February 5, 2006
Eva T, 70 pound weighted pull-up.
"Public Health Pot Shots", from Reason Magazine.
Posted by lauren at February 5, 2006 5:46 PM
Read and discuss in comments.
Where's Ediddy of to that he won't be able to access CF for a month or two? I had a look for Pensacola in Google and it seems to be in Florida. I was expecting it to be in deepest darkest Madagascar or something.
Back when I was in the boat unit we called palms inward chin ups "curls for the girls," but that didn't involve most likely over half your body weight in dumb bells added in, Wow, I'm just going to quit now put on some Spandex and go back to my Nautilus and Tae Bo. That's amazing.
Nope, just CrossFit and food. If you'll pay for the testing we'll give the blood/urine. That's SOP/ROE for all our athletes.
Thanks for the compliment. Seems impossible doesn't it?
Ahh, rest day...back to the Guiness.
The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show..and see if she likes the goods. (Ron Burgandy)
I love the comment about steroids not being allowed in Coach's athletes. Everyday another reason to stick around.
I'm confused re: comments #4 & 6 -- can you direct me to the original discussion?
Also, the powerlifting, deadlift champion, fire fighting female captain, who is also the owner of the gym that we go to, game me a HUGE complement on my HSPU's. While I tried to be modest, she said, "You don't see any one else around here doing 'em, do you?"
"gave me a HUGE..."
Shouldn't hit the wine before posting ;-}
And, of course, it's only Eva (well, really my husband, Eric) that keeps me motivated. Eric motivates me, Eva inspires me!
Marianne, earlier today Cranky posted as comment #1. It simply stated "roids?". I don't know why it disappeared except that I trust the judgement of the moderators. Maybe the guy was jealous that Eva could pull ups with a 70 lb dumbell and he couldn't!
sheesh! i missed the boat on that one, I thought he meant hemorrhoids.... when I read his post I thought, " whew that WAS hard, thank god I didn't get one of those! "
Ah, thanks for the clarity.
I pulled the post down since "Cranky" doesn't have the honesty to use his real name or a valid email address when questioning Eva's achievements. Back up now at Coach's request.
here we go steelers here we go
So here's a question in regard to Saturday's workout and Eva's picture.
Is there a rough rule of thumb that if you can do a weighted pull-up with XX lbs of weight, then you should be able to do a muscle up? (i.e., If you can do a weighted pull-up with 50lbs, then you should be able to vs. if you can only do your body weight then obviously you wouldn't)
I'm curious how close or far I'm away to being able to accomplish a muscle up.
Thanks in advance!
your a stud Eva.
i have not done the WOD for 3 weeks as i hurt my back, its nearly 100% now so i thought i would see if i could still do a muscle up and got a PR of 6 muscle ups, not sure how that works but i'll take it
Guys The greatest Anabolic is quality food
First, alright, nidan in judo and aikido, Rugby, boxing, and the sweet little girl with the 70 lb. db scares the hell out of me. I admit it.
Second, the "Reason" article stands for the proposition that the liberals will lie. Yeah, and? They lie whenever it suits them. They lie about gun ownership because they love big government and the Second Amendment is the final stop to the government taking over every single aspect of our lives. They do not trust the people, because they know better than we do and so they, the Drs., the Ph.d's, etc. need to be the ones in charge so they can control everything to make everything better for everyone. And they really, really mean it all for the best for everyone. They promise.
I lost interest long ago when I found out that their statistics on gunshot related injuries in the home included the suicides.
However, I was puzzled by the article's statement that the handgun was safer than a rifle or shotgun. Whoever wrote that simply does not know what they are talking about. The safest weapon for home defense is the pump action shotgun loaded with #4 shot, no round chambered, in a 410 gauge short barrel. The sound of the slide chambering a shell will almost certainly send an intruder running. No. 4 shot has plenty of stopping power without over penetration and the short barrel 410 is very managable in small areas such as halls or doorways. The shotgun is as simple or more simple to operate safely than a handgun. Finally, have you tried to hit anything with a handgun immediately after being awakened? I saw a videotape of a range officer at the Los Angeles police range try it. He couldn't.
The anti-gun lobby is a powerfull force, as are most lobbies.
As a fire educator i often put a (simulated) hand gun and a lighter on the table and ask parents which is more dangerous?
The truth is the lighter by a wide margine.
An even more interesting fact is that Drowning is the leading cause of death for 1-4 year olds and the second leading cause for 1-14 year olds. Too bad the monies spent by the anti-gun lobby doesn't pay for fire and drowning prevention measures. Come to think about it too bad the monies spent by the pro-gun lobbies don't either.
It's amazing any of us make it to adulthood!
Ha! Well done Eva! The pullups were great too! Buffed and a sense of humor -apparently Crossfit doesn't just have great workouts, but great ladies as well.
Liddell in 1:28 of round 2!!!!
Powered by CF!!!
Eva- woot. Pretty darn cool.
As for the article, I've gotta say it seems to be a case of much ado about nothing. Of course health care workers are going, as a group, to not be big gun fans- they don't deal with constitutional debate or sporting applications or the vagaries of self-defense- they deal with the nasty, horrible holes they make in the people they are sworn to heal. One cannot fault them for that. In a nation with lots of guns, the most gun deaths of a developed nation, it would make sense for a public health organization to give a crap, and that takes money. That's how it should be- the 2nd Amendment makes guns a relative unique element of American public health, and those that steward it should be interested. And look at what the results are going to look like- if guns are around, people will get killed with guns. Whether the right people or wrong people were killed, or they would have been killed anyways, or whether more or less people are killed on average are endlessly debateable, and have been spliced, replayed, and reexamined in nearly endless variations- none of which deal with the CDC's concern- the fact that guns are involved in killing people. And if the results of those studies don't look good for gun supporters, of course the results will appear in sources friendly to gun control aficiandos.
