If you were working out in Pottruck at Upenn, let me know if you want a workout partner. By the way, I definitely need a rest day, hahaha, good day to play some tennis.

Looking good Boston!

Thank the Rest Day Gods. Much needed. But like the weekend, it will all soon be over...

Thankyou, Coach Burgener, and all the trainers at Crossfit Santa Cruz for everything today, I truly needed this seminar and all the information presented probably won't be completely absorbed for a while, but with such awesome trainers, it won't take long!

This is one of the best articles i've seen posted here. Bruce Schneier is one of the best guys in security, and his points make so much sense that it hurts to look at what we've been doing instead.

In fact, if you look at just how hard the problem of security is, it makes sense that one of the best solutions is to NOT "make" MORE terrorists. There's always going to be some, but making many, many more is going to invite failure of what is an inevitably porous solution. Draw your own foreign policy conclusions.

Favorite line: "This is a human problem"

Ooooh, let's see if that WOD shown in the video makes an appearance soon! Bring it on!

I ate sooo much ice cream at the hall tonight, it's just not right...

wow, just wow, what a great video. inspirational

REST DAY!!!! YIPEE!!!

Got up and ran this morning to clear the funk from a long hard week (LSD for 37:39). Unfortunately I must make up the muscle up workout from Thursday because I missed it. Last time I got 2 good ones in, hope to better that this time.

Coach Burgner,

Thanks for the seminar. It was Grand! I will dream sweetly of heaving snatch balance and zotts presses tonight. (Hopefully there won't be any nightmares about only getting 48 shoulder presses in 60 seconds when the goal is 50!) Thanks again for sharing your extraordinary gift for teaching with us! I feel truly privileged!

-Andres De la Rosa
Amadraeus@CrossFitMarin.com

How does everyone handle eating related to the timing of the workout?? Do you eat before or after and what do you guys suggest I eat that will give me the energy and not the feeling of wanting to puke.....thanks

Thanks Amadraeus for your input last thursday on whether or not crossfit would be beneficial for my golf game. Since it is my living I am always searching to get better and stronger, physically and mentally. However, you are absolutely right that whatever I do I need to keep my range of motion and flexibility and continue to get better. I think it is achievable as I get better and stronger with cross fit. As I get beter with cross fit will the soreness get less and less because I am feeling soooooo sore in my pec and lat area! Can I modify cross fit exercises by doing less weight and focusing on technique and range? or is that a cop out? Much appreciated!

#11 Louis,

In my experience (about 18 months) of CrossFit, I have found that the soreness is less acute as my fitness improves. However, the nature of CrossFit, "constantly varied functional movements done at high intensity", prevents your body from fully adapting, thus I think you'll always experience soreness. After 18 months, I find that it is infrequently so severe that it limits my rom. FYI, I'm 48 years old, so I might be more susceptible to muscle soreness than younger CF'ers. I'm not a golfer, but I can't imagine that CF would not be extremely beneficial for you, particularly in strengthening your core.

50yom/168lb
Did a modified version of yesterdays wod.
This was the first attempt a OHS since my shoulder pain started 4 months ago.
5x12 @75lbs OHS and yipee no pain.
Followed with 3x12@50lb over head lunge
frog stands,l-sit,push-ups,tabata squats.

I agree with the Schneier's comments about the faults of our security thus far. However, I fail to see where he says he will fix it. I don't have the answers for security, but Schneier only provided some vague comments that, while they make sense, I'm curious what ACTUAL steps would be taken. "I'd spend money on intelligence investigation and emergency response." I thought the CIA (Central INTELLIGENCE Agency) did things like that... how would his plans differ? And he says he would keep our civil liberties intact. Well isn't that the problem intelligence agencies are having... how to get information from terrorists while leaving all the innocent people alone? He never gives an actual method to perform what he says. Emergency response? What sort of response? And responding to emergencies would not be very secure now would they? Once something happens, I'll respond quickly... well security is supposed to be proactive.

I am not saying I know the answers but I'm also not claiming to be the security guru. Maybe this was just a poor interview and he has better things to say in his book. If that is the case, please let me know.

