Okay, time to go do my Tuesday workout. 8pm and I still have to get it out.

That 320lbs lift is awesome.

yippee!

Why don't you guys stop ragging on liberals and formulate your own policy alternatives?

If you stop to think about it, most progressives/liberals/lefties actually have a very solid and absolute set of beliefs: slavery bad, sexism bad, racism bad, child labor bad, murder bad, torture bad. People who commit any of those crimes are bad.

Liberals also generally believe: tolerance good, multiculturalism good. Islamofascists do not.

Anyone who tries to limit tolerance and multiculturalism is bad. If they respond to tolerance and multiculturalism by preaching violence, or otherwise physically force their intolerant attitudes on others (with fatwas and scare tactics on cartoonists and novelists, for example) then they're really bad.

So those are my absolutes.

What are these much-ballyhooed conservative moral absolutes that liberals somehow lack anyway? I've never figured that out.

Sure, let's buy for the moment that it was the all-powerful "liberals" who were too trusting in trying to get the Muslims to assimilate and to show tolerance, or too slow in confronting and persecuting such crimes as not sending their daughters to school. I really don't see this as any radical shattering of liberal beliefs. If anything it's a reminder to liberals that they have to stand up and enforce their beliefs more forcefully, expecially in the face of religious zaelots who want to do away with them.

Big difference.

And I really don't see any 'conservative' alternatives, unless you move over into the realm of fascism, which I know you aren't suggesting.

I really think you guys have to stop fighting this eternal ideological battle. If the problem of Islam is as serious as I think it is, we can't afford to argue over how many angels dance onthe head of a pin or whether the multiculturalism is "boutique" or "hard" or whether 'social relativism' is the enemy of 'indic=vidualism' or its friend. Or whatever your codewords are. There is more common ground between liberals and conservatives on the issue of Islamofascism than you seem to want to admit. It's as if it it challenges your entire identity to admit that we agree on this. Get over it so we can take on the real enemy.

40,000m bike & 1000m swim today

it's good to be alive

http://danishcartoons.ytmnd.com/

Too late in the day and I'm too mentaly tired for politics. Will read more in AM when have slept more than 2 hours.

I take the writer of this piece to be (a) defending -- not attacking -- the western liberal tradition, and (b) arguing that post-modern multiculturalists are incapable of aiding in that defense. He suggests that moral relativism has emasculated many in the West from issuing any kind of principled moral denunciation of the violence by extremists.

This seems sensible. If you believe all social paradigms are equally valid, then it's pretty hard to condemn those whose paradigm involves killing innocents.

The point that I do not clearly understand is why did these Danish newspaper cartoonists and by extension their editors, feel the need to make this point concerning Free Speech at all. Why were they singleing out such a small minority of their population (5% are Muslims) for this lesson? Is this really about free speech at all or a thinly vieled threat that the Islamic portion of their population better start 'assimilating' and become more Danish and less Islamic. It always makes me a little uneasy when European governments start looking toward minority groups as scapegoats for whatever larger problems they are facing.

When a country intentionally 'ghettoizes' a segment of their population, like the German 'guest workers', who have been 'guests' since after WWII, and then start criticising them for not being integrated into the overall culture, where does the blame truly lie?

Intolerance of the intolerance is intolerant is intolerant and so on. Methinks we're on to something here. Pretzel logic indeed. Rationalism, oh my sweet departed Rationalism, where, oh where have you gone my darling? Come back so we can right this upside down world.

Because they where challenging people to think and reach their own conclusions.

Though sadly people now react instantly with emotion. They don't take in what they heard and think about it and gather other info about the topic. They just react, kind of like 3 year olds in the sand box over who gets the pail.

From what I've read the whole reason that they did the cartoons were because some author was trying to write a childrens book on Mohmmed and he couldn't hire an illustrator because they were self-censoring themselves.

Holy crap...I max at 315 with two hands...now feeling great about myself...maybe I'll go do some pullups and get an even lower self esteem.

Ha! ;) No politics here, too busy reading a new book on the awareness of power and force in human behavior. Woohoo.

As the old saying goes..."Ask yourself..did you React..or Act..." People need to Act more, react less.

First off: Holy cow, that's an impressive lift. Is that really just a vertical bar being gripped hard w/320 lbs on it? I bow down, I can barely DL 320...

Secondly, someone said that Europe "ghetto-ized" it's minority populations... Actually they seem quite eager to NOT assimlate, and viciously beat down any of their own who don't follow "their" values. Read up on the gang rapes and graft that runs rampant in the bain lieu of Paris; it's a 3rd world country within a country...

And if it seems "liberals" are getting the brunt of focus these days, it's because the light is coming on in many peoples heads. They see the train wreck that are the failing idealogies of these liberals. Some of which include

- the victim culture; everyone else is responsible for your problems
- the nanny state; you're incapable of succeeding on your own; you need the govt. to tell what what to do, and help you make it
- Political Correctness. The liberal idea that some thoughts are so fragile that you can't ever question or discuss them. Don't question the breakdown of the family as a factor in the problems of the black community, that's racist! How dare you wonder if we should profile males from the Middle East at airports! That's islamophobic! It's much easier to play the liberal *'ist card than actually argue the merits of the topic at hand.

I find the silence from the "progressives" and other leftist types around the obcenities going on in the islamic world cowardly and craven. It's easy to talk about Bush's police state, the silencing of dissent (don't I wish, shut up Hollywood) when we all know these accusations are a lie. Tim Robbins, Mike Farrell, Cindy Sheehan are perfectly safe saying anything they want in America, and they know it.

But I'm still waiting for some of the Bush bashers to defend free speech (WRT the cartoon incident), or condemn the atrocities going on every day; the antisemitism, sexual repression, xenophobic world view that is islam.. But they don't because they know some nutter will come try to take their head off their shoulders...

So they perform their mental masterbation, and talk about tolerance, and how it's "against human rights" to blaspheme, etc. and quietly watch as something as basic as free speech be silenced...

But I'm sure they'd be screaming freedom of speech if some Christians complained about a piss-Christ art exhibit..

Hypocrisy, thy name is "progressive"

Hey....two birds with one stone...

Instead of posting political views, get together and talk about Hillary and Condi while you are in the middle of Fran!!

Pukie for President!!!

in the immortal words of EN1 J. Lucas- " Shut face & keep pushing!!"

I identify as a conservative. Love free speech; just not the long-winded variety. Lastly, liberalism has nothing constructive to offer our society.

Hey I play rugby here at San Diego State University. I really like the workouts they post here, it's a good suppliment to my rugby workouts. Anyhow, I injured my shoulder about 4 weeks ago going for a tackle and it's been naggin me since. I'm seeing the trainer regularly but does anyone have any suggestions for rehab? thanks

"Want a Crossfit State...Vote Pukie in '08!!!

To David, Comment #17
Having done the same many times, the formula is as follows:
1. RICE: Rest it (See the CrossFit Journal article on recovery). Ice it. Compress it (Ace bandage wrap with ice bag inside). Elevate it (For a shoulder, sitting up will do).
2. Now for the politically incorrect part: Midol for pain. Yes, I know for what it is marketed. None the less, it is one of the best OTC deep muscle pain relievers.
I give the same advice to my son who plays Rugby for Ole Miss. (I left off the part about not partying so much and not spending so much money.)

Regarding the article: "By their fruit you will know them." and Legos are Danish!?

David, I'm really curious for you to get an answer here as well. I'm an idiot, but I fell down some stairs a few months ago and I think I might have done some damage to my right shoulder when I grabbed the hand rail behind me to stop the fall. I haven't been able to do a proper push up or bench for quite some time now. I was afraid to do the WODs because of it, but so far working it out has been helping. I'm going to keep pushing through it until I can get in to see a real doctor. Being TDY is really limiting my options for decent treatment at the moment. If there is anything that can be done in the meantime, I would really like to know. Would vitimins help at all, stretching, anything?

Well Anthony Walt's method of RICE (rest, ice, compression, elevation) is a good option. By the way thanks for responding Walt and tell your son good luck this season. Also the trainer here has me stretch really really thoroughly before I do any work outs. She has me do a bunch but here's a couple standard ones. Grab a door frame with your right arm fully extended out to your side. Slowly twist your body away from the extended arm that's grabbing the door frame. In this case, twist to your left. Hold it when you feel the stretch. Another one is to lay on your back and lay your arms out to each side such that they are at a 90 degree angle with your palms facing up. Then just rotate them so they are a 90 degree angle with your palms to the floor. you should feel a good stretch.

Here's an interesting article with a common thread to our "Rest Day" mental workout

Former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm's speech,
"I HAVE A PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp

o man. I just got my pukie the clown t-shirt in the mail and I wanted to go to the UVM gym and really make everyone think I am crazy. I bet tomorrow will be a good one, ill scare em then.

Off the subject a bit, but has anyone seen that show "Viking, The Ultimate Obstacle Course/Run"(I believe that is the name)? It's on ESPN 2 right now. Looks like something right up Jesse Woody and Parkours alley.

David & Anthony- I've had shoulder issues for along time now and found that a couple simple things help immensely. R.I.C.E. is definitely the right idea, but don't ice longer then 15-20min max at a time. A lack of flexibility in the shoulder is a big problem that can easily be fixed w/CrossFit as well. I also found that doing push-ups w/each hand on a volley ball while balancing my feet up on a stool has help strengthen my shoulder and the stabilizing muscles. I credit that w/being the biggest difference maker. That and proper form anyways. Check the message board for other ideas.

Nothing really new in that article. One point of semantics - we ought to be careful about confusing the term "liberals" - a modern (almost) perjorative with the philosophy of liberalism, upon which this country was founded. People seem to be a little loose with their language and when you start talking politics and political philosophy, precision is necessary - unfortunately it seems to be the first victim in the pseudo-intellectual wars.

Want some excellent background on origins of American political philosophy and where cultural relativism got its start? Read Edward Purcell's "The Crisis of Democratic Theory". It was an award winning book on American intellectual history in 1973 when published. Purcell doesn't take sides, merely pointing out the crises in American political philosophy that began when mathematicians proved alternatives to Euclidean geometry were possible (more than one line can be perpendicular to a point and line) - Einstein proved it and theorized Riemann geometry was the most likely make up of the universe - and then two polish logicians (Tarski and Lukasiewicz) proved that there were alternatives to Aristotelian logic. Aristotle reasoned everything was either A or not A (the excluded middle - along with two other theorems). It stood as the essence of deductive logic for over 2000 years. When it fell, it meant that the assumptions underlying all western thought were merely arbitrary assumptions (gulp). We still haven't found a satisfactory way to "prove" that democracy is "better" than, say, an Islamic state based on Sharia (other than through empiricist theory - See, it just "works" better! - or based upon Judeo-Christian traditions - see the problem?)

We are in desperate need of a deductive and inductive defense of democracy - for our own sake and the sake of the clash of ideologies that we're currently in. The one we came up with in the 30's when most of the world's sates were becoming autocracies/totalitarian in one form or another is no longer satisfactory.

Hmmm, Rocky are you sure you aren't describing Superman or some other "Do Good-er/Super Hero"? Sounds to me like in your eyes, the Left is the only ones fighting for "Truth, Justice, and The American way".

But you are right about coming together to fight a common enemy. Especially if that enemy is ignorance.

Oh, yeah, the picture.

Damn, that guy's a STUD! 320 pounds?! And notice he's just picking up the pole that the weight sits on!! Wow. With one hand. Now THAT's a GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip!

Hey about the shoulder, I've torn the ligement on my left shoulder twice, the second time because I didn't take care of it properly the first time. Ya totaly agree with RICE but also instead of weights to warm it up use one of those stretch bands. Oh and after like 10 mins of ice microwave a damp towel till it's really warm and keep that on for 10-15. But if you can get it check out.

I love this photo. This is extremly motivating.

Thank you to the crossfit staff for developing and maintaining such an amazing program. I am thankful to be apart of the crossfit community.

I understand the anger expressed by both the Danish and the Muslim community. Both sides are entitled to express their anger through oppropriate means. Allowing a community the right to voice their oppinion is not liberal or conservative but rather civilized. I would not suggest burning the Quran as civilized nor would I suggest rioting in protest of a political cartoon.

I am a middle school teacher who teaches in a rough school in the Sacramento area. The back and forth non-sense over these cartoons is beyond civilized. I mention my teaching point of view because I am constantly teaching children to hold onto their emotions, use their words and not act out their emotions through physical means. Typically, children who cannot control themselves will have valid reasons for being angry - however give way to rage and impulse. These children - almost always - have parents who model rage and lack of impulse control - examples include cusing at the television, road rage, seeing their dad through things, parents who settle differences by yelling and so on.

I think it is important - no matter political position - to consider one's emotional reaction, exercise patience and emotional stamina before judging the Dane's or the Muslim community. In this situation, (we) our Nation has a unique opportunity to model civility. We should avoid choosing sides and communicate our regret for the anger both sides are expressing.

