oo rest day yay =) still gonna run like 3miles

I'm jealous, michael

i need to get my ass into shape. took me 20.57 to do yesterday wod

As for thoughts on the Standard article, the agendas of both 'sides' of the debate can make one just as sick as his creepy smile often does.

oh can anyone give me some advice on what to make rings with? in the military dont see a point in paying for something thats free =)

Michael, check out the FAQs (one of my friends followed those instructions) or you can pick up some of these http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=1242

Eddie, way to represent, Boss!!

CFSD represent!

An interesting read. There are times when the world is a discouraging place and sometimes it seems like there are no easy solutions other than the brash ones that aren't really a solution. Sometimes ideas are all that you need, and an idea, if it is a good one and you have enough followers is hard to kill. But even a bad idea presented with enough pressure or the right influences can go very far. Look at how far Hitler got with his ideas. Is it possible for Iran or North Korea to go as far with their ideas? It's possible but we aren't as niave as a world now, so it might take them longer.
Tomorrow I go to a memorial for a man in my husbands unit and I have organized the reception for the family following it. This isn't my first memorial (I don't have enough fingers to count how many I have been to in the past couple of years), and like deployments they don't get any easier the more you do. It is weeks or days like this that I am worn out with listening to the politicians speak and posture about what is going to happen with whom. It is weeks like this that I am tired of the process of war. I don't have any solutions to the war. I have to focus on smaller pictures of supporting the troops and the families and trust that the right decisions will be made at the right times. With that I continue my prayer for all you guys that are deployed to come home safely and in one piece.

Kate

Treelizard,
Thanks for the site. Yesterdays/ early this morning wod was rough on the handmade rings. Looks like a winner. Thanks again.

No prob, got the idea from someone else.

He's smiling because China needs his oil and we need China to buy our bonds to fund our deficit. So he knows that the US can't touch him.

http://szamko.gnn.tv/blogs/18603/Mr_Ahmadinejad_goes_to_Gotham

Extremely good and thought provoking article. One of the things that handicaps Americans in this post Modern era is our fundamental unwillingness to admit that there is actually Good vs. Evil! Israel does not have that luxury and is able to predict the actions of these tyrants far better than our leaders and intelligence community. We are always trying to see both sides and understand where these dictators are coming from, instead of wiping them out. If you knew rats were living in your basement, you wouldn't try to tame them, you would be poisoning them or trapping/killing them. Hitler deserved the worlds wrath well before he offed about 11 million people, only 6 mil being Jews. Pol Pot deserved to be defeated by us, rather than us pulling out of Vietnam and making the Killing Fields possible. Everytime good people do nothing, Evil triumphs.

#13

Good Vs. Evil? LOL!Come on! You equate Israel with good?

This Israel?:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/083106O.shtml

Apartheid Israel: Uri Davis interview

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1419

The Case for Boycotting Israel

http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley08052006.html

A Long History
Israeli Espionage Against the US

http://www.counterpunch.org/husseini08302004.html

While the article is interesting and raises some interesting points, I don't see much information that lends itself to practical application. Most right minded people agree that Islamism in general and Iran in particular is a serious threat to peace and stability in the international community.

Stating that point as a given, what do we do about it? Our armed forces are currently strained beyond what they can sustain and both Iran and North Korea know it. We cannot seriously threaten them militarily, which is why they are choosing this time to "act up". I believe our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan are vital, but I do not understand why we did not begin increasing troop strength levels immediately after 9/11. We simply need more bodies to continue to project force internationally. Our old "Two Major Regional Contingencies" strategy is currently a pipe dream, thanks to the Clinton Administration's gutting of the military and the Bush Administration's not correcting that error.

At present we are not in a position to project force against either N. Korea or Iran. That is a big part of the reason Iran is working so hard to foment ethnic violence in Iraq. Once Iraq is stable, we will be free to deal with Iran militarily. As long as Iraq is unstable, we will be toothless elsewhere and Iran will be free to act without fear of serious reprisal.

Hey coach, just wanted to give a huge thanks to you for starting, and now implementing the evolve in the Cdn Army fitness protocol. We've needed it for a long time, and the effect is infectious. I started CF a year and a half ago, I requested endlessly since to get on the cert you ran in Edmonton in August, only to be gone. We have the right facility, coaches, and philosophy shift to now to get our boys fit so they can concentrate on not sucking wind through their tailpipe over there. See you on the next cert.

Why is Ahmadinejad Smiling?
based on the article, because he believes in what he is doing
The better question should be "Why isn't President Bush Smiling?"
I'm not quite certain what he believes in. I know he states things clearly but I get this feeling he's just saying what he thinks we want to hear and is doing things for other, not so altruistic, reasons.

#8 - Kate - Thank you. Thank you for looking at the smaller picture and seeing that there are people in it.

Look! Coach is wearing fancy pants! I don't think I've ever seen him in anything but jeans!

the moral equivalency stance is a lemminglike affliction, plain and simple. To state otherwise is to say that allowing the world sought by Muslim fundamentalists ((a) mass murder of civilians, largely based on their race or religion, on far, far grander a scale than the worst the Israelis have ever done, for example, were one to take the stance that Israel does not act in legitimate self-defense (b) elimination of freedoms (yes, again far grander in scale than the worst the consveratives could offer(c) economic effects thereof) to prevail would be equally as desirable or undesirable as that which American conservatives would envision. One doesn't have to be a conservative to say that (I'm far from being one, or from being a Bush fan.) Recently read an excellent op-ed by a liberal theologician to this effect.

but wait - that was obvious. sorry.

The scariest part of the article, to me, is Rafsanjani's belief that destructive retaliatory strikes would be well worth attaining the goal of destroying Israel. Basically, mutually assured destruction no longer holds as a deterrent. It's like the goverment is willing to create one big collective suicide bomb attack. This regime cannot be allowed to have nukes.

(Though my belief is that no one should be allowed to have nukes; that might be a bit more controversial around here ;) )

Who is the handsome man in the red shirt???? ;-)

Oops, I mean "CFSD"...

Crossfit has even improved my eyesight. I can actually SEE those Cannucks in camoflage.

I miss those days from this summer when some of the rest days had thought provoking fitness-related reading.

Go Eddie! Looking great coach!

# 17- Travis-
By all means Thank You for what you are doing. It is important that we remember who, as individuals are fighting for us and it is equally important to support them. If I can help carry a family's burden for a moment and give them comfort or show a soldier that that people care about them and what they are doing so they can focus on what is at hand by sending care packages, then maybe it helps make the world a better place. Stay safe.

Kate

"when he speaks of wiping Israel off the face of the earth"

This has been repeatedly and conclusively debunked. It is simply not what he said, even if he does mean it.

The article goes downhill from there IMO.

http://www.arbeiterfotografie.com/galerie/kein-krieg/index.html

Translation from German for all interested.

Also,I would like to provide this link as I know most info people get from the middle east is of a pro-Israeli,anti Muslim/Arab slant.

Summary:

:Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East, zeroing in on how structural distortions in U.S. coverage have reinforced false perceptions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This pivotal documentary exposes how the foreign policy interests of American political elites--oil, and a need to have a secure military base in the region, among others--work in combination with Israeli public relations strategies to exercise a powerful influence over how news from the region is reported.

Through the voices of scholars, media critics, peace activists, religious figures, and Middle East experts, Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land carefully analyzes and explains how--through the use of language, framing and context--the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza remains hidden in the news media, and Israeli colonization of the occupied terrorities appears to be a defensive move rather than an offensive one. The documentary also explores the ways that U.S. journalists, for reasons ranging from intimidation to a lack of thorough investigation, have become complicit in carrying out Israel's PR campaign. At its core, the documentary raises questions about the ethics and role of journalism, and the relationship between media and politics."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=Propaganda

Logistical Information:
Co-Directors: Bathsheba Ratzkoff & Sut Jhally
Producer: Bathsheba Ratzkoff
Executive Producer: Sut Jhally
Editors: Kenyon King & Bathsheba Ratzkoff

Interviewees include Seth Ackerman, Mjr. Stav Adivi, Rabbi Arik Ascherman, Hanan AshrawiRobert Fisk, Neve Gordon, Toufic Haddad, Sam Husseini, Hussein Ibish, Robert Jensen, Rabbi Michael Lerner, Karen Pfeifer, Alisa Solomon, and Gila Svirsky.

Seth Ackerman Media Analyst and Contributing Writer, Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR)

Mjr. Stav Adivi, IDF (Reserves) Courage to Refuse | Board Member, Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, Israel

Rabbi Arik Ascherman Executive Director, Rabbis for Human Rights

Hanan Ashrawi Founder & Secretary General, The Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue and Democracy (MIFTAH), Palestine

Robert Fisk Journalist, The Independent, UK

Neve Gordon Ta'ayush: Jewish-Arab Partnership | Professor of Political Science, Ben Gurion University, Israel

Toufic Haddad Co-editor, Between the Lines, West Bank

Sam Husseini Communications Director, Institute for Public Accuracy

Hussein Ibish Communications Director, American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee

Robert Jensen Professor of Journalism, University of Texas-Austin | Board of Directors, Third Coast Activist

Rabbi Michael Lerner Founder & Executive Director, Tikkun Magazine

Karen Pfeifer Professor or Economics, Smith College | Contributing Editor, Middle East Research and Information Project (MERIP)

Alisa Solomon Journalist, The Village Voice

Gila Svirsky Co-founder, Women in Black | Coalition of Women for Peace, Israel

#14, #17, and #26

I think this shoould be your new slogan

"confuse, distract, abate, compromise, undermine"

Chamberlain for President

http://www.learningcurve.gov.uk/snapshots/snapshot31/snapshot31.htm

When will we learn.

Sam:

Please provide a link to support your assertion that Ahmadinejad's remarks about wiping Israel off the face of the earth have been conclusively debunked.

has anyone used blast straps instead of rings for the dips etc.?
You can see them by viewing products and then best sellers at www.elitefts.com
Just wanted to see as a place here sells a similiar version.
Just as a temporary substitute for days when the ability to use rings is out.

Elizabeth - 8:50 (I'm doing the workouts 1 day removed)

Kate #8

I believe your head is in the right place. Keep on supporting, it is exhausting but as you know better than I do it is the right thing to do.

Harry MacD #28

It doesn't matter what "links" Sam provides. We all know what Ahmadinejad said because we all saw/heard it. This isn't rocket science.

If you are pro-Israel then it makes you sick and mad. If your anti-Israel then you grasp at straws and try to provide an "itellectual" reasoning on why someone would say such a thing.

Chris C, I thought, put it very well.

More pictures of Eva T please.

Harry MacD
wrote
"Sam:

Please provide a link to support your assertion that Ahmadinejad's remarks about wiping Israel off the face of the earth have been conclusively debunked."

The times has put the full text of the speech on the net

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/weekinreview/30iran.html

Which has the paragraph with the offending statement:

"Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks.

Which according to the times translators indicates that Ahmedinejad is clearly talking about the regime instead of the people. For the times to continue, up to and including the page that links to the full text, to claim that he is calling for "Israel" to be wiped off the map (which is ambiguous as to whether it means the people or the regime, and which in this episode has usually been interpreted as "the people") in full knowledge that Ahmadinejad explicitly said "the regime" crosses the line to willful deception.

People who bought the line of the times and other media outlets uncritically qualify as stooges.

The final outcome that Ahmedinejad hopes for is also explicitly described in the speech:

The issue of Palestine is not over at all. It will be over the day a Palestinian government, which belongs to the Palestinian people, comes to power; the day that all refugees return to their homes; a democratic government elected by the people comes to power. Of course those who have come from far away to plunder this land have no right to choose for this nation.

From the sounds of this, Ahmedinejad would deny Jews "who come from far away" the right to vote in his Palestine, but there is, to say the least, no indication that genocide is being advocated. It is possible that Ahmedinejad advocates denying the vote even to Jews who were born in Israel. But based on his words "come from far away", he cannot fairly be accused of even that.

It is a common rhetorical tactic on the part of defenders of zionism to conflate the implementation of a democratic government that treats Jews and non-Jews equally - and without guarantees of a what Zionists consider a sufficient Jewish majority - with genocide.

In the case of the times here, it is clear that this conflation is deliberately designed to mislead and emotionally manipulate readers. In other cases, it may just be unwittingly naive and linked to a subtle bigotry that elevates the rights and concerns of Jews above the rights and concerns of non-Jews, even of greater numbers of non-Jews.

Rather than an indictment of Iran, this entire episode is a shameful display of deliberate deception and manipulation employed by sympathizers with Zionism in mainstream news sources such as the New York Times. "

Also

"A dispatch by Reuters confirms 2006-02-21: "The Iranian Foreign Minister Manuchehr Mottaki has [...] repudiated that his state would want the Jewish state Israel 'wiped off the map'. [...] Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. 'Nobody can erase a country from the map.' Ahmadinejad was not thinking of the state of Israel but of their regime [...]. 'We do not accredit this regime to be legitimate.' [...] Mottaki also accepted that the Holocaust really took place in a way that six million Jews were murdered during the era of National Socialism."

RTC wrote "It doesn't matter what "links" Sam provides. We all know what Ahmadinejad said because we all saw/heard it. This isn't rocket science."

You speak Farsi?

#27 - falloutshelter - That slogan wouldn't work for me, I'm a soldier not a politican. I've stood in the line of fire and I know that I'm doing what I believe in. I can smile when I tell you about the job I've done.

Don't blame the bullet that kills you, don't blame the gun that fired it. Look to the hand that pulls the trigger.

It has taken me a long time to come to this point, but I have finally realized, in full, the destructive impact of the mental glue that leftists put out. It's an adhesive that binds ideas in place, with no access to the air of genuinely critical thought. It creates a machinery that puts out the same tired BS, without any possibility of change.