@#11:
I've got a rest day question for you, ScottH. I'm 4 weeks into cf wods and loving it, if for nothing else the variety. I'm 40 and read a lot about how I won't be building muscle at this age. I'm pretty sure this is based on generations previous when not many 40+ folks really tried to build muscle, but I'd love to hear the experiences of any 40+ cf'ers out there.
Thanks,
Don

Incredible work on the video Boston/North Shore Crew! Nice squats, EC! That has got to earn you the title of Goddess of the Traffic Lights! You just have to remember to get flexy, frisky with it!

Dawn - you inspire me!

Dave - Why can't you clean the house like you cleaned that bar? Perfect!

man, do i need to do LOTS o' front squats. it was great lifting with the rock stars of boston/north shore. impressive work - as always - dawn and dave!

pierre and doug - guess if you had the right accent, you would have made the cut! ;)

tara, lol - i do need to get flexi and frisky with it.

Don #16:

I am 47 yo and now completing my 16 month of CF. At the outset I weighed 155 #'s with around 19 or 20% BW fat. I now weigh 154 with around 11% BW fat. I'm not much of a drinker so I'm pretty sure that my liver didn't get bigger, accounting for the same weight/less fat phenomena! CF and proper diet will build muscle at any age. The advantage of youth has to do with greater (relatively) secretion of GH, and for men greater endogenous androgens.

But even us old folks still have some, and CF will give you the max possible out as long as you put the max possible in.

Welcome aboard. Fasten your seatbelt.

I knew I should have skipped this!

I'm really glad we did the hang clean squats this week, its a move I really want to master.

The video today is great! Good job by all.

As far as the article goes I find him right on a lot of points. The majority of security implementations is just to annoy the sheep (I love this terminology). When they banned water on flights, I walked through security with no water, went right to a vendor, got 3 bottles of water and put them in my backpack and went right onto the plane...at the time that was something you weren't supposed to do. But was anyone checking? Nope. Did anyone care? Nope.

I was at the local intl airport here the other day and a door that was supposed to be closed going to the flightline was open because when someone had gone out it the wind has prevented it from fully closing. I must have watched 100 people walk by and do nothing, as I watched this door flap open. Funny thing was, 3 uniformed patrol officers all had their back to it for at least 30 minutes and didn't even look at it once. I went up and politely informed them of the situation which they thanked me for letting them know but in that annoyed "why are you bothering me?" voice.

3 weeks later this same airport had a bomb threat against it and it was locked down for 7 hours. I can see why.

In my job in the military I work in a building where the door must be shut and in fact we have a 2-door system. All doors are alarmed if they aren't shut. EVEN HOMES HAVE THIS FEATURE!!! Why is it our airports don't on critical passageways?

I agree with the article, reinforced cockpit doors and people willing to be sheepdogs are the only things that have really changed anything. I wish those who are supposed to be sheepdogs would stop being complacent, because that more then anything is what is going to kill us.

whooops --- Trigger Happy ---

It was fun though, Dave, Dawn, Eva Claire you guys did awesome on this WOD... Me and Doug just bashed through it without a caring too much whether we looked like idiots or not... And knowing me and Doug :)

Another great vid. Thanks.

34/M/185
2 months of Crossfit and I feel my best in years. I'm 20lbs lighter, stronger(added about 20% to all my lifts), and faster(knocked 3min off my 5km). All can say is thanks Coach and Crossfit. I'm hooked big time. Everyone keep up the good work and remember spread the word, Crossfit works.

I am glad to see I did not look like an ass in front of the community with my lifts. Pierre, I would have liked to see you in the vid. Your lifts were great. Maybe we can get a vid of your snatch posted. It is beautiful! Dawn and Ec great job! I think I was most impressed with Doug Chapman's 245 max.

I did the "3 bars of death" today
M/29/ 197
DL-301
Bench-200
Clean-155
35:21, used a bit more weight, slowed my time but I made all the lifts.
Sue, and Dan, thanks for the support on the posts, I'll be looking forward to getting out to train with you this week.