Marcus,
Excellent points all. Would that more people followed them.
After exercising that restraint, however, there is still an underlying issue to be dealth with - should the US express an opinion (or take a policy position) in support of the govt of Denmark and the idea of free speech or should it condemn the Danish editors/author/cartoonists and (tacitly) support the rioting in the Muslim community (which has now resulted in hundreds of deaths) for our own political benefit in the eyes of Muslims worldwide - an act IMO of pure appeasement worthy of Chamberlain? Maybe the third option would be neither - but that's going to likely be construed as appeasement, given our record, our history, and our country's founding on the idea of free political speech.
Civility in either is important, but the issue remains.

tried Kempie's bodyweight 'Linda' or 'Belinda' as i like to call her...

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 reps of
l-pull ups
ring dips
burpess with press up and o/head clap.

surprising arse-kicker...

time = 11.02(annoyed, getting sub-10 next time)

then 5x5 deadlift

80, 85, 90, 95, 100kg

bw = 70kg

Oh. My. God.

Yawn. F***ing, yawn already. We get it, Coach, you are a balls-to-the-wall right-winger. Can you please, Coach, please keep beating this horse until it's dead? Maybe a few more whacks will do the trick.

I'm sick and tired of these vapid rightwingers telling me what "Liberals" are. They have no f***ing clue, and it's brutally obvious by the echo-chamber tripe they write. I'm a liberal, but i have a much more nuaced view of the world than the conservative "I'm blogging in my pajamas" broad-brush painters do....Certainly, there are some nuts on the left, but if you want batsh*t crazy, well you've got them on the right, as well. Pat Robertson, Anne Coulter, and Michelle Malkin spring immediately to mind...

NEWSFLASH FOR THE RIGHTIES: The Right (your people) has complete control of the government and they are proving the old saw that "Republicans believe that government doesn't work, then they get elected and prove it". They have managed to spend more, expand the government more, and just flat out screw up more in a mere five years than any damn marginalized liberal could ever DREAM of. That you guys keep swinging at this liberal strawman is just a sign of your own blindness.

Fix your own party first for God's sake. Look in the fricken mirror. The Republican party, and its petulant boy prince, George, is an UTTER FAILURE.

I know that you coach, as we all do (no matter what the rightwing broadbrushers say), support the troops. So what, pray tell, do you make of this?

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

Rocky: Right on. These guys are worried about eunuched liberals while the Right is just flailing about like some sort of enormous wounded man-child, destroying up everything it touches. It is desperate the way that the Right tries to create itself an enemy to attack.

The mirror, guys, the mirror. I know that when you look in the mirror, the right seems like the left, but, no, that's you, Rightie! There's big government. There's government malaise and inefficiency. There's not having a clue about realpolitic. The mirror, that's you, Rightie!

I'm not sure where i found this, but this sums up very well how I feel about when some right wing zero talks about, to quote from your article: "Pretzel logic, clearly—and the dilemma that is at the root of an incoherent philosophical system"

HA!

Oh how very lofty of him. Let's talk "incoherent philosophical systems", shall we?

"Those opposed to this ruinous war — which has simultaneously killed thousands of Americans, drained national resources, bogged us down in the middle of a wildly unfriendly part of the Earth, brought about an American torture policy, caused a meltdown of the checks and balances of the U.S. government AND empowered Iran all at the expense of our national security and international standing — can say that EVERY SINGLE thing we worried would happen has come true.

"Now, you can disagree, but literally everything you pro-war types have alleged would come to fruition as a result of war hasn't panned out. Not only that, but after the fake hue and cry of your purple finger waving spectacle, you've shown your true colors by almost instantly turning on the Iraqi people by writing that a civil war, while tragic, could be the saving grace of American policy? Holy sh*t, that's some mindbreaking 'logic'. I'm in awe of the conservative's ability to retrofit outcomes into new theories whenever reality inevitably makes it necessary."

AMEN. Republicans and logic do not mix. Hell, they are for Intelligent Design, for Christ's sake. Not to mentioned their enlightened policies on gays, global warming, and stem cell research just to name a few.

"The poll...showed that 29% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately,” while another 22% said they should leave in the next six months. Another 21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months, while 23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed."

I posted a couple days ago but I'm going to do this again.

I live in the Harrisburg PA area and I have a place where any of those who participate here can have a facility to get together.

Please email me if you are interested.

John

One last thing.

I know that all the righties who get their news from primarily right wing sources have a very skewed view of what an average liberal believes. I understand. I have listened to these same radio and TV programs and know that you'd think that Liberals all roll out of bed and hug a tree every morning, or, perhaps, a terrorist. Not so.

As a Liberal, I abhor extreme Islam. Heck, I don't like Islam at all. I don't want to hug radical Islamists. Actually, i hate them. They stand for everything i disagree with. I also hate radical Christians. They're all a bunch of idiots, and they are all a shame on the humanistic and rational tradition. They all want to bring us back to more ignorant times. Hope that they never suceed.

There. We can all agree on that can't we? All we differ over is tactics. And i assure you, on neither side are hugs involved.

I am going to bed and will abuse this thread no more.

Crossfit?
XXOXOXOXOXOXOX
I love you. Please stop being so right wing...

Perhaps I'll pray...Nah.

Goodnight all.

Hello everyone!
I am new to this chart and the crossfit in general. Looking for the way to increase pul-up endurance - how do you do it like 25-35 times in a raw? Could you suggest any training program or strategy? Thank you very much in advance.

Can you guys just stick with the workouts and leave the political/ideological BS off this website?

[Moderator note: This person's IP has been banned for posting as Sean G another site member.]

Thanks David, Walt, and Nick. I really appreciate the input. This has been bothering me for quite some time now and I have just been pushing through it hoping it would go away. Honestly, I'm 30 years old and have never one time in my life been hurt before. Luck has been good to me. Anyway, other then heading to the doc, which isn't really in my interest right now, I didn't now how to help this out. I'll copy off what you guys have said and keep working it out. If it doesn't get better, I will crack and hit the stupid hospital.

Lauren.
You are neither (a) forced to come here to this site, (b) compelled to read what is posted, (c) under duress to click on the comments section (especially on days when no workout is posted). So, why, WHY the hell do you come to a free web site that has almost ALWAYS, from its inception, posted such matters and complain about how it is designed? Tristram, you too.

Both of you, I've got an idea - if it so painful to you . . . don't come.
I'm not bothered by reasonably intelligent disagreement over what's posted - heck, I can even get over the not-so-intelligent rants that are generally an attempt to get out some political point that's an aside from what's posted... that's just a sign of a lack of tight thinking.
But for God's sake, quit coming into someone else's house and telling them to change their furniture around or "get new blinds, those are hideous". It's just g*ddamn rude. It doesn't add anything. It's a whine.

Coach has his own view about what this site should be. He ain't gonna change it 'cuz you sniveled about it. I don't always agree with the articles. Nor do I sometimes feel like seeing all the rants. Sometimes I don't have time. On those days, I just post my time and move on. Maybe I scan for a general sense of what's up. But what I don't do is force myself to read everything and then complain about it.

And as a final point, I try, as a member of this community, to add something through my hard work and thoughts. I consider it part of my payment for Coach's magnanimity in providing this FREE SITE. Why is that the people who complain the loudest about politics are never the ones posting workout times? Damn, that torques me. There ought to be a sweat equity payment for complaining.
OUT

I like a bunch of bands that are super-duper left wing. Though I don't agree with all of the politics they espouse (I'm pretty much a left-leaning moderate, across the board), I still like the music that they make. It puzzles me why so many people on this site are incapable or unwilling to accept that they will probably always disagree with the prevailing political beliefs of the site's owners and simply absorb the information they want, leaving the rest where it is. You’re not always going to agree with somebody, this doesn’t mean you have to assassinate them with exclamation points.

I never thought I’d find myself trying to be a voice of reason on a website. I’ve never considered myself a Republican but I’m frequently horrified by the excited, some would say confrontational, rants posted by my fellow(?) liberals here. I can’t help but read narcissism in the frequent scathing and venomous anti-conservative opinions displayed here. That self-righteousness is supposed to be their thing, right? Now I’m not so sure.

Most people who ate at the family table (or some family's table on a holiday, or something) are familiar with the concept of having to eat the entire main course prior to getting dessert. CF is a much sweeter deal, you don't have to click on any link you don't want to and you can still do the workouts, free of charge. Political debate is fine and good but the emotions of the adverse party here are really elevated. Coach is harsh but, in all fairness, he doesn’t start it. He just posts a link. It reminds me of Jon Stewart being questioned on Crossfire regarding his interview tactics and him having to constantly remind the two idiots questioning him that he was the host of a comedy show, not a debate show on a major news network.

This site is a fitness website maintained by people who (gasp!) have opinions and want to share them with the world. I’d much rather have those than Pepsi Cola banners or pop-ups telling me about the cool prizes I may, or may not, have won. If links to opinion pieces really get you that riled up, why are you bothering to do the WOD in the first place? You should just read the article twice and that should satisfy your cardio time. Which brings me to the main point here…

Every time a lefty uses the word “Nazi,” to describe Coach or a right-winger, on this site, my heart sinks. I feel like we have already forgotten what people of Jewish descent, like me, promised our grandparents we would never do. We let my great uncle and his family die in that gas chamber and be burned in that incinerator, remembered only for the gold that was harvested from their blackened teeth and melted into gold for the Third Reich.

Yeah, Coach, who believes in Democracy and making us all healthier, for free, is a real bastard. You’re sure showing him.

-D.

My grandfather told me a great piece of advice years ago. " Religion and politics are a personal and individual thing. They are an individuals own choices for themselves. Never with them their or your choices.Because what they do in their time is their business. To do otherwise would be imposing thoughts and views on others"

This coming from a man who by doing his job from 1939 to 1945 helped his country in defeating the Nazis.

I have been following the Mens Journal story. This is my first week doing the WOD. I really needed this rest day!!

I don't have time to read the comments above, but I got in a debate on another forum a week or so ago, and came up with the following formulation, which I thought very clear:

The doctrine of moral relativism is inherently contradictory. It is the principle that no principle stands in qualitative superiority to any other. Logically, this principle is itself subject to itself, and is therefore inherently contradictory. It is empty, philosophically.

Historically, it derives from the simple observation that morals vary around the world. However, there is no reason to proceed from an observation of what people do what they OUGHT to do. A great deal of good has proceeded from the concept of inherent rights--such as the eventual abolition of slavery in this country--and I question whether people are willing to accept that slavery is not wrong in, say, Sudan, today, for the simple reason that "that is what they do."

Remember Ethics is based upon behavioral ideals--models--that we strive towards. Like the sunset, we can never reach an ideal, but the ideals give us a direction for activity, and a focus for our minds.

As far as ethical ideals, it would be tough to improve on the concept that "we hold these truths to be self evident: that Men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these rights are Life, liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, and that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men."

Dan Silver -
I hope some day we get to meet in person. Truly.

I was going to add a punch line - but not the time for it. Peace.

I'm just worried that young Tristram may be repressing his feelings a bit too much.

Muslims are presently being vilified in the same manner that Jews were represented in anti-semitic literature throughout the ages, (not limited to the Third Reich). African-Americans and others have likewise been represented in the same way. Japanese-Americans were depicted similarly prior to internment. Does this imply that Muslims will also be taken into custody and held indefinitely, and unjustly, without due process of law?
Representation matters. The same arguments against Islam and muslims were put forth in the Middle Ages to justify violence against the Other. At the time, Europe could claim none of the advances of the Muslim world, in terms of science, culture, tolerance or any other reasonable measure. Your beloved Western liberal tradition could not exist without the historical preservation afforded by Islamic Civilization. One thing I know is that no-one (on this site or within the links and articles) has demonstrated any familiarity with the teachings of Islam as it existed at that time and is still upheld by those who adhere to the majority position of Islam as exemplified by the four schools of law.
I despise modernist, post-Imperialistic do-it-yourself Islam as exemplified by Wahhabism, and its indiscriminate violence and political perversion. Likewise I despise the violence of "our" common past against Jews, Native Americans, African-Americans, "savages," women, etc. It wasn't that long ago, perhaps 100 years, that the mutilated genitals of slaughtered native American women were displayed at the Denver Opera House. It wasn't that long ago that lynching was common in the American South. Do those types of actions represent your liberal enlightened views, or your culture, or politics? Does violence in the name of Islam represent Islam?
Audhu billahi min ash-shaitan ar-Rajim.
Islam teaches that actions are judged according to intentions. The intention of those cartoons was not to demonstrate free speech. It was hateful and prejudiced. I pray that God(subhanhu wa ta'Allah) will guide us all to deeper insight and understanding. Hell is separation from God. Non-believers choose to follow their beliefs, and that is their perogative. Christians follow their beliefs (although i haven't seen anyone espousing turning the other cheek in this forum). Islam enjoins no compulsion in religion. God knows best.

Dan Silver
You have a way with words. Everything you said was dead on.

I've dropped Crossfit for kickboxing for the current season (hence no more posted dismal times from me) but...
...am I the only one who deliberately reads the rest day comments just because it's fun to watch everyone get all riled up?
And I'm a liberal, to boot. LMAO.

