Is this ODU in norfolk, VA?...
We should really start up a CrossFit group here

swimming good on a rest day?

to Matt Brzycki:

"if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch"

Matt ain't drinking the Kool-Aid. We should send him some packets.

I don't need my pullup bar to come with a warning label.
"Please consult a physician prior to undertaking any physical training. Your kidneys may explode."

My cope comes with a warning label.
"This product may cause mouth cancer."

I'll take the risk with both. All I have to say about both is that "it satisfies."

'Matt Brzycki is the coordinator of Recreational Fitness and Wellness at Princeton University.'

I think this says it all - Nothing about this title says 'elite'.

Hmm, that's a pretty easy way to make some rings, albeit, they're not actually RINGS, but still. Anyone know how well those work?

Wow. What a scathing review of something that we here all love. It does make you take a step back and think about it for a bit. As a Nephrologist (Kidney doc) I do see quite a bit of rhabdomyolysis. A very small percentage of it is ever exercise induced and in the cases that are it is always combined with dehydration. Incidentally it also seems to have a prediliction for jail inmates trying to do a dare. The vast majority of rhabdo cases which are exercise induced leave no permanent damage to the kidneys or anywhere else. The crush injuries are much more significant because it is usually accompanied with dehydration. The recent publications on rhabdo from the 1999 Turkish earthquake wholly supports that claim.
Anyway, the biggest failure of the article was its lack of a "fair time" rebuttal. I have been on the program for 3 months now. I have never seen such impressive physical gains in myself in such a short period of time. There are many on this board with a similar experience. While this does not constitute a scientific study it is at least anectdotal evidence in the favor of crosfit. Also it should be realized that Crossfit is likely not a good modality for a large swath of the population.... it's just too hard. People need to realize this and tone the workouts to their own abilities.

Coach.... I certainly appreciate what you do for all of us here. Perhaps what you are preaching is a bit too revolutionary for some at this point.

Matt Brzycki's article is most notable for its absence of original thought. At least the author of the NYT article took the trouble to meet with people involved in the Crossfit program before going on to distort what she was told.

But this? "As a rule of thumb, CrossFit workouts don’t involve many exercises/activities." Mr Brzycki doesn't even appear to have clicked on the Exercises link that lists about the 50 different components to CF workouts. He certainly hasn't followed the program at all, otherwise he would know this to be demonstrably wrong.

And to suggest that anything less than strict pull ups renders a person susceptible to injury. Hands up who has injured themselves doing kipping pull ups? Mmm, didn't think so.

To be fair though, the primary objective of the article seems to have been achieved. Matt Brzycki did his photo in New Jersey Cops, didn't he?

Matt B. makes some relevant points as it relates to repetitive strain injury, rhabdo blah, blah, blah but natural selection in whatever form it takes would see to it that those genetically predisposed to longevity would apply the much emphasized "scalability" of CF.

The smart CrossFitters listen to their bodies and know their limitations. Most of us push those limitations to a reasonable limit to promote strength gains etc. without catastrophic affect. Others, well...

Matt has also missed the point on the balance CF seeks between the speed of the repititions and correct form. Many posts speak of the individual's desire to go slowly in order to concentrate on form. Speed comes later, yes?
The hallmark of the smart CrossFitter I would say.

I don't see a link to the Matt Brzycki article. Is anyone else having this problem?

The inherently dangerous snatch, clean, push-press, swing, and the others "rendered dangerous" by explosive motion?

And this guy is SWAT? Excuse me while I *run explosively* away from him and *leap ballistically* back into my garage gym filled with unsafe O-bar, rings which are violently kipped upon, and proceed to walk the raggedey edge into kick-his-slow-lifting-butt shape. Sheesh. Do these people not run? Have they not seen the hours of O-lifting coverage on ESPN every four years? Have they never thrown a ball? There's nothing dangerous about doing something fast, there's something dangerous about doing it wrong. And last time I checked, operationaltactics.com had kettlebell gear. It's pathetic.

Does he know how silly this sounds? "Having to do such a high volume of repetitions increases the risk of overuse injuries.

In addition, many of the recommended exercises/activities are inherently dangerous.

The menu of exercises/activities that’s listed on the main website includes the power clean, snatch, push jerk, push press and kettlebell swing. And even the exercises/activities that are otherwise safe become dangerous when they’re performed as rapidly as possible in a ballistic or explosive manner."

Now, it would indeed be terrible if a cop had to do something that was inherently dangerous, wouldn't it? And just imagine the craziness of doing an olympic lift explosively! Always better to be safe. Better call for backup, Matt!

D.J congrats on joining the muscle up club you rock!!!!

One of the fatal flaws of both this article and the NYT article is that neither acknowledges the need for participants to use their heads and exercise a little common sense. There's an assumption that if I behave like an idiot and persist in working out at a high rate of speed with too much weight using poor form in the face of incipient injury, somehow I'm not responsible for my distress and Crossfit is. What a crock!

Sorry, Matt, but if you're too stupid to scale the workouts to your abilities, then Crossfit isn't the problem; you are.

Or the contrary to Brzychi's closing statement: 'Clearly, there's no need for you to be lazy in which you "get fat, even if it kills you.'

You have got to be kididng me!?! For a former Marine and apparent "expert" on SWAT fitness, Mr. Brzycki's article is a slap in the face of anyone with some common sense, as he should clearly have.

Anyone who enters any sort of exercise program with half a brain, knows that moderation is the key. This moderation is then part of a progression to perfection of movement, technique, and range until the demands placed upon the individual can meet the requisites of the exercise program's upper standards. If this is not met and followed, then yes, you will hurt like hell, and you may end up sick or dead.

If I told Mr. Brzycki my new workout program was going out to the pitchers mound and throwing a baseball as fast as you could for 100 reps, I would think someone may get hurt in the process if they had no knowledge or background of what in the hell they were doing. I could imagine a few shoulder surgeons profiting from my idiotic new exercise regime. But what about the guy who walks up to the mound, not knowing the intricacies of "throwing heat", and learns and works his way into it over time? He probably walks away with a new found shoulder strength and no injuries. So, Mr. Brzycki, what's the difference between this and any other exercise regime; i.e, Crossfit?

Here's the real deal; If you don't know what you're doing, you will get hurt - bottom line. In anything, from exercise to driving a car. Instead of being ignorant and bashing something, Mr. Bryzcki should take the time to learn about the proper fundementals beforehand. If he were such an "exercise and fitness expert", then Mr. Bryzcki would know this. Mr. Bryzcki, you should learn about your subject matter in it's entirety before you create widely ditributed editorials about the matter at hand.

Lastly, as a cop myself in a fast paced, large department and a hi risk job assignment, I can personally attest to the fact CF is part of my officer safety plan. I have used the fitness gained from it before, and it may be the reason I can sit here and write this rebuttal to Mr. Brzycki's ridiculous editorial. I, like anyone else who has some sense, worked ito it slowly until the exercise was correct and fluid. I didn't die and I wasn't injured in the process.

Any cop worth his salt should be open to new ideas and willing to make an effort to learn and adapt to a better way of training to enchance their odds of officer survival. This job is no joke, Mr. Bryzcki, it's time you realized you are shortchanging yourself and any other cop you have come in contact with by your narrow minded approach and philosophy to work and training. Stupid...that's the only word that comes to mind over this entire article.

The "New Jersey Cops" on-line magazine will also be getting my two cents worth about the ridiculous article Mr. Bryzcki has decided to write.

To the rest of us who believe, take care, stay fit, and be safe!

Comments from a 17 year SWAT operator:
Operational Tactics clearly has been "dealing" with Crossfit Comments during their Operational Fitness Certification Programs. They very simply had the market and are now being challenged by Cossfit.
Stuart Meyers and Matt B. have been asked over and again about Crossfit. So I for one expected this. He simply has written an article that will be shipped to Agency heads that also get his Fitness Flyers, and E-bulletin. It is a closed market of free police magazines he can flood. He uses it to wave a banner saying: DANGER !! Crossfit DANGER !!Then he shouts I have a solution !! It's Operational Fitness, and it's SAFE !! do ours not theirs.
I have already dealt with it at my agency. But thanks to the collection of information at my fingertips on the forum,articles in print, video AND Seminar Certification. Our agency is good to go.
So reading the article just makes me smile. Then I go to the gym, and PUKE. My friend Mike Street says...Get some.....Go Again. I agree.

And at the very sound advice of Mr. Rippetoe - Matt better get a backup, UPFRONT !

Anyone else notice the one glaringly common variable between the NYT, L.A. Times, and today's article? That variable appears to be direct experience, or the total lack of it. The NYT writer and this Matt B. person did not directly experience what they then go on to write about with such 'expertise'.

The L.A. Times writer actually did Crossfit for two months and had a completely positive take on the programming. Go figure.

You know what they say about opinions and ***holes...

What a meager attempt at defending a position against CF. It reminds me of your typical high school essay. Find one random fact and try to build a case around it with lots of fluff. My old English teacher used to write a big "BS" in the margins of papers like that (he said it meant "be specific", but we all knew what he really was saying).

In any case, I'm sure that articles like this will keep away those people who are intimidated by CF (and this is good!). It's appropriate that only those who can objectively analyze their own abilities and scale their efforts should attempt CF.

I've been an athlete and a gym rat my entire life (39 years young) and I've even been a certified personal trainer. But, CF is the hardest workout regimen I've ever maintained, and the past four months on the program have been very rewarding. I've even had kidney stones several years ago so, believe me when I say STAY HYDRATED! And, it doesn't have to be Kool-Aid!

It would seem to me that Mr. B is either illiterate or completely lacks any computer savy. It would take one of those two circumstances to completely miss the several free articles that say "Consistency before Intensity", use/learn perfect form, etc.

I personally love hearing from people like Mr. B. The more he speaks out against true fitness the less rif-raf will be soaking up resources better used by those wanting to participate. I am a patient man and am willing to let natural selection prove me right (or wrong, as the case may be).

Pass the Kool-Aid.

Matt Brzycki's article is in line with his general philosophy outlined in "A Practical Approach to Strength Training", which I have found to be another viable method for gaining strength quickly. He espouses lower reps/max load to failure in one set and eschews Olympic lifting for all of the 'standard' reasons touched on in his article. His workouts cover the entire body, calves-to-neck, each time you hit the gym. The book is university level courseware, from the mid/late 90's.

