Hi CrossFit,

This may be one for the message board, but the comments section seems to get lots of views so I wanted to post here too. I’ve got tendonitis in my right elbow and knee, owing to some overzealous lifting and climbing. I’m wondering how to heal while remaining active. Anyone have experience with this? Email much appreciated. Thanks!

What is with the political postings?

Posting political jabber on a fitness website is like posting "exercise tips" on a political science website. Hm, sounds a little silly, doesn't it?

It's embarrassing for anybody who went to college, regardless of which "side" you're on.

The only way we can lose this war is from our own politica system. The efficacy of our Army and Marine forces, properly deployed with solid ROE, can have the security situation in Bagdad quieted down in about 4-6 months. There will still be car bombs and explosions, but the poplation will overall feel safe and protected from the roving death squads. This will be disasterous news for our patriotic Democratic colleagues in the Congress that are trying their hardest to lose this war as quickly and blamelessly as possible. Too late, we and they will wake up with this battle at our doorstep.

Wowsa, talk about an exercise that I just can't get into, Knees to Elbows. I'd like to think that my height and size contribute to how unpleasant I find it but I really need to do it more often... I liked Brenden's version, which is how I try to do it.

Agreed that properly deployed, The US military cannot lose the military conflict. Trying, however, to get between the warring factions in that "country" is simply impossible as well as a tremendous waste of blood and treasure. The people who will lose this war for us are the politicians and generals who push the insane notion of political reconciliation.

Post #1, Ross:
Self myofacial release. Use a tennis ball, foam roller, golf ball, etc., on the sore spots around the tendonosis. Also, start working on mobility exercises in the hips and IT band. You'll be surprised at the results.
You may also want to watch the enthusiasm on the kipping pull ups. It's what did my elbow in.
Seriously, go to the board and look up SMR and foam rollers, they rule.

Must have missed the memo, what war is the United States involved in? Last I checked, US was assisting a group of nations to overthrow Hussein that went swimmingly. So, if the Iraqis are good friends and allies of the United States, how is there a War in Iraq that the US somehow is fighting? Are we fighting our allies now?

As to the article, he makes a good point. The US has that useless piece of trash called the Constitution that every service members claims to defend but every right wing, US hating, chickenhawk loves to spit upon. That darn Constitution is giving Congress (apparently not under control of the President for some anti-American pro-Constitution reason) control the purstrings of Presidential actions.

So you get the lefties that love the Constitution and hate America and the righties that love America (well, half of it anyway) and hate the Constitution arguing about an imaginary war while thousands are dying in a true conflict that's more complicated than we're allowed to talk about.

How complicated is it? You get guys that supported an invasion of Iraq to free the Iraqis from their leader (despite the fact 1/3 probably liked the Saddam's murderous tactics) now saying killing Iraqis is a good thing. Does not compute.

Frag it, I think I'll do a CFT today.

Love those videos.
Love those CF girls.
The visual on what we are trying to accomplish helps sooooooooooooo much.
Especially after trying the WODs for a few months, without them.
Thanks for the time and effort to share this stuff with all of us out here in the nether regions of fitness USA.
Have a good rest, I suspect we will be getting an opportunity to work on our Knees To Elbows soon.

Does anyone know anything about Gym Jones? Apparently the actors for the upcoming movie "300" trained there to get in shape, but that's the extent of my knowledge.

Annie,
I can't say it enough girl: You Rock! Keep it up!

We're not going to win the war without starting the draft and forcing the best and brightest to serve. Right now we have a lot of people who have washed out of civilian life running the show and running it right into the ground. Officers should have to prove they have what it takes by starting off as E-1 and working their way up the ranks. It is obscene that a 22 year old boy/girl can give orders to an E-7 with 15 years of experience. No wonder we are losing this war.

Comment #8 - The movie 300 is a cartoon. Why did they have to train at Gym Jones to get in shape? Gym Jones is a former Xfit affiliate who claims to be too hardcore for Xfit. The reality is that they took everything the know from Xfit. It is run by a guy who has a big name in the climibing world so he gets away with this crap.

I didn't want to get involved in this because its a pain in the butt to read about the war when I'm trying to read about the wod. But hey Scotty guess what?? The soldiers, sailors and Marines have nothing to do with how the war is going, if anything they are the reason it hasn't completely gone to hell, do some research to find out. You seem to have all the answers though so why don't you just join up? I'm sure the DOD and their 200 some years of experience knows what they are doing with officers and enlisted. I was a Sgt with combat tours in the invasion phases of both OEF and OIF, there are reasons why things are the way they are. If you are/were already in then you're probably a bitter SNCO who has issues with letting younger guys run the show. Easy fix: get a degree and become an officer. Semper Fi, Barbara rocks, rest days are a necessary evil. Looking forward to tomorrow.

I've been really loving the videos lately. Rob Miller and the girls of XFit are always very informative and inspiring.

The links to conservative opinion have really gotten old though. *yawn*

Comment #8, J, there's a thread archived in Pukie's Bucket on the message boards talking about the movie 300 and Gym Jones. It also has a bit about what Scotty wrote as to why Gym Jones cut it's affiliation with CrossFit.

Still, yes, the actors utilized CrossFit techniques adapted by Mark Twight. Being described as "open source", adapting CrossFit is to be expected. Whatever happened, it worked as the actors look in outstanding shape. The movie looks like it'll be awesome to boot.

sorry bout the duplicate, I thought it didnt go through, if anything post the first one. not trying to cause problems but you how it is.

#10, I know several members of this community that are current members of the Armed Services, and your comments are an insult to them and all the other service members putting their asses on the line. These guys are without a doubt the top echelon of human beings and warriors. Without them putting it on the line and training others to do the same we would be in bad shape. You will not fine any brighter or better anywhere in the world.

#8, J-

Do a search on the message board for, "300 movie," or something to that effect. When the first training vids for 300 were posted on the board this topic was discussed... to death.

Dan

Hi folks...

just met Barbara for the first time...What a $#%^&& oh yah and her good friend Mr. Pukie!

Curious...thinking this is a good forum to learn from others...

what types of different active rest activities do all of you do???

looking for different ideas on fun ways to active rest...

intensity/length of time...I know different regions offer different activities. like to learn from all of you...

Is it just me or crossfit women hotter than regular girls?

#6
"So you get the lefties that love the Constitution and hate America and the righties that love America (well, half of it anyway) and hate the Constitution arguing about an imaginary war while thousands are dying in a true conflict that's more complicated than we're allowed to talk about."

That's about the most true thing I have ever seen written about Iraq. You are a wise man.

The biggest thing I hate about the whole mess is that everyone will consider it to be a military loss. The powers that be are trying to use the military to solve a problem that can only be solved with diplomacy. Adding 21k or 210k more troops won't fix it unless they get the Iraqi government to start working for itself.

Can anyone comment if the ROE have actually changed? Are they still expecting the same cop-like decision making before you pull the trigger or is it a little looser as the President promised? I've been home almost a year now and enshallah I won't go back.

I slammed Mark Steyn last time (cheaply too I'll admit) but I actually agree with this article. Sadr should have been killed in the 2004 Najaf uprising but we were too soft to do it. Now he's in with Iran and he has someplace to hide where we can't touch him. In the meantime everyone is fighting over who's fault it is that we are losing rather than figuring out a way to win.

-JP

Glad to finally see a healthy coterie of people who are intelligently questioning the wisdom of the articles posted on rest days.

As for the quality of American troops, of course many are "the top echelon," but many -- too many -- are not. For example, see the following from the New York Times:

"The number of waivers granted to Army recruits with criminal backgrounds has grown about 65 percent in the last three years, increasing to 8,129 in 2006 from 4,918 in 2003, Department of Defense records show.

"During that time, the Army has employed a variety of tactics to expand its diminishing pool of recruits. It has offered larger enlistment cash bonuses, allowed more high school dropouts and applicants with low scores on its aptitude test to join, and loosened weight and age restrictions.

"It has also increased the number of so-called “moral waivers” to recruits with criminal pasts, even as the total number of recruits dropped slightly. The sharpest increase was in waivers for serious misdemeanors, which make up the bulk of all the Army’s moral waivers. These include aggravated assault, burglary, robbery and vehicular homicide."

As for the article by Steyn: my response is that this is no longer a war. The war is over -- Hussein is out. It is now an occupation. And in an occupation the question is not "win or lose" -- the question is "when do we leave?" The American people, the world, and many in the U.S. Armed Forced understand this. Steyn and the Bush Administration do not. We must update the language we use to describe the situation. Wars have clear armies and sides. Iraq has nothing of the sort -- Hitchens actually acknowledges that a civil war is happening. So we are not fighting in this civil war, we are occupying the nation while it fights a civil war. Understanding this nullifies Steyn's premise and therefore his whole argument.

As for Hitchens, agreed. Islam has big problems, and needs to reform itself similar to the nasty process the Christians underwent to stop their religious wars. I would argue that that is exactly what is going on in the Islamic world -- a civil war is being fought over the meaning and direction of Islam. Christians have been through this, and killed each other in as great, if not greater, numbers.

#17,
During the 3 minutes, I stretch my quads, lats, and triceps. Also some light massage to my quads so they don't cramp up on me. If you have access to a foam roller, it's a gift from above. It even works well on getting out knots in your muscles when you're sore the next day.