I'm seriosuly considering returning back to the bodybuilding protocol. I've been here for less than 2 months and I'm already sick and tired of the political BS here. Please for the love of God, stop puking your views all over us. Its bad for business. Don't you realize that?

Besides, don't you know what happens when you swing first, ask questions later? Just ask Moron Bush...the entire nation starts to turn their back on you. Just compare his ratings from now to his inauguration. Enough said.

Today's tip for all who get uspest about what they read. If you don't like what your reading then don't read it. Switch net locations or turn the page. No one held a gun to your head to read any of this.

Correction, meant upset.

Lack of caffine.

Hey Dan, way to put it in perspective. It always blows my mind that there is so very much incredibly helpful information on this site. I used to groan while reading political comments here, finding very few people I agree with. But, so what? I still appreciate the workout information. I subscribe to the journal, which is worth many times the price. And, notably, none of the volatile comments from my fellow "liberals' get booted off the site. Nothing wrong with complaining about the government. It is supposed to represent us all, so we all have a right to input. But this site is not "supposed" to represent anyone except the owners and whomever else they choose, so why all the indignation, Tristam? If Coach wants to advertise his political beliefs on his own site, then, as my Jewish grandmother would say, "he's entitled." On a lighter note, don't forget George Carlin.."Live and let live - whoever doesn't think so should be shot!" Peace

#46 Barry...cliff notes please? Your post sounds very intellectual man, but I have no idea what you are saying. Might as well be speaking Muslim lol. Anyway, just busting your chops...enjoy reading your posts on the board. Most of the time, they are quite entertaining. Peace.

Here is what I find funny:

1. Everyone assumes Coach is an ultra rightwing conservative becasue he provides links to articles then asks for comments. Yet no direct opinion is offered.

2. There are people who demand that ideology and politics be banned from the site, then proceed to write emotional, verbose responses to the articles.

3. Stay with me here, this might be tough - Politics and ideology are debated on REST days, soooooooo....when you come to www.crossfit.com and see that it is a rest day, then why not just REST? For those who do not like what read here, there is no reason to click on the comments section. Resist the urge to click and just rest.

That is, unless you are actually looking for a debate...which is the only reason why you might possibly post emotional discourse in a section that is normally devoted to posting fitness results.

Bottom line - If you ignore the "comments" section on rest days, you will discover that this is a free fitness site.

In the mean time, feel free to keep posting...it is free entertainment for me.

This is starting to look like a Monty Python skit in the making. Would Mr John cleese please report to crossfit.

I paid for an arguement
But your having one now.

I reckon it's coach's way of trying to get HR and BP elevated on rest days....sneaky bugger.

Spot on Mr Silver, especially the assasination by exclamation points bit (I spat juice at that point.)

PTFO people...

Hello all,

I just wanted to pitch in with a thanks to Coach (whomever you are) for the daily postings you make, I had totally lost the interest in going to the gym and repeating exercises again and again, your exercises have for me made me attempt limits of exercise I never actually thought I would be able to do and there is an anticipation of seeing what you will have me attempt do everyday, so many thanks for that.

On another note, I find the political discussion quite interesting, it's always of interest to see other peoples views and of course respect for other views is the only way we may start having empathy for the others, which I personally believe is the only real way to co-exist.

I wonder though are we as a world more extreme than in the past? Have we as people become more reliant on extreme views to up-hold a sense of knowing where we are? At the end of day all opinion and motivation for these opinions must arise from some basic needs and convictions that we hold to be true, so what are they today and are they different than in the past?

I don't have answers to all this, however a discussion today about Mr. Bush and a discussion tomorrow about the next elect is partially interesting to me, the more interesting thing is what lies behind the people that express their views, what do they hold to be true, is an over-reliance on the ability to classify all things as either good or bad the basic issue? what would happen if we didn't have that need? where does that need arise from?

Again thanks to the coach for the space.

Just an observation about human behaviour. I noticed that someone has to basically swear to make their point.

I see similar behaviour every where. People who are trying to argue/discuss something like two intelligent people. Then when one gets upset he starts swearing to make his point. Almost trying to bully the other person to their point of view.

My fiance once told me that swearing while arguing/discussing is actually makes you look less than you are. It shows the world how under educated a person you actually are.

If you want to not show that than one has to be creative in how they speak and write. Maybe one should listen to Churchill a few times. Learn how to say things without swearing and show the world how educated you actually are.

I have completely enjoyed all of the articles that come on rest days. I was raised in a household that is "uneducated" politically at best. Reading people's opinions of the articles and the arguments from both sides has encouraged me to do more research of my own. I now have a better understanding of what my true beliefs and philosophies are because of it.

Steve, I own and operate CrossFit Boston. Almost every day there is some discussion of politics that occurs. If anything, it has improved business b/c members exercise their minds as much as their bodies and really appreciate the opportunity. Does everyone participate? Of course not, that is their choice. Just as it is yours with this site.

Greg and Lauren,
Thank you for being yourselves. CrossFit has changed my life in ways that I could never have envisioned.

Neal

Let the girls run me around today (was going to say I gave the girls the run around but who am I kidding?)

so ...

21 Deadlift, 100kg
21 HSPU's
Run 800m
21 squat cleans, 55kg
21 ring dips
Run 800m
21 thrusters, 45kg
21 pull-ups
Run 800m

Time was 25:36 including all transitions, weight shuffling and gasping.

Happy with form on all exercises. Squat cleans and HSPU's getting better.

This was session 2 for the day. Did a warm-up then got a 1:28 500m on the C2 this morning - happy days.

Cheers, kempie

Oh, you were looking for an arguement, sorry this is abuse...try room #12 down the hall!!!

LMAO!!!

Now cleaning juice of my computer. Good one Sinebad.

Walt (#19) - I hope to meet you at the Arkansas State - Ole Miss game on Thursday (I'm the assistant coach for ASU) - it would be nice to know some crossfitters (relatively) nearby.

Anthony (#17) - I highly suggest you get Crossfit Journal #37 and #38 - the first has an article dealing with the lifting shoulder, the second with shoulder rehab. Good stuff.

As for comments about Coach's politics - I think he is a crypto-liberal! After all, if we go with the definition of classical liberalism (well, maybe with John Stuart Mill's definition) - it is about the clash/marketplace of ideas with the most salient one recognized for what it is. At the very least, he is doing us a service by having us confront each other's viewpoints and learn where we are coming from. I appreciate it and am constantly learning/adapting - which is what Crossfit seems to be about.

As to the arguments, it seems to me that there are two extremes, and that each side wants to paint the other side as being that extreme. On the one hand, you have the deconstructionist/post-modern "liberals/progressives/lefties" who have no set values, and always want to side on behalf of those who are anti-establishment. And then force everyone to do "what is right".

On the other hand, there are those who think that not only is there a "T" Truth, but they know exactly what it is, and as a result, can tell others what to do. And then force everyone to do "what is right".

Now, here's the kicker - one group of believers operate from university English, Philosophy, Foreign language, and "aggrieved persons" departments, while the other group of believers operate from pulpits of churches and mosques. Which one scares me more? Well, that's an easy answer for me, but for the rest of the Crossfit community, it might be different.

Once upon a time there was a very active little frog. She jumped around all the time and ate lean bugs and stuff. One day she saw an interesting pan and decided to jump in. It was filled with cool water so she decided to float around for a bit. After a while the pan started getting warmer every day and the little frog started getting lazier and eating big fat slugs instead of her usual good ones. Fairly soon she looked like a bloated, old frog but she didn't care because she was so comfortable.

One day she was floating around and she spotted a beautiful pitcher of Koolaid. "Hmmm, that sure looks good." She tried jumping out of the pan but it was difficult being that she was so weak and bloated. Yet she didn't give up. The frog jumped into the Koolaid and loved it. This Koolaid was some thing like she had never tasted before and she was very excited. Day after day she drank the Koolaid and day after day she noticed that she was beginning to get back to her active lean self.

Now the little frog is as happy as can be and she just gave her mate a taste of the Koolaid and he likes it!

The end.

Jan

Did the March journal get emailed out today?

I think this site is being ruined by politics.

As a newcomer to crossfit I am really excited at the new ways that crossfit makes me train, and makes me think. But none of that thinking is related to politics. It is all about how to train and read my body for the sports I want to play.

A lot of the political stuff is interesting, some I agree with and much of it is hilarious. However, I find it a total distraction from my real focus and the purpose of this site. Sometimes I skip the political posts entirely, or read them entirely, or try to see if they have bothered to include any actual, useful, workout related information.

I don't know what Coach's goals are in his continued posting of articles like today's. But it would be a shame if it diluted his powerful messages about fitness.

Religion and patrio-politics operate identically as ideological and sociological control systems. Both systems operate to mystify the average schmoo and make them susceptable to mind/physical control by whomever is in control of the apparatus of state violence, whether the CIA, the KGB, the Muslim Brotherhood, SLORC, The Department of Defense, Mossad, or the Carlyle Group. Both systems operate to turn oppression into consent. Both systems employ intellectuals and propagandists to produce their ideological content and to deploy it to maintain hegemonic control of the masses. Get the schmoos on each pole to mindlessly start hating each other rather than the racket of state violence and the elites that control it in service of their, and only their, strategic interests. Politics and religion are the original source of the so-called "Stockholm Syndrome", getting the schmoos to identify with the interests of the torturer, rather than the interests of the tortured.

Frankly, I take more of an evolutionary/ecological take to life and death on Earth. For example, I've been losing a lot of sleep lately thinking about the preponderance of good hard scientific evidence that we are all temporarily living on a rapidly dying planet, and that we who are alive today are all pretty much freaking doomed, as the inheritors of an irrepairably, industrially damaged planet, to witness our final extinction as a species. I encourage all in our CF community to stay strong for the coming "nature walk through the Apocalypse", and the big die-off to follow. I just feel really bad for my child, whom I will not live long enough to protect when things really start to become unglued.

N.B. those of you rabid "global warming is just a liberal, tree-hugger myth" types who have read too much Michael Crichton or other propaganda financed by the CEO of GM and who are now dialing up to flame me, please go to the web site of the National Academy of Sciences and look up their recent report on climate change. Or the Department of Defense's recently leaked classified report on the strategic threat of climate change. As a trained environmental scientist, I frankly don't want to hear how your take on the "myth of global warming" is better researched and thus more valid than that of the NAS. Thank you very much for your self-restraint.

If coach is going to post politics, he should do better than to plumb the deepest depths of mediocrity that is Jeff Goldstein.

Wow. 320 pounds one-hand vertical bar. Hoo boy. I can hardly do that with a regular deadlift. Thanks for the picture.

Good morning, you are here for abuse? Exellent, today we offer 2 selections of abuse. We have mental and physical abuse available for your enjoyment. Though you should know that today we are having a special on mental abuse.

Im here in iraq got caught behind the power curve on the workouts, how dare this war interupt my workout time.... so i did mondays workout today, and will lie to myself and say "well ill do the squats in the morning and the 5k run in the afternoon", sure big guy... one way or another i will catch up. im lovin it

Sean G: If you continue acting as the forum's administrator, we will put you to work. Whatta moron.

[Moderator note: This was not Sean G. The IP address used to post this remark (68.175.28.86) has been banned.]

Election Planners Meeting Notes(Rest Day):

Welcome Sweat Campaigners!!!

We are gathered here today to present our platform for Pukie/Rabdo in 2008. Please have a seat and make sure the lids on your nalgene bottles are secures as we may lose the deposit for the use of this storage-shed-turned-Crossfit gym.

Now Down to business. Our platform should be based on things we feel are a detriement to our way of life. We accept all volunteers regardless of race, creed, religion, or political ideology. We don't care if you us big words either, but please remember that our "base"(no relation to Al Qaeda) varies from intellects who use words such as "patrio-politcal" and "modernist Post-Imperialistic..." to hairy chested knuckle draggers who hang from their rings by their mouths, shaking back and forth, working that neck like a pitbull.

Sorry I digest...

What I mean is please feel free to say what you want, because regardless of what neoconservative, left wing, post apocalyptical rotary club you attend on your rest day...bottom line is....WE ARE ALL IN IT AGAIN TOMORROW!!!

May the rest of your rest day be spent enjoying it. This concludes our meeting, please wipe the sweat of the seats and stack the chairs in the corner.

"Need your Flab to go!!! Vote Pukie/Rabdo!!!"

Took yesterday off, battling a cold. Did run today. Ran "Castle Park" route (3.5 miles 3-4 good hills) in 35:36 @ 271#'s BWT (Avg HR 159 bpm). Prior to Xfit my best was about 38-39 minutes.

I love getting faster and running less.

I doubt I'm the only one who feels that 1) this site would be much better without the political postings on rest days, AND 2) the site owners have every right to post them. Those two beliefs are not mutually exclusive. So far (with a notable exception during the T-nation debacle) it appears that anyone is allowed to post anything on this part of the site. They can post any views at all on the rest day articles, and they can argue issues back and forth (often very impolitely). As far as I can tell, they can also post their objection to the articles being posted at all. The site owners don't seem to have a problem with that. I'm surprised so many people seem to be saying "If you don't like it don't read it, maybe even go to some other site but, my god, don't express the opinion that you don't like it!"