I've followed his program and found it to be effective. In fact, it was the program I was following prior to starting CrossFit. However, CrossFit benefits from the competitive nature (against oneself and other members of the community) as a source of intensity. It is the extreme sport version of working out.

Anyway, before anymore "big dog", "elite" and "narrow minded" comments flood the message board I thought a couple of comments from someone who has read his book and tried both approaches was appropriate.

Gotta love the rest days.

Dave

I emailed the website with questions/comments about the article and, unsurprisingly, never heard back.

From a Marine Drill Instructor, to SWAT fitness author, to the director of "Recreational Fitness and Wellness?" He should know better. A large portion of CrossFit devotees aren't interested in "Recreational Fitness and Wellness." We're interested in being fit enough to go home in one piece every night. This is elite fitness, not a program for obese and out of shape America.

Byzycki probably would have fallen over if he'd used a WOD like Fight Gone Bad or the Filthy Fifty as his example.

I'd expect a former Marine (for whose service I am grateful) to have thick enough skin to appreciate the Pukey and Rhabdo t-shirts.

I've done nothing but CrossFit since October, and as a big city cop I've never felt better prepared to do my job. Thanks Coach!

One more thing. Six cases of Rhabdo out of what must be about a million WOD's completed by now. Do the math! I bet we could find 6 people who were seriously injured when they didn't set the catch pins correctly on the leg press and the sled came crashing down on them.

Wallball puts enormous stress on the shoulders and lower back?! What a fairy! No wait, I just insulted fairies. Matt Brzycki, I am truly embarassed for you. If TJ (comment #18) is right about what he says, I hope you got more than a few pieces of silver for selling your soul and selling out your brothers and sisters.

Maybe it's because this is in Journal for LEOs but it reminds of when the Glock came out. "It'll never work." "You can't make a gun out of plastic." "It's dangerous." "It'll fall apart after 500 rounds." Etc., etc., etc. Oops!

Brzycki has been railing against "momentum" exercises for a long time. That is the HIT trainees dirty word. Too bad life involves momentum and not sitting in your powder coated machine. Don't believe me? Ask a police officer to do the following exercise without momentum and see how things go: Chase after a bad guy who just attacked your wife (use no momentum running.) When he catches him, throw a no momentum punch, or swing his baton without momentum to put him down. Train like you play. Out.

Itall has been written before. The man did not do his research. We, as people who follow the crossfit "routine" know better, it works, is fun and is very very effective.
I have not done so many different exercises during my 20+ years of regular fitness training than when I started doing the WOD's.
As a cop and fitness instructor I say: do your homework before you attack.

happy healthy training, Johan

Trying to be dispassionate about it, there seem to me to be 3 basic things said in this article:

First, CF encourages doing exercises which are inherently unsafe or doing exercise in a way or in numbers which is or are unsafe. Well, that's a matter of opinion to some extent. Plainly people on this site defer to a contrary opinion and consider that to have been formed on a more sound basis. On the other hand some of us may have held similar opinions to those of the writer in the past, so it is difficult to be too critical.

Second, there are the references to "rhabdo". Putting those next to the discussion of CF creates the unstated suggestion that CF puts its exponents at greater risk of rhabdo. But greater than what? Greater than that of people who do no more than mild exercise? Probably correct, but pretty much irrelevant. Greater than that of other forms of strenuous exercise? Now if you could say that you might be saying something. But the writer fails to come out and say that, merely leaving the reader to gain that impression without putting forward any supporting evidence.

Third, there is the suggestion that CF encourages a culture of extremes - by referring to the light-hearted "Pukie" and "Rhabdo" cartoons and what I would take as a fairly off-hand and ironic comment from Coach as if they were serious reflections of what CF was about.

To me, a logical gap as large as that under the "second" point and distortion as gross as that under the "third" seriously discredit the rest of the article.

Is anyone who has been here for a while really surprised after the NYT article? I didn't bother reading the second page. When I saw the "inherently dangerous" O-lifts, I started laughing. As a Marine, I'm embarassed by this guy. And as someone else said, the logical gaps in his article are ASTOUNDING. But, because he is a "fitness expert", a lot of people will never even question his assumptions ("I heard Oly lifting is inherently dangerous!" "Yeah, I heard repetitive exercising results in overuse injuries!") What an idiot. Someone should ask him to put his money where his mouth is. As Coach (and others) have said before - we'll put our numbers and people up against any group, doing exercises/workouts of theirs and ours and let's see what's what. THAT's where the proof is. I opine that Matt B's "recreational wellness" students would get smoked. Bad. And that's exactly why he's decrying CF, as someone noted above - 'cuz he's got his "own thing" and CF just crushes everything he believes about fitness. Better to just blindly tear it down than face the truth about it.

'Forging Elite Fitness'.That should be a clue that the CrossFit is tough.

J Bell (comment #7): i've been using some home-made rings of a similar design and while they're great for dips and pull-ups, i've found it difficult to employ the all-important "false grip" on the straight pipe section. so, uh, yeah, that's why i haven't been able to do a muscle up yet :)

This winter I started doing CrossFit along with two other guys from my SWAT team. We were immediately impressed with the program and began to see gains in our strength and speed. Our numbers improved on our SWAT PT tests and our scores rank at the top of the team.

On the other hand, last spring six people from our department started a marathon training program. Every single one of them suffered some type of injury as a result of the "highly reptetitive" movement induced by their training. If Matt Brzycki is really worried about safety, he should get busy writing an article about distance running. Then he can write an article about trying to arrest a true bada$$ when all you've done is trained "recreationally."

This reminds me of the conversation I had with one of my friends, a personal trainer. I was telling him about my love/hate relationship with dumbbell swings and he said, "Oh I never tell people to do those kinds of exercises." He cited the risk of injury as the biggest factor. "If you don't have good form, you can just destroy your back doing those things."

I think that people like this make a point in that a novice weightlifter must ease him or herself into Crossfit weight-wise. What I told my friend was that I felt more likely to be injured doing eight chest isolation exercises over the course of two hours in the gym than a few rounds of 400m runs, dumbell swings, and pullups. Would there be no opportunity for injury doing the inverted reverse supine swiss ball crossover cable flyes?

I always wonder what the people that criticize the Crossfit regimen do for a workout/advocate themselves. A cursory search of Amazon shows a number of books bearing Brzycki's name. The cover of the first one has a picture of a guy curling a dumbell (or at least staring very intently at the dumbell). Perhaps I am the only one, but I have an inherent distrust for exercise specialists who have anything to do with the curl.

He must be a democrat! Haha, just had to throw in some politics for fun.

Seriously, who gives a crap what he has to say. Results speak for themselves. I think part of the mystique of anything is the "chance" someone could "die" from something you do. It adds some street cred.

Mel Brooks said it best, "Tragedy is when I cut my finger; comedy is when I fall into an open sewer and die." It's all about the stories.

I'll keep Matt's "safe" and "unoffensive" words in mind everytime I leave the gate in Baghdad with loaded weapons and 70 pounds of gear on me.

P#$sy.

On a serious note, I have two suggestions for new shirts:

"Get fit, even if it kills you..."

and "Renal failure is no laughing matter..."

I'll buy the first one that is made.

Keep up the good, hard work everyone. Know that many Green Berets, Seals and Delta Force types are crossfitting right along with you everyday!

-Dennis

'An extreme form of training known as “CrossFit,” is being marketed heavily toward the law enforcement and military communities.'

Interestingly, CrossFit isn't doing the marketing. Other law enforcement and military personnel who found their way to the program, unsolicited, experienced it and then saw something beneficial, are.

From the inception of the program and the website, workouts and world class coaching advice in a variety of sports and physical disciplines have been given away. Who is doing all that coaching? Coach provided a forum, elite level coaches found their way to the community, unsolicited, and came aboard.

From the inception of CrossFit, all that has ever been asked for in return is honest feedback. For the feedback to be honest though, good or bad, there has to have been an experience. That is what I find so disappointing in the article and in the author.

TJ #18 hits the nail on the head. This "expert" is being hurt in his pocketbook by CrossFit, so he attacks it. We are going to see a lot more of this. And if an injury lawsuit ever comes down the pike bozos like this will line up to testify for the plaintiff. CrossFit threatens their world, they are small minded to begin with, and they will fight like cornered rats.

As an example of what we might expect in the future, there is an article in the current BFS magazine by a Dr. Mark Rabinoff, "a full professor at Metro State College in Denver, CO who teaches weight training classes with an emphasis on safety." But where he really butters his bread is by giving seminars on weightroom safety, consulting to design you a safe weightroom, and by testifying in injury cases as a "saftey expert." Basically, if you don't run your gym the way he likes, he'll testify against you. And here's the logic: you must run your gym or do your exercise according to published standards, and if there are no published "standards" for an exercise it is stupid and dangerous to do it, and you can be sued and someone like him will testify against you. According to this parody of bureaucratic logic you should never do anything that has not been approved by experts like him, and by this same logic it would be dangerous to breast feed children since there are no written standards for it.

As CrossFit spreads there will be more attacks by "experts" who are whores for the big money, machine dominated fitness model. As for me, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"

"You wouldn't prepare for a concussion by banging your head against the wall."

You sure about that?

"Matt Brzycki is the coordinator of Recreational Fitness and Wellness at Princeton University. A former Marine Drill Instructor, he has authored, coauthored or edited 14 books on strength and fitness, including SWAT Fitness (available at www.operationaltactics.org)."

So no conflict of interest there then.

Question:

Has anyone read about the adverse affects of SPLENDA?

Comment:

The NYT article has been forwarded to me from several of my friends. All of which realize that if you haven't been training for quite some time (as the Tacoma cop admits) you probably shouldn't start swinging a 45 lb plate over your head. Maybe ease into it first. But that's just common sense talking.

I love these anti-CF articles but, then again, I don't have a business to run. I do, however, have violent housing projects to patrol and gangsters to chase and fight so, all that considered, I'll continue to do this stuff for a third year and hope it gets me through the next couple of foot-chases, resisters and shootings with the same proficiency proven thus far.

Then again, what do I know about police work?

