This was posted towards the end of the comments. I thought I'd repost so everyone could see:

My name is Heather Hager. I am the wife of SSG Joshua Hager. I am overwhelmed by the outpouring of love on this site. Thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart. I never realized how many lives my husband touched. A piece of my heart is gone forever. Joshua we love you and are SOOOOO proud of you. It was an honor to have been your wife.
RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!!!

Heather,
Your husband is a hero. My prayers go out to you and your family.

Godbless

God Bless you Heather
Erin

Heather, my thoughts are with you.
Annie- so strong girl.

I'm a former Marine and now a Cop. Two of my closest friends are still in and doing the deed. I was marveling in Annie's performance not knowing where it was heading. Nothing but PRIDE fills my soul than the conclusion of the video. God bless to Josh and his family, Semper Fi.

We are proud of you Heather. You made his life better. We owe you a debt we can never repay, but know you and your family are in our prayers. Stay strong...always remember you were his foundation. Keep it up. He was as proud of you as you are of him. God Bless and RLTW!!

PRIMUS EO,
Joey

N, my daughter, has been learning about Greek Literature and had to define what a hero was according to Greek Lit.
Here is the definition by Aristotle-

A hero is-
One who leads his people
One in control
One that people look up to; and follow his commands
One who should take care of his people
One who should find solutions to their problems
One who should set an example by doing the right thing
One who is honest and truthful
One who is strong and merciful
One who is tough, yet soft
One who is smart
One who displays discipline, loyalty, bravery, love of home, and obediance to Divine powers.

Heather, from one military wife to another, give yourself plenty of time to heal and I am sure that your husband was as equally proud of you. I hope that you find comfort in the memories of his love.

Take care,
Kate

Wow...That video was impressive.

SSG Hager was a guy from my military peer group, had I stayed in it easily could have been me. I now have his picture as my wallpaper, to help remind me everyday to work harder and stop wasting time on games, myspace, surfing the net, etc. It really put into perspective how important time is and how little of it we trully have.

Annie, today somebody asked me if I was a professional athlete. SO I must ask you... Are you a super hero?

Heather,

God bless you and your family. Your husband's sacrifice will not be forgotten.

Great video. If you want to know more about the threat we face from Jihad, check out Robert Spencer's site http://jihadwatch.org (work/family safe). It's interesting to note that Mr. Spencer has been called a hate monger and Islamophobic, but none of his accusers ever discount any of the verses he cites from the Koran.

Once a Ranger, always a Ranger. Our prayers and thoughts are with you and your family. Hooo Ah!

Yet another fantastic video to inspire us, and Annie is what now, only 6-7 months into motherhood? Awesome job on the WOD.

Was that B holding her baby?

In regards to the slide show, “What Every American Needs to Know about Jihad.”

I have recommended Cross Fit as a fitness source in the past to friends. If any of them stumble across this “presentation,” I will be deeply embarrassed for recommending the site.

For starters, the production quality of the video was laughable at best. With the overly dramatic background music, it became difficult to tell if the creator was trying to be ironic or serious. I have seen more professional looking presentations created by middle school students.

Secondly, I’m not sure what the point that the author was trying to address was. Yes, congratulations, you have noticed that there are Terrorist attacks that have happened around the world (also, many Terrorist attacks went unnoted, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing). Yes, if Al Qaeda could rule the world, they would chose to, and do so in a horrific manner. So would any other religious fundamentalist group. So was the message: there are some terrorists who are Islamic fundamentalists? Quite a keen observation, Bravo!

Third, was associating peaceful protestors in Chicago with terrorists a necessary step? If you have not forgotten the KKK and other extremist groups still holds marches and rallies in America, why no coverage of them? Also, random shots of some protestors are in no way representative of a whole group.

Lastly, by having the Islamic Crescent moon in the background during the entire presentation, coupled with the shots of the protestors in Chicago, you have created a blatantly anti-Muslim piece of propaganda. Let’s not forget the Hitler was a Christian, and Stalin and Atheist. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that they did far more evil then our current terrorists.

The above writings are not in any way meant to criticize American soldiers fighting in Iraq and around the world, but as a statement of shock that Crossfit would endorse the piece of rubbish that “What Every American Needs to Know about Jihad” is.

The videos are horribly reactionary. It pains me to know that some of you find this sort of presentation compelling. Horowitz is just as irresponsible in his generalizations as the islamist extremists. Sorry to resort to ad hominem, but Horowitz is a liar, fraud, and hypocrite. He does the conservative movement a disservice, and no serious conservative will give him the time of day.

Beyond Horowitz's sensationalism, I believe much of doctrinal Islam is incompatible with Modernism. Who doesn't? It's my (dim) hope that the Muslim world can restrain itself when it comes to this need to defend itself against any perceived offense. In the Modern world, that is the job of the State, not the Church. Sadly, according to the texts available and, indeed, Mohammed's words, if we offend them, they must try to convert us (then tax us, if successful) or kill us (if we won't be converted). This kind of righteousness has no place in the Modern world, whether in the Middle East or in the Bible Belt of the USA. While we want to be tolerant, where do we draw the line? Do we fight a series of pro-active, unilateral wars, from Afghanistan to Iraq to... Iran... Libya? Where does it stop? Is this just another Crusade?

RunnerX, agreed and well put.

Just let your friends know that Coach has a political side that he chooses to share with us on rest days. It's his site after all and while I am an avowed left-leaner it's often pretty basic stuff, albeit maddening.

While at first it can be a bit jarring, with time you'll see it as an interesting and pretty darn respectful forum for debate. Of course, some days are better than others.

If your friends aren't into mixing politics with exercise, let them know the rest day discussions aren't for them.

Keep spreading the news. Stay fit.

Runnerx, josh and photoman

How completely disrespectful can you be? Im embarrassed for you. There is a time for mourning and a time for debate. Sometimes common sense isnt so common.

Heather... CCTJOEY has away w/words that many of us don't. So I will just say that I second his and that you and your family are in our Prayers... And rest assure that "We have the Watch".

Annie- It's awesome to see my "Sistah" smoke my time. You ROCK! I especially like that "Dyl Pickle" was watching her mom kick ass.

B- You look natural holding a baby... Be careful bro.

Heather....you are so strong.

Annie...that was amazing!

Joshua...thank you for all you have done. You will never be forgotten.

Stay strong Heather. Josh is an example of the best that this country produces.

Runnerx,

The video is simply a modern-day Two Minutes Hate.

#16 Conscience - It is partly, albeit indirectly, the rampant, irrational, fear and paranoia displayed in those videos that sent Josh, and thousands of others, pointlessly to their deaths. I say indirectly because it was this fear that *voted in* this current administration, but I have no doubt that the Washington crowd themselves are fully aware that a bunch of religous nutballs, living in a cave in the middle of Pakistan, aren't much of a threat to the people of Wichita.

Runnerx - I laughed so hard reading your post when I got to the middle school part because minutes ago I had just said asked my wife if today's videos had been made by a couple of fifth graders.

JoshK - Hopefully the line gets drawn in 2008.

#16 "conscience"
Perhaps you should read the main page Rest Day topic for today's discussion:

"What Every American Needs To Know About Jihad" and "The Islamic Mein Kampf" - Terrorist Awareness Project, The David Horowitz Freedom Center

Post thoughts to comments.

Their comments were completely appropriate, and completely on-topic. Rest Days are a time for debate.

No mourning here. If you want to celebrate SSG Joshua Hager's life, beat Annie's time. I assume he died doing something he believed in, we should all be so lucky.

My condolences to all that knew him.

conscience, take it easy. i, and i'm sure the others, meant no disrespect by posting our thoughts on the topic of the day. the debate is not framed by the first post.

that said, my humble respect to heather. words seem insufficient.

And Billy #21 Godwins the thread early. Wow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

There are islamic extremists who are at war with the U.S. that need to be killed before they cause any more damage. That's what I got out of the videos, though it certainly isn't a new idea. Does anyone disagree with this message or are we just arguing over the style of the videos?

Islamic terrorists want WMD's to attack the US. There are WMD's available. When assessing threats, you assess intent, and capability. The intent is there, the capability is there, and the damage that such an attack will induce will be catastrophic, therefore it is a significant threat.

It would be nice to think that a bunch of wildeyed extremists in the mountains of Pakistan couldn't cause significant harm to the strongest nation in the history of the world. It would also be false. Preventing another terrorist attack should be a top priority of the American government. I am not convinced that it has been, or will be, until another attack occurs.

Russ - It's not that such an attack is not possible, it certainly is. It's just not going to do any harm to the people living in the fly-over states - the ones all worked up about it and living in fear of it.

I think that the majority of the people who live in the cities that have been/would be affected by these attacks are fed up with the moronic "bring it on" rhetoric of the Bush administration, when we are the ones who have to/will have to pay for this "war on terror", both literally and figuratively.

Furthermore, I just don't understand how it's all supposed to work out. They want to kill us because we want to kill them because they want to kill us and so on... what came first, the chicken or the egg?

Heather - My condolences for your loss. Josh is and always will be a hero.

Re: slideshow...

"Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly."

~Senator Robert M. La Follette

seriously, I think I am in love with Annie Except for the slight intimidation factor! Keep up the motivation.