I can't say how much I love these videos that have been posted lately. Thank you guys so much!!! I was waiting for variation #6: try an inverted pull-up after you bring the toes to the feet.

Gotta agree with everyone on how good the new batch of videos have been. Super helpful and inspiring.

Thankyou all! :D

(#20 slink: good points all round)

According to wikipedia the current us military troop strenght is 2,685,713. The number of criminal waivers issued in 2006 was 8,129 or .30% of total troop strength. Over the last 3 years the total number of criminal records only represents .73% of troop strength. Over the last 3 years moral waivers only represent 3.7% of troop strength, moral waivers are also issued for traffic offenses,writing bad checks and drug offenses.

Not surprisingly, you academic know-it-alls display a complete cluelessness of mid-eastern mentality. There is no political solution in Iraq other than the massive ethnic cleansing and population redistribution that is already in progress.
Instead of fighting in both directions we must now ally ourselves the kurds and whatever shia' with whom long term relationship is possible. The sunni arabs are predominantly militant al-qaida and on these we will turn with a vengeance.
Unfortunately the only language spoken in that part of the world is overwhelming force.
Do not hand victory to the enemy!

Great WOD today

Man, the videos keep getting better and better!

Technical questions:
What kind of camera is being used?
What type of program is used for editing?

Thanks and great music by the way!

Warning: annoying perfectionist gymnastics coach post alert!

Annie, sorry girl, your legs are not straight. Close, but not straight. Those wouldn't be acceptable for leg lifts...

Rog

Those windshield wipers were impressive! What would be the progression to build up to those?

Scotty #10, i am a young LT in today's army, although prior enlisted too...you're an idiot on so many different levels i have no clue where to start. don't know why i'm responding to you but that was my first thought when i read your comment. i apologize for calling you that but i can't think of anything more suitable...back to crossfit

great vid's lately!

#10:

Your remarks are so baseless and facile that they are hardly deserving of comment, but you've managed to sufficiently piss me off enough to respond.

I can tell you right now that I work day in and day out with what can only be described as this nation's best and brightest sons (sorry, no women here); I can assure that these are not men who've "washed out" of civilian life. On the contrary, many of them left higly successful civilian careers in order to serve their country in what they rightly regard as a fight to the death to preserve our way of life. The guy I share an apartment with was a marketing executive earning six figures when his best friend went down in Tower 2; another one of my better friends was a sound engineer, also earning six figures a year, who left an Aerosmith tour in Germany to come take the Oath of Enlistment.

Quite frankly, I am sick and god damned tired of people like you who regard my comrades and I as a bunch of naiive pawns too incompetent to survive in any other career, as people too simple minded to possibly comprehend the complex situation with which we are dealing in Iraq and Afghanistan. But trust me when I say, sir, that you give me five of minutes of your time and I will debate your ass straight into the ground, as will any of the men I work with.

I'm sure at this point you're readying some salvo about how you served too, and that I can't question your opinion because you served 20 years as a messkit supply specialist in BFE, Alaska. To that I say: I don't give a sh*t. You and those like you are a disgrace, and your ill-informed opinions are shameful.

To the rest of the group: sorry for the language, hope I didn't offend anyone. The frustration level is a little high right now, considering that crackpots like old #10 are actually representative of a large number of Americans, including many of those who serve in Congress. In any case, I'll cut my ranting and raving short.

heh... "preemptive surrender"

Seriously, though, I wonder how this guy *really* feels about it...

"In the meantime everyone is fighting over who's fault it is that we are losing rather than figuring out a way to win."

This is the money statement. I know many conscientious Dems out there, but their party has been highjacked by people who are so angry at, hateful of, and mistrustful of Bush that they would rather have us lose than us get a "W" and have it reflect well on "W."

#10's boldness in displaying the multiple levels of his ignorance is really quite impressive.

The long tested and never defeated on the field system of:
-training officers to lead
-training enlisted men as technical experts and leaders
-having them work together such that the most competent, experienced enlisted leaders are assigned to support the officer and make him the best leader he can be for the betterment of the unit
This system is the envy of virtually every army in the world. Name a system that's worked better! That sort of pot shot from the peanut gallery is so poorly imformed I wonder if you shot it just to stir folks up. The wonder is that someone with that level of ignorance is also ignorant enough to display the same.

The vast majority of American kids today are not academically, physically, mentally or 'morally' fit; 78% of graduates are not eligible to be enlisted men/women in the U.S. military. That's a fact, and it's one that we hate in the military because we'd like to think the quality curve in our youth would be higher. But I can tell you from working with these folks every day they are outstanding people and it's humbling to serve with them. They are not all perfect, of course, but if you had to pick a population of people to work with, you'd be glad to pick this one.

As 17+ years as a Naval Aviator, I can attest to the competitive nature of this work; I will condense the explanation and say that of 34 folks that reported to my class for AOCS in 1989, about 3 of us remain on active duty having made every promotion opportunity. The last promotion board I 'passed' had a 56% selection rate.

Lastly, the draft model of running the military is gone. The draft would break our military. We've gone beyond that. It would require extensive restructuring of the entire military to revert back to the kind of training that was conducted then, the less efficient organization of units when draftees must be led vice the remaining volunteers (that first volunteered, then persevered and were not weeded out). The cost of maintaining a 'have to force them to do what we want' vice having an expectation of leadership and professionalism that results in Soliders/Sailors/Marines largely choosing to do the right thing. Far less fear and intimidation of troops, far more leadership and professionalism. Far more widely dispersed responsibility, far less "sending the cannon fodder out to do or die." The draft would be the worst possible thing that could happen to our military, it would destroy years of refining the leadership and traning model we've built based on talented, committed, professionals, vice those deprived of their freedom and forced into serfdom.

Patrick - well said, honest but tempered response. One thing you and I know for sure - #10 would never have the stones to say that except from the annonymity of a message board.

#23 - awesome post

Well, #31 posted when I really wanted to preview it, so it’ll have to go up there with warts and all.

What I like about even the ‘negative on the war and the military’ posts is it implies that people are at least engaged in trying to understand this event. There’s so much information out there, so much mis-information, so little valuable analysis … it makes this thing a puzzle unless you are just living it, which I have been, and still much is a puzzle.

Here’s some information that I think is relevant to posts above.

#20 – I’m not sure how you define occupation. The U.S. is here because the Government of Iraq, starting in late 2005, and with two requests to continue or extend, asked the UN Security Council for a resolution authorizing continued presence of Multi National Forces. We are the invited guests of the GoI and they can ask that we leave anytime they want to. To me, this is not occupation. That said, if we were an occupying force, the first thing we are obligated to do morally and by doctrine is defend the population from aggressors. Over 99% of Iraqis are not fighting here. Of 22 million or more (hard to estimate, last census was years ago said it was 27 million), if 1% picked up a rifle today they’d outnumber the coalition by almost 2-1. In all, there have been less than 48,000 attacks in four years (actually, far less, but I overestimated the attack rate at 1000/month for 48 months) – if each one was carried out by a different Iraqi or FF (foreign fighter), that’s 0.2% of the population. We’re talking about a small number of folks making it shitty for a lot of folks. And the question again is: Is it morally acceptable to break a nation’s system of law, and then leave the 99%+ of the population, when their government is requesting via the UN that we stay?

The piece on the Sunni Shia violence – he totally ignores the fact that very, very few individuals are ideologically driven to kill each other. The killing in Iraq is about power and fear. It happens by sectarian divide because that’s how people identify themselves in a conflict of this type – for example catholic v protestants in the UK – and very few actually commit murder for their religious convictions. Anyone can check their ‘common sense’ meter and confirm this. How many people that you know align their behavior according to the most extreme elements of their deepest religious beliefs? Muslims don’t either, with a few very glaring exceptions and if you take a skeptical look you’ll find just as many Christians or humanists or socialists that have done the same thing in that percentage.

Iran’s issues are the same – they have ideologues and scoundrels at the top using the force of the government to rule over a nation of people that are not ideologically driven. They’ll get rid of the mullahs eventually.

#24 – “The Sunni Arabs are predominantly militant al-qaida and on these we will turn with a vengeance.”
--There are very few Al Qaeda types in Anbar and other Sunni areas now. They are forming alliances daily to unite against AQ. It is one of the most promising changes in the entire effort. We crushed AQ, and that gave the Sunni a chance to fight them; they’re taking advantage of it. They’ve figured out, in many cases, the US is a pretty good ally. If you want more on this, email me and I can link you to several docs that explain it. Who we are still fighting in the Sunni areas are remnants of AQ, “the noble resistance” which is to say Sunni who would rather die than accept loss of power, and thugs/criminals.

The ‘surge’ mission is to stabilize Baghdad by protecting the 1% from the 99% - predictably, as the bad guys are forced out of Baghdad, they cause hate and mischief in other places. That’s one phenomenon that gives me pause. The enemy is flexible, adaptable and malicious. No one here is saying it is going to be easy to defend the populace, stabilize the country for turnover to a maturing Iraqi Security Force, and withdraw slowly so as to minimize destabilization. Difficult is not impossible.