I thought "Love it or leave it" was a very un-American sentiment when I first heard it during the Vietnam era. I still think so now.

This site would be much better without the political postings on rest days.

I would really like to hear more about the conservative point of view. I'm serious: I don't understand what my friends on the 'right' are proposing. What actual POLICY CHANGES do THEY suggest? I honestly plead ignorance.

May I respectfully suggest a topic for a future Rest Day?

"What is the best way to fight a war on terror?"

I'd love to hear answers from conservatives and liberals alike. Maybe we can find points of agreement rather than just pointing fingers at one another.

New to CF- looking for tips

Do you copy the WOD to a notebook and keep records? Are you using a wristwatch to time? What equipment to I need? Should I get some rings first or wait till I can do all these pull-ups?

#76 Sinebad,

What are you trying to do? See if I'll actually spew my water through my nostrils.

Hi all,
Kegger, good run...

Workout as follows

Walk 3 miles
Run 5k (w/~25% of 182# bdw. on back).
Duration 28:10.
Until tomorrow...

#80 Kevin, Do yourself a favour and head over to the message board. Tons of info in there including equipment.

I wonder if Anson can duplicate or come close in the lift with his non-dominant side?

To: David, Comments 17,21 and Anthony, Comment 20

Guys, I forgot. For after healing rehab Swimming is very good.

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in
the field of truth and knowledge(from the left or right) is shipwrecked
by the laughter of the Gods."

Thanks to everybody at CF for continuing to produce a superior fitness program and an outstanding website. It is truly a life changing program. Having recently become a father, I really feel if I was still trying to get to the gym for 1.5 plus hour workouts, I would have given up by now due to my lack of time. CF let's me hit my garage in my homemade gym and bust out the WOD during my son't nap time. The baby monitor sits next to the treadmill-perfect! Thanks again for everything you guys do.

I'd like to see people relax about the politics. Libs won't ever understand conservatives and vice versa. It's how its supposed to be. Both sides have good ideas that usually get corrupted by the people that claim to be champions of them, politicians.

In my opinion, spend some time in service of your country and then report to me on how you see things. If you hate your country, how it works, or its leaders, you can leave. See, it's a free country. It's easy to be a "dissenter" in the US- no one kidnaps and imprisons you, and you get unlimited access to the faculty lounge and summers off. Try dissent in China. I dare say that most of the brave voices that speak out in hatred of the US would be strangely silent in the face of the CCP.

To: Tristram Comments 33,34,35,& 36
Please be advised, Coach is not a balls-to-the-wall-right-winger. Coach is a moderate, as are the the other celebrities you listed. There are some of us who think, "Crash four airplanes, nuke four cities." is elemental logic. What is the most popular Western name in the Middle East? Alexander. And he left mountains of skulls.

Sean G. I appreciate your response. And I agree we (the US) needs to project a position that supports our ideals of democracy - or in this case, free speech. Unfortunately, I lack enough information to suggest how. Until then, I'll keep reading.

From the amount of energy some people have here to get all wound up it seems that a release is needed.

I suggest train more. I think 3 hours should do it.

I like the political discourse on the rest days. So what if coach is a righty, moderate or liberal? He is providing a forum for discussion and that is commendable. Assuming no one is editing the comments. rpo (#87) I think I'll keep my dissent in this country (my country) where hopefully I can help to make it and the world a better place. I love my country it’s the leaders I have a hard time with. Dissent is critcal for a healthy democracy. And we should not forget that some of the human rights abuses in foreign countries are sponsored/endorsed by this country.
Thanks for forum Coach. ash

#89.
Your post perfectly sums up our involvement in the Middle East.

"We (the US) needs to project a position that supports our ideals of democracy - or in this case free speech. Unfortunately, I lack enough information to suggest how."

Lol...did you steal this from the President. This could be the script for his next speech lol.

BTW, I very much appreciate what Coach has created. Great respect. But as someone said above, politics and CrossFit are mutually exclusive. Separation of the two serve in the best interest of everyone. Just my humble opinion.

Non-political or WOD related:

I'm new here and noticeing there is emphasis on the Zone as the Nutrition plan of choice.

I'm taking a little poll and have follow up questions.

How many of you follow the Zone and how many don't?

Also, if you DO follow the Zone, I guess that means you don't drink beer, right? How can anyone drink beer and say they follow the Zone?

I love all this political ranting, it is very amusing

Sinebad, you write very true things

Have fun, happy healthy (mind) training

Johan

Rocky, perhaps we need to know what you mean when you say that multiculturalism is a core value for you. What it means to you is likely radically different from what it means to me.

To me it relates back all the way to the days in the 60s and 70s when we were supposed to all love one another and not be "judgmental." To me multiculturalism is all wrapped up in the notions that it is wrong for me to make moral judgments, or to say that one culture is better than another, or that immigrants to this country should not assimilate. Identity politics directly and logically flow from the premises of multiculturalism. A man is to be identified not by who he is, an individual with his own thoughts and feelings, but by the group he belongs to. It's assumed, wrongly, that all blacks think alike, that all Muslims think alike, that all women think alike, and that they are entitled to special rights and privileges as group members. That is unless your group is white folks. All other ethnic groups trump being white in the identity politics schema. So nowadays on those forms that ask for such information, I say I'm Celtic, a group long oppressed by evil pommies, but so far no government program has come to my aid.

Arthur Schlesinger has written eloquently back in the 80s that the whole idea of America is going down the drain with multiculturalism, in "The Disuniting of America: Reflections on A Multicultural Society". The updated 1998 version is here
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393318540/qid=1141237036/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-3834369-1729759?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

But the best and most prolific writer on the philosophical roots of multiculturalism and empirical studies of the pernicious effects of the identity politics that it produces is Tom Sowell. "Affirmative Action Around The World: An Empirical Study", "Ethnic America: A History", "Race and Culture: A World View", "Migrations and Culture", "Conquest and Culture" "Civil Rights: Rhetoric or Reality", "Preferential Policies", "The Economics and Politics of Race". Any one of those books is a great start to understanding the libertarian/conservative view of these issues.

At one level multiculturalism is based on the seemingly valid notion, "Who are we to judge another person or culture". But underpinning this notion is the assumption that it is wrong for us to make judgments about right and wrong. This is the logic hole that multiculturalists dig for themselves, because where does it end? When the jihadi comes to behead you with his scimitar how can you, in line with multicultural beliefs, resist him? After all, it's right for him, and who are you to judge his morals or his culture? Was it wrong for us to resist Hitler's attempts to dominate the world? Was it wrong for us to consider his slaughter of millions in ethnic cleansing operations as being evil and criminal? Multiculturalists cannot answer these questions without severe damage to the credibility of their theories.

The article today was linked in Saturday's article, and is relevant to Saturday's rest day commentary. The point of both, to me, is that multiculturalism is one of several false premise memes that seriously erode our ability to resist evils such as radical Islam. Identifying them as false and logically bankrupt is good exercise for the health of the nation and its culture. Identifying the source of the memes as Soviet disinformation is helpful, but not necessary to understand that their existence and widespread acceptance by those on the left is hurting our effort in the Global War On Terror.

Rob F: I have been saying the exact same thing for weeks now.

Dan Silver: Nice.

I don't have a popular opinion of modern culture or politics, so I tend to limit what I post. I think the articles are doing what I think Coach intended: giving us something to think about. See Rob F's comment. Why silence the owner of the site? Why stifle his opinion because it does not agree with yours? Maybe we should fill your email with requests to stop posting. It is the same in my opinion. My suggestion is read, think, consider another viewpoint, and discuss. I think it is going a little far with the demands for removal of politics. Maybe Coach is posting the articles to drive people away? Maybe like an overly popular band breaking up in the height of their popularity. I am glad that the site is here and I hope that it remains free and we can all enjoy it. I think the best comment I have seen voiced the opinion that people are free to avoid what they do not like on this site.

Oh hell, Dan, they're going to start calling you an evil racist any minute now.

Coach can you please restock the comments cards at the door, apparently Tristam took the whole stack and put them in the comment box...damn where's the pencil too?? Oh well.

Love these off days....I mean every now and then I flip the channels and get stuck on the home shopping network for like 3 hours..and I have no idea why I am watching some guy put moose in his hair...but I dont pick up the phone and bitch out QVC for not giving me sports scores...

Pick up the remote and change the channel on the offdays people if you don't like the conversations. The fact that people are looking for conflicts backs up how crazy this world is and why we can't all just get along and sing songs running down the hills of Sweeden...ahhhh, days of summer.

Hi Joe,

My husband and I are on our third day of the Zone diet. We have decided to have one day per week when the ale will flow, most likely the a weekend day. Already feeling more energetic from just the short time I've been following the Zone.

To anwser a few questions: the vertical bar is simply a 1"x24" smooth steel bar with a plate on the bottom to hold the weights.

Jonathan- my best V-bar lift lefty is 293lbs, I didn't try the 320lb with my left hand that day at the competition because there were still 2 events to go. The v-bar is a fun lift, it tests your crushing/wrist strength and pain tolerance.

In the competition forum I've posted the full contest results and my contact info. Anyone interested in learning more about grip strength should check out the Gripboard at www.gripboard.com

It's great to see this little known strength sport get some big time exposure, thanks Crossfit!

I don't know why people get so upset about rest day discussions... how does this make the regular WOD any less effective? Somebody up there said he might give up on X-fit because of it???

I think "labels" are too limiting and a bit of a cop-out. Its just too easy to pigeon-hole a person into some "group" with an generalized opposing philosphy and then totally dismiss them out of hand.

I could be a "right winger" on some issues and a complete "lefty" on others. My profilings suggest I'm a "centrist" - what the hell is that? Some would say a "fence-sitter" but I don't think so - I think its about balance.

BTW
In my opinion I think most of the cartoons were re-printed for the primary reason of $$$ the "freedom" thing was only a part of it. The response was predictable.

PS
Props to Siver Tongue Dan!

Five cheers for CrossFit: one for the program, three for the WODs, and one for the day dedicated to mental fitness. Our criminals leave jail hardened and ready to resist arrest, but still committed criminals, self-righteous victims of society. So too, our cops need CrossFit to be even more fit physically, but mentally fit as well, better able to resist the left who oppose any kind of police or military toughness that might stand in the way of its political power.

Sometimes this resistance of the left is an autoimmune disease, as when they oppose the very wars they are executing.

Rocky #4 deflects the national and worldwide problem with the left by mischaracterizing it. Unfortunately, we have no operational definition of what is meant by liberal and conservative. Rocky, the problems with the left today do not stem from Lincoln anti-slavery liberalism. Nor do they revolve around sexism, child labor, and your other laundry list of irrelevant tenets.

But Rocky paints a target on his chest when he espouses limitless tolerance and limitless multiculturalism. In fact, the objectionable left doesn’t even practice these virtues. Political correctness is left code for anti-free speech, and even free thought. Income redistribution and affirmative action are left tenets for its intolerance of capitalism and the freedom to succeed or fail. Multiculturalism is the left’s cynical code word for its Marxist goal of converting the American experience, a powerful, single culture, into islands of dependent constituents for the Democrat party, especially dividing us by race.

Since World War II, the left has been dedicated to a strong central government, to anti-capitalism (which is arguably equivalent to anti-liberty), and to federal largesse. It is dedicated to achieving power by exploiting the impotence of our federal government to resist populism. Bush has preempted almost every program of the left, leaving it nothing but a program of Bush hatred. Whatever Bush does is automatically wrong, regardless of reason or what opposition might mean for the war, for the troops, or for the nation. The left is wallowing in the gutter.

Bush does not see himself as the leader of the conservative movement. He hands are full as the leader of the US and of the Free World.

CrossFit would be well advised to take a different tack, though -- away from political philosophical prattlings. Academic philosophers try to package political history into convenient models. But they get confused between the propaganda of movements and their reality. Their models are often fuzzy, and never have any predictive power. The concepts of fascism, postmodernism, Marxism, positivism, and maybe classical anything may be positivism, but useless.

What counts is that the killers are at the front door! Step one, kill or be killed. What counts next is to target the objectives of their leaders. How can we deny them those objectives, and even deliver a convincing setback?

The first rule of warfare, and perhaps the best kept secret at the war colleges, is -- take from the enemy what he cherishes most. Bush did just that in the middle east. He took Afghanistan, Iraq, and effectively Lebanon away from the coalition of terrorist states, leaving Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iran each isolated and threatened.

Islamic suicide bombers, like the Kamikaze before them, are idiots, made so through religious instruction. They are not influenced by philosophical concepts like rationalism and empiricism. Neither are their leaders who send them on their mission. The leaders are not at all suicidal. And regardless of what they preach, they don’t follow such bookish notions like the academic philosophies. They are dedicated to expanding personal power, in the convenient name of Islam, beginning with their prime irritant: Israel.