Question

I am in the market for a rower, I found a kettler kadet rowing machine for under $400. Does anyone have a kettler rower? Is a concept 2 worth the extra 2-400?
Thanks for any feedback.

What does Billy #21 weigh? Just out of curiosity...

"the islamic mein kampf" is just Jewish propaganda trash, its hard to take it seriously when its written by a guy named Horowitz. Such typical behavior of pompous cry baby Israelites, whining about others while US troops fight their holy war for them.

Marshall

Have you even been to an Islamic country to see the type of people we are dealing with. Because if you have you were not paying attention. Although, I believe it to be the other way around. You probably sit back and read the paper or watch the news and believe that you have it all figured out.

"the rampant, irrational, fear and paranoia displayed in those videos that sent Josh, and thousands of others, pointlessly to their deaths"

As for that last quote, people like Josh are the reason you have the right to type such drivel. You embarass me with you're opionion. The opinion of the protected. Next time you spout of like that, think....because you may be offending the very people who gave you the right to say it.

As for the videos, yea they are poor quality, and people have the right to make up their own minds.

As for me. I am in one of those Islamic countries and I can comment because each day I learn a little more about the situation (In person) we are in as a country. So just to save you the time. I'm not just talking, I'm out doing. Enjoy the rest of you're day. You earned it!

Heather: I had an opportunity to meet your husband in person, missed it, and am poorer for it. I can only know him from the words of his comrades and his family and from his commitment to the mission he chose. From these I know beyond certainty that Joshua was a good and honorable man and a true warrior. I mourn your loss.

The words that come to mind for the two presentations from the Terrorism Awareness Project are "lame" and "cartoonish". That's cartoonish as in, "A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation". These slide shows don't even rise to the level of decent agit-prop. They were too painful to watch all the way through. As I'm in general agreement with the underlying message I'll just call this a badly missed opportunity to influence and inform.

#34 Mark,
I went to the ad hominem because I didn't want to spend the time arraying all the relevant links. If you're interested, I'd be happy to. I admit that I do feel better saying it, as I believe Horowitz and his ilk are poisoning true American conservatism. It feels good to lash out in public sometimes, but, beyond that, I said those things because Horowitz's sheisty reputation far precedes him and I was, frankly, surprised to see his content posted here. While I don't always agree with the rest day politics, I don't immediately recall seeing the sensationalist rantings of such a well-known demagogue. He's selling us glitter on *&%^, really. Are you familiar with his work to quash free speech (sorry, "liberal bias") on college campuses? W/F/S: http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/11/22/tabor Remember when he ran that article from Jared Taylor's "American Rennaissance" website? Remember when he ran the article "Jimmy Carter: Jew-Hater, Genocide-Enabler, Liar"? He has admitted to publishing secrets during the Cold War, in violation of the Espionage Act. He advocated the execution of an American who admitted to violating the Espionage Act more recently, John Walker Lindh.

Horowitz manipulates fear, prejudice, and ignorance to maintain his position of influence. He is less about truth than he is about developing his particular brand identity of reactionary confrontationalism. W/F/S: http://insidehighered.com/views/2005/04/25/larkin W/F/S: http://mediamatters.org/items/200608020003

Regarding generalizations: there is what the religious doctrine of Islam proscribes, and then there is the variety of religious observance in practice throughout the Muslim world. Swap the proper nouns and his arguments might as well be another piece of reductionist Islamist rhetoric. He is painting Islam into a corner, just like many imams do to Judaism and Christianity. I really want it to be clear that I don't necessarily disagree with (all of) the core issues embedded in Horowitz's agenda. I disagree with his tactics. If you aren't with us, you're with the terrorists... right? The free market of ideas needs to stay that way.

I'm sure Horowitz would love to help me answer my questions, or at least make sure I was in line with the rest of the party (remember 2000, his election guidebook praised by Rove, etc.?). I pray that the neocons are finally stripped of power in 2008. Islam poses a threat to the liberal ideology that has been developing in the West since the Enlightenment, but I am afraid for my children and their children if we decide that the neoconservative is the appropriate position from which to fight that threat. Thanks for your reply, and I hope I was able to clarify where I'm coming from.

Coach and Lauren,

Thanks for putting the "Terrorist Awareness Project" information on the site today. I'm sure you put on your thickest armour as you knew it would be controversial. Glad you both have thick skin...it's a true sign of character by holding fast to what you believe and being able to take the hard and fast shots coming from the 'blind-side".

The struggle between Good & Evil is really what this represents.

Those who follow God and his word, versus those who do not follow God, and are manipulated by evil to pursue one goal.

Islam is not a peaceful religion, and if any of your intelligent clients who post would take time to read the Quran, they would quickly figure it out...especially by the time they get to Sura (book) 9.

I will not explain myself any further, but instead hope even one person takes the time to read it and fully absorb the "inherent" evil this religion produces.

Studying Mohammed's life alone, especially in contrast to Jesus Christ's is enough to show you the basic struggle God lays out in Genesis between God's Chosen People and the Arabs.

It's a beautiful story, and in the end God wins, but the whole purpose of all of this is to acknowledge that he exists!!!!

Until, all of us really smart people grasp that simple concept, there will always be the struggle for either Satan's or God's attention.

Free will is a beautiful thing!

Heather,
So sorry for your loss. My heart and prayers go out to you. Joshua will not be forgotten!
Stay strong, be proud.

#37 Matt Hunt,
Pope Urban II called, he said he wants his crusades back.

You do make one point I agree with, that free will is a wonderful thing, and there are varieties of it worth wanting. The rest of your post frightens me(specifically the context through which you view the current conflict).

"Those who follow God and his word, versus those who do not follow God, and are manipulated by evil to pursue one goal."
I'm speechless.

It's not mere coincidence that virtually all terror attacks around the world are initiated by Muslims.

The multiculturalists who watch these videos and react with shock and horror to the suggestion that Islam is not a religion of peace need to wake up and study the Koran and the life of Mohammed. The jihadis have not hijacked a peaceful religion. They are the ones who have got the teachings of the prophet right: namely, kill anyone who does not submit to Islam; that it is perfectly ethical in Islamic doctrine to lie, cheat, steal, rape and murder so long as it promotes the spread of Islam, and that it is the duty of all Muslims to spread Islam by any means necessary.

I find it amusing that folks are offended by the "anti-muslim" bias. During WWII we were anti Japanese and changed the names of our dogs from German Shepherds to Alsatians. It's easy for me to dislike a culture that wants me dead. I'm sure their are moderates and peace loving Muslims, but the fact remains that until the jihadists are destroyed Americans are threatened by them. I hope we don't create more Jihadists in doing so, and fully support hearts and minds approaches, but these folks must be eradicated.

RunnerX, Photoman, Josh K, Marshall et al.
On behalf of David Horowitz, let me apologize that his videos were not up to the standard set by "An Inconvenient Truth." You guys are missing the point. There are millions of people who want to obliterate your way of life, and they wanted that long before it was even on our radar, and you guys are worried about the quality of the videos seeking to wake people up to that fact.

I quote Dennis Miller, "we are in the fight of our lifetime". The video was trying to show that it is more than a hand-full of extremists in the mountains of Pakistan that will not rest until the world submits to their Allah or is beheaded. I am sorry, but I have read for myself in the Koran that all those who do not convert to Islam are to be beheaded. I really didn't want to believe it either, especially since I have a very good Muslim friend. To all the left out there, would you like Sharia or freedom? I like my freedom of religion and from oppression. If the world went like the Islamic theocracies, there would be a lot of decapitated Jews, Christians, Atheists, Liberals and every other Infidel. It isn't just Palestine they want, they want the world.

While my post will not be useful to some. If you believe that a Muslim cannot serve god or be “good,” you may want to skip this.

Khaled Abou El Fadl wrote "The Great Theft" and therein passionately describes both an endless number of interpretations of Islam, as well as his own. If you google his name, you will see conflicting reports on him. If you judge him without reading what he wrote, you cheated yourself. I could care less about him as an individual, but the concepts elucidated in his book are very powerful and quite relevant to the posts here.

An example of the scope of Islam – he attests he has over 50,000 texts, many of them multi-volume, each filled with interpretations of Islam, all written prior to the 18th century. If someone tells you or writes “Islam says” or “A 10th century Muslim wrote” or any of that, take it in context. Do you have any doubt that you could match these quotes, if you scoured the books, with hate filled BS from any flavor of believer?

In the “Great Theft,” he takes the theological fight to the enemy, his enemy and ours we find, which he refers to as Puritan Islam. He makes a good case for why a human would find this interpretation appealing and what can be done to oppose the spread of Puritan Islam.

He makes the case plainly and with passion for how to be a good Muslim and be compatible with modernity. I am not a Muslim, but I was quite moved by the beauty of what he describes. The lesson learned for me was simply that there's nothing about Islam that would stop the spark of goodness, and drive for life and beauty, that most of us have to a greater or lesser degree, from finding expression through Islam. I have long believed we use religion to helps us meet our own needs. I believe that a Muslim can use their faith to find the goodness of life, to find a path to righteousness.

A significant point of the book is that you and I have more in common with him, and he with us, than either has with the death loving, 7th-century-interpretation-worshipping Puritan Muslims.