As for Steyn's article, if the Dem Party had spent the last four years working to win in Iraq, instead of working to beat Bush, this thing would look totally different, as some of my favorite dems had said. Therefore, strategically, the Administration's greatest failing has been failing to keep the the good will of the American people in the "it's better to win this thing" camp, perhaps due to his over-confidence following what looked like an easy win in Afghan, leading him to believe this wouldn't be a 10 year process. Ironically, if viewed (rightfully) as a ten year process, we're doing quite well. That we all view this against an 18 month expectation is what makes it seem like we're sucking.

Ring dips - doable, muscle up next!

Neil(49) & Ellie(52)

Rxd

Neil
4.10
4.56
4.54
5.54
6.27
Only managed 4 rounds last time. However there was plenty of crying and wailing and gnashing of teeth. So much so that Ellie is thinking of trading me in for a younger, fitter, quieter model.

Ellie
3.49
4.01
4.04
4.10
4.09
Overall 1.03 faster than lastime.

The Dirty Dozen continued

Myth #7 Moderate intensity exercise is best for health.

Contrary to popular belief, while moderate intensity is good for health, new research suggests that without doubt, high intensity exercise is even better, reducing the risk of coronary heart disease, strokes, dieabetes and all-cause mortality to a greater degree than moderate intensity exercise. Of course, beginners still need to take it easy while they build up a fitness base. But if you're already exercising at a moderate intensity, you can gain additional health benefits from increasing the intensity, by working up to 85% of your maximum heart for some of your workouts.

To be continued.

I just got my rings from Tyler Haas' website. I used them for the ring dips on the CFWU this morning. 3 sets of 15 reps is a completely different animal using rings. Much, much harder/better.

Muscle up question: The false grip really hurts my wrists, I am 5'10" 195#, is it supposed to hurt a lot and I'm just a sissy or am I doing it wrong?

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

PS: The videos lately have been super excellent, thanks again xfit, you guys & girls are the best!

#31 Patrick:

Well said. Remember and pass along that many Americans proudly support and you what you do each day for your country. Thank you for your service.

My last should have read: "...support you and what you do..."

Premature postination.

While I am at it, thanks for posting the movies in *.mov.

To Comment #1

Add stretching to your routine. I am sure rest etc is also helpful, but more than anything I think stretching is really important. I actually do yoga 3 days a week along with CF.

-kk

Those are super great demonstrations in the video, very powerfully done. Thank you for making them available , Coach.

And to that idiot who characterized members of our armed forces as having washed out of civilian life, you could not be more wrong. Many of the strongest players in the civilian workforce are veterans and it's because they know how to get the job done.

That video is very impressive.

Annie, very impressive moves and as always, you look lovely doing them!

To the guys, impressive stuff! Especially the stuff by the guy in the red shirt and then the guy whose face is never shown. I can't even imagine having that kind of strength/weight ratio.

Also, this is one of the very very few Crossfit videos where I actually liked the music! Thanks for playing something other than reap, hip-hop or thrash metal.

Today's video and instruction on not throwing your head back seems to contradict the Knees-to-Elbows slide show in the "Exercises" link. The guy in the slide show definitely seems to be throwing his head back. Am I missing something? Please advise.

can someone tell me why we are in Iraq again? and please spare me the "they had WMD and they mistreated women and they are bad people" garbage. They were NO threat to us and now we are letting our countries best take bullets for people who mean nothing to us!

Just a thought but I wonder how much better off we would be if we put equal amounts of money (equal to the amount we are crapping into iraq that is) and built schools and created jobs for our own people? Hmmm.

If we needed something for our troops to do then we have a war on our own southern border; we could have put them there with better results for our country.

Oh wait, it just came to me, Saddam had the nerve to put his sand over our oil because remember people, if we control the energy supply directly, we control the world. God save us from our government.

I had to do some research on the song and was quite shocked to find out it's Elvis Presley!! The remix is by Paul Oakenfold and I've got to figure out where I can pick a copy of this up! Great stuff!!

Interesting rest day comments as always. I'm a day behind on WOD, so I'll contemplate tomorrow. Just glad to see so many people in good shape and able to use critical thinking. It's good exercise for your mind. Except #10, of course.

I meant #11, not #10. Annie definitely rocks, sorry for the confusion.

Did barbera today, was way to busy to do it yesterday.

total workout time of 24:12

1st 3:42
2nd 4:07
3rd 4:10
4th 4:16
5th 4:27

Well, I can't read the article yet as my browser keeps closing on me when I open the article up.

As for the video though, Annie is so cute when she laughs at doing the K2E's the spastic way!
Rob Miller you are a beast.

Kate

#42 - You can find a CD single of it in stores or online. They have it on Amazon, if you want a physical copy, or on I-Tunes. The single has a few different remixes of it.

Lovin crossfit! Its the most intense and kick ass workout and body conditioning i have ever done. Keep op the awesome work.

Rob & Annie- My IrAsian familia...You ROCK!

TimmyTheNoose Thank You,

Thank god someone said it! We keep over analyzing and ham handing this conflict we should have never been in the first place. We were lied to plain and simple and all the ancillary arguments in the world will not change that precipitating event that led to the deaths of thousands of our boys. Corruption, waste, fraud, stupidity, ethnocentrism and a total alienation Central Asia is the legacy of this war.

If you put a tie on a turd it’s still a turd! Dress fraud in the American flag and it’s still fraud.

Meanwhile thanks again coach Glassman for all. I have been at CF and boxing steady but posting a lot less. My gains keep coming and I broke 315# on my dead-lift….thank you!!

Ricky
Richmond

#33 (apolloswabbie): Again, you're thinking we're in a war in Iraq. We're not. We are in an occupation. Again, in an occupation, the occupier doesn't "win" or "lose." The occupier "stays" or "goes." The question in an occupation is not "how do we win?" but "when do we leave?" That's how the Democrats -- and, check your polls -- the majority of American citizens are seeing the situation.

And it's not a small conspiracy of Dems who are mistrustful of W. It's a significant majority of the American public, including an increasingly large number of long-term Republicans. (See last election.)

Hey #20.

I'm a "regular girl", and I CF.

John Murtha disgusts me!

I posted my last post (#33) when I really wanted to preview it, so it’ll have to go up there with warts and all.

What I like about even the ‘negative on the war and the military’ posts is it shows that people are at least engaged in trying to understand this event. There’s so much information out there, so much mis-information, so little valuable analysis … it makes this thing a puzzle unless you are just living it, which I have been, and still much is a puzzle.

Here’s some information that I think is relevant to posts above.

#20 – I’m can’t know how you would technically define an occupation. The U.S. is here because the Government of Iraq, starting in late 2005, and with two requests to continue or extend, asked the UN Security Council for a resolution authorizing continued presence of Multi National Forces. We are the invited guests of the GoI and they can ask that we leave anytime they want to, so to me, it is no longer an occupation. That said, if we were an occupying force, the first thing we are obligated to do morally and by doctrine is defend the population from aggressors. Over 99% of Iraqis are not fighting here. Of 22 million or more (hard to estimate, last census was years ago said it was 27 million), if 1% picked up a rifle today they’d outnumber the coalition by almost 2-1. In all, there have been less than 48,000 attacks in four years (actually, far less, but I overestimated the attack rate at 1000/month for 48 months) – if each one was carried out by a different Iraqi or FF (foreign fighter), that’s 0.2% of the population (and this is with multiple deliberate overestimates build into the equation). Of course, the attacks have not all been carried out by different people. We’re talking about a small number of folks making it lousy for a lot of folks. And the question again is: Is it morally acceptable to break a nation’s system of law, and then leave the 99%+ of the population, when their government is requesting via the UN that we stay? You can blame Bush, Clinton, Kerry and the others for starting it, Bush and team for running it badly, and Iraqi’s for “not just getting along.” But that’s all distraction. The question is what to do now, and that does not have anything to do with who’s to blame for which mistakes.

The Hitchens piece on the Sunni Shia violence – he totally ignores the fact that very, very few individuals are ideologically driven to kill other people. The killing in Iraq is about power and fear. It happens by sectarian divide because that’s how people identify themselves in a conflict of this type – for example Catholic v Protestants in the UK – and very few actually commit murder for their religious convictions. Anyone can check their ‘common sense’ meter and confirm this. How many people that you know align their behavior according to the most directive elements of their deepest religious beliefs? Muslims don’t either, with a few very glaring exceptions and if you take a skeptical look you’ll find just as many Christians or humanists or socialists that have done the same thing in that small percentage.

Proof of the above – Bin Laden’s ‘approval ratings’ the four largest Sunni Muslim nations have fallen from over 75% in 2001 to less than 25% now – primarily due to AQ’s violence against Shia.

#24 – “The Sunni Arabs are predominantly militant al-qaida and on these we will turn with a vengeance.”
--Very few Al Qaeda types in Anbar and other Sunni areas now. The Sunni Sheiks are forming alliances daily to unite against AQ. It is one of the most promising changes in the entire effort. We crushed AQ, and that gave the Sunni a chance to fight them; they’re taking advantage of it. They’ve figured out, in many cases, the US is a far better ally than AQ. If you want more on this, email me and I can link you to several docs that explain it. Who we are still fighting in the Sunni areas are remnants of AQ, “the noble resistance” which is to say Sunni who would rather die than accept loss of power, and thugs/criminals.