George Bush is not the sharpest crayon in the box, either -- just sharper than Gore or Kerry. W is more influenced by his religious training than by academic theories, and that unfortunately limits his reaction to the Imams. But the US is blessed to have had him in office on 9/11/01. He had the good instinct to get mad, and to stay made. Bully.

A Republican/rightist is a democrat/leftist whose been mugged.

5k Run = 28:37

Felt good, thought it was faster, but I'll take it.

Just set up a site called crossideas and post on that and lets use this as a FITNESS SITE!!!!!!And do not bleat on about

" at least we have the freedom to talk about these things"

I know that.I appreciate that but this is called

CROSSFIT.

"the post modernist interpretation of liberal ....." OOOPS ITS CATCHING!!

Jeff Glassman,

You didn't answer my questions. What are YOUR values other than dislike of the left? Stop mischaracterizing my values for me. Your intellectual categories are not helpful. It's not useful. I most obviously did not advocate limitless tolerance or limitless multiculturalism. I pointedly made the opposite point, which contradicts your self-serving stereotypes so you twist my words: The opposite of multiculturalism, as every lefty I know defines it, is Fascism, including Islamofascism. The Islamofascists would agree with your statement that some higher truth and optimum culture exists. The opposite of relativism is absolutism.

Check out recent editorials by Robert Scheer, Tim Rutten of the LA Times, and numerous others in the Left. They universally decry Muslim threats against free-speech, and the middle of the road fear of publishing thse Danish cartoons for fear of retaliation.

It is a very weak form of argument to mischaracterize your opponent's argument and then accuse him of hypocrisy for not staying in the box you've made for him.

It is patently absurd to say that lefties have no values of right and wrong. If anything they have an overly developed sense of fairness. Perhaps that has led to bad policies. So fix them.

I'm interested in what you propose. Lay out some policies. If your only goal is to drum up animosity against the left, then you are pathetic.

If your goal is to fight the enemy at the door, however, then I just gave you the opportunity of a lifetime: I just told you how to win millions of liberals to your side. Maybe the word 'multiculturalism' pushes too many buttons for conservatives so call it 'individualism' if you want. No liberal is against individualism. Just ask one. We all want the same thing. You should be builging as wide a concensus as possible for your proposals (if you have any) rather than artificually dividing Americans against one another.

Now how do YOU propose to fight Militant Islam in Europe and America? Pretend there are no liberals. If you could do whatever you want, what would you do? Try not to even use the word liberal.

If you can't answer the question, then I'll know that conservatism is completely vapid and empty at its core. I sincerely hope that conservatism has something more to offer than hatred of liberals and tax cuts.

Front squats today, missed yesterday's 5k.

PR of 175

Actually I think I will just stop looking at rest days.That the simple answer.

When Dan posts I'm reminded of two reasons I'm envious of him:
1. He's half my age; twice as insightful.
2. He can say what I would like to say, except I need much more to drink before I can say it so elloquently.

I am honored to count him and his wife among my closest friends. Of that, you may be envious of me.

So, in closing: What Dan said.

I'm not a right winger or a left winger..I play center on my hockey team.

I'm neither left nor right in my views. I just have to be on the right otherwise the city bus would knock me off my bike.

"liberal" in the usa is what the american left started calling themselves after the whole Stalin thing came out and times changed and words like "socialist" didn't sound very good. Everywhere else in the world "liberal" means classical free market capitalism. The western liberal tradition generally refers to that. A less confusing word would be progressive. Goldwater conservatives are really liberals whereas neocons are more conservative. Pat Buchannan is the only real conservative though. Of course both liberal and conservative can be used in many different ways. For instance, the "liberal" application of the crossfit methodology to a set of individuals can lead to rapid improvements in their fitness. Likewise, it would be "conservative" to suggest Pat Robertson is merely insane.

It's interesting that the mainstreem media rags on Pat Robertson endlessly (sometimes he deserves it) yet gives Louis Farrakhan a free pass.

Re: #102

You're right! Lol.

Can we say brainwashed lol.

Bummer that today's comment was a socio-religio-political one. This is the place I come to get away from that crap. I hope rest days don't become soapbox days.

These rest day discussions remind me of something I experienced back in high school:

A group of people came to our campus one day to promote something called “Campus Life” or something like that. One night every other week, we would meet off campus to do fun group activities, team-building, etc. It was great. But about 3 months after this started, one of the meetings took on a somewhat religious tone. Nothing overbearing, but it made most of us look around and wonder “what is going on?” We just dismissed it and thought it was a fluke. Then, during the next meeting, the religious undertone became even stronger and it then became clear that these group meetings were becoming religious functions. It took those first few months of “fun” stuff to build up a sizable audience before they sprung the religious stuff on us and most of the group stopped coming.

I hope that doesn’t happen here. I just turned 38 years old and I just found out that my wife is pregnant with our first child. I came here to get in shape so I can be active with my child, not regret bringing children into this world. If I want to feel that way, I will watch the news on TV. There is a forum for this type of discussion, and I didn’t think it was on Crossfit.

Executed Monday's WoD today in ~ 27:25.
-Additional 3 sets of weighted dips @ 25, 35, 45lbs.

Rest shmest! I did some strength training since I had to modify past workouts

Squats (1st since knee surgery!!!)
3 sets @ 135 X 15

Deadlift (again, first since surgery)
135 X 12
185 X 8
205 X 5
205 X 5

Incline bench
4 sets @ 165 x 6

Standing overhead press
4 sets 100 X 6

narrow grip pullups
12
10
8

Time to ice down the knee!

CS (#116):

Welcome to CrossFit. Congratulations to you and your wife. This is the regular rest day show. You can start worrying about the secret agenda when the work/rest ratio gets reversed. Until then, please stick around. Best of luck with your training.

Mike Mueller (#70):

Dr. Rocket is in the house. Beware a nasty smack down if you get him started on the "hard scientific evidence" for global warming.

Sean G:

Lauren (#40) posted as you in comment #75 and has had his IP address banned. (68.175.28.86 RoadRunner cable, NY, NY)

george bush doesn't like black people...

signed
kanye

david post #17
In the seventies I played rugby with a guy at Ft. Benning that told everyone that had an injury to "take aspirin until your ears start ringing". Don't do it! but it worked.

and by the way, George Bush doesn't let his religious views dictate his judgement.... he has changed religions more times then he's lied.

forgot - Dan Silver, great.

Group Moffett completed the WOD as follows:

Run 400 meters
30 burpees
Run 400 meters
25 burpees
Run 400 meters
20 burpees
Run 400 meters
15 burpees
Run 400 meters

Total time of: 31:56:06

I don't know what to say. Dan Silver put together some good words though.

Tristram, Rocky, others...You guys like to write, huh.

To all those who think Right wingers are Nazi's or extremists... Who's the group out there throwing rocks at the others rallies? Who's charging a stage to assault a speaker who has an opinion that differs? Who's holding violent rallies to protest something that they've done a 1000 times? Who gets so heated over a discussion, they want to throw their pathetic attempts at a Punch at the person who just embarrassed them? Who had Osama in their sights and didn't have the balls to give the order to take him out? Etc... Etc... Etc... Now who is the Nazi?

Give me a break. I wish I had the time to do the research to post the info supporting my comments, but I have a job. A job providing a blanket of security for you. And yes, I support my President and his actions. Maybe not everything he did, but the majority. And more importantly, I admire a guy who takes an unpopular stance, on an unpopular issue because he feels it's what's best for the safety of this country.

Think about it. You may call him a moron, and slander him for his inability to speak eloquently. But at least he has the moral character to do what he sees best for this country and then stand by his guns. Not sway back and forth like a piece of grass in the wind.

Remember back when leaders had character? Political parties cared more about the country then themselves? When Presidents were able to not cheat on their wives(or at least get caught)? Well, we have President who still embodies that.

In closing, I have a several family members who were Democrats way back in the day. Now they wont hardly admit to it. Why? Because the Left got lost! Lost in the sauce. Just look at their leaders. Senator Kennedy, Kerry, Hillary, etc... They speak volumes about what's going on over there.

Thank God no 5K in Wichita Falls, TX today temp 98 deg, Coach Rip and X-fit thanks for the rest day.

Rocky #105:

1. When you wrote, “Anyone who tries to limit tolerance and multiculturalism is bad”, did I err to take that for your viewpoint? If any limit is bad, isn’t this a limitless claim? Or were speaking rhetorically, for someone with whom you disagreed?

2. Multiculturalism as I witness it is well served by its name. It is tolerance for and promotion of cultures other than the American culture within the US. Whatever those other cultures might be, the very idea is collectivist, not at all, as you suggest, individualist. They are most closely opposites.

3. You say I twisted your words, but remarked on “your statement that some higher truth and optimum culture exists.” Next you seem to correct my use of relativism. That’s a triple foul: I used none of those terms. I would volunteer that the American culture is by far the best. It’s imperfect, witness Affirmative Action or the drug subculture, but we do manage to repair it. If some other culture had a better tenet, we’d adopt it, wouldn't we? Is there another maleable culture, much less one striving for perfection?

4. Why would anyone care about left wing editorials criticizing Muslim threats, written by individuals trying to sabotage the war effort, i.e., Vietnamize it?

5. I don’t think the American left today is salvageable. The American right, especially W, has eaten the left’s lunch. Bush is about as far left as I can tolerate. I do like a two party system, and look forward to a Republican/Libertarian divide.

6. I don’t encourage fighting militant Islam beyond the Middle East. Bush erred by not defining the war on terror better at the outset. Now he can clean house there.

7. Sorry to be vague about my values, and happy to offer a draft. They would begin with (1) minimal federal government, and its complement, federalism (2) capitalism (private ownership of property + a stable currency (balanced budgets) + auction markets for goods and money (interest), generally, individual freedom plus a healthy infrastructure), (3) sophisticated military power, surgically applied, (4) patriotism, (5) selfless heroism, (6) private charities, especially in place of federal welfare, (7) individualism.

I admire capitalism for its ability to improve everyone's lot vis a vis any other system. I reject the notion of uniformity of results.

I fear, though, the move toward populism is irreversible. It could be ameliorated with a national referendum and a national initiative. I look forward to the Supreme Court abolishing Affirmative Action as antithetical to American culture, a political aberration, and harmful to the people it helps in name but hurts in fact. I look forward to term limits: a single term for every federally elected office for the full term of the office. I would admire to see laymen on the Supreme Court. I would like to see scientific (technical) literacy developed in K-12, and become a prerequisite for news readers. I admire respect for the language and precision in its use.

This article is totally true. As racist as the Danish Front may be, I support their ability to burn whatever they want as long as they do it with regard to public safety.

So what's the solution? How are we going to get Muslims to not get so pissed off whenever a bunch of Westerners bad talk Mohammed and the Koran? How are we going to establish freedom in a theocratic Middle East? You'd have to be a genius to figure that one out. My theory is they're just poor and uneducated. We're pretty well fed in the states so not too many people are willing to risk their lives fighting over a book.

And people who are turning this into a 'liberal vs. conservative' debate are just reacting emotionally. Yeah yeah, you got beaten up by some jocks in school or your dad didn't like you so now you have extreme political opinions. Great for you. Let's talk issues.

Sex Pistol Johhny Rotten recently said the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame was "urine in wine". I think that is a perfect description of what both the left and the right are to the US political system. I want a third choice or preferably unlimited choices besides this same tired dichotomy. As evidenced by many of the above remarks, the back and forth is unproductive and doesn't address, much less resolve, anything.

Fanatics, Islamic or otherwise, don't care if W. beat Kerry or whatever. They hate the West and the US in particular. While we squabble amongst ourselves and worry about offending them(Allah forbid), they are driven by the one unifying goal of destroying us. The multiculteral flaw is that its one-sided. Why is it the sole responsibility of the West to understand and accomodate other cultures? Do these other cultures bear no responsibility to do the same? They ask for what they do not give.

If people aren't going to be tolerant of each other then someone will always impose their will, values, and culture on another. Why is 'theirs' more valid than 'ours'? If 'they' are willing to do anything to implement their agenda then why should our hands be tied to resist it?

Sorry for actually discussing some of the themes of the article instead of playing the liberal/neo-con blame game, making wild speculations about the measure of someone(Coach) or whining about rest day discussion topics and how they 'have no place here'. The value I take on the other three days is far greater than any aggravation I may feel at reading new and/or opposing points of view. I'll put up with it so I can keep taking free workouts from the people who pay the bandwidth around here.

PJ and Glen
NH boys

500 Row
Bench 185lbs- 21 reps
HSPU -21
Thrusters 95lbs- 21
500 Row
15 reps bench
15 hspu
15 thrusters
500 row
9 reps bench
9 hspu
9 thrusters

31 minutes

A libertarian! I knew it!

I like libertarians, they're like kids living in a bubble. They're willfully ignorant when it comes to the real world. Their views, although sound theoretically, have no basis in reality. Completely delusional.
Corporations policing themselves, no social assistance for the poor and privatisation of every service. All sound good, but fall on their face in real life.

Also, dissent is not treason. So stop telling people to go to China. This love it or leave it b.s. doesn't belong in a free society.