I have never had any interest in reading Sartre. From what I knew of him as a person, he was a bigotted bully, who chain smoked, took speed, and refused to brush his teeth.

But he had "passion", we are told. Passion, for leftists, is what you live for. It's the romanticism of movies like Il Postino, or The Titanic. The person with the "Grand Cause" is the person who is REALLY living. The schlubs, the kleinburgers, the petits bourgeois who just go to work, get married, have kids, and grandkids, and die, they are not REALLY living. He, Sartre, he was better than that. So was Pol Pot. So was Hitler. So is Ahmadinejad.

Some people get excited about baseball. Some people about motorcycles. Some people opera. The content, or supposed support for the passion is secondary to its' extent, in this formulation.

In this case, I think his analysis of Herr A. is spot on. You see, "the people" don't really exist outside of his narcissistic fancy. Although they might actually exist, and might actually die, that is secondary to their place in his vision, which gives him passion. His raison d'etre. This all seems clear enough.

Yet, in this country, and worse in Europe, we have the same damn disease on the part of leftists, who have so perverted debates about national security that we are unable to do things that would not only enhance our security, but enhance global peace, human rights, and result in much LESS murder and bloodshed.

I developed an idea some time ago that I don't know if I've mentioned on this site, which I call the Law of the Conservation of Belief. It states that beliefs can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed.

What is belief? It is a contingent idea about something remote in time or space. Something that is going to happen, already happened, happening somewhere else, or happening ambiguously in front of you. As such, it is a form of contingent perception. In the same way I act to move out of the way of an oncoming car after seeing it, I act to avoid other things, like obesity, by taking action now, based on a belief. Note, too, though, that I avoid the car based on a belief it would kill me. I've never been hit by a car, but I believe it would be bad. Belief saves me from the necessity of doing that experiment.

Beliefs change over time. I may go from conservative to liberal, or vice versa. However, I retain contingent ideas about reality. A childs belief that burners that don't look hot can't be hot changes quickly, but the place-holder "belief" is retained.

The fallacy of this Year One crap is precisely this. The thought is that by destroying old beliefs, that new ones--the correct ones--will automatically take hold. However, if the new beliefs are stupid, the old beliefs will be retained. No amount of destruction will change this. And the people doing the destroying are not the same people who are supposed to be benefitting.

In point of fact, strongly held beliefs are energizing. This is the drug that the destroyers take. This sustained the Nazis, and Stalinists, and Khmer Rouge. Now, there is a natural synergy between true believers are garden variety sadists, which is always in place, but the main point is that, again, the CONTENT of the belief is always secondary to the EXTENT of the belief for these people. That makes them naturally adept at lying, and absolutely disinterested in the actual efficacy or value of their ideas.

You know what? If A. nukes Israel (assuming they don't nuke him first), and Israel destroys large sections of Iran, the Hidden Imam is not going to appear. According to their own theology, behavior down here has no effect up there. A. knows this, on some level. That makes him effectively, in my view, a suicidal fanatic mainly interested in a fun ride down that final tunnel.

Bush could likely authorize an air strike without declaring war. I don't think he could get a declaration of war through congress because of the moral weakness leftist relativism has created in our nation. That makes it doubly ironic how they love to point out how the war in Iraq has made us less able to fight in Iran and No. Korea, when they were the same ones arguing for force reductions, and also would in no case support a war with either of those nations anyway.

Gee, Sam. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm so relieved that this holocaust-denying messianic zealot with the direct connection to God who ardently seeks the apocalypse to hasten the return of the 12th imam and is hell-bent on getting nuclear weapons only wants to exterminate the Israeli regime, and not its people. What a comforting clarification you have offered! What shame on the New York Times for obscuring Ahmadinejad's humanitarian purposes! Do tell us more of how the Jews will flourish under dhimmitude, citing the many examples in the history of Islam where that has occurred.

Here is a link for you Harry MacD

http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=1805

(quoting linked article)
He said “Lots of hopeless people ask whether a world without America or Zionism is possible or not”? And then, added that the answer to this question is absolutely positive as the same thing was happened in Iran Monarchy case, USSR case and Saddam dictatorship case. He pointed out that the famous iron curtain collapsed and it can be found only in history books nowadays.

He told that “A recent similar case is Saddam, who assumed himself immortal and eternal, but today his legs and arms are chained and he is adjudicated by his former collaborators today” and following these examples he made a quotation from the Imam Khomeini’s speech and said “As the Imam said, the Occupier regime of al-Qods must be wiped off the map”. Than he continued to defend the Palestinians right of having their own territories and own government. The rest of his speech is about supporting Palestine in their justified case, confronting Zionist regime and warning other Islamic countries not to make cooperation with Israel.
(quotation stops)

It seems as if Iran's monarchy, the USSR and Baathist Iraq have all recently been wiped off the map.

And while the word Israel could either refer to every person in the population of the nation Israel or it could refer to the regime or government Ahmedinejad did not actually use the word "Israel". He used the term "occupier regime of al-Qods" which pretty clearly refers to a regime as opposed to a population.

I'm not sure that in real life this charge is all that genocidal.

But don't mind me. I'll let you resume your orgy of demonization of Iran at this point."

Another point made by Ray McGovern :

"What we have here is that Israel does feel threatened. Why? Because the Israelis have a nuclear monopoly now in the Middle East, and most people believe they have about 300 nuclear weapons which they can fire from missiles and submarines and whatever else. And Iran and their other neighbors have none.

Now, if Iran were to develop a nuclear weapon, would that be a threat to Israel's security? I don't think so. They'd have to be suicidal to mount an attack on Israel because they would be obliterated. What would it give Iran? It would give Iran a certain modicum of what we used to call deterrence. It's a word that's dropped out of the vocabulary of Washington but it worked for 40 years after WWII. It would give them a measure of deterrence. So if the Iranians, say 10 years from now, saw the Israelis about to pounce on Syria and do what they are doing to Lebanon, in this case to Syria, perhaps the Ayatollahs would say, "Now wait a minute, we know of your plans. Don't think that you can do this with impunity."

And this would give the Israelis pause. Up until now, they have had free reign, they have been unencumbered in doing whatever they hell they please in the West Bank, in Gaza, and now in Lebanon, with the support of the US government and military, and they don't want to lose that kind of freedom of action. So they are hell bent on preventing Iran from becoming a nuclear power. In that sense they see a threat."

Trevor, # 29.

I use 25mm sewn webbing in 120 cm length http://tinyurl.com/svpcx as a sub for when I don't have my rings with me. Just girth hitch them over a bar at an appropriate height (I just use the cross-bar in the squat rack).

This part was interesting:

"1. The main topic of the organization was “liberation of Al-Qods and anti-zionism”
2. The hostility among two countries is not a secret
3. Anti-zionism is a pillar policy of Islamic Republic of Iran since its existence"

So, saying "down with the damn Yids" is nothing new. You know, that's the truth for once.

Sam and Joe,

Help me out here. What global body--that is now the basis for most denunciations of Israel and the United States--authorized the founding of Israel?

Did the Jews arrive from the sea like Vikings, raping and pillaging all of the peaceful villagers, or was Israel invaded immediately by neighboring Arab nations?

It might be helpful to attain at least a modicum of clarity on those two points.

Yeah, right. 25 years of chanting "Death to israel" and "Death to the USA" and his 12th imam zealotry have no bearing on Ahmadinejad's meaning here. Him saying that the "Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation" is really of no concern and anyone who adverts to such statements is engaging in an orgy of demonization. What he really means by "annihilation" and "wiping off the map" and "Death to Israel" is a peaceful consensual transition from the current Israeli government to a radical Islamic state under Sharia law, and that Jews will enjoy the full blessings of liberty, justice and equality under such a government. Iran's status as a terror master and sponsorship of Hamas, Hezbollah, and the dozens if not hundreds of violent terrorist attacks against Israel and the US that it sponsors are no cause for concern.

Brevity being the sould of wit, you could shorten your posts to "death to israel" and be done with it.

Some of these remarks about Clinton dismantling the US military capability are patently untrue. The Clinton administration merely continued the major reductions put in motion by the Bush Sr. administration. Somewhere along the line these people got the idea that high technology trumps all and the conventional warfighting capability should be deemphasized. To this day Rumsfeld subscribes to this mentality in a big way. The best way to support the troops in addition to supplying them with all the essential material support is to ensure that the leadership has an effective strategic plan for victory at minimal cost, and this is where the troops have been sorely let down by the neoconservative administration in a very big way. The Bush administraion, populated by scoundrel politicians whose only service has been a life long endeavor of self-service, self-enrichment, and self-advancement, ran rough shod over the career military professionals, commited people who worked hard to develop their expertise at great personal sacrifice and with great dedication, resulting in several major strategic errors that have made the situation in Iraq irreparable. The American people should be mad as hell!

Sam,

Hrm. Ok, so let's assume that your interpretation is right, "genocide" was never his stated intention, but regime change is. The big question is, regime change to what, and how would this new regime treat the jewish populace?

You seem to think that while this new palestine that replaces the state of Israel will admittedly deny citizenship/rights to "those who have come from far away," they will treat naturally-born jews just fine. In fact, you believe that what Ahmedinejad wants is "the implementation of a democratic government that treats Jews and non-Jews equally." This sounds to me either incredibly naive or incredibly disingenuous. Do you have *any* support for the idea that Ahmedinejad wants to treat jews with equality instead of repression and expulsion? Because the latter seems much more likely. How the hell could "those who have come from far away to plunder this land" refer to anything *other* than the zionist jews as a whole, including their descendants who were naturally born in the region?

The benefit of the doubt you're giving Ahmedinejad is not warranted. I don't even believe that the intentions of our own country are totally pure when our president talks of "regime change" of an oppressive dictatorship; and yet here's Ahmedinejad speaking of regime change of a representative democracy, and you believe *his* intentions are pure? His exact words may be technically vague on certain points, but I think the fact that he's never *explicitly* clarified and said that he has no gripe with the jewish *people* speak volumes. The worst has to be assumed, and in this case, the worst is pretty darned likely.

Harry, Barry, etc.
Might as well save some typing: "Joe" and "Sam" are the same person, so no point in debating him/her separately. Just call him/her "Josham"...

Sam,

last I checked Israel had quite a vibrant democracy. I.e. A Government that represents quite accurately the will of its people, unlike, say, N. Korea, or perhaps even Iran. Recognizing that, any statement such as the “regime must be wiped off the map” sounds very much like a call for genocide. You seem to be defending him by basically saying that “all” he advocates is that the Israeli population not be able to have political representation. Maybe he actually cares deeply for the Israeli people and wishes only to save them from the evil regime that is currently holding them hostage?

silly people smile at the wrong time, reminds me of a picture of a child molester.

This is my first full week doing Crossfit...I hurt all over...Thanks for the great advice. This is an incredible community.

The political banter is an amusing aspect of the Crossfit family. I tend to regard arguing on the Internet as part of a populist nightmare, but it is not enough to keep me off the board today.

Thanks for the knowledge and motivation...

WHAT THE?!!! Sooo...this is why I haven't seen Eddie in a while. He's gone Hollywood.

Looking good shoremate!

CFSD what time is it?
Time to get live,..time to REPRESENT

Eddie,
smile dude you're going to scare all the little Canadian troopies! And quit using the 12 pound med ball a big boy like you should be using the 20 ;)

Sam, I do not speak Farsi.

Is that it?

RobertP,

I'm guessing you know what you're talking about from personal experience. The problem is that it's hard to place pressure accurately on people when they know their core demographic--however much they may screw up--won't desert them. However many issues military folks may have had with Clinton, my guess is they are still happier with Bush.

The broader issue is the hijack of the Democratic Party by leftists. They can blackmail mainstream members--as recommended by a link on a previous Rest Day--through many methods. Call some people racist, even if it isn't even remotely true, and they melt. Jesse Jackson made a lot of money that way. Take over leadership of unions, and then make donations contingent on certain unrelated policy positions. etc.

The discussion today, on that side of the house, is not about various solutions. It's about "are we a demonic, evil nation, or not?" Is the US the Axis of Evil? In effect, this discussion is about "should the US even bother to pursue it's strategic interests?" Should we apologize to the world for even existing? Stalin was a smart man. He started the explicity propaganda campaign, and stupid people are continuing it. "Useful Idiots", Lenin called them, in their protean state.

Our national debate on Iraq should be about tactics for winning, not about timing for our "cut and run". But in that climate, it becomes difficult. That's why people that make any effort at all to get real about our problems and at least attempt some solution, are to be valued over people who don't even want to talk about solutions. If our national debate were a marriage, I would recommend a divorce. And effectively, that's what has happened.

Intelligent people need to make every effort, every chance they get, to stamp out what could be called the "stupid virus". It's the virus which does considerable violence to the facts in an effort to minimize the violence of others. It's the virus that blames Israel for reacting militarily, and imperfectly, to an unprovoked rocket attack.

This is so manifestly, blatantly dumb, that intelligent people are tempted to dismiss it as the ravings of childish idiots. But these idiots are professors and journalists and novelists and artists, and they achieve considerable mindshare among the gullible and ignorant.

BTW, Eddie, good pic. Coach, you too.

I'm guessing that's one of those nasty 100 lb'ers or whatever. Good fun.

As Rxd

He's smiling at the semi-ironic fact that china needs his oil to make all of the horrid crap we buy at walmart. Although, if walmart sold some gymnastics rings made in china... ;)

RobertP..

That is the most wrong headed assesment of what happened to the military I think I have ever heard. I was there and I am here.