Dave,
Yeah DChap needs one of Eva T's Stong Bitch T-Shirts!!!

Did "Nancy" today. First day back after cracking two ribs two weeks ago. My ribs still hurt, but I just couldn't take it anymore and had to workout. Can't do many pushups and pullups hurt like you wouldn't believe, but I could do a handstand. So, figured I could run and do a lightweight Nancy with just the bar (45#). Time: 13:32.

I can tell this is going to be a slow recovery. At least I've still got some pain killers left if I need it later today!

A good rest day - 5km run in the Calgary Police Marathon.

Great job EC, Dave, Doug and Pierre it was a good time and learned a lot from all. Thanks again to Tony for the workout and his coaching during this one.

Don W. #16

I weigh roughly the same as when I started, but have little doubt that I've replaced fat with muscle. I haven't measured % body fat in years, so I can't give you any numbers there. Where it matters, in performance, there is little doubt that I'm stronger than I've ever been. I was primarily an endurance athlete prior to CrossFit, with sporadic and relatively light weight training. After 18 months, I still set new pr's regularly, including a pr in Linda, the 30 muscle-up WOD, and the HSC/Pull-up WOD last week (I admit that it was a better than average week). Over the past year, my DL has increased by 70 lbs and my back squat by 40 lbs. My goals are to hit 300 lbs for both lifts this year and I have little doubt that I'll hit those benchmarks. I am curious as to when my performance will peak and begin to decline with age and am curious if any "older" CF'ers have experienced this. When that happens, or if it already has, it will be a tough mental transition and I hope I'm up to the challenge. I actually am finding that strength gains are more achievable right now than metabolic ones, especially mentally.

Welcome to CrossFit. Work into it gradually and don't get caught up in the need to do things as prescribed before your ready. Be aware that the WOD's are potent, as Coach says, and will challenge even the best athlete in his/her prime. I still can't do all the WOD's as rx'd, but I do most. If you want more stories, consider starting a thread on the message board.

First a great big Thanks! to Coach Burgener (YES COACH!) and the Crossfit Santa Cruz coaches for the wonderfull Olympic lift seminar yesterday. Belinda and I learned so much and can't wait to start greasin' the groove with the drills and skills presented. We are also surprised at how many sore muscles can be created by working out with a piece of pvc pipe. We were impressed with the energy and enthusiasm of all involved. Special cudos to Andres and Mark for their demonstrations of strength and tenacity in the one minute drills, impressive work. Now just to cover my ass, YEA BURPEES!

#16 Don, I'm 56 and have been working out, one way or another, since age 11. I've been Crossfitting for a year. I have heard that as we age our ablity to make new muscle tissue diminishes. However, we can increase the size of muscle cells at any age. In any case, several clinical studies have shown that men in their 70's and 80's can gain lean muscle mass and bone density with weight bearing exersize. Since starting Crossfit, I believe my lat and bicep size has increased, a result of all those pullups we do no doubt. However, I think I can say, size is not the goal for most of us doing Crossfit workouts, rather what we can do and how our lives are enhanced through broad based fitness.

Don, #16 Ditto what Dave posted. I started crossfit at 38, and now I am 41. Noticiabley more muscle and less fat. Definitley stronger and leaner. Fitter and way more endurance, intensity and power than I ever thought possible.

CrossFit works no matter what age you are.

(Good training and coaching helps. Diet matter.)

Correction: Diet matters. ;)

The government never implements programs that maximize the public good. The government only implements programs that maximize the prospects of incumbents being reelected. At this point, the only political discussion involving Homeland Security is whether the employees should be allowed to become unionized, allowing politicians to pander to them as a special interest group.

The idea of allowing trained professionals to make judgment calls is so antithetical to government work as to be unheard of. (Unless it’s government employees leaking classified information regarding their disagreement with the Administration. Even the President and Attorney General are not trusted to make political decisions involving political appointees.)

The moment some employee develops a rational model of whom to search and admits that the model involves considering whether the selected person is a young Muslim male, the New York Times will launch an endless series of attacks on unjust racial profiling; the employees will be suspended; their managers will be fired; and we will be back to where we are today.