Another example of the moderates in the fight: In Yemen, a Muslim leader has accepted a mission from the govt to 'reform' returning and often battle hardened Jihadis. His approach was/is this simple – he sits down with the Quran and the two of them and discusses Islam. He points out, for example, that the Quran says over 100 times that Muslims cannot kill Christians, and only once that they can (in a specific context), and asks why the Jihadi would pick the once over the 100+? Inevitably, the Jihadi did not know about the 100+, and feels betrayed when realizing how the message has been distorted.

I will cite one example of the conflict in the accounts of what Mohammad 'said.' Keeping in mind there are six Sunni and two Shia version of the sunna (the sunna are reports of things that the Prophet and his companions did, of which the hadith, quotes attributed to Mohammad, are a subset). He describes a story in which a man comes to Mohammad complaining that his daughters have converted to Christianity and he wants to force them to be Muslim. Mohammad forbids it saying “There is no compulsion in Islam.” The significance of telling a 7th century Bedouin head of household that he cannot tell his daughters to do something must not be ignored in understanding this story. Why then do the Puritans ignore this simple example? Great question, answered well in the “Great Theft.”

A dark spirited person, who lives according to hate, fear, envy, anger and shame, can find a way to express the same through Islam. If you felt compelled to, you might even be able to try some comparative analysis and see which faith tradition has the most hate filled anger filled speech in it. For me, this is an exercise in waste. There are good and bad people of all faith traditions. The fact that the Muslim tradition is struggling to reform itself right now but has not yet done so shouldn’t be cause to throw the ‘baby out with the bathwater.’ There are some Muslims that want to kill us, and we should kill them as rapidly as possible. Timothy McVeigh wanted to kill us and ignite a revolution – we killed him too late.

Why does the Middle East create more shamed, helpless, hopeless souls willing to pursue death over life? Look at their governments, which universally sustain themselves by brutal repression. How bad are their governments? An Arab citizen of Israel has more civil rights than an Arab citizen of any existing Arab nation. Some will say “That’s the way Arabs are.” I don’t buy that. I work with Arabs every day and they have the same love of live that I have, despite growing up in a place as dark and repressed as Iraq.

My pitch – if you give in to the urge to simplify, you wind up throwing all Muslims into the same group. This is poor analysis. Of the 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, that analysis creates enemies where none exist. Making a billion enemies we don’t have now is not a winning strategy.

I humbly suggest that our mission is to ruthlessly, persistently, kill those who plan to do us harm. Secondarily, we should influence the governments of Muslim nations to reform towards liberty, towards open markets, to make it possible for a man to purchase capital and apply it in the market to with confidence that it will neither be stolen or taxed, such that he can use his ingenuity and drive to feed his family and give his children options he did not have. Men who live as free men will outgrow their shame. They will not so easily fall prey to a puritan faith that transforms helplessness and shame into hatred and death. Muslim nations, right now, cannot make such a shift rapidly, as they would disintegrate. We must find ways to assist them in stability such that they can allow freedom.

If you judge me naïve, well, there’s no arguing that. Nonetheless, this is a solution that is aligned with the principles of our nation and which offers a path to progress.

Going to be patient and wait for approval and posting of my epistle this time vice the "damn it got lost" double post ...

Good thing the bad guys could never make a propaganda movie about the infidels. Good thing that we, as infidels, are always busy doing the right thing. I am not trying to be funny but let me see if I got this right: If a loosely organized group of people kill in the name of their god we call it terrorism and call them cowards and kill them. If a highly organized group of people kill for what they believe in we call it war. Interesting spin either way; I wonder what side of the coin the Native Americans fell on when we infidels were busy “making them civilized” and shoving our God down their throats under threats of violence? Regarding the video on Jihad: suffice it say that that is the stupidest bit of propaganda I have seen in a while, I hope the freshman that made it got at least a “c” or better on the project.
Too bad this whole thing has so many shades of gray. We are in a war/occupation with no clear signs of victory and those of us who want our soldiers out (and never wanted them in) get our values and patriotism questioned if we speak out even though supporting our troops and supporting the occupation of Iraq can be viewed as mutually exclusive. I notice many of the posts that speak out against the war always add that the troops are supported (and they are I am sure) but it is too bad those caveats are required in this land of free speech and debate.

Hey Conscience, regarding comment 16. Are you dull? If the coach puts up a topic for debate and asks us to leave comments how are we suppose to interpret that as a time for mourning? And you could not be more right when you say common sense is not common, (knowing wink).

Regarding post 30 for Kinner…GET THE CONCEPT II AS NO OTHER WILL DO (hey that rhymes) they have an awesome piece of equipment and the website will blow you away after you sing in and get to the users page. Spend the extra money and you will be very very happy. Had mine for a year+ and they are virtually maint. free and sturdy as heck.

Regarding the video: PLEASE oh PLEASE make a crossfit calendar (men need not apply)

Lastly: I wonder how God feels about all the killing in His name? Makes me ask the question: Who Would Jesus Bomb?

Is it just me or do overhead squats seem easier for girls. Every guy we've seen so far in videos seem to struggle on the way down and I am one of them. Is it because of their lower center of gravity or is there something else?

What apolloswabbie said. Very well put.

Although I disagree in principle with even religious moderates, it is a far better world than one with zealots and puritans(of any faith).

Howdy,
Yesterday's Work
{Ride(Airdyne) 2 miles at level 6 (5:30); PCJ 60kgx2x5, 70kgx2, 80kgx2, 90kgx1x2, 95kgx1; then (100kgx1x12; 15:00); and sit-up (+24.5#'s)x40 (1:55)}.
Bdw. 84 kgs...

Apolloswabbie,

EXCELLENT post. I will add that one of my most treasured and read and reread books in the whole world is "Wisdom of the Idiots", by Idries Shah. It is a collection of Sufi teaching stories. The beauty of them is that they can all be parsed any number of ways, and whatever meaning you pull from it, that helps you on your path, is right, in my view. And you can continue pulling from them. I was thinking about one this morning.

I'm sure I'll be back for the arguing/debating, but wanted to stay positive for the moment.

Heather,

I met your husband, and downed a few beers and a few shots with him. I can see why you loved him, and why you are now justifiably proud of him. I don't know if it's true that all wounds heal, but they become easier to carry with time. I will add that CrossFit has always been very beneficial emotional therapy for me. It is a microcosm of pain that--unlike the larger world--is always manageable, and which leaves you stronger. Hang in there.

Annie,

Wow.

We need to stop referring to religious terrorism as "Jihad".
That is a term of honor within the Islamic community, the equivalent of calling someone a 'martyr'.

"Religious Terrorist" or "Murderers" are better description.

#13, RunnerX,

"Yes, if Al Qaeda could rule the world, they would chose to, and do so in a horrific manner. So would any other religious fundamentalist group."

Is there some other religious fundamentalist group posing anywhere near the same threat as Al Qaeda that is also trying to rule the world?

That video was a bunch of propagenda crap.
This whole terrorism thing is getting so old, like the black vs. white debate.
The funny thing about all of this is that if the people in those so called "Jihadist" states were to make a video of the violence done to them by the US, Great Britian, or Israel for military or political reasons, it would be 10000000000000 times longer with millions of dead and complete destruction of their ways of life.
It seems to me that the West has already started a holy war on these people, but since we the "holy of holiest societies" say we are protecting ourselves, it somehow changes the way the typical american sees it.
Those images serve their purpose though. To spread fear wether real or perceived. Just like Goldstein in Orwell's 1984, the hordes of Eurasia are always marching and massing against Oceania, but somehow as the modern day script writers change their stories and facts on a daily basis we also just throw things down the memory hole and forget about it.

It is interesting but I am afraid that the truth would reveal that most of the "Jihadist" are or were trained and funded by our own military/government. Of course history will bear out the truth of our current situation, just as we know the truth of Pearl Harbor and the Gulf of Tonkin.

I know that the majority of people in Muslim countries are just ordinary people who want to live in peace.

Have a good rest day.

First thought....the video is a symptom of a certain strain of myopia that many Americans share with every other people around the world. America, just like every nation will not survive or prosper on guts, heart, or conviction that it is on the side of good against evil. It will survive by being very, very smart and by using its tremendous military and economic advantages intelligently.

Second thought....many of the terrorist attacks were on American soldiers and the bases at which they are stationed around the world (particularly in the Middle East and Latin America). Why is the American military in all of these places? The British were attacked in the outposts of their empire as were the French, the Spanish, the Ottomans, the Austrians etc. Why doesn’t America exercise more discretion in the use of its unequalled military force? Why doesn’t it attempt to convince enough people of other nations that it is a nation worth following? Why doesn’t it provide a real example of an alternative to extremism? Right now the alternatives America offers are "being bombed into the stone age" or being humiliated by foreign military occupation or a combination of both….in perpetuity.

Third thought….we need to listen, listen to each other and to the rest of the world. Those videos do not appeal to anyone’s ability to listen or to understand. They appeal to our abilities to act, act now, act boldly decisively, manly, heroically, stupidly, without justice and ultimately, to act fatally.

#53 Hari:
"Is there some other religious fundamentalist group posing anywhere near the same threat as Al Qaeda that is also trying to rule the world?"

The Jews?

(ok, now I'm trolling)

Bush and the fundamentalist Christians perhaps? See Matt Hunt above.

Paul- another great post.

Andy Shirley- You have breifly touched on religeon in the past and today and I think that you have many good points. If you had the time to go more in depth I, for one, would like to hear your thoughts.