The ‘surge’ mission is to stabilize Baghdad by protecting the 1% from the 99% - predictably, as the bad guys are forced out of Baghdad, they cause hate and mischief in other places. That’s one phenomenon that gives me pause. The enemy is flexible, adaptable and malicious. No one here is saying it is going to be easy to defend the populace, stabilize the country for turnover to a maturing Iraqi Security Force, and withdraw slowly so as to minimize destabilization. Difficult is not impossible.

Steyn’s pieces are always enjoyable and usually informative, and this one makes a great point about one simple fact – regardless of who’s to blame, a loss is going to be bad for all Americans and many other people as well. I believe if the Democratic Party had shown the moral courage to be committed to victory (positive outcome, achievement of foreign policy goals, prevention of a Darfur in Iraq after we leave, whatever you’d like to term it), we’d be in a far better position. Not that I excuse the Bush Admin for selling a ten year war as a “quickie.” If viewed from the lens of a 10 year war, we’re right on schedule or ahead. It the viewing from an expectation of a 3 year win that makes it look ‘all ate up.’

Even for those who would be willing to--to all appearances, with the clear consciences and large grins of the mentally defective--countenance the blood that would be on our hands were we to vacate Iraq in the context of the current power vacuum, how can anyone argue--given that the blood on all sides is being shed primarily by religious and political extremists--that some sort of regime would not rise from the ashes of the flame of generalized horror that would be fundamentally antithetical to American interests, likely supportive of terrorism, and probably aligned with either Iran, Syria, or both. Something worse than the regime of Saddam Hussein.

The likelihood of this seems obvious enough. Given that, success in Iraq is in our national interest. Given that, the argument for retreat needs to be made with greater clarity than arguments along the lines of "this war is hard." Just because something is hard, kids, doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. It means it requires effort, perseverance; it means occasional small and large failures are inevitable, and that time and resources need to be dedicated. It means delayed gratification, delayed to an as-yet unknown point.

Persisting in efforts to engineer failure in this context is borderline treasonous, if done solely for political gain at the expense of American security. The Iraqi Army manifestly isn't ready for prime-time. Even with OUR Army there, there is considerable violence, so it doesn't take a genuis to surmise it will get worse with us gone, and that the fewer troops we have there, the more vulnerable they are.

Remember, y'all Leftists and Democrats are supposed to at least be pretending to care about American deaths beyond their theatrical value in the evening news, and correllated value in political strategy. Frankly, you must be disappointed our deaths are so low. There was so much more to work with in Vietnam. Perhaps you could cut funding for combat, and make sure we're always short on troops. Oh yes, you already thought of that.

Interesting comments. I still consider myself a "newbie" so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I enjoyed posting to comments in the beginning, but now I feel as if this is more of a political website than a fitness website.
I understand that there are a lot of people involved in crossfit that are in the military or have loved ones that are protecting us every day...but crossfit, at least for me, is a way to, at least for a little while, concentrate on something positive. The benefits from the workouts have changed me, and I am sure many of my fellow crossfitters.
Maybe I am just a painfully simple person, but I just have to sometimes wonder why we can't accentuate the positive and get away from political questions that apparently anger people who should be concentrating on what at least I thought crossfit what all about.
I apologize ahead of time for offending anyone.

#56
You can quote studies until the cows come home. You're missing the point.
This is a war between "western Civilization" (+Israel, Japan, etc.) and a large population of islam who are agressive and succesful in their continuing efforts at world domination.
It is our luck that they are fracturous and divided. They will certainly strike US soil again as soon as they can. Do not mistake a lack of ability for a lack of will!
These enemies of OURS are barbaric ruthless fanatics who will NOT REST until you and me and our families are dead or under their thumb.

Note: "I have muslim friends" (snicker)

great training post, here the way the women exercises her legs is really showing she can keep in shape.

# 31 Patrick

Well said. You are spot on!

Scotty, you're a goof-ball. Politics aside, 300 is no cartoon. Mark and Lisa Twight both worked to train the stuntmen and actors for the film. They did high intensity work much like Crossfit. Duh, this stuff works! Don't hate someone who decides to no longer be an affiliate. It happens. Who cares? Malign them if you will, I don't take your words for much.

While their site (gymjones.com) is fun to visit and inspiring, much of what they do is out of the realm of possibility in a typical gym. When was the last time you saw folks pulling 100lbs of chain tied to a rope across a gym floor or loading those same chains onto a squat rack? Good stuff surely. Not really doable for most.

I'm sticking with the WOD.

To All the rest day posting Nay Sayers...you have an option not to read them. Remember this is a free site and a free country. God Bless the good Old USofA!

Every rest day we have one or two people who are upset to find political articles posted on the website.

First, it's Coach's website. Since it's his, he gets to post what he wants. When you take offense at his political leaning you betray a childish attitude that demands the rest of the world not offend you. In fact, there was a fine article addressing that very issue a week or two ago.

Second, we discuss political issues on rest day because as citizens, we have a responsibility to be informed on the issues which affect our nation and dictate how we vote. I fear there are many in our nation who vote solely on emotion and image rather than exerting the mental effort to grasp the workings of our government and major issues of the day.

Any Crossfitters in the Orlando area that know of any gyms to do our workouts in? I'll be at Disney march 17-19 for my daughters cheerleading competition and would like to train with some people down there.

re comments 20 & 54 Hey Robbin B...if you do crossfit THEN YOU ARE a crossfit girl!!! And by default -- YOU ROCK GIRLFRIEND!!!

Reply to X-Fit post #1

In the Jan or Dec 2007 Rock and Ice Mag there was an article regarding this subject for Elbow Tendonitis. Three exercises. Basically get a light dumbbell (10# - 15#).
First exercise with palm facing up (do not grasp thumb around dumbbell for this exercise only) and forearm resting on bench, etc. Slowly release tension on wrist/forearm so that hand drops lower. Do not contract wrist back into starting position. Use your other hand to assist bringing hand back into position. Repeat until you are spent.
Second exercise. Have weight only on one side of dumbbell. Start with forearm resting on bench with hand holding dumbbell in vertical position. Rotate wrist slowly to the right if holding it in your right hand until you feel the tension. Hold and then use your other hand to bring the dumbbell in the starting position.
Third exercise. Hold dumbbell in the opposite direction as the first exercise. Palms facing downward. Same concept as First exercise.
Ice afterwards.

"I fear there are many in our nation who vote solely on emotion and image rather than exerting the mental effort to grasp the workings of our government and major issues of the day."

Murph,

Karl Rove and George Bush, on the other hand, thank God every day for the above described voter.

If we leave Iraq unsecure by leaving, quitting, redeploying, or however you want ot term it, before they have a solid chance of keeping the extremist of all shades from running rough-shod...

1. we will see the error of our ways with-in 2 weeks.

2. we will have let 10s of thousands of "God's Children" be taken to the slaughter and millions to oppression within 6 months.

3. we will be back there with in the decade...and they will be here.

We have a golden opportunity to put this baby to bed...we just have to pacify it throught the tantrums.

This just in...

It turns out that the "anti-war" crowd is growing increasingly violent. Assault to be exact.

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/022007/02202007/261345

This is not a suprise to anyone like myself (who has seen the violence that "anti-war" types feel is their "Right" along with their fellow pink-o travelers such as enviromental wackos, animal lovers, and other hippy reject movements ).

Of course I was only called a "Baby Killer" and had hot coffee launched at me.

Had this idiot showed at my house, he would be in a comma at best. Silly hippy.

Marshall -

I didn't say that only democrats voted without thinking - you implied that on your own.

Regardless of party affiliation, an uninformed, image-driven voter is likely to cast a vote that conflicts with his or her own values.

It seems to me the way the Democrats--make no mistake, this IS a Democratic initiative, with some opportunistic Republican fellow-travellers--are selling the abandonment of those who trusted us in Iraq is quite simple.

1) It's over there, so it doesn't matter.
2) It's George Bush's war. Do you like George Bush?

It's the sort of consequence-free environment where liberals thrive. Where everything is possible, because everything can co-exist in the blissful sunshine of their imaginations, and where all bad things can be blamed on the Republicans.

"All that matters, man, is how you FEEL!!!! How do you FEEL about this war? All those uncool bombings, all those soldiers parading around like they OWN the place, man. Dude, Iraq totally belongs to the IRAQI's. Comprende? Dude, they like totally don't want us, because we are like totally causing all those bombings and stuff. Would you like to be blown up? Me, either, man. AMERICA OUT NOW!!!"

That appears to me to be the--well, normally I use the word logic here, but for the sake of accuracy and clarity, let's change it to--FEELING. Haven't many great nations been built and maintained with feeling? They haven't? Well MAYBE WE SHOULD BE THE FIRST. Thinking about that feels good, doesn't it?

Right?

Barry, and others on the R, ask yourselves a question.

Why, though our system of government, our culture, our freedoms and education and religious tolerance .... why when these things are so OBVIOUSLY superior to the repressive garbage on offer by the Islamist Extremists...

... why has our "product" not been bought? Why has the violent, intolerant, human-rights abrogating alternative picked up so much support? Why is it STILL picking up support, such that the terrorists can keep on recruiting people to die left and right?