For those who took the intention of this article to be another leg of Coach's alleged political agenda...I think you may have missed the point of the article; if you actually read it entirely.
What I got from the article was a warning about any knee-jerk reaction we as Americans might have as far as taking a political position on the Danish cartoon debate. The right to free speach is under attack at home as well as abroad.
It seems like everyone is in favor of freedom of speach until it insults "their religion" or "their race" or "their f*#!ing whatever"!!!
We should think before we take a hard position on an issue,when that position may be in conflict with and serve to discredit one of our most fundamental rights.
Maybe it's just me...but Conservative vs Liberal is not what I got out of this article. "All Americans" should be mindful not to let the enemy; or anyone for that matter, talk us out of our Constitution.

@ Rob_M:

Discussing the article is an exercise in futility, since it's such utter garbage. That's what bothers me most about the political content here. It's either propoganda or or think tank tripe.

For people like yourself to honestly believe that muslims are a threat to the West just boggles my mind. How can otherwise sane and rational people be such cowards and xenophobes?
Looking back at our history in the Mid-East, it's easy to see where the hate stems from. Propping princes and kings, arming and training despots and death squads, our one-sided approach to Israel-Palestine etc. all serve to foster hate and resentment in the Muslim World. And still we don't see all out chaos. Western interests aren't being targeted by a +1 billion angry muslims. We have bases all across the muslim world and none of them are targeted.
What we face today is a violent fanatical few, who by the way target and kill more muslims than non-muslims. This is a sect of Wahhabis, trained by us in the 80's and funded by Saudi money. In the 90's they spread all across the muslim world, trying to establish their caliphate. Tens of thousands of dead muslims later, and no such luck.
See, even a simple overview of the region's recent history would show you the roots of this turmoil we see today, but you're happy living in a bubble, convinced that the boogey-man (or captain falafel) is coming to get you. That's why you're a coward.

Liberal/conservative thing: what's in my mind, personally, is how many campus politico started in effect saying "we must have done something to deserve it" when the planes hit. I don't think we have a major problem with "Islamofascism" in this country. Put bluntly: they couldn't get away with that crap here, ESPECIALLY post 9/11. I think in Europe, they have a major problem. They have embraced a comfortable and confrontation-free socialism for all intents and purposes since they rebuilt following WW2. You had America protecting them, so they spent money making themselves fat and happy. Now they have militants essentially telling them they want to kill their liberalism, and they are having trouble taking decisive action because of the sorts of multicultural concerns and vacuous ideologies people are firing at here.

Personally, I like the fact that Bush assesses situations, and has the moral clarity to make clearcut decisions, even when he incurs the flack of the whole world. Leadership is not a popularity contest.

Now I can't say with certainty where we will be in 10 years. I can say this Iraq conflict will last at least five more years, in my view. At some point the Iranians will get nukes, and we need to make it crystal clear to them that they will cease to exist as a nation if any find their way here. Israel can take care of itself, in that regard. They probably have command detonated nukes buried over there already.

This whole cartoon mess is good: it shows very clearly the types of people we are dealing with, and what they would do if they ever achieved widespread influence in any western nation. I have compared these angry street mobs with the German S.A. in other forums. I think the comparison is apt. In this country, we don't discuss race because of political considerations. In Europe--and to a lesser extent here--people don't say what they think about Islam because, quite simply, they seem to enjoy killing people.

It all seems sad to me that we have all these rights, yet so few people actually use them. People get annoyed with these discussions on message boards, yet they still seem to read them.

These issues are important, whether people want to discuss them or not. Intellectual growth, like physical growth, comes from exercise, and what better exercise than articulating and then defending your ideas and beliefs in an atmosphere of contraversy.

I post on another forum a lot, and at times found myself under attack by 5-10 people at the same time. I liked those odds. They had no chance. I did vow to give up polemic for Lent, though, so I better stop.

-------------

"The 12 cartoons ... have caused an uproar in the Muslim world and drawn a new cultural battle over freedom of speech and respect of religions."
Translation: “Free speech is good so long as it tolerates our right, as an identity group, to dictate which free speech is authentic and allowable. Otherwise, y’know, we get to torch shit.”

-------------

I fail to comprehend how the author's critique gets from point A to point B. Am I saying that there is not a tendency in certain media outlets to tolerate intolerance? Of course not. However, the article selected by the linked blog is not, in my opinion, an excellent example of such an egregious slant.

Regarding multiculturalism and freedom of speech:

There is such a thing as good taste, and some of those who espouse freedom of speech seem to have forgotten the distinction between liberty and lisence. I sincerely doubt that any wise man - especially including the ultimate fathers of free speech over and against religion (Hobbes, Spinoza, Locke, and Rousseau) would have encouraged explicit impiety. Such speeches do no one any good. Is this to say that we should legislate against anti-Muslim cartoons? Absolutely not: Rather, it is to say that the Danes should have better taste. 'Ni dieu, ni maitre' is a slavish saying.

rocky's demand: 'Show me the non-fascist alternative to multiculturalism and tolerance,' needs answering. But first, in my opinion, the question is need of elucidation.

For multicultaralism and tolerance, once known as toleration, have different lineages. Toleration comes out of the line of political philosophy proceeding from Hobbes through Locke, and thence to the founding documents of our Republic. What are the origins of multiculturalism? I am aware of lines of argument that erroneously describe multicultaralism as falling out of the political thought of Rousseau and Nietzsche, but I am not aware of any convincing argument for the principle that diversity of culture is a good thing. I should be indebted to rocky or anyone else who might explain to me in what multicultarism consists, and what ground it has.

Johan the Dutchman!

Next time I'm in your neck of the dikes, I'll be doing some serious mind training at the smart shop and the Rieks Museum!!

People...The Dutch know the deal.

Thanks...and have a good one tomorrow.

Pukie/Rabdo '08

One more thing...

I've come up with a rep scheme for those who choose to "exercise" on rest days:

21-15 and 9 reps ( no time limit ) of:

Eyeball swings ( read the article )
Brain thrusters( think about what you've read )
Finger sprints ( post your educated opinion )

Sequence of exercises is important...finish all reps of one exercise before moving onto the next.

"we have bases all over the Muslim world and none of them are targeted."

Aurelius--you have got to be kidding right. Ah, none of them have targeted any bases YOU have been on because(shot in the dark), your idea of a night patrol is stubbling to the pisser in the middle of the night.

Think your crossfit workout was tough, feeling woozy at the water cooler? Do fight gone bad then raid a house in the middle of the night. Or run to the bunkers in the middle of a workout, then have to cut it short cause someone you spend every miserable day with is now trying to talk to you through a missing jaw.

That is the sorriest posting I have witnessed.

Damn, you through the word coward around like you know the difference.

I hope the workout tomorrow is a crusher, so when you are lying at the massage therapist's telling her how sore Xfit makes you feel, the thought of my crew stretching out there legs on patrol might just cross your mind.

Work your murder muscles boys...

Finally found the intellectual 'playbook' that the Bush administration is using in the GWOT or as it's now known, "The Long War". Those in charge have definitely read this guy.
Excerpt from:
Ralph Peters’ new book, “When Devils Walk the Earth.” (He's an ex-Army Infantry Col.)

1. Be feared

2. Identify the type of terrorists you face, and know your enemy as well as you possibly can. Although tactics may be similar, strategies for dealing with practical vs. apocalyptic terrorists can differ widely. Practical terrorists may have legitimate grievances that deserve consideration, although their methods cannot be tolerated. Apocalyptic terrorists, no matter their rhetoric, seek your destruction and must be killed to that last man. The apt metaphor is cancer: you cannot hope for success if you only cut out part of the tumor. For the apocalyptic terrorist, evading your efforts can easily be turned into a public triumph. Our bloodiest successes will create far fewer terrorists and sympathizers than our families.

3. Do not be afraid to be powerful. Cold War-era gambits of proportionate response and dialog may have some utility in dealing with practical terrorists, but they are counter-productive in dealing with apocalyptic terrorists. Our great strengths are wealth and raw power. When we fail to bring those strengths to bear, we contribute to our own defeat. For a superpower to think small, which has been our habit across the last decade, at least, is self-defeating folly. Our responses to terrorist acts should make the world gasp.

4. Speak bluntly. Euphemisms are interpreted as weakness by our enemies and mislead the American people. Speak of killing terrorists and destroying their organizations. Timid speech leads to timid actions. Explain when necessary, but do not apologize. Expressions of regret are never seen as a mark of decency by terrorists of their supporters, but only as a sign that our will is faltering. Blame the terrorists as the root cause whenever operations have unintended negative consequences. Never go on the rhetorical defensive.

5. Concentrate on winning the propaganda war where it is winnable. Focus on keeping or enhancing the support from allies and well-disposed clients, but do not waste an inordinate amount of effort trying to win unwinnable hearts and minds. Convince hostile populations through victory.

6. Do not be drawn into a public dialog with terrorists, especially not with apocalyptic terrorists. You cannot win. You legitimize the terrorists by addressing them even through a third medium, and their extravagant claims will resound more successfully on their own home ground than anything you can say. Ignore absurd accusations, and never let the enemy’s claims slow or sidetrack you. The terrorist wants you to react, and your best means of unbalancing him and his plan is to ignore his accusations.

7. Avoid planning creep. Within our vast bureaucratic system, too many voices compete for attention and innumerable agendas, often selfish and personal – intrude on any attempt to act decisively. Focus on the basic mission: the destruction of the terrorists with all the moral, intellectual and practical rigor you can bring to bear. All other issues, from future nation building, to alliance consensus, to humanitarian concerns are secondary.

8. Maintain resolve. Especially in the Middle East and Central Asia, experts and diplomats will always present you with a multitude of good reasons for doing nothing, or for doing too little (or for doing exactly the wrong thing). Fight as hard as you can within the system to prevent diplomats from gaining influence over the strategic campaign. Although their intentions are often good, our diplomats and their obsolete strategic views are the terrorist’s unwitting allies and diplomats are extremely jealous of military success and military authority in their region (where their expertise is never as deep or subtle as they believe it to be). Beyond the problem with our diplomats, the broader forces of bureaucratic entropy are an internal threat. The counter-terrorist campaign must be not only resolute, but constantly self-rejuvenating in ideas, techniques, military and inter-agency combinations, and sheer energy. Old hands must be stimulated constantly by new ideas.

9. When in doubt, hit harder than you think necessary. Success will be forgiven. Even the best-intentioned failure will not. When military force is used against terrorist networks, it should be used with such power that it stuns even our allies. We must get over our cowardice in means. While small-scale raids and other knifepoint operations are useful against individual targets, broader operations should be overwhelming. Of course, targeting limitations may inhibit some efforts but whenever possible, maximum force should be used in simultaneous operations at the very beginning of a campaign. Do not hesitate to supplement initial target lists with extensive bombing attacks on nothing if they can increase the initial psychological impact. Demonstrate power whenever you can. Show; don’t tell.

10. Whenever legal conditions permit, kill terrorists on the spot (do not give them a chance to surrender, if you can help it). Contrary to academic wisdom, the surest way to make a martyr of a terrorist is to capture, convict and imprison him, leading to endless efforts by sympathizers to stage kidnappings, hijacking and other events intended to liberate the imprisoned terrorist(s). This is war, not law enforcement.

11. Never listen to those who warn that ferocity on our part reduces us to the level of the terrorists. That is the argument of the campus, not of the battlefield, and it insults America’s service members and the American people. Historically, we have proven, time after time, that we can do a tough, dirty job for our country without any damage to our nation’s moral fabric (Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not interfere with American democracy, values or behavior).

12. Spare and protect innocent civilians whenever possible, but do not let the prospect of civilian casualties interfere with ultimate mission accomplishment. This is a fight to protect the American people, and we must do so whatever the cost, or the price in American lives may be devastating. In a choice between them, and us the choice is always us.

13. Do not allow the terrorists to hide behind religion. Apocalyptic terrorists cite religion as a justification for attacking us; in turn, we cannot let them hide behind religious holidays, taboos, strictures or even sacred terrain. We must establish a consistent reputation for relentless pursuit and destruction of those who kill our citizens. Until we do this, our hesitation will continue to strengthen our enemy’s ranks and his resolve.

14. Do not allow third parties to broker a peace, a truce, or any pause in operations. One of the most difficult challenges in fighting terrorism on a global scale is the drag produced by nervous allies. We must be single-minded. The best thing we can do for our allies in the long-term is to be so resolute and so strong that they value their alliance with us all the more. We must recognize the innate strength of our position and stop allowing regional leaders with counterproductive local agendas to subdue or dilute our efforts.

15. Don’t flinch. If an operation goes awry and friendly casualties are unexpectedly high, immediately bolster morale and the military’s image by striking back swiftly in a manner that inflicts the maximum possible number of casualties on the enemy and his supporters. Hit back as graphically as possible, to impress upon the local and regional players that you weren’t badly hurt or deterred in the least.