Like I said, I don't see the cause for suprise, or uproar. Bias is associated with viewpoint, and the folks involved have especially bloody ones that while may be arguable, cannot be denied.
Re: The article. You mean that people will construe the truth to better serve their needs!Especially for funding? Is this new?
Re: The best weapon for home or self-defense. The human mind!
Well that ruins the ending for me! Oh well, I guess it was a bit naive of me to think I would be able to avoid finding out the results of Liddell-Couture 3 until I download the fight... I couldn't miss the Edmonton Oilers game for only a half decent UFC card, especially when they've raised the PPV prices.
Buentello 2:27 into the 2nd round!! More CF juice, please!
Eva, awesome lift. I'm even more impressed because thats the ammount I managed weighing in at 190.
Eva T - you go girl!
As for the article, as stated above, skewing the facts to get more money in order to skew the facts more so you can get your way is nothing new. It is actually becoming an epidemic in this country. Based on the below, not only do we need to look at hand guns, but autos surely need to be outlawed, gravity is still a problem, don't call it poison for no reason, stay out of the water if you can't swim (and be a responsible parent), don't play with matches, and firearms is next, clorox + ammonia = bad, and lastly medical malpractice (just under guns, maybe we should outlaw doctors?). As cliche as it sounds, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Leave my gun alone.
Accidental Firearms-Related Deaths Compared to Other Causes of Accidental
1. Motor vehicles: 43,200 deaths
2. Falls: 14,900 deaths
3. Poisoning by solids or liquids: 8,600 deaths
4. Drowning: 4,000 deaths
5. Fires, burns and related deaths: 3,700 deaths
6. Suffocation by swallowing object: 3,300 deaths
7. Firearms-related: 1,500 deaths
8. Poisoning by gases and vapors: 700 deaths
9. All other causes (including medical "misadventures"): 13,900
Total deaths: 93,800
(Source: National Safety Council's 1998 Accident Facts)
Great workout today
25lbs weighted pull ups
and did fridays too 18:10, assisted HSPU, the remainder as Rx's broken and ugly.
ET, that was a wonderful thing to witness! There was a time that I was asked weekly if I was using roids given my stature and the weights I was lifting. It was always a complement. You do all us CrossFitters proud.
As did the Iceman this evening, congratulations Chuck!
Very impressive Eva T.
LETS GO HAWKS! LETS GO HAWKS!
LETS GO HAWKS! LETS GO HAWKS!
Eva, nice job.
A subject I know well, having worked for RKBA for nearly a decade now.
It's worse than the article lets on, even. Kellerman was laughed off the stage when he refused to cite his work and basically just said "because that's what I said." His refusal to turn over his work for peer review is telling, indeed.
Additionally, his 'surveys' also included counting those folks who didn't live at the home at all: Cops chase bad guy to your front yard. He turns, cops kill him.
"Ms. Homeowner, I know you were asleep upstairs when all this happened, but do you have a gun in the home for self-protection?"
BAM, add another count to his "guns in the home are 43 times more likely...."
yes, his was this kind of work.
Not to flame too much, but dude, anyone who has been around firearms for any length of time is smirking right now.
A .410 with #4 shot? is that birdshot or buck-shot? #4 birdshot is about a .13 caliber, while #4 buckshot is .25 caliber. At most with buckshot, you get about 5 pellets. And shotguns are NOT spray-and-hit as in the movies.
I am not denigrating a shotgun as a defense weapon. Far from it. One just needs to understand it's capabilities and limitations...including the "racking a shotgun will cause criminals to crap their pants" belief. Short of some mid-teen juvies breaking into a home for shits=and-grins, that belief is likely to cause more pain than protection.
Strong work, Eva.
I can't believe that clown said that? Obviously, someone who has not been around here enough to see the kinds of efforts (and numbers) our gals put in on a regular basis.
You're awesome, like a ninja. A ninja who spends years training in solitude, sparring in the snow and mastering the many deadly arts associated with the ninja way of life. At the completion of your training, you sell your skills as a quiet and deadly assassin. Your calling card becomes single-handedly burning down entire villages after completing your deadly missions; earning you the nickname "Hajumi," which literally translates into "one who burns villages down because she just feels like it and will totally own you if you try to pursuade her to do otherwise." You make a comfortable living in your trade of killing, destroying and torching but we all know the truth...
You would do it for free.
I'll have what she's having.
Maybe roids is an acronym for mr cranky...
R - random
O - offensive
I - insult
D - dealing
s - spineless
? - nothing
There is a name for people like mr cranky in Australia...(maybe same in USA)... for people who hit and hide....
Eva....you should write "cranky" on that bell....use it as fuel :)
with me...?? cheers
cant say Ive ever thought about blokes before...but hey...any port in a storm
i'm neither an advocate for nor opposed to gun ownership. i really don't know a whole lot about the subject. i do have to wonder about how gun control really falls into the scope of cdc research (do they spend as much money on any 'epidemic' that actually is a disease? i don't know).
at any rate, it seems to me that both sides twist their argument a bit. there are numerous times in this article that the authors quote people who accuse keller of poor academic and scientific research, which is a bit misleading.
one cannot apply the normal standards of scientific scrutiny to keller's findings because he can never replicate the conditions that contributed to the data he quotes. he is forced to try and isolate specific factors in order to make sense of it all. in doing so he will only be able to make correlations of specific factors.
in other words, he is forced to make a judgement as to what the truly relevant data is and frame his argument from there. he cannot truly use the scientific method but at the same time cannot be held to the same rigorous scrutiny as a normal scientist. his argument is reduced to a persuasive ideological one.
so i cannot fault keller for his methods or findings. he is trying to make the best with what he has. his argument can neither be conclusively proven nor refuted.
that said, here is the question i ask myself when making this judgement: if i were a criminal, would i be more likely to attack someone knowing they didn't carry a gun, or never being sure if the intended victim had a gun or not? answer that question then make your judgement.
oh yeah, no 70 lb weighted pull-up for me. team tikrit took an extra rest day. ha!