The Clinton administration did its best to undermine, through neglect and political correctness, ever strength that the US military could bring to bear along with the congressional Democratsfor his two first years in office. They did everything they could to rape the military and the inteligence services of their abilitiy to function beyond the minimum. I am talking new weapons programs, ammo allocation, training budgets, etc. The Clinton administration was a train wreck.

The only saving grace for the military in the 90's was the Rebulicans rise to power in the both houses of congress.

When the Bush administration can into power the military breathed a big sigh of relief...

You blame of Rumsfeld is mis-guided and typical. Though Rumsfeld might have a certain style of leadership that many of the Clinton appointed Generals did not like. You know he cares about the military. Not so with the precceeding SECDEF.

I hear critics mention two things...body armor and armored HMMWVs...over and over as some how Rumsfeld fault.

Let me clarify...The Army and the Marine Corps did not ask for these items. There was reason to. First off the most units did not need Armored HMMWVs since they are maintenance intensive and severly limit the capabilities of the HUMMER...which was used primarily as a an off-road vehicle. Now it is being used in Iraq as a convoy vehicle...which it was not designed to do.

Body armor...this is an interestinfg development in that out side of flak vests...armor was not used much. Also the vehicles were not designed for full up kitted guys to get in and out of doors and hatches quickly.

So spare us your disertation of "Neo-Cons" and military...if any thing they took us more serious than liberals ever did.

Just admit why you hate Neo-Cons...because they left the liberal ranks and actually made an effort to help the military and defend this country.

The most the libs have done is try to 1. unionize the military after the Federal Employees unions in hopes of locking in support. 2. Turn military members into pity cases by explioting pay issues several years ago, while voting against every pay increase for the 25 years prior. Luckily 95% of the military did not by into it. Libs can try to change their tone and say they want "body armor" and pay increases..but most of us know better. So the left can stop with the half hearted attemps to buy votes and support with the "welfare" mentality they try to push on the troops.

It does not help that at least 1/3 of leftists are anti-military overtly and another 1/3 covertly. The lefts support of Cindy Sheehan exposed the left's real agenda. We in the military know it and see it. That is why overwhelming support for Bush and Co. has been granted from the military.

Americans should be pissed about the left's constant and relentless efforts to turn Troops into victims on and off the battlefield.

Trying to catch up on past workouts. Building a shed, and trying to get it done before it starts to snow.

3 mile run, sit-ups, followed by "Diane". First time doing DL, so only went with 145lbs 21-15-9 to get the hang of it. Tried hand-stand pushups for first time, didn't have a partner around to hold me, almost broke my neck. Settled for rounds of shoulder presses (21-15-9 with 45's) and dumbell curls (10-10-10 with 30's). Can definitely load up more next time.

I'm hooked on CF, glad I finally started last week. My old routine seems very boring all of a sudden.

Same goes for Muscle and Fitness, since I started CF last week, the magazine feels very tired, like I've read the same thing 10 times over (compared to the innovative ideas in the CF Journal I've read). I just received a subscription renewal card, and I won't be filling it out. Will be getting a subscription to the CF journal instead.

To Joe, Sam, etc..

You guys need to read up on history. Israel has always been one that has to defend their existence. Even in the 6 day war they had to take an offenseive strategy before they were to get annilated by the military build up by the numerous Arab nations.

7 million jews in a middle east of 190 million. So are you guys telling me they are bringing down the Muslims! Come on guys.

Hey-

Just a note to the new guys.

I'm a thrower and I spend my summertime outside throwing heavy things (i.e., stones, weights, hammers, cabers n'such) with my friends. Its really nice to be around new guys because they often throw a new personal best (PB) or personal record (PR), ... while its quite less often for us old guys. When the new guy get a new PR, the world is a warm and sunny place; but when the older guys fail to throw a new PR for a few months/years, they get frustrated, begin to lose interest and soon will talk of retiring. We often say to each other, "Its all about the PRs!"

This CF concept has a long list of workouts to strive for new personal bests and PRs. And within each named workout there is a number of variables that can make for additional little successes. This motivating effect of the PR is surprisingly strong. Its nice to be around people who are excited about working hard and achieving new personal bests.

Its all about the PRs!

Best of luck in your training,

-K

Too much crap on the brain - had to burn some of it out...

For Time:

100 single leg high step-ups - 50/leg
50 push -ups
25 towel pull-ups
25 L-pull-ups
50 Box jumps
25 OHS @ 65lbs
50 Sit-ups

T - 19:56

Sam/Joe,
Dirka dirka, Mohammad jihad.

My only question is this: How are those rights for women coming along in that idyllic state we call Iran?

Thought so.

Coach,
Looking buff, dude.

Get some, Eddie! Yeah!

Oh, for #27:

Sorry to inform you, Wilt is dead. So much for your Chamberlain for president idea. I'd like to imagine a United States with the Stilt in charge. One thing I know, there'd be lots o' lovin' going on.

(that is the Chamberlain you were referring to, yes?)

Barry,

"What is belief? It is a contingent idea about something remote in time or space. "

You may want to take a close look at Sartre, or if not at Sartre, then at least at Heidegger.

What Sartre referred to as 'existentialism' is a way of thought that has come into being now for a reason, in response to very definite problems in the modern philosophical tradition. Existentialism and the political phenomena that seem to be connected with it will not simply go away or change without thinking through modernity and its problems.

"What is belief? It is a contingent idea about something remote in time or space."

"efficacy or value of their ideas."

The philosophical positions that you're confronting are devoted in great part to the critique these modern ways of approaching the way in which things appear to us and the way we think thoughts. Simply venting one's spleen against those who dislike modernity may be briefly satisfying, but in my opinion only a thorough thinking-through of the modern tradition, the traditions over and against this tradition was erected, and the challenge to this tradition, will have any desirable effect, political or philosophical.

Some personal thoughts on Iran

I had the good fortune to be doing business development in Iran over a period of 2 years from august 02 to 04. This involved many trips into the country and eventually living there and encountering all stratas of society from business, ministers, the odd cleric and quite a few fruit sellers. The one overriding impression I was left with was that most Iranians don't really know whats going on. They have their own personal theories, but they don't really know. Its like walking into a hall of mirrors, you change your position, or the mirror your looking at, and your whole view of the situation changes completely. Its a country of contradictions and conundrums.

So how should we try to interpret what is going on? Firstly, its a mistake to assume that any politician in Iran has any real power. They tend to be technocrats, very well educated, smart and able to talk in detail about complex issues. However they are not the real decision makers. The real decision makers are all behind the scenes, and no foreign government or businessmen has a hope in hell of either getting access to them, or finding out what's going on. When the President of Iran speaks, just be aware that he does not speak with the same mandate as say the President of the USA, or the Prime Minister of Great Britain.

There is also a huge internal debate going on within the clergy in Iran. Since the revolution, the clergy have effectively run the show, but in the intervening 25 odd years, quite a few of them have realized they have made a hash of governing the country. They realize that to be a good politician you have to have a clear set of principles, but also an element of ruthlessness and cunning that would make a priest blush. They feel that the day to day business of governing is corrupting the clergy, and they want to move away from that. You can see this all the time on the motor-way when a cleric tries to hail a taxi, the driver will often drive past even if he has no one in his cab. At the moment it looks like the old guard have the upper hand, but its by no mean a foregone conclusion.

Whilst we should take serious note of Ahmadinejads words on Israel, we should not take them fully at face value. If we react overtly and strongly to them, we give the old guard an external threat to unite against, and we will end up with the one thing we don't want. A bunch of nutters with nukes. Our actions should be to strengthen the clergy who do not wish to govern so they can move the country forward internally. Unfortunately, putting Iran firmly and very publicly in the 'Axis of Evil' has given the old guard every reason to arm up quickly and protect itself. But thats water under the bridge.

Also, whilst the West or Israel does not have the military or economic strength to prevent Iran from ever acquiring nuclear weapons, our best option now is to ensure the foundations are made for a stable and relatively peaceful country that can coexist with its neighbors. The other piece of good news is that demographics 'could' be on our side. Iran has a huge population under 30 years old, they don't remember the Shah, they have only lived under the revolution. They are educated, curious and want more from life they they currently have. They need to be cultivated and emboldened so that they change the country from within.

If you get the chance, go and visit. Its not what you think.

Ross,

Could you translate that? What you just said sounded distressingly like one of those long speed-induced passages in "L'etre et le (la?) rien" I've scanned in the bookstore before getting dizzy and going for some Zone carrot cake and strong coffee.

Iran is going to wipe out the government without destroying the people. Well Hitler sure did wipe out a number of governments, and he didn't kill any one who wasn't directly oposing him. Except for gypsies, homosexuals, any child not considered "normal", invalids, the elderly and anyone not arian that he could find an excuse for. And that was just in his own country.

By the tone of Iran's president, how can anyone believe his views are much differnt? Appeasement of the Nazi's led to WWII, so hey, lets just sit back and watch history repeat itself, just because we want to give that poor little middle eastern country a fair shake.

Barry & Ross:

Quoth the best graffiti I ever saw:

"Existentialism is the prophylactic of the mind f*ck."

Ross #64, Excellent post. Thanks.

Some might find this excerpt interesting. It is from a 2003 article by John Patrick Diggins. The whole article is an attempt to debunk the idea that neoconservatives (or conservatives) were responsible for defeating communism.

"Liberals should take pride in the end of the Cold War. Commentary [the conservative magazine] was reluctant to acknowledge the Eastern European forces of freedom that courageously took to the streets to overthrow communism, in part because the surprising phenomenon represented the three great antagonists of conservatism: the youth culture, the intellectuals of the '60s generation and the laboring classes that still favored Solidarity over individualism. American neoconservatives like William J. Bennett are haunted by the crisis of authority at home and see knowledge threatened by skepticism everywhere. In Why We Fight, Bennett claims that we are in Iraq to take a stand for truth and to rescue "moral clarity" from the quicksand of liberal "pseudosophisticated relativism." But in Eastern Europe, intellectuals took a stand for courage without certainty. "For my generation, the road to freedom began in 1968," recalls the historian Adam Michnik, who wrote of the members of the Solidarity union movement in his Letters From Prison. The playwright Vaclav Havel, associated with Charter 77 and the Prague Spring, took his bearings from the metaphysical anxieties of Martin Heidegger and the existential meditations of Franz Kafka and Samuel Beckett. Against totalitarianism such writers stood for skepticism, irony, uncertainty, and a refusal to believe in and yield to an authority that prefers to possess truth rather than pursue it. Soviet communism ended the way American liberalism began: "Resist much; obey little," as Walt Whitman wrote."

link to full article: http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/11/diggins-j.html

For a more academic history of liberal anticommunism, see: Totalitarianism Revisited
By Anson Rabinbach
Summer 2006
http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=660

Eddie- I think a future carreer has been found. First a Canadian Army publication, next the cover of "Mens Fitness". Take care bro.

Lunch time make-up WOD, did "Elizabeth" and posted ystd. Increased weight on cleans 20# to 85 and did ring dips for first time.

10:16

WOW!! Totally new dimension with the rings, and it's amazing how much more hurt there is with just a little more weight on the cleans.

As always, profound thanks to you, Coach, and to the CF community at large.

Darrell

Personally, I blame the French for all this. That guy in the article, Ali Shariati, who started the radical Shia movement in Iran, he got all his crazy Marxist ideas while in France. While in exile the Ayatollah Khomeni lived in France. Yasser Arafat kept his wives, daughters, and stolen millions in France. Coincidence? I think not.

Who supplied Saddam with arms, nuclear technology and money during the international boycott of Iraq? France.

The French invented the police state, socialism, deconstruction of literature, and smelly cheese. Almost all the perverse ideologies that led to the slaugter of so many millions in the 20th century had their intellectual beginnings in France. They belong in the axis of evil.

As for Ahmandinejad, it is probably wise to pay closer attention to his statements to other Muslims than to his speeches for western audiences, such as his address to the UN. According to the Koran, it's perfectly ethical to lie to unbelivers in order to spread Islam. But even in his words to the west, his intentions are clear enough. In both his letter to Bush and his letter to the German president, he called upon them to accept Islam. He did this in the exact same language that preceded the Muslim attack on Constantinople centuries ago. It is a traditional offer required by Islamic doctrine prior to initiating an attack, and is a pretty clear indication that he plans to initiate attacks soon.

Dan...

Thank you for reminding me where a large amount blame should go (outside the despots themselves).

I will blame France too. Talk about a country that talks like it wants to lead then appeases at every chance it can.

Hey Dan,
The French also gave us some wine, a type of fry, a way to kiss, a tickler, and Bridget Bardot.

They're almost even.

# 35 Travis L.

Likewise, I am not a politician and have stood under fire. The slogan was not intended for you rather those who live by the slogan, “peace at any and all costs.” I was making a comparison between Chamberlin and the situation in N.Korea and Iran.

Has anybody out there read Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq by Thomas Ricks? If so, what are your thoughts? I just finished it last night... When I saw the title I thought it would be a left wing hatchet job but in actuality I thought it was a very balanced look at the lead into the war and the war/counterinsurgency that is being waged there by our troops.

# 63, Nelson

I was referring to that Chamberlain.

Dirka, Dirka go Team America.

Now act Gary!!!

Josam,

Still waiting.

Flog,

Why wasn't Western Europe overrun by the Communists? They had a huge military, and a stated aim of global domination. Hell, Krushchev exposed his stinky foot at the UN, so he could pound the point home.

I get the feeling that writer gets the feeling that Solidarity was some sort of "happening".