16. Do not worry about alienating already-hostile populations.

17. Whenever possible, humiliate your enemy in the eyes of his own people. Do not try to use reasonable arguments against him. Shame him publicly, in any way you can. Create doubt where you cannot excite support. Most apocalyptic terrorists, especially, come from cultures of male vanity. Disgrace them at every opportunity. Done successfully, this both degrades them in the eyes of their followers and supporters, and provokes the terrorist to respond, increasing his vulnerability.

18. If the terrorists hide, strike what they hold dear, using clandestine means and, whenever possible, foreign agents to provoke them to break cover and react. Do not be squeamish. Your enemy is not. Subtlety is not superpower strength but the raw power to do that, which is necessary, is our great advantage. We forget that, while the world may happily chide or accuse us-or complain of our inhumanity-no one can stop us if we maintain our strength of will. Much of the world will complain no matter what we do. Hatred of America is the default position of failed individuals and failing states around the world, in every civilization, and there is nothing we can do to change their minds. We refuse to understand how much of humanity will find excuses for evil, so long as the evil strikes those who are more successful than the apologists themselves. This is as true of American academics, whose eagerness to declare our military efforts a failure is unflagging, or European clerics, who still cannot forgive America’s magnanimity at the end of World War II, as it is unemployed Egyptians or Pakistanis. The psychologically marginalized are at least as dangerous as the physically deprived.

19. Do not allow the terrorists sanctuary in any country, at any time, under any circumstances. Counter-terrorist operations must, above all, be relentless. This does not necessarily mean that military operations will be constantly underway sometimes it will be surveillance efforts, or deception plans, or operations by other agencies. But the overall effort must never pause for breath. We must be faster, more resolute, more resourceful and, ultimately, even more uncompromising than our enemies.

20. Never declare victory. Announce successes and milestones. But never give the terrorists a chance to embarrass you after a public pronouncement that the war is over.

21. Impress upon the minds of terrorists and potential terrorists everywhere, and upon the populations and governments inclined to support them, that American retaliation will be powerful and uncompromising. You will never deter fanatics, but you can frighten those who might support, harbor or attempt to use terrorists for their own ends. Our basic task in the world today is to restore a sense of American power, capabilities and resolve. We must be hard, or we will be struck wherever we are soft. It is folly for charity to precede victory. First we win, then unclench your fist.

22. Do everything possible to make terrorists and their active supporters live in terror themselves. Turn the tide psychologically and practically. While this will not deter hard-core apocalyptic terrorists, it will dissipate their energies as they try to defend themselves and fear will deter many less-committed supporters of terror. Do not be distracted by the baggage of the term assassination. This is a war. The enemy, whether a hijacker or a financier, violates the laws of war by his refusal to wear a uniform and by purposely targeting civilians. He is by definition a war criminal. On our soil, he is either a spy or a saboteur, and not entitled to the protections of the U.S. Constitution. Those who abet terrorists must grow afraid to turn out the lights to go to sleep.

23. Never accept the consensus of the Washington intelligentsia, which looks backward to past failures, not forward to future successes.

24. In dealing with Islamic apocalyptic terrorists, remember that their most cherished symbols are fewer and far more vulnerable than are the West’s. Ultimately, no potential target can be regarded as off-limits when the United States is threatened with mass casualties. Worry less about offending foreign sensibilities and more about protecting Americans.

25. Do not look for answers in recent history, which is still unclear and subject to personal emotion. Begin with the study of the classical world specifically Rome, which is the nearest model to the present-day United States. Mild with subject peoples, to whom they brought the rule of ethical law, the Romans in their rise and at their apogee were implacable with their enemies. The utter destruction of Carthage brought centuries of local peace, while the later empire’s attempts to appease barbarians consistently failed.

There's a WOD for you! Git some.

I wasn't talking about Iraq. You're an occupier, moron, and you should expect resistence. What about the other 3 dozen muslim countries?
It's funny how the fact that you're a soldier somehow gives your views more legitimacy. You gave up your right to think when you joined the armed forces, so your insights are rather tainted. God knows what Rumsfeld has you believing. Fighting for freedom right?
Idiot.

Marine Barracks - Oct. 23, 1983. Beruit Lebanon.
Khobar Towers- June 25, 1996.
Uss Cole- Oct. 12, 2000.

Should we count embassies, since Young marines guard then also( Kenya X2).

Oh, wow, and look all pre 9/11. So this isn't some poor underfed, illiterate muslims who struggled to make their ways to the Madrasas, only to be convinced to fly planes into CIVILIAN Buildings. Don't worry i'm only counting military bases.

Oh, and I out of the military. You'd love me, I fight for the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR.

Being a soldier doesn't give me legitimacy, being a former soldier, an Arab, and a person who shed the yoke of a religion who's ideaolgy oppresses women, prays on the uneducated to convince them suicide is okay, and an openmindedness that would cut your head off even if you think we are oppressors and murderers.

"Gave up my right to think when I joined the armed forces." I hope I get that right back cause I really think you are an ass.

aurelius
Comment #133

I'm amused by how you began your rant with both contradiction and arrogance. I guess this discussion would be an "exercise in futility...utter garbage" to someone who follows by encapsulating the entire Middle East conflict in a paragraph drawing the conclusion that its all just the fault of the US.

So questioning why the West/US should not seek to confront fanaticism makes me a coward? I did specify 'fanatic' not Muslims. You offered up the comments about 'hatred in the Muslim world', 'muslim threat to the west' but I'm the xenophobe?

I actually read the article and didn't start proclaiming how all-knowing I am on the subject but instead posed questions. Do you have any actual thoughts or just more character assasination. If your point is that there is no threat then you're just burying your head in the sand underneath my 'bubble'.

Careful on your parol tonight aurelius...don't get any on the seat.

"Gave up my right to think when I joined the armed forces."??
Wow, that is a profoundly ignorant statement. I'll chock that one up to the heat of the battle...hopefully.

Warning Rant Warning

Gave up my right to think. Obviously never have been a soldier in any form. Nor spent any time researching in any way what it takes.

I spent 3 years as a infantryman in the Canadian Army Reserve. Part of being in the infantry is learning how to maintain and use everything from a C7A1 to a Charlie G. How to drive everything from a jeep to a MLVW. Trained to be a combat medic and drive a 4x4 Amb at high speed XC while while navigating at night.

One can't do all this without the ability to think. When it comes to weapons it takes the ability to think to know how much firepower is required for the situation. Why use bullets when an upper cut will do. Or when not to do anything.

I have had the privlege of working with many Reg Force soldiers who have been deployed to places like Afghanistan and the Former Yugoslavia. Some of those who are in Afghanistan fought in the Battle of Medak in 1993. I look for them everytime they show news from Afghanistan. I worked with one who was killed during the first tour in Afghanistan along with 3 others.

After working with the from 92 to 95 I know one thing that is never recoqnized. These soldiers of the Canadian Army do more for humanitarian aid everyday than 95% of Canada's population will ever do in a lifetime. And that is after they worry about the military requirements of their day.

I think about them every night and hope that they will be ok.
Ducimus- We Lead.

Sorry folks, no rest days for me today!

Warm up - 10 min. stationary bike

Stretch

Deadlifts!!!!
1 x 10 - 155 (on top of 4 inch block)
1 x 10 - 265 (on top of 4 inch block)
1 x 5 - 364
1 x 5 - 384
1 x 5 - 404
1 x 3 - 430
1 x 3 - 450

Assistance work - 2 x 8 one arm dumbell rows 140's
Ab work

The West has:
Too much money
The power to opress entire countries & populations
Too high a demand on the worlds resources
Too many 'educated & ignorant' people
WMD (most if not all)
Saturation of technology
Governments that remote-control their unreal-relaity, and that are beyond account (David Hicks)
Fear, Hate, trigger-finger syndrome, and a superiority complex

The East has:
Too little money
Limited power to fight albeit on a personal level
Resources that are easily exploited
To many 'uneducated & ignorant' people
WMD (Little if any)
Very little tech
Little if any freely 'working' govenments
Fear, envy, hate, and the combined power of a mob mentality.

Millions will die over the next 10 years. Thats just a hunch - but hey - talking about it sure is fulfilling isn't it?

I bought a VW campervan yesterday - a suprise for my 2.5yo daughter. Im going to paint "Scarlet & Daddy's Adventure Bus" on the side and we are going to live it up while we can.

Love to all of you - especially the fighters.

Matt,

#139 made perfect sense to me. I'm glad we still have people with common sense in public positions.

Bottom line: the right to your life, liberty, and pursuit of justice stops with your attempts to infringe on those same rights for anyone else. Do that, and you're in the cold. That is justice, pure and simple.

Ok, I'm out for real. I'm not Catholic, but I'm a sympathizer.

Ohh...how could I forget:

Religion is just a bullshit excuse.

Amen.

My fave:

"I can come here and say what I want, including that I don't like reading politics here and YOU, on the other hand, can't say I shouldn't do that."

This reminds me of law school and the free speech absolutists: free speech means dissent only and (evidently) doesn't include the right to (a) support the majority or (b) criticise the dissenter on any number of grounds, including that (1) reasoning is specious, (2) facts are incorrect, (3) or this isn't the proper time/place/venue for those remarks.

If you do that you are (according to #75) "a moron" or a list of other epithets. I don't think I've attacked anyone personally. And notwithstanding being called a moron, I stand by the comment that it's rude to come into someone else's house and tell them the artwork on the walls sucks. See, I can say that, too? I have the same right to say "leave if you don't like it" as you do to criticize. The Vietnam era example is clever, but inapt. I didn't say leave the country. I pointed out that showing up here on someone else's bandwidth and then criticising them for the content is bad manners and if it's so bothersome, then don't come!
I don't want anyone to leave the country. Hell, I don't even want you to leave the site. Come! Participate. Add something to the discussion. But if it's so displeasing to you, then don't come on those days. It's called "free choice" and I don't think that's un-American. (And there's a strong argument that during Vietnam saying "leave if you don't like it" is no less American than saying "hell no we won't go!" Why is one - dissent- only entitled to being called "american"?)
Finally, I don't like how these political discussion denigrate into name-calling, either --but they don't have to. They do so only because people resort to name-calling over reasoned debate. That's what makes these days rough. I may very well make this my last rest day post. Probably. What I won't do is have the bad manners to tell Coach that he shouldn't have these on HIS site on HIS dime, no matter that he calls the site CrossFit. He could call it "glockenshpiel" (I love that word) and it wouldn't change that.

To: Matt McCartney and Gentle Friends
Re: Comment 139 Excellent reference. Thank you for it.
Re: Comment 144 I fear you are wasting your time. Anyone one posting as "Aurelius", but using "JohnnyLawless" as an e-mail name can do no more than name calling.

Sean G:

Sorry, but you don't get an opt out on rest days. You are part of the civil discourse crew.

Chris M (#145):

Canadian soliders are unsung heroes in too many places, but not at CrossFit.

Wow!

Hey, when do we get to work out?

Mike #70: What is a trained environmental scientist anyway? Is that something like a subspecialty of a trained political scientist? I suppose you could actually be a physicist, since almost no one is actually teaching science literacy today.

I’m sure there are plenty of right wingers who would repeat what you attribute to them, and they would be quite wrong. Now, there certainly is a global warming myth of the left, but it’s called Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW), not global warming (GW). GW qualifies as a fact (a measurement comparable to a standard). It has been on going for about 80,000 years.

AGW is a theory based on Global Climate Models (GCMs) and a speculation drawn from an analogy with the climate of Venus. AGW is promoted for two dominant reasons: by operators of GCM to increase their government grants, and by international socialists to exert some control over the US and its hated capitalist successes.

The GCMs are less than useless – they’re dangerous. The operators picked up on the Venus greenhouse gas analogy and tried to make their GCMs predict the environmental apocalypse caused by CO2 and methane. The first attempts were off the wall. The GCMs that produced any kind of climate-like results at all were unstable. A little extra GH gas, and they did nothing or went ape. It took years for unscrupulous operators to fine tune them to produce a result worthy of hysteria.

Regardless, GCMs can’t predict climate.

Here is the state of affairs with GCMs in recent years. The most gross features of the climate, the handful of known major ice ages, are not reproducible by the models. Undaunted, the operators continue to urge that they can predict fractions of a degree rises caused by manmade CO2. They can predict climate change only in the least significant figures.

The GCMs don’t even appear to use the right parameters to predict the earth’s climate. They don’t predict solar output. The GCMs don’t model the cloud cover, which filters and reflects the sun’s radiation. They don’t predict ocean absorption or its distribution of the heat. They don’t predict the great deep ocean currents that distribute the heat and randomly switch from one state to another. They can’t predict the formation of a single cyclone, the great heat exchange engine between the ocean and the atmosphere. Of course, they can’t predict volcanic activity, especially from supervolcanoes, so they miss that source of gasses. And at the same time they don’t model atmospheric water, the overwhelmingly dominant greenhouse gas that trivializes the imaginary CO2 heat trap.

