on powerlifts, like cleans, and dl's, i noticed on the videos in the exercises section that people have their hands placed so their arms are on the outsides of their legs. for me to feel like i am in a strong position, my legs are wider and arms fall along the inside of my legs. is this wrong, or is it a personal preference? thank you for the help.

Kls,
The standard thinking on generating the most power on a pull (like the start of the clean) is to have the feet under the shoulders. The hands should be in a position comfortable for the catch in the front squat position. If your wrists and shoulders are flexible, that can be just outside your shoulders. If they are less flexible, that should probably be wider. (Note: most O-lift coaches suggest that after the pull and before the catch, you should jump your feet out slightly, from under your hips to under your shoulders--about 2-4" depending on your size.)

The wide stance with hands inside is often called the Sumo stance for the deadlift. Many powerlifters use it because it reduces the distance required for a complete lift. But the physics of the wide stance reduce the upward force of the legs, making it less efficient for the powerful explosions of the O-lifts.

That being said, CrossFit is about getting it done, and if you can clean and snatch more weight with the sumo stance, then get-er-done.

that makes sense. i am about 5' 10" with pretty long limbs, so your answer explains why the sumo stance is more comfortable for me. i will play with the cleans today and see what works best. just wanted to make sure i wasn't committing a major "foul". thank you for your advice!

This raises an interesting question: If you're stronger in a certain position should you keep with this position or should you sacrifice short term gains and learn a new stance that might be more biomechanically sound?

I think the latter seems like a better idea. I used to be able to deadlift more with a rounded back but I'm happy I reduced the poundage and started doing it properly after some advice I got here.

Gentlemen,

I do not completely understand this WOD. I got the "C&J" part, but what about "1-1-1-1-1... reps"?

Is it a one rep max in multiple sets?

Please advise. Thank-you.

John...you've got it. Max. weight for 1 rep, 10 times.

Not to be anal...but how can one do one's max 10 times (even as singles)? Wouldn't it be more like 90% 1RM 10X?

Well I started low and worked up to a max of 150# which for me was 1 X BW& probably a PR as .I havent done many of these B4

95,95,95,
135 (new PR by 10-pounds),
115,115,115,115,120.
Felt good and strong today.
Go Steelers!!

2nd Day on Crossfit.

A bit tight and sore from Christmas Morn WOD. Warmed-up well.

10x1 @ 120#

Paul T.

Rest as necessary between sets. Also, consider the "max." in question to be that max. for that given set. Yes, you might fatigue and have to drop down a bit...or you might find that you weren't quite 100% warm on set 1 and by set 4 you're doing more.

The idea is to give 100% effort on each set. Whatever that effort is.

Paul - one of the keys to crossfit is variance. Thus if your favorite way to do a lift is one you are doing all the time, it is good to vary it. On the other hand, don't sacrifice good form. Thus you wouldn't do a lift with a rounded back. I am less sure of doing a clean and jerk in a sumo stance since we also do sumo deadlifts and other such things in various wods. For me, since I am working to correct my olympic lift form, I would choose not to do it with sumo stance and to get more comfortable in the correct stance.

Paul,
Your question is an excellent one. Proper form is proper for several reasons. It is anatomically correct, safe, and the most powerful. But there are other factors in performance, most notably will (determination) and confidence. The man who won the heavyweight division of the 1999 World Championships had, IMO, horrible form in both the clean and snatch. He was just bigger and stronger than anyone else there.

I am a big fan of developing excellent form first, and then adding weight. I go hoarse in my classes yelling "Heels down, chest up, eyes up, push the hips back, full range of motion," etc. But I can't deny that many world records are held by people who didn't have the best form.

In this case, a sumo stance isn't necessarily "bad" form, though it seems less efficient to me (but rounding your back in the deadlift is because it's both an indication of a weak posterior chain and puts the low back at high risk). Again, if you're in my class, you're working on perfecting form. But with the world-wide web, people may have to work without the help of a coach in the room. Furthermore, it's impossible to know exactly what anyone is doing by their own verbal description, so it would be inappropriate to give overly specific instruction.

Another thought for those of us who use CrossFit to enhance other sport: the feet out wide sumo stance is a less athletic stance than a stance with the feet under the hips and one that probably doesn't transfer as well to other sports.

did 10 sets of C&J at 135#. focused on form. since this movement is new and complicated for me, i thought it prudent to stick with a manageable weight. i confess that on the 2nd set, i nearly smacked myself in the chin with the bar during the press. that woke me up.

Used from 205 up to 255 which is 105% bdwt.
Had to use more of a push press as my jerk form sucks.

Had only previously C&J'ed with KB's, so built up gradually:

45, 65, 85, 95, 105, 110, 115, 117.5, 120, 122.5

Next time through, I suspect I should be able to head up past bodyweight (135#).

Worked up gradually to a PR of 135 (1x10), about 87% of bodyweight.

95, 115, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 175, 180, 185 (PR)

115,135,155(failx2),135,145,145,155,155,165(fail),155,160(fail),155,160(fail),155(fail...uh oh),145

Interestingly enough, I was having problems finishing the jerk. I was cleaning the weight no problem (165 is my current clean PR).