Here we go Steelers, here we go!!!
Re: gun control
Didn't read the article (yet). To be honest, it's not going to change my view. My opinion (which was very pro-"control") was changed 180 degrees and set in stone when I spent ~15 minutes on a highway with a nutcase following me while waving a gun out his window...yes, threatening me. Why? He didn't like my passing technique.
Initially I laughed it off, picked up my cellphone and called the cops. It became very unfunny when I was told by both local dispatch AND highway patrol dispatch that they couldn't send anyone out...I'd have to (1) get his license plate number and (2) come in and file a report (I swear on my life I'm not kidding). It became even more unfunny when I realized that if the nutcase in question were to run me off the road I'd probably be shot.
To solve my immediate problem I sped up to ~130 and took off (his 4x4 was not going to hang). When I got home I immediately registered for the required classes to obtain my carry permit. Been carrying ever since.
Those of you who are pro-"control" (which, by the way, we do have) or anti-gun...I understand and respect your arguments. In a "perfect world" I'd still agree with them and support you. But we don't live in that world. I'd strongly encourage you to read the many court (including US Supreme Court) decisions which hold that the police have absolutely no duty to protect you. In fact...I'll do the Googling for you:
That link describes several cases and has a half-page list of others. Bottom line...your safety and that of your family is entirely in your hands.
Regarding Ediddy, if he is going to Pensacola and he is not going to have internet or liberty for awhile my guess is that he is attending Naval Officer Candidate School there. And while he won't be in Madagascar, his Marine Drill Instructor will make him wish he was. And for anyone that was looking for Pensacola on a map its in the pan handle of Florida, almost in Alabama, and the area is home to some of the whitest beaches in the world and the majority of Navy and Marine Corps flight training.
Good Luck and Semper Fi
This gun control discussion goes back to that old saw,
"With enough funding, you can get studies to prove any damn thing you want."
Both sides are horribly guilty of using creative 'science' to manipulate a highly emotional topic.
Gun control which really means ban won't work. Canada has had hand gun restrictions in place since the 1930's. Hasn't stopped anything.
Up here the city of Toronto used the same type of number fudging as others have mentioned here to justify their gun position.
So now we have a Dog breed ban and courtesy of our recently ousted PM a handgun ban that was already in place. Do you think I feel safer?
Liberals lie about guns? I'm so shocked you can knock me over with a feather.
Just kidding, it's not really news that liberals lie about guns or anything else. Don't believe it? Then google "Michael Bellesiles", tenured Emory Univ Professor, award winning liar, and creator false data supporting his published work in support of gun control. Among other things this liar made the mistake of citing non existent pre-earthquake probate records from San Francisco.
Or look here "An Army of Gun Lies"
Scott U, I stand corrected. Agreed the best weapon is the one between your ears.
Tim W., my appologies. Poor typing late at night. I meant #6 birdshot. Try it. Take one to the range, put the target at the distance of the longest room or hallway in your home, and see what the perpetrator would look like after being hit at close range with birdshot. Then think about the lack of penetration into other rooms/apartments. And I did not say "crap their pants". I said "run away". Thieves are not in your house for a stand up gun fight.
Incidentally, I have 35 years handling firearms of all kinds, including 4 years as a weapons sergent on a Special Forces "A" team, and have taught the legal aspects of the use of deadly force in self-protection classes given by local law enforcement officers through area gun dealers. I spent 15 years as local municipal judge and qualified annually with my police officers, always firing in the high 90s percentile.
Further,if you can't hit a man sized target with 5 pellets inside a room, you don't need to have a gun.
Dude, smirk all you want to.
Just recalled something that is similar to the gun ban. Learned this from a teacher.
During WWII the Japanese on the island of Okinawa where fed up with the Okinawan's attacking them with knives and such. So banned and confiscated them.
They thought that the Okinawans would do nothing now that they had no sharp blades to attack with. They where wrong. The Okinawans used their martial arts to get the Japanese.
Lesson that all can learn is that remove the gun I'll use a knife, remove the knife I'll use a bat,and so on.
What is needed is people control not gun control.When I say people control is to deal with get those who are evil doers with guns.
hey...looks like some of the heaviest DB PUs yesterday & today were done by EVA & KELLY... Congratulations...ladies... as a father of two daughters I love it ...keep up the inspirational work!
I agree. If it wasn't guns, it'd be crossbows, if it wasn't crossbows it'd be bow and arrows and if it wasn't a bow and arrow it would be a stone. Killing is natural, and in a country such as America where there is such a diversity of people, shit is bound to happen. The melting pot boiled over and spilled out poverty and crime.
Very simply put, i will murder with extreme prejudice anyone who physically attemps to come into my house without my consent. Be it crackheads or US military, they'd both die equally as bloody on my door step.
Awesome job Eva!
Laws...including gun control laws, only effect those that are not inclined to break them in the first place. A criminal by definition is a person who does not concern himself if a particular activity is illegal or not before partaking in that activity. I don't think we need to throw a load of taxpayer money at "studies" to figure that out.
As far as accidental deaths...it appears to me that if we can throw a lot of money into teaching our children how to don condoms among other things; we can spend a little more time and money educating them about firearms safety.