If we were willing to allow professionals to use their judgment, the public school system would work. Instead, politicians pander to teacher’s unions; bad teachers get tenure; good teachers are thwarted; and students suffer. If this is how government treats education, how can we possibly hope it will take a less self-serving approach with security?

I just finished "Nancy" and I noticed my left hand started to get numb while doing overhead squats. I've never noticed that before, has anyone else experienced this? Is this normal for your hand to start to numb a little? I'm hoping so. I'm a little worried.

Chuck, #37, check the width of your grip. Sometimes an excessively wide grip can pinch the wrist.

19 yom/155 lbs/ 6'0"

This is only my 2nd day doing crossfit (well technically 3rd but I had to take yesterday off because it felt like I was getting bursitis in my hip again). Tried "Nancy" today but only got 3 rounds in. Ran 500m on the first round because I had no way to judge the distance other than time. Took 7:38 for the 3 rounds though which I don't think is too bad. Would really like to complete a full crossfit workout though. This stuff is hard!

Hey-

Run 10K - 60min, slow and sloppy

Finished 18th for my age group [45-49] and 163rd overall in the RiverRun at IowaCity, Iowa.

But I set a course record for the "Fathers in town for a 22nd Birthday Party and signs up on a whim and runs with a wicked hangover and no sleep."

-K

E.C. & Boston crew - GREAT JOB!!

We miss you all!

I have a lot of difficulty doing overhead squats--unable to keep bar from moving forward while squating. Any ideas how to correct this? Perhaps stretching? I am 6'6" and wondering if that is a problem due to leverage. Thanks for any help.

Chuck,

That started happening to me yesterday. I realized that as I got tired my shoulders dropped from the necessary "active shoulder" position. Active shoulders are a shrug or push into the direction of the weight. As I tired mine fell and that stretched the nerves that lead to the hand, causing the numbness and tingling. I have heard of a wide grip doing it as well, both of these seem like plausible rationale's. It's not bad that it happened, but check your form and make appropriate changes and it should go away.

Hari, I agree with you that the author is not forth coming with solutions.

Security and liberty are diametrically opposed. Talk to a soldier or Cop.

Liberals will always gripe that civil liberties are being kicked in the Jimmy, yet they will gripe after the fact that not enough was done. This is especially true if a Conservative is at the head of the Conservative Branch. Ironically, the Kennedy and Johnson administrations were the most corrupt in regards to stomping on civil liberties with government resources in our history. The Clinton administration did not appear to be to far behind (File Gate and Irs Audits)

Conservatives will always gripe about the cost especially when unions get involved. This also means that effectiveness will be an issue as well as the most ineffective applicants will flood to take the jobs for finacial security. The mass hiring of thousands has lead to a very inept bunch. I would have liked to believe that an aplicant would have to be of average intelligence, however as I consider myself average, these people are not. The policies in effect for them to follow reflect the trust the leadership of the TSA and homeland security have for these people.

Libertarians tend to be ineffective as well, as they can't agree on anything long enough to make anything happen. Though they are an entertaining bunch, they need to admit they are really two different factions and go their seperate ways.

Regardless, of who in politics is running the bureaucracy...it will generally be ineffective sense it is responsive in nature like the author said.

About the other day's music......I did not see anyone simple ASK if CFHQ could be a little more careful about music choices or if there was a reason such choices are used. Mostly just grumbling and threats to leave the community. Guys, they sell "Infedel" t-shirts...PC is not CrossFit. If you have invested money into the CF system, in whatever form, you know what you are gettting with the fitness information. With the thought police on the rise, I suggest enjoying the sweet freedom of speech and association while you can. Even if you don't agree with something. Right and wrong are often one political vote apart.