Sick this morning, thought my workout would help. It didn't. :)

Didn't have my weight set with me, so did a bodyweight alternative.

Started with the official crossfit warmup (with handstand stuff), then moved into a 3 round workout:

3x50 squats, 3x50 lazy dog pushups, 3x50 c&j with broomstick

Took me 27:00. Good workout, high rep stuff that applies to the c&j movement.

After warmup did
0: bar
1: 95
2: 115
3: 135
4: 135
5: 155
6: 175 fail
6: 155
7: 165
8: 165
9: 165
10: 165
Hard to rack the weight with sore wrist. Right shoulder was hurting pretty good by the end, felt like it was sore like when you throw a baseball too much.

BW=145

1x75
1x85
1x95
1x105
1x115
1x125 (PR)
1x135 (PR)
1x140 (fail - jerk)
1x140 (fail - jerk)
1x135 (fail - jerk)
1x115
1x120
1x140 (fail - clean)
1x135 (fail - clean)
1x125

Afterwards, did 5x45 to work on form, then some pullups.

Too ill with the flu crud to do anything but rest, medicate and sit in my chair at work (certainly not where I want to be, but there's no choice). :(

Did med. ball /bar warm ups
7 at 75, 5 at 95 with a friend who had never done them

Me and my boys did this WOD today. We warmed up with 10 min of aerobics and then stretching followed by pull-ups, dips, curls, bench and the bear. I did 30 reps of 135 lbs on the benchpress. I am going to bump it up to 145 lbs next workout.

We topped out at: John 170 lb, Joe 115 lb, Chris 75 lb.

practised the c&j w/ broomstick..for 20 reps

then did 2 sets of 5 w/20lb db's each hand
then did 5 sets of 5 w/25lb db's each hand..
form is questionable...

then did 3 sets of 25 hindu squats
then 2 sets of 4 hanging leg raises
still a decent workout......

135
155
175
185
195 (previous PR)
205 (new PR, 91% BW)
215 - miss: caught low and way back on the heels. Had to dump.
4x195

Finished up w/ a few rounds of heavy squats and experimenting with weighted dips

did cf warm up and a "density" set for pullups, 2/min for 12 min. then c&j
65,75,85,85,90,95,100,90,90,90
agree with the person who said their jerk is a bit of a push press
on form--i had my hands about shoulder witdth or slightly wider and my feet just outside that. at the bottom of the move, there was no real space b/w my legs and arms and my arms were on the inside. the dl's we did the other day were definitely wideleg, sumo style.
cooldown with some L holds, handstand and front lever practice.
glad to hear everyone's perspective on the technique issue. food for thought!

I really need some coaching if I'm gonna progress in this lift. I can feel that my technique is bad but I don't know the required steps to correct it. I'm pretty distracted too, keep thinking about what it would be like to be killed by a tidal wave. Yuck. No new PR's today. BTW=150. Old PR=160. Mostly power cleans with a split jerk. I can't squat clean for crap.

110,130,150,160failed/jerk,160,165failed/clean,
150,150,150,150,155form fell apart but I got it up.

-D.

got up to 135 but that's where form was lost. 115 was very pretty however.

04.10.06 was the last time that we did this. FYI.

-D.

Third WOD and pretty happy about my workout.

Bodyweight = 170
Standard CF warm-up...
15x0
1x115
1x125
1x135
1x140
1x140
1x145 (fail)
1x145
1x150 (fail)
1x150 (fail)
1x145
1x145 (fail)

Called it quits here because left shoulder was feeling a bit weak. Hurt it boxing 18 months ago and better play it safe.

I am still fired up after this workout. I thought my shoulders would be smoked from yesterday's HSPU, but they weren't. I've never actually done C&J's before but have done C&P's and I feel they were a huge part of why I was able to perform as well as I did.

body weight = 199#
max. C&J today = 205#

Only had access to a pre-racked 65# short barbell. Not ideal, but did lots of C&J reps, then worked in some OHS, DL's, push press. Finished with a fast mile run on the treadmill.

New Year's resolution is to get a barbell and weights! Sick of playing these silly gym games.

135
185
185
205
215 FAIL (jerk)
215 " (")
215 " (")
215 " (")
205 " (")
205 " (")

Doing better at jumping and landing, but my shrug still needs a lot of work.

(1 x 125) x 2
(1 x 140) x 3
(1 x 150) x 3
1 x 160
1 x 165 (bodyweight)

Well, it happened...I biffed it this morning in the parking lot and sprained my right wrist. Clean and Jerk was painful, but after no gym for 3 days I wasn't going to skip it. Movement felt good and strong, but wrist pain discouraged any more weight. I'll get 'em next time.

Did weights of:

50, 70, 80, 85, 87.5, 90 a bunch of times

135, 145, 155, 155, 160, 160, 165, 165, 170, 175[PR]

I ECLIPSED my old PR (150). Thank you, Crossfit!

45,65,85,95,100,105,115,120.

