43 from the public and congress was overwhelming. On another front, main stream media continues to slip into obscurity, from the NY Times to NBC, measurably in favor of a Johnny-come-lately cable channel, Fox News.
Unlike you, rational people don't wallow in conspiracies. Unlike you, rational people don't find objective criticism objectionable. Unlike you, mainstream America does not recoil from pro-Americanism and loyalty.
Characterization is no substitute for refutation. A good habit is to read to understand first, then read to criticize. Another good habit to develop if you want to participate in any sort of debate, is to be very charitable in the way you reconstruct your opponent's arguement. People watching you pitch won't be impressed with your fastball once they've detected you've moved the mound a few feet toward the plate.
Also, I don't advise calling your interlocutor names. I never called Coach irrational, I never used phrases such as "people like you". I didn't call Coach a 'conservative' or a person 'on the right' - because I'm sure there are people who fall into those facile categories (especially useful for pollsters, marketers and demagogues) with whom he would disagree and who would disagree with him. You should grant me, and others who post on your dad's website)the same courtesy.
My response to Coach was not on all fours. I did not try to set out his argument and refute it. It cannot be 'refuted'. And argument by counterexample turns into pointless ping-pong. I want to pose questions to him, hopefully to compclicate the issues for him. Because I do not think the world is a simple as, you're with us or against us. Open up a commercial law suit and see just how nuanced the various interests can be. One business transaction but 2, 3, 4, 5,.... parties counter and cross-claiming against some but not others, and they all have plausible, reasonable interpretations of a single agreement. One may be best, but all the others are not the same as the worst. One of the others will likely be the best in another context.
Objections overruled. You opened the door, implicitly aligning yourself with mainstream, pragmatic folk.
As to characterization vs. refutation, who characterized congress, the senate, the executive, state legislatures, boards of directions and stock holders as dispensers of favors, beholden to those "that make their fortune off of the pubic purse", all without proof? Refutation requires proof.
Who characterized the war effort as the response to an invisible hand? Was that charitable to the President or the legislature? Or were you charitable in the way in which you characterized their positions? Did you refute any government position?
My suggestion is that you read the key pieces of legislation involved in the present war effort. These would include especially
• the War Powers Act of 1973 (Public Law 93-148), and
• PL 105-235 (8/14/98, Iraq is in breach of its international obligations in the wake of Desert Storm),
• PL 105-338 (10/31/98, the US policy is to liberate Iraq and displace Saddam Hussein),
• PL 107-40 (9/18/01, the President is granted war powers to pursue those who perpetrated the 9/11/01 attacks and other such nations or persons as the President chooses to prevent a repetition), and
• PL 107-243 (10/16/02, the Congress grants specific powers for the President to use force against Iraq as a part of the war on terrorism for 23 reasons listed.)
After you've done your homework, please share with us where the invisible hand lies, and exactly what is the nature of our "war machine" under such legal directives, the product of a democratic process by a nation under attack.
I agree we should be charitable to one another. We should also be charitable to others we criticize, and refute or support based on facts duly cited. Let's respect the facts first.
My reference to an "invisible hand" comes out of an obscure work called the "Wealth of Nations" written by a little-known author by the name of Adam Smith. The phrase "Ghost in the machine" is taken from a fairly standard 20th century interpretation of the thought of another obscure western thinker, "Rene Descartes". I used it because (apropos of Descartes) it is relevant to a mechanistic view of the universe in which forces have been set in motion (somehow) and inevitably lead to certain consequences according to natural laws. I used it also because it carries overtly deistic overtones that I thought might prod out some comment from the folks who think of Republican foreign policy as a service to their God.
Homework….? How about a sustained encounter with the cultural heritage we term “western”?
As far as I know, no member of the legislature is writing in this forum, so the idea that I should be charitable in my method of dialogue with them doesn't fit does it?
Each piece of legislation you cite could support my supposed conspiracy theory (if I held it). I didn't once mention conspiracy. Look up the definition of 'consipiracy', it doesn't apply to the assumptions I made in the questions I asked of Coach. To be a party to a conspiracy you must have a common criminal objective with the members of the conspiracy. It is not enough that you all have different criminal objectives. What I talked about were interests that overlapped (Adam Smith's 'invisbile hand') to a degree that allow those who profit from war to gain influence in the government (and I made no distinction between the Dems and Reps). Also, to gain influence it is not necessary to influence all or even most of the representatives. It may require far less.
I didn't align myself with mainstream folk. That's a misinterpretation based on an "if you criticize A you must be B" mentality. This brings me to my general and by now tediously repeated point. The conviction that a person or a nation can live guided by a conviction that everyone is "either for or against" her or it, is ridiculously simplistic, and it is harmful to the person or the nation who acts on it.
I've posted a response to your latest. It's caught in the filter.
Just for the record in this dying thread:
The invisible hand in the Wealth of Nations is the instinct that drives man to produce national wealth by working locally and in his self-interest. Gilbert Ryle in The Concept of Mind, 1949, used the phrase “ghost in the machine” to describe the soul infused into the machine body of man. These are indeed religious concepts, but they seem to bear no relation to the war machine you envision.
You invite a legal definition for conspiracy. That restriction is too limiting. For example, people who think oil companies are behind the “war in Iraq” are conspiracy theorists since they cite no evidence to support the conjecture. In this case, no wrongful act is involved, so there is no legal conspiracy. Here are some definitions from Dictionary.com. Conspiracy:
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
You asked, “why does the invisible hand create a machine for war, and not a machine for something else?” The first problem is what exactly is the “machine for war”? The Military-Industrial complex? The Armed Forces? The Iraq coalition forces?
Clearly you find the war effort objectionable, if not evil. You wrote about a vague “war machine”, comprising a vast array of cogs, guided variously by a ghost or an invisible hand. You didn't use the word “conspiracy”, but isn't some conspiratorial undertaking implied by what you describe? Per definition 5, we have a concurrence in action by the military, plus the congress, the executive, etc. (the cogs), handing out favors on behalf of people who make their fortunes by dipping into the public purse. And per definitions 2 and 3, it is all done in secret (i.e., invisible, ghostly).
You dichotomized the CrossFit audience as (A) mainstream pragmatic fold and (B) the choir. You attack the choir, comprising “military, fire, police and other public-servant department” groups. You fault the logic, “if you criticize A you must be B”. You leave out that you established A or B. Since you criticize B, the CrossFit choir, you either criticize yourself or you are a member of A.
You align yourself with the mainstream pragmatic fold by appealing to what you think that group would think as support for your argument.
But if you are not among the mainstream, pragmatic folk, you have made my points: mainstream America doesn't buy into conspiracies, and it doesn't recoil at patriotism and loyalty. The right has its problems, but those, which trouble you, are not among them