#36

Bruce Schneier has written about the problems that come up when "some employee develops a rational model of whom to search." Basically, you are trying to use easy to quantify demographic data to replace observation and thought:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/07/profiling.html

It is quite popular in the US to call for racial profiling in terms of "Some Arabs want to kill us, so lets search them more often (duh)." The Virginia Tech. shootings show one possible downside of this. The shooter was widely considered to be scary/creepy/dangerous but "Cho Seung-Hui" doesn't fit common demographic models of what a dangerous person looks like so he was easier to overlook. Of course *now* we will start looking more closely as Asian-American males (barn-door, horse and all that)...

looking good Mike! great video!

An example of what goes wrong/what should happen from my personal experience:

My girlfriend and I once missed a flight from Seattle to Minnesota so we bought last minute, one way tickets. Furthermore, we had both just renewed our driver licenses so all we had was the paper temporary licenses that WA state gives out (they look photocopied and would be much easier to fake).

So, consider all the suspicious factors:
- 2 unrelated flyers
- one-way flights
- last minute ticket purchases
- temporary paper IDs
- both IDs issued/expiring on the same day

I expected to see the full glory of Homeland Security at work so we turned up extra-early. Indeed the computer system had flagged us for extra screening, but that just meant a bored TSA employee going through the motion of inspecting our bags. The thing that struck/terrified me was the utter lack of thinking. No-one asked questions "Why are your temporary IDs both issued on the same day?" or verified anything "Do you have any credit cards with your name on them?", "Let me confirm you have a return flight." or considered going through our bags extra, extra closely...

#42 - I'm 6'2". It's not leverage, just technique.

I had the same problem last time we did OHS in January (my first real OHS workout). I had practiced with the CFWU and "broomstick" and was surprised that I could barely balance the 45 lb Oly bar on my way down. My shoulder brought the bar forward, and once that happens, you lose center of balance and can't complete the squat.

What helped me was two-fold. I did the following on each CFWU broomstick thingie for the ensuing three months:

1) Hold the broomstick with a wider grip, and pretend that you're S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G it out. Intensity. Don't sleepwalk through your CFWU.

2) Really focus on holding that broomstick BACK overhead, so that it's directly over your butt. This will help increase range of motion for your shoulder, and over time, you won't be fighting with tendons and muscles that are trying to rubber band the OHS forward.

Last time I did the OHS this week, I was surprised that I was able do do 90 on my last set, and just for fun, tried 1x95, which was not the embarrassing nightmare it was when I *thought* I could do these easily the first time out after watching Nicole's OHS competition video.

Bottom line: stretch your shoulder by stretching the bar lengthwise.

(YMMV)

Just as an addendum to #48, I made the mistake at first of using the same ultra-wide broomstick grip on the bar, and it put too much pressure on my thumbs. The broomstick exercises are great, just be careful about applying that grip to heavy overhead squats.

For the heavy overhead squats, I use a wide deadlift style grip (it's about a hand and a half wider on each side than my narrow clean grip).

28/f/150#ish

I just got back from vacation. I picked a fun-sounding workout from the Brand X message board.

CFWU x 2, in which I discovered that I had some monster trigger points in my traps.

5 rounds for time

10 DB front squats - 20# DBs
20 walking lunges
10 DB swings - 30#

25:00, all sets unbroken, water breaks before DB swings and ~1 min rest between rounds to keep Pukie at bay

CCT JOEY,

That post was not up to your usually high standards of clarity and reason.

"security and liberty are diametrically opposed"
my jaw just dropped when I read that one.

In a society of responsible armed citizens, security and liberty exist in an ideal balance.

Thanks Scott H!
I figured that the nature of CF is to constantly adapt and never get your muscles into a "groove" sort of speak. I am just going to have to manage the soreness with extra stretching and schedule CF according to my tournaments. I am committed!

Thanks Duvall and Tony B.

I did have a wide grip. I'm glad to know it isn't just me. Nerve issues are soemthing I take seriously. I'm glad I can fix it by gripping a little more narrow and tightening my shoulders a bit more.

I'm having the same problem with the OHS where I don't have the flexibility in my shoulders to keep the weight back. So I take a super-wide grip - and I've also noticed numbness in my hands. Any suggestions on stretching for this? Or technique tweaks? I'd really like to be able to do these.