Our values, our way of life, our freedoms at least as we live it HERE in our own homes, so far outstrip the average life experience of someone in Iraq, or Afghanistan, why aren't they clamouring to join us?

It is a cultural war, but with different roots than we allow. Where were the values we cherish ... and want the Iraqis to adopt ... when we *supported* Saddam? Or the Shah of Iran? Where was our concern for human dignity and freedom, or tolerance, or democracy?

Islamic extremism is an ugly, ugly ideology that gained strength precisely because the West has not lived out the best of its values through a long history of colonialism and exploitation.

They don't hate us because we're free ... they hate us because we've historically messed them up, to expand our own freedom. Got rich off their fat, got a lifestyle based on exploiting their resources.

The Islamist extremist crap is quite simply, a nationalist reaction. It's *theirs.* It's defiantly, unequivocally anti-West - it rejects our values becuase the way our foreign and economic policies have worked ... they've experienced our values as at best vastly self-centred. At worst, as a lie. So in response, Islamic extremism rejects the whole thing, becomeing obscenely repressive, backwards, violent ... and culturally distinct.

And is perhaps the greatest example of a failure in the West's marketing as I can think of. Why would anyone choose such an ideology, if they hadn't been convinced that the more "humane" alternative wasn't humane at all.

CrossFit's about telling the truth, at least to our bodies. Rejecting the "show" of bodybuilding, for the "factual" strength from functional movements. We need to do the same intellectually, as we look at our history in the world. We can't afford to keep telling ourselves that we've been the good guys - it's quite literally killing us.

Tom F

#2 Sev, political commentary is one of the core exercises on rest days here at CF. Suck it up buttercup. BTW, you feel free to demean it as "jabber" on the basis of ??? (please look up ad hominen attack)
#11 Scotty, I served in the late "vietnam era" army and I'm serving in Iraq today as an activated National Guardsman. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that it took the army over a decade to repair itself and move past the morass of the the draft into the modern era. We do not need or desire a draft. Thats a political ploy to frighten and manipulate the public. I disagree with the current trend to lower standards and grant waivers. Those standards while in place have given us a large pool of smart and motivated people and a minimum of disciplinary problems. For the definitive read on the subject see "Certain Victory" by Robert Scales. A draft would assure us a large pool of problematic, unwilling and unmotivated "brainstems" that the rest of us would have to look after. It doesn't matter how good they look on paper, if they're here against their will, they'll be sub standard. Warfare has progressed beyond the era of warm bodies occupying space. Don't be overly worried about the "22 year old Boy/girl" 2nd Lt. We have our ways and the learning curve tends to be rather steep in certain environments. As for "washing out of civilian life"? Most of the youngsters on active duty are getting a leg up on it, many like it to the extent that they make a career of it. In the Guard and reserve, the vast majority are quite successful and well established in the civilian world. I wont bore someone as all knowing as yourself with telling why we do what we do. K-

Tom F.,

If 1% of the people in Iraq are creating substantially ALL of the problems (see Apolloswabbie's posts, from Iraq), how do you generalize from that that we have failed in our marketing? The conclusion I would draw is that if we promise them better lives, and then withdraw on the whim of a transient political current, THEN we have failed. We will have shown ourselves--at least the part of our political process currently run by the Democratic Party--to be dishonorable and untrustworthy.

You have to understand that the will of the Iranian PEOPLE is not represented by Ahmadinejad and the yet worse fanatics standing behind him in the shadows. And if you want to suggest the Iraqi people, in overwhelming numbers, don't want peace, you're crazy.

If people are given the choice, they adopt our ways in the overwhelming majority of cases. That is why force is so essential to our opponents. They can't win a war of ideas, except to the extent that--through propaganda they predigest and regurgitate into the willing mouths of willing leftist chick(en)s--they cause us to quit the fight altogether, both ideologically, AND on the battlefield. Once death becomes the reliable outcome of desiring Western ways, and once we have closed the way to the hope of change by our abject and pusillanimous retreat, our enemies gain enough time and power to entrench futility in the form of an unchangingly ineffective regime, such as that in Cuba, and the one Hugo Chavez is trying to create in Venezuala. As far as that goes, Iran.

In sum, given your presuppositions, why don't the Cubans choose our way of life? Wouldn't it be easier than trying to cross over in a boat?

#2 Sev,
Welcome to Crossfit rest day. I am not college educated and would be glad to engage you on any level in a debate concerning your condescending attitude toward my lack of education. You calling the discourse here "jabber" as the second post of the day encourages me to believe that you are A) baiting us, and B) woefully under qualified for the job.

A fitting quote by Abraham Lincoln.

"Must I shoot a simple-minded soldier-boy who deserts, while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induces him to desert? This is none the less injurious when effected by getting a father, or brother, or friend, into a public meeting, and there working upon his feelings till he is persuaded to write the soldier-boy that he is fighting in a bad cause, for a wicked Administration of a contemptible Government, too weak to arrest and punish him if he shall desert.

"I think that in such a case to silence the agitator and save the boy is not only constitutional, but withal a great mercy."

http://www.navyseals.com/community/articles/article.cfm?id=10608

I forgot to add that I liked Hitchen's question: if cartoons constitute blasphemy, what would the Prophet make of the recipients of his recitation--the Quran--killing one another? Surely that would constitute a far worse form of blasphemy. I don't know for certain, but it seems likely that--just as there are some surahs which can be interpreted as advocating violence against non-believers--there are surahs prohibiting true believers from murdering one another. The House of War is supposed to be outside Islam, which is supposed to be the Abode of Peace.

I've said this before, but aggressive military jihad is not a fundamental part of the doctrines of Islam as portrayed in the Quran itself, if I'm not mistaken. It is not formally a Pillar of Islam. In fact, the only real sine qua non of being or becoming a Muslim is the recitation that roughly translates, "there is only one God, and he is Allah". Anyone that wants to believe this has ample company in the form of other religious faithful, and is no threat to anyone, if they don't insist on others adopting the same belief, and using violence to accomplish that end.

Given this, and given the overwhelming likelihood against Muslims conquering the West, one has to ask: who are these people calling for jihad? And not just calling for jihad, but calling for jihad against unbelievers AND BELIEVERS--Muslims--alike? And not just combatants, but ANYONE who opposes them, could oppose them, or who just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

There is great beauty in the notion of forceful introspection with the goal of conquering weakness--jihad, in another form. No person in the West can have any problem with that, or with the profession of absolute and unbending faith in Allah.

The only issue is with violence that seems to have no goal in mind other than sowing pain and confusion. This can never have been the intention of the Prophet, who, although a successful military general, does seem to have had in mind bringing some measure of peace to a brutal land.

Thus, we can reasonably ask Muslims: is this representative of your faith? If so, why should we not hold it in contempt? If not, why aren't you making more efforts to reclaim your faith and follow a straighter and narrower path of righteousness? Why won't you stop at least the blasphemy of killing your fellow Muslims?

windshield wipers: one of my favorite gymnastics core exercises....def.

the last few demo KTE left me rolling on the floor!

I cant open the article: "Why the Iraq war is turning into America's defeat" by Mark Steyn - Chicago Sun Times

CCTJoey- "Silly hippy", NICE bro!

On another note, people should look at the new Navy Times.

I can open it now.

Saturday's Crossfit Total:
Capt E, B-Squat: 315 DL: 345 O/H press: 155
SSgt L, B-Squat: 255 DL: 235 O/H press: 115
Sgt O, B-Squat: 300 DL: 265 O/H press: 125
Sgt S, B-Squat: 295 DL: 295 O/H press: 145

29/M/6'1" 175#

Barbara

3:30
3:10
3:25
3:47
4:20

Please check out comment #36 from me.

Do Muscle ups crush your wrists or am I doing them wrong? Has anyone ever experienced a wrist injury from muscle ups?

Also, here is my two cents worth on Iraq:

We are there now, nothing can change that.

If we leave now, Iraq will implode, I think everyone agrees with that statement.

I believe that we need to be a presence in Iraq for decades in order to assist in bringing stability to that country and the entire region. It does not matter which side of the isle you are on, stabilizing the country is the right thing to do. Quitting is never an option.

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

After an off day ystd needed some work so borrowed and slightly altered today's WOD on the CFSC (the mothership) site:
3 rounds for time
500M row
21 towel PU (no cargo net in my gym, can you imagine?!)
21 thrusters (oly bar)
21 back ext (no GHD)

22:27 (properly bended, folded, spindled, and mutiliated...)

Regarding today's topic, didn't apolloswabbie simply slam this door shut with his post a couple of rest days ago with his three questions about what to do NOW? At least the part about Iraq. I'm afraid I can't find it, bu if ever there was a place for a "cut and paste re-run", this is it.

39 yom 5'6" 165#

CFWUx2 - pus and dips

Did Barbara, since I couldn't do it yesterday.

3:21
3:13
4:48
6:04
5:54

Was catatonic for 1/2 hour afterward--another gym goer wondering if he should call the medics.

Not into political debates online, but I have to say one thing:

THANKS TO OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM WHO SERVE WITH HONOR AND PRIDE--WHOSE ETERNAL MISSION IT IS TO PRESERVE OUR FREEDOM! YOU HAVE THE GRATITUTE OF MYSELF AND MY FAMILY. GOD BLESS YOU.