"It was like totally awesome, dude, dudes sparking up in the park, man, then like rallying saying NO WAY to the MAN, man. We just went with the flow, you know? Then, like, the Soviets like TOTALLY PULLED OUT. We were like, yeah, man. Totally cool. Then, I was like, dude, let's use some hermeneutical postmodern strategies to qualify the search for truth as an artifact of outmoded linguistically encoded power structures.

Righteous."

Maximus:

FGB - 300

Some of you people make me happy about entropy.

This article is apropo:

http://www.powells.com/review/2006_10_19

Barry...nice!

I always amazed at the left's attempt to re-write history...

Racist Southern Democrats.
Alger Hiss.
Fall of the USSR.
Who put us in Vietnam and pulled us out before we could get it finished.
etc.

Not that Republicans get it right all the time, but the left would have us believe their errors never happened at all.

Like I said before Conservatives throw out the Repulican trash...Liberals celebrate theirs.

Sen. Bird
Rep. Studds
Rep. Frank
President Carter
Alger Hiss
Sen. Kennedy

Just to name a few...

Why should it be any different when they realize that history is not going to automatically revise itself for them about the fall of the USSR, that they try to get some credit? For the entire Readan Admin. they fought him tooth and nail over his tactics with the USSR. NOW they want in on the credit as if "PEACEFUL Resistance" got their movement anywhere but the gulag.

Don't be afraid to bring the pain!

Missed WOD yesterday so I didn't earn a true rest day.
CFWU-Lite 3 rds SS/15 x OHS/15 x SU/15 x BExt/Pull Ups at 3,4,5

Cleans 105/95/85 x 7
Bar dips 10
3 mile Run
just staying loose for the next three day run of WODs

Executed the Elizabeth WoD today: @ ~17:00 --some sets broken, cleans done from 65 through 125lbs, ring dips.
-Additional 3 sets wall-based HSPUs.
-Additional 50 each: inclined military sit-ups and corresponding back extensions.

Ross #64: One of the great joys of rest day posts is the vibrancy and intelligence of the debate; your post was clearly at the head of the class. As for Tom Ricks, "Fiasco" it's on my list. I must admit a growing unease at what's going on in Iraq. I am particularly dismayed at news stories which report the death of US soliders due to "enemy action in Anbar Province." Why are no further details given? Were any insurgents killed or captured or are the bad guys picking off our guys at will? And can someone please explain to my why the most sophisticated, technologically advanced military force on earth cannot protect its men from road side bombs? We urgently need some clear goal line objective that will enable us to withdraw our men or we must resolve to surpress the insurgency brutally, ruthlessly and without remorse (rase to the ground the vicinity where any roadside bomb is located) by the insertion of a massive overwhelming force of arms. We're either in or out.

This is a fantastic piece worth reading:
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/10/why_not_let_the.html#more

If I may,

I really love this sight and all it has to offer both in the way of fitness and introspection. I'm sick and tired of the constant bickering between the right and left. What I'm getting at is we are losing sight of what's important, Winning the battles we are fighting. But how can we acheive that when our troops are being shot at from the front and back. How can we expect to gain forward progress if the boots on the ground think twice because they are worried about being tossed in the brig. Since when do we care more about the well being of captured terrorists, when our own fighting men are being tried as common crooks? Outrage is expressed everytime an allegation of torture or mistreatment of detainees is reported, or Israel's excessive retaliation toward Lebanon. Where's the outrage when an innocent person is beheaded on film? Or when those two army soldiers were kidnapped and found mutilated? Those who think Israel or the U.S. is in the wrong, that's fine. That's our God given right bestowed upon us by our constitution. But I dare you to watch the methodic slaughter of a bound innocent person at the hands of masked gunmen. Then you will see the true face our enemies, absolute evil,malice, and cowardice covered in a ski mask.

#84

you're right on the money. But as advanced as we are we are acting politically childish. And technology wont win this war, it's our men on the ground(of which I was one)who will win. But they need to have the handcuffs removed so they can do it.

Hey-

Run 2 miles x2 [out and back]

18:23 [headwind]
17:52 [tailwind]

-MillerTime

#87 Nate, Thanks for your service to our country.

#43 RobertP,

While it is true that the Bush Administrations has begun a drawdown of the military following the end of the Cold War, the Clinton Administration took those cuts farther than Bush the Elder ever intended them to go.

Chairman Powell had presented the "Base Force" plan for downsizing the military just before the 92 Campaign. Representative Aspin aggressively opposed Base Force while promoting his "Bottom Up Review" plan for revising force structure. The BUR cuts ended up far exceeding the reductions proposed in Base Force. Of course, Congressman Aspin later became Secretary Of Defense Aspin and implemented his BUR plan, which has led us to this manpower shortage we are experiencing today.

The one area I agree with you about is Secretary Rumsfeld's curious insistence that we do not need more troops. I believe this assertion is being made for political rather than military reasons. Even if we wanted to bring the army back up to Gulf War levels (780,000 soldiers), we couldn't do it with current recruiting. Our society is sufficiently selfish that we would never be able to double our recruiting success without seriously lowering the standards to allow currently unqualified recruits into the service. Since (due to the lack of genuine patriotism in America today) we cannot increase the size of the volunteer army, the only other recourse is a draft, which is politically unfeasible.

If you're serious about studying this topic, I recommend reading "While America Sleeps: Self-Delusion, Military Weakness, And The Threat To Peace Today" written by Donald Kagan. Published in 2000, it has proven eerily correct in it's predictions for the 21st Century.

Kate as always is right on the money.

From my perspective here in B-Dad,,if the Israelis pre-empt, the prevailing winds will carry the fallout away. (a good thing) if the Iraninans strike first some of the radioactive crap is sure to land here. (just when I'm getting short)
Israel would be more than justified in striking first. Ahamadinejad got it right when he said that Israel could be anihilated while the muslim world could absorb a strike with heavy casulties. It's a cruel calculus but their very survival is on the line. Wonder what they're waiting for? K-

Thanks Kate from a former Marine, you also are a true American Hero. Keep charging, and keep crossfitting...

"The final outcome that Ahmedinejad hopes for is also explicitly described in the speech:

The issue of Palestine is not over at all. It will be over the day a Palestinian government, which belongs to the Palestinian people, comes to power; the day that all refugees return to their homes; a democratic government elected by the people comes to power. Of course those who have come from far away to plunder this land have no right to choose for this nation.

From the sounds of this, Ahmedinejad would deny Jews "who come from far away" the right to vote in his Palestine, but there is, to say the least, no indication that genocide is being advocated. It is possible that Ahmedinejad advocates denying the vote even to Jews who were born in Israel. But based on his words "come from far away", he cannot fairly be accused of even that.

It is a common rhetorical tactic on the part of defenders of zionism to conflate the implementation of a democratic government that treats Jews and non-Jews equally - and without guarantees of a what Zionists consider a sufficient Jewish majority - with genocide.

In the case of the times here, it is clear that this conflation is deliberately designed to mislead and emotionally manipulate readers. In other cases, it may just be unwittingly naive and linked to a subtle bigotry that elevates the rights and concerns of Jews above the rights and concerns of non-Jews, even of greater numbers of non-Jews.

Rather than an indictment of Iran, this entire episode is a shameful display of deliberate deception and manipulation employed by sympathizers with Zionism in mainstream news sources such as the New York Times."

Coach K
Age = 27
BW = 180

WOD = "Elizabeth" + 30# weight vest

Time = 13:42

I did yesterdays workout today - took my rest day yesterday.

This community is truly uplifting. I am glad that I am a part of it and thank you all for your support as I support others.

Kate

First of all to all of you shouting your support for Israel an excerpt from the book "The Case Against Israel" by Michael Neumann (U.S. born son of Jewish refugees):

" The Jews who came to Palestine as individuals and in small groups had various motives. But the overall direction of the Zionist movement, the ultimate goal to which all these individuals and groups would be directed and the one which it would in fact achieve, is something else again. Most accounts of the settlement do not focus on this ultimate purpose, and are therefore misleading. The Zionists and their camp followers did not come simply to settle. They did not come simply to 'find a homeland', certainly not in the sense that Flanders is the homeland of the Flemish, or Lappland of the Lapps. They did not come simply to 'make a life in Palestine'. They did not come simply to find a refuge from persecution. They did not come to 'redeem a people'. All this could have been done elsewhere, as was pointed out at the time, and much of it was being done elsewhere by individual Jewish immigrants to America and other countries. The Zionists, and therefore all who settled under their auspices, came to found a sovereign Jewish state.

In the territory which came under Israeli occupation after Partition there were approximately 950,000 Palestinian Arabs. They inhabited nearly 500 villages and all the major cities, which included Tiberias, Safed, Nazareth, Shafa Amr, Acre, Haifa, Jaffa, Lydda, Ramle, Jerusalem, Majdal (Ashqelon), Isdud (Ashdod) and Beersheba.

After less than six months only 138,000 people remained. (Figures vary from 130,000 to 165,000.)The great majority of Palestinians were killed, forcibly expelled or fled in panic before slaughtering bands of Israeli army units.

Having thus eliminated most of the Palestinian inhabitants from the land of Palestine, the Israeli government undertook the systematic destruction of their homes and possessions. Nearly 400 villages and towns were razed to the ground during 1948 and 1949."[63]

"Moshe Dayan, former Chief of Staff and Minister of Defense, was uninhibited in his summary of the nature of Zionist colonization before students at the Israel Institute of Technology (The Techniyon):

We came here to a country that was populated by Arabs, and we are building here a Hebrew, Jewish state. Instead of Arab villages, Jewish villages were established. You do not even know the names of these villages and I do not blame you, because these geography books no longer exist. Not only the books, but also the villages do not exist.

Nahalal was established in place of Mahalul, Gevat in place of Jibta, Sarid in the place of Hanifas and Kafr Yehoushu’a in the place of Tel Shamam. There is not a single settlement that was not established in the place of a former Arab village." [64]

63. A detailed analysis of this process can be found in Janet Abu Lughod’s The Demographic Transformation of Palestine, in Ibrahim Abu Lughod, ed., The Transformation of Palestine (Evanston, Ill.: Northwestern University Press, 1971), pp.139-64.

64. Moshe Dayan, March 19,1969, Ha’aretz, April 4, 1969

For those of you harping on Israel's Security:

"The publication of the Personal Diary of Moshe Sharett (Yoman ishi, Maariv, Tel Aviv, 1979) demolished the myth of security as the motor force of Israeli policy. Moshe Sharett was a former Prime Minister of Israel (1954-55), director of the Jewish Agency’s Political Department and Foreign Minister (1948-56).

Sharett’s diary reveals in explicit language that the Israeli political and military leadership never believed in any Arab danger to Israel.

They sought to maneuver and force the Arab states into military confrontations which the Zionist leadership were certain of winning so Israel could carry out the destabilization of Arab regimes and the planned occupation of additional territory.

Sharett described the governing motive of Israeli military provocation:

To bring about the liquidation of all ... Palestinian claims to Palestine through the dispersion of the Palestinian refugees to distant corners of the world. [98]

The Sharett diaries document a longstanding program of Israel’s leaders from both Labor and Likud: to "dismember the Arab world, defeat the Arab national movement and create puppet regimes under regional Israeli power." [99] Sharett cites cabinet meetings, position papers and policy memoranda which prepared wars "to modify the balance of power in the region radically, transforming Israel into the major power in the Middle East." [100] Sharett reveals that far from Israel "reacting" to Nasser’s nationalization of the Suez Canal for its war of October 1956, the Israeli leadership had prepared this war and had it on their agenda from autumn 1953, one year before Nasser came to power. Sharett recounts how the Israeli cabinet had agreed that international conditions for this war would mature within three years. The explicit intent was "the absorption of the Gaza territory and of the Sinai". A timetable for conquest was decided at the highest military and political level. The occupation of Gaza and the West Bank was prepared in the early 1950s. In 1954, David Ben Gurion and Moshe Dayan developed a detailed plan to instigate internal Lebanese conflict in order to fragment Lebanon. This was sixteen years before an organized Palestinian political presence occurred there in the aftermath of the expulsions from Jordan in 1970, when King Hussein slaughtered Palestinians in what came to be known as "Black September". Sharett described "the use of terror and aggression to provoke" in order to facilitate conquest:

I have been meditating on the long chain of false incidents and hostilities we have invented and on the many clashes we have provoked which cost so much blood, and on the violations of law by our men all of which have brought grave disaster and determined the whole course of events. [101]

>
Sharett recounts how on October 11, 1953, Israeli President Ben Zvi "raised as usual some inspired questions such as [our] chance to occupy the Sinai and how wonderful it would be if the Egyptians started an offensive so we could follow with an invasion of the desert." [102]

On October 26, 1953, Sharett writes:

1) The Army considers the present border with Jordan as absolutely unacceptable. 2) The Army is planning war in order to occupy the rest of Eretz Israel. [103]

By January 31, 1954, Dayan outlined war plans, disclosed by Sharett :

We should advance militarily into Syria and realize a series of faits accomplis. The interesting conclusion from all this regards the direction in which the Chief of Staff is thinking." [104]

" The plans exposed by Moshe Sharett did not originate with David Ben Gurion or Moshe Dayan. In 1904, Theodor Herzl described the territory over which the Zionist movement laid claim as inclusive of all the land "from the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates". [111] The territory embraced all of Lebanon and Jordan, two thirds of Syria, one-half of Iraq, a strip of Turkey, one-half of Kuwait, one third of Saudi Arabia, the Sinai and Egypt, including Port Said, Alexandria and Cairo.

In his testimony before the United Nations Special Committee of Enquiry which was preparing the Partition of Palestine (July 9, 1947), Rabbi Fischmann, the official representative of the Jewish agency for Palestine, reiterated Herzl’s claims:

The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates. It includes parts of Syria and Lebanon." [l12]

111. Herzl, Diaries. Vol.II, 1904, p.711.

Do most people really know how much assistance is sent to Israel daily?