Quite a few rest days ago I posted a question as to why good Muslims aren't policing their own. I did get a reply through email. The reply said that they are educating from within the Mosques and talking with the youth. That was good to hear! The same as what Apolloswabbie said above that is going on in Yemen. It takes time.

The lure of the dramatic is intense and very attractive to the youth of the world. If the promise that is being made to the radical Islamist, by other radical Islamists, is a beautiful Heaven and an end to all the hardship and suffering here on Earth, than how do you counter that? Through education.

CHB- You ask why was our military there in other countries all around the world. Simply put, other countries ask us to come for support or for training of their military, etc. Just because our military is in a country doesn't mean that we want to take it over or we have alterior motives. You mention myopia in reference to the videos, but you used the same myopia when asking a bunch of questions about our military presence in the world.

Kate

Kate 57

The US is not very discriminating with regard to whose military it'trains' or 'supports'...and then it goes on 'training' it and 'supporting' forever.

Couple more thoughts.

This video, clearly, is intended to incite emotions. We see the effects of this sort of effort in the Comments. However, please keep in mind, that that tone is not only entirely acceptable within the Muslim world at large, in public media, in pronouncements by the equivalents of Robert Schueller and Joel Osteen; by and large, it is the universal CONTENT.

Imagine Coach has posted a video calling on all of us to kill the Jews, the descendants of apes and pigs. It's pretty clear to me that most leftists--even, and perhaps especially the Jewish ones--have an anti-Semitic bias, and tend to favor the pronouncements of liars with a long history of lying on the Arab terrorist side. But surely even so Jews, constituting a minority, would still constitute a group worth defending? Right?

Given that, is it not hypocritical to ignore the mass saturation of the Arab world, in all media forms, of anti-Semitic propaganda far worse than what he has here, while condemning him for creating a video which by and large does nothing other than repeat some of the content of that anti-Semitic media saturation?

There is no question that content of this type is acceptable and mainstream throughout the Arabic speaking world. Now, just as you can't judge the American people by our media, you likewise can't judge that of the Arab speaking world. The silence of the ulema has been conspicuous, but Apolloswabbie has found at least a couple examples of internal Islamic efforts to reclaim their religion. The current crop of Islamofascists are not actually practicing--from what I can tell--the doctrines promulgated by the Prophet. They are actually much closer to Communists, and we--the West--therefore share a common enemy with True Believers (in the best sense) in trying to protect what is decent and true in the human race. The Prophet always intended for "People of the Book" to more or less get along. We are at least cousins, theologically.

Second thought: a word that keeps popping into my head is sustainability. Somewhat ironically, perhaps, for some, I've been tasked at work with learning about building Green Buildings. The keyword is sustainability.

Now, in our war with those who want to harm us, who take Osama Bin Ladens word over that of the Prophet, we need to use military force. That is clear. However, there are clearly points of diminishing returns. There are points of unsustainability.

This is an argument that many critics of our effort in Iraq make, that in creating terrorists faster than we can kill them, we have created a feedback loop which will expand the energy needed to contain the "reaction" unendingly until the price which needs to be paid, can no longer be paid. We are told our "empire" will end, with the presumably salutary result of Chinese Communist--and perhaps newly revitalized Russian-- ascendancey, since as we all know they have no poverty or racism, and never engage in imperialism, or anything awful like we do.

However, diplomatic, and cultural efforts can play an important part here. We seem to have not taken the importance of these as seriously as we ought to have, but that seems to be changing. Efforts like that can be extended as long as a friendship can last: a lifetime.

We have many friends in Iraq, but there are a lot of people who wish us ill, either directly, or as a result of our interfering with their desired war with their fellow recipients of the Quran through the Prophet's recitation.

This is a complex situation, and I don't have time to say more now, but there are few problems in this world that steady persistence and behavioral and perceptual flexibility and accumen will not solve.

denver sheepdog,

let me apologize for not believing there are "millions" of people who want to see me dead or not living "my way of life." are you really that afraid? critiquing the quality of a video is part of my considering the source approach to listening to ideas. if the sources are crap then the ideas generally are too.

for the record, i thought The Inconvenient Truth was boring but at least offered some hope. have you seen it or are you afraid of that too?

i really should be resting ;-)

Hey I have a question. When ever we do a lot of air squats my hamstrings tighten up to the point that it actually pulls on my lower back. Now I have had a couple trainers (my mma coach who is ACSM and another who is crossfit cert) look at my form and told me that I was fine. The ACSM trainer perscribed that I substitue the amount of Air Squats by doing a trade off of weighted squats with my KettleBells, also she told me to amp my yoga practice to twice a day after workouts that are leg intensive.

What is the history of this type of soreness? Is this due to the hipflexors not being used to the repeditive motion of the squat? The Yoga has made all the difference in relieving the discomfort the next day and preparing me for the next workout but I wanted to get the groups take on this.

Anyone else experiencing this type of discomfort the day after a intensive leg day?

Paul, Thanks to you, I no longer feel it necessary to read the Op-Ed section of the NYT. The clarity of your language and thought are first rate. I seriously think you have a future in public life.

Appoloswabbie, that was an awesome post, and I completely agree with you. We need both a policy of preventing future terrorists from being made as well as killing those too far gone, and being blinded by the assumption that Islam is inherently an evil religion makes that job much more difficult.

With regards to the idea that the West has done great harm to the Muslim world and thus these attacks are somehow understandable, or even justified, that is baloney. Yes, they certainly have their own narrative of the West as a whole being at war with them, as some believe that Islam as a whole is at war with us. Anyone who studies Muslim or Middle Eastern history knows that. The West has certainly made many mistakes in the Muslim world. That does not mean that the West doesn't have the right to defend itself now against those who will its destruction, and it does not mean that it is OK or even understandable for Islamic extremists to kill Westerners who had nothing to do with any of those decisions. Should the West rather decide that Islamic terrorism against it is justified, therefore it should disengage from the rest of the world, ponder its sins, and whenever there is a terrorist attack, just turn the other cheek?

No question the US needs to improve its PR in the rest of the world. Soft power is important (of course hard power is too.) But it would be fantasy to think that pulling US forces out of the Middle East would convince Zawahiri that the US is really the Great Angel and no longer deserves to rot in hell. The Wahabbi extremists don't think that even modernist Muslims or Shiite Muslims are Muslim enough to merit preserving their lives, so no matter what concessions we make, the Islamic extremists will still have more demands and plenty of reasons to kill us. A policy of improving relations with the Muslim world may prevent future attacks, but will not dismantle Al Qaeda or Hamas or Hezbollah or the Iranian government. Those threats need to be dealt with right now. As the threats progress, they make the job of improving relations with the Muslim world and creating a modern, liberal(in the traditional sense) Muslim world much more difficult.

Why are Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Al Zawahiri not dead yet? We really need to get on that.

#56, Andy,

You see religious perspective Matt Hunt (#38) as posing a threat similar to that of Al Qaeda?

Comment #33, Josh

"As for that last quote, people like Josh are the reason you have the right to type such drivel. You embarass me with you're opionion. The opinion of the protected. Next time you spout of like that, think....because you may be offending the very people who gave you the right to say it."

I like quotes like this. Nothing more than childish attempt at "protecting" the dignity of service members like myself. Look at what you're saying about Josh and how you've profaned his service and the service of others. NO ONE, not I nor the millions of other service members, police, firefighters, lawyers or politicians gave the right of free speech. In the philosophy of our country, free speech is a right that surpasses any laws of man.

My gods people, argue the subject of the speech. Do not say a man should not speak at all. What good is all this freedom the gods grant us if it's seen as abhorrent to use the freedoms?

As for the two videos, I'm not able to view them, so I won't comment. Apolloswabble had the best comment thus far in my opinion.

Jihad Timetable according to Dr. Patrick Sookhdeo Britrish Defense College professor. He holds doctorates in Oriental, African and Islamic studies and is a former Muslim.
2000-2003-Provoke the West into conflict
2003-2006-Period of recruitment
2007-2010- Spread of attacks throughout the Middle east and against Isreal
2010-2013-Collapse of goverments in the Middle East and end of Western influence in the region.
2013-2016-Declaration of Caliphate. Finally a period of "Total Confrontation" betwen Muslims and non-Muslims

Great OHS by Annie. I did this last night and apparently did the "Female" version of it since I used 65 pounds.

But I do have a question for everybody, not just a complaint on Annie (who I know would woop me in most things):

Since when did pullups involve a massive neck extention to get the chin as high as possible to clear the bar? A pullup is a "neck-down" workout when the end point being the elbows crossing the mid-coronal plane of the body and the head rising entirely above the bar. All the kicking around is futile if a full pullup is never completed. Quality first then quantity.

No crazy neck extension is needed if done correctly. If so, then those ladies that wear the rings around their neck (in Africa?) have us all beat.

Respectfully,

Addiroids

Heather,
Military wives are so often overlooked as heroes. The strength, commitment, dedication, fidelity and fortitude that it takes to be a military wife are unparalleled and many women can't handle it. So while we celebrate your husband's life and honor his sacrifice, I salute you for all you have done for our country. I hope that you find peace and comfort through this difficult time. You are a true American hero.