With that said, I think it's only fair to state that I am a police officer. Everyday I have to deal with the fact that some of the people I deal with may be armed, with intent to harm me. MattG is 100% correct; the safety of you and yours is in your hands, myself included. Is this responsibility a burden to some? Perhaps, but just think of the alternative. Yeah there may be relatively low gun crimes/deaths in other countries...but I think I'll stay right where I am;)
RE #15 - Mike -
No rule of thumb (also known as Thumb's Rule) that I know of regarding weighted pull-ups transfering to muscle-ups. I would quickly say no, however - I've never seen someone with any number of pull-ups with any amount of additional weight (if any) unable to do a muscle up because they lacked pull - it's invariably because they lack either the pressing strength from a very deep ring dip and/or--most commonly--don't yet have the technique developed for transitioning from under to over the rings.
Bottom line - if a muscle-up is your goal, don't worry about weighted pull-ups. Work ring dips (hands in the armpits - deep as possible) and practice the transition - One way that seems to work pretty well is to set up rings a few feet off the ground, start seated with your heals on the ground, and go through the motions of a muscle-up (most of your weight will be on your legs) - practice that transition repeatedly. When it's solid, raise the rings and do it.
Dang Eva! Your not only super strong you look awesome too. Keep it up.
All this talk of the concept of gun control without a real definition. When it really is a ban.
Well I learned gun control in 93 courtesy of the Canadian Army. As told to me by a Master Corporal.
Gun control is putting your rounds on the target you are aiming at no where else. It is knowing when to shoot and not to shoot because if you do so indescriminatly you waste ammunition. It is knowing that sometimes not shooting is the better option as it will draw attention you do not want. Gun control is about knowing when to use force and how much is required because all it might take is a simple right hook.
Good article- and one that strikes close to home for me. I will read it a few more times so that I can better deconstruct it, but the the first two passes reminded me of the old saw:
"Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."
Folks, be careful of those who use "science" to advance their agendas. Take the time to understand the underlying assumptions applied to the reduction of data. Truly critical thinking is key to avoid being fooled by charlatans dressed in lab coats.
Oops, I almost forgat:
You go, Eva T. You inspire us all.
GregEverett Comment #55
Thanks for that tip, Greg. I had been wondering how to get started on the muscle ups.
Tim W. Comment 33 and mine #50
I did not mean to flame too much either. If you have a best home defense weapon, I would be interested in your opinion.
I think education is the main solution. For both the parents and the children.
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms...." - Adolf Hitler, on a law passed in 1938
The last industrialized culture with complete gun control was Germany in the 1930s.
I have seen a lot of firearm deaths, I can't think of one in which the shooter legally owned the gun. Most of the victims of firearm deaths (I've investigated) have been criminals, although the shooters rarely hit who they are aiming at and sometimes a kid is in the wrong place / wrong time. Almost every intentional homicide of a "civilian" (an innocent victim) has been through other means: stabbing, strangulation, blunt trauma, etc. Just my observations as an, urban area, detective.
Another issue with Bellesiles is his famous "my dog ate my homework" defense. When asked to 'show his work', he claimed that a house flood had destroyed all his notes.
Linc - absolutely both sides futz with the numbers. However it boils down to a single issue with me: the right to do/use whatever to protect myself or my family. Self-defense is a natural right. The weak will always be preyed upon by the strong. It's cliché, but God made Man and Sam Colt made them equal.
My biggest beef with anti-gun folks is that while I've never tried to force them to own a gun, they have no problem trying to prevent me or my wife from having or carrying one.
Walt - since I "started it", I took no umbrage to your response. I admit I was overly harsh, esp. w/o knowing any of your credentials. I've been shooting for over 30 years, am an instructor, but not a BTDT guy.
IMO, there isn't any "best" home defense gun. There are MANY variables involved, including one's home (apartment, city home, rural dwelling, etc.), training level, user issues (disabilities, etc.).
One person's 12 guage slug gun may be completely inappropriate for an apartment dwelling person with no practical firearms training, but may be too little for someone in a rural area known for tweaker labs, where a 7.62x51 FAL/CETME/G3 may be more appropriate.
Recent tests have shown that the 5.56 cartridge has lower penetration in your typical sheetrock home than the standard 9mm round, which is one reason that many SWAT/TOU/SOT/ teams are moving toward M4-style carbines from their MP5 or other 9mm based entry guns.
Of course, to Linc's point, this could be fudged numbers from gun manufacturer's looking to sell more M4s/CAR-15 since the 9mm carbines are so darn expensive (esp. magazines). :)
I've carried everything from a .25 to a .45ACP, depending on circumstances. My current carry weapon is a 9x19mm Glock, which is a good compromise, IMO. If Glock made their G-37 in 45ACP instead of 45GAP, I might be interested. I just don't see the GAP round taking off anytime soon.
I think it's kind of sad when you live in a country where handguns for self defense are so prevalent that criminals will actually break into your house with the sole purpose of stealing them... knowing that any self defense handgun would probably have to be loaded and somewhere in the bedroom.
Anyway, that's my opinion. Feel free to flame the hell out of me, but that's my uninformed Canadian take on guns. I'm not against people having the freedom to own guns, I just don't think that it's a freedom that the average person has any reason to take advantage of.
By the way, sorry to bring up rhetoric master Michael Moore... any pro-gun people want to dicuss your side of the story on "Bowling for Columbine"? I watched a Republican response to "Fahrenheit 9/11", and it was really good just to see the flip side of the story.
Suffered through several paced runs at the track before another 12 hour work shift:
Attempted to maintain a 45 second pace per 200 meters irregardless of the distance. This seemed to work well today and I shouldn't be disabled tomorrow; will attempt 600 meters in 2:15 the next time.
Good luck Ediddy!
What has been left out so far is the consideration of social/cultural factors. Due to mandatory service in the militia, virtually every home in Switzerland has a gun. Besides their government issued assault rifle, the Swiss have access to everything from handguns to howitzers (no joke). Yet their rate of criminal firearm usage is lower than Japan or Sweden -two countries who ban firearms altogether.