But we don’t have to take into account but one of those shortcomings in GCMs to demote the theory of AGW to a conjecture: the weakest of scientific theories. That flaw is that the GCMs cannot reproduce the known climate history. A scientific model must reproduce the known results, to a known accuracy, in its domain before the scientist can claim any predictive power for it. Until the GCMs can do that, the notion that man can change his climate by infusing a greenhouse gas is no better than a conjecture. Yet man better learn how to do just that before we start down the road to the next ice age, barring a supervolcano getting us first.

Or the libs getting us even before that.

For Tristram @ 35, let’s not over-generalize, but I loved your “Intelligent Design, for Chirst’s Sake”. Some Republicans indeed espouse Intelligent Design, but they are heading to Pat Robertson’s diminuendo of political oblivion. The nuts on the Dover Area School Board got drubbed out of court first, then out of office. That should silence a lot more of them. Republicans oust their miscreants; Democrats honor theirs: Susan Estrich.

As for stem cell research, Bush stands all but alone with his theocratic convictions. His position even over-stresses the loyalty of his own Senate leader. Stem cell research will continue apace, just without federal funding. And for a good secular conservative, that’s the best of all worlds.

But Global Warming? The Republicans are brilliant! I thought they were going to cave on that Kyoto nonsense. Which staff man put this bug in W’s ear? Is it a previously unknown spark of scientific literacy? Or just a well deserved suspicion of leftist programs? Regardless, the toast fell jelly side up on this one.

As I read this "diatribe tonight I first have to say to "Tristan that by your almost
'color full language it is easy to tell your a liberal" now to me that in its self is okay its your political choice and in this great country choice is what has been fought for since the day of george washington but your use of the almost f word to make a point makes me glad that as a conservative I don't have to use "half expletives" to say that I can be "American " and conserative,and give others there choices as well.I can say liberal and not think it as a bad thing just another americans idea on how they see there world.As for me, by Gods good grace my "glass is always half "FULL!.So I say to you and all others out there that see right" or wrong" take a step back and see if you can just see fellow country men with different beliefs.And realize that this is exactly why there is so much hate and war because no one can accept the deferences in each other.

Ross Hunt,

Thanks for saying that my question needs to be answered. I'll do my best to answer yours.

My understanding is that the term "multiculturalism" was created in the 1970s and maybe in Canada. It was primarily an attempt to provide a framework through which immigrants can be encouraged to integrate by making them feel less threatened that they would have to give up their own cultures. The general idea is 'we will respect you, no matter who you are, IF you respect others.' There have been studies in Canada, where 'multiculturalism' is actually part of their constitution if I'm not mistaken, showing that the governmental effort has measurably helped to make newcomers integreate more quickly, compared to the time before the multiculturalism programs were put in place.

But of course the term has become a nasty buzzword and the concept has been much debated and critiqued by both the left and the right ... by radical feminists and by minorities who call it ghettoization as well as conservatives of both the Ayn Rand and the Pat Buchanan ilk.

All the words,'integration' assimilation' 'toleration' and 'multiculturalism' have unfortunately become lightning rods, so maybe I shouldn't have used them.

But what the hell else should I call my desire to reassure Muslims that we have nothing against religion per se, but they have to play by our rules and become part of our society and respect other cultures and other religions if they live here?

That is what I meant by multiculturalism. If you have better word for it, please tell me. If you think it is a bad idea, tell me why.

The options as I see them are, fascism; monoculturalism of the Old Europe variety, where they invite in the guest workers and then let them live as third-class citizens; the 'melting pot' where everyone just fights it out among themselves; or closing the borders.

Multiculturalism seems better than those options. But I repeat my request, tell me what you think we as a nation should do.

You made another statement, which I take as a question: "I am not aware of any convincing argument for the principle that diversity of culture is a good thing."

Diversity of culture may or may not be good but it is a fact of life. So deal with it. Personally, I prefer it. I've lived in monocultural places and I've lived in multicultural places and I prefer the latter. The food is better. There's more variety of things to see and hear and do. Diversity is fun. Variety is the spice of life. America is the original melting pot.

As they say, love it or leave it. Sometimes I feel like conservatives are saying they love America, just not the people in it.

Comment #49 - brandt wrote:
"Muslims are presently being vilified in the same manner that Jews were represented in anti-semitic literature throughout the ages, (not limited to the Third Reich)."

Funny, I don't recall Jews going around kidnapping and beheading people nor hearing of Hassidic Jews blowing up the Synagogues of Reform Jews.

As for the Muslim extremists bent on exterminating the West:

Kill them all.

Is that clear enough?

TimW- You never heard about the Killer Jews because we (okay, half of me) are that good.

Ron Nelson- Aw, shucks.

-D.

Pack workout at tonights BX class
21-18-15-12-9-6-3
Burpees
Sit-ups
Push Press (45#)

28:10
Very challenging workout by Jason!

Opinions are like #$%%#$ - everyone has one, AND MOST OF THEM STINK. I appreciate the Rest Day post, since it is easy to identify the stench.

Awesome picture- 320lb vert lift. I am not too familiar with Mr. Castelvecchi, is he a CrossFit regular?

from a self-professed right-wing christian male (the arch-villian of both conservative and liberal posters):
1) bush was well liked at the beginning of the war, i personally think it was embarassment at what was reported in the popular media that turned the public against him (not necessarily the ground truth here in iraq)
2) idiot? gave up my right to think when i donned a uniform? ok
3) millions will die in the next ten years-probably, that's what happens to everyone eventually
4) a b.s. excuse? for what?
5) totally agree with sinebad (#141)
6) moral relativism: the preacher curl of philosophical ideologies: a dead end movement that has limited practical application other than to make the practicioner look good
sorry for the late post-the inability to think cramps my style

cfwu x 3 rds +push-ups -pu's
bike 10 miles
bench press 225x2,275x2,295x2,305x2,315x1,335x1
form work on deadlift and power clean

Crossfit is an analog for the tenet at the very core of these debates.

Results come only from very hard work and egoless committment to the process. It is difficult work to destroy your sense of self-importance and go again.

These timely issuse of debate are no easier than 10 rounds of Fran for time. So, show me an better ethos than the likes of Crossfit, one that says solve this very difficult physical problem every day.

Crossfit is the name of my religion.
Disicplined suffering is my faith.
Where else can I find as many people that understand me?

Kelly Starrett

#155 Jeff Glassman: I would propose that a trained environmental scientist is a scientist who has received formal professional training from accredited programs in any of the various fields of science or engineering such as environmental science, physics, chemistry, paleoecology, etc., that deal with physical changes in planetary environments, and who conduct peer-reviewed research in any of these cognate fields. Question, did you ask your question as a disengenious continuation of the very thinly-veiled anti-intellectualism that seem to inform many of your posts?

You do bring up what appear to be on the surface some very interesting critisms of climate change models. You obviously get your information from somewhere. Care to site some sources so that we can all examine them and compare them to other sources on the same subject so that we don't have to take your word for it? Especially since I don't really have a good understanding of how you came to be such an expert on such a wide variety of subjects. Thanks.

That 320-pound lift is quite impressive. But I don't know if that's the smartest thing to do in Chucks. Maybe that makes it more impressive.

45lb.'s
17+2hc's

damn dude

I dig that pic!! that is some serious inspiration and those forearms look like bowling pins!!

--Z--

3) millions will die in the next ten years-probably, that's what happens to everyone eventually....ahh duh....you know what I meant
4) a b.s. excuse? for what?...opressing others and asertion af many of the other imbalances I listed...yes a B.S. excuse used by the coerced

Jimmy Jam #167 ...

I'm not convinced a pair of cross-trainers or running shoes would offer more protection if dropped that stack on his piggies. As for providing a decent shoe in which to lift heavy things, the Chucks are a great choice. I won't lift in anything but something similarly flat-bottomed ... especially when what I'm lifting s heavy.

Click here for more: http://www.denverback.com/June_Foot.htm

rocky,

In light of your account, I don't think that you really needed to add 'multicultaralism' to 'tolerance;' at least, 'tolerance' as I understand it encompasses all the principles that you attribute to multiculturalism in your latter post.

It seems to me that the term mulitculturalism is frequently used to suggest that no culture is better than any other; in other words, mulplicity of cultures is spoken of as if it indicated or was connected to equal value of cultures (whatever that might mean). It is now quite clear that you don't endorse this position.

I like a multiplicity of cultures, too; if my parents had stayed in their home states and their states had to stuck to their culture, I'd be living off grits right now. Can't stand grits. Less frivolously, diversity of culture seems at least some times to offer a greater opportunity for thought.

I wonder about the distinction between the 'melting pot' and 'multiculturalism,' though. No one wants to see racial and religious violence increase in our nation. But melting pots don't just simmer down... you have to pot a lid on them. If multiculturalism (as in the profession of the 'equal value' of cultures) is that lid, then I think one has to weigh the value of the function the lid serves with the side effects it produces, and ask the question of whether they might not be a better lid to place on the violence that emerges from diversity without stifling the debate that emerges from diversity by making it a taboo to discuss cultures as higher and lower. The advent of Multiculturalism seems to have been accompanied by the undeseriable coagulation of all political positions into two lukewarm political parties of unimpressive integrity. I heartily endorse the constitution of our nation, but I would like to discover ways to increase diversity of political opinion and expression so as to elevate the discourse regarding the development of that constitution.

Mike #166

This is a web site for the exchange of ideas, not credentials. However, you did rely on being a “trained environmental scientist” in your post #70 to justify your reliance on a couple of documents you, too, chose not to quote. (Beware those alleged DoD leaks. Three such things juat recently turned out to be frauds.) In your response #166, you don’t say what makes you a TES, but suggest instead a recipe for such persons. Oh, well!

I’m a bit reluctant to clutter this web site with too much petty stuff, off topic in the first place, and further tangential to the ideas. This topic is nearly defunct, so this lengthy reply is for the archives.

But I think Coach will forgive me. You trot out the banner of peer review, and CrossFit has been subjected to just that kind of criticism. So here are some ideas, not citations, for what’s amiss with peer review.

Every new idea worth a fig was first one man’s. The hallmarks of great science (e.g., Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Einstein) sit at the top of the heap. Those scientists suffered academic assaults, from mild to extreme, but today would be unable to publish their great achievements except on the internet.

Pardon the cliché, but peer review is the last bastion of unfulfilled academics, outright frauds, and the addled. It is the last because of the free thought made possible by the internet. It is a bastion because the self-proclaimed keepers of the temples have convinced too many people that peer review is an element of science. It is – in their domain of paper walls and to the scientifically illiterate.

A simple thought experiment about how the great ideas in science came to pass, starting with a single brain, should cause you to suspect your reliance on peer review. If that is not sufficient, I suggest you try to publish an article on astrology in one of its peer reviewed journals. Or consider the claims that Intelligent Design is supported by peer review. And I recommend to all, consider Anthropogenic Global Warming. These peer reviewed specialties range from nonsense to junk science.

Peer review and science are uncorrelated.

Still not convinced? I commend to you Alan Sokol’s peer-reviewed publication Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity. This is great fun, known as the Sokol Affair.

Need more? Think, as opposed to counting citations, about the technical accomplishments of industry. The underlying ideas are often basic science. Far from being peer reviewed, the new ideas are held as trade secrets. Sometimes industry will forego the protection of patents just for secrecy’s sake. A classic example from the more academic side is Watson & Crick’s great paper on the structure of DNA -- not peer reviewed.

Science is not advanced by committees and editorial review boards. Voting is no part of science. It is not governed by consensus. Peer review is a criterion for publication in closely held, protective journals, not for science.

And anti-intellectualism? Really!? Disingenuous? I confess to being anti-junk science. To the Mike Muellers, that appears to qualify me on both counts.

Hey, Mike M. #166!

A post script to my last: If you want to research what I have said about the Global Climate Models, AGW, science, etc., ask any trained environmental scientist.

Also, feel free to quote me!

Thanks,

Ross Hunt,

Thanks again your thoughts. Hey, I've got some former grits eaters in my roots as well.

Perhaps some of the semantic disagreement about the meaning of 'multiculturalism' is caused by the belief among those who promote it that government should not involve itself in decisions about which culture is better. That's not the same as saying that no culture is better. To say that all cultures deserve respect as long as they respect each other and obey the law is not the same as saying that all cultures are equal no matter what the hell their members do or don't do. And it shouldn't mean that only people in the majority culture need to hide their pride.

I think 'multiculturalism' has become sort of a boogey-man, blamed for all of the evils of modern man. That's a bit simplistic, to say the very least. The term gets intentionally twisted I think and used as a weapon against well-meaning folks, but no legitimate alternative is ever offered as far as I can tell. I'm not saying that you do this, but there's no doubt that for some people disparagement of multiculturalism has become code for 'let's get rid of the immigrants.'

I, like you, would like to increase diversity of political opinion rather than stifle it. One first step may be a general truce in the use of buzzwords. Not sure how to accomplish that, except to try to be more conscious about how they are used and how they become buzzwords in the first place. I'm perfectly willing to do away with the term multiculturalism. It's just a word and maybe it has gained too much baggage.

But taking the terminology used by your opponent and deliberately distorting it so thay can't use it as originally intended should be declared a foul.