TSC prep:
5 min snatches w/35#: 85 (or 95, lost count)
TSC pullups:
12/8/8/9/9
dbl jerks: 26sx10, 35sx6/6/6/6/8

I really must say I enjoy the rest day postings. While some of the commentary is a bit, shall we say, underinformed, there is some terrific insight shared from some very bright folks. Thank you all for making "rest days" so profound.

This just in...

Via The Drudge Report

POLL: AMERICANS 'WANT TO WIN IN IRAQ'
Tue Feb 20 2007 16:21:32 ET

In the wake of the U.S. House of Representatives passing a resolution that amounts to a vote of no confidence in the Bush administration's policies in Iraq, a new national survey by Alexandria, VA-based Public Opinion Strategies (POS) shows the American people may have some different ideas from their elected leaders on this issue.

The survey was conducted nationwide February 5-7 among a bi-partisan, cross-section of 800 registered voters. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percent. The survey was commissioned by The Moriah Group, a Chattanooga-based strategic communications and public affairs firm.

The survey shows Americans want to win in Iraq, and that they understand Iraq is the central point in the war against terrorism and they can support a U.S. strategy aimed at achieving victory, said Neil Newhouse, a partner in POS. The idea of pulling back from Iraq is not where the majority of Americans are.

By a 53 percent - 46 percent margin, respondents surveyed said that Democrats are going too far, too fast in pressing the President to withdraw troops from Iraq.

By identical 57 percent - 41 percent margins, voters agreed with these statements: I support finishing the job in Iraq, that is, keeping the troops there until the Iraqi government can maintain control and provide security and the Iraqi war is a key part of the global war on terrorism.

Also, by a 56 percent - 43 percent margin, voters agreed that even if they have concerns about his war policies, Americans should stand behind the President in Iraq because we are at war.

While the survey shows voters believe (60 percent- 34 percent) that Iraq will never become a stable democracy, they still disagree that victory in Iraq (creating a young, but stable democracy and reducing the threat of terrorism at home) is no longer possible. Fifty-three percent say it's still possible, while 43 percent disagree.

By a wide 74 percent - 25 percent margin, voters disagree with the notion that "I don't really care what happens in Iraq after the U.S. leaves, I just want the troops brought home."

When asked which statement best describes their position on the Iraq War, voters are evenly divided (50 percent - 49 percent) between positions of "doing whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country," and positions that call for immediate withdrawal or a strict timetable.

27 percent said "the Iraq war is the front line in the battle against terrorism and our troops should stay there and do whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country."

23 percent said "while I don't agree that the U.S. should be in the war, our troops should stay there and do whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country."

32 percent said "whether Iraq is stable or not, the U.S. should set and hold to a strict timetable for withdrawing troops."

17 percent said "the U.S. should immediately withdraw its troops from Iraq."

The survey also found that voters thought it would hurt American prestige more to pull out of Iraq immediately (59 percent) than it would to stay there for the long term (35 percent). Public Opinion Strategies "scored the best win-loss record among the major polling and media firms in the 2004 election" and was named Pollster of the Year in 2002.

Billy,

Muscle-ups will, at first, leave bloody sores and bruises on your wrists. Whether that is supposed to hurt or not I cannot say.

You're in good company!

Scotty,
How dare you criticize the junior officers and their decision to serve their country. To even make it to the rank of 2nd LT (in the Marine Corps, for example), one has to pass a pretty decent screening process and then make it through OCS which is a 10 week job interview to see if one has the resident skills (i.e. basic leadership, brains, physical qualifications, and most importantly heart) and then to TBS (a 6 month training evolution where he/she is challenged more and their leadership skills are honed even further. After that, the LT's must go through their MOS school (job specific training) and then to the fleet. This is hardly a complete lack of experience with the skills necessary to lead and succeed on the battlefield.
To make it this far, one has to be one of the best and brightest and WILLING TO SERVE. MONEY IS NOT THE GOAL HERE. MAKING A DIFFERENCE, DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT WITH THEIR LIVES IS THE FOCUS.
As for the E-7, one of their biggest responsibilities is to help train the LT to make the right decisions. Any Gunny (or Staff Sergeant for that matter), worth their salt will ensure that the new LT is brought up and trained the proper way in their military specialty. An officer may forget his first CO, but he never forgets his first Gunny.
Contrary to your overly simplified analysis, LT's aren't exactly making the policy decisions (in your words running it into the ground). They are following orders and passing them down the chain of command. If you actually think that the these new LT's are in control of Iraq, then can you explain the Warrant Officers, Captains, Majors, Colonels and Generals who are in theatre too? I didn't think so.
Regarding the age of the LT's, average age for my OCS class was 28. If you take out all the prior enlisted, the average age was 25. People are spending a longer time in college because of the increased costs of education and the internships that they take to leave with more educational experience.
Revisit your own educational experience and the historical precedence in this matter. Nothing has changed that dramatically in today's military from the very foundation of the armed services...there is a chain of command that ends with young officers that grow into experienced and valuable senior officers. You are not instantaneously an experienced leader - you grow under the tutelege of the aformentioned staff NCO's.
The battlefield objectives and related orders all originate miles away from the lowly LTs - who simply execute and get the job done as part of the bigger picture.
Finally, lest you forget the foundation underneath your shaky soapbox, these "civilian washouts" are the ones fighting for YOUR right to sit at the computer and make uninformed and inaccurate criticisms. Force the best and the brightest to serve? ONLY the best and the brightest would have the moral fiber to uphold the cause of even poorly informed and underappreciative citizens like yourself. Or should we only extend your thanks to those YOU find worthy?
Get your facts straight before you make such an absurd and inflammatory statement against the best fighting force in the world.

32 y/o male
221 lbs
6'3

1.5 mile run to Gab Gab beach
20 push ups
500yd swim
20 pushup
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
400 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
300 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
200 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
100 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12 % incline hill and home
1.5 mile run

2:20:21

Warm and humid day on Guam. No rest for the wicked. Deadlifts tomorrow, ah hell.

Joe

32 y/o male
221 lbs
6'3

1.5 mile run to Gab Gab beach
20 push ups
500yd swim
20 pushup
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
400 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
300 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
200 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12% incline hill and down
20 push ups
100 yd swim
20 push ups
.5 mile run up 12 % incline hill and home
1.5 mile run

2:20:21

Warm and humid day on Guam. No rest for the wicked. Deadlifts tomorrow, ah hell.

Joe

I injured my back two months doing deadlifts, and have been reluctant to repeat the injury. No doubt this set back occurred because I have no training with weights and my form was...ah..not good. (To put it mildly) I have been unable to find anyone that can work with me on this and other O-lifts. So, I just do something else when liftingin on the WOD. I feel I'm missing out on half of what C.f.is. Bummer

I found this quote today and it seemed appropriate-

President John F. Kennedy quoted this in remarks to members of the First Armored Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia, November 26, 1962: “Many years ago, according to the story, there was found in a sentry box in Gibraltar a poem which said:

God and the soldier, all men adore
In time of danger and not before
When the danger is passed and all things righted,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted.

Take care all who are watching our backs and making sure that we are safe.

Kate

So many excellent posts today, from the 'usual suspects' and some new voices as well - gratzi.

Thanks for the poll numbers, Joey.
That said, Slink, you can bet I'll never "check my poll numbers" when I'm trying to sort through what my own opinion is or work out the answer to "what is the best action to take?"

Well said by MurphIZ: "Second, we discuss political issues on rest day because as citizens, we have a responsibility to be informed on the issues which affect our nation and dictate how we vote."

Being 12 hours out of synch prevents 'participating' in real time but it always makes a great read the 'day after.'

Tom F#73 - There's no questioning that some in the Middle East resent the West because of their perception that their problems are a result of our past and present foreign policy decisions and cultural values. I agree with your assertion that thinking of ourselves as the 'good guys' is not useful to understanding events in the world. Of those who define themselves by being 'not western,' you could count North Korea, Iran, Al Qaeda and others. I'm thinking I'm not the only one that noticed how poorly that position serves them. The good news is, this is still not a mass perception, and most people of any persuasion will take advantage of property rights, rule of law and economic liberty to make things better for themselves. In the end, it's not Pollyanna good intentions for the down trodden that makes things better, it's the enlightened self interest of trade augmented by rule of law, economic liberty and property rights. I believe but I can't prove it that the existence of those things is at a historic high, and that's why those who measure these things say that proportionally, there is less fighting and less war now than there ever has been.

I notice for many folks, the debate begins and ends with "who's fault it and we shouldn't be there at all, it was wrong to start it, mistakes by Bush, etc etc." That's all great, vote against Bush and whomever you like, hate Bush with all your might, but all that has nothing to do with what to do now. Based on the poll it would seem that even the majority that don't think Bush is doing his job well can see that's not connected to what we should do now.

Timmythenoose's points about 'save us from our govt' paints an interesting contrast to his earlier assertion about how much good "we" (govt) could have done had our govt taken more money from productive citizens to put into schools and 'created' jobs. The answer is, it would do about as much good as doubling the inflation adjusted expenditures on education over the last 30 years has done - very little improvement for the ~$10K/year/student we're spending. As you point out Timmy, govts are not all that great at doing stuff. They should only do those things that cannot be done otherwise. Goodness comes from people, not people using the coercive power of govts.