"Your rifle is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills." Gunnery Sergeant Hartman -Full Metal Jacket
Matt G, thank God a changed opinion was all that came from your experience! Perhaps a picture of you doing weighted pullups pasted on the back window of your car would serve as added deterent. :-)
Just to head off any flames... please ignore the "when you live in a country where" and just read as "when"... my intention was not to insult America, but it definitely comes off that way.
Just a thought. By banning guns, meaning taking away from citizens. Only allowing government employees to carry guns. Doesn't that make the population easier to control?
Rest Day WOD - heading out for a 5 mile mountain bike trail - 2 mile trail run, repeat cycle 3x. Should be a good 2-3 hours of fun. Adventure racing season starting up again. Woohoo. Be interested how crossfit training hopefully has helped my offroad activities since I haven't done any mountain biking in months.
PS. Dont have a gun, just a hockey stick and some pucks laying around...and I am a good shot. ;)
The best response I've seen it:
No, but thanks for asking:)
IMHO Being asked is the highest compliment one could offer!!
Oh and even though I dont have gun...I don't believe any government should be the only ones to carry weapons. Government should not have that much power, as power is easily corrupted. Government should be afraid of the people and what they want, not the other way around.
Had to play catch up today as i had a busy weekend coaching basketball...
060202 - Back Squat 5-5-5-5-5 as Rx'd:
060204 - Weighted Pullups 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1
Finished with a 500m Row - 1:36
Well no roid questions yet. Just the other one's since I started CF plus comments.
Are you crazy? Yes
Are you nuts? Yes
Are you insane Yes
Doesn't it hurt? Yes
Your nuts. Why, Thank you
Your Crazy. Why, thank you
You must be insane. Thank you
You gotta be joking about this? No, I never joke about my training.
Ryan M, Michael Moore is a sensationalist. I don't feel his work deserves much of a response from anyone. I view him as incredibly biased and presenting something far from the truth with little supporting evidence.
My father is 63, in fairly good shape, likes to bike a lot, but ran into a car the other day he's getting over his injuries, but does't want to bike anymore, is he too old to crossfit?
is there a cf journal on cf and age?
....well...Ill be 58 in April & dont think 63 is too old for anything,,,@ least as far as physical fitness is concerned... get started... start slowly & DONT listen to other persons your age who may have the omnipresent attitude re 'OLD FOLKS" shouldnt work out agressively....physical fitness should be part of your lifestile & in not negated in any way by age.
"2 bullets in the same hole at 25 yards"
Former Governor Ventura
Common sense has yet to run rampant across America. When it does, all of us CFers will only have to talk about the success of our workouts in the comments section, while thinking of other creative ways to make the next WOD more physically demanding. Thank you to ChrisM, MattG, TimW, ratt, Walt, Steve Liberati, Mel Jenkins and any others I might have forgotten by providing a common sense commentary on this gun control issue! Common sense is alive and well and we can find it in alot of the CFers.
Thanks alot. You made my day with that quote, made me laugh really good. Almost made me spew my cola out of my nostril all over my desk.
Tim W. Comment #63
I should have looked at the reply e-mail site before popping off. Good resource that business. I had been to your site before finding CrossFit.
Query: What is a "tweaker lab"? If that is like a meth lab, one was busted in my town in a neighborhood I just passed going to /coming from church. Not just rural here any more.
I am fascinated to learn about the 5.56mm gaining preference over the 9mm. Can you refer me to the test information?
As for concealed carry, I admit to old man's bias, but I still like my S&W Airweight Bodyguard with Glazer safety slugs in .38 cal. I have actually had to touch the weapon to make sure it was still there. But you're right, to each his own and different locations \ situations mandate different weapons \ ammunitions.
I have coined the term sledgehammer thinking for thinking which applies blunt force when a key would be more appropriate. I don't knock down my door every time I come home. I unlock it. That's an appropriate behavioral response to the stimulus of a locked door.
In this case, the thought process of those who would ban guns is: If we take guns away from people there will be less guns used in crimes. This is simplistic in the extreme, because it is unnuanced. It fails to take into detailed account who uses guns for crime, and uses another sledgehammer mistake: violence causes violence. If you break into my home, and I shoot you, then you won't break into any more homes, will you? Violence, in this case, has eliminated violence. This is why we fight wars, and this is why the research I trust says that gun ownership actually decreases rates of violent crime.
At the risk of straying too far, the notion that giving poor people money eliminates poverty is another example. In order to give someone a boost, they have to already be moving.
A little humor never hurts.
I am 51 with heart, weight, and several orthopaedic problems and started CrossFit two weeks ago.
The free downloadable CrossFit Journal says it best in the last section "Scalability and Applicability"...The needs of an Olympic athlete and our grandparents differ by degree not kind...We've used our same routines for elderly individuals with heart disesase and cage fighters one month out from televised bouts. We scale load and intensity; we don't change programs."
My personal experience has been that the program yeilds truly amazing results from the start, AS LONG AS you don't try too much too fast.
Painstorm X today in 1hr 15. Man that sucked.
Rachel did the puppy version in 31 mins.
Strong work Eva and good luck Diddy!
WOO Wooo. Get to go for a 2 hour ride in the snow tonight.Fresh tracks on a MTB.
Though I've yet to be able to read the article, I have a couple ideas that I believe weigh heavy on and are relevant to the discussion. My father taught me to respect a gun as a boy. As he did to respect a knife, and a dog. As well as many other animals and objects. W/out being taught how to respect a weapon, animal, human, etc..., how can you be trusted w/one. Just like a driving liscense. Once respect is taught, then the proper use and deployment of said item is taught.
My point is simple. Just as there are no bad dogs, only bad owners. The saying holds true for guns. Guns don't kill people, people do. Unless of course you're name is Richard Kiel and you had a role in Happy Gilmore.
Oh yeah... "They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!"
The my future brother inlaw made this observation about me and dogs. In light of theearlier one about Pit Bulls.