-D.

Nice to know that I'm not the only one disturbed by this article. With his example taken from the NYT article, didn't that officer/former Ranger get out of the hospital and get right back into Crossfit? Wonder why that was? Thanks to all of you who are dedicated to yourselves and your profession.
Train Hard!
Tim L

He's not a cop

He's not SWAT

He's writing about a successful practice with controversy because he's not involved with it

Aligning himself with Operational Tactics should have given you a clue

A marine at princeton? C'mon!!!!

Rocked out The St George's Day WOD from Brand X today;

3 rounds for time of;
500m row
21 ring dips
21 thrusters (used 14kg dbells)
21 l pullups

time: 24.27

ouchy...

As for the CrossFit basher...whatever dude, i'm happy in my dangerousnessnessness, this stuff rocks, THANKS COACH!

If you don't know much about a particular topic, shut up and listen. Do your research and then try it with honest effort.

Then if you still feel the same, at least your opinion will be respected. As it stands now, Matt Brzycki is just another guy with a misinformed opinion that is a direct result of his own laziness.

I have some Crossfit friends at Princeton. The deal on Matt is, he is a huge HIT advocate, and thinks everything else is stupid and/or dangerous. He has published several books on strength training and is actually a pretty smart guy. However he is entirely divorced from the real world. He used to be training most of the Princeton sports teams, then for whatever reason, they demoted him to "health and wellness advisor," whatever that means, and brought in some new people who incorporate squats and olympic lifts to work with the soccer, lacrosse, and football teams.

"And you wouldn't prepare for a gunfight by getting shot at with real bullets. In short, you wouldn't prepare for a dangerous line of work by performing a dangerous type of training."
quote from the article

As a Marine myself I find this part particularly disturbing. For while the Marine Corps has never shot at me, I am certain it has been some time since any US service person has been sent to combat without at least hearing rounds snap overhead in training. In fact I have no doubt the author has heard rounds snap overhead in training. Also while all training should be done in the safest way possible, I know that the job I and many others train for are "inherently dangerous" and for that reason so is our training. And the training is that is inherently dangerous is not my Crossfit training, that's probably one of the safest thing I do all day.

If you don't warm up or are out of shape then doing kipping pullups probably will hurt you. But if you have read Coach's guidance you wouldn't do that.

I find it hard to believe that the author has studied the methodology of Crossfit in any detail.

One comment on Matt B...WEAK...

The article is obviously from the point of view that exercise should be simple and 'dumbed down' to machines and running. That individual muscles will collectively produce a strong whole. This clearly couldn't be further from the truth. Did this guy hate PT in the military or something? The fact is CrossFit expects and demands it's clients and participants actually learn functinal movements. I find that the people that knock CrossFit simply don't understand nor know how to teach the lifts. They usually fear testing their own limits and lack the discernment to test the limits of others. Any CrossFit Coach or participant that cuts corners on form or allows bad habits is dangerous, on that point I'll agree. What CrossFit is doing is bringing back a knowledge element to exercise. When you lack knowledge it is hard to support the CrossFit approach. I guess since the article didn't seem to include interviews or research apart from the NY Times article this should piece should have been labeled opinion, untested and biased. I can't wait to see an article comparing the level of fitness in men and women on CrossFit for 5 years to the thighmaster crowd. Fortunately for us reasonable men and women on Police forces nationwide don't actually look up to this guy for fitness education. we should all remember that chances are this guy just added hundreds of new participants to the CrossFit rolls by republishing someone elses article. That is a good thing for cities around the country. We should send him a pukie T-shirt. Final note, you should'nt prepare to become a writer by copying someone elses story and distributing it as your own.

I still find it amazing that people laugh off the six cases of rhabdo so easily. I've played soccer, rugby, gaelic football and in all of my training with some unbelievably fit people, several of whom went on to play at the highest level - I had never even heard of rhabdo.
OK, these articles appear to be a bit one-sided but there is a sense on this board of people slavishly following the Crossfit line no matter what.
Perhaps, it is time that beginners were warned even more clearly that exercising this hard has very serious dangers that they are not fully aware of. I'm sure most people realise that they can cause themselves an injury. Most don't realise they could actually end up in hospital with rhabdo.
I think the unique problem that Crossfit has is that the workouts often don't look that difficult at all on paper until you actually try to do them.

I stopped reading at "Having to do such a high volume of repetitions increases the risk of overuse injuries."

The only good article was written by someone who took the time to try it and see what it really is.

There was a referance to a LA Time article,anyone have a link to it? As far as Bryczki's article it seems to assume that anyone who takes up XFit is going to immediately jump in and do the WOD as rx.He's right some of these exercizes are dangerous if not done properly and and fast as possible.I personally do not know anyone who has done that. The Message Board constantly preaches form over speed.I do enjoy the dialogue and the response to the criticism.All I know is that XFit,even in moderation works for me

hey guys just started about a weekago and wanted to know what is the best way to learn(train) how to do a handstand and more importantly a handstand pushup. are their any websites that provide tips or training regiments for doing a hspu. also until i reach the point of doing a hspu what exercise should i do instead. i know they have several different ones listed in the FAQ but i wanted to know what everyone thougth the best sub was. also just wondering if inclined benchpress or inclined pushups are a reasonable sub, the inclined bp would be good only because the way i have things set up in my "gym" at home. any help is much appreciated.

Can Matt Bryzcki do a pull-up?

Has he ever kissed a woman on the lips?

It says in the FAQ scale the wod to your ability,
i dont think i would do the Ironman my first day of training. People just need to relax a little

#50
You are right, however, CrossFit does warn people of it's dangers as well as potent effectiveness.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/start-how.html
-In any case it must be understood that the CrossFit workouts are extremely demanding and will tax the capacities of even the world's best athletes. You would be well advised to take on the WOD carefully, cautiously, and work first towards completing the workouts comfortably and consistently before "throwing" yourself at them 100%. The best results have come for those who've "gone through the motions" of the WOD by reducing recommended loads, reps, and sets while not endeavoring towards impressive times for a month before turning up the heat. We counsel you to establish consistency with the WOD before maximizing intensity.-

Everyone on this board has an example of how effective this program is. It just amazes me that a program that actually demands people to think and use common sense is so dangerous. More people died driving to Bally's last year than from CrossFit. CrossFit is simply saying if you want to be fit, and skilled, practice, train and learn something. I just think CrossFit goes against the grain of commercialized fitness. Heck we have a number of gyms that are'nt even staffed here, doesn't say much for the staffs at every other gym. I love accountability, being accountable for your own health, fitness and risk taking. Participants are warned. CrossFit can't and shouldn't be held responsible for anyone who jumps right in without heeding the warnings and advice on how to start, Just a Chevy isn't responsible for anyone who decides to drive on the wrong side of the street.

Kefu, #50, excellent point. This is a dangerous sport in which we're involved, and the risks need to be known so that people can play smart (or decide not to play at all). I was aware of the risks early on, but had to dig for them a bit.

Utah, #33, another excellent point. As an old fart (42), I have several friends who've been subjecting themselves to endurance sports for the past ~20 years. To a man, they all regret having put all those miles on their broken bodies. I remember back in the mid-80's the Marine Corps Commandant threatening to do away with the Marine Corps marathon because he'd had about enough of his marines becoming emaciated distance athletes.

As an Air Force guy, serving at a time when the USAF is trying to overcome years of an absurdly ineffective fitness program, I'm working out alongside folks who've had essentially no physical activity for years. The current program requires a narrow waist, pushups, situps, and a 1/5-mile run. It's a definite improvement over the weird computer-controlled ergo-cycle test of the past few years. But the ability to perform a few dozen pushups and situps, plus knock out a mile and a half at a 12-minute pace is far short of the physical fitness required to drag a broken body (yours or someone else's) from a bunker. Crossfit develops the power and well-roundedness to react quickly to whatever might come along. If that's a skill that one needs to have, then one is going to have to accept certain amounts of risk in order to achieve it. But, as Kefu has so objectively observed, there is certainly risk involved.

I'm still amazed at the in-fighting within the fitness community (e.g., between Crossfit and T-Nation). It seems that our collective concern would be focused towards the sedentary rather than the active. Different programs achieve different things in different ways. Crossfit is perfect for me (I got no interest in bodybuilding), but not for everyone. I'm glad there are so many fitness choices (but cringe nonetheless at the overweight men in my gym reading the Wall Street Journal while lazily pedaling their exercise bikes).

Regarding overuse injuries:

Would it be better to do reps of the same exercises, workout after workout, week after week, month after month on an HIT program,
OR
Would it be better to do a significant amount of reps in one day, then leaving your body plenty of time to repair itself in between.

Overuse to me implies chronic use of a movement, resulting in wear and tear over time, not an acute bout of exercise.

I'm going with the latter statement being preferable, based on my own anecdote. That being said, it wouldn't be true for CF and pullups...

Mr. B's article has many holes as others have already noted. Most distrubing for me is his lack of acknowledgement for the guidance and support that the website and forum provide. Yes Crossfit, as with any exercise, can be inherently dangerous, but approached sensibly the benefits far outweight the small risks.

That being said I think he does raise some important issues regarding Pukie. While I consider Pukie lurking as a sign of having worked hard in a good way, many newcomers will be turned off by the thought of workout out until you puke. Is Crossfit's seeming glorification of Pukie doing a disservice to the CF community by scaring off potential newcomers who would otherwise gain great benefits from the workouts?

From reading Matt's article it would just seem to me that he has latched on to the idea that physical exercise, done without contraint and with no clear goal in mind may hurt you.

He also seems to want to hang up on the idea that it's all about speed with us CF'ers , when in fact the most common mantra that I can see among us is that regardless of how fast ro slow your workout may be, FORM is all important!

As for picking on Pukie, that’s just plain wrong. Also, thanks for telling me that renal failure is not in fact funny, because I was wondering I how I could get me some of that. Remember, us Internet Jockies are too busy clambering for t-shirts to think straight!

It would seem to me that Matt is simply worred that people will stop needing to buy on his the 14 books he authored or co-autored and those royalties may stop coming in!

In other news, I did Jackie yesterday, I took me 13 minutes and guess what……..I didn't die!

Now putting that fitness industry nonsense on ignore. Power level to maximum.