The Israeli government and military receive $15,139,178* from the U.S. every day.

“Generous as it is, what Israel actually got in U.S. aid is considerably less than what it has cost U.S. taxpayers to provide it. The principal difference is that so long as the U.S. runs an annual budget deficit, every dollar of aid the U.S. gives Israel has to be raised through U.S. government borrowing.”

- Richard Curtiss

The Cost of Israel to US Taxpayers

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/cost_of_israel.html

3 Rounds:
100 M Hill Sprint
15 Thrusters X 115#
15 Dball burpee/clean/slam combo

18:00

10 pull ups on the minute for 20 minutes

I have not read this book so I copied this review from Amazon.

Reviewer: safta lenni - See all my reviews
Astonishing to see Amazon promoting this anti-Israel, anti-semitic book, from an organisation that prides itself on just those prejudices. This book skews history, totally ignoring the 8, yes 8 times when the Arabs could have got themselves another Palestinian state, ignoring the fact that Jordan already occupies 2/3rds of the original area of Mandate Palestine allocated for a Jewish Homeland by the League of Nations in 1920.

Let's think hypothetical: What do you think would happen if no more suicide bombers ventured into Israel? Peace?

Question for y'all:

I'm a NOOB, and today I did "elizabeth" from yesterday. I went to my big box chain stairmaster gym (if there was somewhere else, I would go there instead) and asked the idiot employee to show me how to do a clean.

In the "clean" video here on xfit, the girl goes from a deadlift, and then quickly "snaps" the bar up onto her shoulders.

Idiot employee (our "olympic weightlifting" guy, the manager said) told me to start with the bar hanging at my waist, do the quick "snap" (sorry, I don't know what it's really called... NOOB) and then lift it over my head.

Since the only olympic lift I've done so far is the deadlift, I felt it was safer to start at the waist, and do the "snap" up to the shoulders.

(I managed to do 5-5-5-5-1-5-5-4-1-3-3-2-1 @95#... working on form and keeping it safe.)

NOW, my questions: Is a "clean" a clean the world around, or if I say "clean" does it mean different things to different people? Was my idiot employee a true idiot or was he just telling me the central florida version of a "clean?"

Q2: How can I learn olympic weightlifting so I can Xfit safely? No xfit in Orlando area.

Q3: how come nobody in my big box stairmaster gym has ever heard of crossfit?

Finally, I tell all of my friends at seminary about Crossfit, so I should probably talk to y'all about Jesus some time.

Ha! Just kidding. Not the place.

Thank you Coach, and everyone else.

JK

Another book review "O Jerusalem" whcih attempts to explain the state of Israel

"O Jerusalem" is a classic. By focusing on one narrow yet vitally important aspect of the Arab-Jewish conflict surrounding the birth of Israel between WWII and 1948, the authors bring to life all the characters, good bad and neutral who played a role in the saga of Jerusalem. As readers of the book will discover, prior to 1948, Jerusalem was a city with a mixed Jewish-Arab population. The Arabs and Jews lived in relative harmony, sometimes in mixed neighborhoods. Under British rule, all religious groups had access to their own holy sights. The authors demonstrate how villaims like Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, a rabid anti-semite who spent WWII hiding from the British in Berlin, brought ruin to the Arabs of Jerusalem. Indeed, the Arabs come across as the ultimate victims, which they were. Their victimizers were not the Jews, however, but their fellow Arabs. Ultimately, war comes in 1948 and the Jews are victorious in establishing the state of Israel. Many Arab residents of Jerusalem are forced from their homes either by the Israeli Defense Force, fellow Arabs or their own fears. Most wind up in the part of the city that has come to be known as "East Jerusalem". The old city, including the Jewish Quarter and the Western Wall is captured by Jordan and ALL Jews are expelled. The book describes in great detail, the tragic consequences of this conflict which was not wanted by the Jews, not wanted by their Arab neighbors but spurred on by interlopers like the Mufti, the British and many bad players fromt he Arab world like King Abdullah. It is a fair analysis. It does not make the Jews out to be saints nor does it portray all the Arabs as blood thirsty monsters. It lays blame where it belongs. Those pre-disposed to a revisionist view of Israel's birth will not appreciate this book because its fair analysis does not meet with revisionist ideology. But for anyone who wants to learn the truth about this conflict, this book is a must read.

Thanks to the quack butcher who ruined my shoulder...no cleans, no deads, and ring dips kill. So...

Tabata t-mill intervals @7:15 pace
3min rest
400m @8:34
5 min rest
400m @8:34

Fitness bats:
20# hammer swings: 10/10
Ring dips: 10 *ouch*
20# parry casts: 5/5/5/5
Ring dips: 10
35# hammer swings: 10/10
Ring dips: 10
35# hammer swings: 10/10
Ring dips: 10

#102

http://www.orlandobarbell.com/index.html

The deadlift, squat and bench press are powerlifts, not Olympic lifts. The Oly lifts are the Snatch and Clean & Jerk. That's it. The Clean, in this case, is a full clean, from the floor, not actually snapping it up, but diving underneath it in a full squat.

The reason you must get you UNDER the bar as opposed to getting the bar over you is simple, yet not so simple.

When this gets heavy, say 200 pounds (I can't do this yet) the bar is only getting as far off the floor as you can explosively deadlift/shrug/extend it up. There a zero probability you will get it any farther than that. So... since it cannot be moved up by your arms you must get under it. This is a non-simple concept. Watch a lot of video.

Here is a 573 pound C&J

http://tinyurl.com/y4akys

I suggest you practice this with a broomstick, large dowel or long piece of PVC pipe.

Is the trainer at your local gym an idiot? Hard to say, but 24 Hour McNautilus is not the best place to learn Olympic Lifting. It is nesseccary to be able to drop the weights from overhead to really learn these moves.

CrossFit is faily underground phenomenon. I expect it to get much more popular, but since it requires real effort, commitment, intelligence, blood, sweat and tears it will probably never be TOO popular.

CrossFit is antithetical to your big box gym, which hopes you will join and not come, but pay them anyway.

Flbshooouhh...today is laundry day and house cleaning day... and rest day. Well deserved. I did not watch the news today, did not think about war today, did not ponder the meaning of life, and did not worry about stupidity today. I loved on my children and enjoyed the innocence their smiley little faces bring. GOD LOVE 'EM.

Oh yeah the link goes to a gym in your area that at least has a powerlifting team: you should find some help and real knowlege there.

I know what is coming next,the "Anti-Semitic" accusations:

Criticizing Israel is Not Anti-Semitism
http://www.counterpunch.org/nader10162004.html

Also check the definition of Semitic:

"Se·mit·ic (s-mtk)
adj.

1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures.

2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.
n."

So by definition,a book that criticizes Arabs or Ethiopians(Amharic)is Anti- Semitic!

Eddie, looking good brother, but you should *never* let them see you sweat ;), Barry, you are doing a good job of making and refuting points with style and humor, please keep it up. Thanks to everyone else for playing, it is great to read different points of view no matter how far outside our intellectual comfort zone they are *coughjoesam*

One more thing: what your trainer showed you is a hang clean and press. What is called for in this case is a full clean aka clean aka squat clean. No press over the head.

These discussions simply bore and distress me. I am a believer in the God of the Bible. It has been overwhelmingly proven to be archaeologically, historically and evidentially factual, true and beneficial to those who will listen.

With that stated, listen to the Word of the Lord, from genesis 12, verse 3, about Israel, "I will bless those that bless you, and curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Now, what part of that don't you understand?

JK #102

Welcome to Crossfit! Not only is this the place for what is simply the best, most comprehensive general fitness program on the planet, but you can ask a question about a basic element and the owner and lead trainer of an elite CF gym will reply with not one, not two, but THREE posts complete with URL references!! Visit the FAQ, look at the videos that Lynne has posted on the exercises pages, and take the advice from Maximus that has so generously been offered here for free. This is an "arms open" community that is genuinely interested in your success.

Lynne, #104...patience, patience young friend. Your shoulder procedure just happened. S/he may yet turn out to be a quack, but it's still early. You were just treated; give it a little more time. The waiting stinks. The inability to DO stinks. But it's still early. Really. We've all been listening and hoping for you. Patience.

Darrell

Maximus - thanks for the info and advice. I appreciate the welcome. The folks at brandxmartialarts.com have been very helpful in helping me to scale the workout to where I am, which is weak and just starting! I'm going to work on the daily xfit workout, but not hit any of the lifts until I can do them safely. Videos shall be downloaded.

I really do hate the big McGym... unfortunately, the Orlando Barbell gym is a good clip from where I roam, but I may see if I can sched. a 1 day workshop or something. Thanks for link.

I'm not interested in becoming an oly lifter, I just want to be able to complete the xfit workout.

If there is anyone in Orlando area, particularly Winter Springs or Oviedo, please drop a line. I could use a workout partner.

Thanks again to all -

JK

PS - Steve, #111: (1) The quote was made to Abram, not Israel. You're not reading, your interpreting. (2) Keep reading, esp. the prophets, and it will be clear that Israel has broken covenant, even from a Jewish perspective. Ezekiel makes this clear. God's promise in Gen. 12 was a covenental promise, not an contraconditional one. From a Christian perspective, you would be obliged to say that just as Israel rejected the prophets, they have also rejected Messiah Jesus, and demonstrated that they are not in covenant with God, but out.

Okay, so maybe it IS the place...

3 Rounds:
100 M Hill Sprint
15 Thrusters X 115#
15 Dball burpee/clean/slam combo

18:13

then....
"cindy"
how many rounds can you do in 20 minutes of
5 pull-ups
10 pushups
15 squats

39 rounds ( 5 pullups 10 pushups)

srry posted wrong wt 85#

Barry,

I'll try to be a bit clearer:

Simply condemning what you refer to as leftist thought is not useful for any purpose, political or philosophical. Even if you explain away thought you don't like by referring to it as some sort of disease, you should be interested in understanding it so as to cure it.

You critique what you refer to as the leftist account of belief. You should understand the foundations of that belief more thoroughly, if only to be able to critique it. For instance, there are those who would respond that your account of belief died with Kant's account of time and space.

If the dangerous aspect of what you're referring to as leftist thought is that it is irrational, the last thing that we need is for both members of the debate to lose their senses.

Joe/Sam:

It must be embarassing for you when Ahmadinejad blows up all your strenuous pretzel logic and double talk with yet another crystal clear threat to annihilate Israel. Maybe you ought to work on calibrating your message with them a little more closely. You'll that much more effective if you stay "on message" and suffer many fewer instances of being proven a mendacious camp-follower if you just shorten your message to "Death to the Jews."

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Politics&loid=8.0.351360085&par=0

Jerusalem, 19 Oct. (AKI) - Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has promised "a decisive step for the liberation of occupied Jerusalem" in a speech Wednesday in Islamshah, a suburb southwest of Iran's capital Tehran. Addressing a gathering at the Persian Gulf Stadium, Ahmadinejad said Israel's existence was "the mother of all problems in the world." "The existence of this regime is an offence against humanity given that world powers imposed a fake state on six billion people only to safeguard their own interests," he also said.

Actually Mike M. is our most experienced trainer.

Harry MacD

From your post "Ahmadinejad said Israel's existence was "the mother of all problems in the world." "The existence of this regime is an offence against humanity given that world powers imposed a fake state on six billion people only to safeguard their own interests," he also said."

He is advocating REGIME CHANGE,how is this different from the U.S. advocating REGIME CHANGE in Iraq ?

Please correct my history if I am wrong here. I seem to remember that a couple thousand years ago, when the jews were kicked off their land, the ruler at the time (can't remember his name), changed the name of the land from Judea to Palestine to completely erase the memory of the Jews.

Wouldn't this fly in the face of the drive-by media that the Palestinians were the first to live on the land. Seems like the Jews were there first.

Hmmmmm...

Bingo 112, thanks, but the quack with the knife hasn't touched my shoulder yet. I'm referring to the quack with the big-a$$ed needle who jammed it in to my joint capsule and shot it full of pretty dye so the tear would show up on the MRI. Shoulder has been well nigh useless ever since.

Joe...

That would be because Saddam was a murdering despot who looked to dominate the Middle-East's oil interests. He also gassed thousands of his own people. He broke several U.N resolutions. He invaded and then occupied a neighboring country in an efort to steal its oil and gain large access to the Mediterrianian Sea.

I am failing to see the connection ...

I read a book on the history of the Arabs by Albert Hourani. What was notably interesting about it, was that it spent 40-50 pages on the background of Islam, then like 2 paragraphs on the 50-100 years, whatever it was, of Islamic military conquest. He omitted the slaughter of the Jews in whatever village it was. He then went on to the political history of the various caliphates, who seemed, in his rendering, to have sprung up sui generis.

I see similar dissimulation (which is what it was), in the following account:

"In the territory which came under Israeli occupation after Partition there were approximately 950,000 Palestinian Arabs. They inhabited nearly 500 villages and all the major cities, which included Tiberias, Safed, Nazareth, Shafa Amr, Acre, Haifa, Jaffa, Lydda, Ramle, Jerusalem, Majdal (Ashqelon), Isdud (Ashdod) and Beersheba.

After less than six months only 138,000 people remained. (Figures vary from 130,000 to 165,000.)The great majority of Palestinians were killed, forcibly expelled or fled in panic before slaughtering bands of Israeli army units."

Isn't something missing? Hint: there was another group of people with guns, as Tracy pointed out. This is the damn Viking analogy again, dressed up with irrelevant details.