I'll need a custom Beware of Dog sign that istead says,
Forget the damm dog, Beware of owner.
actually if you look @ that second pic of EVA...it appears as if she is also clearing the entine rack of large multi colored plates in the background as well!
#74 - ChrisM...
Eva - you rock!
Leo (comment #76)--
CrossFit Journal #6 (Feb 2003) has an article on seniors and kids
#26 (Oct 2004) describes the “Girls” scaled for seniors and has a brief feature on a “CrossFit grandma" as well as a general Beginner’s Guide to CF
#33 (May 2005) contains “Working Wounded,” on working with and around injuries
No one’s too old to CrossFit. Take it slow, use no or low loads, focus on movement, moderate intensity, monitor closely.
If you post this question on the message board, rather than here on the WODblog, you may get more discussion and info. You could also try searches of the message board on terms like “older,” “seniors,” and “elderly.”
Good luck to you and your father.
Sir Winston Chruchill once observed about life " Life is cold, brutish, and short."
Itrain to be fit to survive life. I took karate and Jiu Jitsu to learn some fighting skills. I learned how to use pistols and rifles in the reserve.
All this gives me skills to survive in the world. I may not have a gub but you better believe I'm prepared to fight. If I'm going to get killed it will be because I was out of ammo or I had run out of weapons.
Wasn't technically a rest day for me so I searched the archives and did the 75-rep thruster wod.
Little did I know this comment would be my epitaph.
I did a twenty pound dumbell and felt really good about myself. Now I don't know what to think.
Rode my bike 30 miles up to my father's house and helped him move furniture. Not exactly a true rest day.
The article was good. I agree with the old "figures lie and liars figure" saying. Certainly applies to this story.
Awesome job, Eva. And, congrats to Chuck!
I was expecting the worst when I saw the invitation to read and discuss the gun-control article, so I guess you could say I've been pleasantly surprised at the number of intelligent comments.
Consider for a moment the difficulty of meaningful research on gun control. There are tens of thousands of events to be compiled and, I would guess, an unknown number of non-events -- things that didn't occur that the researchers would then have to link to something. There are big variables -- demographics, police presence, community awareness, security preparation, etc.
It seemed obvious to me that the Reason article is intended to debunk rather than enlighten. Look back at the quote from the Harvard researcher that is casually described as "typical" of the group. I'd say that position is so extreme that it can't possibly be typical.
The issue is also hugely emotional. I would guess that most people reach their conclusions on gun control based on their own experiences or those of people close to them. Last week in town, a convenience store owner killed a robber in his store in a shoot-out. Last year, a man forced another driver off the road, pulled the driver out of his car and shot him to death for no apparent reason. To the people affected, incidents such as those won't be overcome by any number of cool facts.
4K today in 25:50.
missed thursday's & saturday's WODs
5x5 ass to grass squats, maxed at 280
10x1 pulls, worked up to 45 by the 7th rep but the dip belt's chain broke. weak, gold's gym, weak. finished off with 3x5 bodyweight pulls
2.25 mi on the treadmil; ran 1.5 and then sprint/walked 200s for 3 laps. Ugh.
along with doin the wods i'm training for a marathon in april, did 8 miles this morning in 51mins. it was beastly windy outside... bring on tomorrow
Would have posted this to Sunday 060129, but for some technical reason, I can not post to that date. My appologies for posting to the wrong day.
Sunday 060129 "The Flithy Fifty"
Did this on Sunday 060205
CFWU x 3 (modified pull-ups & dips 3 x 5 reps
WOD with the following subs:
20 inch box jump (24 not available)
2 x 20 lbs DBs for 20 lb wall ball shots
200 singles for 50 double unders
All other excercises as rx'd
Time = 43:20
Rest day = two hours of snowshoeing + one hour of martial arts.
I stand corrected. Thanks Brian.
Strong work, Eva T. :)
For my 21st birthday this past December I purchased my first handgun. I am all for the freedom to own firearms, but as I was carrying it out to my car after the purchase it struck me as odd that I had to take a test to drive a car yet I got the gun with just a cursory background check.
I don't know where you live Eric, but I believe you're able to own a car regardless of whether you have a license or not...without undergoing any kind of background check. And a car can be just as deadly as a gun.
On the other hand, I'm unaware of any state where you can legally carry a loaded handgun (concealed or otherwise) without taking some type of training class and undergoing an extensive background check...much more stringent than the requirement for obtaining a driver's license.
Ownership and use/utilization are two different things...don't confuse them.
I’d like to hear an elaboration on your being “surprised at the number of intelligent comments” posted. Do you have perspective or knowledge in short supply among the rest of us?
I'd like to hear how debunking doesn't enlighten. If the CDC is spewing left wing anti-gun hysteria and disguising it as science, debunking is in order and it should be enlightening to those who believed the CDC was worthy of our trust and tax money.
Is complexity really the obstacle to understanding the CDC’s convoluted stance on guns, or does the complexity conveniently serve as a smokescreen for the intellectual, scientific, and moral betrayal of Americans by liberals, eating out of the public trough, convinced they know what is best for the rest of us?
Finally, you say the issue is "hugely emotional”, but please understand that the issue is one of rights for most of us here and that only by the good grace and courage of those for whom rights are first order constructs that are neither up for discussion nor buttressed by intellect do we possess any rights at all. These men and women are always emotional about rights. That’s why you’re free, not because of professors or intellectuals.
Ran 4 miles - the weather in NYC was fantastic!
Intelligent comments from me? Silly me I thought that was only for those with a university degree and some letters added to their title.
Went for a 2 hour MTB ride tonight. Even more fun when a brief snow squal for 20 min.
Also did GTG today for pull ups. Total at home and work 200.
Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.