Dave #20,

Sorry, but anyone that eskews olympic lifting is automatically disqualified from being taken seriously, I don't how "effective" there program is.
His workouts cover the whole body from calves to neck? Well, guess what, so does olympic lifting, IN ONE EXERCISE. The benifits of CrossFit of his program are far more numerous than just our "competetive nature."

Whoops, I meant Dave #22.

Mikey T (#53),
First, try to kick up into a handstand against the wall. This will take most of the "balance" element out of the movement. Try to do HSPUs with a reduced range of motion from this position. Turning your hands outward (i.e. rotating left hand counterclockwise and right hand clockwise) will allow you to go deeper. If this doesn't work for you, progressively heavier shoulder presses will get you strong enough to start. For handstand advice, try beastskills.com or drillsandskills.com. Both have good tutorials. In the future, click on the message board link on the homepage. Using the search feature will give you tons of helpful information. Just remember to change the number of days worth of posts you're searching.

That was pretty pathetic. did Matt say that a 20lbs ball was enormous weight?

it says he was a marine drill instructor. doesn't sound very hard to me, it just means he can yell loud profanities at recruits.

ok I read the article, and while i have about a 1% agreement on the fact that crossfit can be dangerous if you dont know what your doing, he is forgetting a some key element that crossfit provides, one of which is a mental exercise. thats right,doing crossfit may not prepear you for curing cancer but is teaches you mental toughness, learning how to go that extra mile ,or extra set of pullups,when you have no more to give. the mental workout that crossfit provides is key to survival is combat situation wheather its in the streets of Baghdad or the streets of NY.

the argument over mementum is a question of form or function. kipping pullups may not work the back as much as a struct pullup, but this is real world training, functional training. and in the real world you have your whole body at your disposal. when im chasing down some one in the street im not going to be limited to just one muscle area im going to use everything physcly at my disposal bacause im not being judged on my form, it wether or not i bring the bad guys in. this is the real world, and im not some steroid pumping frat boy whos muscle is nothing but for show and would probably go down after 10 minuets of "murph", waiting around a benchpress for 45 minuest to do a total amount of 25 reps is a waste of time and effort. i need to have function.

it is also pretty well known that any exerxice over the years is inherantly dangerous, i used to run track and cross country in highschool and i still keep in touch with most of my old team mates. the ones that continued to run over the 15 years since highschool now have some kind of knee or hip problem, while the ones that stopped gained about 50lbs of fat and couldent run a mile even if they were chasing a bag of oreos. its really a question of do you want to be fat or do you want to have a knee problem. being a chubby kid for about the first 12 years of my life i know that i would rather be inshape and have to take an asprine every morning than not being able to see my toes. my wife may not like this but i would also rather die at age 55 in shape doing what i love than die at age 85 living on a ventalator and a fistfull of medication every day.

P.S. that guy with the kettlebell swings that went to the hospital in the article must have had previous back problems and no matter what the benefits are if you have a problem area you should modify a workout, i myself have a bad right knee, it wount keep me form doing crossfit, what it means is that anything that is lower body inensive i wrap my knee reduce the reppage and increase the upperbudy workout,at the end i ice my knee reguardless of pain level, this guy was just an outlier

Long posts, many many long posts, and OPINIONS! Too many free opinions, this free and open forum filled with above average intelligence is what they are truly afraid of. I think that many are not only afraid of people actually getting fit by doing something of which they can not do, due to sheer lack of understanding. They are mostly afraid of intelligent and hard working people getting fit and actually coming together and building a community such as this. I think that arrogance and stubborness sentence those like Mr.Brzycki to mediocrity and recreational athletics.

by the way i've heard of people dying while having sex, does that mean its dangerous? should I stop, Matt?

"You know what really grinds my gears?" (a quote from Peter Griffon, a man who reminds me of another man who wrote an article)

10k perimeter run 42:39

I need my advantages. Bad guys try very regularly to keep me from coming home. I train hard. I choose to do so. There were other good points on training too. I guess it still comes down to personal decision. When I give up the chase, I will still push myself toward "living like I was dying" Crossfit works. For me it works better than Op. Tactics Fitness Prgram. So. without taking up the sword and running down the mountain, I say again, Crossfit is it. The revelance of these posts are already filed for another fight, another day.

i think Mr. Brzycki puts operators (police/fire/military) in danger but protects the general public.

Most people can be content to go to the gym spend an hour or so talking and doing the occasional bicep curl and bench press. This prepares them for their world, sitting at a desk or attending a dinner party and looking "fit".
BUT:
People whose lives (and the lives of their teammates) depend in being able to breach a concrete wall while wearing body armor or an SCBA, are much safer with crossfit. In our lives it's not the workout that will kill us; it’s meeting the terrorists, criminals, and fires head on. What if the Tacoma police officer wrecked his back while on a call in a hostile area? Could he or his partner afford to “lie in the driveway and collect himself”.

If doing 'O' lifts are dangerous what about swinging a battering ram at a door? or dragging a charged hoseline up a stairs on your knees? Could you afford to go down in this situation without putting yourself and/or your team in jeopardy?
'Ballistic' twisting motions that we must do on a daily basis will destroy a body that has been trained at your local gym with polished machines and plyo balls. i know because i’ve had several injuries despite being “in great shape”. Thanks to crossfit i’m redefining what fitness is.

The article belongs in the “living today” section of the Sunday newspaper not in a Police magazine!

God bless coach and all the operators around the world! (Even tenacious D & his right wing allies). Thanks for keeping us safe!

Ratt

JBell

Try the link below, these work well for just about any CrossFit workout.

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/26/10263.html

two comments:
CrossFit isn't for the idiotic. It's for people who have enough common sense to provide themselves with motivation AND the moderation necessary for survival.

And as for rhabdo not being a laughing matter...man, I am going to laugh at everything I can. Life is too short to not laugh at every opportunity. And just because something is deadly serious doesn't mean that it can't also be funny.

Good comments all. Especially #74. Oh,yeah. I will do WOD as prescribed...

"The sample WOD that was noted earlier consists of 105 repetitions for each of the exercises/activities. Having to do such a high volume of repetitions increases the risk of overuse injuries."

So how are we supposed to prepare for the very real occasions in life, such as helping out with a house move, that have us moving and hoisting 10's if not 100's of items of all weights and sizes for several hours on end? The advice implied in this criticism, "don't do it", is sure to keep doctor's offices filled with people throwing out their backs shoveling snow, etc. This is bogus and dangerously unsafe advice.

Matt B. has been making a living as a HIT Jedi for at least 15 years. Pre CF I used to read his writing on a Website called Cyberfit or something like that as far back as 1994. He is a big Arthur Jones/Nautilaus proponent and has written dozens of articles about the dangers and lack of value for Olympic type movements. His writings make some sense, and for some portions of the population work pretty well. Interestingly, full time athletes are among the groups well served by his methodology. The idea is that strength and conditioning training is separate from skill and movement training. Football players can get stronger and fit in the gym and practice their skills with zero transferance difficulty. Or so the theory goes.

The problem with this is that life and work duties are not always such a narrow range of skills and movements. Law Enforcement and Military are two obvious groups that fall into this category. They need a wide range of skills and fitness pathways and most don't have time to separate training and skill/movement work. CF has clearly proven to be a very effective GPP solution for these groups. Matt B is coming at the training solution from a completely different direction and has a _long_ history of condescending commentry on dissent. Since Mr. Brzycki's livelihood is at stake, I'm not surprised that he goes on the record with his opinions.

best regards,
Bruce

I don't have time to read all the comments, so I apologize if this has been said already, but the simple, documentable fact of the matter is NO ONE HAS EVER DIED DOING CROSSFIT. Demographically, the most dangerous sports are horseback riding (you can fall off and break any bone you choose) and cycling (you get hit by a car), and it's a fact that most runners know someone who has died running. Here is a random article I dug up after a basic Google search. It was the first hit: http://running.syr.edu/column/20030106.html

Does anybody remember Jim Fixx?

We have 6, count them 6 cases of rhabdo, in, what? Let's say 1,000 people do the WOD or a version of it. I'm guessing that's low, but let's say. In the course of one year, the WOD will be done 365,000 times (ignore rest days), approx. Over the course of CrossFit's evolution to date, surely well over several million workouts have been done, cumulatively, by all participants?

Here is another link: http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/suddendeath/suddendeath.html

I scanned it, like is done in these internet things, but pulled off a few statistics. Here's one: " . . .in the Rhode Island study, there was one death per 7,620 joggers per year--clearly an infinitesimal risk for each individual jogger."

In this case, we have an actual, documented death rate. It is categorically clear that jogging and an increased risk of sudden cardiac arrest are related. Why is no one raising a hue and cry about this? Because we all die, and most people DON'T die from jogging. And, overall, if you jog and don't die you will usually feel better.

It is worth examining, though, if CrossFit doesn't actually DECREASE the risk of sudden death, because it seems to me intensity is qualitatively different from duration. I don't think the heart of the average jogger really gets worked unless they sprint. It would be like doing endless sets of 10 lb. curls, if you stay "aerobic", like Ken Cooper counselled. Most fitness joggers, if you ask them to do a 10x400 sprint, will be sore for days, if not weeks. They might get rhabdo, too.

The key to rhabdo, as I understand it, is that once your body is used to that intensity, the risk is largely gone. The guy in Seattle (Brian?, wasn't it?) was someone who HAD been extremely fit, and remembered it, but hadn't done INTENSE exercise in several years. Now he Crossfits regularly. Somehow that fact was omitted, too.

I have to go see a man about a horse, but I recall seeing an article showing increased cardiac fitness from 5 minutes/day of intense exercise. Maybe someone has or could dig that up.

Personally, I not only think we don't need to defend CrossFit, I think we can go on the offensive. Attack, attack, attack. Their flank is entirely undefended.

The entire tone of the article is paternalistic and condescending -- as though the average person is incapable of adjusting the WOD to allow for lack of experience or a level of fitness that is not quite elite yet. The author makes no allowance for good judgment or common sense, elitism in its worst sense. I've been on XF for two months. At 48 y/o BW 165, ht 6'2", I have been able to reach fitness levels I never have before experienced. I move better, feel better and look better. Some days I have to "dumb down" the workout to my level, but that's just another challenge -- a challenge you don't have to be an ivy league recreational specialist to meet.