You know who kills most Arabs? Arabs. This is documentable. I posted a link a couple rest days ago. It's not even close, and even what Arabs the Israelis kill are usually combatants attacking them. 1948, Arabs invade. 1967, they were massing to invade. 1973, they invade. Throughout all the years in between and since there have been numberless border incursions, the worst of which, in my view was Maalot, where they took over a daycare, and shot dozens of CHILDREN in cold blood at point blank range.

Yes, Israel misses with bombs and missiles, but you know what? When a homicide bomber blows himself up in a Sbarro's pizzeria, that's a hit. That was the target. They were TRYING to kill civilians.

Over and above the history of the conflict, I see on the side of Israelis a nation that is enormously vital, that publishes research, and files patents, and just CREATES generally more than almost any comparable group of people on earth, and I see on the other side what amount to collective sociopathy. An uncreative, hate-based, despotic group of moral monsters, who--regardless of their supposed "victimization" can find NO excuse, NONE, for their behavior. If they really wanted a homeland, they could practice non-violence. If they acted like Martin Luther King--who was a very brave man that I admire--then they could have had their homeland 40 years ago.

The core issue is the "right of return". They demand, in the same breath, the death of Israel, and the right to go back to their ancestral homes. Would you want someone committed to killing you as a house guest?

As far as Herr A., all I will say is that even if you can contort through some Herculean violence to logic and common sense his explicit words to mean something other than a call to push Jews into the sea, you still have to factor in that he is liar. He lies. People do that. They say one thing, but actually mean another. It happens. It does. Adolph Hitler was a kind, compassionate, but fair man. Just read his speeches. He was misunderstood.

Ross,

I have been exposed to the logic of post-modernism. I have two degress in the Humanaties from excellent universities. I could read Sartre. I've suffered through Hegel and Kant and Leibniz. I just think he's an idiot.

The reason I asked you to translate, is you were committing what is perhaps the cardinal thinking error, in my view, of postmodernism. That is the call to "discuss the discussion." Now that I think about it, that is a common call on this site. Let's don't categorize each other. Let's don't be spouting too many opinions. We could be wrong. We could be "essentializing" or "demonizing" the Other.

Postmodernists speak of identity formation through group cohesion created by the fact of alterity, the fact that "we are us, because they are them." In this formulation, violence is generated by the very act of having a fixed identity. This rough paradigm is used to explain our war in Iraq, and general distaste for many aspects of orthodox Islam.

However, this view overlooks two basic ideas. One, if my beliefs have content--for example if I am a committed Christian--then I don't need violence to be who I am. I don't need others. I can build a stable, reasonably contented community of people who believe as I do in living, working, and dying in peace. That has actually happened for most of history, across most of the world. Tribes of people living and dying with only sporadic violence.

Secondly, it overlooks the fact that that belief itself is contradictory. A professor I admired (side note: I once asked another professor about him, and he shrugged and said "he's a conservative Roman Catholic", like that was all he needed to say to confirm he was an idiot) once said "the rejection of the rejection of the Other has begun". At first, I thought, what the hell is he talking about?

Then I thought about it. There was a time where it was acceptable to call minorities darkies and worse. Where there was a generalized idea that we in the West were manifestly superior in every conceivable way. This was erroneous.

However, not fully erroneous. In many respects, our systems of political governance and wealth creation are superior to many other systems. Certainly, not contemptable. Slavery is still practiced to this day in many parts of Africa. THAT is contemptable. Women are treated as chattel in many parts of the world, even where not explicitly enslaved. THAT is contemptable.

Yet, in the postmodern political formulation, all opinions, formulations, and generalized ideas about Others are taboo. I can't talk about Muslims with any form of judgement. Because slavery was once considered "right", all notions of right and wrong have to be jettisoned.

But you can't function without belief. Zen monks train for many years to exist solely in the moment, and many of them fail. Postmodernists in effect are asking the masses of people everywhere to do the same thing.

Pragmatically, what happens, is in that gap of belief, the rejection of rejection is enshrined. If I think poor people are often poor because they are lazy and stupid (I do, although that isn't invariably the case), then I am guilty of "essentializing" them, and ought to apologize. If I think the Palestinians are blood-thirsty monsters who erect shrines to actual events that would be appropriate for most Halloween "Fear Factories", I'm "demonizing" the Other.

Thus, the actual beliefs come to be defined, by--are you ready?--the Other, with the Other being anyone with clear convictions, and expressed opinions. America has opinions, in no small measure due to being less infected with the "we don't know anything" virus than the Europeans. This is why anti-americanism is so prevalent among political leftists. They stand for nothing, except the stand they take against those who stand for something. This is why they so persistently hate Bush, and refuse to even attempt to understand the logic of what he does. And there is logic. That's not to say he does everything perfectly, but he makes decisions and tries to stand by them. I infinitely prefer that to "let's discuss the discussion." Let's have a meeting to plan our next meeting. That role is already being done well by the UN.

I'm dilating on this a bit, because in my view these philosophical issues are the inner machinery of Leftism, as I view it.

In effect, I'm being criticised for viewing a disparate group of individuals, with political agendas that vary, as having commonalities. The method of criticism is not specific, but rather depends on the notion that ALL discussion of that sort is inherently flawed. That very opinion ratifies mine, in my view.

One other thought. Many critiques of America take in effect the form "10 is a number, and so is 20. Therefore, they are basically the same." This is manifestly stupid, but so are most of the criticims of America. We aren't perfect, but neither are we Sudan or Rwanda.

It would be an interesting exercise--which may well have been done by someone--to create a list of potential rights, and assign some sort of point value to them. Right to assembly, right to vote, right to petition for information, right to bear arms, etc. etc. If we weren't the highest number on this list, it would still be a nation we enabled to survive, and we would be close to the top. What would be interesting would be comparing us to, say, Saudi Arabia or Iran. Comparing ISRAEL to Egypt.

JoeSam:

More peace-loving declarations from Ahmadinejadnutjob. You should consult the first rule of holes: When you're in one, stop digging.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/20/world/main2110011.shtml

" Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear.

"This regime, thanks to God, has lost the reason for its existence," Ahmadinejad told a crowd of thousands gathered at a rally in support of the Palestinians in the capital Tehran.

"Efforts to stabilize this fake (Israeli) regime, by the grace of God, have completely failed... You should believe that this regime is disappearing," he said.

Ahmadinejad also called Israeli leaders a "group of terrorists" and threatened any country that supports the Jewish state, as millions of Iranians took to the streets for anti-Israel protests.

"You imposed a group of terrorists ... on the region," Ahmadinejad said, addressing the U.S. and its allies. "It is in your own interest to distance yourself from these criminals... This is an ultimatum. Don't complain tomorrow."

"Nations will take revenge," he told hundreds of thousands of supporters at a pro-Palestinian rally in the capital Tehran.

Ahmadinejad also called the U.N. Security Council "illegitimate," ahead of diplomats' planned circulation of a draft resolution on Iran next week.
...
On Friday, Ahmadinejad called the U.N. Security Council and its decisions "illegitimate" as long as it was dominated by the U.S. and Britain.

"What sort of Security Council is this? The whole world knows that the U.S. and Britain are enemies of the Iranian nation," he said.

The United States and Britain — along with France, Russia and China — have power to veto any Security Council measures.

"The time is over for such logic. Under such circumstances, the Security Council is illegitimate and its decisions are illegitimate," Ahmadinejad said, drawing chants of "Death to America" from the crowd.

Ahmadinejad has said the Nazis' slaughter of 6 million Jews during World War II was a myth, and that Israel should be wiped off the map or moved to Germany or the United States."

BW: 177
Age: 31

Sorry to interrupt, just wanted to post my "rest day" workout so that I can refer to it later.

I know I should have rested, but I didn't (can't this week due to a training class).

CFWUx2 -Dips

5-4-3-2-1 Weighted Pullups

5 x 45
4 x 70
3 x 80
2 x 90 (Took 4 attempts to get 2 good ones)
1 x 115 (Took 2 attempts and still missed my chin by about 3 inches)

The most exciting part, however, was getting 2 solid Muscle-Ups (not consecutive) on the chin-up bar.

3 hours later, played with the M/U's again and knocked out about 6 (not consecutive).

Moving to the rings soon...

Lynne Pitts

What is wrong with your shoulder if you don't mind me asking? I have had shoulder problems in the past. Maybe my experiences can help.

Andy,
For the past year: due to attempting to learn kipping pullups, developed pain on bench press, pushups, OHS, a few other odds and ends. Wasn't getting better, so went for arthrogram and MRI. Turns out to be a rotator cuff tear; I don't see the orthopedic guy til 31 Oct to find out details.

Before arthrogram: Pain level 4/10 on certain movements. After arthrogram: Pain level constant 4/10 regardless of movement, 7/10 on old painful movements, and 5/10 on a whole battery of ROM and exercises that were painfree before the big needle.

Modern medicine? Bleh.

I'm really interested in trying to rehab without surgery...
Thanks,
Lynne

Lynne

About 12 years ago I was on a three day a week weight lifting program where I would do Bench presses, Incline Bench-press and Overhead presses. I stuck to the basics. During this time I developed a dull and then later, sharp pain in both my shoulders. I went to an orthopedic surgeon in my hometown. He said I had a rotator cuff tear. He proceeded to give me cortisone shots in both shoulders and told me never to lift weights again.

After a few visits with him, I decided to get another opinion from a clinic that specialized in sports injuries. One of the doctors at the clinic, also an orthopedic surgeon, looked at my x-rays, had me go through a series of movements and said "You don't have a rotator cuff tear. Your rotator cuff area is just weak which makes the shoulder unstable".

Anyways, he sent me to physical therapy at the same clinic. The therapist were great. For two months, two to three days a week for about 1 1/2 to 2 hours a day, they put me through heck doing a series of shoulder stabilization movements and strengthening my rear deltoid muscles. In the end it worked. I was able to do BP and overhead lifts without discomfort.

Recently, I have been experiencing the same problems again (not as severe). I found the following web site to be quite helpful.

http://familydoctor.org/265.xml?printxml

If you perform these movements 3 to 4 times a week, the shoulder pain may go away. Otherwise, I would look for a doctor that specializes in sports injuries.

Best of Luck

Lynne,

Don't take this as medical advice, but I've had troubles with both shoulders in years past. The first one was fixed with physical therapy much as Andy W #129 describes. In addition to the strengthening exercises, the therapist forced my arm into it's full range of motion in order to break down the impingement. It hurt like hell, but it got things working again. Because of that experience, I was able to work through the problem with my second shoulder all by myself. I stretched even when it hurt and got my wife to massage up in back of my armpit. Eventually it got better.

I haven't had any troubles for the last five years and I credit that to a) no longer sleeping on my shoulders and b) Pavel Tsatsouline's daily Super Joints routine of active stretches.

Good luck.

CCTJOEY wrote "That would be because Saddam was a murdering despot who looked to dominate the Middle-East's oil interests. He also gassed thousands of his own people. He broke several U.N resolutions. He invaded and then occupied a neighboring country in an efort to steal its oil and gain large access to the Mediterrianian Sea."

"Under Saddam, the people of Iraq had water, electricity, jobs, and no one was going around as suicide bombers blowing up public places and killing bystanders daily.

Torture in Iraq is worse now than it was under the regime of Saddam Hussein and "is totally out of hand", according to a United Nations investigator."

"The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," said Manfred Nowak, a UN special investigator on torture, at a press conference in Geneva.

He said government forces, private militia and terrorist groups were all involved."

Yeah Harry,I his Foreign Minister who actually speaks Farsi,doesn't know what he is talking about so we should ignore the fact that

"The Iranian Foreign Minister Manuchehr Mottaki has [...] repudiated that his state would want the Jewish state Israel 'wiped off the map'. [...] Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. 'Nobody can erase a country from the map.' Ahmadinejad was not thinking of the state of Israel but of their regime [...]. 'We do not accredit this regime to be legitimate.' [...] Mottaki also accepted that the Holocaust really took place in a way that six million Jews were murdered during the era of National Socialism."

We (who have to rely on translations) should take it on faith that no spin has been given to Ahmadinejad's words by the "fair and balanced" U.S. media who of course have no interest whatsoever in demonizing the leader of Iran! LOL!

"This is one chapter of the war against Iran that has already begun with the words of Georg Meggle, professor of philosophy at the university of Leipzig - namely with the probably most important phase, the phase of propaganda."

" Marginally we want to mention that it was the former US Vice-Minister of Defence and current President of the World Bank, Paul D. Wolfowitz, who in Sept. 2001 talked about ending states in public and without any kind of awe. And it was the father of George W. Bush who started the discussion about a nuclear war being "winnable" if only the survival of an elite could be assured."

Inregards to the nuclear issue

"Virtually none of the Western states recognize that uranium enrichment is absolutely legal. There is no restriction by contract or by the law of nations. Quite the contrary: Actually the Western countries would have the duty to assist Iran with these activities, according to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. As long as a state renounces the bomb it is eligible for technical support by the nuclear powers." (Jörg Pfuhl, ARD radio studio Istanbul 2006-01-11) But - all this does not count if the Head of a state is stigmatized as Hitler."

One more thing,a very interesting point was made by 27 year CIA analyst Ray McGovern in an interview:

"back in 1976 - with Gerald Ford president, Dick Cheney his chief of staff, Donald Rumsfeld secretary of defense, and Henry Kissinger national security adviser - the Ford administration bought the Shah's argument that Iran needed a nuclear program to meet its future energy requirements.