Respectfully,

Garth

Hi Kate,

I think the email you mentioned may have been mine - although your earthlink address said my email was kicked back.

Here's a link to an interesting example of a Shia theologian discussing the failings of leadership within Islam. This is the 2nd I've seen of this general message. It goes to your comment regarding 'where's the moderate voice?' which I'm sure many have wondered about.

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1363wmv&ak=null

Thanks and thank you for another good post.

CHB - deciding who to support and train in exchange for access and influence from/to that nation is never an exercise in moral purity. Also note that when nations ask the U.S. to leave - aka Saudi Arabia - the U.S. leaves.

There are those who spoke to the impact on the Middle East that the West has had - wars, occupation, meddling, etc. There is no question that U.S. and other western influence was a negative in this region, as was Soviet influence. The shame of the region, that they are so weak as to be influenced by both Western and Communist influences, is part of the over-riding psychology. Many view the present govts as a continuation of the dominance of the west disguised as 'an Arab govt.' A question to ponder is how could a Western power guide or assist a repressive regime towards less repression without changing so rapidly as to destroy the regime, leading to chaos? Alternatively, if it was your choice to make, would you recommend the U.S. totally withdraw and let other actors provide uncountered influence?

And yes, "Annie, wow." Friggin' strong.

Paul

CHB- I disagree, the military doesn't go on training in some countries forever. Missions end. Each country that we go to (which I will point out, that the government arranges through diplomatic means) gives us different benefits, just like we give them different benefits. You make it sound like we are forcing modern colonialism down the throat of the world.

russ green- "Why are Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Al Zawahiri not dead yet? We really need to get on that."

I guess we'll get on it when Pakistan lets us in to do it or takes care of the problem themselves.

Kate

Paul-
for a while I was not posting my full email address because some jerk was sending me hate mail. I have started putting my full email back up since I have better filters in place now.

Kate

#52 - great point, thanks. For the majority of Islamic tradition, jihad means "critical introspection." Yesterday, I saw a western interpretation of why jihad is important to the Muslims: "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman

I've read Horowitz's article on Jihad, and it is SPOT on. People have been fed a lot of political correctness regarding Islam. Islam itself (true, to-the-letter Islam) is not a peaceful religion. This is referred to as Fundamental Islam, and is followed by more people than you'd believe. However, watered-down versions of Islam don't believe the same things. So if you're a Muslim who doesn't believe in Jihad, destroying the Jewish nation and race, and killing all infidels unless they submit to Islam or pay the poll tax and subject themselves to being a Dhimmi, then you may call yourself Muslim, but you are *not* following Islam to the letter.

Jean Luc, It's possibly center of gravity but also flexibility and balance. An element of flexibility is mechanics - for example, my achilles tendon is relatively short, and when squatting I have to focus on keeping my weight back and on my heels or I exceed my ankle ROM and wind up on the balls of my feet - precarious when under a heavy squat or doing OVDH squats. To work on this, I've been paying particular attention to my air squats done in warm up daily, and making sure I squat to my heels to learn that different balance point. Seems to be helping, but I'm never going to get the depth, for example, that Nicole does in OVHD squats, (that's incredible). Interestingly, in the photo someone linked to the other day of the Dan Johns article on OVHD squats, he appears to be wearing shoes with some kind of wedge under the heel, which would help compensate for the ROM issues. You could try these lifts in combat boots, for example, and see if that helps. Long term, you'll gain and/or maintain flexibility through this work.

Heather reading your post (the first post of the day) really floored me. I am so sorry for your loss and respectful of your sacrifice. I have no idea or understanding of what you are going through but I pray there is peace for you in the future. I thanked Coach Glassman Monday for repeatedly putting a face on the names of those that have fallen. He honors them as we should honor them.

Now that little bit of "information" in the form of a slide show was an all new level of generalizations, jingo-logic and historical inaccuracy...Carl Rove would be proud. It’s amazing how a complex and multifaceted problem can be reduced to a play to fear and historical revisionism. I could really care less how slick or sexy the presentation was; it’s the awful content and character of the material that is suspect.

Fear and the propagation of that fear have kept us in the dark ages for the past 5 years. It has affected our democracy by fundamentally reducing ability to rationally converse and argue in the true sense of the word. These presentations are more of the same.

Ricky
Richmond

next time....perhaps.

ricky

On CrossFit:

CROSSFIT: YOU CHECK YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR, NOT YOUR BALLS.

I believe some of you need to reconsider Pilates and Yoga.

The fact that you are bent about people barfing shows me you are to squeemish about competition.

This is "ALPHA" fitness. This means it ackowledges that life is governed by the rules of the Jungle. Crossfit is about using exerecise protocals to give you a physical and mental edge.

That does not mean you are necessarly an "ALPHA" in all you do or even in personality, however if you have "fire in the belly"...Looks to me that CrossFit is for you.

If you are doing CrossFit to achieve "Balance" or "harmony"...you came to the wrong place.

Every workout is about a fight...sometimes you win...sometimes you lose...sometimes you should have never got in the ring.

On Rest Days:

The little I know Coach (even less about Lauren)...this I have garnered.

1. They care about results and values not opinions.

2. They do what they do with all of this explosion known as "Crossfit" with a belief system that they are "on to something" that is bigger than just a "beach-body".

3. Rest days discussions are a chance to push into people's brains and find out what a person is made of. Unlike the other 3 days, where one can post complete crap and no one has to be the wiser...you sack up and venture out into the deep-end of REST DAY and give a take, you have to back it up or you are dismissed.

4. It is easy to be on the LEFT side of many of these topics. One just has to regress into the comfortable place in your brain that embraces uetopia. Ignore reality, and play pretend that talking, wealth-redistrobution, and hive-mind will lead to Fairness and Happiness.

5. Lauren and Coach have set up a free-system, that manages to get A LOT of people well paid. And even more people get to use it without paying a dime. It is a WIN-WIN.

In the true nature of American Values and Capitalism they have created a "Being that now has a life of its own", but make no mistake it is programmed to "think" a certain way.

6. This is my last but most relavant point.

YOU, do not get to define or redefine Crossfit to suit your squeemishness. For two rest days now I have seen post regarding Puking and Topics on Rest Days. These post talk about how the Glassman's should not promote that about Crossfit.

They talk about how embarrased they are for their friends to see it.

Got some news for you...DON'T expect it to change.

You get what you paid for...Warts and all.

On Muslims:

Don't care one way or the other. I don't care about the religion per say, other than how it is barbarically being distorted or practiced. I don't know which it is, nor do I care. If the people in the the Islamic "World" are truely peaceful, than they have an obligation to fix it.

However, seeing as how they aren't, THEY HAVE MADE THEIR PROBLEM..... MY PROBLEM!!! So at that point I don't care what they think about how I (we) solve THEIR PROBLEM.

On the Left:

Since the political Left in this country has been all of "negative percent" helpful in solving this problem...They need to sit in the corner and color.

I watched Senate Armed Services Chairman SEN Levin(D), within one day, say we need to get out of Iraq, yet some how fight off the IRANIAN and SYRIAN weapons and fighters coming into Iraq. My head spun around in confussion.

I am hearing SEN Murtha (D) brag about his plan to keep reinforcements from going to the AO.

I have read the most hateful things Written about the Vice President yesterday, because an assasination attempt FAILED.

I watched a left-wing add demanding the President Bush stop the Violence in DARFUR...WTF!!! Yet, we are supposed to get out of Iraq!!!

You left-wing guys take all...

I swear if you had your way:
-WE (which would include few, if any, leftist by the way) would be in Darfur right now, under-funded.

-WE (which would include few, if any, leftist by the way) would be out of Iraq, yet somehow stopping the influx of Weapons and Fighters from getting into Iraq.

-WE (which would include few, if any, leftist by the way) would be prepared to fight Iran, but not let it be clear to Iran that we would do so.

-WE (which would include few, if any, leftist by the way)would have more Troops in Iraq...or would it be less?

-We (which would include few, if any, leftist by the way) would be giving away our personal wealth to the rest of the world, who would still blame us for their problems.

We would fall under the rule of a benevolent dictator (Rockstar) because they really "understand" us. (Castro, Che, Carter, Clinton)

I have never seen so many people ready to Corinate "Ruler For Life Status" on Political Leaders. Particularly idf those leaders "Say" the right things, regardless if they currently believe do them or not.

Shut up and sit down.

No, your actions are not treasonous, they are just irresponsible and opportunistic.

You constant griping about that which you would not even attempt, is disgusting.

On the Videos:

Simplistic?.... yes.

Professionally done?...perhaps (I don't have the skills to do better)

Relevant?....Definately

Did it get the Anti-Semites and those far left of me riled up?....YES

Overall they get a B+

On Horowitz...

Dude is a former 60's COMMUNIST...he was all-in with every radical group out there.

He has shunned that worldview...which is why you can find so many leftist "hit peices" on him. This is also why the Neo-Cons are hated, as a group, by Leftists. The only thing worse than a conservative is a conservative that used to be a lunatic Leftist.

For these two reason alone: I WANT TO PARTY WITH THAT GUY!!!

I find it Ironic that he is accused of trying to quell free-speech. When he supported that idiot out of CU to not be fired for things he said outside the classroom. rather, he needed to be fired because he was an academic fraud.