Argh! Someone please e-mail me the article. The link didn't work for me. Thanks!

I'm gonna go practice my form on my dangerous lifts. I am enjoying the fitness I have been building with CrossFit. Keep up the good work Coach.

Try the WOD, then write about it; otherwise it's a lop-sided argument.

Great comments today from all. Obviously, Matt has nary a clue of the effectiveness of the CrossFit method. Although forging Elite Fitness is the stated mission, I think that we in the community and potential inductees might be better served by realizing that "Elite" can be relative to ability and age. I'm turning 47 tomorrow and am continuing to see significant improvements in my level of fitness, but I know the day is nigh that repeated WOD's will start to become more difficult and with weaker performances. I intend to put that day off as long as possible, but will continue to strive for Elite Fitness compared to my peer group. I have no illusions that I can compete with a dedicated 20-something Crossfitter in WOD times or loads, but will continue to try. I've been crossfitting since last October and heeded the message to start gradually. I have yet to experience significant injury, but realize that the potential exists, as with any activity (or non-activity for that matter). I intend to continue with the WOD's and to gradually scale back the reps or loads when and as necessary until I'm too old to get out of my chair. I think CrossFit methods can be applied for everyone. Indeed, who could possibly benefit more from improved functionality than the obese or elderly? Sadly, articles like this will close many minds. Thanks Coach!

Steve #80:

If the link completely failed, I can't help you. If it took you to the site, you can search (upper left) for "crossfit" and follow the link.

I feel compelled to post:

"The idea is to strengthen those structures so that they're more resilient to injury. It makes no sense, then, to injure yourself in the process of training to reduce your risk of injury."

I'm 50 yrs old. I came to Crossfit as a "Body for Life" alumni. Now, I give all credit to Bill Phillips for motivating me from being a terminally overweight couch potato into a fitness regime. So, BFL was my gateway. All due credit given. However, BFL was ultimately quite dangerous for me because it removed all of my cautious, sedentary instincts and gave me the false illusion that I was robustly fit. I acted on this illusion by doing things in "real life" that exceeded the limits of the BLF training regime. I was constantly surprised by how unresilient my body, which now looked "fit", actually was. Since starting Crossfit, I have found that my body has become much more resilient to the sort of robust, active lifestyle that I now pursue. This is due to the "magic in the movement" that is key to Crossfit.

Steve HB,

Emailed you the article.

i'll just say ditto to what has already been said...

Fellow crossfitters,

QUESTION: Have any of you had blood vessels burst on your face from doing HSPU? I recently had this occur around my eyes post workout. I would appreciate any thoughts or experiences with this.

Corey

What can be said about the article that hasn't already been said? It seems to me that Mr. Brzycki has a vested interest in holding the opinion that he has. By painting CF and the movements it embraces as "dangerous", etc. he (Brzycki) implies that his own methods are safer and more effective.

Whatever you say pal. All I know is that I've "been around the block" of the fitness world...a few times. And I've found a home here at CF. IMO, there is no better program for GPP.

I'm a student at Princeton, and a freshman member of the wrestling team (albeit a terrible one). Brzycki managed to convince our head coach several years ago of the efficacy of HIT-style strength training, and we accordingly performed full-body, nautilus-machine based workouts with 1 set to failure twice per week. I ended up doing most of my strength and conditioning work in the mornings on my own, after our coach repeatedly castigated me for "dangerous exercises" (the exercise in question? Bar-only overhead squats as a warm-up). I think that Brzycki's program is at least partially responsible for our team's extraordinarily poor performance this season, as we were almost uniformly muscled all over the mat. Just this past week, our head coach resigned/was asked to step down, so perhaps whoever replaces him will have a more enlightened attitude. Bottom line, Brzycki has no business marketing himself as a "performance-based" coach.

Do a google search on this guy, Brzycki. I know that he has written several texts and is an HIT (Mentzer, Darden, Jones) accolyte. That alone should speak volumes as to why he thinks the way he does.

I did Sundays workout.

BW 167lbs

Deadlift- 205lbs x5
Dips-30reps x5

13:00

Boy, I can't wait to scroll back and read the posts on this article. It certainly isn't my place to explain why the writer is dead flat wrong about CF (aka Crying Forbidden). Others can so do with greater knowledge, experience and eloquence. Putting on my litigator's hat for a moment, I think the article's apparent conclusion that CF is "dangerous" is ill-founded. The author appears to base his conclusion on reading the now infamous NY Times article (double hearsay)and his review of only one WOD, namely December 28, 2005. If he had looked at a wider range of WOD's and interviewed a broad cross section of people, both CFers and drop-outs, his opinion might be entitled to greater weight. Look, opinions are like noses-everyone has one, and this guy has decided to take a cheap shot at CF. I'm sure Coach could care less. What truly annoys me about this article is its relentless negativity and its failure to propose an alternative to CF that will enable one to attain elite fitness. What's your plan, Matt? Competitive line dancing? Water aerobics?

Ben (#90)...thanks for that first-hand insight into Mr. Brzycki's thinking/results. I for one appreciate your willingness to speak up, particularly in light of the fact that you're involved in the Princeton S&C program (and therefore in reasonably close proximity to the clown in question).

Cory (#88):

I had a blood vessel break in my eye during my aforementioned exposure to Body-For-Life workouts(leg pressing). I researched it and, for my part, concluded that it was fairly common and benign. You should investigate just the same.

I proudly wear my CrossFit "Dangerous" T shirt at every opportunity.

6 extremely serious events over years and thousands of participants is a Small percentage.

More people die and are seriously injured in Little League baseball, Football leagues and high school football, soccer and on and on................

There are warning on this FREE Site!!
There is a Getting Started Section!!

So let's all just sit home and stare at the wall.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE INTELLIGENCE OR COMMON SENSE TO READ THROUGH THE WARNINGS ON THIS SITE,AND TO START SLOW ,

THEN JUST STAY AWAY!!

Tenacious D (#35)

I like your T-shirt ideas, in fact we have "Get Fit or Die Trying" T-shirts for sale at Crossfit North.

Using momentum in an exercise is an aspect of Crossfit that is commonly attacked. But how can something that "decreases involvement of muscular force" also "increase the potential for injury"?

Momentum is a fundamental component of sport, combat and life. Training that takes this into account is essential and basic.

Just goes to prove that magazine/newletters etc NEED something to fill the article space up with,

any stupid thing will do.

Back in the day when I went to High School before the pussy PE curriculum hit the fan,

THESE ARE THE TYPE OF WORKOUTS WE DID 3 DAYS PER WEEK!!!!!!!!!! AS JR HIGH AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS!!

We also had fights, played with sticks and stones!
At the contruction sites we used to have nail fights --- one rule was dont aim above the chest.
We made guns to shoot nails.
We made bombs from firecrackers.

We PLAYED WITH MATCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My mom used her spit as our antibacterial to clean my face when I was a baby.
A grocery bag was my air bag in the car.
My parents SMOKED!!!!!!!!!!!

I missed ONE day from work due to SICKNESS in the LAST 25 years!! SURF OFTEN IN THE BOTH THE ATLANTIC AND PACIFIC OCEANS FOR OVER 37 YEARS, YES EVEN NEAR THE DREADED SANTA CLARA RIVERMOUTH WITH ALL THE EVIL BACTERIA!!!!

Still alive too.

WE DIDN'T DIE, WE WERE WAY LESS FAT THAN THE AVERAGE JOE OF TODAY!!

( I got on a roll, I think I am done for now..dam*** )

hope my diatribe brought some humor to this.

I do not speak for Cross Fit, this is a personal opinion response, but I just wanted to reply to many points in the article titled "Cross Fit in the Cross Hairs", published March 2006. Though there are many varied opinions on the benefits and dangers of Cross Fit, there are some other factors to consider. You should at least research the program and know what you are talking about, which obviously did not happen. I do not disagree with every aspect of the article, just in the way it was presented. I am a 40 year old Marine that has been exercising and working out for most of my life, middle school through my 22 year Marine Corps career. I started Cross Fit on 29 Dec 2005, and am in better over all condition now than any time in my life. The negatives of Cross Fit, and there can be a few that are mostly associated with human error, are far outweighed by the positives. The key is following the below listed guidelines which are published on the Cross Fit Website under the "What is Cross Fit" and "Start Here" links. I have paraphrased to save space and time, but just a few minutes of research will justify the statements.
1. Cross Fit is an application used for everyone, regardless of experience or fitness level. They use the same program for elderly to elite athletes, you just scale load and intensity. The program doesn't change.
2. There is a journal published which assists people with techniques, theories and practices used in the program.
3. They offer seminars, certification and training.
4. It is recommend that if you are unfamiliar with exercises or technique that you substitute other exercises, which they provide a list, until you develop the skills, strength, balance and/or endurance to complete the listed exercises.
5. It is recommend that you begin learning the exercises for a month or two until you are familiar and comfortable with them.
6. You are advised to you perform the WOD "carefully, cautiously, and work first towards completing the workouts comfortably and consistently before throwing yourself at them 100%". Going through the motions and reducing loads, reps and sets when starting out, before maximizing intensity.
7. There is provided a detailed link to instructional video's and/or slide shows for each exercise, so that you can actually learn to perform them properly right on the website.

Yes, it is an intense program once you go "full speed". Yes, Pukie the clown has been at my side a number of times. Yes, there have been times I've had to lay down for 15 minutes just to recuperate enough to take a shower and get back to work. But in under 4 months, starting out slow and easy, learning the techniques first, as recommended, my times and loads have increased significantly, and I have documented each workout along the way and done extra running and swimming along with the WOD.

People are responsible for their decisions, not programs. You can get hurt doing any type of training or exercise; any type of training that is going to improve you will have risk involved. If people who are out of shape, with an attitude of "I used to do this all the time" get in there and hurt themselves by not following the simple, easy to read instructions, recommendations and videos of a program, the program is not to be blamed, they are destined to hurt themselves anyway.

EVEN MY HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE WITH ONE ARM HAD TO TAKE PE AND DO THE BEST HE COULD!!!!!!!!!!