They persuaded the hesitant president to offer Iran a deal that would have meant at least $6.4 billion for US corporations like Westinghouse and General Electric, had not the Shah been unceremoniously ousted three years later. The offer included a reprocessing facility for a complete nuclear fuels cycle - essentially the same capability that the US, Israel, and other countries now insist Iran cannot be allowed to acquire. Cheney must have forgotten all this, when he noted early last year that the Iranians are "already sitting on an awful lot of oil and gas. Nobody can figure why they need nuclear as well to generate energy."

Joe..

Try citing your sources.

Interesting... from Wikpedia... "On June 1, 2006, McGovern said, on the Alex Jones radio show, that staged terror attacks across Europe and the U.S. are "probable" in order to justify the invasion of Iran"

You posted:

"Under Saddam, the people of Iraq had water, electricity, jobs, and no one was going around as suicide bombers blowing up public places and killing bystanders daily.
Torture in Iraq is worse now than it was under the regime of Saddam Hussein and "is totally out of hand", according to a United Nations investigator."

"The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," said Manfred Nowak, a UN special investigator on torture, at a press conference in Geneva.

He said government forces, private militia and terrorist groups were all involved."

Please clarify...Should Saddam have been left in power? Was he the rightful leader of Iraq?

Iran...under the Shah...we had an a "friendly" government. Now there is a beligerent one in Iran. One who wants to re-expand the Persian Empire. So no, they should not have enriched uranium. I don't think Cheney or anyone else forgot this...situation changed.

Joe/Sam:

Bravo! It takes a considerable effort to sustain this kind of sophistry. You are truly one of the better apologists for evil that we've had here at CrossFit in quite some time.

Even highly skilled apologists take the easy way out with Iran by, for example, explaining away Ahmadinejad's words as populist crowd pleasers that he doesn't really mean. You, however, have taken on the much harder challenge--in the face of copious public evidence to the contrary--of arguing that Ahmadinejad didn't actually say what he said. Wow...

I look forward to your spirited defence of the Kim Family Regime of North Korea.

Group Moffett

5 Rounds for time of:

Run 400 meters
30 box jumps
30 wall balls

Total time 44:02:97

First CCTJOEY writes "Try citing your sources."

OK here are some sources :

1.)Torture in Iraq 'worse than under Saddam'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1878100,00.html

2.)Why Bush's Iraq is Worse Than Saddam's

http://www.counterpunch.org/blum06222006.html

3.)Report: Iraq War Inspiring Terrorists
Declassified Intel Report Calls Iraq War A 'Cause Celebre' For Islamic Extremists

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/26/terror/main2039339.shtml

Brian
Mulvaney writes "You are truly one of the better apologists for evil that we've had here at CrossFit in quite some time."

Apologist for evil? Please tell me how Ahmadinejad is evil and how the information I have provided about the Times mistranslation of his speech makes me "an apologist for evil."

CCTJOEY states "Iran...under the Shah...we had an a "friendly" government. Now there is a beligerent one in Iran. One who wants to re-expand the Persian Empire. So no, they should not have enriched uranium. I don't think Cheney or anyone else forgot this...situation changed."

"Iran signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty and insists (correctly) that the treaty assures signatories the right to pursue nuclear programs for peaceful use. And when Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice claims, as she did last month, "There is simply no peaceful rationale for the Iranian regime to resume uranium enrichment," she is being, well, disingenuous again.

If Dr. Rice has done her homework, she is aware that in 1975 President Gerald Ford's chief of staff Dick Cheney and his defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld bought Iran's argument that it needed a nuclear program to meet future energy requirements. This is what Iranian officials are saying today, and they are supported by energy experts who point out that oil extraction in Iran is already at or near peak and that the country will need alternatives to oil in coming decades.

It is altogether reasonable to expect that Iran's leaders want to have a nuclear weapons capability as well, and that they plan to use their nuclear program to acquire one. From their perspective, they would be fools not to. Iran is one of three countries earning the "axis-of-evil" sobriquet from President Bush and it has watched what happened to Iraq, which had no nuclear weapons, as well as what did not happen to North Korea, which does have them. And Iran's rival Israel, which has not signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty but somehow escapes widespread opprobrium, has a formidable nuclear arsenal cum delivery systems.

Israeli threats to destroy Iranian nuclear facilities simply provide additional incentive to Tehran to bury and harden them against the kind of Israeli air attack that destroyed the Iraqi nuclear facility at Osirak in 1981. Although the US (together with every other UN Security Council member) condemned that attack, Dick Cheney and other senior officials do not disguise their view that it was just what the doctor ordered at the time ... and that the same prescription might take care of Iran."

CCTJOEY also asks "Please clarify...Should Saddam have been left in power? Was he the rightful leader of Iraq?"

Let's see what some Iraqis think

"National Public Radio foreign correspondent Loren Jenkins, serving in NPR's Baghdad bureau, met earlier this month with a senior Shiite cleric, a man who was described in the NPR report as "a moderate" and as a person trying to lead his Shiite followers into practicing peace and reconciliation. He had been jailed by Saddam Hussein and forced into exile. Jenkins asked him: "What would you think if you had to go back to Saddam Hussein?" The cleric replied that he'd "rather see Iraq under Saddam Hussein than the way it is now."

Also:

"a list of the many kinds of misfortune which have fallen upon the heads of the Iraqi people as a result of the American liberation of their homeland:

1.)Loss of a functioning educational system. A 2005 UN study revealed that 84% of the higher education establishments have been "destroyed, damaged and robbed".

2.)Loss of a functioning health care system. And loss of the public's health. Deadly infections including typhoid and tuberculosis are rampaging through the country. Iraq's network of hospitals and health centers, once admired throughout the Middle East, has been severely damaged by the war and looting.

The UN's World Food Program reported that 400,000 Iraqi children were suffering from "dangerous deficiencies of protein". Deaths from malnutrition and preventable diseases, particularly amongst children, already a problem because of the 12 years of US-imposed sanctions, have increased as poverty and disorder have made access to a proper diet and medicines ever more difficult.

3.)A nearly lawless society: Iraq's legal system, outside of the political sphere, was once one of the most impressive and secular in the Middle East; it is now a shambles; religious law more and more prevails.

Women's rights previously enjoyed are now in great and growing danger under harsh Islamic law, to one extent or another in various areas. There is today a Shiite religious ruling class in Iraq, which tolerates physical attacks on women for showing a bare arm or for picnicking with a male friend.

Men can be harassed for wearing shorts in public, as can children playing outside in shorts.

Sex trafficking, virtually nonexistent previously, has become a serious issue.

"Now I am isolated," said a middle-class Sunni Arab, who decided to leave. "I have no government. I have no protection from the government. Anyone can come to my house, take me, kill me and throw me in the trash."[1]

4.)Unemployment is estimated to be around fifty percent.

Massive layoffs of hundreds of thousands of Baathist government workers and soldiers by the American occupation authority set the process in motion early on. Later, many, desperate for work, took positions tainted by a connection to the occupation, placing themselves in grave danger of being kidnapped or murdered.

The cost of living has skyrocketed. Income levels have plummeted.

Joe... nevermind man.

It is not worth it...all you do is cut and past from other's work and not cite it.

No stats that actually support you...just misleading and misguided re-posts by obviously biased authors.

You live in a world 180 out.

Others put time and thought to post.

I should expect as much. This is all you have done every rest day for a while now.

Nice reply Joey, not one refutation of what I posted! You rail against cutting and pasting! LOL!

Let's try this CCTJOEY,

I will provide some links to show that your support of Israel,while denouncing Iran as "Evil" is completely ridiculous. Your assertion that Saddam was evil while you support Israel's assasinations of whomever it deems a terrorist is ridiculous,your ignorance of the fact that Israel has WMDs while harping on Saddam being "Evil" is ridiculous. I don't really blame you for giving up with the lame excuse of " all you do is cut and past from other's work and not cite it":

1.)Documentary on WMDs in Israel from the BBC:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2395002075547394719&q=Israel&hl=en

2.)This item is for those who love to quote Ahmadinejad,I would like to quote some Israelis and see if you who decide who is good and who is evil can tell me on what side these people fall

"A long interview was published with Major Etienne Saqr [code name, Abu Arz]. Major Saqr was the leader of the several-thousand-strong rightwing militia, "The Guardians of the Cedars".

Major Saqr’s own remarks foreshadowed what would later shock the world at the Palestinian camps of Sabra and Shatila:

It is the Palestinians we have to deal with. Ten years ago there were 84,000; now there are between 600,000 and 700,000. In six years there will be two million. We can’t let it come to that.

When asked by the Jerusalem Post: "What is your solution?" Major Saqr replied: "Very simple. We shall drive them to the borders of ’brotherly’ Syria ... Anyone who looks back, stops or returns will be shot on the spot. We have the moral right, reinforced by well-organized public relations plans and political preparations."

Are you – asked the Jerusalem Post – able to implement this threat? (He does not blink an eyelid.) “Of course we can. And we shall.”

Major Saqr had played a major role in the 1976 massacre of Palestinians in Tal al Zaatar refugee camp.

After the massacres of Sabra and Shatila, Major Saqr returned to Jerusalem to hold a press conference in which he took responsibility for carrying out the massacre with the Israelis: "No one has the right to criticize us; we carried out our duty, our sacred responsibility." [123]

The Israeli Army command had also enlisted leading Lebanese officers. One of them revealed:

During Thursday, General Drori, took me to the airport where Israelis were assembling the militia. “If your men won’t do it, I know others who will.” [125]

He referred to Saqr. "... The Guardians of the Cedars, whom Gemayel incorporated into the Lebanese Forces in 1980, held, as an article of faith, that Palestinian infants must be killed since they eventually grew up to be terrorists." [126]

Major Saqr had worked closely with the notorious intelligence chief for Bashir Gemayel’s militia, Elie Hobeika. Hobeika was known as the C.I.A.’s man in Beirut.

Jonathan Randal of the Washington Post cited Hobeika’s declarations in Beirut, ascribing these to "one of the killers"; they echoed those of Major Saqr in Jerusalem:

Shoot them against the pink and blue walls; slaughter them in the half-light of the evening. The only way you will find out how many Palestinians we killed is if they ever build a subway under Beirut ... A good massacre or two will drive the Palestinians out of Beirut and Lebanon once and for all." [124]

123. Jerusalem Post, October 1983

124. Jonathan Randal. Going All The Way (New York: Viking, 1983), p.17

125. Ibid.

126. Ibid.

3.) For those of you waiting to say,'well that guy was probably just a bad apple' we have:

"the London Sunday Times conducted a five-month investigation. Corroboration was obtained for the evidence adduced.

The Sunday Times study presented the cases of forty-four Palestinians who were tortured

The investigation resulted in concrete conclusions: Israeli interrogators routinely ill-treat and torture Arab prisoners. Prisoners are hooded or blindfolded and are hung by their wrists for long periods. Most are struck in the genitals or in other ways sexually abused. Many are sexually assaulted. Others are administered electric shock.

Prisoners are placed in specially constructed “cupboards” two feet square and five feet high with concrete spikes set in the floor. And maltreatment, including “prolonged beatings,” is universal in Israeli prisons and detention centers. Torture is so widespread and systematic, concludes the Sunday Times, that it cannot be dismissed as the work of “rogue cops” exceeding orders. It is sanctioned as deliberate policy and all Israeli security and intelligence services are involved:

Shin Bet, equivalent to the F.B.I. and Secret Service in the United States, reports directly to the office of the Prime Minister

Military Intelligence reports to the Minister of Defense

Border Police administer all checkpoints. There are checkpoints throughout the territories occupied since 1967, as there are at the borders

Latam is part of the Department of Special Missions

A para-military squad is assigned to police units.

The specialty of the military center at Sarafand is to blindfold prisoners for long periods, assault them with dogs and hang them by their wrists. The specialty at Ramallah is “anal assault.” Electric shock torture is used almost universally. [136]

Oh,I know,the guys deserved it because they were all terrorists right?

"Nader Afouri was a strong, vital man, the weight-lifting champion of Jordan. When he was released in 1980 after his fifth imprisonment, he could neither see, hear, speak, walk nor control his bodily functions. Between 1967 and 1980, Nader Afouri was held ten and a half years as an administrative detainee. Despite the brutal treatment and torture inflicted upon Nader during five imprisonments, the Israeli authorities could neither extract a confession nor produce any evidence with which to bring Nader Afouri to trial." [142]

Ghassan Harb, a 37-year-old Palestinian intellectual and journalist for Al Fajr, a prominent Arabic daily, was arrested in 1973. He was taken by Israeli soldiers and two plain-clothes agents from his home to Ramallah prison where he was held fifty days. During this time he was neither interrogated nor accused. He was denied any contact with his family or a lawyer. [141]

On the fiftieth day, Ghassan Harb was taken with a sack over his head to an undisclosed place. Here he was subjected to sustained beating: “Fifteen minutes, twenty minutes beating with his hand across my face.”

Stripped naked and a bag placed over his head, he was forced into a confined space. He began to suffocate. He managed by moving his head against the “wall” to remove the bag and found himself in a cupboard-like compartment some 2 feet square and 5 feet high [60 cm. and 150 cm. respectively].

Ghassan Harb was released two-and-a-half years later, never having been charged with a crime or brought to trial."

Finally we have

"Azmi Shuaiby, a dentist, was an active member of the El Bireh City Council in the West Bank and an elected representative to the National Guidance Committee. Since 1973, Dr. Shuaiby has been arrested, brutally tortured and imprisoned seven times. Between 1980 and 1986 he was forbidden to leave the limits of El Bireh and was confined to his house after 6 p.m. In 1986, he was again imprisoned and then deported from the West Bank. [143]

He has never been accused of armed actions or of promoting violence. But Dr. Shuaiby refuses Israeli demands that he collaborate. He has written articles against the occupation and settlements and in favor of an independent Palestinian state."