Horowitz helped establish a "Bill of Rights for Students" at 2 Universities and many more will follow. This gives Students a Grevance mechanism to report Professors/Instructors who are trying to INDOCTRINATE rather than teach without fear of retribution.

As a victim of this myself, I am all for it.

At a rate of 7 to 1, University Professors admit to being Liberals vs Conservatives....

On Nazis...

It is a fact that these Jihadist have a solid foundation and lineage to Hitler and Musolinni.

Yes, at times America, for lack of a better altenative, has supported groups and factions to ensure National Security Interests. "You win some,and you lose some."

Of, course when the Political Left is in power they just give in. "You lose some, and You lose some."

On Marshall:

I want to make something very clear...I highly recommenned that you NEVER say comments like this around service-men.....

"It is partly, albeit indirectly, the rampant, irrational, fear and paranoia displayed in those videos that sent Josh, and thousands of others, pointlessly to their deaths"

Josh and the others did not pointlessly die.

You should be very careful of how you use your "right" to free speech. That is the kind of thing that makes me and others forget that your "rights" are what we fight for.

I can tell you that your flippant comment trips a very deep and violent chord in my psych. My seriousness, and soberness, of how I view the world allow me to look past your comments today and other days.

However, rest-assured, your elitest attitude has not gone unnoticed.

Matt, that was spoken like you've been to a Wahhabi school; what gives? You been sneaking out of the country for some madrassa time?

If you could see the smile on my face it might sound more like the joke it's intended to be, but the non-joking question is, why would you accept David Horowitz's interpretation of what Islam really is? Muslims have been arguing about that since about 632 and they don't agree on what it is any more than Christians agree on what the 'right' version of Christianity is. I question that Horowitz has stumbled across the 'true Islam' so easily.

SSG Hager,
May Saint Peter greet you with a Warrior's Welcome into Paradise.

Today:

Gut-Check tribute workout for our fallen comrade:

"Josh" as Rx'd
12:49

folowed by:

4.25 mile run - 30:31

followed by:

"Cindy"

GET SOME!

great video. she makes it look so easy

Fundamentals are the problem everywhere. Lets not forget the Fundamental Christian Evangelicals who practice intolerance and hate and even go as far as bombing in our own nation. They're a bigger threat to us, along w/ the neocons in Bush's camp than terrorist.

How embarrassing for Crossfit.

I didn't see a single pull-up in that workout. I always thought these cross-fit workouts seemed a bit ridiculous... only a few people in the country can do ninety "real" pull-ups in 5 minutes. I did my 90 but did them correctly. I think the workouts should be ratcheted down a bit so that more people can actually "do" them, instead of feeling like they need to cheat. Flame away... and thanks.

"the David Horowitz Freedom Project?" That is about the biggest oxymoron I have ever heard.

Hey #78,

I'm a "Fundamental Christian Evangelical" but I don't practice intolerance or hate. The reason I don't do these things is because I follow my religion faithfully--to the best of my ability. This applies to all other FCEs I know.

Are WE the problem? Or are you maybe casting a stereotype.

I was a big-time member of cross-fit member until today. I am forced to boycott as of today until the video posted is removed. How irresponsible and inflammatory. I thought this site was run by people who embrace the scientific method. Please do your research and stop spreading hate. Let's exercise our minds as well as our bodies. Thank you.

#33 Chad,

Why don't you try actually responding to what I said instead of resorting to that tired old ccokie cutter free-speech crap. Are you so US-Centric that you don't realize that the rest of the world enjoys the same freedoms I am expressing right now and Josh had nothing to do with it. Read Nuke-Marine's response for more on that.

Also, don't question my, or my families, prior service to this country, you'd be making incorrect assumptions. Let me ask, where were you on 9/11, and if it wasn't at the WTC, then please, kindly stfu.

Let me repeat myself, most of this country does not want this war and we don't want to pay for it, now and for generations to come. What gives YOU the right to ignore that?

For the ones going on about the specific verses in the Koran, how many of you have actually ever read the FULL bible, or taken a bible study course from someone other than a dude with a penchant for 11 year old boys? How many of you have read the Koran?

#81,
you may be an exception. I don't know how Fundamentalist Christian Evangelicals can be tolerant. I should know, I grew up as one in the very Evangelical state of Colorado. You may not think you practice intolerance and hate but that movement does, and it's not ashamed of it...
bb

On a different note: I'd like to tap some of the fitness expertise on this site. Any ideas for a way to improve high rep pushups in coordination with the Crossfit WODs? From what I understand, long time Crossfitters see big improvements in pullups, good improvements in situps, but only modest, if any, gains in high rep pushups. Is there any way to improve the PU numbers without getting away from the power focus? I realize that in terms of sports and functional use, power is more important than endurance in the chest, but for some reason various fitness evals still focus on high rep pushups, hence my need to improve. I am stuck in the high 60s right now, even though I can do sets of 20-30 all day long. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

David Milch, #82

I can explain why it's hard not to "hate" in one word:

Beslan.

Brought to you by the Religion of Peace.

Warning: Graphic images. Not family or work safe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

http://www.dimapics.com/gallery.php?cat_id=95&action=images&viewtype=&lng=

http://www.beslan-2004.boom.ru/

http://www.dimapics.com/gallery.php?photo_id=806&action=view&cat_id=94&lng=

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1316935651894423094

Lots of love and support to Heather Hager!

Annie omg...

To me the rest article was interesting as a reminder of how many "weirdos" there are out there trying to kill us. It also reminded me of how many weirdos that are living among us, and im not thinking about people of islamic origin...

Gundy, The Army program I tried recommended starting with 3 sets, spread out through the day, every other day, working towards six sets over time. I think the idea was do each set at the max number you can do without 'excess' fatigue. The guy writing the program reported his test subjects exceeded other methods. It helped me add about 10 PU and helped a lot with form. Good luck.

bb,
I don't know about your specific case, or what you currently believe, so I am making some assumptions, but I have some questions regarding intolerance.
Was your life in danger for changing/leaving your faith?
Also, is changing your faith illegal in this country?
I base both of these questions off of a conversation I had a couple months ago with a friend (that is currently a Christian missionary in the middle east). Where he was working, the answer to both questions is "yes".
Based on this, I have a hard time agreeing with you what the bigger threat is.

Marshall,

Precisely how do you make a statement like this: "Are you so US-Centric that you don't realize that the rest of the world enjoys the same freedoms I am expressing right now"

I'm going to go with No. If you know something I don't, please enlighten me.

I've read the New Testament. If you were a Christian, the tone of your post would be unacceptable. Of course, that's a moot point, isn't it? The question then arises--and it is relevant to a number of other posts as well: Is the problem religion per se, or the failure to practice the precepts of one's religion?

Is it not clear that atheism is a belief system competing with all other belief systems for market share, with the dubious distinction of lacking almost entirely any ethical grounding, or clear precepts that could be referred to in condemning an individual's behavior? A system of behavioral falsifibility, which in a religious context is normally called hypocrisy?

It's hard to be a fully consistent Christian, just as it is hard to be a fully consistent Muslim or Jew. Nothing but a belief in unbelief is necessary for atheism, unless I'm missing something.

Certainly I've yet to meet or talk to one who was not hypocritical with respect to their practice of the scientific method.

This is not to condemn atheism per se, but rather to point to the necessity of including it with the very belief systems it dogmatically claims it differs from.

BW 190

20 rounds for time:
3 pull-ups
3 dips

11:12

"#53 Hari:
"Is there some other religious fundamentalist group posing anywhere near the same threat as Al Qaeda that is also trying to rule the world?"

The Jews?"

Andy Shirley, I do not know who you are, or where you are from, nor is that important.

I live (as you can most likely tell by the moniker) in Tel Aviv,Israel. I would like to ask you a few questions: how many times have you been to Israel? How many Jews do you know? Of those, how many have you heard espouse the widespread desire of worldwide Jewry to eradicate the Western way of life? How many Jews have expressed their fervent wish to blow themselves up in their bid to destroy democracy and bring the world under Jewish rule?

To compare the two groups is a joke (and neither a smart nor a funny one at that), and I am sincerely hopeful that what you wrote was misplaced humor, or that your post was intended to call attention to the ridiculous notion that you posit and that others actually believe.

Apolloswabbie - brilliant post. Your words are always worth the reading.

Heather - I am saddened by your loss and can only hope the load of your grief lightens with time.

Josh - May your memory be a blessing.

Ian

Godspeed, SSG

RLTW

Hi Barry,

The question was directed at Chad. But to try and respond to what you said, I'm not sure if you are saying "no, I am you not so US-Centric and I do realize that being 'free' is not US specific", or "no, I think you're nuts to make that statement Marshall", so to clarify...

Who in this world can't utter (maybe not in English) or type the very thoughts I expressed to Chad? In fact, you can probably get an internet connection, and post to this very website from just about every point on this globe, should your financial situation allow it. Furthermore, if you believe that freedom of speech is our god given right, how does that right start and end with US citizenship?

Re: Atheism-

No, it's not clear to me that it's competing with any other belief system. Although I don't know much about Atheism per se, it seems as if you are combining theology with ethics though, and the two don't have much to do with each other IMO.

What is all the protest over propaganda?