125 (fail-jerk)
125 (fail-clean). 2 minute rest. A few reps with the broomstick and then,

125. definitely a power clean, but I'm stoked. Bw=135. thanks crossfit for the chance to exceed my own expectations!
-Brandt

BW=181
CJ 185,185,185,185,190,190,195,195,200,200
definitely power cleans
finished with some 4 sets of L-Sits.

145
145
185
185
195
195
205 (fail)
205 (fail)
195 (fail jerk)
185

I've been doing crossfit for about 2 months. First time going heavy with C&J. Worked on form only prior. I just want to say thanks for making my workouts interesting again. I love what you guys are doing. Thanks.

Tim

1 x 135
1 x 155
1 x 175
1 x 195
1 x 205
1 x 185
1 x 185
1 x 185
1 x 185
1 x 185
three max sets of pushups
three max sets of ring dips

Doubled up today.

7:38 on the HSPU and Jumps.

115x1
135x1
145x1
145x1
155x1
155x1
155x1
155x1
155x1
155x1

155 was the max any more would have caused improper form.

95 x9, 115 x1

BW=212
135-140-150-155-160-165-170-155-155-155

12/26 Have never C&J before, so knee pain (all that jumping??) and lack of tech knowledge kept me away for now.

Did 100 sit ups and 100 back extensions instead. keep moving.

Worked form with 95, then did 5 at 135.

Worked on form with a broomstick afer yoga practice. I think I need some coaching on this one. Any good Oly lift coaches in Manhattan (NYC)?

1x95
1x95
1x115
1x125
1x125
1x135
1x135
1x145
1x145
1x155

I misprinted the above...
1x95
1x95
1x115
1x135
1x135
1x155
1x155
1x155
1x155
1x165

BW = 170#
clean & jerk:
165
185
185
170
195
155
200
185
195
155
new PR by 10# at 200#.
i'm guessing there's a specific rationale for following the jump/HSPU workout with this one...
some kind of neurological conditioning for the movement?

140 lbs,new PR for me by 5 lbs. My son got 45. This is the first time he did C&J. We worked with the broomstick first. I am pretty sore today. You wouldn't think that a 10 rep workout would make you sore, would you? ha ha!!

65
85
95
115
125
135
145
145
155
155

95
115
135
145
155
165
165

115
115
115
125
125
125
135
135
135
135

in real good form

BW = 215

Warmup with two sets of: OH squats @ 20, pullups @ 7, pushups @ 15, situps @ 20

1- 135
1- 145
1- 165
1- 175
1- 185
1- 185 (fail on jerk)
1- 185 (fail on clean)
1- 175
1- 180
1- 185

warmdown with agility work (box jumps) and 4 intervals of bottom-up squats tabata style.

It's good to be back from vacation!

Never did C&J before today so I decided to work on form with non-max weight, thus hopefully preventing disasters going forward.

Relatively new crossfitter, btw. Thank Norma (above) for getting me involved in this cult.

(reps - weight)
15 - 45
5 - 65
5 - 75
5 - 85
5 - 85
5 - 85
3 - 90
3 - 95
3 - 100
3 - 100
2 - 100

started with the crossfit warm-up.

1-95
1-135
1-155
1-155
1-165
1-175
1-180
1-185
1-195 miss was able to clean it but could not get it over my head

1 x 135
1 x 137
1 x 140
1 x 142
1 x 145
1 x 147
1 x 150
1 x 152
1 x 155
1 x 157

1 x 155
1 x 175
1 x 205
1 x 225
1 x 225
1 x 230
1 x 230
1 x 235
1 x 240
1 x 245 (Tried 255 but dumped it at the bottom)

135x1x10
minute rest in between ea rep

Did this yesterday instead of rest (that was Sunday).

1x95
9x105

Strangely 105 is a new PR at 78% of BW and I was able to pull off 9 single sets in a row but couldn't get a single 115# rep off despite three attempts. Talk about hitting a wall.

1x37kg
1x37
1x37
1x42
1x47
1x52
1x57
1x62
1x64.5 new PR and BW
1x67kg failed jerk

All fairly solid squat cleans this time until the last 2 attempts. Form fell apart, because I didn't trust myself to pull under the bar == power clean.

Most of the jerks felt heavy today; I think because I've been working on muscle-ups and partial crosses for the last couple of days.

95-100-105-110-115-125-130-135 PR!-140 (successful clean, failed jerk, new PR for front squat!)-130.

Completed WOD 041229 afterward.

Clean and Jerk (Power Clean and Push Jerk):

1*130
1*135
1*140
1*145 –PR!
1*150—PR!
1*150 (fail)
1*150
1*145
1*140
1*140

c&j
got 1 at 85 couldn't get 90
the jerk is difficult!

ha! i didn't check last time-but i blew it away wooh hoo! i got 15 kgs more! 15! bw 88 nearly bw!

Posted by Tim 'crack' H at October 8, 2004 01:42 AM

60x3
70x2x2
80 fail fail fail fail
70x1
80 fail fail

next time!

1 x 95
1 x 105
1 x 115
1 x 125
1 x 135
1 x 145
1 x 155
1 x 165
1 x 175
1 x 135 (worked on form)