135. London Sunday Times, June 19, 1977.

136. Ibid., p.18.

137. Ibid. (also the citation for the above case-studies).

138. Ibid. For Rasmiya Odeh’s personal account, see also Soraya Antonius, “Prisoners for Palestine: A List of Women Political Prisoners”, Journal of Palestine Studies.

139. Lea Tsemel, “Political Prisoners In Israel – An Overview”, Jerusalem, November 16, 1982. Lea Tsemel and Walid Fahoum, “Nafha is a Political Prison”, May 13, 1980, and a series of reports (May 1982–February 1983). Felicia Langer, With My Own Eyes, (London: Ithaca Press, 1975). Felicia Langer, These Are My Brothers, (London: Ithaca Press, 1979). Jamil Ala’ al-Din and Melli Lerman, Prisoners and Prisons in Israel, (London: Ithaca Press, 1978). Walid Fahoum, two books of case histories, available in Arabic. Raja Shehadeh, Occupier’s Law: Israel and the West Bank, (Washington, D.C.: Institute for Palestine Studies, 1985). National Lawyers Guild 1977 Middle East Delegation, Treatment of Palestinians in Israeli-Occupied West Bank and Gaza, (New York: 1978). Amnesty International, “Report”, October 21, 1986. Ralph Schoenman and Mya Shone, Prisoners of Israel: The Treatment of Palestinian Prisoners in Three Jurisdictions, (Princeton, N.J.: Veritas Press, 1984) (Prepared in an abbreviated form for the United Nations International Conference on the Question of Palestine).

140. National Lawyers Guild, p.103.

141. Case Study: Ghassan Harb, Ramallah. London Sunday Times, p.19.

142. Case Study: Nader Afouri, Nablus. Schoenman and Shone, pp.22-26.

143. Case Study: Dr. Azmi Shuaiby, El Bireh. Schoenman and Shone, pp.30-32.

But hey,I'm sure you guys already were aware of all that.

Again... nice try JOE

*********THIS ONE IS A DOOZY!********

Since you do not cite WHO or WHERE you get your garbage I will do it for you:

Body of work: "The Hidden History of Zionism"

Athuor: Ralph Schoenman..

Admitted Marxist, Radical Activist, Conspiracy Theorist, Che Supporter, Hate America First Kinda-Guy

Currently heads The Organizer, a small Marxist group based in San Francisco that publishes a newsletter under the same name. His recent and current causes include the war in Bosnia, U.S. aggression against Osama Bin Laden, black rights, and anti-Zionism, in support of which he travels widely and speaks on many college campuses. He also regularly appears on radio.

Here are some of his current beliefs...
-America is run by a “vicious oligarchy” that rules it “through a network of clandestine agencies at the service of banking and corporate capital.” (Article Resist U.S. Aggression! Who Are the Real Terrorists? In The Organizer.)

-America is still in a protracted class war.

-Zionism is racism and Israeli brutality.

-Zionists collaborated with the Nazis to create the Holocaust.

-Israel is an apartheid state where Palestinians are the true Jews.

-The Palestinians were given a police force solely for the purposes of suppressing its own population

His biography on Wikipedia..
Ralph Schoenman is a political activist and radio host. Schoenman hosts a weekly radio program with Mya Shone, Taking Aim on the Pacifica Radio station WBAI 99.5 FM.

Schoenman was an associate of the philosopher Bertrand Russell and was the executive director of the Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation. He was also Secretary General of the International Tribunal on U.S. War Crimes in Indochina, founder and Director of the Vietnam Solidarity Campaign, and Director of the Who Killed Kennedy Committee.

He spent seven months in Bolivia in 1967 and was imprisoned there after the death of Che Guevara. He worked with Malcolm X with respect to the battle for the Congo and in the anti-imperialist struggle in eastern, central and southern Africa.

As radical causes in the Third World decreased, Schoenman and Mya Shone became active partisans for the Palestinian cause, and were directors of the Committee in Defense of the Lebanese and Palestinian Peoples during the 1982 Lebanon War, of the Palestine Campaign, which at the time of the first Intifada called for an end to all aid to Israel and for a democratic secular Palestine. During the Lebanon War Schoenman and Shone lived in a Palestinian refugee camp where they documented, with photographs, hundreds of murders. The couple claimed that the murders had been carried out by "Israeli agents," however extensive investigation has concluded that Christian Falange militias were in fact the culprits. Schoenman claimed to possess evidence of Israeli involvement, but has repeatedly been unable to produce any.

This, alomg with his conviction that Israelis or other Jews orchestrated the September 11, 2001 attacks, have caused some critics to accuse him of an anti-semitic motivation.

He also compares Reichstag Fire by the Nazis to 9/11 and impeded investigations into 9/11 by the Bush administration.

Author: Mya Shone

Shoneman's love intrest and co-conspiracy nut

JOE...where is your PROOF...why do you just post garbage that is other people's garbage.

Where are your CREDIBLE sources...COURT DOCUMENTS, PICTURES, Government findings, News reports, U.N. Findings.

How about Anybody other than Radical PINK-O nut cases!!!

It is this constant posting of activists citing activists. You have shown nothing here but more conspiracy theories.

Your again fail...

Truely Pathetic.

You want to link to something political, link to the Kevin Tillman article about his brother and fellow Ranger Pat Tillman's upcoming birthday:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/

I can guarantee you there's a lot more CrossFit in Kevin Tillman than any jackass at the weekly standard. This used to be a great place to focus on fitness and really push yourself with a group of fellow fitness nuts. It's devolved from CrossFit into CrossFire. Unsubscribed.

jt #140 my guess is you speak for the vast majority of crossfit users who come here for the workouts and do not waste everyone's time with political posts. Rest days should be renamed "Debate Gone Bad".

CCTJOEY writes,again "Where are your CREDIBLE sources...COURT DOCUMENTS, PICTURES, Government findings, News reports, U.N. Findings."

The sources of the info transmitted by Schoenmann
are,one more time for CCTJOEY

London Sunday Times, June 19, 1977.

136. Ibid., p.18.

137. Ibid. (also the citation for the above case-studies).

138. Ibid. For Rasmiya Odeh’s personal account, see also Soraya Antonius, “Prisoners for Palestine: A List of Women Political Prisoners”, Journal of Palestine Studies.

139. Lea Tsemel, “Political Prisoners In Israel – An Overview”, Jerusalem, November 16, 1982. Lea Tsemel and Walid Fahoum, “Nafha is a Political Prison”, May 13, 1980, and a series of reports (May 1982–February 1983). Felicia Langer, With My Own Eyes, (London: Ithaca Press, 1975). Felicia Langer, These Are My Brothers, (London: Ithaca Press, 1979). Jamil Ala’ al-Din and Melli Lerman, Prisoners and Prisons in Israel, (London: Ithaca Press, 1978). Walid Fahoum, two books of case histories, available in Arabic. Raja Shehadeh, Occupier’s Law: Israel and the West Bank, (Washington, D.C.: Institute for Palestine Studies, 1985). National Lawyers Guild 1977 Middle East Delegation, Treatment of Palestinians in Israeli-Occupied West Bank and Gaza, (New York: 1978). Amnesty International, “Report”, October 21, 1986. Ralph Schoenman and Mya Shone, Prisoners of Israel: The Treatment of Palestinian Prisoners in Three Jurisdictions, (Princeton, N.J.: Veritas Press, 1984) (Prepared in an abbreviated form for the United Nations International Conference on the Question of Palestine).

140. National Lawyers Guild, p.103.

141. Case Study: Ghassan Harb, Ramallah. London Sunday Times, p.19.

142. Case Study: Nader Afouri, Nablus. Schoenman and Shone, pp.22-26.

143. Case Study: Dr. Azmi Shuaiby, El Bireh. Schoenman and Shone, pp.30-32.

CCTJOEY please respond to this statement by Moshe Dayan,not Ralph Schoenmann:

"Moshe Dayan, former Chief of Staff and Minister of Defense, was uninhibited in his summary of the nature of Zionist colonization before students at the Israel Institute of Technology (The Techniyon):

We came here to a country that was populated by Arabs, and we are building here a Hebrew, Jewish state. Instead of Arab villages, Jewish villages were established. You do not even know the names of these villages and I do not blame you, because these geography books no longer exist. Not only the books, but also the villages do not exist.

Nahalal was established in place of Mahalul, Gevat in place of Jibta, Sarid in the place of Hanifas and Kafr Yehoushu’a in the place of Tel Shamam. There is not a single settlement that was not established in the place of a former Arab village." [64]

A detailed analysis of this process can be found in Janet Abu Lughod’s The Demographic Transformation of Palestine, in Ibrahim Abu Lughod, ed., The Transformation of Palestine (Evanston, Ill.: Northwestern University Press, 1971), pp.139-64.

64. Moshe Dayan, March 19,1969, Ha’aretz, April 4, 1969

Your method of not responding to the info and attacking the messenger is pathetic.

No matter what the topic,if a viewpoint is presented that opposes yours you ask for the source,not that this is unreasonable in and of itself.

The thing that is unreasonable is that you rail against those who the administration,through its media mouthpiece,tell you are evil,dictators etc. then when someone says 'hey,the U.S. is or has been allied with many of these evil dictators and has been for quite some time' or 'hey,Israel has done some of the exact same things or worse as those who you are saying are evil,dictators,etc. you label the poster as "Communist,leftist," etc.

When the poster provides links or posts excerpts from a book that provides evidence of what is being said,you rely upon attacks on the author as "conspiracy-nuts,communists,"etc. with no refutation of the evidence presented.

I have provided quotes from a book written by an author whose views you do not agree with,that is a given. However,many of these quotes come from the London Times,and Ha'aretz, but I'm sure that you will ignore the studies cited and instead look into the owners of those papers and come back with the shocking revalation that they are closet "communists,leftists,scialists,conspiracy nuts,"etc.

And you called me pathetic?

Joe..

I am traveling right now...I will get back with you on the London Times and Ha'aretz.

My point is that over and over you post not anything that one does not have to take a leap of logic or read into what the person said. This is at best. Normally you just re-post someones opinion piece and call it "facts".

The author Ralph Shoenman was even rebuked by his former boss and mentor for being over the top, over-zealous, and straight lying.

The fact that you do post excerps, uncited form leftist (Marxist is their description) characters and sources and call them truth is why you are wearing the label. Hey if you don't see these guys are dissillusioned PINK-O burnouts...roll another "J". Their is a straight forward agenda from a failed movement you are trying to push...I just merely point it out...Since you so rarely cite where you are getting your dribble, I don't feel the need to do much more than investigate the "proclaimer's" creditials. Turns out, more ofen than not, is a Radical Leftist...who admits it... you might as well quote Micheal Moore.

I am not going to sit here and try to deny that both the US and Israel have done things that are not to be proud of...however, if you think that there is a moral equivalence than we will never see common ground.

I will get back to you about what you ask...

CCTJOEY writes>>"Hey if you don't see these guys are dissillusioned PINK-O burnouts...roll another "J". Their is a straight forward agenda from a failed movement you are trying to push...I just merely point it out...Since you so rarely cite where you are getting your dribble, I don't feel the need to do much more than investigate the "proclaimer's" creditials">"I am not going to sit here and try to deny that both the US and Israel have done things that are not to be proud of...however, if you think that there is a moral equivalence"<<

Moral equivalence to what? You have yet to cite one specific case of anything done by anyone you have been led to BELIEVE is "evil."

CCTJOEY "The fact that you do post excerps, uncited form leftist (Marxist is their description) characters and sources and call them truth is why you are wearing the label. Hey if you don't see these guys are dissillusioned PINK-O burnouts..."

I post alternative viewpoints as a break from the usual conservative back patting that goes on.

You talk about reposting? Evrything you say has been spoon fed to you either from a talk radio hosts mouth or from the corporate controlled media so even if you reword their dogmatic ideologies,your ideas are not your own.

Let me leave you with this:

From Jacques Ellul. Propaganda: The Formation of Men’s Attitudes. New York: Vintage Books, 1973

"This need of a certain cultural level to make people susceptible to propaganda is best understood if one looks at one of propaganda’s most important devices, the manipulation of symbols. The more an individual participates in the society in which he lives, the more he will cling to stereotyped symbols expressing collective notions about the past and the future of his group. The more stereotypes in a culture, the easier it is to form public opinion, and the more an individual participates in that culture, the more susceptible he becomes to the manipulation of these symbols. The number of propaganda campaigns in the West which have first taken hold in cultured settings is remarkable. This is not only true for doctrinaire propaganda, which is based on exact facts and acts on the level of the most highly developed people who have a sense of values and know a good deal about political realities, such as, for example, the propaganda on the injustice of socialism, on economic crises, or on colonialism; it is only normal that the most educated people (intellectuals) are the first to be reached by such propaganda… All this runs counter to pat notions that only the public swallows propaganda. Naturally, the educated man does not believe in propaganda; he shrugs and is convinced that propaganda has no effect on him. This is, in fact, one of his great weaknesses, and propagandists are well aware that in order to reach someone, one must first convince him that propaganda is ineffectual and not very clever. Because he is convinced of his own superiority, the intellectual is much more vulnerable than anybody else to this maneuver…"

Joe.. funny
i could essentially say the same for your posts...

Your ending quote works both ways....

my contention is that based of experience...collectivism fails...the stronger the movement the faster it shits the bed.

Social Democracies are no different...look at the unemployment rates and productivity levels of these once great nations...at this point they could not even defend themselves, yet with their smugness they lashout at America and our president because he does not lean left as they would like...that was true before 9/11. Yet they know we would be the first to fight for them.