Yes, I can get the irony of being a lifetime (so far) govt employee and accusing my employer of being fundamentally incompetent. Doesn't change the facts.

Paul

Redaction - I calculated numbers by month that I should have calculated by week. Ergo, at an everestimated 1000/week, 208 weeks, total attacks would be 208,000, 0.95% of (a lowball estimate of) population if each attack was by a different individual. I should have realized I mis-calc'ed because more than 100,000 combatants have been killed or captured.

Original point still stands - it's an unholy few making it nasty for a far larger population that isn't out there killing folks .... not that anyone will be reading this one now.

Thanks for all the lovely vids Lauren! They're of great help for people like me who are far from Crossfit affiliates and people interested in the right technique even!

add to #97

Throwing funds @ a problem is not always the answer. Take for example the "war on poverty". Govt funding over the last 30 years has been in the trillions. But no noticable reduction in the number of citizens in the poverty state.

ApolloSwab - Now that I know you're a fellow nasal radiator, it makes sense you're so bright and well-spoken!! (winged May 21, 1993).
Great posts.

Ricky et al - you miss the point entirely. Let us suppose we all agree wuith your bumper sticker - "Bush lied and thousands died" or whatever that tripe is - that helps not one whit with THIS question - WHAT DO WE DO NOW? Unless you operate under some kind of (logically and ethically indefensible) belief system which says that if the pretext for war was wrong/false then we are compelled to withdraw immediately. I will not bother refuting that one here, though I am happy to explain why it is - the statement itself is almost a tautology when pared down to its essence. A few philosophy professors and logicians have already done this.

Asa a practical matter, though, the question really ought to be on WHAT DO WE DO NOW FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY INTERESTS OF THE US?? Everything else is just partisan crap.

Full poll results re: #90: http://www.moriahgroup.com/iraqpoll
(safe pdf file)

Survey commissioned and performed by the Moriah Group and Public Opinion Strategies, respectively, both pro-Republican (for those who are wary of "partisan crap").

#64 and #97: While information is always welcome, it seems to me that CF is dedicated to giving its target audience an opportunity to say "Gee, here's _another_ reason why I'm always right!" every three days. Newcomers should be forgiven for being a little surprised at first.

Many members of the ever-growing CF congregation don't sing in the choir or simply prefer burpees to preaches. I think it would be a mistake to insist that we all drink the same flavored Kool-Aid.

Coach,
Thanks for the comment on the rings. I will suck it up :>)

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy

Did this today since I missed Michael...

Run 7 MPH @ 6% for 3 minutes
65 lb. Good Morning, 50 reps
50 sit ups

Complete in 26:12

Ewen,

One of the biblical truths that so obvious even a non-believer like me gets it is the story of the tower of babel. I am certain we will not all believe the same thing - we never will. Usually, when all the people come to the same conclusion, something bad happens shortly thereafter. I am not willing to accept that we, coming from different political 'affiliations' or 'sympathies,' and life experiences can't have rational information exchange about how to best work together to make our nation better for its citizens.

There are always those trashing the rest day discussions (and looking at where Xfit is based, on the West Coast, one would think being blatantly 'not liberal' is costing Coach some customers) but there are very few who can engage in a reasoned explanation for why they see it differently, what assumptions they disagree with, how they can better explain the topic. Many who say this is 'right winged crap' and few (not none) who will back that up with better information or analysis.

I know such people exist - they should stake their claim as you did. Kool aid not required in my book.

Paul, I do not see any disparity with my statements. God save us from our government and stating that putting those monies into school are not in disputation with one another… and anyone—I would trust—if given the preference between buying bombs and dropping them in Iraq or building a new science building for their daughters or sons would pick the latter.

And I apologize for not being more long winded, I just thought that some things are implicit e.g. only the federal government can wage war, not local government… and schools are paid for by local real estate taxes, not the feds—you with me so far? So if my money stays local and does “good” then it cannot go elsewhere and do “bad”.

And just so that there is no room for debate on my stance toward the military: I am behind every man, woman and family member of those who serve. My wife just got out after eight years of service and my brother is still in x23 years and is in Iraq once per month to fly out wounded. I consider them some of the finest persons on the planer.

Lastly, and with just a bit of respect Paul, do not ever put “we” and “government” as if they are interchangeable, they are not.

A world without America???

http://www.18doughtystreet.com/on_demand/165

Tim,

There is still room for debate on your stance on the military. Simply because you aren't spitting on blood relatives doesn't mean that you are supporting policies--such as increased funding, relaxed rules of engagement where they make sense, and overall support of the mission--that are really what we need to win the war. And all public stances which weaken our ability to wage the war are therefore implicitly NOT supportive of the troops. That is why it seems to me one should either come up with strong reasons for an immediate discontinuation of the war, or support our troops in their quest for victory. You haven't done the former, so it seems to me you are NOT doing the latter.

When you trot out an only mildly reworked version of the Air Force--which I'm told is badly underfunded relative to its' current mission requirements--versus bake sale bumpersticker, you are sloganeering, not generating coherent argument.

If the Science Museum you seem to think preferably to "icky" foreign policy entanglements gets blown up, the money has been wasted, hasn't it? If we fail to protect our nation, then what happens in our nation fails too.

And I have to say that we already spend more per capita on education than quite a number of nations that consistently outperform us up to the Graduate School level, where we take the advantage back. But even that advantage is mitigated by the fact that the kids get educated overseas, then come here for grad. school. What saves us, currently, is an awful lot of them stay here.

The basic problem is one of expectation. Parents expect too little of their kids. We have grown used to ignorance and sloppy thinking. The only real mission of educators nowadays, in far too many cases, seems to be to groom out honest opinions from our children, leaving only tolerance as the foundational virtue of our liberal culture.

Tolerance has no content. It is an empty virtue. One sees the intellectual fallout from this here on every Rest Day. Dissent from the Secular Progressive/leftist orthodoxy seems the only sin its' adherents won't tolerate. But they don't know why, and they can't argue it.

6:37

Assisted Pull-ups (100 lbs)...last set was broken
HSPU's w/feet hanging on a squat bar...1st two sets broken.

Barry,
Let me address your point:
--I made no reference to my stance on funding nor rules of engagement so I am not sure where you are coming from.
--It is not a war, it is an occupation. A war would imply we are fighting another army. We have wiped out the Iraqi army and now we are in an occupation. This, I think, is not in debate, even by our own military officials.
--You state that people should come up with strong reasons for an immediate discontinuation of the “war”. Okay, how about our troops shouldn’t be put in harms way because our president has it in for Iraq. How about our troops are in harms way and I think it is clear that there is no “winning” in Iraq, there is only damage control. Let me be clear: I would rather see every person in the middle east die then see one American Soldier get hurt or killed. On that same thread, I have no objection to giving the troops everything and anything they need and footing the bill for it as long as they are there. I am against my family members and our nations best being put in harms way for what amounts to nothing. Even a simple person can figure out that if the armed forces are not in Iraq then they wouldn’t need much in the way of supplies. Do you really think we are there fighting for democracy and peace?
--You mention something about protecting our nation. (I beg you to respond to this one): How is/was Iraq a threat to our safety at home. If you claim it is valid to launch preemptive strikes then please make the argument why we have not attacked North Korea or Iran?
--Can you please make more sense of your Tolerance comments? It seems to be a bit off the thread as you have homogenized leftist orthodoxy with education…check your Venn diagrams, one is not enveloped by the other.
--your comment: “When you trot out an only mildly reworked version of the Air Force--which I'm told is badly underfunded relative to its' current mission requirements--versus bake sale bumpersticker, you are sloganeering, not generating coherent argument.”
What the hell are you talking about?
--Lastly, I get the impression from your post you think I am liberal. I am a libertarian and think our troops should be on our border. Period.

Timmy Da' Noose...

I will give your post a shot.

--It is not a war, it is an occupation. A war would imply we are fighting another army. We have wiped out the Iraqi army and now we are in an occupation. This, I think, is not in debate, even by our own military officials.

Actually it is both...Iraq is being occupied(by the request of their government) but the GWOT continues around the world including inside Iraq

--You state that people should come up with strong reasons for an immediate discontinuation of the “war”. Okay, how about our troops shouldn’t be put in harms way because our president has it in for Iraq. How about our troops are in harms way and I think it is clear that there is no “winning” in Iraq, there is only damage control. Let me be clear: I would rather see every person in the middle east die then see one American Soldier get hurt or killed. On that same thread, I have no objection to giving the troops everything and anything they need and footing the bill for it as long as they are there. I am against my family members and our nations best being put in harms way for what amounts to nothing. Even a simple person can figure out that if the armed forces are not in Iraq then they wouldn’t need much in the way of supplies. Do you really think we are there fighting for democracy and peace?

We disagree that this operation is "nothing". Security is needed for the Fledging government to not fall apart at the seems to extremists.

--You mention something about protecting our nation. (I beg you to respond to this one): How is/was Iraq a threat to our safety at home. If you claim it is valid to launch preemptive strikes then please make the argument why we have not attacked North Korea or Iran?

Iraq was an on going threat...contained yes, growing definately. Why should we attack North Korea? Every country is different. N. Korea has China, Japan and S. Korea keeping it contained. No one was containing Iraq...so the UN let us do it.