SWIMMING CLASS TOO, ONLY " BREAK " -HE WAS ALLOWED TO USE THE LADDER TO GET OUT OF THE POOL.

HE HAD LESS REPS...
NO GETTING OUT OF IT COMPLETELY!!!!!

HE IS STRONGER FOR IT AND HAS A GOOD LIFE, NOT CONDITIONED TO BE A F***ING VICTUM!!!!

My analysis of the article - Matt B thinks Crossfitters are cavelier about the program and naive about the danger of overtraining, with pukie and rhabdo as his evidence. Everything else is noise driven by Matt's dissenting view on training.

The dangers of Crossfit lies directly with the user. You must be aware of your limits, and must be smart enought to "get to know" CF before diving in.

One thing that I do not know, and too lazy to research is, of the six rhabdo cases, how many occured with people new to CF? It is that transitional period between a previous program (or none at all) that is the biggest shock to a newbie. I could not believe how sore I was...and this went on for several weeks.

It is easy imagine someone who has been training very hard with another program would see something like Angie, Murph, or Chuck Norris' Filthy Fifty and believe that the light weights/high-reps equal an easy work out. Count me as one of those who 'learned' very quickly that many CF workouts camo themselves like a rattle snake in the grass.

Ben - does Matt still workout? If so, does he follow the same type of program that he outlined for Princeton's athletes?

Perhaps we should invite Mr. B to join us for a few WOD's?

Nah.

Hi all,
Workout
Run 2.3 miles Duration 18:10. {PP 50 kilosx15 and and Pull-upx20}x3. Duration 5:00.
Rest...

Corey (#88)

Had the same thing happen around the eye. Attributed it to the inverted position and straining to squeeze out one more rep before I fell on my head. Cleared up over night.

I am not going to comment on the article. All of you have already done a great job tearing it up, but, the homepage on his website sure is purty.

As far as I could gather, the article had nothing to do with the War in Iraq, global warming, reasons to nuke Iran, or the overall trustworthiness of elected officials. I'm confused.

I'm also confused as to the statement in the article regarding the similarity of the movement in wallball and KB swings. I see no similarity except both tend to fry me like an egg on a Texas sidewalk in August. But then again, I like similes.

Off to do 1 set of Nautilus pull overs to failure and avoid rhabdo.

Maybe I should send Matt my Uncle Rhabdo shirt I got courtesy of Lynne Pitts.

Didn't get a chance to post yesterday, but the workout kick my butt. Rocked a set of 17 pull-ups though, new PR!!!! Keep up the good work everyone, and keep the WOD's comin!!!

I hope Matt didn't have to miss a day of his chest/shoulders/tri's - legs - back/biceps split writing this article. Maybe he wrote it on his forearms/abs day because that workout only takes an hour instead of two hours ...

If he really wants to seek the truth he'll try the WOD's for a couple of months and then write another article on his experience.

Ben, thanks for adding your valuable inside perspective. Carly warned me about this article coming several months ago and I was going to warn HQ about it, but she didn't want to be involved in any controversy. This new wrestling coach is a great opportunity for you to influence the S&C policy. It's hilarious that the old wrestling coach who ran a marathon thinks overhead squats are "dangerous." I hope your wrestling season went well this year and I will probably make it up to Princeton and workout out with you again this fall. Peace.

Its ok...Some people just have to critisize. Its funny, when my wife first started working out 1 1/2 years ago, she sought advice from a personal trainer (for some reason, she never listens to me) who told her to do all this new stuff. 2 weeks later she could barely walk because she had shin splints so bad. You know what the point of this story is? She didn't educate herself enough and went out and got herself injured listening to someone who wasnt qualified to teach her, not doing enough on her own. She never blamed that person, only herself. Now she is a crossfitter and absolutely loves it. And both of us know that when are bodies tell us too slow down,or God forbid, stop we do it.

So dont get all upset about this guy. He obviously has a product he is trying to market and putting down crossfit is part of his marketing scheme. Part of a free market society correct? Hey look at what good the article has done, its got the conservatives and the few of us who are liberal around herefinally agreeing to something!!!!

I googled some of Matt B's works and came across a review of his wrestling strength book...

"Critics of HIT say it only works on novice athletes whereas elite performers need multiple sets/ballistic exercises. They believe that the zealous balls-to-the-wall intensity of HIT is overkill and actually drives your gains into the wall. Critics of Brzycki also seem to imply that Princeton University is to wrestling what Victoria Beckham is to singing. There's also been speculation that many of Princeton's best wrestlers don't train using Brzyski's methods at all."

the full article is here http://sfuk.tripod.com/reviews/wrestling_strength1.html

I've been following Matt B's career for some time now.

Let's skip over the part where he didn't even READ the Crossfit website. His description of what is Crossfit is laughable, so let's leave it at that.

The thing about Matt B. is that during his own athlete career he DID NOT FOLLOW THE ADVICE HE NOW ESPOUSES. He was a high rep pushup champion (something like that) and a high volume powerlifter. It was only after his athletic career ended that he became a HIT proponent. And he has been SLAMMED by more than one Princeton wrestler for the damage he has done to their careers. He is a far better typist than a strength coach. He has far more books published than the number of top-notch athletes he has developed.

Even if he wanted to, Matt B. is unqualified to teach most of the Crossfit activities. As a HIT and anti-quick movement Jedi, he is FORCED to establish an anti-Crossfit stance. He has no other choice.

Russ--
Actually, it's Coach New who was fired, and Bonfiglio (who is a genuinely good guy, and freaky strong in spite of his training) who runs marathons.

I've never seen Brzycki work out himself, but he was teaching a "weight training for beginners class" on wednesday mornings for a while, which happened to be my ME deadlift day. Isolation exercises, light DB work, 3 sets of 8-12 for everything. Meanwhile, I have streams of blood running down my left shin from the bar, and his trainees are looking at me like I've just charged out of the Paleolithic with a hunk of mastodon meat in my teeth.

Other anecdotes: I have requested the acquisition of various items, from a glute-ham raise to a set of bumper plates, and his response has always been that such equipment will encourage people to perform aforementioned "dangerous exercises."

Also, he staged a february "fitness frenzy," a multi-event test of "across-the-board fitness." Events were:
bike 6 miles (stationary bike)
run 3 miles (treadmill)
sit-and-reach flexibility test
monkey hang for time
and the final...bench press bodyweight for reps.

I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth now.

Probably bad timing to bring this up today, but I need to ask anyway.

Been doing CF for about 2 mos. now--and I think it's fantastic regardless of what so-call expert Matt B think-- and I'm having so pain in my left elbow/upper forearm area. Not soreness, pain.

Granted I have done more pull-ups in the past 2 mos. than in the last 10 years of my life, so it's not out of the realm of the believable that I'm experiencing this-- Looking for advice...planning on skipping pull-ups for a couple of weeks. Should I leave off all pulling movements? What should I throw in as a decent substitute? Would appreciate any insight from seasoned veterans/trainers. Thanks

I'm not a cop, not a marine or a green beret etc. I'm an extemely competitive guy that gets up each morning and try's to live life to the fullest. I'm actually a tennis player-no glory in that. I sit on my butt the rest of the day as a financial advisor. So what has crossfit done for me? I started about two months ago and I am by far in the best shape of my life. This includes my college tennis career. I had severe shoulder pain when I started playing tennis regularly again after a long layoff. I would only be able to play once a week due to the pain. After two months on crossfit-I now have no pain in my arm or shoulder and I am playing tennis two to three times a week and doing crossfit as recommended. Kind of destroys the overuse argument in the article. If anyone has overused his shoulder it's me, and crossfit has done nothing but make it stronger so I now can do more of the stuff I love to do. Just my two cents.

i've been active and weight training regularly for almost 10 years - i started crossfit a few months ago. today i front squatted 275. i'd never even back squatted more than 255. my wife, a former competitive swimmer, did 150 real push-ups yesterday (in broken sets) last month she needed to do them on her knees.
let the haters hate.
:)

Nick,

I strained the same area (elbow/upper forearm) several years ago, waaay before starting CF, and it still bothers me if I try to do palm-facing-in pullups.

Doesn't bother me at all if I do palm-facing-out chin-ups, so I would definitely try that if you haven't already. Also, it flares up during power cleans, but better warm-up helps there.

BTW, it feels a whole lot better since I started CF'ing a couple months ago.

My 2 cents on the Matt B article is that we're obviously all somewhat biased in our opinions, since we all love Crossfit and the results we get, as well as the intensity of the workout.

That being said, I dont have any statistics, but I think empirical evidence (# of CF posters asking about joint pain, etc), points to maybe a 3%-4% injury rate, not all of which can be attributed to CF activities. I can't believe any high intensity training program is going to result in lower injury rates than that. A prior post about the number of long distance runners with shin splints, stress fractures and knee ailments is spot on - much higher than the number of CF'ers I hear asking about injuries.

Lots of posts for a rest day. :) You can be sure that Matt B. will be reading these posts and grinning that we're a bunch of cult nuts for defending CF and Coach. But, we defend it because it works and because we're responsible adults who don't need to be coddled by some over protective and under skilled trainers.

Several folks above mentioned the dark reality of what we may face: some cry-baby fool will get hurt doing CF (without using a brain cell) and will file suit. Then all these fitness experts will come out of the woodwork to malign CF ... afterall, they have something to lose. We don't need personal trainers at $50/hour and can do these workouts in a garage not a $100/month gym.

Be wary folks. The weak minded who are never responsibile for themselves and who always blame someone else are out there.

I love this workout program and this community. Defend it!

Thanks #'s 32 and 73. The CF community comes through in the clutch yet again!

Tried that fixed gear thingy with my cycle home tonight. HO...LEE...KER...APP... that was an eye opener, having trouble walking right now! LOL

10km in 40 mins

Did last Sundays wod. 7 Deadlifts and 10 dips.

Only went for completion

sets 1-4 weight 245 deadlift and 45 lbs dip

set5 225lbs deadlift and 35lbs dip

Article ignores all Coach's preaching about scalibility. Idea that CrossFit is something new is ludicrious. Coach has refined elements of exercise systems going back to the Greek depictions of athletes using hand weights on ancient jars. Drill Sgt. Cavazos had us doing most of these drills (non O lifting and sans rings) in July, 1973 at Ft. Polk, LA.