Thanks Hale and Luke! The info is much appreciated and I'll definitely work on those OHSs.

#54

For flexibility in the shoulders I take a broomstick and grip each end and rotate my arms from my stomach, over my head, to my lower back. Each rep of this you should move your hands a little closer together as this makes it harder to stretch. Hope this helps

Josh...

That is true. However in the truest sense...The more secure something is the less liberty it has. Whether that be a prison or a dog kennel or a patrol base or a biker gang.

Armed citizens are able to protect liberty by providing "security" by an on-demand basis, the government cannot. In essecence it is the liberty of self-defense they are employing. They are taking responsibility for security of the themselves. If you want that responsibility to fall on the government,or an organization...get ready to forfeit your liberty (of varying degrees).

OORAH COACH BURGENER!
Nice to log on and remember getting yelled at every afternoon.

good work, boston!

If a society has constraints placed upon it by an "external" organization, it is more secure but less free.

but if a society places limits on itself from within, then it is more secure but maintains its liberty because it is flexible and self governing. By extension, if I place limits upon my own behavior I am exercising true liberty although my degrees of freedom are constrained.

I think i got it.

Josh...

That is how I see it. Good point in distinguishing freedom and liberty in you post.

I look at it like censorship...Imus was not censored...he was Fired. Only government can censor...private business is exercising its rights as an employer.

Security is the same way. It is based off of who is taking responsibility...the individual by rights or government by law. The true argument, in my opinion, is who is responsible for my life in every aspect...I default to me.

1. If something goes bad it its easier to hold myself accountable and learn from the situation, than to attempt to have another be responsible.

2. Since it is difficult to hold a grudge against yourself, I suggest viewing everything that happens to you as your responsibility, good or bad.

This can be applied to security as well, as you explained with firearms, or money, income, knowledge, wisdom, location, and activities.

The more you take onto your own shoulders the more rewarding life is once you can knock loose the apprehension.

Of course if someone would like to tell me different who thinks they have a more rewarding life, by all means...share the secret.

I disagree with him about the need for security "theater".

Terrorism is not about assaulting physical targets. It is about assaulting minds and wills. It is about wearing your opponent out, so you can make actual political and even military advances. The only goal of our enemies in Iraq is to hang on our back like a heavy weight until we get tired, and put the weight down by leaving. That's it. It's that simple. The contrary, of course, is that we win solely by persisting.

Given this, we need to fight not just on the physical level by killing terrorists and would-be terrorists--and by advancing through political skill the size of the areas where they are unwelcome and cannot operate--but also by taking back the things they have tried to seize.

In the case of airport security, I'm as annoyed as anyone else, but I think the theater analogy is apt, in that the objective is to create a sense of safety, which is of intrinisic value, and that need not be tied objectively to actual safety. Remember people stopped flying, post 9/11, and they are flying again today. The theater is a big part of that. The theater constitutes a counterattack on their attempt to subvert our sense of normality. Our lives as we choose to live them.

And as far as that goes, the measures are not useless. We are forcing our enemies to be creative, to choose new approaches. We are closing pathways. No one can imagine every pathway possible, but we certainly need to close the ones we do know about.

In my company, we have a lot of processes. None of them would be needed if people actually used their brains, compared the goal we are attempting to accomplish, with the facts at hand. Sometimes they do in fact do this. Quite often, they don't. You can't assume the ability or the desire to think of anyone, especially when it has to do with large organizations, and complex systems.

Therefore, I agree that people should have some freedom to follow intuition, but there also needs to be a baseline policy that gets executed even if the person came in hung over with 2 hours of sleep.

Powerful words.

My big problem with security theater is that it drains the (finite) resources allocated to Homeland Security. For every 3-4 minimum wage TSA screeners who are hired to provide a sense of safety, the government could hire a smart, motivated, *thinking* security agent to provide actual safety. My guess is that TSA doesn't really close any security holes in a meaningful way, although they do provide a bit of a speedbump. I dread to think how much that actually costs us.