--Can you please make more sense of your Tolerance comments? It seems to be a bit off the thread as you have homogenized leftist orthodoxy with education…check your Venn diagrams, one is not enveloped by the other.

Tolerance is being used a s a reason not to teach "reason". Judgements are to be avioded on thoughts and behaviors...unless of course your thoughts or behaviors do not coincide with the Leftist, secular progressive agenda.

--Lastly, I get the impression from your post you think I am liberal. I am a libertarian and think our troops should be on our border. Period

Beats me...however our troops should not be on our border...that is a police action. Troops are meant to kill and break things...cops are for law enforcement.

CCTJOEY,

You did a bang up job responding to my post. I accept some of your points and reject others; and I respect them all as they are well thought out.

One thing though, if our troops kill and break things that are coming across our borders illegally then so be it, it would certainly cut down on the unauthorized border crossings. Oh, and it is not for the cops to do that job IMHO, we need them to protect us from each other :) It is only a no-no to use our troops against an American citizen, the people crossing our borders, while mostly well intentioned they are not citizens.

Thank you for taking the time to leave the feed back.

TimmyTheNoose,

I would fully support military action against both Iran and No. Korea. I believe both would save lives. However, the fact of the matter is that--regardless of what know-nothing leftist whack jobs want to try and argue through their hysterics--the President, while still the Commander in Chief, has no power to declare war, and it was quite challenging getting Congress to in effect declare war with respect to Iraq, when Saddam was clearly in blatant and persistent violation of his terms of ceasefire, entirely uncooperative with weapons inspectors--until we massed 150,000 or whatever troops on his border, and even then he played games--and had a past history of developing WMD's, and USING WMD's.

A good case can be made--and HAS been made, by people who were in a position to know--that he actually DID have WMD programs, and that the materiell was moved to Syria and/or Lebanon. I have argued that here. In the leadup to the war, didn't it occur to people watching that an obvious play was to move the stuff, and hope we got bogged down? I'll post links, if you like. The internet is pretty easy to research, if you have the desire to go outside "the usual suspect" sites.

Thus, the war was not illogical. OBL referenced how easy it was to cow Americans based on our rapid retreat from Somalia after like a couple dozen casualties. As you will recall, he is the principle suspect in orchestrating a massive attack on this nation on 9/11. He seemed to believe that we were weak, and doesn't seem to have had ANY inkling of an idea we could or would hit him in Afghanistan.

Bush wanted to remove Saddam as a threat, dismantle his WMD program--proof of which would have required HUMINT, and we don't do HUMINT very well at all, from what I can tell--and send the message that we are not to be screwed with.

Now, that message can still be sent. You can call this an occupation, but in reality it is a large scale Foreign Internal Defense. We are helping a nation led by a government we helped set up, defend itself from internal terrorism which seems to have as its' explicit purpose the creation of generalized chaos, from which America will presumably run, and from which can be built an Islamofascist state of a Sunni or Shiite stripe.

There is no doubt that many of us thought setting up a new government would be much easier. Patently, mistakes have been made, and opportunities squandered. That doesn't matter. It's a screwed up situation, and it can get much worse. Worst case--and what seems to me a likely case--is another terrorist regime bordering both Iran and Syria. That is the precise OPPOSITE of what we want, and what it will take to prevent it is persistence. Not cutting and running.

Based on your views on war, it is difficult to determine just what wars you would be able to support. Vietnam and Korea are clearly out. WW1 and 2 likewise would seem to be out. Spanish-American War, probably.

Civil War: there's an interesting one. In my view, the law was on the side of the South. Would you have sided with the South? That would, it would seem to me, be the more libertarian view. Mexican-American War? I don't recall if "we" were attacked or not. I don't think we were. Texas wasn't a state. I could be wrong. I do know it was a sort of Vietnam--that we won--in its' day. Thoreau was thoroughly upset. If I'm not mistaken, his opposition was the source of the essay "On the Necessity of Civil Disobedience", which I believe Gandhi read.

Bottom line: my view is that we are there now, that if we leave in the wrong way massive bloodshed will follow. Now, you can ignore the ethical aspect of that entirely and argue that isn't our problem--which many people implicitly seem to want to do, although they seem to prefer avoiding that issue entirely--but it also seems to me that where we have power now to prevent the emergence of another Iran or Taliban, that if we leave, we lose both that power, and the credibility from which that power would largely derive. Nobody would have any reason to believe our "Indian giver" promises anymore. Not worth the paper they are written on.

You state "I think it is clear that there is no “winning” in Iraq, there is only damage control", and I simply don't agree. We have succeeded in Foreign Internal Defense missions many times, in Latin America, and the Phillipines, and although this is probably the biggest one we have had, that is no reason to concede failure now.

I understand both the principles and emotional background of Libertarianism, but the fact of the matter is that we live in a world where we can't afford to wait until threats get to our border. If we don't get them at their source, they may not be catchable here. I wish it were easier, but it isn't.

If the part about tolerance isn't clear, I'll leave it be for now. I have to go.

Barry,
Much of what you say is valid but does not change the fact we have no right to be in Iraq. I know that is a bold statement so let me qualify it to avoid adding to your strife also, allow me to address some of your points:
Regarding military action against Iran and N. Korea. I am with you on Iran because of their stance on Israel but with North Korea, they just want a promise from us not to invade and W did swing first with the axis of evil comment. Too much to discuss on this board with NK and Iran so I will leave it alone and end with the fact that I half agree.
Regarding Saddam having weapons and stalling inspectors. I may take some heat for this one but here goes: SO WHAT! He had no intention or ability to deliver them to the US. That would be like me taking my 22 single shot rifle and attacking my local police station—it would be suicide. Saddam was crazy not suicidal. And furthermore the guy had many local enemies like Iran and others who he needs (needed now I guess) to protect himself from. Think about this: what if the UN or NATO came to our country with troops and demanded to inspect our military facilities. Barry, would you allow it or would you fight it. Lets make it a bit more personal. What if the local Militia came to your house and demanded to search it. Would you make ‘em a cup of coffee while they rifled your wives panty drawer or patted down your kids?
As far as WMD being moved…um, okay …but even child molesters and rapists and killers have to be proved guilty so that is not worthy of discussion. Will all due respect, spare us the links as these posts are longer than average. As far as searching the internet I’ll pass on the “web pages of guilt” since there is no peer review process for posting anything.
Barry you mad the following comment “Thus, the war was not illogical. OBL referenced how easy it was to cow Americans based on our rapid retreat from Somalia after like a couple dozen casualties. As you will recall, he is the principle suspect in orchestrating a massive attack on this nation on 9/11. He seemed to believe that we were weak, and doesn't seem to have had ANY inkling of an idea we could or would hit him in Afghanistan.”
I will ask again, how is 9/11 and Iraq related? Come on man, anyone who catches the news even occasionally knows that OBL and Saddam did not like each other. AQ was not welcome in Iraq and was run out by Saddam’s heavy hand…thanks to the occupation they have found it to be more like the local tavern for meeting and recruiting … Good job America, good job.
You say bush wanted to send a message. Um, okay, I think they know where we stand now. Cn we bring our troops home now? And by the way, I say with great sadness and regret but as far as your comment on America running and Islamo-fascist taking over, that is just what is going to happen. America, I am embarrassed to say does have a history picking on smaller countries only to run at the first sign of trouble. That is our history, I wish it wasn’t, but it is so lets be big enough to admit it and learn from it.
Your comment of my war views: I am sorry if that is unclear but that is also an easy one to make clear, here, I’ll do my best to answer even though the undertone of your comment is inciting and sophomoric …Pre-emptive war as a policy is no good to us as Americans as other countries could then do the same to us. We may be the big kids on the block right now but we are not ten feet tall and bullet proof, we must beware of unintended consequences. I do not think using our troops as international policeman is a good idea as we start more fires than we put out. I am not going to turn this thread into a rambling on past wars and my stances on them in the interest of space, please e-mail me if you really want them as I am happy to engage you on that topic.
Regarding this comment of yours:
“Bottom line: my view is that we are there now, that if we leave in the wrong way massive bloodshed will follow. Now, you can ignore the ethical aspect of that entirely and argue that isn't our problem--which many people implicitly seem to want to do, although they seem to prefer avoiding that issue entirely--but it also seems to me that where we have power now to prevent the emergence of another Iran or Taliban, that if we leave, we lose both that power, and the credibility from which that power would largely derive. Nobody would have any reason to believe our "Indian giver" promises anymore. Not worth the paper they are written on.”
Barry, I would refer to my earlier post about all people in the middle east dying before one American shoulder getting hurt or killed. I wasn’t kidding.
Your other comment “I understand both the principles and emotional background of Libertarianism, but the fact of the matter is that we live in a world where we can't afford to wait until threats get to our border. If we don't get them at their source, they may not be catchable here. I wish it were easier, but it isn't. “
Barry, we cannot go after every country that may be a threat down the road…killing preemptively makes us no different than Saddam.
Lastly, we have beaten this post to death and like mom use to say “when the horse is dead, dismount” so I’ll not be returning to this thread, feel free to e-mail for further debate.
Take care and thank you for the exchange of views.