It was rest day, but....
2/3 cfwu (- pulls)
Front Squat - 3 x 3
warmed up with 60kg x 5
then, 90kg x 3, 100 x 3, 110 x 3
Deadlifts
Warmed up with 100kg x 3
then 1-1-1-1
120, 140, 160(pr), 170(pr) by a lot and had a lot left in the tank, but was saving up for ...
Cleans, 3-3-2-1-1-1
warmed up with 60kg x 3
60 x 3, 70 x 2, 85 x 1, 95 x 1, 105(pr) x 1
YEAHHHHHHHH!!!!! I cleaned 100kg, Baby!!

when I read Matt Brycki's article, my first thought was:
"if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch"

when I read Comment #22 by Dave, my first thought was:
"no s%#t, Sherlock!"

I'm sure 99% of people on this message board have worked out the STANDARD way he apparently advocates, tell us something new...if you found his program to be so "viable," go back to it

we're all here because we know exactly how viable his way is, and we prefer our way

Dave #22 --

As you should be aware. Crossfit is about being balanced and maximally fit in every area of fitness -- not just strength.

Matt Brzycki's article is ignorant and indefensible.

Following up on #7

JBell, I made a similar set for Sunday's ring dips. Unfortunately, I used clothesline instead of webbing material and now have huge rope burns and bruises on each arm. Live and learn.

Corey #88

Blood vessels bursting MAY be benign in the eye; but I would take it seriously. Because if they burst in the eye they can burst in the head.

Problem -- you obviously don't spend very much time upside down. That is o.k. because you can change that behavior.

Solution -- SPend time upside down every day. Every day for 1, 2 minutes -- increase time as you can -- do a handstand or lay on a chair in an inverted fashion with you head hanging down.

Spend some time being upside down every day to get your body used to it. Then start doing HSPU's again.

It doesn't sound like this Matt whatever guy has ever done any of the crossfit workouts. Too bad. If he tried one week of crossfitting, he'd be on the road to the best shape of his life and actually have an idea what he is talking about. Ignorant and uninformed should always shut the hell up.

Has this guy even attempted a Crossfit workout?

By the sounds of his article it does not seem like he has. This guy should try crossfit before he starts preaching about it.

Forget the article, how about that picture? Hello nurse!

Done The St George's Day WOD from Brand X today;

3 rounds for time of;
500m row
21 ring dips
21 thrusters (used 20kg dbells)
21 l pullups

Time 33:09

mikey t (#53) try http://beastskill.com, a few tutorials on handstands etc.

mikey t (#53) try http://beastskill.com a few tutorials on handstands etc.

sorry, first link had a comma in it

I still got it wrong, it's http://beastskills.com

$3000 on Walt Disney World Resort
$1600 on airfare
$1000 on food and fun

Returning to a 315 squat workout after 11 days vacation: PRICELESS.

Did it two days ago, and still sore.

When I Goggled Mat. I found that he has been involved in strength training for several years. Since he is writing for a LEO site, I have failed to find where he served as a Law Enforcement officer.

Mat. Said, ”The purpose of physical training is to prepare your muscles, bones and connective tissues for the demands of physical activity.”

Yes, if you train to be in better than average shape.

No, if you train for Life. Life is not fair. War is not fair. Criminals are not fair. Mat., your Kool-Aid mix has gotten weak. Pour yourself another glass of reality.

As someone who has 16 years exp. as a local street cop, SWATer, and now Fan Belt Inspector I can tell you life certainly is not fair. Crossfit WODs are the closest thing I have found to replicate the stresses of getting shot at, fighting, and doing the things no one else wants to do.

I would rather visit Pukie the clone doing a WOD than when its me against a raptor in the middle of the night and I give out of gas!!

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=15285

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=17016

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=16945

Keep it coming Coach!!!

Regarding te article, I'm 44 and worked out consistently and traditionally for 20 yrs. I began teasing myself with some of the CF workouts or parts of them about 15 mo. ago finally I was addicted! For the lasst 6mo I,ve been doing them faithfully. I am amazed at the growth I've seen. Both in strength and size. I am cautious to study the videos before trying new lifts and I error on the side of light weight when in doubt. Dispite this, my pr's in Olifts continue to be broken. I'm eating more consistent with the Zone. Way more protein than ever before. My weight has gone from180 to196 in one yr and my bf from 15 to20%. The intensity of the workouts seems to almost make it hard to drop my bf%. Or it's just my imagination. Never looked forward to my wo like I do now.
Thanks Coach for everything

Did yesteray's WOD today - 18:58.

Used to be a reasonably serious runner, and would have never tried this before - Did the WOD barefoot. Granted, it was only a total of 1600 meters, but wow does it feel great. I'm sure when I get up tomorrow I'll discover some new muscles in my lower legs, but my ankles and knees do not have any of the normal post-run soreness.

Very cool. Thanks to all who posted solid info on barfoot running in the forums.

Karl,
You weren't wearing your shirt were you?
Naughty boy.

Is it normal to get a large bruise on my upper chest from doing cleans or am I using bad technique? Thanks.

I love the irony in the Polar Bear plunge picture on the NJC website and the review of Cross Fit.

No worries. Judging from the pics, they're gonna lose a heck of a more cops to obesity issues than rhabdo.

I like the ring sub in the photo.

This is about the fact that Crossfit is threatening to the livelihood of trainers. Period.
Yes, if coming from the standpoint of working with the post sedentary population all of Matt's points have a certain validity........
But I know of his work well and he knows very well the extraordinary value of XFit as well as the risks involved but decided to paint the glass half-empty and portray Crossfit as he did.
If he (and many other 'spokespeople' in the industry) fully endorsed it, they might as well close up shop.

#139
ROb F.
Where did you find all the info on barefoot running. I can't seem to find my way around the message boards.

That guy Byrczki or something... well, he's a poon.
HOOAH!!

"In short, you wouldn't prepare for a dangerous line of work by performing a dangerous type of training."

Somebody should let ol' Matt Brzycki in on a little secret...TRAIN LIKE YOU FIGHT, FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN!

"Health and Wellness"
sounds like he's teaching Yoga

Livestrong!

Our SWAT Team sent over a couple of guys to Operational Tactics for a SWAT Fitness Course. Consensus...It was a joke. But it was the only thing out there that our Administrators thought would be beneficial to our team.

He has obviously formulated an opinion about CrossFit from the comfort of his desk chair while looking at his computer screen.

As an operator, I have found no better program for Elite Fitness than CrossFit!

Matt Brzycki...enjoy your "Recreational Fitness," I'll stick with the Elite Fitness program thank you!

Coach and staff...You rock!!

I applaud the coach's open mindedness to post an article critical of CrossFit.

Edward Demings, the Quality guru, use to say if you satisfy your most finicky customers you'll satify everyone else.

The author of the article would have been more convincing had he postulated exactly what he believed a safe CrossFit work out might consist of. Nevertheless, both this and the NY Times Dec 2005(?) article stressed the potential for injury. It would seem prudent for CrossFit to put more emphasis on safety, scaling back, ramping up over months or a year to get to full speed, etc. For example, with each WOD a warning might be posted urging people with less than 4 months exerience to read an essay posted on the web site about scaling back and ramping up.

Along with posting times or repititions for each WOD each participant might also post any injury or LACK OF INJURY, he/she had as a result of the WOD. Crossfit might take this info to determine what the mean rate of injury is for WOD's; if there are any WODs that are more prone to injury and hence to be untaken by fully experienced peole, or particularly safe WODs where new people might be more aggressive in attempting the full weights or repititions.

All work outs have risk associated with them. People who do alot of aerobics will get rhabdo, and weight lifters get over use injuries. What isn't known, for example, is the rate of rhabdo in others forms of exercise? The inference by the article is that rhambo is something that only occurs with crossfit, not true.

With relatively little effort CrossFit can take this safety concern and blow it out of the water, providing actual risk data and not anecdotal stories, which in a scientic sense are almost meaningless both pro and con.

Mike #145,

Try doing a key word search on barefoot running. I've found that the search function is the way to go if you are looking for specific information. There is so much content on the boards, it can be tough to find information on a specific topic by browsing.

Cheers,
Rob

"Matt Brzycki is the Coordinator of Recreational Fitness and Wellness Programs at Princeton University (NJ). He has worked at the collegiate level for 18½ years as a coach, administrator and instructor. Since August 1990, Matt has had a variety of roles at Princeton University including Coordinator of Health Fitness, Strength and Conditioning Programs and Strength Coach/Health Fitness Coordinator. Previously, he was the Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach at Rutgers University (NJ).
From August 1975 - August 1979, Matt served in the U. S. Marine Corps. While stationed at what was then called Marine Corps Base 29 Palms (CA), he won the 165-pound class at the 1976 Base Powerlifting Championships and the 155-pound class at the 1978 Base Bench Press Championships. Matt was also an avid fitness enthusiast, competing in various contests of muscular endurance. In 1976, he did 1,005 consecutive sit-ups (not crunches) in 38 minutes and was a member of his unit’s cross-country team that was second on the base; in 1979, he did 468 consecutive sit-ups in 15 minutes and 201 consecutive push-ups.
Matt received his Bachelor of Science degree at Penn State in May 1983. While there, he represented the school in the Pennsylvania State Collegiate Powerlifting Championships (1980-82) and placed third in his first bodybuilding competition (1981)" (http://www.naturalstrength.com/features/detail.asp?AuthorID=169).

Mr. Brzycki has made the mistake of forgetting where he came from.

"CrossFit: Helping you put the enemy your Cross Hairs"

I have the author's book, "Swat Fitness". Its actually not a bad read. Where he differs from Crossfit is that he believes squats are dangerous (leg presses are encouraged instead) and that the body does not know the difference between machines and free weights -- as resistance is resistance. Variation in routine is encouraged by switching out a few exercises or doing your routine backwards. He advocates one set per exercise, generally on machines, to achieve strength and avoid injury. He is an accomplished trainer and has an alternative (i.e non Crossfit) method to fitness that works for him. FWIW, I follow my own combination of 5X5 trainig, olympic lifting and crossfit that works for me.