Also, I actually think that the government's approach to airport security now makes people feel less safe. A few problems:
- These days the threat level is always "Orange" which doesn't sound very safe.
- The list of items which are banned or have to be screened (shoes, hand lotion, fingernail clippers) gives the impression that the bad guys are capable of destroying us anytime, anywhere with only ordinary household items.
- Getting screened, scanned, processed can be quite nerve-wracking for people, which makes them more nervous. I can't be the only person who isn't actually comforted by taking off my jacket/shoes, being asked if I have any _liquids_ or _gels_, going through the x-ray machine and the weird (but cool) explosive-residue detecting machines all in the presence of armed guards and a disembodied voice announcing "The TSA Has Determined That The Security Threat Level Is Orange." :-)

Used my day off to hike the Muir Woods north of San Francisco.

I disagree that the TSA doesn't close any security holes. I doubt seriously, at this moment, in most airports, I would be able to smuggle a knife, gun, or any form of explosive on to the airplanes. If they weren't standing there, I would.

It's also not clear to me where we should be spending our money. For my money--and I think he says this--the best bet is going overseas and taking care of things over there.

As far as the threat codes, etc., my general impression is they are going overboard. My impression is they are erring on the side of caution. Although annoying, I have a reasonably high confidence level that any given flight I might be on is safe. Obviously, there has been no second act, other than Richard Reid, and of course the aborted liquid explosive plot, which was foiled far from the airport.

One other thing: the analogy I had intended to use was Listerine. As most people know, the old stuff didn't taste very good. It tasted like medicine. But the fact is, the bad taste didn't need to be there, and the Listerine people developed decades ago better tasting formulas, but they didn't sell. People just assumed that the worse tasting one was more efficacious.

Make of that what you will.

I think that whenever TSA is actually tested they normally fail to detect smuggled guns, knives or explosives.

Again turning to personal experiences -- TSA once let me take and entire Ironmind "Bag Of Nails" onto the airplane in my carryon luggage(http://www6.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/prodinfo.asp?number=1236). They did manage to notice it in the x-ray but didn't take it away (bending spikes aren't on the list of banned things). It wouldn't take much ingenuity or luck to get a real weapon onto an airplane.

Also, in these days of print-it-yourself boarding passes the ID verification is a joke too.

Most airport security is in the "bear repellent" category of security -- I carry a bear repellent medallion with me at all times, and I know it works because I haven't been attacked by a bear :-) Yes most flights are safe now, but flights were safe previous to 9/11 anyway.

That's not an indictment on the system, but on the implementation of the system. Would it have made you happier if they had taken your Bag of Nails? It's entirely likely someone was exercising common sense. I wouldn't have taken them.

I don't think a reasonable person would consider those a substantial enough hazard--given that passengers can now be expected to fight, and the cockpit doors are secured--to worry about. And in point of fact, they do pull things off people constantly. What has not been shown is both the weapon and the intent to use it, other than Richard Reid.

There are multiple potential explanations. One of them is that security is so tight, that no would-be terrorist group any longer considers plane hijacking a viable operation. There are no doubt flaws that could be exploited, but the system is far from open.

Another explanation might well be that our war on Terror is working, and we are consistently disrupting cells in many cases even before they can form. Or, in the case of the English "liquid bombers", before they can execute.

It could be that no one is out there even wanting to hijack our planes. This seems doubtful in the extreme. There are unquestionably many, many radical Muslims out there, who would not hesitate to give their lives to kill Westerners, but most of them are not in this country, and I would guess that most of those that are, are closely monitored.

As I said, I'm all in favor to allowing people to think, but people that think are quite rare. They are the top performers wherever they are and go, and even the best have bad days. Do we really want to have people whose badge says "The one who thinks"? Skill and motivation, like most other things, fall in a distribution pattern, and I'm sure the TSA is already trying hire the best people they can. Are they perfect? I'm sure they aren't. Like all burocracies, they no doubt do stupid things for the wrong reasons. And I certainly would not want to see them unionize, but I think they serve a useful purpose, as much as I hate to admit it, since they are annoying.