Oh. I got it. A good way to rally a nation to war…

“A few people, that are totally crazy, who happen to be a part of the world’s most peaceful religion, attacked a few people. Some people did die in the attack, and it is believed that those people could have possibly been Americans, but it is not completely known yet that the intent was to kill anyone when this man, who has a mental condition, strapped C4 (do they even use C4 anymore?) to his body and ran into the elementary school.

Before we judge, its important to understand not just the culture of the man involved but too understand his personal history. Did he grow up in poverty? Did he receive too much religious training? Did he have an Xbox? Have we as Americans done all that we could to help him adapt? Or maybe we ought to be adapting too him? Have we even asked that question yet?

Now we are considering heading over to his country to ask him if he will come to America to be tried in a court…this would not really be a war…but…”

Man. There is just something about that kind of talk that makes me want to be a warrior!

Barry,

"Nothing but a belief in unbelief is necessary for atheism, unless I'm missing something."

That's pretty much it, yes. Except atheism is not a belief system. It is simply the absence of belief in a god.

Atheism does not claim to offer ethical or moral guidance. There are no principles atheists must follow to be considered atheists, other than disbelief in a god. I understand this may seem strange to those who rely on a supernatural being to tell them how to live their lives, but to imply that atheists are in some way amoral as a group is laughable. There are plenty of sources of inspiration for moral and ethical judgement out there, and faith is not a prerequesite to believing you should not rape and kill.

This is taking us away from today's topic, but I would like to know what you mean by a hypocritical practice of the scientific method, and how that bears any relation to faith or the absence thereof.

svertoa,

i hear ya on the pullups. it's kind of a sore subject with some folks. just make your pullups full range of motion and don't try to beat the times of those who aren't doing them like you. in the end, the only times you really need to beat are your own anyway.
sometimes i think it'd be fun to see my times if i did pullups where only my chin reaches the bar but i'd rather just do it the hard way.

somewhere in the past Coach made an argument for pullups that weren't the full expression of the ROM but goodness knows if i can find it again. it didn't seem consistent with his otherwise good advice. forgive me if i'm wrong here. my memory only serves me so well.

just know it's a bone of contention and do your best.

kipping or deadhang, i pull to my chest at first and then make sure my entire head gets over the bar as i fatigue. otherwise, i don't count 'em.

David #85,
Come and go as you please. But I ask you how presenting a topic, any topic, for open discussion could be irresponsible? The videos were available on the web before today's link, and they'll most likely be available long after. If you (or anyone else for that matter) have good evidence of their falseness, wouldn't this be a good forum in which to present it? All the disagreements on the board today existed before today's discussion. Now they're public and therefore more honest.

Achieving any level of physical fitness requires that you tolerate physical discomfort along the way. We don't do it FOR the physical discomfort, but rather for the result of going through it. Why would mental or political fitness be any different? The "Why can't we all just get along?" approach to politics or life doesn't work today, and from all I've read, hasn't ever worked.

I don't claim to have any real knowledge of these issues, but I have more faith in the information I get from these discussions than from any single news source.

svertoa,

Kipping PUs and traditional PUs are really two different excercises.

When the WOD says PU, it means Kip. If you read it as such, you won't get frustrated trying to compete for time against someone who's doing what essentially amounts to a different WOD than you are.

Thank you for your posts on CrossFit, today and always. I abhor the absolutes that define 'us and them'. Having lived in five different countries with as many radically different belief systems as can be assembled i have discovered a few simple, yet easily overlooked truths:

All of us want to live and fill our lives with living.
All of us want the opportunity to afford our children with a greater reach toward self fulfillment than our parents afforded us.
All of us want in the most profound sense of the word, to give to others, or more precisely, to have the freedoms needed to give freely.

It’s pretty much that simple, and tomes have been written to asses the minutia of each of those points so I will not attempt to do so here.

I have been BarMitzvah'd, I have an Irish Catholic mother, I have lived in a country with a 'state' religion, I have sat in Mosques and in the centers of Evangelical Christianity and heard in very few words the messages I have read above. I have broken bread with a devout member of every major religion on this earth, and only where politics, greed or the cyclical specter of revenge come into play do any of these people look forward with hate and malice. Bar none.

There is no greater cancer than racism, and not one religion is free of that notion. Jews invented stoning, for even the wrong choice of words spoken on the wrong days. Christianity as a whole is responsible for more deaths by violence than any other movement or entity in the history of the world, Islam has been perverted to support greed and hate as has EVERY religion when those with the loudest voice have something to profit.

Education is the key. Our children in a vast portion of this country have been purposely blinded to the meaning of ‘world peace’ or brotherhood from the day they could read. Every body of power on this earth has perverted history and its meanings toward selfish ends. We are as guilty as they, we have carried the red cross of superiority across the Americas, the Philippines, India, Africa, the far east, to the tune of hundreds of million killed. Europeans crushed 60 million plus natives in the new world, many of their civilizations lost due to greed, forever.

Just as we fear and have the right to raise up against the horrors of 9/11, so have the Jews the right to raise up against the pogroms and oppression, so have the Palestinians the right to raise up against Sabra and Chatilla, etc., so have the… when does it end?

The process will only come when we define bravery by the teachings of the ancients that were so blissfully passed onto a young handworker in Canaan.

Who among us is brave enough NOT to fight for what’s wrong? We owe our children more than a legacy of hate.

"Except atheism is not a belief system. It is simply the absence of belief in a god."

This is the conceit of atheists.

I see no way arguments agains the existence of God would not reference your BELIEF that there is no evidence supporting that notion. Other people wake up, see the Sun and sky, and wonder how anyone could doubt it. What makes them wrong?

This is the basic problem with those of a Scientistic bent: they overreach the proper domain of Science. The proper domain of Science is what can be seen. What can be tested. What can be verified. What can be put in a lab. What can be posited--such as the notion that light bends around the Sun--then proven when the technology permits it.

What Science does not, and cannot speak to, is the domain of the non-empirical The domain of the presensory, intuitive information that precedes, epistemologically and logically, the sensory world. The domain of what cannot be placed in a lab, but which still can make claims on Truth.

Of things such as that, Science has no truck. It has no business dealing with issues of theology, because theology is outside the range of Science.

Science does not "prove" things. What it does is make provisional truth claims in the form of verifiable propositions of a general nature. For example, that objects in a vacuum fall at the same speed. This can be verified, and if the supposition is wrong, then different results will be obtained by different people.

This is the point of the scientific method. Theoretically, if a preliterate Zambezi native pushes a button to test something or other, and then reads out the resulting numerals from the test apparatus, it will coincide with the same experiment done in New York or Paris.

This does not make it "true", in a formal sense, merely consistent, and useful.

Prove to me that the speed of light will never change for the duration of the universe, or, to make the question easier, over the next 12 billion years.

Einstein's assumption of light as a constant, of course, is exactly that: a useful assumption. I'm talking proof. C, qua "C", is just a premise, not a conclusion.

Have at it.

In regards to the videos, I think people should look at all the facts before being willing to let one poorly put together presentation lead them. You can't win a war against an ideology with brute force. Terrorism has existed throughout history in one form or another. Maybe we should be more worried about how we are giving more people reasons to become terrorists in the first place. I highly doubt that taking on Iranin a war is going to stop terrorism, and in all likelihood, it will probably make it worse. All I am asking is that people study the history of these places, and realize that people there probably want most of the same things we want.

Chef,

if its satire, your a genius.

if its not, congratulations on holding all positions. its the same as holding none.

Wow - another shocker of a rest-day post.

Kudos to Apolloswabbie for bringing a level head and some genuine insights to the debate. Tough talking "white hat vs. black hat" types take note.

Condolences to Heather.

@Rippletoe: "What does Billy #21 weigh? Just out of curiosity..."

Not defending Billy's comments here, but where are you going with this? That's about as pointlessly Ad Hominem as it gets...

Jay

I'm not taking Horowitz's interpretation, I've read for quite a while on the subject of Islam, from multiple sources, and all say basically the same thing. And all my sources quote the Koran, where the *ongoing* order to all Muslims is to kill the infidel, force them to convert, or force them to submit as a Dhimmi (a second class citizen that must pay a special tax and has very limited rights).

That's the difference between a fundamentalist Christian and a fundamentalist Muslim. A fundamentalist Christian has NOWHERE to turn in the Bible to say "see? God wants me to kill people of other religions" or "God wants me to hate gays". As a matter of fact, the Bible specifically speaks against such things ("thou shall not murder (take innocent life)", "judge not, lets ye be judged yourself", and basically "hate the sin, but love the sinner". We're all sinners, and any real Christian will tell you that in God's eyes, we're all as vile as Osama Bin Laden. And if it weren't for Jesus Christ, we'd stay that way, and there's nothing we can do about it, it's just our nature. But God chose some people and changed their hearts, and those people are Christians. Trust me, I didn't wake up one day thinking "you know what, I think I'll become a Christian today". Rather, God changed my heart, and enabled me to see His Truth.

Matt,

You must be cherry-picking the New Testament when you read the Bible.

Wow.

FYI there is no such thing as atheism, no one has that much faith. I think the more appropriate word is agnostic.

"The domain of the presensory, intuitive information that precedes, epistemologically and logically, the sensory world. The domain of what cannot be placed in a lab, but which still can make claims on Truth."

This seems to me like a premise, not a conclusion. Is it even consistent, or useful?