I'm positive I have an article somewhere on 'weight circuit training' for conditioning powerlifter's by Brzynski... and it used powerlifting and Oly movements!
I'll find it and post....who knows maybe he killed an athlete using it.
Most trainers find the post sedentary pop. is by far the largest paying client base out there.
Trainer certification programs are ALL about that population with liability and injury prevention being THE determining factor for exercise prescription.
Crossfit is just a recipe for disaster to them.

As a Marine I am repulsed by the author's severe departure from his USMC roots and the height from which he has fallen.

"And you wouldn't prepare for a gunfight by getting shot at with real bullets. In short, you wouldn't prepare for a dangerous line of work by performing a dangerous type of training."

Tell that statement to the thousands of Marines, pilots and soldiers doing pre-deployment training as we read this. Tell that statement to the many Marines, soldiers and pilots that die every year due to intense training that is performed at 110%, week in and week out, which is done so to simulate equal, if not more, intense situations than that which we will see in combat. No, Mr. Brzycki, you are wrong. The only way to truly be prepared for a dangerous situation is to train close to, if not in equally (or exceedingly) dangerous situations than that which will be experienced in real combat.

In addition, physical training is not limited to "prepare your muscles, bones and connective tissues for the demands of physical activity... the idea is to strengthen those structures so that they're more resilient to injury." No, physical training is much more than that. Mr. Brzycki forgets to mention the mental aspects of intense training, such that Crossfit encompasses, which deal primarily with destroying and exceeding mental barriers that are more often than not the true encumbrances of physical improvement. Training at an intensity that does not evoke such intensity, especially in our line of work, is very unwise, if not downright deadly.

Go back to the books and the pencils, Mr. Brzycki, and leave the real life combat training and the art of survival to those of this community who faithfully live out how they train.

(Don't refer the author to Tony Blauer's SPEAR training system.)

Though I respect this man's service to the nation, he should realize that we can make our own decisions on what fitness programs we use. The people that use this site, for what I can tell, are athletes. Not the type that takes steriods to make more money, or too break some record. We are not professional athletes, but people who want a kick ass workout and the occasional appearance of Pukie the clown. We are not in it for the money but for the love of it. Put simply, we enjoy the hard work, sweat, and endorphin rush you get from a good workout. This guy needs to take a step out of Princeton NJ and a step into the real world. If I didn't trust my self enough to stick to strick form, or to realize that I was having an injury, I certainly wouldn't trust my self to carry a deadly weapon and make the right choice to protect others lives in the face of danger. Fact of the matter is he sees Crossfit as a threat to his business and rightfully so. If it was up to me, every cop in the nation would be up to Crossfit standard. Or atleast, working on it. This guy can kiss my hard crossfit made ass!

Corey (#88), Mark(#95). and Kegger(#106):

You all experienced a sub-conjunctival hemorrhage, in effect a bruise under the clear "skin" of the eye caused by inversion and an increase in the pressure in your chest cavity (valsalva). Inversion, like when we do HSPU's, coupled with significant exertion, is a rather common cause. The most common situation that causes this is actually childbirth (Gayle, any stories about DJ's birthday?!). As long as you can see the "bleeding" in the mirror you're OK. Hope this helps.

Darrell

If you need "instruction" in order not to hospitalize yourself with exercise, I truly wonder about you.

A little common sense goes along way, and CF is no exception. This author seems to think that unless he tells us not to, we will all start doing Fran and not stop until we die or reach the hospital. I think most of the folks out there are a little smarter than this. This is why MOST of the folks I work with in LE would probably be killed in a life or death situation, although they have great calves and biceps from strick adherance to body part training workouts. Sad.

It's nice to see everyone getting along on a rest day!

Hey, everybody thinks this guy is pathetic, look at the Army bsic training, pushups on knees. This guy is being heard in a big way. Everyone I work with does CF, we live in a result oriented business, the article is for untrained people period.

I just wanted to say I've been cross-fitting (just getting started really), and am neither an athlete nor anywhere near good shape. I just got sick and tired of making myself go to the gym five days a week, and bored to tears on the cardio machines. A friend recommended the site to me (and she looks great!!) and told me to modify the excercises to a level I could handle.

Basically I just cut the WOD in half, use the Gravitron for my pullups, use all the substitutes listed and since I'm not comfortable with free weights yet, I try to find machines that use similar primary muscle groups. It ain't perfect, but I'm just starting. I don't see how crossfit could be any more dangerous than going to the gym and using free weights or machines that I don't feel comfortable with.

In addition, a doctor I know told me that anthropological records showed that humans didn't get arthritis until their work became specialized. He said using the same machine or doing the same excercise more than two days in a row is a bad idea. We all know this about weights, but a lot of people don't pay attention to it for cardio. Crossfit does...

"Operational Tactics, Inc. Applications & Development Program in
Physical Fitness for the SWAT Athlete
Course Length: 2 days
Course Description: Physical fitness is an integral part of all tactical operations. The SWAT Team Physical Fitness Specialist Certification Program will provide SWAT officers and supervisors with guidelines for the establishment of contemporary physical fitness standards and practical training concepts. A strong emphasis will be placed on reducing injures through proper physical training and nutrition, department liability concerns, muscular function, exercise physiology, developing training programs for the SWAT athlete, and creating a balance between strength and aerobic conditioning in order to achieve maximum results."

Hurry there’s still room in their May 4th and 5th SWAT Fitness Specialist class! Um, their April class apparently didn’t sell out either. Unlike the CrossFit May Certification which has been sold out for some time; or the last few CF seminars that have all sold out.

So you choose: Brzycki’s program, or CrossFit?

What a self-serving-office-pogue. The sad problem is that some equally ignorant/frightened police or fire administrator might believe the BS in his poorly written article.

Hopefully, while the self-promoting losers continue to pitch their transparent sales propaganda disguised as articles, our brother cops/firefighters/operators who really do the work will increasingly get into CrossFit.

Thank you Coach and Lauren.

Steve Serrano

Well done Steve.

Darrell/Bingo- Do I know you?

Darrell (#158),

That was it. Thanks.

Did this WOD
400M
30 pull ups
21 D-Ball
800M
21 D-Ball
30 pull ups
400M

13:07

I apologize up front for this belated reply.

In fitness, people tend to cling to the old ways. I am sure there are those who still do three full body workouts a week for three sets of 10 reps on each exercise and then have their gains remain stagnant for years. Currently, if you go to any of the strength training sites and mention Westside training methods (part of elite fitness), you will be cursed by many members of the power lifting community believing that Westside is a bunch of BS.
However, it seems that students of the Westside training methods have been winning many world championships in power lifting. It seems that if a strength/fitness program requires hard work but produces measurable results, it is doomed to be criticized by self-proclaimed experts.

Bottom line is this coach, because you are thinking outside the box, you have developed an amazing fitness system that currently has no equal. Thanks for your all your research and dedication. Don’t take any of the criticism to hard.

When you are successful, you will make false friends and true enemies. Be successful anyways.

I felt awful last night, but I pushed myself to do the following:
x 3
10 squats
10 push-ups
20 lunges
10 abs

I read about the army basic training doing push-ups on knees?? That is what the girl's did in my high school.
Afterwards they get to have a sensitivity session to go over their feelings about push-ups?

Even the one armed man, in my HS pe class, had to do real push-ups.

I didn't read everyone else's remarks yet, I wanted to get my gut reaction down first, then I will read everyone.

Reaction/Thoughts:
This author is stuck 'in the box'. He is unable to think outside the box. "The Bottom Line" is I think he is afraid of Crossfit.
Brzycki said, "you wouldn't prepare for a gunfight by getting shot at with real bullets."
If you did, you might just have composure, and an experience that could save your life in a real gunfight.
About Pukie, Way before I heard of Crossfit, when I was doing normal bodybuilding gym routines, I was close to puking on leg days. I remember reading articles in the bodybuilding mag's about puking during workouts. I know a competitive swimmer who puked during a practice a couple of months ago. Pushing the body to the limit is nothing new.

Screw him. Listening to weak little whiners like him makes me remember why we do Crossfit. We don't want to be like the "average" American. We don't want to make excuses. We want to get sh.. done. Bring it on Crosfit. I promise I won't tell my mommy on you.

Crossfit:
Those who know it, Love it
Those who don't, Fear it
Those too stupid to know their own personal limits, Pay for it.

WOD as Rx
Deek
13:19

LeeMP
11:37

take that ODU
;)

I am 58 and started CrossFit and KB training this year. Gave up all the standard cardio stuff to focus on getting into shape. Hey! I use common sense. I will tailor the drill to what I perceive to be my limitations and then go for it. I do "Murph" but no way can I do 100 pullups. I can, however, do a combination of pull up sets combined with lat pulldowns or a gravitron broken down into sets of 10. As for KBs, you have to pay attention to form!!! You drive a car dangerously or safely. You can drink sensibly or to excess. You can hurt yourself running, eating, or getting out of the shower. Know your limits, test your limits, and improve from there. But, if you never test your personal limits you will never progress! CrossFit does that and it get results!
If one bothers to read what CF offers and actually says about the exercises it is very clear that the WODs are "scaleable" to your fitness level. I think that is the word used. CF also stresses form!!!
The real danger lies in getting absorbed into our over consumptive culture and turning into a GFP (generic fat person). Lazy, out of shape, unable to do much except eat, sleep and reproduce.
I'll take the pain of CF!!

I have read this exact article many times now. Preparation is the key to these workouts, you cant be expected to go from 0 to 100 all at once slowly upping the workout intensity is key to successful accomplishment of these workouts. I have done bodybuilding style workouts with incredible intensity for years and they dont come anywhere close in comparison with these workouts for application as a fireman. Crossfit is number one in my books and to hear someone with these comments obviously doesnt understand the basic principles of working out as far as im concerned. I am 100% pro crossfit.

To Nick #115:

It sounds like you might have Epicondylitis. It is a tendon injury located where the tendon attaches near the elbow. If your grip is diminished and you have pain picking anything over 5 or so pounds, this could be the problem. It is usually a repetitive injury (called "tennis elbow") but can also be caused by intense contraction of the forearm muscles in a single event.

Have a doctor look at it.

To Matt Brzycki,

It's genetics. Sorry. Some people are just geneticly weaker than others.