Amen DJ, Coach. Good work yesterday DJ. Ever read John Lott's book, "The Bias Against Guns?" I had an opportunity to hear him speak in Law School. I thought it well worth the read. I think I recognized some of his arguments in the comments posts.
It is "Solitary, Poor, Brutish, Nasty & Short", who are also the law firm of The American Spectator magazine
I don't own a gun, but have used, carried, and fired almost everything in the course of 13+ years in the Marine Corps - from a pistol, to a LAAW, to a TOW (off of a Cobra), to a Hellfire, to an AIM-9. Now I carry a Mark I/Mod 0 pen practicing law. But I think many people (like rfs) miss something essential in the argument - the right to own a gun is protected by the Constitution of the United States. While no right is absolute (free speech, rights of association, even the right to practice religion), the continuing scree from people on the "left" trying to demonize those who own guns or, failing that, trump up pseudo-science to convince the public, susceptible to "statistics" and such garbage, that there should be significantly more restrictions than already exist is troubling, especially for those here who most likely (a) have used guns safely, (b) are responsible enough to be trusted with one, (c) agree with some reasonable restrictions (most would agree the average joe doesn't need a 155mm in their backyard), and (d) HAVE A CONSITITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO OWN ONE!
What bothers me is that it seems to be the same group of people screaming about their constitutional rights being violated (the 14th Amendment, the 4th Amendment, the 5th Amendment) and asking for judicial protection, but they just can't seem to edge their way over to supporting that other civil liberty. I totally support their right to seek judicial recourse (if necessary) for their civil rights - but why can't they show that same dedication to mine? Or at least a little intellectual honesty about it?
Two anecdotes on guns and gun control:
1) I have a Persian client whose family fled Iran with the fall of the Shah. He is fluent in Farsi and keeps abreast of the considerable dissident movement in Iran through Farsi language websites. I asked him if their was any chance of a revolution and regime change. Answer, no, because the population is disarmed. Only the army and police have weapons.
2) Post Katrina, many New Orleans criminals fanned out to neighboring states and towns, including Hattiesburg, MS, where my son in law resides. They were without power there for several weeks so everyone on his block sent the wives and children to other towns while they protected their property by standing armed guard at the entrance to their subdivision. Several car loads of would be looters and burglars drove in, looked around, saw armed men watching them very closely, turned their cars around and left.
I meant that there were more thoughtful comments than I had expected. Other discussion boards I've seen online have degenerated pretty quickly.
Here's what I was trying to say: Gun control is an emotional issue that does not lend itself to easy inquiry. People tend to take a side, often because of their personal experiences with guns, and then start assembling support for their positions. That's exactly what the article says the CDC did. It's also, in my view, what the article itself does.
Or, as Stephen Colbert says: "I'm not a fan of facts. You see, facts can change, but my opinion will never change, no matter what the facts are."
I have no special knowledge or perspective, but the post said "read and discuss," so I accepted the invitation and attempted a responsible post.
God Bless Thomas Jefferson.
BTW, I think he was more of a Locke guy than a Hobbes guy.
I dunno ... Thomas Jefferson was an intellectual who founded a university that to this day remains full of professors. Would the nation have been better off without his contribution?
if you had read/heard as many of the comments and studies as I have, then you might look at Reason's article differently. That comment IS a fairly representative attitude.
"On the other hand, I'm unaware of any state where you can legally carry a loaded handgun (concealed or otherwise) without taking some type of training class and undergoing an extensive background check...much more stringent than the requirement for obtaining a driver's license."
While perhaps fanning the anti-gun flames, Arizona and many states are "open carry" states where one can carry and wear a firearm w/o any sort of training or licensing whatsoever.
And I prefer it that way.
For when the government can set the bar (requirements) for carrying/owning a firearm, it's very easy to continually ratchet those requirements up, making it difficult for those more economically or socially disadvantaged to exercise their rights.
For example, Arizona's CCW permits used to cost $50, just for the permit. And you had to take a 16 hour course, most of which were legal aspects of CCW. These courses cost anywhere from $99 - $200. What working mother can afford that, and the time involved, in order to have some protection against the ex-spouse she has an order of protection from?
Now, CCW permits are $65...because our state police decided to raise the fee. So, fewer folks can perhaps afford it. Luckily, we've lowered the training requirements to 8 hours.
Of course, the 'guild' of instructors created by the CCW permit system argued against that...for their own economic reasons.
Please do not misinterpret what I am writing to infer that I am against training. Far from it. It's the hallmark of a responsible owner. However, when the government starts REQUIRING these things, it's easy to make it so that only the "right" people can own/carry them.
Anyone ever hear of the Poll Tax?
Is there a particular reason that Coach Glassman needs to declare that liberals are betraying America? Is it a goal of Crossfit to marginalize a significant portion of the fitness and wider communities? Are certain political beliefs prerequisite to participation in this community?
I ask these questions as a proud owner of firearms and supporter of the 2nd Ammendment.
Has this one sided discussion changed any minds, provoked new thoughts, or produced interesting discussion? As far as I can see, it has not.
I stand corrected Tim (re: Arizona). Though I think it warrants mentioning that you must carry openly if you are without a permit...in order to carry concealed you must still undergo training and apply for a permit.
www.packing.org is an excellent website which catalogs weapon laws in all 50 states, just in case anyone is interested.
Suberbowl pregame workout at Crossfit Yardley, PA (home of Mike Donnelly)
3 rounds for time:
Bike Ride 3 blocks - single speed (wow, it's cold on a bike in February!)
20 Deadlifts with 135 lbs. in the garage with the new bumper plates.
20 patio bench jumps
20 pushups with feet on a step
20 situps on abmat
with a generous bike riding handicap, I still finished at least 15 situps behind Mike.
"Is there a particular reason that Coach Glassman needs to declare that liberals are betraying America?"