My lack of belief in a god, just like my lack of belief in the Easter Bunny, does not procede from a thorough application of the scientific method. Let's just say I am unconvinced by evidence of any nature pointing to their existence. It's not really something that keeps me awake at night.

"The domain of the presensory, intuitive information that precedes, epistemologically and logically, the sensory world. The domain of what cannot be placed in a lab, but which still can make claims on Truth."

This seems to me like a premise, not a conclusion. Is it even consistent, or useful?

My lack of belief in a god, just like my lack of belief in the Easter Bunny, does not procede from a thorough application of the scientific method. Let's just say I am unconvinced by evidence of any nature pointing to their existence. It's not really something that keeps me awake at night.

Matt #108

IMO that was the best post today so far. Simple and to the point.

OK, First off the tired old cookie cutter crap is something that was violated on 9\11 AT THE WTC! And they will take more or all if they can. As for me, Yes I guess you could say I am "US Centric" I have seen the hate these people have for us. Up close and personal. It's people like you who are addicted to immediate gratification who think this should be over before it started. You were paying for this war before you were born. And it will be that way for a long time from what I can see. Its not up to you. It started back with the Muslims and Christians of midevil times, not "us" ultra modern and civilized people of today. Of which I'm sure you already know. Seeing as how U.S. soldiers are out beheading people left and right, in the name of Christianity, of course.

The Bible and the Koran. The Bible yes. And i'll admit it was more for education purposes. To better understand my enemy, and where they come from. Islamic fundamentalism. The Koran, a good portion. With a whole lot of help from different "terps" over the years since the WTC. As for where I was at. I was already serving my country. As for you. If you havn't served you're country, but you're familiy has. Well that makes it all ok. Kind of a my dad did it so I don't have to. Right?

No, I won't STFU. Not for a little bit. I have lost more buddies in this war than people you probably knew at the WTC. I'll admit this before you try and attack me on it. I didn't know one solitary person at the WTC. Not one. But I still fight because of what happened to them. I don't fight because of Christianity either, I fight becuase the people we are up agaist are screwed up and they would have brought it to us one way or the other. Whether you like it or not. You need to get that in you're head. They hate us not because we are American, white, British, Western or Christian. It's because we are not Muslim. It's pretty simple on certain levels. Not all mind you.

As for the rest of the people in the world. Like I said before, if you would get off you're couch and get to one of these Islamic countries you know so much about. You would understand free speach, expression or for that matter free anything is a concept that most people in third world countries can't fathom because in countries where there is no one to protect it, the concept is a myth. Regardless of what you think.

WHY DON'T YOU GO OUT AND FIND YOU'RE OWN FACTS. NOT SPOUT OFF ASSUMPTIONS YOU HAVN'T RESEARCHED IN PERSON FOR YOURSELF.

I have to add one more thing, then I'm probably out until tomorrow.

There is a very clear sense I have that a lot of people who are well versed in some aspect of science--and apparently entirely innocent of any knowledge whatever in the fields of sociology, anthropology, psychology, history, and philosophy--feel that the solution to the "problem" of Islam, and religious violence in general, is the elimination of religion.

Pursuant to this belief, they make efforts wherever possible to condemn, criticize, and demonize what they view as the enemy. In my view, this is no different in nature, principle or practice, from Christians claiming that Muslims (or Mormons, depending on your sect) arent' going to heaven, and fighting with them over that. It simply adds one more dimension to the conflict, and even though in practice Secular leftists tend to be more likely to favor Islamic religious terrorists than Christians, in point of fact, the Christians DO have more in common with them, in the sense of having perduring values and beliefs for which they are willing to fight and die. If the Islamists did in fact ever gain power, one of the first things they would do is kill most of those who support them in the name of ending religion. Quite obviously, that isn't the goal.

What is needed, it seems to me, is a genuinely politically liberal perspective which basically says "do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else.", and which restricts the power of the government to protecting ALL beliefs, not just those that appeal to any party anywhere on the spectrum. This would lump intolerant atheists and intolerant Christians in the same group, and keep those of both camps willing and happy to lead free lives they choose, without molesting others, in peace.

We need not have, nor should we have, ANY issue whatever with anyone of any stripe who just wants to do his or her job, go home, then worship camels, a statue of Richard Dawkins in the nude, or Archie and Jughead comics. It's not our concern. This, to me, is the basic goal. It is simple.

People that are not content to leave us alone need to be contained or killed. That's the other side.

This post is a bit piecemeal, but I have to go do something.

Marshall that last one was for you. Sorry got a little caught up in typing. I'm a little passionate.

This is an interesting test.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
And it IS (more or less)on-topic.
People can even post their scores on rest days.
8')
(-6.25, -7.13)
I'll be in the minority w/ my scores.

Barry,

I didn't quite follow your response, sorry. How did what you write relate to how I replied to you or what Ewen said?

Also, the speed of light does change, so I can't prove to you that it won't. We got it down to below the speed limit at Harvard!

People should reread Chep and Peter's posts. I think 103 and 105. Think about those points.

Barry, #104:

Are mathematics and logic part of science? I don't ask in a hostile tone. Your (robust!) views on science and knowledge just interest me.

Thanks!

I wanted to add that my post, #77, was held for review for a while.

Chef...
asking you to back up your numbers about... "Christianity as a whole is responsible for more deaths by violence than any other movement or entity in the history of the world,"

#72 - Appllowswabbie:

Your posts have been very, very good, but no. 72 indicates some study of the history, theory and practice of jihad is in order.

Jihad is sanitized for western consumption as an internal spiritual struggle, and while it may partly be that it not exclusively that.

Jihad was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be violent jihad against the unbelievers until they submit to Allah. If they do not submit or convert they are to be slaughtered.

In the history of Islam tens if not hundreds of millions have been slaughtered in accordance with jihad doctrine, and coincident with the expansion of Islam by violent conquest.

Terror tactics were, are and always will be used by jihadis because the Quran tells them so, and because Mohammed is reliably reported in the hadiths to have reflected that terror was integral to his success.

While there is no shortage of exposition of the nature and centrality of violent jihad to Islamic doctrine, the book "The Legacy of Jihad" by Andrew G. Bostom is an oustanding compendium of secondary and primary sources on the subject. These materials demonstrate beyond meaningful dispute that violent jihad is deeply rooted in Islamic scripture and interpretative literature, and indispensable to the expansion of Islam from a single tribe in Medina to its present 1.5 billion adherents.

The notion that jihad is provoked by anything the west has done or failed to do betrays a fundamental ignorance of the nature, theory, practice and aims of jihad. For example, the Islamic invasions of India, in which hundreds of thousands of Hindus were slaughtered by hand each year - totalling tens of millions in the end - self-evidently had *nothing* to do with the west. ("Hindu Kush," a region in Afghanistan, means "Slaughter of the Hindus"). So the provocation to jihad does not lie with anything we have done or failed to do. Why do they do it? Because Islam commands conquest the world through violent jihad, following the explicit personal example and unambiguous command of Mohammed himself, the perfect and inerrant Messenger.

It just doesn't matter what you do or don't do. All that matters is whether the jihadi's leaders think your religious beliefs meet the requirements of their faith. If they do not, they will seek, until doomsday, to destroy your civilization from within and without.

Now that is not fear mongering. That is just the way it is. It is easily demonstrated by reference to the Koran, the Hadiths, the life of Mohammed. The proof is in the pudding. Islam is as Islam does. The history of Islam proves conclusively that this is true. You could ask the thriving Jewish and Christian communities in the Arab world .... oh wait, there aren't any.

Now, are there muslims who do not sign up for violent jihad? Yes, by far the great part of muslims want no part of violent jihad, and overlook or reinterpret those elements of their faith that command it. Not everyone is a strict believer.

But theological problem for moderates, and our long-term civilazational problem, is that violent jihad is a fundamental precept of Islam that will always be with us and will always draw a sufficient number of adherents to pose a threat to the west. Whether the threat to the West is truly existential as it was at the Battle of Poitiers or at the Gates of Vienna, or quiescent as it was after the break-up of the Ottoman Empire, or resurgent with petrodollars as it is now, merely reflects the ebb and flow of history. The threat may recede but it never entirely disappears, because Islamic scripture from whence it springs and the practitioners willing to carry it out never entirely disappear.

A great many people do not understand the nature, theory or history of jihad. This ignorance is itself a threat to the west. An informed citizen should be informed on this subject.

Best regards,

Harry,

Well put. Another interesting fact that people like to overlook the original crusades began as a result of Muslim conquests of the "holy lands" (Turk Muslims) around 1000 AD. Jihad has been a central battle cry since Islams conception 3 to 400 years before. Something else to note is that the Turks intitially were fighting Arab Muslims for control of the Holy lands and then the Jews and Christians.

Personally i am pro vomit as far as athletics go. Some seen upset or bothered by the idea of vomit and or the quality of the presentations. Which leads me to wonder following a good workout should we puke on Iran, Iraq or the presentations themselves.

ricky
richmond

This is for Chad #114.
I have a couple of questions for you.
You make the comment that you have lost many friends in combat but you did not know anyone at the WTC. First let me take this opportunity to say how sorry I am that you lost loved ones ands friends, may the pain fade with time, I am truly sorry.

I am confused on a couple of points that I think are worth addressing. You say you fight for what happened to the people at the WTC. I would submit that unless yo