One thing I would like to see ended is the fully random secondary inspections. I've seen 7 year old girls go through secondary. Things like that, I would be more in favor of just letting people take their best guesses. Would that lead to profiling? Likely.

I will add on that note, though, that one thing that would make a whole lot of us feel better would be universal Muslim condemnation of the commission of mass murder through suicide. That should not be difficult, especially since if the victims are also Muslim, this is an egregious sin, no matter how you look at it.

The bag of nails worried me because TSA screeners will religiously confiscate anything on the list of banned items, even things that no reasonable person would consider a substantial hazard (e.g. yogurt, penknives or nail clippers) but let a bunch of metal spikes though purely because they hadn't explicitly been banned.

TSA screening seems to have huge logical flaws. They do take things away from people, but that isn't actually very useful. Suppose I go through the airport and TSA finds (gasp) some nail clippers in my bag. Consider the possibilities:
1. I intend to do something bad.
2. I intend to clip my nails.
3. I am intend to clip my nails but the man next to me intends to grab the nail clippers and do something bad.

If (1) is the case I shouldn't actually be allowed on the airplane. Surely the government wants to actually arrest The Bad People instead of trying to find their weapons each time they get on the plane. At a minimum I should be searched, questioned and flagged for intensive searches the next time I travel. Don't assume the flight is safe because the screeners found one weapon on the Bad Person.

If (2) is the case taking away my nail clippers actually serves no purpose.

(3) is the remotest case of all, but seems to reflect the approach that TSA takes (I'm safe but my weapon isn't). They don't do this because it is correct or makes sense, but because it is easy, creates the impression of security and doesn't inconvenience travellers too much.

I guess that TSA is trying to hire the best people they can but the $13/hour they pay can't be attracting great candidates.

You know, I don't think I can defend that stuff. However, it is also the case that if they are picking up nail clippers, they will also be picking up more serious weapons. If they aren't, I don't think it's because people are getting around security, but because nobody is trying to bring that stuff on planes.

A sort of useful analogy I've been using is that of Signal Theory. In signals of various sorts, noise and signal are mixed. To have a coherent communication, you have to deduct or filter the noise so you can hear the signal.

However, filtering mechanisms are not perfect. Formally, the only way to ensure that no noise enters a signal, is to allow zero signal. And the only way to ensure that no signal is missed is to allow all noise. 0% or 100%.

Applied to airline security, the only way to make flights 100% safe is to not have any. To ground all airlines. A second option, there, is to apply such a high level of filtering--which is close to 100%, but not there--that you wind up doing things like pulling nail clippers off people. I think this is the logic behind it, but I really don't know.

I will freely admit, it annoys me every time I have to take my belt off. I've learned to wear slip-on shoes, so that's less of an issue. Still, I think there is some logic in what they are doing, even if it doesn't always seem that way.

Pre 9/11, I and many friends always flew carrying folding knives with blades less than 4" long, and non-serrated (those were the FAA regs). Nobody ever got hurt. Some guys take some box cutters on board and drive some planes into buildings. Now, nobody carries any self-defense tools aboard...or are not supposed to.

A very good friend of mine works for the TSA, and not as a screening drone. It's all theater. It doesn't VERY little to increase security. One can even get around the new backscatter xray if you know how...and it's not hard to learn.

So, my belt has to come off, I have to stand in even LONGER lines because of a past threat (box cutters). When, in fact, the next threat was a shoe bomb. Now, my shoes have to come off. My knives go into my checked luggage....along with my guns.

The "liquid" bombs they were attempting to smuggle could still be done if they applied themselves. Nobody is safer, it just "feels" that way.

Hardening the cockpit door was the BEST thing they did. Pilots are instructed NEVER to open that door if something bad is going on in the cabin....as Spock said, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

So...how am I to fight back...with the plastic SPORK I get with my (now paid-for) meal?

This whole argument against knives and such on planes falls to the same muddled philosophy as the "no guns on university grounds" thinking...it merely makes it easier for bad guys because they know the good guys will not be armed.

Since 9/11, I have flown only once, and it was directly because of the stupid security provisions that I have not done so. NOT because I fear that the plane will be hijacked.