You've broadened my intent some, but now that you've outed me, yes, there is a "particular" reason. I hold our rights and freedoms, including our Constitutional Rights, to be sacrosanct. I think that perverting a public institution charged with safeguarding the Nation from the spread of disease to the task of advancing liberal (socialist) politics an abomination. I find doing so in the name of health science disgusting and deliberately faking that same science approaches evil.
“Is it a goal of Cross[F]it to marginalize a significant portion of the fitness and wider communities?”
I’ve got to think about the question more, it carries some baggage with it, but don’t feel marginalized. Support our basic rights and freedoms instead. I am, however, not running for election nor do I dream at night of all Americans holding hands together while singing and doing Fran.
“Are certain political beliefs prerequisite to participation in this community?”
Hell, no! I’m hoping that the rigors of hard work coupled with an exposure to honest expression, unabashed support of freedom, and a willingness to tangle with the rhetoric and muddled thinking of “a significant portion of the fitness and wider communities” will have a salutary effect on everyone present. (In addition to being exclusionary, political prerequisites to CrossFit participation would slow our hidden “goal" of marginalizing the lefties.)
Then allow me to suggest the following, though I am reluctant to mention any particuar political issues:
For a interesting debate, pick a topic that will makes everyone think, and question their own beliefs. The current topic, given the makeup of the community, was unlikely to change any minds, or produce any debate whatsoever. It was not a question so much as a position paper. A real thought exercise would involve trying to debunk or find weaknesses in the Reason article, even if one agreed with it.
"I think that perverting a public institution charged with safeguarding the Nation from the spread of disease to the task of advancing liberal (socialist) politics an abomination. I find doing so in the name of health science disgusting and deliberately faking that same science approaches evil."
Replace liberal with conservative and you can find at least as many examples of manipulation in the life sciences throughout the current government. The real issue is the misuse of science for political ends (and as a scientist, it makes me steaming mad). No political party has a monopoly on such wankery. To pretend that it is just liberals (or conservatives) is short sighted and dishonest, and shows that ideology itself is behind the question, not a desire for rational argument.
And can we please see a video of Eva's weighted chins?
Or it might be better to just skip the politics and stick with fitness.
Always wanted to get a pistol. Never have because of kids in the house and the outside chance of an accident.
yeah rest day...although lifting small children all day was a definite workout.
It's really hard to sing while doing Fran (well, Annie probably does, but the rest of us, not so much). Holding hands is pretty much out of the question.
It would be an interesting dream though...
rfs, Andrew N.,
I know of a right under vigorous assail by both Republicans and Democrats – free speech.
Political speech, arguably the speech most important to keep free, is under direct, effective, and deliberate attack through “campaign finance reform” with equal effort from the left and the right.
I wonder if that discussion could be broached without the posturing and defensiveness we see on other issues. Can any freedom be defended without raising the ire of those who see society (or their own interests) bettered by its being stifled?
Oh, one last thing, Andrew N., keep checking; Eva T’s a regular in vid’s and pic’s here.
Eva when can i meet you......
Probably that discussion can be had in a civil manner, although obviously any group is going to oppose a policy that it sees as worsening society -- or, more likely, weakening its own influence.
But I think I will try to follow my own advice and just stick with the workouts from now on. It's been only a couple of weeks, but I'm seeing some nice development in my chest and shoulders.
Played 6 games full court hoop today!
Finestkind, GI. I am sure you are well versed on another advantage of the .410/20 ga shotgun v. handgun for home defense: No time to wake up, remove the trigger lock, or chamber a round? A close-quarters butt slap will do the trick. It will reduce even the baddest of intruders into a bleeding pile of unconscious broken facial bones, bloody chicklets, and smashed gonies. And it can do double duty for hunting birds. You can hunt or target shoot with me anytime, Sir.
A true story about steroids: I went to a highschool in the mid-1970s that was a hotbed for wrestling (Robbinsdale Sr. High in Minnesota, Minny Team State Championship runner-up, 1977) that produced the first American wrestler to win a World Championship in Greco-Roman, Michael Houck (1984, 98 kilos, who defeated the two-time Soviet world champ, was a Sullivan Award finalist, and without a doubt the greatest athlete I have ever met or competed against and with, and who probably supplied more urine and blood to the testing agencies than any human alive and who was then and is now totally clean), and a bunch of guys who would later become WWF "wrestlers", including Kurt "Mr. Perfect" Henning (whose dad, Larry "The Axe" Henning" was a pro wrestler on the local Midwest circuit in the pre-WWF days), "Ravishing Rick" Rude (real name Rick Rood), and Tom Zenk of the "Can-Am Connection".
During the summer of our sophmore year, a bunch of the gonna-be WWFers started hanging out at a place called "Younger's Gym" (the owner of which was later busted for selling steroids out of his gym). These guys left school that spring looking just like the rest of us, but came back that fall having gained 50# of ripped muscle, and full of super-agressive "'roid-like" rage.
Now, I don't have any proof that those WWF guys took 'roids, but I do note that both Mr. Perfect and Ravishing Rick are now pushing up daisies (along with several other guys who hung with them in high school), having succumbed in their late 30's/early 40's to the health problems typically associated with 'roid abuse (contemporary news accounts of Ravishing Rick's last days describe a night table covered with pill bottles and syringes). At the time, nobody knew where these guys got their super human strength, and a lot of us clean kids had to fight doubly hard for playing time or to avoid getting jumped at parties by these psychos.
Mike Houck now teaches high school in Minny, and is still a very strong, robust, clean, talented guy, a very excellent and positive role model for the kids he works with. Me, at age 46, thanks to my honest hard work and CrossFit, am stronger than I have ever been, having put on 10 pounds of functional muscle in 5 months the hard honest way. I attract a lot of secret looks from the kids and old farts like me in the gym where I work out.
And Mr. Perfect and Ravishing Rick can't carry my jock now.